>Subject: Where Did it All Start?
Hi Tim,
>When did all this talk about a Roswell alien autopsy film start,
>anyway? I'm curious about the chronology. is anybody paying more
>attention to it than I am?
I may be able to shed some light on this.
> Looking back in net time,I'm wondering about sources for all the
> strange information that has come out thusfar about the alleged
> film. The pieces are interesting.
Yes, they are. Bill Chalker has just clarified some of the recent background and I may be able to add to this and confirm the film's chronology.
It appears that the film was at least known about, and may have been acquired, as long ago as June 1993. I understand that Ray Santilli disclosed the existence of the film to certain people at that time.
This seems to be confirmed by Philip Mantle's comments to Bill:
"Santilli told Mantle the same story he had told him some 18 months or more earlier. Santilli claimed he had gone to the States to research a video on Elvis Presley and he sought out an old time camera man, who had a reputation for archival collections on the King. He bought some Elvis footage off him. At that time the fellow showed Santilli some film footage allegedly of Roswell."
* Rumor that the real film was purchased by Steven Spielberg as
part of a 50th Anniversary movie on Roswell. Denied.
A U.K. "tabloid" ran a two page centre feature almost a year ago, headed, "Aliens V Dinosaurs". This suggested that Steven Spielberg's next project was to be a film based on the Roswell incident. The article was briefly mentioned on an episode of "Sightings", which I have on tape, and I note the accompanying narrative states that "UFO researchers are even claiming that he's (Spielberg) come into possession of archive film, taken at the time."
Whether this is an allusion to the same archive film I'm not sure, but it could well be.
* The ex-rock drummer from (?) who claimed to have personally
seen a video of the real autopsy film. Why him? Who does
he know?
This is Reg Presley, formally of "The Troggs" and something of a UFO "enthusiast". He is friendly with certain BUFORA members and "crop circle" enthusiasts. It seems his agent has been working hard of late and Reg has been a "celebrity" on a couple of TV programs recently. Jonathan Martin posted a summary of Reg's announcement concerning the film:
"On Friday 13 January 1995 at approx 11.45 hrs GMT, the BBC TV morning magazine programme 'Good Morning with Anne & Nick' carried the following:
Reg Presley (formerly of the 60's rock band 'The Troggs' (I think)) was interviewed re: crop circles. During the interview he disclosed that an associate of his was searching for missing film of Elvis Presley, and visited a man in his 70s who gave him access to 15 reels of amateur film which allegedly show:
a) the wreckage
b) the alien autopsies"
The "associate" would appear to be Ray Santilli.
* Confusion over the format of the alleged real film (8mm?
16mm? A videotape transfer of a 16mm film?)
According to Ray Santilli, the film was shot on 16mm film stock. In order to protect the original, part of the film was transferred to video and this is the film which has been shown to limited audiences.
* The film is shown to the Archbishop of Canterbury? When? By whom?
This would appear to be an unfounded rumour.
* The brief CCN mention.
* The Associated Press story, apparently initiated by BUFORA.
I believe that a rather prominent member of BUFORA, discussed the film with an acquaintance of his who currently works with a local newspaper and that subsequent to this discussion an article concerning the film appeared in that local paper. Whilst the original TV disclosure was largely ignored by the media, this article surprisingly attracted considerable attention.
It was certainly a surprise to BUFORA.
I note Bill refers to Philip Mantle's following observation:
"Philip remarked to me that it could easily be a model on the bed or bench. The particular sequence he saw could easily be replicated, with Mantle saying to me, "I could do it in our own garden, if I wanted to.""
I do know of someone who frequents the same circles as Mr Mantle (a rather prominent member of BUFORA), Colin Andrews and Reg Presley, and who believes she is an "abductee". She is certainly something of a well known "believer" and I understand from a reliable source that on viewing the film segment, her opinion was "rubbish".
Taking both reviews as a consensus, we should perhaps exercise extreme caution until the authenticity of this film has been verified beyond dispute and we have seen the entire contents ourselves.
Although Santilli disclosed the existence of the film some 2 years ago, it seems unclear when he actually purchased it, however, it does seem that he has had the film in his possession for some considerable time. If it is now almost 2 years since the purchase, one would expect that someone like Mr. Santilli, whose sole interest in the film would seem to be the potential financial remuneration, would not spend 100,000 pounds on such a potential money spinner without seeking a return on his investment.
However, according to Bill's reported conversation with Philip Mantle,
"Philip like a number of other researchers has known about the footage story for almost 2 years. A number of researchers were approached then to see if they were prepared to pay for the footage. None had the resources nor the inclination sight unseen...Mantle was unsuccessful in sighting the footage. Other researchers faced similar unsuccessful gauntlets."
This would indicate that Santilli was not keen to disclose the film's
contents at that time, which makes little sense if he was marketing it.
Even more puzzling is why apparently only one of 14 alleged film segments has been transferred to video for viewing. As far as I am aware, the content of the remaining 13 segments has not been shown publicly.
Again, this suggests that for some reason Santilli is not keen to have the contents of these segments examined.
Bill mentions that Philip Mantle describes Santilli as ""a bit of a
character" (something of the "Arthur Daley" from "Minder" in him)". For those who have never heard of Mr Daley, he is a fictional TV character who could perhaps best be described as a "likeable rogue".
All of which suggests that there are some very dubious claims being made concerning the authenticity and content of this alleged archive "Roswell" film.
Cheers,
James.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: TEXJE@BONALY.HW.AC.UK * JAMES.EASTON@STAIRWAY.CO.UK
---------------------------------------------------------------
Page Index
** posted to this news group last Tues 17th by Colin May ***
----- start-----
Newsgroups: alt.paranet.ufo
Subject: Roswell - The afternoon Shift
Message-ID: <797630637SNZ@CJ4386.DEMON.CO.UK>
From: colin@cj4386.demon.co.uk (colin may)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 1995 20:03:57 +0000
Reply-To: colin@cj4386.demon.co.uk
Concerning an item on "The Afternoon Shift", a BBC Radio 4 programme
broadcast at 3.00 pm BST on 11 April 1995:
There was a phone interview with an eighty year old woman named "Proctor" about some wreckage shown to her by Matt Brazel.
A second phone interview with Walter Hort about the news release he made. (?should be Haut [nm])
The third interview was with Ray Antilles who is the present "owner" of the (? Santilli [nm]) film.
According to Mr Antilles (Santilli):-
The film is the original stock purchased from the camera man who shot it.
The film stock has been tested and the opinion is that it is authentic.
Concerning the authenticity of the content he declined to make any judgement.
The film is currently being examined by a Home Office Pathologist.
The film is to have a private airing on 28 April 1995 for "interested
parties". He did not say where.
"The Afternoon Shift" has an e-mail address:
afternoon.shift@bbc.co.uk
--------end-------
Regard Neil..
PS For Non UK readers:
The Afternoon Shift runs 3.00-4.00pm BST weekdays
Radio 4 TX on FM *AND* Long Wave 198khz/1515meters, the long wave transmitter at Droitwitch puts out a large number of Kilowatts, ? with a big AE and a following wind you might just get it on the East coast.. Most of Europe can, good DXing
Neil Morris.
Virtual Bumper Stickers Inc
Dept of Physics.
University of Manchester.
Schuster Labs.
Computer Programmers DO IT with BITS of BYTES
Brunswick St.
Manchester.
UK.
G8KOQ E-mail: neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk or
neil@es1.ph.man.ac.uk [ftp+gopher site]
Page Index
From: http://www.well.com/www/nhne .
A Film Of The Roswell, New Mexico Crash?
A very interesting, albeit highly suspicious, story has emerged
concerning the famous Roswell, New Mexico UFO incident. According to a story that appeared in the February, 1995, issue of THE CIRCLE HUNTER MAGAZINE, a former U.S. military cameraman, now 82, is claiming to have a copy of a film shot at the scene of the alleged alien crash.
Here are a few of the more tantalizing aspects of the story:
The film is said to have been shot by US government officials in
the desert of New Mexico, after the alleged Roswell flying saucer
crash-landed in 1947.
According to the THE CIRCLE HUNTER article, the American
cameraman passed the top-secret film to a British TV
documentary film maker named Ray Santilli. Santilli was in
America making a documentary about Elvis Presley when he
received the film.
The film is reportedly a 16mm black and white silent film, shot
on 14 reels that is 91 minutes long. It was copied by the former
military cameraman who believed the cover-up was wrong and
that the evidence should be publicly examined.
The film allegedly shows scientists examining a creature laid on
a slab inside a tent at the crash site, guarded by military
police.
The scientists are supposedly carrying out an autopsy on the alien
body and examining tissue samples.
The film is reported to show part of the spaceship
wreckage--allegedly made from a material that could not be be
burned, dented or cut.
Philip Mantle of the British UFO Research Association claims:
"We have already had the film checked out by Kodak who
confirms it is 50 years old, and we now plan to have it examined
by film experts at the [Sheffield Hallamu] university."
Mantle, who is the Director of Investigations for the UFO association,
claims to have seen one seven-minute reel:
"The film is clear and very intriguing. Of course, any film or picture can be faked, but if this is a hoax, a lot of people were involved because they can be clearly seen on screen, and by now we might have expected that one of them would have let the cat out of the bag."
A number of recognizable figures can be made out in the film.
One of these figures is reported to be President Harry Truman,
who was President during the Roswell incident.
Mantle intends to show the 91 minute long film at an
international audience of UFO spotters at a two-day conference at
Sheffield Hallam University, in Britain. The UFO conference
where it will be screened in August is likely to attract more than
500 enthusiasts from as far afield as Russia and South Africa.
Afterwards, Santilli, who believes the film is authentic, is
scheduled to speak.
THE CIRCLE HUNTER article also claims that the alleged film
will form the basis of a sensational BBC TV documentary due to
be screened in August, 1995.
--David Sunfellow
Page Index
From: mred@perth.DIALix.oz.au (Michael Richley Redshaw)
Subject: Roswell Film Press Article
Date: 23 Apr 1995 16:46:04 +0800
Keywords: alien UFO
Hi Folks,
I clipped the following from the Apr 23/95 issue of
the Sunday Times (Perth, West Australia) . Its the first mention
of the film that I have seen in the mainstream press over here!
Titled_UFO_ALERT__________________________
By Marcus Casey.(New York)
In JUNE 1947 a mysterious object disintegrated above New
Mexico and its Pieces scattered across the spectacular desert near
the town of Roswell.
They never really came to rest. Instead they formed the most
the most unsettling and disturbing event - "The Roswell Incident"
- in the lives of dozens of people convinced the object was a craft
piloted by aliens.
They became true believers of extraterrestrial life.
For others the event had meant a lifetime proclaiming the
UFO belief a case of phoney baloney. It was actually a military
surveillance balloon which prematurely fell to earth.
That doesn't ring true to people like Major Jesse Marcel, an
air force officer at the scene, rancher Bill Brazel whose land it fell
on, or Loretta Proctor who saw the scene before the military
cleaned it up, and plenty of others since.
To them, the military should be called Baloney Incorporated,
a body which has spent 48 years denying the world a truth it first
heralded in a press release which cooked the globes newswires in
minutes.
That happened after Lieutenant Walter Haut, of the USAF
base at Roswell, was ordered to write the release and distribute
it, by foot, to local radio stations and newspapers.
"The many rumors regarding the flying disk became a reality
yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th Bomber
Group of the Eighth Air Force, Roswell Airfield, was fortunate
enough to gain possession of a disk through the cooperation of
one of the local ranchers and the sheriff's office of Chaves
County," the statement began.
Three hours later a correction was issued from a deluged
Regional Headquarters. The flying disk was a weather balloon, a
more senior air force commander said.
The issue was debated and went to rest until it flared again
in 1978 when retired Major Marcel announced a true UFO
contact incident was covered up by the military which wanted to
exploit the technology it had found.
Now the Roswell Incident and the alleged cover up are back
in the mainstream news after English rock promoter Ray Santilly
announced he'd purchased secret 16mm film of the craft and its
dead alien pilots.
The film will be aired for the first time at the Sheffield
Hallam University in August and possibly on the BBC shortly
after. Not only has the upcoming event set off Roswell
speculation again but its divided the true believers.
Don Berliner, who wrote the book "Crash at Corona" -
Corona was the nearest village to the crash site - has tried all year
to view the film and offer his expertise has not heard back from
Santilly or his supporters.
"If you had what amounts to the most important piece of film
footage in human history in your possession, one which proves
the existence of alien life, why would you wait so long to show
it?" asked Santilly, a director of the Fund For UFO Research in
Washington.
"A lot of us here in the US want to be involved to offer our
expertise in examining the footage. I know I could tell at a glance
if the footage of the craft is correct, just by the surrounding
terrain."
But Mr Santilly and the BBC have been very evasive about
this. Why?
Philip Mantle, of the British UFO Research Association, has
seen it and is convinced the black and whit film, about 2 hours
worth in 14 canisters, is authentic.
He claims it shows the disk and an autopsy of a slender alien
lit by lamplight in a tent set up in the desert.
The alien has a slender head with no nose of ears, but it does
have large oval eyes. Much of it is obscured.
He told British reporters recently:
"We had heard stories that
a photographer was flown into the area after the crash and was
flown out again soon after.
"Now it seems he was a movie camera-man. He is alive and
we know his name and he is willing, in due course, to testify.
"He took his own copy of the film and he wants to sell it now
because he is living in poverty and wants to contribute to his
grand-daughters wedding."
An unnamed 80-year-old photographer? Secret film never
heard of before in the most high profile UFO incident on record?
Doubting true believers with expert knowledge denied access?
It sounds as fishy as little green men travelling to earth from afar. But people who were there at the time saw materials they'd never seen before. Author Berliner says they hope the film will
vindicate a belief so long ridiculed.
"I have talked many times to Major Marcel, one of the officers despatched to Brazel's ranch to collect samples of the
debris from the disks crash site," Berliner says.
"To this day, he has seen nothing like it. It was like
household foil, but much lighter and very very much stronger."
He could not cut it, tear it, burn it or puncture it. When he
crumpled it into a ball, it straightened itself out without any
wrinkles remaining. Back at the air base he hit it with a sledge
hammer and nothing happened.
"He also collected little " I " beams just under an
inch(2.5cm) in width and 18 inches(45cm) in length. Across the
interface were raised symbols in odd pink and purples. They were
geometric, probably alien, geometric shapes."
Loretta Proctor is now 80 and still lives on her remote cattle
ranch outside Roswell, New Mexico. She and husband Floyd
visited their nieghbor, Bill Brazel,just after he found the debris
scattered over 20ha of his ranch.
"I know theres something out there. They're still pulling the wool over our eyes - its just a cover up. As far as I am concerned, it was a UFO. I don't think it was anything they had here on earth."
Today Roswell is to UFO experts and believers what Lords
is to the cricket fan. A museum was set up documenting the
mystery. Major Marcel and the press release writer, Walter Haut
work there.
They know what officially happened. After clearing two
carloads of samples from the crash, the area was saturated with
soldiers who picked the area bare of the debris.
It was taken into military custody, locked and stored -
rumoured to be at high-tech military labs in Dayton, Ohio - and
all files relating to it are stamped Top Secret and Classified.
All of which added intrigue to a simple mystery they
believed involved aliens. From 1978 the incident kept getting
bigger, until an official inquiry was launched last year.
Congressman Steven Schiff initiated the inquiry by the
Govt's Independent General Accounting Office, and the air force
released a subsequent report which only added spice.
While the GAO's overall report wont be released until July,
the air force said it was finally coming clean:It was a spy project
on the Soviet Union:
"It said the air force research did not locate or develop any information that the Roswell Incident was a UFO event. The
most likely source of the wreckage was from Project Mogul
balloon trains."
These were early versions of spy satellites which carried
instruments designed to float high above the USSR and record
the early explosions in the soviet nuclear bomb program. The foil
was made in a New York toy factory and was part of an anti-
radar shield, the report said. The " I " beams were plain old
pieces of metal with codes on them.
But the reports language was full of "most likely,"
"probably" and "possibly," which is petrol to a true believer's fire
and their belief something else, something unworldly, was
involved.
The film planned for August gives them more hope. They've
waited for 47 years, so they can wait for months more. They've
been called loonies for a long time, but they're ordinary folk with
a firm belief. And knowledge of what makes the world go round.
"There was a film unit at the base and one of them could have taken the film and kept it," Walter Haut said last week.
"What I cant understand is why they haven't cashed in before
now. I have always believed an alien craft crashed here but I also
believe in big green dollars. Everyone has their price."
(END)______________________________________________
-------------------------------------
.Mike Redshaw ,-_|\ |
.mred@perth.DIALix.oz.au / \ |
. *_,-._/ |
.Perth West Australia v |
--------------------------------------
Page Index
From: mmiczewski@aol.com (MMiczewski)
Subject: Re: Roswell Film Flap
Date: 24 Apr 1995 00:17:34 -0400
A 7 Minute segment is being viewed by NBC April 28.
From: klaatu51@ix.netcom.com (James Resinger)
Subject: Re: Roswell Film Flap
Date: 23 Apr 1995 22:33:12 GMT
In <1995APR23.133141.175@CADENZA.DEMON.CO.UK>
steven@cadenza.demon.co.uk ("Steven M. Hill") writes:
>
>Peter John Fitzgerald Bowe (Peter@sweets.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>: In article <3MM2PT$OTD@NEWSBF02.NEWS.AOL.COM>
>: thibodeau@aol.com "Thibodeau" writes:
>
>: > Wait a couple of months, you'll see some of the footage on an
>: > American television program, way before the "supposed" UFO
>: >conference in the UK.
>: >
>: Personally I don`t care where I see it, I would still like to see
>: it, I would also like to see the KODAK reports if they ever do get
>: their hands on the film that is.
>
>On radio 4 9am news a few weeks back, they had a report about the
>film. They mentioned that the film *could* provide strong proof of
>UFO visitation and that the film was to be premiered at the BUFORA
>summer conference. Lastly, the report also mentioned a BBC
>documentary to be shown shortly after the conference.
>
>
>Hang tight!
>
>Steve Hill
>--
>_____________________________________________________________________
>Steven M. Hill Mostly Aardvark Media Lab
> steven@cadenza.demon.co.uk
>
What I find most puzzling about this whole Roswell film business is
that it constitutes exactly the type of evidence that should FIRST have come to light, and not suddenly pop up nearly 50 years later. I
anxiously await the showing of the film, but I'd be less than honest if I didn't admit to some skepticism about the whole thing.
Jim R.
04/23/95, 6:33 pm
Page Index
From: pvigay@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Paul Vigay")
Subject: Re: SOMEONE HAS SEEN THE FILM !!!!
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 1995 20:35:17 GMT
To quote neil@adm1.ph.man.ac.uk:-
>Normal type frame rates were either 18 or 24 fps (25 US), I thought
> all the view ings so far were of video copies of the film(s), now
>that's another can of worms. Parts
According to my friend who has seen the film, it was certainly slower
(and more jerky) than normal film rates. It may have been 5-8 frames a
second, but was more like a data logging type event - like you may
record petals on a flower opening over a period of time, using a slow
frame rate.
However, there are other discrepencies in the film which may me believe that it is not genuine. I will post more information soon.
_
|_|
|aul (using !NetReader v0.09)
.-----------------------------------------------------------.
| Director of Operations |
| The Independent Research Centre for Unexplained Phenomena |
| Equinox BBS: 01705 871531 (24 hr) |
| (for the latest crop circle and UFO research) |
'-----------------------------------------------------------'
Page Index
From: joachim.koch@wad.fido.de (Joachim Koch)
Date: 24 Apr 95 21:00:00
Subject: URGENT! NEWS ABOUT ROSWELL
From: koch@wad.fido.de
Subject: The Roswell Incident 1947
## Nachricht vom 24.04.95 weitergeleitet
## Ursprung : /FIDO/UFO
## Ersteller: Joachim Koch@2:2410/704.20
## Empfaenger: ALL
**********************************************************************
*Announcement*
*of the*
*International Roswell Initiative*
**********************************************************************
It came to our knowledge that Mr. Santilli, the present owner of the
mysterious Roswell film footage, intended to hold an international
press conference on April, 28th.
Further investigations showed that the date should be correct but it
should be no press conference but an invitation-only meeting of
potential buyers of the (copies of the) footage. It is said that
during this meeting parts or the whole rest of the so far unknown
missing material should be presented.
One of our well known UFO researchers in Great Britain has got an
invitation, too. As soon as the meeting transpires he will be phoned
by another well known British UFO researcher to hear what happened.
Then The International Roswell Initiative will contact this researcher
and we hope to provide you with new details here around April 29th or
30st. So watch out for mails with the subject: "URGENT! NEWS ABOUT
ROSWELL".
We would like to remind you *to stay extremely cautious* with regards
to this footage. As long as nothing is proven to be genuine it might
be another attempt by "someone" to establish another "MJ12-like hoax".
After the Air Force Report of Fall 1994 was clearly identified as
another cover-up or to continue the old one "someone" might have
looked for another strategy. Maybe "someone" has thought what went
well one time may run the second time as well.
But this time we have, among many other individual or combined
efforts, The International Roswell Initiative and the Roswell
Declaration. This document is signed by many thousands of people from
all over ther world so far and day by day they become more. This time
people are aware of the danger of a major hoax and this is because it
will fail.
"Someone Majestic" has become nervous, perhaps for the first time
ever.
For those who have missed parts of the material about the Roswell
Declaration we shall post it here again on this bulletin board on
April 30st.
Joachim Koch Berlin, 14.4.95 Hans-Juergen Kyborg
______________________________________________________________________
The *International Roswell Initiative* was founded by *Kent Jeffrey*
(USA), *Joachim Koch* and *Hans-Juergen Kyborg* (both Berlin,
Germany) in 1994. It is officially greatly supported (among many
others) by MUFON, CUFOS and FUFOR and became one of the most
successful international grassroots efforts in Ufology. The central
document is the "Roswell Declaration" which was published together
with additional material in this bulletin board. If you have missed
parts of the material or the Declaration itself please contact Joachim
Koch via email. You my also look into the World Wide Web for:
http://erau.db.erau.edu/~elston/petition.html and sign the
declaration electronically.
Joachim Koch
IN: koch@wad.fido.de
Page Index
My friend Pat Welsh is a member of ORTK, an organization requesting that the Government share its information related to UFOs. It appears that they recently started an Internet on-line newsletter and Pat has been forwarding me copies. There is some information related to the film and she sent me their first three issues. In this section I am reproducing parts of the bulletins, but also you view the complete contents of the bulletins if you wish (click here).
ORTK FREE MEMBERSHIP BULLETIN #1
(Chat with Kevin Randle) By Ed Komarek
INSIDERS CORNER:
I called Kevin Randle (one of the authors of The Truth About The UFO Crash At Roswell) last Saturday to see if he had any new information on the alleged 1947 Roswell film. All he said he had was what has come over the internet and been passed on to him. He is still quite skeptical about the
alleged film. He also said rumors that he was going over to England for a showing before the end of April were not true. He said he would be glad to go if somebody paid his way. Also, Kevin said his new book on other UFO
Crashes was coming out this week in paperback in a bookstores around the
country.
[....]
I also called up my good friend ufological gadfly Jim Moesley to check in. I figured Jim would be in hog heaven with all the controversy in the UFO field of late. Pickings have been so poor untill lately tha Jim had
been desperately calling me for tips.............
Jim says that a source of his here in the states which he would not name has a video copy of at least part of the Roswell film. Jim says his source told him that it indeed shows Truman getting out of limousine in the desert. Of course Jim figures this has to be a hoax after all how would a limousine get out into the desert. I think it could easly be towed through the rough spots if there were any. I told Jim he would have to do better than that. For the uninitiated Jim Moesley is a oldtimer in the UFO field
that was once the number one UFO lecturer but was deposed by Stanton Friedman..... Today Jim has given up on figuring out the truth and just digs the UFO social scene. His favorite sport is shooting down the egos of UFOlogists and Debunkers. If you take your self too seriously and
have litte humor then you will eventualy feel Jims sting.
* * * * * * * * * * *
ORTK BULLETIN #2
(A conversation with Bob Dean.)
By Ed Komarek, co-founder ORTK
INSIDERS CORNER:
I thought I would check in by phone with Ret. Sergeant Major Bob Dean for this weeks Insider Corner. Bob and his wife Ceclia are a couple of the finest folks in the UFO field. Bob Dean has impeccable credentials haveing
worked for SHAPE, NATO in Europe where he claims to have held a cosmic top secret clearance. There he claims to have have access to and studied a specal NATO report that showed photos of extraterrestrial spacecraft and alien bodies. He says this report changed his life. If you are new to the
UFO field read the article on him in the April 1994 issue of Omni Magazine or go to the title Inside The Military UFO Underground at this internet address: http://erau.db.erau.edu/~elston/government.html.
.... He did talk to Colin Andrews, a well known circle researcher in Europe about the Roswell archival film footage. Colin did say that the film was tested by Kodak and was 1945-48 vintage film. Beyond that everybody is waiting to see how things fall out. Bob was also told that the film would be shown in the States soon. I assume that would be a video of the film.
* * * * * * * * * * *
Anybody wishing to become a ORTK free member or just get on the mailing list email me Ed Komarek at: ekomarek@mail.public.lib.ga.us
Date: Sat, 06 May 95 09:33:38 EST
From: Glenda Stocks
Subject: *** ROSWELL FILM TRUTH SO FAR *** (fwd)
----Forwarded----
From: huntja@vax.sbu.ac.uk
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: *** ROSWELL FILM TRUTH SO FAR ***
Date: 4 May 95 15:34:06 GMT
Organization: South Bank University
This posting is to clarify the situation regarding the alleged
"Film of Roswell". I spoke to Phillip Mantle, Director of Investigations for BUFORA last night (3/5/95) and he clarified the situation as follows:
A film which is allegedly that of the Roswell crash and subsequent alien autopsy does exist althugh BUFORA cannot comment on the validity of the film at the moment. The film has been known about for 2 years but due to certain personal reasons of the people involved, the full detals have not been released in the past. As part of a review of the Roswell movie which was released on video recently in the U.K. (not to be confused with the alleged film of the crash) Phillip Mantle contacted Mr Santilli, the current holder of the alleged film, to ask
46%in the U.K. (not to be confused with the alleged film of the crash) Phillip Mantle contacted Mr Santilli, the current holder of the alleged film, to ask him if he still had the film. He confirmed that he still had the film and this information together with the review of the Roswell movie was placed in an article for the Sheffield Star newspaper. However this was noted by a press agency which then contacted BUFORA. Since then the news of the film has spread across the world. The film is due to be screened this Friday (5/5/95) in London at a private screening. Only invited guests will be allowed to attend. These guests inlude both international UFO research personnel and the international media. The Planned screening was due to be held in April but due to demand was moved to a new venue. People due to see the film include Reg Presley, Ken Jeffery and Roberto Pinnotti (sorry for any misspelling of the names!). There are a number of rumours which have been circulating that must be stopped:
1) "Kodak has examined the film and pronounced that it is not a fake". This is not true, however Kodak have agreed in principle to examine the film as have a private film company in London, but no examination has yet taken place.
2) "The BBC Horizon program has bought the film". This also is not true. The BBC have expressed an interest in the film but nobody has bought it yet.
3) "President Truman appears in the film". This cannot yet be confirmed or denied. People do appear in the film but are in suits (protective) and thus identity is not easy to establish.
So what of the film? Well Phillip has seen 2 parts of the film and here are his comments on what he saw:
Part 1: This is of very poor quality and there is no sound. It shows 2 men in white coats wh appear to be involved with an alien body.
Part 2: This is of muchbetter quality and shows a full autopsy of an alien. The creature is in full view and is being investiagted by 2 men in protective suits. The suits only have small rectangular area for the men to see out of. In addition there is a 3rd person in the background who appears to be some sort of general surgeon. The alien is hairless, has a bloated abdomen and has spindly arms and legs. He/She/It is not particularly big althoug the exact size is hard to ascertain. It does have the typical black slanted eyes although these are not as big as some have suggested. In this part of the film a full autopsy takes place. The eyes turn out to be a type of "skin" which when removed reveal eyeballs underneath. The autopsy then continues with major organs being removed.
Phillip Mantle and BUFORA are not making any claims, whether positive or negative about the validity of the film. BUFORA is investigating the subject, but until all investiagtions are complete no further comments on the usefulness of the film will be made.
BUFORA are now planning to show the film (or at least part of it) at their annual conference which is being held in Sheffield on 19-20 August. BUFORA now have a sponsor for the conference, Sony Music, and a relaunch of "War of the Worlds" music by Jeff Wayne will be made at the conference. If you wish to receieve more information then please send an SAE to:
Congress '95
1 Woodhall Drive
Batley
West Yorkshire
England WF17 7SW.
So until the film has been shown and the media have had their say, please do not add any more rumours to the already rampant list that is currently circulating.
JH.
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Page Index
Subj: Roswell Film
Section: Mutual UFO Network
To: Joshua Shapiro, 74217,1412
Date: Friday, May 05, 1995 5:59:12 PM
From: Laura Miller/SYSOP, 75033,620
Hi Joshua,
Just to fill you in a little more on the Roswell film...Bob Kiviat, one of the producers of
Encounters, is flying to Britain to see the film. He expressed his concerns to the owner of
the film, stating that he would like to have it analyzed thoroughly and if proven to be real,
is prepared to make him an offer. In that case Encounters would air it on Fox.
If I hear anymore I'll let you know.
Regards,
Laura Miller/SYSOP
Encounters Forum
Page Index
Finally we Hear From Robert Mitchell!
Robert Mitchell is still tracking this case and sent me the two following messages on May 5th ..... Illinois
===================
- Area: Paranet:UFO
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 8403 Date: 04-25-95 14:11
From: Stephenh Read: Yes Replied: No
To: All Mark:
Subj: Roswell film: Truman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
From: stephenh@netcom.com (stephenh)
Many accounts of the Reg Presley "Roswell Film" mention the filmed
presence of then-Pres. Harry Truman at the field autopsy site.
According to the the most recent information I have on the Roswell
crash ("The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell, 1994, Kevin Randle
and Donald Schmitt, M. Evans and Co., New York, pp. 3-10), the autopsy
at the crash site should have happened on Saturday, July 5, 1947.
Two photographers on the site had come from Washington on the flight
with Thomas. Neither was on the special 9-man team, but they were
given full access tothe impact site so that they coud record the
scene before verything was moved out. According to Easley, "One was
a tech sergeant and the other a master sergeant... [They were]
real pros [who] knew their business. They came out with Thomas...
[They] took stills and they took movies of the area." (p. 10)
According to Truman's appointment calendar, Truman gave a speech
at Monticello, Virginia on Friday, July 4, 1947. He had lunch
at the Collonade Club in that area.
On Saturday, July 5, 1947, according to the calendar, Truman spent the
day at the estate of Mr. Stanley Woodward, then U.S. ambassador
to Canada, in Charlottesville, Virginia. At 9:45 AM, he took
a stroll in the estate grounds with General Laver (sp.?)
and Admiral Falatte (sp.?). Secretary (of State?) Snyder,
who had resided at the estate overnight as a house guest, departed
in the morning for Washington, DC.
No other entries exist for July 5, 1947.
On Sunday, July 6, 1947, the President departed in a motorcade
for Washington, DC.
The trip was said to be noted by the New York Times at the time.
The next weekend went roughly as follows:
Friday, July 11, 1947: cabinet meeting, followed by a meeting
with the assistant secretary of the Treasury.
Saturday, July 12, 1947: 10:15-5:45 entertained at the residence
of the Postmaster General.
Sunday, July 13, 1947: no appointments (presumably at the White House).
I have no information on whether Truman spent any time in Houston
around this time frame, as had been hinted at in other recent postings
on the net. During calendar year 1947, there is no official record
of Truman having visited New Mexico at any time for any purpose.
Conclusion.
The evidence is somewhat inconclusive. Truman may have been
at Ambassador Woodward's residence in Virginia on the date
in which the crash site was filmed, but there is no evidence
that he was in the public eye during that day, and in theory
the stay at the Ambassador's residence could have been manufactured
as a cover story to hide an airplane trip to Roswell. However,
there is as of yet no public evidence that Truman went to Roswell
in July 1947 to view the autopsy site.
More research may be useful, particularly into the Truman Administration personnel (valet, etc.) and the other individuals named (Amb. Woodward, Gen. Laver, Adm. Falatte) who might conceivably still be alive who can testify as to whether or not Truman actually remained at the residence in Virginia on Saturday, July 5, 1947.
Comments and other information welcome.
: what kind of airports were available to fly Truman out of
: Charlottesville? how long would the flight be? narrow down how much
: time he had to make this: trip and see if it is possible. what about : newspaper clippings from that small town in VA, any pictures? what's
: the closest military base?
Monticello, where Truman gave his speech July 4, is right outside (SE ~1 mi.)of Charlottesville.
There is one airport near Charlottesville. The name might be the
Charlottesville-Albermarle Airport. The airport is about 4 miles NNE
of Charlottesville on US highway 29. The location is from a 1982 map.
The next nearest airport appears to be in the Washington, DC area.
My recollection is that the fastest fighters of the time (jets)
were not very reliable (the Nazi jets were more stable, and even they
were not easy to fly). The fastest prop was probably still the P51,
which had a speed of ~400 mph. But I think it somewhat unlikely that Truman would fly in such a plane. More likely he would have flown in a transport such as a DC-3, or a possibly a bomber such as a B-17 (see
the movie "The Best Years of Our Lives" made in 1946 for a typical trip of this type in a military aircraft).
These planes have speeds in the range of 150 mph to 250 mph (very
rough). For calculations, let's say 200 mph. If the distance to
Roswell is about 1500 mi., that's 7.5 hours, which I believe would
just be possible with some planes without refueling. The prevailing
winds blow from west to east, which would slow the plane down somewhat
going west, and speed it up going east, but not by a large amount
either way. Conceivably, a refueling stop might be made necessary
depending on the type of plane used and the wind conditions. However,
a transfer to a different waiting aircraft could be arranged in
transit (and probably was, since time would have been precious).
Allow about one hour time delay for the prevailing winds.
The alleged UFO crash allegedly occured at about 11:27 PM Roswell
time, according to "The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell",
by Randle and Schmitt.
That's Mountain Standard Time according to my map. It
would be 1:27 AM Eastern time. Assume it took Truman one hour
to get to the airport outside Charlottesville, and one hour
to get to the Roswell crash site from the Roswell AAFB. Truman
could arrive at the Roswell crash site at about 2:00 PM Mountain Time.
So Truman could conceivably fly into Roswell overnight, and be there
in the mid or late afternoon. If he took a faster plane, such as
a 2-seater P-51, the time could be moved up considerably, possibly
to about 11:30 AM Mountain Time.
According to "The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell",
the aliens were transported to Roswell AAFB in the late afternoon
or early evening of July 5. On skimming the book, I was unable to
find more precise times.
It's late here and the figures need review, as I am not an airplane
pilot. However, a relative of mine is, and was, during that period,
so I'll try to get the figures reviewed and if there are any
corrections I'll try to post them later.
Conclusion:
The timing is rather tight, but it does not seem to be impossible
for Truman to have been at Roswell in the afternoon of July 5, 1947,
given the transportation technology of the time period.
--s.
... Catch the Blue Wave!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
===================
- Area: Paranet:UFO -------------------------------------------------
Msg#: 512 Date: 05-01-95 23:49
From: Stephenh Read: Yes Replied: No
To: All Mark:
Subj: Re: Roswell film: Truman
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: stephenh@netcom.com (stephenh)
Kathi Hennesey (kathi.hennesey@awaiter.com) wrote: : RE: The available airports in the Charlottesville area, out of which : Truman might have flown to Roswell...current airport info. may be a : guide, but only 1947 airport info. will do! Maybe the local/regional : FAA office could supply historical, i.e. 1947, info. for that : geographical area. Not only are new airports built and old airports : closed, but the type of traffic handled may change over time for a given : field. The county airport where I earned my license has changed : dramatically over the last 10 years as to what type of air traffic it : accomodates. Keep up the good work with the time estimates for Trumans' : travel!
I didn't bother to post more but since you asked, I found out that the airport 4 miles north of Charlottesville (the Charlottesville-Albermarle) was opened August 17, 1954...
I believe P-51s (for example) are known to have been landed in areas not normally associated with airplane landings, such as dirt roads and hard ground fields.
However, all of such incidents that I am aware of involve the rescue of other pilots who have crash-landed behind enemy lines (WWII, Korea) and survived. In other words, such landings were attempted to the extent of my awareness primarily in emergency situations-- it's not the sort of thing that would be associated with picking up a US President, although it can't be ruled out categorically.
Add to this the difficulty of landing at night and telephone wires, and the likelihood of such a pickup happening may be vanishingly small.
If there was no earlier airport in the area, and a landing/takeoff were not done, then the nearest airports I can find (using AAA-level maps, admittedly not air navigation maps) are in the Washington, DC area: Dulles (commercial) in Virginia and Andrews (military) in Maryland. They both appear to be about 70-80 miles from Charlottesville (very approximate). I would put this at 1 1/2 hours drive +/- 15 minutes or so. Of these two, my choice (if I were Truman's military aide) would be Andrews, because the security would be easy to arrange and the likelihood of attracting unwanted publicity would be minimized. I believe Andrews AAFB is also mentioned in the Roswell research literature as a destination for some of the UFO crash wreckage, for inspection by Eisenhower there, before going on to Wright-Patterson. This scenario could add about 45 minutes or an hour to a delay in Truman arriving at Roswell, which in my opinion adds somewhat more of a hurdle to explaining the plausibility of a visit, but still does not appear to rule out categorically a Truman visit to Roswell.
There is more information, but I'll post that later, presuming the entire scenario is not debunked by some other means by that time.
--s.
===================
- Area: Mufon Public Echo --------------------------------------------
Msg#: 5613 Date: 05-04-95 17:46
From: James Easton Read: Yes Replied: No
To: All Mark:
Subj: Alleged Roswell Film
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I received a fax yesterday morning from Tony Dodd, Director of Investigations at Quest International, publishers of UFO Magazine (UK).
I had mentioned to Tony the allegations that the alleged Roswell archive film was actually footage shot for a Brazilian TV documentary and he confirms this is the second occasion he has been directed to Brazilian film companies. Quest have the resources to investigate this in more detail and Tony states that he has contacts in Brazil who are currently doing so.
His opinion is that "I have no doubt whatsoever that this film is a fake from many enquiries I have made".
As Tony says, "Like you, I feel that this could set Ufology back years, if allowed to proceed unchecked".
I also spoke for an hour or so last night with Graham Birdsall, Editor of UFO Magazine and discussed this entire matter at length.
Graham stated that Quest International have been "inundated" with media enquiries concerning Friday's press conference and indicated that this was possibly going to be a sizable press conference, probably the largest ever UFO related press conference in the U.K.
Graham confirmed that Quest's viewpoint was that of a damage limitation exercise and they were at pains to warn the media to be very cautious concerning anything that may be claimed about this film.
Sadly, only the Sunday People newspaper seemed to appreciate what Quest are implying.
Graham has spoken to several people who know Santilli and have had previous dealings with him. Apparently, "con-man" would be a compliment.
I was also advised of several major flaws within the footage which has already been shown, but it's difficult to judge such claims without having seen the film.
What was clear is that Quest are bracing themselves for a backlash and their response will simply be "look, we told you so".
What was even clearer was the dismay that BUFORA and Philip Mantle in particular have been grossly irresponsible in promoting this film with little, if any, objectivity and that financial considerations seemed to be paramount.
Graham also stated that the current promotion of the Roswell TV film, just released on video in the U.K., has supporting material provided by BUFORA and this includes fake photographs. When Graham challenged Philip Mantle about the integrity of this, Philip apparently shrugged his shoulders and said, "What do I care". I don't wish to become involved in slander, but, without my asking, Graham said I could quote him on this.
There was much more to be concerned about, including the results of Stanton Friedman's investigations and his discussion with Santilli. For example, according to Friedman, on the date that President Truman is allegedly shown in Roswell, he was actually launching a ship in California.
There is, to my knowledge, as yet no concrete proof that this film has a perfectly mundane origin. Conversely, there is little evidence, if any, that it is archive film from Roswell.
A press conference at this stage is unquestionably therefore irresponsible and we may be at a watershed in terms of what little credibility UFOlogy has left, certainly as far as the U.K. is concerned.
As Graham said, "We have 36 hours left to try and do something."
I make it less than 24 now.
Tony Dodd has promised to let me know the results of current investigations in Brazil and I will of course pass on any further, relevant information.
BUFORA can be contacted at:
bufora@stairway.co.uk
Cheers,
James.
===============================
From: Perceptions, March/April 1995
Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 15:26:09 +0100
From: James Easton
Subject: Alleged Roswell Archive Film
Don Allen commented:
>Guess what? Just when you thought this soap opera couldn't get any
>_more_ strange, it has. :-)
Unfortunately, it's potentially more of a tragedy than a soap opera.
I spoke for an hour or so last night with Graham Birdsall, Editor of UFO Magazine and discussed this entire matter at length.
Graham stated that Quest International have been "inundated" with media enquiries concerning Friday's press conference and indicated that this was possibly going to be a sizable press conference, probably the largest ever UFO related press conference in the U.K.
Graham confirmed that Quest's viewpoint was that of a damage limitation exercise and they were at pains to warn the media to be very cautious concerning anything that may be claimed about this film.
Sadly, only the Sunday People newspaper seemed to appreciate what Quest are implying.
Graham has spoken to several people who know Santilli and have had previous dealings with him. Apparently, "con-man" would be a compliment.
I was also advised of several major flaws within the footage which has
already been shown, but it's difficult to judge such claims without having seen the film.
What was clear is that Quest are bracing themselves for a backlash and their response will simply be "look, we told you so".
What was even clearer was the dismay that BUFORA and Philip Mantle in
particular have been grossly irresponsible in promoting this film with
little, if any, objectivity and that financial considerations seemed to be paramount.
Graham also mentioned that the current promotion of the Roswell TV film, just released on video in the U.K., has supporting material provided by BUFORA and this includes fake photographs. When Graham challenged Philip Mantle about the integrity of this, Philip apparently shrugged his shoulders and said, "What do I care". I don't wish to become involved in slander, but, without my asking, Graham said I could quote him on this.
There was much more to be concerned about, including the results of Stanton Friedman's investigations and his discussion with Santilli. For example, according to Friedman, on the date that President Truman is allegedly shown in Roswell, he was actually launching a ship in California.
There is, to my knowledge, as yet no concrete proof that this film has a perfectly mundane origin. Conversely, there is little evidence, if any, that it is archive film from Roswell.
A press conference at this stage is unquestionably therefore irresponsible and we may be at a watershed in terms of what little credibility UFOlogy has left, certainly as far as the U.K. is concerned.
As Graham said, "We have 36 hours left to try and do something."
I make it less than 24 now.
Tony Dodd has promised to let me know the results of current investigations in Brazil and I will of course pass on any further, relevant information.
Cheers,
James.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: TEXJE@BONALY.HW.AC.UK * JAMES.EASTON@STAIRWAY.CO.UK
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