Debian bug report logs - #1555
suggestion for dselect

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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 95 03:08 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect
In-Reply-To: <9510091556.AA07466@ganges>
References: <m0t1ZOF-0002aNZ@chiark.al.cl.cam.ac.uk>
	<9510091556.AA07466@ganges>

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> On Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST, Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk> said:
> > Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> >> the keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a
> >> matter of personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its
> >> keybindings from a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???
> >
> > There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
> > mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
> > will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been
> > laid out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully
> > be informative.
> 
> Just curious...  Why did you decide to lay them out manually?  The
> help screen is scrollable, isn't it?

No, it isn't.  It *just* fits on a 24x80 screen.  I decided it would
be better to have a well-laid-out and well organised help screen than
one that was worse but scrollable.  I don't think it's possible to do
both perfectly - there's a tradeoff here, and I think making it
against supporting very small screens (and against using large ones to
their full potential) is worthwhile.

Ian.

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From: Michael E. Deisher <deisher@enws428.EAS.ASU.EDU>
To: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk, debian-bugs@pixar.com
Cc: debian-bugs@pixar.com
In-Reply-To: <m0t1ZOF-0002aNZ@chiark.al.cl.cam.ac.uk> (message from Ian
	Jackson on Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST)
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

On Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST, Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk> said:

> Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
>> the keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a
>> matter of personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its
>> keybindings from a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

> There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
> mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
> will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been
> laid out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully
> be informative.

Just curious...  Why did you decide to lay them out manually?  The
help screen is scrollable, isn't it?

--Mike

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 16:44 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> On Fri, 6 Oct 95 10:04:46 PDT, mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Bill Mitchell) said:
> > One thing which could help the dselect keybinding clumsiness might
> > be to work around the condition which forces dse;ect to have two
> > different keybindings for down, two for up, etc. for the two
> > different (main and the info) portions of the split-screen.  Perhaps
> > some notion of the current focus area, the ability to refocus
> > between the main screen area and the info screen area, with the up,
> > down, etc. keys remaining consistent and affecting whichever is the
> > current area of focus.
> 
> I think this is an *excellent* suggestion!  It would reduce the number
> of commands the user has to remember.  The usual key for switching the
> area of focus (in that other so-called OS) is TAB.  It would be great
> to be able just to use PGUP and PGDN for both the package description
> and the package list while changing the area of focus using TAB.  It
> would certainly help flatten the dselect learning curve for Linux
> converts (from that other so-called OS).

I think you're probably right; I'll see what I can do.

How should I indicate which half of the screen has the focus ?

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 16:44 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> On Fri, 6 Oct 95 10:04:46 PDT, mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Bill Mitchell) said:
> > One thing which could help the dselect keybinding clumsiness might
> > be to work around the condition which forces dse;ect to have two
> > different keybindings for down, two for up, etc. for the two
> > different (main and the info) portions of the split-screen.  Perhaps
> > some notion of the current focus area, the ability to refocus
> > between the main screen area and the info screen area, with the up,
> > down, etc. keys remaining consistent and affecting whichever is the
> > current area of focus.
> 
> I think this is an *excellent* suggestion!  It would reduce the number
> of commands the user has to remember.  The usual key for switching the
> area of focus (in that other so-called OS) is TAB.  It would be great
> to be able just to use PGUP and PGDN for both the package description
> and the package list while changing the area of focus using TAB.  It
> would certainly help flatten the dselect learning curve for Linux
> converts (from that other so-called OS).

I think you're probably right; I'll see what I can do.

How should I indicate which half of the screen has the focus ?

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

From cus.cam.ac.uk!iwj10 Sat Oct  7 23:14:58 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

From cus.cam.ac.uk!iwj10 Sat Oct  7 09:35:46 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

From cus.cam.ac.uk!iwj10 Sat Oct  7 17:56:36 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

From cus.cam.ac.uk!iwj10 Sat Oct  7 17:53:39 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 16:44 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> On Fri, 6 Oct 95 10:04:46 PDT, mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Bill Mitchell) said:
> > One thing which could help the dselect keybinding clumsiness might
> > be to work around the condition which forces dse;ect to have two
> > different keybindings for down, two for up, etc. for the two
> > different (main and the info) portions of the split-screen.  Perhaps
> > some notion of the current focus area, the ability to refocus
> > between the main screen area and the info screen area, with the up,
> > down, etc. keys remaining consistent and affecting whichever is the
> > current area of focus.
> 
> I think this is an *excellent* suggestion!  It would reduce the number
> of commands the user has to remember.  The usual key for switching the
> area of focus (in that other so-called OS) is TAB.  It would be great
> to be able just to use PGUP and PGDN for both the package description
> and the package list while changing the area of focus using TAB.  It
> would certainly help flatten the dselect learning curve for Linux
> converts (from that other so-called OS).

I think you're probably right; I'll see what I can do.

How should I indicate which half of the screen has the focus ?

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 16:44 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> On Fri, 6 Oct 95 10:04:46 PDT, mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Bill Mitchell) said:
> > One thing which could help the dselect keybinding clumsiness might
> > be to work around the condition which forces dse;ect to have two
> > different keybindings for down, two for up, etc. for the two
> > different (main and the info) portions of the split-screen.  Perhaps
> > some notion of the current focus area, the ability to refocus
> > between the main screen area and the info screen area, with the up,
> > down, etc. keys remaining consistent and affecting whichever is the
> > current area of focus.
> 
> I think this is an *excellent* suggestion!  It would reduce the number
> of commands the user has to remember.  The usual key for switching the
> area of focus (in that other so-called OS) is TAB.  It would be great
> to be able just to use PGUP and PGDN for both the package description
> and the package list while changing the area of focus using TAB.  It
> would certainly help flatten the dselect learning curve for Linux
> converts (from that other so-called OS).

I think you're probably right; I'll see what I can do.

How should I indicate which half of the screen has the focus ?

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

From cus.cam.ac.uk!iwj10 Sat Oct  7 17:40:56 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

From cus.cam.ac.uk!iwj10 Sat Oct  7 17:39:42 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 14:34 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> Package: dpkg
> Version: 1.0
> 
> This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
> suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.
> 
> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

There is a problem with this: the help screens.  I did have a
mechanism for substituting keybindings into the help texts, but this
will be much harder to do now because the help screens have been laid
out manually to make them fit on the screen but still hopefully be
informative.

I'll see if I can think of a way to do this, but don't hold your
breath.  I'll leave this bug report open until I actually do it, or
come to the conclusion that it can't be done sensibly.

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

From enws428.EAS.ASU.EDU!deisher Sat Oct  7 16:40:17 1995
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From: Michael E. Deisher <deisher@enws428.EAS.ASU.EDU>
To: mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com, debian-bugs@pixar.com
Cc: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk, debian-bugs@pixar.com
In-Reply-To: <9510071747.AA25980@bb29c.mdd.comm.mot.com>
	(mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com)
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

On Sat, 7 Oct 95 10:47:32 PDT, mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Bill Mitchell) said:

> Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>, debian-bugs@pixar.com
>> How should I indicate which half of the screen has the focus ?
> One offhand suggestion, based on 30 seconds looking at dselect [S]
> screens with TERM=linux for color and TERM=vt100 for mono.
> 1.  On the cursor line in the main select area, bold the text.  This
> will help the mono display, I think.
> 2.  When you refocus to the info area, remove the select area cursor
> line but leave the current package line bolded.  Also, possibly,
> bold all the text in the info area when it's focused.
> 3.  Treat dependency screens the same as the selection area (cursor
> line with bolded text).
> This is a shoot-from-the-hip suggestion based on a quick look.  It
> can probably be improved.

This is approximately what I had in mind, too.  Sounds good.

--Mike

Message received at debian-bugs:

From mdd.comm.mot.com!mitchell Sat Oct  7 10:47:41 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 10:47:32 PDT
From: mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Bill Mitchell)
Message-Id: <9510071747.AA25980@bb29c.mdd.comm.mot.com>
To: iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk, debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>, debian-bugs@pixar.com

> How should I indicate which half of the screen has the focus ?

One offhand suggestion, based on 30 seconds looking at dselect
[S] screens with TERM=linux for color and TERM=vt100 for mono.

1.  On the cursor line in the main select area, bold the text.
    This will help the mono display, I think.

2.  When you refocus to the info area, remove the select area
    cursor line but leave the current package line bolded.
    Also, possibly, bold all the text in the info area when it's
    focused.

3.  Treat dependency screens the same as the selection area
    (cursor line with bolded text).

This is a shoot-from-the-hip suggestion based on a quick look.
It can probably be improved.

Message received at debian-bugs:

From cus.cam.ac.uk!iwj10 Sat Oct  7 09:44:26 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 95 16:44 BST
From: Ian Jackson <iwj10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
To: debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

Michael E. Deisher writes ("Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect"):
> On Fri, 6 Oct 95 10:04:46 PDT, mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Bill Mitchell) said:
> > One thing which could help the dselect keybinding clumsiness might
> > be to work around the condition which forces dse;ect to have two
> > different keybindings for down, two for up, etc. for the two
> > different (main and the info) portions of the split-screen.  Perhaps
> > some notion of the current focus area, the ability to refocus
> > between the main screen area and the info screen area, with the up,
> > down, etc. keys remaining consistent and affecting whichever is the
> > current area of focus.
> 
> I think this is an *excellent* suggestion!  It would reduce the number
> of commands the user has to remember.  The usual key for switching the
> area of focus (in that other so-called OS) is TAB.  It would be great
> to be able just to use PGUP and PGDN for both the package description
> and the package list while changing the area of focus using TAB.  It
> would certainly help flatten the dselect learning curve for Linux
> converts (from that other so-called OS).

I think you're probably right; I'll see what I can do.

How should I indicate which half of the screen has the focus ?

Ian.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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From: Michael E. Deisher <deisher@enws428.EAS.ASU.EDU>
To: mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com
Cc: debian-bugs@Pixar.com, debian-bugs@pixar.com
In-Reply-To: <9510061704.AA24393@bb29c.mdd.comm.mot.com>
	(mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com)
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

On Fri, 6 Oct 95 10:04:46 PDT, mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Bill Mitchell) said:

> One thing which could help the dselect keybinding clumsiness might
> be to work around the condition which forces dse;ect to have two
> different keybindings for down, two for up, etc. for the two
> different (main and the info) portions of the split-screen.  Perhaps
> some notion of the current focus area, the ability to refocus
> between the main screen area and the info screen area, with the up,
> down, etc. keys remaining consistent and affecting whichever is the
> current area of focus.

I think this is an *excellent* suggestion!  It would reduce the number
of commands the user has to remember.  The usual key for switching the
area of focus (in that other so-called OS) is TAB.  It would be great
to be able just to use PGUP and PGDN for both the package description
and the package list while changing the area of focus using TAB.  It
would certainly help flatten the dselect learning curve for Linux
converts (from that other so-called OS).

--Mike

Message received at debian-bugs:

From mdd.comm.mot.com!mitchell Fri Oct  6 10:05:07 1995
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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 10:04:46 PDT
From: mitchell@mdd.comm.mot.com (Bill Mitchell)
Message-Id: <9510061704.AA24393@bb29c.mdd.comm.mot.com>
To: debian-bugs@Pixar.com, deisher@enws428.EAS.ASU.EDU, debian-bugs@pixar.com
Subject: Re: Bug#1555: suggestion for dselect

"Michael E. Deisher" <deisher@enws428.EAS.ASU.EDU>

> I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
> keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
> personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
> a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

I also have had a problem with the dselect user interface from day 1.
After being derided for early suggestions, I put a muzzle on most dselect
user interface comments/suggestions.

This isn't an easy area to do well.  Two programs which do a pretty
good job are pine and git.  I'd rate both of those user interfaces
better than dselect's (not that either would necessarily be a good
fit with dselect's user interface needs), but I still do find both pine
and git to be a bit user-clumsy -- just less user-clumsy than dselect.

One thing which could help the dselect keybinding clumsiness might be
to work around the condition which forces dse;ect to have two different
keybindings for down, two for up, etc. for the two different (main and
the info)  portions of the split-screen.  Perhaps some notion of the
current focus area, the ability to refocus between the main screen area
and the info screen area, with the up, down, etc. keys remaining consistent
and affecting whichever is the current area of focus.

However, it's easier to make shoot-from-the-hip suggestions about user
interface issues than it is to implement an effective user interface
which seamlessly balances all the sometimes conflicting needs.  Dselect
user interface details have changed several times, and  I get the
feeling that Ian J. has been trying alternatives, looking for a good
solution.  Good user interface solutions are difficult to identify,
and even more difficult to implement maintainably.

Message received at debian-bugs:

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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:45:08 -0700
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From: Michael E. Deisher <deisher@enws428.EAS.ASU.EDU>
To: debian-bugs@Pixar.com
Subject: suggestion for dselect

Package: dpkg
Version: 1.0

This isn't exactly a bug report.  However, I didn't want this
suggestion to get lost in the shuffle.

I've just done my third installation using dselect and still find the
keybindings to be awkward.  Since this is probably just a matter of
personal taste, could dselect be modified to get its keybindings from
a config file (e.g., /etc/dpkg/keybindings)???

--Mike