     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     .                                  __                           .
     .    -*-  N A M   V E T  -*-  ____/  \_                         .
     .                            (      *  \                        .
     .        G. Joseph Peck      \    Quangtri                      .
     .        Managing Editor      \_/\       \_ Hue                 .
     .                                 \_Ashau    Phu Bai            .
     . Todd C. Looney - Chief, Emeritus  \_*       \_                .
     .                                     \      *  )               .
     .         Jerry Hindle               _/     Danang              .
     .     Distribution Manager          (            \_*Chu Lai     .
     .                                    \_    ------- \__          .
     .        Section Editors               \_  I Corps    \         .
     .        ---------------                 \ -------     !        .
     . PTSD:  Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D.          /\_____        !        .
     . AGENT ORANGE:   Martin H. Kroll, Sr. /       !        \       .
     . MIA-POW:   Rick Stolz                !       !___      \      .
     .            Glenn Toothman            !           \/\____!     .
     . HOMELESSNESS:  Lefty Frizzell        !                 !      .
     . FEDERAL BENEFITS:   Jim Hildwine    /  Dak To          !      .
     . INCARCERATED VETS:  Todd C. Looney /     *            /       .
     .                     Joyce Flory    !                  \_      .
     . MEMORIALS:  Aaron Schmiedel        !             Phu Cat\     .
     . MEMORIES:   G. Joseph Peck          \    *            *  )    .
     . CHAPLAIN:   Rev. Ed Brant            \ Pleiku            )    .
     .   -**-  N A M    V E T   -**-         \                  \    .
     .                                       /                  /    .
     . "In the jungles of 'Nam, some of us  (       --------    !    .
     . were scared and wary, but we pulled  _\      II Corps    !    .
     . one another along and were able     /        --------     \   .
     . to depend on each other.  That has  \                      \  .
     . never changed.  Today, free of the   !                 *  /   .
     . criticisms and misunderstandings   _/           Nhatrang /    .
     . many veterans have endured,      _/                     /     .
     . NAM VET is a shining beacon,  __/                       !     .
     . a ray of hope, and a    _  __/  \                       !     .
     . reminder that the _____( )/      !               Camranh Bay  .
     . lessons learned  /               !__                    !     .
     . at such a high  /                   \                  /      .
     . price shall not \          Bien Hoa  \                /       .
     . be forgotten  -  !  Chu Chi       *   \            __/        .
     . nor the errors    \_   *   ---------   \       ___/           .
     . repeated!!!"  ____  \      III Corps    \    _/               .
     .       / \_____)   )_(_     ---------     !__/  Duplication in .
     .       !               (               ___/ any form permitted .
     .  _____!                \__      * ___/      for NONCOMMERCIAL .
     . !                          Saigon/             purposes ONLY! .
     .  \___   --------           /  \/                              .
     .      \  IV Corps          /        For other use, contact:    .
     .       ) --------         /   G. Joseph Peck, Managing Editor  .
     .      /                   !  P O Box 2056 Pittsfield, MA 01202 .
     .     /               ____/            (413) 442-1660           .
     .    /         Mekong/                                          .
     .    !         Delta/  This newsletter is comprised of articles .
     .    !        ____/     and items from individuals and other    .
     .    !       /       sources.  We are not responsible for the   .
     .    !      /      content of this information nor are any of   .
     .    !   __/        NAM VETs contributors or Section Editors.   .
     .     \_/                                                   gjp .
     .                                                               .
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                      Page    i
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     

     =================================================================

                     T A B L E   O F   C O N T E N T S

     
     1.  EDITORIALS
          Conflict and growth!!! ..................................  1
          Update from the Valhalla ................................  3
          New MIA-POW Section Editor Says "Hello" .................  4
          Distribution of NamVet ..................................  6
          A "start" for our Incarcerated Brothers/Sisters .........  8
           Agent Orange Update .................................... 10

     2.  Agent Orange
          Vietnam Veterans to Benefit from VA Ruling .............. 12
          The DVA's Orange Colored Glasses ........................ 14
          Break out the Clearsil <tm>! ............................ 17
          A Veterans' Clear Window ................................ 18
          Agent Orange Grant Awarded .............................. 21

     3.  We know THIS language
          Vietnam Era Glossary .................................... 22
          Remember? ............................................... 30

     4.  Veteran Benefits & Info
          DVA To Study Benefit Reforms ............................ 34
          VA CLAIMS PROCESSING STILL SHORTAGE-PLAGUED ............. 35
          Back Pay for Veterans - Revisited ....................... 37
          Questions of the VA  .................................... 39
          VA Still Short! ......................................... 41
          Call for Increased VA Budget ............................ 42

     5.  Missing!!!
          Homecoming II Project ................................... 44
          LIVE POWs reported! ..................................... 47
          MIA: San Dewayne Francisco .............................. 62
          MIA: James Albert Champion .............................. 63
          MIA: Michael Louis Laporte  ............................. 65
          MIA: Timothy Roy Bodden  ................................ 67
          They haven't forgutten US!!! ............................ 69

     6.  'Nam Today...
          Boat People in Hong Kong ................................ 70
          Campaign Formed To End US Khmer Rouge Support ........... 75
          Peace Brigades International in SE Asia ................. 78

     7.  Remember Them!!!
          Vietnam -- The Forgotten Warriors ....................... 79
          Interview a Vet - Behind Bars ........................... 82
          A visit or note once in awhile? ......................... 86
          Bridge To Nowhere ....................................... 87

     8.  When the Chaplain whispers...
          PTSD: ANGER (FEAR, MANIPULATIVE, WITHDRAWN, NUMB) ....... 89
          The Electronic Chapel ................................... 93

     9.  Here comes Murphy
          Murphy's Laws of Combat Operations ...................... 94

     10.  Hearts & Minds
          Taps .................................................... 96
          Life Goes On ............................................ 97

     11.  Notices of Interest
          Veteran Amputees? ....................................... 100
          USS Liberty Reunion ..................................... 101
          Vet does Army CV-2 / USAF C-7 Caribou Research .......... 102
          Info on Cerebral Malaria??? ............................. 104
          Help for Homeless Vets? ................................. 105
          Agent Orange Project for children of Vietnam Veterans ... 106
          Lake County, IL Mini-Wall Schedule ...................... 107
          Finally Here!!! ......................................... 108

     12.  Concentrated Service
          Veteran Service Commissioners/Directors ................. 109
          Concentrated Service .................................... 111
          Congressman Responds to Service Request ................. 112

     13.  IVVEC & NamVet - WHERE?
          Parameters of IVVEC and NODELIST ........................ 113
          NamVet Roll Call ........................................ 118
          Some Gave All... ........................................ 120










































     NAM VET Newsletter                                      Page   ii
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
                            E D I T O R I A L S
     =================================================================

                           Conflict and growth!!!
     
                             by: G. Joseph Peck
                          NamVet's Managing Editor
                        VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA 
                               (413) 443-6313
     
        It's  been a super-busy month here at VETLink #1!!!   From  all 
     corners  of the U.S.  we've been hearing "Yes!   We want NamVet!!! 
     Please help us get it!"  Well,  thanks to our Distribution Manger, 
     Jerry Hindle (a NamVet Salute and thanx for a job done well to ya, 
     bro')  and  the many,  many of you "out there"  who are willing to 
     call and upload it to your nearby BBS's (THANX!!!),  NamVet can be 
     found  in  almost  every  US  state and in  parts  of  Canada  and 
     Australia.  We're growing -- and YOU helped us!!!
     
        It  isn't only NamVet that's been growing.   I finally found  a 
     job!   A  very-welcome paycheck is beginning to weakly roll  in... 
     'er... roll in weekly (that's the ticket!) and maybe,  just maybe, 
     my  family and I will manage to save our house/home and get a  few 
     back bills paid.   Betchya I got the cleanest hands in Pittsfield, 
     MA  too...  the "job"  is a dishwasher's job at a local truckstop!  
     Honest  work;  fun to do;  helps the family;  and helps ME think a 
     little  better about myself (thanx all you guys n'  gals out there 
     who said "take anything for now" ...  it really has a side benefit 
     that I never thought of!).  'Course, since my hours are 3-11pm, it 
     does require a little readjustment for our family and it does take 
     a tad bit of time away from VETLink #1... but the rewards are well 
     worth it!
     
        You'll notice in this issue that we have another Section Editor 
     (if  we  keep  addin'  Section  Editors we'll soon have  to  do  a 
     separate page just to list them!)  for our MIA-POW section:   Rick 
     Stolz.  He's the SysOp of the Reunion BBS in Okauchee,  Wisconsin.  
     I've called his BBS and I'm really super-impressed with the amount 
     of  detailed  work he's done to make all the  MIA-POW  information 
     available  to Reunion BBS users.   The articles he's submitted for 
     this  month are only SAMPLES of what he's done.   If ya get a  few 
     extra moments (and a few MA-BELL pennies)  ya might wanna call the 
     Reunion BBS and see what he's done.
     
        Speakin' of Section Editors...  Our Agent Orange Section Editor 
     Martin H Kroll, Sr. (see Martin...  I got the middle initial write 
     this time <grin>) has done one outstanding job of keeping right on 
     top  of what's been happening with the Agent Orange issue  -  from 
     writing  about  it  to  the highest levels of  our  government  to 
     grabbing  the  attention  of a  national  veterans'  organization.    
     Jim  Hildwine has been doing a SUPER job of getting to us all  the 
     veterans'  benefit information he can come up with -  and was even 
     responsible  for helping us FINALLY to get on the mailing list  of 
     the DVA's Office of Public Affairs.  Incarcerated Veterans Section 
     Editor(s)  Todd Looney and Joyce Flory have also been doin'  a LOT 
     of   seemingly  thankless  legwork  to  "get  the  word  out"   to 
     Commissioners  and  Directors  of  Veterans'  Affairs,   veterans' 
     groups,  and  anybody  who  has a name and address of one  of  our 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  1
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     incarcerated  (we've been hearing about it all the way up  here!).  
     Our PTSD Section Editor, Kathleen Kelly,  has been doin'  a LOT of 
     work  tryin'  to  help us look at the many sides that DO exist  to 
     questions  and points-of-view.   NamVets Chaplain,  Ed Brant,  has 
     been  doin'  a  lot of writin'  that will help our many  Christian 
     veterans.  And our Memorials Section Editor, Aaron Schmiedel,  has 
     been quite busy tryin'  to get some stuff up to us (I've seen your 
     message in the IVVEC, Aaron...)
     
        Many  of you that have called VETLink #1 in the past few  weeks 
     have noted that there's some changes going on there, too.  MASSIVE 
     changes!!!   We're in the process of installing a newer version of 
     our LYNX BBS (Called OSIRIS) and Berkshire Veterans' Center,  Inc. 
     (VETLink #1's sponsor) has just purchased an even newer, nicer BBS 
     that has the capabilities of an on-line database to display infor-
     mation concerning MIAs, POWs, Veteran Benefits in YOUR city/state, 
     ALL the NamVets to-date,  etc.   Additionally,  once everything is 
     set up and in-place,  we'll hopefully be adding an on-line Vietnam 
     Veterans Bookstore!   We're still clearing up some mites that have 
     cropped  up in the mail processing section and I hope that all our 
     downstream  nodes will keep us posted if there's ANYTHING wrong at 
     all with any of the mail they receive from us.
     
        Springtime...   a  time of the year when Christians commemorate 
     Easter  and the beginning of new life;  when Jews celebrate  their 
     long ago escape from Egypt; when the world rejoices at deliverance 
     from the harsh bite of winter and applauds the promise held in the 
     new  buds  suddenly appearing on trees and plants,  the tiny  eggs 
     found in the robin's nest, and envisions a gentle summer.
     
        Springtime in the IVVEC isn't too much different!!!
     
                             'til next month...
     
                      Show a brother or sister veteran
     
                              that YOU care!!!
     
                               Ci'ao for Ni'ao
     
                                   - Joe -
     

















     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  2
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                         Update from the Valhalla
     
                              By: Todd Looney
                         NAM VETs Chief - Emeritus
                 Vietnam Veterans Valhalla - San Jose, CA
                        (408) 737-2402 (Mail Only)
     
     There  have  been numerous issues in my life during the past  year 
     which  have nearly made it impossible for me to continue operating 
     in  any  capacity of responsibility at all,  and I would  like  to 
     thank  each  and every one of you who have  demonstrated  patience 
     beyond  belief  at times (and most certainly beyond  anything  *I* 
     have demonstrated!).  
     
     Things  are  slowly  looking better though.   For the  past  three 
     months  or  so  I have at least been able to get a system  up  and 
     running  for  e-mail purposes,  and even though that has not  been 
     entirely successful, it smoothed things out a little bit.   I have 
     a  new  PC  being  donated by Frenchy  which  should  arrive  very 
     shortly.   I  have  my old hard drive with the old  Valhalla  Opus 
     system  still installed and all (or most of)  the old files  which 
     made it the service it was.  I still have to pick up a monitor for 
     it  but that should not be too difficult.   When that happens I'll 
     install  my old faithful USR 2400 modem so that even Joe Peck  can 
     communicate with me (grin).   Hopefully that will cure most of the 
     problems  with  regard to operations anyway,  and we can give  Joe 
     that long deserved break he's been waiting for.
     
     I feel really badly about the way things have been during the past 
     year  or so,  but there has been little I could do to prevent most 
     of  it.   Thanks  to  a lot of therapy through both the  VA's  Vet 
     Centers  as  well as private sources I am able to cope  with  life 
     once again,  and getting better every day.   I really look forward 
     to  helping manage the NAM VET again and going through the  trials 
     and  tribulations of making sure that each release is put together 
     on  time and with the care it deserves.   Joe has,  and still  is, 
     doing  a  spectacular  job  despite the  issues  which  have  been 
     plaguing him and his family... I owe him,  and many of you,  a lot 
     of  thanks for standing by me when I'm sure you were wondering  if 
     there was any chance in hell for me.  
     
                               Ciao for Niao
     
                                Todd Looney
     














     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  3
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                Introducing our second MIA-POW Section Editor
                                RICK STOLZ
     
                              by: Rick Stolz
                       NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor
                    The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin
                               (414) 567-0437
     
                      Please let me introduce myself,                      
                    I'm a man of little wealth, or fame.
     
       Well that's over with. I have been asked to be Assistant Editor 
     of NamVet's MIA/POW section.  For better or worse I don't know, so 
     here goes.
     
     Service: '66-68
     Branch: Army Signal Corps
     VietNam 4/67 - 7/68  43rd Signal Bn  Central Highlands
     
       Presently I am sysop of Reunion BBS located in Wisconsin. The 
     Board is to assist Veterans of all Era's but since I am a Vietnam 
     Vet that is where I have concentrated most of the resources. 
       There would not be a Reunion BBS if it weren't for the gracious 
     help of others.  Publicly now I would like to thank them: 
         My Wife Sue, who has not seen me off the computer for two 
           months; 
         Chuck Schantag of POW Network;  
         Loren Levson; 
         LZ Birmingham who spent time and resources helping and 
           encouraging me in their belief of the need for the board. 
         Also those that helped without their knowing about it:
          Britt Small and Festival; 
          Chuck and Mary Howard of Project Omega;
            and those from HomeComing II.
     
       What we have at the Reunion BBS is primarily Databases for and 
     about VietNam Vets.  There is a Locator database that you can 
     search for vets that you might know.  It is a true database that 
     is very fast and efficient.  I am hoping in the future to be able 
     to have access to a larger database and just act as a hub.
     
       POW/MIA database; With Biographies on over 2000 MIA/POWs.  This 
     is an official DIA records database.  If someone said that they 
     where a POW it is here.  It lists people that where POW's for as 
     little as a few hours.  If they ain't here then they weren't 
     POW's.  The MIA's area lists even foreign nationals and covers all 
     of Southeast Asia, the men lost in Cambodia, or Laos.  Makes no 
     difference.  When someone says that the sightings of POW's are 
     only people that wanted to stay there because they went AWOL, just 
     tell them that there are only 18 officially listed as AWOL and 
     that there have been sightings of 20 or more in one group.
     
       I will be adding a Reunions database as soon as the files are 
     edited to Dbase.  It will have over 1800 reunions that can be 
     searched, to find out if there is a reunion planned for your unit. 
     I expect to have it up by the middle of April.
       
       That about says it all for myself, and the board that I can 
     think of for now. I am new to this so if there are suggestions 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  4
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     please feel free to submit them.
     
       The purpose of the Reunion BBS, though, is to bring our MIA/POWs 
     home, and never forget that until they are all back, there is 
     still unfinished business there.  You where called on once to do 
     an unpleasant job.  If they would have let you do it the way you 
     were supposed to do it and cut out all the diplomacy crap, the 
     list of KIA, MIA, and Pow's wouldn't be so long.  
     
       Now there is another job to do: to put pressure on the 
     government to get their ass in gear to bring the MIA/POWs home,  
     to let them know that you will not forget that there are still 
     over 3500 reasons not to forget, and to tell them that you will 
     never let them sweep this under the rug like they have done in the 
     past. 
     
       Traditionally we are not joiners.  We have been conditioned not 
     to jump into things.  But when the chips are down there was never 
     a doubt that you could be counted on to do the job.    
     
       Now after 20+ years we are still being called on to bring our 
     brothers and sisters home to live, or to rest in peace - the peace 
     that we still haven't found, the peace that will heal our wounds, 
     cleanse our souls, and allow us to again trust in our fellow man.
     
       We are a minority in this country.  Why should there be any cry 
     from the majority to bring our people home?  They didn't want us 
     when we came back alive.  How can you tell someone that thinks 
     Jane Fonda is a hero that it is important to us to see that our 
     brothers and sisters be brought home.  It must be fate that we are 
     to fight throughout our lives, that no ground comes easy, that we 
     must always walk point. 
     
       In this month's newsletter I will try to make the faceless names 
     more real to you by listing the names by state.  If you see that 
     there are so many from your state that didn't come back, then 
     there might be more of an understanding, and MIA/POW might be more 
     personal. I will also start to print Personal Biographies on one 
     branch per issue per month.  Lets hope that I wont have to print 
     them all. 
     
       'til they come home, we aren't home yet....................
     
                                  Rick%%%       
     














     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  5
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                          Distribution of NamVet
     
                             By: Jerry Hindle
                       NamVets Distribution Manager
                   M.R.M.S. Mk VII   (7:48/0.0) (7:48/0)
                            Memphis, Tennessee
     
     I  will be handling the distribution of the namvet newsletter from 
     now  on  and would like to set up some sort of guidelines for  its 
     distribution  to  any systems wanting it.  These rules are  fairly 
     simple and will not involve any great inconvience to you, nor will 
     it cost you anything.  
     
     1st ---   The NAMVET NEWSLETTER will not be restricted by politics 
     within  any  network.  Simply put this means that wherever  it  is 
     needed  it  will  go.  If  this conflicts  with  any  nets  policy 
     concerning  file  distribution then all means for working  out  an 
     agreement  (short  of  modifying my  system)  will  be  attempted, 
     however  failing  that  I will continue to send it to  anyone  who 
     wants it.  
     
     2nd ---   While I am willing to send it to you I ain't rich by any 
     means.  Please  be  sure  your system is crash mailable  and  will 
     accept  mail from my system which is in ALTERNET.  This means that 
     those  of  you running fidonet only systems will need to  be  sure 
     your system accepts mail from "unlisted"  systems,  otherwise your 
     end will keep hanging up on my mailer when I attempt to call.  
     
     3rd  ---   While  HST connections are preferred,  I will  send  to 
     slower modems or modems like the trailblazer.  If you are in a net 
     where  there  is  already a system set up to  receive  the  namvet 
     newsletter,  you will be directed to that sysop for a feed.  There 
     is  NO reason for me to send it to two systems in the same net  no 
     matter  what the reasons.  If there are 2 systems in the same  net 
     the  system  with the HST gets prefference as that is  the  faster 
     method for me. 
      
     4th  ---   Overseas  distribution is being thought of and will  be 
     accomodated  if I can find the funds.  If you are willing to  poll 
     for  the  newsletter and can live with "talking  to"  an  Alternet 
     system, then let me know and we will set it up for you.  CANADA is 
     not  considered overseas,  it is considered to be part of CONUS as 
     far  as the telephone is concerned and thus falls under the  first 
     three rules. 
     
     5th ---  And finally if you want the newsletter and can netmail an 
     alterent system then send netmail to 7:48/0 asking for a feed.  In 
     that message you will need to tell me the following: 
     
     net/node  number (complete with zone)   (ie 7:48/0  or 1:123/7)  I 
     presently  run  fidonet and alterent nodelists and will be  adding 
     eggnet and any other "nets" I think are needed to my nodelist.  
     
     YOUR NAME & VOICE NUMBER I can reach you at in the evenings 
     
     what type of modem you have  (name brand and speed) 
     
     whether you can accept "crash mail" or not (are you a CM system) 
     
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  6
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     what hours you operate in mail mode if you are NOT a CM system
     
     will  your  system  talk to a SEADOG Mailer (ie you  are  NOT  and 
     FD199B  or D'Bridge system without sealink protocol).  If you  are 
     running  either D'Bridge or FrontDoor ver 199B then I will have to 
     try  a  test  shot to you to see if my mailer will talk  to  yours 
     before I attempt to send the full newsletter.  
     
     Simple  enough,  I will handle the rest from here and if I need to 
     contact you I will call you at the number you give me. Like I said 
     I ain't rich by any means but am trying to do my bit. Please let's 
     not  go  overboard with this.  I can handle 20 -  30 systems  each 
     month  and allow FReq's of the newsletter every day except  during 
     NMH.  
     
                                    THX 
     
                               Jerry Hindle 
     








































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  7
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                               "A Start..."
     
                           Input by: Joyce Flory
               NAM VETs Incarcerated Veterans Section Editor
                    Desert Dolphin BBS - Las Cruces, NM
                              (505) 523-2811
     
       The following is an update on my progress and a copy of a letter 
     I got from one of our incarcerated.
     
      Here's the latest on my quest for finding that illusive list of 
     incarcerated vets.
     
      I've gotten word from Craig McLaren and am awaiting the 6th 
     edition of his list of incarcerated vet groups. I am told this 
     covers over 130 groups in over 39 states. When that list gets here 
     I'll be VERY busy with my printer and probably wear out my tongue 
     licking stamps :).
     
      I have also been in touch with George Herbert, VVA Chapter 294. I 
     got a form letter from 4-A-MATCH and they are more visit-oriented 
     than letter writing. I am still being shuffled around in Albany, 
     but think I MAY be getting somewhere, at long last. I have gotten 
     2 letters from Whitmarsh Bailey, one of the incarcerated vets 
     who's address I've left in my updates. He has provided 3 more 
     names for our list.
                            Jerry Baack #57098
                          Chris S. Crespin #45523
                         Dennis E. Prentiss #43497
           Any or all may be contacted at P.O. box R (prison #)
                           Buena Vista,Co. 81211
     
      As always,if you have a group for me to contact or think you may 
     have an address I could use,leave it on the Echo, at 1:305/105, or 
     1825 Evelyn, Las Cruces, NM 88001.
     
      I was given permission to copy the following by Whitmarsh Bailey. 
     He says his story is typical of the other vets he is incarcerated 
     with.
     
      "Dear Joyce Flory                                        3/5/90
         It was a great surprise to get a letter from you. I'm very 
     glad that some people are taking time to care about incarcerated 
     Vietnam Vets.
         There are about 10 Vietnam Veterans here at this prison. I 
     went around last night and asked all of them if they were 
     interested but only got 3 names for you. I showed your letter and 
     put in a pitch. Most of the guys said that they wanted to write 
     single women,but to me it doesn't matter. A few didn't like the 
     typed letter they said it should be more personal, which I agree.    
     If you know anything about Vietnam Vets, it's hard for them to 
     open up to people. I know it's hard for me. I will keep trying for 
     you and maybe I will get a few more names for you. Here are the 
     names:
                            Jerry Baack #57098
                          Chris S. Crespin #45523
                         Dennis E Prentiss #43497
      All have the same address,make shore that the DOC (Department of 
     Corrections) number is on the envelope.
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  8
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

      Now a little bit about myself. Well I was in the Army and was in 
     Vietnam in 1970 and 71 and was with the 101st and the 196th and 
     yes I was a Grunt, that's enough of that.
         I'm 38 years old and was born and raised in Charleston, S.C. I 
     was married for 16 years, but divorced now. There are 2 girls, 
     Lori 17 and Stephane 15. Both of them are under the care of Social 
     Services. That hurts me and I fight with the courts all the time 
     trying for visits, pictures, reports and phone calls.
         I was arrested in 1986 for 2nd Degree attempted murder (16 
     year sentence).  I was living in Rifle, Co. and was working at the 
     Union Oil, oil shale plant in Parachute. I was a pipe welder and 
     had been welding for about 15 years. Really it was one of the best 
     jobs that I had ever had in my life. Plus raising the kids in a 
     small town really helped alot.
         There are alot of programs here at the prison that help 
     everybody but there aren't any programs for Vietnam Veterans. I 
     have been diagnosed as having PTSD and get a disability for it, 
     none of the other vets get this and have no way of getting this 
     because there is no one to help them. Don't get me wrong we really 
     have tried, it's just Colorado they don't care one bit.
         It's a shame to, because most of the vets are in prison on 
     crimes that there crime directs from Vietnam. Drug problems, 
     Killings everything.
         There are thousands of us in prisons around the country and no 
     one is looking at us and no one even cares. We need help and the 
     lawmakers need to take into account that the Vietnam Vet has been 
     through alot and do make mistakes and prison isn't the answer. 
     There are hospitals and vet groups, in and out patient treatment 
     that would help more than being locked up.
         Well things that I like to do. Watch TV, sports and good 
     movies, working in Arts and crafts where I make belt buckle and I 
     keep my mine and hands busy and that makes the time go by faster.
         All of this has been hard for me, I am honored to be writing 
     to you because I know that you care. Maybe when we get to know 
     each other better we can exchange pictures and things like that. 
     Even you might even be able to find an unmarried lady for me to 
     write. New Mexico isn't that far from Colorado and you never know 
     what might happen.
         You take care of yourself and that family of your. I wish you 
     the best in life and hope to hear from you soon. I feel that we 
     will get to be good friends. Thanks for the lift.
                                               Sincerely,
                                                Whitmarsh Bailey
     
     P.S. We should be on first name basis, everybody calls me "Whit".
     Thanks again, Joyce"
     












     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page  9
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                            Agent Orange Update
     
                            By: Martin H. Kroll
                   NAM VETs Agent Orange Section Editor
                 Fort Mountain BBS - Chatsworth, Ga. 30705
                              (404) 695-8703
     
     Recent  announcements  by  the Veterans Administration  and  other 
     government  officials are beginning to shine a ray of hope towards 
     Vietnam  veterans  who  have health problems due  to  "service  in 
     Vietnam."  Please note that I did not say due to exposure to Agent 
     Orange.  Although it has now been officially recognized that there 
     is  a link between service in Vietnam and certain cancers,  the VA 
     has  fallen  short  of admitting that Agent  Orange  exposure  has 
     caused many of the Vietnam veteran's ills.   It has been announced 
     that  payments  will  be made to veterans suffering  from  certain 
     cancers  and illnesses connected to duty in  Vietnam.   Disability 
     classifications  will be forthcoming with the possibility of  some 
     veterans  receiving as much as $1500 per month and some dependents 
     of  deceased  Vietnam veterans receiving up to approximately  $500 
     per month.   Based upon past actions of the government and the VA, 
     I am curious to see just how this will be handled and the criteria 
     for determining who will be eligible and who will not.
     
     We  must  recognize at this point that not everyone in  government 
     and  the Department of Veterans Affairs is afraid to speak out  on 
     the  issues and yes,  there are some very fine people working  for 
     the cause of Vietnam veterans and their families.  There are still 
     those  though  that continue the battle against us and  refuse  to 
     admit  the harm of Agent Orange and the plight of Vietnam veterans 
     that  were  exposed to Agent Orange.   Since reaching middle  age, 
     many  veterans  have indeed become prosperous and influential  and 
     more  will continue to join their ranks in the next ten to  twenty 
     years.   They are being heard and are gaining support on an almost 
     daily  basis now and the time is coming when the evidence will  be 
     so overwhelming that the government will no longer be able to drag 
     their  feet  on the Agent Orange issue and will be forced to  take 
     the actions that should have been taken years ago.  Namely,  doing 
     whatever  is  necessary  to provide health care and  benefits  for 
     those that deserve it.
     
     The  government's reluctance to admit the Agent Orange link  leads 
     me to believe that there is a lot more to the issue than meets the 
     eye.   We  can not forget that Vietnam veterans were not the  only 
     ones affected by the spraying of Agent Orange.  Also affected were 
     the  countless  number  of Vietnamese civilians who  also  had  no 
     choice  in  the  matter.   Then  you must consider  all  of  their 
     children  and grandchildren.   If our government is finally forced 
     into  admitting  that the spraying of Agent Orange was  a  drastic 
     mistake  and  has affected the health of a nation of civilians  as 
     well as our veterans,  what will the legal and moral ramifications 
     be?  We should remember also that most Vietnam veterans did get to 
     come  home  to  the  USA  after a year or  so  of  duty  but  most 
     Vietnamese  civilians  were  stuck there in areas  that  had  been 
     saturated  with herbicides.   I think that it is obvious that  the 
     United States cannot afford to provide health care and benefits on 
     such a scale as this.
     
     I  am not certain that there would even be any legal recourse that 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 10
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     Vietnam  could  seek  but  the thought comes to  my  mind  when  I 
     question  the reasons that our government has prolonged this issue 
     for so long.  They continue to spout "lack of scientific evidence" 
     and  "lack  of conclusive proof"  in light of the fact  that  many 
     veterans  of  wars past have been justly awarded disabilities  and 
     benefits  based upon much less evidence than has been presented in 
     the  Agent Orange issue.  I for one do not care to sacrifice their 
     health and continue to deny my brother and sister veterans what is 
     justifiably  and  morally due  them because our government made  a 
     mistake.   Mistakes  can  be put behind us and in some cases  even 
     forgiven  but  not  as long as there is a refusal  to  admit  that 
     mistake and take corrective action.
     
     To  those  officials  that  still  cling  to  the  "no  scientific 
     evidence"  theory  and  are so certain that Agent Orange  did  not 
     affect our veterans health, I have an interesting proposal.  Since 
     it is obvious that you were probably never exposed to Agent Orange 
     I  think that you would make perfect subjects for a new scientific 
     study that would lay this issue to rest once and for all.   Let us 
     develop  a viable criteria for a new "scientific study"  and since 
     you  are  so convinced that Agent Orange is harmless,  you  should 
     then  have  no  qualms about volunteering to be exposed  to  Agent 
     Orange under controlled circumstances for a period of at least one 
     year.  We could then drag this thing out for many more years while 
     we  compare  the  findings  of your control group  with  those  of 
     Vietnam veterans and even non-veteran control groups that have not 
     been exposed.   If you are willing to do this then your claims may 
     begin to gain a little credibility.   If you are not willing to do 
     this  then  it  is  time  for you to do  some  very  serious  soul 
     searching and question your values and morals!
     
     Brother  and sister veterans,  we are gaining momentum and if  you 
     have  not  joined  in  voicing your opinions  and  demanding  that 
     justice  be served now is the time to do so.   I urge you to flood 
     Congress,  the  Senate,  the  VA,  and the White House  with  your 
     letters  stating your concerns.   The fire has been smoldering for 
     years and now it begins to get just a little hotter.   I urge you, 
     fuel the fire!
     
                 Martin H. Kroll, Vietnam Veteran 1966-67
     


















     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 11
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
                          A g e n t   O r a n g e
     =================================================================

                VIETNAM VETERANS TO BENEFIT FROM VA RULING
     
                      Department of Veterans Affairs
                  Office of Public Affairs - News Service
                           Washington, DC  20420
                              (202) 233-2741
     
                         Input by: G. Joseph Peck
                         NAM VETs Managing Editor
                        VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                              (413) 443-6313
     
       Washington, Mar.  29 --  Secretary of Veterans Affairs Edward J. 
     Derwinski,  following  personal consultation with President  Bush, 
     today  ruled  that Vietnam veterans stricken with a rare  form  of 
     cancer  are entitled to disability payments based on their service 
     in Vietnam.
     
       Derwinski  said he determined that "there is at the present time 
     enough  information  for  me to give the benefit of the  doubt  to 
     Vietnam veterans and direct that VA conclude that the disease non-
     Hodgkin's  lymphoma  is service-connected with duty  in  Vietnam."  
     Derwinski  said  his  decision reflects the  President's  personal 
     concern  for  veterans  whose  health may have  been  affected  by 
     military duty.
     
       The  VA  Secretary  acted  following today's  release  of  study 
     results  by  the U.S.  Centers for Disease Control that showed  an 
     increased  risk  of  the  disease among  veterans  who  served  in 
     Vietnam.  The CDC reported that the risk of non-Hodgkin's lymphoma 
     is  50 percent greater among Vietnam veterans than among  veterans 
     who served elsewhere, although it did not point to Agent Orange or 
     any  other factor as causing the elevated risk.   Agent Orange was 
     sprayed  from  1965 to 1970 in Vietnam to destroy enemy crops  and 
     ground cover.
     
       Derwinski  said his decision was not based solely on  scientific 
     conclusions or the lack of them.  "I am exercising my authority... 
     to  make  a  determination  that in my judgment  there  is  enough 
     information  to  give  Vietnam veterans the benefit of  the  doubt 
     regarding  non-Hodgkin's lymphoma and its connection to service in 
     Vietnam."
     
       Last  May,  Derwinski  announced he would not appeal  a  federal 
     court  ruling  that said VA's cause-and-effect standards were  too 
     strict for VA to be in compliance with a 1984 law governing dioxin 
     and radiation claims.   Dioxin is a poisonous contaminant that was 
     found  in  Agent Orange and which some allege causes a variety  of 
     health problems.
     
       Using a new "significant statistical association" standard,  the 
     Veterans  Advisory  Committee on Environmental Hazards  last  fall 
     reviewed  31  studies  and  their  relationship  to  non-Hodgkin's 
     lymphoma   and  reported  that  while  no  association  could   be 
     definitively made, it could not rule out the possibility."
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 12
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
       VA  officials announced they would immediately begin to identify 
     and  re-open claims filed by veterans who served in Southeast Asia 
     and  who  alleged that their development of non-Hodgkins  lymphoma 
     resulted  from Agent Orange exposure.   VA years ago established a 
     policy  that  makes  it unnecessary for veterans to  prove  actual 
     exposure  as  long  as their service record  validated  in-country 
     Vietnam service.
     
       Derwinski  said  VA will extend as much latitude as possible  to 
     award  health-care services to Vietnam veterans who believed their 
     health  was  affected  by  Agent Orange  exposure.   VA  has  also 
     conducted   a   program  offering  free   comprehensive   physical 
     examinations to veterans.   More than 230,000 have taken advantage 
     of  the program and a registry containing their addresses will  be 
     used to make follow-up contact concerning Derwinski's ruling.
     
       On May 16, the advisory committee is scheduled to review studies 
     dealing  with  herbicide  exposure and another  group  of  cancers 
     including soft-tissue sarcoma, and porphyria cutanea tarda, a non-
     fatal  liver  ailment.   Subsequent  meetings will  address  other 
     health issues.
     




































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 13
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                     The DVA's Orange Colored Glasses
     
                       Input By: Martin H. Kroll
                   NAM VETs Agent Orange Section Editor
                 Fort Mountain BBS - Chatsworth, Ga. 30705
                              (404) 695-8703
                     
                          VETERANS ADMINISTRATION
                    DEPARTMENT OF MEDICINE AND SURGERY
                          WASHINGTON, D.C.  20420
     
     
                              March 14, 1990
     
     Mr. Martin H. Kroll
     Rt. 7, Box 7702
     Chatsworth, Ga. 30705
     
     Dear Mr. Kroll,
     
          Your letter to the President regarding Agent Orange was 
     recently referred to this office for response.  You mentioned that 
     you and a friend were speculating whether the President would 
     personally read and reply to your letter.  We have no way of 
     knowing whether the President actually saw your correspondence.  
     Thousands of letters are received at the White House daily.  It 
     would be impossible for the President, with all his respons-
     ibilities, to read more than a handful of these letters.  A large 
     volume of mail is referred to the department or agency with the 
     experience and expertise to respond substantively to each inquiry.  
     Letters are not referred because of any lack of interest by the 
     President or his staff but rather to ensure that the best and most
     meaningful response possible is prepared.
     
          You obviously are totally convinced that Agent Orange damaged 
     your health and caused medical problems for most, if not all, 
     Vietnam veterans.  You declared that you are "disgusted with the 
     way our Government has handled the Agent Orange issue" presumably 
     because our actions do not correspond with your beliefs.  
     Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) actions on this issue are 
     based on scientific evidence.  Despite what you may have heard or 
     read, scientific investigations have not demonstrated that 
     veterans have medical problems that were caused or worsened by 
     exposure to Agent Orange.
     
          Notwithstanding the lack of evidence that Agent Orange has 
     caused health problems, VA has developed a multi-faceted program 
     to respond to the concerns expressed by many Vietnam veterans. 
     Since 1978, we have offered a free comprehensive medical exami-
     nation to all Vietnam veterans who are worried about the possible 
     long-term health effects of exposure to herbicides.  This 
     examination is provided at VA health care facilities across the 
     Nation.  More than two hundred thousand Vietnam veterans have 
     participated in our examination program, known as the VA Agent 
     Orange Registry.
     
          Many of the veterans participating in the examination program 
     have questions regarding Agent Orange.  Scientific research is 
     essential to respond to these concerns.  For many years, VA has 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 14
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     been pursuing studies, providing financial assistance for 
     investigations by others, and reviewing and analyzing scientific 
     literature on this subject.  While some questions have been 
     essentially answered, others persist.  Studies of the possible 
     effects of herbicides on Vietnam veterans are ongoing and will 
     continue into the twenty-first century.
     
          We recognize that examinations and research, while of 
     critical importance, are not enough to meet the needs of some 
     Vietnam veterans with serious health problems.  Va provides 
     priority medical treatment to Vietnam veterans for disabilities 
     possibly, but not necessarily, related to Agent Orange exposure.  
     Thousands of Vietnam veterans have received necessary care under 
     this priority program.
     
          VA also provides disability compensation to many Vietnam 
     veterans.  To be eligible for these monthly payments, a veteran 
     must have an injury or illness that was incurred in or aggravated 
     by military service.
     
          You urged a "massive" Agent Orange publicity campaign via 
     television, radio, newspapers, and magazines.  It is our opinion 
     that there has been a great deal of publicity on this issue during 
     the past decade.  Unfortunately, much of the information was 
     erroneous or misleading.  VA has taken steps, where possible, to 
     correct or clarify this misinformation.  We have produced a 
     newsletter (450,000 copies of the most recent issue were printed), 
     a fact sheet series, several videotapes, an exhibit, several 
     monographs, a multi-volume report of herbicide scientific 
     literature (fourteen volumes published to date), and a non-
     technical language synopsis of scientific literature.  In addi-
     tion, a number of articles by VA scientists have been published in 
     professional journals.  Notice of meetings of our advisory 
     committees are published well in advance of the meeting dates to 
     allow ample public participation.  Enclosed are copies of our most 
     recent newsletter, fact sheet series, and poster.  While we may 
     not be doing as much as you might like, we think that we are doing 
     a great deal.
     
          Our public information campaign is somewhat restrained by the 
     lack of conclusive scientific evidence linking the problems of 
     Vietnam veterans to Agent Orange.  It would be a serious 
     disservice to Vietnam veterans if we would abruptly launch a 
     nationwide campaign in view of the unproven dangers of Agent 
     Orange.  On the other hand, if research efforts reveal that Agent 
     Orange is causing health problems, we would be obligated to 
     communicate this information expeditiously.
     
          Your idea regarding providing an exemption for Vietnam 
     veterans from a percentage of Federal income taxation is very 
     interesting.  This proposal would compensate all Vietnam veterans 
     for "pain and suffering due to exposure to Agent Orange."  Unlike 
     the VA disability compensation program, under the plan that you 
     propose, veterans who have no medical problems whatsoever would 
     benefit along with those with severe disabilities.  In fact, those 
     who are the most prosperous economically and therefore pay a great 
     deal of income tax seem to receive the greatest benefit from your 
     proposal.  Veterans who are in poor health tend to suffer 
     financially as well.  Since Congress must approve any changes in 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 15
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     the tax laws, you may wish to share your ideas with your Senators 
     and your Representatives.
     
          We can certainly understand your feelings that Vietnam 
     veterans have been shortchanged.  Many people who share this view 
     have written to us during the past few years.  Please be assured 
     that VA is doing all it can to help these veterans.  Indeed, 
     service to America's veterans and their survivors is our only 
     mission.
     
     Sincerely yours,
     
     
     Lawrence B. Hobson, M.D., Ph.D.
     Director, Environmental Medicine Office
     
     Enclosure
     









































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 16
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

          
          
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     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 17
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                         A Veterans' Clear Window
     
                            By: Martin H. Kroll
                   NAM VETs Agent Orange Section Editor
                 Fort Mountain BBS - Chatsworth, Ga. 30705
                              (404) 695-8703
     
     April 2, 1990
     
     Martin H. Kroll, Sr.                    REFER TO - 10B/AO
     Rt. 7 Box 7702
     Chatsworth, Ga. 30705
     
     
     Lawrence B. Hobson, M.D., Ph.D.
     Director, Environmental Medicine Office
     Veterans Administration
     Department of Medicine and Surgery
     Washington, D.C. 20420
     
     Dear Dr. Hobson,
     
          Thank you for your reply to my letter addressed to President 
     Bush.  I also appreciate the enclosures that were included.  I 
     understand that the President is a very busy person and letters 
     such as mine are referred to the appropriate departments for 
     response.
     
          You stated "Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) actions on 
     this issue (Agent Orange) are based on scientific evidence.  
     Despite what you may have heard or read, scientific investigations 
     have not demonstrated that veterans have medical problems that 
     were caused or worsened by exposure to Agent Orange."  It seems to 
     me and many Vietnam veterans that the VA's most difficult problem 
     with completing a so called "scientific investigation" lies not 
     with the facts of the toxicity of Agent Orange, but rather with 
     the alleged inability to verify by military records whether or
     not individual veterans were exposed to Agent Orange.
     
          There has been much scientific evidence released proving the 
     link between herbicide exposure and lymphatic cancer, and also 
     other health problems.  The National Cancer Institute and the 
     University of Kansas report that farmers and workers exposed to 
     herbicides are 600% more likely to contact lymphatic than people 
     who were not exposed,(HOAR, 86).  The Environmental Protection 
     Agency (EPA) considers "any" exposure to dioxin toxic to humans, 
     (NIOSH Bulletin # 40, 1984).  "MILHAM, 82" determined that 
     exposure to herbicides may increase the risk of several serious 
     cancers.  "SHARON RICE-GRANT,86" determined that over 30% of women 
     Vietnam veterans who had pregnancies also had one or more mis-
     carriages or stillbirths.  This study also revealed that "more" 
     than 50% of the women Vietnam veterans have had a hysterectomy!
     
          The list goes on and on... and of course we are expected to
     believe that none of this information is based upon scientific 
     evidence and that the Doctors and Scientists involved in these 
     studies did not know what they were talking about.
          The facts are in!  There is evidence to show that the
     chemical companies and the government knew about the potential 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 18
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     health hazards of dioxin as early as 1957.  Nine years later the 
     government undertook a massive spraying program in Vietnam.  
     Military and Civilian personnel in Vietnam were exposed to dioxin 
     and other chemicals through multiple exposure routes, e.g., 
     inhalation and dermal exposure from spray and spraying drift; 
     ingestion of contaminated food and water; inhalation from burning 
     brush which would likely release dioxin by pyrolysis of 2,4,5-t; 
     breathing and ingestion of contaminated dust; and in some cases, 
     the use of discarded pesticide drums for stoves, heaters, showers 
     and storage containers.
     
          I would also like to refer you to two articles in the 
     February 1990 issue of the American Legion Magazine.  "Bad 
     Science", and "Speak No Evil".  I find it abhorrent that the VA 
     and the CDC have contradicted themselves so many times and have 
     hidden "facts" from the public.  I find it even more disgusting 
     that the VA's Advisory Committee on Environmental Hazards has 
     established a set of criteria for judging studies that differ from 
     the criteria used by other federal regulatory agencies such as the 
     EPA and the International Agency for Research on Cancer, whose 
     rules have served as models throughout the U.S. and the rest of 
     the world!  To top it all off, we now find that the committee 
     includes a variety of experts that were hired by the industry to 
     testify against people injured by dioxin.  The committee's methods 
     of "subtracting" four recent positive and valid studies for non-
     Hodgkins lymphoma and herbicides are no more than dastardly deceit 
     and an attempt to cover up the truth!
     
          It was also your opinion that the VA has done a great deal of 
     publicity on this issue in the past decade.  As proof, you 
     included a copy of the most recent Agent Orange newsletter of 
     which 450,000 copies were printed.  Based upon the fact that over 
     3,000,000 veterans served in Vietnam that would only be 1 copy for 
     each 6 & 2/3rds veterans that served in Vietnam, with absolutely 
     no copies left over for other interested civilians.  Massive 
     publicity?  Not hardly!  I am a Vietnam veteran myself and have 
     "never" seen any of the material that you sent.  I do, however, 
     appreciate the nice poster urging Vietnam Vets to contact the 
     nearest VA Medical Center if they are concerned about Agent 
     Orange.  It now hangs in my office and I also hung your letter 
     right below it and highlighted in "Orange" the section where you 
     stated that "scientific investigations have not demonstrated that 
     veterans have medical problems that were caused or worsened by 
     exposure to Agent Orange." Nice bit of "irony" isn't it?
     
          You stated "if research efforts reveal that Agent Orange is 
     causing health problems, we would be obligated to 3. communicate 
     this information expeditiously."   What kind of "can of worms" 
     would this open for the government?  Obviously research efforts 
     have revealed that Agent Orange causes health problems but yet we 
     have no official word from the government.  In light of the recent 
     small victory by Vietnam veterans that linked Vietnam duty with 
     lymphoma but stopped short of admitting that Agent Orange was the 
     cause, I would like to point out that the fire is just now 
     beginning to heat up & the battle is far from over.  I would urge 
     everyone in a position of trust and authority to uncover the truth 
     and be done with it.  Let's get on with the business of taking 
     care of those veterans that served in Vietnam and their families.
     
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 19
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

          It was interesting to note that you felt that my proposal to 
     provide an exemption for Vietnam veterans was not quite fair to 
     those veterans that are in poor health.  It is those veterans that 
     the VA and the government should be taking care of with no 
     questions asked.  You suggested that those veterans that are 
     economically prosperous seem to receive the greatest benefit.  
     Does this imply that you do not feel that prosperous veterans 
     should be compensated for the years of rashes, illnesses, mental 
     anguish, ruined clothing from cortisone cremes etc., and the 
     expenses of various over the counter medications that they 
     otherwise would not have had?  You were correct though to point 
     out that this was not your ball park and I may wish to share these 
     ideas with my Senators and Representatives.
     
          Enclosed, you will find a copy of a letter I received from 
     the VA dated Oct 11, 1972.  I served in Vietnam in 66-67 and it 
     was in Vietnam that I experienced my first skin problems.  My 
     medical records should attest to the fact that I had rawness of 
     the skin after spraying of the perimeter of our camp.  I was given 
     medicated creams from the dispensary and continued to have this 
     problem for many years mostly during the hottest part of the year.  
     I never had a skin problem before going to Vietnam.  I learned to 
     live with this problem after never hearing from the VA although I 
     sent in a notice of disagreement with their findings and never 
     received the requested information pertaining to an appeal.  Tests 
     have shown that my hearing has become progressively worse over 
     several years and I now have a sore that comes and goes on the 
     back of my left thigh.  I am concerned about Agent Orange, my own 
     health, the well-being of my family, my brother and sister 
     veterans, and the integrity of this great nation.  Also enclosed 
     is an ASCII Graphic that may interest you...
     
     Sincerely yours,
     
     Martin H. Kroll, Sr.
     Vietnam Veteran
     






















     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 20
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                        Agent Orange Grant Awarded
     
                           Input by: Robert Knee
          -=[*] DE OPRESSO LIBER [*]=-  5th S.F. GRP. (1:105/204)
     
                Vietnam Veterans Agent Orange Victims, Inc. 
                   and The Bradie Schieb Children's Fund
                               Orlando, FL.
     
     Amount Awarded:                  $101,800 (9/19/89)
     Area of Service:                  Nationwide
     Contact Person:                   Frank McCarthy (800) 842-2946
     
       Vietnam Veterans Agent Orange Victims (VVAOVI) Inc.,  is awarded 
     funding  for a program to provide medical  services,  particularly 
     corrective  surgical  services,  for children of Vietnam  Veterans 
     born with medically correctable disabling conditions.  VVAOVI will 
     seek  out  such children and secure medical assessments  of  their 
     conditions,  and  where appropriate,  and in conjunction with  the 
     Brandie  Schieb  Children's Fund,  arrange for surgical and  other 
     medical  services  which will enable those children to  live  more 
     fully  productive  lives.  The costs of medical services  will  be 
     funded throught the AOCAP grant, with a small amount of additional 
     funding being provided for operating the program.
     
     Duration of project:               One year
     
































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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
                 W e   k n o w   T H I S   l a n g u a g e
     =================================================================

                           Vietnam Era Glossary
     
                        From: Vietnam Shared, 1987
                     Produced by: Operation Vets Haven
                          Saranac Lake, New York
     
                         Input by: G. Joseph Peck
                         NamVet's Managing Editor
                         Vetlink #1 Pittsfield, MA  
                              (413) 443-6313
     
     AO:  Area of Operation(s)
     
     AGENT  ORANGE:   (Dioxin)  was a defoliant used during much of the 
     Vietnam  War  that was sprayed by aircraft during Operation  Ranch 
     Hand.   The purpose of this agent was to denude the jungle so that 
     the  enemy  had  fewer places to hide.   Late in the  War  it  was 
     discovered  that  the  primary ingredient of Agent  Orange  was  a 
     chemical  known as dioxin,  which has been determined to be one of 
     the most toxic substances known to mankind.   Many veterans of the 
     war  were sprayed while in-country with the stuff,  only to return 
     home  later to discover that they had many symptoms of severe  and 
     oftentimes   fatal  illness.    The  military  stopped  using  the 
     substance,  but  over  the  years  there has  been  found  a  high 
     incidence  of  mortality among Vietnam  Veterans,  accompanied  by 
     severe  physical and mental aberrations.   There is also  evidence 
     that  shows there is a higher incidence of birth defects and brain 
     damage among the children of Vietnam Veterans, suggesting that the 
     effects of this substance are passed on to succeeding generations.  
     Class  action  lawsuits have been filed against the US  Government 
     and  the  chemical  companies that produced the  stuff.   While  a 
     settlement has been proposed, it is most certainly not adequate to 
     address  the problem.   As of this time (11/87),  neither the U.S. 
     Government  nor  the Veteran's Administration,  nor  the  chemical 
     companies  are  admitting liability or taking  responsibility  for 
     this  matter,  which  has let many to state that the  Vietnam  War 
     continues to be a legacy for children of Vets, and as such the War 
     is still being waged.
     
     AK-47:  7.62mm NATO Automatic Weapon used by the Viet Cong and the 
     NVA against U.S. Armed forces and the ARVN during the Vietnam War.  
     Mainly of Chinese manufacture, though the USSR also made them.
     
     AMERASIAN:   Descendants  of US military personnel and Vietnamese, 
     often shunned and scorned by their native people.
     
     APC:   Armored  Personnel  Carrier.   A vehicle  for  transporting 
     ground troops, similar in construction to a tank.
     
     ARM:  Armored; as in division, or equipment such as tanks, etc.
     
     AWOL:  Absent Without Official Leave.
     
     ARVN:   Army  of  the  Republic of Vietnam (South)  allied  to  US 
     forces.
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
     BAT:  Battalion
     
     BATT:  Battery
     
     BODY  BAG:   A black or grey plastic bag used to collect  casualty 
     remains for the purpose of shipping to either GRC, or for shipment 
     stateside.  See: GRC.
     
     BODY COUNT:  The means by which winning battles was determined, as 
     opposed to conquering territory,  or capture.   The Vietnam War of 
     Attrition.  To COMMAND,  success was determined on the daily body-
     count.
     
     BUSTING  CAPS:   An  expression used by some troops to fire  their 
     weapons, oftentimes as a prelude to a mission or firefight.
     
     CAV:   Cavalry,  as in the 1st.  Cav.,  well-known combat force in 
     Vietnam (US)
     
     CHARLIE:  Also known as Charles,  VC,  Gook,  etc.   Refers to the 
     Viet Cong, enemy of US and ARVN forces.  See: Gook.
     
     CHOPPER:  see Huey
     
     CIL:   Central Identification Laboratory located in Hawaii.   This 
     laboratory   was   set   up  for  the   purpose   of   identifying 
     unrecognizable  soldier remains,  that were war  casualties.   The 
     laboratory  is still functioning under military auspices,  for the 
     purpose   of  identifying  remains  that  are  returned  from  the 
     Vietnamese Government.  See: GRC.
     
     CINCPAC:  Commander in Chief Pacific
     
     CINCPACFLT:  Commander in Chief Pacific Fleet
     
     CO:  Commanding Officer
     
     COMUSMACV:  Commander, U.S. Military Assistance Command, Vietnam
     
     CORPSMAN:  See: MEDIC
     
     CP:  Command Post
     
     DEROS:  Date eligible for return from overseas.
     
     DMZ:   Demilitarized Zone.   The area of demarcation between North 
     Vietnam  and South Vietnam,  established at the Geneva Accords  of 
     1954, that effectively divided Vietnam in two.
     
     DP:  Displaced Person
     
     FB:  Firebase
     
     FSB:  Fire Support Base
     
     FIREFIGHT:   Engaging the enemy in battle,  usually at night.   It 
     could  be  light or heavy,  depending on enemy troop strength  and 
     armament.
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
     FREE FIRE ZONE:   A place where anyone (from the US point of view) 
     was considered the enemy and would freely be fired upon as if they 
     were  the enemy.   Anything that moved could and did get killed in 
     this  zone.   Politics and command level decisions determined Free 
     Fire Zones.
     
     FNG.: F*ckin'  New Guy,  also "Cherry,  Newbie,  New Meat,  etc.", 
     usually  a term of derision applied to new recruits just  assigned 
     to  Vietnam,  who had not learned the ropes yet.   Often New  Guys 
     were assigned to POINT, if they were combat troops.  Mortality was 
     high.   If  the New Guy survived his first six to eight weeks,  he 
     lost his "cherry", and was considered a vet.
     
     FRAG:  Fragmentation Grenade.  Also, to Frag. i.e. to kill another 
     by use of this grenade.   After a time,  the term came to mean the 
     process  by  which  one soldier (or  group)  would  kill  another, 
     usually  of higher rank,  for improprietous behavior.   The victim 
     was usually an officer who, usually inexperienced,  endangered the 
     lives  of  his men.   Other means of "justifiable"  homicide  also 
     constituted fragging;  so-called "Friendly Fire"  situations could 
     also  have been cover-ups for fragging incidents.   Fraggings were 
     almost invariably fatal, and left little evidence.
     
     FRIENDLY FIRE:  Usually an accidental situation in which US troops 
     fired  upon their own men,  as a result sometimes of the orders of 
     higher  command  that  could not read their grid  maps  correctly. 
     Inexperienced  officers  (Ninety  Day Wonders)  on more  than  one 
     occasion,  caused  casualties because of their inexperience.   The 
     situation was by no means rare, and many men died as a result.
     
     GOOK:   (Charlies,  VC,  NVA.   see:  CHARLIE)  a  derogatory term 
     applied to the enemy.  It was also used to describe any Vietnamese 
     person  whose  loyalty was in question or who was considered  less 
     than human.
     
     GRC:   Graves Registration Company,  attached to the Quartermaster 
     Corps,  whose  primary responsibility was to prepare dead soldiers 
     (tag & bag) to be returned home for burial.   Two major facilities 
     existed,  one  in  Saigon,  and the other in Da Nang.   This  very 
     unpopular  group of men cleaned,  embalmed,  and identified  fatal 
     casualties  and otherwise took care of details in this connection, 
     in  order  that as many remains as possible were returned home  to 
     their  families.   GRC had access to the best professionals in the 
     field,  including  but  not  limited  to,  Pathologists,  Forensic 
     Experts, Toxicologists,  Identification personnel,  as well as the 
     "line embalmers".  This was a very much thankless job,  though the 
     participants  usually  were  proud  of their work  and  had  great 
     compassion for it.  Their story is one that is rarely told.
     
     GREEN BERET:  See SF.
     
     GRUNT:  A line soldier or Marine who "humped the boonies".  Combat 
     or field soldier.
     
     GUNSHIP:   An  HU1B  Huey  helicopter,  outfitted  with  armament, 
     specially designed for ground assault.
     
     HANOI  HILTON:   Considered  the most famous,  and worst,  of  the 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 24
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     Prisoner of War Camps in all of Southeast Asia.
     
     HO  CHI MINH TRAIL:   A marvel of Vietnamese logistics.   This was 
     the main supply route by which the NVA moved men and material into 
     the  south.   This  route  passed from the North  in  a  southerly 
     direction  through  portions of Laos and Cambodia into the  tunnel 
     complexes  of  South  Vietnam for distribution of arms  and  other 
     material  to  the  Viet Cong already in place.   Named  after  the 
     founder of the People's Republic of Vietnam (North)
     
     HOOTCH:  Also spelled Hooch.  A dwelling.   Some soldiers lived in 
     these.  Of very simplistic design,  usually of materials that were 
     found on-hand.
     
     HUEY:   Helicopter  manufactured by Bell Co.   The mainstay of the 
     Vietnam   War,   and  was  used  extensively  in  practically  all 
     applications; whether for troop movements, or as gunships,  or for 
     medivac.   Literally the workhorse of the jungle.   See:  DUSTOFF, 
     SLICK, MEDIVAC.
     
     HQ:  Headquarters
     
     IN-COUNTRY:  Welcome to Vietnam!
     
     KIA:  Killed in Action
     
     LAAW:   Light  Anti-Armour  Weapon,  usually  used once  and  then 
     disposed of.
     
     LBJ:   Long  Binh  Jail.   A place of incarceration for  "naughty" 
     military personnel.
     
     LOACH:  Light observation chopper.
     
     LP:  Listening Post
     
     LRRP:  Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol
     
     LZ:  Landing Zone.   A place where a Huey or Chopper would deliver 
     troops.  The LZ might be  "hot"  or "cold".   A hot LZ was a place 
     in which the enemy was in control and was about to be engaged, and 
     was  extremely  dangerous.   Conversely,  a  cold LZ  usually  was 
     relatively safe.  Names were usually assigned to LZ,  or numerical 
     designation.
     
     MACV:   Military  Assistance  Command Vietnam.   Based in  Saigon.  
     Command operated headquarters for all operations in country.
     
     MASH:  Mobile Army Surgical Hospital
     
     M-14:  Common automatic rifle used primarily by the Marines.  Used 
     7.62mm. NATO ammunition.  Very accurate but heavy weapon primarily 
     because  it employed wood stock and handgrips.   Very durable  gun 
     that rarely broke down in the field.
     
     M-16:   Also  called a Mattie Mattel gun,  because of its  plastic 
     stock  and  handgrips,  and smaller size as compared to the  M-14.  
     Originally  manufactured  by the Fairchild Corporation  and  later 
     produced  by Colt Industries.   US Air Force were the first of the 
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     Services to employ the gun,  with the Army following suit sometime 
     later  after the gun was modified somewhat.   Compared to  today's 
     version,  the "16 of the Vietnam War did tend to jam and,  on more 
     than one occasion, caused losses of life because of its mechanical 
     problems.   Yet,  the  gun  was lighter and easier to  carry,  had 
     relatively simple and fewer parts to maintain.  Uses the 5.56 NATO 
     ammunition,  and  was  capable  of  single,  semi-auto  and  fully 
     automatic use.   The gun was first developed in 1954.   The gun is 
     still  used  today in its upgraded versions.   Civilian  model  is 
     designated  the  AR-15,  which only operated in the  semiautomatic 
     mode.   The  newer  versions have been redesigned and the  jamming 
     problem eliminated.  It is now a highly thought of weapon.
     
     MAMA-SAN:   An  older  Vietnamese woman,  usually married,  and  a 
     mother, as in German, Frau; English,  Mrs..   Papa-San is the male 
     counterpart.
     
     MEDIC:   Soldier  trained in basic medical procedures,  who was in 
     the  field  to  take care of wounded combat troops and  who  often 
     treated  minor  illnesses  and sometimes not so  minor  illnesses.  
     Good  medics  were  prized  by the men in their  outfits  for  the 
     obvious  reasons.   There  were some medics so well  skilled  they 
     could  (and did)  perform surgery that civilian surgeons would not 
     attempt  until  they were well into their surgical residency  long 
     after  medical  school.   Navy  and Marine  versions  were  called 
     Corpsman.   Though  the medics were not trained anywhere near  the 
     degree as a full physician, they were often called "Doc"  by their 
     men.
     
     MEDIVAC:   A  Huey or Chopper designed to evacuate wounded  combat 
     troops,  or  the severely ill to medical facilities in the rear or 
     hospital ships.  
     
     MIA:  Missing in Action
     
     MOS:  Military Occupation Specialty.
     
     NCO:  Non-Commissioned Officer.
     
     NVA:  North Vietnamese Army.   The "regulars",  and usually better 
     trained than the VC, as well as better equipped.  The enemy.
     
     OD:  OD's were the green utility uniform often worn, as opposed to 
     camouflage dress.  Also olive drab.
     
     POINT:  Soldiers, one or two in number, that headed or advanced in 
     front of a column, squad, or in some cases a full company.   Their 
     duty was to "clear the way" for the safety of said column and spot 
     and  report intelligence on enemy movements in the  field.   Point 
     men  often  were FNG's (see FNG),  which is to say  inexperienced.  
     Point  men  would look for  mines,  antipersonnel  devices,  booby 
     traps,  and  the enemy.   The mortality rate was very  high.   You 
     became  a  point  man  usually by appointment by the  CO  or  your 
     Sergeant.  The appointment depended on your experience,  or rather 
     the  lack  of  it.   Some units,  though,  used  very  experienced 
     personnel in this position.
     
     POW:  Prisoner(s) of War.
     
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     PRC-25:   The  common  radio used for communications  in  Vietnam.  
     See: RTO
     
     PTSD:   Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.   A syndrome that affected 
     Vietnam  Veterans  after  their return stateside  that  manifested 
     symptoms of flashbacks, nightmares,  thought ideation,  confusion, 
     and dissociative reactions.   A syndrome that is still ongoing for 
     many vets to the present day.  It fortunately has a good prognosis 
     with proper treatment.
     
     PX:  Post Exchange.
     
     REMF:  Rear Echelon Motherf*cker.  See: STRACK
     
     ROKA:  Republic of Korea Army.  Allied to US Forces.   Very fierce 
     soldiers,  and  very accomplished in the Art of War.   Their Tiger 
     Division became very famous.
     
     ROTATION:  Servicemen were "rotated"  through their tours or duty.  
     Coming in and then leaving (after tour) was "being rotated".
     
     RPG:  Rocket Propelled Grenade
     
     RTO:   Radiotelephone  operator.   A soldier in a company or  unit 
     designated  to  maintain communications with proper  authority  by 
     radio usually.  His survival rate was poor because his antenna was 
     highly visible and usually an easy target.  2nd lieutenants (shake 
     & bakes,  ninety day wonders)  who were inexperienced often stayed 
     too  close to this soldier and wound up being a casualty  himself.  
     The model designation of the radio often was the PRC-25,  or known 
     as PRICK 25's.
     
     R & R:  Rest and recreation, also known as Rape & Riot.   A period 
     of  time  usually 10 days to two weeks in duration where  American 
     servicemen  got  time out from the War.   Normally,  each man  was 
     entitled  to  one  period of R &  R during his  tour  (there  were 
     exceptions).  Popular places for R & R includes Bangkok, Thailand, 
     The Philippines, Tokyo, Honolulu, New Zealand & Australia.   There 
     was  also in-country R &  R in such places as Cam Rahn  Bay.   The 
     goal  was women,  drink,  and fun;  and quite the dichotomy coming 
     from a combat zone.
     
     SAM:  Surface-to-Air Missile.
     
     SAPPER:   A soldier with special training in explosives and mines.  
     In  the War situation,  it is referred to VC and NVA personnel who 
     were  trained to infiltrate and attack American bases from within.  
     Usually  a  suicide mission on the part of the enemy who  utilized 
     explosives.   Sappers  also  came  from without  and  invaded  our 
     perimeter.
     
     SF:  Special Forces, aka: The Green Berets and Navy SEALS.   These 
     were  specially  trained  personnel who were  considered  in  some 
     military  quarters  to be elite,  by reason of their training  and 
     independence from conventional military units and lifestyle, which 
     did not please some elements of higher echelon command.  The Green 
     Berets (so noted because of their distinctive headgear)  and SEALS 
     were  trained in special guerilla insurgency and counterinsurgency 
     techniques, linguistics, medicine,  and cultural exchange.   Their 
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     medical  training  far exceeded that of the Medic,  and they  were 
     also  trained to live under just about any adverse conditions  and 
     apply   infiltration   techniques  to  achieve   their   missions.  
     Oftentimes  these men lived in villages with civilian personnel to 
     train  the  civilians  in  matters of community  services  and  in 
     defense of those communities.   Training of these men was commonly 
     at Ft. Bragg, and under the pall of secrecy, which further annoyed 
     the top brass.  But they were goo, especially in the early days of 
     the  Vietnam War when their standards were very  high.   President 
     John  Kennedy had a special fondness for the Green Berets and  was 
     largely  responsible  for  their  continuation  under  a  somewhat 
     hostile  military  command  structure.   Kennedy  encouraged  them 
     tremendously,  and  contributed  much  to  their  popularity  with 
     civilians,  as  did  Barry Sadler who,  in 1965-66,  wrote a  song 
     called  THE  BALLAD  OF THE GREEN BERET.   The Green  Berets  were 
     represented  at  Kennedy's  funeral in November  1963.   The  rank 
     status of most was that of non-commissioned officer.
     
     SHAKE & BAKES:   Also called 90-day-wonders.   These were officers 
     commissioned  as  2nd  Lieutenants,  who  graduated  from  Officer 
     Candidate  School (OCS)  or were commissioned from college.   They 
     were  poorly  trained,  as  there  was a severe  shortage  of  2nd 
     Lieutenants.   They  became "instant"  officers,  not given enough 
     time  for  proper training.   They often did not live  very  long, 
     usually as a result of their inexperience, or incompetence,  which 
     sometimes  caused  them  to be fragged by the  more  inexperienced 
     combat vet.  See: REMF, STRACK, FRAG, FRIENDLY FIRE.
     
     SLICK:  A huey used for transporting ground troops,  usually eight 
     in number.  Two M-60 machine guns were mounted on each side at the 
     doors.
     
     SPOOK:   Refers  to CIA personnel and military intelligence types, 
     who were involved in covert operations, usually in areas where the 
     US  was  not  supposed to be.   Examples are  Cambodia  and  Laos.  
     Mainly   they  gathered  intelligence,   but  would  also  conduct 
     missions.
     
     SPOOKY:   Also  known  as  PUFF THE  MAGIC  DRAGON.   An  aircraft 
     outfitted  with  special  guns that were capable of  firing  great 
     quantities  of  bullets  (some say in excess of  6000  rounds  per 
     minute)  that  were capable of hitting every square inch of ground 
     the size of a football field in approximately one minute.
     
     STRACK:  Refers to certain types of officers who were long on spit 
     and shine,  but not much on the concepts of the War or the men who 
     fought it.  These officers were not well liked because they seemed 
     to  be more concerned with military discipline and image than they 
     were  with  the  conditions  and morale of the  men  of  the  War.  
     Usually   these  officers  knew  very  little  about  the   actual 
     conditions  and  needs  of the combat or  support  soldier.   They 
     seemed to go out of their way to harass seasoned veterans.   Great 
     on the parade field, but that was about all.  See: REMF
     
     SHORT:   Term  applied  to a troop who was nearing the end of  his 
     tour  and was about to go home.   The closer that time  approached 
     the "short"  man would do just about anything to avoid a war zone.  
     Especially in the last 45 to 30 days or so.  This guy could become 
     very  superstitious  about  anything,  the closer his  time  came.  
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     There  are many instances where a man who was real short wound  up 
     dead, even on the day he was to rotate out.  See: TOUR
     
     TDY:  Temporary Duty Assignment.   TDY was used extensively in the 
     early  part of the War when we were acting in an "advisory"  role.  
     Personnel  in  other  parts of the world or stateside  often  were 
     "TDY"  to  Vietnam  when additional troops were necessary  without 
     arousing public suspicion or congressional concern.   TDY was also 
     used  as a means of assigning troops or others to areas that  were 
     technically or politically off-limits, in covert operations.
     
     TOUR:   A  tour  of duty in Vietnam lasted 12 months,  and was  so 
     called.   The  Marines tour was 13 months,  and the Air Force tour 
     was based on flight missions.   At the end of which you rotated or 
     DEROS'd home.
     
     TUNNEL RAT:   Strictly a volunteer soldier or grunt in a unit that 
     would  undertake  the business of flushing out the enemy  who  was 
     holed up in tunnels that were all over Vietnam,  especially in the 
     Iron Triangle Area of South Vietnam.   These tunnels ran for miles 
     and   often  contained  caches  of  weapons  and  contained  fully 
     underground  surgical and hospital facilities along with  barracks 
     and  intelligence  areas.   The survival rate for Tunnel Rats  was 
     less  than  1%.   The job was considered about the most  dangerous 
     duty  in the 'Nam.   Oftentimes the tunnel rat would go into these 
     places  equipped only with a handgun and a flashlight.   Since the 
     Vietnamese people are of such short stature,  and with underground 
     areas so small,  that the ideal tunnel rat was a man also of short 
     stature.  Big on guts though!
     
     VIETNAMIZATION:   A  policy  devised under the  administration  of 
     President  Richard M.  Nixon by which US Troops would gradually be 
     withdrawn  from Vietnam,  turning the War effort over to the South 
     Vietnamese  Government as the gradual withdrawal took place.   The 
     policy  ultimately  failed as the North Vietnamese  overran  South 
     Vietnam  which  culminated  in April of 1975  with  the  emergency 
     evacuation of Saigon of both military and civilian personnel,  not 
     to  mention  many citizens that fled the country later  in  boats.  
     Thus  the  term Boat-people.   Many of these citizens perished  in 
     their escape attempts.  Those that did survive, ultimately settled 
     in the United States.
     
     WIA:  Wounded in Action
     
     XO:  Executive Officer
     













     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 29
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                     Remember from YOUR tour of Duty?
     
           Messages in VIETNAM_VETS International Echo To/From:
                               Jim Hildwine
                              Larry Magnello
                                Mike Harris
                              Lefty Frizzell
     
     From: Jim Hildwine
     To: All
     
     Do any of you remember any of the following during you tour with 
     the Army
     
     1.  Getting up at O Dark Thirty for that famous morning formation 
         in the dark.. i.e 5:30 am... (For you older folks, they don'nt 
         do it any more)
     2.  Saturday moring inspections?
     3.  Ye old CMMI Team? (Head Hunters!, caused many a down fall of     
         Company Commanders as well as Motor Sgt's)
     4.  The crap before the annual IG.. Now called the AIG..
     5.  Being paid ONCE a month, and for E-3's and below in the 
         sixties it was less then $100.00 a month (Me was 99.37 before 
         the deductions.
     6.  Your very frist day in "Basic Training"?  Now who can forget 
         that day? Remember your weapons serial number.. Try you will.
     7.  Remember these? There not used any more.. RA, US (god love 
         em), ER's, and last but least NG (Where is Quale?)
     8.  Your very frist KP?  
     9.  Any one out there remember your "Welcome" to the 90th 
         Replacment Bn at Long Binh?  Remember the lousy chow, got even 
         worse when you got to you new out fit.
     10. Remember being an FNG? or what FTA ment (For The Army!!!!) 
     11. Those famous words well spoken by your favorite NCO... Yea 
         wanna RE-UP???
     12. Day one in Nam, with only 364 to go.  What a Bummer!
     13. The weather girls name on AFVN TV at night... You know the one     
         with the mini skirt...?
     14. Remember what a "Star Light Scope" was?
     15. Anyone remember his buddy having a "Spider Monkey"?  God they     
         were the worst>>>>>>//.
     16. Does anyone remember the famous "Morning Report"... They don't     
         em any more.  Took em 30 years to find they really did't need 
         em.
     17. When "Mess Halls" were Mess Halls, and not called Dining     
         Facilities?
     18. Speaking of Food and Mess Halls remeber the following: SOS, 
         and corned beef, and all the eggs were cooked the same. 
         Overdone!.
     19. Remeber when you could write "Free" on you letter and send it     
         any were in the world for nothing?
     20. The feeling you had when you pulled a can of "Chopped Ham and     
         Eggs" out of the warm up pot? (Gross) (Many of them were on     
         M-60's to help feed the belt.
     21, The taste of C-ration instant Coffee... Ugh.. make that 
         double.
     22. Going to Mail call and not getting mail? 
     23. Being out in the boonies just waiting and talking about going     
         back to the land of Big Px's and round door knobs, and getting    
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 30
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

         "Dear Johned"?
     24. Your Very 1st Art 15? (some of us did'nt and some of us did)
     25. Remember the Following: 20's were Red, Ten's were Blue, and 
         one's were green. Ye old MPC..... the pennies, nickles, dimes 
         etc were the real thing.
     26. F&N Ginerale. Triple Ugh..... That stuff was just number 
         10,000.
     27. The Steambath...?
     28. When you found out "Slick" did'nt mean what you thought it 
         ment.
     29. The added addition to the "Body Count"?
     30. Anyone remember Sgt Major of the Army "WoolRidge"... 
     31. Remember the famous three songs of our time in Nam. 
         a. Leaving on a Jet Plane... You got that right.
         b. We gotta get out of this place... Thats for sure.
         c. Rain drops keep falling.... You get bet your sweet dupa on     
            that one.
     32. Getting to you new outfit, and the frist guy you meet in going     
         home the next day, and is from your home town....!
     33. The free steak dinner when you came home from Nam, and also 
         you now had to pay taxes to Uncle sam again.?
     34. Not shining your boots for one "WHOLE YEAR"""""""""""""
     35. Being told when you got to Nam you had to take a drivers test?     
         Now that is a joke.... Anyone remember those buses of theirs     
         (RVN)?
     36. Anyone remember "Silver Bullets" and the "No Sweat" Pill?
     37. What "LBJ" really stood for (Long Binh Jail) 
     
                         Add your own to the list?  
                       Federal Benefits?  Ask me!!!
     
                                  - Jim -
     
     From: Larry Magnello
           The Steel Valley BBS <HST & Lynx its PURRfect!> (1:237/500)
     To  : Jim Hildwine
     Subj: Remember?:reply
     
     No.# (38) The tropical candybar that you could throw to the 
               vietnamese and they would throw it back at you, but they 
               would keep your empty tin cans from your sea rations...
     No. #(39) The FREEDOM BIRD that flew away when you landed and it 
               dawned on you that you could not leave until you were 
               booked on one.
     No.# (40) The monkeys that would jump from your head onto another 
               head while you were smokingggg away..
     No.$ (41) The first time you prayed because you were in the bush 
               going to the bathroom squatting down and saying Oh God, 
               please don't let me die in this position.
     
     From: Mike Harris
           + T.M.E. + Coos Bay, OR 503/269-1935 (1:152/18) + (8:7700/0)
           The NETWORK - G rated FAMILY oriented (1:129/34)
     To  : All
     Subj: Jim's "Remember" list!
     
     #42  Remember the "Chicken Man" episodes?  A bit of humor in a 
          dark time.
     #43  Remember the Crown Royal "Tassel" being used to designate a 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 31
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

          shorttimer?
     #44  Remember the P-38 races?  I think we got a can of peaches 
          down to about 7 secs.  Remember the callous on your thumb 
          from opening so many cans?
     #45  Remember the brilliant one liners?  "A Dong saved is a Dong 
          earned!"
     #46  Remember the menagerie a flags on the bases, boats, tracks, 
          etc.  Oregon, California, Nebraska, Alabama, etc.  Each owner 
          a proud young man fighting for a cause.  (I still have mine 
          with shrapnel holes in it! Oregon)
     #47  Remember seeing your 1st "Red Snake" coming down out of 
          darkness on the horizon.  Then later seeing "Green Snakes" 
          coming up at you from the ground?
     #48  Remember Camp Alpha in Saigon?  Feeling like a migrant while 
          waiting to be processed somewhere?  
     #49  Remember NEVER "Popping a top" in Vietnam?  Better wait and 
          see it the guys after 7/69 had pop tops!  Always had the 
          opener close!
     #50  Remember searching for the Conex Box that you KNEW was full 
          of beer after the club had closed?  (I tried to steal on with 
          a forklift in Dong Tam and got caught!)
     #51  Remember the sweat running down all parts of your body as you 
          waited in line for your FREEDOM BIRD to take off?  No air on 
          and Remember not feeling totally at ease until you could not 
          longer see the coast of Vietnam?
      
      What makes me think that this numerical order will get messed up?
     
     Come on guys and gals! Let's get some more on here so we can all..
      
                                   REMEMBER!!!
                                                              MIKE
     
     
     From: Lefty Frizzell
           The Exec Washroom "ANet<>VetNet<>Qlink<>RIME Multinet Gate" 
     To  : Mike Harris
     Subj: Jim's "Remember" list!
     
     In a message of <Mar 30 13:33> Mike Harris (1:129/34) writes:
     
      MH>#48  Remember Camp Alpha in Saigon?  Feeling like a migrant 
      MH>while waiting to be processed somewhere?  
     
     Remember the guy who stole your bags at Camp Alpha?  And claimed 
     that his bag had the name "FRIZZELL" on it in letters 6 inches 
     tall?
     
      MH>#49  Remember NEVER "Popping a top" in Vietnam?  Better wait 
      MH>and see it the guys after 7/69 had pop tops!  Always had the 
      MH>opener close!
     
     Still have my church key.  My daughter looks at it as if it were a 
     civil war musket.. (Daddy, you mean they didnt even have pop tops 
     back then??)
      
      MH>#50  Remember searching for the Conex Box that you KNEW was 
      MH>full of beer after the club had closed?  (I tried to steal on 
      MH>with a forklift in Dong Tam and got caught!)
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 32
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

      
      MH>#51  Remember the sweat running down all parts of your body as 
      MH>you waited in line for your FREEDOM BIRD to take off?  No air 
      MH>on and Remember not feeling totally at ease until you could 
      MH>not longer see the coast of Vietnam?
     
     Lefty
     



















































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 33
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
               V e t e r a n   B e n e f i t s   &   I n f o
     =================================================================

                         VA STUDY BENEFIT REFORMS
     
                          Input by: Jim Hildwine
                 NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor
                    VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47
                              Shady Side, Md
     
          Washington  D.C.,  Feb 28,  -  Secretary of Veterans  Affairs 
     Edward  J.  Derwinski  said today that the Department of  Veterans 
     Affairs  (VA)  will  soon  complete work on a package  of  benefit 
     reforms  that  would eliminate inequities and  inconsistencies  in 
     eligibility  criteria  for VA health-care services and  disability 
     payments.
          Derwinski   said   he  wanted  to  be  sure  there   was   no 
     misunderstanding  that VA intended to scale back current benefits.  
     "What we are doing,"  Derwinski said,  "is identifying those areas 
     that by any definition are patently unfair.   Our work is aimed at 
     improving access to the health-care system and correcting numerous 
     imbalances in eligibility criteria."
          Examples  Derwinski  provide included equalizing  payment  of 
     benefits  to surviving spouses of disabled veterans.   In the only 
     VA benefit program now based on a veterans military rank,  current 
     law  delivers  monetary benefits to surviving spouses of  disabled 
     generals  and admirals nearly 1 1/2 times greater than payments go 
     to  survivors of veterans discharged at the lowest enlisted ranks.  
     "That's  an  injustice and morally wrong,"  Derwinski  said.  "The 
     system needs to be fixed."
          Other areas of eligibility reform being examined by a VA task 
     force  would  like  the payment  of  service-connected  disability 
     compensation  directly  to  actual performance of  military  duty.  
     Current  law  provides benefits for almost all disabling  injuries 
     and  diseases  that occur during military service,  even  off-duty 
     accidents and health problems not traceable to military exposure.
          Also  under  scrutiny  are restrictions VA now  confronts  in 
     offering medical care to low-income veterans -- So-called Category 
     A  --  who are not eligible for outpatient care unless a physician 
     certifies that without it hospitalization will be required.  "That 
     is  an  illogical and costly restriction,  "Derwinski  said.   "We 
     ought  to  be able to see that veteran regularly and help  prevent 
     the kind of problems and make hospitalization necessary."
          Emphasizing  that the eligibility reform project was still in 
     development stage, Derwinski said, "We are not engaged in a scheme 
     to deprive veterans of what is rightfully theirs.  Furthermore, we 
     will ensure that any proposed changes wouldn't cut benefits to any 
     veteran  now  receiving them;  any increases would go into  effect 
     immediately."  Derwinski  said  he would continue his practice  of 
     meeting with veterans organizations leaders to discuss the reforms 
     and proposed legislative changes.
     






     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 34
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     VA CLAIMS PROCESSING STILL PLAGUED BY STAFFING SHORTAGES APPLEGATE 
     CALLS FOR PERFORMANCE TURNAROUND
                          Input by: Jim Hildwine
                 NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor
                    VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47
                              Shady Side, Md
     
       WASHINGTON  --  File a claim and wait a minimum of three months. 
     That is what three out of four veterans who apply for compensation 
     benefits from the VA can expect.  Further,  the likelihood that an 
     error will be made during the process continues to increase.
     
       Rep. Douglas Applegate (D-OH), during a house hearing last month 
     on Administration budget proposals,  called upon the VA to improve 
     its  productivity  in claims processing and expressed doubts  that 
     current  Administration  proposals  would  result  in  appreciable 
     "recovery"  in  the timely delivery of benefits.   He links  ever-
     lengthening delays in the consideration of veterans'  applications 
     for  benefits  to  the sharp decline in funding  for  VA  benefits 
     personnel over the past decade.
     
       The  latest available statistics show that only 26.7 percent  of 
     original  compensation claims are being processed within 90  days, 
     well below VA's minimum acceptable level of 35 percent.  Applegate 
     and other members of the House Veterans' Affairs Committee believe 
     that  at  least half of these claims should be processed within  a 
     90-day period.  At the moment, according to the VA, there are 381-
     thousand pending compensation and pension claims.
     
       "The  only sure way to substantially reduce this backlog is  for 
     the  Congress to provide sufficient funding for more warm  bodies, 
     plain  and  simple,"  said Applegate,  Chairman of  the  Veterans' 
     Affairs Subcommittee on Compensation, Pension and Insurance.   "My 
     concern  is no way should suggest that we don't have hard-working, 
     dedicated  employees in the field ...  there just aren't enough of 
     them," he said.
     
       Since  1982,  staffing levels for these employees in the VA's 58 
     regional  offices  who are responsible for processing  claims  for 
     disability,  death,  and  education  benefits  have fallen  by  25 
     percent,  from 4,832 to 3,664.   The Administration  has requested 
     only  seven additional full-time employees above the actual FY '90 
     level.
     
       Applegate  applauded  the  Administration  for  its  $32-million 
     proposal  (1 $13 million increase over FY '90)  for  modernization 
     initiatives,  which  includes  the implementation of an  automated 
     information  exchange between VA's benefits and medical divisions. 
     However, he cautioned that hardware alone is not the answer.
     
       "Over  the years,  modernization initiatives have been paid  for 
     with  staffing  cuts,  and I don't believe we should  permit  this 
     trend  to continue,"  says Applegate,  adding that "because of the 
     labor intensive nature of the claims processing system, you simply 
     cannot  reach  a level of automation that makes up for a  lack  of 
     people."
     
       Quality too is a problem.   Substantive errors in claims ratings 
     and authorizations have increased.
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 35
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
       "Program  complexity,  the difficulty of decision making and the 
     rate  of legislative change has never been greater ...  our  error 
     rates  have moved away from our goals in recent years,"  testified 
     Raymond H. Avent, VA's Acting Chief Benefits Director.
     
       Applegate  and  VA officials agree that there must be  increased 
     emphasis on employee training.   VA has announced plans to enhance 
     it's  training  activities for new veterans claims  examiners  and 
     claims  it  "will  explore"  the use of such  tools  as  computer-
     assisted training, videotaping, and video conferencing.
     
       "It  is  a great injustice to subject a veteran to  unreasonable 
     delays or any other impediments in obtaining benefits for which he 
     or  she might be eligible for having served in this nation's Armed 
     Forces.   This  injustice is especially compounded if we choose to 
     ignore  so  obvious  a solution --  people  --  to  reversing  the 
     downward  performance trend in benefits assistance in our regional 
     offices," said Applegate.
     







































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 36
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                          BACK PAY FOR VETERANS?
     
     From: HIRAM PEREZ            
     Subj: Back Pay For Veterans  
     
     There was a message dated 2-14-90 from Jim Hildwine concerning
     "Back Pay For Veterans."  In it, he stated that any veteran who
     served on active duty between 10-1-72 and 1-1-73 may be entitled
     to some back pay.  There were several addresses included to write
     to.  I thought you all might be interested in the reply I
     received.
     
                       DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
               U.S. ARMY FINANCE AND ACCOUNTING CENTER
                 Indianapolis, Indiana  46249-0865
     
     March 13, 1990
     
     Dear Sir:
     
       Your correspondence is returned.
     
       The article upon which your claim is bases is several years out
     of date.  Claims for the period cited in the article cannot be
     accepted as the statute of limitations for such claims has
     expired.  We are trying to identify the source of the "Veterans
     Affairs Newsletter" mentioned in your letter so that we may
     advise the editors accordingly.
     
       We regret that a more favorable response cannot be made to you
     regarding this matter.
     
                                   Sincerely,
     
                                   Carolyn J. Shaw
                                   Claims/Inquiries Division
                                   Centralized Pay Operations
     
     What I got was obviously a form letter since I've never heard of
     the "Veterans Affairs Newsletter" much less mentioned it in my
     inquiry.  Although I'm very sure Mr. Hildwine posted the original
     message in good faith, it appears to be a blind alley.  Sure hope
     no one was planning to retire on this windfall!
     
     From: Jim Hildwine
     To  : HIRAM PEREZ
     Subj: Back Pay For Veterans
     
       Hiram, the letter for back pay was passed to me by another 
     Veteran who is retired US Army as me.  At the time I received it, 
     I declined to send for the money as it was really not worth all 
     the time and effort for me, as I figured even if due, it would be 
     taxed, and would be less then forty dollars.  It was also 
     accompanied by a newspaper article with no date, plus a form to 
     send to your local accounting office ie. Army, Navy, AF, etc... 
     Sorry for the trouble, but it was passed to me in good faith. 
     Will get with my buddy and ask him what the deal is .. Tks for the 
     input.. 
     
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 37
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     Federal Benefits?  Ask me!!!
     
         - Jim -
     























































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 38
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                      Questions Often Asked Of The VA 
      
                          Input by: Jim Hildwine 
                 NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor 
                    VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47 
                              Shady Side, Md 
     
     VA EDITOR'S NOTE:  Following are representative questions answered 
     daily  by VA counselors.   Full information is available at any VA 
     office.
      
     Q...  Are  veterans  with a service-connected  disability  seeking  
     Department of Veterans Affairs medical care exempt from VA's Means  
     Test?  
     A... All veterans with service-connected illnesses or disabilities  
     are  provided  no-cost care regardless of income.   Certain  other  
     veterans  also  are exempt from the Means Test,  including  former  
     prisoners of war, veterans exposed to radiation or herbicides, and  
     veterans  of the Spanish-American War,  the Mexican Border  period  
     and World War I.  
      
     Q...   When   a   veteran  is  training  under  a  VA   Vocational  
     Rehabilitation Program,  does the receipt of subsistence allowance  
     cause any reduction in VA compensation payments?  
     A... No.  The veterans may receive both subsistence allowance and  
     disability compensation to which entitled.   In addition,  VA will  
     pay  for  the  cost of tuition,  books and fees  involved  in  the  
     rehabilitation program.  
     
     Q...   I  have a five-year level premium term insurance plan  with 
     the  Department of Veterans Affairs.   I would like to convert  to 
     one  of  the permanent plans.   Will I have to take a physical  to 
     meet certain health requirements?
     A...   The  five-year  level  premium term insurance plan  can  be 
     converted  without  meeting  health requirements at any  time  the 
     policy is in force.  However,  if the veteran is totally disabled, 
     it cannot be converted to an endowment type policy.
     
     Q...  Is it possible for a veteran to be entitled to a pension and
     to  compensation and receive both benefits from the Department  of 
     Veterans Affairs?
     A...  A veteran may be technically entitled to both benefits,  but 
     cannot be payed(sic) for more than one.
     
     Q...  May I use my VA home loan benefit to purchase a house for my 
     daughter?
     A...  No. The home must be the principal residence of the veteran.
     
     Q...   I am a divorced veteran.   Can my ex-wife force me to main-
     tain her as my beneficiary on my VA life insurance policy?
     A...  Under your Government Life Insurance contract,  you have the 
     right  to designate or change a beneficiary at any time.   You can 
     do  this without the knowledge or consent of your designated bene-
     ficiary  or  beneficiaries.   The United States Supreme Court  has 
     ruled that state courts cannot restrict your right to make changes
     to your beneficiary designation.  Any changes must be made by sub-
     mitting  your  written designation to the Department  of  Veterans 
     Affairs.
     
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 39
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     Q...   How do I apply for eligibility for VA medical treatment for 
     my service-connected disability while traveling overseas?
     A...  Prior to treatment,  authorization must be obtained from the 
     nearest American Embassy or Consulate if treatment is required for 
     a service-connected disability.
     
     Q...  What type of income should I report on my annual eligibility 
     verification report to continue my VA pension benefits?
     A...  Income from all sources must be reported.  VA will determine 
     what  sources and amounts will be counted and the amount of income 
     to be excluded.
     
     Q...   Can  I  get a release of liability from the  Department  of 
     Veterans  Affairs  if a non-veteran assumes my VA-guaranteed  home 
     loan?
     A...   If  the buyer meets with VA approval,  you may be  released 
     from liability.
     
     Q...   If  I encounter legal difficulties while purchasing a  home 
     using  my  VA home loan benefit,  will the Department of  Veterans 
     Affairs provide or pay for any legal assistance I may need?
     A...   No.   The  Department of Veterans Affairs does not  provide 
     legal  assistance or advice;  nor can the Department pay for legal 
     assistance  a veteran obtains to deal with troubles encountered in 
     the purchase or construction of a home.
      
                        Federal Benefits?   Ask me! 
      
                                  - Jim - 
     





























     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 40
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

         VA Rings in New Year With More Staffing, Money Shortages
                             By Ellen Rafshoon
                            --from VETS' FORUM
                     "Service To The Alaskan Veteran"
              State of Alaska - Division of Veterans' Affairs
                            Jan/Feb 1990 Issue
     
                         Input by: G. Joseph Peck
                          NamVets Managing Editor
                        VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                              (413) 443-6313
     
       Veterans  Affairs  Department  medical employees  will  find  no 
     relief  from mounting workloads caused by staffing shortages  this 
     year.
       Due  to automatic Gramm-Rudman-Hollings spending cuts and a  $94 
     million  miscalculation of personnel costs by the VA,  the  agency 
     plans to cut 2,000 employees from medical care rolls over the next 
     six months through attrition, said VA spokeswoman Donna St. John.
       In all, there is a $158 million shortfall, she said.
       Any  job vacancies not deemed to be of absolute necessity at the 
     VAs 172 medical centers will gto unfilled during that period,  she 
     said.   The  agency will therefore not get to the  congressionally 
     mandated  personnel ceiling of 194,720 for 1990.   The VA  employs 
     193,800 people.
       To  prevent any further reductions in staff,  the VA will divert 
     funds  from  its  equipment and construction  supply  accounts  to 
     medical  care  accounts,  St.  John said.   In addition,  the  $50 
     million  that  the VA received for drug-fighting efforts  will  be 
     funneled to medical centers.
       Meanwhile,  key  members of Congress,  including Senate Veterans 
     Affairs  Committee  chairman Alan  Cranston,  D-CA,  and  Majority 
     Leader  George Mitchell,  D-ME,  are asking President Bush for  an 
     emergency funding bill.
       The  group  called on Bush to provide $252 million in  emergency 
     aid.   An  emergency  funding bill passed last year baled out  the 
     agency with $1.3 billion.
       Due  to increases in special pay rates,  the increasing cost  of 
     health  benefits for employees ad the elimination of pay caps  for 
     certain  physicians,  the VA failed to account for $94 million  in 
     personnel costs as part of its 1990 budget request, St. John said.  
     Also,  medical  centers  are  forced to absorb 40 percent  of  the 
     January 1990 pay raise.
       "VA  cannot  continue to function on this  start-and-stop  basis 
     with  inconsistent  funding levels and inadequate commitment  from 
     the administration from year to year," senators warned.
       They  urged Bush to avoid last year's crisis by proposing a 1991 
     budget   of   $11.6   billion,   $743  million   more   than   the 
     administration's 1990 request. 
     









     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 41
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                Committee Calls for Seven Percent Increase
                           in Veterans' Spending
     
                          Input by: Jim Hildwine
                 NAM VETs Federal Benefits Section Editor
                    VetPoint 47 - FidoNet 1:321/203.47
                              Shady Side, Md
     
          WASHINGTON  ---  The  Committee on  Veterans'  Affairs  today 
     recommended  that  next year's budget for  veterans'  programs  be 
     increased  to  $32.5 billion,  a seven percent hike  in  projected 
     spending  for  the  current year.   The proposal now goes  to  the 
     Budget  Committee for consideration before it is submitted to  the  
     full House of Representatives.
     
          "This  is an entirely reasonable request considering the fact 
     that  the administration proposed a five percent increase above FY 
     '90 levels," said Committee Chairman G.V.  "Sonny"  Montgomery (D-
     MS),  "and  considering that under the Administration  plan,  even 
     though  it's  the  best we've seen in years,  there's  still  some 
     significant deficiencies which must not be ignored."
     
          "In particular,"  said Montgomery,  "there is a dire need for 
     additional direct care resources for our VA medical facilities,  a 
     need which has been well documented and with which I am confronted 
     daily  though  veterans'  letters which cross my desk.   If  these 
     recommendations  are accepted,  we will make considerable progress 
     toward  reducing  delays and backlogs for outpatient  and  nursing 
     care.  Further,  while the focus primarily has been on health care 
     in  recent  years,  we must not forget that our regional  benefits 
     offices   are  understaffed,   which  has  severely  hampered  the 
     Department's ability to deliver services in a timely manner.  This 
     simply cannot be allowed to continue," he said.
     
          The Committee's ranking Republican agreed.
     
          "Our  recommendation to the budget Committee should go beyond 
     an  amount  which merely halts the trend in declining services  to 
     the  veterans'  advocates  by requesting a budget  which  restores 
     access  to the system and reestablishes the high degree of quality 
     that veterans deserve," he said.
     
          The   Committee's  changes  to  the  Administration's  budget 
     proposal amount to an additional $729 million and 2,832 employees. 
     Among  the  highlights of the Committee budget as compared to  the 
     Administration proposal:
     
          - INCREASES staffing of benefits personnel by 577 in order to 
     improve quality, timeliness, and access to services
     
          -  RESTORES  finding for community nursing home care to  1988 
     levels  by adding $96 million.   This would allow 10 thousand more 
     veterans to receive contract care
     
          -  PROVIDES  an  additional  $69 million  and  990  full-time 
     employees  for outpatient care to allow for an additional one-half 
     million outpatient visits
     
          -   REJECTS  the  Administration's  proposed  legislation  to 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 42
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     increase  the mortgage indemnity fee and implement a down  payment 
     for home loan guarantees
     
          "If  the  defense  budget is reduced as a result of  the  so-
     called "Peace dividend"  from a thaw in the Cold War,  which seems 
     likely,  then  some of the savings most certainly should go to our 
     veterans. 
     
     Peace  worldwide  has  been built  upon  their  sacrifices,"  said 
     Montgomery.
     
















































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 43
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
                            M i s s i n g ! ! !
     =================================================================

                           Homecoming II Project
     
                              by: Rick Stolz
                       NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor
                    The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin
                               (414) 567-0437
     
     March 21, 1990
     
     The  U.S.  Army  has refused to confirm or deny that  the  remains 
     returned  and  identified as those of SFC Frank C.  Parrish  which 
     were buried in 1973 were again returned and buried in 1990.
     
     Many  of  us  could dig in our files and find that  SFC  Frank  C. 
     Parrish and his comrade, SFC Earl Biggs, were lost in 1968 near My 
     Tho,  Vietnam.   These  two were members of Company D,  Detachment 
     A411, 5th Special Forces Group. Their strike force was ambushed.
     
     After the fighting,  search parties were dispatched.  They learned 
     from  Vietnamese  that  Biggs and Parrish had  been  captured  and 
     executed. Both men were classified Missing in Action.  The Defense 
     Intelligence Agency further expanded the classification to include 
     an  enemy knowledge ranking of 1.  Category 1 indicates "confirmed 
     knowledge"  and includes all missing personnel who were identified 
     by the enemy by name,  identified by reliable information received 
     from   escapees   or  releases,   reported  by   highly   reliable 
     intelligence sources, or identified through analysis of all-source 
     intelligence.
     
     On January 17, 1972,  remains were reported in the vicinity of the 
     Parrish/Biggs action.  These remains were recovered and identified 
     in  June,  1973 as those of SFC Parrish and returned to  Parrish's 
     family for burial.
     
     Reports of other remains exhumed by local farmers in this vicinity 
     have been received, but no confirmation has been possible of their 
     identity. No positive word on Earl Biggs surfaced until 1989, when 
     his remains were returned and positively identified.
     
     Then in 1990, Parrish was buried...again.
     
     What  did  the Army return to Parrish's family in 1973  that  they 
     called  Frank Parrish?  Did they just not find all of him in 1973? 
     Or did they not really have an identifiable body in 1973?  Do they 
     now?
     
     As  the numbers of remains returned to U.S.  control has increased 
     over the past few years, tough questions are being asked about the 
     quality of identification of these remains.  Some of the cases are 
     very interesting.
     
     One  such  case  concerns a Vietnamese Air Force  CH34  helicopter 
     (serial #14-4653)  which crashed just inside Laos east of Tchepone 
     on November 30,  1968.  The crew of the helicopter was Vietnamese. 
     The  American  passengers  were  a team assigned  to  Command  and 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 44
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     Control North, MACV-SOG,  U.S.  Army Special Forces.  The team was 
     being  transported  to their reconnaissance mission area in  Laos. 
     Details of the mission were classified at that time,  and remained 
     classified as late as early 1990.
     
     American passengers on board the aircraft included:  Sgt.  Richard 
     A. Fitts, Sgt. Arthur E. Bader, Cpl. Gary R. LaBohn,  SSgt.  Klaus 
     D. Scholz, Maj.  Samuel K.  Toomey,  Cpl.  Michael H.  Mein,  1Lt. 
     Raymond C. Stacks.
     
     The  helicopter was struck by 37mm anti-aircraft fire and  crashed 
     in  a  mass  of flames and exploded.  The crash site is  in  heavy 
     jungle, near a stream.  No one was seen to leave the aircraft.  No 
     ground  search was initiated because the location was in a  denied 
     area.  Later  visual  search indicated that the pilot's hatch  was 
     open,  and his helmet was seen 25-30 feet from the helicopter.  No 
     survivors  were seen.  All the personnel aboard the aircraft  were 
     declared Missing in Action.
     
     In  March  1988,  the  area in which the  helicopter  crashed  was 
     excavated by a joint Lao/US technical team.  Remains were returned 
     to  the  Army  Central Identification  Laboratory  in  Hawaii.  On 
     January  3,  1990,  it  was announced that the remains of  Richard 
     Fitts had been positively identified from the remains recovered at 
     the  crash site.  According to Fitts'  parents,  the other remains 
     found  at the site were unidentifiable.   The Fitts family had  an 
     independent forensic pathologist examine the remains, and accepted 
     the identification.
     
     Barely  a  month later,  on February 8,  1990,  the Department  of 
     Defense  announced  that the remains of the rest of the  crew  had 
     been  positively identified.  These remains are to be buried in  a 
     mass grave at Arlington National Cemetery on March 23, 1990.
     
     Walter  and  Rosella Fitts have long been active in the effort  to 
     resolve  the  POW/MIA issue and do not intend to  stop  now.  They 
     believe that Americans are still alive in captivity, even if their 
     son is not among them.
     
     If  these remains are so incomplete as to contraindicate  positive 
     identification, it seems wrong to label these men "accounted for." 
     Even  recognizing the peace of mind some families may derive  from 
     such a decision,  it must also be noted that other families may be 
     subjected to even greater uncertainties and anguish if their loved 
     one  is "written off"  without specific evidence which applies  to 
     that   individual.   A   previous  mass  burial  exemplifies   the 
     artificiality of "peace" that is granted by false identification.
     
     In late February, 1968, members of Company B, 1st Battalion,  26th 
     Marines  were  involved  in action while on a patrol  outside  the 
     perimeter of the Khe Sanh Combat Base in South Vietnam.  After the 
     long battle was over,  the Marine Corps recovered approximately 18 
     unidentifiable remains from the battlefield.'
     
     Soon afterwards, a mass burial was planned for a National Cemetery 
     in St. Louis, Missouri.  The families of the men to be buried were 
     notified, flown into St. Louis separately,  and lodged in separate 
     hotels.  They did not confer with one another,  and some felt they 
     were  deliberately  being kept apart when they might console  each 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 45
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     other,  and  perhaps  learn from each other cherished  details  of 
     their loved ones' last days.
     
     When  the  families arrived at the cemetery,  they were shown  the 
     gravesite,  but  the burial did not take place in their  presence. 
     They  were  told  they  could come later to see  the  grave  after 
     interment.  When  one family member returned to the site,  it  was 
     clear that no burial had taken place. The sod was undisturbed.
     
     On January 28, 1973, Sgt. Ronald Ridgeway,  one of those 18 "dead" 
     and buried Marines, turned up as a live Prisoner of War.
     
     The  Marine  Corps has admitted that some of  those  "buried"  men 
     could  have been taken prisoner,  but that it was  doubtful.  Even 
     though  considerable  doubt  surrounds the identification  of  the 
     Marines buried in St. Louis, and, indeed, some of them,  like Sgt. 
     Ridgeway, might have survived to be captured,  all were maintained 
     in Killed in Action status. In short, no one was looking for them.
     
     Mrs. Michael Brellenthin, the wife of one of the 18 men asked Sgt. 
     Ridgeway  about her husband when she was able to contact him  some 
     years  later.  He was unable to provide any useful information  on 
     Michael  other  than  he had not seen him prior to  or  after  the 
     battle.    Mrs.   Brellenthin   questions  the  validity  of   the 
     identification  of  her  husband.  No  one is  looking  for  Lance 
     Corporal Michael Brellenthin.
     
     Each time remains are "positively identified"  we receive the same 
     assurances   that   the  identifications   are   scientific,   and 
     supportable.   Indeed,  technology  in  this area  has  progressed 
     beyond  our imaginations.   But can we really say that those  like 
     the  Special Forces team and the Marine Corps unit have been truly 
     positively identified?
     
     It should be no surprise that when remains are returned,  families 
     are  reluctant to accept the U.S.  Government's word that this  is 
     their loved one.
     
     The  ultimate  tragedy  is that when a report trickles  into  U.S. 
     Government  agencies  saying that Michael Brellenthin --  or  Gary 
     LaBohn  --  or Samuel Toomey --  or any of the others --  is still 
     alive,  the  verdict  will  be that this report correlates  to  an 
     individual who has been accounted for!
     
     What if they haven't been accounted for?
     
     What if they ARE among those suspected to be alive?
     
     What if,  like Ronald Ridgeway,  they by some miracle showed up on 
     Capitol  Hill one day?   What would we say to them?   Sorry...  we 
     were just SURE it was you we buried...
     







     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 46
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                        POWs/MIAs still being seen!
     
                             Input by: Rick Stolz
                       NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor
                    The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin
                               (414) 567-0437
     
     (Note from Joe:  As I edited this article for NamVet inclusion, 
     I could not help but think to myself: "I wonder how true this 
     REALLY is?  Is THIS an actual example of the many attempts at
     psyching the general public to give MORE money to the POW/MIA 
     effort?"  I'd be interested in YOUR reaction(s).)
     
     20 August 1989
     
     *******************
     *******************
     *******************
     
     
     Dear *********;
     
     As per our conversation tonight on the phone, I am enclosing a 
     copy of my report on *************** activities in Thailand. You 
     are one of the very few that have seen it. Although there is no 
     classified information, I think you should be selective in 
     deciding who should have a need to know. I am letting you have it 
     because of your activities and your genuine concern in this issue. 
     I'm sure you will be able to put it to some good use for the 
     cause.
     
     ************* and I have parted company for various reasons, one 
     of which you can probably imagine. I did , however, give them a 
     copy also, and may regret it if ***** gets it. I gave it to 
     **********, along with a partial financial report.(copies of the 
     bank acct. and ext.)
     
     ************* may not want even this general info out yet, however 
     I feel some people need to know what is going on to help keep the 
     issue alive.
     
     As you will see if you read the reports, we had many live sighting 
     reports and we (myself and 2 others know the informants and where 
     to get in touch with them) can and will give it a good try in the 
     near future, to attempt to get some of the POWs repatriated. We 
     also have access to several set of remains which might also clear 
     up several of the cases.
     
     I now may possibly have the backing, financially, politically, and 
     etc. to go back within 2 weeks and complete the job we have 
     started.
     
     Wish us luck.
     
     I'm still trying to get through on the lines to Bangkok tonight. 
     Not much luck yet. I have contacts and friends at AP, UPI, and 
     independent journalist who may be able to help. I'II keep trying.
     
     Give me a call if you have any questions, good luck.
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 47
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
     Sincerely,
     
     *********
     
     August 9, 1989
        The following report and summary gives, in general terms, the 
     results of ************* activities in Nakon Phanom Thailand 
     during the period of 1 December 1988 through 5 May 1989.
     
        All information in this summary is a compilation of data 
     gathered by *************, and was taken from the daily log books 
     which were kept by ************* personnel at their ************, 
     "***************."
     
        This report does not include any specific names or exact 
     locations of agents or Prisoners of War, for obvious reason. 
     However, dates of the interviews and dates of the sightings are 
     correct as reported.
     
        Some difficulty was encountered in interpreting some of the 
     entries due to illegible handwriting. However, ****** was able to 
     interpret most of the entries by using his knowledge of the 
     situation and the people involved. Therefore, correctness of this 
     report is the responsibility of ******** only.
     
        A note of importance that should be remembered and considered 
     is this; a 90% probability of these testimonies being fraud, 
     deception, or lies, with the intent of taking money from 
     Americans, is very likely. Some of the informants and agents have 
     made a business of taking money from Americans for over 15 years, 
     and are very good at it.
     
        One point, however, that sets ************* apart from the 
     other Americans who have been involved in S.E. Asia, is their "No 
     money up front" policy. This policy weeded out the con-men from 
     the beginning of most interviews; they usually did not come back 
     again. The remainder of the informants who persisted in coming 
     back at their own expense, with only the hope of obtaining the 
     $2.4 million dollar reward, were considered to be the most 
     reliable.
     
        Any dog-tag reports, remains, or other artifacts were referred 
     to JCRC at the American Embassy in Bangkok. We did not buy any 
     bones or other artifacts. However, we did take pictures and 
     recorded the information.
     
        This summary is only intended to show an example of the types 
     of reports we received while in the country. I do not intend to 
     imply that any of the enclosed data is true or factual. It is 
     based solely on the credibility and honesty of the informers. The 
     reader should use his own opinion as to whether this Asia Project 
     is useful, productive, and should otherwise be continued.
     
        Any publication or use of this data should be approved of 
     first, by the staff of *************. This summary is only for 
     your general information. The particulars on any individual cases, 
     names, and locations may be obtained from ************* at their 
     discretion.
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 48
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
     SUMMARY : Reports received for the period of 1 December 1988,
               through 5 May 1989.
     
       1. Number of individual reports concerning                  71
            "Live POWS:"
     
       2. Total number of Americans reported:                   2,212
     
       3. Largest group (number) of POWs reported:            400-500
     
       4. Majority of reports involved groups in              1 to 27
          number ranging from:
     
       5. Number of "First-Hand" live sightings, (actual           11
           hands on or actual verbal communication with
           POWs):
     
       6. Number of "Second-Hand" live sightings, (friend          10
           or relative who has seen, touched, or talked
           to POWs):
     
       7. Number of I-D card and dog-tag reports received:         15
     
       8. Number of "remains" reported:                            18
     
       9. Number of individual remains actually seen by             6
         ************* personnel:
     
      10. Number of pictures reported or actually seen:             6
     
      11. Number of POW Personnel files reported that are          70
         available:
     
      12. Number of rescue attempts reported in the last year:      3
     
      13. Number of POWs "Killed" in rescue attempts:               2
                                (possibly 3)              (possibly 3)                                                   
     
       The following is an abbreviated version of most of the reports 
     we received for the report period. As was previously mentioned, 
     the names, locations, and other important information have been 
     omitted to prevent any detriment to agents or the POWs themselves.
     
      1 December 1988
        Dog-tag report with the name ________.
     
      2 December 1988
        Report of three men loosely held near VN border. Money
        wanted up front.
     
      3 December 1988
        Report of three sick POWs, part of another group.
     
      6 December 1988
        Informant, a Police Lt., with photo of three-four U. S.
        Officers. Is inquiring if the $2.4 million reward is real.
     
      8 December 1988
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

          (1) Thai informant has lowland Lao friend, who came from Laos 
              six to ten months ago. Supposedly has info on POWs, 100-
              200 held in caves. Will follow-up.
          (2) Thai informant knows location of two POWs near VN border.
              Estimate 20 days travel to that location.
          (3) Informant knows the location of seven POWs, one possibly
              CIA. Kept together for ten years.
     
     10 December 1988
          (1) Thai informant brought in four dog tags, claims to have
              the remains of all four. Will bring jaw bone of one
              later. Also has Laos friend who knows location of two 
              POWs. Brought jaw bone later which was photographed.
          (2) Report of eight POWs held in cave (two possibly CIA).
              Six in a cave, two out farming, cave dwellers out twice
              a week. Guards PL plus hill tribe types. Two farmers
              (CIA), one with wife, one single.
     
     11 December 1988
        Informant has PL friend who has live POWs, wants to defect and
        bring POWs with them. (56 guards and families). Wants 
        guarantees, good possibility, but too large a number to move
        unnoticed.
     
     12 December 1988
          (1) Local lady brought son and friend in with a dog-tag;
              friend has seen the remains, skull, bones, uniform 
              artifacts, alleged to be one _______________.
          (2) Same friend has seen three POWs near NVN border, begging
              to go home. They feel that they can get them out!
     
     13 December 1988
          (1) Three Lao claim to have friend who saw three POWs this
              year at ____________ All are pilots, originally nine;
              six died or committed suicide, ages 50-55. Guards and
              families want to come out. (Possibly 70 people). Round
              trip for more information (names); possibly 18 days.
          (2) Report of three POWs held in mountains near VN border.
              Informant claims good chance to get them out.
     
     15 December 1988
        Man reports his friend has the remains of ___________. brought 
        dog-tag information; wants to sell the remains (naturally).
     
     23 December 1988
        Informant claims to have seen, talked to, and embraced, two 
        POWs, in October 1988. They are survivors of a group of nine 
        that escaped a VN prison camp in Cambodia in November 1988. Are 
        being held by Lao Resistance now.  Want to go home bad. Are 
        very ill and weak. One is named ______________.
     
     24 December 1988
        Informant claims friend has several sets of remains with dog-
        tags and other artifacts. Wants to sell all. Also knows and has 
        talked to two POWs recently who are married, have kids, and do 
        not want to go home, (These later proved to be Frenchmen).
     
     26 December 1988
          (1) Informant had a set of remains, took them to the U. S.
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

              Embassy, and received quite a run-around. They were to 
              get back to him, but never did. We have heard this from
              several people that are very upset. They would like
              something for their efforts and all they get is a "thank            
              you for your contribution."
          (2) Informant claims to have seen two POWs at ten feet, one
              week ago. One man named ____________ they are kept in a 
              cave, out to work on guard's GMC truck, One bald, 55-60, 
              one with mustache and younger. Guards, PL and VC. POWs in 
              this village for one year,
          (3) Another seven POWs were taken back to VN one year ago. 
              One informant is apparently a PL guard.
     
     2 January 1989
        PL informant claims to have the POW personnel files of 70 POWs 
        which he wants to trade for a permit to a third country. 
        Records are of POWs which were moved to VN in 81-82 after Bo 
        Gritz's visit.
     
     9 January 1989
        An American brought by dog-tag information to check against our 
        list. VN national friend asked him to check it out. He claims 
        to have two sets of remains buried under the front of his 
        house. Remains are recoverable. Information did not check out 
        on our list but may be on some other individual's list.
     
     10 January 1989
        Informant knows well two POWs, married to village 
        chiefs'/officials' daughters. Others still in caves.
     
     14 January 1989
          (1) Informant (a very important person) knows two POWs and
              claims they want to remain in Laos. (???) One is married
              to a tribal chief's daughter and has three children by 
              her. The other lives in a cave (??) and teaches vc about
              U.S. infantry tactics. Claims to be able to get POWs out 
              but shows concern for escorts and fears being shot by 
              Thai authorities if they get wind of any POWs coming out.
          (2) Same informant claims to have had three skulls of 
              American helicopter crew members, from a helo crash site.
              Turned them over to U. S. Embassy; two checked out as
              non-Asian.
     
     16 January 1989
        Informant claims knowledge of 400-500 POWs being held in the
        area of the Chinese border. Had picture of two POWs in 
        sleeveless undershirts and with beards.
     
     20 January 1989
          (1) Informant claims to have two skeletal remains of
              Americans named ___________ and ___________. Showed
              exact location on map where they are kept. (Point where
              Thailand, Laos, and Cambodia touch). Also has a friend
              who knows an American now teaching English in VN. POW?
              Missionary?
          (2) Had conversation with man claiming knowledge of 50
              escaped GI's, mostly black and Hispanic, who were to be
              court-martialed along with NVA troops.
          (3) Non-POW information: same informant knows high-ranking
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

              Lao involved in Opium running. Wants out and wants
              money. Will provide pictures of airplanes and serial
              numbers involved in air drops into the Gulf of Siam (Thai
              Airforce) as proof of story (very interesting stories).
     
     21 January 1989
        Informant claims to have remains of two Americans named
        ____________ and _____________. Has other artifacts as well.
     
     22 January 1989
          (1) Female case worker at refugee camp told us of many
              Caucasians being held at _________. Sentries on the
              mountain tops prevent anyone from going in or out. Her
              informant has a friend who is one of the Sentries. All
              the prisoners are old (look to be in their 70's) but most
              likely in 50's and 60's.
          (2) Another informant reports seeing one American, red beard
              and hair, working. Do not know where he went.
     
     24 January 1989
        Female informant claims to have seen Americans believed to be
        POWs, three years ago in northern Laos. (Possible connection
        with and fits the previous story, (1) on 22 January 1989).
     
     25 January 1989
        Informant knows father of Chief guard of POW camp where as
        many as 400 POWs are being held. They go out in groups of 15
        for work details. Has wild plan and scheme to get all out at
        once. We explained we needed only a couple to break this
        issue wide open. (This story is concerning the same general
        location of previous stories, with similar numbers--bears
        checking out).
     
     3 February 1989
          (1) Informant claims 27 POWs are being held by his cousin in
              ___________, in a large cave near ________________.
          (2) Cousin also show's him where six more POWs had been moved
              to the village of ____________ located ______________.
              These six came from a group of seven which he had
              recently acquired from another unnamed location. (Checks
              with other stories we have heard; this also has other
              interesting aspects to it).
     
     6 February 1989
          (1) Informant spoke in generalities of POWs being held in
              ______________ and __________ areas. Some substantial
              numbers were indicated.
          (2) He also knows of one American whose plane went down on
              VN/Laos border during the war. Was protected by VN women
              with whom he has had three children. In a very isolated
              area.
          (3) Also has friend with pictures of POWs, 1-3 years old.
     
     9 February 1989
          (1) Informant saw a light haired, long haired, and bearded
              six-foot tall man on a buffalo, 20K from ____________
              near ____________ 1-I 1/2K from the small village of
              ________________ Was 30 meters from him when PL (armed
              guard) ordered him from the area. The guard told him the
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

              man was a POW and there were several more. They worked
              on a rotational basis. (Our man is going back to get
              pictures and other information, 10 days).
          (2) A friend of his that he was going to see on this trip,
              gave him the dog-tag of the survivor of a C130 crash
              (crew of 11). They have the remains of the other ten,
              bones, dog-tags, etc.
     
     10 February 1989
        Female informant reports four POWs in one group, one has Lao
        wife and two children. Two others are held several K's away.
        Son knows where these people are located.
     
     13 February 1989
          (1) Informant has friend (PL) who saw two POWs in Laos who
              are guarded by six VC and their families, Are held in
              the village of __________. One is married to a VN wife
              and has five kids.
         *(2) Informant had letter from one of the POWs to be sent or
              mailed to his U.S. kin.
     
     14 February 1989
        Informant has Lao friend who was recently bringing out a POW.
        He was advancing one-two K's ahead of the POW when he was
        caught and arrested by VC. POW and other escorts went back
        to camp,
     
     15 February 1989
          (1) Female informant was in Viengsao Prison in 69-75, with
              husband. She escaped in June 1975. Claims 17 POWs were
              in the camp also; six were black yanks. Some died, Saw
              no more Americans during 12 years from 1975 until she
              entered Thailand in 1987.
          (2) Informant tells us he and Lao gathered data sheets.
              "Filled out personally by four POWs and turned them over
              to two USG types, "Steve and John." Information checked
              out positive on POWs. Haven't seen Steve or John since
              1 November 1988.
          (3) Also four Thai., one Lao, and two escorted POWs allegedly
              were killed on their way to the Mekong, near ___________
              in June 1988. Who killed them is unknown, bodies not
              found. However, they were known to have been killed
              according to groups #3 who was watching from afar, while
              group #2 was on the Lao side of the river, and group #1
              was on the Thai side. (Steve and John?) Trying to find
              out who the two POWs were and the Thais.
     
     16 February 1989
        Same informant as above. Steve and John in and out of ______
        most of 1988, paying for information on four POWs located at
        ______. Same two Americans also allegedly paid 1 million Baht
        for information on the two POWs who were killed. (Why were they 
        caught and killed, was it a set-up?) We want to find out who 
        Steve and John are, to get the real story. Also want to talk to 
        a Thai, named ________________ who came from BR to help them.
     
     17 February 1989
        Same informant as above. Brought in imprint of dog-tag 
        belonging to one ______________. On our list as "No Comment."
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

        Crash site in Laos, location? Brought to him by Lao friends;
        want money up front for remains. (Steve and John paid before),
     
     21 February 1989
        Two Thai informants; information about large camp for pilots at 
        _____________. Have two pictures of Americans; two men in one 
        picture and one in the other. Taken by PL in 1971 (too old to 
        be of much use now; same pictures have been all over S.E. Asia 
        for years).
     
     22 February 1989
          (1) Went to see in __________________. He reports one AF POW 
              actually protected now by tribal group. Lives with tribal 
              wife and two children, 6 Km from _______ village in 
              mountains near VN border. Not everyone in village is 
              aware of POW. POW is aware of the reward and wants to 
              come out. X- PL man was point man arrested in an earlier 
              report.
          (2) Went to see reported remains of a pilot. Allegedly have
              skull. Was shown material which belong with the skull,
              Lt./Col. Silver leaf USAF, coat button, two quarters, a
              nickel, and bone fragments (human?) Photographed these
              items. Plane crashed in general areas of _____________.
              Obviously wants money for these items and the location.
          (3) He also told of friend who saw one POW in tribal village;
              will give information for money, of course.
     
     23 February 1989
          (1) Had breakfast with ________________. Much information
              reported, including knowledge of "49 POWs." Believes 
              there is a good possibility of there being more.
          (2) Another dog-tag brought in to check against our list.
              Alleged remains of _________________________.
     
     24 February 1989
        Informant warns us against false dog-tag reports of R. J.
        Dussult. (Everyone uses this name to get money from Americans).
     
     25 February 1989
          (1) Report of civilian named ______________. Supposedly 
              killed in crash. Have ID card and bone fragments (this is 
              a commonly used scam here),
          (2) Informant also claims to have three skulls and similar 
              dod forms on three men who were captured and shot years
              ago and buried in ______________.
          (3) This agent has worked for _______ in 1986 and thinks he
              is a bad guy because of non-payment. He has gone into 
              Laos for two months and five days, getting information on 
              POWs. This American never paid him for his efforts.
          (4) Another eyewitness reports seeing, in January and 
              February 1988, four or five white men, presumed to be 
              POWs, in a prison compound with some Lao prisoners of 
              unknown numbers. Location was 10 Km from _______ a 
              village 20 Km S. W. of _________. One is red headed, none
              seem to be crippled, Prison is presently empty, Prisoners 
              were moved to the Kha village of _______ near the VN 
              border. He has been to old prison, still empty.
     
     29 February 1989
     
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        Received call from French journalist who wants to share 
        information about POWs. Will check him out.
     
     2 March 1989
          (1) Informant named ________ called again; two Lao friends 
              had just left. Had brought information on two POWs.
          (2) Also spoke of two whites, one American, one Aussie,
              seeking information on POWs. He had avoided them.
          (3) Another group of Lao had also come to him with
              information on one POW with Lao wife and family. Works
              five days a week with Soviet Superior, as an A/C
              mechanic. Is carefully controlled.
          (4) Another contact has information on seven POWs in a cave,
              close to VN, guarded by PL and VC. Wants to sell
              information; then it's up to us or USG to get them out.
     
     4 March 1989
        Informant #1 and Informant #2 have old picture of one F105
        pilot in water surroundings (6 December 71). One of two POWs
        in front of helicopter that was downed is in fair shape. Insist 
        these three are part of a group of 27 now held in highly secure 
        area under the control of a VC General and a VN Col. in the 
        area of ____________. #2 insists he can get more information; 
        he works periodically at the POW camp. Camp is located between 
        mountains and forest at end of __________ road, _____ Km north 
        of ______________.
     
     5 March 1989
        Received report of unusual plans to rescue POWs. One POW
        alleged to be son of Col. __________________ . Cannot divulge
        anything further at this time.
     
     10 March 1989
        Informant _____________returned again, this time with POW
        information on ___________. Allegedly working as a mechanic
        under Soviet supervision. Married to daughter of tribal chief, 
        has family in village. Can get any information desired: photos, 
        prints, hand written letters, etc. POW wants to go home.
     
     22 March 1989
          (1) _______, reports hearing of PL captured trying to bring 
              out a POW. POW reportedly taken to another prison. Took
              place in October 1988. (Sounds similar to other reports
              we received).
     
     23 March 1989
          (1) Visit from independent journalist; told story of a black
              sergeant who is supposedly a deserter. An informer
              allegedly has video and audio tapes of him. A second 
              story says he has already been moved to Europe. Another 
              story he is following up on is of four-five Americans 
              being brought to Thailand by ship. Presently being held 
              by KR in Southern Cambodia.
          (2) Informant's cousin knows the location of one American POW
              70 Km from here in the village of _________ due east of
              here near the VN border. Has Lao wife and two children.
              Works and helps villagers with construction, etc. POW is 
              air crew/not pilot.
          (3) Informant's Lao brother-in-law actually stood next to, 
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

              and talked to two Americans on New Years (did not know 
              they were valuable at the time). Was there again in 
              February, only one POW was visible.
          (4) Another illegal informant wants to sell bones; claims to
              have complete set of remains, including dog-tags. Gave
              us the name _____________ and other dog-tag information.
          (5) Received call from _________ in BK. Wants to check out a
              dog-tag for him and also wants results of two previous
              names he had given us.
     
     25 March 1989
        Met a man in town; has a friend that has many remains to sell.
        Friend also knows the location of many "live Americans in S.E.
        Laos." Knows where we live; will get back with more
        information.
     
     26 March 1989
        Informant claims a Lao friend told him of four POWs (close to
        river).
     
     27 March 1989
        Informant claims Lao friends know where seven POWs are kept in 
        the village of _______, ___ Kms due _____ of here. Saw them
        during the week of 20 March 1989.
     
     28 March 1989
        Agent reports having six teams in Laos at present, and feels it 
        is only a matter of time before a successful rescue is 
        accomplished.
     
     31 March 1989
        __________ called from _______ shop. A man came into his shop
        claiming to know where three POWs are detained in Danang area,
        Claims to be able to get pictures and other information. He is 
        a former border policeman and drug runner,
     
     1 April 1989
          (1) A friend came by to see if we were interested in some
              remains and artifacts; his friend had brought from Laos.
              We went to see the remains; had upper jaw (lower part of
              skull), a Flight chit, dog-tags, and bone fragments 
              alleged to belong to one ____________. We took pictures
              and recorded the information.
          (2) Further discussion resulted in the Lao informant telling
              of one live POW in the Hanoi area. Parachuted to safety;
              only survivor of an eight man crew, now doing mechanic
              work, under guard, Russian and VN troops near. Last seen
              in January 1989. Informant is going back to get pictures
              and information we requested (including letter),
     
     2 April 1989
          (1) Our contact on the ______ operation brought us the name
              of our main contact in Laos. Shooting for an operation
              start up by 5 April 1989. This mission involves possible
              rescue of eight POWs, including one well-known POW.
              (************* is not involved in this operation; this is 
              strictly an independent effort by ________________).
          (2) Our man also informed us about two USG types holding
              lectures up and down the border, trying to discredit 
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

              ******, Bill Hendon, Jack Bailey, and other groups in the
              area. (There is much more to this story).
          (3) _________ called; our operation is approved for go.
     
     3 April 1989
          (1) Made further operational planning and arrangements for 
              the _____________ operation.
          (2) Went to _________camp; made tentative arrangements to 
              start another operation which has been in the planning 
              stages since December 1988. Final arrangements were made;
              mission is to commence on 6 April 1989.
     
     4 April 1989
          (1) The names of all agents involved in the __________ 
              operation were divulged to us by our contact 
              ____________.
          (2) Made another contact today, named __________ who claims 
              to have a friend knowing where POWs are located.
     
     6 April 1989 Who is going
          (1) _____ from the shop brought a man by who is going
              to Laos in one week to visit relatives. Intends to look
              for POW information; wanted to know the particulars about
              the reward.
          (2) Mr. ___________ called; wants to meet us to discuss the 
              POW issue.
          (3) More work done on the _________ operation. We were given
              more information about one of the POWs.
     
     7 April 1989
          (1) Informer reports he has a friend who knows where a live
              Negro is, and wants to discuss this with us, Also had a 
              copy of an ID card which belonged to a man killed in 
              Laos. The Negro worked with him. Remains of other man 
              available.
          (2) Two Thai. and one Lao came in to try to sell remains, 
              also wanted particulars on the $2.4 million reward and
              how to get it. Mr. __________ is to bring dog-tags and
              remains here tomorrow.
          (3) __________ stopped by with a friend. Wants us to go to
              _______ to see eight sets of remains that his Lao friends
              are bringing out of Laos for us to see.
     
     8 April 1989
        More work on the operation ______ things looking good so far.
        High level official wants guarantees before coming out with
        the POWs (eight).
     
     10 April 1989
          (1) ______ came by today; very interesting conversation. He
              filled us in on all the good guys and bad guys working on 
              this issue here. We know who was and is directly 
              responsible for scamming Al Shinkle, Jeff Donahue, Jack
              Bailey, Bill Hendon, and many other Americans. These
              names check out on other list we have of highly 
              professional scammers,
          (2) He also brought information about three POWs near Khe 
              Sanh.
          (3) Talked to ________ she says several of her VN customers
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

              tell here there are 150 POWs in VN now.
     
     13 April 1989
        ______ came by with the Major's name, who is one of two POWs
        presently held by _______ mountain people. These two are out of 
        a group of 24; 22 have been moved to "Ho Chi Minh City" 
        recently. Will get the names of the others ASP.
     
     14 April 1989
        _____________ came by with Lao friend who is leaving for Laos
        tomorrow to get the information I had requested on six POWs 
        that his resistance group has maintained constant contact with. 
        He guarantees pictures, fingerprints, letters from them all.
     
     15 April 1989
          (1) Checked out the so called Major (previously mentioned)
              turned out to be an E-4 Marine who is actually listed as
              captured. (Possible mix-up in the identity of the two 
              POWs)
          (2) As requested, we went to see two of our informants who
              supposedly had information on six POWs out of a group of
              eight; two had died. They claim to be bare to get all
              information on the six. They also claim to be able to get 
              all six out for 100,000 Baht each: (Approximately 
              $4000.00 each). They also want 40,000 Baht for the 
              information on the six POWs. (Looks like another scam).
          (3) _______ called, want us to meet with the two ________
              villagers who have daily contact with the POW named
              _______________. These men are our direct contact with
              ____________________.
     
     19 April 1989
          (1) Visited by man from JCRC, discussed remains issue. Seems
              that much of the information we received is the same as
              what he has been getting for years (some is not).
          (2) Taxis driver named ______________ came by with dog-tag
              information while JCRC man was here; would not talk to
              us with our visitor here.
     
     21 April 1989
          (1) Discussed the issue with the head of ___________ for the
              entire province. He has a retired Col. friend in Laos
              at the moment getting information on one POW whom he
              knows personally. Will get information to us ASP. This
              friend is a _________ Army Intelligence officer. Very
              productive meeting with this official; cleared up many
              questions and fears about the Thai. Government.
          (2) Discussed the POW issue with the Deputy Minister of 
              Health for all of Thailand. Was interested in our 
              problem. also met and discussed issue with the Head 
              Master of all rural schools; also interested. Made a few
              good points.
     
     26 April 1989
          (1) Received three visitors today; two X-border policemen,
              now police officers, They claim to know of 150 POWs,
              within the last year. Some of their friends tried to get 
              four out recently and were nearly caught. Came to see if 
              another attempt would be worth it or not. They also claim 
     
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              to have access to a pilot with one hand missing. The 
              village where the POWs are located in _______ near 
              _______. Between _____ and _______ is the location of the 
              cave where 150 POWs are being held (similar to other 
              stories we have heard.)
          (2) Another informant came in today telling a similar story 
              as above (location and etc.)
     
     26 April 1989
          (1) Another informant who has previously worked with us, came
              today. Is about to bring out POWs; wants to know if we
              want them delivered to us or should we arrange a pick-up. 
              We told ________ we will make arrangements, just give us 
              location and time.
          (2) Same agent claims to have three POWs, one of which is
              begging to be taken to Thailand and promises to send
              money back to them if he gets home to the states.
     
     28 April 1989
        ________ showed up again, still fishing; had dog-tag 
        information. Claims his friends have a complete set of remains. 
        Wants to sell all for 100,000 Baht. He also claims to know 
        where 130 POWs have been brought together from VN, Laos, and 
        Cambodia. They are checked on a daily basis by Soviet, Lao, and 
        VN doctors. ____________ is alleged to be one of them. Under 
        heavy guard, for a possible buy out by _______.(Rumor?)
     
     1 May 1989
        Had a conversation with an intelligence operator who claims to 
        have had a conversation with the Lao Ambassador to Thailand for 
        1 1/2 hours. He was told that Laos had tried to sell 253 POWs 
        to the U. S. for a certain amount of money in 1985 and had been 
        turned down.
     
     3 May 1989
        One of our agents returned from Laos empty handed. Was very sad 
        and disappointed. Seems he had convinced the guards to get the 
        information that we had requested. They showed him a new 
        picture with three POWs in T-shirts and shorts, two taller and 
        balding, and one shorter with salt and pepper hair. Are being 
        used as laborers and have several Lao guards. The guards got 
        wise to what he wan doing and now want 400,000 Baht for all the 
        information. (They also had finger prints and letters written 
        by the POWs). We told him to go back and tell them to bring us 
        the information first and if it checked out we would then talk 
        deals--no money up front! Our man went back to take them the 
        message.
     
     5 May 1989
        An update on a previous report, of which two reports are 
        similar. Now hearing that 150 POWS are held in ________ in
        _______________ Province, near _____________. Seen in late 
        1988. All have had broken appendages and other ailments, are
        being prepared for a possible sale. Informant also says POWs 
        are being held in ______ area still.
     
        Further follow-up on these reports will be difficult without 
     funds.
     
     
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        Upon my return to the U. S., I maintained contact with our 
     interpreter whom I had left in charge until my relief arrived. 
     Within two days of my return, I received word that one of the 
     groups we had sent into Laos had returned with positive proof of 
     POW existence, but would not give it to him. They would only talk 
     to an American.
     
        *************, for whatever the reason, failed to or wasn't 
     able to get another American into our base there for more than a 
     month after I left. This, in my estimation, may have ultimately 
     caused at least one American to have to spend the rest of his life 
     in S. E. Asia as a Prisoner.
     
        There was another report that several Lao soldiers that we had 
     been working with, had in fact brought an American to the river 
     and waited three days for an American to come and finalize the 
     deal. No one came and I'm afraid that man has been lost, at least 
     temporarily.
     
        Much time and effort was put into developing a trust and 
     relationship with certain agents, informers, and captors. Many 
     promises had been made which would have insured a POW release. 
     However, by not following through and having a constant presence 
     of personnel on station, we failed. To me, this is inexplicable 
     and a real shame.
     
        Since then ************* has sent another man to take over the
     operation. Hopefully he will be able to re-establish that trust 
     and relationship with the proper people and the ultimate goal of 
     the reparation of one or more Americans will be realized.
     
     CONCLUSION
        It should be evident by now, if you read any or all of the 
     examples, that this is a very important effort being conducted in 
     Thailand. It should not be taken lightly, and should be pursued 
     with utmost urgency, in light of the upcoming pull-out of VN from 
     Cambodia.
     
        If properly operated with good backing, both financially and 
     with the proper personnel on station, there is a real possibility 
     of getting one or more POWs out of S. E. Asia. There is also great
     potential for gathering information proving the existence of "Live
     Americans" being held against their will. This information hasn't
     been available to the general public prior to this effort, only 
     the USG has had access to these types of reports on a scale this 
     large.
     
        Even considering a 90+ percent probability of these reports 
     being false, fraud, and scams, there is still enough credence to 
     some of them to be believable.
     
        From my experience with different Lao resistance groups, Lao
     military, Lao refugees, Thai nationals, Thai military, Vietnamese, 
     and even other Americans who are involved in S. E. Asia, there is 
     not doubt in my mind or any of the other ************* personnel 
     that were there that Americans are still being held against their 
     will. In fact, at the latest count (as of 5 May 1989), there are 
     257 known Americans held in Laos and a total of around 500 in VN, 
     Cambodia, and Laos. These numbers were derived from what I 
     
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     consider to be a reliable source.
                
        By maintaining a constant presence in Thailand, this effort is 
     accomplishing a very important function; we are in effect insuring 
     the lives of the Americans being held captive by showing their 
     captors and the world that they are valuable to them and us, and 
     that they are not and will not be forgotten.
     



















































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 61
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
                              by: Rick Stolz
                       NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor
                    The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin
                               (414) 567-0437
     
                   CASE SYNOPSIS: FRANCISCO, SAN DEWAYNE 
     Name:                   San Dewayne Francisco 
     Rank/Branch:            Major USAF 
     Unit: 
     Date of Birth:          29 February 1944 
     Home City of Record:    Burbank WA 
     Loss Date:              25 November 1968 
     Country of Loss:        North Vietnam 
     Loss Coordinates:       172000N 1061200E 
     Status (in 1973):       Prisoner of War 
     Category:               2 
     Acft/Vehicle/Ground:    F4D 
     Other Personnel In Incident:   Joseph C. Morrison (missing)
     Remarks: VOICE CONTACT ON GROUND 
     SYNOPSIS: Major San D.  Francisco and Colonel Joseph Morrison were 
     flying  an  F4D aircraft when it was lost on  November  25,  1968.  
     Both  officers safely ejected from the plane and established radio 
     contact on the ground with recovery forces.  Their parachutes were 
     spotted with 700 meters of a North Vietnamese encampment. 
       Contact  with Francisco was lost within a half  hour.   Morrison 
     evaded successfully throughout the night, and re-established radio 
     contact on the following day.   Recovery was prevented,  primarily 
     by weather,  and voice and beeper contact was lost.  Both Morrison 
     and  Francisco were placed in Prisoner of War Status and  expected 
     to  be  released in 1973 when 591 Americans were freed from  North 
     Vietnamese prisons. 
       A  later  coordination  of  records showed  that  Francisco  and 
     Morrison  were  both listed as Missing (not Prisoner)  by  Defense 
     Intelligence  Agency  and  the Air Force,  while  JCRC  (Thailand) 
     carried  both  Francisco and Morrison as Prisoner  (not  missing). 
     JCRC  was  ordered  to  "delete any references  pertaining  to  PW 
     status" in Francisco's case.   No order was issued at that time to 
     change  Morrison's  status.   The  reasons behind  the  order  are 
     unclear. 
       Thousands  of  reports  of Americans alive in the hands  of  the 
     Vietnamese  have  been received by the U.S.  since the end of  the 
     war.  Many  government officials state that they believe Americans 
     are currently being held against their will in Southeast Asia. The 
     question is,  who are they,  and how will we bring them home?   Is 
     one of them Francisco?
     












     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 62
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                   Bio of James Albert Champion
     
                          by: Rick Stolz
                   NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor
                The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin
                          (414) 567-0437
     
               CASE SYNOPSIS: CHAMPION, JAMES ALBERT
     Name: James Albert Champion 
     Rank/Branch: E3/US Army 
     Unit: Company L (Ranger), 75th Infantry Regiment, assigned to
     101st Airborne Division 
     Date of Birth: 16 November 1949              
     Home City of Record: Houston TX 
     Date of Loss: April 24, 1971 
     Country of Loss: South Vietnam 
     Loss Coordinates: 161155N 1071930E (YC484923) 
     Status (in 1973): Missing In Action 
     Category: 2 
     Aircraft/Vehicle/Ground: Ground      
     Other Personnel In Incident: Issako Malo (released POW); Marvin
     Duren (rescued); John Sly (killed); (one other team member, the
     medic, rescued); CWO Fred Behrens (from one of the helicopters,
     rescued) 
     REMARKS: 
     SYNOPSIS: James A. Champion was a member of a six-man radio Relay 
     Long Range Reconnaissance Patrol being inserted for operation in a 
     saddle at coordinates YC483923, Republic of on Vietnam April 23, 
     1971. After receiving intense ground fire from their primary 
     landing zone on the west side of the A Shau Valley, the team was 
     inserted into their alternate LZ. 
       Taking the point, Team Leader Marvin Duren was severely wounded 
     by automatic weapons fire, grenade and rifle fire, and was 
     evacuated. His ATL, John Sly, was killed in action in a heroic 
     attempt with the team medic to drag Duren out of the line of enemy 
     fire. 
       CWO Fred Behrens, the MEDEVAC "Dustoff" pilot, was a volunteer, 
     having flown the mission because he felt his chances of succeeding 
     in this hot LZ would be higher than other, newer pilots, but he 
     was shot down during his second attempt to extract Sly from the LZ 
     and found himself on the ground with the team. 
       Several other helicopters with reinforcements were shot down by 
     intense ground fire and Aero Rifle Platoon reinforcements were 
     forced to withdraw and regroup due to heavy fire from the NVA. 
       During the three day battle that began at 1500 hours on April 
     23, Rangers Champion and Issako Malo left the team's defensive 
     perimeter to seek water. Behrens heard shots, and the two Rangers 
     never returned. 
       PFC Isaako F. Malo, was last seen at about 1600 hours on April 
     24. Champion was last seen on the morning of 25 April when he left 
     the site of one of the downed helicopters to look for water. From 
     April 25 through April 30, ground and aerial searches were made 
     for Champion without success. 
       Isaako Malo was confirmed captured, and after his release from 
     captivity, he stated that he was captured on the morning of April 
     25, and at no time did he see PFC Champion in captivity. 
       A reaction force from L/75 Rangers was inserted into the area 
     and successfully drove the NVA elements away from the Ranger 
     Team's position, and survivors were evacuated. No one ever told 
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     the six-man team how large the enemy force was that they had been 
     up against. However, it was a large enough force to warrant an 
     Arclight strike by B-52 bombers. 
       Evidence mounts that hundreds of Americans still missing in 
     Southeast Asia are still alive, captive, waiting for their country 
     to free them. James Champion may be one of them. 
     




















































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 64
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                    Bio of Michael Louis Laporte
     
                          by: Rick Stolz
                   NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor
                The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin
                          (414) 567-0437
     
              CASE SYNOPSIS:  LAPORTE, MICHAEL LOUIS 
     Name:                   Michael Louis Laporte 
     Rank/Branch:            E2/US Navy      
     Unit:                   1st Force Reconnaissance Co. 
                             1st Force Recon Btn, 1st Marine Division 
     Date of Birth:          21 August 1944            
     Home City of Record:    Los Angeles CA  
                             (born Seattle WA) 
     Date of Loss:           05 September 1967              
     Country of Loss:        South Vietnam   
     Loss Coordinates:       155500N 1075800E     
     Status (in 1973):       Missing In Action    
     Category:               2          
     Aircraft/Vehicle/Ground:     HCDROP      
     Other Personnel In Incident:  (none missing) 
     REMARKS: LOST IN HELICOPTER DROP 
     SYNOPSIS:   Hospital  Corpsman  Chief  Petty  Officer  Michael  L. 
     Laporte was assigned to the 1st Force Reconnaissance Company,  1st 
     Reconnaissance  Battalion,  1st Marine Division at Da Nang,  South 
     Vietnam.  On September 3,  1967,  Laporte was assigned as the team 
     corpsman  of a nine man reconnaissance patrol that was inserted by 
     parachute into Happy Valley, Quang Nam Province, South Vietnam. 
       Laporte was the number five man in the jump sequence.   All nine 
     parachutes  opened,  but a westerly wind of about 30 knots  caused 
     the team to drift. Laporte was seen by team members to be drifting 
     out and beyond the others. This was the last time he was seen.  He 
     did not join the patrol as planned. 
       The  patrol conducted an immediate search with negative results. 
     This  was Laporte's 13th jump and he was very experienced in  such 
     operations,  having  been in country 2 years,  with a request  for 
     another  extension.   It  was generally believed that he  was  not 
     injured in the jump and that he could evade capture.  Later in the 
     day,  the patrol was hit by an enemy force of 5-6 Viet Cong.   All 
     the  other  patrol  members were  recovered.  Laporte  was  listed 
     Missing in Action. 
       Over  8000  reports  of Americans still held captive  have  been 
     received  since the end of the Vietnam war.   Experts believe that 
     hundreds of Amricans could still be alive, waiting and hoping that 
     their country will someday bring them home. 
       Through  the  years  since  Laporte  disappeared,  reports  have 
     filtered in that he was captured by the Viet Cong.  In 1979,  U.S. 
     Marine  PFC Robert Garwood was released from Vietnam,  and related 
     that he had known of Laporte.  Garwood was held for some time at a 
     POW camp at Happy Valley.   According to Garwood,  the camp guards 
     called  Laporte  "Bill"  and had brought him to Garwood's camp  in 
     June 1970.  The last he heard, "Bill"  was working as a laborer on 
     a communal farm in North Vietnam near Quang Thien - in 1975 -  two 
     years after the U.S.  Government declared that there was no reason 
     to believe any POWs were still alive. 
       Garwood  was  not debriefed by the U.S.  Government for  some  8 
     years after he was released, so his knowledge of "Bill"  was quite 
     dated by the time it was reluctantly received.  Perhaps Laporte is 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 65
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     still alive, wondering if anyone remembers him - or cares. 
     

























































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 66
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                        Bio of Timothy Roy Bodden
     
                              by: Rick Stolz
                       NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor
                    The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin
                               (414) 567-0437
     
                    CASE SYNOPSIS: BODDEN, TIMOTHY ROY 
     Name: Timothy Roy Bodden 
     Rank/Branch: E5/US Marine Corps 
     Unit: HMM 165, Marine Air Group 36 
     Date of Birth: 06 November 1942 
     Home City of Record: Downer's Grove IL 
     Loss Date: 03 June 1967 
     Country of Loss: Laos 
     Loss Coordinates: 161914N 1064049E (XD795050) 
     Status (in 1973): Missing In Action 
     Category: 2 
     Acft/Vehicle/Ground: CH46A 
     Other Personnel In Incident: Frank E. Cius (returned POW 1973);
     Ronald J. Dexter; John G. Gardner; Stephen Hanson; Billy Laney;
     (all missing); Mr. Ky (Nung Cdr. - wounded and rescued); Charles
     F. Wilklow (rescued) 
     REMARKS: LAST SEEN IN CRASHED AIRCRAFT 
     SYNOPSIS: On June 3, 1967, Capt.  Steven P.  Hanson,  pilot;  1Lt. 
     John G. Gardner, co-pilot; Sgt. Timothy R. Bodden, crew chief/door 
     gunner; LCpl. Frank E. Cius, doorgunner; SFC Billy R.  Laney,  SFC 
     Ronald J. Dexter, SFC Charles F.  Wilklow and an unknown number of 
     ARVN  personnel,  all passengers,  were aboard a CH46A  helicopter 
     (serial #150955) on an extraction mission in Laos. 
       The  USMC  aircraft picked up a U.S.  Army Special  Forces  team 
     attached  to MACV-SOG,  Command and Control,  and the ARVN  troops 
     they  were  working  with.  Military  Assistance  Command  Vietnam 
     Studies and Observation Group (MACV-SOG)  was a joint service high 
     command  unconventional  warfare  task  force  engaged  in  highly 
     classified  operations throughout Southeast Asia.  The 5th Special 
     Forces  channeled  personnel into MACV-SOG (not a  Special  Forces 
     group)   through  Special  Operations  Augmentation  (SOA)   which 
     provided  their  "cover"  while under secret orders  to  MACV-SOG. 
     These  teams  performed  deep penetration  missions  of  strategic 
     reconnaissance  and interdiction which were called,  depending  on 
     the time frame, "Shining Brass" or "Prairie Fire" missions. 
       The  aircraft received extensive automatic small arms fire  upon 
     takeoff from the Landing Zone,  took numerous hits and crashed 350 
     meters from the LZ, located about 15 miles inside Laos west of the 
     A  Shau  Valley.  The  helicopter  did not  burn  on  impact,  and 
     continued  to receive fire.  Three ARVN troops were able to return 
     to  the LZ where the troops remaining at the LZ were extracted the 
     following day. 
       The  troops  waiting at the LZ could not search because  of  the 
     hostile threat in the area.  Air searches located the survivors of 
     the  crash,  but  they could not be evacuated.  The only  American 
     found  to be in a position to be safely evacuated was SFC Wilklow. 
     He  gave  the following account of what happened to the  crew  and 
     passengers aboard the CH46: 
       SFC Dexter appeared uninjured and left the wreckage with a large 
     number  of ARVN troops.  Capt.  Hanson was wounded and outside the 
     helicopter,  but  stated that he had to return to get his carbine. 
     The  Marine Corps believes he died of the wounds he received  when 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 67
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     the aircraft was overrun,  although Hanson's wife later identified 
     her   husband  in  a  widely  distributed  Vietnamese   propaganda 
     photograph  of  a pilot being captured.  When last seen,  all  the 
     other Americans were still in the wreckage,  and enemy troops (the 
     U.S. Army says they were Viet Cong; the U.S. Marines say they were 
     North  Vietnamese  Army -  possibly a joint force  of  both)  were 
     tossing  grenades  toward the aircraft with no attempt to  capture 
     the personnel inside. Wilklow left the crash site,  and noted that 
     gunfire suddenly stopped.  He continued to evade the enemy and was 
     picked up 3 days later. 
       When Mr. Ky,  the Nung Commander was being evacuated by the last 
     helicopter  out,  he noted several men (undoubtedly Dexter and the 
     ARVN) in a large bomb crater firing red star clusters from a flare 
     gun.  Frank  Cius  was taken prisoner and released from  Hanoi  in 
     1973. He was one of the dozen or so captured by the Vietnamese and 
     taken immediately to Hanoi claimed to be the "Laos" prisoners. 
       In  reality,  none  of the dozen had been held in  Laos.  Ronald 
     Dexter,  according  to  Frank  Cius,  was captured,  and  died  in 
     captivity on July 29, 1967.  John Gardner,  according to the USMC, 
     died  on the ground after the crash of the aircraft due to intense 
     enemy  fire.  Billy Laney was last seen lying wounded on the floor 
     of  the  aircraft between a crewmember with a broken back and  the 
     door gunner with a head wound. 
       NOTE:  the  USMC states that Bodden,  crewchief/door gunner  was 
     shot in the back and never left the aircraft, but reports received 
     by the National League of Families indicate that he was definitely 
     alive after the aircraft crashed.  The U.S.  did not know Cius was 
     captured  until  he  was released,  evidently believing  he  never 
     exited the aircraft, and Wilklow had indicated that the Vietnamese 
     were  not  trying  to  capture  the  occupants  of  the  aircraft. 
     Therefore, as door gunner, he must have been the "door gunner with 
     the head wound", and Bodden the "crewmember with a broken back".) 
       Since  1975,  the  U.S.  Government  has received  thousands  of 
     reports relating to Americans still alive in Southeast Asia.  Many 
     of them cannot be dismissed as untrue. Officially,  the U.S.  says 
     it is operating under the assumption that men are being held,  and 
     that  the matter is of "highest national priority".  Yet,  we seem 
     unable  to resolve the mystery.  Nor have they ever negotiated for 
     the "tens of tens" of American prisoners the Lao stated they held. 
       There  can  be no question that the communists know the fate  of 
     those who were last seen on the ill-fated CH 46A that day. The men 
     aboard   this  craft  were  inserted  into  Laos  for  exceedingly 
     dangerous  and  important  missions.  They deserve  no  less  than 
     America's  very best efforts to determine their fates.  If any  of 
     them are alive, they must be brought home. 
     













     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 68
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
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                       " Bring them home --- NOW !!! "
     












     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 69
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
                         ' N a m   T o d a y . . .
     =================================================================

     ASIA MONITOR ON OXFAM REPORT RE VIETNAMESE REFUGEES IN HONG KONG
     
       The  following is a report from Oxfam Hong Kong on the situation 
     concerning  Vietnamese  Boat  People  in  Hong  Kong.    Oxfam  is 
     interested  in gauging the interest and usefulness of this kind of 
     report.   Any  comments  or feedback can be sent care of the  Asia 
     Monitor Resource Center Hong Kong mailbox:  PEG.AMRC
     
          SITUATION REPORT ON VIETNAMESE REFUGEES AND BOAT PEOPLE
     
                         (August - September 1989)
     
                      Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D.
                       NAM VETs PTSD Section Editor
                 The New York Transfer - Staten Island, NY
                              (718) 448-2358
     
       (A) Summary of the HK Present Situation:
     
       In  accordance with the understanding reached at the 1979 United 
     Nations  Conference  on  Vietnamese boat  people,  Hong  Kong  has 
     established and operated a policy of providing first asylum to all 
     arrivals.  On 2 July 1982,  the Hong Kong Government implemented a 
     closed  centre  policy in response to the substantial  arrival  of 
     Vietnamese refugees in the early eighties, hoping that would deter 
     an influx of refugees. However,  the policy did not work.  From 16 
     June  1988,  a new screening policy on Vietnamese boat people  has 
     been  implemented  whereby all new arrivals will be subject  to  a 
     refugee   status  determination  procedure.   All  asylum  seekers 
     arriving in Hong Kong after that day are accommodated in detention 
     centres  pending screening,  and all those asylum seekers who have 
     been  determined  by the screening process as  non-refugees  (i.e. 
     economic emigrants) will also be detained in these centres pending 
     repatriation to Vietnam.
     
       Up  to  21  Sept 1989,  a total of  13,213  Vietnamese  refugees 
     (including  384 VBP have been screened in as refugees)  and 42,870 
     Vietnamese  boat people (including 3,420 screen-outs)  are staying 
     in Hong Kong. The total number is 56,083.
     
      1. Massive influx of boat people from March to August this year:
      - Statistics on the arrival of Vietnamese boat people (VBP) are
        as follows:
     
       (a) Arrival of VBP from March to September, 1987-89
                        1987             1988            1989
     
           March         104              349             842
           April         136             1381            2918
           May            85             2974            9194
           June          405             4043            9663
           July          724             5561            4296
           August        738             2375            4443
           September     285              368             785
           (up to 24 Sept)
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
        (b) Trend of the VBP arrival and resettlement:
                      Arrival            Resettlement
            1980           6788                 37468
            1981           8470                 17818
            1982           7836                  9247
            1983           3651                  4200
            1984           2230                  3694
            1985           1112                  3953
            1986           2055                  3816
            1987           3395                  2212
            1988          18328                  2772
            1989 (up to   32611                  2715
                 24/9/89)
     
       * Ethnic origins of arrivals: Almost all the arrivals since 1980 
     (98%)  have been ethnic Vietnamese.  In 1979 only 27%  of arrivals 
     were Vietnamese and the rest were Chinese.  Since 1980 the balance 
     between  north  and  south Vietnamese has also  changed  with  the 
     proportion of northerners steadily increasing. In 1984,  28%  came 
     from  the northern part of Vietnam.   In 1985,  the proportion was 
     37%; in 1986, 53%; and the figure in 1987 was 70%.  The proportion 
     of  northerners  has increased to 72.2%  during 1988 and to  91.1% 
     during 1989.
     
       2. Local hostility:
        - three large-scale demonstrations were held in the mid-Sept
          1989. More actions against the first asylum policy are 
          likely.
        - these kinds of protests were mainly organized by the local
          community leaders and politicians. Hundreds of people took to 
          the streets, and called for the end of first asylum policy 
          and a firm commitment to mandatory repatriation.
        - these demonstrations should not be regarded as a kind of 
          anti-Vietnamese action. Rather, it is evidence of growing 
          discontent at the hypocrisy of the international communities
          handling of the refugee situation.
       3. Situation of the security units:
        - the security units include the Correctional Services 
          Department (CSD) and the Royal Hong Kong Police. They are
          required to man the Vietnamese boat people detention centres. 
          The police, however, do not have any authority to enforce any 
          camp discipline or routine. The police have no legal 
          authority, no training or orientation, no extra equipment or 
          facilities, and insufficient interpreters to manage the 
          camps. They fear attack by the Vietnamese inmates. Needless 
          to say, the morale of the police is low in the camps.
        - Our observation reveals that the staff shortage of the CSD is
          serious. They appear however to be more experienced in 
          dealing with the boat people and their experience of a 
          correctional approach is evident.
       4. The United Nations High Commission on Refugees (UNHCR):
        - UNHCR is criticized by the HK media, the general public and
          foreign press for being out of touch. Mr. Robert Van Leeuwen,
          chief of UNHCR, said that they would give the first priority 
          to the Chinese press in order to strengthen the ties between 
          UNHCR and the public, nothing seems to have improved at the 
          moment.
        - Relations between UNHCR and security units is relatively 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 71
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

          poor. It is generally found that UNHCR is only saying words
          without deeds. UNHCR has the responsibility for coordination
          amongst various voluntary agencies working in the camps but 
          so far this has fallen short of expectations.
       5. Camp situation:
          (a) Disturbances, escapees, crimes and hunger strike:
        - Several disturbances in the detention centres have occurred 
          in the past three months. Disturbances reported to the public
          are as follows:
                July 23-24         Sek Kong Detention Centre
                July 31 - Aug 1    Shamshuipo Detention Centre
                August 11          Whitehead Detention Centre
                August 27-28       Tai Ah Chau
                August 29          Stonecutters
                September 1-2      Sek Kong
                September 1        Lowu
                September 16       Sek Kong
                September 27       Whitehead
        - A hunger strike at Chi Ma Wan detention centre lasted for 
          five days, from September 12 to 17. A total of 120
          hunger-strikers were involved. They protested against being
          screened out on appeal as economic migrants and demanded to 
          see US consular staff.
        - numbers of boat people have escaped from the different 
          detention centres. Some of them went to other refugee camps 
          while others have hidden elsewhere in the territory.
        - the Police have stated that the rate of crime committed by 
          the Vietnamese in HK is higher than the general crime rate of 
          the territory.
        - Disturbances, crimes and escapes have led to the growing
          hostility of the general public.
          (c) Refugee camps:
        - With the implementation of the new screening policy on 16 
          June 1988, the HK government announced the gradual 
          liberalisation of the closed camps. It is the HK government's 
          intention to transform the closed centres into open centres 
          and place them under the management of the UNHCR. Refugees in 
          the open centre have complete freedom of movement and are 
          allowed to take up employment.
        - To date, only two refugee camps are managed by the UNHCR. But
          UNHCR will take over the Bowring closed centre in November 
          and will transform it into an open camp. Sham Shui Po and San 
          Yick closed centres will be closed next year. In other words, 
          UNHCR will take over all the refugee camps and accomplish 
          what has been promised in the previous agreement (i.e. made 
          on September 1988) with HK government.
          (d) Detention centres:
        - VBP who are living in ferries or other unfavorable centres 
          will probably be moved into other detention centres such as
          Whitehead and High Island. Both of them are used for 
          permanent VBP holding centres but they are still under 
          construction. They will become the two major detention 
          centres in HK. The maximum capacity of Whitehead detention 
          centre will be 30,000 while High Island will be over 7,000.
        - There is no plan to build any other major detention centre in
          the near future because of the local hostility. Mr. Mike 
          Hanson, the Refugee Coordinator of the HK government, said 
          that the newcomers will very probably be kept in Tai Ah chau 
          if the massive influx of VBP continues next year. But its 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 72
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

          capacity has not yet been determined.
     
      (B) Recent Development of Cholera Outbreak:
       1. On 8 Sept 1989, the cholera outbreak was claimed to be under
          control by the Department of Health. According to data from 
          the Government Information Services on 25 Sept, all the 
          patients suffering from cholera were discharged.  A total of 
          21 cases were confirmed, the youngest of whom was an eight-
          month-old boy. After the outbreak, about 95 per cent of the 
          boat people from Tai Ah Chau have taken the oral preventive 
          medicine against cholera.
       2. All the 4,500 boat people on Tai Ah Chau were moved to Hei
          Ling Chau Detention Centre (HLC) on 11 Sept, hoping the 
          cholera among the boat people can be contained by holding 
          them in quarantine on Hei Ling Chau. The original 3,000 
          inhabitants on HLC were then evacuated to the Whitehead 
          detention centre in Shatin. HLC, in fact, has been used to 
          accommodate Vietnamese refugees for years and has more 
          facilities for the VBP such as water supply, electricity, 
          toilet, cooking facilities and the like. In other words, 
          their living conditions have improved. However, it is worth 
          noting that the maximum capacity of HLC is merely 2,880. This 
          means the camp has to cope with 50 per cent overcrowding. 
          Also, conditions for people moved out of HLC to Whitehead 2C 
          have worsened.
       3. Tai Ah Chau island camp will not be closed after a cleanup,
          and will probably be used as a reception centre, with maximum
          capacity of 1,200. The United Nations High Commissioner for 
          Refugees (UNHCR) is studying the possibility of taking over 
          and running Tai Ah Chau as a centre to house newly-arrived 
          Vietnamese boat people. The capacity of this centre has not 
          yet been determined, ranging from 1,200 to 20,000. If so, the 
          Vietnamese will be involved in the day-to-day running of 
          their lives with the assistance of aid agencies. The police 
          presence will be minimal, along the lines of any normal 
          community. Nevertheless, Mr. Mike Hanson, the Refugee 
          Coordinator of Hong Kong Government, pointed out a lot of 
          problems that will be faced by UNHCR. These include: first, 
          how to supply electricity, clean water and other basic 
          facilities in a barren island; second, how to provide the 
          daily necessities to an outlying island; third, how to handle 
          the inhabitants during the typhoon season; fourth, what is 
          the maximum capacity of the centre; fifth, the security 
          problem.
       4. Nevertheless, between the beginning of the month and Sept 25, 
          115 cases of malaria were diagnosed from the former Tai Ah
          Chau inmates, and another 100 are believed to have symptoms 
          of the disease.
      (C) Progress of the voluntary repatriation, screening and
          resettlement:
        - voluntary repatriation appears to be unsuccessful at the
          moment. Only 264 people have returned to Vietnam under this
          scheme, with 730 still in the pipeline. There is no shortage 
          of voluntary returnees at the moment. UNHCR said that problem 
          is mainly due to the slow pace of the Vietnam's screening 
          process.
        - the process of screening has been speeded up. About 400 VBP
          can be screened every week. However, the prime concern of the
          UNHCR is the fairness of the screening procedure.
     
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     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

        - the process of resettlement is still slow. Although Britain 
          has promised to take 2,000 refugees over the next three 
          years, the last quota of 468 which should have been taken 
          from HK by the end of June still remain to date. 
          Consequently, HK people generally believe that HK people are 
          let down by British government.
        - So far this year, Canada leads the table for resettlement 
          having taken 1,080 refugees, while the United States has 
          taken 710 and Australia 419. The expected figure of 
          resettlement for Vietnamese refugees this year is: Canada 
          1,800, US 1,000 and Australia at least 700. But historically, 
          US has taken more refugees than any other country.
      (D) Oxfam HK plans for the future:
        - staff and working group members visited three detention 
          centres, including Whitehead, Sek Kong and Chi Ma Wan, in
          September. The facilities in Whitehead and Chi Ma Wan are
          basically sufficient as compared to others. The atmosphere is
          more peaceful and calm. Relations between security unit,
          Correctional Services Department (CSD) and VBP are fairly 
          good and cooperative. But in Sek Kong, the atmosphere is 
          tense.  Policemen are generally afraid of being attacked by 
          the Vietnamese inhabitants. Thus, the main concern of the 
          police force serving there is to safeguard themselves rather 
          than fulfil the basic needs of the VBP. Meanwhile, it was 
          found that most of the adult VBP, especially the single young 
          men, had nothing to do in Sek Kong detention centre. Children 
          were walking around without schooling and toys. The situation 
          in Sek Kong was quite primitive in this sense and more 
          services should be provided immediately.
        - based upon these findings, Oxfam HK hopes to support more
          projects in detention centres. In the very near future, we 
          will work with HK government and other voluntary agencies to 
          have a large-scale winter clothing collection for the VBP.
     
                        Source: PeaceNet reg.seasia
     























     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 74
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

          Campaign Formed to End U.S. Support of the Khmer Rouge
     
                   by: Charles Scheiner (igc:cscheiner)
                             January 26, 1990
     
                      Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D.
                       NAM VETs PTSD Section Editor
                 The New York Transfer - Staten Island, NY
                              (718) 448-2358
     
     As   the  Vietnamese  military  withdrawal  from  Cambodia   nears 
     completion,  and as international maneuvering around the future of 
     this  decimated  country seems to take a new turn  every  week,  a 
     coalition  of  U.S.  organizations has come together to  form  the 
     Campaign to Protect Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge.
     
     U.S.  economic,  moral,  and political support for the Khmer Rouge 
     and  Prince  Sihanouk  is the latest atrocity in more  than  three 
     decades  of American horrors inflicted on the people of Indochina. 
     It sabotages sincere, hopeful efforts to prevent escalation of the 
     Cambodian  civil war and facilitates a reprise of the genocide  of 
     1975-78,  when  over  1,000,000 Cambodians were  killed.  Official 
     obsession  with  Vietnam,  combined with support for  the  Chinese 
     regime,  has blinded the Bush Administration not only to issues of 
     humanity  and justice (not unusual),  but also to what best serves 
     American   interests.   Even   within   the  media   and   liberal 
     establishment,  there  is consensus against U.S.  support for  the 
     Khmer Rouge.
     
     But  the  peace  movement,  by and large,  has  been  silent.  The 
     Campaign  to  Protect  Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge will  fill  a 
     vacuum,  providing  the vehicle for concerned Americans to work to 
     change U.S. policy.
     
     Initiated  by  some Boston activists,  the one-year  campaign  was 
     kicked  off at a Washington meeting on January 12-13,  attended by 
     75  people  from more than 35 organizations.  The  meeting,  which 
     included peace, religious,  development,  refugee relief,  Vietnam 
     veterans,  solidarity,  Cambodian-  American,   and  human  rights 
     groups,  unanimously agreed that the Khmer Rouge can have no place 
     in  Cambodia's future,  and that covert and overt U.S.  government 
     support for any Cambodian formation which includes the Khmer Rouge 
     must stop. The Campaign adopted the following Statement of Belief:
     
       We believe  that  the  Cambodian  people   have a  right  to
       self-determination  and  to a free, neutral, and independent
       Cambodia.   The  Cambodian  people  must  decide  their  own
       political  future.  However,  we also believe that the Khmer
       Rouge, as a political/military entity which has  engaged  in
       genocide against the Cambodian people, has no moral right to
       a place in the future of Cambodia.
     
       We  believe  that the policy of the United States government
       should support a settlement of the Cambodian crisis based on
       the exclusion of the Khmer Rouge.
     
     Because  of the diverse membership of the Campaign,  more specific 
     U.S.  policy  objectives are still under discussion.  The campaign 
     will  incorporate  some revision of the following  goals,  with  a 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 75
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     structure  that  allows some church-based  and  Cambodian-American 
     groups to participate without explicitly endorsing the goals:
     
       - Vote to exclude the Coalition Government of Democratic 
         Kampuchea (Sihanouk's CGDK) - dominated by the Khmer Rouge - 
         from the U.N., leaving the seat empty pending a negotiated 
         settlement.
       - End diplomatic support and de facto recognition of the CGDK as 
         the legitimate government of Cambodia.
       - Press the U.N. and Thailand to establish a neutral refugee 
         site with adequate international support, guarantee freedom of
         movement (including the option of voluntary repatriation) to 
         all Cambodians in all camps along the Thai-Cambodian border. 
         [Many of these camps are Khmer Rouge bases and recruiting 
         centers.]
       - Provide humanitarian support and aid through the U.N., only to 
         civilian camps to which no military force has access.
       - End all U.S. aid funnelled through the U.N. to the military
         camps, military personnel, and officials of the Khmer Rouge 
         and its allies.
       - End all covert U.S. aid and operations on the Thai-Cambodian
         border.
       - Withhold overt U.S. aid of all forms from any group allied
         with the Khmer Rouge.
       - Use U.S. influence with Thailand to end the critical 
         collaboration of the Thai military with the Khmer Rouge 
         through logistical and combat support, deliveries of Chinese 
         weapons, providing sanctuary, and forcing refugees to live 
         under Khmer Rouge rule.
       - Provide immediate humanitarian and development aid to help
         people in Cambodia as they rebuild their lives.
       - End the U.S. economic embargo against Cambodia.
       - Pressure China to end their support of the Khmer Rouge.
       - Support an international tribunal to try the Khmer Rouge
         leadership for genocide.
     
     The  Campaign  adopted  a  three-level  structure,  with  Sponsors 
     (organizations  who  will  actively carry out  the  campaign,  and 
     donate  money  or other resources),  Endorsers  (organizations  or 
     individuals  who  publicly support the campaign),  and  Networkers 
     (who  will  work with the campaign,  but cannot publicly  identify 
     with it or support all goals). There be two advisory committees -- 
     one  of notable public figures,  and another of leading members of 
     the Cambodian-American community. An office, with paid staff, will 
     be  opened  in Washington;  AFSC,  Oxfam,  and the  Federation  of 
     American Scientists have each committed $5,000 to get the campaign 
     started.  More money will be needed,  and the Asia Resource Center 
     can  accept  tax-deductible  contributions,   earmarked  "Cambodia 
     Project."
     
     A Steering Committee will guide the campaign, and other committees 
     will  deal with outreach,  Congressional strategy,  and  different 
     regions  or constituencies.  Among the tactics under consideration 
     are a newspaper advertisement, grassroots education, Congressional 
     lobbying,  media outreach (including the use of the new video Year 
     Ten),  and  working with the refugee relief and Cambodian-American 
     communities.
     
     The  January  13  Paris meeting on Cambodia was happening  as  the 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 76
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     Campaign  was  forming,  and  the Steering  Committee  telegraphed 
     Secretary  of State James Baker and issued a press  release.  Anne 
     Gallivan  of Boston,  an organizer of the Campaign,  said "Pol Pot 
     and  his  Khmer  Rouge  practically  destroyed  Cambodia  and  the 
     Cambodian  people,  and yet the Bush administration provides these 
     killers critical material and diplomatic support through a variety 
     of channels."
     
     Until the Washington office opens, the Campaign can be reached c/o 
     AFSC, 2161 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge MA 02140. Phone contact 
     can  be  made  through Paul  Shannon  (617/497-5273),  Ros  Winsor 
     (617/566-5215),  or Kathy Knight (617/965-2422),  or through me on 
     Peacenet (igc:cscheiner).
     
                      Source: PeaceNet cdp:reg.seasia
     











































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 77
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                  PEACE BRIGADES INTERNATIONAL IN SE ASIA
     
                      Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D.
                       NAM VETs PTSD Section Editor
                 The New York Transfer - Staten Island, NY
                              (718) 448-2358
     
     Peace Brigades International,  a Gandhian organization which works 
     in areas of violence around the world, is currently involved in or 
     developing, projects in Sri Lanka, and Burma.
     
     Peace  Brigades  sends unarmed peace teams invited into  areas  of 
     violent  repression or conflict.  These teams can flexibly  pursue 
     avenues not open to governments or political groups. Their work is 
     to   reduce   the  violence  and  support  local  social   justice 
     initiatives  through  a)protective  accompaniment of  those  whose 
     lives   are  threatened;   b)fostering  reconciliation  and  peace 
     dialogue among conflicting parties; and c)  educating and training 
     in nonviolence and human rights.
     
     Projects  being developed/overseen out of P.B.I.'s SE Asia section 
     are a presence in refugee camps on the Burmese/Thai border,  and a 
     reconstruction/reconciliation team in Sri Lanka.
     
     BROAD BASED SUPPORT MAKES THESE PROJECTS POSSIBLE.
     Contact:
                         International Secretariat
                       Peace Brigades International
                           4722 Baltimore Avenue
                          Philadelphia, Penn. USA
                          (215) 724-1464/727-0989
     
                       Source: PeaceNet   reg.seasia
     

























     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 78
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
                      R e m e m b e r   T h e m ! ! !
     =================================================================

                     Vietnam -- The Forgotten Warriors
     
                               By Jack Jones
                   Rochester, NY Democrat And Chronicle
     
                           Input by: Terry Hayes
                            Waterloo, New York
     
     Groveland  -  They tried to talk about the angry and shameful  and 
     confusing things inside them when they were 20 years old and first 
     home from the jungles of Vietnam.
          But nobody wanted to listen then.
          In  their forties now,  they're talking and listening to each 
     other  in a barracks-style dormitory like those they shared behind 
     barbed-wire  perimeters at base camps in Southeast  Asia,  obeying 
     orders to wage one of their nation's most divisive wars.
          But  this time,  instead of Army green they're wearing prison 
     green  -  and  they're behind a razor-wire perimeter at  Groveland 
     Correctional Facility.
          "I'm  43 and it's the first time I've been in prison and it's 
     devastating,"  said Edward Spinner.  "But for the first time in my 
     life,  I've  got  somebody to talk to about all this garbage  I've 
     been  carrying  around for the past 23 years.  Most of us here  in 
     this  room  are over 40 and we're in prison for the first  time  - 
     because of the amount of anger that built up inside us for so long 
     over Vietnam."
          Spinner,  serving  a three-year sentence for a crime he would 
     only  describe  as "a violent felony,"  is one of the 30  veterans 
     participating  in  a  unique  and  intensive  residential  therapy 
     program at this medium security prison in Livingston County.
          The men live and sleep side-by-side,  as they did in Vietnam, 
     and  spend  most of their days and nights walking with each  other 
     through the nightmares and psychological minefields of the past.
          Unlike most felons, who embark early on a criminal career and 
     wind up behind bars in their youth, "these men are not your career 
     criminals," said prison counselor David Warne, who established and 
     coordinates   the  Veterans  Residential  Therapeutic  Program  at 
     Groveland.
          "These incarcerated veterans are truly the forgotten warriors 
     of Vietnam," said Warne.  "A lot of them just finally lost control 
     after  using drugs and alcohol for more than 20 years to block out 
     the  memories  of the day their buddy's brains got blown all  over 
     their face.
          "They're  offenders who did something wrong,  and they've got 
     to be punished for their crimes. But they also have special needs. 
     They're  also the same men who fought and bled in Southeast  Asia. 
     And  finally,  after  20 or 25 years,  they're back together as  a 
     team, working with a common objective - to finally help each other 
     work out the problems that put them here."
          Walking  through  the veterans'  dormitory at Groveland is  a 
     walk  down  the  corridors  of memory to a  military  barracks  in 
     Vietnam on an inspection day.
          Rosaries  and  religious  medallions hang like  dogtags  from 
     chains  that  are  draped across the ends of tightly  made  bunks. 
     Framed snapshots of wives, girlfriends and children smile from the 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 79
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     nightstands that also hold Father's Day cards,  birthday greetings 
     and other mementoes of "the world".
          Floors  and  walls are polished to a mirror-like shine  in  a 
     dust-free  dormitory  that has the look and smell of  a  well-kept 
     hospital ward.
          "You can definitely see they've had military training,"  said 
     Robert  Dickerson,  a  corrections  officer  and  Vietnam  veteran 
     assigned  to  guard his former comrades.  "They keep their  living 
     quarters  cleaner than most people keep their kitchens.  They seem 
     to  be better able than most of the prisoners to handle their  own 
     problems and take care of themselves."
          Dickerson, who served with the Marines in Vietnam in 1969 and 
     1970,  said  that  being a veteran helps him communicate and  keep 
     order among the prisoners he's assigned to guard.
          "I  guess I can kind of understand some of their problems and 
     relate  to  them  better,"  he said.  "I know  what  they've  been 
     through."
          As  a  former New York City firefighter and a  former  marine 
     Corps  reconnaissance sergeant behind enemy lines in Vietnam  from 
     1965 until he was wounded in 1969, Robert Gardner has been through 
     more than most of the inmates.
          Gardner,  44,  has been imprisoned at Groveland for 16 months 
     on  a  three-year  sentence stemming from charges of  robbery  and 
     unlawful imprisonment - of some Vietnamese people.
          "The  drugs finally got to me and I took over a leather store 
     that some Vietnamese people run in Westchester (County)," he said. 
     "It happened because of Vietnam and drugs."
          Like  the other veterans,  Gardner said he never had a chance 
     to  unburden  himself of the memories of fighting and  killing  in 
     Vietnam.  And  even  though he returned to action and danger as  a 
     firefighter  after  being released from a Veterans  Administration 
     hospital, he turned to drugs to dull the unquiet memories of war.
          "There's no doubt in my mind, if we'd had something like this 
     program  so  we could talk this stuff out when we came  back  from 
     Vietnam. I wouldn't be here today."  Gardner said.  "I don't think 
     many of us would."
          Even  though he spent 18 months in VA hospitals  -  including 
     nine  months for depression and drugs - "the treatment we got  was 
     mostly  just to be given more drugs and put back out on the street 
     without counseling for any of the problems that put us there,"  he 
     said.  "You've got to keep in mind the way this country and the VA 
     treated us when we came home."
          Since  joining  the residential therapy program at  Groveland 
     when it began last October, Gardner and other veterans say they've 
     "come  180  degrees in the way we think about ourselves  and  what 
     happened in Vietnam."
          "The camaraderie, working together, helping each other - it's 
     almost  like  being  back in the platoon,"  he  said.  "It's  vets 
     helping vets."
          "We  saw a lot of violence,  a lot of it needless  violence," 
     said  Justo Rosa,  who fought with the First Infantry in 1971  and 
     1972. "And most of us, we were just kids, 17, 18,  19 years old at 
     the time."
          "We were trained to kill, and then we were sent back home but 
     we  were  never untrained.  When we came back,  they made us  feel 
     ashamed of being a Vietnam veteran.
          If we hadn't been in Vietnam at such an early age,  maybe all 
     that  anger  and  stress  wouldn't have been  with  us.   Maybe  I 
     wouldn't  be  here  now at this time in my life for  committing  a 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 80
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     violent felony."
          "Maybe I wouldn't be here either," said Thomas Sanford.  "But 
     because of this vets program, being here had helped me find a part 
     of myself I thought was lost."
          And  Warne said he and other officials inside and outside the 
     prison  are  taking steps to help the veterans stay in touch  with 
     the  "parts they thought were lost,"  after the men pay their debt 
     to society and return to their communities.
          At  Groveland,  the  former soldiers attend daily  counseling 
     sessions  where they confront their lingering anger and aggression 
     and   issues   of  shame  and  guilt  that  have   clouded   their 
     relationships, destroyed their marriages, alienated their children 
     and disrupted their careers.
          Canandaigua  Veterans Affairs psychologist Roger Lyman and VA 
     nurse  James  Robinson,  also  a  Vietnam  veteran,   have  joined 
     volunteer  counselors  from local chapters of Vietnam Veterans  of 
     America  and  the Veterans Outreach Center in Rochester  who  meet 
     with the Groveland veterans once a week.
          "The  residential aspects and the intensive counseling  these 
     guys are getting is something that's unique and progressive," said 
     Lyman.  "The  residential aspect of the program makes an  enormous 
     amount  of good sense.  It's just a shame they had to go to prison 
     to get it."
          Lyman, who heads the post-traumatic stress disorder treatment 
     clinic  for  veterans  at the Canandaigua VA,  said he  and  other 
     psychologists  will provide follow-up counseling for the Groveland 
     veterans after their release from prison.
          The  imprisoned veterans said that getting out -  and staying 
     out - of prison is what their intensive program is about.
          "Being  with a group of people like this,  learning to  trust 
     again, it's a real important experience," said Jerry Bates,  42 of 
     Elmira,  an  infantryman  in Vietnam in 1968 and 1969.  "It's  the 
     closest  I've  got  to people since my friend  from  Watkins  Glen 
     stepped on a land mine and I watched him die in Vietnam.  You just 
     don't get close to people after something like that. And you never 
     forget it.
          "But  getting  on with our lives outside this place  is  what 
     we're  all  about in this group.  There's no substitute for  being 
     free."
     



















     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 81
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                      INTERVIEW A VET -- BEHIND BARS
                              by Daniel Suvak
     
             Source: CCCO News Notes, Fall 1989, Vol 41, No 3
       Published by: CCCO, 2208 South Street, Philadelphia, PA 19146
            CCCO is a center for draft and military counseling.
         For more information, call Lou Ann Merkle at 215-545-4626
     
                      Input by: Kathleen Kelly, Ph.D.
                       NAM VETs PTSD Section Editor
                 The New York Transfer - Staten Island, NY
                              (718) 448-2358
     
         Vietnam  vets  in  prison.   The phrase fixes a  clear  image: 
     Burned-out, wild-eyed, subdued and maybe sedated by ready to go on 
     a  rampage at any moment.   And don't forget the fashion statement 
     -- buttons,  bandanas,  medals,  and insignia salvaged and worn in 
     pride, defiance, or uncertainty.
     
         Bertrand Russell hated national stereotypes.   Said they had a 
     dangerous  tendency  to lead us to prejudgment.   His  warning  is 
     well-advised,  and  it's  doubly  true for  stereotyping  vets  in 
     prison.   On  a  cold,  sunny winter day in rural Western  Ohio  I 
     learned  that  lesson  and found that prisons could be  places  of 
     healing.
     
         It started with CCCO's "Interview a Vet" contest.   I knew the 
     contest  was  intended  to  help young folks to  think  about  the 
     implications of joining the military.   Dave,  a prisoner in Lima, 
     Ohio, saw a chance to bring together imprisoned veterans and young 
     people to discuss matters of deepest consequence to both.
     
         Dave  is struggling to keep together a chapter of the  Vietnam 
     Veterans of America in his temporary prison residence. It has been 
     almost 20 years since the war,  and he sees people still suffering 
     and  even dying from it --  from inside.   He knows those who most 
     need  to  talk about it are the ones who won't even admit  they're 
     veterans.  Dave wrote CCCO after the first year of the contest. He 
     figured that some young people may want to enter the contest,  but 
     they  might  not know any veterans.  Dave was shepherding a  whole 
     company  of vets,  a few of them ready to share their  story,  and 
     many more needing some encouragement to do so. He said that if any 
     young contestant needed a veteran to talk to, members of his group 
     would  be happy to be of service.  Due to their imprisonment,  the 
     entrants would have to do the traveling.
     
         Lou Ann Merkle at CCCO was stopped cold.  A flood of paperwork 
     crosses  her project-laden desk,  but this letter took a  powerful 
     hold  on her spirit.  She contacted the prison authorities and met 
     with  discouragement and delays.   It would have been easy to give 
     up  and forget about this request;  God knows it's hard enough for 
     the  small staff at CCCO to manage the contest and everything else 
     going on now. Lou Ann saw that this person writing from the lockup 
     was doing something worthwhile and needed support.
     
         She  tried again and was discouraged.  Then she thought of  an 
     old friend who lived closer to the prison, had worked in the state 
     correctional   system  a  few  years  ago,   and  would  have  the 
     opportunity  to  recruit a few college students who might want  to 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 82
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     learn  about  Vietnam from some people who had  been  there.   She 
     called me.
     
         Based at a small liberal arts college in Ohio, I felt it would 
     be  easy  to  gather a contingent of students to  visit  the  Lima 
     prison, talk to the veterans there, and come back with stories for 
     the contest essay.  It was easy.  A small but enthusiastic band of 
     students  responded  to  a classroom talk on the  prison  and  the 
     contest. One student was past the contest age limit but decided to 
     go anyway.
     
         We  departed very early in the morning on the second  Saturday 
     in  February.   We coaxed the school's aging diesel Suburban wagon 
     into life, packed the box lunches in the back,  clambered in,  and 
     hit the road -- five students, John,  the sociology professor, and 
     I.
     
         During the four-hour drive across Ohio we got acquainted. Most 
     of  the  students were in their early 20s and their  knowledge  of 
     Vietnam  was spotty.  The sociologist and I coached them on a  few 
     key facts and major events, but the students' main concern was the 
     encounter  they  were  about to have  with  the  prisoners.  Their 
     anxieties  ranged  from fear of harm to worries about  an  awkward 
     social situation. What will I say?  How should I react? Am I up to 
     this?
     
         They  were  doing all the right things to  prepare  --  asking 
     questions, playing roles, and supporting each other. Finally, they 
     felt bolstered enough to try. We got off the freeway,  spotted the 
     sign: "LIMA CORRECTIONAL FACILITY," wheeled down the driveway, and 
     parked. Time for a minor setback.  The sprawling prison was ringed 
     by  a double fence topped with concertina wire.  The sharp angular 
     steel  blades of the coiled wire glistened in the cold winter sun. 
     This was a prison.  It was serious.   There are compelling reasons 
     why people were sent here.
     
         Nervous  laughter punctuated the talk,  now faster and higher-
     pitched, and there were jokes about going back. We kept moving and 
     entered  the outbuilding for screening.  Our papers were in order, 
     and  after  a metal detector search,  our escort took us into  the 
     main building, through the lobby, past the visiting room, and into 
     a  wing of the prison containing activities rooms and offices.  We 
     left  the outside world and were rubbing shoulders with  prisoners 
     on  their Saturday errands --  hearing their jokes and complaints. 
     The  prisoners were sizing up their visitors and seemed to approve 
     the  fact  that it wasn't another "zoo tour,"  but a group with  a 
     real purpose.
     
         After a moment in the corridor,  our escort led us to the room 
     reserved  for the day's interviews.  It was a beautiful  solarium, 
     with  plants  and bay windows.  The afternoon sun splashed in  and 
     softened the atmosphere.
     
         Dave,  our  contact prisoner and head of the veteran's  group, 
     led  in his band of volunteers.  We exchanged greetings and  stood 
     nervously  for  a moment.   Then the prisoners offered us some  of 
     their "street" coffee, a gesture of genuine hospitality.  We broke 
     into groups for the interviews and got down to business.
     
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 83
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

         The words flowed.  For most of us,  that afternoon will remain 
     one of those lifetime-memorable,  perhaps pivotal encounters.  But 
     we came from different perspectives. Now 41,  I was opposed to the 
     draft  in  the late 1960s.  At the time,  I had a strong  personal 
     motivation to closely scrutinize the political context of the war. 
     I, like many of my cohorts, rejected our government's policy.  Now 
     I  was talking to two men who went to Vietnam for the simplest  of 
     reasons:  they  felt  they  should fulfill an  obligation  to  the 
     country.
     
         After two decades, punctuated by books, articles,  editorials, 
     films  and  long periods of inattention,  I felt a  healing.  This 
     personal  exchange  of words restored in me a  connection  between 
     those  who opposed the war and those who fought it.   Yes,  it was 
     the wrong war, but many honest souls fought it for a true, ever so 
     humble reason -- doing one's duty.
     
         Most of the students had a similar reaction. They accepted the 
     decision  to  join  the service to avoid violating  the  law  and, 
     career-minded   themselves,   understood  the  personal  gains  of 
     military  service --  employment,  training,  and benefits.   More 
     importantly,  they  could  also accept and respect those  who  did 
     their  duty,  and even had a little awe of their  bravery.   These 
     young  students were never opposed to the war and were puzzled  by 
     society's reaction -- no parades, no welcome home.
     
         Hours  of  interviews flew by.  As the  afternoon  waned,  our 
     participants exchanged addresses and said goodbye.   We headed for 
     home  as  the prisoners filed back to their  cells.  The  students 
     seemed more matured, more subdued.  They enlivened the return trip 
     with continuous, open exchange.  We stopped for dinner at a small-
     town lounge, and the ... classmates hit the dance floor [as if] to 
     assure themselves they were back.
     
         The  undergraduates'  reactions highlighted a need for careful 
     preparation  and  follow-up  to  help them get  the  most  out  of 
     encounters of this type.   The political and historical context of 
     the  war were important to young people in the 1960s,  but they do 
     not surface as major issues during these interviews.
     
         Questions of self-assurance, duty, honor, and bravery are more 
     likely  to arise,  and they can have a very powerful pull on one's 
     emotions -- overriding any rational understanding of the war,  its 
     causes and campaigns.
     
         The  session was memorable because the young participants  got 
     new  perspectives in a personal way,  while veterans were able  to 
     speak   their  minds  to  willing,   respectful   listeners.   The 
     interchange helped both groups examine their life's courses. These 
     are  very powerful and timely ideas,  especially now that national 
     service  proposals  are mounting and a draft seems waiting in  the 
     wings.
     
         Students  need  preparation to deal with these potent  issues, 
     and  should be able to explore their reactions in a guided setting 
     afterward.   Experiences  such  as  the  one  at  Lima  provide  a 
     foundation for reflective discussion. Key questions would include: 
     What is one's duty to the state?   To whom is this duty owed?   If 
     there  is such a duty,  does one perform it only when coerced?  In 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 84
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     sum: What is an honorable life?
     
         There  is  little doubt we will be able to use these  valuable 
     lessons.  A  contingent of students that missed the trip has asked 
     for  one  next  Spring,  and  wants to see  it  become  an  annual 
     tradition.  Notably,  the  most  interested students are  not  the 
     "peace and social justice"  types on campus,  but come mainly from 
     two  groups:  those studying social institutions,  and those  with 
     career  interests  closely  related to this  type  of  experience, 
     especially  pre-law  majors.  Natural curiosity and  self-interest 
     provide  the motivation for a trip as risky as this one.  Whatever 
     the incentive,  the unexpected benefits were the true reward.  Ask 
     the students.
     
                                  ------
     











































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 85
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

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       XXXXX     /    ~   | :  :  :    .                          XXXX
       XXXXX    /         |`.  :  :  .  .__________               XXXX
       XXXXX   /    ~   ~ ||.` `  : ||  \         /               XXXX
       XXXXX  /  WRITE OR VISIT AN INCARCERATED VETERAN SOON !    XXXX
       XXXXX /        ~   ||  . .'.    /          /               XXXX
       XXXXX/    ~   ~   ~||        ||/          /                XXXX
       XXXXX    ~   ~   ~ ||        ||          /                 XXXX
       XXXXX              ||        ||         /                  XXXX
       XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
       XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
       XXXXX \_________XXXXX________||      XgjpX                 XXXX
       XXXXX           XXXXX                XXXXX                 XXXX
     


     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 86
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                              "WELCOME HOME"
                               Laura Palmer
                   El Paso Times, Sunday March 25, 1990
     
                           Input by: Joyce Flory
               NAM VETs Incarcerated Veterans Section Editor
                    Desert Dolphin BBS - Las Cruces, NM
                              (505) 523-2811
     
                   VETERAN HAD ONLY BRIDGE TO CALL HOME
        Jimmy  Gelinas,  a homeless Vietnam veteran,lived in New York's 
     59th Street Bridge for the last seven years of his life.
        He  collected cans and sold used books on the street to get by, 
     his own career as an East Side florist long since sabotaged by his 
     drinking.
        At the end of each day, Gelinas headed back to the bridge, past 
     a posh health club where yuppie tycoons spend thousands of dollars 
     to get the kind of body that boot camp gave Gelinas for free.
        By  slipping into the base of a cement tower that supports  the 
     bridge,Gelinas  entered a world that was as dark as a dungeon  and 
     as dirty as shame.  After climbing 104 steps,  he reached the ugly 
     space that he diligently tried to turn into a home.
        Rumpled  brown  blankets cover the thick piece of foam he  made 
     into a bed. Above it is a bumper sticker that reads "I am Proud to 
     Be  a  Vietnam  Veteran."  Cans of corn and baked beans  line  his 
     shelves, and his Pall Mall cigarettes are still fresh.
        By  tapping into the nearby power lines,Jimmy managed to rig up 
     an electric light, and for a time, a television.  His black cowboy 
     boots  are where he left them,  near his cassette player and Billy 
     Joel  tapes.  All that is absent is Jimmy,  who was 42 in  January 
     with the bridge traffic thundering overhead.
        His  buddies miss him at Manhattan's Vietnam Veterans  Outreach 
     Center,  where for a year Jimmy had attended a therapy group every 
     Monday night, trying to reassemble his shattered life.
        "As  he kept coming,  he kept opening up,  he was  connecting," 
     says Jose Arroyo, 39, an ex-Marine who says he loved Jimmy for his 
     courage and perseverance. "Every time he came here, he said,'  I'm 
     tired  of living on that bridge.  I'm tired of being on welfare,'" 
     Arroyo says.
        "This was like his home. He knew he was accepted here and loved 
     here. He'd do anything to help out," recalls Bill Ulrich, 39,  who 
     served  with Jimmy in the 3rd and 1st Marine divisions in  Vietnam 
     in  1969 and 1970.  Their emotional reunion at the center came  18 
     years later.
        "To me,Jimmy was a tower of strength," Ulrich says. "It changed 
     me  a  lot by seeing him battle with society and the elements  out 
     there.  He  could  have  said the hell with it and just  given  up 
     completely, which he wouldn't do. He chose to fight."
         Ulrich  says  Gelinas  was  also fighting  his  alcoholism  by 
     attending Alcohol Anonymous meetings.
         Like Gelinas, Ulrich was homeless for two years,  and he knows 
     how  savage life is on the streets.  "It's a nightmare,"  he says. 
     "It  was like being out in the bush again.  You feel like death is 
     always knocking at your door."
         Gelinas also found support at St.  James,  an Episcopal church 
     on  Madison Avenue that is relentlessly committed to the homeless. 
     It was there that his memorial service was conducted.
         Gelinas'  spirit  has fared much better than his body,  to the 
     dismay  and  outrage  of  his friends at the Vet  Center  and  the 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 87
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     church. Gelinas is now a homeless corpse.
         Since  his body was found in February,  the decorated  Vietnam 
     vet  has been in refrigerated storage in the basement of the  city 
     morgue while detectives investigate his death.
         When  that's  over,  his coffin will be loaded on a barge  for 
     Potters Field, where the city buries those who found their hell on 
     Earth.  If  its  bureaucratic requirements can be  satisfied,  the 
     Veterans Administration says it will eventually dig up Gelinas and 
     bury him in a military cemetery.
         Then, maybe as an encore after taps, the military bugler could 
     play "Nowhere to Run,  Nowhere to Hide,"  which was the song Jimmy 
     Gelinas loved best in Vietnam."
     














































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 88
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
         W h e n   t h e   C h a p l a i n   w h i s p e r s . . .
     =================================================================

             PTSD: ANGER (FEAR, MANIPULATIVE, WITHDRAWN, NUMB)
     
                             by: Rev. Ed Brant
                       NAM VETs Protestant Chaplain
                     The Landing Zone - Fall Creek, OR
                              (503) 747-9809
     
     Since my last article,  I've talked with a professional counselor, 
     and after nine years of talking to and with Veterans of our war in 
     Vietnam,  his  observation  was  that regardless  of  nationality, 
     background, race,  combat or support troops,  or whatever the PTSD 
     problem, EVERY VET HAS OR HAS HAD ANGER!  Without exception!
     
     Now on to the continuation of our topic at hand:
     
     ANGER: FEAR
       Any of you remember taking your fear into a combat situation and 
     turning  that fear into anger,  because that was the only way  you 
     could function and still come "home" alive?  The ANGER then giving 
     you  the  discipline  that the Fear would  destroy,  causing  more 
     casualties, you included?
     
       Last  input we mentioned that there is nothing wrong with anger. 
     It  is,  if  I  may,  an emotional function,  that  God  gave  us. 
     Ultimately, then, it is what we do with that anger that determines 
     if it is to be classified as a sin or not (refer to Jesus' driving 
     the money changers out of the temple,  Moses breaking the original 
     stone of Ten Commandments that God Himself had carved.).
     
       So!  It`s interesting that our society seems to accept fear more 
     easily  than  anger!  Here's an example:  Something  happens  that 
     affects a whole city. Maybe an earthquake with big aftershocks. Or 
     a flood that wipes out a large number of houses, or a tornado that 
     everyone sees coming.  It strikes fear into everyone's heart.  Now 
     take  something on a lesser level.  How about a dangerous curve in 
     the  road.  Do  you feel fear?  No!  Why not?  Because you are  in 
     control.  But  there  are those that currently are  classified  as 
     having PTSD in the area of fear!  The civilian side of the coin is 
     called  panic  disorder.   This  kind  of  anger  will  cause  the 
     individual to become withdrawn. S/he hides within themselves. They 
     may  lock  the  door  and  hide under the  bed  for  fear  of  ... 
     something.  They  become  very uncomfortable in a  group  setting. 
     Maybe  they  exhibit an increased and often unexplainable  anxiety 
     about a personal relationship. If a person is heavily dependent on 
     the  approval of others,  then that person will become plagued  by 
     fear. Then,  because they are plagued by fear,  they become angry. 
     They  are angry then they are afraid!  Then they depend heavily on 
     others  approval  of  themselves.  And  once  again,  it  is  more 
     acceptable,  in our society,  to be afraid of God than to be angry 
     with Him.
     
     WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT FEAR?
       The  old  King  James  version  says to  fear  God  in  the  Old 
     Testament.  A better translation might be to reverently trust God. 
     The  Old  Testament was in the Hebrew language and didn't  have  a 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 89
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     word  for  an abstract thought like fear.)  In the New  Testament, 
     (Greek) they did have words for abstract thoughts. It was the most 
     complete  and perfect language that the world has had to date.  It 
     means fear when it says `fear'.
     
     Luke 12:32 says, in part, "Fear not, little flock;  for it is your 
     Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."
     
     Rom.  8:15  "For you have not received the spirit of bondage again 
     to fear; ..."
     
     Heb. 13:5,6 ".. for he has said (God)  I will never leave you,  or 
     forsake you. So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and 
     I will not fear what man shall do to me."
     
     1st  John 4:11-21.  Please look up this passage and read the whole 
     thing.  It's  short,  but to the point.  Here is an excerpt of the 
     passage:  "There is no fear in love,  but perfect love throws fear 
     out, because fear has punishment.
     
     Next lets look at a person who is manipulative in their anger. The 
     first  thing to notice is that these type persons hide their anger 
     very well!  They put a covering on their real self and use various 
     means  to  destroy a group.  They'll invariable  circumvent  their 
     anger  by spreading rumors,  making negative comments in an effort 
     to  undermine  leadership,  friends,  or a whole group of  people. 
     Their  intent  is  overtly  to give out as much  pain  as  they've 
     received!  They'll  never confront their anger,  until God  drives 
     them to that point. And if you recall,  one of the first things we 
     must  do  if we desire healing is to confront that thing  that  is 
     ruining  us!  They  won't even talk to a person in a  face-to-face 
     situation! Here's the problem that invariable crops up in a person 
     like  that:  There's  no way to deal with our anger when we  won't 
     even  admit  that we have anger!  It's all handled in an  indirect 
     manner, and that in itself makes it impossible to confront! Listen 
     for  a person who is always sarcastic.  If you find this one,  you 
     can  be  sure  that s/he is hiding their anger in  their  attitude 
     toward life.  Well,  we have a problem here.  You see,  the Church 
     has,  over  the years taught us that all anger is sin.  Because of 
     this,  the Church has taught,  indirectly,  the people to hide the 
     anger!  But  what does the Bible say?   Remember?  Eph.  4:26  "Be 
     angry, and sin not" and check out Matt. 18:15. It's relevant! It's 
     NOT A SIN TO BE ANGRY!!!! It IS A SIN IF WE DON'T HANDLE OUR ANGER 
     CORRECTLY.  Check Proverbs 15:1,and 21:14.  You'll find a cure for 
     anger.
     
     Next  we  consider  the  person  who  exhibits  his/her  anger  in 
     withdrawal.  Very  briefly,  a  person who withdraws in their  own 
     self, has no outlet. There is no resolution of their anger. Reread 
     the section above,  on the manipulative person.  It all applies to 
     the  one  who withdraws from society,  from  friends,  from  their 
     anger.  It makes for a VERY lonely life!  It'll take a lot of time 
     to  help this person.  Maybe as much as a year or two.  Gain their 
     trust  through  genuine friendship,  real concern for their  well-
     being.  Gradually bring them to a recognition of their anger.  God 
     loves  them,  too.   So  should  you.   Feel  their  hurt,   their 
     frustration, and show genuine concern for them. Be patient,  kind, 
     loving.
     
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 90
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     Last,  consider  the one who is angry,  but numb!  For many of us, 
     this  developed  in  Vietnam,  in the midst of  combat.  (I  know, 
     because this is an area that I have a constant battle with.)  When 
     there was no time to grieve,  we shoved the emotions aside.  Or we 
     put then into a packet to be recalled later,  when there was time. 
     But  we returned to the States and found ourselves in the midst of 
     upheaval  and discontent.  There wasn't time to bring that  hidden 
     packet and to begin to grieve for our lost brothers...  So we kept 
     it in dry dock,  and hid that packet away,  buried it deep.  Well, 
     one writer called the result an "anesthesia of feeling".  It's not 
     apathy, a lack of care or concern, it's just the thing we've tried 
     for years to bring out into the open, and because our friends, our 
     churches,  our  pastors,  our families,  couldn't understand (they 
     weren't  there)  our feelings of resentment (our buddy died,  WHY? 
     The War was unjust, WHY? etc.) got buried deeper and deeper. Those 
     who  couldn't  understand ignored us (Out of  ignorance,  in  many 
     cases)  or  they  just plain didn't even know that we were  there. 
     (How  many  years did YOU work at a job,  before  someone  finally 
     discovered that YOU were a "VET"?)  And so we grieve, and the fire 
     gets hotter. We begin to get angry in public,  hoping hope against 
     hope that SOMEONE will notice us. But they didn't. Or they ignored 
     us. And time passes by. And it keeps on passing by. It goes on and 
     on.  Eventually,  a  lot of us began to realize that "they  didn't 
     care, that we weren't going to be noticed, no matter what,  and we 
     took  the righteous indignation that smoldered within us,  and  we 
     began   the  tedious  process  of  putting  a  thick  overcoat  of 
     anesthesia.  We  became  some of the most calloused people in  the 
     United States.  You see,  when we put our feeling so far down that 
     for  all  practical purposes feeling cease to exist,  then  we  no 
     longer  have  to suffer.  We DO CARE,  but we took  the  shot,  we 
     drowned  ourselves in alcohol,  and put now we don't have to carry 
     the hurt that we buried so carefully. We no longer care,  at least 
     not too much, and we get to the point where we can ...survive.  In 
     the  Church,  or  outside the Church.  We become  "uninvolved"  in 
     anything. We become quiet. We choose to not let our anger be seen, 
     because we care about others. And in the process,  we build walls, 
     big  thick walls,  between what may have been good friends.  Walls 
     between us and almost anything that would cause us to care.  We no 
     longer communicate,  but go into isolation.  We hide in the woods, 
     in  the  underpass,  in the missions,  on the street,  in our  own 
     closet, whatever it may be. And in the process,  we begin the very 
     real process of self destruction. Why?  Because our anger has gone 
     unnoticed,  this  reaction to our anger has pushed us outside  the 
     area of recognition where our healing could begin. A person who is 
     ignored for a long period of time,  or who has been hurt again and 
     again  over  a  long period of time,  may decide finally  to  quit 
     caring. After all, when we don't care,  we can't be hurt -  right? 
     But  only  one thing is wrong with this:  The feeling  of  emotion 
     doesn't go away! We hide them in various levels of inactivity.  We 
     become  extremely  cautious.  We  remove ourselves  from  life  in 
     general. Hey man! We're cool! But herein lies a problem.  You see, 
     we DO CARE! But it's been so long since we've allowed that care to 
     be seen that we've become NUMB! The people around us think that we 
     don't  care.  That we don't possess any ability to function in our 
     society. My brother, my sister, my fellow Vet,  I cry with you.  I 
     have  come back.  I've come home.  Because of one who loves me for 
     what I am. For who I am. His name is Jesus Christ.  And because of 
     that understanding, because He suffered everything and more than I 
     have (He hung on the Cross, and cried out in absolute anguish, "My 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 91
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     God! My God!  Why have you left me?")  I can trust him.  Now I can 
     come out of hiding, and I can confront my anger and I can begin to 
     deal with it. I can finally grieve for my fallen companions.   Now 
     that  I can face the fact that I went into hiding,  that I hid  my 
     emotions, that I ceased, at least outwardly, to care,  I can begin 
     to live again.  How refreshing!  How wonderful!  And it began with 
     God.  He  uses "tools".  The tool may be a friend,  a stranger,  a 
     counselor, a pastor, a fellow Vet.  
     
     If  you  want healing,  I'd recommend Point  Man  Ministries.  The 
     fellows who run the various outposts are all vets, like you.  Many 
     of  us are combat Vets.  We've been there!  We understand.   And I 
     promise  that  we'll accept you for who you are.  Hey!   You  want 
     healing, to finally put this suffering aside, go to a meeting, and 
     let it out. Talk. That's the first step.  Want a newspaper to tell 
     you where to find a POINT MAN meeting?   Leave me a message on the 
     Nam Vet Echo, with your name and address. I'll see that you get on 
     the  mailing list.  My fellow Vet,  We all need healing in various 
     places,  and  areas of life.  Start to seek healing now!  For your 
     health, and the health of your loved ones,  for the health of your 
     relationships. We care.
     
                              Till next time, 
                                 I remain, 
     
                            USMC Ret. Rev. Ed.
     
































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 92
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

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       who also experienced loss   II         IIXXXXXXXXX          XXX
       and grief, guilt and shame,   II         IIXXXXXXXXX         XX
       rejection and betrayal,         I          IXXXXXXXXX
       alienation and estrangement,    I          IXXXX  XX
       isolation and withdrawal.        II          IIXXXX
                                          II          IIX
      Adam and Eve tried to hide from God; II          II
      Moses, born Hebrew and raised Egyptian IIII        IIII
       searched long and hard for his real self; II          II
      Job, losing his children and all he owned,   II          II
       became sorely diseased;                       IIII        III
      Biblical Joseph was rejected by his brothers,      II         II
       lied about and imprisoned;                          I
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                           Matthew 28:20
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 93
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
                     H e r e   c o m e s   M u r p h y
     =================================================================

         An Incomplete List of Murphy's Laws of Combat Operations
     
                    By: Lt. Col Jack Finch, USA (Ret.)
       Published in the VVA Chapter 111 Springfield, MA Newsletter
     
                         Input by: G. Joseph Peck
                         NAM VETs Managing Editor
                       VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                              (413) 443-6313
     
     1.  Military intelligence can be contridiction in terms.
     2.  Recoilless rifles - aren't
     3.  A sucking chest wound is nature's way of telling you to slow 
          down.
     4.  The enemy diversion you are ignoring is the main attack.
     5.  If the enemy is within range, then so are you.
     6.  Friendly fire - isn't.
     7.  If it is stupid and works, then it ain't stupid.
     8.  When you have secured an area, don't forget to tell the enemy
     9.  If you're short of everything, except the enemy, then you are 
          in the combat zone.
     10. Try to look unimportant.  They may be low on ammo.
     11. The easy way is always mined.
     12. Tracers work both ways.
     13. Sh*t happens.
     14. Incoming fire has the right of way.
     15. Teamwork is essential. It gives them other people to shoot at
     16. Never draw fire - it irritates everyone around you.
     17. No combat ready unit has ever passed an inspection.
     18. No inspection ready unit has ever passed combat.
     19. Make it too tough for the enemy to get in and you can't 
          get out
     20. Both sides are convinced they're about to lose, they're both 
          right.
     21. Professionals are predictable, but the world is full of 
          dangerous amateurs.
     22. Fortify your front and you'll get your rear shot up.
     23. When in doubt, empty your magazine.
     24. In war, important things are very simple and all simple 
          things are hard.
     25. Don't look conspicuous, it draws fire.
     26. Communications will fail as soon as you need fire support 
          desperately.
     27. Weather ain't neutral.
     28. Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than you.
     29. Remember, your weapon was made by the lowest bidder.
     30. If you can't remember, the claymore is pointed towards you
     31. All five second grenade fuses are three seconds
     32. The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is 
          incoming friendly.
     33. If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush.
     34. No OPLAN survives first contact intact.
     35. If it flies, it dies.
     36. When you are forward of your position, the artillery will 
          always be short.
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 94
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     37. Suppressive fire - won't.
     38. You are not Superman.
     39. Cavalry doesn't always come to the rescue.
     40. B-52's are the ultimate in close air support.
     41. Sniper's motto: Reach out and touch someone.
     42. Peace is our profession - mass murder's just a hobby
     43. Killing for peace is like whoring for virginity
     44. There's always a way
     45. Murphy was a grunt
     46. It's not the one with your name on it - it's the round 
          addressed "to whom it may concern" ya gotta think about
     47. Remember napalm is an area weapon
     48. Mines are equal opportunity weapons.
     50. There is no such thing as the perfect plan.
     
     The original authors are unknown, probably military instructors 
     like myself, who have generated these lists for their students' 
     amusement.
     








































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 95
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
                        H e a r t s   &   M i n d s
     =================================================================

                                  "TAPS"
                            --from VETS' FORUM
                     "Service To The Alaskan Veteran"
              State of Alaska - Division of Veterans' Affairs
                            Jan/Feb 1990 Issue
     
                         Input by: G. Joseph Peck
                         NAM VETs Managing Editor
                       VETLink #1 - Pittsfield, MA
                              (413) 443-6313
     
       Taps was composed in July of 1862 by Gen. David Butterfield.  He 
     wanted  a  few  bars  that could be  played  exclusively  for  his 
     brigade.  Since the general could neither read nor write music, he 
     sent  for the brigade bugler,  Oliver W.  Norton and whistled  the 
     tune for him.
       A few months later, after a fierce battle,  a funeral took place 
     for  one of the cannoneers.   The enemy was too close to fire  the 
     customary three volleys so the general asked the battery bugler to 
     step  forward  and  sound "Taps".   Ever since,  it has  been  the 
     soldier's final farewell and tribute.
     
       There  are several verses and versions.   One of the most common 
     is:
                         Day is done, Gone the sun
               From the lake, from the hills, from the sky.
                  All is well, Safely rest, God is nigh.
     
                From MSgt. Fred W. Campbell, Jr., U.S. Army
                      Fort Benjamin Harrison, Indiana
     
























     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 96
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                               Life Goes On
     
                              By: Todd Looney
                         NAM VETs Chief - Emeritus
                 Vietnam Veterans Valhalla - San Jose, CA
                        (408) 737-2402 (Mail Only)
     
     I  heard in some old country western song a long time ago a phrase 
     that  has  stuck with me and seems to be appropriate  during  this 
     month  of Tet.   Metaphorically it went something like,  "Memories 
     are like a rearview mirror, the farther you travel the smaller the 
     image gets...".  I probably bastardized the lyric horribly but the 
     point  I'm trying to make is that things happened a long time  ago 
     to all of us and even though the memories diminish with time, they 
     are still there ...  often with a haunting quality we'd rather not 
     experience.   Although  I  didn't  serve  in  Vietnam  during  the 
     infamous Tet invasion of 1968,  I,  like so many Vietnam veterans, 
     have  a "Tet"  memory of my own to live with.   Many of you know I 
     was  a  POW for some time,  but my Tet isn't about that.   My  Tet 
     symbolized  the  frustrations  we  all felt  in  the  Republic  of 
     Vietnam;  trying  to  do  our best with what little  we  had,  but 
     knowing  deep  down that we were there to do a job,  and do it  we 
     must, and then go on with our lives the best we could.
     
     I had been in-country for about 6 months, maybe a little more, and 
     was  a  medic  for a long-range recon team  of  six  guys,  myself 
     included.   I  had  gotten  close to all the members of  my  elite 
     little  team -  a mistake in itself,  but something that  happened 
     nonetheless.  Our gunner (I'll call him Brandy for now)  was a big 
     Texan  hailing  from  a small town called Wink or  something  like 
     that.   Anyway,  Brandy  carried an M-79 grenade launcher and  was 
     damned good with it.   We were on a night patrol tallying movement 
     on  a redball (hard-packed clay trail through the jungle)  when we 
     ran into a little trouble.  Normally during treks like that Brandy 
     loaded  buck  shot into his weapon,  but we had split  into  three 
     teams  of  two  men  and spread out -  Brandy and  I  were  teamed 
     together  that night.   Before we left he slipped the buck out and 
     reloaded his M-79 with tear gas.  I carried a couple grenades with 
     me  also so that in the event 'feces'  hit the fan (grin)  I could 
     chuck  them behind us to help us make our getaway.   Brandy's  job 
     was  to fire the gas at our pursuers and give us time to di-di out 
     of  there  (di-di is Vietnamese for "get the heck out  of  Dodge".  
     [You  may  be  wondering why a medic would be  carrying  grenades, 
     well,  I  found  very  early  on in my first of  four  tours  that 
     scalpels  make rotten weapons,  and a syringe won't save your life 
     when you're being jumped on.  So, like all wizened combat vets,  I 
     carried  an automatic rifle (a Colt Commando Assault Rifle  CAR-15 
     given  to me by a grateful marine under some bridge around  Marble 
     Mountain near Da Nang), a 45 automatic pistol,  and yes,  grenades 
     whenever I could spare the room for them in my medical bag].
     
     Anyway, as you probably might have guessed,  it *did*  hit the fan 
     and  we were forced to book out of there and regroup with the rest 
     of  our  team  at a predesignated spot near the mouth of  a  small 
     stream running along the trail we had been watching.  Brandy and I 
     had to run full out about a thousand yards or so to our rendezvous 
     position,  the last leg through a rice paddy.  Just as we got near 
     the  opposite  bank of the muddy paddy,  Brandy took a hit in  the 
     back  that carried all the way through his body,  exiting from his 
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 97
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     stomach.   Luckily,  the  rest of our team heard the gun fire  and 
     started  covering our escape from a knoll ahead of us.   I dragged 
     Brandy  out of the water and shoved him behind a tree and  started 
     packing his belly and back with cotton dressing,  finally with mud 
     to  staunch the bleeding (I figured that if I could just save  his 
     life  they could cure the infection from the putrid mud back at Da 
     Nang).   Although  the  ensuing fire fight only lasted for  a  few 
     minutes,  it  seemed like hours as I worked to save Brandy's life, 
     him  blabbing  incoherently  to me about home and his  family  the 
     whole time.   I think he told me his whole life story during those 
     last  five  or six minutes.   Just before he died in my  arms,  he 
     looked  up at me and smiled,  then reached up and touched my  neck 
     with his finger tips.   I think it was his way of saying,  "Thanks 
     bro,  I love you ...  goodbye".   Although this happened a million 
     years  ago,  I'll always carry with me the image of his face,  the 
     warmth  of his touch,  and the rush of emotion flooding through my 
     body as he gasped his last breath and closed his eyes.
     
     What  I'm leading to is that although the event of Brandy's  death 
     affected  me with unbridled intensity,  I was eventually forced to 
     deal  with it,  put it behind me,  and go on with my  life.   This 
     process took ten long years, and only came about after I spent six 
     months  in a mental rehabilitation facility at our local  Veterans 
     Administration facility in Menlo Park, California.  We all have to 
     look  our "Tet's"  right in the face and deal with them sooner  or 
     later.  If we don't, we end up derelict in our responsibilities to 
     not only ourselves, but to our families,  friends,  and society in 
     general.   One  of the best methods for me has been to utilize the 
     International Vietnam Veterans EchoConference (IVVEC) as a support 
     network.   When  I started the IVVEC several years ago,  it was  a 
     selfish  effort intended to link me up with other Vietnam veterans 
     who  could  understand  what  I went through and help  me  to  get 
     through the rough times in my life back then.   What it turned out 
     to be, of course,  was a support network for thousands of veterans 
     around  the  world who just need to be heard now  and  then;  they 
     simply  need  to  get things off their chests and  be  understood.  
     Without help from many kind and generous people,  Joe Peck to name 
     one, this "stepping stone"  to recovery would not exist.   The NAM 
     VET  is our way of extending our sphere of influence even  further 
     than  the  realm  of  the  computers and  telephone  lines  it  is 
     generated  upon (I found a printed copy on a San Jose Transit  bus 
     one afternoon last year!).
     
     No  one  can  take responsibility for your recovery,  that  is  an 
     element of growth you will have to take control of yourself.   But 
     you  are not alone.   Take advantage of the IVVEC and the NAM  VET 
     and *use*  them to your advantage!  If you have input,  we are all 
     more  than  pleased to provide feedback if that is what you  want.  
     You  can easily and inexpensively do this by dialing up on of  the 
     local  IVVEC VetNet nodes in your local area (a loooooong list  of 
     nodes  is  available  at the end of this issue  of  NAM  VET),  or 
     compose an article for one of the enlightening sections of the NAM 
     VET  and  ask  your  local  sysop  to e-mail  it  to  one  of  the 
     responsible editors listed on the title page.   Either way,  *you* 
     must take some responsibility for your own recovery, and these are 
     but two of the many healthy outlets at your disposal.
     
     We want to hear from you.  Until next month,  think happy thoughts 
     and be happy.  You have friends who care about you.
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 98
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
                                Todd Looney
     
























































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 99
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
                   N o t i c e s   o f   I n t e r e s t
     =================================================================

                 Amputee Support Group - Phone or Pen-Pal
     
                           Input by: Bill Baughn
                       DD Connection 1, Arlington TX
                      (817/640-7880) (Opus 1:130/10)
     
     The North Texas Amputee Support Group was founded in January 1988
     to  provide peer support to new amputees in our area. We publish a 
     monthly  newsletter which attempts to inform and educate  amputees 
     and  persons  affected by limb deficiencies,  such as  Thalidomide 
     survivors.  We are the only group in the U.S.  which is completely 
     independent  of the medical industry and are therefore able to act 
     as honest advocates for the population we represent. 
      
     Our  original  intent  was to help amputees locally,  but  we  are 
     receiving   requests for information from as far away as  England.  
     We  are slowly building a data base of limb deficient persons  who 
     are  willing to contact others in need of their advice.   This  is 
     especially  important  with children and those with multiple  limb 
     loss who have no local role models. 
      
     We  feel  sure that many of our members can benefit  from  contact 
     with  Vietnam Veterans who have coped with limb loss and,  perhaps 
     some  of  the information and contacts we can offer will help  the 
     veteran as well.   
      
     We will be happy to send our newsletter to anyone who requests it.
      
                               All The Best,  
      
                                Bill Baughn
                     North Texas Amputee Support Group
                               5427 Redfield
                    Dallas, Tx 75235    (214) 631-7438
      
     *** Those who have been down the road can best point the way. *** 
     


















     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 100
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     USS Liberty Reunion
     
     By: Joe Meadors
     SeaBat BBS
     Home Of USS Liberty Veterans Association (1:160/230)
     
     The USS Liberty Veterans Association has just started making preparations for 
     a reunion in Washington, DC in June, 1991.
      
     We're ever on the watch for newly-found survivors, former crewmen, family and 
     "other participants" (i.e., pilots sent to our rescue, crewmen of USS Massey, 
     USS Davis or USS America, etc.) who would either like to attend or just 
     contact us to share their experiences.
      
     If you know of any, please have them contact us at:
      
     USS Liberty Veterans Association
     P.O. Box 789
     Woodinville, Washington  98072
      
     Thanks,
      
     Joe Meadors, Chairman
     



































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 101
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                            THE CARIBOU PROJECT
                               Jan Gerstner
                             1049 Milwaukee St 
                         Delafield, WI  53018-1626
                              (414) 646-8965
     
                           Input by: Rick Stolz
                       NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor
                    The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin
                               (414) 567-0437
     
       I am doing an historical project on the Army CV-2 / USAF C-7 
     Caribou.  I need to find people from any service who came into 
     contact with the aircraft during the period 1959 - 1980, in 
     Vietnam and elsewhere.
       Vietnam vets from the following areas are particularly
     needed:
          The siege of Dak To;
          The siege of Dak Seang;
          The siege of Khe San;
          Ben Het;
          Army operations against NVA/VC units prior to 1967;
          Special Forces, especially 5th Special Forces;
          Rangers;
          LRRPS who were dropped from and recovered by Caribous;
          Personnel from Fire Base Snuffy;
          Personnel from Fire Base David (O Rang, Cambodia);
          Air America personnel who operated Caribous;
          VNAF Caribou personnel;
          Thailand IRAN personnel;
          Other Army ground units who were supported by Army and USAF
           Caribou units;
          U.S. Air Force personnel who operated/supported Caribou
           operations after March, 1972;
          Army ground units who were evacuated by Caribous after
           March, 1972;
          Aerial Port personnel;
          ALCC and ALCE personnel;
          Army Caribou Aviation Company, and USAF Squadron Commanders;
          ANYONE who can evaluate the effectiveness of Caribou 
           operations and support.
     
       I was an Air Force Caribou pilot 1970-71.  Today I am a
     professional aviator and freelance writer, specializing in
     aviation topics.
       This history of the Caribous is using the official records
     as a base, but will tell the story in the words of the people who
     were there.  I need narrative histories.
       To date, I have 400 Caribou pilots from the Army and Air
     Force on my roster, and the support of the USAF Office of
     History, the Air Force Archives and the Army Otter-Caribou
     Association.  Information has also been contributed by the
     de Havilland Corporation and the Rand Corporation.
       ANYONE who had contact with a Caribou is urged to contact
     me.  Many times even the simplest addition has proved to be one
     of the more valuable.  If you know someone else who may have
     operated, supported, depended upon, loved or hated a Caribou,
     please have them contact me.
       I can be reached through EXEC-PC or at the following
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 102
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     address:
     
                            THE CARIBOU PROJECT
                               Jan Gerstner
                           1049 Milwaukee Street
                         Delafield, WI  53018-1626
                        (414) 646-8965  <1200 N81N>
     



















































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 103
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                   Cerebral Malaria and Relation to PTSD
     
                              by: Rick Stolz
                      NAM VET MIA-POW Section Editor
                   The Reunion BBS - Okauchee, Wisconsin
                              (414) 567-0437
     
     Anyone having information on Cerebral malaria, and studies done in 
     Iowa last few years as to its relation to PTSD,  please call Chuck 
     Howard, 708-479-1426. Either clinic, doctor, results, new studies, 
     etc. would be appreciated. Original study mentioned in a First Cav 
     Newspaper about 3 years ago.
     














































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 104
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                          Help for Homeless Vets"
     
                              By: Jim Vaughan
                         Greenfield, Massachusetts
     
     Chapter  232 of VVA in Greenfield,  Massachusetts is on a campaign 
     to  provide  transitional housing for single Vets and families  of 
     Vets   to  help  them  acquire  permanent   housing.    Expertise, 
     volunteers  and financial support is welcome!   Anyone wanting  to 
     get involved on any level with this project can and should contact 
                       Richard C. Rivers, President 
                      Chapter 232 at (413) 648-9744.         
     
                                  Thanks!   
                
                                  Jim V.
     










































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 105
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                       Help for Children of Veterans
     
                              By: Robert Knee
          -=[*] DE OPRESSO LIBER [*]=-  5th S.F. GRP. (1:105/204)
     
     The  Spina  Bifida Assoc.  of America (SBAA)  has been  awarded  a 
     $359,255  grant by the Agent Orange Class Assistance Project for a 
     program  designed to enable the children of Vietnam veterans  with 
     severe disabilities, and the families of those children, to pursue 
     more fully integrated, productive and independent lives.  The SBAA 
     program  will provide direct assistance to an anticipated  700-900 
     children  and/or their families over the grant period (10/19/89 to 
     10/19/90), in the form of outreach, assessments,  case-management, 
     independent  living  skills  training,   training  in  countenance 
     management and provision of rehabilitative and adaptive equipment. 
     The SBAA will work in cooperation with veterans organizations such 
     as  the Vietnam Veterans of America and the Paralyzed Veterans  of 
     America  and  various government agencies in  delivering  services 
     under this project.
     
     Any Vietnam veteran who served in or near country between 1961 and 
     1972 and has a child with a severe disability is eligible for this 
     program.  The  veteran does not have to be living with the  child, 
     and adopted children also qualify. Please call SBAA at their toll-
     free number for more information:
                              1-800-872-8058. 
     
































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 106
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                    "MINI" WALL SCHEDULE FOR JUNE 1990
     
                               By: Jim Gave
                       Director, Lake County VIETNOW
                               P. O. Box 514
                              Zion, Illinois
     
     Lake County VIETNOW, in Lake County Illinois (just north of
     Chicago) will be displaying our half scale "Mini" traveling wall
     at the Naval Air Station, Glenview Illinois Air Exposition on the
     23rd and 24th of June 1990.  From the 25th through the 30th of
     June the wall will be at Kaskaskia College in southern Illinois
     for the week long Veterans Awareness Week Celebration.
     
     For further information on Lake County VIETNOW activities and
     the "Mini" wall schedule, contact:
     
                            LAKE COUNTY VIETNOW
                                P.O.BOX 514
                            ZION,ILLINOIS 60099
     
                       or contact me personally at:
     
                           (708) 657-2345 (work)
                           (708) 249-1467 (home)
     

































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 107
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     It's finally here - a patch which acknowledges the other side 
     of the Vietnam Veteran:  His wife!
       Hardly needing any explanation, it is multicolor with Red,
     White, Blue, Green and Gold for the Map of Vietnam. 
       While the text drawing below doesn't really do it justice, I
     think if you run it out on your printer, you'll sorta get the 
     idea of how special this unique patch is.
       They are available for $5 each from VETLink #1 - Dept. 65
     P O Box 2056  Pittsfield, MASSACHUSETTS 01202 
         (Please allow 4-6 weeks for delivery)
     
                   @@@@@@@@@@              @@@@@@@@@@
                @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@          @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
             @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@      @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
           @@@@@@@@         @@@@@      @@@@@         @@@@@@@@
          @@@@                 @@@    @@@                 @@@@
         @@@@                     @@@@@                    @@@@
        @@@@                                                @@@@
       @@@  V  I  E  T  N  A  M    V  E  T  S     W  I  F  E  @@@
      @@@                                                      @@@
     @@@           :@@@@@@@@@@@:        :@@@@@@@@@@@:           @@@
     @@@          @.............@      @.............@          @@@
     @@@         @...............@    @...............@         @@@
     @@@        @.................@  @.................@        @@@
     @@@       (...................@@...................)       @@@
     @@@       @.............             ..............@       @@@
     @@@       @.............. MAP OF USA ..............@       @@@
     @@@       @.................      .................@       @@@
     @@@       @................. WITH .................@       @@@
      @@@       @..............         ...............@       @@@
      @@@       @............... MAP OF ...............@       @@@
       @@@      (........                       .......)      @@@
        @@@      @......  VIET NAM SUPERIMPOSED ......@      @@@
         @@@      @........                 .........@      @@@
          @@@      @..........  OVER IT ............@      @@@
           @@@   I  @ ............................ @  N   @@@
            @@@      @............................@      @@@
             @@@      @..........................@  A   @@@
              @@@   S  @........................@      @@@
               @@@       @....................@  M    @@@
                 @@@  T   @..................@      @@@
                  @@@      @................@      @@@
                   @@@  A    @............@  Y    @@@
                    @@@       @..........@       @@@
                     @@@  N     @......@   M    @@@
                      @@@         @..@         @@@
                       @@@  D      @@         @@@
                        @@@                  @@@
                          @@@    B   Y     @@@
                           @@@            @@@
                            @@@          @@@ 
                             @@@        @@@
                               @@      @@
                                @@    @@ 
                                 @@  @@
                                   @@
                (c) 1988 VVA Chapter #65  Pittsfield, MA
     

     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 108
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
                  C o n c e n t r a t e d   S e r v i c e
     =================================================================

          VETERAN SERVICE INFORMATION AVAILABLE AT VETLink #1
     VETLink #1 and its sponsor, Berkshire Veterans Center, Inc., have
     been in the process of creating an on-line database/information 
     referral source for our nations veterans and their dependents.  
     We've sent a letter to the Director/Commissioner of all 50 states 
     and a few territories requesting any veteran-related information 
     they'd wish to share.  To date, we've received replies from the 
     following states/territories:
     
       ALABAMA (Frank D. Wilkes, Director)
       ALASKA (Charles T. Borg, Director)
       CALIFORNIA (Jesse G. Ugalde, Director)
       CONNECTICUT (Joseph C. Barber, Deputy Commissioner)
       FLORIDA (S. F. Stover, Director)
       GEORGIA (Pete Wheeler, Commissioner)
       ILLINOIS (John W. Johnston, Director)
       INDIANA (S. Jeanne Loveless, Program Coordinator)
       IOWA (Dale Renaud, Director)
       LOUISIANA (Printice A. Darnell, Executive Director)
       MINNESOTA (Terrence A. Logan, Director, Agency Relations)
       MISSOURI (William V. Haynes, Director)
       NEW HAMPSHIRE (Conrad V. Moran, Director)
       NEW JERSEY (William G. Kowalski, Director)
       NEW YORK (Tom Lewis, Director)
       NORTH CAROLINA (Charles F. Smith, Assistant Director)
       OHIO (Col. John P. Seimer <Ret>, Director of Veteran's Affairs)
       PENNSYLVANIA (Joseph R. Clelan, Director)
       RHODE ISLAND (Michael F. Gallagher, Casework Supervisor)
       SOUTH CAROLINA (Bill J. Sams Director)
       TEXAS (Texas Veterans' Commission/ Garry Mauro - Land Board)
       VERMONT (Ms. Lyn Boisjoli, Director - State Veterans Affairs)
       VIRGIN ISLANDS (Verne I. Richards)
       WEST VIRGINIA (G. L. Harper, Veterans Affairs Chief)
       WISCONSIN (John J. Maurer, Secretary of Veterans' Affairs)
     
     We presently have on-file (but not on-line) state veteran
     information from Massachusetts, in addition to copies of
     Title 38, USC and many veteran organization Service Officer
     manuals and pamphlets.
     
     If you live in any of the states/territories listed below -OR-
     know the CURRENT Director/Commissioner's Address, PLEASE let us
     know so that we can get a letter off to 'em and collect the
     information a veteran may need in the near future:
     
     RETURNED - We need CURRENT Names & Addresses for:
        ARIZONA: Arizona Veterans Service Commission -
            Last known to be in Phoenix, AZ 85013
        NEVADA:  Commission for Veterans' Affairs -
            Last known to be in Reno, NV 89502
        NORTH DAKOTA: Department of Veterans' Affairs
            Last known to be in Fargo, ND 58107
        MISSISSIPPI: Veterans' Affairs Commission -
            Last known to be in Jackson, MS 39205
        UTAH: Administrator of Veterans' Affairs
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 109
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

            Last known to be in Salt Lake City, UT 84115
     
     We are STILL trying to find names and addresses for:
        PANAMA: No Director/Commissioner address found
        WYOMING: No Director/Commissioner address found
     
     If you've got veteran-related information that you feel would be 
     helpful to another veteran if s/he found it on-line, please send 
     it to:
     
                         G. Joseph Peck, President
                     BERKSHIRE VETERANS' CENTER, INC.
                           Post Office Box 2056
                           Pittsfield, MA  01202 
     












































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 110
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                 NamVet/IVVEC Concentrated Service Report
          
     To keep you abreast of HOW NamVet/IVVEC Concentrated Service is 
     doing, we'll try to run a report every month of the status of 
     efforts currently underway and, if appropriate, apprise you of 
     positive or negative results.
          
     -- Letter dated 1/1/90 to Massachusetts' DAV Commander, with text-
         file copy in IVVEC: 
        To date:  NO response - VERBAL or WRITTEN
        (We'll mail another copy during April)
     
     -- Copy of above letter dated 1/1/90 to DAV National Commander, 
         with text-file copy in IVVEC:
        To date:  NO response - VERBAL or WRITTEN
        (We'll mail another copy during April)
     
     -- Letter dated 1/13/90 to U.S. Congressman Silvio O. Conte, with 
         text-file copy in IVVEC was received 3/26/90.
         It is included in this issue of NamVet. (Progress again!!!!)
          
     -- Letter(s) dated 1/21/90 to Commissioners and Directors of 
         Veterans Affairs in 50 states and 2 Territories, with text-
         file copy in IVVEC:
        To date: 24 positive and helpful responses w/literature;
        7 letters returned ADDRESSEE NOT HERE UNABLE TO FORWARD
        We are now beginning to receive newsletters produced by the
         Veterans Departments of a few states!
     
     I will keep you posted here and in the VIETNAM_VETS echo as to 
     continuing developments on any of the above issues.
     
            Yours, in Service to America ... and my fellow man
                   In kindness, honesty, and good faith
     
                              G. Joseph Peck
              Moderator, VIETNAM_VETERANS INTERNATIONAL ECHO
                          Managing Editor, NAMVET
                            SysOp - VETLINK #1
                President, BERKSHIRE VETERANS' CENTER, INC.
     


















     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 111
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                                Progress!!!
     - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -
     SILVIO O. CONTE                                 WASHINGTON ADDRESS
     First District, Massachusetts         2300 Rayburn Office Building
                                                  Washington, DC  20515
     COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS                    Phone: 202-225-5335
     Ranking Republican Member
                       CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES
                         HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
                           WASHINGTON, DC  20515
     SUBCOMMITTEES
     Labor - Health and Human                          DISTRICT OFFICES
      Services - Education                             Federal Building
     Transportation                           78 Center Street Arterial
                                                   Pittsfield, MA 01201
     LEGISLATIVE                                    Phone: 413-442-0946
     Ex Officio Member
     Of All Subcommittees                               187 High Street
                                                     Holyoke, MA  01040
     COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS                    Phone: 413-532-7010
     Subcommittee on
     Procurement, Innovation, and
     Minority Enterprises Development
     MIGRATORY BIRD
     CONSERVATION COMMISSION
                                    March 19, 1990
     BOARD OF REGENTS 
     SMITHSONIAN INSTITUTION       
     
     Mr. G. Joseph Peck
     XXX XXXX Street
     Pittsfield, Massachusetts  01201
     
     Dear Mr. Peck:
     
     I am writing to advise you that I have received and reviewed the
     documentation you forwarded to me relative to your request for
     the Postmaster General's  assistance with the problem you have
     experienced with the United States Postal Service.
     
     Please be advised, Mr. Peck, that I have contacted the Postmaster
     General on your behalf to support and show interest in your claim.
     
     I have requested that an expeditious review be afforded in
     addition to a written response of the finding.
     
     As alwayus, I will not delay in contacting you again when I am in
     receipt of additional information.
     
     With my continued best wishes and warm regards, I am
     
                             Cordially yours,
                                    /s/
                              Silvio O. Conte
                            Member of Congress
     SOC:cl
     


     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 112
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990



     =================================================================
               I V V E C   &   N a m V e t   -   W H E R E ?
     =================================================================

                 Parameters of VIETNAM_VETS echoconference...
     
     This   message   will  be  placed in  the  VIETNAM_VETS   echomail
     area  at  regular  intervals.    This  message  constitutes    the
     parameters   regarding  the  use,    access   and distribution  of
     the VIETNAM_VETS EchoConference.
     
     LEGALITIES:   VIETNAM_VETS  is an International  "veteran-support"
     EchoConference  that  is  privately owned and operated as  both  a
     support  mechanism  and outreach effort by  its  originator,  Todd
     Looney and G. Joseph Peck, President, Berkshire Veterans'  Center,
     Inc.
       VIETNAM_VETS  is moderated by G. Joseph Peck.
       The ECHOMAIL COORDINATOR of VIETNAM_VETS is presently G.  Joseph
     Peck - FidoNet 1:321/203; AlterNet 7:46/203 (1-413-443-6313).
       VIETNAM_VETS  is carried as a courtesy and service to  America's
     veterans on the FidoNet <tm> echomail "backbone" and through parts
     of AlterNet <tm> and other networks.
       Where  policies of FidoNet <tm>  or other networks and those  of
     VIETNAM_VETS  conflict,  every  effort  will be made to  reach  an
     amicable    solution   to   any  posed   problem.     The right is
     herein reserved by the Moderator/EchoMail Coordinator,  G.  Joseph
     Peck,   to  remove  VIETNAM_VETS  from  a   network   should   the
     policies   of  that  network  prove  to  be  obstructive    rather
     than  conducive  to  the  mission  of   this EchoConference.
     
     OVERVIEW:   For  some  Vietnam  Veterans,  every day is  a  bitter
     struggle  to survive as they try to find some way to either escape
     the  horrible  memories  of  that war or to  come  to  terms  with
     themselves  so  they and their families can begin a  normal  life.
     For  other  veterans of the Vietnam era there is often  a  fervent
     desire  for comradery with members of the military who also served
     during  that troubled time in our nations history.   Until May  of
     1986  and  the  creation  of the  International  Vietnam  Veterans
     EchoConference (IVVEC) at the Vietnam Veterans' Valhalla,  finding
     a   way  to satisfy the needs of  these  -   the  toughest,   most
     persistent and determined veterans in ALL of US history - as  well
     as  give non-veterans and others a  chance  to interact  and learn
     firsthand  from  the  Vietnam veterans about  the  war   and   its
     complexities,   was  difficult at  best.    IVVEC  has changed all
     that!
     
     DESCRIPTION:  VIETNAM_VETS is an "open forum"  type conversational
     conference  for the discussion of topics related to service in the
     Southeast  Asian and other theaters,  crisis support and  possible
     intervention,  state and federal benefit entitlements,  employment
     rights  and  guarantees,  discharge upgrading,  and other  veteran
     service-oriented topics.
     
     PURPOSE:    The   purpose   of  the   International   VIETNAM_VETS
     EchoConference (IVVEC)  is to be the support vehicle through which
     the  veteran,  particularly  the Vietnam veteran,  and his or  her
     family  will  have an opportunity to communicate about his or  her
     war  experiences,  often  for the first time since returning  from
     Vietnam.  Each of us -  as veterans,  significant and/or concerned
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 113
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     others - participate in the IVVEC to help each other with support,
     suggestions,  ideas and comments.   Together,  as one of America's
     proudest groups, we can share resources and experiences which will
     strengthen  and  build our fellow veterans and may help provide  a
     guide  through the labyrinth of state and federal services many of
     us have honorably earned and have every right to expect.
     
     HANDLES:  The use of "handles" in VIETNAM_VETS is allowed, only if
     the  handle that you use is the name you normally use on the board
     on which you access the conference.
     
     MESSAGE   CONTENT(S):   Personal  attacks  on  individuals   whose
     sometimes-strong  opinions  differ  from  the  IVVEC  "norm"   are
     discouraged.  The object is to learn from and support others,  not
     argue with them or "go for their throat"! <grin>
       Aside from the parameter concerning attacks upon other users, it
     is  hereby  stipulated  that messages in the conference  will  use
     tasteful language.
       Flames,  comments,  suggestions  and such should be addressed to
     the  conference moderator/coordinator via netmail at 1:321/203 and
     NOT posted in the EchoConference.
       Generally,  messages  should relate to the discussion of  topics
     related  to  service in the Southeast  Asian and  other  theaters,
     crisis  support  and  possible intervention,   state  and  federal
     benefit   entitlements,    employment  rights   and    guarantees,
     discharge upgrading,  as related to prior military service.
     
     ADVERTISING:   Advertising  of  for-profit  organizations  is  not
     allowed.    Acceptable  advertising  is  that  which  announces  a
     veteran-oriented  BBS,  supports a veteran-related enterprise of a
     veteran-member  of  the  EchoConference,  or of the efforts  of  a
     nationally recognized veterans' group or organization.
     
     DISTRIBUTION:    The   conference   is  commonly  known   as   the
     International  Vietnam  Veterans  EchoConference  (IVVEC)  and  is
     distributed  throughout America,  Canada and parts of Australia as
     "VIETNAM_VETS".   Distribution  in  America is generally  via  the
     FidoNet  <tm>  backbone which is part of the distribution topology
     currently  in  effect.   Other nets distributing the  VIETNAM_VETS
     EchoConference    are  asked  to  follow  proper  procedures   for
     zonegating   as  established  by the  FIDONET  <tm>  International
     Coordinator.
        All   messages  in  the echo MUST have an  ORIGIN:  line  which
     should  contain  the  word ORIGIN:  followed  by  the  originating
     systems name, zone,  net,  node  and point number if applicable.
        Distributing  messages  between  systems  of  various  networks
     without  authorized  zonegating  and/or changing  of  distribution
     topology  beyond  the original transfer is in direct violation  of
     the distribution topology of this conference.
     
     Fido-AlterNet Nodelist as of 03/01/90, Sorted by Area Code
     Also received on RelayNet; MetroLink; QuickLink
                                                                   Max
     Net/Node               Name, City               Telephone No Baud
     =========    =================================  ============== ==
     7:520/563    3 EEE's BBS, Clifton NJ Ed Edell   1-201-340-3531 96
     107/563      EEE's BBS Clifton NJ  Ed Edell     1-201-340-3531 96
     141/488      Alice's Restaurant Branford CT     1-203-488-1115 24
     141/250      Wilton Woods Wilton, CT            1-203-762-8481 96
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 114
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     124/201      Hardwired Dallas, TX               1-204-931-2987 24
     344/117      LSO QuickBBS, Everett WA           1-206-334-3088 96
     344/9        The Precedent, Everett WA          1-206-355-1295  ?
     138/35       US HDS Human Service Seattle, WA   1-206-442-8127 24
     343/26       AFMINS BBS                         1-206-488-4309 96
     343/111      Lessor Puget TB Edmonds, WA        1-206-742-8067 24
     138/52       Burrell's Ballpark Tacoma, WA      1-206-752-4672 24
     138/4        PTC Net Mount Vernon, WA           1-206-757-5248 24
     138/49       The Cohort Puyallup, WA            1-206-848-2646 96
     138/101      Story Board Puyallup, WA           1-206-848-5317 96
     138/3        Reg17 ADVISOR EMERITUS Puyallup WA 1-206-848-9232 24
     200/200      CSULB Long Beach, CA               1-213-494-8737 12
     200/100      The Board Room Belmont Shores CA   1-213-498-6425 24
     124/117      NCC-1701 Node 1 Dallas, TX         1-214-240-8821 24
     124/106      CHAI Way II Dallas, TX             1-214-250-3323 96
     136/200      The Chai Way II Austin, TX         1-214-358-3738 24
     124/4210     Hardwired Dallas TX                1-214-437-4075 96
     124/110      Flying Dutchman Dallas, TX         1-214-642-3436 96
     124/14       Chrysalis Dallas, TX               1-214-985-9054 24
     157/501      The PC-Key BBS Girard OH           1-216-545-9205 24
     157/1        Auer Register Cleveland, OH        1-216-883-0578 24
     227/1        Michiana TechLine Mishawaka, IN    1-219-258-0286 96
     227/150      The SX Project Whiting IN          1-219-659-2711 24
     13/33        Avi-Technic Lutherville, MD        1-301-252-0717 96
     109/648      Falcon's Rock College Park, MD     1-301-345-7459 24
     261/1004     The PainFrame                      1-301-488-7461  ?
     13/30        The Futurists BBS Perry Hall, MD   1-301-529-0716 96
     109/717      Tin Badge BBS Silver Spring, MD    1-301-589-2016 12
     109/722      Ronnie's Roadies, Camp Springs MD  1-301-736-0135 12
     261/628      Liberty Hall Reisterstown, MD      1-301-833-8933 24
     261/1044     Firestation BBS, Baltimore, MD     1-301-866-8613 24
     261/1007     FINAL FRONTIER                     1-301-947-4404  ?
     104/51       P2 B2 South Denver, CO             1-303-329-3337 24
     104/28       Pinecliff BBS Boulder, CO          1-303-444-7073 24
     128/16       Firenet Leader Colorado Springs CO 1-303-591-9600 24
     104/739      The Phoenix Parker, CO             1-303-841-9570 24
     135/35       The Sober Way Out BBS Miami, FL    1-305-445-6917 24
     135/27       Bitsy's Place Miami Beach FL       1-305-865-0495 96
     232/4        Runways End OPUS Peoria, IL        1-309-691-5416 96
     115/20       North Shore BBS Evanston, IL       1-312-491-2611 24
     115/529      Elk Grove Repeater Elk Grv Vlg IL  1-312-529-1586 24
     115/761      ICS/TRIX 1 OPUS Chicago, IL        1-312-761-7887 24
     11/202       SouthSide BBS Indianapolis, IN     1-317-882-9330 12
     380/5        Duffy's Tavern Recovery Board      1-318-436-2992 96
     285/622      Friend's BBS Omaha, NE Joan Renne  1-402-896-2669 24
     370/5        Athens Forum Athens, GA            1-404-546-7857 96
     370/11       Classic City Vet's Conf, Athens, GA1-404-548-0130  ?
     370/10       Classic Quick Echo, Athens, GA     1-404-548-0726 24
     128/13       COSUG-Colorado's User Clrdo Spg CO 1-719-633-4563 24
     385/6        Bink's Barn Lawton, OK             1-405-357-2473 24
     385/4        Info-Net Lawton, OK                1-405-357-6181 24
     147/14       Dark Star TBBS Oklahoma City, OK   1-405-691-0863 96
     363/10       Midas Touch Orlando, FL            1-407-648-1133 24
     363/9        MaMaB--Mark's Bedroom, Orlanda, FL 1-407-894-0807 96
     157/506      Beacon Hill OPUS Transfer, PA      1-412-962-9514 24
     321/109      PIONEER VALLEY PCUG #1 Amherst, MA 1-413-256-1037 96
     321/203      VETLink #1 Pittsfield, MA          1-413-443-6313 24
     321/210      Berkshire_Estates Pittsfield, MA   1-413-499-1327 96
     154/200      PC-Express Greenfield, WI          1-414-327-5300 24
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 115
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     139/640      Fox Valley Tech Appleton, WI       1-414-735-2513 24
     125/78       Living Sober BBS San Mateo, CA     1-415-342-2859 24
     143/20       SeaHunt BBS, Burlington, CA        1-415-343-5904 96
     143/86       Cat's Tail BBS STOP San Mateo CA   1-415-349-8245 24
     161/208      G.A.D.M. Multi-User Hayward, CA    1-415-581-3019  ?
     125/31       Echo Coord San Francisco CA        1-415-621-5206 96
     161/56       Nat'l Family Forum Freemont, CA    1-415-651-4147 24
     161/1        Nerd's Nook Concord CA             1-415-672-2504 96
     161/509      Enterprize Pinole, CA              1-415-758-1650 24
     161/7        Mover Mouse BBS Fremont, CA        1-415-883-1644 24
     11/700       FCAU IBM Net Toronto, ON           1-416-427-0682 96
     148/120      Genetic Research Vat Toronto ON    1-416-480-0551 24
     14/703       Telen-Quest BBS                    1-417-882-5108  ?
     19/43        McScott's BBS, Blytheville AR      1-502-532-6212 96
     105/61       Shotgun OPUS Portland, OR          1-503-760-4521 24
     105/16       Net 105 EchoMail Hub Portland, OR  1-503-761-3003 24
     305/105      Desert Dolphin, Las Cruces, NM     1-505-523-2811 96
     322/230      Denis's OPUS, Ayer, MA (Ft.Devins) 1-508-772-6373  ?
     382/1        Crystal Palace Lake Travis, TX     1-512-339-8037 24
     387/401      Comp-U-Gen II San Antonio TX       1-512-496-9373 24
     387/601      NCOA Intl BBS San Antonio TX       1-512-653-0409 24
     382/14       Corona Del Mar Rockport, TX        1-512-729-7026 96
     110/20       EDS Data Dayton, OH                1-513-455-2431 24
     221/156      Waterloo CBCS PUBLIC Waterloo, ON  1-519-746-5020 96
     153/130      VETSTAR (Northwest)                1-602-462-8752 24
     114/13       Corwin's Keep Tempe AZ             1-602-644-0179 24
     132/101      BBS Source Archive Nashua, NH      1-603-888-8179 24
     153/123      DAETECH Burnaby BC                 1-604-420-2641 96
     153/133      Hot Line Data Network Langley BC   1-604-533-0421 24
     220/20       Old Frog's Almanac Nanaimo BC      1-604-758-3072 24
     153/508      Ebenezer Christian BBS Mission BC  1-604-826-6607 96
     108/50       The ZOO BBS Independence, KY       1-606-283-2040 24
     108/105      Global Time Systems Cincinnati, OH 1-606-341-7910 24
     108/90       DATANET Info System Erlanger KY    1-606-727-3638 24
     150/803      Jersey Vertex Moorestown, NJ       1-609-869-0139 24
     362/1        The Mines of Moria Chattanooga, TN 1-615-344-9601 24
     362/501      Coconut Telegraph Chattanooga, TN  1-615-698-4858 24
     10/215       Silver BBS San Diego, CA           1-619-226-4502 24
     202/401      jabberWOCky Escondido CA           1-619-743-9935 24
     109/639      The RENEX BBS Woodbridge, VA       1-703-494-8331 24
     109/124      ZEPHYR National Capital Area       1-703-620-5418 96
     109/604      ShanErin Alexandria, VA            1-703-941-8291 24
     379/201      Metro Link Charlotte, NC           1-704-553-9534 96
     125/7        Survival Forum Santa Rosa, CA      1-707-545-0746 96
     125/12       The Grape Vine Santa Rosa, CA      1-707-546-4938 24
     161/502      Wildcat Benicia CA                 1-707-746-5820 24
     106/132      Fast BBS OPUS Katy, TX             1-713-392-0093 24
     106/114      The Fireside Houston, TX           1-713-496-6319 24
     106/357      TMBBS Houston, TX                  1-713-497-5433 24
     106/108      Stormy Weather I Houston, TX       1-713-644-4345 96
     106/113      The Opus Network Houston, TX       1-713-780-4153 24
     106/386      Info Center Exchange Houston TX    1-713-872-4429 24
     106/111      Shutterbug's OPUS Houston, TX      1-713-880-4329 24
     103/507      Philosopher's Log Anaheim CA       1-714-535-1258 96
     103/501      Mount Silverthorn Tustin, CA       1-714-544-3369 24
     7:441/1      Lord Frog Of Swamp                 1-715-362-3895  ?
     13/1033      NY Transfer Staten Island, NY      1-718-448-2358 24
     12/7         HPCUA Honolulu HI                  1-808-422-8406 96
     12/1         Aura Net Honolulu, HI              1-808-533-0190 24
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 116
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     130/5        CUSSNET UTA Arlington, TX          1-817-273-3966 24
     366/38       Jolly Green Giant Shalimar, FL     1-904-651-3875 96
     19/5         Micro Application El Paso TX       1-915-594-9738 24
     381/201      Pro Link San Angelo, TX            1-915-944-2952 24
     161/943      Eagle's Nest Sacramento, CA        1-916-334-2822 96
     161/39       Nightline Mather AFB, CA           1-916-362-1755 24
     161/11       The Byte Boutique Sacramento CA    1-916-483-8032 24
     161/5        River City II OPUS Sacramento, CA  1-916-646-9678 96
     161/34       Now and Zen OPUS Fair Oaks CA      1-916-962-1952 96
     151/601      VMC-BBS Winston-Salem NC           1-919-744-0883 24
     151/100      NC Central Raleigh, NC             1-919-851-8460 96
     151/1000     REDCON Raleigh, NC                 1-919-859-3353 96
     632/350      Yarra Valley BBS Melbourne AU        61-3-848-331 12
     













































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 117
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

                     The NAM VET Roll Call
     
     The following are the current locations where the NamVet
     newsletter and Annual editions are currently sent and, as I
     understand it, available for Bark/Wazoo File Requests.
     
                 FidoNet & AlterNet Nodes:
                 ------------------------
     Scott McKnight   1:389/2001    Blytheville, Arkansas
     Mike Nelson      1:125/20      Burlingame, California
     Greg Peters      1:103/232     La Mirada, California
     Sam Saulys       1:141/488     Branford, Connecticut
     John McCorkle    1:369/10      Fort Lauderdale, Florida
     Charles Harper   1:370/10      West Athens, Georgia
     Gene Clayton     1:161/414     Kauai, Hawaii
     Gordon Kaough    1:380/5       Lake Charles, LA
     Mort Sternheim   1:321/109     Amherst, Massachusetts
     G. Joseph Peck   1:321/203     Pittsfield, Massachusetts
     Pete Farias      1:321/210     Pittsfield, Massachusetts
     Vern Pero        1:321/212     Dalton, Massachusetts
     Jim Henthorn     1:261/1044    Baltimore, Maryland
     Bob Rudolph      1:261/0       Reisterstown, Maryland
     Wayne Parrish    1:308/20      Alamogordo, New Mexico
     Chuck Haynes     1:308/60      Alamogordo, New Mexico
     Mike Connealy    1:305/101     Las Cruces, New Mexico
     Kathleen Kelly   1:1033/0      Staten Island, New York
     Tom Mickus       1:480/114     Toronto, Ontario, Canada
     Bob Currie       1:105/204     Milwaukie, Oregon
     Luis Salazar     1:367/16      San Juan, P.R.
     Jerry Hindle     7:48/0        Stratford Heights, Tennessee
     Aaron Schmiedel  1:124/4106    Dallas, Texas
     Carrie Brown     1:130/10      Fort Worth, Texas
     Rick Edwards     1:106/113     Houston, Texas
     Bob Davis        1:106/116     Houston, Texas
     Art Fellner      1:106/437     Missouri City, Texas
     Ray Moreau       1:109/316     Herndon, Virginia
     Jim Barth        1:350/21      Brownsville, Washington
     Ralph Sims       1:350/341     Grapeview, Washington
     
                     Other Nets:
                     ----------
     Martin Kroll     MetroLink     Chatsworth, GA
     
     Lefty Frizzell   RelayNet      Houston, Texas
     
     Ed Lucas         QuickLink     Houston, Texas
     Edward Green     Shop Qbbs     Exeter, NH (603)778-1698
     
                        Areas not covered:
     
     If *-YOUR-* BBS is in any of the areas listed below *-AND-* you
     have the NAM VET available for File Requests, please let us know
     your BBS (and SysOp) Name, its net/node number (if any), and its
     telephone number so that we might be able to direct a user in *-
     YOUR-* area to you.
     
                - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -
     
     Australian Continent - All            European Continent - All
     
     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 118
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     Alabama            Alaska             Arizona
     Calgary, Canada    Colorada           Delaware
     Idaho              Illinois           Indiana
     Iowa               Kansas             Kentucky
     Maine              Minnesota          Wisconsin
     Mississippi        Missouri           Connecticut
     Montana            Nebraska           New Jersey
     Nevada             North Carolina     North Dakota
     Ohio               Oklahoma           Pennsylvania
     South Carolina     South Dakota       Utah
     Vancouver, B.C     Vermonts           Washington, D.C.
     West Virginia      Winnipeg, Canada   Wyoming
     
                     Thanx for your help...
     
                       Ci'ao for Ni'ao
     
                            -Joe-
                   NamVet's Managing Editor
     







































     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 119
     Volume  4, Number  4                               April 10, 1990

     
     
     
     
     
     
     
     
         Some Gave ALL ...                      Some Still Give!!!
     
     
     
               O                                      O
                O                    SOME GAVE ALL  ...
         ________O__________________________________O______________
        !         O                                O               !
        ! pow mia pow mia - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - pow mia pow mia !
        !           O                            O                 !
        ! ~~~~~ ~ ~  O~   ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~ O ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ !
        ! ~~~~ ~ ~~   O ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~  ~~~  ~~ ~O~~~ ~~~  ~ ~~~~ ~~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~  ~~ ~ O~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ !
        ! ~~~  ~~ ~~ ~  O ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ ~ !
        ! ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ O ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ O ~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~ !
        !  ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~  O ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~  O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ !
        ! ~  ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~  O ~_~_~_~_~_ ~ O ~  ~~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~  !
        ! ~~~ ~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~  O          ) O ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ /(O)       / O \ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~  /          / O   \~~~~ ~~ ~~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ !
        !  ~~ ~ ~  ~~ ~~ / PRISONER /       \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~~~~ !
        ! ~  ~~ ~~ ~~ ~ /          / MISSING \~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~ !
        ! ~~~  ~ ~~ ~~ /   OF     /\          \~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~ !
        ! ~ ~~~~ ~~ ~ /          /  \   IN     \~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~  !
        ! ~~~  ~~~ ~ /    WAR   / ~~ \          \  ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~ ~ /          / ~ ~~ \  ACTION /  ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ !
        ! ~~ ~~ ~~~(__________/ ~~ ~~~ \       /   ~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ !
        ! ~~~~~ ~~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ ~~~ \     /  ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ !
        ! ~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ \   / ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~~~~  !
        ! ~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ \ /~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~ ~  !
        ! ~ ~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~ ~~
        !  ~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~ SOME STILL GIVE
        ! ~ ~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~
        ! ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~ ~~~~ !
        ! mia pow mia pow - BRING THEM HOME NOW! - mia pow mia pow !
        !__________________________________________________________!
     
     
     
     
     
     









     NAM VET Newsletter                                        Page 120
