Archive-name: autos/chrysler-faq/general/part2
Posting-Frequency: 15
Last-modified: 1996/9/21
Version: 3.5

This section is generally revised every 120 days.
The last revision was September 21, 1996.

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  damages resulting from the use of the information contained herein.
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  The writers and the maintainer do not claim to be authorities.
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  (zatz@ssnlink.net = David Zatz).
  - - - - - - - - - - - -
  If you did not obtain this FAQ from one of its
  newsgroups or from the rtfm.mit.edu archives, it is probably
  NOT a current edition. The latest copy may be obtained from
         ftp rtfm.mit.edu
         cd pub/usenet/rec.answers/autos/chrysler-faq/general
         get part1 part2 part3 part4
- - - - - - - - - - - -

PART II

*************************CONTENTS*****************************
What should I do...
1. ... before I post?
2. ... if I have problems with Chrysler?
3. ... if I own this car? (list of models and what to look for)

Oil Filter Discussion

List of All Engines Since 1966
1. Guide to V-8s

List of All Body Styles Since 1966

***********************************************************************
BEFORE POSTING WITH COMPLAINTS/QUESTIONS

1. Check the FAQ. Most answers are there.

2. Please don't post messages like "this broke and I will speak to the
dealer about it sometime." Go to the dealer first; if they cannot fix
it, and it is not in the FAQ, THEN go to the newsgroup.

3. If you are having problems with Chrysler, and have not yet read the
relevant FAQ section in Part 2, please do so.

4. If you are having problems with Chrysler and are angry and bitter
   at them, an angry message or two is fine. But you won't help
   anyone by going overboard or over-generalizing. Every company
   makes some lemons, and every company deals badly with some people.
   Auto companies have poor customer service, in general. Chrysler's
   dealers provide average service and their corporate department
   is better than most in performance but poor in attitude and hard
   to deal with.
***********************************************************************

HOW TO DEAL WITH CHRYSLER CORP.

* Be *polite* and *calm* but assertive at all times. Do not take "no"
for an answer but do *not* act angry or make threats. Chrysler often
helps, even out of warranty, but they need to be gently pushed; they are
generally over-sensitive and jaded; and they may be hard to deal with
and stubborn. They also often don't know what they're talking about, so
elaboration may help. If all else fails, thank the person, then
immediately call back and speak to someone else. Always take down their
name for your reference!

* Know what you're talking about. Check the FAQ, TSBs, your computer
codes, and recalls before you visit the dealer with a problem. Using the
Alldata service may lead you to have new, lower standards for fair
treatment.

* Don't expect Chrysler to change something just because it's listed in
a TSB (technical service bulletin). TSBs describe solutions to problems
which may not apply to your car; they are *not* recalls, though Chrysler
often fixes cars out of warranty if there is a known problem and TSB on
it.

* Even if you are in an adversarial relationship, act in a friendly,
nonthreatening, non-adversarial manner. It works better and makes both
parties less angry.

* Don't take "no" for an answer. Chrysler at 800-992-1997 from a pay
phone if you have to. They will call the dealer. Often, the dealer will
discover they don't need to charge you or keep your car after all!

* If your dealer keeps fixing the same thing over and over again, get
another dealer. Or try the newsgroup.

* If your dealer treats you badly, lies to you, refuses to do the work,
etc., get another dealer.

* Look for five-star dealers, EVEN THOUGH five stars are not an
assurance of quality. Surveys are not a high art at Chrysler;
their form and process desperately need work.

* If you have a continuing problem, speak to the people at your zone
office (in your owner's manual). They will probably send down a factory
rep (or promise to do it and not follow through). Do not threaten them.
If they still don't fix the car, politely begin to negotiate.

* If that fails:

  1. File an official lemon law complaint with your state. This
     will get their attention and help negotiation. You can
     usually get a better deal through negotiation than in court.
     Hiring a lemon law specialist may help - good ones will offer
     to negotiate *first.* Chrysler has a reputation for being easy!
  2. Go through the Customer Arbitration Board.

* Most lawyers don't know the first thing about lemon law! A good one
will know the people at the zone office and will try to
talk nice to them to solve the problem. If negotiation is not their
first move, they are not the right lawyer.

* Your chances of getting cash are EXTREMELY slim. You will
probably get a credit (buy-back). You will usually not
get all of your money back. Chrysler tends to follow
state laws; most impose a penalty on each mile of use before the first
lemon-type complaint. This is normal and OK.

* Go through the latest TSBs again. Something new might have come up.

*Whenever your dealer lies to you or is too incompetent, send a letter
to Dealer Agreements or the Customer Center, Box 302, Centerline, MI
48015. It may not help you but it might help someone else!
************************************************************************
WHAT SHOULD I DO IF I HAVE THE FOLLOWING CAR/ENGINE?

Note: you are strongly advised to also visit the Troubleshooting
section (part 4) and to buy the bound books of TSBs from Chrysler
(see the Resources section in Part 1). If a problem is noted, but no
solution, the solution is listed in the Troubleshooting section.

ENGINES

2.2/2.5 turbo:
 -- check for fuel leaks and loose fuel line connections
 -- head gasket failure (possibly due to heavy use)
Any 2.2 or 2.5 liter engine:
 -- oil leaks from the valve cover gasket (over the spark plugs).
 -- poor driveability when cold
 -- poor idle quality
 -- oil seeping into airbox or air hose
    ** These are all MINOR problems.
Any Mitsubishi engine
 -- high oil consumption
 -- replace the timing belts on time!
Carbureted V-8/slant six engines
 -- replace the crankcase inlet air filter regularly.
 -- keep a spare ballast resistor in your glove compartment
 -- make sure the oven and oven valve are working
Any engine without DIS (if you have a rotor, this applies to you) ---
    Check your timing, it may have been set wrong at the factory.
    Other problems may be caused by low quality rotor or different
    brand rotor and distributor cap.

TRANSMISSIONS

4-speed automatic
  -- 1989-94: watch for early failure
              press Chrysler to pay for *all* repairs.
  -- all: Change fluid regularly with recommended fluid.
  -- DO NOT use non-recommended fluid or ANY additives.
  -- KNOW the right fluid (owner's manual ONLY). Do NOT trust
     mechanics.
  -- Check for TSBs on hard shifting and have the computer replaced if
     needed. If a dealer doesn't feel/hear it, find another. Persist
     until they follow the TSB. The new computer save wear and tear
     on the transmission for various reasons.
5-speed manual transmission, pre-1994 (non-MMC):
  -- Seepage from the transaxle is common. CC may fix it for free
     even if out of warranty. Then again, they may not.

BRAKES

All cars (all companies) -- watch for early wear on brake pads due to
sticking calipers. Also watch for warped or heavily corroded rotors, which
appears to have become a common problem on Chrysler products, especially
trucks. See the Web site at http://ssn.ssnlink.net/~zatz/cc/ starting in
mid-October.

ABS
 -- 1990-93 Bendix systems (all brands) may have early problems.
    On Chrysler products, the trouble-prone ABS-10 was on minivans,
    New Yorker, Fifth Avenue, Imperial, Eagle Premier, Dodge
    Dynasty, and Dodge Monaco.
    *** There has been a RECALL on these systems and the warranty
       on them has been extended to 100,000 miles, according to reports.
 -- You may be able to prevent problems with ABS systems by
    changing the brake fluid every 2-4 years.
See the Web site at http://ssn.ssnlink.net/~zatz/cc/

CARS

Shadow-Sundance-Duster:
 -- water leaks in the rear hatch
 -- loose screws attaching plastic trim to hatch -> rattling
 -- engine mount failure leading to creaking/cracking noise
 -- creaking/rattling from the center console
 -- speedometer temporary failure due to connection problems
    at the speed sensor

Neon -- see the Neon FAQ.
 -- whining noise from the computer for 3-4 minutes after the engine
    is shut, periodically, is normal.

Grand Cherokee -- JBRINKER@compuserve.com says
   that the GC rotors are prone to rust. If you live in a salt-prone
   winter area, wash the INSIDE of the rotors withi a pressure
   wash when you wash your vehicle in the winter! JBRINKER
   also adds -- the rotors are easily replaceable. Simply remove
   the wheel, unbolt the caliper, and pull the rotor off.
   If you can change a tire you can change the rotor. Use new
   pads and clean the caliper sliding surfaces.

PAINT COLORS

Metallic paints are more prone to problems.
Blue seems to be more prone to problems.
Get metallic blue if you want lots of chips and scratches.
Get white if you want paint that actually stays on the car.
Note: this applies to all brands of cars and trucks.
There is a paint problem FAQ you may be interested in - it's referenced at
http://ssn.ssnlink.net/~zatz/cc/

******************** OIL FILTER DISCUSSIONS *********************

Shel Belinkoff said:
on a project to test filters for their different abilities...Fram was
the poorest constructed  filter of the group. Fram had the smallest
amount of filter media, although that, in and of
itself, is of little consequence. The filter uses paper end caps which
are glued directly to the filtering media using an epoxy type of glue.
Of the three Fram filters that were tested, two came apart at the end
caps.  There just isn't that much surface area where the media and the
cap are joined, and should there be the smallest imperfection, the seal
is compromised.

Further, the pressure relief valve on the Fram filters was nothing more
than a bent piece of metal, with little ability to adjust to different
pressures. The design of the filter also allowed for a substantial
amount of oil to bypass the filtering media on each pass.

[The CR tests were done in 1986, and many filter designs changed].

Wix/NAPA Gold has about twice the filter surface area than a Fram, given
the same size filter. It, and the Amsoil, the AC, and
others, use substantial metal end caps which are turned down over the
media. The media is sunk into the epoxy about 1/8" on these filters,
allowing substantially more strength and durability. Some of these
filters have a media similar in type to the Fram, but offer not only
more surface area, but greater thickness as well. The media thickness
was measured using a micrometer.

AC uses a special "glass" media in their "L" suffix filters. This
material will filter to a finer particle size than the Fram.

The anti-drainback valves on the Amsoil, Wix, Mann, and several
other filters are far more substantial than the valve in the Fram.
Canister thickness is greater than Fram in several other filters,
affording them a greater burst strength.

The K-Mart filter was the only other filter I examined that had paper
end caps, but it even had  a larger element than the Fram. Other points
of construction were similar enough that, if you didn't know which
filter you were examining, you'd be hard-pressed
to  tell which was the Fram and which was the K-Mart filter.

While the Fram may certainly be good enough to do the job, and let's
face  it, there are a lot of folks using Fram filters with what appear
to be  good results, they may not be "good enough" in extreme
conditions, or  where one is hoping to achieve great longevity from
their engines.

-------------------------

SL6 Daniel wrote: Skinned Knuckles Magazine's Matt Joseph wrote
about oil filters. When he cut open a bunch of filters, he found
substandard construction and materials in the Fram filter:
-less and smaller filter element
-thinner gauge metal for base plate and can
-scaly rust inside can--no rust protectant!
-flimsy "leaf-spring" style pressure relief valve/tension spring whose
tension varied sufficiently to present a risk of oil bypassing the
filter
-inconsistent placement of a substandard-thickness rubber oil drainback
valve.
-paperboard filter element end caps, glued to the EDGES of the filter
paper, bond was incomplete in a few samples
-in five samples, foreign material or glue or wire of some sort in/on
filter.

The Wix filter (and some others, I don't remember brands) he cut open
had just about the exact opposite of Fram's problems:

-metal filter end caps, securely epoxied to ends AND 1/8" of side of
filter
-consistent coil spring pressure relief valve/tension spring
-thick, correctly-placed rubber anti-drainback valve
-phosphate rust protection inside can
-no foreign material in filters.

-----

J.J. Gratelaiks said:

Check out a post by kruman@netcom.com (i think).  He had an independent
lab test the top brands and the Fram did the best by far at filtering
small particles...

You say that Fram has thinner materials and such , but if the filter
still performs as well as or better than other brands, who cares? In
this age of weight conciousness by the auto manufacturers, maybe Fram is
doing the right thing. As long as the part performs to spec or better.
Besides the thing isn't intended to be on the car for 1 gazillion
miles..."a heavy component is a non-efficient component"... I HAVE seen
rust inside the tube on various other filters, WIX included, probably a
function of the steel supplier.


******************* CONSUMER REPORTS DISCUSSIONS *******************

Transferred to Web site.


******************* TALKING TO CHRYSLER CORP *******************

Chrysler's US customer service number (toll-free) is 1-800-992-1997.
Five-Star Dealers list: 1-800-677-5782.
Free catalog of service bulletins: 1-800-626-1523.
To order service manuals, MasterTech issues and videos,
    and bound TSB lists: 1-800-626-1523
Zone offices are listed in your owners manual.
The customer arbitrarion board is listed in your owners manual.

For problems, see the discussion early in part 1 of this FAQ.

Write with suggestions, complaints, or praise to the Customer Center,
Box 302, Centerline, MI 48015. This department has been recently
reorganized and is now much more responsive.


***********************************************************
From Lloyd Parker:

Engines used in Chryslers since 1966:

4-cylinders: (MMC=Mitsubishi, VW=Volkswagen)

1.4   (MMC) -- Colt, Champ
1.5  (Sunbeam) -- Cricket (British)
1.5   (MMC) -- Colt, Summit
1.6   (MMC) -- Colt, Champ, Challenger, Sapporo, Arrow
1.6   (Peugeot) -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo
1.6  turbo  (MMC) -- Colt
1.6 DOHC  (MMC) -- Colt, Summit
1.6 DOHC turbo  (MMC) -- Colt
1.7   (VW) -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo
1.8   (MMC) -- Colt, Vista, Summit, Laser, Talon
2.0   (MMC) -- Arrow, Vista
2.0   (CC) -- Neon, Stratus/Cirrus/Breeze
2.0 DOHC  (MMC) -- Laser, Talon
2.0 DOHC turbo  (MMC) -- Laser, Talon
2.0 DOHC  (CC) -- Neon, Sebring, Avenger, Talon
2.2  -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo, Aries, Lancer,
              Reliant, Shadow, Sundance, 400, 600, Caravelle, Caravan,
              Voyager, LeBaron, Laser, Daytona, New Yorker, E-Class
2.2  turbo  -- LeBaron, New Yorker, Limousine, Laser, Daytona,
                 Lancer, TC, 600, Shadow, Caravelle, Sundance, Omni,
                 Charger, E-Class, Shelby
2.2 DOHC turbo  -- Spirit, Daytona (joint venture with Lotus)
2.2 DOHC turbo  -- TC (joint venture with Maserati)
2.2   (Renault) -- Medallion
2.4   (MMC) -- Vista, Summit
2.4 DOHC  (CC) -- Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze, 1996+ minivans
2.5  (CC)  -- minivans, Aries, Reliant, Shadow, Sundance,
                 Duster, 600, Lancer, Dynasty, Daytona, Spirit, Acclaim,
                 LeBaron, Caravelle, Dakota (to 1995)
2.5  turbo  (CC) -- minivans, Spirit, Acclaim, Shadow,
                 Sundance, LeBaron, Daytona
2.5 (AMC) -- Wrangler, Cherokee, Premier, Dakota (96)
2.6   (MMC) -- New Yorker, E-Class, Executive, Limousine,
                 LeBaron, 400, 600, Aries, Reliant, Caravan, Voyager
2.6  turbo  (MMC) -- Conquest (MMC)

2.5 is 2.2 with balance shafts, minor changes. 2.0 (CC) is 2.2 with
different heads, fuel system, some tweaks. 3.9 V-6 (below) based on 318.
2.4 is 2.0 with balance shafts, other minor changes.
----------------------------------
V-6:

2.5  (MMC) -- Sebring, Avenger, Cirrus, Stratus (from 3.0)
3.0  (MMC) -- LeBaron, TC, minivans, New Yorker, Spirit,
           Dynasty, Daytona, Stealth, Shadow ES, Acclaim, Duster
3.0 DOHC (MMC) -- Stealth
3.0 DOHC turbo (MMC) -- Stealth
3.0  (Renault) -- Premier, Monaco
3.3  (CC)-- New Yorker, Dynasty, LH series, minivans
3.5  (CC)-- Concorde, New Yorker, LHS, Intrepid, Vision
3.8  (CC)-- New Yorker Fifth Avenue, Imperial, minivans
3.9  (CC)-- trucks
----------------------------------
The SLANT SIX:

2.8 (170) -- Dart, Valiant
3.3 (198) -- Barracuda, Challenger, Dart, Valiant, Duster, Scamp
3.7 (225)-- Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Mirada, Diplomat, St.
            Regis, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, Belvedere, Satellite,
            Barracuda, Valiant, Duster, Scamp, Volare

Australian vehicles used slant sixes as well as home-modified straight
sixes which were much more powerful and originally intended for use in
American trucks.
----------------------------------
The AMC straight six crowd:

4.0 IL-6 (AMC-derived) -- Cherokee, Wagoneer, Wrangler, Grand Cherokee
4.2 IL-6 (AMC) -- Wrangler
----------------------------------
V-8s:
4.5 (273) -- Dart, Valiant, Barracuda, Coronet, Belvedere, Satellite
5.2 (318) -- Polara, Monaco, Coronet, Charger, St. Regis, Magnum,
             Mirada, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, VIP, Belvedere,
             Satellite, Road Runner, Barracuda, Valiant, Scamp, Duster,
             Volare, Cordoba, LeBaron, Newport, New Yorker, Gran Fury,
             Imperial, Grand Cherokee, Grand Wagoneer, Diplomat
5.6 (340) -- Charger, Challenger, Dart, Barracuda, Duster, Road Runner
5.9 (360) -- LeBaron, Newport, New Yorker, 300, Cordoba, Diplomat,
             Polara, Monaco, Challenger, Dart, Aspen, Fury, Gran Fury,
             Barracuda, Duster, St. Regis
5.9 (361) -- Coronet, Charger, Belvedere
5.9 (360-AMC) -- Grand Wagoneer
6.3 (383)-- Newport, 300, Town & Country, Polara, Monaco, Coronet,
           Charger, Challenger, Dart, Fury, Belvedere, Satellite, Road
           Runner, Barracuda, Magnum
6.6 (400) -- Newport, New Yorker, Town & Country, Monaco, Fury, Road
           Runner, Gran Fury, Charger, maybe Cordoba, Magnum
7.0 (426, Hemi & Wedge) -- Belvedere, Road Runner, GTX, Barracuda,
           Challenger, Charger, Coronet, Daytona, Superbird
7.2 (440) -- Newport, New Yorker, 300, Town & Country, Imperial, Polara,
           Monaco, Coronet, Charger, Challenger, Fury, VIP, Belvedere,
           Road Runner, GTX, Barracuda, Daytona, Superbird
440 was base engine on Daytona, Superbird.
----------------------------------
8.0 V-10 -- Viper, Ram trucks.

Gary Howell <ghowell@mail.miworld.net> notes that he has noticed some
confusion on V-8 Mopar engines, and clarifies the situation:

Small blocks
273/318/340/360 are LA engines they look the same from the out side.
273 cu. in. 1964-69 3.31 stroke and 3.63 bore
318 cu. in. 1968-91 3.31 stroke and 3.91 bore
340 cu. in. 1968-73 3.31 stroke and 4.04 bore
360 cu. in. 1971-91 3.58 stroke and 4.00 bore

The A engines (not LA) are older small blocks and look the same on the
outside to each other.  The blocks are different in deck height, but share
some internal components with the LA block.  The cylinder heads and intake
are different.

277 cu. in. 1956  3.75 bore and 3.12 stroke
301 cu. in. 1957  3.91 bore and 3.12 stroke
318 cu. in. 1957-67  3.91 bore and 3.31 stroke

The Magnum 318 and 360 engines are LA engines with different cylnder heads.
The blocks are physically the same as the earier LA engines, except the oil

passage for the shaft mounted rockers is not drilled, because the Magnum
engines oil through the push rods.  The boss is there if you need to use
the old style heads.

Big Blocks

There are eight different big blocks. The B blocks are short deck and the
RBs are tall deck.  The RBs require a wider intake manifold.

The Bs
350, 361, 383, 400

The RBs
383, 413, 426 Wedge (not Hemi), 440

All B engine use 3.38 stroke crank with different bores, and all RB
engines use 3.75 stroke crank with different bores.  You'll notice that
the 383 is listed in two differnent places.  There were two different
383s; the RB is very rare, only produced 64.  The 350 was only produced
in 1958.

***********************************************************
BODY TYPES

(Below list courtesy Lloyd R. Parker)

A -- Valiant, Dart, Barracuda, LeBaron (sedan), Scamp, Duster
B -- Coronet, Charger, Magnum, Monaco, Premier, Belvedere, Satellite,
     GTX, Road Runner, Fury, Cordoba
C -- Polara, Monaco, Fury, VIP, Gran Fury, Newport, 300, Town & Country,
     New Yorker, Imperial, Dynasty
D -- Talon, (Plymouth) Laser
E -- Barracuda, Challenger, 600, Caravelle, E-Class, New Yorker
F -- Aspen, Volare
G -- Daytona, (Chrysler) Laser
H -- Lancer, LeBaron (hatchback)
J -- LeBaron (coupe/convertible), Cordoba, Imperial, Mirada
K -- LeBaron, Executive, Limousine, Aries, Reliant, 400, 600
L -- Omni, 024, Charger, Horizon, TC3, Turismo
M -- Diplomat, LeBaron, New Yorker, Fifth Avenue, Gran Fury
P -- Shadow, Sundance, Duster
Q -- TC by Maserati
R -- St. Regis, Gran Fury, Newport, New Yorker
S -- Town & Country, Caravan, Voyager
Y -- New Yorker Fifth Avenue, Imperial

LH -- Concorde, New Yorker, LHS, Intrepid, Vision
PL -- Neon
JA -- Cirrus, Stratus, Sebring convertible
FJ -- Sebring, Avenger (based on MMC Galant)
SR -- Viper
XJ -- Cherokee, Wagoneer
YJ -- Wrangler
ZJ -- Grand Cherokee, Grand Wagoneer
SJ -- Grand Wagoneer
PJ -- Talon

--
http://ssn.ssnlink.net/~zatz/cc/ is Chrysler Central
zatz@ssnlink.net does organizational development and data analysis


