Archive-name: misc-forsale-faq
Posting-Frequency: every 4 days
Last-modified: 1994/04/26
Version: 2.11
Major-Changes: Conform to news.answers, include biz.* pointers


   MISC.FORSALE.*.FAQ


maintained by Daniel King (dking@cn.ecn.purdue.edu)
 I welcome your suggestions/comments/flames
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Contents:
 I.    Welcome to the misc.forsale hierarchy.
 II.   Purpose of the misc.forsale groups.
 III.  What is appropriate to post, what isn't?
        IV.   How to Buy/Sell off the Usenet

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Before posting to the Usenet, you should read the articles in
  news.announce.newusers, as well as the FAQ for the groups in
  question.  This will save you, and everyone else, a lot of
  hassle.

A special welcome to our new America-OnLine users!  Please make
  sure you direct questions to and read aol.newsgroups.help, as
  well as this FAQ, now archived on AOL.

I.  Welcome to the misc.forsale hierarchy!
 Allow me to be the first to welcome you to the Usenet
 Marketplace, where anything and everything changes hands
 at better-than-average prices.  Many, many satisfied
 computer-users have walked away from here knowing they
 got the best deal available on everything from computer
 accessories to sailboards, houses, and rollerblades.
 Please feel free to use the Usenet Marketplace to your
 advantage, and read on to find out how.

II.  Purpose of misc.forsale.*.
 In the misc.forsale hierarchy, you will find 6 newsgroups,
 each tailored to a specific market.  Please post to as
 few groups as possible, and only to APPROPRIATE groups.
 Be aware that commercial and entrepreneurial ads are NOT
 appropriate in any of these groups, except in certain
 computer groups as described later.  Commercial ads may
 be posted in the biz.* hierarchy available at some sites,
 or in certain other cases outlined in specific groups' FAQs.

  misc.forsale
      Individual-to-individual sales of
          non-computer items ONLY
       (i.e., sporting goods, garage sale announcements,
       houses, furniture,...)
      Non-computer WANTED ads, if "WANTED" is in the subject
      NO DISCUSSION (discussion goes in m.fs.c.d)

  misc.forsale.computers.mac
      Macintosh computers, hardware, and software,
          Mac-compatible PowerPC

  misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone
      IBM-Compatible computers, hardware, and software
   (i.e. Motherboards, hard drives, games, monitors,
     scanners, modems, complete systems, memory,
     DOS-based workstations, 80x86 chips, pentiums,
     DOS-compatible PowerPC,...)

  misc.forsale.computers.workstation
      Workstations, software, and related hardware
   (i.e. HW/SW for HP Workstations and others,
     1 gig hard drives, networking peripherals,
     very-high-powered stuff,...)

  misc.forsale.computers.other
      Anything computer related which doesn't fit in
     one of the other categories, and cross-
     platform hardware.
   (i.e. Lisa ;-), Commodore 64, hard drives, 
     printers, 8-bit simms,...)
   
  misc.forsale.computers.d
      Any and all discussion about misc.forsale.*
      Debates like "What is a workstation?"
   (i.e. "Don't Buy From Him...", questions
     about buying/selling on the Usenet, questions
     about buying/selling computers in general,...)
      NO WANTED or FORSALE ads, please.

 In addition to these, several other groups exist which are
  tailored to more specific items, as follows:

  rec.autos.marketplace
   Motor vehicles
  rec.collecting.comics.marketplace
   Comic books
  rec.games.board.marketplace
   Board games
  comp.sys.next.marketplace
   NEXT equipment and compatibles
  comp.sys.sun.wanted
   SUN Microsystems equipment and compatibles
  comp.sys.apple2.marketplace
   Apple II equipment
  comp.sys.amiga.marketplace
   Amiga equipment and compatibles


III.  What is appropriate to post?
 Before posting to *any* newsgroup, you should read the
 articles in news.announce.newusers.  These articles provide
 much insight into the niceties of newsgroups, including
 appropriate netiquette when posting.

 COMMERCIAL and ENTREPRENEURIAL advertisements are a STRICT
 NO-NO.  One small exception does exist to this rule:
        Occasionally, computer dealers are able to make a special
 offering not normally available to the public.  ONLY IF
 the price of your computer-related item is SIGNIFICANTLY
 LOWER than the BEST PUBLISHED PRICE in all national computer
 magazines like Computer Shopper may you post your ad.
 Many computer dealers occasionally offer surplus or
 refurbished factory goods at excellent prices.
 These ads are welcomed IN THE APPROPRIATE GROUPS ONLY.
 NO OTHER COMMERCIAL POSTS SHOULD BE POSTED TO MISC.FORSALE.*
 (That means no books, no tungsten, no phone companies, nothing.)
 Recommendations for certain companies are welcomed in some
 groups, but are NOT welcome in misc.forsale.  If someone
 solicits one, please respond by E-MAIL only.

 Chain letters like MAKE.MONEY.FAST are not permitted, and will
 cause you to lose your account at many sites.  Please keep
 this in mind before wasting already-tight network resources.

 In the misc.forsale.* newsgroups, a good rule of
 thumb is to follow the purpose of the group to
 which you post.  If you have a hard drive for sale, you
 can cross-post it to a few of the misc.forsale.computers.*
 groups as appropriate, but NOT to misc.forsale.  If you
 have a 386DX system for sale, you should only post it
 to misc.forsale.computers.pc-clone.  In general, avoid
 posting to multiple newsgroups whenever possible.

 PLEASE--keep responses to others' ads to a minimum.  If
 someone offers something at a good price, and you MUST
 respond that you know where there's better, then BE SURE
 to include the following info:  (KEEP IT SHORT)
  The advertised price
  The company selling it
  An address/phone # to order the item

 Wanted articles are permitted on misc.forsale.*, but
 PLEASE put "WANTED" in your title, as well as the item
 desired.    

 If you're not certain if you should post or not, then please
 ask first.  I'd be more than happy to answer your questions,
 just e-mail Dan King, dking@cn.ecn.purdue.edu


IV.  How to buy/sell on the Usenet
 If you've satisfied the above requirements, then you're ready
 to post your item for sale.  Please post your ad with an
 appropriate title, like "Household items for sale" if you're
 selling an assortment of irons, vaccuums, pots, and furntiure,
 or "204 meg Hard Drive for sale" if you're selling a hard drive.
 Be as SPECIFIC yet concise as you can in the subject.  In the
 body of your ad, be sure to include the following:
  Asking price (or say "best offer takes it")
  Your true name and e-mail address
  A complete description of the item
   --technical details are good
  Will you warrant the item?
   (Standard is guaranteed to work on arrival)
  Who pays for shipping?
  What city are you near? (Particularly w/large & heavy items)
   (restrict your article's distribution if it
   would be impossible to ship the item)
 If you're selling multiple items, try to group them into
 different articles as appropriate.  Specifically, don't mix
 hard drives, a surfboard, and a Sun Workstation in one article
 which you post to 4 newsgroups.  Break it into 3 separate
 articles and post each appropriately.  On the other hand, don't
 advertise an SVGA monitor, 1megx9 Simms, and a 486 motherboard
 in separate articles--this only wastes everyone's time.

 ONCE SOLD, PLEASE CANCEL YOUR ARTICLE.  At most sites this can
 be done by pressing a capital C when you go back and reread your
 article.  Some sites, however, work differently.  Please find
 out how to cancel articles on your site *BEFORE* you post.

 O.k., now you're looking to buy something off the Usenet.
 How do you complete the purchase?  There are, in effect, 2
 ways commonly used, and a third method for very expensive
 items:

  Method 1:  COD -- Reccommended
   The seller ships the item COD to the buyer,
   who pays for it on arrival.  The extra few
   bucks are worth the hassle that could arise.
   When the package arrives, pay by check or
   cashier's check so that you can stop payment
   in the unlikely event the sender sent you a
   very expensive brick, instead of the hard drive
   you ordered.  Unfortunately, with UPS and the
   USPS, you may not inspect the package contents
   before paying.
  Method 2:  Payment by check -- Good for small items
   The buyer sends a check, cashier's check,
   or money order to the seller, who then
   sends the item when the check arrives.
   With big items, the seller may wait a
   short time for the check to clear.
  Method 3:  For extra protection in the case of
   extremely expensive items, contact a local
   lawyer about escrow--he holds your funds
   until you receive the item.  It costs--
   about an hour's worth of lawyer's fees--
   but it may be worth it for items like
   high-powered workstations/bulk deals.

 Paying half in advance, half on arrival is frowned upon.

 Buying off the Usenet is relatively safe, as many thousands of
 successful transactions have taken place.  However, there have
 been a small number of incidents of fraud, and, more often, of
 gross miscommunication.  We suggest the following precautions
 as a guide--
  --Keep records of your e-mail, checks, proof-of-mailing
  --Insure your package adequately
  --Make sure both of you are ABSOLUTELY clear on the
   items and arrangements.
  --Exchange and double-check addresses and phone numbers

 If the items are terribly expensive, you may wish to have a
 notarized bill of sale drawn up and/or other legal formalities.
 Contact your lawyer for more information.

 If something does go wrong, the best place to start is to
 contact the other party--via e-mail or telephone.  Again, the #1
 source of problems is miscommunication.  If this doesn't work,
 however, and the deal appears fraudulent, contact the other
 person's system administrator by e-mail at 'postmaster@[systemname]'.
 Often times the threat of losing net access is enough to help
 the process along.  But please do this ONLY when discussions
 fall through.

 DISCLAIMER:
  While rare, occasionally fraud does occur on the Internet.
 It is ultimately the buyer and/or seller who must take precautions
 to ensure that he/she is not taken for a ride.  Presented here are
 merely suggestions of means of transaction which worked for others.
 There is no guarantee that they will work for you.
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