========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 13, Topic 17 Message 1 Fri Mar 19, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 19:26 EST ==================================================================== P R E S S R E L E A S E ==================================================================== Wintertree Software Inc. 43 Rueter St. Nepean, Ontario Canada K2J 3Z9 Phone: (613) 825-6271 For Immediate Release: Date: 19 March 1993 NEPEAN, ONTARIO -- Bigger, better, faster. These three words describe Spelling Sentry 1.20, Wintertree Software's latest upgrade to the popular spelling checker for Atari computers. Spelling Sentry is a spell-checking desk accessory. It watches keystrokes as you type into other GEM programs and accessories, and alerts you when you make a spelling error. Spelling Sentry can also check disk files and the GEM clipboard. Spelling Sentry includes a built-in abbreviation expander that can substitute a text string whenever you type its abbreviation. BIGGER ------ Wintertree has added over 11,000 words to Spelling Sentry's dictionary, bringing the total word count to over 115,000. At the same time, Wintertree reorganized the internal structure of the dictionary to make it both smaller and faster. The result: While the number of words in the dictionary increased by 10.5%, the size of the dictionary increased by only 6.2%. BETTER ------ Wintertree listened to requests and suggestions made by Spelling Sentry owners. Spelling Sentry 1.20 contains a host of new features and improvements: * 16 alternative words are now displayed instead of eight. * Spelling Sentry can now optionally locate alternative words that are phonetically similar to the misspelled word. For example, Spelling Sentry correctly suggests "Atari" in place of "Uhtarry." Spelling Sentry's original method of locating alternative words, based on typographical similarity, is still available. * You can now try a new spelling for a misspelled word, and Spelling Sentry will check it for correctness. * Spelling Sentry's abbreviation feature can now substitute the contents of a disk file wherever an abbreviation is used. * Spelling Sentry's new keyboard capture feature saves time when defining new abbreviations. The keyboard capture feature magically inserts the last few words you typed into the dialog field used to define abbreviations. Other improvements: * Screen flashing now works on all monitors * Improved compatibility with Calamus * Undo key now works reliably when checking disk files * Maximum size of an abbreviation expansion (including files and chaining) is now 1024 characters. FASTER ------ When Wintertree reorganized Spelling Sentry's dictionary to make it smaller, they also made it faster -- 15% faster. When optimally configured, Spelling Sentry can check 2400+ words per minute on a stock ST. The list price of Spelling Sentry 1.20 remains at $59.95. Registered owners who purchased Spelling Sentry on or before 31 December 1992 can upgrade to 1.20 by sending a check or money order for $10.00 to Wintertree Software Inc. Customers who purchased Spelling Sentry 1.00, 1.10, or 1.11 on or after 1 January 1993 can upgrade to version 1.20 at no charge (proof of purchase date is required). All update requests should include the original Spelling Sentry diskette. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 2 Mon Apr 12, 1993 A.HASKELL [Alan] at 22:44 EDT Hello Phil Comeau, I just received my SS 1.20 upgrade in the mail. Thank you for the speedy service. The new feauters are GREAT!! I believe I have found a small bug howerer. In the abbreviator, everything after a colin (:) will no longer print out. Example: If I try to expand NOW using &D &M &d, &Y &h:&N &A, the minutes will not print out. If I change the : to any other charater, that charater will print. Please verify that it is not just me :-) Thanks, Alan. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 3 Mon Apr 12, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:58 EDT Alan, do that mean I should be getting mine soon too [grin]? ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 4 Tue Apr 13, 1993 JIM.K [Jim~ST Sysop] at 10:14 EDT Hmmm... I just purchased SS (v1.10) last week. I sent in my registration card yesterday. Will I automatically get the upgrade, or do I have to send any $$$? Jim Kudron 13Apr93 09:54:48 ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 5 Wed Apr 14, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:14 EDT Phil, Hello.. I received 1.20.. _Great_ update!! I love all the new stuff! I'm have one or two problems with the phonetic part.. But I'm still playing around with the different settings.. I'm getting the "Out of memory Error Code 0X41420000" when I try to access my abbreviator button?? I know the fix was posted here about a week or so ago, but I cannot find it. Something to do with the alphabetical order?? Thanks, I know I'm a pain with a bad memory... :) <-:}Ted{:-> Wednesday, April 14, 1993 - 7:37:40 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 6 Wed Apr 14, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 22:52 EDT I got mine in Detroit on Monday. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 7 Thu Apr 15, 1993 G.ZEPKA1 [Greg] at 00:32 EDT I just purchased v1.11, how do I update. I told you I was going to get it and I did. Greg ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 8 Thu Apr 15, 1993 L.BUDNICK [Lorne] at 20:21 EDT Phil, Has anyone reported a problem with running the new version inside of MultiDesk (latest version)? When I installed SS inside MD I am getting the 'accessory did not register itself' message. I did not have any problem with this with the earlier version of SS. I will try reordering things to see if I can find a way to get it to work, but thought I would post here too, just in case someone may have experienced the same problem. BTW, I appreciate the rapid manner in which you responded to my upgrade request. GREAT SERVICE!!! Thanks, Lorne.... Thursday April 15, 1993 7:00 p.m. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 9 Thu Apr 15, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 20:42 EDT To all: Anyone who ordered the Spelling Sentry 1.20 upgrade should be receiving it shortly. However, there are two bugs in 1.20. The first occurs with Multidesk Deluxe: for some reason, MDX reports that Spelling Sentry hasn't registered itself. That one is close to being solved. The second bug is the one Alan Haskell mentioned: abbreviation expansion stops at the first colon. That one is also close to being solved. The bugs listed above will be solved in version 1.21, which should be prepared within the next few days. If you have sent in your upgrade for 1.20, and would like to receive 1.21 when it is ready, send me some email privately. I'll mail 1.21 to you via GEnie. My apologies for any inconvenience. Alan: It's not just you! See the note above. Jim K and Greg: If you purchased Spelling Sentry after 1 January 1993, you can upgrade to 1.20 at no charge. See the press announcement I posted here a couple of weeks ago for details. If you have questions specific to your situation, send me email privately. Ted: Glad you like the upgrade. I bet you have a lot of abbreviations. That problem indicates Spelling Sentry is low on memory. It can occur if you go a long time between reboots. It's usually the result of something called "memory fragmentation." A reboot should make it go away. If rebooting doesn't help, try this: Use a text editor like STeno or Edhak to edit SENTRY.INF. Try setting the value in the RESERVE_MEMORY line to 60 or 80. What kinds of problems are you having with the phonetic part? Lorne: See the note above. We actually have a solution to this problem, but I'm communicating with the CodeHeads to make sure it will work. Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 11 Fri Apr 16, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:40 EDT You guys are making me jealous!! I am still waiting [grin]. ~~~~Brian.... Written on Thursday 15 April 1993 at 06:08 p.m. AST ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 12 Fri Apr 16, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 18:13 EDT Ted E. >I'm getting the "Out of memory Error Code 0X41420000" when I try to access my >abbreviator button?? I get the same problem! I just got the update today. If I run on a bare HD system it still happen. If I run from floppy it doesn't. The floppy version has all the .acc and auto programs that usually on my HD. The difference is the HD .sys, and all the files on in the same directory, and that's it. Weird? From floppy, it will load an abr file but won't show anything. Still using a MEGA STE right Ted? Phil, >I bet you have a lot of abbreviations. I only have three abbreviations!! I have tried turning off the system and waiting and everything. BTW, I have 1.5 megs free and Spelling Sentry set for 354 K. ~~~~Brian.... Written on Friday 16 April 1993 at 06 p.m. AST (Funny, I get the error but as you can see the abbreviation came out above.) Ted, does your abbbreviations work but you can't view/edit them? ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 13 Fri Apr 16, 1993 TQUINN [Terry~Sysop] at 21:49 EDT The first 200 messages (or so) in this topic have been archived and are available in Library 13 as file # 28458 (SPELR_2.ARC). This archive covers the period between December 12, 1992 and April 15, 1993. Terry Quinn ST RT Sysop and BBS Janitor ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 14 Fri Apr 16, 1993 L.BUDNICK [Lorne] at 22:00 EDT Wow! That was a fast response to my query. ;^) Thanks Phil. I will get to e- mail shortly re: the upgrade. Lorne.... Friday April 16, 1993 08:00 p.m. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 15 Sat Apr 17, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 09:45 EDT Brian: Try the advice I gave to Ted: Use a text editor to increase the RESERVE_MEMORY line in SENTRY.INF by 20 or so. Increasing the memory in the Options dialog will have no effect on this problem. Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 16 Sat Apr 17, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 12:06 EST Phil, I seem to have a small problem with my new version (thanks for getting it to me so fast). Often now it backspaces an extra space, thereby eliminating the blank space between the corrected word and the word in front of it. I have set my back space delay to 100 and that has helped, but with the prior version a delay of 20 seemed to do it. The delay of 100 does slow the correction process enough that I find it annoying. I am working on a TT if that has anything to do with it. Thanks, >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 17 Sat Apr 17, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 16:12 EDT Phil, Thanks for the quick reply and fix for my out of memory abbv. problem.. I will try it today when I log off. No phonetic problems.. It's seems to be not very 'phonetic'.. But with the 'recheck' button it's not big think.. For instance I was try to spell 'amateur'.. For the life of me I couldn't remember how to spell it.. So I typed in AMATURE.. :0 Don't get me wrong... I love the new version... Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Saturday, April 17, 1993 - 8:49:40 am Brian, I only have five abbv. I can't do anything with them.. I will try Phil's fix and see what happens? Yes I still have the Mega4 STe.. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 18 Sat Apr 17, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 16:56 EDT Phil, Ted, It worked!! I increased the reserve to 60 and no problem. I am back in business. What with the increase in size of the abbreviation function, I can now dump Abbreviator ST!! Great work Phil!! ~~~~Brian.... Written on Saturday 17 April 1993 at 05 p.m. AST /*cha,6 /NoW// ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 19 Sat Apr 17, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 20:23 EST I would like to add a little to my prior message on a problem I have been having. It seems the only time I experience the problem of SS backspacing too far when correcting a word is when I have use the keyboard (0-9) to chose the replacement and then used the return key to complete the transaction. I might add that in addition to removing the character or space before the word I am correcting it also sends a CR/LF to place me on the next line. I hope that helps and I a fix can be added to the next update. Thanks >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 20 Sun Apr 18, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 08:15 EDT Phil, Yep, changed the Reserve Memory and it worked! Also changed from phonectic to 1st 3 words.. It seems to work much better this way and is a _WHOLE_ lot faster.. Thanks for the help.... <-:}Ted{:-> Saturday, April 17, 1993 - 8:40:52 pm ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 21 Sun Apr 18, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 16:25 EDT Ted, "Phonectic"? Phunny you should say that here. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 22 Mon Apr 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:27 EDT Ken Van, Maybe Ted should keep his Sentry turned on while using Aladdin. That's what I do.... Ted? Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 23 Mon Apr 19, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:24 EDT >Message 21 Sun Apr 18, 1993 >K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 16:25 EDT > >Ted, > >"Phonectic"? Phunny you should say that here. >----- Ken: Making 'fun' of my speeling?? I wunder if Phil sent me the krippled demo insteed of the new vershun?? My screen never seems to flash, now that you mentshun it... :) AL: You meen you have to tunr Speeling Sentree on?? :) <-:}Ted{:-> Monday, April 19, 1993 - 10:38:54 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 24 Tue Apr 20, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:45 EDT ANyone having problems with the "F:" file abbreviator? The small "f" works but I can't get the big "F" working. (Please no jokes.) Written on Tuesday 20 April 1993 at 11:44 p.m. AST ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 25 Wed Apr 21, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 19:02 EDT Ted, Thanks for being a good sport, and seeing the humor in the situation. I have a knack for seeing the funny side of life. It cracked me up to see your typo in a spell-checker topic. (Still grinning.) Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 26 Wed Apr 21, 1993 A.HASKELL [Alan] at 23:28 EDT Thanks Phil for the 1.21 upgrade. Everything is working fine now. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 27 Thu Apr 22, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 19:07 EDT Ken, With my speeling.. The screen keeps falshing so much, I cnat teel what is write and wot is wronge.. :) How do I tunr this think off?? :0 Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Thursday, April 22, 1993 - 11:34:46 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 28 Sat Apr 24, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 13:10 EDT Brian: Oops. Another bug. Use &f instead of &F. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 29 Sat Apr 24, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 14:10 EDT No problem Phil. It is real nice with the recent changes. However, will a future version eliminate the need for a separate text file for large abbreviations? Sort of like, Abbreviator? I use both and want only to use one product; yours!!. However, to have a separate file for each abbreviation is a pain. However, I still think it is a great product and I use it all the time. Brian ... Written on Saturday 24 April 1993 at 03:05 p.m. AST ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 30 Sat Apr 24, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 16:10 EDT Phil, I have discovered a problem / bug, with the latest version of Spelling Sentry... But I have had the same sort of problem with earlier versions too.. Here goes: If I hit the space bar and the ['] key, I get three bombs on my Mega4 STe.. It seems that they have to be used in conjuction, or together.. Here is what I have done so far in trying to solve/overcome the problem.. I've used Xboot and ran with a bare system.. 3 bombs.. I have tried adding the ['] and the space bar to the dictionary.. Same thing... 3 bombs.. I have changed the keyboard samping rate from 120 down to 80 in increments.. 3 bombs.. It also bombs out at 20.. I have spent hours trying to narrow this gremlin down, with out much luck... Hope you can help me, Phil as I am lost without my SS.. <-:}Ted{:-> Saturday, April 24, 1993 - 3:52:46 pm ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 31 Sun Apr 25, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 10:14 EST Ted, I just tried the " '" several times and I don't get a problem. Maybe it is only on some machines. I am running TOS 3.05. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 32 Mon Apr 26, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:25 EDT Joe, I get it every time.. Within one or two lines.. I have TOS 2.06 in my Mega4 STe.. And it happens too on a buddy's STe with TOS 206 while in Pha$ar, he just called me after reading my post.. In Pha$ar you use the " and the space bar frequently... I feel "naked" without my Spelling Sentry... :0 Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Monday, April 26, 1993 - 7:43:52 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 33 Wed Apr 28, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:25 EST Ted, I don't think I understand what you are doing in Pha$ar that would use the " space keys. However best of luck. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 34 Wed Apr 28, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:23 EDT Joe: It's the ['] key.. The single quote key, in conjuction with the space bar that makes SS bomb... I think you use those keys a lot in Pha$ar, I stopped using Pha$ar about 6 mo's ago, but I remember the ' key and the space bar was used a lot?? Am I right?? Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Wednesday, April 28, 1993 - 9:00:28 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 35 Wed Apr 28, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 18:36 EDT Ted: I can't reproduce your problem with ' here. Is it possible the problem is really some incompatibility between Spelling Sentry and Phasar? If not, could you report the exact sequence of keys needed to reproduce the problem? Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 36 Wed Apr 28, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 20:43 EDT Ted, I can't imagine what you use the combination for, Ted. I use the single quote to repeat a payee or category from one check to the next, but not the combo. I'm not sure that it matters here. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 37 Thu Apr 29, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:42 EST Ted, I use Pha$ar daily and Sentry all the time, and I have not been able to reproduce your problem in or out of Pha$ar. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 38 Thu Apr 29, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:18 EDT The ' key is used in Phasar to copy the field that you are in from the previous entry... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wednesday, April 28, 1993 - 9:10:34 pm ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 39 Thu Apr 29, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 10:02 EDT My turn, Ted can you be a bit more specific? I have no problem with PHA$AR. We both run the same computer; are using TOS 2.06 or 2.05? Let me know the exact details and I will try it no mine. Brian ... Written on Thursday 29 April 1993 at 10:30 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 40 Thu Apr 29, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:11 EDT Phil, I no longer use Pha$ar.. I can get it to bomb just using SS on my Mega4 STe without anything else loaded.. Just type anything anything you want real fast, then hit the single quote key ['] and the space bar, in that order.. On my machine it's 3 bombs each and every time. My friend has a 1040STe, with 4 megs and it only does it on his while in Pha$ar?? Phil, it didn't do this in the last version.. It worked fine.. I may have to go back to the old version, for now... God, I was hoping there was an easy fix to this... I have been w/o SS now for over a week and I miss it big time... :( Thanx, <-:}Ted{:-> Thursday, April 29, 1993 - 7:47:18 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 41 Thu Apr 29, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 19:57 EDT >Message 39 Thu Apr 29, 1993 >BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 10:02 EDT > >My turn, > > Ted can you be a bit more specific? I have no problem with PHA$AR. We >both run the same computer; are using TOS 2.06 or 2.05? > >Let me know the exact details and I will try it no mine. >------ Brian, See my post just before this... I am running TOS 2.06.. I can get SS to give 3 bombs by typing this, gksdojf dkofjsfjpsd uoip (real fast), and then hit the ['] single quote key and then the space bar..... My friend has the same problem while using Pha$ar with the space bar and the ' key.. Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Thursday, April 29, 1993 ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 42 Thu Apr 29, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:08 EDT Ted, >I am running TOS 2.06.. I can get SS to give 3 bombs by typing this, > gksdojf dkofjsfjpsd uoip (real fast), and then hit the ['] single > quote key and then the space bar..... Why would you want to type "dkofjsfjpsd" anyway [grin]? Anyway, I only have TOS 2.05 and twice in a roll the computer would lock up and I could go no further. However, I have quite a few acc and autoprograms. Therefore I tried it on a clean system. After fifteen attempts, nada. I started adding things and only once I have added MultiDesk did it bomb again. I am not accusing MD rather something inside it. Now, the question Ted. Did you try it on a totally clean system? Nothing but the HD .sys file and nothing else? Does it still occur for you? Do you use any of the following accessories: Abbreviator ST, Calender 63, EdHak, CodeKeys, Warp 9 CP? I am not accusing any of them. However, these are in my MD as resident acc. Once MD was added to the chain with these acc, then I got the "bug". Brian ... Written on Thursday 29 April 1993 at 09:47 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 43 Fri Apr 30, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 00:31 EST Ted, Since most of us out here don't see this problem you have with the ' Maybe you need to strip the computer of all AUTO and .ACC programs and then add back SS, and try it again. Sounds like a conflict to me... ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 44 Fri Apr 30, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:22 EDT Ted, Experiment with the fast-load bit. I've found some software that bombs mysteriously (and even causes other software to bomb) all because the fast- load bit was set. If you use Warp 9, you should have all the FL bits set to off except for the bit in Warp 9 itself. Then you can control all fast-loading from W9. Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 45 Fri Apr 30, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:21 EDT Brian & all: It happens to me all the time when in Aladdin.. I'm not sure about other programs.. When I said type "fjdijiwekdl", I meant 'type' anything, then hit the single ' key and the space bar.. >Now, the question Ted. Did you try it on a totally clean system? Nothing but >the HD .sys file and nothing else? Does it still occur for you? Yep! I have Xboot and with everything stripped away, and in Aladdin I can get it to bomb each and everytime... This was the 1st thing I did.. It just may be TOS 2.06 or something.. It's not a conflict with some other program for sure.. I mean, I ran a 'bare' system.. No ACC, no Auto prg's, no CPX's.. NOTHING.... Al: I have all the Fastbits set to off.. I think.. I'll check again for sure... Thanks for trying to help guys, but I think Phil may have to look into this one.. Later, ' <-:}Ted{:-> Friday, April 30, 1993 - 8:11:24 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 46 Fri Apr 30, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 23:37 EDT Phil, I sent in for an upgrade, have you gotten my disk and money? thanks Ben Aein ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 47 Sat May 01, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 00:38 EST Ted, Two other things. What HD driver, and any caches active? Don't have the problem on TOS 1.4 system... But then I don't have the latest upgrade, come to think of it... Ron ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 48 Sat May 01, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 08:37 EDT Ron, I have ICD HD driver 6.0.7 and thier cache loaded... No neither did I.. My problem appeared with this latest version of SS.. It might have something to do with TOS 2.06.. A fellow from my user group with an upgraded 1040 ST & 2.06 can duplicate the same problem.. This makes three 2.06 machines that can cause SS to bomb.. 1. My Mega4 STe with 2.06 2. A 1040 STe 4mb and 2.06 3. A 1040 ST 2.5mb and 2.06.. I wonder if Phil works with 2.06?? Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Saturday, May 1, 1993 - 7:19:42 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 49 Sat May 01, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 17:34 EDT Ted: It looks like you're problem is a very strange interaction between Spelling Sentry and TOS 2.06. I'll communicate with you via private e-mail to solve the problem. B.Aein: Yes, we received your upgrade order. It will be processed shortly. Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 50 Sat May 01, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:47 EDT Phil, Ted Don't forget I could duplicate it with TOS 2.05 WHEN I have MDD with some accessories. Again, it isn't MDD rather one of my accessories. Just let me know what the verdict is. Great program that I can't do without!! Brian ... Written on Saturday 01 May 1993 at 06:45 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 51 Sun May 02, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 11:25 EDT Phil, Thanks.... <-:}Ted{:-> Sunday, May 2, 1993 - 8:54:50 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 52 Sun May 02, 1993 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 13:46 EDT Phil, I just received the upgrade to Spelling Sentry v1.21. I like to phonetic spelling feature! Excellent. Now for some bad news. With G+Plus v1.5 and the Visual Signal enabled it crashes the system with 4 bombs. I removed everything from the system and it still happens. Not a big deal for me, I just turned off the Visual Signal. Jeffrey ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 53 Sun May 02, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 15:36 EDT Ted, Your spelling has improved considerably. Maybe when SS was working for you, it taught you everything you needed to know. ;^) Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 54 Sun May 02, 1993 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 17:47 EDT Phil, Just found a problem with abbreviation expansions. If you are holding down either Shift key while an abbreviation is expanding, the abbreviation itself is not deleted. The backspace does not function if either Shift key is held down. This is with TOS 1.04. Jeffrey ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 55 Sun May 02, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 18:12 EST >> Now for some bad news. With G+Plus v1.5 and the Visual Signal << >>enabled it crashes the system with 4 bombs. I removed everything << >>from the system and it still happens. Not a big deal for me, I << >>just turned off the Visual Signal. << Sure would be a big deal for me. I use the computer in an alcove off the master bedroom, and often computer when my wife sleeps, and the visual signal is a necessity for me. Glad I haven't sent in for the upgrade yet. Will wait until it gets debugged a bit. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 56 Sun May 02, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 19:25 EDT Jeffrey: Are you sure the visual signal makes Spelling Sentry crash on a clean system (no "special" accessories or AUTO programs)? What machine are you using, and what monitor? Regarding abbreviations and the shift key: This is a problem with whatever underlying program you're using. Some programs sample the state of the shift keys when they receive a character, usually so they can distinguish command- key combinations. Spelling Sentry sends a stream of backspaces to the program to erase the abbreviation prior to substituting the expansion. When the underlying program gets the backspace, it also notices that the shift key is down and ignores what it thinks is a shift/backspace combination. The solution: Release the shift key before the end of the abbreviation. Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 57 Sun May 02, 1993 VORTEXT at 21:01 EDT An update to Spelling Sentry? Guess I should have checked in earlier. Okay, I'll bite, What do I need to do? Daniel ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 58 Mon May 03, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:53 EST Message 54, Sun May 02, 1993 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] > The backspace does not function if either Shift key is held < > down. This is with TOS 1.04. < Not a problem with TOS 3.05 >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 59 Mon May 03, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 07:58 EDT >Message 53 Sun May 02, 1993 >K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 15:36 EDT > >Ted, > >Your spelling has improved considerably. Maybe when SS was working for you, it >taught you everything you needed to know. ;^) >--------- Ken: Thanks... But I don't think nuttin' but SS can help me now... :D.. Phil and I are working on a solution.. Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Monday, May 3, 1993 - 6:45:38 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 60 Mon May 03, 1993 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 20:18 EDT Phil, You are right about the Shift key. Aladdin seems to be the only program that interprets the Shift key with BackSpace. Now for the G+Plus v1.5 problem... with just G+Plus I get NO visual signals. With G+Plus and Warp 9 v3.75 I get the bombs. Jeffrey ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 61 Tue May 04, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:08 EST Jeffery, I don't think you will need to worry about the shift key thing when the new Aladdin finally comes out. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 62 Tue May 04, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:11 EDT Phil: "Hoo-Ray"... :D It works.... Mucho Gratitude, <-:}Ted{:-> Tuesday, May 4, 1993 - 8:39:02 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 63 Sat May 08, 1993 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 00:33 EDT >> Joe M << I've been "hearing" about the new Aladdin that I'm beginning to believe that we'll never see it 8^)! Jeffrey ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 64 Sat May 08, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 10:30 EST Jeffery, Trust me, there is a new Aladdin and it will be ready the day GEnie gets all the bugs out of some of their new systems. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 66 Sat May 08, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 11:17 EDT Is this what the Aladdin folks has announced? Or is this your words, Joe? ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 67 Sat May 08, 1993 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 15:52 EDT Can Spelling Sentry work in a upper and lower case sensitive mode for just select words? My biggest typing problem is that I tend to type "i" a lot because i accidently let go of the Shift key too soon. Thanks, --big mike ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 68 Sun May 09, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EDT Big Mike, Yes. I have SS set up to that "i" is always changed to "I"... Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 69 Sun May 09, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 10:33 EST > Is this what the Aladdin folks has announced? < I only speak for myself. I am not Aladdin. However based on all I know it is true. Sorry that is all I can or should say. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ more.... Al beat me to it. Just add i to your abbreviation list. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 70 Sun May 09, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 11:22 EDT To all Spelling Sentry 1.21 owners: We have solved two problems reported with this release: 1) Word containing just a ' causes a crash; 2) screen flashing causes a crash. These problems appear on some hardware/software combinations only. If you have Spelling Sentry 1.21 and would like to receive a fix for these problems, send e-mail to P.COMEAU1. Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 71 Sun May 09, 1993 A.MASON4 [Anna] at 21:44 EDT Phil, I FINALLY got around to installing v1.21 yesterday and I'm having major 'bomb' problems. Since I haven't been able to log onto GEnie very often in the past few weeks, I don't know if I missed anything about this. I have a 1040ST, 4 megs, TOS 2.06 with NeoDesk , MultiDesk Deluxe, Warp 9 and UIS III loading at bootup. Everything loads fine and I am able to run a program (i.e....Tracker ST), enter data, but as soon as I press RETURN, my system crashes. Everything runs fine if I disable SS. Any ideas??? . Thanks. Anna ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 72 Mon May 10, 1993 WAYNED. [Wayne] at 19:27 EDT Anna, Try shutting off everything else and see if SS works by itself. What version of UIS III do you have? The latest if 3.32, if you're still using 3.0 or somewhere slightly over that it could be your problem. Also are you usning the latest NeoDesk stuff with the Jar program in the Auto folder? Try shutting everything off but SS and then put things back one by one until you find the conflict. I suspect you either have an old UIS or something. Either that or you might have to shuffle the order of a few things in your Auto folder. Wayne ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 73 Mon May 10, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 20:54 EDT Phil, A few sugestions, 1 Put a line of space between the list of suggested words 5. 6. 7. it 8. mit 9.fit 19.grit 11. 12. 2 Alow the mouse to be able to position the curser in the editable field 3 Use the Fkeys as hot keys for functions in SS user configed? Recheck spelling, add to dictionary, ignore, Add abrev, edit Abr ect. 4 To be able to change the dict search in the middle of correcting 5 BATCH MODE!!! 6 right click for recheck spelling Thanks Bman ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 74 Tue May 11, 1993 M.MURRAY18 [big mike] at 00:52 EDT Thanks Al and Joe. I'm looking forward to purchasing the program. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 75 Wed May 12, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] (Forwarded) Hi! I am not sure if this is the place to ask. Is there a Spelling Sentry topic? I am getting an error message: ERROR INITIALIZING THE MAIN DICTIONARY ERROR CODE=0xffdf I tried the suggestions mentioned in the User's Guide - they did not work. I am using a MEGA4 STe and have not had this problem before. LATER: Solved my own problem. I had renamed the SENTRY folder to something else and did not realized that it made a difference. I am posting this anyway just in case someone else has this same problem. KenO. :) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 76 Thu May 13, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 08:07 EST > I am not sure if this is the place to ask. Is there a < > Spelling Sentry topic? < This is it. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 77 Thu May 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:18 EDT Ken, Sentry will do that if it can't find the dictionary. Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 78 Sat May 15, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 09:05 EDT Mr. VORTEXT: There is an announcement in the library regarding Spelling Sentry 1.2. The same announcement was reproduced here... The announcement was dated 19 March 1993. Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 79 Sun May 16, 1993 R.PILATO [bob] at 09:47 EDT I can't get 1.20 to print out a correct time abbreviation. It will print the hour but not the minute or second. If I eliminate the "&h" from the default macro, it will print out the minute but not the second. I am using a MSTe 4, and the Control Panel's clock is properly set to a.m./p.m mode. Hope you can solve this problem, because this feature will come in handy. Thanks bob pilato ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 80 Sun May 16, 1993 A.MASON4 [Anna] at 14:13 EDT Wayne, I have the latest versions of NeoDesk, UIS III, Warp 9 and MultiDesk Deluxe. Until I changed from v1.11 to v1.21 of SS, I had no problems whatsoever. For now, until I have the time to figure out what is interfering with the new version, I have reverted back to my old standby Abbreviator ST and can use my WordPerfect spellchecker. Anna ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 81 Sun May 16, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:54 EDT Thanks for the update Phil. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Sunday 16 May 1993 at 09:21 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 82 Thu May 27, 1993 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 17:58 EDT Yeah Phil, the update worked like a charm. Thanks! ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 83 Sun Jun 06, 1993 J.WILES1 at 07:46 EDT Phil, Thanks for the update. Everything is working great but I'll let you know if I run across any problems. Jeff ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 84 Sun Jun 06, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 12:24 EDT Phil, Do you own MultiTos? I can't get the abbreviation function to work under it. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Sunday 06 June 1993 at 12:52 p.m. ADT I can't do without my Spelling Sentry. It is a great utility! ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 85 Mon Jun 07, 1993 K.DUMUMONT [CABLE] at 01:35 EDT Okay, here I go! First let me say that I love SS. It does wonders for me as a teacher. My problem is this, with my upgrade to version 1.21, I inherited a problem. When using SS with Pagestream 2.2, background check on, I correct a word. The problem the incorrect word doesn't fully erase, it always leaves the first letter. I only seem to have the problem with Pagestream right now. Any takers on this on? CABLE ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 86 Mon Jun 07, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:21 EST Cable, You might try playing with the backspace delay in the options area. Try a higher number. Phil, I just tried cleaning out my system. Booting clean sure makes my system a lot different. I then only had Sentry as an accessory and no auto programs (Sentry only TSR). I still had the problem I had been having with Sentry seeing all the key strokes made while in Sentry and it would replay them as if I had made those key strokes before calling Sentry. For Example if I were to edit the word being checked and end up with a word longer or shorted than the original work, Sentry will add or subtract those spaces when it corrects the word. It is a bigger problem for me since I use CodeKeys to call Sentry functions and Sentry thinks my calls to CodeKeys are part of the original word. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 87 Mon Jun 07, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 08:06 EDT Strange Joe. I use CodeKeys without any problems. I wonder what the problem is? ~~~~Brian ... Written on Monday 07 June 1993 at 08:31 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 88 Tue Jun 08, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EDT Joe, I use CodeKeys all the time, and SS all the time. I don't have that problem. Maybe you need to check the order in which they are loading. Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 89 Tue Jun 08, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 03:43 EDT Phil, Thanks for the update to SS. I was wondering if you would ADD an option to Not load the dictionary when booting the acc's. I would like to use the ABR. functions without using all the time and memory with loading the Dict. Please consider this and any other users who would like this please speak up!!! Thanks Bman ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 90 Tue Jun 08, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 19:00 EST Message 88, Tue Jun 08, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] > Maybe you need to check the order in which they are loading. < Why didn't I think if that. I will do that and see if it works, it sure makes sense. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 91 Wed Jun 09, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:22 EST Thanks. I resorted my accessories (and changed codekeys) to place Sentry last (first) and it corrected the problem I was having with my application seeing and recording the keystrokes I was using in Sentry. Well almost, it still sees the final enter I use to exit Sentry and sends me to the next line, but that I can live with. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 92 Wed Jun 09, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 08:13 EST >> Well almost, it still sees the final enter I use to exit << >>Sentry and sends me to the next line, but that I can live with. << >> << Hummm. I don't use an 'enter' when I leave Sentry, just a mouse click... ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 93 Thu Jun 10, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:05 EDT Joe, I have Sentry outside, and CodeKeys inside, MDD. (And many other DAs inside MDD.) With that arrangement, I haven't had any of the conflicts. Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 94 Thu Jun 10, 1993 M.SHANNON at 22:45 EDT Phil, I'm a registered user of GramSlam, can I get a discount on SSentry? Thanks ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 95 Fri Jun 11, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:49 EST Al, I am using the same set-up you have. Sentry outside and CodeKeys inside MDD. Could you check your "Return" key response? Just set up a correction in mid line like "catt" and see what Sentry does with it if you exit Sentry with a Enter vs clicking on Enter. Mmm... I just did a test and I found that not only did I have the curser drop to the next line when I used the keyboard selection method (Alt # for choice and "Return for replace) but Sentry backspaces one too many spaces changing: test catt to: testcat BTW I did increase my backspace time to over 100 till I could count the backspaces. It is consistent and repeatable. Could you check that out also? >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 96 Fri Jun 11, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:04 EDT Joe, I don't have any delay in the backspacing. I have seen a few problems when I am running a loaded system when doing beta testing under a certain situation which I can't discuss here, but that's the only time. The RETURN key exits SSentry with no effect on CK. Durn if I know what's causing your difficulties! Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 97 Sat Jun 12, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 09:40 EDT Joe M: Do you have Spelling Sentry 1.22? There was a bug like the one you described a few versions back, but it was fixed. M.SHANNON: Sorry -- we aren't currently offering discounts. (With the state of the Atari market just now, offering discounts would probably qualify us for registered charity status 8^). Mail-order houses like Toad or Joppa usually sell for a good deal less than list price. However, if you have an Atari dealer in your area, I recommend you support them (they probably achieved registered-charity status long ago). B Man: Sorry...you can't turn off Spelling Sentry's spell checking ability independent of its abbreviation ability. Maybe in a future version. Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 98 Sun Jun 13, 1993 G.KICHOK [Gerry K] at 02:33 EDT Joe M, I recently purchased Spelling Sentry 1.22 and after playing around with Abbreviations I found some did not do the back spaces properly. gk = Gerry Kichok I would type 'gk' and get gGerry Kichok or worse I had problems with linking several abbreviations also. The only way I was able to fix these was to start a new abbreviation and delete the old one which has seemed to fix things, have you tried this. I also set the Backspace and Character delays to 2 ms. Last Edited on 13/June/93 at 00:30 hrs Gerry Kichok Hamilton-Burlington-Oakville Atari User Group Librarian ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 99 Sun Jun 13, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 08:51 EDT Phil: May be the debut of the "Falcon" finally, will help take some of the "charity-status" away, and let you guys make a 1/2 decent living?? Here's hopin'... <-:}Ted{:-> Sunday, June 13, 1993 - 7:55:58 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 100 Sun Jun 13, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 14:16 EST I guess I will have to unload my system again and see if I can find it. Anyway thanks again for the partial answer. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 101 Sun Jun 13, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 17:43 EST > Do you have Spelling Sentry 1.22? There was a bug like the < > one you described a few versions back, but it was fixed. < I have version 1.20 How do I up date? I am planning to be at Ashville NC, will you be their? I generally have seen you at WAACE. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 102 Sun Jun 13, 1993 A.MASON4 [Anna] at 22:58 EDT I just got back from vacation recently and tried to re-install v1.21 of Spelling Sentry. It is still causing my system to crash and I can't figure out why.....all previous versions worked without any problems. I seem to remember reading a message the other day that mentioned v1.22. Is there a patch that I may have missed while I was gone? Thanks. Anna ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 103 Mon Jun 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:32 EDT Phil, I just had Sentry tell me that "farther" was not in its dictionary. It had "further," but not "farther." In American English, "further" denotes a concept ("Taking this idea further, I'll explain it this way...") while "farther" denotes physical distance ("It was a lot farther to Nashville than I thought."). I suspect that Canadian and British usage may allow "further" to be used in both cases, but we Amurricans are a little further along in our language development, possibly because we live farther from the Land of the Mother Tongue than some other English-speaking people. :) Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 104 Mon Jun 14, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 09:18 EDT Al >I suspect that Canadian and British usage may allow Actually, it appears to me that the dictionary is American made; I get a lot of errors when I use British spelling for words. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Monday 14 June 1993 at 09:41 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 105 Tue Jun 15, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 06:51 EST Al, I noticed the same lack. Further, there are a lot of words I would just as soon WEREN'T in there, such as ones suitable for a writer of erotic literature.. I would have to have a child using the computer come up with some of those words as alternatives for an incorrect word. Wish there was some way to edit the main dictionary.... Ron ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 106 Tue Jun 15, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:58 EDT Al, I'd say we're farther along, since along implies distance. ;^) (I try to watch those two words, too.) Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 107 Tue Jun 15, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:28 EDT Ron, I haven't yet run across any naughty words, but thanks for warning us that we might be surprised if we make an innocent typo. Ken Van ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 108 Tue Jun 15, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 19:51 EDT Gerry: Try increasing the backspace delay to 100 or so. That should do the trick. Ted: Let's hope the introduction of the Falcon makes a BIG difference... Joe: I'll e-mail a copy of 1.22 to you. Joe: The problem you described was fixed in 1.21. Seems to me you were the one who reported it, so I'm surprised I didn't send you a replacement SENTRY.ACC after it was fixed. Anna: I'll e-mail a copy of 1.22 to you as well. I can't be sure that it will solve your crashing problem, but at least we'll be on equal footing. Al: Your version of Spelling Sentry must be pre-1.20. In 1.20 we added about 11,000 more words to fill in some of the gaps in the dictionary. "Farther" is indeed in Spelling Sentry's dictionary now. As Brian H pointed out, Spelling Sentry's dictionary was obtained from an American source. Ron: You have a point. Those words were in the dictionary we purchased (honest!). Unfortunately, allowing users to edit the dictionary isn't possible for both technical and legal reasons. I have an idea: We could remove potentially offensive words from the main dictionary and put them in a separate user dictionary that could be included or deleted at the user's discretion. If enough users think this is important, we could do it in the next release. Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 109 Tue Jun 15, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 20:58 EST Phil, Thanks for the assistance in updating my copy of Sentry. I no longer have the problem with the return key registering. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 110 Tue Jun 15, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 22:29 EST Ken, I noticed a few, and then went looking. I can't think of any that AREN'T in there. Of course, everyone in this country over the age of 5 already KNOWS how to spell the 'f-word'. Grin. Can't see why it needs to be in the main dictionary, since, if I wanted to use it in my writing, I could easily add it... Phil, The words don't bother ME, but then I don't have children who might be using the computer.... ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 111 Wed Jun 16, 1993 M.SHANNON at 01:55 EDT Brian, Maybe it has to do with the fact that a lot of books found in England's bookstores won't be found here in our counrty due to their substance\stance author or content. Dictionaries are being revised here at an alrming rate. I found it fascinating that we just could'nt find certain books here. When I went through Moscow several years ago they wanted to know what BOOKs I had with me. Don'tja just love censorship? Morgan Ron, Amazing isn't it? Words can actually offend us. I'd think it was the person using them but, heck, who knows eh? I'd like to be able to edit both dicxtionaries also. Morgan ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 112 Wed Jun 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:27 EDT Yep, Phil, I have V. 1.11. I'll have to upgrade! Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 113 Wed Jun 16, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 07:20 EST >> Ron, Amazing isn't it? Words can actually offend us. I'd think << >>it was the person using them but, heck, who knows eh? I'd like to << >>be able to edit both dicxtionaries also. Morgan << Morgan, Words don't offend me, unless they are used in certain ways, maliciously, but some people would rather their children not encounter them before they are ready to explain the words meaning, and usage to their children. Grin. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 114 Thu Jun 17, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:00 EDT There are certain words I don't use that aren't used in polite conversation. I've had students (college) comment to me about that, and complain about use of offensive language by a prof. Perhaps it should be limited to consenting adults in private. (Someone has said that about tobacco smoke, too.) Ken Van ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 115 Thu Jun 17, 1993 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 20:14 EDT Well, I guess as a registered owner I'll throw in my two cents. The ability to edit the dictionary is interesting, but not a burning desire for me. I'd rather see some of the other features implemented before that one. As for removing the "naughty" words, don't waste your time. I don't need my software censored in the name of 'protecting' children. Fear No Words, Gordon ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 116 Fri Jun 18, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 16:33 EDT ALL, Re: "naughty" words Does that mean I should black out the same words in my hardcopy dictionaries? ~~~~Brian ... Written on Friday 18 June 1993 at 04:38 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 117 Fri Jun 18, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:09 EDT I think that our children will have heard the 'words' on the playground once or twice, long before they discover them in Spelling Sentry... :P Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Thursday, June 17, 1993 - 8:38:16 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 118 Fri Jun 18, 1993 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 21:53 EDT My copy of the Spelling Sentry dictionary didn't have "ash" - it had "ashen" and "ashes" though. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 119 Fri Jun 18, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:22 EST Gordon, I don't, and you don't, but I know some people who wouldn't buy the program if they knew those words were in the dictionary, and that the program might present them for an innocent typo. I question that the dictionary needs to contain 4 letter words that are seldom, if ever misspelled, and NEVER used in polite conversation. Such words should be in the user's dictionary, IF he needs them, and wants them there. No use offending a portion of one's potential market for no significant gain. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 120 Fri Jun 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:27 EDT Ted, You've got the main point. Adults who think they are "protecting" their children against naughty words are living in some kind of shell. Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 121 Fri Jun 18, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:40 EST >> Does that mean I should black out the same words in my hardcopy << >>dictionaries? << >> << Brian, I don't have ANY hardcopy dictionaries with the words I am talking about. >>My copy of the Spelling Sentry dictionary didn't have "ash" - it << >>had "ashen" and "ashes" though. << Yeah, noticed the same thing when I made reference to Koresch making an ash of himself. Grin. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 122 Fri Jun 18, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 23:45 EDT Ron, Are you serious? They aren't in your dictionaries? Desktop or pocket? I must be missing something. I remember in grade three or four having fun looking them up in the dictionary. Very interesting. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Saturday 19 June 1993 at 00:42 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 123 Sat Jun 19, 1993 M.SHANNON at 01:42 EDT Brian, Two courses NOT on the normal curriculum bur definately on the playground are SMUT.1 and SMUT.2 You can't hide from society and morality is a case of geography, nes'pa? Morgan Al, SHELL-domed mentioned words are the ones we seek to know. There are many synoyms for anarchy, the natural order of things. Morgan ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 124 Sat Jun 19, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 09:12 EDT MYECK: You must have a pre-1.20 version of Spelling Sentry. "Ash" is definitely in Spelling Sentry's dictionary now. See the notice in the library for upgrade details or contact me via e-mail (as soon as e-mail is working again...sheesh). Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 125 Sat Jun 19, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 09:50 EDT C'est vrai Morgan. (This is true, Morgan). I don't believe in censoring dictionaries. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Saturday 19 June 1993 at 09:39 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 126 Sat Jun 19, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 10:05 EST >>Ron, Are you serious? They aren't in your dictionaries? Desktop or << >>pocket? I must be missing something. I remember in grade three or << >>four having fun looking them up in the dictionary. Very << >>interesting. << The words I am talking about aren't in any of the dictionaries I have, nor in my pocket Thesarus (electronic). They are ones NEVER used in polite conversation, and are mostly of AngloSaxon derivation. I think you can figure which ones they are. Hint, look on the walls of public restrooms. Thing is, is there ANYONE who doesn't know how to sPELL them? >> You must have a pre-1.20 version of Spelling Sentry. "Ash" is << >>definitely in << Well, it's now in my user dictionary, so it doesn't make any difference to me, and I am no hurry for 1.2. No problems with 1.1 on this end, but I SURE would like to go directly to the correct word dialog rather than having that extra mouse click.... Sigh. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 127 Sat Jun 19, 1993 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 10:19 EDT Ron - If they don't offend you, then don't worry about it. There is no need, in my opinion, to act as devil's advocate for those who _might_ be put off because of those words. Let them voice their own objections if they exist. As for offending people because they are included, there is also a very real chance of offending somebody by censoring them. Me, for example. Hmmm, I wonder if GramSlam flags those words as being impolite? :-) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 128 Sat Jun 19, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 11:00 EDT Ron, > The words I am talking about aren't in any of the dictionaries I > have, nor in my pocket Thesarus (electronic). They are ones NEVER > used in polite conversation, and are mostly of AngloSaxon derivation. > I think you can figure which ones they are. Still seem strange to me. I guess I am using dirty dictionaries [grin]. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Saturday 19 June 1993 at 11:54 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 129 Sat Jun 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:44 EDT Ron, I agree on the action of SS when it beeps. I want it to go directly to the dialog; why else would I have responded to the ding? Phil, can't this be done? You'd make a lot of us very happy. Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 130 Sat Jun 19, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 14:31 EST >>because of those words. Let them voice their own objections if << >>they exist. As for offending people because they are included, << >>there is also a very real chance of offending somebody by << >>censoring them. Me, for example. << Huh? You were offended that farther, and ash weren't in there? I am sure that there are some other words that aren't there too. Grin. I am merely repeating the opinions of parents in our user group who would rather not have to explain the words to their children when they encounter them in the dictionary. It's something Phil needs to take into consideration. >> Still seem strange to me. I guess I am using dirty dictionaries << >>[grin]. << Webster's New Erotic Dictionary? Grin. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 131 Sat Jun 19, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 14:39 EDT Good one Ron [grin]. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Saturday 19 June 1993 at 03:35 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 132 Sun Jun 20, 1993 A.MASON4 [Anna] at 11:22 EDT Thanks Phil, I appreciate your help and support. I'll let you know if I have any problems with v1.22. Anna ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 133 Sun Jun 20, 1993 M.SHANNON [Morgan] at 23:23 EDT Ron, (isn't there a TOP for this old saw somewhere?) Parents have an implicit contract with their children to nourish educate and protect them as long as it's required. Parents who stfle curiosity in the name of protecting themselves from sitting on the proverbial hot-seat (facing their childrens spirit of inquiry) need to take a long hard look at themselves and their moralistic position in relation to language and concept, syntax and sin. Making themselves the moral models for their children is totally apart from attempting to "protect" their children from experiential concepts that are socially acknowledged (albeit NOT at the dinner table!?) thus mystifing the children even MORE SO than the institutionalized compulsory education they are currently being subjected to by Law. I have nothing more to say about this string (sorry for the long post, folks). Morgan PS: Phil, keep up the GREAT work! ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 134 Mon Jun 21, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 06:15 EDT Al, Good suggestion on the go directly to the correction mode when SS beeps on a misspell.. How 'bout it Phil?? Would save an extra step and horrible spellers like me 20 minutes of 'clicking' per day.. :D Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Sunday, June 20, 1993 - 7:25:20 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 135 Mon Jun 21, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:23 EDT Perhaps SS could come with a basic dictionary, without vulgar, obscene, or profane words, and those who want to expand it could add the words they think are important. (Would that be censorship, Brian? I think not.) SS has the ability to add words. Personally, I'd just soon have a dictionary that doesn't have a lot of stuff I will never use, particularly that kind of stuff, and, frankly, I would expect those who use that kind of language know how to spell it and don't need it in their spell checker. I've never checked to see what kinds of special-use words are in my hardcopy dictionary, but it has almost everything I've needed so far. I keep Webster's New World Dictionary of the English Language (second college edition, Prentice Hall) on my shelf (right next to my Glossary of Geology). "Don't write dirty words on walls if you can't spell." - Tom Lehrer Ron, Well put. Ken Van ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 136 Mon Jun 21, 1993 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 11:42 EDT Ken Van - Regardless of what you want to call it, suggesting that "vulgar, obscene, and profane" words be removed from the dictionary is indeed censorship. There's just no better word to describe it. Al and Ted - Are you suggesting that the "correct word" dialog pop up automatically upon a misspelling, or do you mean that it should be the default dialog displayed after the DA is selected from the menu? ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 137 Mon Jun 21, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 19:30 EDT Ron, Al: We'll probably make some change or other to simplify the word-correction process in the next release of Spelling Sentry. Don't know when that will be, though. Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 138 Mon Jun 21, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 19:50 EDT Gordon, Well put. Anyone, Got any books to burn? ~~~~Brian ... Written on Monday 21 June 1993 at 07:37 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 139 Mon Jun 21, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 21:07 EST >> Al and Ted - Are you suggesting that the "correct word" dialog << >>pop up automatically upon a misspelling, or do you mean that it << >>should be the default dialog displayed after the DA is selected << >>from the menu? << The 'correct word' dialog should appear any time the acc is called when a misspelling has been detected, as that is the logical reason, at that point, for calling the .acc. The extra mouse movement, and click just delays the correction process, often by as much as making the proper selection, and correction. Better yet would be a dialog box with all the functions available from it. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 140 Tue Jun 22, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 02:36 EDT Gordon, Yeah, but it'd be bunches of fun fighting over who decides which word is what, no? I mean, some years it's a toss-up as to the greater obscenity: boss or Monday. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 141 Tue Jun 22, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:23 EDT Gordon, A better way to describe it would be simply choosing words most likely to be used and needed. Most people I hang around with don't use the words in question, but could spell them if they wanted to. I don't call it censorship that some of my vocabulary isn't included in SS. OK, let's stop hiding behind little kids. I'm not comfortable around people who use the kind of language we're discussing. I teach college, and I wince when I walk down the hall and hear it. It would seem that people with that much education could communicate satisfactorily without it. I've had students complain to me about a faculty member who warned the class that he used it, and if they didn't like it they could change to a different section. Apparently my dictionary has been censored. At least it doesn't have a few four-letter words I checked for after the subject came up here. I happen to prefer it that way. I suppose people who use that kind of language think it should be in every dictionary or it's censorship, but by that kind of logic, choosing to omit any words would be censorship, and all dictionaries would be complete and unabridged. If choices are made as to which words to omit, why not omit those words that are not used by polite society? It would make space for more needed words. Ken Van ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 142 Tue Jun 22, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:05 EDT Which polite society? I write fiction. I don't sell it, but I _do_ write it. If, however, you don't use the words they'll seldom show up in a spelling check. But I understand your point. I can see a "Profanity OFF/ON" Option. Put the words in a separate dictionary and if SS sees them it would beep to let you know that, yes, it is spelled correctly, but you really don't want it in your document. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 143 Tue Jun 22, 1993 SANDY.W [sysop] at 14:30 EDT I do not believe knowing how to spell those words is the issue. For those that use the real time spelling check feature, being beeped for words you know are spelled correctly is irritating. For whatever reason, this dictionary was chosen for this product. It could very well be that this particular dictionary provided the best cross section of words for the cost from all dictionaries available. That would certainly influence my decision. It has already been stated by the developer that part of the agreement was the dictionary would not be altered. Personally, I am much more interested in the fact that the words I do commonly use are there, than any censoring of words I might not like. I see no problem with any words such as these in a general product designed for a large cross section of people. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 144 Tue Jun 22, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:19 EDT Ken Van >I suppose people who use that kind of language think it should be in >every dictionary or it's censorship, You suppose WRONG! Let see. I want the word marmalade in the dictionary and thus I must use it on my toast? Right? WRONG! Real fatal flaw in logic theory. BTW, who gets to choose the words? I never saw one of these words, I use Spelling Sentry at least five hours a day, until this subject came up. We definitely, in a leisure surplus society where something like this takes such a turn. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Tuesday 22 June 1993 at 05:43 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 145 Tue Jun 22, 1993 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 17:35 EDT Sorry Ken Van, but I have no interest (or tolerance) in you or anyone else deciding which words are "polite" and which words aren't. And for the record, the only ones hiding behind children are the ones that are wringing their hands over so-called bad words. But I've said more than enough on this subject for now and will drop it for now. Ron - I agree that it can be a pain to call up the correct word dialog, but I rarely let SS correct the word for me. Once I hear the beep I can usually correct it myself. Therefore, when I do call up the SS dialog, it's not always to correct a word. Heck, it might have been several minutes (and several words later) since it beeped at me. It'd be a pain on Phil's part to try and guess why the user was selecting the DA. But having said that, I can see the merit in what you're suggesting... ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 146 Tue Jun 22, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:40 EDT True Gordon. I use Spelling Sentry more as a proof reader; it corrects my typos. Most of them I can change quicker myself. BTW, I use CodeKeys to get where I want in the DA. I will try to shut up now too [grin]. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Tuesday 22 June 1993 at 06:39 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 147 Tue Jun 22, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 18:25 EDT Gordon, I agree with you on the 'vulgar' word removal.. Sheesh.... On the correct word dialog thing.. I mean Phil might make it optional to have the "pop-up" automatically, upon a misspelling.. I mean have it open right into the correct word dialog box with the sixteen or so suggested/corrected words displayed.. I find it a real pain since I can't spell a lick, to have find the SS box hidden behind Aladdin and then to have to click on "Correct Word" box in order to get the correct word box... Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Tuesday, June 22, 1993 - 6:44:32 am ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 148 Tue Jun 22, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 21:24 EST I'll add my two cents. Who is to decide what is polite words? I really don't like the idea of censorship I tried to find out what words were in there and all the ones I could think of were in there (no beeps when I typed them), except for the ones I mis-spelled. I like the idea of opening directly to the "Correct Word" box when called. It could have one button to take it back to the "Options" box from there. As I have it now that is almost what I have. I call SS with CodeKeys and have it open the Correct Word box when called. Is there a way to have SS close it's box every time a "Correct Word" is chosen so the SS window will not be open in the background? >> Joe M << ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 149 Tue Jun 22, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 21:43 EST >>complete and unabridged. If choices are made as to which words to << >>omit, why not omit those words that are not used by polite << >>society? It would make space for more needed words. << My feelings, exactly. Since I already KNOW how to spell words in question, they needn't take up space in the dictionary, and farther, and ash could have made the 'first cut'. Grin. >>words I might not like. I see no problem with any words such as << >>these in a general product designed for a large cross section of << >>people. << Ok, Sandy, what happens to me if I start to USE those words here? Now do we need those words in our dictionary? YOU use them here, and I will shut up, but I suspect you WON'T, as they would violate GEnie rules. I think that is the bottom line. They are NOT acceptable in polite conversation, or writing, and I DON'T need them in my dictionary. If I DID, the first time I used them, I would add them to the user dictionary, and that would be that. I suspect I KNOW where the dictionary came from, as I had a similar conversation with a programmer of a previous spell-checker about them. His reaction was that he didn't give a 'damn' if I liked them or not. He is no longer in the ST software business. His attitude began to show in the support of his product, and STers just stopped buying his product. I suppose THAT is the ultimate censorship, isn't it? I feel it is only fair to warn prospective purchasers of the package that some words in the dictionary are not used in polite conversation and might be offensive. >>part to try and guess why the user was selecting the DA. But << >>having said that, I can see the merit in what you're << >>suggesting... << I would guess, at least from my experience, that in 99% of cases if there has been a recent beep (last 40 characters), then the user would be calling the .acc to correct the word. A bit of intelligence here would save time, and isn't that the bottom line? I could look up every word in the dictionary, one by one, if I had infinite time (and patience)... ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 151 Wed Jun 23, 1993 B.GOCKLEY [Brian G.] at 00:04 EDT Just a thought, I get more embarrassed when those words are used in front of my seventy year old parents rather than my three year old daughter! BTW, Phil. no go on the upgrade so far, but another vote for the pop up misspellings. Brian G. @ ST Informer Magazine ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 152 Wed Jun 23, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 01:11 EDT This conversation is becoming more offensive than those words. Different strokes, I guess. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 153 Wed Jun 23, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 02:34 EDT yeah right, Ken, ...polite society is sooo comfortable with words and concepts like, "collateral damage", which means the murder of the 'enemy's civilian population by whatever means' but soooo upset by some old anglo saxon words for rather normal bodily functions! Really odd, don't you think? You teach college? Geez, that's just great. Do you teach English or Literature by any chance? Seems to me that over the last 20 or so years there have been numerous intelligent authors and social commentators that also choose to use 'those words' rather purposefully! You see, it all exploded around the time of Lenny Bruce, who paid during his lifetime quite severly for us to be able to open our minds and laws to the fact that there are no 'bad' words. Many others also paid a portion of that price in those times and most of those that did were in fact either teaching or attend college. Curious, eh? %^) I don't what the point is about someone who uses those words knowing how to spell them. My understanding of a spell-checker is that it is a tool to catch mistakes on the written page. How often have -you- had a spell-checker catch a typo like 'hte'? It happens, no? And, geez, we all know how to spell "the", right? I think you see my point. I, for one, would never care to us return to the times when 'certain' words were not allowed in book, or on TV, etc.. I've been there. First you take them out of the dictionaries, then the books, then arrest people who even say them in public. Why? Because it makes somebody 'uncomfortable'! Perhaps an examination of exactly what that un-comfort is might be a good approach. Now other than that, I really don't give a big Nixon, what words are in or out of the dictionary! %^) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 154 Wed Jun 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:05 EDT The default dialog, Gordon. Al Ken Van, I don't wince when I hear words. I wince when I see violence. Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 155 Wed Jun 23, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:49 EDT ORCA, I teach geology and environmental science. Just finished 28 years at a public college and a bunch of high school before that. Yep, I started at the college in the mid-sixties, so I guess I'm just a little behind the times. I've found the discussion here interesting, but it's probably time to leave it. I'm disappointed about the in-your-face attitude that's becoming so widespread, though, including here. "Ve vill tell you vhat ve think you should have in your dictionary and you'd better like it." I thought my suggestion about having a basic dictionary was a good one. People who want to add their specialized words can do so, and those who don't need 'em or want 'em aren't having to load them or have them take up our RAM. A little civility would help society as whole. Get out on the highway and try to find a courteous driver who will let you change lanes in heavy traffic. It isn't getting any better, and I think the language thing is part of this. I occasionally use a vulgarity when I'm trying to find the right word to get a program to run, but I consider such language crude and would be careful about offending others with it. Nowadays many are not very conscious of this type of "air pollution". Maybe that's another symptom of the "me generation". People even use a slang word for sexual intercourse (which used to imply a loving relationship between two people) in a way that sounds like rape. Many of the words we're talking about are angry words, aren't they? There was a janitor at my wife's school who used colorful language when the children weren't around, but never did when they were. He know the difference. My wife didn't appreciate most of it, but at least gave him credit for being discrete, no doubt to keep his job. I wonder if he should have been allowed to operate "uncensored" because the kids have heard it all before. I guess I'll bow out on this subject. What I intended as a philosophical discussion seems to be getting a bit personal. It's a good thing people can't use "those" words here. ;^) Ken Van ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 156 Wed Jun 23, 1993 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 18:52 EDT Ouch. "Nixon". Now that offends me. Good thing it's not in the SS dictionary. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 157 Wed Jun 23, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 19:04 EST >>discussion seems to be getting a bit personal. It's a good thing << >>people can't use "those" words here. ;^) << Ken, Doesn't THAT, in itself, prove something? I think so. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 158 Wed Jun 23, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 22:52 EDT Al, I dislike violence, too. Let me make one more try to communicate. As I tried to say, obscenity and profanity are a kind of violence, too. They are often angry, assaultive words. That is true of their target, and possibly also innocent bystanders. Words can hurt. Being exposed to language that is considered inappropriate for GEnie, the Syracuse newspapers, etc., is offensive to many people, and that's a kind of violence in my book. Perhaps choice makes a difference. You may choose to expose yourself to certain types of entertainment (books, movies, etc.), that depict certain characters. That's different than being a target. As I see it, one should be able to choose not to go to R-rated movies and to choose not to purchase an R-rated dictionary. If you want to talk "dirty", do it when you're with people who want to hear it. It's the courteous thing to do. I wouldn't dream of using some of the language in class that I hear students use in the halls, even though I know they've all heard it before and some other profs use it. Is there any good reason to do so? I imagine I'll get some creative responses from some here who think so. I wonder what's politically correct on this. That's about being sensitive to other people's feelings, isn't it? Remember one of the charges in the Clarence Thomas hearings? He was accused of saying he thought there was a pubic hair on his beverage can. Those who believed the charge were appalled that he would say such a thing. I was a biologist before I became a geologist, and maybe my previous training affects my thinking, but this was a purely clinical term and I can't imagine what else he would have called it. I wonder why someone's fitness for the Supreme Court could be based on something like this, but some of those other words are perfectly OK to use anywhere you want. I hope you can explain this for me. Ken Van ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 159 Wed Jun 23, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 23:19 EDT Ken Van, Lest there be misunderstanding, I agree with you full well concerning polite usage. It generally takes little extra effort, if any, to speak well and gently (although, as you know, there are times... .) Given the idea that words are tools, I want to see them all, or have them available - the good, bad, ugly, and indifferent. From time to time I may also wish to know where they're used, by whom, in what contexts, their history and their parents, unto the generations. I figure it's up to me to choose the tools for the job at hand, however poorly or well I might do that choosing or work. Hmm, maybe discretion covers it adroitly enow. My thanks to Phil for allowing this drift, btw; it's been some interesting discussion. For the record, Spelling Sentry is on my "must buy" list, as finances allow. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 160 Wed Jun 23, 1993 M.SHANNON [Morgan] at 23:25 EDT Has anyone taken the time to resoearch the roots of any of these so-called vulgar or obscene "words" and their origins? I think this might be called for especially by those of us who proclaim that these "terms" are _below_ us and are not used in polite company and are offensive are obscene. Hear hear! Let those who would cast the first stone know where to find it! This string is becomming clouded by opinion NOT based in fact and therefore is acquiring an obfuscation worthy of litigation. If Epistemology and Philology aren't the launching pads for the opinions supporting censorship here then I suggest, respectfully, that those who take issue with whatever words are contained within our most precise laguage get off their butts and get to work. There is nothing more exasperating than opinion without foundation or substantiation. GHHHEEEEZZZSSSH! Perhaps JUNG's warning about the imaginary omnipotence of the Psyche is called for here. God save us from the moralists, may they ever languish in the satisfaction of their superior judgements. Amen Morgan (Did that offend anyone?!)[;^) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 161 Wed Jun 23, 1993 SANDY.W [sysop] at 23:38 EDT Ron - As this program is not intended to be used only on GEnie, I can't agree with your argument. There are plenty of other words in the dictionary that I don't personally use, but I am not going to demand that those words be removed. Maybe we should continue this discussion in category 18. There are probably some more concerned with other aspects of the program than what is in the dictionary. I think Phil is aware of the differences in opinion about this by now. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 162 Thu Jun 24, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 00:58 EDT >A little civility would help society as whole. Agreed. >I think the language thing is part of this. I try to judge people on their actions. If it is a situation where the language is inappropriate, I tell the person. I still think it is appropriate in a dictionary. I grew up where a dictionary was considered sacred. not on the same level as the bible but sacred. However, Ken, you are right words can hurt, in a sentenace. I disagree in a dictionary. Anyway, the reason I post was the following: THE ASSOCIATE PRESS (19.06.93): "A war of words is brewing between the publishers of two popular U.S. dictionaries." "In a news release this week, Houghton Mifflin challenged Merriam-Webster's "ain't" entry." Basically, accused M-W of stating ain't was OK to use. H M (American Heritage) goes on to state the stigma related to this word. Frederick Mish, (editor-in-chief of M-W Collegiate) stated regarding a dictionary purpose: "the importance of showing language as it is used." Therefore, this "battle" is far from only concerning inappropriate words. Jonesy, Get Spelling Sentry! I haven't heard of a disappointed user yet! Morgan, Yes I have researched. Perhaps, that's why I don't think they should be censored. Sandy is right. Let's continue intopic 9 of category 18! No, I am not trying to stifle discussion, heck I posted enough on it, rather the point has been clearly made here for both sides. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Wednesday 23 June 1993 at 10:42 p.m. ADT BTW, PC is being discussed in topic 9 of cat 18 at this very moment. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 163 Thu Jun 24, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:21 EDT Jonesy, Good post. I agree with your point about "I figure it's up to me to choose the tools for the job at hand..." Time for me to get on with other things, and I think I've drifted long enough. (Please hold the applause.) I'll resist being tempted to respond to anything else. If I haven't made my point by now, I probably never will. Morgan, Eschew obfuscation. Ken Van ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 164 Thu Jun 24, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:43 EDT Ken Van, What else he would have called it?? Maybe he wouldn't have mentioned it.Odd that you mention Clarence Thomas, who is known to be a big fan of X-rated movies. Yes, I understand how offensive language can be considered violent, but, alas, it's not violent; violence is. Offensive language is just ... offensive. Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 166 Thu Jun 24, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 19:00 EST >> There is nothing more exasperating than opinion without << >>foundation or substantiation. GHHHEEEEZZZSSSH! << You want foundation, or substantiation, try using those words to a police officer who stops you for a ticket, or try using them on the public areas of GEnie RTs. The fact that many people are offended by them is sufficient reason for many of us (who were raised to be polite, and considerate) to eschew their use. Not having a word in the dictionary isn't censorship, as it is physically impractical to have all the 2 million, or so, words in the English language in a computer-bases spelling dictionary. Somehow, I seems that I could have used such words as 'with' and 'able', and 'also' in my dictionary instead of other 4 letter words one commonly sees scrawled across restroom walls by immature persons with limited vocabularies. It isn't censorship, it is practicality I am after, and simple consideration. >>Ron - As this program is not intended to be used only on GEnie, I << >>can't agree with your argument. There are plenty of other words << >>in the dictionary that I << But Sandy, that is the POINT, I DO use Spell Sentry on GEnie, with Aladdin. Works just GREAT! ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 167 Thu Jun 24, 1993 SANDY.W [sysop] at 19:47 EDT No, Ron. The point is not that it works well with GEnie. The point is it works well in many other situations besides GEnie, where GEnie's restrictions have no bearing. To imply a program must be crippled because it is used on GEnie is ludicrous. This is the last I will say on this subject in this topic. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 168 Thu Jun 24, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:23 EST >>alas, it's not violent; violence is. Offensive language is just << >>... offensive. << Well, used in the wrong circumstances, or toward the wrong person, it has been known to provoke violence. Grin. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 169 Thu Jun 24, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:40 EST >>have no bearing. To imply a program must be crippled because it is << >>used on GEnie is ludicrous. This is the last I will say on this << >>subject in this << No one implied that SS was, or should be, crippled in any way. You, or others, can add ANY words to the user dictionary that you commonly use that are not in the main dictionary, as I have. SS works well with all the GEM applications I have. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 170 Fri Jun 25, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 00:30 EDT Ron, Please see my reply to your last post in topic 9 of category 18. Thanks. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Thursday 24 June 1993 at 09:45 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 171 Fri Jun 25, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 04:12 EDT You can buy Websters on the Mac. Nice package. It also comes with a hardcopy book. I'm not complaining. SS is great, and I'm grateful to have it. I think more words per dollar is the best price/performance.... ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 172 Fri Jun 25, 1993 T.EVANS21 [] at 06:38 EDT I'm just glad Phil wrote Spelling Sentry the %$#^&, ^%$#&*(@, program for us poor %%$#@% spellers, who like to swear & be correct in out spelling... :D Just kidding guys.. Phil bought a dictionary and can't make any changes to it.. Let's be thankfull for a much needed program, I am.... Later, <-:}Ted{:-> Thursday, June 24, 1993 - 6:44:34 pm ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 173 Fri Jun 25, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 19:10 EST >>Ron, << >>Please see my reply to your last post in topic 9 of category 18. << >>Thanks. << Sorry, I have cancelled Cat 18. Costs too much. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 174 Fri Jun 25, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 20:14 EDT No problem ROn, I was just trying to get this topic off of this thread. ~~~~Brian ... Written on Friday 25 June 1993 at 09:12 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 175 Fri Jun 25, 1993 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 22:16 EDT You're right, Phil, I've got version 1.11, if I read the thing correctly. I'll have to look up that update thingy. I'm completely puzzled what connection "polite conversation" has with a dictionary... ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 176 Sat Jun 26, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 00:59 EDT I seem to remember that Spelling Sentry has had the ability for me to type in an abbreviation but the first letter a capital one when I want it. For example, I've got the abbreviation xyz to write out "now is the time." I'd like to occasionally type in the abbreviation Xyz (in other words, capitalizing the first letter on the fly) and have it type out on the screen, "Now is the time." I thought SS could do this, but with the latest version, I can't. Am I mistaken about this? - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Friday, June 25, 1993 8:39 pm ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 177 Sat Jun 26, 1993 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 02:18 EDT ...well like "Mr. Dylan" once said, "...it ain't me babe!" ...I just love it when you talk dirty! ...I'm out'a here, it's been fun. %^) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 178 Sat Jun 26, 1993 M.SHANNON [Morgan] at 02:21 EDT Brian, Right! CAT 18 TOP 9 and lets get that list! Morgan Ken, OK, I will. Morgan Al, You're so concise. :^) Morgan Sandy, Sorry if I'm off string here but I'm interested in the list. Please speak to Brian. Let's get this clarified OK? Morgan ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 179 Sat Jun 26, 1993 P.COMEAU1 [Wintertree] at 11:57 EDT To all: The discussion regarding offensive words has certainly been interesting. I'll keep my personal opinion out of the discussion, because I think the case for both sides has been well presented. However, I'd like to raise a few points (of fact): First, the words in question were in the dictionary when we licensed it. Second, we *can* change Spelling Sentry's main dictionary. What we can't provide is the ability for Spelling Sentry users to change or even view the dictionary directly. The reason for this isn't to force offensive words on anyone; it simply protects the dictionary's creators from theft of their product. Third, changing Spelling Sentry to support a "Profanity On/Off" button or any similar scheme will take time away from developing other features that people have been asking for. Time is finite, and the ticking of Atari's "biological clock" gets louder every day. Joe M: Currently there is no way to have Spelling Sentry close after you select a replacement word. We'll rethink the whole word-correction process for the next release. Brian G: We'll mail a new upgrade disk to you in the next day or so. Jason Saffer: Yes, Spelling Sentry can capitalize the first word of an abbreviation expansion. Make sure the "Auto Caps" button in enabled and the "Case Sensitive" button is disabled (both in the Options dialog). Phil @ Wintertree ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 180 Sat Jun 26, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 15:25 EST >> Third, changing Spelling Sentry to support a "Profanity On/Off" << >>button or any similar scheme will take time away from developing << >>other features that people have been asking for. Time is finite, << >>and the ticking of Atari's << I think a warning of the contents, with a disclaimer, might be in order. As for not viewing the dictionary, this detracts somewhat from the value of the product, but you have contracts... ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 181 Sat Jun 26, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 20:33 EDT A WARNING ON A DICTIONARY???!!! It's called "abridged" or "unexplicated" or if severe "bowdlerized". No wonder I have to own three dictionaries and that's still not enough. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 182 Sat Jun 26, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 22:08 EDT I understand Phil. No problem. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 183 Sun Jun 27, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 02:47 EDT Jason, You'll have to create a 2nd abbrev that is listed as Xyz -- at least that's how I do it. Al ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 184 Fri Jul 02, 1993 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 22:08 EDT Hmmm...a "profanity off" button on a spelling checker? What would it do? Not beep if you spell a profane word incorrectly? Change all unacceptable words to "darn" and "shucks"? Play a digitized sample of a ruler rapping someone's knuckles? :^) ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 185 Sat Jul 03, 1993 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 09:07 EDT If the button was set to "profanity off" it would insert random swear words in your &*#! sentences. Ooops! Better turn that feature off before I get in trouble... :-) Gee, maybe we could have a "stupidity on/off" feature too which would stop people from sounding... naww. Never mind. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 186 Sat Jul 03, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 14:59 EST >> Gee, maybe we could have a "stupidity on/off" feature too which << >>would stop people from sounding... naww. Never mind. << That would result in a lot fewer posts, from some users... Grin. ------------ Category 13, Topic 17 Message 187 Sun Jul 04, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 14:21 EDT Phil, thanks for the feedback on how to get capitalization when I'm abbreviating. That was a helpful tip that I'd forgotten. Thanks much... - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Sunday, July 4, 1993 11:10 am ------------