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==========================================================================
 ************
Topic 19        Sat Mar 14, 1992
T.KAY3 [TKAY]                at 01:40 EST
Sub: CD ROM and SCSI on Atari ST

There's gotta be a way to run available CD ROM drivers on the ST! ? Does
anybody know how to do it?  And, who are the brave souls that want to write
the software drivers for it?
199 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 1         Fri Apr 01, 1994
GREG                         at 00:08 EST

Lee:

April is close and we will have a new CD of the month offer ready to go this
weekend. This one is really interesting.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 2         Fri Apr 01, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:01 EST

Greg,

        Great!  And me trying to save up for another printer! <grin> I'm
looking forward to it!

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 3         Sat Apr 02, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 10:02 EST

I'd like to get a CD-ROM player. I have a Mega STE 4 and a Falcon 4. I'd
prefer to use it on the Mega because of the type of information I'd plan to
use it for, but could put it on the Falcon and carry files to the Mega STE if
necessary.

The Mega STE has an external hard drive with an ICD host adapter, so the
connections are DMA. The Falcon has a SCSI port.

What would I need to connect a standard CD-ROM player to either of these
machines? I'd like to take advantage of Sterling Connection's special, which
expires on 4/10, so I'll have to determine soon whether this is possible for
me to do.

I hope this is the right topic for a general question like this.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 4         Sat Apr 02, 1994
M.G.LAWSON [M.G.]            at 10:15 EST

L.W. - It would appear that there is room for another drive but not practical.
Would it be possable using PC SPEED (IBM emulation) to access the external
CDROM thru the printer port on the St ala the IBM setup. Failing the above, my
last choice would be to download Atari cdrom "stuff" to my IBM, floppy it over
and transfer to my Atari.

Greg - What is this new Atari cdrom you are talking about?

Genie - Why not release a cdrom on the files/messages of days gone past, i.e.,
"genie review, 1990-93". I would gladly pay to have access to this info
without the hassle of searching on-line for the hidden 'gems' in the haystack
of info. This can be sorted by years or subject area. What do you guys think?

M.G.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 5         Sat Apr 02, 1994
POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC]      at 14:20 EST

Ken ... We own a Toshiba 3401 and have no problem with it at all. It is a SCSI
unit. We bought the external model specifically so that we can move it around.
I've had it plugged into the TT  using the standard SCSI to SCSI cable, the
Falcon using SCSI 1 to SCSI II cable and our DEC workstaions which also use
the same SCSI II connection as does the Falcon. I don't own a Mega STe but I
see no reason why you couldn't use ICD's The Link to go from DMA to SCSI on
it.

Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 6         Sat Apr 02, 1994
R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson]    at 21:32 EST

   The printer port on the ST is not Bidirectional and thus will not
 work for accessing drives through it. The Falcon on the other hand...

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 7         Sat Apr 02, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 23:41 EST

gnox,

Sterling Connection is selling their CD-ROM for $44 until 4/10 for previous
customers. Others pay $59.95. If you are one, you should have gotten a
mailing.
 722 EPS images
 5392 images in both IMG and IFF
 557 Type 1 fonts with AFM files
 196 GIF images
 143 DMF fonts for PGS 1.8
 130 forms for PGS
 700 business letters in ASCII TXT format
 230 Calamus fonts
 142 PI1 images
 Templicity, FontFarm, Cliptomania I and II, LogoLibrary, EPSalot...
 utilities, logos, classic PD, and a few surprises
 ISO-9660 format
 18,281 files, 274,011,332 megabytes = 391 3 1/2" 700kb floppies

From reading the messages here, I think I have figured out most of the answer
to my question about how to hook up a CD to my computers. The Falcon just
needs a cable, and the Mega STE could get by with a 25 to 50 pin cable if my
Host Adapter is new enough. If ICD keeps records on customers, Tom might be
able to tell me if my HA is new enough. Otherwise, I'll need the Link. Right?
What kind of cable connects the Link to the CD? It may be less expensive to
connect to the Falcon, and see later about switching over to the Mega STE.

BTW, does anyone know if A. B. Petrow is a man or a woman.  I've corresponded
via snail mail, and it's rather awkward to know how to start the letter.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 8         Sat Apr 02, 1994
R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn]    at 23:41 EST

Ken Van,
  To connect a SCSI CD-ROM drive to the Falcon you just need the appropriate
cable.  For the Mega STe, if your hard drive has a SCSI out port, you also
just need the right cable.  Just about any SCSI drive should do, it just
depends on how many $ you have to spend.  I have the Toshiba 3401, which is
very nice; other popular drives are NEC (various models, the latest are
3xi/3xe/3xp).

Regards, Roger
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 9         Sun Apr 03, 1994
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 01:03 EST

Roger,

Has anyone seen anything on the speed differences between NEC 3x and 4x
drives?  It seems like the price from 3X to 4X is close to double.

Will multi-session work with ExtenDOS on ICD host adapters?  Or only with SCSI
ports on the TT and Falcon.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 10        Sun Apr 03, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 01:54 EST

Ken Van -

I just received the sterling CD today and have not had a chance to play it,
but looking through the docs I see lots and lots of useful stuff.  The Fonts
go on endlessly and the clip art is pretty well representative of everything I
have collected as well.  This one disk replaces a couple of hard drive
partitions and two floppy storage cases!  Amazing.

Buy the disk.  Then you have an excuse to buy the player.   Use the player
with the Falcon and you have good reason to buy Photo Show and Studio Photo.
Wait till you start messing with digitized 35mm photos in 256 colors.  WoW.

PhotoShow Pro has a special with ExtenDOS right now, and that is the way to go
with CD-ROM on the Atari.  It's fun, it's easy, Do it now!

                                                      (:{ Grouch. ps - when
you get your player make sure it is multi-spin, multi-sesson, photo CD
compliant. Then you have your bases covered.  Double speed without a doubt, 3x
or 4x if you can afford it.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 11        Sun Apr 03, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 10:39 EDT

Ken Van,

If you have an Advantage or AdSCSI type host adapter it will work with CDROM
drives.  If it is an older STHA (classic) it will not. There is a program on
our distribution disk that identifies this. (Don't recall the name
though...maybe HOST.PRG?)

Otherwise look on the PCB.  The old classic says 90107.

 - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 12        Sun Apr 03, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 13:06 EDT

M.G.,

        I don't have a PC Speed so I don't know if that would work or not.
Oh, wait a minute.  Unless it's a Falcon, the Atari doesn't have a bi-
directional parallel port as Atari didn't implement enough lines.  On the
other hand, since PC Speed is hardware, you'd probably need a Falcon-aware
version of the driver software, which I don't think is likely.  There's a
product called a Falcon Speed, but I can't remember if it's a 32Mhz
accellerator or a PC emulator. <sigh> Remember you could floppy it over from
the 'BM to the ST or you could use a null modem connection.  Good luck with
it.

Grouch,

        In reading about the Sterling CD it sounded like - just another clip
art CD.  What about this documentation you get ?  Is there hard-copy of what's
on the disk ?  That alone would make it worth the $60.  I like to browse hard-
copy for ideas.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 13        Sun Apr 03, 1994
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 14:16 EDT

Grouch,

> Wait till you start messing with digitized 35mm photos in 256 colors.

You mean, over 65,000 colors!!!


Tintin
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 14        Sun Apr 03, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 14:30 EDT

Thanks, Nathan. It looks as though the Falcon would be least expensive to
connect to for starters, unless I have the right Host Adapter.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 15        Sun Apr 03, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 17:24 EDT

Roger,

Thanks. Are you the marketer of ExtenDOS? Apparently this is a necessity for
CDs. I'm considering the NEC 3XP or CDR-74 from TOAD. They're 450K vs 300K
sustained throughput, respectively, and 250ms vs 280ms. I don't know how much
difference this makes or how important portability might be.

Grouch,

Thanks. I'm thinking of going with the Falcon, but I'm not into color much. I
think I'd have more use for it on my monochrome Mega STE. I can always port
stuff over, though.

Tom,

Thanks. I'll check it. That's a big help. If the program doesn't answer my
question I'll have to come back to find out what a PCB is. <G>

Later... It was HOST.TOS. I have an STHA. :( A year or so ago my HD power
supply blew, and when I sent the drive in to you guys you asked me if I wanted
to upgrade. I couldn't see any need to do it then. So what are my options? Do
I upgrade now (how much?) or can I add the Link to my present external drive?

Lee B.,

My post should help you.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 16        Sun Apr 03, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 19:40 EDT

Albert,

Tests I have seen, and ones that my coworkers have done, put the 4X speed at
about the same throughput overall as the 3X. We even saw a speed increase in
the 3X. So I'd keep the money in my pocket and go for the 3X.

But for Atari work, a 2X drive is fine.

All,

I have partitions C-P used up now. When I add a CD-ROM to the TT, how many
partitions will it take up?

Tom,

Yes, HOST.TOS.

Al
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 17        Sun Apr 03, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 22:43 EDT

Ken,

I would say get a new product called The Link 2 or else upgrade to an AdSCSI
Plus ST.

 - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 18        Mon Apr 04, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 07:39 EDT

Tom,

Thanks, but you're assuming too much. What's an AdSCSI Plus ST, who sells it,
and how much money? For that matter, what's a Link 2 and how much is it? (I
expect with a name like that it must be from ICD. ;)

Ken
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 19        Mon Apr 04, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 09:40 EDT

You are right Ken. I guess I better put some sales literature in the ICD RT so
you can get educated.  (m1220;1)

        - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 20        Mon Apr 04, 1994
POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC]      at 10:13 EDT

Put that sales literature in here too Tom. I want to get educated also! ;-)

Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 21        Mon Apr 04, 1994
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 13:31 EDT

Al,

I still have an old NEC-73 single speed drive.  Works fine with everything but
it is a bit slow.  It does work single session Photo CDs however.

(forget the with in the previous sentence)

It seems for paying $1000 you could pay a few hundred more and get the Pioneer
6 disc system.

-- Albert

ps: Run out of drive letters already? <grin>
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 22        Mon Apr 04, 1994
DMJ [dmj]                    at 20:42 EDT

Al,

If you add a CD-ROM drive, it will only take one drive letter, and I believe
you can use a letter from Q-Z as well as the C-P letters.

     ~dmj

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 23        Mon Apr 04, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 20:49 EDT

Tom,

Thanks. I'll check it out.

Nathan,

Nice to know I'm not the only guy here who's iggernuts.

All,

I think for right now I'll just get the drive and the 50-50 cable, and run it
off the Falcon. Maybe I'll get Link 2 later and stick it on the Mega STE. I'm
leaning toward an NEC 3XE. TOAD says it's portable, whatever that means.

Now, does anyone want to comment on ExtenDOS vs. the ICD software? I have ICD
Pro, and understand it can drive a CD-ROM player. If there are good reasons to
get ExtenDOS, I'll do that.

I'd like some expert advice, folks.

Ken


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 24        Mon Apr 04, 1994
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 21:23 EDT

Ken,

You should get ExtenDOS because:

1- You don't have the choice.

2- It's just great.

To explain further:  It's the only driver that works with a NEC 3x and a
Falcon.  It's fast.  It works with or without MultiTOS. And it's well
supported.  And there will be new versions.

The 3xe is larger and heavier than the 3xp, and is more expensive. The 3xp is
caddy-less. The 3xp accepts a rechargeable battery (converts in a portable
audio-CD player).  Both have audio controls, so they don't need audio software
or a computer to play audio.  The 3xe is faster (195ms vs 250ms).


Tintin
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 25        Mon Apr 04, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 22:13 EDT

Tintin,

Don't be so sure about #1.  Howard has been working on Falcon CDROM support
for SCSI Pro for a few months and it might ship with our next update. There
are just a few more important things that he he has been adding so I am not
sure when it will ship.

 - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 26        Tue Apr 05, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 02:12 EDT

Lee B. -

The printed stuff runs 60 pages, has 17 pages of font samples at 12 points.
Pages 19 through 56 are little itty bitty postage stamp sized renderings of
the IMG graphics on the ROM.  For most art you can tell what is happening, but
with some there may be a whole screen full of stuff (12, 15 maybe even more
seperate drawings) and that you can not "see" but each has a file name like
anamal, anamal01, anamal21, that at least gives you an idea what the little
blobs must be.  Considering the staggering number of clips on this ROM it was
very thoughtful to print out a catalog for quick viewing.

There is also a 40 page booklet called Qwikforms showing all the pre-made
forms you can load into pagestream.

On one ROM you got over 500 type 1 fonts for PGS, 230 Calamus fonts, 164 GDOS
fonts, over 6000 clip art, over 100 spreadsheet templates and 700 business
letters in ASCII format, not to mention a few programs.  As I have been
looking for something to make my CD ROM drive worth having, these new things
suddenly coming down the pike make me feel quite good about my purchase.

                                                   (:{ Grouch.

Al, as to the number of partitions a CD ROM will use, so far I have not found
them to take up more than one.  The Sterling Connection, The Atari GEMini, and
my photo CD's all present the whole 600 megs (or whatever) in one big ole
directory.  I don't know that they come partitioned.  (But then, I don't know
that they don't)
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 27        Tue Apr 05, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:15 EDT

Al,

        What DMJ says is correct.  A CD-ROM drive with the ExtenDOS software
will only take one drive letter and may use any letter C-Z.

Grouch,

        Thanks for the information.  At $44 it sounds like quite a deal.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 29        Tue Apr 05, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 21:28 EDT

Albert,

You need Aladdin. How come you're not using it? :-)

dmj and others,

Thanks. All those megs fit into one drive slot? Neat.

Al

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 30        Tue Apr 05, 1994
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 22:10 EDT

Tom,

I said ExtenDOS is the only driver working with the Falcon and the NEC 3x.  I
am _sure_ about that.  I own a Falcon and a 3xp.  I tried everything
available, so I am sure.  Your product is not out.  And with the performance
of ExtenDOS, I see no reason why someone should wait for your driver.   Still,
I am willing to beta-test it if you want.

How much is each update of SCSI Pro, by the way?  There seem to have an
infinite number of versions, all this seem confusing from a consumer point of
view.  Is there a charge for each update?  I bought a version of SCSI Pro last
year (in a bankruptcy sale), but didn't find any use for it yet.  What is the
list price of SCSI Pro now?


Tintin

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 31        Tue Apr 05, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 22:31 EDT

Tintin,

Thanks. Sounds like you covered it.

Tom,

I guess I don't have a choice for right now, though, do I?

Ken

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 32        Tue Apr 05, 1994
R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn]    at 23:11 EDT

Albert,

When multi-session becomes available, it will work via current ICD host
adapters as well as the Falcon/TT SCSI ports.

Al Fasoldt,
  ExtenDOS allows you to use letters A thru Z for CD-ROM.

Ken Van,
  Yes, I wrote ExtenDOS; it's available from various mail order places
including Toad & It's All Relative; it should even be available from your
friendly local dealer (if you have such).

Roger Burrows / Anodyne Software
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 33        Tue Apr 05, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 23:24 EDT

Ken and Tintin,

SCSI Pro Updates as well as all our other updates are $15 each.  Send in your
old master disks and $15 which includes return shipping.

Retail price on the SCSI Pro Utilities is $49.95 and has been since we
released it.

To be honest, I am not sure if Howard had released the Falcon compatibility or
not.  It could have been in the 6.4.3 version but somehow I doubt it. Probably
he will be adding it to the next release.

Roger has a very nice product and will probably always be way ahead of us on
CDROM support since that is his function (CDROM support).

I was just pointing out that there are or will be alternatives.

 - TOM -

PS  We will probably offering an update subscription service on GEnie in the
near future.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 34        Wed Apr 06, 1994
AEO.1 [Albert Dayes]         at 01:31 EDT

Al,

I always found Flash II interface very easy to use.  Just can't live without
it.

Roger,

That is great so we can have full Photo CD support on non Falcon and TT
computers.  YEA!!  Thanks again for your interview in AEO-PJ #4 too.

-- Albert
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 35        Wed Apr 06, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 07:47 EDT

Roger,

Yes, I'm fortunate enough to have a friendly local dealer, and he is going to
sell ExtendDos to me with the CD player in a couple of days, although he
seemed to think it should be around $23. (He doesn't have it yet, so the
invoice should clarify that.)

Tom,

I bought SCSI Pro around December or January (I think). As you know, I thought
I had to reformat my HD, and was waiting for DiamondBack III to do so, so
haven't used it yet. I'm about to do so, and hope it isn't already out of
date. Otherwise I would have waited to get it instead of paying for it plus
$15.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 36        Wed Apr 06, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 08:01 EDT

Ken Van,

This is software.  Whatever you buy is always out of date. :-)

Seriously, we could wait and release a new version once a year but I don't
hink people would be happy with that.

i.e.  We have just added CAF compatibility and 2 GB partitions on the Falcon.
Should we wait until January 95 to release this?

I think I know the answer. :-)

 - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 37        Wed Apr 06, 1994
PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!]         at 08:12 EDT

Tom,
 If you wait, I'll personally send someone to 'smack ya in da backada head'
for doing so.:)

Now when can I start telling all those CAF users to forget about  AHDI and
HDX? I know a few who would like to get ICD Pro when CAF support is ready.

--Kevin
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 38        Wed Apr 06, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 18:57 EDT

howard told me today that he is trying to get it ready for beta testing. I
think that means that I may see it this week (or I may not).

        - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 39        Wed Apr 06, 1994
DMJ [dmj]                    at 19:09 EDT

Al,

The entire CD-ROM, 680 megs worth, fits as one drive slot because it's not a
FAT partition.  It doesn't use the same disk format that TOS and DOS use.
*That* is why it takes more than a simple SCSI interface to make a CD-ROM
drive work on the Atari (i.e. ExtenDOS or the MultiTOS XFS driver), as these
drivers communicate with TOS at a higher level (GEMDOS) than your average hard
drive (BIOS).

     ~dmj

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 40        Wed Apr 06, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 22:14 EDT

Tom,

I hear you. :-) It's still a little irritating to have to pay $15 more to get
the latest when you think what you bought was the latest. That's life. The
same thing happens with FAX programs.

Of course, it's partly my fault for not using it right away to get the use out
of it when it was new. I wish I had known I didn't have to format with it. I
think I had to format with the HA in order to use it, and that's what gave me
the idea I had to with Pro.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 41        Thu Apr 07, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:37 EDT

Tom,

        What's CAF ?

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 42        Thu Apr 07, 1994
PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!]         at 07:52 EDT

CAF = Cubase Audio for Falcon

--Kevin
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 43        Thu Apr 07, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 10:50 EDT

KEn Van,

Well at least our upgrades don't cost $99 like most low cost PC software that
we are using. :-)  And then there is our CAD software that costs $1350 to
upgrade each year.

       - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 44        Thu Apr 07, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 19:36 EDT

Damien,

Thanks for explaining the way the CD-ROM file structure works.

Al
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 45        Thu Apr 07, 1994
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 21:41 EDT

Tom,

I am glad you are reconsidering the upgrade policy.  I am willing to pay only
if there are major differences.  I don't want to pay for each bug fix or for
something that the software should have been doing in the first place.  These
should come in form of downloadable files free to the user.

For me, the ICD pro utilities are a luxury.  The Atari utilities are FREE, the
upgrades are FREE, and they do the job for me.  Of course people who can
afford CAF can afford ICD pro, and all its upgrades.

To ICD's credit, the invention of the SCSI host adapter was a leap forward for
ST users.


Tintin
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 46        Thu Apr 07, 1994
GREG                         at 22:51 EDT

Be sure to dowmload file #32515 if you are interested in a $99.00 CD rom drive
for the Atari line.

The drive will not read Photo CD, but will work on any standard CD rom disc
like GEMini or the new Sterling disc.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 47        Fri Apr 08, 1994
R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH]         at 00:10 EDT

Does anyone have working software for playing Audio CDs on your CD-ROM drives.
I have tried two programs that I found in the libraries but couldn't get
either to work.  Are the commands for playing audio CDs not as standard as the
commands for accessing data?

Btw, Roger, have you had any luck in debugging the problem with ExtenDOS and
Geneva?  It's keeping me from having ExtenDOS installed except when I really
need it.  Sure would be nice access that CD full of files anytime I want
rather than having to reboot to turn on ExtenDOS <g>.  No pressure... just get
it done ASAP! :)

Thanks,
 Randy
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 48        Fri Apr 08, 1994
GREG                         at 01:33 EDT

Randy:

Watch for the mailman. An introductory offer on CD Audio Master was mailed to
you on Tuesday. You should have it by the weekend.

CD Audio Master will work on the Falcon, ST, STe, or TT and on the Falcon it
will allow you to pipe your CD audio into the audio in port. Using AFM, you
will be able to apply effects to your CD audio like dropping a tune down an
octave, add reverb, turn Billy Joel into a Cyborg, and more.

We've been having a lot of fun with it during the beta testing.

To All:

If you haven't bought one of our products recently, leave me e-mail and we
will get a copy of our spring 1994 newsletter out to you.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 49        Fri Apr 08, 1994
GREG                         at 01:56 EDT

Randy:

I missed your question in my previous post. The Falcon version of SCSII is not
the same as the code needed for the TT or ICD Link. That is why the audio
players you tried failed to work.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 50        Fri Apr 08, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 06:23 EDT

Tom,

It's not that bad. We want you guys to stay in business, and appreciate your
support.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 51        Fri Apr 08, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 10:55 EDT

Thanks Ken Van. :-)

We are trying.

  - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 52        Fri Apr 08, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 18:04 EDT

Kevin,

        Thanks for the CAF deffinition.  I guess to us non-falconers it's CAF,
CAF, HACK. <grin>

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 53        Fri Apr 08, 1994
R.MELON [Ron]                at 20:46 EDT

Tom I brought the ICD SCSI Pro Utilities and this did everything I wanted it
to. And more. I'am very pleased with it. It is registered with your company.
Keep Up the good work.
  How is the new Link II cable comming,for I am ready to get my CD Rom
running. I talked to Ray last week and he told me that he is waiting on the
new cable to test it out. I will call Ray next week.

                              KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
                                   Ron Melon
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 54        Fri Apr 08, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 21:50 EDT

Ron,

Thanks. :-)

Link II?

Oh "The Link 2" is coming out this month.  Watch for the press release in the
next AEO Online.

YOu did get it Travis?

 - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 55        Sat Apr 09, 1994
AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?]       at 01:43 EDT

Tom,

Yes I got it, or rather, my automatic "download GEnie FMail" downloader got
it. -I- didn't realize I had it until after I upload AEO_0306 last weekend.
With AEO_0307 coming out the weekend of the 23rd, that's going to be a long
wait. Should I upload the PR here, now?

Feeling like a great big dummy,

--Travis
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 56        Sat Apr 09, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 08:31 EDT

Tom,

        I've used ICD software for three or four years now and I love it.
It's transparent.  The highest praise one can give for operating system
software. <g>

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 57        Sat Apr 09, 1994
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 10:27 EDT

I think ICDs software has always been top notched right from the beginning.
Anyone remember Astra?
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 58        Sat Apr 09, 1994
MUSE [Tomas]                 at 12:48 EDT

Darlah,
 Astra?  You bet!  I have two of their widgets on my desk; a monitor switcher
and a MIDI through box.

 ===Tomas===

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 59        Sat Apr 09, 1994
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 14:32 EDT

We still have an Astra hard drive 20 meg that still works. Remember that he
used to throw them around and they still kept ticking. I bought one due to
that display. What can you do with a 20 though...
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 60        Sat Apr 09, 1994
J.DINGA [Jolly Jon]          at 16:07 EDT

      Can anyone tell me how to get the Sterling CD?  Thanks.  Jon
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 61        Sat Apr 09, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 17:46 EDT

Travis,

I think the 23rd will be OK.  A bit late but we won't be ready to ship volume
until the following week.

I may release it elsewhere earlier though.

 - TOM -

PS  Don't blame yourself.  I was late in getting it to you.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 62        Sat Apr 09, 1994
AEO.MAG [?] Travis [?]       at 19:05 EDT

Tom,

I had it in my DL folder in plenty of time to use it; "Ol' Bonehead" just
didn't look.

Thanks,

--Travis
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 63        Sat Apr 09, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 19:35 EDT

As long as we're praising ICD, I've enjoyed some good support from Howard. I
had a problem with being locked out of my hard drive, and over the phone he
walked me through getting back in. I've always had the utmost confidence in
their hard drive products I've used. (I hope to get SCSI Pro working on my
Falcon on Monday, now that I know what I have to do.)

I hope to pick up my CD player on Monday if it's in, with the GEMini disk.
I'll use it with the Falcon at the office, so will have to wait until Tuesday
to try it out.

Jon,

Sterling is at The Sterling Connection/Box 4850/Berkeley, CA 94704, (707) 823-
5500. The CD is $59.95 plus I think a little postage unless you're a previous
customer, but that special ends tomorrow.

Ken Van


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 64        Sat Apr 09, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 23:39 EDT

Lee,

And I've used ICD software and hardware for 12 or 13 years. Can't beat it. :-)

Darlah & Co.,

I have an Astra 8-bit drive that still sings. It's a quad drive, 720K.

Al
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 65        Sun Apr 10, 1994
GREG                         at 00:14 EDT

                        Space & Astronomy CD Disc

The Space and Astronomy CD is a collection of images and text files related to
space exploration and astronomy. Educators, students and space enthusiasts
will love this disc. The disc is made for the TOS, PC, and Mac platforms.

The 1,000 image files on the Space and Astronomy disc will dazzle your eye.
There are images of the earth, planets, the stars, astronauts, and space
craft. Most of these images are from NASA. You will see the soloar system from
the vantage point of deep space probes. You will see portraits of the space
shuttle crews and the hardware that makes the missions possible.

The 5,000 text files included will fill your mind with detailed accounts of
space missions and comprehensive data on space exploration. These files
include information on asteroids, NASA news bulletins, NASA press releases
since 1962 and Usenet sci.space archives.

The Space and Astronomy CD disc includes Atari graphic viewers including a
shareware version of DMJ-GIF along with viewers for the Mac and PC.

A special disk with additional shareware and freeware GIF viewers is included
with a special offer from It's All Relative Software. Get the Space and
Astronomy disc along with the bonus floppy for $35.00, postpaid.

Send your order to Randall Kopchak, It's All Relative, 2233 Keeven Lane,
Florissant MO 63031.

Voice (314) 831-9482

GEnie or Delphi: GREG

CIS 70357,2312
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 66        Sun Apr 10, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 09:49 EDT

Greg,

        Are all the graphics on the Space & Astronomy CD in GIF format ?

        Sounds like a great disk.  I'll have to wait a bit, but I'll probably
purchase one!

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 67        Sun Apr 10, 1994
D.OSBORNE4 [SYSOZ]           at 10:10 EDT


        Yes, I also have an Astra Monitor switcher, best switcher for monitors
I have ever seen.  I have it built into my tower case.  Not many switchers out
there, which also switch the power to the monitors also!

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 68        Sun Apr 10, 1994
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 10:15 EDT

Al:

Never bought Astra for my 8 bit systems. They do seem to last.....
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 69        Sun Apr 10, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 14:50 EDT

Best Buy has the Bookshelf CD ROM '94 version for $59.87 ("new lower price")
in their current flyer.

A catalog of electronic gadgets I get from DAK has several CDs. Some are
interactive and would not be useful to Atarians, but some seem not to be,
including The Bible Library, U.S. History, and NEC Image Folio. It looks as
though there might be applications to use the data, but I wonder if the data
might not be available outside of the applications, also.

Looking for stuff to run on the CD-ROM player.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 70        Sun Apr 10, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 15:26 EDT

Greg,

The Space and Astronomy CD disk sounds great! I wonder if any other science
stuff is available.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 71        Sun Apr 10, 1994
R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson]    at 18:21 EDT

   Yeah, Howard has been a life saver on quite a few occasions. This
 kind of support is what keeps me recommending ICD (other than their
 excellent software).

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 72        Sun Apr 10, 1994
P.PAULSON1                   at 19:50 EDT



       Can anyone tell me if Spectre gcr will support

    Mac cdroms? I am thinking of purchasing a $99 cdrom

    player for my Atari STE.

                       Thanks

                        Paul Paulson
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 73        Sun Apr 10, 1994
R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn]    at 19:52 EDT

RandyH,
  I believe I know what the problem is with Geneva & ExtenDOS, but it requires
some testing.  Without getting too technical, it was caused by an undocumented
feature of TOS.  I have a message in to the folks at Gribnif to verify that
what I'm thinking of doing will not suddenly stop working with the next
release of Geneva (although I don't think that's likely, I prefer to make
sure).

Roger Burrows / Anodyne Software
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 74        Sun Apr 10, 1994
R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH]         at 21:16 EDT

GREG,

Of course, the day after I posted the query about CD Audio I received your
flyer with just what I was looking for.  Everyone keeps saying the
ST/TT/Falcon market is dead; well my pocket book sure doesn't feel that way!
At least I can save the $10.00 cause I already own another program.  Should be
able to order it in a few weeks.

Thanks,
 RandyH
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 75        Sun Apr 10, 1994
R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH]         at 21:53 EDT

Roger, just saw your post after I sent my last post.  Great news on the Geneva
bug.  I won't have any problem waiting a bit longer just knowing that you have
it under control.  Thanks for your a great piece of software (soon to be even
greater!).

RandyH
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 76        Mon Apr 11, 1994
GREG                         at 00:44 EDT

The Space & Astronomy disc's graphics are in GIF format.

Ken:

We are sourcing some other CD's right now. If we get strong sales on the Space
and Astronomy CD, we will pursue others along this line too.

The disc comes with Atari viewers right on it and we are enclosing a floppy
with other shareware and PD players also for GIF viewing.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 77        Mon Apr 11, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 18:50 EDT

Whatta bummer! NEC has put my 3XP on backorder. I thought it might be here
today.

Tom,

I still have had no luck with SCSI PRO on the Falcon. After removing the Atari
something.SYS program, as Sheldon instructed me in the Falcon topic, I ran the
BOOT.PRG and then the HDUTIL.PRG, as you said to. Then, when I selected the
SETBOOT button the computer locked up. I then rebooted with SCSI PRO Disk 1 in
the floppy, so was able to get back into the hard drive, but I noticed that
Warp 9 had been disabled. I was aware of this because my mouse acceleration
was gone. Does the fact that I am able to get to the HDUTIL menu tell you
anything?

Everything seemed to function properly with the boot from floppy, but I would
prefer to boot from Drive C. I have version 3.8.0 (as I recall). Anyway the
last digit was a 0. Has there been an update or do I really have the latest
version? ;-)

Any help would be appreciated.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 78        Mon Apr 11, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 19:53 EDT

KEn Van,

What version?  That is important.

   - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 79        Mon Apr 11, 1994
SAM-RAPP [Sam_030]           at 23:46 EDT


 I know that everyone seems to like the Toshiba 3401 CD-ROM Drive.
 I noticed in the current issue of Computer Shopper a Toshiba 4101
 drive.  It is advertised as being the same as a 3401 except for
 the following:
                   330ms as opposed to 200ms
                   300kb/s as opposed to 330kb/s
                   Less than $250 dollars

 It is SCSI 2, double speed, an the price seems right.  Has anyone
 seen this drive or have more info?  Like Multi-session Photo-CD?

 Thanks!

 =================> Sam_030

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 80        Tue Apr 12, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 00:54 EDT

FRY's has CD ROM drives (internal) down to 199.00 now.  Double speed, photo CD
compatable, multi spin multi session.  Whole ball o wax.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 81        Tue Apr 12, 1994
P.PAULSON1                   at 02:58 EDT


    Can anyone tell me if Spectre gcr will support

    Mac cdroms? I am thinking of purchasing a $99 cdrom

    player for my Atari STE.

                       Thanks

                        Paul Paulson

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 82        Tue Apr 12, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 22:46 EDT

Tom,

I'll check it tomorrow and let you know tomorrow evening. I'm pretty sure it's
3.8.0, but my memory's not so hot. Today I tried to run the boot program so I
could use Cleanup, and that got as far as selecting which drive to clean up
and it locked up. Nothing seems to run beyond just starting up.

All,

That was the shortest backorder in history. The dealer left a message on my
machine at home that the CD-Player is in, so I can get it tomorrow. I assume
this is pretty much plug-n-play, with ExtenDos.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 83        Wed Apr 13, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 19:12 EDT

What's the mail order price on ExtenDos, including shipping from Canada? I got
my player today, and when I got home I discovered I paid $22.95 for ExtenDos.
Unless shipping is rather high, it seems I would have saved money by ordering
direct.

Tom,

I checked that version number for SCSI Pro, but got interrupted and neglected
to write it down. How does 6.0.8 sound? I'll see if I can remember to write it
down tomorrow, but here's what I remember, in case you can work with it. I'm
pretty sure it's right.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 84        Wed Apr 13, 1994
GREG                         at 22:19 EDT

Ken:

We sell ExtenDOS for $19.99 US, postpaid. The price may be going up in the
future though.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 85        Fri Apr 15, 1994
S.MCGEE2 [Sam]               at 00:09 EDT

R.BURROWS1,
     When using the GEMini disc the largest path table buffer I can used is
P=15. If it is increased any more I can't get past the root directory in the
disc. Other CD's can handle the maximum of P=32, any ideas? NEC 3xp users,
     Two out of six of my CD's cause a strange vibration when going through
directories, the worse case being the GEMini disc. The problem is intermittent
and continues even if I re-seat the CD. I think it may be more frequent under
heavy use when the spindle becomes quite warm. Does this sound like a problem
with the drive or the disks? Sam
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 86        Fri Apr 15, 1994
GREG                         at 01:11 EDT

Sam:

The GEMini disc is loaded with folders. It puts your system to the test.

We use P=12 here and it seems to work well with every disc I have used so far.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 87        Fri Apr 15, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 06:26 EDT

Tom,

The version is 6.0.8.

Ken
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 88        Fri Apr 15, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 18:34 EDT

The NEC 3XP comes with a 25 --> 50 pin cable, and the dealer didn't have a 50 -
-> 50 pin cable for the Falcon, so I haven't had a chance to try the player
out yet. In the meantime, I've been reading, and would like to verify some
settings. I understand the configuration switches should be 1 off, 2 on, 3
off, and 4 on, and that the SCSI ID switch should be 5 to match the setting
ExtenDOS calls for. Do I have that right?

Roger,

Are you still selling ExtenDOS for $19.95? Postpaid? I got it from my friendly
local dealer because it was convenient. My package was marked Sugg. Retail
$30, Discount $22.95. That sounds like a mistake, or has the price gone up?
Usually products are less with a dealer discount than direct from the
developer, not more. I wouldn't have minded no discount, and $3 isn't much,
but it's the principle.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 89        Fri Apr 15, 1994
R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn]    at 23:37 EDT

I have a question re ExtenDOS & MultiTOS.  Is anyone running it with MiNT 1.08
or later ? (I know it works with the standard Atari MiNT which is 1.04 I
believe).

Roger Burrows / Anodyne Software
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 90        Sat Apr 16, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 15:02 EDT

Roger Burrows,

Any idea why photo CD and Graphics CDs would begin to give me a "directory may
be damaged" message after viewing them several times with ExtenDOS?  I Don't
blame the program, just wondering how a CD directory can become corrupted.
This causes prophoto show to crash while doing a slide show on a disk that
used to be good.

(Much later)... Tried several other approaches.  MultiTOS does run the
photoshow program without a glitch, but very s..l..o..w..l..y, ExtenDOS is
very much quicker, however I do get occasional glitches on the image, lines of
pixells that are munged one time and not the next.

I have been having lots of trouble with PhotoShow pro and PROshow running with
extenDOS.  Does not seem to matter if I use version 1.1 right off my disk or
use the patched upgrade, the slide show keeps having the directory problems,
but as I said, multiTOS does not.

What realy puzzles me is last week everything worked together fine and I have
not changed anything.  I boot off my L partition when running extenDOS and
that autofolder has been untouched along with the root.  I tried putting in
all new stuff off disk for both extenDOS and PROshow, but still have problems.
Any ideas?

                                                       (:{ Grouch.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 91        Sat Apr 16, 1994
GREG                         at 17:06 EDT

Grouch:

Make sure both your discs and read head on the CD rom drive are clean.

I've found that ExtenDOS is more sensitive to dust and dirt on a disc than the
XFS drivers.

If the problems you are having are with "Corel" type discs, you may want to
asl Roger about it. With the XFS driver, "Corel" discs will leave a blank line
in your desktop directory Window. I just tried two "Corel" discs on my machine
and they both work well with the ExtenDOS and a NEC-38 as well as the XFS
using Photo Show Pro.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 92        Sun Apr 17, 1994
S.MCGEE2 [Sam]               at 01:12 EDT

NEC 3xp users,
     There is a bad batch of 3xp CD-ROM drives which may or may  not have
problems reading discs. The spindle is not firmly secure  and some amount(?)
of imperfection in the disc will cause a wobble. Depending on the disc, it may
work fine or the vibration may cause  further damage in the drive. So far it
looks like none of my discs  have been damaged by the wobble. To determine if
the drive is bad  try to wiggle the tip of the spindle. It must be secure to
the  dampening mechanism (i.e. only one part should move, not two). It was
probably a tiny batch but I'm an alarmist. Sam
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 93        Sun Apr 17, 1994
GREG                         at 02:23 EDT

Sam:

At triple speed, the disc really gains some momentum and force. I can imagine
what a "little" wobble sounds like.

We added a "STOP" spin function to Audio CD Master so you can stop a CD disc
before opening a top-loader like the 3xp. I know it sure will come in handy
with my top-loading NEC-38.

If you mail the GEMini back to Walnut Creek, they can test/replace it for you
if it is off balance.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 94        Sun Apr 17, 1994
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 15:17 EDT

Ken:

Yes you're right: off-on-off-on. The SCSI ID has to match the setting in
ExtenDOS.  It can be 1 to 7. I have mine at 1.


Tintin

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 95        Sun Apr 17, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 15:18 EDT

Greg,

No the problem is with KODAK photo CD not Corel.  And, of course, when I went
to demonstrate it to a friend after two days of constant crashing it suddenly
worked just fine.  Ran it again after he left and, yep, crashed again.

Cleaning the CD ROM drive sounds like a good idea.  How does one do that?  How
do you clean your discs when you are using a hard drive. Why would only
ExtenDOS mess up and not multiTOS?

At least the problem now appears to be intermittent so I know it is not
corrupted files, the dirty disc suggestion sounds like the next place to look.
Thanks.

                                                           (:{ Grouch.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 96        Sun Apr 17, 1994
M.POCHE [Mick]               at 15:30 EDT

There are products for CD's that claim to help balance the discs.

They are a little plastic ring that goes around the edge of the CD and can be
left on. I've read that there is no evidence that they make any difference on
audio CD's, but it would be worth investigating on a CD ROM I would think.
They're really cheap.

They should be available at just about any music store. It's worth a shot.

- Mick

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 97        Sun Apr 17, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 16:33 EDT

Sam,

Thanks for the tip.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 98        Sun Apr 17, 1994
D.FARRINGTO1 [David <><  .]  at 22:15 EDT

I have some questions about installation of CD ROM on an Atari MSTE. I have a
external hard drive that I use with my MSTE.  I have removed the internal hard
drive from the MSTE.  Do you think I can connect a CD ROM to the internal
Atari host and get it to work?

David <><
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 99        Sun Apr 17, 1994
W.FAANES [Bill]              at 23:44 EDT

Does anyone know of a program that will allow me to play audio CD's on  my
MSTe, ICD Link, and ExtenDos system??

Thanks,
        Bill

(I hate to boot up my PC just to use the Pro Audio Spectrum player!)
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 100       Mon Apr 18, 1994
M.POCHE [Mick]               at 03:11 EDT

Bill,

Check with Greg at It's All Realtive.

They have just what you're looking for.

- Mick

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 101       Mon Apr 18, 1994
MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp]        at 03:26 EDT

Bill,

"It's All Relative" (GREG on GEnie) has just released audio CD software.

 >Audio CD Master is available for $29.99 US, postpaid, worldwide, from
 >It's All Relative Software, 2233 Keeven Lane, Florissant MO 63031 USA.

I believe it does a lot more than just _play_ audio CDs.

        Mike Allen
        ST HelpDesk~Sysop

        Written: 1:01 AM Mountain Time
                 Monday, April 18, 1994

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 102       Mon Apr 18, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:14 EDT

David <><,

        You might be able to get a CD-ROM to work off the internal host
electrically, _BUT_, where would you mount the drive ?  The MSTE's internal
drive bay is too small for a CD-ROM drive (5-1/4" form factor).  If the
external drive cabinet has the room, a CD-ROM drive should be able to be
mounted "out there" assuming you have an ICD board there.

Bill,

        Greg Kopchak [GREG] of It's All Relative announced an audio CD player
just last week.  He should see your post here and reply with details.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 103       Mon Apr 18, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 06:30 EDT

Thanks, Tintin.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 104       Mon Apr 18, 1994
M.DRYSDALE [Drys]            at 06:55 EDT

Roger & Ken Van

 I mentioned the $19.95 price to the software buyer.  It seems that the
wholesale price is just below $19.95.  When a retailer adds a standard mark-
up, it would put the selling price over $19.95.  As a matter of fact, pricing
the package at $19.95 would barely cover shipping.

 Dealers should be able to sell for a profit in order to stay in business and
support Atari computers.  Maybe there are some products that should only be
sold by the programmer.

Mike, GenTech and POWER Computers

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 105       Mon Apr 18, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 09:16 EDT

Grouch,

You clean CDs with a mild solution of Ivory Liquid. (Yes, that's the way to do
it. Avoid the claptrap of the CD-cleaning solution crowd.)

Laser lens can be cleaned by a blast of air. There are cleaning CDs that try
to do this, but I've never been able to determine if they really work, and
I've tried many of them.

Al
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 106       Mon Apr 18, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 09:27 EDT

David,

YOu will need access to the full SCSI command set for a CDROM drive to work.
The internal host adapter from Atari does not support "full-SCSI". (10 bit
command length)

            - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 107       Mon Apr 18, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 21:52 EDT

Mike,

Usually a developer charges the MSRP, which may be discounted by the dealer,
because developers prefer not to undercut their dealers. I had planned to buy
from Roger, but when my dealer said he had the product I figured I would get
it from him. I mentioned when I ordered the CD-ROM player that I would want
the software and that it was going for $19.95 (when he said $22.95). I guess I
got the impression there was some confusion. I would have asked about it when
I picked up, except I didn't notice it until I got home. As I said, it's only
$3. Thanks for the clarification.

Now if that 50-50 cable arrives soon I can try out the player. I might not
have minded paying $3 extra for the software if I could have used the package
right away. :-(

I do want my local dealer to stay in business, and will give him a chance to
deal on purchases I make.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 108       Mon Apr 18, 1994
D.BRANKLEY [Duane]           at 22:04 EDT

Hello All...
  Some FYI...
   I have a 1040STe w/Tos 2.06 4 megs.. and a Seagate 227n (60meg)
  In the last few months I have bought the Studio File box with a 88meg
SYquest ... the at a PC show they were selling a Tobshia 3101 single session
drive for $129 and of course ExtenDos!! they All work fine!!!!! no problem!!!

  then I bought the GEMini Atari cd-rom and a Space cd-rom (both from walnut
creek) (the space cd-rom is meant for the Dos or Mac machines not the Atari
ST!... It works!! ;-)

 about a month later at another Dos show I found a dealer that was sell the
GEMini Atari CD-Rom disk for $15 (half of what I paid for it!!)
  When I find the address again I will post it... I did tell Nathian of ISD
(Calamus) though....

    Duane Brankley... Richmond, Va
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 109       Tue Apr 19, 1994
GREG                         at 00:22 EDT

Grouch:

For reasons unknown to me, ExtenDOS is more sensitive to dust and dirt than
the XFS drivers.

Mick:

At triple and quad speed the weighted rings may cause more problems than they
solve.

Bill:

It's All Relative has just released a CD audio player called Audio CD Master.
A product announcement should be available in the libraries here after
Tuesday.

David:

Check out ExtenDOS by Anodyne. Search the libraries here for uploader
R.BURROW1 and you will find a product information text on it.

Check out the Link or AdSCSI plus by ICD too.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 110       Tue Apr 19, 1994
D.FARRINGTO1 [David <><  .]  at 01:36 EDT

Koloth:

Thanks for the post.  I wanted to mount the CD ROM in that bay because I think
it will fit better than my other option.  I planned to use an internal drive
and cut the hole to fit, using stand-offs or whatever it took to mount it.
However, because of Tom's post I may not be able to do this.


Tom: You certainly did not tell me what I wanted to hear but it was what I
needed to hear.  Thank you. :)

Is there anything I can do with that Atari host adaptor?  Can I replace it
internally?

My other option is this:  I have a Burroughs hard drive case.  This case
houses two 5.25 full height drive bays, power supply w/fan, and an ICD AdSCSI-
Plus ST card.  In one of the bays I have has an older Seagate 5.25 full height
drive (600meg) in it.  The other bay has an ICD FAST tape back-up drive.  Do
you think an internal CD ROM could share the left over half of the 5.25 drive
bay?  Say a NEC 3Xi or Toshiba's 3401?

David <><
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 111       Tue Apr 19, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:15 EDT

Duane,

        Thanks for the information!

        David <><,

        If I understand the cabinet you have and if the tape drive and CD-ROM
drives you mentioned are half-height units it should work just fine.  You will
have to check out the cabling you have to make sure you've got enough
connectors and that they'll all reach.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 112       Tue Apr 19, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 07:48 EDT

David,

Honestly you can do all those things but I would just buy an external CDROm
unit that includes the case and plug The Link into it. That is why we designed
it.

 - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 113       Tue Apr 19, 1994
GREG                         at 21:20 EDT

The external CD rom unit is a good idea, Tom. You can switch from m achine to
machine with little hassle.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 114       Tue Apr 19, 1994
R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn]    at 23:45 EDT

Sam,
  Thank you for the report re GEMini and the P= parameter.  I had the same
problem reported to me earlier this week.  The problem shows up because the
GEMini CD-ROM has a path table greater than 15 sectors ... it's the first one
that I've encountered like that.  The bypass is to use P=15 or less.

Ken Van,
  The $22.95 price is a very fair price considering the markups through the
distribution chain.  At this time you could still get a copy from me at
$19.95, but you have to live with the inevitable delay for mail order, plus I
don't do credit cards.  I expect that, with future releases, you'll probably
get a better price from a dealer than from me.

Roger Burrows / Anodyne Software

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 115       Wed Apr 20, 1994
BBRADLEY [HOT DOG]           at 02:00 EDT

Greg,

I sent the payment for Audio CD the other day... Any chance of just having it
uploaded to my account here instead of having to wait for it to ship back??

Brad
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 116       Wed Apr 20, 1994
J.DINGA [Jolly Jon]          at 03:45 EDT

   In regards to useing an external box with a CDROM & TapeDrive: 1) can I
leave the AdScsi equipped box hooked to both a 386 & a Mega at the SAME time?
The DMA cable would have a proper switch box and the 386 would not be on when
the mega was. 2) would it be necessary to cut the power to the AdScsi when the
386 was acccessing the devices? 3) there are no plans to put a switch box on
the cable from the 386.
       thoughts,     ?        Jon
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 117       Wed Apr 20, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 07:36 EDT

Roger,

I'm cool. I think both prices are good. I just was surprised the dealer
charged more than the developer. I didn't expect to pay more, but had been
told when I said I needed it that the price would be $22.95. What really
irritated me was the regular price of $30 on the sticker with a markdown price
of $22.95.

Also, as I said, I was eager to try the thing out. It might have been worth $3
more to get going right away, instead of waiting for mail from Canada.  That
was my thought when I was quoted the higher price when I ordered the player
and ExtenDOS from the dealer.

Unfortunately, I got my player a week ago today, and still don't have the 50-
50 cable I need to use it. (He forgot that I didn't order the Link because I
was going to use it on the Falcon, so didn't know I needed the other cable.)
Since the cable was part of the package, I'll just have to wait. I would have
waited to pick up the player and GEMini disk had I known, instead of wasting a
trip.

Ken Van


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 118       Wed Apr 20, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 08:34 EDT

Jon,

It might work of you cut the power to the host adapter when the PC is
accessing the SCSI bus.  But this is not something that we have tested.

 - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 119       Wed Apr 20, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 19:00 EDT

Well, well. Today UPS brought my 50-50 cable. My dear, sweet, generous,
supportive dealer sent it to my house so I wouldn't have to make another trip.
It's only about six miles from work, but in the wrong direction and in heavy
traffic, so that was nice. (I know. Some of you guys 'n' gals would be happy
if you could get to a dealer in only six miles of heavy traffic.) Anyway, I
should be able to try this player out tomorrow. I hope that experience doesn't
raise too many questions.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 120       Thu Apr 21, 1994
GREG                         at 01:47 EDT

Hot Dog:

Your disk went out Monday, you should be listening to your CD rom drive
playing as your read this.

The Audio Fun Machine really works great with the Audio CD Master. Have you
tried it out yet?
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 121       Thu Apr 21, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 22:16 EDT

Al,

You never cease to amaze.  Do you a do a "Hints from Heloldt" column too?
Computer advice, life advice, Dr. Gizmo and now cleaning tips. About the only
thing I have not seen you post is a receipe and it's probably because I don't
visit that topic!

Anyway, thanks for the tip.  My question was more a "How do you get into the
CD player and find the thing you are susposed to clean" kind of a question,
but I guess I can figure it out.

                                                           (:{ Grouch.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 122       Fri Apr 22, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 06:44 EDT

Y'all will happy and maybe surprised to hear that my CD ROM drive worked right
from the start. Well, right after I discovered I had forgotten to plug the
cable into the computer. ;-) No problems.

Now I have to check into how to find things on it. I looked at the GEMini
disk, and it appears that everything is both ZIPped and normal format. I'll
have to study the DOCs a bit.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 123       Fri Apr 22, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 18:26 EDT

Grouch,

Well, actually I do a "Dr. Gizmo" column, and it's indeed a Hints from Heloise
for the electronically illiterate.

My favorite question was from a reader who heard voices coming from her radio
when it was not plugged in. The cops laughed, but *I* found the problem....

Al

:-)

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 124       Fri Apr 22, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 19:35 EDT

Ken Van,

        Congratulations!  Now about finding things on CD-ROM... <G>

Al,

        Reminds me of an appartment I had near the Interstate. Around 4:45
every day I'd get deafening conversations over my radio, my TV, heck,
practically the toaster.  I don't recall if it would do it when the power was
off, but I wouldn't doubt it.  I figure they caught the guy with the illegal
CB when his car melted... <g>

 Take Care,
 Lee B.


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 125       Fri Apr 22, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 23:02 EDT

Al,

I think you need a straight man here to ask what the problem with the radio
turned out to be.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 126       Sat Apr 23, 1994
C.MASSEY3 [Charlie]          at 04:32 EDT

  Anyone see Giraldo and his CyberSex show today?  WOW!  I might get a CD ROM
player now!!!!!

Dolly Partin's cousin has a CD.  The key command is TYCO.  'Take your clothes
off' ! <g>

There's more on those little disks than dictionary's...

Charlie

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 127       Sat Apr 23, 1994
PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!]         at 09:23 EDT

Koloth,
 Ya mean his car melted before he had a wreck from his brain melting? <G>

Al,
 You're in drag? Eeeeeww... Dirty old man indeed. :)

--Kevin

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 128       Sat Apr 23, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 14:00 EDT

Ken,

OK, you can be the straight man. :)

Ham radio operator in the apt. downstairs was causing so much RF interference
that her radio acted like a crystal set, not needing to be plugged in to
demodulate his sideband.

Al
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 129       Sat Apr 23, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 16:07 EDT

GREG,

Received my Audio CD Master yesterday and set it up according to package
directions.  Worked fine.  Today I thought I would lisiten to a CD as I
purused Aladdin...

Doesn't work.  Nothing changed from last night but where it was playing fine
now it don't.  Well, let me be a little more exact.  The program still turns
on the drive, the drive plays the CD but the sound does not go through the
Falcon.  I can listen on earphones, I can plug in to speakers but --- ?
Aggghhh, I forgot to configure the mike in/out switch.  Just a minute.....

Nope, that wasn't it.  Anyway if I use Musicom the CD sound blasts out of the
falcon as soon as I call the program up and stops short as soon as I exit the
program.  Other than that fiddling with control panel settings, speaker
on/off, and now the mute in/out all have no effect.  yet it was working fine
last night.

...ok, another test.  This time I tried running CD Master as a PRG from the
desktop.  Alert box sez "No RSC file" yet the RSC file is in the root dir.
right next to AUD_CD.PRG.  I also see a new file there, AUD_CD.INF.  What
would that be?  Only 27 bytes.

Mostly I am using the CD master through Multi-Desk so I am forced to
reconfigure each time I load.  I have been unsuccessful in saving out a RSC
file with my NEC 55 data in it.  What's going on there?

Last question, when I call up the desk accessory it blinks on and off a bunch
of times before it settles down and I can click the play button.  Is that
normal?

So, in review it looks like I have three main questions.

1.  What am I doing wrong, why wont the sound route through the falcon?

2.  Why can't I save the RSC file so I don't have to reconfigure each time I
use the ACC.  Is there a way to use it through MDX.

3.  Is the ACC suposed to blink on and off a bunch of times when you first
bring it up on the desk top?

But hey, it works.  I'm listening to Whitney Huston right now.  (And don't
tell me that's the problem, I tried other CD's as well)

                                                      (:{ Grouch.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 130       Sat Apr 23, 1994
GREG                         at 16:55 EDT

Grouch:

1. The "flashing" the first time you call the ACC is the program initializing
for your system. This is correct.

2. The .INF file is the configuration for your system. The .RSC file is the
high or low resource for your system. Both should be present in the folder or
root directory you are running the program or ACC from.

3. Some other program has rerouted your sound. I know Musicom knocks out the
digitized audio in some other programs. Some programs also "lock" the sound
system for their use and then forget to unlock it when they are done. Both
S.A.M. and Audio Fun Machine do this with certain combinations of settings.

If a program has locked your sound system, Audio CD Master can't turn on the
MIC port. It sounds like Musicom is not unlocking system sound or
disconnecting the speaker from the sound matrix on exit.

You may want to ask the publisher of Musicomm if they are releasing the sound
and restoring former settings on exit. Not restoring audio settings is the
audio equivalent of not restoring system colors or resolution on program exit.

I could be that the Falcon doesn't like Whitney Huston, have you tried Queen :-
>
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 131       Sat Apr 23, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 20:44 EDT

Charlie,

Whoopee! I'm happy with what's on the CDs I've bought.

Al,

Interesting story!

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 132       Sat Apr 23, 1994
D.BRANKLEY [Duane]           at 23:03 EDT

Ken...
  I have bought ExtenDos... You need the ICD Host adapter .... so you don't
need to have multidosor any multi tasking operating system or the Link either!
just the regular Host....I use the AdScsi + with that latest host software...

   ExtenDos loads in a Driver that makes the computer think that it is another
Removable drive... I have no problems with it and have used IBM CD's and read
them...
  I wish to thank the author very Greatly for such fine software!!!

    Duane Brankley... Richmond, Va

PS...
   I have a Tobisha 3101b (a single session CD Rom) and a 1040 STe w/ 4 megs
and TOS 2.06

Koloth..
  I the Space and Astronomy CD... I love it ...I am a Huge Space nut!! It
works great!!!

Ken...
  Yes, I have seen several other Space cd's!!!
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 133       Sun Apr 24, 1994
GREG                         at 00:22 EDT

Grouch:

We checked and found out the Falcon does not like Whitney Huston.

Actually, I made a few phone calls and I think it may be Musicom that is
changing the sound matrix on you. Keep me posted on what you find.

You may also want to drop MIC_ON.PRG in your AUTO folder. The Falcon default
at boot-up is mic port off. If the sound matrix gets locked, a reboot will
clear it.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 134       Sun Apr 24, 1994
J.DINGA [Jolly Jon]          at 01:38 EDT

      Roger,
       Would you post the exact format needed in the .CNF for ExtenDOS? I
realize the manual has examples on what _not_ to do, but I STill have a
problem. Also, where do you get table info on each disc?  Thanks!
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 135       Sun Apr 24, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 08:34 EDT

Duane,

        Thanks for the mini-revue of the Space CD.  I'm saving my pennies...
<g>

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 136       Sun Apr 24, 1994
K.LORD                       at 08:56 EDT

Hi everyone,
   I've bought ExtenDos and am having a problem you might be able to help me
with.  The program works great except when I use NeoDesk. If I try to use my
CDROM with NeoDesk running I keep getting a dialog box that says something
like "device doesn't exist  TOS error#-15". I can clear the dialog box and the
CD directory appears correct, but the dialog keeps coming back every time I
access the CD.  I also get a dialog that says "media change TOS error#-14"
whenever I press the ESC key to redisplay a directory window.  I get this
message even with one CD in the drive all the time.
   Anyone else having this problem?  I have an ST with TOS 1.4, ExtenDos 1.11,
Neodesk 3.01 and a Toshiba XM-3101 CD-ROM drive. Any help would be
appreciated.

Thanks Keith
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 137       Sun Apr 24, 1994
C.LABELLE [Tintin]           at 20:59 EDT

Keith,

In Neodesk, go under Set preferences, and there is a box that says "Check for
executables files" or something like that. Unmark it.


Tintin
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 138       Sun Apr 24, 1994
K.LORD                       at 21:31 EDT

TinTin,
   I found two options in the Neodesk "Set preferences" menu that looked
promising.  I turned both "Status Displays" and "Report Status #'s" off, but
still got the error dialogs when I accessed a CD.  I thought you had it.  I'll
have to dig out my manual and find out what those options do.  Any other
ideas?  Are you running Neodesk and ExtenDos together?

Keith
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 139       Sun Apr 24, 1994
R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH]         at 21:54 EDT

Kieth,

I had the same problem with ExtenDOS and NeoDesk when I started. Here's what
to do: From NeoDesk OPTIONS menu choose SET PREFERENCES, then MORE..., then
deselect the button for CHECK FOR EXECUTABLE BOOTSECTOR.  This should
eliminate both errors you are seeing.

RandyH
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 140       Sun Apr 24, 1994
GREG                         at 22:06 EDT

Randy:

Thanks for the tip on NeoDesk. I don't have it so I couldn't answer.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 141       Sun Apr 24, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 23:11 EDT

Greg,

OK, OK, So I RTFM and I did miss a few things.  Installed the Microphone On
prg. in my auto folder and installed the INF file in the MDX directory.
Things are working better now.  Also got it to run as a stand alone program
however--

(Don't you hate those howevers and buts)

But here is the problem.  Not only does the control panel for Audio master
blink a bunch of times when I initiate the CD play, but it does not keep track
of tracks.  None of the counters move and when I try fast forward it resets
the ROM back to the beginning.  I have no ability to skip ahead.  Have not
tried programming yet, but the way the tracks are working I have a feeling
that will not function either.

I am using a NEC 55 with direct SCSI to my Falcon.       (:{ Grouch.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 142       Sun Apr 24, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 23:47 EDT

Greg,

A little Aladdin Lag on my last post, but you get the idea. Microphone On did
help quite a bit.  Now I understanding the flashing is ok, but the trackless
tracks are still a bit puzzling.  Why do you have two sets of counters there
if neither one of them counts anything and why can't I skip ahead a track
using fast forward?

All of this testing is done at once on booting up so no other program is
taking control of my system.  My auto folder is kind of loaded however.  Just
take a peek:  BMAPFIX2       Codekeys    Datalite
 FAST_SER    MACCEL34    MIC_ON    OBURST    SBLASTER    SPDGDOS
 SPEAKOFF    UIS_III

I did try running a clean system with just UIS_III and FAST_SER loaded,
results were the same except that pesky internal speaker blarred at me full
volume.  Some day I'm going in there with a pair of wire snips!
                                                          (:{ Grouch.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 143       Mon Apr 25, 1994
S.DEITZ [Steve]              at 04:41 EDT

Keith,

     NeoDesk has option "check boot sector" or something similar under
Preferences/More. Disable it and it work fine.

                    ----STEVE----

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 144       Mon Apr 25, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 06:23 EDT

Duane,

It works fine for me on the Falcon. Thanks.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 145       Mon Apr 25, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:49 EDT

Grouch,

        I noticed on the GEMini CD-ROM a program to turn off the Internal
speaker on a Falcon.  You might consider it instead of the wire snips. <grin>

        Also if you want to format a message on GEnie, like your AUTO folder
list, put a space at the beginning of each line and GEnie will not format
those lines.

        On the track displays, the left one is a track number and the right
one is a time display.  Unfortunately many drives are not standardized on how
they send this information and how you request it from the computer side.
Greg's actively working on this problem for several of the drives.  Just
knowing which drives have these problems helps him toward fixing it.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 146       Mon Apr 25, 1994
J.HICKEY6                    at 10:29 EDT

NCA in Sunnyvale, CA has CD-ROM drives on sale(good til 4/26) as follows:

SONY Double Speed(33A-internal) $149

TEAC CD-50 Dual Speed (Internal, PCD multisession) $245

Toshiba 3401B(internal 200ms/330KB) $288

Fry's has a Mitsumi(internal, 250ms/350KB) $139

Access has a Philips HDP205 for $89.

Does anyone have experience with these drives?

Jack
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 147       Mon Apr 25, 1994
DMJ [dmj]                    at 19:04 EDT

Keith,

I think it was "check for executable boot sectors".  Make sure you turn that
option off, since a CD-ROM doesn't exactly have a bootsector that NeoDesk can
check.

Now I remember someone else reporting this problem, and changing this option
in NeoDesk fixed it for them.

     ~dmj

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 148       Mon Apr 25, 1994
R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn]    at 20:19 EDT

Grouch,
  I'd like to track down this problem if you can spare some time. TRACE.TTP on
the distribution diskette is designed to help in this kind of remote
debugging.  To use TRACE:

1. Ensure that you have the T= parameter specified in the *BOS line
   in EXTENDOS.CNF.  A value of T=100 should be lots!  If it's not
   there, change EXTENDOS.CNF, save, and reboot to have it take
   effect.

2. Recreate the problem.

3. Double-click on TRACE.TTP and in the dialog box, enter two
   parameters (separated by one or more spaces):
       <physical drive>   <trace filename>
   where <physical drive> is the drive letter used in the *BOS line
         <trace filename> is the name of the file which will contain
                             a copy of the internal trace.

4. Email me the trace file.

Everyone,
  This is how TRACE _currently_ works.  If you're curious about it, feel free
to run it ... it can't harm your CD!  As a debugging tool, it is subject to
change, so it's not guaranteed to work this way on subsequent releases.  Also,
although the output means something to me, it's not meant to be very useful to
anyone else.

Roger Burrows / Anodyne Software
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 149       Mon Apr 25, 1994
GREG                         at 21:52 EDT

Grouch:

Do you have the NEC.DAT installed as your default? Click on the "track" button
and try playing a range of tracks like 2 to 4. See if the FF and REV buttons
then work. With your drive you may also want to try the "use internal SCSI"
button in the tracks box.

Do you have another SCSI device on your system besides the CD player?
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 150       Mon Apr 25, 1994
J.HICKEY6                    at 23:08 EDT

There is a simple mod to make the ST parallel port "bi-directional". I did it
on my MEGA-ST4 to run an Epson ES300C color Scanner.  I can dig it up if
anyone is interested.

Jack
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 151       Mon Apr 25, 1994
R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn]    at 23:10 EDT

J.DINGA,
  The simplest thing is to take the sample EXTENDOS.CNF file as a basis for
whatever you're trying to do.  Rather than me try to describe all the possible
options (and probably make a mistake!), why don't you tell me:

 . what SCSI address is your drive
 . what logical drive letter do you want to assign to it
 . which folder you've put the CD.BOS & UNIDRIVE.DOS in

and I'll post the statements you need in your EXTENDOS.CNF.  You can send me
GEmail or post here. Also, can you explain what you mean by "get table info on
each disc" ?

K.LORD,
  Other people have already explained how to circumvent the problem you're
experiencing with ExtenDOS & NeoDesk.  I'll be talking to Gribnif to see if I
can change something in ExtenDOS to fix this.

J.HICKEY6,
  The Toshiba 3401 is a great drive.  Even though it's only double speed (well
actually 2.2x), it has a low seek time which makes it comparable in
performance to many triple-spin.


Roger Burrows / Anodyne Software

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 152       Mon Apr 25, 1994
R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn]    at 23:43 EDT

Important notice re ExtenDOS pricing ------------------------------------

Effective immediately, the suggested retail price for ExtenDOS is $29.95.
This will apply to both the current version and the next version (which will
include multisession photoCD support).  You'll be able to order direct from me
at this price (which includes shipping in North America); Ontario residents
please add 8% PST. As always, dealers may choose to sell at a lower price.

Roger Burrows / Anodyne Software
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 153       Tue Apr 26, 1994
R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob]      at 04:22 EDT

I just threw a Texel double-speed, multi-session XA compatible drive into a
case and it works fine-kinda-sorta.  Greg already gave me some advice on
getting Photo-show to run on a Falcon (remove NVDI :-( fix-in-progress) but
I've yet to test that setup (the Falcon is a store demo).

I just bought ExtenDOS and it seems to work just fine; the CD hasn't hiccupped
since ExtenDOS was installed.  But of course, there is a problem...

I can lasso and copy small files, and individually copy large files, but if I
try to lasso-copy large files to the HDD the CD-ROM will do the first, then it
appears to read r-e-a-l l-o-n-g then the hard drive comes on and --- stays on,
system lockup.  Any suggestions?

(aside from copying large files individually...  ;-) )

BTW, using a somewhat early version of ICD Pro utilities...

Buffalo Bob

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 154       Tue Apr 26, 1994
J.DINGA [Jolly Jon]          at 20:02 EDT

    Jack,
     Why didnt you post that LAST week? I just bought an old Cannon FlatBed &
have aNavaronne Interface comeing scanner......I WANT......anyway! That
scanner, where did you get software to run it, and how well to support it on
the TOS?.....Jolly
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 155       Tue Apr 26, 1994
BBRADLEY [HOT DOG]           at 21:20 EDT

J.HICKEY6

I'd like to know the parallel mode!

Brad
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 156       Wed Apr 27, 1994
DMJ [dmj]                    at 00:24 EDT

Roger,

You could effectively turn off the bootsector check by trapping the BIOS
hdv_rw vector; if sector zero is accessed, you could simply supply a phony
bootsector that is not executable.

Then nobody would have to worry if they use NeoDesk's bootsector check or not.

     ~dmj

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 157       Wed Apr 27, 1994
J.HICKEY6                    at 08:28 EDT

Brad, here's a copy of an old message I posted.

On an Epson ES 300C scanner which I borrowed, I used the parallel port of my
MEGA ST4. Pin 17 of that connector is labeled DIR(direction?). It was not
connected in my unit. The YAMAHA sound chip on the motherboard feeds the
parallel port. Connecting pin 14 of that chip to pin 17 of the parallel port
creates the bi-directionality necessary to communicate with the scanner using
a normal(IBM?) parallel printer cable. I installed this jumper(it's buried on
the underside of the mother board) and the scanner worked fine.  Proceed at
your own RISK!(or better yet, let your dealer do it)

Jolly, I didn't buy it.  I asked in my post(in Category 5) if there were any
ST/TT/Falcon drivers available for the AVEC scanner by Relisys. Whoops!  After
re-reading my posts, I see that you must have been responding to my Epson ES
300C post in this Category.  In that case, GT-SCAN is the software I used.

Jack


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 158       Wed Apr 27, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 10:08 EDT

Buffalo Bobv,

Try the latest version 6.5.3 of the SCSI Pro software.

     - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 159       Wed Apr 27, 1994
PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!]         at 10:09 EDT

Jack,
 So what Atari software allowed you to use the BiDirectional (modified)
printer port on your ST with a scanner? Were you using an IBM emulator?

--Kevin
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 160       Wed Apr 27, 1994
G.ZEPKA1 [Greg]              at 20:50 EDT

Jack,
   I would like to see the mod to make the ST parallel Bi-directional. I have
a mega, but would like to try it on a STE. Greg

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 161       Wed Apr 27, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 21:21 EDT

Koloth,

Speakoff.prg in my auto folder does disable the internal speaker on a Falcon
UNTIL you print something.  Then thats all she wrote boys, the speaker be
blaring again.  As for using a space to make GEnie obey your format instead of
insisting on hers, I did.  Sometimes GEnie gets her way no matter what we do.

thank you for the information on the track display.  I was not sure what was
going on there.

my last unanswered question then is why Fast Forward does not seem to
function.  I still have not got around to trying to program the sequence of
tracks played, but the lack of a counter and no fast forward were discouraging
on the possibility of that aspect being functional.

The main thing is, of course, that it do play a CD and that it do. So are I
happy?  Indeedy do.  All the rest is window dressing and bug fixes that will
get cleaned up over time.  I say it was a great effort and I am happy to have
access to my audio CDs.

                                                    (:{ Grouch.

Roger,

I will use the trace on the EXTENDOS as soon as possible.  This is the problem
with EXTENDOS being unable to read a directory when showing photo CD in the
new extra fast PhotoshowPRO mode, correct? It was crashing on picture 5 but
reading it ok in the view pcd program and MULTITOS was also reading it
correctly.

I was going to clean my drive as this was the advice from AL FASTOLDT.  If
that fixes the problem I'll let you know and we wont need to run the trace
program.

GREG -

>Do you have another SCSI device on your system besides the CD player?<

Yes, ID 0 and 1 are hard drives, 2 is CD ROM DRIVE, 3 is SYQUEST removeable,
usually turned off and not of concern and 4 is Floptical, also generally off
line.

Why do you ask, got something else I can hook into the chain?  I have been
kinda hankering after a full page color scanner.  They are down to 579.00
brand spanking new.

>Do you have the NEC.DAT installed as your default?<

Yes, I do.  I tried going to the "track" menu and setting 3-5 as a range.  FF
and REV still just default to the first track on the disk, can't seem to skip
ahead.  Tested it with the "use built in SCSI" button pushed in and poped out.
No help there.  I think I already told you this is a NEC 55 and tests out as
such during the cfg. process.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 162       Thu Apr 28, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:03 EDT

Grouch,

        Apparently the NEC 55 isn't as similar to the NEC.DAT file as we'd
like it to be. <g>  I'm pretty sure GREG is working on this.

        GEnie is a harsh mistress. <g>

 Take Care,
 Koloth

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 163       Thu Apr 28, 1994
J.HICKEY6                    at 08:18 EDT

Kevin, I was not using an emulator, just TOS 1.04. on my MEGA ST4. Actually,
there were two programs that operated the scanner from the parallel port,
Sherlook(an OCR program) and GT Scan.  Don't know if they are available
anymore.(try 3K ComputerBild in Germany)

Jack

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 164       Thu Apr 28, 1994
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 08:44 EDT

Grouch.....

You can also save with *SN
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 165       Fri Apr 29, 1994
K.LORD                       at 21:42 EDT

Thanks for everyones suggestions regarding my troubles with ExtenDos and
Neodesk.  Unfortunately, there's no "more.." button in the Set Preferences
dialog in my version of Neodesk.  Can't find the button to disable "Check for
Executable Bootsector" as RandyH suggested.

I used the patch program here on GEnie to upgrade my 3.01 version to 3.02, but
still no Set Preferences/More... button. Thanks for the help, but it looks
like I'm out of luck.

Keith
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 166       Sat Apr 30, 1994
W.ORTIZ [Will]               at 09:38 EDT

  Jack (J.HICKEY6),

   Hi!  Could you EMAIL me that mod you mentioned for the Bi-Directional
parallel port.  I'd like to read it and see if it's possible for an ATARI 1040
STe.  Just for curiosity.  Thanks!


                                      Will
                                      W.ORTIZ


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 167       Sat Apr 30, 1994
H.SCHEIE [HALS]              at 09:53 EDT

Jack, Would that be the same on a MSTE? HAL

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 168       Sat Apr 30, 1994
BBRADLEY [HOT DOG]           at 11:33 EDT

What is GT Scan?? What will it do image wise (TIF, IMG, GIF)???

What model of scanners will it run on?
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 169       Sat Apr 30, 1994
DMJ [dmj]                    at 14:59 EDT

Keith,

The "Check executable bootsector" option appeared in NeoDesk 3.03, along with
some other highly useful functions.  I thought there was a patch to 3.03 in
the library, maybe I'm mistaken.

     ~dmj

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 170       Sat Apr 30, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 16:45 EDT

Koloth,

Interesting message to me, as Greg has already told me the NEC 55 ought to
work great and it must be a problem in my particular set up, perhaps the SCSI
chain not returning proper data.  I have already noted a failure of my SCSI
plug to delilver +5 volts to a LINK adaptor so it is possible that there are
other glitches on the system.

Also interesting that you should refer to GEnie as a "she" which I have taken
to doing of late.  If we conducted a survey I wonder how many people would
describe this board in gender specific terms? <G>

                                                           (:{ Grouch.

Darlah,  What would we do without you?  Thanks for the input.  I sort of knew
that, but when I go to save a message through Aladdin I don't know how to use
*SN.  Do I just tag it to the end of my message or does it not work that way
if you are working through Aladdin?

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 171       Sat Apr 30, 1994
A.PETRIE1 [Suzie/AL]         at 17:24 EDT

Keith: Bring your problems to the next Users group meeting, I  believe Ihave
the upgrade files you will need to reach 3.03. both my 3,03 and 3.04 versions
have a more option nah nah nah 8^)

Al P
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 172       Sat Apr 30, 1994
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 17:34 EDT

Grouch:

Actually Aladdin is supposed to work where you don't need to type *SN It is
only when you use another method that formatting usually come into play.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 173       Sat Apr 30, 1994
BBRADLEY [HOT DOG]           at 19:13 EDT

My NEC 25 has the same problem... no functions except play.  No track read
out.  Maybe we should compare setups, Grouch??
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 174       Sun May 01, 1994
GREG                         at 00:13 EDT

BBRADLEY:

The NEC 25 is slightly non-standard. We are doing a special NEC 25 version and
will let you know when it is ready and I am adding your name to our "send to..
" list for it.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 175       Sun May 01, 1994
GREG                         at 00:24 EDT

Watch here tomorrow for our "May CD of the Month". It's a super graphics disc
with Atari viewers right on the CD.

Would have had the text ready tonight, but I spent too much time today viewing
a few of the 2,000 plus images on the disc.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 176       Sun May 01, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 08:42 EDT

Grouch,

        Well I'd believe Greg on these points before I'd believe me. <grin>

        I'm not sure what you mean by "failure of my SCSI plug to deliver +5
volts to a LINK".  Is the SCSI on the NEC 55 side ?  I would have (perhaps
wrongly) that it would get that from the Atari ACSI side.

        Most men refer to inanimate objects as she, ships, aircraft, etc.

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 177       Sun May 01, 1994
K.LORD                       at 10:21 EDT

Well, I finally found the patch program to upgrade my version 3.02 Neodesk to
version 3.03.  The patch went smoothly and now Neodesk and ExtenDos get along.
Thanks for everyones help.

Al, if you had posted your note a day earlier I would have taken you up on
your offer.  I found the patch file yesterady. So, nah, nah, nah...

Keith
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 178       Sun May 01, 1994
ICDINC [Tom]                 at 11:50 EDT

Lee B.,

There isn't any power available on the ACSI side.  The Link, the AdSCSI Micro
ST, and The Link 2 all draw their operating power from the SCSI side...
specifically pin 26 (on the drive mechanism connector) which is the
termination power line.  Power is available there usually for external
termination devices.  It isn't much but then we don't need much power.

 - TOM -
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 179       Sun May 01, 1994
GREG                         at 21:34 EDT

                          Fractal Frenzy

                       The Ultimate Fractals CD

The Fractal Frenzy CD rom contains the definitive collection of Lee Skinner's
fractal art work.

You'll find over 2,000 fractal images on the Fractal Frenzy disc. If you
viewed one image every 20 seconds, it would take you over 11 hours just to
browse through the disc. If you tried storing these images on DS/DD floppy
disks, it would take over 800 disks to store the images.

The disc contains examples of all the major fractal type: Mandelbrot, Zexpe,
Barnsley, fn(z), and more.

You get all the images on the disc in 640 by 480 by 256 color GIF format,
perfect for viewing on the St, STe, Mega, TT or Falcon computers. For ST and
STe users, a shareware version DMJ-GIF is included on the CD to allow you view
these fractal images in Spectrum mode with their full colors.

The 640 by 480 images are all royalty free.

All fractals are also stores as high resolution images in 1024 by 768 by 256
colors for those with special graphics cards.

An index file contains comments on the images and the formula used to create
each image. Fractal lovers will be kept busy for weeks.

The Fractal Frenzy disc has a folder of shareware viewers for the Atari line.
It's All Relative will be including a collection of additional shareware
viewers on an extra floppy disk at no additional charge.

Fractal Frenzy can be ordered from  Randall Kopchak, It's All Relative
Software, 2233 Keeven Lane, Florissant MO 63031 USA for $29.99, postpaid
worldwide. Payment in US funds please.

It's All Relative
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 180       Mon May 02, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 00:48 EDT

Darlah,

>Actually Aladdin is supposed to work where you don't need to type *SN<

Oh great.  First I thought I understood how to format text by using a leading
space, then I thought I understood how to format text by using *SN but I
didn't understand how to do that in Aladdin, now I'm to understand Aladdin is
suposed to format my text for me?

I am getting confused.  So ... I shouldn't be using a leading space in Aladdin
if I want my text sent the way I have it on my screen?

(Where is Al and his "Secrets of Typing Text")   <G>
                                                         (:{ Grouch.

[HOT DOG],

How should we compare setups?  I have the NEC 55 in a tower case off to the
side of the desk.  It is ID 2 and is on the SCSI chain after two hard drives
and before a syquest and a floptical, only the later two usually are not
powered up so realy the NEC is last in the chain except for sometimes.

I have usually partitions C - L active, but if the syquest is on there will
also be M,N,O and the NEC is P allways.  Now as to auto folder programs, I
have partitions C - L all set to be booters different ways with ICD pro.  I
can boot with a full boat or a bare system but no mater how I boot I have the
track no work problem.

Because I have tested the player with several different auto folder configs
and with being last and second to last in the chain I feel that I have not a
problem in the way I set up, I mean, I set it up a lot of different ways and
it works the same.

Greg told me I was perhaps not getting my Q-data back properly.  As far as I
concerned he could have told me my Fleebish didn't interface with the flanger
properly.  It would have ment as much.

Good luck on tracking this one down, hey.


Koloth,

Good point on the LINK.  You are right, the power should be coming out of the
ST.  Why then will the LINK work connected to an external hard drive, but not
when connected to the internal drives in my tower case?  If I connect stright
to my floptical the LINK works, if I connect to the chain through the tower
case the Falcon sees the floptical, but the ST on a LINK does not.

Well, this is not the topic for that, excuse me Sysops.  I'll take it
elsewhere if I ever figure out a coherent way to ask the question.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 181       Mon May 02, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:38 EDT

Tom,

        Thanks for the info.  Ya learn something every day.

Grouch,

        I'm wondering if the Floptical still provides SCSI termination when
it's turned off.  Surely it would.  Sounds like we may have to start
diagraming this puppy as it's certainly the most complex ST arrangement I've
ever heard of. <grin>


 Take Care,
 Lee B.


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 182       Mon May 02, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 06:57 EDT

Thanks, Greg. A feast for CDII owners!

Grouch,

Ouch! I'm still working on Secrets of the Coleco Adam!

(Yes, the leading space works fine in Aladdin.)

Al

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 183       Mon May 02, 1994
DARLAH [RT~SYSOP]            at 08:16 EDT

I was told that Aladdin is supposed to work this way but on further
investigation (my own), I found out it does NOT. So Sorry....
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 184       Mon May 02, 1994
L.BUDNICK [Lorne]            at 21:23 EDT

Here is a DUMB question for you!

Just what to people use 'fractals' for???? This is a serious question BTW. I
viewed them and they are in fact interesting, but what do people generally use
them for??

Thanks,

Lorne....

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 185       Mon May 02, 1994
GREG                         at 21:50 EDT

Lorne:

Fractal art and the study of the math that creates them holds a  fascination
for many people.

You can use them in DTP and video work.

They also just plain look good :->
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 186       Mon May 02, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 22:29 EDT

Lee,

SCSI termination does not require that the unit remain on.

Al
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 187       Mon May 02, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 23:24 EDT

Lorne,

As Greg points out, fractals are used in DTP and so on. But mostly, they are
just plain beautiful. If you can view Spectrums, you might download some of
the Spectrum 512 fractals I uploaded some time back. They are beeeeyoootiful.

Any good library will have some excellent books on fractals and fractal
theory. It's fascinating, and if you are at all interested in scientific
theory you would find fractals very much worth looking into.

Al
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 188       Mon May 02, 1994
K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT]         at 23:26 EDT

Fractal stands for Fractional Dimension.  Instead of the old worldview where
there were integer dimensions fractals describe a world of "real" dimensions.
A "point" is dimensionless. A line has one dimension. A plane has two, and a
solid has three. That's integer dimensions.

How then do you describe a crooked line or a rumpled plane. The line is not
quite a line and it's not a plane. Well, it can be described a dimension
that's greater than 1 and less than 2.
 1 > d < 2

The world conforms to fractal geometry.  If you want to read a easy book on
the subject read CHAOS by James Gleik.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 189       Mon May 02, 1994
DMJ [dmj]                    at 23:40 EDT

Lorne,

As Greg said, there are two main uses for fractals:

 1. Serious graphic art, be it screen art or print art, can use
    fractal designs.  You'll see fractal images show up in some
    of the most unlikely places.

 2. Simple enjoyment.  Many people like to look at fractals just
    because they're pretty.

The bizarre thing about fractals is that all the complexity comes out of
usually a very simple equation.  For example, the Mandelbrot set-- often
called the most complex mathematical object we can see--is created from one
simple equation:

  z <- z*z + c

That's it.  Generating Mandelbrot pictures requires nothing more complicated
than addition, subtraction, and multiplication.  (You just have to do millions
of those. ;-)  I could go on and on about fractals, since my main use of them
is number 2 above, but I'll skip the details and spare everyone the math
lesson. <g>

We have the Fractal Frenzy disc here, and the images are breathtaking.  The
high-resolution versions are particularly nice.

     ~dmj

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 190       Tue May 03, 1994
SAM-RAPP [Sam_030]           at 02:09 EDT


 The most recent USA*FLEX ad lists the following:

      Toshiba XM4101 CD-Rom drive
        Slender 1" high design
        320ms average access
        300KB/s sustained transfer rate
        Drawer type load and eject
        SCSI-2 Interface
        Multi-session Kodak Photo CD and MPC 2 compliant
        $209.00


 The price sounds real good, as do the specs.  Has anyone seen
 this drive, or know of its potential Falcon030 compatibility?
 Any response appreciated!


         ================> Sam_030


 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 191       Tue May 03, 1994
L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth]        at 06:13 EDT

Al,

        I thought that was the case, but you never know...

 Take Care,
 Lee B.

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 192       Tue May 03, 1994
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 08:49 EDT

dmj,

Nok, the *most* complex mathematical object anyone could see is my federal tax
return.

Al

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 193       Tue May 03, 1994
PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin!]         at 09:36 EDT

Al,
 Heh... :) Easy as Pi. :)

--Kevin
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 194       Tue May 03, 1994
Y.DUFRESNE [Papageno]        at 20:50 EDT

Sam_030,

That sounds pretty cool.  What is USA*FLEX?  Would they happen to do mail
order?

Yanick @ CGA
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 195       Tue May 03, 1994
A.PETRIE1 [Suzie/AL]         at 21:23 EDT

One practical use of fracltal is generating the 3D topographical landscapes
you sometimes see to represent surfaces of other planets, they can also be
used for great games Rescue on Fractalus comes to mind.

AL P
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 196       Tue May 03, 1994
L.BUDNICK [Lorne]            at 22:17 EDT

Thanks ALL for the very informative descriptions of fractals and the reasons
for interest in them and the ways in which they might be used. I do sincerely
appreciate the responses.

I have noticed a number of fractal files available within many of the RT
libraries, and was just not sure why there seemed to be so much interest in
them. Thanks to all the responses I have a much better understanding of what
is behind all of the interest in fractals.

Since asking about them, I have viewed a number of fractals and I must say
they are indeed interesting. I also put TT Artist to work generating some that
are available as screen savers. Watching the designs develop is also quite
interesting.

Thanks again for your feedback,

Lorne....

 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 197       Tue May 03, 1994
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 23:04 EDT

Lorne,

There were some good articles in Scientific American a couple of years ago on
fractals. I think in the amateur scientist section or somewhere else in the
back. They included discussions of generation of them on microcomputers. (That
_is_ what they call this thing, isn't it?)

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 198       Wed May 04, 1994
R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{]      at 00:37 EDT

Lorne,

For an up to date article on Fractals try the latest issue of American
 Scientist (Not Scientific American).  I found the article interesting because
of the relationship between experimental data and math theory.  Also, Nature
seems to be hooked on fractals.

Wait!.....did I hear a topic cop enter the room.  Cheeze it everybody.

                                                           (:{ Grouch.
 ------------
Category 4,  Topic 19
Message 199       Wed May 04, 1994
BBRADLEY [HOT DOG]           at 01:45 EDT

Grouch,

I'm using a Model 25 NEC external drive.

It is hooked to a Falcon.

Auto Folder with Warp 9, SPDGDOS, and CPX Control.

SCSI Setup is just the way the software came... ID 5, Drive Icon P:

I get music and it plays the whole disk if I click on PLAY.  If I try to FF or
any other command it starts over at track 1.  Play selected tracks is a no go
too.

No track display or other readouts.

Ideas???
 ------------