========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 2 Thu Apr 15, 1993 B.PLATT1 [BP] at 00:17 EDT Sub: Paint programs A place to discuss which paint programs are available for the ST/e/TT, and available features. For both commercial and PD programs. 202 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 1 Sat Apr 24, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 11:39 EDT Hi Folks: This is now April 24th. Is anyone interested in discussing Paint Programs? Otherwise this topic should vanish. Please participate if you want to keep it. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 2 Sun Apr 25, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 14:12 EDT I am slightly interested in a paint program that works on the STe. I tried a couple of the old ones, DEGAS, (SPECTRUM?), and they don't work. I am not very interested, so I didn't pursue it. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 3 Sun Apr 25, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 19:41 EDT Degas Elite and Spectrum work fine on _my_ STE w/TOS 1.6. Degas Elite is able to use the entire 4096 color palette by using Michael Crisafulli's "STe DEGAS Palette Helper" shareware accessory. Spectrum only works with the original 512 color ST palette, but it DOES work. __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 4 Mon Apr 26, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 02:00 EDT To furhter what Terry said, if you want a program that inherently supports the extended Palette, "Deluxe Paint" fits the bill. Also, HiSoft's new "TruePaint" supports it as well. In fact, it supports up to and beyond the Falcon palette. - T.J. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 5 Tue Apr 27, 1993 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 07:05 EDT TM, TJ, Thanks! I'll keep an Eye out for them. Billy B. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 6 Mon May 03, 1993 G.FORTIER2 [GERRY] at 08:04 EDT Does anyone know anything about "Didot Line Art"? Is it any good? I am looking for a graphics program to complement my copy of PageStream. Is there something that might be better that Didot? I understand that Didot will use the same postcript fonts that pagestream does. How about importing other graphics modes? Will it import IMG, degas, eps, ...etc Thanks for any info. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 7 Mon May 03, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 10:09 EDT I believe Didot Line Art has been handled by Goldleaf. Perhaps you might drop by their category and ask. Personally, I think both Invision Elite and Outline Art complinent Pagestream or any desktop publishing program like Calamus . ;-) Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 8 Mon May 03, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:40 EDT Gerry, Nathan is right. Goldleaf topic is: >Category 35, Topic 6 >Topic 6 Sun Apr 28, 1991 >R.MONFORT1 at 15:58 EDT >Sub: Didot and Retouche > >LineArt for vector graphics and Picture imageing for the TT030. Desktop >Publishing Solution. Brian ... Written on Monday 03 May 1993 at 04:39 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 9 Mon May 03, 1993 J.NESS [Jim] at 22:50 EDT I thought Goldleaf had gone away. Are they still in existance? -JN ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 10 Mon May 03, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 23:02 EDT Yes, Jim. They have a whole category here on GEnie. They hav been fairly active the past few weeks. Brian ... Written on Tuesday 04 May 1993 at 00:02 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 11 Sat May 29, 1993 R.BROWN30 at 04:38 EDT Not much happening here it seems! However, there is a new paint PRG in the offing and currently available: True Paint. This program (I bought it) has all sorts of fun problems. Maybe some discussion would help clarify and expedite solutions to this prg which supports a WIDE variety of formats (24 bit JPEG, which almost works, for one) for almost all Ataris, including Falcon true color modes... I have a review of True Paint coming to GEnie Lamp... -Richard Brown ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 12 Sat May 29, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 09:34 EDT Richard ... Are you referring to True Paint from HiSoft? If so, it is currently being discussed in its own topic over in Category 33, Topic 15 as HiSoft product is handled in North America by Oregon Research. Good news on the upcoming review. Sincerely Nathan ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 13 Mon May 31, 1993 R.BROWN30 at 00:36 EDT Nathan: Oops.. guess I should update the product list again... -Richard Brown ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 14 Tue Jul 06, 1993 Y.SIU at 03:01 EDT Hi..if you are looking for the latest in some of the graphics and paint programs..why don't you come and check out LEXICOR SOFTWARE at topic 25 and see the new NOVA STELLUM Software Paleetette. Yat@Lexicor ps. Hope to see you there ;) ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 15 Sat Aug 07, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 12:18 EDT What the Falcon needs is a powerful paint program. TruePaint just doesn't cut it. I can accomplish much more using Unispec and an ordinary 1040ST than I can on my Falcon with TruePaint. Unispec is the finest paint program I know, with its sophisticated yet easy-to-use multiple buffers, highly configurable color editing and tinting, block addition,subtraction, averaging, multiple pallettes, gradient fills, etc. Artis seems much more powerful than Truepaint, but is only available in German and costs an arm and a leg. (The demo version is here on GEnie.) Does anyone know anything about Chagall? Or any other Falcon paint programs in the works? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 16 Sat Aug 07, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 15:09 EDT David, Ah, Chagall. CodeHead should have more information in a week or so. We also have another imported graphics utility up our sleeves. Among a host of other things, this new program will allow you to view and print your UniSpec creations on the Falcon030. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 17 Sat Aug 07, 1993 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 18:34 EDT Good. My art program; Sketch is the oldest program I have. Now that I have a Falcon I guess it's time to upgrade and the early bird will probably get the worm. ~:^)X ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 18 Fri Aug 13, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 01:33 EDT I was looking at a magazine ad for a PC program called Alchemy Paint and feeling VERY ENVIOUS! Since when do I have to buy a CLONE in order to get a good art program? The more I use True Paint the less I like it. I sure hope there are some good paint programs available for the Falcon at the Glendale show. True Paint claims there is a bug in the Falcon OS that prevents truecolor fills. Are other developers waiting for this bug to be fixed before they release their Falcon paint packages? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 19 Fri Aug 13, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 01:40 EDT David, have you considered Seurat? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 20 Fri Aug 13, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:40 EDT When Seurat works in 256 colors or more I'll consider it. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 21 Fri Aug 13, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 22:57 EDT Like I said, David, it's time to consider Seurat. The latest version is fully Falcon-compatible, supports Targa, TrueColor XG A, Color TIFF...the list goes on and on. Contact SKWare One / P.O. Box 277 / Bunker Hill / IL 62014. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 22 Sat Aug 14, 1993 COMPO at 02:27 EDT David - You might also be interested in Studio Photo, our 24-bit paint program/photo studio. That's real 24-bit, not Falcon 15-bit. We should have it ready for Glendale. Right off the bat, I should tell you that it always works in 24-bit color internally, and adapts to whatever video mode you're in. There is a special 32- bit version for the TT and Falcon... yes, it takes advantage of all the swell stuff in the Falcon but also works on other Atari machines, either stock or with enhanced video boards. It supports most major file formats - TIFF, Photo CD, Targa, PCX, etc etc and even has JPEG with DSP-based compression/decompression. It includes photo-realistic tools (including real 24-bit fills and gradients), as well as effects, filters, the whole deal. I hope to see you at Glendale... Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 23 Sat Aug 14, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 07:52 EDT Robert, Would you mind keeping me posted on that one, it's exactly what I need! ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 24 Sat Aug 14, 1993 F-D-PERCIVAL [Fred P.] at 09:38 EDT Dorothy, What's the current Seurat version #? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 25 Sat Aug 14, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 11:02 EDT Fred, I don't know if this is the VERY latest; I got it in June: v. 2.78KC. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 26 Sat Aug 14, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 11:57 EDT Studio Photo sounds very good Robert. Are you familiar with the program "Paint Alchemy"? Actually it appears not to be a stand-alone program but a plug-in module for Adobe Photoshop. There's a very nice ad for it on the inside cover of the current Mondo 2000 magazine. Anyway, I'm hopeful that Studio Photo may do some of those same types of transformations to digital pictures. Any idea what the pricing will be? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Dot, are you saying that Seurat 2.78 supports 256 color pallettes and True Color too? I thought I had to wait for Seurat 3.0 for that stuff. Maybe 2.78 *runs* on a Falcon, but does it let you paint with the Falcon's extra colors and in the higher resolutions? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 27 Sat Aug 14, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 13:18 EDT COMPO, Will you posting a demo file? Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 28 Sat Aug 14, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 13:36 EDT David, let me see if I can get Kelly Webb in here to respond more accurately to your questions. I'm a casual user of paint programs, not an expert. I'm also wondering if he has a new demo. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 29 Sat Aug 14, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou @Machine] at 15:57 EDT Robert, That is great news! Looking forward to see more of Studio Photo. How are the tools in this program? Does it compare to PhotoShop at all? Thanks. --Lou T.-- Written: Saturday, August 14, 1993 02:26 p.m. EDT ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 30 Sun Aug 15, 1993 Y.SIU at 09:42 EDT Nice to know that you liked ARTIS. As a matter of fact the programmer's of ARTIS are now working with LEXICOR SOFTWARE on the new Prism Paint II. So if you liked the functions and options in ARTIS, imagine those in an animation package, due for release very soon in September. More details in our Topic Area 25. :) Chagall is supported by Codeheads, I have seen it at CeBIT. It really depends what it is that you are looking for. Chagall the full color version it also not exactly cheap in Germany at least. It's probably one of the best color'touch up programs for the Atari Platform designed to run in High or True Color. If you wish to draw with it..i.e. do Pixel Oriented Graphics etc. then Artis or PIXART are definately better for that purpose. Studio Photo I have also seen at CeBIT, it really looked nice, but I hadn't enought time to give it a complete check :) Yat @ Lexicor ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 31 Mon Aug 16, 1993 S.WEBB7 at 02:02 EDT A progrss report on SEURAT. Current Version is 2.79. I runs on every- thing from a 1040ST w/TOS 1.0 to FALCON w/TOS 4.04 in the the three ST modes. Version 3.0, due out somewhen in October 93, will support 256 color and TrueColor. Current new purchasers of Vers. 2.78 and up will receive free upgrade to Vers. 3.0. Paradoxically, all of SEURAT's actual functions work just fine in 256-&-True color, but the damned interface doesn't! Vers. 3.0 will have a conventional GEm interface to handle any video mode. In reply to the remark about the Falcon OS not performing all vdi graphic functions, it is true. This is why TruePaint's filled rectangles don't fill when a user-defined multiplane fill is selected and flood fill won't work in True Color, etc. Putting modesty aside, all these functions do work in SEURAT with TOS 4.02 or higher, since I wrote my own routines to implement the vdi functions that don't perform. (This has also helped delay SEURAT Vers. 3.0, of course, and it could be that by the time I get it out, the TOS will be fixed --- and all you'll have to do is buy a new TOS chip... or you could just buy SEURAT.) I won't fill the screen with a big list of features, but if any- one has specific does-it-do-this-or-that questions, send e_mail to S.WEBB7. If any of you are Falcon-owners already, search the (all) libraries under the keyword skware1 and you will find a large number of Falcon image utilities posted. Currently, I am about 75% through the beta of the new COLORSCAN, to be called Colorscan256, which will convert mono dithered (or photoscanned) images from 16,32,64,&256 scale scanners into 256-greyscale and colorized images. It has a very power- ful array of image processing routines for re-sizing, contrast stretching by user-modified histogram sorting, a unique LaPlacian filter with a user-set variable strength-of-effect control, condensation by cell- averaging, and the first small-computer implementation of NASA's SPIT algorithm (that's StarburstPixelIntensityTransform to you)! It works with true 8-bit (256) greys even though the Falcon only shows you the top 6-bits. CS256 will also apply these routines to 256-color color images boosting them into TrueColor images with thousands of colors. This afternoon I finished the routine which will read SPECTRUM pictures into 256-color mode, so anyone with a mountain of SPECTRUM pix can change them right into XIMG files. (Before everybody jumps on me because they think SPECTRUM pix have more than 256 colors, I have yet to find one with more than 181 colors. Attempts to break this record are welcome; send me a copy...) Basically, why should you buy SEURAT? I say it's because a great many promising programs are essentially one- shot jobs. Seen any upgrades to Degas Elite or Deluxe Paint or whatever lately? I have been writing and re-writing SEURAT for five years now, on a roughly twice-a-year basis; I say it's the most likely to grow with the needs of its users and changes in the platform. Again, you can send any specific questions to me on GEnie --- S.WEBB7 ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 32 Mon Aug 16, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 10:06 EDT Thanks for the update S.WEBB7! Seurat sounds like a must-have for me! Will you be at the Glendale show? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 33 Mon Aug 16, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 11:57 EDT Kelly, thanks for the more authoratative description of Seurat! I knew you could answer these questions better yourself. ;-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 34 Mon Aug 16, 1993 COMPO at 16:03 EDT David - No, I don't think I know of Paint Alchemy... and I haven't read Mondo 2000 in a long time... I do know of Image Alchemy, a DOS program, but I suspect we're talking about something different. I'll try to look up Paint Alchemy. Pricing hasn't been set yet. Ken - Yes, there will be a demo. Lou - The tools are very functional, and geared towards traditional painting and retouching. Off the top of my head, you have a pencil, paintbrush, airbrush, sharpener, water (blur tool), finger (smear tool), rubber stamp (copier), eraser, bucket (color fill), and a few others. For most tools you have parameters like opaque or hue modes, opacity, strength, and fade. Each tool can be used regularly or over lines and bezier curves... and the gradient fill options are particularly impressive. You also have effects and filters, like mosaic, inversion, conversion, lighten, darken, blur, sharpen, outline, hue and brightness/contrast filters, convolution filters, mirror, spherize, and anti-aliasing. You can separate color channels and you have a lot of block options, for defining your work area (in terms of physical area and color boundaries). In general, Studio Photo is more similar to PhotoShop than something like True Paint. But it'll cost a lot less than PhotoShop... Thanks, Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 35 Mon Aug 16, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:22 EDT Kelly, will Seurat 3 be able to handle the non-standard Falcon resolutions made possible by Screenblaster and Falconscreen? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 36 Tue Aug 17, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou @Machine] at 02:25 EDT Robert, Studio Photo will be very welcomed on the Atari platform with the tools you described that it had. I look forward to trying a demo of it (if there is one available for it). It is great to see COMPO so active in the Atari platform, well at least hearing about what COMPO is doing is doing right here on GEnie, when in the past, I got most of my news about COMPO through the Bristish Atari magazines. --Lou T.-- Written: Tuesday, August 17, 1993 00:48 a.m. EDT ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 37 Tue Aug 17, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 09:02 EDT Bob very ably IS COMPO in North America. In the past, Neil used to handle N.A. from England. I also look forward to seeing Studio Photo. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 38 Wed Aug 18, 1993 S.WEBB7 [SKWARE1] at 02:46 EDT I have tried any explosively expansive screen hacks on my delightfully expensive falcon yet, particular the one that warn that their program could destroy your monitor. As I age, my risk-taking propensities dimish... However, Vers. 3.0 of SEURAT will work with any device-specific display that the vdi supports in the normal way, regardless of its size. I am currently in a snit because the NOVA board and der CrazyDots don't behave like a conventional display device; do a simple copy_raster_opaque to them and you get planar hash. It irketh me that they don't support the basic vdi function for slapping raster to screen; it doesn't sound like "compatible" to me. However, I hope to hack out a fix for that, too. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 39 Wed Aug 18, 1993 COMPO at 03:29 EDT Thanks for the kind words, Lou. Neal O'Nions runs COMPO in the U.K.; there are also COMPO offices in Holland and Germany. We try not to talk up software and hardware that isn't ready, so you can get different information from the various international magazines and other sources. Most of it is valid; it all comes down to what's being shown to whom, and when. The bottom line is that it all ends up being printed somewhere, doesn't it? So hey, I'm your question and answer man (so to speak) here in America. We are very busy on many Falcon-oriented products, and as a long time Atari user I'll tell you it's exciting stuff. Most of it is like Studio Photo, in that we're trying to introduce new technology without limiting it to Atari's newest machine. There will be a demo of Studio Photo, but not until we're ready to go with it. I expect we'll start shipping in September, and of course a demo will be available in the file library here. Thanks, Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 40 Wed Aug 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:59 EDT S.WEBB, I think you meant "haven't tried," not "have tried" at the start of your msg. Can you explain more about the problem with the video boards? Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 41 Wed Aug 18, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 08:07 EDT Sterling Kelly Webb is confusing everyone. ;-) Dorothy calls him Kelly, so do I following Dorothy's lead ;-), Mr. Webb has been known to sign his name Sterling Webb and in the BB, I'll guess he hasn't learned about handles. Sterling Kelly Webb, please give us all direction in this regard. Would you prefer we simply responded to S.WEBB7? In the meantime, I did receive the latest upgrade in-house and I have now passed it along to Cybercube Research Ltd. who will test it on the Cyrel Sunrise. Expect email from Ralf Doewich on the results. I suspect Seurat will display great. Sincerely Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 42 Wed Aug 18, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 09:49 EDT Nathan, when Kelly does discover the NAM command in here, I'd recommend that he type NAM SKWare One. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 43 Wed Aug 18, 1993 Y.SIU [Yat@Lexicor] at 19:37 EDT Dear S.Webb, Is there a DEMO Program available of your Software? I am not in the U.S. right now, but if you have any problems with the NOVA Board I would be glad to assist. To my knowledge the NOVA Board does handle standard VDI calls, any questions that you may have about the NOVA Board, I would be glad to help. (Personal Mail maybe) Sincerely Yat Siu ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 44 Thu Aug 19, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou @Machine] at 21:51 EDT Robert, Thanks for the information. I will keep myself up to date on Studio Photo along with the many other products coming from COMPO. --Lou T.-- Written: Thursday, August 19, 1993 08:59 p.m. EDT ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 45 Sat Aug 28, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 14:33 EDT As far as I know the following paint programs take advantage of the Falcon's capabilities: HiSoft's TRUE PAINT from Oregon Research Associates (This is the ONLY program on my list that is currently available in the U.S.) ARTIS 3.0 (This German program has some interesting special FX tools. But only the demo version is available in the U.S. and I hear the release version is German language only and rather costly.) Trade It's CHAGALL from Codehead (I know very little about this program but I believe it is more of a photo touchup/editing program oriented towards Desktop Publishing than a full featured paint program. I'm sure the Codehead's will jump in and correct me if I'm wrong.) PHOTOSTUDIO from Lexicor (Also a photo touchup/editing type program. I believe this may be available by the time of the Glendale show in September.) PRISM PAINT II from Lexicor (This may be called something else when it is released. Don't ask me when that may be.) SEURAT 3.0 from S.K.WEBB (This is the one I'm really waiting for. Now projected for a November release.) Does anyone know of any Falcon paint programs that I've left off my list? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 46 Wed Sep 01, 1993 Y.SIU [Yat@Lexicor] at 15:24 EDT Hi..uhm..Photostudio? are we releasing that? I think you made a mistake there :) ARTIS 3.0 support's the Falcon....and it is quite good. Prism Paint 1.5b also runs on the Falcon (However support only for 256 actually, runs in HC but..oh well). Pixart...supports the Falcon as well. Papillon I think too. Meridian aswell :) Prism Paint II will be released this month :) It will be called Prism Paint II..and is done together with the maker's of ARTIS :) so expect something great :) Yat ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 47 Thu Sep 02, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 01:10 EDT Oops sorry about the Photostudio mistake, Yat. I guess I don't know who's releasing that one but it's been mentioned here on GEnie recently. Will Prism Paint II be available at Glendale??? And tell me more about Pixart and Papillon. Who makes those and what are they like? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 48 Thu Sep 02, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 05:27 EDT Yat, I'm really looking forward to Prism Paint II. I thought it was going to be called something else. I thought calling it something else was a great idea as I never liked Prism Paint, and perhaps others feel as I do. Giving it a new name would get rid of prejudice one might have concerning the previous release. I am confident however from what you told me at CAF 93 that I will love Prism Paint II. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 49 Thu Sep 02, 1993 Y.SIU [Yat@Lexicor] at 20:21 EDT Well..it has a different name in Europe, maybe I should call it that here to? Oh well, the Program is known in the U.S. as Prism Paint II and in Europe as Artis Animator. (You know, just like Phoenix and Xenomorph). However aside from the fact that II can read PNT, that was it with the similarity.. Oh..by the way, did I tell you that it was on Sale already? Yat :) ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 50 Fri Sep 03, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 10:31 EDT No Yat, you didn't mention that Prism Paint II is already on sale. You also didn't mention the price! ;-) By the way, in an earlier message I mistakenly said "Photo Studio" was a Falcon paint program from Lexicor. The name of the program is "Studio Photo" and its from Compo. They say it will be available at the Glendale show. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 51 Fri Sep 03, 1993 C.OINES1 [Chazz] at 20:06 EDT I'm looking forward to both of them. Truepaint just isn't cutting it. I wish they'd finished Truepaint before releasing it ;) ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 52 Fri Sep 03, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 20:13 EDT Fairweather, >Category 7, Topic 36 >Message 2 Thu Sep 02, 1993 >Y.SIU [Yat@Lexicor] at 23:04 EDT >Date of availability: 03/09/93 >Price: Recommended Retail is 189 U$D. Now 30 Day special offer for 149 U$D. >Upgrade path is possible. Please call (510) 848-7621 for more details on that. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 53 Sat Sep 04, 1993 Y.SIU [Yat@Lexicor] at 11:27 EDT Pixart is a pixel editing program, which is quite fast, and guess what... ...it will be available by Lexicor too :) as another part of our NOVA stellum However, wait and see, it's already been selling very well in Germany by Omikron Software. Yat ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 54 Sun Sep 05, 1993 Y.SIU [Yat@Lexicor] at 09:21 EDT If you want the Info and Screen Shot's (Press Release) on Prism Paint II, just check out our/well my latest Upload in the Press Release area. There you can see, and get first imp's on Prism Paint II :) Yat ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 55 Mon Sep 20, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 02:05 EDT Hey, I just bought Compo's Photo Studio, and I must say that the more I play with it the more I'm getting to like it! If Unispec is a 100 then I'd already give Studio Photo at least a 98, and as I learn to use its tools it may even surpass Unispec! Speaking of Unispec, at the Glendale show I saw a copy in a pile of heavily discounted software where it was on sale for only 8 bucks!!! And Spectrum 512 (which you need to use Unispec) was also available at a similar price! In retrospect I wish I'd bought it just to make it available to some of the people here who have been looking for it, but I'd already spent more money than I should have and the thought didn't cross my mind. Sorry. Anyway, I'll post more on Photo Studio soon, but my first impressions are quite favorable! ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 56 Mon Sep 20, 1993 C.OINES1 [Chazz] at 07:38 EDT What's the price on Photo Studio? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 57 Tue Sep 21, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 01:02 EDT I believe Studio Photo lists for $99. I got it for seventy-something at the Glendale show. I had a chance to fool around with it a bit more tonight and am getting a little clearer picture (no pun intended) of this program. PHOTO STUDIO is an excellent image processing program which can do adequate double-duty as a resolution independent, true color paint program. Strictly as a paint program I would say its easier to use than TRUE PAINT and has some tools that TRUE PAINT doesn't. I'm hoping that the combination of PHOTO STUDIO and SEURAT 3.0 when it comes out later this year will finally give me _everything_ I need in a paint program. It does create some nice gradients, but its not as flexible as UNISPEC in how you can use them. (As far as I can tell it doesn't have the sophisticated masking functions that UNISPEC used to control its fills). Where STUDIO PHOTO exels is in what it can do to an existing digitized image, either by touching it up to look "nicer" than its original source in a realistic way, or in transforming a real-world image into something fantastic or psychedelic. It seems to work flawlessly, (if somewhat slowly) in 256 color and 32K color modes and in non-standard "Screenblaster" modes. Working in 256 color mode I was able to keep many different pictures and multiple blocks on screen with no memory problems on my 4 meg Falcon. I'll be uploading some of my preliminary experiments soon so you can see what I'm talking about. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 58 Wed Sep 22, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:42 EDT By the way, Studio Photo comes with the Multitos/Mint CDROM Driver. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 59 Sun Sep 26, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 22:13 EDT So is anyone else here using PHOTO STUDIO on their Falcon? I learned a new trick with it today. At first I thought that its Gradient Fills were of limited utility because you could only create them inside of ellipses or rectangles. In UNISPEC you could use masking boundary colors to create gradients of any shape. But today I realized that if you create your elliptical or rectangular gradient in a separate picture, you can then use the RUBBER STAMP tool to precisely apply that gradient anywhere you like within another picture. And by selecting HUE mode on the RUBBER STAMP, you can apply the gradient non-destructively wherever you like! Maybe this is incomprehensible to anyone who hasn't actually used the program, but what it means to me, is that I can apply very realistic shading and shadowing to any picture! And I can do it in a way that's much more controllable and predictable than UNISPEC, where you never really knew how your gradient fills were going to turn out until they were finished. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 60 Mon Sep 27, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 01:16 EDT Oh, another couple of nice things about PHOTO STUDIO: It comes with a special JPEG module that utilizes the DSP chip for fast decompression, I'd say its about 3 or 4 times faster than without. I believe this is the first non-sound utilizations of the Falcon's DSP chip that I've seen outside of a fractal demo. It also comes with the Multitos/Mint CDROM driver. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 61 Mon Sep 27, 1993 S.FARWIG [STAN] at 21:46 EDT David: I too got Studio Photo at Glendale and, without having time to work with it as a paint program, I am very impressed with the tools as described in the manual and look forward to spending long hours playing with it to gain technique. But, so far for me, it's greatest potential is as a paint program because of a problem I've encountered that no one else seems to have and that I've been taxing good Robert with. It is that the GIF scans I have tried in Studio Photo are of a poor display quality compared with the displays of other programs, with abundant "moire" effects and loss of color clarity. I'm been at a loss to know how to edit them in this condition and, to complicate matters, artifacts introduced in the SP display are retained if the file is saved from SP and then displayed in other programs. Robert tells me this is because SP follows professional standards and operates internally in a 24-bit color mode and, as well as I can understand, must make compromises when performing a 16-bit color display. He also tells me the editied files will look terrific on a 24-bit color machine, but a 24-bit color machine doesn't appear on the horizon in my future, so I'm having trouble relating to SP as a photo editing tool. "True color", 40 column mode is the closest thing to a reasonable GIF display I have been able to attain. What resolution have you been doing your editing? thanks for any comments Stan ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 62 Tue Sep 28, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 01:16 EDT Gee, I hadn't really noticed it before, but now that you mention it, I guess the GIF display is kind of grainy. Maybe you could use Gemview to change your GIF's into TGAs or IMGs or TIFs? I'll give it a try and report back. Some GIF's (smaller images) don't seem as grainy as others. I've been fooling around with a 320 x 200 Madonna GIF that isn't too grainy at all. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Well, converting it to a TIF via Gemview didn't help the display at all in 640x480 256 color mode. Like you said, True Color mode is a little better. I guess this "problem" doesn't really bother me too much because by the time I get done filtering, convoluting, spherizing, and otherwise distorting my pics past recognition, a little grainyness in the source pic is long forgotten! :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 63 Tue Sep 28, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:58 EDT GIF files can only be 8bit 256 color files at the most. They should appear the same in any res 8 bit planes or higher. I can see where it would get messed up if you edited it in 24bit then saved it as a GIF. I don't have Photo Studio yet but I think they should consider making the 24bit internal operation optional. I prefer to have a paletted mode to edit in if I'm planning on using the image in that resolution. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 64 Wed Oct 13, 1993 R.BROWN30 at 00:14 EDT As another who picked up Studio Photo at Glendale, I immediately threw GIF's, JPEGs, and TIFF's at it, and from first looks, it appears that the more serious the graphic, the more serious the display quality - even on my TT's lowly 16 color display. As far as editing goes, I think for now I'm going to stick with 256 shade black and white conversions (from 24 bit) for a while - these images display at a useable quality, even in 16 color TT medium, to allow pro-level editing, contrast control, filtration, etc. I agree with others that color work really needs a better hardware display, but of course, with unlimited assets, you could just go to the trouble of doing a separation and checking the color key... Perhaps my tune will change when I get my Cyrel graphics card down the road... But then... Of course, regarding color, save for the lowest end of this domain, this work is simply not done on "personal" computers. The "second-team" Mac (where the 'first team' is dedicated and 6 digits in price) used at a high end color sep house where an associate of mine works is worth far, far more than a shiny new car. In fact, once you're talking one shiny new car's worth of RAM, another shiny new car's worth of hard disk arrays - and by "shiny new car" we're talking BMW's... you start to get the picture: these are no longer "personal" machines. Back on topic, Studio Photo fills a giant gap in Atari computing, bringing "power without the price" back to reality. I was amazed by the price offered at Glendale, along the order of 1/10 that of PhotoShop. Even at $100+, this package would be a must-have. And, regarding PhotoShop, I can say that SP is FAST next to PhotoShop on the Mac relative to loading smallish 1-2 meg files (Tiff) and even without the DSP, holds its own in JPEG decompression in files of the same (uncompressed) range in size. I am an old time PhotoShop user, and can only say that my trips to the Mac world instantly dwindled with SP for many common jobs. Yes, Studio Photo is only a _subset_ of PhotoShop, but it is the _right subset_ for the bulk of the work commonly thought of as belonging in the digital domain, and further, belonging on a _personal_ computer. Graphics tweaking for PageStream finally has a convenient Atari-based home. Optimizing images, even for ink sprayers like the Canon Bubblejets and HP DeskJets, becomes a straightforward reality. -Richard Brown ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 65 Wed Oct 13, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:29 EDT Richard, Your tune will change if you get a Sunrise, I promise!!:-) Think I'll see if my dealer has Photoshop! ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 66 Fri Oct 22, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 23:19 EDT I found a nice use for True Paint, it easily converts GIF files to PNT format. You can use 640x480 PNT files as Warp 9 desktop pics on the Falcon or TT. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 67 Wed Nov 10, 1993 D.HELMICK [Dan] at 21:06 EST Has Photo Studio hit the street yet? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 68 Thu Nov 11, 1993 COMPO at 02:48 EST Dan - If you mean Studio Photo, I just uploaded to the Library a text file with details, and a demo. Check it out. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 69 Thu Nov 11, 1993 D.HELMICK [Dan] at 19:32 EST Thanks, Robert--that's exactly what I needed to see! And it looks good, too. When will shipments start going out to dealers? One question I have about it...is there some way to get a more rigorous use of the color palette? For instance, the 256-color conversion from true color images looks fairly washed out, with a great deal of dithering using uncomfortably mismatched colors. Where True Paint may use 240 colors for such a conversion, and GEM-View 160 colors, Studio Photo's conversion seems to be more on a par with Corel Draw's 80 colors. Or does the actual saved file contain more colors than the image displayed? Dan ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 70 Thu Nov 11, 1993 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 21:03 EST Hi All, Does anyone know of a paint program that will "lasso" around an irregularly shaped graphic, so that the result is not a square or rectangular block, but an exact outline of the image. I need this feature for postscript output. Appearantly, Postscript does not support transparent IMG's or other bitmaps. I sometimes have occasion to put a bitmap in front of another graphic and print out to postscript. The big white block area around the image, ruins the output. Any ideas or suggestions are appreciated. Thanks--Rob ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 71 Thu Nov 11, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 22:20 EST Rob, Try MVG. It has what Dr. Bob calls object copy mode, or something like that. Black and white only. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 72 Fri Nov 12, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:05 EST Unispec can do a lasso block cut, but it takes several steps to acheive the effect. The only other program I can think of that might do it is Deluxe Paint. I'll need to review the manual and get back to you on that. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 73 Fri Nov 12, 1993 COMPO at 01:52 EST Dan - Studio Photo doesn't index the colors, and even with 256 color pics maintains a 24-bit palette internally. GIFs are saved in 256 colors. If you can, try to stick to 24-bit formats. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 74 Fri Nov 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:31 EST Robert, Wow! Studio Photo's demo is a knockout on my TT with a Crazy Dots II card. Lost a lot of sleep last night just because of you! What's just as impressive is the intuitive nature of the software. I didn't even read the README (if there is one with it; I got too excited to look). But I assume it tells how to order the full version? Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 75 Fri Nov 12, 1993 COMPO at 15:03 EST Al- Thanks. Of course the Studio Photo demo archive includes a README file! The file does have our address, phone numbers, and stuff like that, so you can contact us and order Studio Photo, if you like. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 76 Fri Nov 12, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:07 EST Rob, I seem to remember Prism Paint 2 will "lasso" any shape you drag with the mouse. I through away the demo so I don't want to say it is a certainty. The Demo is available here on GEnie. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 77 Fri Nov 12, 1993 E.WELLS at 23:30 EST I tried the Studio demo on my TT with the NOVA 24bit card. Oops. No go! software runs fine, but pictures have really messed up colors. If yoy (make that 'you') isolate the color planes they appear fine... EHW ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 78 Sat Nov 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:55 EST Robert, Ahem.... I finally did get to read the README file, and found the info. You're doing a great job. EHW, I found the demo worked fine on my Crazy Dots II card at up to 256 colors. At 32,000 I got mush. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 79 Sat Nov 13, 1993 R.VOORNEVELD [BOB] at 13:07 EST Robert, Studio Photo is really a nice program and works really great on the Cyrel Sunrise M16 card. See E-mail for my order. Bob ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 80 Sat Nov 13, 1993 D.SMITH200 [Dave] at 17:16 EST EHW < I tried the Studio demo on my TT with the NOVA 24 bit card. < No go! ....messed up colors.. I tried Studio on my TT in 600x800x256, and the colors are fine. I'm using the NOVA 16M VME. Apart from the dither, I didn't see a problem. What version of the Nova software are you running? I'm still using 1.55. Hmmm... Dave ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 81 Sat Nov 13, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 20:49 EST Bob, Did you try True Color on yoru Cyrel? My colors are messed up in 32bit True Color but work fine in the 256 mode. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 82 Sun Nov 14, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 11:19 EST I'm very impressed with the Studio Photo demo. I've been hoping that a program would emerge that included the Spectrum/Unispec tools that I used on the ST, but supported current hardware & displays. Photo Studio certainly does all that & quite a bit more. Two questions -- first, how much faster is the TT030 version? And is the price *really* $99.95? (Not that I'm suggesting a price hike, you understand... ) ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 83 Sun Nov 14, 1993 R.VOORNEVELD [BOB] at 11:41 EST Joey, I just tried True color and the colors are askew. But it sure works fine in 256 mode. Bob ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 84 Sun Nov 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:55 EST Joey, 32 bit true color? Now THAT would be a lot of shades! :) Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 85 Sun Nov 14, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 18:32 EST Al, Actually it's the same number of colors as 24bit, the other 8bits are control bits for the video output. Still 16777216 colors does look pretty good.:-) The Jaguar pictures look excellent!:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 86 Mon Nov 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:29 EST Joey, See, I'm learning something every day. :) BTW, I pulled a 24-bit TIF (or was it a JPEG? I've forgotten...) into the Studio Photo demo when running my Crazy Dots in 15-bit mode and the picture looked good. Does the software discard the extra bits and do what it can with the others? Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 87 Mon Nov 15, 1993 J.NESS [Jim] at 15:11 EST Joey - "The Jaguar pictures look excellent.." Yeah, but I still wish Travis would upload them in .JPG format, which is a LOT smaller, due to compression. -JN ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 88 Mon Nov 15, 1993 W.BAYS1 [Eyeball Bill] at 20:11 EST I guess you guys have forgotten about 'ol NeoChrome, the paint program from the ST's mezzosoic period; It has a "lasso" tool. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 89 Mon Nov 15, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 22:00 EST Didja know that NeoChrome runs great on the TT? (I guess they followed all the rules...) Very fast, too. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 90 Mon Nov 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:29 EST Eyeball, 'Cept that NeoChrome won't run on my graphics card. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 91 Tue Nov 16, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 01:48 EST Wow, NeoChrome, That's the program that woke me up in the middle of the night calling me to the screen. All those bright colors on a black background, color cycling, slideshows. That was fun! I just loaded up NeoChrome for old time's sake and had a great time. It's hard to believe it still works with all the mods I've done to this ST. I don't have a graphics card though. I made an abstract masterpiece (what, you don't believe me?) and turned on the cycling. I was admiring my work when Liquid Pixels kicked in, cycling and all! Wo! ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 92 Tue Nov 16, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 02:21 EST Tomas, Neochrome, the first program I saw on an ST. I had never seen a computer do colors like that....I bought one! I then used it to do a lot of music productions. Now I am back to doing graphics with Paint and Animations programs. Thanks for reminding me what got me into Atari. John *you know your getting older when you feel nostalgic* :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 93 Tue Nov 16, 1993 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:25 EST J.NESS - Only if he does them -quality =>95! ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 94 Tue Nov 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:27 EST Bill, Yes, NeoChrome DOEs run on the TT, very well, in fact. But unlike a lot of modern apps, it does not like graphics cards. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 95 Tue Nov 16, 1993 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 17:39 EST This may not qualify as a "Paint Program" but does anyone have any comments about "INVISION ELITE" from DMC Marketing, Ontario, Canada? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 96 Tue Nov 16, 1993 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 21:38 EST David, I, too, have Studio Photo. I'm using it on a TT. With only 2 megs of RAM, I've been somewhat limited. I've found the manual to be ok covering the basics, but I'd really like to see it about 10x thicker. I know there is room for tutorials on the various filters and functions. Also, I may be mistaken, but I can't find an "undo" method. Would you take a shot at explaining the rubber stamp tool to me. I am missing the concept on how it works and what its uses are. BTW, is there a Studio Photo topic here? Thanks--Rob ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 97 Wed Nov 17, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:37 EST Dr. Don, I like it! The color upgrade works pretty good in the TT's 256 color mode. It has the best zoom mode I've every used. Just click your right button and it automatically selects the color of the pixel under the mouse. It needs to be tuned up a little for color on a graphic card but it seems to work quit well otherwise. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 98 Wed Nov 17, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 13:58 EST Hmmm, I see a trend developing here - NeoChrome is what caught my eye and convinced me to buy my 520ST in 1986! What a program! John ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 99 Wed Nov 17, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 23:02 EST Yes, it's rediscover NeoChrome week. My 5 year-old needed a more powerful art program and the messages here reminded me how much I loved NeoChrome. I'll show it to her this weekend. I suppose now I'll have to give her my Okimate 20. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 100 Thu Nov 18, 1993 COMPO at 18:56 EST Studio Photo is VDI compliant, and works well as long as you have VDI drivers that function correctly. There is a bug in the NOVA's VDI drivers that prevents correct display at some resolutions/color depths. Check with your distributor for a newer version of the display driver, or get NVDI for ET4000. On the Cyrel card, you need to run TC_SHIFT.PRG before running Studio Photo. Check with the guys at Cybercube for more info. Bill - There are substantial differences between the standard Studio Photo and the 32- bit Studio Photo, especially on a Falcon030. Yes, the retail price is really $99.95. Al - Studio Photo always uses a 24-bit model and palette internally. If your display is using less than 24 bits per pixel, it will scale down for display only. All operations are still done on the 24-bit model. Rob - 'Undo' exists via the Paste On function. Before changing an image, copy the desired work area to a block, then change the block. If it turns out like you want, do a 'Paste On' to return the block to the original image at the correct location. Otherwise, just close the block. The rubber stamp tool copies an image area. Perhaps the best way to explain this one is with an example. Say you have an image of a face. For the 'copy from' point, select the middle of the right eye (by holding ALT and clicking the left mouse button). Then select the 'copy to' point, say, the middle of the nose (by holding CNTL and clicking the mouse button). Now the points are linked, and as you paint around the nose, the right eye appears. Because you are painting around the 'copy to' point in relation to the 'copy from' point, if you continue painting away from the nose (now the right eye) to the left, you'll eventually paint the left eye as well. And if you move back to the right and down a little, you'll get the original nose! This works great if you're, say, putting your face into an image of the cast of Gilligan's Island. Just load up both images, use the brush to put your face on top of the Professor's, then do a soft blur around the edges for a soft, realistic appearance. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 101 Thu Nov 18, 1993 W.BAYS1 [Eyeball Bill] at 20:07 EST ---NeoChrome Nostalgia--- My dad is a professional artist, and oils are his media of choice. I showed him NeoChrome way back in '86 when my ST was brand new, and he was glued to the computer for several hours. I still have the .NEO picture he "painted" that day. He was impressed with the "pallette-grid" of colors, and likened that to the way he arranged his oils on his "real" pallette when painting. No other program ever interested him at all, not even a wordprocessor (he will not give up his typewriter to this day).That says alot about the quality of the NeoChrome user interface. Here was a professional artist who had never used a computer for anything, and with only the minimal instruction of "here's the mouse, you move it around on this mat and the arrow follows your movement, and you click the buttons to make a selection" was able to use the program to create a work of art. Imagine setting him down in front of an ST running Spectrum 512, for example. That would have closed the book on computer art for him, I'm sure. I still have yet to find a more intuitive art program for my ST. There are some very powerfull programs with many features that have replaced NeoChrome as the paint program of choice for the ST, but NeoChrome is still the easiest to use,by far. And to me, that's what really counts. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 102 Fri Nov 19, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:15 EST Oh man, The kid already wants to know how to clear the screen in NeoChrome. Three minutes into the program and she finds the one flaw. Where is David Staugas now anyway? David, We'd all like to see your dad's painting. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 103 Fri Nov 19, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 17:25 EST ...how to clear the screen in NeoChrome? Isn't there a way to do that? I thought you held down some key while clicking on the eraser tool or something like that... it's been a long time. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 104 Fri Nov 19, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 22:48 EST Bill, Well, I haven't found that key combination yet. I've fixed up a disk that will autoboot NeoChrome quickly so she can just press the reset button. That'll clear the screen for sure. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 105 Fri Nov 19, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 23:55 EST Tomas, Okay, I checked it out... you double-click on the eraser icon and it'll clear the *visible* part of the frame. It doesn't clear the part hidden underneath the toolbox though. So, it's a two-step process. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 106 Sat Nov 20, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 14:09 EST Oh, Thanks Bill! That helps a lot! ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 107 Tue Nov 23, 1993 S.FARWIG [STAN] at 01:22 EST I find it difficult to be nostalgic about NeoChrome or Dega Elite since they were too limited in both palette and tools to allow the creation of graphics that expressed much of what I wanted to express. This is not to suggest that interesting graphics can't be created with them...talented artists can be creative with the simplest of means...but if the graphic is sucessful it is due to the ability of the user and, while paint programs allow the user to gain ability, none simply confers ability. Even the most "intuitive" of paint programs is not going to turn the user into a Degas or Seurat or even an Andy Warhol with a few keystrokes and passes of the mouse. Since I am nostalgic over Spectrum 512, Eyeball Bill's comment on it was nettlesome, and I think demonstrates an English writer's characterization as "the most misunderstood and under utilized of Atari programs." It also ressurected a suspicion I've had regarding the Atari market for paint programs, namely: many, if not most, users want a paint program to more or less, forgive the term for want of a better, doodle. Now, that's a perfectly good use to put a paint program, but not one to judge a paint program by. >I still have yet to find a more intuitive art program for my ST. >there are some very powerfull programs with many features that have >replaced NeoChrome as the paint program of choice for the ST, but >NeoChrome is still the easiest to use, by far. And to me, that's >what really counts. Adequacy is liable to count more than ease of use to many users interested in creating computer graphics. Yes, creating, or at least learning to create, graphics with Neochrome is easier and swifter than with Spectrum 512, and I'm sure Eyeball Bill's dad would agree that both programs are easier than creating graphics of professional caliber with oils and that oils are his medium of choice because they are most adequate to his needs. Creating computer graphics does, however, involves a bit more than intuitive computer programs and ease of use; it also requires study, experimentation and practise to gain craft--learning to use the tools, mastering techniques and principles (including those common to all the graphic arts irrespective of the medium) and disipline-- and an interest that may border on obsession. Spectrum 512 is a more difficult program to master because it offers _far_ more tools and possibilities than NeoChrome, and learning to utilize these does involve time and effort. >My dad is a professional artist, and oils are his media of choice. >I showed him NeoChrome way back in '86 when my ST was brand new, and >he was glued to the computer for several hours... That says alot about >the quality of the NeoChrome user interface. Here was a professional >artist who had never used a computer for anything, and with only the >minimal instruction of "here's the mouse, you move it around on this >mat and the arrow follows your movement, and you click the buttons >to make a selection" was able to use the program to create a work of >art. Imagine setting him down in front of an ST running Spectrum 512, >for example. That would have closed the book on computer art for >him, I'm sure. I've always been puzzled by the reported difficulty of the Spectrum 512 interface, although it was commented on (but not explained) by reviewers and even by Charles Cherry who wrote the manual. Perhaps it is a personal thing, but I have found it admirably "intuitive" (if that term is correctly understood) and it is the only paint program I know that keeps your palette, your tools AND your entire graphic on screen at all times and, for me at least, it is most useful to be able to view the work in progress when making choices about it. But, Bill, with only several hours investment, it doesn't really sound as though the book was ever opened all that much and while the NeoChrome interface may have been grasped readily, an artist might well feel the possiblities of NeoChrome had been exhausted in a few hours and there was little challange left to it. I regret your dad never got to explore the paletting and color manipulating techniques of Spectrum 512...it certainly took him more then several hours to master oils and he might have been glued to a computer even longer. my best Stan ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 108 Tue Nov 23, 1993 M.POCHE [Mick] at 03:08 EST Stan - Agreed, at least on the merits and capabilities of Spectrum 512 (and even better, UniSpec). It is the program I miss most since switching over to a MSTE. I believe that with the Falcon and several high-quality graphics boards available for the ST/TT line, a program with all of the features of Spectrum that doesn't have to rely on 'trickery' to pull off the colors in Spectrum would be a big seller! (That is probably the most horribly written sentence I've ever seen!) I'd even be happy with a patch to get Spectrum up 'n running on my system! - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 109 Tue Nov 23, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 18:38 EST Mick, I dropped in here to ask about the Studio Photo program -- because it has some features that I miss since I started using a TT030 and had to give up Unispec. The ability to selectively tint portions of an image, and the *very* controllable blur functions are some of my favorite Unispec features. I don't know if Studio Photo is exactly "24 bit Unispec", but it's close enough for me to order a copy. (The "spherize" function alone is worth the price of admission. I just hope it's a little speedier in the commercial '030 version.) ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 110 Thu Nov 25, 1993 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 10:29 EST Hi All, Thanks for your replies on my "lasso" question. Let me clarify my need. I have a very irrigularly shaped object. I need to save this object in a block that contours exactly to the outline of the object. It is really too complex to hand "lasso" What I really need is a program that will automatically "shrink" around the outline of the object, and then save the irregularly shaped block in IMG or TIF so I can import into Pagestream. Any other ideas or suggestions would be welcome. Thanks--Rob ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 111 Thu Nov 25, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 14:08 EST Rob, Wish I knew more about your system, but....... If you are working in mono, you can do what you describe with MultiViewer Graphica. Hmmm, I don't know about TT high. Topic 5 of this category is the MVG topic. Hasn't been much action there lately, tho'. There are some caveats in getting it done tho'. For instance, the object you want to "cut out" must be surrounded by essentially the same patterns. So you may have do to some editting of the graphic before selecting "object copy". I created a "pseudo-3D" graphic of the state of Alaska using this feature. Anyway, after getting the object "cut out", you can delete the original graphic, and the "paste" the object to a blank screen and save it. Remember, the newly save graphic will not be irregularly shaped, it will be rectangular when imported into another program. So, if you want to place your irregularly shaped graphic onto/into still another graphic, you will have to do it using MVG. Simply load the new graphic into MVG before "pasting" the irregular copy. If you are willing to "hand lasso" it, you can do it in Invision Elite 2.0, which will run in color. MVG will not run in color. I have both, and it depends on what I want to do, which program I use. Hope this is clear as mud. Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 112 Thu Nov 25, 1993 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 15:42 EST Rob: You have two problems: 1) There aren't any atari program's I know of that auto-lasso. 2) This doesn't matter because you still can't "save" a lasso'd block as anything but a square block using IMG, TIF, or any other format I know of. There are a couple of potential solutions. If you are mixing two graphics perhaps you could pre-combine them in one of the previously mentioned paint programs before importing into Pagestream. Course this wouldn't work with text. If the graphics is monochrome line art you should be able to turn it into a vectorized GEM file using one of the many autotracing packages available, like Sillouette. This probably wouldn't work too well for color though. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 113 Thu Nov 25, 1993 D.HELMICK [Dan] at 17:46 EST Rob, I presume what you're trying to do is use an irregularly-shaped graphic in Pagestream? In that case, there is a workaround... Place your graphic on the page, then for text runaround select none. Now send the graphic to the back. Your text column will be obscuring it. Select that text column, then set its fill style to "Clear". At this point, you can see the graphic through the text. Now...use your polygon tool to draw a shape around the graphic, where you want the text to run around it. For the polygon, set the appropriate text runaround, then set its attributes...clear fill style and clear line style. Voila! Your text is running around the graphic. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 114 Tue Nov 30, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 22:15 EST Well, I got Studio Photo, and it looks pretty good. The '030 version does run faster on the TT than the version in the library here. Still, some of the functions do take some time. You can go fix a cup of coffee while "spherizing" a decent-sized block. I suppose this is partly because the program is still dealing with the image as 24 bit color, even if you're only viewing it in TT medium rez. Waiting for the color pallette to redraw gets somewhat annoying, though... no, it's not *that* slow, but I'm used to things happening fast on the TT. Another thing -- the program is copy-protected. The master disk will allow you two installs to your hard drive; you can de-install it back to the floppy if you want to change computers or do maintainance on your HD. I thought we'd seen the last of copy-protected productivity software. And finally, a minor bug... the program doesn't properly reset the TT's color palette when you exit to the desktop. All in all, I think it's well worth the price. Is there a topic yet for this program? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 115 Sat Dec 04, 1993 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 23:13 EST Okay, I figured out that the '030 version of Studio Photo that was installed on my drive did not have the "use TT RAM" bit set. After taking care of that, the program still runs fine, but noticeably faster. If that's not mentioned in the documentation (I did read it, but I may have missed it) it should be. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 116 Sun Dec 05, 1993 COMPO at 02:52 EST Bill - Thanks. I'll make sure that the info on TT flags is added to the documentation. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 117 Sun Dec 05, 1993 D.HELMICK [Dan] at 18:43 EST Robert, Is the copy protection on Studio Photo affected by: a) Hard disk optimization (e.g., Diamond Edge) b) Hard disk backup (e.g., Diamond Back)? Dan ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 118 Mon Dec 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:02 EST Robert, Do you know if the release version (as opposed to the demo) of Studio Photo works in 32K color modes? On my CDII card, the demo does not. If the 32K moded is supported, I won't be able to resist buying the release version. (GEM-View supports the CDII's 32k mode, so I'm hoping the full version of SP does, too. I like Studio Photo's way of operating much better than what I have seen of GEM-View.) Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 119 Wed Dec 08, 1993 COMPO at 16:21 EST Dan - Studio Photo shouldn't be affected by backing up or restoring, but it won't take kindly to optimization. When optimizing your drive, Studio Photo should be skipped/protected. Al - Studio Photo should be working in 32K color mode; I've heard that there is a problem with the Crazy Dots VDI drive in that mode, but everything works fine with NVDI for the ET4000 - do you have that version of NVDI? Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 120 Wed Dec 08, 1993 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 21:21 EST Thanks guys for your further ideas on the irregularly shaped bitmaps in PGS. Heres the situation I'm trying to solve. I have a vectorized graphic of a hatchet that is black. I have a complex bitmap of a head of lettuce that must be green, too complex to auto-trace to vector. In pagestream, I want to place the head of lettuce partially over the hatchet so that the hatchet looks like its embedded in the lettuce. The problem is that when printed to postscript, the lettuce is a square block and the white portion of the block covers the hatchet. I can't send the lettuce to the back, because it has to cover the hatchet. This is where an irregular shape block would be helpful. I hope this clarifys my problem. At this time, I have used a workaround, but I know I'll encounter this problem again. Any further ideas? Thanks for your input--Rob ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 121 Thu Dec 09, 1993 D.SMITH200 [Dave] at 18:41 EST Rob, You could ungroup the hatchet and selectively detete the parts of the head you want "buried" in the lettuce. or... print both pictures seperately, make a "mechanical" by cutting the hatchet head and placing it physically the way you need and re-scanning. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 122 Fri Dec 10, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:24 EST Robert, Yes, I have the special NVDI produced for the ET4000. GEM-View works fine in that mode, BTW. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 123 Sat Dec 11, 1993 COMPO at 04:06 EST Thanks, Al. I'll look into this. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 124 Sat Dec 18, 1993 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 02:10 EST Dave, Thanks for the tip, the workaround I used was similar to your "mechanical" method, but I sure would like to find a better solution. I always try to avoid cut & paste when using my Atari. Guess I'm just spoiled. thanks--Rob ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 125 Fri Dec 24, 1993 L.PACE at 10:26 EST I AM HAVING TROUBLE WITH MYDRAW SAVING IT ALWAYS ASKES FOR (INGERMAN) SOMETHING ABOUT THE ASSIGN.SYS FILE CAN ANYONE HELP ME? THANK YOU ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 126 Sun Jan 16, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 00:52 EST Compo (Robert?), On or around 12/27 I phoned to report that I had a defective copy of Studio Photo--It would install on my ST but not on the Falcon. A replacement disk was to be sent. Any progress? Registration card has been mailed, so this is legit :) Thanks--BK ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 127 Tue Jan 18, 1994 COMPO at 00:07 EST Brian, I'll check to see if the replacement disk was sent and if your card was received. Even if the disk was sent, it's running a 'tad' late, so I'll get you another one immediately. I apologize for the inconvenience. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 128 Tue Jan 18, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 02:14 EST Thanks Robert, I've now forgotten to ask twice :( but could you enclose any lit on your other products? This is one fine program. Sure deserves its own topic. --BK ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 129 Tue Jan 18, 1994 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 23:48 EST Robert, Maybe I just missed it (I hope), but why doesn't Studio Photo have an UNDO function? Thanks--Rob ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 130 Wed Jan 19, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 01:22 EST Rob, No you didn't miss it :( The idea (I think--I'm still playing) is that you use CREATE in the tool box first to copy the area first you want to modify. This creates a BLOC window. If you're pleased with the mod, then you use Paste On to put the BLOC back onto the image. The "undo" would simply be closing the BLOC window, and not pasting. --Brian ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 131 Wed Jan 19, 1994 COMPO at 02:14 EST Rob - UNDO currently exists in Studio Photo through the Paste ON function, where you can manipulate a block and if it turns out right, you can easily paste it back into the original image at the correct location. If it doesn't, you can just close the block window. I suggest that if you think you might not like the results, create a block and do the work there. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 132 Wed Jan 19, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:43 EST Robert, Have you seen the messages about Studio Photo locking up under Geneva when the tool bar is accessed? I've seen this with the demo, and others have reported in (in the Geneva topic) when using the full program. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 134 Wed Jan 19, 1994 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 20:53 EST I got sick of waiting for someone else to do it, so I started topic 25 in this CAT for discussing Studio Photo. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 135 Thu Jan 20, 1994 COMPO at 07:07 EST Sure have, Al! Don't know what the problem is yet, but I'm working on it with Dan. I'm sure we'll get it patched up. Bill - Thanks! Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 136 Fri Jan 21, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EST Robert, Thanks. If you can get the CDII 15-bit color mode to work in Studio Photo, I'm in line with a check. Its JPEG handling seems wonderful, and the reduction to 256 colors just makes me impatient for the 32K color mode.... Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 137 Fri Jan 21, 1994 D.SMITH200 [Dave] at 21:13 EST Al, Studio Photo seems to have been written with the Falcon video modes in mind. It works wonderfully in Falcon true color. My Nova board suffers from the same problem. Studio will run fine in any 256 color resolution, but NOT in any of the 32K/16M modes... Sigh... I'm still waiting for word on TMS Cranach or Chagall. Hopefully they'll take advantage of 3rd party VDI. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 138 Sat Jan 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:03 EST Thanks, Dave. Now I know it's not something that the CDII card is doing. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 139 Sat Jan 22, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 05:23 EST Dave, did you try to immulate a Falcon rez with VMG? Falcon VGA is in 15bit is 320x480 and Falcon TV "true color" is 384x480. Maybe Studio Photo is looking for one of these resolutions. John B. p.s. This is just a guess as I know nothing of what I am talking about. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 140 Sat Jan 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:45 EST Flat, No, Studio Photo is just not recognizing the color bitplane format, that's all. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 141 Sat Jan 22, 1994 D.SMITH200 [Dave] at 13:03 EST John, I've had limited success with the VMG on the Optiquest 1000D. I'll experiment a bit though. Nice suggestion. ... Dave ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 142 Sat Jan 22, 1994 COMPO at 18:46 EST Dave - Studio Photo was written to be VDI compliant, and not specifically for the Falcon. It should work on any graphics card... but I understand that all but the Cyrel VDI drivers have problems. There is a problem in 32K mode on ET4000 boards that we're looking into. This is specific to ET4000 boards; I believe Studio Photo works fine in 32K mode on the Cyrel. Studio Photo should run in True Color modes on ET4000 boards if you have NVDI for ET4000. If you have an ET4000 board, get ou h - it corrects several bugs found in the VDI drivers supplied by the various board distributors. There is a Studio Photo topic - it's Cat 7 Top 25. Can we take this discussion over there? Thanks, Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 143 Sun Jan 23, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EST Robert, Sorry, but Studio Photo doesn't handle the 32K mode of the CDII card under Nu h ET4000. GEM-View (bah!) does, but Studio Photo does not. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 144 Sun Jan 23, 1994 COMPO at 06:10 EST Yes Al, you've said that before, and I find it most puzzling. I wonder how Gem- View does with 32K mode on other boards... I'll keep you informed as things develop. Thanks, Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 145 Sun Jan 23, 1994 D.SMITH200 [Dave] at 12:58 EST Robert, Gemview works in 32K & 16M modes on the Nova VME board. I don't have Nu h ET4000 yet, but will probably pick it up if it will correct the problem with SP. Al, where is this version of Nu h available? Haven't seen it advertised. Thanks, Dave ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 146 Sun Jan 23, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 16:25 EST Dave S. Nu h ET4000 is available from Grignif. But they say it only works on CDI and CDII. I'd pick it up if someone could test in on Nova as I surely miss Warp 9 screen acceleration. Did you get the new Nova 2.06 VDI. It's much faster than the one I was previously using. Screen refresh is faster in 640x480x256 than in ST medium without W9. John B. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 147 Sun Jan 23, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:18 EST Dave, Gribnif sells the NVDI ET4000 version that I bought. You could order online with a credit card, I'll bet. (Via e-mail, not in public messaging.) But Nu h or no Nu h, the 32K mode does not work with SP. Flat, Because of the hardware acceleration in the CDII card, adding Nu h ET4000 produces results at 640 X 480 X 256 (on the TT) that are much faster than my 16MHz ST in any ST mode. I know that's not a fair comparison, but the ST with either W9 or Nu h and the 16MHz chip is a quick little machine. Subjectively, 1024 X 768 X 256 on the CDII/Nu h setup matches the 16MHz ST in ST High w/W9. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 148 Mon Jan 31, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 02:32 EST Anyone know of the availability of a program called Chagall? Screen shots in December ST Format look impressive. Thanks, BK ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 149 Mon Jan 31, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 04:01 EST Brian, h saw Chagall last summer at Conneticut Atari Fest. It was very impressive. h seem to remember something about the Codeheads may be distributing it North America. That was a while ago, and I haven't heard anything lately. John B. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 150 Mon Jan 31, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 04:29 EST John, CT Fest? I was there. Don't remember seeing it, but then again didn't have all my faculties intact after the long drive. Thanks, BK ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 151 Thu Feb 17, 1994 Y.SIU [Yat@Lexicor] at 01:50 EST Hi folks! John saw Chagall at the Lexicor Stand at the Atari CT :). It wasn't official. Codeheads is the US distributor of Chagall, ask them about a status. I received my copy of Chagall from Trade IT in Germany directly back then at the CeBIT show, and John was hanging on long enough about the stand to have me show some future potential graphics photo editing software :) That was back then. If you are interested in similar Software then there is Studio Photo which is very inexpensive, and I dare say, Da's Picture which is discussed over at the Graphics RT. Cheers Yat @ Lexicof Lexicor ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 152 Mon Feb 21, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 22:20 EST So has anyone here tried Colorburst III which was recently uploaded here? ht works in 256 and True Color modes on the Falcon and is Geneva and Multitos compatible, but it does not seem to like Screenblasters extended resolutions :- [ It seems to be slightly buggy, but still is worth a look. I'd say its fairly comparable to True Paint. And its free! Too bad there are no docs included in the archive. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 153 Tue Feb 22, 1994 S.DEITZ at 04:21 EST David, I d/l'ed CB3 and played a little. The interface is very strange, but I suppose if I learned it it wouldn't be too bad. Docs would surely help though! I think I tried running it in a ScreenBlaster res of 864X512 16 colors and it ran... uh, I think that was under Geneva too. ----STEVE---- ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 154 Tue Feb 22, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:50 EST David, after your comments on CB 3 I went to teh libraries and D/L it. I dont' like the interface at all. The buttons are two small. I also had trouble with basic things as the fill icon. Impossible to know which is the hot spot. The color pallete is also odd as it is hard to pick a color. There is also a terrible time lag when CB3 is processing God knows what. And to top it off, the demo pic in the file resembles something done in Degas 7 years ago. I guess I didnt' like it much. John B. p.s. I hate giving bad reviews, someone worked very hard to write this program. p.p.s SysOps, There are no docs with the program and the about box states that this is a beta version. There is no mention of freeware, shareware....maybe it should be verified? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 155 Tue Feb 22, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:24 EST When I tried it in True Color 480 x 480 and in one of the extended rez 256 Color modes, it said I didn't have enough memory. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 156 Wed Feb 23, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 09:48 EST See Flat, I don't dispute anything you said about CBIII. Like previous versions of Colourburst (and there should be a couple in the GEnie libraries) it has some real problems. I had the same problem in finding the fill bucket hot spot that you described. But True Paint 1.00 through 1.02 also had its own share of problems. (I'm waiting to receive my copy of 1.03). I didn't mean to glowingly recommend CBIII, just to say that it was worth checking out. As for me, I'm still waiting for Chroma 24! ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 157 Thu Feb 24, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 05:48 EST David, I didnt' mean to imply that you loved the CB3 and I didn't :-) Just giving an opinion. Chroma 24, the features list that I have is incredibly impressive. Let's wait to see it run for real. :-) John B. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 158 Fri Feb 25, 1994 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 14:36 EST Hi - Is anyone besides me still using Degas Elite? Actually I just started using it, and ran into a strange thing. In trying to use the "slideshow" function, I've got a series of pics named: FACE1.PI1, FACE2.PI1, FACE3.PI1 etc.... For some reason it's showing me the pictures out of order. I wouldn't care except I've loaded the pictures into the screensaver animation program "Movies at Night" and it's showing them in the wrong order there too! I've checked the names for say any "o"s instead of "0"s and everything seems to be in order. Anyone know why this might be happening? Thanks - Tommy ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 159 Sat Feb 26, 1994 M.POCHE [Mick] at 00:23 EST Tommy, I believe the slideshower displays the pictures in the order that they were saved to the disk and names may not be important to the order they are displayed. Try using a file sorting utility (AUTOSORT4 for example. It will let you sort any files in any folder, not just the AUTO folder as the name implies) and put the pictures in the order that you want them displayed. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am (this time at least!) - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 160 Sat Feb 26, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 01:36 EST Tommy, I think those programs load the files according to their order of being copied (date maybe?). I noticed that myself on a couple of viewers. You might try moving all the files to new folder in the order you want. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 161 Sat Feb 26, 1994 J.MORRISON38 [~ Jimmo ~] at 02:01 EST Tommy... DE is probably showing them in "unsorted" order. Simply copy them to a new directory in the order you want them shown, and direct DE to show them from that directory. ~ Jimmo ~ ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 162 Sat Feb 26, 1994 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 05:16 EST Mick - Thanks. That explanation (about the displays of pics being the order they were saved to disk) sounds worth a try. Is AUTOSORT4 shareware, freeware, commercial product? Do you know if it's in the library here? - Tommy Joey and Jimmo - Good ideas about moving to another folder in the desired order. I'll give that a try too. :-> ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 163 Sat Feb 26, 1994 R.KING53 [Ron] at 09:19 EST Has anyone here used Crackart? I downloaded the version in the libraries. It looked interesting but even though it is supposed to load Degas, Spectrum, etc I could never get it to load anything but the demo pics that came with it. Atari ST Review magazine rated Crack Art as the BEST ST PD art program: Feb. 1993 issue ...incredible array of special effects ...every aspect of the program is perfect ...nothing can hold a candle to it ...block manipulation features include curve, bulge, fit-in and sphere are out of this world and quick, too! "Crack Art loads just about any picture format you throw at it and even runs on the TT!" ***** ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 164 Sat Feb 26, 1994 M.POCHE [Mick] at 13:45 EST Tommy - AUTOSORT4 is here in the libraries. The author asks for a $10 donation if you find the program useful. There are also several other shareware & commercial programs that offer this feature. Copying the files to a new folder in the order you want to view them will also work, as others have already said. - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 165 Sat Feb 26, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 14:26 EST Ron, CrackArt is one of the most effects featured ST low rez paint programs. It's also the best SPC to Degas converer I've seens. I stoped using it because I never paid the shareware fee. When you select "load" mouse right click will give you a choice of file formats you may load. John B. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 166 Sat Feb 26, 1994 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 20:19 EST Mick - Thanks. I tried the reloading thing and it worked like a charm, so I guess I won't need the AUTOSORT4. :-> ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 167 Sun Feb 27, 1994 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 10:52 EST Hi All, I'm looking for a paint program that is comparable to Degas Elite featurewise, but that will run in TT MED (at least) and beyond. Any recommendations? Thanks--Rob ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 168 Sun Feb 27, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:47 EST Studio Photo is worth looking into, Rob. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 169 Sun Feb 27, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 18:51 EST Rob, Prism Paint is the closest thing to Degas Elite. It basically works the exact same way except it has limited animation capabilites and supports TT resolutions amoung others. You can load GIF, PNT, IFF and Degas files into it as well as FLM files. Prism Paint II is avalaible but I personally find Prism Paint to be easier and faster to use. Come to think of it there may be a demo of Prism Paint II. Keep in mind Prism Paint II is actually Artis III so it's nothing like the original Prism Paint. Invision Elite is another great paint program that works in the TT resolutions. It handles images larger then the screen by allowing you to draw in a window. I use it and Prism Paint the most. Invision shines if you have large IMG files your using for DTP or something. Theres a Studio Photo demo in the library. I may be wrong but I think Studio Photo handles everything in 24bit color. You get a dithered look in TT Medium which I find distracting when your trying to do art work for the current resolution. It would be worth the download to check out the demo. I also like Phoenix 2. You can set up 3D scenes using Cybersculpt then render them in the resolution of your choice setting light sources and such. Works great on the TT! Even if your not too good in 3D modeling you can still render basic shapes. You can use it to create marble backgrounds and such or wrap a picture onto a ball or something. It can do in a couple minutes what would take a long time to do by hand. True Paint is worth looking into as well. It also handles drawing in a Window. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 170 Mon Feb 28, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:27 EST Joey, Studio Photo (on the CDII card) works perfectly in 256-color mode. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 171 Tue Mar 01, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 02:54 EST Al, it wasn't that it didn't work.:-) For example, I don't like the way it loads GIF files dithered in an 8bit mode. Maybe I overlooked something but I couldn't figure out how to load something into an 8bit Window. I could start an 8bit Window and draw in it, I just couldn't load an 8bit picture and make it look like the original. I want to edit images from Phoenix in GIF form. I can't see where this program would be useful for something like that unless you can force it into 8bit. Again, it may just be operator problems.:- ) Invision and Prism Paint are both more suited for editing resolution dependent images. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 172 Fri Mar 04, 1994 R.SCHILLING [Rob] at 21:16 EST Al & Joey, Thanks for the tips. I do already have Studio Photo. While I like the program, the TT MED dithering bothers me, so do some of the other limitations. Before the TT, I used to use Cyberpaint and Degas to do "Digital Portraiture" using scanned photos. Then output to color postscript via Pagestream. With the better res in TT MED (vs. ST LOW) I would like to do the same thing. The special effects in C-Paint and Degas Elite were really neat. That's what I'm looking for (outline with color, pixelize, crystalize etc.) With that in mind, what program(s) would be best? Thanks in advance for your advice. Rob BTW is there a Studio Photo topic here? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 173 Sat Mar 05, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 02:06 EST Rob, Cranach Studio does tons of stuff but it has the same dithering problem as Studio Photo. The Demo would be worth the download though. I haven't found anything that does what Cyberpaint does and still works like Degas. Seems like the software that supports filters and such all use's the 24bit True Color palette then dither the image to the screen resolution. Prism Paint works pretty good but it lacks the Outline and such found in Cyber Paint. I do believe they're working on Cyberpaint II but it got put on hold for a while. Seuratt III is suppose to do a lot of stuff but I don't think it was ever released. I know the programmer got a Falcon so he was planning on supporting all the resolutions. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 174 Sat Mar 05, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EST Rob, Thanks for explaining the Studio Photo situation in TT Med. I have never run Studio Photo (the demo) in 16-color mode, so I didn't realize it was doing any dithering. I'm waiting for word from Compo that SP will be revised to work in 32K color mode on the CDII card. Yes, the Compo area here has discussion of SP. Have Aladdin update your topic list. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 175 Sat Mar 05, 1994 COMPO at 20:07 EST Al - There isn't a COMPO area here... perhaps there should be. We've got topics scattered all over! I think the Studio Photo topic is in this same Category. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 176 Sun Mar 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:08 EST Robert, You are right. Compo needs a topic. Any word on whether Studio Photo can be reworked to function in 32K mode on the CDII? Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 177 Sun Mar 06, 1994 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 03:48 EST Hi - Can the Cyber animation program ( is that Cyberpaint?) save to Degas format? I'm using Movies at Night (the Warp 9 associated program) to do screen saver animations. It uses Degas format, but my Degas program won't show me real animation (only sort of a slow slide show) so I'm having to do a "best guess approach" in making the animations. If not Cyberpaint (or Cyberwhatever :->) is there another animation program that animates and can save to Degas? Thanks - Tommy ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 178 Sun Mar 06, 1994 COMPO at 03:58 EST Al - I still don't know whether the problem is in Studio Photo or in the VDI driver/NVDI ET4000. Our programmers are working on it. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 179 Sun Mar 06, 1994 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 09:36 EST Studio Photo is discussed right here in this Category, Topic 25. Nathan ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 180 Sun Mar 06, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 10:15 EST Robert (COMPO) if you need something, let me know in EMail. WE are here to please {grin}. ~~Brian..Written on Sunday 06 March 1994 at 11:12 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 181 Sun Mar 06, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 13:14 EST Tommy, CyberPaint is exactly what you need to make SEQ animations for Movies at Night. Good luck in finding it. I've seen used copies come up now and then in the for sale top. John B. P.S. Cyberpaint II is the best 2d paint/animation package ever written for the ST. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 182 Sun Mar 06, 1994 D.HELMICK [Dan] at 20:24 EST Rob, This suggestion is only a stopgap measure, which you may regard as being more trouble than it's worth. However, since you do have Studio Photo, you might want to try working on your image in that program, and save it in a True Color format. Then use GEM-View's suite of color dithering options to reduce it to 16 colors for TT Med! Admittedly, I haven't tried any reductions to 16 colors. But I have produced some amazing 256-color GIFs from Targa files generated in Phoenix in this fashion. Dan ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 183 Sun Mar 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:38 EST Thanks, Robert. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 184 Mon Mar 07, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 09:23 EST Why doesn't Gem-view handle Prism Paint format? It seems to handle all sorts of more obscure formats. What's the best way to convert GIF's to PNT format so I can show them with Warp 9's slideshow? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 185 Mon Mar 07, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 21:46 EST David, the Best way is to load the Gif in Prism Paint and then save it as a PNT. ;-) I really don't mean to be sarcastic. That is the best way to do it. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 186 Thu Mar 24, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 00:44 EST Have you seen those computer generated posters that are popular now where it looks abstract at first, but if you stare at it long enough and focus deep into it, a 3D image pops out? My dentist has one called Dinosaurs in his office. I've seen another one of the Statue of Liberty. Apparently there is a program for Atari computers that lets you make and print these images. The latest Atari Explorer Online mentions it, but doesn't say where you can get it. It's called STIS Stereoscopic Image System 1.00 by Phillip O'Neal. I don't know if it's STIS.LZH or STIS.ARC or STIS.ZIP but it doesn't seem to be here on GEnie. AEO says the program has been out since early '93. If anyone here has it or has access to it on another service, I sure would appreciate it if you'd upload it here. Thanks. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 187 Thu Mar 24, 1994 F-D-PERCIVAL [Fred P.] at 06:30 EST David, I just discovered that the INTERNET-RT has a file retrieval service. You give them the name of the file you want, and some other info, and they'll try to grab it off the Internet and upload it to their own GEnie Library. You might want to try them (M1405). ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 188 Fri Mar 25, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 00:49 EST Dave, I've been stumbling across those things for years! I saw the first one in Popular Mechanics about two years ago maybe. I actually got the Dino one for Christmas. If you find that program let me know, I'd like to try it out myself! ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 189 Fri Mar 25, 1994 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 13:03 EST David - Yes, I love those stereo 3D pictures. That program sounds great. Who mentioned it in AEO? Maybe we could drop them a line for more info. - Tommy ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 190 Sun Mar 27, 1994 V.VALENTI at 02:52 EST Does anybody have any suggestions for True-color paint programs for the Falcon. I want CromaStudio 24, but I need one now. I was thinking about getting TruePaint. Also, I am making a game and need to know a good file format, that is not commpessed, and use true-color so I could inport it into a game? Thanks, Vince ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 191 Sun Mar 27, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 08:09 EST V.VALENTI - ChromaStudio 24 (unless there's A DIFFERENT program called 'Chroma 24' or somesuch) has been cancelled (or at least put on indefinite hold). ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 192 Sun Mar 27, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 10:04 EST Gee Vince, your choices are pretty limited. I have TruePaint which I've never particularly liked, although the latest revision of it is a little bit easier to use. I also have Studio Photo which has some rudimentary painting tools, but is also kind of clunky to use and has "artifacting" trouble with certain kinds of files (GIF's for instance). Colorburst III is available here on GEnie. Try it. You won't like it. That leaves Prism Paint II. I've played with the demo but the real thing is too expensive for me. It also has some very weird and only marginally useful tools, IMHO, and is lacking some tools you might expect. Or you could try to find an imported copy of Chagall, which I don't know much about except that it, too, is very expensive. As far as I know, those are all your choices. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 193 Sun Mar 27, 1994 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 12:53 EST David, "Artifacting trouble" with Studio Photo? What's that? ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 194 Sun Mar 27, 1994 Y.SIU [Yat@Lexicor] at 13:15 EST Or DA's Picture could be a nice alternative too. Prism Paint II is fairly inexpensive..as an upgrade :) It's being discussed over at the Graphics RT about DA Picture and Prism Paint II. Cheers Yat @ lexicor ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 195 Sun Mar 27, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 14:49 EST Vince, As far as formats go, you've got some problems. Targa is a great uncompressed format, except it won't use 16-bit color (only 15-bit). If you don't mind losing the extra bit (and you WILL) you could use this, but not all programs support 15-bit Targas. Or you could go with 24-bit Targas. You wouldn't lost the extra bit, but the images would be 50% larger. With either 15- or 24-bit Targas, you'd need to shuffle bits around--a good assembly routine can do it in a fraction of a second. If you are just using the Targa as an intermediate step, this may be the best solution. I do not know of a true color format that properly supports 16-bit color that you would be able to use. ~dmj ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 196 Sun Mar 27, 1994 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 17:37 EST If you load a GIF into Studio Photo it will exhibit noticeable dithering that uou won't get by viewing the same pic in other programs such as Gemview. Worse than that try to save the pic and the dithering gets saved along with it. I don't think there's any problem with True Color pics though. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 197 Sun Mar 27, 1994 B.WILLIS3 [Bill] at 20:34 EST David, Ah, okay. I've noticed the dithering on GIFs. Even with solid colors that TT medium rez is perfectly capable of producing, Studio Photo will substitute dithered shades. Does the same problem occur when using SP with higher- resolution screen displays? I've never used it in anything more than TT low or medium rez. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 198 Sun Mar 27, 1994 COMPO at 23:01 EST Vince - We publish Studio Photo, an image retouching/editing/painting program. It uses a 24-bit palette internally, regardless of video display. It works perfectly on the Falcon; even has some perks on that machine. There's info and a demo in the File Library. If you need a true color (24-bit) image format that isn't compressed, I suggest TIFF. Studio Photo and most all other programs support it. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 199 Sun Mar 27, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 23:06 EST I believe Studio Photo handles everything internally at 24bit and dithers it to the current resolution. In other words, 24bit color is probably the only place you'll get a solid image even though your image is only 256 colors. I might actually buy it if it worked better in lower color modes. ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 200 Sun Mar 27, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 23:12 EST Compo, Sorry, Aladdin lag.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 201 Mon Mar 28, 1994 COMPO at 03:04 EST The reason you get dithering with Studio Photo is that you're using GIF, an 8- bit 256 color format. Studio Photo always uses a 24-bit palette internally, and the 8-bit palette isn't indexed. This procedure works well for loading an 8-bit image and making changes on it in 24-bit, and saving it out in 24-bit. You'll find that the display is clean when you use 24-bit images, or even 15/16-bit images. Robert ------------ Category 7, Topic 2 Message 202 Mon Mar 28, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:08 EST Has anyone seen, or know anything about PixArt? Distributed by FaST Club in England? John B. ------------