========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 14 Wed Aug 01, 1990 GRIBNIF at 14:36 EDT Sub: NeoDesk 3 - The Ultimate Desktop The topic area handles all messages concerning the NeoDesk 3 desktop replacement package by Gribnif Software. 201 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 1 Sun Oct 31, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 15:24 EST Hey all, I'm not quite sure wheter to post this here or in Geneva, so here goes. I just purchased Geneva last week and NeoDesk yesterday. It's a wonderful combination, far better than many aspects of M-TOS. One small question though. I notice that in the Geneva manual, several screen shots have NeoDesk-type windows with 3D gadgets. I can get Geneva-style 3D, but not NeoDesk. Is there something I've missed, or are these screen shots of the coming NeoDesk 4? So far, most everything I've used with this combo works. Calamus SL would not run properly with M-TOS, but sure does in Geneva! Thanks, Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 2 Sun Oct 31, 1993 P.BULLOCK2 [PETER] at 15:38 EST Dan, Tom, Thanks for the input. I seem to have solved the pagestream/neodesk problem by taking the fastload off on just the printer drivers. I guess it was memory fragmentation. I not sure why this solved the problem, and frankly, I don't care as long as it works. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 3 Sun Oct 31, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:02 EST Tom, The version of NeoDesk you bought can be no higher than 3.03. That's the latest commercial version out. (NeoDesk 4 won't be out till around December) You need to run at least version 3.04 with Geneva. There should be a patch program on the Geneva disk. Use that to upgrade your 3.03 (?) to 3.04 and get all the neat 3d Neo stuff. I don't remember if it is on the Geneva disk, but I'm sure someone here will correct me if I'm wrong. Wait till you get used to the combo of G/NeoD, you will enjoy your system more than ever! Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 4 Mon Nov 01, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 01:55 EST Tom, You need to replace the NeoDesk .RSC file found on the Geneva disk to get the 3D buttons. John E. Gniewkowski Editor, GEnieLamp S ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 5 Mon Nov 01, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 17:23 EST Tom Jr., Once you've patched to NeoDesk 3.04, you still need to use the replacement resource files that are on the second Geneva disk in the SRSC.SFX file. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 6 Mon Nov 01, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 20:16 EST Hey all, About my previous post saying I couldn't get the 3D "look" out of NeoDesk. Dopey me didn't update the .RSC files as per the instructions. They work fine. Sorry. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 7 Mon Nov 01, 1993 A.CULLUM1 at 22:45 EST Hi, I finally broke down the other day, and bought myself a Falcon. I got it home, hooked everything up (and after a few setbacks) got everything to run, only to discover that I cannot delete folders under NeoDesk. All the files within a folder will delete just fine, but when it gets to a folder, I get error -34 ("Path not found", or something to that extent) I can delete the folder anywhere else. It works from the built in desktop, or by switching to Geneva and using the file selector to select and delete the folder. I have booted up with nothing but Jar10 and Neoload in the auto folder, and it still gives me the same error. Has anyone else had a similar problem? Or are there known problems with NeoDesk and the Falcon? Any help would be appreciated, Andrew Cullum (btw, its NeoDesk 3.04 and TOS 4.04) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 8 Mon Nov 01, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:17 EST Oh yeah! (sorry Tom Jr.) I forgot I forgot to mention the .RSC files! Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 9 Mon Nov 01, 1993 DMJ [dmj] at 23:22 EST Andrew: You've found a "feature" of the new TOS. Atari removed a feature from the new TOSes that NeoDesk depended on to delete folders. There's nothing you can do about it. I believe Dan said he was fixing it in NeoDesk 4, about which he's been very [sensibly] tight-lipped. -dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 10 Tue Nov 02, 1993 A.CULLUM1 at 01:20 EST Thanks for the quick reply. Is there any word on when NeoDesk 4 is due out? ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 11 Tue Nov 02, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 05:42 EST Tom, Matt had the answer. Those are screen shots from the ST here, and even in monochrome the look of Geneva is wonderifulous. On the TT, in 256 color mode, it's outstanding. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 12 Tue Nov 02, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:39 EST A.Collum1 (sorry, I didn't get your first name), There's a bug in the Falcon TOS that causes this. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 13 Tue Nov 02, 1993 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 18:45 EST Mike Allen, >> Well, my problems seem to be strictly NeoDesk related. >> They happen even without Geneva. No corner clocks, or >> calculators. >> >> It really seems to be some sort of NeoDesk/Warp9/GDOS >> interaction when using certain combinations of accs. >> Having NeoQueue, STeno and the Warp9_CP all installed >> will cause the problem. I use NeoDesk (v3.04), STeno (v2.00), and Warp9_CP (v3.80), and G+Plus (v1.5) all in my usual setup and don't have any problems like you described with Calligrapher 3 so they're probably nnot the source of your problem. I -can- get Calligrapher to bomb if I call up the XControl Panel and try to change the location of the Clipboard using the Clipboard Manager CPX (which I've since disabled). My guess is that your problem is either caused by GDOS (a good bet since Speedo GDOS is problem-free) or NeoQueue (I'm using OutBurST for my print spooler except the author recommends turning it off with Calligrapher since a spooler does no good with it). Since you really don't need GDOS in order for Calligrapher 3 to work, I'm assuming you load it to support some other application. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 14 Tue Nov 02, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:27 EST Al, "wonderifulous"?!? I like it. (_and_ I'll get some milage out of it, too!) ;-) Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 15 Thu Nov 04, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:09 EST Andrew, What you are hitting is a known bug in the Falcon TOS. Atari is aware of the problem, and plans to fix it for a future version of TOS. I also plan to change NeoDesk 4 so that it will not hit this problem. Right now, there is no way around this other than to use another utility to delete the folder. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 16 Sat Nov 06, 1993 W.ORTIZ [Will] at 07:41 EST Matt, What's up! My DATAlite parameters are the following: Abs. Minimum - BOOT Act. Minimum - BPB Average - DFREE Only legal sectors and Save all boot sectors are also selected. Should I change them? I get a little nervous doing that. I'll change it if it works. P.S. I noticed when I do a 'Show Info' of my compressed partition it comes up with the correct compressed information...For example, I have a 55 Meg Partition with a compressed maximum of 110 Meg. NeoDesk 3 (3.03) will report the total compressed maximum. It sees that, but when I try using the recoverable trashcan it won't allow it. Hmmm... Will W.ORTIZ ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 17 Sat Nov 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:47 EST Will, The trashcan won't work with extended partition sizes. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 18 Sat Nov 06, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 21:04 EST Will, Hiya! I was just going to post that I have the same settings (except I keep the save all boot sectors-off) and that I have no idea why the trashcan works for me and not you. THEN, I read Al's post. I guess because I don't keep any partitions larger than 16 meg (when uncompressed) the system handles it well. If i remember correctly, there are several programs that run into trouble with extended (ie over 16 meg) partition sizes. Al's info is reliable. I wonder if this is addressed in NeoDesk 4 ??? Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 19 Mon Nov 08, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:07 EST Matt & Will, I intend to up the maximum partiton size in the next version of the trashcan. Right now, you can only read partitions with sectors of 512 bytes (i.e.: a 16 Meg or less drive). Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 20 Mon Nov 08, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 19:41 EST Thanks Dan. I don't have a problem with the trashcan/16 meg limit, but it's nice to know that it's on your list! Matt R. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 22 Mon Nov 08, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 23:35 EST Dan, I hope there is a instal device option in Neo 4, it seems to be one of the best features in Tos 4.04. Any release dates for 4? Bman ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 23 Tue Nov 09, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:39 EST Dan, TOS 1.04 and higher use 512-byte sectors for 32-meg partitions, not just 16- meg ones. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 24 Fri Nov 12, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 00:23 EST Al, Matt (or whomever) Thanks for helping me with the "3D look". I figured it out, but didn't post before everyone else jumped in to help. This is truly a wonderful platform in terms of support. Al, in 256 color mode (using Crazy Dots), my corner clock doesn't work right. It's all bunched up into a small area near the "File" menu. Anyone else have this problem, and is it fixable? I notice similar kinds of things in other clock programs, too. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 25 Fri Nov 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:32 EST Tom, I use the corner clock that is part of Idle 2.2, and it works without a hitch. Because I need quite a few CPXes to control things, I don't use the NeoDesk CP at all, deferring to Xcontrol. I've found Idle 2.2 very well behaved, once I fixed a small (ahem!) mistake I as making in the way I was using CDII. (I was running BOTH the CD software and NVDI, and that really played a game on the setup here!) Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 26 Fri Nov 12, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 21:25 EST Al, Thanks for the info. I do have Idle 2.2, and recently switched to TTArtist for my screen saver. Since I've had Geneva and NeoDesk, it operates kinda funny (i.e. pops up when I choose another accessory, then pops up the one I originally choose). Haven't nailed down why, so I don't want to place the blame on Geneva and/or NeoDesk. Also, thanks for the info on CD software and NVDI. I'm itching to get NVDI to speed up the screen. When I buy it, I'll be asking how to use Speedo with it. Well, anyway, to stay on topic, I'll stick with Idle, but I must say, Geneva and NeoDesk is an excellent combination. I really like 'em. Works with darn near everything. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 27 Sat Nov 13, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 00:27 EST Does Neodesk work in True colro modes? ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 28 Sat Nov 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:01 EST Tom, TTArtist misbehaves no matter what else is running, with the same symptons here are you describe. It's great for what it does right, but it's not reliable as a screen saver. I use it as a diversion. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 29 Sat Nov 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:10 EST Spud, It works in 15-bit color. Dan Wilga, famed creator of NeoDesk , runs it that way at the shows. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 30 Sun Nov 14, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 14:47 EST Al, I just downloaded V1.5 of TTArtist. Seems to be more solid. Doesn't appear to exhibit the same problems as before. OK, OK, I've only had the thing for 20 minutes but...so far, so good. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 31 Mon Nov 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:32 EST Tom, I've noticed one or two unfriendly things with the latest TTArtist: It slows down the modem port a lot (got 6 cps during a background transfer from GEnie!), and it did not want to execute one of my CodeKeys macros. (The macro probably needs to be changed to allow TTArtist time to disengage.) I have to say, watching the screen draws at 1280 X 960 X 16 colors when TTArtist is running provides a new definition of the term "HOLY COW!" Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 32 Mon Nov 15, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 12:38 EST Spud Boy, Since version 3.03, NeoDesk has worked with any video mode available (even 24-bit.) You just have to make sure you are using VDI graphics mode. Tom, The NeoDesk corner clock will not work with any of the Crazy Dots board's color modes right now. Bman, At this point, it looks as though NeoDesk 4 is going to be pushed back somewhat. I am still working very hard on it, in and amongst Geneva updates. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 33 Mon Nov 15, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 21:16 EST Al, Thanks for the input. I really like TTArtist, really rivals After Dark. Maybe we'll see some other modules for it in the future. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 34 Mon Nov 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:33 EST Dan and others, It's worth pointing out that in NeoDesk 3.03-3.04, the VDI check box is a little sluggish, and tends to deselect itself a couple of times when you first set up a new video mode. Keep checking it, and it will stick after a while. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 35 Tue Nov 16, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 02:28 EST -\ At this point, it looks as though NeoDesk 4 is going \- -\ to be pushed back somewhat. I am still working very \- -\ hard on it, in and amongst Geneva updates. \- Keep at it, Dan! I vote 'Quality' above 'Quick' any day! John ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 36 Tue Nov 16, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 23:55 EST John G - > I vote 'Quality' above 'Quick' any day! Yeah! Me too! (As long as it isn't "RSN")... Dan - More Icons? Have you posted a feature list in this area? If not, could you? I'd be interested to see what enhancements Neo 4 will offer... - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 37 Sat Nov 20, 1993 R.BUSH [Richard Bush] at 03:16 EST I hope NeoDesk 4 fixes the problems 3 has on my Falcon. I've already mentioned the floppy change problem I'm having in the Geneva topic. Another problem is the reorder items function. My Falcon always crashes if I try to use it. Well! This is curious. With Works running, I went back to the desk top and tried to crash the Falcon by changing disks. I accessed the drive as A and as B, updated the window with the escape key, closed the window and reopened it with the new disk. It wouldn't crash. Very curious. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 38 Sat Nov 20, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:10 EST Richard, Until you can get some sort of reliable resort working, you might try AUTOSORT, which is in the libraries here. It resorts any folder, not just the AUTO folder. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 39 Sun Nov 21, 1993 R.BUSH [Richard Bush] at 03:20 EST >Until you can get some sort of reliable resort working, you might try >AUTOSORT, which is in the libraries here. It resorts any folder, not >just the AUTO folder. Thanks! I'll look for it. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 40 Mon Nov 22, 1993 B.CONNOLLY1 [Bud] at 01:29 EST When I run a program from NeoDesk, the CPU speed is set to 8 Mhz. And when I return to the NeoDesktop, it's back to 16 Mhz - cache. I just bought a Mega STe and I am using the same external hard drives that I had used with a 1040 ST. NeoDesk was originally installed/configured on that machine. I have looked at all of the docs, readme's and manuals, but I just don't see anything that would allow programs to run at 16 Mhz. I also tested several programs from the TOS 2.06 desktop, cpu speed stayed at 16 Mhz - cache. What do I have to do to get NeoDesk to run apps at 16 Mhz? Bud ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 41 Mon Nov 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:48 EST Bud, The CPU speed is normally set by a flag that NeoDesk looks for when you install the program (as an "installed application") using the menu item with that name. Check every program that seems to be misbehaving to see if the CPU speed is, indeed, set to 8 MHz instead of 16 MHz in the dialog that pops up when you access that menu. Get back to us after you check that out, and we'll see what else we can come up with if it doesn't work. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 42 Mon Nov 22, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 14:03 EST Al, Yes, the VDI box is a bit buggy. I plan to fix that when I get to that dialog . TJ, As I've said before, I don't want to post a feature list until I have finished implementing them all. I do not want to create "vapor features." Richard, Most likely, the problem with disk swaps that you are having is also the reason for the crash with Reorder Items. This has to be a problem with TOS. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 43 Mon Nov 22, 1993 B.CONNOLLY1 [Bud] at 21:11 EST Al, Thanx! That got things going. I just knew the answer was right under my nose! I ran Install Application on all of my NeoDesktop applications and I keep 16 Mhz - Cache now. Looking at the NEODESKM.INF file, there are 15 lines for Applications. I had 11 installed, they were all: flags=16 before the change, and flags=29 after. (They are in DECIMAL, right?) Anybody got a bitmap for these flags? Next, how do I setup programs that I double click on from the directory window to run? Bud ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 44 Tue Nov 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:20 EST Bud, Whenever NeoDesk runs an application, it looks up its INF data (held in memory) for the flags you've set for apps, no matter how the app is run. So any application you set up as an installed app will be treated the way you chose no matter how it is run from within NeoDesk. If the app is not specified in the INF file, NeoDesk uses the defaults in the SET PREFERENCES menu. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 45 Thu Nov 25, 1993 B.CONNOLLY1 [Bud] at 13:56 EST Al, The 'SET PREFERENCES' menu? I couldn't see anything there concerning CPU speed or the Blitter. Anyway, everthing seems to be running at 16 Mhz now. thanx for the help Bud ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 46 Fri Nov 26, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 01:35 EST Bud - I don't think the MHz control is in the "Set Preferences..." It's under "Install Applications..." - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 47 Fri Nov 26, 1993 R.BUSH [Richard Bush] at 02:33 EST > Most likely, the problem with disk swaps that you are having is >also the reason for the crash with Reorder Items. This has to be a >problem with TOS. Then why does it only do it in NeoDesk? I've found that if I run a program between disk changes I usually get no crash and sometimes I can change the disk all I want if something's running in the background, but usually not. I have the earliest Falcon TOS on a production machine since the serial no. appears to be #2. I suppose it's possible there is a problem with that earliest TOS. Has anyone else had a problem? ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 48 Fri Nov 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:44 EST Bud, My eyes are pretty tired. Choose an application, then drop down Install Application under the Options menu; that's where the settings are for the CPU speed and so on. (Thanks, T.J. Saw your note after realizing I had messed up.) Sorry! Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 49 Fri Nov 26, 1993 R.THUROW [Rich] at 14:08 EST What 3d look are you talking about--just the alerts and windows--or am I missing something? Rich ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 50 Sat Nov 27, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 03:37 EST Al - I feel privelidged. I actually corrected the #1 NeoDesk Guru (apart, of course, from the guru that wrote it). - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 55 Mon Nov 29, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 17:24 EST Bud, The bitmap of the Install Applications flags is likely to change for the next version, so it's undocumented. You can assume that changing them all to the same value will work for now, though. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 56 Tue Dec 14, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 19:53 EST Is there a way to disable NeoDesk's desktop pattern? I d/led DESKVIEW and it makes beautiful desktop patters from GIF files, but Neodesk writes right over them! Is there any hope? John ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 57 Wed Dec 15, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 01:28 EST Dan et al - I am thinking about getting an AlberTT card for my new MSTe. (Sorry, would _love_ a CDII, but alas... the $) Just read a post that indicated NeoD 3 doesn't work so well with the AlberTT. Do you have any idea if 3.4 fares any better? Will NeoD 4 take care of the problem? 'Long green' is pretty tight these days, and the addition of an AlberTT card will also mean the purchase of a new monitor, but as much as I would love the equiv. of TT med rez., I _don't_ want to give up my NeoD/Geneva combo!!! Any info welcome. Thanks, Matt BTW - how's rel. 003 of Geneva coming along? Available soon? ;-) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 58 Wed Dec 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:31 EST John, You mean DeskPic, maybe? You can blank out the Neo pattern, but it still overwrites the pattern that was there before. I've used DeskPic when running Geneva without a desktop, to great effect. Matt, With a good graphics card, you'll find that the "equivalent of TT medium" won't be used very often, since 800X600 and 1024X768 are a lot handier. I also like 1280X960, the TT High mode, in 16 colors. :) Monitors are not expensive these days. You'll be able to find a Super VGA monitor for less than $300. I'd recommend a step up to a flat-screen 15-inch monitor, which actually has a lot more viewable area than a standard 14-inch monitor. If you are at all interested in graphics, the CDII card is a far better choice than the AlberTT. As Michelin used to say, "It's not how much you pay for a tire, it's how often you pay it" -- so if you buy an inadequate graphics board and then realize you need to buy a good one instead, you have paid a lot more than you would have if you'd just bought the better one to start with. NeoD works just fine with the CDII. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 59 Wed Dec 15, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 21:10 EST Al, All your points are good ones, and well taken. The one problem remains though, and I'll tell you the same thing I used to tell my (now) ex-wife... It may be $xxx.xx and well worth it, but you've got to _have_ it to spend it! Unfortunately, the bucks are slow coming in, and quick to leave these days. (Lost a political battle at work... the winner managed to cut my salary almost in half!) My thinking went something like this... pick up the AlberTT now, so I can use _some_ color on screen when doing DTP work/graphics, and when (if?) an 040 Falcon with 'external' keyboard comes out, or the company politics change again, go for the Falcon or a TT with a nice card. Who knows. I have to admit, I like the separate keyboard on the MSTe, but I never really minded the one in the 1040. Hmmm, wonder what I could get for this 'less than a month old' MSTe, my SC 1224 and SM 147 to put towards a Falcon and new monitor _now_? (Most likely... not enough!) ;-) BTW - I've seen the CDII card in action at the Ct. Atarifest, and your right! It _is_ teriffic. Still dreaming... Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 60 Wed Dec 15, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 23:21 EST John G - Let me look about the desk pattern. I'll be right back... No way to outright disable it, as far as I can see. You can make it "black," but I don't think that will help. I have a feeling the program you are using replaces the TOS desktop pattern... something NeoDesk is also doing. Therefore, I bet they'd interfere. But Dan or Al would know better than I would. - T.J. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 61 Thu Dec 16, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 01:30 EST Matt, See my message in the other topic. The AlberTT works absolutely fantastically with Geneva, NeoDesk 3 and both together! It's my default setup (although screen redraws are the tinyest bit slower using Geneva and NeoDesk) I must take exception with my friend from the north! I was in the same boat as you, and I took a hard look at my requirements for graphics. What I had ST HI was _much_ too small for what I was doing (wordprocessing - not wide enough, Diagram drawing in MyDraw - couldn't see enough of the page). Was I heavily into looking at 24 bit Targa pictures? No. Did I need to produce stunning 36 bazzillion color pictures? No. Would I like a more colorful display and a bigger desktop, while having the ability to view some graphics using ImageCopy2 YES! My AlberTT was the best purchase I have recently made for my ST, it has breathed new life into a rather drab and cramped computing environment (multitasking on a 1024x768 screen is to DIE FOR!) If I were to wait until I needed, or could afford a CDII, Nova, or Cyrel, I would still be struggling through with a cramped, drab system. As it is now, I'm in seventh heaven. Right now, I don't have the need for a high end graphics board, hey my printer only does one color as it is! John ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 62 Thu Dec 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:43 EST T.J., You're right about the pattern. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 63 Fri Dec 17, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 00:17 EST John, Thanks for the responses, here, and in the AlberTT topic. (BTW, I did read it!) Makes me feel better knowing I wouldn't have to give up either Geneva or NeoDesk. I 'sorta got accustomed, ya know? As for the slight slowdown with redraws... I can live with it. It sounds weird, but it seems the MSTe is slower than my old 520 STm with the AdSpeed 16 in it. Of course, I have more AUTO folder prg's now, and the Geneva overhead. The purchase won't be immediate, but it is quickly approaching. BTW, which monitor are you using with the card? (Take this to the AlberTT area so we can give the Syscop and Gribnif folks a break) Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 64 Mon Dec 20, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:00 EST John G., Sorry, but there is no way to have a program like the one you refer to work with NeoDesk 3 as it is right now. Matt, As far as I know, the only real problem with the AlberTT lies in color setting. NeoDesk does not properly change the color registers. The solution is to use Atari's control panel instead. If there was something else in one of the posts you saw somewhere else, please let me know. Oh, BTW, you'll have to make sure that NeoDesk is set for VDI mode (3.03 or newer) in order to use the AlberTT in 24-bit mode. Rel 003 is just about done. Every time I think I have it almost done one more small thing comes up... Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 65 Mon Dec 20, 1993 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 20:12 EST Dan, COuld you give a quick explanation of the VDI mode? What do we gain by having it on, or what penalities do we pay? John ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 66 Mon Dec 20, 1993 DMJ [dmj] at 20:49 EST John, My understanding is that NeoDesk uses Line-A calls, mostly, to keep screen drawing fast. With a graphics card, this is a no-no, so the "VDI" option forces NeoDesk to use the VDI--which WILL work. Using the VDI when the Line-A is available will result in a slower screen (unless you have NVDI?) but using Line-A when it's not available can cause some real problems with your screen. This is, of course, just the way I remember it. -dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 67 Mon Dec 20, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:01 EST Thanks Dan, I think the color settine 'problem' was what I heard referred to. I'll try to find the post, and let you know if it's something different. Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 68 Tue Dec 21, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:33 EST DMJ, I use the VDI mode with NVDI and the CDII. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 69 Tue Dec 21, 1993 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 18:14 EST Hello. I have a question about NEODESK. Does neodesk allow for more than 6 desk accessories to be used ? Thanks in advance. Mike a ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 70 Tue Dec 21, 1993 T.FITZPATRI8 [Tom] at 21:39 EST > Hello. I have a question about NEODESK. Does neodesk allow for more > than 6 desk accessories to be used ? Thanks in advance. Mike Negative. If you're interested in a list of NeoDesk features you need only take a virtual stroll over to the library featuring press releases--search for NEODESK. If you are only interested in increasing your DA capacity, not a replacement desktop, look in the same place for the features of Multidesk and Geneva. Multidesk is a DA which can itself load and run DAs; Geneva is a full-blown cooperative multitasking operating system which, as a side benefit, bypasses the six DA limit and allows DAs to be loaded and unloaded on-the-fly. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 71 Wed Dec 22, 1993 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 04:06 EST thanks Tom. If i recall, Toad is selling Neodesk AND geneva together, or the other way around. Gee, I've been nice and not naughty, maybe Santa will............ Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 72 Wed Dec 22, 1993 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 18:35 EST Hello. I just ordered neodesk 3 and Geneva. I was wondering if you all could recommend any neodesk files ( icons, etc.) for someone starting out with NEo and Geneva. I have a 4 meg STfm with 130Meg hard drive. I use MIDI programs (Notator Logic),; flash 2.2, atariworks and pagestream mostly. I will be running mono, but use the Sc1224 monitor sometimes. Also, I use IDLE screen saver; I understand that Geneva has a screen saver. I won't be programming or anything like that; I just want to get up and running and have a fun time too. Thanks in advance for your experience and suggestions. Mike P.S. I'm kind of an analog type of guy, (No aladdin,etc,) don't like to be too automated, you know :) a ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 73 Thu Dec 23, 1993 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 01:50 EST Hey Mike! Good to hear that you're grabbing Neo and Geneva! Before you go ANY farther, pick up the file "Secrets Of NeoDesk", written by the amazing and multi-talented Al Fasoldt! I don't have the file # on hand, but it's in the ST library. (I'm sure someone here will supply the number! ). The file name is NEOSECRT.* or something. A search of files by A.FASOLDT will turn it up. This document, combined with the manual, will show you so many wonderful features of NeoDesk that you'll wonder how you ever did without it!! (I know that this isn't exactly what you were asking, but I had to give you this tip. I'm sure I'll not be the only one, either!) Rob ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 74 Thu Dec 23, 1993 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 03:29 EST Great Rob! I'll DL it right now ! BTW, will neodesk/geneva pay my taxes this year ? :) I can dream, I guess. Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 75 Thu Dec 23, 1993 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 03:42 EST Here's Al's file for others interested: ********************************* Number: 26714 Name: NEOSECRT.LZH Address: A.FASOLDT Date: 921128 Approximate # of bytes: 37760 Number of Accesses: 402 Library: 18 Description: This detailed text provides inside tips on using Gribnif Software's versatile replacement desktop interface for the ST, STe, Mega STe and TT computers. Topics include: How to edit the NEODESK.INF file to add extra power to NeoDesk, effective ways of performing "drag-and-drop" operations, control of the system environment, iconizing running programs, using NeoDesk's recoverable trash can (and creating your own version of a safer recoverable trash can), along with many tricks that can make NeoDesk macros more effective. Major operations are fully explained. Use latest version of QUESTER's LZH program to extract Keywords: NEODESK,DESKTOP,ICONS,MACROS,TOS,NEWDESK,SECRETS ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 76 Thu Dec 23, 1993 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 04:39 EST Mike: Glad to be able to help! I've got a completely macro'd and NeoDesk- ified ST, all in no time at all, thanks to the great NeoDesk manual and "Secrets...". As for the taxes, maybe we can convince Al to do another doc... "Secrets of Income Tax"??? (and yes, I'm also waiting for a guy in a red suit with a big white beard to come down my chimney, as well! ) Rob ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 77 Thu Dec 23, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:40 EST Mike, No. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 78 Thu Dec 23, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 13:16 EST DMJ, RE: Line A & VDI... You got it! :) --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 79 Fri Dec 24, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:00 EST Mike, No, Geneva doesn't come with a screen saver. You can use any screen saver. (I use Idle 2.2 because it works with my graphics card, but Warp 9 and all its EOS modules work fine for those without a card.) NeoDesk and Geneva don't need any auxiliary programs and utilities. There are many icon files here on GEnie with supplemental NIC (NeodeskICon) files, and you might grab some of those. A small piece of advice: Try using Aladdin. :) Al BTW, "Secrets of the Income Tax" is a real shortie. When you gotta pay, you gotta pay... ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 82 Sat Dec 25, 1993 J.KOLLER2 [John] at 08:51 EST When is NeoDesk 4 scheduled to be released, if you are able to tell. I just got my Falcon and have been trying to make NeoDesk work properly. But no luck, I'll have to be satisfied with the NewDesk on TOS until then. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 84 Sat Dec 25, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 17:19 EST Al, You are BAD! You knew that I'd just HAVE to have those 2500 NeoDesk Icons. Well, guess my phone line is going to be tied up for a while. BTW, You NewDesk folks can also benefit from Al's upload if you have the NewDesk Icon Editor from SDS. Among other things it allows the import of .NIC icons. Thanks for the Christmas present, Al. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 3:18 PM Mountain Time Saturday, December 25, 1993 ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 87 Sun Dec 26, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 00:56 EST Al, Thanks for the uploads! What a guy! It must have taken ages to compile them. >NewDesk folks can also benefit from Al's upload if you have the >NewDesk Icon Editor from SDS. I must concur with my fellow sysop, these items can be great with the Icon Editor CPX (category 2, topic 39). As an owner of Neodesk, I converted a lot of my icon files for Newdesk. ~~Brian..Written on Sunday 26 December 1993 at 00:43 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 88 Sun Dec 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:34 EST John, I'm not speaking for Gribnif, but I can probably safely tell you that Neo 4 is being worked on and will be out before long. I wasn't aware of problems with Neo 3.xx and the Falcon. What difficulties are you having? Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 89 Sun Dec 26, 1993 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 12:22 EST Matt, I would not use anything less than 17"'s with an Albert TT. Neodesk 3.03 does run and works to a great extent, but due to some minor glitches when running it in 1024x768 I have retired it for the time being. Maybe NeoDesk 4 will resolve all the incompatibilities. Dan, I mentioned this problem to Jay and if you two have been in contact with each other, I would say the problem will in the near future be resolved. Gerald would 3.04 be more stable ? >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 17, Topic 14 >Message 64 Mon Dec 20, 1993 >GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:00 EST > >John G., > > Sorry, but there is no way to have a program like the one you refer to work >with NeoDesk 3 as it is right now. > >Matt, > > As far as I know, the only real problem with the AlberTT lies in color >setting. NeoDesk does not properly change the color registers. The solution is >to use Atari's control panel instead. If there was something else in one of >the posts you saw somewhere else, please let me know. Oh, BTW, you'll have to >make sure that NeoDesk is set for VDI mode (3.03 or newer) in order to use the >AlberTT in 24-bit mode. > > Rel 003 is just about done. Every time I think I have it almost done one >more small thing comes up... > >Dan >---------- > Dan, The Albert TT doesn't have a 24 bit mode that I know of. I am the one who mentioned some problems with NeoDesk 3.03. The problems could have stemmed from the order in which Jarxxx ran. What I have experienced is on the unload to execute I get a blank screen and have to reboot the computer. I have VDI highlighted. Also Jarxxx is set to 10. I have attempted to do some other things and will relate my experiences. -When saving a high rez INF file screen goes blank and I need to reboot. -I have increased Jarxxx to 20 and opted to keep Neodesk active when running a prg. Screen blanks, need to reboot. -If I run the Jarxxx prg set at 20, when running KSpread 4 from the built in desktop... bus error 3 bombs. When attempting to use Neodesk I run it from the desktop. Also this is the order I have my auto folder set up in. G+ Plus 1.5 Jar10 1024x768 (High rez driver) Warp 9 3.75 UIS III 3.32 Dongle Neoload 3.03 Maybe 3.04 has rectified these problems, or maybe neoload should run before the high rez driver? I may attempt that repositioning. Until that time though I mourn the loss of Neodesk, the added resolution more than makes up for its loss. Gerald ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 92 Mon Dec 27, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:24 EST I checked my Cookie Jar contents the other night and found 18 (!) cookies. This reminds us all that a setting of 10 may not be enough these days. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 95 Mon Dec 27, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:13 EST Mike, shouldn't that be...... A. None. That's a harware problem...... Al, How does one check the cookie jar? ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 97 Tue Dec 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:14 EST John B., Ah, the Cookie Jar checker! Download SYSINFO (version 3?) and it will do that and much, much, much more. An essential utility. Matt, I dunno why, but my son told me on Christmas Day about finding a raccoon in his doorway in Brooklyn. (Yes, Brooklyn.) He called the cops, since there was a question of whether the raccoon was rabid, and the cops came and then called the Animal Control Unit. Two guys with dart guns came, got on either side of the animal, and fired. They hit each other. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 99 Tue Dec 28, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 14:29 EST Al, BAHAAHA!! You said it, not me Gerald, Hm. I definitely don't know of any reason in NeoDesk for that behavior. I'll take to Jay about it. John Koller, NeoDesk 4 should be out in March, at this point. We have just sent out newsletters to all of our registered users. NeoDesk 3.03 should work just fine on the Falcon. What problems are you having? If you have an older 3.xx, you cna upgrade with the patch programs in the GEnie libraries. John G., Damian's explanation of Line A vs VDI mode was correct. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 100 Tue Dec 28, 1993 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 21:18 EST Dan, juST a little request for ND4 ;^) The old version of Calamus allowed two (thats 2!) monitors to be used at once, but the new SL does not. Is th there any possibility that this might be an _option_ under the new, inc version of NeoDesk......ie.....use my CD driven monitor _and_ a S**** monitor viewing another part of the desktop to monitor multitasking etc? The keyboard would only control the main screen, of course, the small monitor would only be a 'viewport'......what do ya think....hhhmmm? ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 101 Tue Dec 28, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 23:09 EST 1. What's the status of the Neodesk/Screenblaster fix? 2. What's the status of the Falcon delete folder fix? Will we have to wait til' March? ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 103 Wed Dec 29, 1993 J.TOWLER1 [John] at 02:55 EST Does anybody know of any way to convert NEWDESK icons to NeoDesk 3 format? - John ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 104 Wed Dec 29, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 03:27 EST David, What is the problem with NeoD and ScreenBlaster? I haven't noticed a problem with NeoD while using 1538 x 832i x 16 on my Falcon030. I also checked the USE VDI option in Neo for this rez. Hmm... --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 105 Wed Dec 29, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:42 EST Frank, You're right. MTOS is a great ambulance service. Al John, Use Icon Manager to save the Newdesk icons as RSC files, then open the RSC files up in a window using the Neo icon editor. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 106 Wed Dec 29, 1993 R.CARPENTE18 [Bob C.] at 19:18 EST Dan, I got the newsletter advertising Neodesk 4 and I just have a couple of questions. 1) Will Neodesk 4 include the ability to load background pictures for non-ST resolutions (i.e.: TT medium or graphics cards)? 2) Do I need to save the coupon that you included with the newsletter if I plan to upgrade later? No offense, but I like to upgrade once the product is shipping. Bob Carpenter ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 107 Wed Dec 29, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 21:00 EST Newsletter? I didn't get no stinkin' newsletter???? (Out here on the east coast...) Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 108 Wed Dec 29, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:01 EST Perhaps I should have said its a Geneva/Neodesk/Screenblaster problem. The problem is that with all three of those in the Auto folder, only 2 color modes are accessible. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 109 Thu Dec 30, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 01:43 EST David, I use SB with NeoD and Geneva by loading G from the desktop. I use either 1024x656x16 or 1538x832i (?) x 16 for most work. That works great for me. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 110 Thu Dec 30, 1993 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 03:06 EST Kevin, I know you can get color with Screenblaster/Geneva/Neodesk by loading Geneva from the desktop but according to the Geneva manual, running Geneva from the desktop is NOT the optimum or preferred method. I guess it takes more memory that way. Also, it requires an extra step, whereas I'd prefer Geneva to be completely "transparent". I have three programs that I consider "essential" to my Falcon. They are Warp 9, Screenblaster and Geneva. The former Warp 9/Screenblaster minor incompatibities were fixed. Now if only the Geneva/Screenblaster problem could be fixed I could set my auto folder and forget it. I guess I'll have to wait until March to be able to change video modes from within Neodesk though. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 111 Thu Dec 30, 1993 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 04:09 EST David, Oh, sorry. I tend to forget about ram since I've got 14meg to fool around with. :) As a temporary fix, why not set G as an AUTOSTART program from the install app menu item, rename DESKICON.RSC to DESKICON.RSX (to keep NewDesk from loading it & wasting memory), put all of your ACC's in a folder (so G can load them for ya, but TOS won't see them). That way, you'll minimize the memory usage, have G automagically run, and have things working OK until the fixes get done. :) --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 112 Thu Dec 30, 1993 S.KALEITA [SAK] at 20:00 EST DAN, Put my name on your mailing list...I have aquired a registered version of NeoDesk 3, with my purchase of my brothers MEGA 4. I would like to register the program in my name and address. Steve Kaleita (SAK) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 113 Fri Dec 31, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 21:03 EST Dan, If it isn't to late, Can you have Neodesk automatically set a window to show a folder right after it was created, that way we dont need to hunt down the window for a folder to copy to. DD on/off ;') Bman ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 114 Sat Jan 01, 1994 W.ORTIZ [Will] at 10:54 EST GRIBNIF, Where's my newsletter? Will W.ORTIZ (In NY) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 115 Sat Jan 01, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:45 EST B Man, You DO know that you can just drag items to that folder, without needing to have it open, yes? Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 116 Sat Jan 01, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 15:24 EST GRIBNIF & Dan: Just thought I'd let you know I received my newsletter earlier this week up here in Toronto. If I had any reservations about purchasing Geneva, those are now history!! I'll be taking the Geneva/NeoDesk4 plunge when 4 is available. (I'd grab Geneva now, but I'm suffering post-Christmas bank balance blues... ) ;^) Thanks for your help, and I'm looking forward to increasing my productivity and FUN on my Atari thanks to you, and the other fine supporters of this oft-maligned platform! Happy New Year and best wishes for 1994! May the year be happy, bright, and Intel-free!! Rob in Toronto ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 117 Sun Jan 02, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:17 EST Rob, Glad to hear you are planning to add Geneva to your setup. The support here is first-rate. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 118 Sun Jan 02, 1994 B.AEIN [B Man] at 15:19 EST Al, yes but after creating a folder say named xxx, it will not show in a small window, so you must scroll the window to drag and drop. I am very Glad to see that there is now a little trash can icon in the window now. I know I mentioned this before, Have a icon at the bottom of the window that one can drag and drop files on to copy/move to another directory WITHOUT having to open another drive window, move thru layers of folders and release. Just drag the files to this icon and release. The file selector should then be presented to the user so they can QUICKLY set where they want the files to go. Sort of like Maxifile. IF you were to drag and drop to another drive icon, instead of just coyping to the root, a file selector would appear and set its self to that drive for the copy/move, so the user could place the files in a folder or the root and not have to waste time scrolling thru the window. To really go the whole 9 yards, have another icon that when clicked on gives you the file selector again to copy/move files from other partitions/directorys to the currently opened window/dir. Please consider this feature?!? Bman ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 119 Sun Jan 02, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:21 EST Bman, What trashcan icon? In a NeoDesk window? Not in my 3.04. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 120 Sun Jan 02, 1994 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 20:29 EST Dan, Just a suggest for ND4,.... longer filenames? Aliased? It would be _nice_ ;^) ttyl Jon /s ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 121 Mon Jan 03, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 19:59 EST Jon, Wow... you don't ask for much, do you? Whatever Dan comes up with, I'm sure it will be fantastic... -dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 122 Tue Jan 04, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 19:20 EST I got my newsletter in the mail yesterday. It didn't take me long to start _drooling_ over the new features in NeoDesk 4. Then I saw the upgrade price... I don't know how you do it, but even as a long-time user of NeoDesk, I'd pay full price to get what's in NeoDesk 4. Of course, I'm ecstatic that I don't *have* to pay full price... just the upgrade fee. Filters: a wonderful concept. Wish I'd thought of it. Already I can think of numerous uses and ways to make routine file maintenance easier. Background copying: you're a saint. And a mind-reader. As a matter of fact, I didn't even know I needed this until you mentioned it. Now I can't live without it, and I'll be counting the days until NeoDesk 4's release. ;-) Groups: much more elegant than the kludge I suggested. The way MS Windows _should_ have done it. Window menus: brilliant! (Do you sense a pattern forming here? ;-) May I steal that idea for some of my own programs? Desktop Notes: please, please tell me I can drag these with the mouse... it was the only thing I didn't see mentioned that I really wanted. (And even then, this wouldn't make a hill of beans difference... NeoDesk 4 is another landmark advancement in desktops...) -dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 123 Tue Jan 04, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:57 EST OK guys! I'm beginning to feel left out! Still have seen not hide not hair (should that be hare?) of the newsletter here in the New York area. I've read a few of the posts (teasers!) concerning NeoD4, and how much improved it will be but I'm greedy... I want to read it for myself! I know my last name starts with 'R' and that is towards the end of the alphabet. If this is the reason for the delay, maybe I'll register my next Gribnif purchase as M. Aman! 'Cause I love snail mail... Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 124 Wed Jan 05, 1994 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 00:09 EST DMJ, I have learned that if you dont ask, you never get! Besides, I think Dan is one of the best, on ANY platform .... and I can always _suggest_ ..... ;^) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 125 Wed Jan 05, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 00:10 EST Yeah! I haven't rec'vd my newsletter either. You lucky ones have to quit teasing us... --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 126 Wed Jan 05, 1994 P.LOUIE1 at 02:44 EST I have a problem loading a font into Neodesk. I put FONTLOAD.PRG in the auto folder and NEODESK.FNT in the NEODESK3 folder, but the only characters that have the desired font are the ones in the window (The line that says "xx items in xxxxx bytes" and the files listed in the drive) The menu bars and drive letters in the window are shown with the system font. If I use the Warp 9 font in conjuction with the Neodesk font loader, then everything is shown in the desired font. I would like to only load one font loader instead of two and I'm pretty sure this is not necessary. FONTLOAD should replace all system font characters with the NEODESK.FNT right? Setup is a mono MegaST4 w/TOS 1.4 & Adspeed, Syquest 44MB removable with ICD Link w/6.2.0 boot software. Auto folder: CODE_RAM, WARP9, ADSPEED, UIS III, (Codehead)SPOOLER, FONTLOAD Accs: WARP9CP, CALL_UIS, CAPSLOCK, XCONTROL Anyone got any clues? Thanks. -Phil ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 127 Wed Jan 05, 1994 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 15:57 EST Phil, I don't know if you are using XBoot or not (you didn't list it) but there does seem to be a problem when using it on some systems with FONTLOAD. I have not yet been able to figure out why, either. I suspect I need to do something a little different in FONTLOAD. That's really the only situation I know of where this happens. Matt, The US newsletters all go out at once, so when you get yours is at the mercy of the US Postal System. I have your address as being in Larchmont, NY. Is this correct? Bman, As always, I'll consider your suggestions. As for DD, I'm considering that, too. SAK, It's a little tough to put you on our mailing list without an address . To have the registration changed, please send both disks back to us. We will rewrite them with the REGISTER.PRG in tact. Bob C., 1. Yes. 2. That's why it's a separate form, so you can hold onto it even if you send the other form in. Jon, It's more a function of the operating system that prevents multiple monitors from working easily, not NeoDesk. This isn't really an area which would apply to NeoDesk. Longer filenames in drive windows probably won't happen, but they can be up to 20 chars for items in groups. David F., There is nothing wrong with NeoDesk and Screenblaster that I know if. I've been using them together for a little while now. Geneva, however, had some problems with it which have been fixed in 003. Deleting folders will have to wait until NeoDesk 4. It's not a simple change in the code. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 128 Wed Jan 05, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:37 EST Phil, Sounds like W9 and the Neo font loader are competing. Does the font loader do what it is supposed to do when W9 is not being run? Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 129 Wed Jan 05, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:07 EST Dan - Larchmont, N.Y. it is! Well, we know how much work those letter carriers have to do... guess I'll just be patient and WAIT! Thanks for the response, Matt ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 130 Thu Jan 06, 1994 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 00:30 EST PG-Kevin: > Yeah! I haven't rec'vd my newsletter either. You lucky ones have > to quit teasing us... Then we won't tell you about the simple 10-digit code you can enter in Desktop Notes that will automatically upgrade any version of NeoDesk to 4.0! ;-) ------------------------------- + ON-AIR [07:12 PM-05/Jan/94] + ------------------------------- + LIVE AND DIRECT + ROD MARTIN, NETWORK 23 SOFTWARE ------------------------------- ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 131 Thu Jan 06, 1994 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 01:20 EST Kevin, I _finally_ got my newsletter in snail mail today, but I promise not to torture you about whats in it !! ....... oooooooo ......... nnnniiiii cccceeee! ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 132 Thu Jan 06, 1994 R.BUSH [Richard Bush] at 05:16 EST >I'm beginning to feel left out! Still have seen not hide not hair >(should that be hare?) of the newsletter here in the New York area. Me too! How soon can I expect to receive that newsletter? *S ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 133 Thu Jan 06, 1994 L.SMITH30 [LOUIS] at 05:37 EST Hey Matt your post MUST be bad. My last name starts with 'S' and I live in a little corner of the world no-one seems to want to know much about, geographically or politically, and I already have the newsletter. Maybe the fact that I am the only Atari nutcase in Gibraltar has something to do with it. I've just ordered Geneva and will upgrade to Neo4 as soon as it is released. Louis (from The Rock of Gibraltar) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 134 Thu Jan 06, 1994 S.KALEITA [SAK] at 08:44 EST Dan, is the address on the back of the NeoDesk 3 manual, your current address? SAK P.S. I live 15 miles due east of the city of the Rose Bowl winners. Does that help any? ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 135 Fri Jan 07, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 01:13 EST Rod .... Your such a tease! Matt ===== Louis (Rock of G) Well, your post-people must not mind working for a living! Seriously, I will take a jab at the postal service from time to time, but I know for the most part these guys _do_ work hard... especially around holiday times. There _is_ something about those _guaranteed_ civil service jobs, though! Matt [ Still waiting :-( ] ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 136 Fri Jan 07, 1994 P.LOUIE1 at 01:19 EST Al, Dan I just upgraded NeoDesk to 3.04 (also got Geneva) and it seems like the font problem is gone. I got rid of NEOFONT and now I just use the font setting in Warp 9. Thanks for the help. -Phil P.S. No, I don't use a boot manager... ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 137 Fri Jan 07, 1994 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 03:02 EST SAK, Current Gribnif adddress: Gribnif Software P.O. Box 779 Northampton, MA 01061 Phone Number : (413) 247-5620 GEnie Address : GRIBNIF ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Friday, January 7, 1994 - 1:44:38 am ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 138 Sat Jan 08, 1994 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 22:11 EST I would like NeoDesk 4 to allow ALT-Clicking on a folder to open it to a new window. It is a great feature of NewDesk and I miss it in NeoDesk. How about background floppy formatting under Geneva? ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 139 Sun Jan 09, 1994 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 13:38 EST I can't recall when or whether it was in another topic, but I thought I read were someone using an Albert TT graphics card was able to run Superbase in Geneva ? Ok so this is the wrong topic for the question, but I think it was John at genielamp who said this when mentionimg Neodesk and Geneva. (my justification for broaching the subject this topic area.) :-) Gerald ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 140 Sun Jan 09, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:39 EST Spud, Background floppy formatting is provided by FMT.PRG, which is part of the DESKCOPY utilities. It works perfectly under Geneva. It's in the libraries here. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 141 Sun Jan 09, 1994 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 15:42 EST I have been using NeoDesk 3.04 on the Falcon and it seems that it uses the NEODESKH.RSC file for all the 640x480 color modes. This means that if I set up the colors for the 16 color mode, then when I switch to 2 color mode all the icons are black. Is this a problem with NeoDesk 3 (to be fixed in v.4 I am sure) or am I doing something wrong. Thanks, RandyH ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 142 Sun Jan 09, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 16:08 EST >Message 138 Sat Jan 08, 1994 >T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 22:11 EST > >I would like NeoDesk 4 to allow ALT-Clicking on a folder to open >it to a new window. It is a great feature of NewDesk and I miss >it in NeoDesk. You have my vote for this one. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 143 Sun Jan 09, 1994 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 19:16 EST Al, Thanks for the tip on FMT.PRG. Background formatting would still be a great feature for NEOdesk though. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 144 Sun Jan 09, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 19:20 EST RandyH, If you check your NeoDesk manual, it will tell you that NeoDesk will use NEODESKH.RSC or NEODESKM.RSC, whichever is closer to the aspect ratio of your screen. (NEODESKL.RSC is a special case.) Since 640x480 most closely resembles 640x400 (ST High), it gets NEODESKH.RSC. This is not a problem-- just the way NeoDesk works. To have a different .RSC file for _every_ resolution would use a lot of space. I don't know exactly how NeoDesk 4's color icons work, but I imagine this is one of those things Dan has already figured out... (he seems to think of everything). -dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 145 Sun Jan 09, 1994 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 23:24 EST GFN, I thought it was impossible to run SuperBase, until i read your note where it says I said otherwise... Well, it is possible (THANK HEAVENS!) the fix is similar to the DWS (dreaded White Screen) fix I use when saving my NeoDesk configuration (^X). As you know you get hit with the DWS there, and to fix it I run one of my NeoDesk macros which runs a program (usually I pick the macro which run my SpeedoGDOS DRIVERS.PRG). As soon as the drivers program runs, voila, no more DWS. To fix SuperBase, run the program, then ALT-TAB twice (or however many times it takes you to get the NeoDesk app active) then run your macro. You'll see the SuperBase window running happily (and hugely) in the background, click on it to make it active, and you're in business! Oh, make sure you have the 'Keep menu bar and desktop' flag on in the FLAGS configuration, else the darned drive window keeps popping up! I can now run SuperBase again! John ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 146 Mon Jan 10, 1994 T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart] at 01:19 EST Randy - Hmmm, that's odd... Any time I've used NeoDesk in a non-standard resolution, it's asked me to supply the last letter for the INF file name. Oh, wait, you're talking RESOURCE files... Can't help you there. - T.J> ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 147 Mon Jan 10, 1994 S.DEITZ [Steve] at 05:00 EST A warning on DESKCOPY: I used this German prog under MTOS to copy some files once (just once) in the background and it copied them to "never never land". Oh, did I say 'copy'? I meant MOVED!!! Watch it. ----STEVE---- ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 148 Mon Jan 10, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:21 EST Randy, This is a common problem, and is not evidence of anything wrong with NeoDesk or the Falcon or anything else. The colored icons are shown in b/w mode as dark on dark, since anything that is not clear (white) must be black. I went to the trouble of creating two main NeoDesk folders -- NEOCOLOR and NEOMONO, with separate icon rsc files in each. I just copied my color icons over (I use color most of the time, so they are the ones I have tweaked), then went into the icon editor and made them all b/w. This does take up extra disk space (200-300K?), but sure makes life easier. Macros and notes don't need to be changed. I just copy new macro files or note files from one folder to the other. Spud, Personally, I'd rather see Dan putting his energies into features that can't be done via separate utilities. I doubt that any desktop programmer can find the time to create a truly powerful, flexible formatter, and when we have one in FMT.PRG, why should he bother? it runs in thebackground, handles HD disks, and behaves perfectly under Geneva. What more could we want? Let's encourage Dan to spend time on 16- and 256-color icons, iconizable windows, elimination of the 98-icon limit (boo on that one!) and so on. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 149 Mon Jan 10, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:59 EST Steve, DeskCopy is odd, I agree. But the FMT.PRG in the same group of utils is wonderifulous. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 150 Mon Jan 10, 1994 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 18:38 EST Gribnif; I don't know whether to post this here or in the Geneva TOPic, but here goes: Having recently bought Geneva (no, I haven't mailed the card in), I am experimenting with a 14*8 font GDOS font instead of the 16*8 font. No major problems, but the NeoDesk icon editor used much-too-small line spacing, and NeoDesk for some reason switched to the med-res icon set. NeoDesk 4 sounds great, BTW. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 151 Mon Jan 10, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 20:29 EST Al, What 98-icon limit? I've had over 100 icons in NeoDesk... but not _many_ more. -dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 152 Tue Jan 11, 1994 T.CARMAN [Tom Carman] at 00:53 EST Dan, Just got my "Desktop Notes" today and am quite excited about the new features coming in Neodesk 4. I would, however, like to put in a request. Could you please modify the formatting routine in Neodesk 4 to offer High Density formatting regardless of the machine it is being run on. I will explain why. I have both a TT and a modified MEGA ST4 (not the STE). A buddy of mine, who is a talented technician designed and installed on the MEGA a mod which allows me to use High Density disks. It works flawlessly. However, I am only able to format floppies using a format utility other than the built in Newdesk (yes, I also have TOS 2.06) formatting routine, or the one built into Neodesk. As I understand it they both look to the Cookie Jar for a Cookie that indicates a HD drive is installed. As this mod does not use an Ajax chip the TOS is unaware of the HD drive for formatting. Certainly this is not the end of the world, as there are some good formatting utilities available that offer High Density and do not look to the hardware, but it certainly would be nice to not have to resort to other programs for this, especially since you plan to offer background formatting in NeoDesk 4. The only other solution I can think of is if there were some way to install the all important Cookie with out the correct hardware being present. Tom Carman (The Sermonator) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 153 Tue Jan 11, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 00:57 EST doesn't this I've got more icons than you discussion come up every six month or so? I think I'll read it again as I always forget the outcome. :-) John B. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 154 Tue Jan 11, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 06:18 EST I printed out the entire 2500 icons from Al's recent upload, shrunk down all the pages on my copier, scanned them back in with the trusty Migraph, converted it to an IMG and printed it out on transparency film, glued it to the _inside_ of my CRT, installed a grid of microfine sensors over the CRT, wrote the required driver to locate the mouse pointer and the macros to start whatever application the pointer was over when I clicked the mouse. Worked great but it was too much eyestrain so I gave it to my kid. He's always on the prowl for a new game. 'Papa' ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 155 Tue Jan 11, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 08:38 EST Tom, There is a way to install the cookie. I did an autoswitching Hi/Lo density mod to my 1040 with the AJAX and TOS2.06. I just whipped up a little AUTO program to shove in the cookie and everything worked fine. If you can't find a program to do that already in the libs, I'll try to find mine (I use the Falcon now so I'd have to dig ). --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 156 Tue Jan 11, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:51 EST dmj, Neo 3.04 has a 98-icon limit. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 157 Tue Jan 11, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:54 EST Papa, You did all that during a lunch break, too, right? Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 158 Tue Jan 11, 1994 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 19:13 EST How many desktop icons does NeoDesk 3.04 permit to be placed on the desktop? At the moment, in TT Medium I've got 9 drive icons, 20 program and data file icons, one trashcan, one clipboard and 1 printer icon for a total of 32. If I try to place any more than that I get a message from NeoDesk saying that I've already got the maximum number of icons permitted. Why is that? I should be able to fill my desktop with icons. I can with the built-in desktop in TOS 3.06. John T. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 159 Tue Jan 11, 1994 R.HOEKSTRA1 [RandyH] at 20:50 EST DMJ & Al, I thought that was the way the resource files worked, but just wanted to be sure. As usual, it always helps to read the docs, but that would be too easy. Guess we just have to wait for NeoDesk 4 to really seen the Falcon desktop shine. RandyH ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 160 Tue Jan 11, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:24 EST Al, I did it while in the Twilight Zone _before_ my first cup of coffee in the morning. Seriously, though - I used to moan about the 28 icon limit and now I can have 98. That's terrible!! Now my cyber desktop is going to look like the real one! Ah, relief - I just checked my Neo 3.04 and it will only hold 32. Safe for the time being until . . . 'Papa' ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 161 Wed Jan 12, 1994 S.DEITZ [Steve] at 05:53 EST Al, If I remember correctly I tried installing *just* FMT.PRG and every time I tried a delete it would copy (via DESKCOPY) the files to the TRASH folder. Very strange as I removed everything else. Too wierd; I just gave up. I'll wait for NeoDesk 4 :-) ----STEVE---- ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 162 Wed Jan 12, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:49 EST Jon T. The back of the Neo manual lists all the limits. The ddesktop limit is 28. BTW, TOS sure does have a limit, based on the size of the INF file. If you have a lot of installed apps and fkeys, you can't put more than a few icons on the desktop. Papa, 32? 32 what? 98 is the total limit. 28 is the total for the desktop. If you have fewer drive icons than usual, you can have more app icons. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 163 Wed Jan 12, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 13:24 EST Waaaaaa! I want my NeoDesk 4! :) I had to do it. :) --Kevin Houser (same one ) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 164 Wed Jan 12, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:37 EST Al, I tried opening a drive and dragging folders onto the desktop along with my app and drive icons. Got a total of 32 icons on the desktop. Is the limit of 98 referring to the NIC file? 'Papa' whose dog _did_not_ eat the manual - just buried it in the rubble! ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 165 Wed Jan 12, 1994 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 22:05 EST Al... OK, thanks, I found the section in the manual (p. 118) describing the limits. Aw fooey... Grumble grumble grumble... 28 desktop icons is not enough. I want to fill that sucker up! I've currently got 29 program/data, 9 drive icons and 1 trashcan icon on my standard TOS 3.06 desktop. Many of those also have installed apps set up. My newdesk.inf currently is 3273 bytes - I believe that the size limit is 4096 bytes - so I've got a way to go yet! :-) Do you know if NeoDesk 4 is going to support a greater number of desktop icons? Another question: Is there any known problem with Warp 9's EOS when run in conjunction with NeoDesk 3.04 and Geneva 1.03? I've noticed that whenever the screen saver kicks in, the system more-or-less hangs. The screen saver continues to run until I press a key or move the mouse to jump back to the desktop (or program that happens to be running). At that point the screen saver stops running (whatever happens to be on the screen freezes or the screen just switches to black). No amount of keypressing or mouse moving will bring the system back to life. Only a hard reset will. No, I haven't tried stripping my system of DAs and TSRs yet. I will when I find some time though. I'm not running anything unusual, however. John T. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 166 Wed Jan 12, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 22:32 EST John T., I noticed the problem of lockups when EOS (W9) and Geneva rel003, and NeoDesk3.04 are running. I've also noticed a strange interaction between the Pure "C" shell and the W9 EOS that leads to a crash with anything but the default screensaver. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 167 Thu Jan 13, 1994 T.CARMAN [Tom Carman] at 00:58 EST Kevin, I have looked in the library and found one program that purportedly was supposed to do that under certain conditions, but it would not work for me. If you wouldn't mind 'digging' I sure would appreciate it. Thanks. Tom Carman (The Sermonator) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 168 Thu Jan 13, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 08:21 EST Tom, I'll check for it sometime tonight. I need to look at the sources again just to make sure everything was bug free. If so, I'll upload it. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 169 Thu Jan 13, 1994 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 21:55 EST Kevin... Thanks for the report on lockups between EOS and Geneva rel 003 and NeoDesk 3.04. At least I know it's not just me going crazy. John T. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 170 Thu Jan 13, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:33 EST Steve, Copy the RSC file for FMT.PRG to your RSC folder, making sure, of course, that the RSC folder is in your PATH statement. When you run FMT, it will work fine. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 171 Fri Jan 14, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:07 EST Papa, 98 icons in the NIC, yes. I'm sure you are right about the 32. My dog didn't eat the manual yet, but maybe he should; I *was* quoting it correctly.... John T., The newdesk.inf limit appears to be 4,168 bytes. I have had to switch to NVDI because it is designed to handle my graphics card, so I haven't run EOS modules lately. On the ST, though, I've noticed problems, and haven't yet traced them. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 172 Fri Jan 14, 1994 T.CARMAN [Tom Carman] at 01:39 EST Kevin, Thanks, I hope this thing will do the trick. Thanks for taking the time to dig it out for me. Perhaps there are others out there who have done High Density upgrades who would appreciate it as well, in which case perhaps you should post it as a file to the library rather than as file mail to me. Looking forward to your upload. Dan, I would be interested in your thoughts on my questions regarding making Neodesk 4's High Density formatting routines accessible to systems with High Density modifications. Is there some advantage to the requirement for a Cookie indicating the presence of the hardware, or could the High Density feature just be made always available? Tom Carman (The Sermonator) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 173 Fri Jan 14, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 05:09 EST Al, You are quoting it correctly. I always understood the limit to be 28 icons myself. The figure of 32 was derived by opening a drive and dragging _groups_ of folders onto the desktop until it gave the alert that I had reached the max. I don't know for sure that all 32 icons would be usable. I seem to have temporarily overcome the compulsion to have all my programs appear on the desktop including the ones I rarely use. 'Papa' ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 174 Fri Jan 14, 1994 S.DEITZ [Steve] at 05:56 EST Thanx Al. Should I find the time/patience I will try it again ;-) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 175 Fri Jan 14, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 13:48 EST Tom, I'll be hooking up my SyQuest tonight so I should be able to find it. Look for it sometime this weekend. I'll also post it to the RT library. I may rewrite it to use JAR10.PRG so it will be even smaller (removing the cookie jar stuff from my code). I've just gotta find the info on using JAR10 again. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 176 Fri Jan 14, 1994 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:48 EST Everyone, Your position alphabetically actually has nothing to do with when you receive your newsletter. It's up to the post offices in your state and town. The amount of pre-sorting we could do based on the number of customers in one area also affects it. We sent out the non-US ones first, by Air Mail. Then, we sent all of the US Bulk Mail, followed by all of the Canadian Bulk Mail (this latter part was lots of fun, because we had to find postal employees who actually knew this was possible, and could get the right forms!) As for icons, sigh, here we go again: 32 total icons on the desktop at one time, of which mo more than 28 can be from files or folders on disk (as opposed to drive icons/clipboard/trash/printer). The 98 icons in memory (or thereabouts) is related to the size of the RSC file, which cannot exceed 64K. These icons are the ones that NeoDesk uses when deciding which image to use for a particular file. Both of these limits are gone (bye bye!) for NeoDesk 4, so I won't have to keep re-stating this every few months Sermonator, (we laughed for several minutes about that one!) There is actually a program I wrote a while back that forces the cookie on a machine that does not have it, thus permitting NeoDesk to think there is a HD drive. Do a search for the uploader address GRIBNIF, and if it's not there I'll upload it. The reason NeoDesk requires the cookie is to prevent the average user who does not have a HD drive from selecting the option and causing some seriously nasty sounds to come from their drive when they try to format a disk. John T., Yes, there is a 32 icon limit in NeoDesk 3, but you'll be glad to know that there is no limit at all in NeoDesk 4. (Ok, it would probably start to mess up after 32,767...) John T. & Kevin, I use EOS here daily, and have no problems. Which EOS module, and in what screen rez? myeck, NeoDesk 3 does not handle non-standard font sizes very well. This is fixed in NeoDesk 4. Randy H., That is a problem in NeoDesk 3 which will be addressed by 4. Spud Boy, It'll actually probably be a Shift-double-click. Background formatting is possible. SAK, No, the address on the NeoDesk 3 manual is the old one. Use: P.O. Box 779 Northampton, MA 01061-0779 (413) 247-5620 (fax: 247-5622) Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 177 Fri Jan 14, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 17:47 EST Al, My lockup occurs even with the default (blanking) EOS screen saver. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 178 Fri Jan 14, 1994 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 21:52 EST Al, OK, But it doesn't hurt to ask....! ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 179 Sat Jan 15, 1994 T.CARMAN [Tom Carman] at 01:01 EST Dan, Glad you liked the handle. Being an Anglican (same as Episcopalian) Priest it sort of fits don't you think? I did a search for the uploader address GRIBNIF and unfortunately was not able to find your HD Cookie cheat. Kevin, of PG.MUSIC is going to upload a patch he wrote, but I would still appreciate trying yours just in case there are any problems or compatibility glitchs. As for the safety precaution of not making HD formatting available to those who don't have the correct hardware, I guess I tend to forget there are those out there who wouldn't know any better and might damage their equipment. That's part of what makes you such a good programmer, you don't forget the needs of the novice while still providing for the `power user'. Looking forward to Neodesk 4. Tom Carman (The Sermonator) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 180 Sat Jan 15, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:40 EST Papa, The advantage of NeoD over the TOs desktop (which lets you have more icons) is that Neo doesn't subtract the icon INF code from the total, so that you still have all your Neo macros available. i see no point in having an icon on the DT for an app that has a macro assigned, so that's how I get around the problem. And of course you can have a Neo macro that loads another DT, too. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 181 Sat Jan 15, 1994 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 17:40 EST Al... Hmmmm, perhaps you are correct on the NEWDESK.INF file limit. I knew it was somewhere in the neighborhood of 4K bytes. 4,168 is even better than 4,096! :-) Actually, I haven't noticed any specific Warp 9 screen acceleration problems when running with Geneva003/NeoDesk 3.04. Only the EOS module gets messed up. I also have NVDI available, but since that doesn't have a screen saver, I haven't been using it. I suppose I could run W9 without EOS active and use a separate screen saver. Thanks for the info. Dan... Great! No (reasonable) icon limit in NeoDesk 4.0! Good deal. Being a new user to both Geneva and NeoDesk, I wasn't aware of the limitation until Al pointed out the section in the Neo manual. No problem - i'll be anxiously awaiting the 4.0 upgrade. Regarding W9/EOS problems, it seems to happen with *all* of the modules. I'm running W9 ver. 3.81 which includes the new "random" function. Some of the modules that have definitely caused problems include: DEFAULT, BATSIG1, BATSIG2, MANDELA, LIQPIXEL, FLYSHAPE, THRONES. Again, because of my current schedule, I haven't tried running W9 alone in the system with Geneva. I'll try to do that this weekend. it's possible that some other TSR/DA is causing a conflict too (although I'm using the same TSRs/DAs, for the most part, with Geneva/Neo, that I use on a straight system). John T. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 182 Sat Jan 15, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 19:48 EST Dan, Only 32767 icons available in Neo4? Geeze, why so few. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 183 Sat Jan 15, 1994 R.BUSH [Richard Bush] at 19:52 EST This is odd. Many of you remember that I've had problems with NeoDesk crashing when I changed disks in drive A on my Falcon. It happened from the desktop and from the file selector. Today, using the Geneva file selector inside Aladdin, I found I could change disks all I wanted. No crash at all. I just went out to the desktop, still no crash. I'm wondering if some program I've run recently has taken care of whatever bug causes the crash. No telling what it is-- I've had the computer on without a reset since yesterday. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 184 Sat Jan 15, 1994 T.CARMAN [Tom Carman] at 23:24 EST Kevin, Thanks for the FHDCOOKY.PRG. So far it is working great. I have formatted with Neodesk with no problems and I have not noticed any strange new problems with anything on the system. The only thing I was surprised by is that TLC~FORM.PRG, which also looks to TOS before making its High Density formatting available, did not see the change. Both TOS 2.06 and NeoDesk work fine though. Thanks again. Tom Carman (The Sermonator) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 185 Sun Jan 16, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:26 EST John, If you haven't tried the latest TT Artist screen saver, by all means, do so. It's the single best package of screen savers for the TT. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 186 Sun Jan 16, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 12:54 EST Tom, If you have a problem with TLC Formatter, you can drop by the TLC Software topic and let Tom Hayslett know about it... I'd tell you the topic number, but it seems to not be in my topic list. Hmmm. I think it's in Category 2... -dmj ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 187 Sun Jan 16, 1994 T.CARMAN [Tom Carman] at 19:30 EST Kevin, I mistakenly put my last reply in the Geneva Topic area and then realized too late what I had done. That's why I posted the same message again here in the Neodesk Topic. So sorry for the double message, but I thought I should get this discussion back here where it belongs. Re the FHDCOOKY.PRG then, it continues to work fine, but I will keep my eyes out for problems with memory. Thanks for your response about TLC Formatter possibly looking to the hardware directly. I wondered myself if that may be what is going on. I may have to drop into the pertinent topic area and leave a word about that. Thanks again for your help. I didn't want to miss out on the background formatting Dan is building into NeoDesk 4 and without this patch I could not have used it for High Density formatting. DMJ, Thanks for your interest re my difficulties with TLC formatter. I probably should drop by that topic area and report the problem, but my main concern was getting the built-in TOS and NeoDesk formatting routines to be available with my rather unorthodox hardware set-up. I have a MEGA 4 with a High Density Drive and High Density controller designed by my local technician. As you can see above I was looking to the future in order not to miss out on the new background formatting feature in NeoDesk 4. Tom Carman (The Sermonator) ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 188 Sun Jan 16, 1994 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 20:22 EST OK, I used ALADSHOW to search for all sorts of keywords like FORMAT and DESK UTILITY and FMT.PRG to no avail. Does anyone have the file number for FMT.PRG? ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 189 Sun Jan 16, 1994 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 21:23 EST Al... Thanks for the pointer towards TT Artist. I've located the file in the Library and I'll be downloading it later tonight. John T. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 190 Sun Jan 16, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 22:19 EST Tom, No need to post twice. I read all Geneva and NeoDesk topics. --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 191 Mon Jan 17, 1994 C.KROWCHUK1 [CHRIS] at 09:54 EST Dan, I don't suppose that you would consider adding room for 2 more icons in Neo 4. I need 32769. I could live with 32767 but if it's not a problem. . . . Chris. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 192 Mon Jan 17, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:16 EST Buff, FMT.PRG is part of the DESKCOPY package. Look under that name or keyword. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 193 Mon Jan 17, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:46 EST Dan, Has the macro buffer size been increased? Maybe user definable for those with a lot of memory. John B. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 194 Mon Jan 17, 1994 S.AGARWAL [SANJAY] at 20:04 EST Dan, Received my Neodesk 3.03. Thanks. However I seem to be having a problem installing it. I suspect that the master disk is the problem. When I run the install program I get the message that data on Disk A is damaged (when it is sorting out the neodesk.exe file). If I select cancel then retry it seems to continue fine. I have set the Geneva GEM.CNF file's shell to run the neodesk.exe file as in the Geneva manual but I get no desktop. I have even tried running the neoload.prg and then the neodesk.exe but get the message that neodesk.exe is not an executable program (status #-66). Any ideas?? Thanks, Sanjay. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 195 Tue Jan 18, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:20 EST Sanjay, Make sure your GEM.CNF has a line in it that reads exactly like this: setenv GEMEXT=PRG,APP,GTP,EXE Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 196 Tue Jan 18, 1994 S.AGARWAL [SANJAY] at 20:31 EST Al, I have the line 'setenv GEMEXT=PRG,APP,GTP,EXE' in my GEM.CNF file. I tried backing up my master disk and got the message that neodesk.exe could not be read. I think this file is bad. The copy installed in my Neodesk3 folder on drive C is 4096 bytes in size, whereas the copy on the master disk is of 154317 bytes. Any chance of a f-mail Dan? Sanjay. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 197 Wed Jan 19, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:45 EST Sanjay, Something's wrong. Dan should be able to fix things up. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 198 Wed Jan 19, 1994 S.AGARWAL [SANJAY] at 20:08 EST I hope so, Al. Sanjay. ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 199 Wed Jan 19, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 21:05 EST Nyaaa Nyaaa !!!! I got my Newsletter yesterday! [8^P--<-< --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 200 Thu Jan 20, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EST Kevin, Still waiting for my newsletter. Sigh! Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 14 Message 201 Thu Jan 20, 1994 PG.MUSIC [PG-Kevin] at 08:02 EST Al, I won't taunt you with the news as reported by Al Fasoldt in the newsletter. :) Good article. One thing tho'. In the newsletter, the segment on Interface refers to the XRSRC stuff... Well... I've got Interface and the XRSRC stuff. I can't get XRSRC.C to work correctly Dan. I need some quick help! My RSC objects weren't getting their positions fixed up correctly, and it sometimes crashed. It was like all of the objects were twice as wide as they should've been. Heeeeeeeeelp! I want my NeoDesk 4. Soon! :) --Kevin ------------