========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 7, Topic 41 Message 1 Mon Oct 25, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 12:11 EDT Welcome, we at Cybercube are very excited about the introduction of InShape. InShape is a truly professional modeling and rendering package that brings a new level of performance to your TT030 or Falcon030. In the following we will discuss some of it's highlights and special features, together with valuable tips and tricks to help you make the most out of InShape. To evaluate InShape for yourself, we have just uploaded a special DEMO version here on GEnie. Please download files #30505 and #30506. In order to run the complete demo, you must download both files. Note: the present DEMO release will only run on TT030's and Falcon030's equipped with a math coprosessor. In addition, we have released two press releases that give you a short overview of the features, versions, availability and pricing. Be sure to check those special introductory offers! For all those of you who want to sample the quality of InShape's rendering engine, simply have a look at the new InShape TIFF images in the graphics library. You are all invited to discuss any graphics, raytracing, rendering or animation related topics here. There is a whole new adventure waiting. So, come on in, and let's start a jorney into a new colorful dimension. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 2 Mon Oct 25, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 22:16 EDT Congratulations on the acquisition of this excellent program, Ralf. I remember seeing InShape a year ago at the last Duesseldorf Atari Fair and being quite impressed. Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 3 Tue Oct 26, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 00:09 EDT I just got through checking and released the InShape demo... this is a real keeper! Thanks for uploading it and for all the sample files. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 4 Tue Oct 26, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 01:40 EDT Will InShape run on a Tiny Turbo or other 030 accelerator? Will we as users have input as to future features in updates? How would you rate the pre-rendering speed of the prg, like in setting up the keyframes and modeling? Thanks Bman ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 5 Tue Oct 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:23 EDT Thanks, Ralf. I'll check out the demo! Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 6 Tue Oct 26, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 06:06 EDT Ralf, Cool!:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 7 Tue Oct 26, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:31 EDT B Man, InShape is already very fast. And it is getting faster with every new update that is coming. The overall speed really depends on the type of quality factors that you can define within a great range. With versions 1.00 and 1.02 you can e.g. set your resolution to 80x80, reduce the number of iterations and disable all the 'goodies' like transparency if you do not need them and you may get a finished image within a few minutes or even seconds. Version 2.00 even features a direct on-screen preview and rendering mode to evaluate the positioning of lights, surface colors and materials. User input: Sure, we welcome constructive ideas and suggestions. And by the way, welcome guys! /// *,* \_/ Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 8 Wed Oct 27, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 03:51 EDT I have seen some pictures rendered with InShape in a French mag. How much does it cost? (May we get a Canadian price also) What graphic cards has it been tested on? ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 9 Wed Oct 27, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:23 EDT See Flat, hi, you can find all the pricing information in our press releases in library 14 (#30512 and #30513). Be sure to check out those files since they contain a limited time offer regarding InShape. It list both, the U.S. and the Canadian prices. /// ^,^ \_/ And yes, InShape has been reviewed by magazines in Germany, the UK, France and coming soon... also in your 'local' publications. *grin* InShape INTRO (1.00) and InShape 1.02 run in all those modes listed in the included READ.ME files. The new version 2.00, runs independently from any resolution or color restrictions. Have you tried any of the examples yet? If you create a nice image with InShape, why not U/L it for others to enjoy? Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 10 Wed Oct 27, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 19:30 EDT Ralf, I know that rendering is slow, but I am asking about everything But rendering in terms of speed. I Know that chronos is quite slow when doing keyframes and such, and wanted a compairison, I own version 1.32. Does Inshape support partical systems, such as gravity and collisions? Do you need 6 megs no matter what in version 2.0, or you just cant perform all functions? Will it multitask with Geneva? This is very important, cause it will tie up the computer for a awhile rendering. Will you have an RTC on InShape soon? Thanks Bman ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 11 Wed Oct 27, 1993 L.SQUIRE [Lance] at 21:51 EDT Ralf, InShape works fine on my TT, But I can't get it running on my Falcon. I'm using an SC1224 (Original two tone) Monitor. Got around the 640x480 Prob (only 400) using a soft screen expander, However the program Comes up with a line of bombs. Is this due to the Lack of a Math Coprocessor? Also Has the programmer thought of using the DSP? It could REALLY speed things up! Thanks Lance F. Squire ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 12 Thu Oct 28, 1993 C.FLUEGEL [Curt] at 01:04 EDT Lance : yup, I get the same bombs on my falcon. It will not run without the math co... bummer.... Curt ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 13 Thu Oct 28, 1993 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 17:24 EDT You HAVE to have a math coprocessor in the Falcon to use the Inshape demo (the TT already has one!). And the fact that the DSP makes everything REALLY faster is a common myth. It is good at many things like signal processing, FFT's (Fast Fourier Transforms) etc, but for basic floating point math a FPU is much faster that the DSP. (Thats why most computers have FPUs and not DSPs). John ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 14 Thu Oct 28, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:23 EDT B Man, InShape 1.00 and InShape 1.02 do not support particle animation systems per se. You would have to find some innovative ways to 'simulate' such a behaviour. *,* \_/ InShape 2.0 lists only 4 MB as a basic requirement to run properly. But it really depends on the complexity of your objects and animation how much RAM you will need. We've ran animations and scene editing sessions with objects >300 KB in 4 MB. We got a copy of GENEVA from Gribnif for compatibility tests. I will post the results as soon as we had some time to check it. InShape RTC? Good idea! We could certainly organize one! Lance, as listed in the read me files and the file descriptions, you will need at least 640x480 in 16 or more colors to properly run InShape. An FPU must also be present. These are the basic hardware requirements and we believe if you want to do some serious or demanding rendering/ raytracing or animation projects, you will certainly need a capable hardware platform to start with. Nonetheless, we will pursue all avenues and try to make a version of InShape that does not require the FPU. John, you are quite right. But the InShape developer team is comitted to continue their efforts to create a powerful and professional product that utilizes all of the computers recources in the best way possible. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 15 Thu Oct 28, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 19:12 EDT Ralf, you say that IS 1.00 and 1.02 don't support partical, does that mean 2.0 does? Will you be selling a paint package to touch up the frames of the animation? Bman ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 16 Thu Oct 28, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:48 EDT Ralf, I read the press release on InShape. It only runs on Falcons and TT's ? Isnt' this a rather limited market? It looked like a really nice package. I do have a Turbo 030 though, did anyone test it wiht the Fastech's board. P.S. Canadian pricing on press release much appretiated! ;-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 17 Thu Oct 28, 1993 L.SQUIRE [Lance] at 20:22 EDT John: I thought MOST computers had FPUs instead of DSPs because they were less expensive & more readily available. :) But I do Have 2 arguments in favour of using the DSP. Unfortunatly my F partition is waiting for Dimond Edge to save it, But I have 2 programs that use the DSP to do math. The first is that Fractal benchmark prog (Name???) That will use straight CPU math, FPU math (If you have 1) OR DSP math (Again must have 1). If I recall the DSP mode on a falcon will out preform the TT's FPU! The Second (3 actually) "Flys" into a Fractal in REAL TIME. I would call that REALLY fast! Now I admit these both do Fractals & I have NO idea what an FFT is. All: Thank you All for confirming that the missing FPU is the real Problem.(Now I shall Have to go get one, And use my TT in the interim) Lance ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 18 Thu Oct 28, 1993 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 22:58 EDT FPU's are less expensive because many more of them are manufactured. If you look back to the 'old' days you'll see that then they were comparatively much more expensive than a DSP is now. However the whole idea behind a dedicated chip is that by specializing in one particular area you can be more efficient. Thus an FPU 'lives' floating point math with nothing else while a DSP has a more general instruction set but with an emphasis towards signal processing applications. There are several factors involved in the DSP with math. First of all the DSP 56001 is an integer chip (just like the 68000 and 68030) and has a long word size of 24 bits vs the 32 bits in the 68000. This means that to perform floating point math it must emulate the floating point libraries. It can still do this much faster than the 68030 because it is a faster chip and has a faster instruction set. The second issue is that the DSP has a limited amount of its own memory (32K or 64K?) and cannot directly access the main processor's memory. Instead the DSP must first load the data into its memory before it can access it, done with the overhead of an OS call. A fractal program is a VERY good DSP example program. First of all the math can be done in FIXED point instead of FOATING point precision. I won't get into the details of that but basically it makes the math MUCH quicker, but puts serious constraints on the range of values a number may have as well as its precision. Fixed point math would have very bad side effects in a raytracer IMHO. Secondly since a fractal is algorithmically generated the entire algorithm and its data can be stored within the DSP's memory, thus allowing the entire program to run within DSP. This can't be done with a Raytracer where the scene description may be 100-1000K and the data transfer overheads would become significant. Therefore though DSP could conceivably help a raytracer in my opinion the benefits would be slight compared to an FPU. However if the InShape developer team's goal is to utilize all of the computers resources then it is certainly possible. John ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 19 Fri Oct 29, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:41 EDT This program is cool!:-) Can't do anything with it but it looks good. I can't seem to Zoom in and out is that a problem? It's probably in the text files somewhere but I didn't have time to read anything I just downloaded it and went from there. Did manage to load the Robot file and test it. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 20 Fri Oct 29, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:37 EDT B Man, right now we will be more than happy to discuss the features of version 1.00 and 1.02. InShape 2.00 is in beta testing right now. A wide variety of features are being tested, evaluated and refined, so it does not make sense to talk about them until we will be able to bring you the InShape 2.00 press release & demo! There are a number of fine paint and touch-up programs available right now. We've already had a chance to look at True Paint, Chagall Invision Elite, Papillon and Studio Photo. We are concentrating our efforts on the video editing and manipulations and there will be some new products in that area. ::: *,* \_/ See Flat, yes, InShape already supports the Falcon030 and TT030. And we are very pleased with the initial response we are getting. Obviously we will now put our efforts towards expanding the potential user base. TinyTurbo030 owners will be amongst the first who will benefit from that expansion. Lance, I appreciate your concerns and I can tell you that the next release will be a major step forward _AND_ use more of the available resources (including the DSP). To what extend this will go, I cannot determine right now but it will help to accelerate some tasks. John, thanks for your comments on the differences between DSP's and FPU's. For all those of you interested in upgrading your system with an FPU, make sure to check the InShape press release section about the math co-processor offers. Joey, to find out more about some of InShape's time saving keyboard shortcuts, please have a look at the READ.ME file that was included with the demo. Now, you don't have to read all of it. For a quick, fast tour, simply skip everything and go straight to the last 1/5th of the file. There you will find a list of the most commonly used keyboard shortcuts, INCLUDING how to ZOOM in and out! /// *,* \_/ And if you would then like to know how to put the whole thing through a nice test, why not print out the tutorial and see what happens... OK, thanks for all of you that stopped by this week. I hope we will 'see' each other next week. But not to forget: HAVE A NICE HAAALLLOOOWWEEEENNN! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 21 Sat Oct 30, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:58 EDT Ralf, If I have to read the directions it's not designed right.:-) Just kidding I actually did render a couple scenes and such with no Readme help what so ever! I saw the F1 and F2 keys marked as Zoom In and Zoom Out but all they did was set the Zoom to 1.00 no matter what. I don't want to complain until I print out the readme files and go over them. Hopefully I'll have time this weekend! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 22 Sat Oct 30, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 18:16 EDT I downloaded the demo and thought it was great. It is a little hard to play around in without a manual though. I sent im my order for the program on the 27th of OCT...I hope to get it soon! One feature that I would like to see is the ability to scale the selected object by dragging the mouse..much like cybersculpt. I realize that this is not the most accurate way of doing things but it sure is fast. Is this capability in later versions? How do you play the animations that the program generates? I could not find that anywhere. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 23 Sun Oct 31, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 01:41 EDT Ralf, I was wondering if you could suggest to the Author to get InShape to run in 2 color mode. The Falcon starts showing a slow down in 16 colors and really bogs down in TC. I know that there will be a certain point were you need to asign colors and textures to objects, so if InShape ran in 2 color for most everything, I think it would speed things up to warrant the trouble of changing res's. Is there any way to interupt Inshape while it's rendering to use the computer for other things? Chronos locks you out till it's done, and there should be a way around that. I think being able to "pause" inshape, (inShape would save everything it's done and whats left to do when its reactivated) is better than running under Geneva at the moment, but both features would serve everyone the best. Now all we need is a Jag chip set upgrade for the F030's Processer direct slot to do FAST ray tracing! Bman ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 24 Sun Oct 31, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 04:28 EST Ralf, Maybe Nathan could tell you if it InShape is compatible with the Turbo 030 since he has one? I'm might be interested in this software if it runs perfectly on the Fast Technology accelerator. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 25 Sun Oct 31, 1993 L.SQUIRE [Lance] at 09:35 EST John: Thank you. I figured the fly programs had the fractal routine in the limited DSP memory, BUT had NO idea a fractal could possably be done in integer math. :-) Ralph: Looking forward to seeing the update! Have run the demos & viewed the tiffs. Verry nice and fast to. I am now attempting to get it to run on my Falcon. NOW, What do we do with all these other files on here!? ;-) Lance ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 26 Sun Oct 31, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 10:44 EST I will certainly be happy to test InShape as soon as I get my Turbo 030 back. It is in for modifications. (I trashed my power supply.) ;-) Nathan ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 27 Sun Oct 31, 1993 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 22:25 EST I have a math co-processor in my Falcon, but how can I tell if it is an '881 or an '882? Also, how can I tell what speed it is? Th'Perfesser ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 28 Mon Nov 01, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 04:25 EST I thought the Falcon didnt' use a 881? But what do I know about such things! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 29 Mon Nov 01, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 10:00 EST First of all, the 68882 runs about 1.5 times faster than the 68881 and naturally costs more. :-) Both or either I should say, are totally compatible in the Falcon. If you can get a 68882 at a decent price, go for it! ;-) Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 30 Mon Nov 01, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:01 EST WARNING: extremely long post ahead! =') REALM, hi again. I am glad you've been able to 'navigate' around and render some scenes with InShape. We've been busy gathering 3D2 Files and testing InShape's IMPORT functions. So far we have been able to load every single 3D2 file we could find. Some had more than 4000 points and even more faces... If you don't want to print the entire READ.ME file, print the last part that lists some of the most commonly used keyboard shortcuts. It sure is a help if you do not have the excellent manual. ))) *,* \_/ Spud Boy, thanks for the nice words. Thanks also for ordering (no, we have not yet received it, but I am sure your order will be here soon). The InShape manual really takes you through all the features of the program, explaining the parameters, intentions, usage and keyboard shortcuts. At the end of the manual you will also find several examples and tutorials that help you to get a good understanding of InShape. Object Editor: The object editor has seen the biggest and most profound changes since Release 1.02 . Be assured that the new handling capabilities are _A LOT_ more comfortable and versatile than even the existing version. The user interface has been upgraded as well and looks really stunning. As I mentioned before, InShape is backed by a dedicated team of programmers and designers. I appreciate your ideas and suggestions and we will add it to our "User's Wish List' which we forward to the InShape team on a regular basis. Should you feel that you have any other good idea that you would like to see added... let's hear about it! Playback Utility: We are adding the *.IIM support to GEM-View. Further, negotiations are underway to provide an excellent TIFF player for all InShape users. We have used Stefan Becker's (of Papillon fame) PLAYER.PRG animation playback utility that can play *.TIF animations within a GEM window right on your desktop. Please watch our next press release for more details about the new animation player facilities. (PS: you can use the SHOW option of the InShape converter to view single frames in a number of different formats. Simply specify the file, then click on the SHOW button!). Bman, since we are trying to bring out another version of InShape that will also run on STs, Mega STs and STEs, we will also have to think about different video modes. Your idea of running in monochrome one of the things that we are looking into! (Obviously, you will then also be able to run this version in the duochrome mode of the Falcon or TT030). I am not sure right now if Release 1.00 or 1.02 already support the 'continue after pause' feature. You can however stop the current rendering process with CONTROL + LEFT SHIFT + ALT + RIGHT SHIFT. Restarting the current rendering is an entirely different story. As I said, I have to check if this is already possible with 1.00/1.02 or not. JAGUAR chip set: nice idea... now we would just need some hardware gurus and the best JAGUAR programmer to make it happen... *,* \_/ See Flat, we will certainly continue to conduct the compatibility tests. Any Turbo030 equipped system would be a nice playground for InShape. InShape is already fast on a Falcon... and on the TT030... but I really want to see it flying on one of Jims fast Turbo030's! Perfesser, good question! Well, (it always gets complicated when a sentence starts with: 'Well...') one way to find out is to open the case and peek under the power supply (at least that's where the FPU sits on some Falcons). The other is to use a small software utility that will check for the presence of an FPU and will then try to find out it's speed and type. The MC68881 and MC68882 are pin compatible, which means that they can be freely interchanged (provided they are of the same speed grade). The difference is that the MC68882 is approx. 1.5 times faster than the MC68881. Motorola lists the following performance indicators for the two FPU's: MC68881 16 MHz 20 MHz 25 MHz KFLOPs 160 192 240 MC68882 25 MHz 33 MHz KFLOPs 264 352 KFLOPs = Kilo Floating Point Operations per second I'll check if I can find a decent FPU utility program (otherwise we'll write one) and U/L it here on GEnie. OK? Fine, I think that's enough for one message. Ralf. PS: Don't miss our special FPU offer! For more details, read next message! =') ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 31 Mon Nov 01, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:25 EST ------------------------------------------------------------------- /////// S P E C I A L O F F E R ////// ------------------------------------------------------------------- Valid only while supplies last. We continously try to provide the best possible solutions for our customers and Atari users alike. We are very pleased to be able to offer you a small quantity of MC68882 Floating Point Coprocessors at an incredible low price. The normal CyReL list price for these devices is US $79 (Cdn $119). We now offer this limited quantity of MC68882 - 20 MHz for only US $39.00 Cdn $59.00 Please note: These are _NOT_ factory new parts. The parts have been checked and tested to make sure they work and function properly. These FPU's have been recycled during a routine system upgrade. If you would like to SAVE BIG and upgrade your system now, please send e-mail to CYBERCUBE to make sure that there is still enough stock. FPU's will be assigned on a first come, first serve basis. This is a one time offer. Only while supplies last. Please add $5 for S&H. Canadian prices excl. taxes. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 32 Tue Nov 02, 1993 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 23:00 EST I'm having a problem with the InShape demo. I am using a Falcon with a math co- processor, NVDI and ScreenBlaster. As far as I know the version of InShape that I have is 1.0 (if that's the one that was for downloading here on GEnie). I installed the program as the instructions required (although I had to copy the files into the InShape folders manually since the Install program didn't do it automatically). When I run the program, I get what looks like a work screen with what seems to be a "tool box" area along the left side and a box in the middle of the screen with three buttons in it. However, there is no text or icons anywhere on the screen and the program seems to hang at that point, necessitating a reboot. I tried disabling NVDI and ScreenBlaster to see if there was a conflict there, but I got the same results as before. Any idea what's going on? Th'Perfesser ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 33 Wed Nov 03, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:25 EST Did you run it in a 256 or 16 color mode? I haven't tried it on my Falcon yet as I haven't gotten my Math Chip yet. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 34 Wed Nov 03, 1993 C.OINES1 [Chazz] at 07:50 EST You've probably got Speedo enabled - Speedo interferes with using custom fonts in other programs for some reason. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 35 Wed Nov 03, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:26 EST Perfesser, I am sorry to hear that you had trouble running the InShape demo. Normally, the install program should copy all the files automatically into the correct directories (provided you extracted both archives onto two separate disks). We've tested the demo prior to U/L and it ran fine on our machine. However, I haven't had a chance to check it with NVDI or the ScreenBlaster. I would definetely be interested to know the results of your tests. Have you tried to run InShape in 16 or 256 color modes ? InShape has seen some dramatic changes since Release 1.00 or 1.02. The new version features a much improved user interface, better 3D styling (*grin*), resolution independence, AES/VDI/GEM compliance, and runs with multi-tasking systems like MiNT and much more. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 36 Wed Nov 03, 1993 L.SQUIRE [Lance] at 19:56 EST Perfesser: I had the same prob when I ran InShape Demo on my Falcon.(Just got the Math co!) After I disabled Sam & Speedo For the extra RAM, Every thing worked fine! Ralf: Well, Allmost. I can't seem to get either the Main prog or the Conv prog to work in True Colour mode. Both come up with stripes covering 1/2 the screen. The main prog uses 2 1/4 screen displays with small text. The Conv prog just hangs. Again I am using a 1224 + Full_Res.prg To get 640x480 TC(Or anything else!) Oh... And theres MONEY headed your way! :-) Lance ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 37 Wed Nov 03, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 21:00 EST B Man, Have you ever uploaded any of your animations? Please do, if you don't mind. I would love to see'em. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 38 Wed Nov 03, 1993 AEO.MAG [!] FSU #1 [!] at 22:32 EST Guys, I tried to run the InShape demo on my TT030 in TT Medium resolution and I got just what the Perfesser got. Tool boxes and a dialog in the middle of the screen with no text. (I did find that pressing RETURN would make the dialog go away, and if I then pressed CONTROL-Q, another dislog would appear, and pressing RETURN again would exit the demo. During this time, the mouse pointer would move, but the buttons would not be read correctly - clicking anywhere on the screen would give me the "bell" I get when I normally click outside of a dialog box. Oh yeah, the menus wouldn't drop down either after I made the first dialog go away.) Then after reading that there may be a conflict somehow with SpeedoGDOS, I disabled Speedo and re-booted. Voila! the InShape demo ran perfectly! This is a neat program!!! Since I am graphically retarded (!), I can't do too much other than turn the pre-created objects into misshapen blobs (and then render them in True Color!), but just dinkering around with the demo makes me wish I could do something with it. Ralf, 'tis a fine program you have here sir. --Travis ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 39 Thu Nov 04, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:38 EST Lance, I'm pretty sure the Inshape Demo says it only runs in 16 and 256 color modes. True Color is not considered a 16 or 256 color mode.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 40 Thu Nov 04, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 03:48 EST Sorry Spud but all my reel(real) animations or on either 16mm or super 8, I never got to do much with Chronos on my stock Mega, just too damn slow. IS works with my NVDI and SB 800*600*16. I also noticed you can use the .APP in 2 color for much faster rendering! Bman ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 41 Thu Nov 04, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:27 EST B Man, it's not chronos that is slow, it is the ST. If you look at modeling/rendering/animations packages on other platforms they all recommend pretty powerfull platforms. 60030/68040 with math chips. You can see that the InShape people just bypassed the whole ST line and I have been lead to believe that if you try to do animations Chrons style with InShape it will take much longer than Chronos would on a TT with math chip. Joey could verify this perhaps? John B. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 42 Thu Nov 04, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 20:23 EST Lance, the InShape demo runs in 16 and 256 color modes. I will check if there is a difference between the full release and the demos in that regard. I think, these modes are the best compromise when it comes to resolution. They will give you the best displays at a minimum of 640x480. InShape actually switches modes when you use the Shader or the converter program to give you the best approximation to the real 24 bit color image it is computing or converting. And thanks for your order. We will try to fill it as fast as possible. Please watch also for the planned InShape RTC announcement. Travis, thanks for all the nice words and your suggestion about SpeedoGDOS. I will report this back to the programmers to check whether we can fix this in a more appropriate way. I've been toying around with InShape myself today and until now I believed that you could only assign one material (surface, pattern) for the _WHOLE_ object. THIS IS NOT TRUE! You can assign a different material to every single _FACE_ of your object if you wish to do so. I've created a sphere with marble, wood, plastic, gold, diamond and leafgreen surfaces. It certainly looks stunning. Especially if you do a small animation and the multi-surface sphere starts spinning. Next, you could apply things like ripples and bumps and wrinkles and... well, try it for yourself. Enter the object editor. Change to PLANE mode (click into the workarea, select the icon with the three connected 'dots'), now simply click into the face you want to change, then select change surface (of the selected faces) and choose any material you like! Bman, yes, we would certainly like to see some of works, yours or the work of others that might like to share their creations here with us! See Flat, we never claimed that InShape would be the fastest rendering/raytracing program. It actually never set out to be. Rather, InShape represents an impressive array of some very complex mathematical functions, geared towards their application in a visual environment. Let me just demonstrate this with a very simple example. Suppose, we would like to render a urban landscape scene, complete with high rise buildings (those 'trendy' glass & steel towers), a square with a fountain and a small pool, some concrete monuments, grassy patches, asphalt covered roads, lamp posts... and a wonderful early morning sky with clouds and a little bit of haze. InShape can do it all! It probably gives you one of the most accurate renderings of glassy objects (complete with refraction & translucency) and water effects. You can even add some (fully automatically) animated waves in your pool. You can add bumps, dents, even the effects of corrosion to your materials, like steel, concrete or asphalt. There is also a number of predefined natural (flora) surfaces for your 'greener' areas. You can add up to 128 lightsources for each single scene (plenty enough even for a long road with LOTS of lamp posts). But the truly amazing thing is the almost endless array of special effects you can create with the hemisphere controls. Add your own color fading for the sky. Add clouds, add turbulence, determine the general color of your ambient light (make it redish for those nice sunset scenes) and then introduce some fog or haze to make your far objects slowly disappear in the mist... All these 'extras' must be concidered and they add _MUCH_ to the realism you want to create with such animations and scenes. And this is certainly more time consuming than then what a simple rendering process will do with the same set of objects. Furthermore, even some of the most expensive systems are busily humming away during many nightly hours to complete those stunning and captivating animations you will then later get to see on the silver screen or your TV tube. We found that most animators agreed with us in this regard. If you go about to spend the time to render something, why not do it right the first time? Spend a bit more time setting it up properly. Consider you options and available extra features to add that special touch and then trust it all to a rendering/raytracing program that will incorporate it all and do a fine, professional looking job the first time around. Why settle for something less? OK, guys, thanks for your participation today. I really look forward to see you all at the upcoming InShape RTC (watch the announcement next week). Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 43 Thu Nov 04, 1993 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 22:32 EST Thanks to all for the advice on getting InShape to run with the Falcon. The problem was, indeed, an incompatibility with SpeedoGDOS. Once Speedo was disabled, InShape ran fine. Now, I have one more question: I rendered the Example 2 (the ABC objects). I did it while I was in the next room teaching a figure drawing class so I couldn't keep an accurate watch on it, but I believe it took over two hours to complete. Does that sound right? If so, and if that's considered fast....hmmmmm.....Does InShape work with Jim Allen's accelerators on the ST by any chance (I hope, I hope)? Otherwise, I won't be doing much rendering while at work....(gotta use the computer to do school stuff, ya know). Also, the rendering was done in tones of gray while the video mode was 16 color. Is that correct? I'll play around with the demo some more, but I'll probably be coughing up some cash for the program RSN. It sounds exciting. Th'Perfesser ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 44 Fri Nov 05, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 02:29 EST Ralf, the package sounds very nice. I wasn't knocking InShape when I mentioned speed. Just jumping in the conversation for my own benefit of gaining information. You see your post gave me a lot more info about InShape that I didn't know. :-) The reason I bought a T030 was because I learned a while ago that if you want to get into 3d rendering and animation you need the hardware to do it in a more efficient way. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 45 Fri Nov 05, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:44 EST Perfesser, 2 Hours? My TT did it in about 20 minutes which is pretty fast for a Raytracer. From what I can tell it renders everything in grey scale but thats only the preview mode. If you load the finished image into a True Color Viewer like GEMview you'll find it's got all kinds of colors! The ABC image looks really good! See Flat, You sure you want my opinion?:-) I think Inshape is already better then Chronos. Chronos is faster but the results aren't even comparable. I haven't played with Inshape enough to go in to details but I can tell from the samples and a few minutes of toying around it's a lot more advanced then Chrono's. Sounds like the porgrammers are out to make it an excellent program as well so I have high hopes it will be the animation program we all crave! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 46 Fri Nov 05, 1993 VORTEXT at 10:59 EST Realm. 20 minutes? My TT took nearly the 2 hours. Interesting. Hmmm. I did it just as the docs said to. Did you cut any corners? Change any of the rendering settings? Just asking. Daniel ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 47 Fri Nov 05, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:59 EST Perfesser, the present versions of InShape already run on any Atari that offers the basic hardware requirements (68030, FPU, 640x480 with at least 16 colors). And we have scheduled several tests to check if we can expand the possible user base by relaxing these requirements. Jim Allen's boards are certainly very likely candidates for such experiments. But please understand that I cannot give you more details until we've completed these tests. You can influence the rendering speed in several ways. First, look at all those extra 'goodies' (like transparency, clouds, fog etc) and check whether you will really need them to render your image. Next, render several pictures and change the # of iterations per pixel during each pass and compare the results. This value should range between 1 and 20. For test pictures, set it relatively low, otherwise, enter at least 5. But here is another tip to speed up rendering. Consider if there are any objects or planes that do not necessarily contribute to your picture and if there is a possibility to deselect them... making them 'invisible' to the shader, thus speeding up the rendering process. To deselect faces, enter the object editor. Enter the EDGE or PLANE mode. Select the planes you don't want by clicking inside the plane, then click on the icon that shows the '[]->O' symbol (square, arrow, circle). This will hide the selected planes. InShape will generate a 'control' or 'in-process' display while rendering the actual 24-bit image. The quality of the control display will depend on the current video mode (16, 256 colors or more). See Flat, Joey, VORTEXT, thanks for your comments. Have a look at the post above in regards to the rendering speed. InShape is an integrated product. It combines a sophisticated object editor (have you ever tried to enter an object as long columns of signed floating point values in plain ASCII? Then you know what relief you can have!), keyframe animator and a 24-bit rendering/shading engine. We feel that it represents excellent value for money if you consider the US $189.00 introductory offer (with Trade-In rebate). Just check out any contending offers, whether it is on an Amiga, Mac or PC. OK, guys. Thanks for a terrific week! We've never expected so much interest and feedback... and we sure hope we can ship all those orders as fast as possible. Have a nice weekend... and see you here next week! Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 48 Fri Nov 05, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:05 EST Joey, of course I want your opinion. You have a lot of experience with graphics and I dont' think you are prejudiced. I read a comparative review written by Yat Siu on CIS but in my better judgement I have to assume that even with the best intentions he might be a little biassed. When you say "InShape is already better than Chronos" how do you mean. As an animation package? I'm sure it's a better renderer. But am I mistaken or did I read InShape only does 256 colors? I have also read that InShape does not support any graphics card on the market. I should d/l the demo to see if it runs on the t030. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 49 Fri Nov 05, 1993 E.WELLS at 21:11 EST I was going to ask price, but they it was stated $189 with trade-in rebate. What if you don't already own it? Is it more? EHW ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 50 Fri Nov 05, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 23:02 EST Joey, I think It will run in any 80 column mode or better. I Sure hope it will run in True Color modes. If it doesn't I just bought a Cyrel Color card for nothing. I guess that is a little harsh, I will still enjoy the card (grin), but I will be disappointed if I can't watch the true color pics being rendered on the screen. B Man, Did I hear you say you also purchased InShape? See Flat, If you turn all of InSahpes bells and whistles on it WILL take longer to render than Chronos (or Phoenix). But remember you are getting a superior image! Chronos CAN'T do raytracing, image mapping, or texture mapping. In fact Chronos can't even change the color of an object. Phoenix, (the other Lexicor renderer) can do image mapping and texture mapping (only marble and wood are supported). InShapes rendering is better than anything Lexicor has out. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 51 Sat Nov 06, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 00:56 EST Ralf, Is there an UNDO feature in the program? For example, if I am trying to build an object and make a mistake, is there a way to go back a step? Also, is there an easy way to aim lights and Cameras? I am not proficient at guessing how many degrees I need to move the camera or a light to make sure something is correct. It would also be nice if you could use the mouse more, or use it less. Right now it seems there are only things that can be done with the mouse (ie there is no keyboard equivelent) and other things that can only be done with keys. For example, how about have mouse adjustable sliders for ALL of the numbers that need to be input. I think the way the color sliders work is great, and would like to see something like that for the other dialogues, especially the translate and scale ones. I am glad to see software that supports the more advanced Atari computers. I can't wait for it to arrive!!! I am gonna camp out at the post office... I saw an ad in a PC magazine that was just a rendering program withou Raytracing OR animation...it cost $1,700. We are getting a bargain with InSHape! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 52 Sat Nov 06, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 03:45 EST Spud Boy, At this point Chronos is not meant to be used as a renderer. It is meant to be an animation builder and then you can render your animations with Phoenix using ANM-Link to port them over. Pheonix 2 will do more than wood and marble. You can recolor any faces using CyberColor. I am very impressed with the feature that Ralf mentioned concerning InShape being able to assign different textures to individual faces on a single object. Concerning other platforms. That is the main reason I am still on the Atari. I don't pirate software and when I looked at changing platforms the price of software was worth my trying to make my Atari more modern. Have you seen Autodesk's 3D studio. It costs about $3500 where I live. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 53 Sat Nov 06, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:11 EST Vortext, Hmmm... maybe it wasn't the ABC that took 20 minutes, now that you mention it? I doubt my TT's any faster then yours.:-) I'm probably confusing it with one of the other one's. See Flat, I'm not prejudice, I hate everone.:-) Thats sarcasm BTW.:-) I think both Chronos and Inshape have there strong points and weak points. I haven't used Inshape enough to make an informed opinion on how they compare. What I like so far is Inshape is a complete system all nicely compacted into a single multi-purpose program. It's also nice to see the programmers hard at work on the next update. Any Atari software where the programmers are actually considering an update is a program you should buy.:-) Spud Boy, Cybercube sells the Sunrise card, Cybercube handles Inshape... I would guess theres a strong possibilty that Inshape will eventually support the Sunrise card.:-) It may already work in the 256 color mode, I haven't tried it yet. I know you can use GEMview to look at the results on the card.:- ) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 54 Sat Nov 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 09:45 EST Make sure you come to the Real Time Conference on Nov. 29th. The guest will be Ralf Doewich of Cybercube and the topic is InShape. BTW, there will be a door prize - InShape!!!! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 55 Sat Nov 06, 1993 E.WELLS at 10:58 EST I pulled the demo off GEnie last night and was up till 430am playing with it. I'm very impressed. Does IS handle morphing? Also, there is a co convert program that converts the IIM (and a few others, DEGAS of all t things) into IIM or TIFF. I'm curious, will the full purchased version be able to convert to TGA or maybe even JPEG? I was very impressed with the speed with which it saved the TIFF, but it also wasn't compressed. Eagerly awaiting more info...Is the price 189 or is that for 1.0 and then there is an upgrade fee for 2.0 or will 2.0 be 189? If the price is close I'm positive I'll buy... EHW ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 56 Sat Nov 06, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 17:20 EST See Flat, I was not aware that ANM-Link ir Phoenix 2 were available. I had heard rumors that ANM-Link was gonna cost another $79...If you add the cost of Phoenix, ANM-Link, and Chronos it costs MORE than In-Shape 2.0. I am disappointed in the resolution of Phoenix. I have already reached its limit of placing pixels in 3d space. The images I have done have already reached the complextity where Phoenix makes mistakes when it places the pixels. If you like I will upload some of the pictures I have done to point out what I mean. Joey, Do you have a Cyrel card? ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 57 Sat Nov 06, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 20:11 EST Spud Boy, You are half right, Phoenix 2 is not quite here. ANM-Link is released and can be ordered. It lists for 69.95. Cyber Color is 59.00 Chronos is 249.00 Phoenix I think is 89.00 All four would make it 466.95, The PR sheet I have states that InShape 2 is 489.00 So they are about the same price. Are you using Phoenix on a Graphics card? Since I have had a little missadventure with my graphics card I can't really look at images in their true resolutions and color. When I get it back I would like to see examples of the faulty Phoenix renders. I'm still debating if I'll d/l the InShape demo to test on my t030. :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 58 Sat Nov 06, 1993 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 23:02 EST I must admit that I'm a wee bit confused (not unusual for me...). On a couple of things. First, I'm ordering InShape for my Falcon, but I'm wondering if InShape 1.02 is available for the Falcon, or just for the TT? The Press Release indicates it runs on both, but then the hardware requirements specify that the TT is required. Also, is the only difference between 1.0 and 1.02 the rendering resolution? Is 1.02 available now? Next, about the FPU. I have an '882 in my Falcon. According to the dealer who installed it for me it is a 16 Mz version. He says he believes that anything faster won't work in the Falcon. However, CyberCube has indicated that there are also 25 & 33 Mz versions of the '882. In addition, they are apparently selling a (used?) 20 Mz version. Can anyone straighten all this out for me? Can the faster versions function properly in the Falcon? Do modifications need to be made to the Falcon to run them? Would the 25/33 Mz versions make a significant difference in InShape rendering speeds compared to the 16 Mz version? Thanks, Th'Perfesser ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 59 Sun Nov 07, 1993 VORTEXT at 00:18 EST Well, I'm anxiously awaiting my InShape order so that I may see what the full blown package can do. So far I've been unable to get the demo working in TC, but then, I think it's not supposed to. I'm waiting for the real thing before I start passing judgment or complaining. With everything I have on my system, if it works on my machine, it'll work anywhere. I seem to be the only person I know who has the problems getting programs to run that I do. I also have Chronos and the other packages that go with it. I like the thought of having it all in ONE program like InShape. If it works as well as advertised, there will most likely be some Phase IV stuff for sale. Cheap. Daniel ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 60 Sun Nov 07, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 00:34 EST Spud Boy, Sure do!! Got one a couple months ago and love it! It still needs a few tweaks here and there but overall it works great. Cybercube has done really well providing updates and fix's about once a month. Prism Paint works in the 256 color modes and GEMview works in the True Color modes. Of coarse Calamus SL and Outline 3 work in every mode. It's funny to see them with no dithering everything is smoothly shaded. Perfesser, Its my understanding the chip is rated for 25Mhz. It's sort of like a maximum speed. You can put it in your Falcon but it'll only operate at 16Mhz unless you do some modifications. Jim Allen said he thought you could easily add a 33Mhz chip by cutting a few traces and switching the 16Mhz oscilator (sp?) for a 33Mhz Oscilator. That would give you a Math Chip actually running at 33Mhz. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 61 Mon Nov 08, 1993 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 01:12 EST It seems to me that the appropriate place to be discussing Phoenix is the Phoenix topic - Cat 7 topic 34. I would encourage all further discussion of Phoenix and Phoenix 2 to take place there. Likewise for anyone having problems with Phoenix that seems the best place to address it and perhaps find solutions, rather than in another vendor's topic. On other services a feud seems to be developing that is being fueled by one company directly and by an associate of another company. This strikes me as being unprofessional of both parties, and I'd be very dissapointed to see it begin here as well, even if incited by the users. In the real world a raytracer and an interpolating (scanline, rasterizing, etc) renderer are not competitive, as both use different means to achieve different ends. However the reality of the Atari market means that the two do become competitive. Each approach is well suited to particular tasks, and VERY bad at others. I'll be happy to discuss in the Phoenix topic what Phoenix/ANM-Link/Chronos are bad at. -------------------------- Ralf: I read in one of your posts the following: - The InShape raytracer is one of very few raytracers that actually - render water, transparency, glass, crystal, diamonds etc - CORRECTLY and accurately! Are you saying that InShape properly handles caustics (particularly shadows) and the refraction of light at different wavelengths? I am even more impressed if so since these are important parts of a physically correct rendering of such refractive materials, and quite difficult to implement. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 62 Mon Nov 08, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 01:29 EST Spud, not yet. I want to see a demo of version 2.0 and its better user interface. Bman ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 63 Mon Nov 08, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 03:42 EST I think John Stanford's points are well taken. As far as I'm concerned I think the most information users share helps everyone. I am not a biassed type of person. If I find InShape can do different things for I will get it to compliment what my other graphics packages I have will not do. The most important rule to follow I would think that any developer should take into consideration when at all possible is compatibility. The more programs share files, the more power the users end up with. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 64 Mon Nov 08, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 15:56 EST John ... You are partially correct. Of the 4-5 dozen posts on InShape over on Compuserve, members of the Lexicor staff have made maybe 90% of them. I made a few feature list posts as a favor to Cybercube who do not log onto that service. A few other people have posted, even one potential customer, Mr. Brenner, who also frequents GEnie (hi John) ;-) but most of the posts about InShape have been made by the Lexicor staff doing their absolute best to assist people to reach Lexicors perception of the quality of InShape. Fortunately, the DEMO speaks for itself, as does Cybercube's excellent reputation and quality products. Very few people are giving much credibility to _reviews_ by Yat Siu or editorials by John Cole on the pros and cons of InShape, recognizing that Yat and John are just a tad BIASED! ;-) Pardon me if I simply ignore Lee. There is no feud. There is simply yet another example of the manner in which Lexicor chooses to conduct business. I imagine that Cybercube will be able to tell quite soon whether their understanding of the potential for a quality product such as InShape for the North American market was correct or not as I'll guess that the response to their competitive upgrade to existing Lexicor customers is starting to arrive at Cybercubes office. In the meantime, I did Cybercube a favor and posted their InShape press release on boards they do not frequent and I posted a follow-up feature list. Those interested will be able to reach Cybercube right here or via Internet and the Lexicor staff can continue posting back and forth to themselves until they finally realize how obvious they have become. John Stanford, I applaud your decision to continue to support your customers on GEnie. Sincerely Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 65 Mon Nov 08, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:05 EST Hi guys, whoa, let me catch up with you first. Lotsa things to read, nice! E.Wells, the trade-in offer refers to _ANY_ rendering or animation program, not only InShape itself. So, if you already own such a program, please photocopy the _ORIGINAL_ disks (so that the labels will be clearly visible), add or photocopy the serial #'s as well, fill out the order form and mail it in. It's that easy! Spud Boy, use of the mouse aiming of the lights/camera: Hmmm... I've been working with so many beta copies lately that I first have to check out what is already available in the DEMO, INTRO and 1.02 versions. The new versions allow easy positioning with the mouse (which is quite some fun, since you can instantly 'fly' around almost anything...). If you would like to change the view point and camera position, here are some keyboard short-cuts that should also be available in the DEMO version: To change the POSITION, use the following keys: to reduce X ............ ( to increase X .......... ) to reduce Y ............ 7 to increase Y .......... 8 to reduce Z ............ 4 to increase Z .......... 5 To change the POINT OF VIEW, use these keys: to reduce X ............ / to increase X .......... * to reduce Y ............ 9 to increase Y .......... - to reduce Z ............ 6 to increase Z .......... + Now, all of the above listed keys can be used with the following to influence the 'step size': without special keys ... 1 LEFT SHIFT ............. 10 LEFT SHIFT + CNTRL ..... 100 LEFT SHIFT + CNTRL + ALT 1000 Next, check whether you want to use the Normal, Tele or Wide Angle lenses for additional camera control. To check your settings, switch from the CAMERA view to TOP, FRONT or RIGHT for a quick reference. Lights will be displayed as yellow dots. Spotlights will also show their heading with an yellow orientation vector. Your suggestions about the sliders for better 'enter value' control will be added to our 'user's wish list' and sent to the InShape design team. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 66 Mon Nov 08, 1993 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 19:27 EST Nathan: It takes two to tango. I'm just saying that I'd be very disapointed if a similar situation appears here on Genie. JCS ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 67 Mon Nov 08, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:50 EST Spud Boy, InShape pricing: yes, you are right. InShape has been priced very reasonable and we feel it still is a quality product, despite what some might think when they just look at the price. Our entry level offer starts at just US $189 (with Trade-In rebate) and you get a fully integrated program consisting of a object editor, keyframe editor and shader! Everything you need in a nice, easy-to-use package. ^,^ \_/ Joey, thanks about your comments. We are very excited about the new possibilities that we can now offer to our users. Being in the unique position to produce the CyReL SUNRISE M16-1280 True Color Graphics Cards and now distributor for InShape, we will offer a number of new products designed to take advantage of this combination of quality products. But the next update of InShape will _NOT_ be limited to just _OUR_ range of products. As a matter of fact, the InShape team is working very hard to produce an more open, flexible system that will allow you to tie in _YOUR_ existing (and maybe future) resources. We pride ourselves in having a vision that goes beyond our own pile of products. If you feel that you might have been 'left out' by any of my previous remarks, please indicate this, so that I can correct any misunder- standings. The CyReL and InShape range of products are designed to support the Atari platform, not only our own offers. On the other hand, we will use the upcoming opportunities to deliver a fully integrated package, consisting of the CyReL M16-1280 graphics cards, the InShape software, the VidiMix Desktop Video modules as well as the CyReL AccuFrame VTR recording utilities. /// *,* \_/ Lou, thanks for reminding me to spread the word about the scheduled InShape RTC on Nov. 29th, 1993. I hope that everybody will drop by, so that we can discuss InShape in a more 'vivid and lively' environment. *,< \_/ Oh, BTW, before I forget this... we will be giving away one copy of InShape 1.02 (full version!) as a door prize! E.WELLS, please donwload our InShape Press Release for all the details about pricing, upgrades, Trade-In and future releases. Please check out library 14 (press releases) and search for INSHAPE or the CYREL keywords. (Sorry, I don't have the file # handy right now!) Be sure to read the READ.ME file on the DEMO disks as well. It contains numerous tips, a quick introduction and even a small tutorial. About the additional file formats (TGA/JPEG): We are adding the IIM file format support to GEM-View right now. This will enable all InShape users to do a multitude of cross conversions to and from the IIM base format. The IIM format has been choosen to speed up the actual image mapping or rendering process yes, you can use the previous frame as a image mapping source when rendering an animation!). If you have any more questions, please feel free to ask. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 68 Mon Nov 08, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 20:10 EST Perfesser, my apologies for the confusing PR about the 1.00 and 1.02 versions. InShape 1.00 (INTRO) had been designed specifically for the FALCON030. But it now runs on the TT as well. *grin* InShape 1.02 had been designed as a TT030 only version. But it now runs on the FALCON030 as well. *gringrin* To make a long story short: Yes, both versions now run on either machine. The INTRO version is limited to 1280x960 as the maximum rendering resolution and being offered for the casual or novice user, somebody who might want to explore the wonderful world of graphics, without committing himself to the 1.02 version. Remeber, you can always upgrade (and even save a little, should you decide to register) to the next higher level. Now to that FPU business: *,* \_/ First, you can almost always install a faster type of the same chip in your computer. But in order to use the extra power provided by the higher speed grade, something in your system must be changed as well. The Falcon runs fine with 16 MHz FPU's. That's what it has been designed for. We offer the MC68882 20 MHz versions for a reduced price (since they are NOT factory new parts, but nonetheless, work fine) and they will only run at 16 MHz in your Falcon unless you decide to change a few things in hardware. The same goes for the 25 and 33 MHz versions. They will simply run at 16 MHz in an unmodified Falcon. In the TT, there is a jumper with which you can select either a 16 MHz or 32 MHz operation. Note, that the CPU and FPU clock speeds may differ. They do not have to necessarily be the same! If you have any other hardware or software related question, please don't hesitate to ask. Simple speed test between the MC68882-16 MHz and MC68882-32 MHz in a TT030: I've just made a quick test to verify the speed difference between the 16 MHz and 32 MHz operation in a TT. Here are the results (all conditions were the same, except the different FPU clock) FPU MC68882-16 48.76 seconds FPU MC68882-32 31.99 seconds From this, you can see that the 32 MHz version runs at 152.4% of the speed of the 16 MHz version. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 69 Mon Nov 08, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 20:31 EST John, I've been toying around with a lot of transparent, glassy and 'watery' objects lately and I must say that I am impressed with the results. We are in the process of compiling a number of rendered images that show the strength of InShape in that particular area. Let me assure you that I deeply regret the tendencies that have become apparent on other information networks in regards to our products. I am a bit puzzled about all this fuzz. As you pointed out, InShape does some things extremely well, while others still need improvement and refinement. I am the first to admit that, and this is one of the tasks that we are trying to accomplish here. An open and _CONSTRUCTIVE_ discussion with users to review ideas and seek better solutions. And I fully agree with you. This is the InShape topic and I am urging everyone to please respect this and take the discussion of other products to their appropriate topics. We at Cybercube have pledged to provide honest and fair product support for the programs and items we offer. And I would really appreciate it, if this concept would be adopted by other vendors as well. We are here to inform users about our solutions and applications and not to offend everybody by continually spreading a negative atmosphere. If any of my comments have failed to do so, please be so kind and bring it to my attention. I will do my best to stick to our own rules. Further, I would like to congratulate you on the fine product support you have been providing. There are plenty of new opportunities ahead. Let us try to make the best of them, in an optimistic and constructive spirit. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 70 Mon Nov 08, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 20:37 EST John ... I have no interest in _tango-ing_ with you at all. ;-) I did suggest that all those oh so helpful comments about InShape made by Lexicor elsewhere could be better addressed right here. In fact, you asked a few InShape questions yourself over on Compuserve. Please, if you have a question or concern about InShape, ask it here so that Cybercube can handle it directly. Sincerely Nathan Potechin - DMC Publishing ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 71 Mon Nov 08, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 20:59 EST See Flat, I would recommend that you D/L Inshape Demo. It really is a different class foprogram than the Lexicor stuff. It runs on my TT just fine as long as I don't use Speedo. I don't have my Cyrel Color card yet, I have been waiting two weeks for it...right now I have been viewing pics in either TTLOW or on my Falcon. Ralf, I found a limitation of InShape DEMO which I hope has been addressed in the real versions of the program. When I import Cybersculpt 3D2 files all of the points are set to Sharp. This prevents all of the polygons edges from being smoothed out when being shaded. If I were to create an image using InShape I would set the points I wanted to be smoothed to smooth in the Template editor. But since I can only import into the Object I can't adjust this important parameter. Also I noticed that the file is read as if there were only one object in it. For example I have a jet that I made in Cybersculpt which has turbines inside of the engine cases. IS treats all of the little pieces as one object. This seems like it will cause trouble when it comes to grabbing the little pieces I planned to animate. Maybe things will be more clear once I get the real program. I thought I would let you know so it can be fixed or let everyone know that it is not a problem. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 72 Mon Nov 08, 1993 E.WELLS at 21:13 EST Ralf, Great to hear about IIM in GemView. Let me make sure I understand this. I can purchase the current version of INSHAPE for $189 by sending photocopies of my current software and S#'s? Is IS shipping now? And does it have hiearchial linking? That last one is important! EHW ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 73 Mon Nov 08, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 23:35 EST Ralp: Do you know if IS uses Delta's? Like if an animation has say a 12 frame Hold, will it render the first of the 12 frames then see that nothing has changed and just copy the same frame for the 11 other? I suggested this feature for Chronos, but they didn't seem to think it was needed. I t would save much time and should not be to hard to add to IS. There is alot to mess with in the demo, just wish I had the manual. Bman ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 74 Tue Nov 09, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 01:19 EST Spud Boy, I don't have a TT. I D/L the demo anyway since I know someone with a Falcon. He had no Math chip. I tried running it on my 030 but I got a Minimum of 640 by 480 resolution neccessary! You gotta admit. I tried. :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 75 Tue Nov 09, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:31 EST John, I don't think anyone's had a specific Phoenix question... I have been wrong though.:-) Please don't take my comments the wrong way, I love Phoenix. It's still a must have product in my book! I plan to keep using it for a long time. If you guys want to keep the peace in this topic I have a simple method... Don't enter comparison discussions.:-) Well... if you want to correct errors, OK... but nothing else.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 76 Tue Nov 09, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 21:27 EST See Flat, Your tenacity is to be admired! Maybe your friend will get that math chip.... ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 77 Wed Nov 10, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:31 EST Tim, CyReL card: I've been informed that the card you've ordered has been shipped and you should get it shortly. If you have more M16-1280 related questions, please address them in CAT 16, TOP 12 (the CyReL M16-1280 topic). Smooth and Normal points: InShape offers you the ability to change every single point to and from the SMOOTH mode. Smooth points are being displayed as small circles, whereas normal points appear as little boxes. Press the right mouse button, then move the mouse to open a rubber-box. Enclose the points you want to convert. Release the mouse key and select INSIDE in the pop-up menu. Next, please select the []->O icon (convert normal points to smooth points). If you look at the GOBLET.ISC or GOBLET.IOB files, you can see the two different point modes! Splitting one object into several smaller ones, assigning different names to groups of faces: The effect that you described in regards to loading a group of objects in the 3D2 file format is correct. After you imported the objects, you can then group them and assign them to different layers. Hmmm... describing every step of the way will be a bit lengthy (since you can also assign different materials to each face), but basically you can split up such an imported object into smaller entities which can then be controlled separately. You can also smooth out any bumps and dents, scale, rotate, distort and transform the newly assigned layers. E.WELLS, yep, that's right. Simply provide proof that you currently own any of the qualifying program types by copying the original disk's labels and serial #'s and you are eligible for the US $50 rebate. Have a look at the INSHAPE1.LZH press release in library 14 for more details. InShape 1.00 (INTRO) and InShape 1.02 are available right now. Version 2.0 is still in BETA testing and we will keep you updated on the progress. In InShape a scene is being build by adding objects to the Hierarchy window. Open this window by pressing the left mouse button in the scene editor's work area. The hierarchy determined the dependencies of objects. All objects placed lower in the hierarchy will automatically adopt the movements of the higher placed object. To test this for yourself, simply load e.g. the ROBOT.ISC file and have a look at the hierarchy window and the default parameter settings. The hollow or filled circle behing the hierarchy window entries indicate the use of either a point or spot light respectively. B Man, InShape allows you the full control over the starting frame, # of frames and end frame, as well as the start keyframe and end keyframe you want to consider in an animation (or even just a part of an animation). Thus, you can simply skip any redundant frames. If you let InShape do the rendering and 'inbetweening' automatically, then InShape will try to avoid such situations by using the best possible camera path and movement. The way how the camera is being moved along the camera path can be determined by the spline path parameters. But you can also instruct InShape to tediously render the same frame 10 times or whatever you might like best. A new animation player is coming that will allow you to play back not only *.IIM or *.TIF sequences but *.FLI and *.FLC animations as well. *.IIM support is being added to GEM-View. So you can even convert the rendered output to whatever other format you might require. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 78 Thu Nov 11, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 00:13 EST Ralf, Thanks for the insight on how to change the smoothness. I looked at each icon on the panel in the object editor and couldn't find one that smoothed them in version 1.0 Demo. This is not important though since it is obviously incorporated in later vesions. PS I got the color card today. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 79 Thu Nov 11, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:38 EST Spud Boy, I'll check that again. I thought the demo versions could do that as well. Hmm... I'll have the answer for you by tomorrow. InShape Press Releases: We are getting a lot of calls inquiring about InShape. Some of the most commonly asked questions: Availability of InShape: Versions 1.00 (INTRO) and 1.02 are available right now. Version 2.00 has not been released yet. Upgradeability: You can upgrade at any time. Registered customers can save $10 when upgrading. Trade-In Offer: Simply photocopy the labels of any animation and rendering programs you already own, copy the serial #'s as well and include these photocopies when you order. Provided you own the orginal disks, you are eligible for the $50 rebate. Pricing: A detailed price list can be found in the INSHAPE1.LZH file in library 14. The entry level InShape package starts at US $189 (with Trade-In rebate). Delivery: Normal delivery is via mail. Courier service is available. Contact Cybercube in case you wish to obtain rush service. InStant Objects: Due to increasing user demand, we would like to explore the possibilities of offering disks with ready-to-use objects. If you would like to participate, whether as a provider of such objects or as a interested user, please send e-mail to Cybercube. We will also try to set up a special forum to facilitate the exchange of such data/services from user to user. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 80 Fri Nov 12, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:40 EST Tim, in order to 'smooth' objects, you have to be in the edge mode in the object editor (click on the icon right besides the 'i' icon, then select the 'dot-line-dot' symbol to enter the edge mode). Next, select the 'edge' you want to smooth (click on both ends to properly select it). Smooth edges are being displayed in grey, sharp edges will be shown in black. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 81 Fri Nov 12, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:44 EST InShape RTC on Nov. 29th, 1993: We will be hosting a special InShape Real Time Conference on November 29th, 1993 right here on GEnie. I would like to invite everybody to drop by so that we can discuss a whole range of very exciting features. And don't miss your chance to win our doorprize. We will be giving away a complete INSHAPE 1.02 package (SRP US $369). Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 82 Sat Nov 13, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 00:22 EST I will definitely log on to that RTC! I will hit the object editor again (grin). ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 83 Sat Nov 13, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 02:39 EST Ralf, that's cool , when you give InShape away as a prize it is worth big bucks, when you sell it, it is a bargain. Is that marketing or what! ;-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 84 Sat Nov 13, 1993 VORTEXT at 20:41 EST Here's something I wish could be 'fixed'. I just tried rendering the robot arm animation, for fun. I used the standard settings that came up and left it alone. Interesting thing happened. Some 20+ hours into it, (it was on a pace to take about 24 to render all 50 frames) the computer tells me I've run out of internal memory, and to use the FOLDR100.PRG to fix the problem. Couldn't there be some way to check this before hand? Before getting almost all the way through a long process, only to have to start all over again? Daniel ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 85 Sun Nov 14, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 13:16 EST Vortext, I had never seen that message until I started using DATAlite. I am not saying that is the cause, it might just be a coincidence. The most amazing thing is I have been running FOLDR200. for a long time. I dont' think I've seen the message since using TOS 2.06 So I guess to be safe you better install FOLDRXXX as big as you can afford too. John ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 86 Sun Nov 14, 1993 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 17:26 EST So Ralf; I have sent in my order for InShape 1.0. Hope to be seeing it in my mail soon :-). However, I'm still wondering what the differences between 1.0 and 1.02 are. Is just a difference in rendering resolutions? (Maybe you answered this already and I just missed it.) Th'Perfesser ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 87 Mon Nov 15, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:56 EST WARNING: extremely long post ahead! Spud Boy, fine, I would certainly like to welcome all of you at the RTC. *,* \_/ So tell all your friends about it, and don't forget Aunt Agatha and your granny! *grin* See Flat, you got it! I could have advertised the SRP after 1/1/94 for an even more dramatic effect! I have to admit that I really miss the drums the spotlights and the fog! \\\ *,* \_/ Daniel, I am really surprised about the error message you got. I'm going to report that ASAP back to the InShape design team. Before InShape attempts to render a scene or animation, it probes the assigned HD for sufficient storage capacity. If you do NOT have enough space on your HD, it will tell you so and even give you an exact figure as to how much additional space will be needed to complete the attempted task. I thought that this was a very nice feature to have. Therefore I'm a bit puzzled. Please e-mail a more detailed error description to CYBERCUBE. We have tested the demo program on a TT and a Falcon before release and it ran just fine. Perfesser, thanks for your order. We will process it as fast as we can, once we get it. *grin* The major difference between 1.00 (INTRO) and 1.02 is the max. rendering resolution. Before, the INTRO version only ran on a Falcon and Version 1.02 ran on the TT. You can _NOW_ use both versions on either machine. Other changes affect only some internal stuff. The INTRO version has been priced and placed to be an affordable entry level package that gives you an good overview and feeling for the scope and power of InShape. The limitation in the maximum rendering resolution is sufficiently high enough to allow first time users and hobbyists to still produce outstanding quality renderings considering the very attractive price of this highly integrated program. Once you have outgrown the capabilities of a certain version, you can always upgrade to the next level. Your data format will stay the same, giving you 100% compatibility with your existing library of objects, surfaces, scenes etc. We feel that this is the best concept. Allowing you to choose the right level to start with. And with the continuing development of the InShape package, you can be assured that there will be plenty of new opportunities and features to explore in the coming versions. The InShape 'Visual' Library: To facilitate the selection of the 'perfect' surface definitions for your scenes, we are currently rendering a series of images to demonstrate the effect and visual appearance of each of the supplied materials. New material definitions will be included as well. These images will portrait each surface definition along with recommendations regarding it's best use and application. We will make the basic scene used to 'visualize' every surface definition public. If you would like to share your own surface files with others, you can then use this scene to render your surface definitions and U/L them here on GEnie. This will help to speed up the materials selection process and give all InShape users better control over the application of certain surface files. New GEM-View version will offer *.IIM format support: A major new GEM-View release is pending. We are currently adding support for InShape's native *.IIM format. This will allow all users to utilize GEM-View's powerful array of image conversion and touch-up functions. InShape BETA tester sign-up almost complete: We have signed-up a number of qualified users for our InShape BETA testing program in the past few weeks. If you would like to become a beta tester as well, please send e-mail to CYBERCUBE with a brief outline of your past rendering/raytracing experience and your current field of interest/work in that area. OK, guys, enough said for today. See you tomorrow. Same time, same ... topic. *grin* Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 88 Tue Nov 16, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:57 EST InShape *.IIM support added to new GEM-View Release: We have added the additional support for InShape's *.IIM format to GEM-View. You can now directly import and export *.IIM files to/from GEM-View, giving you the added conversion, touch-up and viewing capabilities offered by this excellent file viewer. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 89 Wed Nov 17, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:41 EST InShape Orders: If you order InShape, clearly indicate your choices. For easier ordering, use the InShape Order Form provided in the press releases (#30512,30513). In case you want to take advantage of the Trade-In Offer, please check the box at the bottom of the ordering form and include a photocopy of the (original) disk labels + serial #'s. Over the past two weeks we have received quite a number of inquiries regarding InShape. Here are some of the most commonly asked questions: What type of IMAGE MAPPING capabilities does InShape offer? InShape basically offers three different types of image mapping features: a) You can use a B&W image for image mapping. How it works? Well, you simply define TWO materials, one that should be applied to your object whenever there is a white pixel in your B&W image, and another one that should be used when there is an black pixel. Thus you can easily add some dramatic lettering effects to your objects. Example: Try a B&W image with the 'MADE in USA' lettering 'image map' it onto your object! b) Grey-Scale images. So the objects will dull and grey as well? NO! InShape uses the greyscale information in the image as an indicator to mix two user defined materials. It works like this: If there is a completely black pixel in the image map, then InShape will apply 100% of the first surface material to your object. If there is a completely white pixel, InShape will apply 100% of the second surface material to your object. If there is e.g. a 25% grey pixel in your image map, the InShape will apply a mix of the two materials (25% of the first, 75% of the second). This creates some stunning half-opaque, half-translucent effects. c) And then there are True Color images. Take a True Color image of e.g. a carpet, marble, sand, clouds... any surface you like and let InShape apply it directly to your objects. This really adds that perfect touch to any scene. 2. How many light sources can I define in each given scene? Each scene may have up to 128 animated light sources. Light sources can move, change color, appearance and intensity. 3. How well integrated is InShape? InShape consists of an scene editor, object editor, path editor and template editor... all in one. You do not need to switch between different programs at all. Buttons in the toolbox window allow simple and quick changes to any aspect to your scene or animation. 4. How accurate is InShape? Every object in InShape can be defined with a resolution of 1/1000 mm (like having a resolution of 25,400 dpi!) 5. How fast is InShape? That will depend on your particular system and your scene, objects and settings. But here is an example: One frame of the 'ABC.ISC' scene with 320x200, Phong shading, PHOTO quality renders in less than 2 minutes on a standard (no TT-RAM) TT030. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 90 Wed Nov 17, 1993 TOAD-SERV. at 23:59 EST We here at Toad Computers would be very interested in carrying InShape. Ralf, you should contact us... (410) 544-6943 or GEmail me... ;) Dave ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 91 Thu Nov 18, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:58 EST Dave, we sure will. Thanks for your interest. We have been caught a bit by surprise, since we never expected to generate so much excitement and interest so quickly. Last week we also took the opportunity to show InShape during the 'Atari Day' activities of one of our local Atari dealers. InShape once again drew a lot of attention. Furthermore, efforts are underway to integrate InShape's file formats with an increasing number of european Atari applications. Be sure to participate at the InShape RTC on Nov. 29th, right here on GEnie! See banner for more details. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 92 Fri Nov 19, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:40 EST Hi guys, once again this has been a very busy week. We have been very pleased with the interest InShape has generated. We will start U/L the series of rendered surface material images next week. The scene used to generate these pictures will be available for everyone as well. So you can check out your own materials and then compare the results with the existing library. We would also like to initiate a InShape objects library. If you have any pre-defined objects, scenes or other data sets, why not share it with other users or offer them for a small fee? Have a nice weekend. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 93 Fri Nov 19, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 21:46 EST Ralf, How should we contribute our objects? Should we upload them to GEnie for you to collect? Should they be IOB format or 3D2? ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 94 Mon Nov 22, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 20:53 EST Hi Tim, I think it would be best to U/L them here on GEnie if you want to give other users access to your objects. If you want to receive a small fee for it, please prepare a small press release or a simple post in this category to that effect. Since InShape can handle both, IOB or 3D2, it's up to you to decide how you want to distribute them. Enigmatic Asphalt: We are going to U/L the first rendered image from the materials/ surface images series here on GEnie. Look for the ASPHALT.ZIP file. It contains a 320x240 24-bit TIFF image, showing a stunning evening sky and three enigmatic looking objects (a cylinder, a block and a sphere). All objects have the same surface material, with different attributes (as shiny, translucent, 'metallic' and reflective). As I said... enigmatic... or have you ever seen translucent asphalt before? Well, have a look for yourself. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 95 Mon Nov 22, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 20:55 EST InShape RTC... only one week to go! Please keep in mind that the InShape RTC will be held on Monday, November 29th, right here on GEnie. Join us for an evening of information, discussions and graphics fun! And don't miss your chance to win a full InShape 1.02 package! Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 96 Tue Nov 23, 1993 M.POCHE [Mick] at 03:08 EST Ralf - Don't give the door prize away _too_ early in the RTC, as I plan on being there, but a bit late. :) - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 97 Tue Nov 23, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:16 EST Ralf, How come your RTC is scheduled on the night everyone will be playing with their new Jaguars?:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 98 Tue Nov 23, 1993 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 14:28 EST Ralf, maybe you should have a long talk with Nathan about how he ran the Calamus User-to-User tips contest. It sounds a great deal like what you're doing, and I know the User-to-User promotion was a great success. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 99 Tue Nov 23, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:35 EST Mick, OK, we'll hold the draw a little later... but before everybody is fast asleep. *,* \_/ Joey, as you noticed, there is suddenly a lot of activity and renewed interest in the Atari arena. Let's keep it that way. *,* \_/ And we would certainly be delighted to hear any live reports on the first impressions. What a better place than a RTC that deals with... graphics, true color, animation and ... oh yes, InShape! Charlie, great idea. We've been thinking about several ways to promote this, and I too think that the User to User concept is a very good one. Thanks for the tip. Ralf. GEM-View 3.01 InShape Import and Export modules now available: Since the new GEM-View release is fully modular and allows the user to customize his/her list of supported file formats, we've designed two new modules for GEM-View. These modules allow you to load any *.IIM files. There are three different IIM file types: duochrome, greyscale and true color. Once you loaded them into GEM-View, you can process them, resize, crop, re-color, adjust, scale flip and more. The second module allows you to save any file you can load into GEM-View as an *.IIM file to be used in InShape. Once again, you can export duochrome, greyscale and true color images for e.g surface definitions, InShape lettering applications, background images etc. We will upload the complete set (including installation instructions) once GEM-View 3.01 is available here on GEnie. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 100 Tue Nov 23, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 20:16 EST Charlie, >doing, and I know the User-to-User promotion was a great success. USER to USER is alive and well. Volume 3 will be known as the Walter's Compendium :-) Ralf, I am sure we will have lots of company on the 29th. Door prizes seem to draw lots of interested people :-) Mick, what time are you planning to arrive? The prize is usually given in the first hour. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 101 Wed Nov 24, 1993 M.POCHE [Mick] at 00:13 EST Lou - I don't get off of work until 10:00pm CST, and usually get home about 15 minutes later. I don't want y'all to get the impression that the only reason I plan on dropping into the RTC is for a free copy of InShape. I really am interested in what this program can do. It sounds like the serious raytracer that the TT/Falcon have been missing. - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 102 Wed Nov 24, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 06:15 EST Ralf, I'd like to make it but your in my work zone. If it makes you feel better I'll probably be doing some sort of dirty, dingy, labor intensive, loud profanity filled task.:-) I look forward to reading the transcript though! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 103 Wed Nov 24, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 08:54 EST Your work zone, Joey? :-) You work too hard. Take a break! Nathan ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 104 Wed Nov 24, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:21 EST Lou, Mick, let's hope there will be enough good and interesting questions (and answers) to keep everyone awake. *grin* But in any case, if you can manage to make it, please join us for this interesting InShape RTC. I am sure I will learn a lot, so I plan on attending as well. *,* \_/ (big smile) Joey, seems that you are trying to avoid the noise and you want an opportunity to sit back, relax and then read it all... while happily sipping on you coffee. *grin* We'll miss you, but hey, if this one goes well, there will be more InShape RTC Expeditions right here on GEnie. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 105 Thu Nov 25, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:51 EST OK Nathan! I'll take today and tomorrow off.:-) After that I'm booked up until Christmas Day. Ralf, Actually I'll probably read it with bloodshot itchy eyes (much like now) while drinking Cherry Coke. I'm sure it will go well, the programs great already! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 106 Thu Nov 25, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:59 EST Joey, thanks for your moral support. *,* \_/ We are compiling a number of very interesting announcements which will further increase the avaiability and flexibility of InShape. InShape BETA testers: We've got more applications than we've expected. This lead to a few changes in the selection process. To give all eligible applicants an equal and fair chance, we will hold a draw next week. All selected beta testers will be notified via e-mail. Please note: if you want to apply as a InShape BETA tester, please submit a short description of your rendering/raytracing background, system used and main field of interest/application via e-mail to CYBERCUBE. All applications received before Nov. 29th will be included in the draw. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 107 Fri Nov 26, 1993 VORTEXT at 01:22 EST I'll be there in spirit, but not on the wire. I have a rehersal that I must attend instead. ah, theatre. The life of a Thesbian. Daniel ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 108 Fri Nov 26, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:59 EST Daniel, all the best with your rehersal. *,* \_/ GEM-View 3.01 *.IIM modules: The complete archive called IIM_MODLS.ZIP has been uploaded and should be available shortly in the Atari libraries. Please refer to the file description for more details. After this nice but busy Thanksgiving, let's enjoy a relaxing weekend! But don't relax for too long, remember, the InShape RTC will be held on Monday night! Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 109 Fri Nov 26, 1993 D.SMITH200 [Dave] at 20:55 EST Daniel, Break a leg! (BTW, that's Thespian!) :) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 110 Mon Nov 29, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:45 EST Hi there! This is just a little reminder that we will have our first InShape Real-Time-Conference here on GEnie tonight. Please join us for a discussion of this interesting software package. The RTC will start at 10 PM EST... for more details, read the ST Roundtable banner. /// *,* \_/ Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 111 Tue Nov 30, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:39 EST How'd the RTC go? Did I win anything or do you have to be present to win?:- ) Look forward to the text version! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 112 Tue Nov 30, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:55 EST Hi Joey, we are quite pleased with the results of the first InShape RTC. Attendance was good and we covered a lot of ground (and questions) *,* \_/ Lou told me that the transcript should be ready sometime tomorrow, so you too will get your chance to catch up with the latest developments. *grin* Congratulations also to David S. Smith, who won our Doorprize ... a full copy of InShape 1.02! Shortly we will also announce a new 'InShape User to User Initiative' program which can earn you some credits and points... so look out for the next InShape press release. Thanks also to everyone who attended yesterdays conference. It has been a terrific RTC and we hope to continue the dialog here! Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 113 Tue Nov 30, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 19:04 EST We missed you, Joey. Your buddy Dave Smith won the prize - InShape 1.02. All he could say was YAHOOOOOOOOOOO! When he recovered he told me that he was dying to use InShape objects to do some masking with Calamus SL. Thanks to Ralf Doewich for a very well prepared RTC. The forthcoming transcript is full of incredible information about InShape.... a must read for anyone interested in this kind of application. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 114 Tue Nov 30, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 20:33 EST Congratulations on the first InShape RTC, Ralf. And wild applause for Dave. ;- ) Nathan ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 115 Wed Dec 01, 1993 M.POCHE [Mick] at 02:54 EST Don't feel too bad Joey.... I missed the RTC myself. :( I'll definitely be downloading the transcript when it gets posted. I want details on this program, then I want a Falcon, then I want InShape, and to top it all off, I want to win the lottery! :) - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 116 Wed Dec 01, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:23 EST Sounds great! I need to try a RTC sometime. I haven't been to one yet. Congrates Dave! BTW, Who won the Jaguar T-Shirt?:-) Mick, Ed just dropped me some mail and let me know I was a finalist (again) for $10,000,000! He said I was one of the few selected, many others were not.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 117 Wed Dec 01, 1993 C.OINES1 [Chazz] at 08:09 EST Hey, me too! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 118 Wed Dec 01, 1993 D.SMITH200 [Dave] at 18:04 EST Er... Guess I'll be making a *bunch* of uploads in the coming weeks. Can't wait to combine Inshape with the effects of the mask module in SL. Now, when I get Pheonix 2 (and maybe Raystart, when the FPU version is ready) I can kiss *all* my free time goodbye :) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 119 Wed Dec 01, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 19:02 EST Look for the new library tomorrow! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 120 Wed Dec 01, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 19:03 EST If you missed the Real Time Conference, don't miss the transcript... now available in Library 13! >Number: 30924 Name: INSHAPE.ARC > >Description: >This file contains the official transcript of the Nov. 29, 1993 Real >Time Conference with Ralf Doewich of Cybercube Research. In this >conference Ralf provided TONS of information about InShape, quite >likely the most sophisticated and integrated render, raytracing and >animation package for the Falcon/TT computers. Even if you don't have >these computers, this transcript is worth reading for the technical >information! > ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 121 Wed Dec 01, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 19:37 EST Joey, you really gotta get into one of our RTC's! Come in and spend an hour with your favorite online personalities. :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 122 Wed Dec 01, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 23:16 EST Joey, don't feel too bad, read the trasncript.. and if you have any more questions, let's discuss it here! Lou, thanks again for your wonderful work and patience! We all appreciate the time and effort you put in to organize all those nice RTC's. *,* \_/ Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 123 Thu Dec 02, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 21:51 EST New InShape User to User library: As you have probably already noticed (see banner announcement!), a new library has been established to support the InShape User to User concept. Please read the InShape RTC transcript (#30924) as well as the new InShape press release for more details! Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 124 Thu Dec 02, 1993 M.SHANNON [Morgan] at 22:34 EST VORTEXT, Did you say X-bian? Was that a Freudian slip :^)... and Daniel (it is Daniel and not Danielle isn't it?) it's been fun! #,# Break a leg! Morgan _/ Dave, Just _had_ to pull on that leg a little... Morgan *,* \_/, How does InShape cope with physiological and anatomical topography and the concurrent compound surface-curve-complexities involved in multiple co-joined joint movement? I'm a professional involved in Kinesiologlogocal (body-movement-modeling) persuits and I've bben looking for an application\platform combination capable of replication of Video-Tape sequences as well as computer-generated imagery. Please advise... (I can't run the Demo as I have only a 4mb ST). Thanks Morgan ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 125 Fri Dec 03, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:09 EST Morgan, How do you pronounce "Kinesiologlogocal" phonetically? I think body-movement-modeling is easier.:-) Thats an interesting idea for animation! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 126 Fri Dec 03, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 20:55 EST Morgan, wow, nice questions... *,< \_/ But let's get down to business. InShape 1.00 and 1.02 handle object dependencies through hierarchical object links. If you e.g. move the shoulder, the arm, hand and fingers will move accordingly. (Although I never actually tried to move a finger to check if the rest will follow as well... *grin* basically doing the reverse). InShape 2.00 features a completely re-vampend and improved object handling method (amongst various other extensions, additions and improvements)... and I cannot talk too much about it at this stage. But we would certainly love to hear from you what exactly you are looking for. As I stated earlier, we welcome user input. And it is exactly the kind of situation where we need your co-operation to further develop and improve InShape into a product that will find real-world applications! Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 128 Sat Dec 04, 1993 M.SHANNON [Morgan] at 18:26 EST *,< \_/, Good news regarding the hierarchical o-links; please advise as to the last digit incremental and for the record, does the converse hold true, ie., if I move the last digit will I see the incremental transmission up the hierarchical line to the shoulder\cervical spine with (most importantly, to me) the axial-rotational indices of all the corresponding joints remaining intact? For instance, if my H-Object is to lie prone (face down) and I were to grasp the toes and rotate the foot about the ankle would I see the commensurate rotation at the knee as well as the most lateral aspect of the thigh at the level of the hip socket? Or if the H-Object were to lie supine (face up) and I pushed on the little toe would I see the transmission of that movment at the nose as the cranium pivots behind and below it in correspondence? If not, can the obj-2-obj-link be modified to go medial as well as distal (both ways; furthest to nearest and the reverse) by the user? One other question as to surface rendering (placing the individuals Video-Image on the "face" of the computer generated image so as to lend _identity reality_ to the complex-object? Thanks, +,+ Morgan ___) ------ ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 129 Sun Dec 05, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 01:06 EST Morgan, I have not checked the reverse linkage feature yet... but we'll try to do so as soon as possible. Thanks also for descriptions regarding the movement dependencies. *grin* Video Images to be used as image maps... such things are in the 'workx'... sorry, no more details as of yet. """ +.< \_/ Ralf. PS: Watch for the new material being U/Led in library 23. *grin* ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 130 Mon Dec 06, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 21:26 EST Ralf, Hi! This looks like one _excellent_ and much needed program! Did you ever upload the 1.02 demo files as mentioned in the INTRO demo docs, or did I miss them? The demo does not run in _any_ of the Crazy Dots 15 modes on my TT. Have you tested any of the programs with the CD card? I hate going back to TT Med. Is there going to be an easy way to extrude text (I love the "ABC" example), or do 3D letters need to be drawn from scratch? This just may be a "must-have" for my business :-) Thanks, Doug ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 131 Wed Dec 08, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 20:59 EST Doug, Ralf did not upload the DEMO for 1.02 to GEnie. I think it is available on the Equinox BBS. 905-882-5895. You will have to use TT Med for versions 1.0 and 1.02. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 132 Thu Dec 09, 1993 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 01:15 EST Ralf; Any idea on what the current turn-around time is on InShape orders? I sent my order in 4 weeks ago and I'm starting to get a bit impatient, especially with Christmas break coming up--I'll actually have some time to play around with fun things like InShape instead of grading tests from brain-dead students.....(Just kidding) ;-} Th' Perfesser ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 133 Thu Dec 09, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:02 EST Perfesser, Hey watch it! We were dead-brain students once.:-) Ralf, I tried to render something real quick the other day and I still can't figure out how to operate Zoom. I hit the F1 and F2 keys which are suppose to be Zoom Out and Zoom Init. I'm in the right ball park? Also how do you get an object from the Object editor to the scene frame. Sorry, I still haven't read the text file.:-) I've been meaning too I just haven't had time. I'm still trying to read the RTC.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 134 Thu Dec 09, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 09:11 EST Ralf is in Germany. I expect he'll come back with a load of the latest and greatest in DEMO's and programs. A few of the other Cybercube staff promised to come online but they are not yet familiar with GEnie. I'll call them and see if I can help. Nathan ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 135 Fri Dec 10, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 00:59 EST Thanks, Spud Boy. I don't think I want to download another demo that size via long distance. Oh, well, I'll keep playing. It is slightly buggy on my TT, and I am too inexperienced in rendering/3d to know what I'm doing. But it sure is fun! Doug7 ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 136 Fri Dec 10, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:23 EST Joey, To do the "zoom in" (F2), place your curser below the bottom of the screen. Then left-click, hold and move _up_ the screen. A box will appear and shrink towards the center of the screen as you move up. The zoom box will always center on the "batter's box" in the center of the work screen. To zoom out, simply press F1 or click the menu choice. It won't zoom out past the default full-size screen that you have been working in, so that's why it hasn't worked for you yet :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 137 Fri Dec 10, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:13 EST Thanks Doug! Knew it was my fault!:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 138 Fri Dec 10, 1993 M.SCHEFFEL at 19:16 EST This product looks great! The results I get from the demo are amazing. A couple of questions though. Although I think the question has been asked: Is there a way to do morphing (of solids). It is a must these days. The 'other' animation system handles it well and I would hate to loose this when I switch over. Speaking of which, what was that deal about crossing platforms again, and is there a time limit impossed. 'Tis the Christmas season , you know. Finally, does the program work with the Nova graphics cards, the SuperNova in particular? I definetely can't afford to switch is it means a new card. By the way, cool clouds! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 139 Fri Dec 10, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:20 EST Don't feel bad Joey. I took me a long time to figure it out. Have you been able to change the surface of an existing object? I can't make it happen. Always end up with granite (at least I think it's granite :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 140 Sat Dec 11, 1993 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 00:11 EST Nathan Ralf's in Germany? But what about my mathco? :( Is there someone else up there filling orders? (Payment was mailed 'bout 10 days ago) Thanks, Brian ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 141 Sat Dec 11, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 06:25 EST Doug, Welp... I haven't had time to even mess with it. Best I can do is stick something in before hitting the sack and see whats there when I get up.:- ) I noticed the Indy Car but I couldn't figure out how to get it into the Scene part to render it. I only had about 10 minutes though so I didn't try really hard. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 142 Sat Dec 11, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 23:21 EST Joey, The Indy Car exceeds the DEMO limit of 1000 points. Obviously the real version will only be limited by memory in your system. TO get something to show in the Scene editor you have to use the hierachy menu. Once in there you choose the object you want to see. Make sure the HIDE option is not selected. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 143 Sat Dec 11, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:57 EST Joey, besides choosing the "object" button (lower left) you may also have to then "load" an object in. Try that with the ABC demo. Spud Boy, I think there are other limitations also. I can sometimes render an image, and other times it won't render. This is with the same simple image of 40-50 points, only the lights or colors being changed changed. This is one puppy that's going to require lotsa reading :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 144 Sun Dec 12, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:31 EST Thanks guys I figured out the Hierarchy part but I still can't ZOOM.:-) What in the heck are I doing wrong? Doug can you run that past me one more time, please! ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 145 Sun Dec 12, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 11:31 EST As Nathan already announced, Ralf is currently on a business trip in Germany but will be back by December 22, at which time he will be happy to answer all your questions in detail. Unfortunately I am not familiar with the InShape software and therefore cannot help out at this point. To the question about ordered products: a large shipment of ordered software has gone out on Thursday and should reach the respective customers in the next couple of days. Regards, Ulrich. Cybercube Research, Ltd. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 146 Sun Dec 12, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 12:29 EST Joey, To "zoom" you must be in either the "object" or "scene" screens. In the object screen: 1) press F2 or select "zoom in" in the view menu. 2) Move your cursor off the bottom of the workscreen into the white border. Just the top pixel of the cross curser should be visible on the workscreen. 3) Now, press and hold the left button and move the mouse upwards. You should get a yellow box that shrinks porportionatly as it zeroes in on the center of the screen. Keep moving the mouse up until the box surrounds your object as closely as possible. 4) Release the button. Note: if you do not draw the box in close enough, the image will appear the same or even smaller. 5) Press F1 or use the menu choice to zoom out. While in the "scene" screen. 1) press F2 or use the menu choice to zoom closer. 2) press F1 or use the menu choice to zoom out. Doug7 ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 147 Mon Dec 13, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 02:40 EST Doug, Hey! It works!:-) I was missing... move into the white border. I didn't realize there was a border past the black line. I was sticking it in the white border at the top of the screen. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 148 Mon Dec 13, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 19:53 EST Doug, I THINK, that InShape multiplies the number of points times the number of lights for its total points calculation. So if you had 50 points and 20 lights, that's 1,000 points. I saw this effect on one of my low point count obect I was trying to render. I agree, this is one of those programs that can not be fully appreciated without the manual. Joey, Which editor are you trying to Zoom on? It works a little differently for Scene and Object Editors. In the Scene editor you can Zoom the camera by setting its distance. Just hit 'd' or use the drop down menus. You can set the camera distance and your point of view distance separately. Just try typing in different values. It is really quite easy. In the object editor you can zoom with the mouse. Put the mouse at the bottom center of the screen an left drag. A sizing box will appear for you to use. The smaller the box, the bigger your zoom in will be. The mouse actually will be a little above the bottom of the screen. It is also pretty easy to master this technique. Ulrich, Hi. Thanks for the update on Ralf and the InShape orders. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 149 Sat Dec 18, 1993 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 22:47 EST Hey CyberCube; Just wondering if anyone there can tell me whether my order for InShape has been processed yet. It's been more than five weeks since I sent my check. I know that a shipment was supposed to have gone out last Thursday, but it's been more than a week and still no InShape. Unless the shipment went out on the slow boat to China, my order apparently wasn't in the Thursday lot. I sure would like to get it before Christmas break is over (Jan. 5). Any chance of that happening? Th' Perfesser ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 150 Wed Dec 22, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 20:23 EST Doug, thanks for helping out and explaining the zoom function in more detail *,* \_/ Joey, hi! I'm back as you already noticed. *grin* Yep, InShape is growing and new features are being added constantly... which makes a manual a must. The manual is completely in english, covers every editor, menu funtion & section and presents several tutorials to help the user to get familiar with it's power. Perfesser, I'll check the status of your order. I've been away for the last two weeks and do not know right now who's order has been shipped so far. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 151 Thu Dec 23, 1993 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 04:53 EST Ralf, While your in the process of checking the status of orders, can you look around for the M.O. I sent you for the mathco? Thanks, Brian ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 152 Thu Dec 23, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 06:08 EST Ralf, Welcome back!:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 153 Fri Dec 24, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 11:12 EST Brian, your math coprocessor order was processed a couple of days ago. There have been some great delays due to the increased volume of the Holidays mail. We' ve*5,of the Holidays mail. Your FPU will be shipped along with a new batch of InShape demo disks that we've just received. *,< \_/ And to all that have participated in this topic so far, have a Merry Christmas and a Joyous Holiday Season! Response to the introduction of InShape has been terrific and we apologize for any delays. We'll try to do a lot better next year and there are some big news and additions coming soon! Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 154 Fri Dec 24, 1993 E.WELLS at 19:02 EST Delays are understandable and really not a hardship. However, could you confirm that my order has shipped or not? It's been about 6 weeks... Everett ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 155 Tue Dec 28, 1993 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 05:46 EST Ralf, Thanks for the update on the mathco. --Brian ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 156 Tue Dec 28, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:52 EST Everett, we've shipped orders shortly before Christmas. I'll check if your order has been processed yet. Thanks for asking. Brian, you should be getting your FPU shortly. Complete with installation instructions and tips. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 157 Tue Dec 28, 1993 M.SCHEFFEL at 20:53 EST Ralf Have used the demo for a while and am very impressed. I am still curious, though, about the upgrade deal that was mentioned earlier. Also, does the package work with the Nova series of cards. I would hate to have spend more money on a new card. while I am at it, what about morphing? A definite must... well, I am going to purchase anyway, but... ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 158 Wed Dec 29, 1993 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 02:21 EST Thanks Ralf... Cutting it kinda close aren't we? :) Care to extend the promo deadline for those of us (or rather me) who haven't been able to run the demo yet? --Brian ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 159 Fri Dec 31, 1993 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:42 EST M.SCHEFFEL, of course, InShape will support a wide variety of graphics cards. The new version, 2.00 is being designed with the best flexibility and compatibility in mind. And we do not have the habit of charging you more just because you decided to purchase a competitive product. So, no matter if you own a Crazy Dots, a CyReL board or any other graphics card, there will be NO difference in the price. InShape 2.00 if a fully GEM and Multi-TOS compliant package. Every system that supports the GEM standard will be able to run the software. Re: Morphing: Yep, that's way up there on the wishlist for '94. Check out our press release regarding 2.00! Brian, we've had better than expected response to the introduction of InShape and a lot of user's asked if we could extend the deadline by a few more days. I'll see what I can do and I'll announce a new official statement next week. Till then, feel free to take advantage of the introductory offer. To all of you who have participated in this topic, all InShape users and those who might consider joining us next year, have a Happy New Year and all the best for '94! Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 160 Sun Jan 02, 1994 E.WELLS at 02:54 EST Ralf, (cybercube) Just pestering you once more? It's been 5 1/2 weeks since I sent in my order for Inshape? If it has already shipped, great, it should be here soon, if not, could you verify that you received my order? I understand you've been out of the country and the holidays are always busy, thanks (screwed that sentence up) Thanks again, Everett Wells ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 161 Mon Jan 03, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:13 EST Everett, I am glad to be able to deliver more good news: The previous product shortage has been solved and we've started shipping InShape backorders as of today. Yes, there have been quite some delays due to the Holiday Season. But nonetheless, we will continue to strive to provide the best product support possible. I apologize for any inconveniences caused by this longer than usual delivery period. BETA testers: We've expanded the InShape BETA testing program. All participants will be notified shortly. Already registered BETA testers will get their new update within the next few days. AccuFrame Update: The CyReL AccuFrame utility has been expanded provide a more flexible support for a variety of VCRs and video decks. If you would like to see your type/brand of VCR or video deck supported, please forward a short description of the name/model#'s of the equipment you use to: CYBERCUBE. We will then consider adding support for YOUR type video decks/VCRs to the AccuFrame utility. InShape Manual Update: There is a new appendix in the InShape manual depicting the effect of the various material definition parameters on surface textures. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 162 Mon Jan 03, 1994 E.WELLS at 21:57 EST Ralf, Great to hear, I'll start getting anxious in about a week waiting for Inshape. About video decks and accuframe, does it require a Cyrel card or will others work? Currently I'm using two Panasonic AG1970's to edit video/print tga's to tape with the aid of the Matrox Personal producer. Will Accuframe utilize the 1970's? Matrox accesses them through a device called the Selectra Viewport. Everett *s ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 163 Tue Jan 04, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:51 EST Everett, we already have a couple of Panasonic decks on our list. The one you listed was not yet on it. *grin* No, you do not need a CyReL board for the control of the VCR's etc, however, we recommend the use of such (+VidiMix16) for the best results. Please understand that this will be a piece of software mainly designed to utilize the power of our own products. Nonetheless, the Accuframe utility will also work on e.g. the Falcon. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 164 Wed Jan 05, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 02:32 EST Ralf, would it be possible to use a driver text file for different VCR's? That way maybe a person could edit it to there own VCR. BTW, I use Sony 8mmm stuff. I even have a Serial port cable from the old Cyber Stuff that plugs into them, it's pretty simple. BTW, it's a GV-8 Video Walkman, CCD-V9 Camcorder. You can plug the Jaguar into the Walkman and have a portable system better then the Lynx.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 165 Wed Jan 05, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 02:47 EST This doesn't seem to be the right topic......What is Accuframe. I'd like to know more about it. John B. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 166 Wed Jan 05, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 20:17 EST Realm, thanks for the info on your VCR. AccuFrame will be pretty modular AND allows the user to configure it in numerous ways. The Jaguar seems to be a real nice piece of equipment... if it could be used for animation/gfx... that would certainly be stunning & fast. John B., The AccuFrame is a utility which allows you to record any kind of computer images onto video tape (whether it is VHS/S-VHS/Video8/Beta) and do it in such a way that you get the best possible control down to the precision supported by the equipment you use. If you e.g. use a single frame recorder, you can easily produce high quality and very professional looking computer graphics animations. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 167 Thu Jan 06, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 03:45 EST Ralf, Mathco received! Sure am glad I purchased it from you despite the wait (for a variety of reasons--but most notably for the explicit instructions) I must confess, I'd never think of looking for the socket there. Certainly not until I had more apart than necessary. First impressions of the demo? Way Cool! --Brian ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 168 Thu Jan 06, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 04:52 EST Ralf, Video games are animation/gfx.:-) With all the ports on it, I would think it's possible to convert it into a full functioning graphics station. Hopefully they'll sell enough to make that kind of thing financial possible. Hate to think it would be wasted on games only.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 169 Thu Jan 06, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:24 EST Ralf, will Accuframe load a list of files and automaticaly load them into memory, one image at a time, then advance a single frame VCR and automaticaly record each image! If that is what you are saying, I'm drooling, that is terrific. and how much is it/will it be? What file formats does it support. John B. P.S. This seems to be such a great utility, does'nt deserve it's own topic? :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 170 Thu Jan 06, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:37 EST Brian, yep, glad you had no trouble installing it! It's not that difficult after all, but nice and clear instructions help a lot. *,< \_/ Joey, let's hear the latest news from the CES tonight... and let us then dream on. *grin* John B., you got the idea! That's mainly what the AccuFrame utility is intended for... besides offering some more advanced features to minimize tape wear, sync problems and the like. We do not have a specific topic for it yet, since it's not ready. Once we are going to release it, you will probably see a new topic for it. Thanks for your interest. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 171 Sat Jan 08, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 03:45 EST Ralf, InShape doesn't seem particularly happy running under MutliTos (getting the desktop bleeding through dialog boxes and stuff). Is this correct? I heard intitially when InShape was first introduced that it was of the command line interpreter type, and found this hard to be true. But I guess it is! Although certainly more elegant (very elegant) than the phrase suggests. Will 2.0 or future versions be more interactive in its approach. Personally, I haven't been too fond of entering numbers in box when performing an operation on an object. I'll certainly try to overcome my shortcoming, since there's so much stuff here to like. What are the differences between 1.0 and 1.02? Best I can determine is that 1.02 supports rendering in higher resolutions but only runs in 16 colors. BTW, if you hadn't looked into it, InShape on the Falcon with a SC1224 is perfectly compatible as long as overscan is enabled. Thanks, Brian ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 172 Sun Jan 09, 1994 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 17:55 EST To those smarter than me, >Message 61 Mon Nov 08, 1993 >J.STANFORD2 [John] at 01:12 EST >In the real world a raytracer and an interpolating (scanline, >rasterizing, etc) renderer are not >competitive, as both use different means to achieve different ends. Without great technical detail, would someone explain the difference to me between raytracing and rendering? BTW, I finally got the demo to do something for me just today. Finally found the right readme file. So I downloaded all the messages and found the above message which prompted the question. One last thing, if anyone has some superflouous $ laying around........ Thanks, Ken S. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 173 Mon Jan 10, 1994 CBARRON at 01:25 EST At the risk of falling on my face: Well, ray tracing traces rays of light with all reflections, refractions, etc. until all rays of light. [To the resolution of the final image] are done. an interpolating renderer takes a 3d scene and projects it to a 2d image. Reflections, refractions, etc. are not considered. Only the relative position of the 3d objects, with respect to the 'eye' of the projection. This rendering sort of like those projective drawings done in an 'elementary art class'. RayTracing is sort of like taking a spot flashlight capable of one photon of light, pointiny at your 3D objects and watching were the photon ends up after bouncing around your 3d objects. record were it ends up and move your light slightly, do it again until you have a complete image. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 174 Tue Jan 11, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:39 EST Brian, InShape 2.00 has gone through many transitions and it offers a vastly improved object editor and general object handling. I won't spill to much now... have a look at the upcoming press release. - _ O,o \_/ The main difference between 1.00 and 1.02 is that 1.00 or the so called INTRO version has been specifically adopted for the Falcon 030, whereas the 1.02 version has been optimized for the TT030. InShape uses either the Falcon HiColor or TT Low (256 color) mode when displaying the control image which allows the user to monitor the progress. The image will be (dithered) and scaled to give the best approximation possible. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 175 Wed Jan 12, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 05:40 EST Ralf, Thanks for the response. To call it INTRO seems to be a little deceiving. Sounds like that version'll do just fine until the release of 2.0 --Brian ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 176 Wed Jan 12, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:48 EST Brian, you are right... you can do some amazing things even with InShape 1.00 (INTRO). The reason why it has been called 'Intro' is because it has been priced very aggressively. This will enable even the occasional user to use InShape for his/her raytracing needs. NEW InShape Animation Player in BETA testing: We are BETA testing a new animation player for InShape. A demo version of it will be U/L here on GEnie after it's official release. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 177 Wed Jan 12, 1994 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 21:35 EST Ralf; I hate to be a nuisance, but I was just wondering whether you could give me an idea of when my InShape order might be shipped. It's been nearly 10 weeks since I sent it in. I know that CyberCube has had difficulty keeping up with demand, but quite frankly, I admit to being somewhat surprised that there are that many Falcon owners out there, let alone Falcon owners that want a "niche" program like InShape. In any case, I would rest much easier if I had some idea of how many more weeks I can expect to wait before I might see your fine program in my mailbox/on my doorstep? (I don't necessarily mind waiting, it's not knowing how LONG I have to wait that is troublesome....) :-) Th'Perfesser ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 178 Thu Jan 13, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:02 EST Perfesser, your order has been shipped and you should get your copy any day now. I am sorry to hear that you have not been informed about the shipment. I'll check that. Normally, we acknowledge the receipt of an order and also state the possible shipment delay. Timely completion of some orders was delayed due to the increased volume of mail and packages over the holiday season. This problem has been resolved and I am happy to report that we now have a turn around time (receipt of order to shipment) of two days max. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 179 Fri Jan 14, 1994 L.SQUIRE [Lance] at 20:06 EST Ralf: Although it's been WELL OVER 2 DAYS! ;-) _I_ have just recieved my Inshape progam, and am very pleased with the initial results! More as I progress!!! Lance ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 180 Fri Jan 14, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 20:17 EST Lance, nice to hear you like it. *grin* Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 181 Sun Jan 16, 1994 L.SQUIRE [Lance] at 19:54 EST Ralph: I'm having some problems with animation in inshape. Unfortunatly the given manual IS sadly lacking ANY kind of tutorial or general theory of operation on the subject! The problem I'm having is, key frame 3 actions start before key frame 2 is reached! Eg: Key 1 T shape arangement of shapes Key 2 Mid section of T rotated 90 Key 3 T shape back to original Result T rotates aprox 45 stops and returns to origin! Eg:2 Key 1 Ball on right of screen Key 2 Ball on left of screen + rotation Key 3 Ball Jumps up Key 4 Ball lands (Only Up/Down on 3&4) Result Ball arcs up to left then lands on target! 1) AM I Doing something wrong? (Maybe) 2) Are you having ON-LINE tutorials or some such? (Please) Thanks Lance ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 182 Mon Jan 17, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 21:06 EST Lance, I do not (yet) have a fully featured tutorial on that subjet. But here are a few things you should be aware of: 1. check the camera path type you selected. There are several types. Type 1 is straight, all others add various degrees of spline type camera movements.. and thus if you have some 'wild' angles between keyframes, may add an extra loop here and there to make the transitions as smooth as possible. Experiment with the TYPE setting in the camera dialog. 2. check if you have any of the extra 'goodies' like oscillation, stretching, wobbling etc. selected for a specific keyframe. Right mouse button click inside the view window in the scene editor reveals the hierarchy window, from which you can select individual objects and those goodies and how they are associated with the different keyframes you have. I know this sounds a bit convoluted... but I don't want to go on and on for a hundred lines... and on the other hand, there are so many effects that can be created with those parameters, that you best to some experimental work with them during an 'interactive' session. *,* \_/ You will see a complete animation tutorial once the new CyReL Grand FLIx Animation Player is out. It'll play FLI/FLC,InShape, Vivid (and maybe MPEG) animations right on your desktop, or use the whole screen, just as you like it. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 183 Wed Jan 19, 1994 L.SQUIRE [Lance] at 21:35 EST Sorry Ralph, Haden't even touched any of those! Lance ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 184 Thu Jan 20, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:49 EST Lance, no problem. You are welcome. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 185 Fri Jan 21, 1994 D.SMITH200 [Dave] at 21:13 EST Ralf, received Inshape last week and am happlily playing... The environment controls are a study in themselves. I'll be uploading some samples of work as time permits :) ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 186 Sat Jan 22, 1994 B.DEWITT [Perfesser] at 14:49 EST Ralf; Hooray! I finally received my InShape package yesterday. I can stop bugging you about it now and start seeing what I can do with it.... :-) Th'Perfesser ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 187 Mon Jan 24, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 19:07 EST Dave, Perfesser, enjoy! It really took a lot longer than planned to get those copies out and I once again apologize for the delay. We have several changes and we sincerely hope to be able to avoid such incidents in the future. We'll try harder. That's a promise. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 188 Mon Jan 24, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 22:54 EST Ralf, Has the special introductory offer been extended after all? I've been able to further comfirm my interest now having spent some ample time with the demo. I have so many questions. But the way I look at it, they could all (probably) be answered with a user's manual :) Thanks, BK ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 189 Tue Jan 25, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:59 EST Brian, yes, the Introductory Offer has been extended till 15/2/94. We'll have a couple of new announcements regarding InShape very soon. Ralf. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 190 Tue Jan 25, 1994 B.KOLINS1 [Brian] at 23:22 EST That's good news Ralf... I'll certainly be able to get an order in by then, if not much sooner (a few obstacles hit since my previous post--I had no idea calling Canada was that expensive!) --Brian ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 191 Wed Jan 26, 1994 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 01:46 EST The InShape users manual will answer many questions. I think between it and this support base you will be well taken care of. ------------ Category 7, Topic 41 Message 192 Wed Jan 26, 1994 CYBERCUBE [Ralf] at 18:40 EST Brian, fine, we are ready when you are. *grin* Good thing that we are not located between China and Tibet. *grin* Tim, the InShape manual is certainly a very informative and well designed manual which provides a number of very helpful tips and tricks. If you need any assistance or more background information, please let me know. Ralf. ------------