========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 7 Sun Aug 07, 1988 STEPHANIE.A (Forwarded) Sub: DynaCadd DynaCADD is THE Computer Aided Design and Drafting solution on the ST/TT platform. Ditek International proudly supports its professional CADD application here. 199 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 1 Sun Feb 07, 1993 D.GORE6 at 17:13 EST Can anybody tell me if DynaCadd 2D ($269.00 retail) will run on the ST with one Meg of memory ? ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 2 Mon Feb 08, 1993 DITEK [David] at 13:10 EST D.GORE -- The last time I checked we started up no problem but there was very little elbow room once you started working. Loading mulitple fonts was also a serious problem. I would _highly_ recommend having at least 2 Mb in your machine for comfort. Anyone out there with a 1Mb Mega care to run a test? ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 3 Fri Feb 12, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 23:14 EST D.Gore -- Sorry, can't help. I am presently using a TT. If I get a chance at work (Computer Studio in Asheville, NC), I will try to test. My guess is that there won't be enough room in memory except for small drawing files after the program is loaded. Cliff (Ahsevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 4 Sat Feb 13, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 10:40 EST Just a small question: Where can I find out info for the CVG to DXF TTP that comes with DynaCADD 2D. I have looked through the manual (in fact, I am re-reading it), but haven't really found any info. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 5 Sat Feb 13, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 13:32 EST Cliff, you just select a CVG file and it'll make a DXF file of it. Then you can import that into DynaCADD. I thought there was a readme file or something covering it. You can get a CVG from Outline or Calamus. If you have SL and Dataformer you can export a DXF directly. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 6 Sat Feb 13, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 14:45 EST Cliff, you can convert CVG frames to DXF using Dataformer in Calamus SL. Perhaps this was where you read about it? ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 7 Sat Feb 13, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 18:22 EST Hi again Joey, My mistake, the TTP program is labeled CVG2DEF.ttp. I looked for a readme file but haven't located it yet. You know the saying, "if it was a snake,...". Some day I will order the Dataformer module, you money. I guess the part that is confussing me is that it is a TTP, and I'm not sure if I'll end up doing the DOS path thing (I always forget where I put a file, thank god for Item selectors). Hi Lou, Geeesh, do you spend all your time here on GEnie? :-) But you are right, going straight from CVG to DFX is (I think) preferable. I have access to one of the huge Houston plotters and have some strange idea to try out. Keep 24/25 July free and come down. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 8 Sat Feb 13, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 18:44 EST BRACE this summer? I would love to. I wonder if I could drag Nathan and Mario... actually, I have a feeling there will be too much to do around here once Nathan gets back from Germany. BTW, it only seems like I am online all the time... I keep Aladdin loaded and running on my STE while I Calamus on the other computers. When I need a little break, I just run the Autopass and enjoy the messages. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 9 Sat Feb 13, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 22:14 EST Located a CVG file, copied it to a floppy, launched CVG2DEF.TTP. Typed in the path and file name. The screen indicated that the file had been sucessfully converted. Launched DynaCADD, inported the DEF file, and WHALA (sp?). Although it did not provide the shading of the original CVG file (this is a CADD program), I really didn't care. The TTP works. Now my brain races with ideas, now to dedicate more time. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 10 Sat Feb 13, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 22:22 EST Lou, The dates are tentative right now until we get a firm go/nogo from Atari. When firmed up, look in CAT 11. I still have my MEGA4 (primarily to load up flight simulators when I need to blow something up to relieve tension). I truely didn't know how much I was missing before I got my TT. True multitaking--two computers...powered up and running. I do autopasses so much I really don't think I could log on and manually navigate anymore. Sorry for the topic drift. Now to go and play with Calamus SL, DynaCADD, etc...etc... More later. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 11 Sun Feb 14, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 00:39 EST Cliff, I knew what you meant but it's been so long I forgot it was DEF not DXF.:-) I've gotten the best results from SL by scanning something and autotracing it with Speedline. Then export that in DXF format. That gets you a nice CADD like drawing with no overlaping frames. It also works with the entire SL page if you need it.... fonts and all! Dave, One of our machinest was talking about buying AutoCAD and I was telling him about DynaCADD. He's interested, could you possibly send me some information on DynaCADD for DOS and Windows? ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 12 Sun Feb 14, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 10:21 EST Joey, While playing around with DynaCADD last night, I came up with some ideas that may or may not be fesible (sp?)...Topo map hatch patterns and navigation symbols. Experimentation might have to wait until spring semester classes are over with. So many different ways to do things. This ought to keep me me busy and out of trouble. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 13 Sun Feb 14, 1993 D.GORE6 at 14:45 EST Can anybody tell me if DynaCadd 2D support the HP Deskjet 500 printer ? ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 15 Mon Feb 15, 1993 DITEK [David] at 04:36 EST Joey -- There are only preliminary specs available for the Windows version. I'll send a copy of it to you today using the address on the DynaCADD registration. D.Gore -- There is no driver specific for the Deskjet 500 but one of the LaserJet drivers may work. Has anyone else tried it out? ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 16 Tue Feb 16, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 01:12 EST Thanks Dave! Cliff, What did you say?:-) The patterns aren't to bad to do it's just hard to keep all four sides lining up for the hatch. About the only way to do it is set the grid in the font program so everything works out correctly. It's a very interesting challange because most the time it doesn't hatch what it should.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 17 Tue Feb 16, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 20:21 EST DITEK [David], Just a quick note to say you should be getting my registration card shortly. I am enjoying working the program (have only had it a couple of days) and have several ideas, if only there were enough hours in the day. Has any decision been made yet as to the cost of upping to 3D? Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 18 Tue Feb 16, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 20:31 EST I'll have to go back and look at my last message and see what I did say. Sorry, at my age, two part time jobs, and college my brain is somewhere. Generating hatches seemed like something to occupy the nights. :-) Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 19 Tue Feb 16, 1993 DITEK [David] at 23:25 EST Cliff -- No word yet on the upgrade from 2D to 3D. I'll post here as soon as I know. I think Joey is the man to ask for info on generating hatches. All but a few of the hatches included with the package were designed by him. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 20 Wed Feb 17, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 00:45 EST Dave, Don't give me too much credit in the design department, a lot of them are standard hatchs I got from some drafting books and such. The rest is either made up or copied off actual things. I think you can only blame me for actually drawing them in the editor.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 21 Wed Feb 17, 1993 DITEK [David] at 16:32 EST Designing hatches in the editor would definitely qualify for hazard pay.. :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 22 Wed Feb 17, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 23:54 EST Dave,:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 23 Fri Feb 19, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 22:39 EST Joey, When I get around to doing some serious stuff, I'll would like to bend your ear. I am still just playing around. Just dug out my old book "Technical Drawing" by Giesecke-Mitchell-Spencer-Hill and Dygdon, 8th edition. At first, I thought it might be a good book to work through. It is a good book, but it would take me y e a r s to complete. Let's see, if I start now :-) Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 24 Sat Feb 20, 1993 S.WINICK at 08:22 EST David, I believe we've come across a bug in the ST-version of DynaCADD-2D. We cannot get the program to cross hatch anything. The hatch function appears to be completely disabled. When selecting a hatch area, everything begins as normal, but the hatch pattern never appears, or the system locks up completely. We've tried this on two different MegaSTe systems with the Cache both on or off. The TT030 version of the program seems to work perfectly. Strange...... How 'bout checking this out and let me know. If you will be offering a patch to correct this error, let me know so I can advise customers who have already purchased the software. Thanks. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 25 Sat Feb 20, 1993 DITEK [David] at 14:22 EST Sheldon -- Thanks for the info. I've just recently found out about the bug. I will let you know as soon as we have it corrected. You're right.. it is _very_ strange since the exact same code is used for both the TT and ST version. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 26 Sun Feb 21, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 00:39 EST Cliff, No problem... bend away!:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 27 Tue Mar 02, 1993 G.MATTHIJETZ [greg] at 23:51 EST Hi everyone! I'm new to this area. (although, I've read past messages.) I recently purchased a used copy of Dynacadd and am having a maddening problem. I discovered that I can't select entities by "IN a window" reliably. And I can't seem to select text at all this way. The program version is 2.04.06. I've tried everything I can think of to remedy the problem. First, I disabled all of my auto programs and all of my ACC's -- no help. Next, I tried re- installing the program -- again no help. I have checked the entity filter and that seems o.k. I have t tried different drawings and even a DXF file from another program. (DXF from Athena II) I tried to load a DXF from Autocad and the program crashed for some reason -- it was a 2D drawing and I was loading DXF in - 2D. Not only am I not able to select text by window but entities that aren't in the window are selected and some included in the window are not. For ex. say I've windowed 12 lines, 8 pieces of text and 3 circles; The program might select 7 lines, no text and all three circles. I am at a loss and feeling very disappointed at this point. Please, if anybody can help I would appreciate it. (I am running a 1040ST with 4 Megs of memory and (cringe) TOS 1.0. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 28 Wed Mar 03, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 23:51 EST Greg, I've never had that problem but I haven't had TOS 1.0 since 86.:-) When we bought DynaCADD originally we had to get TOS 1.4 so the Moniterm would operate properly. I've never used it with anything less. Select IN window normally selects everything COMPLETELY inside the window. If you have a line running inside one side of the window and out the other it won't be selected. You can also select objects by picking on them... deselect them by holding down the shift key and picking on them... hitting the delete key to undo the last step. We've had a couple DXF files crash also but they were from version 12 of AutoCAD. I believe DynaCADD currently handles DXF files from version 10 and under. I think DXF files are just text so you may be able to remove the part causing the problem if you can locate it. Hope that helps some! ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 29 Sat Mar 13, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 12:05 EST Has anyone been able to do a printout using a HPDeskjet 500C? Is there anyway to create a driver for it? Dennis ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 30 Sat Mar 13, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 17:07 EST I had an amazing success with DynaCADD this week! We just got our computer aided Plasma table up and running last week. Somebody parked our truck under the exhaust vent, it snowed on it and a few hours later it was brownish black from the dust and smoke... opps:-) OK not good for the enviroment so we picked up a used Cyclone. Basically it's a 44" cyclinder that swirls around and attaches to a cone, which feeds into another smaller cone. It's about 12 feet tall altogether. The dust travels around the inside and falls out the bottom into a container and then you dispose of it properly while the clean air goes out the top. Anyway the thing was 27" higher then our exhast vent and had a 10"x26" opening where as our vent had a 24"x24" opening. So our engineer layed out the usual duct work which had tapers on both ends that feed into elbows that fed into a straight piece and put the thing about 10 feet out in the middle of the parking lot so I said give me a shot I'll lay it out in 3D and get some patterns together. So... I set up my 24" square and my 26"x10" square the right distance and height to put the thing 1 foot from the building. The 24" square was vertical and the 26"x10" piece was horizontal. Now I have a 90 degree square elbow that changes dimensions and rises 20" from one opening to the next... cool!:-) Anyway when I was done with that I unrolled the four sides so we'd have flat patterns. Took the DXF file to the Plasma software and cut the patterns out of 1/8" steel using the Plasma. Then we rolled the different radius in the four pieces using the dimensions given by DynaCADD and welded them together. Yesterday we installed it and everything came out perfect! It's the most amazing thing I've ever seen.:-) Normally with something this bizzare looking you'd be fighting with it constantly if it fit at all. It took me about 4 hours to lay it out and maybe 45 minutes to cut it. It would have cost to much to do by hand. Maybe if somebody else was paying for it but being an overhead piece it was the quickest route wins. The only draw back is DynaCADD got credit even though I did all the layout work.:-) I'm sure it would have gotten blamed if it didn't fit also...:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 31 Sat Mar 13, 1993 FRED.U at 19:31 EST How big is this drawing you did? Would it be an infringement to anyone if you uploaded it to show off your handiwork? Sounds like a winner, at any rate. fred ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 32 Sun Mar 14, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:31 EST AWright Joey! If you got your coworkers to shake their heads in amazement, then you KNOW youv'e won a round... :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 33 Sun Mar 14, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 13:25 EST I can upload it, it's nothing important. I actually cut it out of paper to start with to see if looked right. It's always better to waste a piece of paper then 4 sheets of steel.:-) I'll bring it home this week, it might be a good 3D thing to expirement on. It's nothing very large because it's rather simple, it just curves every which way.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 34 Mon Mar 15, 1993 DITEK [David] at 17:15 EST Joey -- Way to go! :-) I'll look for your masterpiece in the libraries. Dennis -- Sorry, no support for the HP 500C yet. The printer drivers were written years ago and include no support for color in any of the base routines. Other than postscript, DynaCADD does not support color printouts. I'll call HP when I get a chance to get hold of an HP 500C and make sure that it can print out mono prints. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 35 Mon Mar 15, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 21:34 EST David, The color printout is not that important, but please see if you can locate a driver that will let me print mono. The 500 model and 500C will probably use the same driver.?? Dennis ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 36 Tue Mar 16, 1993 DITEK [David] at 17:27 EST Dennis -- I'll have a look and let you know when something comes up. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 37 Tue Mar 16, 1993 J.DERNAR at 20:55 EST How we doing with the windows release, is it going to be out this month at the Europe show? Any new features to speak of? How about a drafting assistant as is in Vellum, or does DC have a better way of "concept sketching"? ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 38 Tue Mar 16, 1993 K.HEINRICHS [K.Heinrichs] at 22:46 EST I have just bought DynaCADD 2D and am having fun with it. I was under the impression that there was a HP LaserJet 4 driver but did not find it on the disk in the package. Is there a driver for the HP LJ 4 and if so how do I go about getting one? If it makes any difference my system config. is: TT030 w/3.06 and 4meg of ST and 4meg of TT ram. K.Heinrichs ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 39 Wed Mar 17, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 18:49 EST David, Thanks for your fast response. Dennis ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 40 Fri Mar 19, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 18:06 EST David, Almost forgot. Im am a Atari Mega user. Thanks, Dennis ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 41 Sat Mar 20, 1993 DITEK [David] at 01:46 EST J.Dernar -- The Windows version will be shown at the CEbit show with preliminary documentation. A spec sheet is available. For those interested please leave me your address in email and I will send out the copies. I am not familiar with the drafting assistant in Vellum. The only thing I know about the package is the inference engine which we are supporting in version 3.00. Do you have more details on 'concept sketching'. ------ K.Heinrichs -- There is no specific driver for the LaserJet 4 although I think this will be an easier one to create since it just happens to be one of the printers we use in house. :-) ------ David ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 42 Sat Mar 20, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 12:12 EST I just got a copy of the spec sheet and Dave isn't exagerating when he says version 3 will do it!:-) Just makes you warm all over.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 43 Sun Mar 21, 1993 FRED.U at 19:29 EST Can the big mass of CVG fonts on the banner be used with dcadd? I just got in from a long road trip and can't think worth a damn, but don't want to miss this. There is a big list of fonts in the library listing. What fonts can be used with dcadd? Are any of this format in the library? fred ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 44 Sun Mar 21, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 21:08 EST Fred ... Those weren't fonts exactly. ;-) They are fonts that have been converted to CVG's (Calamus Vector Graphic) format so that those of us that use Calamus or Outline Art can preview exactly what they will look like if you choose to purchase them. DynaCADD uses a different font format than Calamus. I don't recall offhand if there are any PD DynaCADD fonts. I'll go look right now. Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 46 Sun Mar 21, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 21:19 EST I did a search of the DynaCADD library 41 and came up with 3 possibilities for you Fred. Note: There are quite a few fonts available from Ditek directly that they have specifically licensed for use in DynaCADD but those fonts would not be available for downloading in the library. ;-) The three possibilities following are from 3rd parties. ********************************* Number: 25516 Name: STICKLEY.LZH Address: R.NELSON123 Date: 920831 Approximate # of bytes: 7296 Number of Accesses: 23 Library: 41 Description: Simple Craftman Font foe use with Dynacadd. -- ********************************* Number: 20428 Name: MOSCVD.LZH Address: SGUBER Date: 910806 Approximate # of bytes: 32000 Number of Accesses: 18 Library: 41 Description: This is a quick translation of Moscva by Steve Liversidge as a font for use with DynaCadd. There are two forms of the font, as I am not sure which would be the best with a Gerber Sign maker. --- ********************************* Number: 19160 Name: DY_FONT1.LZH Address: SGUBER Date: 910428 Approximate # of bytes: 89728 Number of Accesses: 27 Library: 41 Description: This LZHed file contrains 14 partial fonts for DynaCadd. Each font only comes with enough letters to be seen in the DynaCadd Drawing. Ordering information for Font Pack 1 is given in the file. Try out some of the fonts. You might be surprised. --------------------- I hope this helps. Regards Nathan ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 47 Mon Mar 22, 1993 S.WINICK at 05:48 EST Fred, Check with Sol Guber (GEnie: SGUBER). He has virtually his entire font library available in DynaCADD format. I have several of those fonts and they are V-E-R-Y nice. Only problem is that many can't be sized properly from the font size selections; you have to scale them on the drawing page itself to get an exact size. But if you need a wide variety of fonts for use in DynaCADD, check out the Fonts by Guber. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 48 Mon Mar 22, 1993 FRED.U at 07:23 EST That's a heck of a response, guys. Now that I have regained consciousness, I am able to think a bit more coherently. I should have considered the library search on my own. SGRUBER is a big font man, I recall seeing some Easy Draw fonts of his up for grabs some time ago. Always a teaser set, never a full one. With all the work that goes into building one, no surprise there. thanks again. fred ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 49 Mon Mar 22, 1993 SGUBER at 20:12 EST Fred: i have about 500 fonts that can be converted to DynaCadd fr ormat. Nathan will not let me sell a converter, but at $4/font, u can get lots of fonts really cheap. Leave me an address, and I will send' you my catalobg. Sol ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 50 Mon Mar 22, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 20:35 EST Nathan, Actually you could use the CVG to DEF program to import CVG's into DynaCADD for viewing.:-) It would just be an outline but still possible except where Grog is concerned. He's a mess with no fills.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 51 Tue Mar 23, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 07:57 EST True enough Joey. Thanks for pointing this out. This means that any of the 1800 or so Calamus fonts could be previewed in DynaCADD as well. Sol ... Smack! ;-) Nathan@DMC ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 52 Sat Mar 27, 1993 W.SHIPLEY1 [Arthur] at 15:27 EST I jst stopped by to say farewell to all of those on this topic who have supported DynaCadd so well. Due to the new billing policies and/or charges by GENIE, I am dropping my account. It alreadt costs enough without more new charges and I don't want this being billed to my credit card. David, Reln,Sheldon and others, Keep up the good work and godby Sadly Arthur ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 53 Sat Mar 27, 1993 DITEK [David] at 16:31 EST Arthur -- Be sure to check you mail before you go. I hope to see you again one way or another on GEnie. David ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 54 Sun Mar 28, 1993 CBARRON at 02:36 EST I give up. How do I slice a projected image with a plane so the image to one side of that plane is 'sawed' off. Something like a 'door stop' with a grove on the top, in particular. Just got 2.04.x The manual is fine for reference, as a how to, it is as expected not a how to. Any suggestions as to a good how to source to get used to this computer 3d design stuff???? Will register it, shortly. BTW WITH OR WITHOUT your dongle.prg maccel3 does not activate from with in DC 2.04 but does after program is exited or xcontrol window is on top. dongle.prg makes no difference. Any way to activate it while DC is running? if I get called away from the screen I'd appreciate it. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 55 Sun Mar 28, 1993 DITEK [David] at 03:44 EST CBARRON -- No idea on the books. Anyone else read any generic 3D modelling books? The dongle program allows screen savers to work when DynaCADD isn't active. When it is running however, the dongle is activated and polled continously by DynaCADD. There is no way to stop this short of removing the protection completely. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 56 Sun Mar 28, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 10:23 EST CBARRON, The best way to do anything in 3D is to draw it right from the start.:-) It's not easy to cut something along a plane. You pretty much need to work in all three or four views at one time. I usually setup a TOP, FRONT, RIGHT and ISO view. You could however create a plane by just using a line as a guide and drawing lines straight from it to the lines you need to cut. It's the hard way to do it.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 57 Sun Mar 28, 1993 P.NEREO [Philip] at 21:55 EST CBARRON - What helped me learn CAD was taking a couple of semesters of Computer drafting (AutoCad) at the local Junior college. And lots of practise along with requisite manual fumbling! ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 58 Mon Mar 29, 1993 G.NELSON16 [xoxo] at 20:35 EST Is there keyboard shortcuts for accessing the value calculators memories, sometimes the mouse movements seem overly active. (to much mousing around) Gerald. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 59 Tue Mar 30, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 22:27 EST David, I was following the instructions of the 2-D tutorial to learn the basics, and when I was asked to Insert Section Lines there was a total lockup. Is there any idea if this will be fixed? If so, does this mean Ill have to send in my disks? I have the 2-D version for the Atari. Dennis ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 60 Wed Mar 31, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 23:07 EST Dennis, I'll try and repeat it on our copy of 2D tomorrow. If your lucky maybe it will screw up too. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 61 Thu Apr 01, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 20:47 EST Dave, I tryed to section a square today in DynaCADD 2D and it didn't lock up but it screwed up big time. My page sizes changed to negative 0's and it wouldn't let me change them. If I selected a preset size it would come up -0. Also it wouldn't let me back to the drawing and saying they where improper page sizes. My square disappeared as soon as I completed the section command sequence. I had the distance set to .5 and the angle to 45 on full scale. Hope that helps some!:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 62 Thu Apr 01, 1993 DITEK [David] at 22:16 EST Joey -- It sounds like the same problem that Sheldon encountered a while back. I have no idea how the full version works and the 2D version doesn't since it is the EXACT same code. Just one more of the truly wonderful experiences encountered during software development. :-) I will be leaving in a few hours for a much needed vacation until the 8th or 9th of April. Any questions, I am sure can be handled by the experienced users here on GEnie or you can call for direct tech support at (416)479-1990. David ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 63 Fri Apr 02, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 19:15 EST Hum, Wonder if Ill have to live with this problem? Dennis ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 64 Sat Apr 03, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 10:28 EST Dave, It's definately a dangerious bug since you can lose your drawing data if your not aware of it, not to mention you can't section. This is on the same system we've had since 87 so I know theres something slightly different in there.:-) Maybe is linked to the disabling of the 3D button somehow? You've thrown all the Icons off 1 after the 3D button.:-) Hey, you just had a vacation last year!:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 65 Fri Apr 09, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 10:07 EDT Can someone explain how to get my dimensioning to draw the left arrow in DIMHORI or the bottom arrow in DIMVERT? I dont have it surpressed. And if I do suppress arrow 1 or arrow 2 it just cuts the arrow off that was drawn. Once again Im using the 2-D version. Dennis ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 66 Sat Apr 10, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 19:53 EDT Sounds like another bug Dennis. I'll give it a try at work Monday and let you know if ours does it. If you don't have it surpressed it should appear fine. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 67 Tue Apr 13, 1993 DITEK [David] at 16:10 EDT Dennis -- Thanks for being patient. I'm back from vacation now and will be doing what I can to knock out the bugs you have found. I have an idea what has happened and if correct should clear up all the new bugs in one sweep. Joey -- As always, I appreciate the help. I checked on the icons after the 3D button and found no shift. When you installed the 2D version did you make sure you did a full install or did you just copy the program into an existing DynaCADD directory? One of the configuratuion files did change for this version so it would cause problems if you did. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 68 Wed Apr 14, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 20:03 EDT Long message warning ... Dave, I always use the install program, then copy a few of the files over such as our line styles, hatch patterns and any fonts we've changed. I haven't had a chance to try the dimension thing yet. Been busy this week, plus their getting new carpet at work so there moving everything around and the Mega got disabled for a while.:-) I ran into a few other weird problems in the 3D version last week. I laid out a soccar ball in 3D then ported it to Cyber Sculpt using the 3D2 export feature... When I loaded it into Cyber Sculpt two faces went to the corner edge of the screen no matter how I rotated it. Pretty cool actually!:-) It looked as if they had no coordinates or something. Another problem I ran into is exporting DXF files. B-Spline curves seem to load in our other software corrupted. It looks as if every other line is missing. I can work around this by importing the original DXF back into DynaCADD and saving it again, then it loads fine. Like loading the straight line conversion back into DynaCADD allows it to save the lines out correctly the second time. It's not really a problem just something I came across. Possibly a tip if your having trouble exporting DXF files to other programs. OK heres some interesting news... and a few questions, maybe:-) When we first got the Plasma Torch the guy said he didn't think I would be able to cut sequence any of the scanned images coming from SL because of there complexity. Good thing I showed him a simple one.:-) Let me splain... Since the DXF file only supports straight lines (along with their software) all the curves get translated into tiny little straight lines. In order for the Plasma Torch to operate the user has to tell it which end of the line to start on and on which side of the line to cut. The Cut Sequencing mode also has an Auto feature much like chain selecting in DynaCADD but it appeared not to work so we would have to select every line. My simple DXF had 1239 lines... arghh. Not only that but the program picks whatever it feels like and not what you tell it, some lines it wouldn't pick at all... sheesh. After a couple hours I discovered I could enlarge the DXF image by 15 or so ,in their software, now it auto selects the lines. So this is what I do now... I can take a B&W scanned image and clean it up in Invision, load it into SL and trace it with Speedline, use Dataformer to export it as a CVG file, use CVGtoDEF.TTP and convert that to a DEF file, import that into DynaCADD and export it as a DXF, reload it and export it as a DXF again so it loads properly into ESSI 3, scale that up by 15 to 20 times, cut sequence that, download it to the Torch and scale it down to its normal size, then cut it out... piece of cake!:-) Basically to cut out a 6" object I have to enlarge it to about 45" tall before their software will auto sequence the tiny little lines. I guess it's accuracy isn't even close to DynaCADDs but then it only cost 10 times as much.:-) Nathan, if your wondering why I don't use Dataformer to write the DXF it's because I like having the true curves imported into DynaCADD for editing. It's easier to trim lines and such with the tools provided by DynaCADD. I did create a Cyclops from scratch in Outline 3 last week and cut it out 18" tall.:- ) He was actually 8 foot tall but I'm limited to scrap metal right now, unless I pay for it. Opps... forgot to ask the question! How does DynaCADD decide how to divide the B-Spline curves into lines? I haven't had much time to experiment since it takes a while to actually do the entire thing. I want to know if scaling will increase and decrease the line resolution of my object or if it always divides a line into the same number of pieces or what. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 69 Wed Apr 14, 1993 DITEK [David] at 21:11 EDT Joey -- I tried the dimensioning bug and it does exist in any version compiled with the latest compiler and used on a system without a true math chip. The 68881 in per. mode also appears to screw up. I am trying to track down the exact problem but am absolutely positive that all the bugs are related including Greg Matthijetz's problem with selecting text with a window. I have managed to duplicate all bugs. As soon as I get an update and recompile we will be updating all those with version numbers of 2.04.06 and up. The resolution of the bspline and bezier intervals uses a algorithm based on the resolution of the current device. It determines the least number of intervals that will generate a smooth curve at a specific resolution (dpi). All arcs, ellipses, etc.. use the same algorithm. In version 3.00 you could easily use the library functions in the programmer's shell to extract the location of a curve at a specific distance or as a percentage of the total length allowing custom control of the interval break. I think this would be the optimal solution. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 70 Thu Apr 15, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 23:28 EDT Good deal on the bugs... sort of... it's nice on this end to know we're not crazy.:-) So on the DXF file format whats the algorithm consider to be the DPI of the output device? If it does consider the DPI of DXF to be the same all the time then it should be possible to effect the output of the resolution by scaling the original before output. Possible some experimenting on a simple curve would be helpful! Glad to see you survived the vacation!:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 71 Sat Apr 17, 1993 DF.WATSON [Dennis] at 09:25 EDT David, Very good. Im using the 2-D version to design my 1/4 scale miniature V-8 for my Radio Control toys. Im now working on the crankshaft. Thanks for checking out the bugs. Dennis ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 72 Fri Apr 23, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 20:26 EDT Dave, you may have gotten this one already but in version 2.04.02 you can't double click on the Hatch Pattern box or it crashes. It happened a while back but I'm just now getting around to posting.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 73 Tue Apr 27, 1993 DITEK [David] at 03:45 EDT Joey -- Thanks for the tip. I'll check it out for the next update. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 74 Tue Apr 27, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 23:40 EDT David, No problem!:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 75 Wed May 05, 1993 M.SKIPPER1 [SKIPPER] at 03:15 EDT I recently inquired about the 2D version of DynaCAD and was told that the program was on hold at the manufacturer because of a bug in the program. Has the bug been repaired and the program released again or is it still on hold? Does the current version of 2D DynaCAD have an option to change the drawing mode making it possible to create an orthrgraphic drawing? If so is it difficult to use? Thanks, Bryan Skipper ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 76 Wed May 05, 1993 DITEK [David] at 10:33 EDT Bryan -- The shipping of DynaCADD 2D and the latest version of DynaCADD 3D is on hold until we receive an update from the company that produces the compiler we use. Based on past dealings with them, I expect the update any day now. DynaCADD 2D does not create automated orthographic views. DynaCADD 3D is required for that option. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 77 Wed May 05, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 20:08 EDT Dave, I came across another bug I forgot to mention way back. It's one of those non-repeatable deals but it seems to happen often enough in the 2D version.:-) Occasional at certain zoom levels when you Transform move or copy things they don't get redrawn. I'm still using 2.04.04 by the way but I noticed it in the DynaCADD 2D version a lot. I'll try and see if I can do it consistantly. Bryan, DynaCADD is easy to use but it takes a week or two to get decent. The process operates mainly from top to bottom so you simply travel down the column making choices. Not only that but it has a help line that tells you what each feature is and displays the key command. Once you get the method down it's a piece of cake.:-) I don't think you'll find a better drafting package for the price. There's a couple ways to do ortho in 2D. You can do 45 degree ortho's using the grid. Set the grid to .707107 and that will give your grid a 1" distance between corners. Then use elipses for all your Arcs and Circles. You could also setup Macros for setting lines to your ortho angle such as 30 and 120 degrees. 3D's probable the best way though.:-) A 2D ISO command would be a nice feature though. You really only need to change the angle of everything drawn to a user defined angle. So Horizontal and Vertical become a user defined angle. Then of coarse all circles and ellipses would have to be handled at the user defined angle. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 78 Thu May 06, 1993 DITEK [David] at 05:59 EDT Joey -- Sounds like that bug is another generated from the same root. Do you ever get it running the TT version? The method you described is the way I used to generate ISO drawings on the very first version of AutoCAD. :-) I have always thought the ability to take 2D views and automatically generate a 3D object would be a useful set of commands to include. Maybe some 3D party developer will create a package that does just that for DynaCADD 3.00. :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 79 Fri May 07, 1993 CBARRON at 02:49 EDT 2d views -> 3d object would be more 'interesting, than a iso creator. grin. Since DC 2.x for atari systems, does remove hidden lines, can dc 3 (when avail.?) burn only visible in a window? Burning fairly simple 3d objects, one object selected at a time is a pain.... ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 80 Fri May 07, 1993 DITEK [David] at 08:33 EDT CBARRON -- The BurnView command is now called Map Entity is version 3.00 and supports selection of entities to be mapped using mouse locations, windows, poly windows, and view windows all with about a dozen filters. For instance I can now tell DynaCADD quite easily to map all the yellow entities on layers 5 through 7 that are either arcs or circles with a phantom line style and that cross an input polyline. :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 81 Sat May 08, 1993 CBARRON at 03:34 EDT Very intersting, when can I upgrade this 3D ST/TT version 2 to 3.? ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 82 Sat May 08, 1993 DITEK [David] at 12:45 EDT CBARRON -- The Windows version will be available shortly. Final beta will appear in less than a month and we're always looking for beta testers. Sorry, we can't give release dates on any other platforms. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 83 Fri May 21, 1993 CBARRON at 01:18 EDT I have a couple of 'dumb' questions, will I await new versions. ... When I 'burn' circular arcs into 2d they become ellipitical arcs of equal radii when they are circles in the view burned, and elliptical arcs with an x- radius = true radius and a y-radius of .000...1 (smallest non zero value printed in verify window.). How do I get the 2d arcs to be circular and the 2d lines (the projection perp. to the plane of the 3d arc) in the 2d 'burns so that a couple of lines and hidden lines can be added? If it is in this manual just say where, thanks. (The manual could use page protectors....). ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 84 Fri May 21, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 19:23 EDT CBARRON, Could you say that again?:-) I've got it to the point where your 3D circles become 2D ellipse but what happens next. If you want to draw in the 2D mode after burning something you have to make sure to switch to 2D during that part. I would just take the ellipse that got burned into 2D and draw a circle in it's place. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 85 Sat May 22, 1993 CBARRON at 02:28 EDT Joey, because the arcs and lines are elliptical arcs, intersection and end do not recognize them as legal objects. result is that it is difficult to locate points on these objects. The objects are not selectable in 2d or 3d mode. Example take two lines and an arc between these lines, and a line connecting the other ends of the first two lines in the top view, project without faces in the 'z' direction. Select the front view and burn it. Result should be that one of the ends of the apparent line is not selectable (the ends corresponding to the arc.) Projecting with out faces seems to make easier to modify 2d views, but not with arcs. (less confussion as to which mode which object is in if they are all the same, in the 'final working' drawings, of the 3d object. Redrawing the object is one solution provided you create enough 'construction' lines in the 3d model, before burning lines seem ok but circular arcs seem to be converted to elliptical arcs and are useless to find points on... Also does anyone know of problems between dymacadd dongle, and lexicors dongles? I am thinking of some possible animation and 'chronos' etc. look interesting given the 3d2 export possibility. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 86 Sat May 22, 1993 DITEK [David] at 05:18 EDT CBARRON -- It sounds like the problem you are having could be solved by DynaCADD detecting that a 3D arc mapped to 2D ends up having radii of equal length and setting the entity type to a 2D arc as opposed to a 2D elliptical arc. That should be an easy addition. Either way, the 'end' snap modifier should work on both types while the intersection requires a 2D arc. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 87 Sat May 22, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 11:18 EDT CBARRON, I'll give that a try and see what happens. You should be able to locate the center of the Ellipse and the ends no problem. Then you could just take a normal Arc and draw over the top of it. another possibility is there are two sets of lines on top of each other. I'll be right back... 2 minutes later...:-) OK, I loaded my 3D setup, drew two parallel lines about 3 inchs long, connected them at the top with and ARC and connected the bottom with a line. Then I projected it a Z depth of 3 inchs no faces. I did all this in the front view with GCP set to Front. Then I burned the view to 2D. Switched to 2D and there was indeed elliptical Arcs. I then deleted each line once and hit regenerate and there was a second set underneath. Basically because I burned ALL so both sets got burned on top of each other. Next I drew a Circular Arc over the top of the elliptical arc using the origin and both end points. Set filter to elliptical arc and deleted the old arc. That all worked no problem. Is that close to what you need? I've been using the two dongles together no problem. The Chronos Dongle goes in the serial port. I actually plugged it in the end of my cable between it and the modem. It's been there ever since! Dave, would it be possible to get the Subfigure format? I was thinking about writing an ACC to convert ASCII into a subfigure. I've got Screen Grabber changed so you can capture the screen in ASCII. I thought it might be cool to take that and make a subfigure out of it for plotting. I could use a DEF file but I saw a few other people mention they could use ASCII import features so the ACC looked like the best bet. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 88 Sat May 22, 1993 DITEK [David] at 14:18 EDT Joey -- DEF would be the way to go to insure future compatibility. If your not really worried about it and still want to get the format, I will have the office send out a NDA followed by the specs. The subfigure format is nearly identical to the part and drawing format so once you know one... :-) What 'C' package are you using. I know that Pure C used these bizarre 10 byte doubles the last time I checked so binary compatibility would be a problem with that package. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 89 Sun May 23, 1993 CBARRON at 03:22 EDT David, in case I am mistaken the 3d object is a circular arc. It gets burned to a 2d elliptical arc of equal radii. (the original 3d radius..) problem is that DC sees it as an elliptical arc and refuses to find ends. Similiarly in a different view perp. to the plane of the 3d arc it is 'should be a line in 2d' but it is an an elliptical arc with given radius in one direction and .00000001 (looks like smallest printable from zero, in the verify window. It only sounds the bell, when selecting the burned objects... Joey. Fine now, if you burn the view perpendicular to fromt so that the edge of the curve is showing. Burn that view. Result is the narrow elliptical arcs I mentioned. The ends of the 'line' are not snapable. ----------| | __________| ^ |------ this end of object not snappable. Current solution I used is hybrid 3d/2d drawing, this could get messy if this drawing was left alone for a while. Also draw lines in 3d, burn them and delete the 3d lines, (got to be an easier way to get from 3d to 2d....) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 90 Sun May 23, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 12:16 EDT CBARRON, I can't figure out why you would want an elliptical arc from the top?:-) It's just a straight line but I went and tried it anyway and I can still select the ends an middle. Dave, Glad to see you guys still speak in future terms!:-) The only thing bad about DEF is I don't believe you can merge it into an existing drawing. I'll see you in E-Mail! ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 91 Mon May 24, 1993 CBARRON at 02:09 EDT Joey, the problem DC sees it as an elliptical arc not a straight line after the burn. might just email the entire drawing/part files/folder... I can work around it presently as a hybrid 2d/3d drawing at present. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 92 Mon May 24, 1993 K.HEINRICHS [K.Heinrichs] at 12:16 EDT Hello everyone. I am in need of some help with a project that I have taken on. Its possible that I have gotten over my head here but that is nothing new. First off I must tell you that I have no real experience in cadd and have only had DnyaCadd 2D for a short time. The local museum here has a large map that represents the homesteads of the area. They are in the process of moving the museum and have decided that the map is too large. I suggested that I could redo the map and print it out on one of the plotters where I work. This didn't seem like a big deal at the time. OK the border lines and names were a breeze. Next the rivers. HELP!!! Is there an agency that would have this info in a format that I could merge with what I have all ready done. I've tried putting them in by just looking at the original map and transposing that to the screen but I am not real happy with this method. Any suggestions would be helpful. K. Heinrichs ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 93 Mon May 24, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 19:40 EDT K.Heinrich, Hmm... I don't know of any agency but if you could get a DXF file you could use it. You might try making a grid overlay for the real map so you can accurately trace the rivers. You can probably buy a smaller version of the map form the company that makes that one. I'd look for their name and give them a call. CBARRON, OK!:-) Dave, I found the problem with the Transform Copy! Try this... Draw a couple lines at different angles anywhere. Select one of the lines to copy/move, Zoom By Window onto the end and select it as your first point, now Zoom Last, then Zoom by Window onto the end of the next line and select it as your to Second point, then hit your right button and nothing should happen... Yet if you hit regenerate your line will appear. It has something to do with Zooming Last between selecting your points. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 94 Wed May 26, 1993 DITEK [David] at 20:27 EDT K.Heinrichs -- I checked with a friend who writes survey software for a living. Here in Canada the agencies to contact would be Canadian Inland Waters, the Department of Natural Resources and of course, the government listings up here are in the phone book under the blue pages. I think your best bet would be to start with whatever the natural resources department goes under and follow it from there. Whatever form the data comes in, I'm sure we can find someone to write a quick convertor to bring it into DynaCADD. Let us know how it works out. Joey -- I'd really like to thank you for finding another bug. :-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 96 Fri Jun 04, 1993 M.SHANNON at 21:58 EDT I just ordered the 2-D package... are there any support files etc. for DYNADCADD that I could use as tutorial stuff? I've had a few years on the drafting boards and hope this will be as useful as my expectations of it are. Must I get 3-D to really appreciate DYNACADD or am I in good territory now. Any comments or feedback will be welcome... Thanks ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 97 Sat Jun 05, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:56 EDT M.SHANNON, Your in the good territory!:-) There are some example files you might want to download in the library. I uploaded a few and so have a couple others, just search for DYNACADD. I started using DynaCADD in 89?, I think. I'm positive once you get the hang of it you'll not go back to doing it by hand. We've almost completely eliminated drawing by hand altogether. Have any questions this is the place to ask! Dave, Have you gotten a hold of the Cyrel Card yet? I was trying DynaCADD in the 256 color mode and the Icons disappear. You select one and instead of turning black the disappear. Not a big problem because the reappear when you select a new one. I kind of draw on autopilot anyway so the missing Icons don't bother me at all but it's rather weird. I may just have something set wrong. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 98 Sat Jun 05, 1993 DITEK [David] at 05:12 EDT M.SHANNON - Welcome. I'm sure any questions or stumbling blocks you happen upon will be easily resolved online here. Once you get the hang of computer aided drafting, there's no looking back. :-) Joey -- No Cyrel card yet. Sounds like a bug in thier VDI driver. The blits always seem to be the last thing they get worked out. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 99 Sat Jun 05, 1993 S.WINICK at 06:28 EDT M.SHANNON - DynaCADD is an extremely powerful and fast program. You can also effectively shorten the learning curve dramatically if you can find someone who is proficient with the program to give you a brief 'tour' of the program. I generally find that after a few hours with a customer running through DynaCADD's features, they can generally get it up and running effectively almost immediately. And.... I'll go one step further than Joey. I no longer do ANY drawing board drafting! ;-] DAVID - What's the status of the 'fixed' version of DynaCADD 2D? I've got a backorder for product that goes back ..... forever! ;-] Sheldon (Computer Studio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 100 Sat Jun 05, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 17:21 EDT Sheldon, I refuse to do any drawing board drafting now. Kind of pointless actually.:-) Dave, I think your right on the VDI stuff, their working on it though! ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 101 Sat Jun 05, 1993 DITEK [David] at 17:33 EDT Sheldon -- We have a large number of orders ourselves waiting to go out. The second the version is recompiled I will definitely post here. Sorry for the delay, we're doing everything we can. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 102 Mon Jun 07, 1993 SGUBER at 19:22 EDT David: I have almost finished a project of putting the Construction Specifications Institute "Standard Reference Symbols" info into figures that can be used in DynaCadd drawings. I am putting together the booklet now. If anyone is interested, leave me a mailing address, and I will get information out on how to purchase the symbols and the 500+ DynaCadd fonts that i have available. Sol ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 103 Wed Jun 09, 1993 DITEK [David] at 06:58 EDT Sol -- Nice to hear. We are currently looking at putting together a few sets of symbol libraries with DynaCADD 3.00. If you are interested leave me a phone number in Email and I'll give you a call. Take care, David ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 104 Thu Jun 10, 1993 S.WINICK at 20:57 EDT Sol, Let me know when the symbols library is ready and the price. Thanks. Sheldon ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 105 Thu Jun 10, 1993 M.SHANNON at 22:46 EDT David, Please send me the recompiled version of 2D so I can forgo the delay any further with added complications OK? MS ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 106 Sun Jun 27, 1993 SGUBER at 18:28 EDT I have finsihed my Standard Reference Symbols according to the Construction Specifications Institute. If anyone would like to see sample pages from the manual, leave me a message as to your address. Sol Guber ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 107 Sun Jun 27, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 19:12 EDT Sol, What are the Standard Reference Symbols according to the Construction Specifications Institute? What a mouthful!:-) I was just wondering. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 108 Mon Jun 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:42 EDT Sol, Can you upload an IMG file that shows some of the samples? (Great to see you on here, BTW. For those who may not know, Sol is one of the pioneering ST programmers from 'way back.) Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 109 Mon Jun 28, 1993 SGUBER at 19:55 EDT joey: Constutciton Specifications Institute has many,mnay specs for how drawings should appear. These figures are fro construction documents blueprints, arcetectural drawings, structural, etc. These symbols will just make things easier, since they are so common. Al: I could upload an .IMG file, but I would rather send you something. If you give me your address, I promise not to send you thousands of pieces of mail, but you will go onto an excluseive mailing list. :-) Sol ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 110 Tue Jun 29, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:53 EDT Sol, My address is easy to post, since it's on all the Secrets of ... tips 'n' tricks files I have posted. (Check them out sometime...): Al Fasoldt Systems Editor Syracuse Newspapers Box 4915 Syracuse, NY 13221 Thanks! Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 111 Tue Jul 06, 1993 T.THOMPSON26 [Tom T.] at 01:46 EDT I would be interested in your version of the Standard Reference Symbols. Please send the sample pages. Thanks Tom Thompson 2126 W. Devonshire Mesa, AZ 85201 ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 112 Tue Jul 13, 1993 J.KING78 [JOBIKI] at 18:29 EDT If I may interrupt, I know I could dowmload the archives but this should be an easy question. What should I do to make a SLM 804 print with DynaCadd ? I have no trouble with my 1624 Panasonic which I use at home,but at work I have the laser and I am very "green" about the use of it .Thanks,I will be reading. P.S. I have just move out of Drafix and I find DynaCadd everything and more . JOBIKI ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 113 Wed Jul 14, 1993 DITEK [David] at 00:35 EDT JOBIKI -- For DynaCADD to print to the SLM 804 you must have the Diablo emulator installed on your machine. This software comes bundled with the printer so it shouldn't be a problem. Once installed, select one of the SLM804 drivers from the print dialog box in DynaCADD and you should be off and running. David ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 114 Wed Jul 14, 1993 P.NEREO [Philip] at 02:54 EDT JOBIKI - Select OUTPUT - PRINTER then configure with either the draft or final slm804 driver. The draft prints lines darker, but has jaggies. The main shortcoming is you can only print 'best fit'; not to a particular scale. However - if you pick up a cheap used copy of Ultrascript or a not so cheap copy of the more up to date and better featured Composcript, you can select OUTPUT - POSTSCRIPT and print to disk at a certain scale and then leave DCadd and open Uscript and print the file with the SLM at an exact scale. Comes in handy. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 115 Wed Jul 14, 1993 J.KING78 [JOBIKI] at 06:27 EDT Great! I will give it a try today at work.Thank you for the quick response.- Jobiki ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 116 Wed Jul 14, 1993 J.KING78 [JOBIKI] at 20:28 EDT "gee ,Dorothy I should have thought of it for you".... it works. I thank you all again. Now I just have to get some toner so that triangle of red lights will go off.-Jobiki ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 117 Thu Jul 15, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:51 EDT Jobiki, Sometimes you can pull your toner cart and reshake it a little. Not all the way out, just the whole assemble. Might get a couple more weeks out of it... or not.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 118 Thu Jul 15, 1993 J.KING78 [JOBIKI] at 06:30 EDT Joey,thanks for the tip. I been shaking that cartridge as though as I had the chills.Here at our shop we learn to milk tha Canon copier cartridge ye rs ago since the owner says we never have money for such extravagant purchases. By the way Joey did Dave Small ever get back to you about the GCR transfer?- Jobiki ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 119 Fri Jul 16, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:26 EDT Jobiki, No, I had assumed he did it? I wrote him the same night you wrote me. He never responded so I thought everything was fine. Might try writing STACE and see what he says. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 120 Fri Jul 16, 1993 J.KING78 [JOBIKI] at 06:25 EDT Thank you Joey, I will give that a try. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 121 Sun Jul 18, 1993 MICV [Keith] at 20:50 EDT Any news on the Windows version of Dynacadd? Keith ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 122 Tue Jul 20, 1993 DITEK [David] at 01:10 EDT Keith -- We are on the final stretch to getting the product out the door. Beta testing has begun, but with documentation being what it is, it is still a few months off. I'll post the full press release here when it is complete. David ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 123 Wed Aug 04, 1993 SGUBER at 21:21 EDT Joey: I uploaded a DynaCadd font a called animals. See what you can do with it. Sol ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 124 Thu Aug 05, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:03 EDT Thanks Sol! I'll grab it soon as it appears... or now, whichever comes first.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 125 Fri Aug 06, 1993 M.PFEIFER [M.PFEIFER] at 22:47 EDT I've heard a lot about DynaCadd, but I've never seen it myself. I have the old Cad 3D and it is not very capable as far as I am concerned. How much better is DynaCadd? How much does it cost? Mike ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 126 Fri Aug 06, 1993 M.SHANNON [Morgan] at 23:39 EDT Hi, I just recieved my DynaCADD-2D and after installing found I didn't need the "TT" version in my DynaCADD folder (I figured it wouldn't be there since "INSTALL" asked me about it. Just checking). The 2-D demo is great for detail drawings but I'm interested in a tutuorial that will give me more of an overall look at the functions I need to be familiar with. SInce I'm coming from the drafting boards I understand the geology... what I need is the topography! Like attempting to move\adjust a line (where is the "hand" like the one I had in EASYDRAW?) Anyway I'm a complete newcomer here and it looks as if this learning curve is steeper than SL... am I right or in left field? Any input will be greatly appreciated Thanks Morgan ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 127 Sat Aug 07, 1993 CBARRON at 01:40 EDT Mike - DC 3d is worlds above cad3d both wrt power & price! I forget the price, but it is the most exp. prog. I have . Over $500... morga* check out trim & aligm , to 'adjust' limes im DCAD. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 128 Sat Aug 07, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 07:46 EDT Mike, Cyber Sculpt is much better for 3D stuff then CAD 3D. If your just looking for a quick 3D program for animation purposes check it out. Lexicor has at for around $25 I believe. DynaCADD is full featured CAD program there isn't any comparison between it and CAD 3D or Cyber Sculpt for that matter. If you need to do accurate 3D and 2D drafting then DynaCADD will do it nicely. //////// Long Post Warning //////// Morgan, DynaCADD is very precise and placing things with a hand is not.:-) It's best to work with the tools provided for accurately placing lines and such. DynaCADD is very simple, it only looks complex and it's learning curve isn't even close to SL's. The basic operation is all you need to worry about when your starting out. DynaCADD's menus are arranged in such a way that you start at the top and continue to the bottom. Which ever Icon is black is the current tool your using. Everything is organized in the same manner. Just go top to bottom each time. DynaCADD uses the coordinate Plane system which basically mean you have X and Y values. On your drawing page is the origin where X and Y are 0,0. X is across and Y is up and down. To the right X is positive to the left it's negative. Going up Y is positive going down it's negative. You probably already figured that out or knew about it anyway.:-) Next thing to remember is any type of LINE or CIRCLE or anything you can place on the screen using a tool is called an entity. that comes in hadny when reading the directions.:-) Often you have to do things in a certain order so it will tell you to choose point #1, point #2, etc... This is just the order of the steps you must take to accomplish a certain activity. For instance when moving a line you would choose your FROM point first then your TO point. Note that holding the SHIFT key down will let you unselect individual entities. DEL will back up one step if you choose something by accident or place something in the wrong place. Then UNDO will undo everything since your last Menu selection. Now that you have the basics downs there is only two other menu's you have to worry about. They appear in the very bottom row. Normally DynaCADD wants one of two things. It wants you to select and entity for something to effect or it wants you to select a point for placing an entity or moving it about. One menu has all the options for selecting points like... END, ORIGIN, IX, IY... etc. The other menu is for selecting entities and has things like INSIDE WINDOW, OUTSIDE WINDOW... etc. These two things always operate the same. You always select things using your left mouse button. when finished hit you right mouse button. Left for selecting right when finished. Lets get back to your original question.:-) Let suppose you have a vertical line 5" long and a 2" circle. You wish to move one end of the line to the middle of the circle. Theres several ways you can move it. If you just wish to MOVE it over or something then TRANSFORM TRANSLATE is the best method. Once you decide you wish to use TRANSFORM TRANSLATE MOVE icon there are some simple steps to take. First it wants to know what to move. This is where the entity selection menu posp up. You can pick on the line, draw a window around, choose all whatever. Once you've chosen the line it will turn to a doted pattern so you can tell it's selected. When your finished hit your right button. Now that you have your line selected you wish to move it using the next menu that pops up in the entity selection menus place. It wants to know where you are moving the line from and where you're moving the line to. Now if you wanted you could line up your cross hair on the end of the line and pick your from point, then guess at the center of the circle and pick your to point. Hit your button and it'll probably look pretty good... until you measure it. Opps... it's .04567 off center.:-) So theres some other tools for helping you along. You can use END to snap your "from" point to the end of your line (the end is any place past the center so you don't have to be exact). Then you can use ORIGIN to select your "to" point on the circle. But lets say it's not that easy. Lets say you want to move the line 1.7" to the left. Now is where the coordinate plane comes into action. This time you choose your line to move and hit yoru right button. Next you can pick anywhere on the page as your "from" point. DynaCADD doesn't care where your line is, it only cares where the "from" and "to" points are so all you need to worry about is them. This comes in real handy if you'd like to move something at the top of the page using a distance at the bottom of the page. Anyway, what you want to do is pick your "from" point on the page. This time instead of choosing your "to" point you can click on the IX icon and enter a distance. Since your using IX that tells DynaCADD the last point you set will be considered 0,0. So we can enter a value of 1.7" but we want to move it left. remeber anything left of 0,0 is negative so we have to make it -1.7". Now enter the number then hit the right button and your line will move 1.7" to the left. That all sounds complex but it's not.:-) IX, IY, IZ are all considered part of the Relative coordinate system. Basically that means the last point you set is considered to be 0,0. Any number you enter using IX, IY or IZ will place the next point that distance from the last point. X, Y, Z are consider the Absolute coordinate system. If you enter a number using them it will be placed at that exact spot on the page, it uses the pages origin not the last point set as 0,0. Theres also Polar coordinates which allow you to enter a distance using an angle and a distance. For instance you might wish to place a circle 3" away at 45 degrees. Instead of figuring out what the value for X and Y are you can just enter 45 degrees and 3". Each command in DynaCADD has it's own procedure. That procedure will always end up using the bottom two menu's. Figure them out first and the rest will just be learning how the tool uses them. One menu is basically for setting points and the other for selecting entities. Pick things using your left button and end things by hitting your right button. Hope that helps some!:-) Kind of hard to compress everything into one quick tutorial. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 129 Sat Aug 07, 1993 S.WINICK at 08:04 EDT Mike, DynaCADD is a true professional computer aided design and drafting program, whereas Cad 3d was a simple 3d modeling program intended for use as part of the Cyber Studio system. If you want to compare DynaCADD to other programs of similar capabilities, you would have to look at programs such as AutoCADD or VersaCADD. I personally use DynaCADD professionally in my architectural practice for producing all drawings from preliminary 'sketches' to final construction drawings. It has completely replaced the old drawing board (much to the approval of my wife who no longer has to contend with the graphite and ink smudges on my shirt sleeves ;-). Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 130 Sat Aug 07, 1993 S.WINICK at 08:04 EDT Morgan, DynaCADD is not at all like EasyDraw. Since you're coming from the drafting boards, try to think of your DynaCADD screen as your new 'drawing board' and work with it the same way you would on the old drawing board. Select your sheet size, select the scale you want to work with, set the defaults for pen color, size and line style, and start drawing by placing your entities at the exact locations on the paper (computer screen) where you want them, just like you would do on the drawing board. The 'trash can' is your eraser. The 'transform entities' icon opens up three additional sub-menus for making changes of all possible types; just as the 'insert entities' icon does for creating the entities in the first place. The whole key to DynaCADD, just like Calamus/SL, is in understanding the tree structure of the program. Use the 'cheat sheet' in the upper right hand corner of your screen that tells you what each icon is as you run the mouse pointer across the menus to help guide you through the possibilities. Each selection on the first level of the tree (top dozen boxes) will open up the next level of the tree; each selection there will open up the next level from there, and so on. You can quickly jump to any other level of the tree by merely moving the mouse pointer back up to the top level and making another selection. Of course, the best way to get into DynaCADD quickly is to sit down with someone who really knows the program for an hour or so of personal instruction. Once you understand the general layout and tree-structure, the rest is easy, and the conversion from the old drawing board to the computer screen will be a snap. Once you get the hand of DynaCADD, you'll find you can accomplish a tremendous amound of drafting in a very minimum of time, and changes are a breeze! Enjoy. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 131 Sat Aug 07, 1993 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 17:09 EDT I'm considering the purchase of DynaCADD 2D but I'm wondering what kind of output to file support it contains (EPS to File?). This would definitely help me at work. Thanks, Pat ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 132 Sat Aug 07, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 21:27 EDT Pat, DynaCADD has Postscript output options but I've never used them.:-) It also supports DXF, GEM and IMG files plus a ton of plotters and printers. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 133 Sun Aug 08, 1993 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 13:55 EDT Joey, Thanks for the reply. To use the output at work, EPS appears to be the best bet for me. I'll look into DFX also, but GEM and IMG aren't too popular outside the Atari world. And like many others, I have to maintain compatibility with the PC world. So far, that hasn't been a problem and I don't consider that will change for me. Thanks, again. I think I'll do a little bit more investigatin. Pat ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 134 Sun Aug 08, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 20:17 EDT Pat, With a program like GEMview you could change IMG into TIF, TGA or GIF which are a little more popular. If you'd like I can send you an EPS file from DynaCADD to try out. It actually has a seperate Icon just for Postscript output with plenty of options, one of them being EPS. If you really don't need to do actual drafting and just want to make vector files, Outline v3 also outputs EPS files. SOL, I checked out your animals! There great as a font but there not detailed enough to cut out 2 or 3 feet tall. You blow something up that huge it'll lose it's complexity. Soon as I find out what a sheet of steel cost, I'll upload the first CVG. I scabbed it on with another order at work so I don't know when it'll show up. Thanks for the file though! ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 135 Sun Aug 08, 1993 M.SHANNON [Morgan] at 23:10 EDT Joey, Thanks so much for the post, I'll get back to you after I read all of it! Morgan Sheldon, Do you know where I can get any Architectural symbols to use (I have to learn how to insert them still) for floor layouts and floor-plans? I have some reconstruction and re-furbishing to do. Thanks Morgan ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 136 Mon Aug 09, 1993 SGUBER at 19:12 EDT Joey There are three setting on my font converter. Let me upload a version to you in E-Mail that will be the fine version. It might be a lot better than the coarse that I set up the first time. Sol ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 137 Mon Aug 09, 1993 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 21:59 EDT Joey, Thanks for the offer, I'd like to take your up on it at your convenience. Keep it simple, less thank 6.8x11, a few lines/circles and just a bit of text. I have OL3 and for what I need it's not the right program (although it's great for other uses). As part of my design documentation for work I need to do simple block diagrams, timing diagrams and other types of illustrations. I use EasyDraw and PageStream and do okay with them, but I kind of want a more full featured program. Plus, every time I have to convert a figure I lose some detail and I have to "maintain" multiple files. I'd rather export the file directly in the format that I need. And I dont't want to have to add text after the fact. I want to completely annotate the drawings and then merge them into Word (yeah, I know, I don't like it either) as completed EPS figures. I guess I'll also call up my dealer. If they have the program ready for demo I'll run out there and try it out. But I didn't want to base my buying decision on a quickie use of a complex program. I expect to have to put some time into mastering the program before it's completely useful for me. Speaking of useful... thanks again for all the help! Pat ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 138 Tue Aug 10, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 07:25 EDT Got it SOL! I'll let you know something tomorrow, I have to get some sleep this week.:-) No problem Pat! I think theres still a demo on GEnie? I'll whip something simple up so you can see how it transfers. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 139 Tue Aug 10, 1993 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 22:33 EDT Joey, And once again, Thank-you! Pat ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 140 Thu Aug 12, 1993 M.PFEIFER [M.PFEIFER] at 00:39 EDT CBARRON, $500 for DC 3d? What is this program, some off-shoot of the IBM market? My whole system cost me $500 when I bought it a few years ago. Something that costly probably takes up large amounts of hard drive space. I only have a Megafile 30 and it is 3/4 filled. I think I have to pass on DC 3d for now. S.Winick, Well, that explains the price for DynaCADD. The reason I'd like a good CAD program is that I am a budding SF writer and I go into detail about the objects in my universe. I like to be able to see a picture on paper of my ideas because my mind will sometimes update these objects to more refined forms, but forget to tell the rest of me about it. I have a few crude drawings using Degas and Cad 3D, but they just don't fit with what I'm trying to do. My wife wants me to get an IBM system because of the superior performance that IBM-types now have over Atari. Atari was far ahead of DOSasaurus' when I bought my STs, now they are far behind. Anyway, she doesn't want me to buy anymore ST software because we should be purchasing for the new system, not the old. I really love my Ataris, but I saw a 486DX2 66 with a hard drive clocked at 44Mps data transfer rate! My ST takes 5 seconds to save a 20K file. I won't get into that debate here. Thanks for the info on the CAD program. Mike ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 141 Thu Aug 12, 1993 CBARRON at 03:33 EDT M.PREIFER - Dynacadd on my D drive is occupies 2.1 megs. Certain drivers, aux programs like the font editor and makeplot, probably can be removed as well as the tutitorials. Dynacadd is a professional program with professional results at a professional cost. An 030 and fpu is reccommended by myself. It will run on 68000 and will recognize an fpu, but it will be slow at some things on a stock 1040. Wrt to MSDOS, I do not share your wife's conclusions. Windows is slow and even Dynacadd/Autocad will be slower IMHO than an M68030 with fpu at 32MHz. No fusiny about dos limits, x-type vs y-type vs z-type ram, and config.sys files. Intel machines are not user friendly and not the way of the future, once the inevitable DROP of the 'micro' line. It is costing them too much money to be used as an endorsement of the intel clones. What the wave of the future is I do not know. But msdos AINT IT. Os/2 maybe, unix V maybe, not msdos. Os/2 and Unix V applications are currently at astromomical prices for this kind of stuff. Food for thought. It will be an entire software reinvestment as well. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 142 Thu Aug 12, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:32 EDT Mike, Doesn't matter what computer you use you can still get DynaCADD and $500 is a really good price! Take a look at AutoCAD, it sells anywhere from $2500 to $3800, yikes! DynaCADD is a professional quality program. CAD 3D doesn't even compare. Your wife is probable right in suggesting a 66mhz DOS box is more advanced then your 1985 ST design... I guess they finally caught up.:-) My best advice is to look around and find the software you want before you buy another computer. BTW If you'd like some extremely powerful invisioning software check out the Lexicor topics. Cybersculpt and Phoenix can't be beat! Their cheap and extremely powerful. Anyone interested in some metal figures actually cut from a DynaCADD/Outline drawing? I was thinking about offering some for around $10 - $20 plus shipping. I'm not exactly sure what the metal itself will cost but I don't think it'll be much. The one I have finished is a cartoon Cyclops. I'm planning on roughly offering a 2 foot and 4 foot tall cutout size unless someone wants bigger.:-) The metals thin enough where you can actually hang it like a poster. I'll upload a file shortly so you can see what it looks like. The best part is you can show people the Outline .CVG or the DynaCADD drawing that goes with it.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 143 Thu Aug 12, 1993 J.DERNAR at 21:23 EDT Joey is right, Autocad 12 is about $2800 last time we bought it, and we have a lot of them at work. If you are a student you can usually buy the release 10 or 11 for about $700. Same goes for Vellum Cad which I like better of the two. Dynacadd at around $500 is a bargain and I hear it works reeeal well too! Autocad... well it works and that's all we use at work. So for me I'm stuck, but I'd rather use DC from what little I have seen of it. AC has the crummiest menu-ing selection system around. For $500 software, a mega4ste with an accelerator and fpu chip at about $600 (used) and a decent hard drive $400.. you could have $1500 tied up in a very usable system. Oh yea, throw in about $200 premium for a 19" monichrome monitor. You can even use all of your existing software! Ever price DTP packages for windows? They are a lot more than Calamus. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 144 Fri Aug 13, 1993 S.WINICK at 07:19 EDT Morgan, You can easily convert any DXF symbol libraries to DynaCADD format Figures. Many companies have complete symbol libraries for their products. Pella Windows, for example, has a very thorough CADD library which is available free to Architects. The library comes in a 3-ring binder with full documentation on the products, as well as 23 diskettes containing the DXF files and ASCII specifications. To make the conversion to DynaCADD "Figures", just create a blank full size 1:1 scale page, import the DXF symbol you need, and save it out as a "Figure" to your own Figure Folder. Other manufacturers may also have the DXF libraries for products you use frequently. It's also really not very hard to create your own figures for commonly used items. Personally, I like my figures for things like plumbing figures to actually represent the actual fixture I am using so the owner will get a more realistic view of what the fixture will actually look like (especially where specialty fixtures are being used in custom residential work, for example), so I will generally create the figures myself if the manufacturer doesn't offer a DXF library. Once you've created the symbol, it is available forever as part of your figure library. You might want to use folders within the FIGURE folder to keep your figures organized by type or manufacturer. When you save your figures, you should select a logical handle point for each so it will be easy to import them into your drawings. A logical handle point for a water closet plan view, for example, would be the center line of the fixture where it would intersect the wall behind the fixture; for the front elevation of the same fixture it would be the center line of the fixture where it intersects the floor; and for the side elevation for the same fixture it would be the intersection of the wall and floor behind the fixture. Then to import the fixture into your drawings, just choose the "Insert Sfigure(s)" option and digitize on the handle point on your drawing and the figure will be placed automatically at the exact scale of the drawing. One thing to watch out for -- if you have the "Inheritance" option toggled on (Tools menu), the figure will be imported on the same layer it was saved on; if the option is turned off, it will be imported and placed on the currently active layer. It's really easier than it sounds. Create a few figures and try it for yourself. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 145 Fri Aug 13, 1993 S.WINICK at 07:19 EDT Mike, >> $500 for DC 3d? ..... DynaCADD/Atari sells for considerably more than $500. That is the price for the current MS-DOS version of the program. Your comparison of a NEW IBM system's performance to your OLD ST isn't very fair. Try comparing a 1985 vintage PC to a NEW Atari and the result would be just the opposite. Take a look at a new TT030 system and you'll get a more realistic comparison to a new PC-clone. I use the TT030 with DynaCADD professionally in my Architectural practice. I haven't found an MS-DOS based machine yet that can hold a candle to to my CADD setup. If you do go the clone route, you can still use DynaCADD as there is an MS-DOS version available, and a Windows version is currently being developed as well. Unfortunately there doesn't appear to be an OS/2 version on the horizon. OS/2 is at least a 32-bit operating system for the Intel-based machines. Under MS/DOS, any Intel-based machine is being severely handicapped by the archaic limitations of that operating system. You might keep in mind that in addition to DynaCADD costing considerably less than a program such as AutoCADD, it (DynaCADD) also works excellently with a mouse, whereas AutoCADD really requires a large digitizing tablet ("expensive") to be truly effective. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 146 Fri Aug 13, 1993 S.WINICK at 07:20 EDT Joey, >> Anyone interested in some metal figures actually cut from a >> DynaCADD/Outline drawing? Sounds neat -- something that would be nice to have hanging on the wall near our CADD system at the store. Put me down for one. What kind of "interesting" looking metal can you use? And of course I'll want the CADD files so I can throw it up on the screen during a demo session for new customers. ;-] Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 147 Fri Aug 13, 1993 S.WINICK at 07:20 EDT John, >> Autocad... AC has the crummiest menu-ing selection system >> around. Actually, I believe that honor probably belongs to VersaCADD. AutoCADD is a close second though. ;-] AutoCADD works best if you have a really LARGE digitizing tablet and spend the time to create a menu structure on an overly right on the tablet (AutoCADD offers an Architectural overly for example -- this extra cost option alone costs about as much as DynaCADD, and that still doesn't include the price of the tablet!). Of course, that option will also effectively limit the drawing area of the LARGE tablet to a very SMALL section. And anyone using this approach will look like he or she is watching a table tennis tournament as his/her head keeps bouncing up and down between the tablet and the monitor screen. ;-] Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 148 Fri Aug 13, 1993 P.NEREO [Philip] at 12:08 EDT Sol - Most of the fonts with DCadd are outlines. Which of the ones you offer are single line fonts, like the Craftsman style font you uploaded a while back? I received the info you sent on symbols, but the fonts were just listed by name. Is there a sheet or file available that shows what they look like? Thanks. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 149 Sat Aug 14, 1993 M.SHANNON [Morgan] at 03:34 EDT Sheldon ARe there any "figures" currntly available on GEnie? Also thanks you for the informative post. Best regards Morgan ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 150 Sat Aug 14, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 07:52 EDT Sheldon, What kind of metal can you afford.:-) It can cut up to 1" thick, 8 foot by 10 foot. We always have some degree of Steel, Stainless, Copper and Brass. I can get any kind of metal but Coppers the only metal I've run across that does really interesting visual things. I'll provide the DynaCADD files along with the .CVG and .DXF files no problem.:-) Check your E- Mail. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 151 Sat Aug 14, 1993 S.WINICK at 10:11 EDT Morgan, You'll have to do a search of the DynaCADD library here on GEnie to see what's available as far as 'figures' go. I'm really not sure as I generally just create my own as needed (usually in the evening between GEnie sessions ;-). Check also with the product manufactures for the products you'll be needing -- many maintain very thorough DXF libraries of their products for architects and designers. Joey, Oooooohhhhh...... 1" thick copper, 8' x 10' size would really make a great display!!! Let's see..... how big a 2nd mortgage do I have to take out on the house to pay for it? ;-] Catch 'ya in E-mail. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 152 Sat Aug 14, 1993 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 15:21 EDT REALM, Greetings, right back at you! I just received your download. Thank-you! Your efforts are greatly appreciated. I'll try your file on Monday at work stand-along and within a Word document. I'll let you know what happens. I have high hopes that the results will be great. Thank-you, again, for your time and efforts, Pat (Hmm, and your metal figures sound interesting. I'll be looking forward to the demo.) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 153 Sat Aug 14, 1993 SGUBER at 16:14 EDT Joey: i would also be interested in large metal figures. However, the shipping cost combined with copper costs might be real high. Can I send you lots of pennies to melt down. :-) Sol ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 154 Sat Aug 14, 1993 SGUBER at 16:19 EDT Phillip: I uploaded three .IMG files that show the fonts that I have available. All of themcan be seen by telling me what your address is, and I will send you my catalog cuts. Sol ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 155 Sat Aug 14, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 18:09 EDT Sol, This metal stuff doesn't weigh much after you cut it out. I'm trying to use the thinest stuff possible. An entire 4'x8' sheet of 20ga.(.036") weighs about 48 pounds. Thats only .6 lbs per square foot so if you got a 2'x1' foot tall flat square it would only weigh about a pound and half. Thats before cutting anything out of it. You can send me lots of pennies too but then you'll have to pay shipping both ways on the same amount of copper.:-) I was also hoping to get at least (4) 4' tall pieces out of sheet so you can divide the cost by that as well. Unless your like Sheldon and just want a $2000 piece of Copper.:-) Pat, no problem! It's not anything special just some randomly thrown on things to see if they transfer correctly. BTW, We just shipped two Stainless Steel heat exchangers that where roughly 60feet long, 8foot in diameter and wieghed 60 tons each. It was all designed using DynaCADD! What a program!:-) Wonder what shipping on 60tons is? My UPS chart stops at 70lbs.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 156 Sun Aug 15, 1993 L.CHANDLER at 00:08 EDT Sheldon If I do manage to get a 1meg ST Book from Eur Cpe, can I run Dynacadd on it? I just want to carry some drawings around with me. Linda. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 157 Sun Aug 15, 1993 CBARRON at 01:27 EDT 1 meg might be tight! Which tos is in the STBook anyway??? ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 159 Sun Aug 15, 1993 S.WINICK at 07:45 EDT Linda, The STBook is an 8MHz machine without a math coprocessor. If you were to get a 1mb STBook from Europe, it would be virtually worthless if you want to run a program such as DynaCADD. It would simply be too small, too slow, and too underpowered. If you absolutely MUST have portability with DynaCADD, let me suggest one of the new '486 notebooks. I'll be happy to make a specific recommendation and give you a price for one if you'd like. Just let me know if you'd prefer color or monochrome and what size hard drive you'd like. (I hate to have to recommend a non-Atari product, but since Atari has chosen to NOT offer any products in this country to fill the customers needs for portability, I really have no alternative). DynaCADD/PC is essentially the same program as the Atari version (although it doesn't seem to run as smoothly or quickly as the TT version -- personal opinion only). I would recommend a notebook computer with an integral trackball on the keyboard if you intend to do a lot of DynaCADD work while travelling. Please take this to E-mail if you need any more specific information. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) p.s. DynaCADD drawings can be transferred between your Atari and a PC-Clone but....... you will have to save your drawings out as DEF files to do the transfer. DynaCADD's native DWG files are not compatible between platforms. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 160 Sun Aug 15, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 17:41 EDT Solution needed, I imported a decorative border design into DynaCADD. Using the Beizer curve function, I am tracing the design to get a smooth transition. I then attempt to delete sections of the template, but after I do a screen refresh the lines I just deleted are back and must be deleted again. The second delete is permanent. Is there some reason in DynaCADD 2D that a delete must be done twice. The delete function appears to work normally in all my other drawings. This final design is to be used as a border for a Genealogy chart. If I can get it to a point that I deem worthy, I will upload it to the Library. Cliff (Ashevillite) Joey, Is it possible to partial burns to generate a greyscale effect of the cut metal? Hmmmmmm. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 161 Sun Aug 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:52 EDT Sheldon, Shame-shame. A 4-meg STacy with an AdSpeed would also do fine, no? Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 162 Sun Aug 15, 1993 S.WINICK at 22:06 EDT Al, A 4-meg STacy with an AdSpeed would also be marginal for DynaCADD work. It would possibly be OK for very small, simple drawings only. Without the math coprocessor, it would be too slow for complex drawings. Besides... The STacy is also no longer available from Atari and hasn't been for quite some time now. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 163 Sun Aug 15, 1993 CBARRON at 23:44 EDT Al A stacy with 4 megs is not a notebook! But it would have the ram but speed would surely be lacking. I have created some 3d objects that take 15-30 secs to redraw on a TT using the fpu which is missing from the 68000. Dynacadd can be slow even on a TT under the correct conditions. I would seriously not recommend it for serious use on anything slower than a TT. [Who would buy this and not be serious?] Might work for occasional 'road' use, but surely would be no speed demon, even with a 32 mhz accelarator. A stacy , 32mhz 030/882 perhaps.... ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 164 Mon Aug 16, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:44 EDT Cliff, No partial burning, it goes all the way through.:-) If you had some real thick copper you can set it wrong so it just burns about half way but all the molten metal blows out the top about 10 feet in the air like a fountain. It's also hard on the tip to keep starting and stopping. You could create a greyscale effect using holes but it would take a while since the plasma has to stop and start on each hole it punctures. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 165 Mon Aug 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:12 EDT Sheldon, 1. Is there no way to pop a math co-proc onto an AdSpeed? (Or is that just the AdSpeed STe version?) 2. I know the STacy isn't available new, but I'll bet it's easier to get a STacy than a Book. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 166 Mon Aug 16, 1993 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 21:13 EDT REALM, As you probably expected, the file you sent me prints out beautifully on a PS printer. THANK-YOU, once again, for your time and effort. Looks like it's time to go shopping. Pat ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 167 Mon Aug 16, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 21:56 EDT Joey, Molten metal blowing 10 ft in the air, what a picture. The reason I asked was, I had seen some laser cut wood figures. The density and depth of cut produced some real nice textures. I was hopping the plasma cutter could do the same thing. (shows how much I know about the plasma cutter) Anyone, I finished the decorative border (done in Bspline not Bezier curves). I will try and take one more look at it and upload it this weekend. Does anyone have a preference as to upload (DXF, Fig, or just the standard DynaCADD format). Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 168 Mon Aug 16, 1993 M.SHANNON [Morgan] at 22:07 EDT Al, I'm going to recheck my DynaCADD operation under DATAlite again. Since 109N and SL seem to work OK now I have great expectations. Morgan ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 169 Mon Aug 16, 1993 S.WINICK at 23:05 EDT Al, It's easier, and more realistic, to buy a current model '486 notebook for on- the-road DynaCADD use than an out of production STacy or non-existant STBook, either of which must then be internally hacked to tweek the system to attemp to make it perform efficiently enough to handle the demands of a complex program such as DynaCADD. Like any tool, a computer system purchase should be made based on the intended needs and use. The TT030 is an excellent choice for a desktop DynaCADD application; the STBook or STacy really is not a viable choice for portable DynaCADD usage. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 170 Tue Aug 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:27 EDT Sheldon, My real point is that a '486 notebook is a PC, with all the pain and heartache of managing its fragmented and oddly incompatible memory structure. When it works right, it's great. Al ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 171 Tue Aug 17, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:29 EDT Cliff, Yeah, Blowing metal is great when your running for your life with little molten pieces going down your shirt collar and burning holes in your skin.:-) One of the things I've been meaning to try is installing a Router which would do wood cutting. I just can't figure out how to get control over the depth. The software that came with it works kind of like plotter... up or down. It would be possible to set the depth and mill with it though once you had the router attached. We looked into a laser but none of them in a decent price range would cut over a 1/4" thick. Those where in the $250K plus. They do cut stuff precisely though! On the border, I uploaded DynaCADD drawing files but I think it would be better to use DEF. Then anyone with any version of DynaCADD can download it and convert to what ever they need. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 172 Tue Aug 17, 1993 S.WINICK at 06:48 EDT Al, I agree that any MS-DOS machine is a royal pain to deal with compared to the easy to use operating system of the Atari platform. But regardless of how archaic and user unfriendly MS-DOS may be, the hardware is readily available and fully capable of running the necessary application software (DynaCADD), whereas Atari has chosen to not even offer a product to compete in the portable marketplace. We can't sell, and our customers cannot buy, a product that simply is not available. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 173 Tue Aug 17, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 19:48 EDT Joey, I know what you mean. MIG welding can set your pants on fire, when you pay too much attention to watching the flowing metal and not where the sparks are going. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 174 Wed Aug 18, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 06:00 EDT Cliff, Yeap... MIG does pretty good job on your cloths!:-) I cut a 4' test Cyclops out today and it came out pretty decent! Boss came up and asked what I was cutting out... opps... "Cyclops!" I said... he just walked off.:-) Probably should have exlained he wasn't paying me yet.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 175 Thu Aug 19, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 20:10 EDT Joey, The one thing that came to mind after reading your message 174 was the comment " Nut'in Honey " Hehe. Same effect I imagine. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 176 Thu Aug 19, 1993 L.CHANDLER [Linda] at 23:29 EDT Does Dynacadd run well on the Falcon? Should I get a Co-processor for the Falcon? What about using Screenblaster with Dynacadd on a 15" SVGA? (I just bought one, so I may have a lot of Questions soon. Thanks guys. Linda ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 177 Fri Aug 20, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:00 EDT Linda, The current version of DynaCADD doesn't run on the Falcon. Don't know what the current status is but maybe Dave or Nathan can help on that one. This is the first computer Atari's released it hasn't worked on. Even our ST version worked on the TT, which is less compatible, when it was first introduced. It also run fairly decent on graphic cards but I couldn't even get it to boot up on the Falcon. When it does work on the Falcon the Math Chip will pay for itself quickly.:- ) The speed increase was about 5-10 times if memory serves. Sorry I couldn't bring some better news. BTW, I have a Falcon so I know it doesn't work, I didn't read about it somewhere.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 179 Fri Aug 20, 1993 DITEK [David] at 13:46 EDT The latest version *is* Falcon compatible. All other problems including the hatching in the 2D version have also been looked after. We have sent out packages to those people who were having the problems for final testing and once we get the go ahead, will be shipping the new versions. Linda -- A math chip is _very_ important no matter what machine you run it on. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 180 Fri Aug 20, 1993 L.CHANDLER [Linda] at 21:08 EDT Thanks guys. Hurry up and get the Falcon version ready. My Falcon will be here Monday and I have just found a used NEC-3D for $250 Canadian. I'm trying to get all of my Architect colleagues to use Dynacadd. So far I've signed up four. Its sooooo much easier than AutoCadd. No slur intended. Nice is nice, but Beautiful is beautiful. Thanks again. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 181 Fri Aug 20, 1993 S.WINICK at 21:18 EDT David, If the 2D version is truly fixed, and now Falcon compatible, when do you anticipate that it will start shipping again. I've had it on backorder for quite some time already, and some eager customers patiently waiting. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 182 Fri Aug 20, 1993 L.CHANDLER [Linda] at 21:25 EDT Thanks Sheldon. My reasoning goes something like this: Since I can't get a notebook (read STBook) in the near future, the next easiest way to carry drawings around is to buy a Falcon and another monitor to keep on various jobsites. Unplug the thing and put it under my arm and go to the office or home or whatever and plug it in to a monitor there. I hope this will work. Others actually DO the drawing and I jus C carry them around. Although, I am getting pretty good at drawing shop drawings and cabinetry though. Linda. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 183 Fri Aug 20, 1993 M.PFEIFER [M.PFEIFER] at 21:48 EDT CBARRON, Thanks for the info on Dynacadd. It does sound really nice. As far as the MSDOS goes, I agree with you. If/when I buy an IBM machine, I would be running OS/2 on it. I like the idea of Multi-tasking. I have already purchased some games for the IBM that feature graphics far beyond any Atari game I have ever seen (X-Wing, Strike Commander). I plan on getting A-10 Tank Killer because that is my favorite fighter, but of course, nobody has written an Atari version. Since it will probably be about 2 years before I can even afford a new system, I will have plenty of time to see how Atari, IBM (Clones), and any other contenders are doing in the market place. REALM, I didn't know DynaCADD sold in DOS versions as well. I'll have to look into that. Thanks for the info on Cybersculpt and Phoenix, I'll check into them. Your metal cuttings sound interesting. Got any A-10 images??? Sheldon, Thanks for your input as well. I wasn't really trying to compare my 1985 ST with a 1993 486DX2. I was just saying that when I bought my ST, IBM graphics were miles behind. But today, I haven't seen any Atari software (Games mostly since my kids are about to enter their teens) that equals or exceeds IBM software. Like I said above, I bought X-Wing and Strike Commander for IBM and ran them on my neighbor's 486DX-33. They were the best looking simulators I have ever seen on a home computer. Being here in Nebraska seems to have me far away from anyplace where I could see software in action, but I don't think anyone is writing this level of games for Atari. If someone is, let me know and I would be extatic to check them out! Could I run Dynacadd on my Stacy 4/20? It is running at 8MHz, but I've been thinking of running it up to 16MHz. My main system is my old trusty 520ST (1-Meg Ram), 1 DSDD 3.5, and a Megafile-30. I'm running TOS 1.0. Anyone think I could sell it to the Smithsonian? Hehehe, just kidding. Mike ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 184 Fri Aug 20, 1993 DITEK [David] at 21:52 EDT Sheldon -- We've sent out about eight copies for testing. As soon as I hear that it is working under all hardware conditions it will be released and I will post a notice here. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 185 Fri Aug 20, 1993 J.LEMLEY [Jack] at 21:56 EDT Sheldon, I have a friend that does drafting and wants to get into CAD. He does a lot of work for a guy who is running AutoCad on a 486. Can my friend go with Dynacadd and a TT and interchange files with the AutoCad guy? What do you recommend? Thanks for your help :-) Jack ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 186 Fri Aug 20, 1993 S.WINICK at 23:22 EDT Jack, Most CADD programs can import and export industry standard DXF file formats, AutoCADD and DynaCADD included. DynaCADD and the TT030 make an awsome combination. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 187 Sat Aug 21, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 06:13 EDT Linda, I stand corrected on Falcon compatibility... thanks Dave!:-) Portability is one of the reasons I picked up a Falcon as well. It's a really nice machine. I think I'm one of the few people happy they made the first release one piece.:-) Mike, Don't have any A-10 images. Are you refering to your favorite tank killer again.:-) I can scan an image of something and auto trace it with SL then import that into DynaCADD. I haven't though as I want to be able to sell anything I set up and I'm not sure where the copyright laws come into play on altered scanned images. Plus I wouldn't want to use any one elses work without permission. Unless it was just for me personally.:-) If your interested in simulaters you might want to keep an eye on the Jaguar. I seriously doubt you'll find a PC with the same specs for $200. It looks really good on paper so far. Hopefully by next year they'll have some spify 3D simulators. I'd love to have a realtime 3D battletech game! Theres a topic around here somewhere if you have no idea what I'm talking about.:-) Jack, If your friend has never used CAD before, DynaCADD is the perfect program. I've taught several people to use it in just a day or two. Some of them still can't copy a disk but they can draft like crazy!:-) There is a limit to the DXF transfer though. I believe DynaCADD is compatible with version 10 and lower of AutoCAD's DXF files. I'm sure I'll get corrected if I'm wrong.:-) However this means AutoCAD v12 will load DynaCADD files OK but DynaCADD may have trouble loading v12 DXF files. If I remember correctly I think you can just avoid using certain things in AutoCADD and all is well. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 188 Sun Aug 22, 1993 M.SHANNON [Morgan] at 23:25 EDT David, Does that mean I have to get the fixed upgrade to my 2D too? Regards Morgan ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 189 Mon Aug 23, 1993 DITEK [David] at 15:00 EDT Morgan -- The easiest way to test if the version you have has the problem is to attempt to hatch a small area. If the hatching works, then there is no problems, otherwise you will have to be upgraded when we release the latest. ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 190 Tue Aug 24, 1993 M.PFEIFER [M.PFEIFER] at 23:36 EDT Joey, No A-10s, bummer! Oh well, it still sounds like something neat to have! Jaguar is the new Atari game machine (Great, Great, Great grandson of the 2600) I take it? I won't buy another machine for just games. I learned my lesson with Intellivision and Game Boy. I want games on my main computer. I also want something I can see with the Viewsonic 17" monitor I'm getting. Mike ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 191 Wed Aug 25, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:42 EDT Mike, Jaguar is not just another game machine.:-) Check out the AEO file, I'm sure you'll be interested if you like realtime texture mapped 3D simulators in 32bit color and 16 bit sterio sound. Not that I've seen it but thats what the specs say. Let me know how your monitor works, I almost bought one. DynaCADD woudl be great! <-(Obvious topic tie in attempt) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 192 Wed Aug 25, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 20:02 EDT Joey, We just took pocession of your Mitsubishi (sp?). It arrived with little in the tank so Sheldon and I took it for a test drive and filled it up for you before we ship on to you. One thing though, we would like you to send us your CyRel board so we can get the higher res on the dash board display. Handles real nice on the corners. Cliff (Ashevillite) omputer Studio ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 193 Wed Aug 25, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan @ DMC] at 21:43 EDT Buy your own Cyrel Sunrise, Cliff. ;-) Nathan ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 194 Thu Aug 26, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 06:31 EDT Thanks Nathan!:-) Cliff, I can't spell it either.:-) Can't you pull one of those Screen Blasters out of the box and give it try on the Falcon while your test driving? BTW, Don't leave your McDonalds bags in it this time.:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 195 Thu Aug 26, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 19:54 EDT Nathan, I'm saving, I'm saving. Joey, Unfortunately, we are out of Screen Blasters and Falcons again. (More to arrive this week). If I had read this message, I would of postponed UPSing your monitor today. Maybe I can get UPS to return it so I can play some more? :-) Cliff (Ashevillite) Computer Studio ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 196 Fri Aug 27, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:30 EDT Cliff, Send me a free Screen Blaster and I'll try it for you!:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 197 Fri Aug 27, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 20:54 EDT Joey, No problem. Just pay the shipping ($1,000) :-) Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 198 Sun Aug 29, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 00:14 EDT Cliff,:-) ------------ Category 7, Topic 7 Message 199 Thu Sep 02, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 09:30 EDT Joey, How long are you going to keep us in suspense about the new monitor. Weeelllllllll? When you get a chance, would you mind checking out the border I uploaded, and give me any suggestions. I plan on doing some more. I know I'm a little wierd using DynaCADD as an alternate DTP package. Cliff (Ashevillite) Computer Studio ------------