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==========================================================================
 ************
Topic 3         Sun Oct 25, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 20:11 EST
Sub: Diamond Edge

Disk Diagnostics, Repair, Optimization, Data Recovery
200 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 1         Wed Jun 09, 1993
F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK]          at 02:20 EDT

Bob,

I sent E-Mail to you on upgrade problem but not sure you will get it as all of
sudden Aladdin got flaky and I coundn't read the screen.

The upgrade seems to have taken as the new dialog box in 'partition' for boot
sectors is there and Desk Info says 'v1.10' but got message during validation
process reads "ERROR VALIDATING UPGRADE - 0X10a6 - PLEASE CONTACT OREGON
RESEARCH".  The upgrade was done to a copy of my backup floppy copied to the
Hard Disk (for purpose of space).

Gonna' see if this message gets out.

                               Regards,
                                         Frank
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 2         Wed Jun 09, 1993
P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF]          at 21:58 EDT

FRANK,
  I had the same problem and called Bob. The first thing he asked me was
whether I had "squished" DE with DC Squish. I had and after unsquishing DE,
the patch worked perfectly.
    paul
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 3         Wed Jun 09, 1993
G.GRAHAM9 [Glenn]            at 22:35 EDT

  The patch worked fine for me.  Do you mean, Bob, that the word to be  typed
is different in each run of the program?  What a great idea! This program has
been well worth the price for the work it does.  I guess it's high time I sent
this registration card (dated 12/30/92) I filled out long ago.  I'm notorious
for bying software and never mailing this stuff.  I truly hate using the
Canadian mail service.

  I only had 1 small problem soon after bying it at Compuworld here in
Toronto.  I lost my entire Utilities directory during a much needed defrag.
Lucky I had backups of all of it due to Seagate sticktion problems in my
Megafile 60. I attribute the loss to running it with a software cache.  I
should have known better as I already knew that's not recommended on I*M
machines either.  I now only use TosFix, FoldrXXX and Warp9.  No more problems
using Edge that way.  Well I guess I've got to splurge on stamps instead of
software for a while.

 About sticktion (if that's how we spell it) I find if I ALWAYS park the HD at
every shutdown, I rarely have a problem anymore.  Yes, the reg. for DBII will
be mailed as well _2 birds with 1 stamp_

 <Glenn>
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 4         Wed Jun 09, 1993
OUTRIDER [Terry]             at 23:41 EDT

Glenn,

Have you considered just leaving your hard drive on?  Have you seen the
commercial where they say the worst thing you can do to your car is to start
it?  Well, that's an understatement when talking about hard drives.  It takes
a LOT of torque to get a hard drive up to speed.  If you're shutting it down
every day, you're likely shortening its life.  And if you leave it on all the
time, no more stiction problem!  :^)

     __
     /erry .\\ay

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 5         Thu Jun 10, 1993
F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK]          at 02:22 EDT

Bob, Paul,

Paul, thanks for the info, however I don't use any packer or squishers etc..
just don't trust em' (G). I got it tho.

Bob, I tried 4 times before I went to a complete bare system and when I did I
discoverd that this patch was adding a DMIRROR to my auto folder because the
one that was there I do not use anymore and use from the desktop once a week
when I'm backing, checkin', optimizien', and praying. After removing the PRX
and the new PRG from the AUTO folder the upgrade worked. Now all I have to do
is copy over to my regular EDGE folder. Nothing in the Doc's about the DMIRROR
in the Auto folder being added during upgrade.

                               Regards,
                                        Frank
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 6         Thu Jun 10, 1993
B.AEIN [B Man]               at 03:34 EDT

A quick note For Updating Diamond Edge For Squish Users

Unsquish Diamond Edge before trying to update!!!  It won't update otherwise.

It took me 2 trys to figuare that one out ;)

Bman
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 7         Thu Jun 10, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 07:55 EDT

I've been leaving my HDs on lately, but the last few days we've had
thunderstorms and TS warnings, so I've shut down at those times. I don't think
it would be good for the system to go on and off everytime the power flickers.

A squisher shouldn't cause any risk if you don't squish your only copy of a
program. You can always unsquish or copy in a good copy of the program from
your original.

Ken Van Dellen d8^)
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 8         Thu Jun 10, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 19:52 EST

 >>  A squisher shouldn't cause any risk if you don't squish your     <<
  >>only copy of a  program. You can always unsquish or copy in a good <<
  >>copy of the program from  your original.                           <<
   I haven't any experience with Diamond Edge, being squished, but
 there ARE some programs (GFA Basic 3.5 is one) that just DON'T like
 being compressed.  Beats me why, but it introduces various
 'strangenesses' into the functions.  I would think that leaving Edge
 unsquished would be something to consider, since that is about the
 LAST type program you want problems of any kind with.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 9         Thu Jun 10, 1993
C.ALLEN17 [Cliff]            at 22:33 EDT

The update work flawlessly on my system. Thanks ORA.TECH

Ken Van Dellen d8^
   After purchasing an American Power UPS, I do not find a need to turn off my
system even during a t-storm.

Cliff (Ashevillite)


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 10        Thu Jun 10, 1993
J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST]    at 23:49 EDT

Bob,

My upgrade also contained the error message to contact you - but it wrote a
version 1.10 to my drive that _seems_ to work perfectly.  The 1.03 copy was
not squished (but I remember getting an error message when I upgraded _that_
verision too!)  I figured it was a quirk in the upgrade software - the patch
program should _NEVER_ write a seemingly working copy of the program if it
_actually_ detected some problem - and used 1.03 for months without any
problem.

Is this something I should be worried about and is there any way I can tell if
my 1.10 version is 'good' or not?

 John E. Gniewkowski
 Editor, GEnieLamp ST
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 11        Fri Jun 11, 1993
F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK]          at 00:30 EDT

To all

If you are getting an error message on the update of DE during the validation
process I found that if you remove the DMIRROR.PRX or PRG from the AUTO folder
it ran just fine and even installed a new DMIRROR.PRG in the said AUTO folder.

This may work on your systems as well - Take a chance.

Using TT with 3.06 - no squishes or compressions goodies being used.

                             Frank
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 12        Sat Jun 12, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 07:03 EDT

Bob, thanks for the update - works great!

Ron, I've always had Edge Squished with no problems.  I wouldn't pack Mirror
though.

Ken, ditto what Cliff said about the American Power UPS.  As Sheldon Winick
told me, it's the most cost-effective insurance you can get for your computer
system.

  gnox

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 13        Sat Jun 12, 1993
EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff]     at 14:04 EDT

 >Regarding the importance of upgrading, it is extremely
 >important. It is always important to be using the most
 >version of all you software.

I guess then I should have been using the buggy version of WordPerfect they
issued that wouldn't run on TTs? Or the version 6 of the ICD booter software
that causes problems with various and sundry software?

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is good advice. Just remember that if you
have outdated versions of software in your system and you upgrade one part,
some of the outdated parts may break.

 |) |
 |)O|)
 Robert Goff
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 14        Sun Jun 13, 1993
M.SHANNON                    at 01:40 EDT

Bob, Hi! I just used the patch on my 1.04 to goto 1.10 (using ICD ver 6.0.7)
and after I ran the patch I got a hex-code-note saying I had a problem.

Well, I looked into my folder and found that the .PRG and .RSC files had
changed sizes and the MIRROR.PRG was bytes smaller... SO I booted the new file
and WHALLAH! Version 1.10 at my command.

Anyway I'm a happy user and wanted to pass this on to you cause I don't have a
clue as to why I go a NO-GO on the verify pass even tho the upgrade to effect.

Also, since reading your disclosure on that other file compression program I'd
like to trade it in on DATALITE. Is it available and can I get a discount for
sending you my master disk for that "other" program? Can you see your way
clear to twist my disk?

Hopefully
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 15        Sun Jun 13, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 05:59 EDT

M.SHANNON,

When you refer to a "disclosure on that other file compression program", are
you thinking of the next-to-last paragraph in the DE 1.10 README file?
There's a small mistake in the second sentence, where the word "normally"
should really be "otherwise."  If on the other hand you have some new
information, perhaps you could share the secret with fellow owners of the
"other file compression program" by posting it in Cat 2 Top 12?

Bob,

Speaking of the DE 1.10 README file, can you clarify that last paragraph of it
a little?  It seems to say that copy/backup programs which use a read-to-EOF
method instead of a filesize-checking method can produce copies that will pass
DE's validation test even though they have been corrupted.  Can you describe
an actual scenario where this would happen?  How likely is it to happen?
(More likely than a sector going bad, for instance?)  If it's not a very rare
occurrence, and there's no way to prevent (or detect) it, it's hard to see why
Atari would consider the read-to-EOF method legal.  (It's not condidered
_il_legal, is it?)

Sorry if I'm confused, but maybe I'm not the only one!

  gnox




 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 16        Sun Jun 13, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 15:39 EDT

gnox,

I'll have to ask Sheldon about it.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 17        Sun Jun 13, 1993
S.FARWIG [STAN]              at 17:51 EDT

I downloaded the patch for 1.03 to 1.10 last night and ran into problems on my
FALCON.

In following the instructions for creating a new emergency disk:

Running DE from the floppy resulted in
        A. "Save disk info" brought up two prompts on the last partition,
                1. FAT does not match disk size, run Medic etc.
                2. Boot sector not recognized (or something like that).
          Medic reported no problems found.
          Running DE from the HD copied the last partition fine onto
          the foppy.
        B. running the "Save SCSI info" from both the floppy and the
           HD caused the system to freeze after choosing the drives
           and clicking on the file selector.

What have I done wrong this time?
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 18        Sun Jun 13, 1993
R.MORROW10 [Bob M.]          at 18:09 EDT

I just upgraded my DE v1.03 to 1.10 and got a failure notice when I was
running the upgrade program.  (code 0x7993)  However, when I ran DE after
that, it indicated that it was v1.10 and works fine.  After running the patch
program, what version should Diamond Mirror be? (mine says v1.1)  Or is it not
affected?
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 19        Sun Jun 13, 1993
OUTRIDER [Terry]             at 20:02 EDT

Bob,

After your upgrade, Diamond Edge should be a v1.10 (it was previously v1.03 or
v1.04) and Diamond Mirror should be a v1.1 (it was previously v1.0), so it
looks like you met success, despite your failure messages.

     __
     /erry .\\ay

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 20        Sun Jun 13, 1993
D.CHARTER [Duane]            at 22:22 EDT

Bob,

 Just thought I would let you know that I was able to upgrade to version 1.10
with no problem.  I actually had to patch from 1.02 ? to
 1.03 and then to 1.10.  I had to put everything in the correct directory and
do the update...no problems at all.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 21        Sun Jun 13, 1993
M.SHANNON                    at 22:50 EDT

gnox yes I am and I am very interested as a result in this LITE idea. You?
Morgan

Terry, Thanks for the info. I was wondering my own self... (sigh of relief)
Morgan
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 22        Sun Jun 13, 1993
A.MASON4 [Anna]              at 22:59 EDT

Bob,

Thanks for uploading v1.10 of DE.  I installed it today without any problems.

Anna  ;-)

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 23        Tue Jun 15, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 06:59 EDT

Bob,

I've had trouble doing the upgrade from v1.03 to v1.10. When I run DEPATCH, I
get an info screen that calls for V103.RSC, but my upgrade pack has V110.RSC,
which the README file calls for. Should I rename it?

When I first tried to do the upgrade, I got error 0xaac2. I copied a good copy
of everything into my folder and tried again several times. Now it has trouble
renaming the .RSC file (I think). Turning DD on or off makes no difference.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 24        Tue Jun 15, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 07:44 EDT

Morgan,

Yes, I'm interested in DataLite and am looking forward to seeing some user
reports on it.  However I don't think it was Bob's intention in the README
file to criticize a competitor's product - (right, Bob?) He was just reminding
Data Diet owners of the crucial parameter setting which is explained on p.25
of the original DD manual.  DD/DE users can easily mess up their files if they
ignore that parameter, but will not have problems if they set it properly or
use the current version's default setting.

  gnox

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 25        Tue Jun 15, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 15:33 EDT

John - If you received a validation error message, then the patched file does
not calculate to the correct CRC.  I.E. although it may appear to perform
correctly the patched file is not exactly what it should be. There are many
reasons that th patch could fail to validate, it only takes a single bit
fliped by DMA noise to do it. Try patching another backup copy, if it fails
again, return your disk for complimentry upgrade.

M.SHANNON, Bob Morrow - See above.  Do not use a patched file that failed the
validation. even though it appears to function normally. Diamond Mirror will
be V1.1 after the patch.

One note on upgradeing, if you have DMIRROR.PRG in you auto folder set to read-
only status, then the patch will fail.

gnox - The read-to-EOF file is a common method uses for ages to read files.
There is nothing wrong with that practice by normal programs where absolute
data integrity is not vital. However, in programs such as DB2 or DE whose job
it is to protect the integrity of the data and detect situations where that
integrity is comprimised, it is not a suitable method. In the presence of disk
corruption, files can be inappropriately truncated in the FAT table. Read-to-
EOF programs will read in these files happily and report no errors even though
they didn;t get all of the file.  Because of the requirement for absolute data
integrity, DB2 and DE require the knowledge of the files actual size so that
it can validate that all of the file was succesfully read.

If a EDGE of DB2 validation file was created on the original ucorrupted copy,
then even cirrupted copies generated by other file copy programs from
truncated fils would be identified as corrupted during a validation.

Stan - What TOS version are your running on your Falcon? Do you have an
internal IDE drive??

Best regards,

Bob@ORA




 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 26        Tue Jun 15, 1993
OUTRIDER [Terry]             at 21:53 EDT

Bob,

Could changing the status of a flag (such as the fastload bit) cause the CRC
check to fail?  That could explain the problems that some people are having,
especially since the patch seems to be successful, save for the error message.

     __
     /erry .\\ay

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 27        Tue Jun 15, 1993
M.RIVMAN1 [MATT]             at 22:45 EDT

Ken Van-

If I remember correctly, both the PRG and RSC files have to be in the
directory with the upgrade patch files for it to work.  During the patching,
these old files will be renamed V103.PRG and V103.RSC respectively,
automatically.  You can then archive them or delete them at your whim.


Matt
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 28        Tue Jun 15, 1993
S.FARWIG [STAN]              at 23:23 EDT

Bob: Thanks for your reply.

The TOS is 4.04 and the Falcon does have the 80m IDE drive...why an IDE I have
no idea...cheaper?

If I remember rightly, I did the patch on my Mega.

One other happening...I had a badly fragmented driver, so I backed it up and
did an optimization. The optimization seems to have gone well (I'm doing this
from that drive), but during the optimization horizontal portions of the
screen broke up in strange multi-colored patterns (80/256 resolution).

All help appreciated                   Stan

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 29        Tue Jun 15, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 23:31 EDT

Bob,

I'll try the patch again with a fresh copy of Mirror. Maybe I botched that up
when the first try didn't work, and I then replaced only EDGE.PRG and
EDGE.RSC, but not MIRROR.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 30        Wed Jun 16, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 00:43 EDT

Excellent point Terry, if the Fastload bit or TTmemory bit was changed from
the original that would definately cause the CRC on the patch to fail.



 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 31        Wed Jun 16, 1993
M.SHANNON                    at 01:55 EDT

gnox, I'm not sure I got that (clarified) to I have to turn DD OFF before
optimizing with DE or can I optimize without worry using DE? Is that crucial
parameter D_ized or Original. Am I asking the wrong person on the wrong TOP?
Should this be confined to E-MAIL? Morgan


Bob, OK you've got my attention, when can I send you my money? Morgan
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 33        Wed Jun 16, 1993
R.MORROW10 [Bob M.]          at 21:35 EDT

Bob@ORA:

I got the patch to run on my backup.  Speaking of backups, doesn't Diamond
Mirror kind of make Diamond Back unnecessary?
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 34        Thu Jun 17, 1993
M.SHANNON                    at 02:07 EDT

Bob, Will forward (+$10.00 for UPGRADE + S&H) and my original disk. Tried the
patch on both my ST's still no-go. I got a printout during the first attempt
(from mt DeskJet 500+) I'll send it along as well as the Hex coded message of
failure as well. Please return ASAP. Thanks Morgan PS-Is DATALITE or SUPERBASE
anywhere near release as yet?
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 35        Thu Jun 17, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 03:54 EDT

M.SHANNON - We recommend turning Data Diet off during disk optimization(as
well as anything else that may interfere with disk related operations). After
Optimization you can turn it back on again.

Our address is :

Oregon Research Associates 16200 SW Pacific Hwy Suite 162 Tigard, OR 97224


R.MORROW10 - Big negative there Bob.  THERE IS NO SUBSTITUE FOR A VALID
UPTODATE BACKUP.  Diamond Mirror certainly facilitates the recovery of deleted
files and restoration of damaged disks, but in no way is a replacement for the
best possible disk protection: Backups.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA

P.S. DL2 should be shipping by the KC Show.(I hope)
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 36        Thu Jun 17, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 05:59 EDT

Bob,

 > If an EDGE or DB2 validation file was created on the original
 > ucorrupted copy, then even corrupted copies generated by other file
 > copy programs from truncated files would be identified as corrupted
 > during a validation.  [ typos edited ;) ]

Ah, OK - that's the point that wasn't clear to me from the README. Now I
understand.

Morgan,

 > Am I asking the wrong person on the wrong TOP?

Well, wrong Top anyway.  :)  DD questions should go to Cat 2 Top 12, as I
mentioned before.  But Bob _has_ answered your question already.

By the way, you should take a moment to use GEnie's Name command so your name
or handle always appears in the header of your messages. It helps to make
things friendlier.

  gnox


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 37        Thu Jun 17, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 08:00 EDT

Hmmm. Maybe it's the Fastload bit thing that's causing my problem. I took CH's
advice and turned it off. I'll try that.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 38        Thu Jun 17, 1993
M.SQUIRE [Mike]              at 21:07 EST

Bob M.,

    >> I got the patch to run on my backup.  Speaking of backups,
    >> doesn't Diamond  Mirror kind of make Diamond Back
    >> unnecessary?

 Not at all.  I recently had a problem where, somehow, the automatic
 backup routine in Word Perfect totally distroyed both my FATs on my
 D:\ partition.  At first, I tried to use Diamond Edge to recover the
 data, but there was just too much damage.  Fortunately, I had a
 Diamond Back-up that was only a week ago so I was able to wipe my D:\
 partition totally clean and restore all of the original data back
 from my backup floppies.  It _pays_ to use Diamond Back.

 ... Mike Squire


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 39        Fri Jun 18, 1993
R.PILATO [bob]               at 23:11 EDT

Bob,

After using Mirror as prompted, I ended up with the file LOST0001 DAT which
was over 9K. But it seems that I haven't lost any files on the drive that was
mirrored and defragmented. Before using Mirror, I saw that I had about 4,000
bad clusters. I'm using TOS 1.05 on a MSTe4. Would you please explain what's
going on?

Thanks

bob pilato

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 40        Fri Jun 18, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 23:23 EST

Mike,
    It also pays NOT to use the WordPerfect timed backup, as you
 noticed.  The ST just doesn't like the way WP does its timed backups,
 and might have changed the path between the backups, causing
 problems.  If you want to save, do it manually, there is no report of
 that causing problems.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 42        Sat Jun 19, 1993
A.B.SMITH [Barry]            at 05:59 EDT

Bob-
       Could you give me a quick run down of what files I am allowed to delete
after running your DE v.1.10 upgrade.  I'm getting quite a collection of
*.DAT, *.RSC, VE ***.PRG, and *PATCH,PRG files from your various and much
appreciated upgrades and am chicken to delete them.  Maybe a list of what
should remain in my DE or DB folder would  be simpler.  Thanks.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 44        Sat Jun 19, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 14:07 EDT

I was trying to upgrade my Edge from 1.00 to 1.02 (thebn to 1.03 and finally
to 1.10), and I got a:

           error validating upgrade
           0x6441
           please try again

Looking through my archives, I found others had this problem, but I could not
find what the resolution was, except the fact that even though my 1.02 copy
works fine, i tmay not be correctly upgraded.  My Edge is not Squished in any
way, I have tried turning DataDiet off, turning Adspeed off, and turning my
cahce off.  Nothing helped. Suggestions?  The 1.02 copy works fine, but from
the past notes, my upgrade copy shouldn't be trusted as a valid upgrade?
Also, the program says 1.02 also.

Todd

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 46        Sun Jun 20, 1993
T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart]       at 03:35 EDT

Bob Morrow -

Diamond Mirror doesn't even come close to making Diamond Back unneccessary!
It merely "mirrors" the FAT and Directories.  If a sector in the middle of the
file goes bad, there's nothing DE can do to save it -- that sector's toast.  A
backed up file can be restored however.  Also, if your hard disk blows up
completely (god forbid) then DM is useless to you.

No, Diamond Edge _only_ makes undeleting files more feasible, and protects
against corrupted FATs.  It is not intended to (and, indeed, cannot) replace a
backup.

- T.J.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 47        Sun Jun 20, 1993
R.MORROW10 [Bob M.]          at 19:55 EDT

Todd-

Try upgrading your backup.  If not that, then do the master copy. That's what
I had to do and the backup upgraded just fine.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 48        Sun Jun 20, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 20:04 EDT

I tried turning the fastbit on. That didn't work. I still get the "Error
renaming EDGE.PRG" message I'd been getting. Then, on a hunch, I moved
V103.PRG and .RSC out of the path, and it worked! Almost. It said the upgrade
was complete (validated). The new Mirror works. I get a message that EDGE
can't find EDGE.RSC. It's there, but it doesn't have the current date and it's
a lot smaller than the old one.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 49        Sun Jun 20, 1993
J.WILSON103 [John]           at 22:51 EDT

Bob,

Are you going to be in KC?  If so, can I upgrade my Diamond Edge there if I
bring the original?  I have 'not' been successful upgrading to 1.10.

John
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 51        Mon Jun 21, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 21:30 EDT

Bob - You don't necessarily have to have "lost" any files for lost clusters to
be create.  Sometimes during a file deletion process the FAT tabel doesn;t get
correctly cleared.  This will create a number of allocated clusters(i.e. with
entries in the FAT table) that have no link to any file in the directory tree
structure i.e. you have lsot clusters. even though you haven;t actually "lost"
anything.  In this case the LSOTCLUSTER.DAT file would contain th e contents
of the file that was improperly deleted.

Barry - All you need after the patch is EDGE.PRG EDGE.RSC and DMIRROR.PRG

Todd - Since you are having difficulty patching to 1.02 go ahead and send you
disk in for upgradeing

Ken - dito

John - Yes we will be in KC next weekend.  See you there. Best regards,

Bob@ORA


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 52        Mon Jun 21, 1993
R.PILATO [bob]               at 23:57 EDT

Bob,

I undeleted a small file and ended up with a folder full of files and folders,
all of which are in symbols totalling a whopping 1,219,308,498 bytes.  If I
try drag these files to the trashcan, I get an illegal message. As far as I
can see, I haven't lost any files, and if I did, I have backups. Does this
mean I will need to zero this partition, or do I ignore the faulty folder
since the enormous byte size cannot be actual?

Thanks,

bob pilato

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 54        Tue Jun 22, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 08:36 EDT

Okay, Bob, I'll send my disk.  Thanks.  I'm just lazy at upgrading!

Todd

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 55        Tue Jun 22, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 20:22 EDT

Bob - No need to zero your disk, you need to run disk medic to clear up the
disk corruption.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 61        Sun Jul 11, 1993
L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine]     at 03:25 EDT


        Well I finally opened up my Diamond Edge box. (I bought it a month
ago, but I have so busy, that I had not had time to get it). It seems great!!
I tried it on my STE and optimized the hard drive on it (and boy did it _need_
it).

        My question is this, in the READ.ME file on the disk, it says to make
sure I use the latest HDX for the TT030. My TT has version 4.02 on it. I
realize that Atari recently released version 5.x for the Falcon. Will have to
upgrade to the new version in order to use Diamond Edge? (I do not recall the
version # of Diamond Edge I have, but I got it at the CT AtariFest last month
at the Oregon Research table, so I believe it the latest). So can I use
Diamond Edge on my TT030 with HDX 4.02 ???

        Thanks.

                                --Lou T.--
                Written: Sunday, July 11, 1993 03:17 a.m. EDT

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 62        Sun Jul 11, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 22:35 EDT

Bob,

Have you received my DE disk? I sent it in a while ago, but maybe not as long
as it seems.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 63        Tue Jul 13, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 23:11 EDT

The version of ICD's software is very critical on TT's with devices on the
ACSI port.  The version of HDX is not so critical, although you should be
running version 6.

Argh.. Ken havn;t you gotten it back yet??  I'm sure we processed that ages
ago.  I'll check.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 64        Wed Jul 14, 1993
L.TRAPANI [Lou @Machine]     at 02:18 EDT

  Bob,

 >The version of ICD's software is very critical on TT's with devices on the
 >ACSI port.  The version of HDX is not so critical, although you should be
 >running version 6.

        Okay, I do not use any ICD software/hardware on my TT030 system. I am
using Atari's HDX v4.02. I am not aware of a version 6 though. Unless I am
mistaken, I thought the latest version of Atari HDX is version 5.03.

        Now I thought I read someplace in order to switch to HDX 5.03 you have
to format your hard drive. That is why I am asking if Diamond Edge is okay to
use with HDX 4.02, this way it will save me the hassle of reformatting. But I
rather not take chances, if 5.03 is worth it, I will do what it takes to
install it. And if there is version 6 of HDX, where can I find it?

        Thanks again.

                                --Lou T.--
                Written: Wednesday, July 14, 1993 02:04 a.m. EDT

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 67        Sat Jul 17, 1993
C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON]        at 23:47 EDT

I have a problem & I'm wondering if Diamond Edge will help. I have an Insite
Floptical drive hooked to my STe with the Link. I'm using the latest ICD
software. One of my floptical disks has some damaged files & folders. The
damaged folder is the most distressing. When I double click on it to open it,
the floptical churns for a while. Then in the right hand corner the words
"disk change" flash. Then it stops flashing. Meanwhile the floptical is still
churning away. After a little while the flashing "disk change" words appear
again. This cycle continues & doesn't stop. I downloaded the Diamond Edge
demo. I played around with it & got the following message: DOS error #-14,
Reading FAT sectors, Location 6713. I hit the continue button. I got the same
message except it was Location 3. Are the files in that folder repairable
and/or retrievable? Will Diamond Edge do the trick?

                 Carson
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 69        Sun Jul 18, 1993
R.PILATO [bob]               at 16:07 EDT

Bob,

I can't make sense out of the instructions in the patch program as the message
runs off the screen, and the info that I can read does not seem to correspond
to the manual. I have version 1.03

Thanks, bob pilato
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 70        Tue Jul 20, 1993
R.ALBRIGHT7 [Robb]           at 15:02 EDT

Careson,

I am not familiar with the Insite drives, but chances are that if the Demo
of DE found the error, then the full version, i.e. Disk Medic, should be  able
to fix it.  It sounds like your FAT tables could be corrupt.  Pick up DE and
give it a shot, if you can't recover that particular folder, at least it will
protect you in the future (with Diamond Mirror).  Please reply if you need
additional infor.

Robb @ ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 71        Tue Jul 20, 1993
R.PILATO [bob]               at 23:11 EDT

Bob,

I had no luck with the latest patch, because some of the instructions in the
dialogue box run off the screen. Please advise, Thanks.

bob pilato
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 72        Wed Jul 21, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 21:23 EDT

Bob - Send in you org disk and we'll send th update right back.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 73        Mon Jul 26, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           at 23:59 EDT

I am getting a warning during my optimization of disk H;

        Your Output Device is not receiving data.


It is an infrequent warning but only occurs while in DE. Also, ends up in
rebooting the computer and losing files.

Sometimes it turns into DOS error #1 Reading HD
                                      Location 1113


WHat's going on?

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 74        Tue Jul 27, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 02:29 EDT

Brian - I had that with Diamond Back 2 on a floppy disk.  You know what
Diamond Edge showed me?  Before that floppy became complete toast (DE could do
nothing more with it as the FAT area had a bad sector), it started at 3 bad
clusters, and was up to 29 before the disk became complete toast.  A check of
bad sectors (using a read-write-read method) showed about 25% of the disk was
bad.

Could be completely different for your HD, and NO I am not ORA, but I would
suggest running a bad sector test on H using the read-write-read method and
see what it says.  You CAN tell DE to mark those clusters as non-usable in the
FAT (ORA correct me here please) and then you can use the HD H as usual, but
will decrease in size as the number of bad clusters goes up.

This is all based on experience with bad floppies and DE.  I have also found
just having it read sectors to find bad ones doesn't work good at all.  If you
want to be sure, use the read-write-read.  With read only, DE found 3 bad
clsuters on the floppy.  With read-write-read, as I said, it went to 29.  And
NEITHER cause data loss, except on bad cluster spots, of course.

Hope this helps

Todd

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 75        Tue Jul 27, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           at 05:36 EDT

Thanks Todd. Actually, I ran rwr about two months ago, when this began. I got
four bad custers which are physical in nature. The rest is suppose to be OK. I
have done rwr since without any problem. I am glad I had a recent b/u of the
drive; otherwise 7 mrgs out the window. Brian
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 76        Tue Jul 27, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 18:39 EDT

  I downloaded the file to upgrade to version 1.10, but couldn't find a file
called V103.RSC which was supposed to be on the directory with the other
stuff. I tried it anyway but it said "Couldn't rename files" or something like
that. What do I do?
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 77        Tue Jul 27, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 22:07 EDT

Bob,

I was running Edge earlier and noticed when I tried to optimize C it would do
evetyhing, but right when it would say "working" it would lock up.

Now, I rebooted with nothing on my system off of floppy, loaded ICDBOOT.PRG
off floppy, and then loaded Edge from floppy, to make sure it wasn't a file on
my HD casuing the problem.  NO FILE was loaded from the HD.

Now, when I ran Edge, and optimized C, when it got to the point of saying
"working", I would get a:

    DOS error #-8
    Writing hard disk
    Location 1114

What is this?  I can not get this to come up unless I take verything out of my
system.  it then says retry or continue.  retry does nothing but bring the
window back up.  Continue just makes the computer lock up.  D does the same
exact thing, same numbers, same everything.

What is this!?

Todd

Edge finds no bad clusters.  Ran a read-write-read.  Thought I would inlcude
that info in case it matters.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 78        Tue Jul 27, 1993
J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er]  at 23:59 EDT

  Todd,

Did you try running Clean-Up?.

                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                ^^^^    JSW    ^^^^
                ^^^^   ST'er   ^^^^
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Tuesday, July 27, 1993 - 11:54:38 pm
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 79        Wed Jul 28, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           at 00:13 EDT

I have done both a rwr (5 passes) and two passes of a wr (destructive of
course) on the HD "H". I had my MSTE cache off from the control panel. Each
time I get nine bad clusters. Each time the same nine are fixed. Each time
they are indicated bad and fixed again. Thank goodness for DB!

~~~~Brian ... Written on Wednesday 28 July 1993 at 01:11 a.m. ADT
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 80        Wed Jul 28, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 00:56 EDT

Jeff,

Clean up showed nothing wrong.  Edge shows nothing wrong.  Edge works fine
till I try and optimize something.  And this is the copy off my floppy disk.
Same as the one on the HD.

Todd

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 81        Wed Jul 28, 1993
MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp]        at 01:21 EDT

Todd,

error -8 is "Sector not found."  Hmmmm.


        Mike Allen

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 82        Wed Jul 28, 1993
C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --]     at 06:18 EDT

Brian,

        I got the "Output device not receiving data" message once... Five
minutes later my hard drive's power supply died!  It may be possible that
yours is getting flaky - mine was about 4 years old at the time, and it was an
original Atari SH205, in which I had replaced the original Seagate ST225 20meg
drive mechanism with a refurbished ST251-1 40meg mech... not the most reliable
drives in the world... It may be worth having your power supply tested, if
nothing else works.

        Regarding the "DOS error...Location 1113", I had that happen, too -
but I'm sure it was totally unrelated to the power supply problem.  The alert
used to come up every time the optimization routine hit the bad clusters on my
drive (the Seagates had quite a few), even though I had used DE to mark the
bad clusters, and they never caused ay problems with any other programs.  I
was always able to get past them, though - after a tedious cycle of hitting
return and clicking on alert-box buttons, DE would suddenly just continue on
with the optimization.  Apparently, from what Bob said in earlier message here
when I inquired about it, the "Location 1113" does not refer to any physical
location on the HD - it is actually the section of the optimize routine's code
that is being affected by the disk error - or something like that (Bob?)...
        Anyway, since the 1.10 upgrade, I haven't had that error occur again
even ONCE!  THANKS, BOB!!!  The program just does it's thing and avoids the
bad clusters, as it should - a couple of times, I swear I spent 10 minutes
hittig "retry", "cancel", and "continue" in various dialog boxes before the
program would get past the errors!

-- Chuck --

Oh, yeah, so if you haven't upgraded to v1.10, TRY THAT FIRST!(8^})...

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 83        Wed Jul 28, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 08:06 EDT

I have Edge 1.10.  The location was 1114, not 1113.

Sector not found?  I don't like this.  Can't fidn anything bad on my HD
though.  Any suggestions?  I will also wait for Bob to answer.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 84        Wed Jul 28, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 12:28 EDT

"Your Output device is not receiveing DATA" is a Operating System message that
implies that the hard disk controller is not responding to a command.  I.E. A
read or write was requested and the hard disk simply never responded.  Could
be power supply, could be loose cables could be DMA noise, definately hardware
related.

Flakes - Send in you disk for upgrade if you couldn;t succesfully complete the
patch.


You are correct Todd when bad sectors are mapped as bad, they become unusable
and the effective disk capacity is reduced.  The different kinds of mapping
algorithms are provided because some are better at finding certain kinds of
disk corruption than others.

A DOS error #8 is a sector not found, this is a VERY strange message to
receive.  Bascially DE asked to read/write something and the ICD software said
sorry that's not on this disk.  Please send all the info requested in the tech
support section of your manual to us in e-mail or fax.  Is this reproducable
on a clean system with No Auto folders or ACC's?  Is this reproducable when
Atari's hard disk driver is installed?  I seem to remember some aspects fo you
system that may be sensitive to the driver.


Brian - As mentioned before, DE always rechecks the entire disk each pass
regardless of what is marked bad, this is because the FAT may not be a ggod
indication of the actual physical condition of the disk(take an image copy of
one disk to another, the second disk inherets the first disks FAT)

Best regards,

Bob@ORA


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 85        Wed Jul 28, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 13:52 EDT

DE locks up when I have my system normal setup.  Will only bring up the DOS
error 8 when I have a clean system.  Then it will lock up just like on my
regular setup.  I have only ICD's HD driver, v.6.0.7.

Will post email later tonight on all facts.

Todd

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message  86       Wed Jul 28, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           (Forwarded)

Chuck

 >       I got the "Output device not receiving data" message once...
 >  Five minutes later my hard drive's power supply died!  It may be
 > possible that yours is getting flaky ... It may be worth having
 > your power supply tested,

I hope not. Mine is less than two years old. MSTE with internal HD.  Besides,
nearest repair centre is over 1200 miles away!!


 >Oh, yeah, so if you haven't upgraded to v1.10,

I use 1.10 since the day it came out. I wish that would help.

Bob

 >"Your Output device is not receiveing DATA" is a Operating System
 > message that implies that the hard disk controller is not
 > responding to a command. ...  definately hardware related.

Not disputing you rather asking... Why only with DE? Its heavy use of the
system? Never with HD Sentry. Why, only drive H (only one HD)? I optimise
drives F and D more often without problems.

 > DE always rechecks the entire disk each pass regardless of what is
 > marked bad, ...

But why does it always want to fix the bad clusters? This happens every time I
run it. I know it should find them but why each time do it need to warn be to
fix them and then need to be fixed again?



~~~~Brian ...  Written on Wednesday 28 July 1993 at 06:05 p.m. ADT


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message  87       Wed Jul 28, 1993
R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson]    (Forwarded)

Brian,
  If I remeber correctly, Bob said the reason it rechecks sectors is because
if someone did a image copy of the partition, it would copy the bad sector
list and all. This way, it makes sure that the drive really does have bad
sectors.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 88        Wed Jul 28, 1993
R.GARDNER2 [Gaitor]          at 23:18 EDT

   I have recently experienced some minor problems with my Floptical Disk
drive and looking for a good Disk diagnosis and Defragmenter tool.  I have
checked out the demo of Diamond Edge and think that it might be the tool that
I need, but would like to make sure that it will work with my Atari formatted
Bootable Floptical disks.  I am using the ICD Link SCSI interface with ICDBOOT
ver. 6.0.7 software.                  Thanks,    Bob Gardner

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 89        Thu Jul 29, 1993
C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON]        at 10:17 EDT

Bob,

What problems are you having exactly? I have an Insite Floptical Drive & just
recently purchased Diamond Edge. Ever had the problem of getting a flashing
"disk change" message in the right hand corner of your screen, even though you
hadn't changed disks?

                             Carson
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 90        Thu Jul 29, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 11:47 EDT

Carson - That is inidictive of noise in the DMA cableing.  Our experience has
been that the reliablity of floptical operation is extremely sensitive to
total DMA cable length including any chained devices and noise in the DMA
channel.  We have on system where we have ahd to go to a 18" doubbly sheilded
DMA cable to get reliable operation without spurious "disk change" notices or
data read/write errors fromthe controller.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 92        Thu Jul 29, 1993
C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON]        at 23:05 EDT

Bob@ORA,

I've had 2 floptical disks get corrupted in that way. I would get the flashing
"disk change" message on certain files. One time I was able to read a text
file that was corrupted. Half way through reading it, the flashing message
appeared. The last time it happened, I bought Diamond Edge hoping to salvage a
folder that was corrupted. I couldn't get Disk Medic to even read the disk to
tell me what was wrong. I still have the disk in its corrupted form. Any ideas
that could help me salvage something? Also what routine do you recommend I
follow (maintenance wise) to keep my disks protected. Thanks for all your
help.


                              Carson
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 93        Fri Jul 30, 1993
R.MORROW10 [Bob M.]          at 20:30 EDT

Bob @ ORA:

Found a problem in DE 1.10 today - it will read A:\ and B:\ but not optimize
them.  I tried to do a Full Optimization for some reason, but I had two
problems arise:  One may have been a bad connection to B:\ since the LED would
light up and the head would move, but nothing else happened, except when DE
tried to do it's optimizing.  When it did, I got the normal screen which has
the "Optimization Status" window and a thermometer bar below it.  The
thermometer normally covers just under 1/2 of the screen, but on this
occasion, it overstepped it's bounds and the moving section of the bar blew
right across the full screen!  (Wow!)  I have not been able to reproduce this.

Suspecting a bad disk drive cable, I jiggled it a bit and went to the desktop
to read/write to B:\.  Everything worked fine then.  Back into DE.  No
'exploding thermometer' this time; rather, it simply froze in the 'Working'
part of the Full Optimization.  Still suspecting a problem with B:\, I went to
do the same thing to A:\. Same problem.

In both cases, DE will read the disk, (click on 'Frag Map' and up it comes),
but it won't optimize them for some reason.  (Why anyone would really want to
optimize a floppy, I don't know, but I thought it would help in detecting the
problem I was having.)

I even tried the "Force Media Change" before doing it to check again. I have
an STe with TOS 2.06.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 94        Fri Jul 30, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 20:50 EDT

My advice would be to get a doubly shielded SCSI cable.  On the disk that your
havin probelsm with can you mount it at all?

Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 95        Fri Jul 30, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 20:52 EDT

I configured Mirror for each day, but it runs on each reboot.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 96        Fri Jul 30, 1993
R.MORROW10 [Bob M.]          at 22:56 EDT

Bob/ORA

Never mind about msg 93.  I dunno what happened, but I can work A: and B: now
from DE.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 97        Fri Jul 30, 1993
M.RIVMAN1 [MATT]             at 23:50 EDT

Ken Van -

Did you configure Mirror from within DE or by running the Mirror.PRG from the
desktop?  I can't remember exactly, but I believe it makes a difference.
(Bob/ORA ?) I think I read that somewhere, though I'm not sure if it was in
the doc's or not.

Hope this helps, DE and Mirror are lifesavers!

Matt
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 98        Sat Jul 31, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 08:45 EDT

Matt,

I configured Mirror from within Hotwire, but I don't think that should be a
problem. It should be the same as the desktop.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 99        Sat Jul 31, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 10:52 EDT

Bob M.

I have had this problem for about 4 days now.  Bob is looking into it.  Until
this time, I have been the ONLY person to report this.  I am happy that
someone else has had it happen.

I you kept backups of your other versions ( I did not), then try to find at
which version this started happening at.  I borrowed a copy of version 1.00
and it has no problems optimizing any of partitions.

My whole HD has this problem, even with a clean system.  It even happens with
a totally blank partition, so it is not any of the file data ont he partition.

I have not noticed any data loss.  If you find any put it up here.

I hav sent (at Bobs request) the disk info on my HD (well, one partition).  He
may want you to do that with one of your floppies.

Ddi you have any strange occurences right before this happened?  I was messing
with my system when I got a "too many files open" window and couldn't do
anyhing.  Rebooted and have had problems ever since.

What ahppedn to my HD (or your floppies) I have no idea, but Bob will check it
next week.

Wait.  DO you use a HD?

l8r

Todd

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 100       Sat Jul 31, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 12:56 EDT

Bob M.

Hmm, your stuff works now?  Wish mine did.  AT least now I'm not the only one
that had it occur.

Todd

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 101       Sat Jul 31, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           at 19:48 EDT

I think this got lost since messages after this one were answered:

 >BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           (Forwarded)
 >
 >Chuck
 >
 > >       I got the "Output device not receiving data" message once...
 > >  Five minutes later my hard drive's power supply died!  It may be
 > > possible that yours is getting flaky ... It may be worth having
 > > your power supply tested,
 >
 >I hope not. Mine is less than two years old. MSTE with internal HD.
Besides,
 >nearest repair centre is over 1200 miles away!!
 >
 >
 > >Oh, yeah, so if you haven't upgraded to v1.10,
 >
 >I use 1.10 since the day it came out. I wish that would help.
 >
 >Bob
 >
 > >"Your Output device is not receiveing DATA" is a Operating System
 >
  > > message that implies that the hard disk controller is not
 > > responding to a command. ...  definately hardware related.
 >
 >Not disputing you rather asking... Why only with DE? Its heavy use of the
 >system? Never with HD Sentry. Why, only drive H (only one HD)? I optimise
 >drives F and D more often without problems.
 >
 > > DE always rechecks the entire disk each pass regardless of what is
 > > marked bad, ...
 >
 >But why does it always want to fix the bad clusters? This happens every time
I
 >run it. I know it should find them but why each time do it need to warn be
to
 >fix them and then need to be fixed again?



~~~~Brian ...   Written on Saturday 31 July 1993 at 07:24 p.m. ADT

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 102       Sun Aug 01, 1993
R.MORROW10 [Bob M.]          at 19:58 EDT

Todd-

Yes, I do use a hard drive.  DE runs from the HD.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 103       Mon Aug 02, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 01:18 EDT

Ken Van,

Are you by any chance using ICD host for your clock, and maybe the clock
setter is running AFTER DMirror?

Robb @ ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 104       Mon Aug 02, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 01:50 EDT

Bob M.-  your HD was not affected then?  Guess I'll wait for Bob Luneski's
report.

Todd

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 105       Mon Aug 02, 1993
R.GARDNER2 [Gaitor]          at 02:20 EDT

CARSON:
  The problems that I experienced did include some "Spurious" "Disk Change"
messages.when I hadn't change the disk, but these ususally occured when I
tried to access a file on the disk.  Some of these were due in part to the
amount of time it was taking to locate the file on the disk which made the
SCSI driver think that the drive had timed out.  (I have experienced a similar
time delay accessing files on the Floptical Drive on the 486DX PC that I use
at work).  I have also experienced a few "File Not Found" messages as well as
a few "Unable to Access File" messages (once when I tried to delete a file).
These errors are often followed by a "TOS error" and the Drive Busy light
would stay on with the disk continuing to spin, necessitating a reboot to
bring the system back up.  Most of the problems also seemed to occur in the
partition that I was running ALADDIN from and was due to the very high disk
activity of ALADDIN.          Bob Gardner

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 106       Mon Aug 02, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 07:06 EST

 >>necessitating a reboot to bring the system back up.  Most of the   <<
  >>problems  also seemed to occur in the partition that I was running <<
  >>ALADDIN from and was  due to the very high disk activity of        <<
  >>ALADDIN.          Bob Gardner                                      <<

 Bob,
   Your problems sound hardware related to me.  Like a cable length
 problem, DMA chip problem, or even a SCSI controller problem.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 107       Mon Aug 02, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 07:33 EDT

Bob,

Thanks.

ICD Time runs before DMirror, and the ICDBOOT.SYS runs from the root
directory, presumably before everything. When I booted the computer today, it
automatically rebooted itself, as it has been doing lately after the boot
sequence is nearly complete (after DeskManager, DMirror, etc.), and the
DMirror message then said next mirror 1 day. It will be interesting to see
what happens when I do a coldboot.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 108       Mon Aug 02, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 21:45 EDT

Bob,

It has said 1 day every time I rebooted today, so I guess it's working. I'm
not sure why. Maybe my mucking around changed a path or something.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 109       Wed Aug 04, 1993
R.MORROW10 [Bob M.]          at 02:44 EDT

Todd

Hard drive wasn't affected at all.  DE just didn't like working the two
floppies that one time.  Hasn't happened since.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 110       Wed Aug 04, 1993
C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON]        at 08:48 EDT

I have an Insite floptical drive & purchased Diamond Edge a few weeks ago.
I've been using disk medic regularly & it has found and corrected a few
problems. The reason I bought Diamond Edge was I had a problen with one of my
disks. I have a folder that when I try to access it, I get the flashing "disk
change" message. The drive won't stop churning until I reboot. I can't get
disk medic to test this disk. It tries to read the disk but, when it gets to
that bad folder (or one of the other files that was damaged), I get that "disk
change" message & have to reboot with a different disk to get my computer
back. What should I do??

                              Carson
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 111       Wed Aug 04, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 19:46 EDT

Does DE put lost files at the end of the partition? I just had four on one
partition. After I deleted them, I thought I should re-optimize, but there was
no blank space. Apparently they didn't leave a hole in the middle of the
partition. Neat!

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 112       Wed Aug 04, 1993
T.MAGEE1 [Todd]              at 21:51 EDT

  Bob M. - True I am not Bob Luneski, but if you ever have this happen again
have DE save the disk info about the disk and upload the file to ORA to look
at.  They are going to look at mine, when they get it.

I have noticed that if I run certaion programs BEFORE running DE that
evewrything is fine.  An example of a program that does this?  Well, believe
it or not, Aladdin 1.61!  Why?  I have no idea.  If you are wondering, having
a clean setup (no auto or ACCs) does not take away my problem.

DE 1.00 still works fine.   Hopefully either DE 1.10 does something better
than 1.00 and caught something, or 1.10 has some little oversight in it.  It
is definetely a great program, but hopefully something can be found.  I'm
still the only one to have this and not have it disappear.  Been a little over
a week now.

Todd

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 113       Thu Aug 05, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 03:03 EDT

Carson - You are experiencing a problem common to many Floptical users.
Spurious read/write errors, spontaneous disk change messages etc.  this is
sympotmatic of nosie in the DMA cables.  Flopticals are extremely sensitve to
the total DMA cable length as well as the quality of the DMA cables you use.
We never got completely reliable operation out of ours untill we went to 18"
doubbly shelded cables.

Ken - coincidence.  The lost clusters are left where they are.  The FAT table
and directory entries are updated to reflect their presence.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 114       Thu Aug 05, 1993
C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON]        at 08:17 EDT

Bob@ORA,

Thanks for the reply. I understand about the cable length. My ? was how to
retrieve the damaged folders & files. I get the impression you think I get the
flashing "disk change" message at random. Something has actually corrupted
certain files & folders. After I've booted up (from another disk), I can put
the damaged disk in & MaxiFile will show me the directory. It's when I click
on the damaged folder or file & the computer tries to read or execute it.
That's when I get that "disk change" message. Like I said before, I can't get
Disk Medic to even read the damaged disk to tell me what is wrong. I get the,
you guessed it, flashing "disk change" message.

My floptical has been very reliable for me. The 2 disks that were corrupted
were because of very short power outages (10 seconds or less) during disk
access.

So, what is the best way to use Diamond Edge to recover my damaged folders &
files. Also when this happens in the future what will be the best thing to do.
(restore disk info, restore SCSI info, or ?)

                          Thanks,

                              Carson

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 115       Mon Aug 09, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 02:18 EDT

If you have a disk info file for the partition then you can use it to
reinstall and perhaps recover the lost info.  If the disk structure has been
damaged then you can attempt to fix it and then recover the missing data from
lostcluster files.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 116       Mon Aug 09, 1993
GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop]       at 20:55 EDT

When I try to run MIRROR for my floptical drive it displays a message about
the FAT size being inconsistent with the sector (?) size.  (I think that's the
message anyway).  It tells me to run medic to repair the problem, but medic
says that everything is okay!  Odd, eh?

  Gordon


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 117       Mon Aug 09, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 22:33 EDT

Do you have the floptical it formated normal Atari or interchangeable 4
sector/cluster??

I'll look at it.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 118       Mon Aug 16, 1993
M.MASTALER [Mike]            at 02:30 EDT

 Hello. I uploaded a font folder into Pagestream2.2. The folder seemed
 messed up (instead of files, there were more folders, and Universal
 item selecter couldn't delete them, "locked files? " were there.
 ) I fired up your Diamond edge demo, and in my partition "I",
 the demo said that there were, "21 INVALID DIRECTORIES, AND
 172 LOST CLUSTERS". Can diamond edge help???
  I *swear* i was thinking of buying the program; I hoope its not too
 late. I've ONLY had the harddrive a few months. Help!!

                    Mike
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 119       Mon Aug 16, 1993
T.HORNIG [Thomas]            at 03:26 EDT

             **********HELP**************

I just repartitioned my Hardrive on my Mega STe and then optimised it using
Datalite. afterwards I wanted to delete three folders and dragged them to the
trash can. Suddenly my harddrive started going for it: the screen froze up and
I heard the drive running and running. I finally panicked and rebooted the
system since everything was stuck. I run medic in Edge which gave me following
message:

        Root Directory Full
        Do you want to discard unrecovered lost clusters or leave
        them in the FAT for later recovery.

I clicked on leave and medic went on telling me: Errors have been fixed 6000
lost clusters.

My entire partition is now filled with lost001.dat, lost002.dat ...

Is there any way I can recover my data??????????????

Thomas

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 120       Mon Aug 16, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 07:26 EDT

Mike,

Yes, Diamond Edge can almost certainly help.  In the meantime, I wouldn't
write anything to that partition if I were you ... better back up what you can
of it, if you haven't already.

  gnox

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 121       Tue Aug 17, 1993
M.MASTALER [Mike]            at 02:39 EDT

 Gnox, Thanks, I ordered today diamond edge AND diamond back. I don't know
 what's wrong with that folder; it refuses to be deleted ! I've used
 Universal Item selector AND the Gem desktop, and either of them will
 delete the folder (and the other folders within it). See, the 15 files that
 were originally in the folder *somehow* got turned into FOLDERS also.
 They show, however, there are NO bytes there .  Weird.       Mike
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 122       Wed Aug 18, 1993
ORA.TECH [Robb]              at 02:27 EDT

Mike

Most anything that the demo finds can be fixed by Disk medic in the full
version, as well as including several ways to safeguard your data ahead of
time.

Robb @ ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 123       Wed Aug 18, 1993
M.RIVMAN1 [MATT]             at 03:37 EDT

Mike,

Someone (even you, perhaps) may have addressed this already, but...

Have you dragged the un-deletable folder to the check-mark (lower rt. corner)
in Universal Item Selector to check the folders status?

If I'm not mistaken, the system will not be able to delete it if it is set to
'read only' status.

I could be wrong about this, but I seem to remember reading something like
that somewhere.

If I'm wrong, sorry.  But hey, it can't hurt to try it.  Even if it does work,
getting DE and DBII is a win-win deal!  They are two great items.

Matt
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 124       Wed Aug 18, 1993
GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop]       at 21:44 EDT

Bob -

Regarding the message I am getting with MIRROR and the Floptical. The
floptical is formatted in interchangeable (not Atari) format.

Gordon


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 125       Wed Aug 18, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 23:09 EDT

Bob,

RE msg 113... Thanks. (I'm kind of slow responding because I just got back
from your country. Mt. St. Helens, the entire coast, Crater Lake, Bend, Mt.
Hood, Columbia Gorge, The Dalles. Gorgeous! (No pun intended.) I gave Rod
MacDonald a call while in Grants Pass.

Ken Van

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 126       Thu Aug 19, 1993
M.MASTALER [Mike]            at 03:27 EDT

 Matt...... I *think* I checked out the file that way; nothing was checked!
 I changed it to read and write only, and it still doesn't delete with
 UIS 3.32.
 When I go to the GEM desktop (V1.2) 1040st, Dragging the folder to the
 trash can CRASHES the system. I get 2 or 3 bombs. My two diamond programs
 will arrive tomorrow (thurs). Let you know what happens.      Mike
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 127       Fri Aug 20, 1993
J.RENNER1 [Kheldar]          at 00:30 EDT

I just upgrade to 1.1 (via DataLite 2) and when i upgraded it gave me a
validation error. I read to read.me about the TT RAM flags etc. and that was
probably my problem. I don't have 1.03 kicking around, i was dumb and didn't
copy it to floppies when i updated from 1.01 or some such version.

Should i worry about the error?

Jim.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 128       Fri Aug 20, 1993
J.RENNER1 [Kheldar]          at 00:59 EDT

Never mind. I found a v103.prg and resource in an old HD backup. An was able
to update that version. Thanks in advance (and because of aladin lag) for any
help.

Kheldar.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 129       Fri Aug 20, 1993
T.HORNIG [Thomas]            at 02:30 EDT

hi bob, rob,

last sunday I put an urgent message up here that nobody so far has answered,
so I got the feeling maybe I messed it up. So here it is again:

I optimised my F Drive with Datalite II after that I dragged two folders to
the trash can to get rid of them. Suddenly my harddrive started working like
crazy and wouldn't stop so I finally rebooted my system since I got scared to
lose any data. I then went into Edge and run medic which gave me following
message: Root Directory full Do you want to discard unrecovered lost clusters
or leave them in the FAT for later recovery?

Discard       Leave

I chose leave. After that my entire Drive F had only LOST0001.DAT,
LOST0002.DAT ... How can I recover these files ??????? I don't seem to find an
answer in the manual. I do have a backup fortunately, but I sure as hell would
like to know what happened and how to avoid stuff like that in the future.

Thanks

Thomas

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 130       Fri Aug 20, 1993
M.MASTALER [Mike]            at 18:11 EDT

 An update to my hard disk problems; where I couldn't delete some
 folders. DIAMOND BACK and DIAMOND EDGE arrived yesterday, and in a
 word; IT WORKS !!!!! These two programs are EXCELLENT !

 Anyone with a harddrive should have these programs. All my partitions
 are now optimized and defragmented. I have three suggestions; 1- READ
 THE MANUAL, 2- READ THE MANUAL , 3 R.T.M. The manuals are well
 written,but as they state, you can erase partitions and lose data
 permanently.
    Well done Oregon Research.                      Mike
 a

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 131       Fri Aug 20, 1993
GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop]       at 23:33 EDT

Thomas -

The LOST000?.DAT files _are_ your recovered files.  Well, sort of anywya. They
contain the data that was in the lost clusters.  It's all clumped together
however. Anything but ASCII text is most likely beyond hope.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 132       Fri Aug 20, 1993
M.RIVMAN1 [MATT]             at 23:41 EDT

Mike M. -

Hooray!  And welcome to the Oragon Research Fan Club!!

Matt
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 133       Sat Aug 21, 1993
C.OATES2 [Chris]             at 04:26 EDT

Any info on the problem I was having where the font got munged after backing
up?

     ~Chris
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 134       Sat Aug 21, 1993
D.FREELAND [SAXMAN]          at 12:07 EDT

I just got Diamond Edge v1.10 for my F030 and when I tried to set up my
emergency disk by saving my SCSI info, it bombed out.  Any ideas?

David
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 135       Sat Aug 21, 1993
ORA.TECH [Robb]              at 21:22 EDT

Thomas, Root directory full - there are a limited number of files that can
exist in a root of a drive.  Try cleaning up your root drive and then try to
recover the files from the lostxxx.dat.

Bob Allan,

Alladin works fine with manual compression, it does append uncompressed data
to the end of a compressed file, then next time you compress, it will compress
the whole thing.

Kheldar, Send us your original 1.01, and we will send you 1.10.

Saxman,

if you are using a stock falcon with the internal drive, it is an IDE drive,
not scsi, so it isn't really possible to save the SCSI info :')

Robb @ ORA




 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 136       Sun Aug 22, 1993
J.RENNER1 [Kheldar]          at 00:10 EDT

robb,

thanks but i found a v1.03 and got it upgraded without a hitch.

Kheldar.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 137       Sun Aug 22, 1993
T.HORNIG [Thomas]            at 02:32 EDT

Hi Rob,

How do I recover files from the lostxxx.dat
??????????????????????????????????????????

thomas

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 138       Sun Aug 22, 1993
D.FREELAND [SAXMAN]          at 12:49 EDT

I also have a SCSI hooked up to my my F030. A 120MB Maxtor. I was only
hightlighting the SCSI drive when I tried to do the operation.

David
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 139       Sun Aug 22, 1993
R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23]      at 21:55 EST

I tried making a folder on my Syquest drive D: earlier today and
 MaxiFile wouldn't let me create one. Nor could I copy/move any files
 onto D:. I used Diamond Edge 1.03 to check it out and got numerous
 "Fatal DOS error #-1 Opening File Location 1792"'s. When I tried to
 fix the drive, DE seemed to get almost finished, then another error
 #-1 would pop up and my computer would freeze.

 Is there anything I can do?

   -------------------------------
   + ON-AIR [08:34 PM-22/Aug/93] +
   -------------------------------
   +      LIVE  AND  DIRECT      +
   ROD MARTIN, NETWORK 23 SOFTWARE
   -------------------------------


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 140       Mon Aug 23, 1993
J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er]  at 18:05 EDT

  Just noticed something strange.  I am running NeoDesk all the time.

I accidently deleted a folder and realized it immediately.  I did not write
anything to that partition.  I ran DE and undeleted the folder then undeleted
the contents of the folder.  Now when I am at Neodesk looking at a directory
of that partition, that particular folder now shows 1024 in the filesize
instead of zero.

                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                ^^^^    JSW    ^^^^
                ^^^^   ST'er   ^^^^
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Monday, August 23, 1993 - 3:12:26 pm
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 141       Wed Aug 25, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 19:18 EDT

Jeff - I take it th folder undeletion wnet fine? I'll look at it. Thanks.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 142       Wed Aug 25, 1993
J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er]  at 23:57 EDT

  Bob,

Yes the folder un-deleted fine along with all the files in it.

                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                ^^^^    JSW    ^^^^
                ^^^^   ST'er   ^^^^
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Wednesday, August 25, 1993 - 11:20:32 pm
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 143       Tue Aug 31, 1993
D.GILLOGLY1 [FunkyKitchen]   at 19:39 EDT

Hi all,

Its time to get D Edge. Who's got what kind of prices?

Thanks in Advance

                         == --  FunkyDan -- ==




 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 144       Wed Sep 01, 1993
M.MASTALER [Mike]            at 02:26 EDT

 Hello all. well, I've been down for repairs for about a week. If some
 of you remember, my HD partitions seemed messed up, I couldn't run
 DIAMOND EDGE, I had files that wouldn't delete, etc.
 Well.. Thanks to Bob Luneski at OREGON RESEARCH ASSOCIATES, we got it
 licked ! Bottom line, I "fried" my TOS 1.2 chips. I had no idea that
 these chips could get corrupted, but they did. Bob also suggested I
 add to my AUTO folder the program called " FOLDRXXX.PRG ", which fixes
 the 40 folder limit of the Atari. I don't understand it all, but Bob
 did. THANK YOU, BOB.               Mike
 a
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 145       Wed Sep 01, 1993
M.MASTALER [Mike]            at 02:29 EDT

 Funky, D. EDGE $47; D. Back $34 @ Toad Computers 1-800-448-TOAD

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 146       Thu Sep 02, 1993
G.NELSON16 [GFN]             at 20:40 EDT

Mike,

        I hope you upgraded your TOS to 1.4 or higher, TOS 1.0-1.2 where
pathetic dogs compared to the higher levels. (Avoid if at all possible)

Gerald

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 147       Sun Sep 05, 1993
M.MASTALER [Mike]            at 03:07 EDT

Yes Gerald, I got 1.4; all's well.  Thanks.            Mike
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 148       Sun Sep 19, 1993
T.HORNIG [Thomas]            at 19:08 EDT

Hi Bob, I recently bought a falcon which till the end of this week at least
only has 1meg Ram. Edge works fine on it except: Everytime when I try to save
SCSII information the computer bombs.

Why is that? Is it memory related or is it a bug?

Thanks Thomas
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 149       Sun Sep 19, 1993
D.FREELAND [SAXMAN]          at 20:24 EDT

Thomas, I have experienced the exact same problem on my Falcon and I have
informed Bob of this.  Thanks for the post, hopefully it will make me look
less crazy in Bob's eyes now that someone else has the same problem. <GRIN>

David
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 150       Tue Sep 21, 1993
J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER]      at 00:30 EDT

When I run the medic function in Edge and I'm told that an error needs to be
fixed, and what results is a lost cluster file on the hard drive, I'm
wondering if that lost cluster (a piece of text, for example) no longer is in
the original file it belongs in? In other words, has it disappeared from the
letter or document that I originally wrote? Or is this just a duplication of
that section of the original document.

What is a lost cluster, exactly, and what should I do after a lost cluster
file shows up on my hard drive after running Medic?

- Jason Saffer
  Hercules, California
  Monday, September 20, 1993  9:30 pm

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 151       Tue Sep 21, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 18:35 EDT

Jason,

A lost cluster is just what the term sounds like -- a portion of the contents
of the disk that belongs to no other portion. Disk clusters (a cluster is the
smallest unit of storage on a disk, and is usually two sectors) are normally
linked to other clusters, if the file is large enough, and should always be
referenced to an address in the file allocation table. When a cluster that is
supposed to be linked is not linked, it is "lost." When this happens to a
cluster that contains program code, it's cooked. When it happens to a cluster
that contains text, you can usually figure it out and put it back into some
sort of order.

Often, however, a lost cluster contains nothing of importance, since the disk
driver may already have bypassed that cluster when it saved new files.

Al
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 152       Tue Sep 21, 1993
G.LEONE [Gerry]              at 21:07 EDT

  >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 18:35 EDT

 >supposed to be linked is not linked, it is "lost." When this happens to a
 >cluster that contains program code, it's cooked. When it happens to a
cluster
 >that contains text, you can usually figure it out and put it back into some
 >sort of order.
 >
 >Often, however, a lost cluster contains nothing of importance, since the
disk
 >driver may already have bypassed that cluster when it saved new files.

AL --

And don't forget MIDI files... they fall into the "cooked" category if you get
a lost cluster.  Usually won't load into the sequencer, and it's impossible to
fix the file.

  -Gerry
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 153       Wed Sep 22, 1993
M.RIVMAN1 [MATT]             at 02:06 EDT

Jason,

I usually use a text editor (STeno for example) to look at a lost cluster if
I'm not sure I need it.  If it has readable text in it, and I can tell ahere
it's from, I will check that file to be sure I don't need it.  If it's not
needed anymore, I delete it.

I may be wrong about this, but... I think if you use the recoverable trashcan
in NeoDesk, and don't permanently delete or undelete any files in a partition
before you run Medic on it, those files become lost cluster.dat files.

Al is right though.  I have in the past had _many_ lost cluster files appear
after a Medic run and I have never seen anything I needed to keep.  (This is
just my experience though)

Matt

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 154       Wed Sep 22, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 03:25 EDT

Right, Gerry, how right you are!

Al
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 155       Wed Sep 22, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 06:39 EDT

 >>  And don't forget MIDI files... they fall into the "cooked"       <<
  >>category if you  get a lost cluster.  Usually won't load into the  <<
  >>sequencer, and it's  impossible to fix the file.                   <<

 Ditto with compressed files.  About the only type file you have much
 chance of recovering the lost sectors on is a text file.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 156       Wed Sep 22, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 06:58 EDT

Good point, Matt. And this is a piece of advice I've been giving readers (and
use myself(: The best recoverable trashcan is a folder named TRASH in which
you move files and folders you want to delete. While they are in the TRASH
folder, you can run all sorts of disk-fixing utilities without a problem. When
you're finally ready to empty the trash, go ahead and toss everything out.

I've even tried one approach in which the recoverable trash can was a small
partition, which could be zeroed out when it ws time to toss out the trash.

I know of some folks who use a SyQuest cart as their trashcan, just putting in
a new one when the old one is full. They do this on rotation, so they always
have a few unemptied trashcans that they can dip into to find something they
really wanted to save. But that's overkill, or maybe overtrash...

Al
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 157       Wed Sep 22, 1993
P.KILLIAN [Pete K]           at 22:11 EDT

  David and Thomas:

I also have experienced the SCSI bombing, but only have the built-in IDE
drive.  I'm no expert on the subject, but I have always attributed the bombs
to the fact that there is NO SCSI info to save!

-- Pete [Atarian Mind]
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 158       Wed Sep 22, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 23:30 EDT

You never know, though, Al. A file I recently need wasn't on my hard drive. I
found it on a floppy that was a year or two old, and laying around gathering
dust. Stuff like that makes one realize that being neat isn't what it's
cracked up to be. I hate to think I could have formatted that disk. ;^)

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 159       Thu Sep 23, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 03:42 EDT

Al,

Well, I think the _best_ recoverable trashcan is the one maintained by Data
Rescue, because you can set it to automatically delete files that have been in
there for a chosen length of time, or to clean out the oldest files when the
Trash folder reaches a chosen size, or both! It's saved me several times and I
never have to give it a thought.

... and it works great with Diamond Edge, of course.  ;)

  gnox

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 160       Fri Sep 24, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 03:32 EDT

Gnox,

Yes, that DOES sound great. But my experience with computer semi-literates
suggests that the best way of deleting a file is just to move it out of the
way, and that's what I do for them at the office. My software moves a copy of
everything they have sent in to be edited into a folder that they don't
ordinarily see. Many of them have been amazed that I could dig out the file
they "lost."

Al
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 161       Fri Sep 24, 1993
MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp]        at 14:23 EDT

Al,

My brother is the editor of a newspaper in southern California.  They use
Macs.  He has a policy that no one cleans out the trash on the Mac network
except him, which he does daily.  He says he is amazed at the number of files
that end up in the trash that people didn't mean to put there!

In such an environment, a recoverable trashcan is almost a necessity!

BTW, he came down to Glendale and we had a family mini-reunion.  He was amazed
at the speed of the MSTes we were using at the GEnie booth vis-a-vis the Macs
he uses in the newspaper office.  He left with a serious lust for a Falcon!  I
tried to steer him to a TT with either a Cyrel or CrazyDots card, but the
Falcon seems to have really grabbed him.  He says that if Dave Small had the
Falcon Spectre out there would be no doubt, he'd have a Falcon in a jiffy.  He
was drooling over some of the stuff Mario was doing at the DMC display.

Just to keep on topic (hi, Brian), I bought Diamond Edge at Glendale. The
first new purchase I installed on my MSTe (even ahead of the W9 upgrade) was
Diamond Edge.  I had been impressed by the demo, but the speed and elegance of
the actual optimization (I hadn't realized that it did more than just de-
fragment) was truly amazing.  I think that Diamond Edge falls into the
exclusive "must have" category for any ST/TT/Falcon owner with a hard drive.
Nice job!

        Mike Allen
        ST HelpDesk~Sysop

        Written: 11:47 AM Mountain Time
                 Friday, September 24, 1993

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 162       Fri Sep 24, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 18:47 EDT

  Will the latest version of DE allow you to format or partition the internal
HD in a Falcon 030? I tried it with version 1.03 and it couldn't read the boot
sector.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 163       Fri Sep 24, 1993
M.SHANNON [Morgan]           at 23:09 EDT

Al,

Is that contemporary ATARI software, or is is B-BLU? I have an ancient program
called
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 164       Sat Sep 25, 1993
P.KILLIAN [Pete K]           at 11:28 EDT

RE:  bombing with Edge and Falcon on SCSI saving

Since it had been a while since I had checked out the SCSI save, I decided to
try it again -- NO bombs this time!  Maybe the update to fpatch did the
trick??!  Also, I was in ST High mode this time -- will check other modes
shortly.  I normally use non-interlace, 16-color mode (nope, no difference).
Tried disabling fpatch also, still works, weird!

 -- Pete [Atarian Mind]
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 165       Sun Sep 26, 1993
M.RIVMAN1 [MATT]             at 02:57 EDT

Bob,

Just finished a back up of my F:/ partition, which I had optimized with DL2
just prior to backing up.  I then looked at the frag map for that partition
with Diamond Edge.  It showed a bunch of fragmented areas.  Will running the
Edge optimizer do anything for that?  I did set the BPB and DFREE to Abs. Max
prior to the back up and the mapping.

Is this the way DE 'sees' a DL2 partition?

Just curious,

Matt
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 166       Mon Sep 27, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 14:51 EDT

O-zone,

version 1.10 recognises the IDE boot sectors on the Falcon.  Look for a patch
to 1.10 here on the GEnie libraries.

Matt, optimising with Diamond Edge on a Datalite partition will probably
DEGRADE your performance.  DL keeps its own map of everything, and when you
'optimise for speed' it 'defragments' for itself.

Robb @ ORA

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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 167       Mon Sep 27, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 18:59 EDT

Bob,

  I thought as much. I tried upgrading with that version in the library before
and it wouldn't work properly. I'll just send my disk in and perhaps you'll be
so kind as to upgrade it for me.
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 168       Mon Sep 27, 1993
M.SHANNON [Morgan]           at 22:35 EDT

 ORA-Bob
 How soon do you see DIAMOND-BACK (I have DATAlite partitions only 60%
 full and I'm out of Tape-space[150mbyteLimit] due to 63mb
 partitions)? I'm chomping at the bit :^).
 Morgan

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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 169       Tue Sep 28, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 21:10 EDT

  Oh, rats! I just noticed that I sent you my Diamond Back disc instead of my
Diamond Edge disc. <fume!> I'll send the right one tomorrow. Maybe you should
hold on to the other though if the release of DB3 is imminent. Is it? How
much?
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 170       Wed Sep 29, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 07:54 EDT

When Mirror is updated (reconfigured), does the change get written to the
DMIRROR.PRG file or elsewhere? Is there any restriction on where the DAT files
are? (Do they have to be on a partition close to C?)

Ken Van
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 171       Fri Oct 01, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 13:03 EDT

  Morgan, Check out the DB topic, should be 6 weeks or so.

Ken Van,

When you configure mirror within Edge, you can choose the partitions to
mirror, when to mirror them, and where to save the data file to. The path is
up to you.

Robb @ ORA

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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 172       Sat Oct 02, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 08:08 EDT

Robb @ ORA,

The reason I asked about Mirror is that it gives me the update menu, but then
it won't save, saying it can't update (or whatever). It isn't compressed or
something, but I deleted a bunch of files from the AUTO folder, and moved the
data files from F to H. I thought this might have caused the problem because I
might have deleted an .INF file or tried to save to un unrecognizable
partition. I'll try configuring from within Edge to see if that works. (Didn't
remember you could do that.)

Ken Van
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 173       Sat Oct 02, 1993
J.REYNOLDS26 [James]         at 17:08 EDT




Hello.


I'm trying to upgrade from a Syquest 44Mb to a Fujitsu 128Mb optical drive.
I cannot get DE to see the drive as it will the Syquest. Any ideas?

Thanks.
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 174       Sat Oct 02, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 22:51 EDT

Mirror updated fine from within Edge. I was trying to just run Mirror, which
has worked for me but not this time.

Ken Van
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 175       Mon Oct 04, 1993
S.SAMUELS [ORCA]             at 04:53 EDT

I have the same problem as J.Reynolds26 with DE not seeing a Maxtor 650 meg
drive ...that is it can't find it to write the scsi info. ICD's Howard Peters
had to help me out for this same drive also with the ICD Pro Booter.  He made
and sent me a special little "retries" prg. that altered the booter with
options for 1, 2, 3 and 4 'retries'.  We found that given 2 retries, the
booter found the drive just fine.  If I recall correctly it had something to
do with this particular drive being very fast to respond to being polled for
its info.  Perhaps the same sort of thing needs to be applied to DE???
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 176       Wed Oct 06, 1993
M.SHANNON [Morgan]           at 02:32 EDT

ORCA, "Retries" is now part of Version 6.2.0 of the ICD Boot-'em-UP utilities
package. So thanks to you and Howard we all benefit from your experience
Regards Morgan
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 177       Wed Oct 06, 1993
R.FEINMAN [R.FEINMAN]        at 21:39 EDT

 Hi! I just got two new drives (1 fixed and 1 syquest) to replace my
 old ones and am trying to get the most out of Edge and Back.
 Problems: I'm running TOS 1.0 and have added more folders, but both
 programs are very unforgiving if the limit is exceeded. I think
 better error trapping would be nice. If I am doing some sort of
 operation to successive drives I can overstep the limit and get
 strange results from both programs. Nothing is worse than having a
 program partially backup something and think that it has fully done
 it.

 Minor point: Many of the alert box button don't fit in the message
 box. I've noticed this in several other recent programs as well.
 Is it possible that newer version of TOS can adjust things better?
 I fixed a couple of them by using a sector editor and shortening
 "CONTINUE".

 After having gotten my new drives I decided to move Edge to a new
 partititon, but find that it is somehow internally branded and won't
 save any updates if it is located in a new spot. Since the floppy
 install program disappeared there doesn't seem to be a way to
 reinstall. The system used with registering the copy in BACK is much
 more user friendly.

 With my old disks I started to get many -11 error messages and the
 alert asked if I wanted to retry, but if I said yes it was obvious
 that the disk was not being reaccessed since the activitiy light
 would not come on again. Fortunately I don't seem to have this type
 of errors any more (that's why I bought new drives).

 On the configuration screen for Backup options there is an "F" near
 the bottom. I couldn't find what it is used for in the documentation.
 Although the archive bit doesn't work right with TOS 1.0 I have been
 using it with reasonable sucess with Turtle until now. One just needs
 to be careful when installing new files as opposed to editing them.
 In Diamond Back the Clear Option seems to turn off the archive bit
 (I know that Atari reversed the meaning somewhere along the line, but
 other programs check the version and do the right thing). I would
 like the backup to set the bit so that I could back up only unset
 files next time. I'll take responsibility for seeing that the right
 files have the archive bit unset. I thought the "F" might reverse the
 sense?

 If it make any difference I'm using SCSI Quantum drive, Syquest and
 ICD Link and ICDBOOT utilities.

 Thanks for any help... Robert Feinman


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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 178       Fri Oct 08, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 03:26 EDT

Robert,

Arew you using FOLDRXXX.PRG in your auto folder, or the ICD booter's folder-
limit expansion feature?

There's no reason to put up with problems with the number of folders, even
with TOS 1.00. If you don't have FOLDRXXX.PRG, I'll e-mail it to you, or you
can find it in the libraries here.

There is no way for hard-drive software to overcome this problem in TOS
(especially in TOS 1.00) except by a software patch such as FOLDRXXX.PRG or
the patch that is included in the ICD booter. The folder fix is simple to use;
you rename it FOLDR099.PRG to get an increase to 99+40, or 139 folders, for
example.

Al
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 179       Fri Oct 08, 1993
K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH]   at 22:39 EDT

Robert,

My copies of Supra's HD software also allows for increasing the number of
folders.

Ken S.
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 180       Fri Oct 08, 1993
T.HORNIG [Thomas]            at 23:05 EDT

Hi Bob,

I have noticed that I'm not able to run Edge under geneva on my falcon it
works great on my mega ste but not on my falcon How come???????

Thomas

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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 181       Sat Oct 09, 1993
S.SAMUELS [ORCA]             at 14:18 EDT

Morgan, ...hmmm ...that's good news about 'retries' as part of the package.
However, I think what I was getting at was that the DE and Mirror package
needed something like that in it.  The ICD booter (I use the pro version) sees
all my drives just fine with 2 retries, BUT the DE can't find the scsi info
for one of the drive, (the Maxtor 650).  Since I know the ICD booter had to
have retries prg. to see this drive, I suspect the same problem with the DE
software.  Is that a clearer presentation of the problem?
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 182       Sun Oct 10, 1993
M.SHANNON [Morgan]           at 00:32 EDT

ORCA, Yes, a clearer presentation to be sure, but as yet no clear solution.
I'm taking it for granted that you are 'auto-booting" off of your A:\ drive...
are you using SCSI-PASS, or WRITEBOOT? I found the llatter to be most
effective and have been using it successfully for the last year or so. It
_always_ sees my drive\s LUN0, ID-1 & ID-2, and DE hasn't had any trouble
recognizing them either. I wonder sometimes about lack of standards in
hardware configurations.... oh well. Morgan

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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 183       Sun Oct 10, 1993
S.SAMUELS [ORCA]             at 00:51 EDT

Morgan, ...on the system in question here, a Mega 4, with 3 HD's on the chain,
and the 'un-seen' Maxtor 650 3rd in that chain, ...I boot off the C:\
partition.... of course, and with scsi wait in the A:\drive.
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 184       Mon Oct 11, 1993
J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus]        at 12:54 EDT

ORCA

One quick question on that Mega 4, did you use the same hard drive utilities
to format all the hard drives? I ran into problems a little while ago where I
used ICD on one and Atari on the rest. I have also had problems when I have
brain farted and used ICD to format and Atari to boot. To me there is little
difference as to which utility I use, I just like the ICD stuff better.

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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 185       Tue Oct 12, 1993
S.SAMUELS [ORCA]             at 02:43 EDT

I ONLY use ICD on all my systems, all the time! ...and always have!! I won't
even consider using the Atari so-called HD software, thanks just the same!
You see, as I said, I now use the ICD pro-series booter on everything, along
with the versions of Clean-up and the Tape back-up program for that pro
booter.  Thanks for the thoughts.
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 186       Tue Oct 12, 1993
O-ZONE [Flakes]              at 17:37 EDT

  OK, I finally got my upgrade and tried to use it to re-partition the HD in
my Falcon. This time the program did recognize the device and following the
instructions I split it into 1 partition then selected "Install and rebuild
all." Then I selected "Exit" and it told me the computer would reboot. It did
into its default mode but when I tried to run HINSTALL.PRG it told me there
was no logical drive. I re-ran Edge and when I selected "Partition HD" I get 2
bombs again.

  I reformatted the disc using the HDX program and partitioned it to one
sector, (minus a few megs of space, mind you) and once again when I ran
HINSTALL.PRG it said there was no logical drive.

  I then tried an old supra utilities program and it says "Drive C not
responding."

  Why can't anybody recognize drive C any more? How do I fix this?
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 187       Wed Oct 13, 1993
M.SHANNON [Morgan]           at 01:24 EDT

ORCA, Does this fit the time-frame of problems you have had with Calamus and
it's check-sum? (if it does I still don't know, just fishing here for
deductable data. Morgan
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 188       Fri Oct 15, 1993
S.SAMUELS [ORCA]             at 03:15 EDT

Morgan, ...no, no....   SL runs on my TT and here I'm talking about a Maxtor
650 as the third drive on a Mega system.  That is the drive that DE can't find
to record the scsi info for.  It does however find it for mirroring.  BTW,
thanks for your thoughts about the SL thing, ...I'll post what I find, ...when
I find it! %^)
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 189       Fri Oct 15, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 13:26 EDT

Flakes,

You need to run AHDI from the desktop to have access to the HD before you can
run HINSTALL to install an autoboot driver.

S.Samuels,

I seem to have missed the first part of your thread on this problem, could you
leave GE-mail and restate, and I'll see what I can come up with.

Robb @ ORA


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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 190       Fri Oct 15, 1993
B.AEIN [B Man]               at 18:08 EDT

I have been having problems with Fatal Dos -1 errors and would like to track
down the problem.

Thanks Bman
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 191       Sat Oct 16, 1993
M.SHANNON [Morgan]           at 10:04 EDT

Bman, As I recall my "error-days"... try re-installing your boot-sector
(carefully tho!) on your ROOT drive usunf DE (usually C:\). I believe it fixed
mine. M
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 192       Sat Oct 16, 1993
S.SAMUELS [ORCA]             at 16:56 EDT

will do ORA, see you in email.
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 193       Sat Oct 16, 1993
GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop]       at 23:53 EDT

Regarding the validation files, what does DE do when a file that was
previously 'validated' (checksum or CRC) no longer exists?  I know there is an
option to add new files to the validation file, but will it automatically
delete old files that are now gone?


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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 194       Sun Oct 17, 1993
M.MOTOGAWA [MEL]             at 00:24 EDT

Gordon,

     I've wondered about that myself and I assume that the deleted file's
checksum information stays in the validation file until you delete the old
validation file and start a new one.  But that would be neat if the validation
information could be automatically deleted for files that no longer exist,
thus maintaining a trim validation file.

     - Mel

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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 195       Mon Oct 18, 1993
ORA [Bob]                    at 14:41 EDT

Bman,

We need a little more info :')

Tell us what system you are using, and what operation you are performing when
you get these errors, and we'll make sure we answer your questions.

Gordon, DE leaves the info in the validation file.


Robb @ ORA


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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 196       Mon Oct 18, 1993
B.AEIN [B Man]               at 21:49 EDT

Bob,

Um I am using my HD on my mega 4 and on my Falcon, BUT not at the same time, I
have a switch that powers down the ICD board.  It's a quantum 240 with ICD
6.23 soft.

When I go to optimize, DE says Fatal Dos error -1 1762

After Medic gets thru, I have lost cluster files on the root of that drive.

Anything more?

Thanks Bman
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 197       Mon Oct 18, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 22:15 EDT

Mel,

I think Bob hinted the next version would delete deleted files, so maybe it
will take care of validation, too.

Ken Van
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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 198       Mon Oct 18, 1993
M.MOTOGAWA [MEL]             at 23:28 EDT

Ken,

     That's right, and that would be a cool feature too, removing deleted
files from the backup saveset also.

     - Mel

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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 199       Wed Oct 20, 1993
C.UNDERWOOD1 [CARSON]        at 10:14 EDT

I have been using Edge for about 6 months & am very happy with it. It is a
great piece of work. But of course I have a few suggestions for the next
upgrade.

It would be nice if some of the functions could be controlled from a command
line or maybe as an "installed application" or from an AUTO folder (ala
Diamond Mirror). It would be so convenient for Edge to automatically have Disk
Medic test all specified partitions, if there are no errors etc., save disk
info for all specified partitions. Another thing that would be helpful is if
Edge automatically did a frag map at a user specified time (once a week or ?)
& when the number of fragmented files reached a certain number or percentage
of total files wre fragmented, Edge would notify you.


                               Carson

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Category 33,  Topic 3
Message 200       Wed Oct 27, 1993
GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop]       at 00:18 EDT

Yes, I'm really anxious for DB3 to be able to remove deleted files from the
backup saveset.  I'm hoping it is released before I get to the point in my
backup strategy that I have to do so manually.

Regarding DE validation files, it'd be nice to be able to update, or correct,
a checksum. For example, if I compute a checksum on a program that stores a
configuration internally (like MIRROR) and then later change the config, DE
keeps telling me the program failed validation.  If only I could get it to
accept the new checksum as being valid from that point forward.

Gordon


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