========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 33, Topic 3 Message 1 Mon Jan 04, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 22:46 EST I have write verify off as well as read/write cache. I'm using ICD's AdSCSI+ ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 2 Tue Jan 05, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 05:48 EDT Bob, Live fast, love hard, die young..... Do you use seat belts? ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 3 Wed Jan 06, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 00:11 EST > Live fast, love hard, die young..... Do you use seat belts? The rest of it is, "and leave a beautiful memory." Ken ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 4 Wed Jan 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:54 EST Ron, I have never run my ICD software without write-verify on. My data is too important. (I know, I should be saying "my data ARE too important, but that makes me sound like a stuffed shirt...) Al ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 5 Wed Jan 06, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 05:50 EDT > Live fast, love hard, die young..... Do you use seat belts? >The rest of it is, "and leave a beautiful memory." >Ken More likely, leave a mangled body! -------- >I have never run my ICD software without write-verify on. My data is too >important. (I know, I should be saying "my data ARE too important, but >that makes me sound like a stuffed shirt...) Yeah, mine 'are' too. Grin. If I didn't care if I got it saved correctly, I would use cassette.. GRIN. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 6 Wed Jan 06, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:00 EST >I have never run my ICD software without write-verify on. My data is too >important. (I know, I should be saying "my data ARE too important, but that >makes me sound like a stuffed shirt...) Al, Only to the illiterate. "Data is" (and "this data") grates, just as "People is too important" would. You can always change the construction, and say you hate to lose data, or something of that sort. No, no, Ron. The title of the old country-western song was "Live fast, love hard, die young, and leave a beautiful memory." DO wear your seatbelt and DON'T pull a Magic Johnson. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 7 Wed Jan 06, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 22:31 EST Ok, now that I've made sure my ICD Write-Verify is ON, is there any other "write verify" somewhere else that could be OFF and over-riding that one? (See? I'm paranoid!) -Gerry ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 8 Thu Jan 07, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 00:12 EDT >Only to the illiterate. "Data is" (and "this data") grates, just as >"People Huh? Data is an android on ST:TNG. Don't you guys know nuthin'? Grin. ---------- Gerry, Yes, several of the PD/Shareware .ACCs that substitute for the Atari Control Panel, or Xcontrol, will turn write verify on, or off, if you have them configured that way. If you are using one of the alternative control panels, check it to make sure. Also, check the ICD booter configuration as it is set for no write verify as you uncompress it! ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 9 Thu Jan 07, 1993 C.MASON10 [Mad Dog] at 01:18 EST All, At the risk of having my tally wacker paddled by the topic cops, my Random House College Dictionary declares data a plural of datum. In the definition of datum is a sample phrase which reads, "Additional data _is_ available from the president of the firm." Also, "These data represent the results of our analyses." Additionally, data is considered datum and is defined as, "An individual fact, statistic, or piece of information or a group or body of facts, information, statistics, or the like, either historical or derived by calculation or experimentation." It would appear the word may be used as singular or plural. Mad Dog ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 10 Thu Jan 07, 1993 ORA.TECH at 02:56 EST The write with verify feature of some HD drivers is usually implemented using the SCSI Write and Verify command (op code 0x2e) which is a 10 byte SCSI command rather than the standard 6 byte write command(opcode 0xa). Not all drives/controllers implement this command. I always use write with verify but then I'm paranoid. The difference in drive performance with today's faster drives is generally negligable. An excellent point was made a few messages back in that there is a limit to the ability of ANY data recovery program,Diamond Edge or otherwise, to fix severely damaged disks. We have attempted to put th most powerful and comprehensive recovery methods into DE however: THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR A VALID UP TO DATE HARD DISK BACKUP! The inability to save SCSI info files to floppy has been verified. Untill the next update you will have to save the to hard disk and then copy them over. Also the clarity of some of the error messages is being upgraded as well as an appendix has been added to the next revision of the manual listing all of DE's error messages and there meanings as well as all of GEMDOSand TOS error messages. Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 11 Thu Jan 07, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:42 EST I do indeed hate to lose data. They're too important. Uh oh... Al ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 12 Thu Jan 07, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:36 EST The word "data" is commonly used both as singular and plural, although datum is the singular form in Latin. In the world of education, I find that those in the "hard" sciences (chemistry, physics, biology, geology) generally use data as a plural, while those in other areas (including EdDs and PhDs in those areas) tend to use it either way. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 13 Thu Jan 07, 1993 TQUINN [Terry~Sysop] at 12:30 EST The first 200 messages in this topic have been archived and are available in Library 13 as File # 27250 (DIEDGE_1.ARC). This archive covers the period between October 27, 1992 and January 7, 1993. Terry Quinn ST RT Sysop and BBS Janitor ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 14 Thu Jan 07, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 21:33 EST RON -- Cripes. Now I'm even MORE paranoid. I'm using XCONTROL -- how do I turn verify on from that?? Tonight I ran a program called SYS_INFO. Among other things, it said, "System verify is off." Is that the same as write verify? THEN: > alternative control panels, check it to make sure. Also, check the > ICD booter configuration as it is set for no write verify as you > uncompress it! I'm using 5.6.3 simply because it seems to be stable and because no one's ever given me a good reason to get a later version (the whole 6.x.x series seems to be buggy from what I've read). Am I wrong to use this version? -Gerry ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 15 Thu Jan 07, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:50 EDT Gerry, I never noticed the 'system verify' in SYS-Info. There IS a line for Write Verify, though. I would assume that ICD has SOME reason for having issued updates of the Booter. I do know that some features have been added, such as the ability to load the clock time without a seperate program, but you would have to check the ICD RT for details. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 16 Fri Jan 08, 1993 ORA.TECH at 20:27 EST Gerry, 5.6.3 is a stable version of the ICD driver and there is nothinp wrong with using it unless your need LINK or IDE support. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 17 Fri Jan 08, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 22:53 EST >NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:50 EDT > >Gerry, > I never noticed the 'system verify' in SYS-Info. There IS a line > for Write Verify, though. Maybe I have an older version, Ron, (I've got 1.02), but I just ran it and checked. Text says "System verify is off." Nothing about "write verify." But assuming that my "system verify" is supposed to be "write verify," do I need to worry about it, even if ICD booter is set to "verify on"? Bob -- Thanks for the info! -Gerry ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 18 Fri Jan 08, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:53 EDT >Maybe I have an older version, Ron, (I've got 1.02), but I just ran it >and checked. Text says "System verify is off." Nothing about "write >verify." YIKES! My version of sysinfo is 8.23! Methinks you need to download the latest version from the software library. Then go to the disk info screen and look at the write verify flag (middle of the right column). ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 19 Sat Jan 09, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 19:05 EST I just noticed in DE 1.02 that when I close the program's window and then decide to exit the program (either ctrl-Q, click on the window close gadget or the menu entry), the window I was last in reappears briefly and then the entire program quits. TOS 2.06/STe ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 20 Sat Jan 09, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 21:14 EST Holy buckets, Ron... 8.23??? I'll go get the "newer" one right away. Thanks again! -Gerry ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 21 Thu Jan 14, 1993 ORA.TECH at 19:22 EST Yea Bob, The extra window opening if you quit with th eqindow closed has been eliminated in the development version. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 22 Tue Jan 19, 1993 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 20:32 EST I've had Diamond Edge ever since it came out, but I've never gotten MIRROR figured out. I have it set to mirror drives Once A Day, but the file date on my MIRROR files is back in October. Is there some kind of Auto folder program that needs to be set up? I configured the Mirror option and the hard drive whirred some, but Edge says "Unable to complete requested operation" Live And Direct [9:44 PM-18/Jan/93], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 23 Wed Jan 20, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ@EuroGames] at 01:53 EST Rod - DMIRROR.PRG _should_ be in your AUTO folder. Is it? Your post seemed to imply that it might not be. < And you must mirror your hard drive wiiiiithh.....a HERRING!!! > - T.J. @ Atari Advantage ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 24 Wed Jan 20, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:05 EST >< And you must mirror your hard drive wiiiiithh.....a HERRING!!! >? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 25 Wed Jan 20, 1993 T.GIRSCH [TJ@EuroGames] at 23:46 EST Ken - Re: A herring... Sorry, obscure reference to Monty Python and the Holy Grail. I sometimes forget where I am (i.e. NOT in CAT 12). I'll try to refrain from now on. < Run Away! > - T.J. P.S. For future reference, if a quote is enclosed in < > then it's probably a movie quote. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 26 Thu Jan 21, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 00:16 EST >T.GIRSCH [TJ@EuroGames] at 01:53 EST >< And you must mirror your hard drive wiiiiithh.....a HERRING!!! > Hmmm.... I thought it was a SHRUBBERY! Maybe that's where I'm going wrong! (Iky iky iky p-tang!) -Gerry ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 27 Thu Jan 21, 1993 ORA.TECH at 00:37 EST Rod, Diamond Mirror is an auto folder program and needs to be put there for the automatic artchiving to function. Noooooooo. Herrings won't work... But an unladden European Swallow might! Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 28 Sun Jan 24, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 13:19 EST Just wanted to let you guys at ORA know that you have another happy camper out here. Diamond Edge just recovered an Aladdin configuration file that was lost in a crash -- the file showed up as lost clusters and I was lucky enough to have all the data in the right order in contiguous clusters. I would _not_ have liked to try to reproduce that configuration file. |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 29 Sun Jan 24, 1993 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 13:57 EST TJ: I just went to check and DMIRROR is in my AUTO folder, but as a .PRX. I'll change that. Can the herring be pickled? BOB: AHHHH! A EUROPEAN Swallow! I could've sworn the doc's said African. Obviously, since it works for TJ, a herring is a substitute for European swallows. =-) Live And Direct [1:38 AM-24/Jan/93], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 30 Sun Jan 24, 1993 R.KOHORN [RON] at 16:22 EST I have just started to use Diamond edge and have already optimized my hard drives. Just for the fun of it I tried to fix some floppies that when used put the statment "Data on Disc A may be damaged". When I run Medic on these, the same statement came up. With another disk, the disk was "fixed" but then still unusable. What am I doing wrong? ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 31 Sun Jan 24, 1993 S.LAPHAM1 [Scott L.] at 23:22 EST What'd you expect, the SPANISH INQUISITION!?!? Scott (all at once now...) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 32 Mon Jan 25, 1993 ORA.TECH at 23:26 EST No one expects the Spanish Inquisition! Oooohhhhh noooooo Not the comfy chair.......... Ron, The "Data May Be Unusable" message on floppies is often a result of a mismatch between the data in a sector and the checksum for the sector stored on the disk. Diamond Edge will correct disk structure problems on floppy disks, but does not contain the code(yet) necessary to read/write raw floppy tracks necessary to repair damaged checksums in special places normally not accessable so the floppy can be read by the OS. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 33 Tue Jan 26, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 23:07 EST >>...does not yet contain the code... What are your plans for the future of that code, Bob? |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 34 Tue Jan 26, 1993 R.JANSSEN1 [DAMIAN] at 23:35 EST Diamond edge works great! I found that reciting the following cantation speeds up the optimization process: Heye es o doniem, domahey es requiem... SMACK! (sp?) 'Dig you later, \\\\ o-o Damian. ~ (R.JANSSEN1) \_/ [X] ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 35 Wed Jan 27, 1993 R.DEAN3 [GUNNER] at 10:48 EST Bob; I just got my Freedom Floptical Drive from PMC and have run into a problem using Edge with it. If I partition the disk in "Standard" partitions (ST/DOS etc) I get the message "Unrecognized Boot Sector, unable to continue operation" when I try to read the disk. If I partition using the Atari Tos 1.0, 1.2 partitions, Edge works fine. I am using version 1.1 of Edge and of course the ICD Link software. Have other people had this problem? Is this being corrected in an upcomeing patch to Edge? I hope so, I run 20 Meg partition backups with DBII and would like to verify their integrity with Edge... Bob ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 36 Thu Jan 28, 1993 ORA.TECH at 22:43 EST We may add raw track physical editing/repair of floppies at a later time. Got DB3 to finish first. Bob - You need to download file #26904 to patch Edge to V1.02 to get it to recognize the "platform independent" floptical format. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 37 Thu Feb 11, 1993 G.ANDERSON at 20:04 EST Just ran my first 'Optimize' on my hard drive.. congrats!!!! everything worked perfectly! I'll be making a regular habit of this, optimize after each backup. Gregg ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 38 Fri Feb 12, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:04 EST Bob, I have Mirror set for weekly. You know about what happened when the year changed. Now a similar situation has occurred. It automatically switched from weekly to monthly, and I now see that the next event will occur in 27 days. (I don't know if that number is counting down.) Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 39 Fri Feb 12, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 21:08 EST I just ran into a MAJOR problem and I need some help, major help!! When I ran the medic feature on my D partition, it told me I had errors so I told Edge to fix them. I ended up with my entire D:\wp\ folder contents disappearing from my D partition -- that's my entire WordPerfect set of files. A file called LOSTCLUS.DAT (24 megabytes in size) is now on the D partition and there is a file called MEDIC_D.ERR on my floppy A that says: D:\wp invalid directory D:\2979 Lost Clusters I mean, my entire set of WordPerfect files are totally gone, and even the folder that held them (D:\wp\) is gone. The other folders on my D partition are still there. Is there a way to RESTORE my files from either the LOSTCLUS.DAT or the MEDIC_D.ERR files? I truly hope so or else I am in big trouble. I've got a backup (but it's not current) and I just spent days creating files in that folder. PLEASE HELP!!! - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Friday, February 12, 1993 5:42 pm ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 40 Fri Feb 12, 1993 G.LEONE [Gerry] at 22:52 EST Ken -- Funny, same thing happened to me. One day in February I looked up and it was saying "27 days until next update." I ran the program directly, saved the config again, and it cleared up. -Gerry ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 41 Sat Feb 13, 1993 JLHOFFMAN [John Hoffman] at 02:05 EST Jason, I've had this happen to me twice now! The second time I got an error indicating I had an invalid cluster I exited edge and copied the directory to another directory. This worked without an error. The I let edge fix things and sure enough the directory was nuked and I had a large lostclus.dat file. Fortunately this time I had copied all the files into another directory which I just copied back to a directory with the original name. The first time I had this happen was on the directory I had a game amberstar stored in. I spent 5-10 hours trying to piece my files back together to know avail. The real problem is that all your data is in one large file called lostclus.dat. When edge did this it gathered up all the sectors used in all the files and directory structures and rewrote the FAT table to link all these pieces into one large file. The FAT table contains the information necessary to chain groups of sectors together and identify used sectors from free sectors. So you have lost all that critical information. Without knowing how edge goes about doing this it will be virtually impossable to easily reconstruct your disk. Now if you are real desparate and you are prepared to totally trash you Hard Disk to retrieve any and all data and are quite technical. You might be able to recover some information off the disk. What you need is a sector editor. I would recommend KnifeST. An operational version of it was released on one of the cover disks of one of the european mags a while back or it can be bought from most Atari specialty stores. Here are some ideas, If you have a recent copy of your fat table you might consider restoring it. This will put the FAT structure back in the state it was at some point earlier. What this will do is make it so that files that were good when you created the FAT and haven't changed or been deleted after the FAT was backed up will have valid FATs. The next step would be to undelete the directory entry in the parent directory to the one that was deleted. Again this requires a good sector editor and good knowledge of directory structures. I've done it successfully but it can be hairy. Another thought might be that the FAT chains that were originally intact might still be intact within the lost cluster file. (ie if file a had three parts and file b had 4 parts it might have been easier for edge to create the lostclus file by taking the file a chain and attaching the file b chain on the end.) You should be able to determine if this is the case by opening the file with a sector editor or even an editor like edhak. Then look for identifiable information and see if it is all together or scattered around. If the data is contiguous you might be able use an editor to restore some of the data you lost. If you understand all this you might want to try some of this stuff. If not I would forget it and restore from you backup and chalk it up to experience. There isn't any easy way to restore your lost data that I know and hacking the sectors will be very time consuming and unless you really know what your doing you'll probably be unable to get any of your data and will most certainly totally trash you current disk structure. "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!" I submitted a list of suggestions reguarding this operation of edge. I guess this is on the list of things that will be fixed in the next version.... So everyone, if Edge says you have an invalid directory don't let it fix it until you've tried to copy as much of the information onto another disk partition or floppies. Because in my experience Edge will invariably remove the directory and everything it contains! John ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 42 Sat Feb 13, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 02:47 EST John, I appreciate your thorough explanation of how Edge mucked up my WordPerfect folder and all its contents. Thanks for taking the time to explain. The news you are sharing is not good!! I am royally bummed out to have lost all this data and, even though I have a backup, since it's not totally up to date, I'm not sure what valuable stuff I've lost. I've already identified some documents that I am going to have to literally type over from scratch. If anyone else can shed some light, offer other alternatives, I am very open to hearing it. I am just blown away that this has occurred, and that all I'm now left with is a 24 meg sized super-file that has about 2000 separate files merged into it! - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Friday, February 12, 1993 11:47 pm ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 43 Sat Feb 13, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:42 EST Jason, I wouldn't know what to do with that huge file, but my condolences on your loss. Although that kind of thing hasn't happened to me with Edge, I remember the feeling from a few years ago. That's why I do an incremental backup with Diamond Back every day. Since the universe unfolds the way it does, I'm pretty sure I'll never need the backup - until the day I stop doing it. gnox ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 44 Sat Feb 13, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 10:47 EST Jason, I am afraid that the best you can get from this is a learing experience. As gnox suggested, incremental backups would be a good idea, and they take only a short time. Another idea would be the 'mirror' ability of Diamond Edge. I would also change the structure of the WP directory so that you have more files distributed over several disks, that is not all the eggs in one basket. Another suggestion is DON'T USE THE WP TIMED BACKUP. I have heard more people complain about trashed disks who use it than any other feature. I NEVER use it, and have never had that kind of problem related to WP. The problem is that a program like STalker, running as a .ACC can change the path while the auto-backup is working... Ugly situation. Sorry that all of that doesn't help with your files, but we just went through something quite like that on the mainframe at work last night. One of the drives 'went south' and the last full backup was a week old, and we spent all night figuring out how to recover... Sigh. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 45 Sat Feb 13, 1993 J.KUDRON [Jim~ST Sysop] at 11:00 EST Jason, Talk about deja vu! I had my LDW folder "disappear" the same way about two weeks ago. I don't know how to restore your lost files. I had a recent back- up, so I zeroed the partition, and restored the files. I hope that when Bob returns, he can address this. Jim Kudron 13Feb93 10:54:30 ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 46 Sat Feb 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:04 EST Jason, I'm sorry to hear of your problem. It's one I have suffered through many times over the years, on PCs and Macs as well as Ataris. The solution -- the next time you do it -- is to make sure you have just done a backup first. That doesn't help right now, and I am sure you don't need any more advice, but it is what you need to do from now on. Al ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 48 Sat Feb 13, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 11:22 EST Jason, If the file contains some ascii (your docs), then with a program to split the LARGE file into smaller ones, couldn't you load it into a word processor and cut & paste some of the info? You might not loose as much. I could do another version of BREAKUP that allowed you to select the destination drive to write the split files to. That way you could split the large file into smaller ones and manage it. This is assuming some of the information is in ascii format. Maybe BOB will change it to save the lost clusters to seperate files (like some of the other disk utilities) instead of one large file. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 49 Sat Feb 13, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 23:54 EST Jason, your experience was similar to what happened to me when I interrupted an optimize in progress, then told medic to fix the damage. Only my lostclus.dat was only 8 megs. The only way you can resolve that data back into individual files is to load it into an editor, block the text that belongs together, and save it as a file. And hope that you didn't have many fragmented files. How do you load a 24 meg file into an editor, you say? Well, I think WP will do it if you direct the virtual directory to a drive with that much room on it. Otherwise you can look for a utility called "splitter" which divides a file into a user-specified number of equal portions. Let me know if you can't find it, and I'll upload it. Good luck. You'll need it. |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 50 Sun Feb 14, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 00:36 EST Edhak will work too. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 51 Sun Feb 14, 1993 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 08:34 EST Jason, Sorry to hear about your recent loss. As I posted here earlier, Word Perfect nuked my D:\ partition FAT tables a while back and the only way that I was able to recover was to totally delete all of the files contained on D:\ and restore from a 7-day old backup. Even Diamond Edge has its limits and that's when Diamond Back II becomes handy. I believe the cause of my misfortune was the enabling of Word Perfect's autosave feature and I have since turned it off. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 52 Sun Feb 14, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 15:44 EST Gnox, Ron, Jim, Al, and Wayne -- thanks for your comforting words and suggestions regarding my loss of my WordPerfect folder. I use the word "loss" because what I'm learning from your input is that the files are bye-bye even though they've all been "transformed" into one large whole. Sounds like a mystical lesson of some sort: from the many into the one. But this kind of "union" I don't really need!! So I've learned some good lessons from this -- primarily to do my incremental backups even more often, like the end of each day at a minimum. Fortunately, I had just done an incremental on February 5th, so that I only lost a week's worth of stuff, and most of the lost stuff I had as hard copies -- thank heavens. They can be retyped. All my lost files are in WordPerfect format, not acsii, so the idea of using a text editor to cut and paste won't work. So now I've got this huge 24 meg file that has all the WordPerfect files in it. My current dilemma is this: when I went to do a new incremental onto my Syquest drive, Diamond Back naturally tried to include this new 24 meg file as part of the incremental backup, and there's not enough room on the Syquest for it, along with the other "regular" incremental stuff. So I'm tempted to just erase this 24 meg monster, but I thought I'd check with you all first about the wisdom of doing this. As far as I can see, there's not much hope of retrieving anything from the monster file so I don't see much use in keeping it, especially since it takes up so much room and is interfering with my incremental backup from that partition. Any thoughts on this? Also, I'm fascinated by the remarks about the auto-save (auto-backup) feature in WordPerfect causing problems. I know it has been a weird combination when I use certain screensavers via Warp9's Extend-O-Save (WordPerfect docs bleed through the screensaver once the Autosave has kicked in and saved the doc). But I hadn't heard of really serious troubles. Has anybody else run into this or heard of serious difficulties with WordPerfect's autobackup feature? - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Sunday, February 14, 1993 12:25 pm ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 53 Sun Feb 14, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 19:03 EST Bob, thanks for your tip on changing the virtual directory and loading the 24 meg monster file into it. I noticed I have 35 megs free on my E partition so I told WordPerfect to use the E:\wp path for the virtual. (I added a WP folder to E). But when I re-enter WP and tell WP to retrieve a file (the lostclus.dat file), WP gives me a message that there is insufficient virtual directory space, even though the monster file is 24 megs and I've got 35 megs on that drive. Am I retrieving the file incorrectly? Or what? - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Sunday, February 14, 1993 1:09 pm ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 54 Mon Feb 15, 1993 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 03:32 EST Bob, May I add my own sympathy on the death of your grandmother? Bill ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 55 Mon Feb 15, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:39 EST Jason, No! Don't throw away that file! > All my lost files are in WordPerfect format, not acsii, so the idea > of using a text editor to cut and paste won't work. Not just any text editor, but EdHak _will_ do the job. It will mean lots of work sorting things out because the order will be all scrambled, but the differences between WP format and ASCII text are nothing that EdHak can't handle with a few search-and-replaces. In your position, I would seriously consider buying EdHak. (But then I recommend EdHak to Atarians in _any_ position!) gnox ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 56 Mon Feb 15, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 19:40 EST Jason Ditto don't do it. I had a lightning strike a while back. I then Zeroed my disk before I realized I could have used EdHak. Un-plug all stuff during a storm even if you have protection. This strike by-passed everything while I was working on it. Wonder I didn't get hit with a jolt. KenO. :) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 57 Mon Feb 15, 1993 AEO.3 [Lyre] at 21:16 EST Bob, A suggestion for the next version of Diamond Edge. How about a hot key to force the hard disk be re-checked. I have been cleaning out my hard drive over the weekend and went into Edge in order to de-frag and optimize. After starting the program and getting the frag map for partition H, I realized that I had forgotten to delete a folder. Using MaxiFile I deleted it, returned to DE and their was no change in the display. I changed to Info and then back to Frag - but the frag map did not get updated. It retained the display prior to the folder deletion. Now, for some users they are not going to need and/or want the display updated each and every time. But if their was some means of forcing an update, that would satisfy the needs of others. Just an idea. Lyre 6:15 pm, February 15, 1993 ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 58 Mon Feb 15, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:22 EST Lyre, In the demo, it had a Force Media Change selection under one of the drop down menus. This should do what you are asking. Force Media Change in other programs forces the program to re-read the disk info so I assume DE would do this also. I don't remember if it had a key-combo for that selection or not. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 59 Tue Feb 16, 1993 ORA.TECH at 02:02 EST ----------------Diamond Edge Upgrade Announcement--------------- A patch file has just been uploaded to the ST Library that will upgrade Diamond Edge V1.02 to V1.03. Enhancements include saving lost cluster chains as individual files rather than a single LOSTCLUS.DAT file and better large screen monitor support. The primary reason for the upgrade is is to fix a bug in the Disk Medic when attempting to fix a certain kind of severe disk directory corruption. If the Disk Medic V1.02 or earlier reports thousands of duplicate files and corrupted directory entries then 1) You have some disk severe directory corruption 2) The corruption is generally fixable and 3) attempting to fix it with V1.02 or earlier may lead to additional corruption. V1.03 fixes the bug and allows correct recovery of the corrupted disk. Although very rare in occurance, the kind of disk directory corruption that induces the bug does sometimes happen. This upgrade should be considered essential. Best regards, Bob Luneski ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 60 Tue Feb 16, 1993 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 02:43 EST Lyre, Wayne You can hit Alt-M for a forced media change. - Mel ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 61 Tue Feb 16, 1993 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 22:28 EST Thank you, Bob. mike.k ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 62 Wed Feb 17, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 00:30 EST Gnox and KenO. -- I do have EdHak, but I am not sure how I can load a 24 meg file into it!! I have a TT with 4 meg TT ram and 4 meg ST ram, and a big hard disk as well. How do I load such a monster file. I tried using Splitter.prg but it was taking so very long, it was ridiculous, to split the big file into 4 parts. - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Monday, February 15, 1993 8:17 pm ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 63 Wed Feb 17, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 05:32 EST Jason, EdHak will load parts of the file as you scroll through it. You don't have to do anything, it takes care of it all. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 64 Wed Feb 17, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:33 EST Jason, You need to RTFM. EdHak will use virtual memory for you. Even with a 4K memory EdHak can edit a 24 meg file. I would use a memory in EdHak large enough to hold a whole WP file plus as it will make the job easier. Remember to reboot if you change the default memory buffer. In general EdHak handling of extra large files is seamless. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 65 Wed Feb 17, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:57 EST Jason, You don't have to load the whole file into it - that's the beauty of EdHak! Just search on some string that you know is in a file that you hadn't backed up and it will load that part of the monster file, and you can then save blocks into separate files. Or if you don't know what strings you're looking for, you can look through the file one buffer-full at a time. (Of course that's going to take a while!) Check the manual p.22 ff. gnox ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 66 Wed Feb 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:44 EST Jason, EdHack takes the file in manageable pieces. Try it. Al ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 67 Thu Feb 18, 1993 G.KICHOK [Gerry K] at 00:13 EST ORA, To fix a problem on a hard disk partition does the EDGE.PRG or preferences for saving validation files need to be on a different partition. I.E., While running C:\EDGE\EDGE.PRG with the VALIDATION files specified to save to C:\EDGE\, I find a lost cluster on drive C, the MEDIC_C.ERR is written to C:\EDGE\MEDIC_C.ERR. This in turn creates more lost clusters on drive C, (unless the drive is optimized afterwards). Right????, or is there some thing else wrong with drive C that is not being detected. For example I have found a file that had a BAD START using HD Sentry from Beckemeyer Development Systems, that Diamond Edge did not find. Gerry K. - HB0-AUG Librarian (Hamilton-Burlington Oakville Atari User Group Librarian) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 68 Thu Feb 18, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:45 EST With all the EdHak/Diamond users maybe Clearthinking and Oregon should trade mailing list. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 69 Thu Feb 18, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:02 EST Bob, I haven't dl'd the upgrade yet, but I'm _still_ having a couple consistent, recurring problems with v1.02: 1) When I use Edge to mark bad sectors, everything seems to go fine, and the marked sectors are always ignored by every program I use, EXCEPT EDGE! If I use Edge to recheck for bad sectors, it tells me the SAME sectors _still_ need to be fixed! Maybe this is relaed to... 2) When I optimize my partitions, I _ALWAYS_ get a "Data on drive may be damaged..." alert at sector _1113_! The first couple times, it only happened on my C and D partitions, but not E and F. The last time, it happened on C, D, and E! When the alert comes up, I always hit "retry" 2 or 3 times, but the alert always comes back, so I hit cancel, which brings up Edge's "Retry/Continue" dialog; here I always hit "Retry", and I then end up back at the "Data may be damaged..." alert - which will then keep coming back if I hit "Retry", so I hit "Cancel". At this point, either the optimize continues after a bit of a pause, or Edge's "Retry/Continue" dialog comes up again. This time, I hit "Continue", which usually _brings_back_ the "Data may be damaged..." alert! Whereupon I hit "Cancel", wait a while (though sometimes the alert keeps coming back a few times), and eventually the optimize continues... The fact that it's ALWAYS sector 1113, no matter which partition is being optimized, leads me to believe it's probably NOT an actual "bad sector", but I don't really know what's going on. Can you shed any light on this? It is the ONLY problem I've ever had with Edge! Thanks! -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 70 Fri Feb 19, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:02 EST Bob, Many thanks for the Edge update. It's good to know that monster files like Jason's won't happen any more, and the window interface does look much better on the big monitor - you can see everything at once! :) (The All Info table still has no headings, though.) gnox ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 71 Fri Feb 19, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 21:39 EST A note to anyone getting errors trying to upgrade your copy of Diamond Edge. I found that I had to turn the fastload bit back on, or the patch program would return a CRC error. I keep the fastload bit off on all my programs so Warp 9 can handle fastloading. __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 72 Sat Feb 20, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 02:25 EST Chuck- Have DE do a "Map Bad Sectors" check of the drive in question. There are three options you have, 2 being non-destructive and one destructive (you lose everything), but it is also the most accurate. Look in the manual, this is something I don't do much of (fortunately) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 73 Sat Feb 20, 1993 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 03:10 EST Bob, Thank you for the Diamond Edge v1.03 update file. I wonder if I had had v1.03 versus the v1.02 that I used when I had my Word Perfect FAT trashing a few weeks back if I could have avoided some of the problems caused by hundreds of trashed files having exacting the same name and Edge insisting on having me rename them, one by one by one ... Hopefully, I won't have that situation happen to me again any time soon. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 74 Sat Feb 20, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 05:15 EST Bob M., Thanks, but I mentioned in my previous message that I was having odd problems mapping bad sectors, too (though I referred to it as "marking" bad sectors - I'm used to the terminology used by Atari's HDX utilities, but it's the same thing) - specifically, the mapping process in Edge NEVER recognizes the sectors which it has already "mapped bad", and tells me the same sectors need to be fixed every time I run it! P.S. I dl'd the patch and updated Edge, so as soon as I get a chance to try optimizing again, I'll report my results here... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 75 Sat Feb 20, 1993 P.LONG [PB] at 12:38 EST Just a note about WP and its propensity for doing strange things with its temp files, and backup files. I have found the same over the years that I have used it, and I used to have to go in with TuneUp and find all the orphan files, and other things, and get rid of them. The solution I came up with was to use CodeRam ram disk, and set WP to send all the temp files and backup files there. I can also use this M: drive for other things as well, but it means that I don't have WP messing around with my hard drive. Since I did that, I have not had any problems at all in that line. I downloaded 102>103, and everything went fine, and seems to work well. Thanks for the upgrade Patrick [PB] Long ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 76 Sun Feb 21, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:12 EST I second what Patrick said. I've never had a problem with WP mangling my hard drive in the 4 years I've been using it, and I've always used a ramdisk for the virtual directory. (Always used autosave, too.) gnox ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 77 Sun Feb 21, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 12:43 EST I've never had a problem with the WP timed backup feature, and it's saved by bacon more than once. I wonder if there isn't some interference with another program happening? |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 78 Sun Feb 21, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 13:56 EST >I second what Patrick said. I've never had a problem with WP mangling my >hard drive in the 4 years I've been using it, and I've always used a ramdisk >for the virtual directory. (Always used autosave, too.) I have never had a problem with WP mangling files either, but then I have NEVER used the autosave feature. I consider it a BAD idea, and risky, at best. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 79 Sun Feb 21, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 14:06 EST I use WP and autosave to the hard drive--no problems. Autosave is a pain but it's saved my bacon a couple of times. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 80 Sun Feb 21, 1993 ORA.TECH at 14:17 EST Gerry, If you suspect that the disk you are saving the error files to has corruption, then you should change th path to save valid files to another drive or floppy through the preferences dialog. Writing to a corrupted disk can cause additional problems. Chuck, Yes Diamond Edge Always checks the entire disk for bad sectors, even those already marked bad. Why?? Do an image copy from one disk to another. The source has bad sectors, the destination does not. The "BAD" sectors remain in the FAT frmoteh image copy and are wasting disk space on teh destination. The location reported in the error message from your read error, is the location in the code, not on your disk. This is used to determine what area of the code the program was in when it discovered the disk error. You should definately do a bad sector map on your disk, examinf your cabling and make sure no power cables are on top of DMA cables. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 81 Sun Feb 21, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 15:22 EST >bacon more than once. I wonder if there isn't some interference with another >program happening? Very likely. Any .ACC that changes the current directory, for instance. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 82 Sun Feb 21, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:23 EST I haven't used WP a whole lot, but I've always used autosave and never had a problem. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 83 Sun Feb 21, 1993 P.LONG [PB] at 21:57 EST I'm not a programmer, and don't really know what's going on inside the "box", but I have noticed that WP is not really on speaking terms with accessories. For instance, if I access CAL63 from within WP, I'm asking for trouble. I have just learned that I can't do that with impunity. I have found autosave a slight help; but mostly because it warns me when I have not saved for 5 minutes (that's what I set it for), and I have a macro (ALT-S) that does a save of the current document. I'm sure that has been a life saver, and also has helped develop the good habit of saving frequently. Patrick [PB] ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 84 Mon Feb 22, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:45 EST Ron, An ACC that changes the current directory wouldn't affect WP's autosave because it doesn't use the current directory for that; it uses the path designated with WPSTART. There may well be something interfering though. Patrick, I don't understand why you save another copy of the current document whenever autosave does! Isn't that redundant? I wonder, maybe this thread should be moved to the WP topic? :) gnox ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 85 Mon Feb 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:56 EST We bought the latest version of WordPerfect so we'd have one that would run on my TT and my wife's 4-meg ST, and we both use the auto-save feature. It has never misbehaved. Al ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 86 Mon Feb 22, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 19:24 EST GNOX, Good idea, let's talk about Diamond Edge here. Thanks everyone. *******Brian********* Written on Monday 22 February 1993 at 08:05 p.m. AST ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 87 Tue Feb 23, 1993 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:10 EST Bob, Thanks for the explanation! But why, every time I optimize, does Edge tell me the SAME sectors need to be fixed? After they've been mapped bad, and/or fixed, and/or anything else Edge does to keep them from being written to or corrupting any data, do they still need to be fixed every time I optimize? Why do I get the "Data may be damaged"/"Retry - Continue" loop? My DMA cable path is clean, my connections are tight, the problem always occurs at the same point in the optimize process (based on the visual indications in the display) regardless of which partition I'm dealing with, partitions C and D DO have bad sectors (according to Edge) at roughly the same point in the display as where the optimize problems start occuring (although partition E doesn't - or didn't last time I mapped it), and I NEVER have any problems with corrupted files until AFTER I optimize a partition! And yes, I've tried it with NO accs or auto programs loaded, and got the same results. I'm not saying it has to be Edge's fault - this old ST251-1 drive may just be a bit freaky - but I wanted you to know what's going on in case there MAY be something akin to a minor bug scene in Edge, or something absolutely normal that I'm just failing to grasp. It's just rather annoying to have optimizations interrupted for several minutes worth of hitting return and clicking on cancel repeatedly... ...but then, I can't park my car on the south side of the parking garage at the post office, because the battery ALWAYS goes dead in the time it takes me to go in and check my box for mail - only the south side, though; the car ALWAYS starts if I park on the _north_ side...(8^})... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 88 Tue Feb 23, 1993 ORA.TECH at 23:52 EST Chuck - A Seagate 251 that with known and multiple bad sectors that is giving you a lot of "Data May be Damaged" messages(the operating system reporting a contoller error) is extremely unreliable and should never be used to store ANYTHING you cannot afford to loose. Seriously, 251's were flaky drives to begin with and yours is demopnstrated flaky behaviour and bad sectors, a single map bad pass is unlikely to find all of the flaky sectors. I would suggest that you set up and run 20-50 map bad passess overnight to feret all the bad ones out. Remember to turn ALL disk caching off when mapping bad sectors. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 89 Wed Feb 24, 1993 G.KICHOK [Gerry K] at 23:29 EST Thanks Bob, it seems only logical that you should not write anything to a corrupt partition, but yet I have done it several times when I found problems with drive C, and saved the error files to C:\EDGE\ . What my reasoning _WAS_ that the drive was being fixed at the time so it will be OKAY to save error files to it because they wouldn't write to a partition that was still corrupt. Maybe there can be a WARNING in the next version of Diamond Edge when saving ERROR Files, just to make it more user friendly, and a bit more idiot proof. Or maybe just a note in the readme file will do. Great product! Gerry K. - HB0-AUG Librarian (Hamilton-Burlington-Oakville Atari User Group Librarian) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 90 Thu Feb 25, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 02:22 EST Chuck, I had the same problem with a 44Meg Unit. I ended up replacing the cartridge and the drive. Everything works great now! Mine would map bad fine once but if I'd do it a second time it would map bad megs and megs either crashing or locking up. It also mapped the same sectors bad each time. Then it had bad sectors right on the Fat Table so drive G: would get wipped out if you put over about 2 megs of info on it. It was totally unsuable and got thrown in the trash. It's not worth the hassle. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 91 Thu Feb 25, 1993 P.LONG [PB] at 20:53 EST GNOX, Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Because of the problems I have had with WP in the past with lost clusters, and other things like that, I don't allow WP to do any of it's own saving of the _temp_ files to my hard drive. If it is doing an autosave, it does it to a temp file in the defined temp location. However, you can set a default to warn you just before it does its save. I have set the autosave feature to use the ram drive, and also all the other temp files, such as printer files and delete files. I also have a macro (ALT-S) that does a _real_ save of the current document to the proper folder; etc. This serves as a warning for me, and also for the rest of the family who may not be as careful with saving as I have become. Patrick ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 92 Thu Feb 25, 1993 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 23:51 EST Bob, Received your card in the mail today about the upgrade to Edge. I already have downloaded the patch, but wanted to thank you for the excellent service your show by taking the time (and $$) by doing something like this. One of the many reasons why I purchase Oregon Research products! Sincerly, John E. Gniewkowski Editor, GEnieLamp ST ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 93 Fri Feb 26, 1993 T.MCCOMB [=Tom=] at 00:01 EST I'd like to second Johns note of praise. Very commendable. -Tom McComb {11:59 pm} Thursday, February 25, 1993 ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 94 Fri Feb 26, 1993 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 01:55 EST Well, I guess I'll third John and Tom's kudos. :-) Also received the postcard today about the upgrade to 1.03. Thanks! - Mel ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 95 Fri Feb 26, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:27 EST Bob, Your postcard arrived yesterday, but I had already found the patch here, and upgraded. Thanks for the excellent support! Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 96 Sat Feb 27, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 02:02 EST Bob- I, too, got the postcard today. However, I wonder if ORA would be better served if, instead of sending out a postcard, it sent out E-mails to those that are online instead. Might save you some $. (Could also mention in the email what the file number is) This is providing you have a list of users who are on GEnie. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 97 Sat Feb 27, 1993 SFRT-ASST [Kenne@SFRT] at 02:43 EST I got my postcard yesterday, thanks. Ummm..... this may be heresy but NOT ALL computer users (including Atarists) are online. That's NOT online on ANY service. This place often will lead one to think everyone is online, but it's not close to being true. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 98 Sun Feb 28, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:15 EST Bob, I too d/l'd the upgrade patch. Thanks. I also agree with all those befor me who have sent kudos for your excellent support and products. Keep up the great work and stay well. regards to all, Matt ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 99 Mon Mar 01, 1993 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 00:51 EST Bob, I too had already used the patch to upgrade before I received your postcard. Thanks very much. Bill ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 100 Thu Mar 04, 1993 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 01:49 EST I got my postcard last week. A hearty thanks to you Bob. I don't know how many application programs I have bought over the years, sent in registration cards, and then never heard from the companies again. Your's is the first registration upgrade I have recieved in the mail. Ever. Pity I had already downloaded it from here. Live And Direct [12:44 AM-4/Mar/93], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection PS: Too bad I couldn't have gotten it two days before. DE reported 13000 or so illegal filenames during a test. I had to not ignore illegal names and have AutoFix delete them all. After doing that, there's still a file on my D: root directory that has no name, but a weird extension that can't be deleted through normal means, and DE doesn't see anything wrong during a test. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 101 Fri Mar 05, 1993 P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF] at 21:08 EST Rod, It may be that the file with the weird filename and extension left on your drive is the beginning of the assimilation of your hard drive. I would get rid of it ASAP by any means available.(Perhaps the Badger could help). Good luck. Paul ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 102 Fri Mar 05, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:19 EST If you can't rename or delete the file, you'll probably need to get a disk editor and rename it to something that will allow you to later delete it. I've had to do that before, myself... __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 104 Sat Mar 06, 1993 R.DEAN3 [GUNNER] at 17:35 EST P.LONG Let's not blame Word Perfect fro your drive problems. I was one of the first to buy WP Atari when it was released and have never had any file related problems with the program. Word Perfect does nothing strange at all with it's back up files, it uses them as documented. If you don't want orphaned files, try the F7 command to quit the program. The autosave feature only makes a temporary copy of the current file. When you quit the program the file is deleted. If you are locked out of the program, you can rename the temporary file and recover most of your work prior to rebooting WP. AUTOSAVE is highly recommended for all users. Using a RAM Disk to autosave to negates the very reason for having the feature... saving your data when you have to reboot your system. Gunner ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 105 Sat Mar 06, 1993 C.BORGES at 17:46 EST Another (late) note thanking you for the postcard notification. VERY much appreciated. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 106 Sat Mar 06, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 22:53 EST I didn't read the previous post re: the file you can't rename or delete, but I agree with what OUTRIDER said. I had a file like that once. I was able to use the rename option in Universal File Selector to rename it and then make sure it was set to read/write. It was a simple matter to delete it then. Hope this helps, Matt ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 107 Sun Mar 07, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 09:44 EST Gunner, Not all RAM disks are created equal. Some like CodeHead's have a life of their own. You can reboot and they will still be there. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 108 Sun Mar 07, 1993 GSCOTT-MOORE [Gerry] at 12:22 EST \\\--- Oregon Research: I rarely frequent the Atari RT these days but recently received a postcard indicating an DE upgrade available on GEnie. I REALLY appreciate that kind of customer service. Your products themselves are unrivaled, but it is customer service like this that will usually have me bestowing loyalty to products that are evolving, or maybe even aren't that fantastic. Thanks for such professional service. \\\--- Gerry ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 109 Mon Mar 08, 1993 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 02:30 EST Bob, I too had already used the patch to upgrade before I received your postcard. Thanks very much. Bill ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 110 Mon Mar 08, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:44 EST Hmmm, now I'm beginning to wonder why I haven't received that postcard! Is it possible they weren't sent to Canadian addresses? Usually crossing the border only means a couple extra days. (Not that the contents will be news to me ... I've already upgraded via GEnie also.) gnox ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 111 Mon Mar 08, 1993 J.WILSON103 [John] at 06:59 EST I guess I should add my note here...I entered the ST market in 1985 and I will state categorically that the card I received from Oregon Research is the FIRST of any software I have purchased. Thanks Bob, I do appreciate the card...I also got the upgrade here on-line. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ \/\/\/\/\/\/ John S. Wilson \/\/\/\/\/\/\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sunday, March 7, 19933:19:06 pm ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 112 Mon Mar 08, 1993 ORA.TECH at 22:08 EST We take our commitment to customer support very seriously. Thank you every one for you support also. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 113 Tue Mar 09, 1993 C.NICHOLLS [BILL] at 00:33 EST gnox I got my postcard in Vancouver about two weeks ago. Bill ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 114 Tue Mar 09, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:18 EST Bill, Hmmm - there shouldn't be _that_ much difference between Vancouver and Sudbury! But I'll keep watching for my postcard. Thanks. gnox ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 115 Tue Mar 09, 1993 ORA.TECH at 23:14 EST gnox - Hi there, our database indicates that a card was sent to you. Please e- mail me a confirmation of your address so I can verify our database is correct. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 116 Wed Mar 10, 1993 R.DEAN3 [GUNNER] at 23:49 EST Joe; I have yet to see a ram disk that will survive a cold boot or power outage... Gunner ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 117 Thu Mar 11, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:18 EST Gunner, Believe it or not, I have. That is the power outage. I have seen the screen go completely black, and when the power came back, and the computer rebooted, the ramdisk was still intact, with files. Now you know why they recommend you wait several seconds after turning off the power before turning it back on if you want to be SURE you get a clean ram system. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 118 Fri Mar 12, 1993 G.KICHOK [Gerry K] at 00:26 EST gnox, I got my card a few days after the release on GEnie, _VERY_ good support. Gerry K. - HBO-AUG Librarian (Hamilton-Burlington-Oakville Atari User Group Librarian) (of Ontario, Canada) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 119 Fri Mar 12, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:10 EST Gerry, No question, ORA support is excellent. I sent them my address in e-mail; the fault may have been mine. Or Canada Post's. Or maybe it's because I haven't shoveled the snow out of the driveway all winter and the letter carrier can't get to my mailbox. :) gnox ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 120 Fri Mar 12, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:01 EST The date finally counted down to where Mirror ran, and now it is running weekly as it should. gnox, As someone told me when I said I hadn't shoveled lately, "Nature put the snow there, and Nature can take it away". Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 121 Fri Mar 12, 1993 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 20:44 EST The file in question is a zero byte file called .eXX Normal methods won't delete it and Edge doesn't see anything wrong with it when I do a Test. TERRY: Good idea. I'll try that right now. Live And Direct [2:39 PM-6/Mar/93], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 122 Sat Mar 13, 1993 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 02:17 EST I was finally able to rename the file using a sector editor. Somehow part of an Aladdin text file made it's way into my directory. Renaming the file was not enough, as an entire paragraph was laid out in the directory before it. After deleting all the extraneous text, the bad file went away. BOB: BTW, any news on adding the capability to backup single Syquest to Syquest? Live And Direct [9:36 PM-12/Mar/93], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 123 Wed Mar 17, 1993 ORA.TECH at 00:24 EST Ken - You can just run Diamond Mirror from the desktop to reset the date. We are still working on why the Jan/Feb transition sent the date into never never land. Rod - .eXX should definately be flagged as an illegal filename. No main with only an extension will have to be added as a special case. Since there were no illegal characters, it passed the test. Best regards, Bob ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 124 Wed Mar 17, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 05:57 EST Bob, > Rod - .eXX should definately be flagged as an illegal filename. No main >with only an extension will have to be added as a special case. Since there >were no illegal characters, it passed the test. Isn't a space in the first character 'illegal'? ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 125 Wed Mar 17, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:49 EST Thanks, Bob. Mirror is on track, now. BTW, I'm still having to do a validation file manually for each partition. My default says it can't open the file it's supposed to, and then gives a two- bomb crash. Am I the only one with this? It's not much of a problem, except I have to remember to do it. All of the other buttons work as they should. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 126 Wed Mar 31, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:49 EST Bob, I just checked one of my partitions, and got the message there were 181 lost clusters. When I ran Medic, I got 2 lost cluster files in the root of that partition. Strangely, one had data that should have been in a different partition. Is it normal for 181 lost clusters to give only 2 files? Are the other files somewhere else? Is it possible for data from one partition to get into another, where it becomes a lost cluster? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 127 Wed Mar 31, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:09 EST I just checked out the Diamond Edge demo. I just found it on my Diamond Back disk! I ordered this program a few days ago and I can't wait to get it now. I guess I've really been prehistoric with Michtron's Toolkit. Diamond Edge seems to be a lot more than I expected. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 128 Wed Mar 31, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 21:37 EST Ken, assuming that you're using version 1.03 of Diamond Edge, it's very normal to only get two files from 181 lost clusters. The program simply collects all the clusters that are next to each other on the disk and calls them a file. The data that should have been on another partition could have been the remnants of when you moved the file from this partition to the other. |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 129 Fri Apr 02, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:00 EST Thanks, Robert Goff. That makes sense to me. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 130 Tue Apr 06, 1993 ORA.TECH at 01:04 EDT Ken - The number of lost cluster .dat files is variable and is totally dependent on the nature of the lost files. You ended up with two distinct identifiable fat chains that were converted into 2 lost cluster files. re: gettin stuff from other partions in a Lost file you could have copied it at some point and aborted the process or deleted it with ou remembering. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 131 Tue Apr 06, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:36 EDT Bob, Thanks for the info. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 132 Thu Apr 08, 1993 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 01:32 EST I've been having a terrible time with my Drive D and Aladdin. My messages keep getting screwed up, and I don't know how. I used Edge to see if there were any problems, and Edge found a series of bad filenames and inconsistant file sizes. I downloaded and used the new version that is supposed to fix that, but whenever I test drive D, Edge reports 1 bad cluster, and also says No Errors Found. How do I correct the bad cluster? I also did a Map Bad Sectors using the Read-Write-Read Non-Destructive for five passes and it found nothing wrong. Live And Direct [12:29 AM-8/Apr/93], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 133 Thu Apr 08, 1993 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 10:47 EDT Rod, That's normal for Edge to report X number of bad clusters and No Errors Found during a Medic pass. That just means that some sectors tested bad and the clusters were marked out in the FAT. I wouldn't mind seeing that report moved to the overall Disk Info screen so you don't have to do a Medic pass to see how many bad clusters there are on your hd. (Although Medic would still report bad clusters found in the current Medic pass.) - Mel ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 134 Fri Apr 09, 1993 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 00:10 EST MEL: -( That's normal for Edge to report X number of bad clusters )- -( and No Errors Found during a Medic pass. That just means that )- -( some sectors tested bad and the clusters were marked out in the )- -( FAT. I wouldn't mind seeing that report moved to the overall )- -( Disk Info screen so you don't have to do a Medic pass to see how )- -( many bad clusters there are on your hd. (Although Medic would )- -( still report bad clusters found in the current Medic pass.) )- That still doesn't solve my problem. Twice in the past three days, my messages from Aladdin have been utterly corrupted. While downloading, SENTINEL reports a disk error or full disk. I click on OK, and the pass continues. Afterwards, I see that my drive has over 1 meg free and there are bad filenames and inconsistent file sizes all over the place. Live And Direct [11:07 PM-8/Apr/93], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 135 Fri Apr 09, 1993 M.MOTOGAWA [MEL] at 01:36 EDT >I've been having a terrible time with my Drive D and Aladdin. My >messages keep getting screwed up, and I don't know how. I used Edge to >see if there were any problems, and Edge found a series of bad >filenames and inconsistant file sizes. I downloaded and used the new >version that is supposed to fix that, but whenever I test drive D, >Edge reports 1 bad cluster, and also says No Errors Found. How do I >correct the bad cluster? I also did a Map Bad Sectors using the >Read-Write-Read Non-Destructive for five passes and it found nothing >wrong. > Rod, I know, I have no idea what the problem with Aladdin is, but I was only trying to reply (in my last msg) to the portion of your message above, where you asked about what 1 bad cluster meant in the Medic results. Perhaps someone else who's experienced something similar while using Aladdin, or Bob, will chime in. I've never seen anything like that myself. - Mel ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 136 Fri Apr 09, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 13:22 EDT Three times so far I have lost information from my HD for no reason. Last Wednesday night was the second time I have lost a partition. Each of the three times the partition was the Aladdin partition. Also, numerous times in the past year and a half I get bad filenames. WHy? The only reason I know is that Aladdin does a lot of reading and writing to the drive. Therefore, I finally bought a program I needed but thought I couldn't afford; DE. I can't afford not having it [grin]. ~~~~Brian... Written on Friday 09 April 1993 at 01:07 p.m. AST ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 137 Fri Apr 09, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 20:45 EDT I have justy done the dumbest thing. I erased everything all of my drive C. Should I just replace the info with Diamond Back, unfortunatly by back up is two weeks old, or should I wait for Diamond Edge which should be comming in the mail any day. Most of the real important stuff is backed up but two weeks of Alladin is a lot of info to loose! Will Diamond Edge be able to restore a fully erased directory? ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 138 Fri Apr 09, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 21:21 EDT What version of ICD Booter are you guys running if you are? Are any of you running an SST/Turbo030? ICD says that 5.62 is the version to use with these types of accelerators as later versions will cuase problems. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 139 Fri Apr 09, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 21:45 EDT John, did you delete files or wipe your partition? Offhand, I would say you should just restore from your back up. If you want to retrieve some specific files or messages from GEnie, there are commands you can use, even with Aladdin. For example, if you wanted to read all the messages in this Category from April 1st, you would click GET MESSAGES in the RoundTable menu and choose SPECIFY. Then enter READ ALL DAT>040193 CAT=33 NOR. This will read all the messages in Category 33 since the first of the month. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 140 Fri Apr 09, 1993 ORA.TECH at 22:02 EDT Although I have heard of problems with Aladin corrupting drives, I have never personally experienced any problems(and I am a rather heavy user of Aladin) Because of the large number of systems that the program operates entirely stable on, my initial reaction would be for the people to first look at their software/hardware configurations before jumping to the conclusion that Aladin is the source of the problem. Because Aladin is a very disk intensive program, it may be bringing other conflicts/problems to the surface by stressing the IO system that would not ordinarily be noticed. If you are having problems with Aladin, I would first look at all of the basic diagnostics involved with Disk problems. e.g. trying w/o any auto/accs, making sure you have the latest versions of everything including your hard disk driver.......... Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 141 Fri Apr 09, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:33 EST Rod, A couple of questions. Which TOS version? Do you have a cache active? Is write verify ON? Is Poolfix installed if your TOS version needs it? Ron ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 142 Sat Apr 10, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 00:33 EST >>three times the partition was the Aladdin partition. Also, << >>numerous times in the past year and a half I get bad filenames. << >>WHy? The only reason I know is that Aladdin does a lot of reading << >>and writing to the drive. << You aren't, by chance, running with write verify off, are you? If so, try turning it ON. You might be developing a bad sector or two on the drive, and the write verify will catch the problem. >> << >>Although I have heard of problems with Aladin corrupting drives, I << >>have never personally experienced any problems(and I am a rather << >>heavy user of Aladin) << Bob, I am not only a heavy user of Aladdin, but as a beta-tester, I get to expose myself to the new versions, which tend to have bugs. I have NEVER had any data loss in the Aladdin partition. It DOES get fragemented, horribly, and it DOES work the HD pretty hard, but there is NO REASON that it should corrupt a partition. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 143 Sat Apr 10, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 01:18 EDT Let's do a little troubleshooting here. (Topic Police? Is it okay?) Brian, did your problems show up primarily in the Aladdin folder? Rod, do you have another partition you can move Aladdin to? If the problem moves with it, then we have more information. Have you tried running Aladdin without any TSR programs? What happens if you cancel the pass after getting the disk error? Do you have write-delay cache, and have you tried turning it off? |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 144 Sat Apr 10, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 03:21 EDT I agree with Bob, I have been running Aladdin now for 3 years and I have NEVER in all that time (and I am a HEAVY user of Aladdin) had it corrupt ANYTHING. I have NEVER lost anything due to Aladdin either. Now if Aladdin had a corrupted configuration file or something of that nature, then who knows what Aladdin (or any other program for that matter) may do. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 145 Sat Apr 10, 1993 R.MARTIN22 [NETWORK 23] at 03:37 EST BOB: -( Although I have heard of problems with Aladin corrupting drives, )- -( I have never personally experienced any problems(and I am a )- -( rather heavy user of Aladin) Because of the large number of )- -( systems that the program operates entirely stable on, my initial )- -( reaction would be for the people to first look at their )- -( software/hardware configurations before jumping to the conclusion )- -( that Aladin is the source of the problem. )- It may also be that I'm working with the beta version of the new Aladdin. RON: TOS 1.62, ICD Cache and Verify is on, and I don't need PoolFix. |) | |)O|): I could try creating another partition and making it my "Aladdin" partition. That might give me some clues. I will also try it without any TRS's (except maybe CodeKeys and HotWire). -( What happens if you cancel the pass after getting the disk )- -( error? )- Same thing. Corrupted filenames and unreadable messages in Aladdin. RON: Do you frequent SFRT? SFRT1 to be exact? That seems to be the ONLY place where I get the errors and messed up messages in Aladdin. Live And Direct [2:27 AM-10/Apr/93], Rod Martin, Network 23/ST Connection ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 146 Sat Apr 10, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:09 EDT Lou, Re message 139. Should the date be 930401? That seems to be the format GEnie uses. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 147 Sat Apr 10, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 10:03 EST >> Do you frequent SFRT? SFRT1 to be exact? That seems to be the << >>ONLY place where I get the errors and messed up messages in << >>Aladdin. << Rod, While I am a devoted SF fan (I've been reading it since 1952), I don't go in the SFRT because there are TOO many topics, and TOO many messages. I don't have 8 to 10 hours a day to spend reading messages! grin. Seems strange that you have the problem with only one RT. Have you tried trashing all the files for that RT, and reconfiguring it? ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 148 Sat Apr 10, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 10:10 EDT Ken, my apologies. Yes, the format should be YYMMDD. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 149 Sat Apr 10, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 10:44 EDT Bob, I was not implying that ALADDIN was buggy rather the intensive disk usage is the problem. I too have heard of problems with ALADDIN but it hasn't stopped me from using it and I still use it. Believe me, to call myself a heavy user of ALADDIN is an understatement. It seems like I am always defragging my ALADDIN partition. In fact, long ago I had to change my Telecom parttion into an ALADDIN partition to try to reduce fregmentation. When you have to read the whole ATARI BBS daily, the disk accesses adds up real quickly. I feel the stability is in direct relationship to the amount of usage. The problem has only occurred in ALADDIN and only three or four times. Other than the CODEHEADS products I only use Calender, Spelling Sentry, Abbreviator, EdHak, and STalker as accessories. The first two times it occurred I had none of these accessories. My auto folder only have Antibomb in addition to auto programs to run the above. Again, I will continue to use ALADDIN but I am going to be more cautious when I get DE. Until then my previous ALADDIN folder with all my GEnie information is gone and perhaps forever. ~~~~Brian.... Written on Saturday 10 April 1993 at 10:54 a.m. AST ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 150 Sat Apr 10, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 12:52 EDT Ron, Re: Write verify NEVER, NEVER, Never. Beat me with a wet noodle if I ever did [grin]. Robert, ONLY in the Aladdin partition. Well, the first time it was called the Telecom partition but now only ALADDIN. (See how much I love this program, I gave it 10 megs for itself.) Never, occurred in any other partition. In the meantime the drive has been reformmated twice and different partitions for ALADDIN. Topic Police? Never heard of them [grin]. Basically, assuming we stick to disk diagnostics and DE we are OK. Otherwise, I will have to report myself [grin]. Again, I am not saying ALADDIN is causing the problem per say; rather its frequent disc writes and reads. Therefore, any program that does such large number of reads and writes probably does the same thing. ~~~~Brian.... Written on Saturday 10 April 1993 at 12:10 p.m. AST ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 151 Sat Apr 10, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 14:23 EDT ST Lou, "Offhand, .....just restore from your backup" I would have done this except for one file that was lost. I perform a weekly inventory for the company I work for. Last weeks results had not been backed up. " ,,, did you delete files or wipe your partition" I don't know. This is the embarasing part. I have just bought Maxifile. When I got around to checking it I did what all of us loyal Atari users do. Started fooling around without reading the doc. I cliked on all files in drive C and "accidently" hit the trashcan.....now I asumed as my hard disk whirled that there was an erase procedure goign on but I was sure I would get a confirmation request before all would be permenantly erased. This is the bad part, it didn't come. I guess when I was looking at the warnings menu I turned off the warnings but i don't remember doing this. So....I didn't drag drive C to trash, I selected all files and erased. Will Diamond Edge be able to recover the Fat table. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 152 Sat Apr 10, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 15:02 EDT John Brenner, I was able to undelete a number of files using Diamond Edge but there are a few things I can tell you (and Bob will correct if I am wrong!). If you write any new files to the paritition, there is a good chance that some of your deleted files will be overwritten. Second, if the deleted files were fragmented, there is a good chance that only parts of them can be recovered. Third, if you had Diamond Edge, you could have easily undeleted all those files by now :-) Diamond Mirror would allow you to undelete even the fragmented files. Bob, can John undelete fragmented files IF the FAT is OK? ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 153 Sat Apr 10, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 16:18 EDT St Lou, Thanks, this is very good news. I ordered Diamond Edge a few weeks ago and am expecting it any day now. I haven't touched drive C since the unfortunate deed. As for files being fragmented, I run Toolkit on an almost daily basis and I had just finished this task. No files should be fragmented. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 154 Sat Apr 10, 1993 D.CHARTER at 18:04 EDT J.Brenner, Although you made quite a mistake, I would think your using Toolkit on a regular basis will probably save the day. Without fragmented files, Diamond Edge is excellent and recovering files. Just make sure you don't write anything to the drive. Good luck, we have all had the same problem at one time or another....usually without much luck saving the files (or course I don't defragment my disk often enough; and backup a an irregular basis). Duane ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 155 Sat Apr 10, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:46 EDT Well, I just fooled around with my Diamond Edge demo. Got one with my Diamond back II disk and that's what prompted me to order Diamond Edge. I was amazed as I tried the undelete feature. All my file names are in a window, all directories....I got very excited, I have hope that I will recover data, but wait.....I can't access directories. When I click on them nothing happens. The help file says to gain access I should just have to click on it but nothing happens. So....I fear i will be able to recover files that are in the root of C...but not files which are in directories if I haven't done a mirror of the Fat table. Bob, Is this correct. Is there any hope to recover directories. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 156 Sat Apr 10, 1993 ORA.TECH at 21:27 EDT See Flat - If you do not have a Disk Info file for that drive and have zeroed the partition with a program other than DE, there is little that can be done, aside from a sector editor and a million hours of labor, that can be done to recover the disk. The loss of both the FAT table and the root directory makes it very difficult to recover data(but not impossible). You can recover subdirectories and their contents by first Udeleteing the subdirectory. DE wioll check to see if it still contains valid directory information before allowing you to undelete it. It it does then you can undelet the files that you want to recover fromteh recovered folder. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 157 Sat Apr 10, 1993 D.CHARTER at 21:27 EDT I don't know about the demo, but in Diamond Edge to recover a complete folder: -click on the folder -click on undelete -Diamond Edge will prompt you for the first letter Try this on the demo to see what happens. Of course you will still have to wait for the real program. Duane ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 158 Sat Apr 10, 1993 ORA.TECH at 21:29 EDT I just read on... I you can see what you want to recover from the DEMO and if it was reletively unfragmented, then you stand and excellent chance of data recovery. Bob ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 159 Sat Apr 10, 1993 D.CHARTER at 21:39 EDT Bob, Isn't there a difference between a zeroed partition and one that you deleted all the files. I think See Flat said he acidently deleted everything by playing with MaxiFile. If he only deleted the files ( and he said he had recently optimized the drive) will Diamond Edge be able to save it or not? ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 160 Sat Apr 10, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:18 EST >>frequent disc writes and reads. Therefore, any program that does << >>such large number of reads and writes probably does the same << >>thing. << If you are having troubles with losing data in the Aladdin partition, you might have a problem with the HD mechanism, or the software. If you are using a cache, this might also cause problems. I am rather a heavy Aladdin user also, and have never had any such problems. >>unfortunate deed. As for files being fragmented, I run Toolkit on << >>an almost daily basis and I had just finished this task. No files << >>should be fragmented. << >> << >> << Then you SHOULD be able to recover all, or at least MOST of the files. ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 161 Sat Apr 10, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:42 EDT No problem, Lou. The rest of the message was very interesting and useful. Something I didn't know how to do. I just didn't want someone to wonder why it wasn't working because of a date mixup. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 162 Sat Apr 10, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 23:59 EDT See Flat - I too have had great success undeleting files with DE. Regarding the directories: If I remember correctly you need to undelete the directory before you can even see any files that were in it to undelete them. The same for sub- dir's. (sorry if you've tried this) Usually I will select the directory and undelete, then go back and open the dir. and select the desired files to undelete. And yes, DE _is_ wonderful! Hope this helped. Matt ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 163 Sun Apr 11, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 04:56 EDT I am feeling much better after reading your replies. I feel quite confident that I will be able to recover the lost data. Bob, No files will be fragmented as I had run Toolkit a few minutes before doing the regretful operation. I did not dump the partition in the trash, I selected all files and erased them with Maxifile. I knew I had what was going on but I was staring at the disk drive waiting for an alert box to tell me "are you sure..." I think I will blame this on my adolescence in the late sixies. Since I can't check when I ordered Diamond Edge from you since all that info is in my deleted partition, could you confirm if you have shipped it to me. I'm pretty sure it's been over two weeks. The order should be to the name of John Brenner St-Lazare, Quebec Thanks for the help everyone! ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 164 Sun Apr 11, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 12:39 EDT > That still doesn't solve my problem. Twice in the past three days, my > messages from Aladdin have been utterly corrupted. While downloading, > SENTINEL reports a disk error or full disk. I click on OK, and the > pass continues. Afterwards, I see that my drive has over 1 meg free > and there are bad filenames and inconsistent file sizes all over the > place. Rod, SENTINEL is your problem. I use to run it also until I found out that it was causing problems with disk access. I would never know if the access was going to mess up or not. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Friday, April 9, 1993 - 10:18:28 pm ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 165 Sun Apr 11, 1993 EXPLORER.5 [Robert Goff] at 17:15 EDT I missed that you were using Sentinel. It's not necessary with Aladdin (as I was able to verify through direct experiment the other day on a 40 meg partition.) |) | |)O|) Robert Goff ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 166 Mon Apr 12, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 20:05 EDT Can anyone remind me how I go about using the Icons in the ORAICONS.RSC file included with DE? I've been using .NIC files for so long, I can't remember. Thanks, Matt ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 167 Mon Apr 12, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 23:27 EDT Matt, The only way I know is to use the 'Newdesk Icon Editor' or I beleive there was a file to be downloaded (shareware) from John Eiddsvoog called Icon Juggler or something close to that. Frank ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 168 Tue Apr 13, 1993 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 00:28 EDT Matt, Got me to thinking, mmmmm, I downloaded that to use when I got my TT back from the factory and I guess I was so happy after 7 mos that I never even unarced 'ICONJUGL.LZH'. I went back to my archive disks and located this program and it works great. Now I'll have to send John some money here's the info, I could E-Mail with an upload to you. # 256633 Date 920907 Name: ICONJUGL.LZH Placed by W.HUBER3 The author was John Eidsvoog. Frank ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 169 Wed Apr 14, 1993 ORA.TECH at 23:19 EDT You can also use a programmers Resource File editor like WERCS to put the ORA Icons into the DESKICON.RSC file. Best regards, Bob@ORA ------------ Category 33, Topic 3 Message 170 Fri Apr 16, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:20 EDT Also ORCS (available here on GEnie) works good also. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday, April 15, 1993 - 10:06:24 pm ------------