========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 16 Thu Sep 24, 1987 JGSTOCKARD [JEFF S.] (Forwarded) Sub: DBMAN Discussion of the relative merits and uses of DBMAN by Versasoft, (marketed by Atari) 198 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 1 Mon Dec 09, 1991 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 21:23 EST In my mail yesterday I received an unexpected notice from VersaSoft. Version 5.3 of dBMAN is now released. If you are a registered ower I expect you will be getting your notice soon. dBMAN now suports MAC inc. System 7, Amiga, Unix SPARC and INTEL (MS- DOS aka IBM), SUN and others. New features include more array functions New Manual (good thing) lots of new power user features. If I get the time and someone wants them I will try to give a more complete list. $$$ Upgrade cost varies a lot $40 to $300. Depending on your origional version and your platform. Also changed is the way they charge for development systems. Maybe they have even fixed some of those troublsome bugs. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 2 Tue Dec 10, 1991 B.REHBOCK [Bill@Atari] at 03:27 EST Yes, they have fixed most of those annoying bugs. I don't think that 5.3 for the ST is ready for shipping just yet, but they DEFINITELY are dedicated to an Atari version. I have been working with Charlie Seng and his main programmer for the ST and Amiga, Ben rather closely since I started at Atari just over a year ago. I'm trying to convince them to put in some very high neat-o factor things into the Atari release, so GET THOSE UPGRADE DOLLARS INTO THESE GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!! The upgrade for TOS is as follows... Your current dBMAN version: Development Sys. Runtime Sys. =========================== ================ ============ 5.2 $45.00 $40.00 5.1 $70.00 $60.00 4.0 $105.00 $90.00 3.0 or older $140.00 $120.00 The 5.3 TOS version will have support for netowrking that will work with and AtariNetworkingStandard Network. (Such as the A&D Universal Network). Please contact VersaSoft and get you upgrades. -Bill Rehbock, Director of Technical Services (and 3rd Party Developer Coordinator, Atari Corp.) ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 3 Tue Dec 10, 1991 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 21:47 EST Does the dBMAN development system include the runtime system? Could someone explain development vs runtime? Does runtime just add a runtime module for distributing (and a license to use it)? I own dBMAN but haven't used it yet. I have version 5.2. I don't know whether to send $40, $45, $85, or something else for my upgrade. -- Harry ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 4 Wed Dec 11, 1991 B.REHBOCK [Bill@Atari] at 01:56 EST The Runtime Kit consists of the Greased Lightning Compiler and the dBMAN Runtime program itself (GLEXE.PRG if I remember correctly). In the past there was a $150 - $250 per year licensing fee for the Runtime Kit. They are now selling the Runtime kit with an unlimited license. The Runtime Kit allows you to turn all of your .CMD files into encrypted .RUN files so that you may distribute your programs and not let users get at your source code. The compiled code runs about 5 to 20% faster. The .RUN files can be run by the dBMAN interpreter or GLEXE.PRG. The Unlimited Runtime License allows you to distribute GLEXE.PRG with you application. If you currently own only the Developer Kit (dBMAN.PRG and all of its associated files) and you are not concerned with shipping commercial applications, the $45 upgrade will work for you. If you currently own the compiler, you should upgrade both. There is no instance where you would only do the $40 upgrade by itself. I don't know what the cost of the compiler is if you don't already own the old version of it. -Bill ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 5 Wed Dec 11, 1991 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 22:50 EST Bill, Thanks for the info. That's what I _THOUGHT_. But I've often thought somewhere out in left field. It'll be nice if I can upgrade _TO_ the compiler (& runtime module) for only $40 additional! We'll see. -- Harry ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 6 Thu Dec 12, 1991 R.GILBERT12 [Richie.G] at 18:53 EST Is there someplace to look for third party applications for this program? Any help would be great. Thanks, Richie G. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 7 Sat Dec 14, 1991 B.REHBOCK [Bill@Atari] at 03:25 EST As a matter of fact, VersaSoft maintains a referral service for dBMAN owners and developers. Simply give VersaSoft a call and they can supply you with a listing. (408)723-9044 -Bill@Atari ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 8 Sun Dec 15, 1991 JIM.HEPWORTH [Jim] at 11:41 EST Darev If you decide you start storing your date in the date format instead of the numeric format you could use the Month(date) function. This will return just the month of a date in numeric format. Also. I would suggest you store your dates in either string or the internal date format. I do alot of programming in Dbases and storing them in number format usually causes problems later on. The only thing you should store in numeric format is things that may have to be added up (ie: dollar amounts, quantities) You don't want to store zipcodes, phone numbers, dates, etc in numeric format. Also, dBMAN has many nice date functions, but they only work on date formats. This means everytime you want to use one you'll have to convert your numberic date to a string and then expand it to 8 characters then convert it to a date before use. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 9 Sat Dec 28, 1991 M.H.LERNER at 12:32 EST Well, I got the new DBman 5.3 yesterday and already I'm having problems with comatibility with 5.2. The version 5.3 screen saves and restores are in a different format, so no more nice graphics screens, just text and lines. No more REC 0 to use as a virtual record. The commands that draw lines and boxes seem to need time to react or they will not draw, if there is not a slow or pausing command it may not draw. I have only used the new version for a few hours, so maybe it's human error, but I am not optimistic. If any one has any thoughts or suggestions please let me know. Good Afternoon, Martin ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 10 Sat Dec 28, 1991 HCOLLINS [H-MAN] at 22:11 EST M.H.Lerner I recieved my new version on 12/24 and I also have found the same problems you emcountered but was trying to gather more information before commenting, but here goes. 1. The F2 Key "Repeat last command is gone". 2. Assist drop down menues are so Dark Blue they're hard to read. 3. Unable to load a database or an index while in assist. Example: If you try to load "D:\DBMAN5_3\MOVIES\MOVIES", one of my setups. The command line actually sends "D:DBMAN5_3\MOVIES\*.*\Movies and of course file not found. But this can be edited before sending it to the command line. 4. Encountered a couple of system crashes which I haven't documented yet. Also encountered crashes when converting reports from 5.1 to 5.3 where a power off was required to recover. 5. And the worst problem is when you quit the program it does not restore the original system colors, but actually changes all system colors to unbelievable awful colors where a reboot is required. You can do a reload original setup from the control panel, but this does not seem to restore all colors. The only way I have found to restore all the colors is to do a coldboot from the desktop or a power down and up. All of these problems occur even with no auto programs and accessories loaded. I have not tried to run the program on my Mega ST4, but only on my TT in TT Med Rez. I tried to contact VersaSoft on 12/26 and 12/27 to let them know of the problems but they must be shutdown for the holidays and I'm sure that when they return they will take care of the problems as they always have before. Happy Holidays H-Man ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 11 Mon Dec 30, 1991 M.H.LERNER at 19:27 EST After using version 5.3 for a few days I thoght I should follow- up my last message. I have not had any of the color problems that you are having H-MAN, but I'm running on an STE not a TT (maybe some day). It seems the problem with lines not always drawing is actually a problem with the set color and set video commands; they don't seem to "take" until a print command of some sort is given, even if it just prints nothing, this is an easy work around. It would also seem that the double command only produces a single line or box. To get around the incompatibility problem with graphics screens I wrote a short program that is called from within your DBman program that will load a DEGAS file on to the scree, it can use or ignore the color pallet depending on the parameter sent. I will upload it if any one needs it (EMail M.H.LERNER). I have done a lot of programing with DBman and Clipper on the IBMs, in my opinion these problems are very small compared to the additional commands now available with version 5.3. Good Evning, Martin ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 12 Mon Dec 30, 1991 M.H.LERNER at 19:30 EST H-MAN use the up arrow insted of 'F2' it will take you back through all the commands you have used so far. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 13 Tue Dec 31, 1991 GSCOTT-MOORE [Gerry] at 22:58 EST \\\--- Are the additional commands for DBMAN pretty hip? What are they, and how much does the upgrade cost? I didn't ever really figure to upgrade DBMAN, since I find it relatively difficult to work with. But then, at the time, I had only 1 meg of memory (now 4) and didn't have CodeKeys. \\\--- Gerry ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 14 Thu Jan 02, 1992 HCOLLINS [H-MAN] at 18:08 EST M.H.Lerner Thanks for the info. I hadn't found that option yet. Up arrow and Down arrow keys to go in either direction through your last commands. Great feature. Happy New Year H-Man ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 15 Sun Jan 05, 1992 MARTYS at 11:59 EST I'm having a lot of trouble with the new version 5.3. Among other things, in ASSIST I can't get it to open a database. On the command line it shows just USE and the filename is not there. Also, my applications need a lot of editing. They used to work fine under 5.2. The command BROWSE FOR NOTE <> "expired" does not exclude records where the NOTE field = "expired". Anyone have any ideas? MARTY s. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 16 Sun Jan 05, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 16:36 EST Marty; You're not alone. Not only does ASSIST on 5.3 fail to open databases, it closes databases opened on the command line. Also, CREATE SCREENS has NO "MOUSE" support. I upgraded from 3.1 just before the holidays, and contacted Martin at VersaSoft on Friday, 20Dec to inform him of the problems which he verified as such. I contacted him again on Jan 2. On a positive note, I have successfully imported (via APPEND SDF) and massaged "voter registration" files (340 ASCII char per/record). I am hoping that the problems are minor, and that VersaSoft is vigorously supporting the Atari platforms. Otherwise, my $140 upgrade would be a real bummer. In the meantime, can anyone help me "parse" the FULLNAME field of my database? (LNAME,FNAME,TITLE-30chars.) I've copied SDF to NAMES and APPENDED DELIMITED to a new database with 3 fields, but haven't found a way to get the parsed data back into the original records. (Where's "cut and paste" when you need it?) BTW, I'm using a MegaST4 and 680MByte Fujitsu hard drive. Any suggestions re: CONFIG and/or RAM disk to speed up operations? Jack ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 17 Mon Jan 06, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre/DG CL] at 23:02 EST Jack I can offer no help in this regard. I have not updated my DBMAN and I never really got a chance to use it. I need to go back and get some of the books for the related program for the IBM. However, I *do* have a question. Did I see a *six-hundred,eighty megabyte* hard drive comment in your last message? Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 18 Tue Jan 07, 1992 C.GAVULA [CGavula] at 00:20 EST I am also considering upgrading to 5.3 and am curious as to the problems that people are having with the product. Versasoft is already off to a bad start with me since I have been a customer of theirs since version 2 (and I currently have version 5) but I have yet to receive any sort of upgrade notice from them concerning 5.3 --Chris ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 19 Tue Jan 07, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 10:55 EST Richard; You saw correctly. It's a Fujitsu SCSI w/BMS-200 host adapter. Cranks up 1250 KBytes/sec w/15msec ave. seek. I'm using HDX4 and large partitions(8@45, 1@16.7. & 2@146.7) Whoops! That only adds up to 670(so I exaggerated!) BTW, I did solve my "name parsing" problem with the following: RCDPTR=1 DO WHILE .NOT. EOF() GOTO rcdptr STORE FULLNAME TO NAMES STORE EXTRACT(",",NAMES,1) TO LNAME STORE EXTRACT(",",NAMES,2) TO FNAME STORE EXTRACT(",",NAMES,3) TO TIT INC rcdptr ENDDO The FULLNAME field looked like this - SMITH, JOHN J, III. For a database with 2000 records, it took 4 minutes to parse the fields. Then, I used "Greased Lightning" to compile the little gem, and it now does the parsing in 55 seconds. (I can't wait to try it on a TT using TT Ram for a ramdisk! Just for comparison, I will try it on a DOS machine using dBase 3 Plus) Now if VersaSoft can get their mouse act together in their Application generator, and other potentially "user friendly" interfaces, I might stay with Atari for my database needs. In case you're wondering, I'm using my system for political purposes involving the use of voter registration records(305,000 of them) which are ARC'ed into a 21 MByte file(in 2000 voter chunks by ZIP) and extracted w/query as needed. Jack ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 21 Mon Jan 13, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 02:28 EST In light of all the problems posted here is it the general consensus that upgrading is not a good idea? I havn't received any information from VS about this new version so I have a few questions. What are the major new features (besides the ones already listed)? Is there better GEM implementation? Is there acces to DA's? Is record/file locking implemented? Let me know. Thanks. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 22 Fri Jan 17, 1992 K.BROOKS1 [New Horizon] at 02:58 EST Perhaps John will recall (as well as Mike Fulton) the FX80_HI.SYS that came with WordUp 3.0 to provide 240x216 resolution. I have it but would need ok from Atari or Mike to release it to you. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 23 Mon Feb 03, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 04:25 EST Does anyone have code for a subroutine that will dial a phone number, using a modem, from data in a field? I could use it. Thanks. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 24 Mon Feb 03, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 10:53 EST Make that phone dialer mouse activated (a-la-TRACKER) and I can use it also. It's on my list of things to do. It will include the following: SEND(1,len(PHONE#),PHONE#) @x,y PROMPT "hangup" MESSAGE "Hangup modem now?" MENU TO Not necessarily in that order. Here's another request for guidance from Database pro's: I have a voter registration file in non-delimited format Sample record: Affid#???Pcnt#???VoterName?????????????xxxGarbagexxxStZip??.....>341stChar In LDW Power, the parse line would look lik this: L>>>>>>>>L>>>>>>>L>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>*************L>L>>>>.....>255thChar (LDW truncates my file at 255, YUK!) In DBMan, I have tried two methods 1. APPEND SDF FROM VOTERFLE.TXT (to a DBF with appropriately sized fields, including Garbage fields) THEN copy the relevant fields to a DBF without the Garbage fields) This takes a lot of disk space during the copy operation, which is regained by deletion of the original. 2. Write a parsing program (below) * PROCEDURE FOR CONVERTING VOTER REG TAPE TO DB USE O:\TTT GO BOTTOM ZIP=FOPEN("O:\ZIP.TXT") BEGIN = TIME(2) FOR I=1 TO 2000 APPEND BLANK AFFIDAVIT = FREADSTR(ZIP,10) PRECINCT = FREADSTR(ZIP,8) FULLNAME = FREADSTR(ZIP,26) LNAME = EXTRACT(",",FULLNAME,1) FNAME = EXTRACT(",",FULLNAME,2) TIT = EXTRACT(",",FULLNAME,3) SAL = FREADSTR(ZIP,1) RESDRESS = FREADSTR(ZIP,30) FSEEK(ZIP,24,1) ***(skip 24 garbage chars) RESZIP = FREADSTR(ZIP,9) BIRTHDATE = FREADSTR(ZIP,6) BIRTHPLACE = FREADSTR(ZIP,2) PHONE = FREADSTR(ZIP,7) OCCUPATION = FREADSTR(ZIP,20) FSEEK(ZIP,17,1) ***(skip 17 garbage chars) RGDATE = FREADSTR(ZIP,6) VC = FREADSTR(ZIP,2) FSEEK(ZIP,1,1) ***(skip 1 garbage char) CM = FREADSTR(ZIP,1) FSEEK(ZIP,10,1) ***(skip 10 garbage chars) DISTRICTS = FREADSTR(ZIP,10) FSEEK(ZIP,6,1) ***(skip 6 garbage chars) VH = FREADSTR(ZIP,3) FSEEK(ZIP,1,1) ***(skip 1 garbage chars) LSTVOT = FREADSTR(ZIP,6) FSEEK(ZIP,34,1) ***(skip 34 garbage chars) MDRESS1 = FREADSTR(ZIP,30) MDRESS2 = FREADSTR(ZIP,30) MAILCITY = FREADSTR(ZIP,20) STATE = FREADSTR(ZIP,2) MAILZIP = FREADSTR(ZIP,9) FSEEK(ZIP,10,1) ***(skip 10 garbage chars) SKIP NEXT ?TIMESUB(TIME(2),BEGIN) *** print conversion time RETURN The above program(compiled by GLGEN) took 12 minutes to parse the file on my MegaST4 system. It took 5 minutes on a TT (don't know whether that was in TT Ram or ST Ram). The beauty of the program is in the one step operation and minimal disk space requirement. The problem is in the conversion time. Using the two step process(APPEND SDF & COPY TO) took less than 4 Minutes on my MegaST4. Any suggestions on how to improve the speed? (Aside from buying a 486-50Mhz machine with 256K cache and running FoxPro?) Jack ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 25 Tue Feb 04, 1992 B.REHBOCK [Bill@Atari] at 00:15 EST Jack, The Append SDF and COPY TO... is the more logical choice. If you are going to be doing the conversions in batches, then the disk space shouldn't be an issue. BTW, most of FoxPro's speed is in its search engine, Rushmore, which would't buy you that much time savings. :-) -Bill ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 26 Tue Feb 04, 1992 CBARRON at 02:51 EST Does reading ALL THE GARBABE data into the same memory variable speed it up? It should as the reading is then sequential. It has been a while since I had dbman up on my system. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 27 Wed Feb 05, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 07:07 EST I have an early version of DBMAN. It is exremely slow with large files doing sorts, etc. I spoke with the developer a few years ago and he said that newer versions would make better use of memory and thus run faster. Is this the case with the newest version? I have 4 megs which would be plenty to do everything on a ram disk. But even there a sort of a 200K indexed file puts me to sleep. I'm an amateur C programmer. I've written a custom database/billing programer for a small business. Even I could sort that file in seconds in memory- if I knew that data structure of DBM files. But of course that would be lot of work (could someone give me the structures in C format?). Any comments will be appreciated. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 28 Wed Feb 05, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 09:44 EST Bill, There's one other operation I've had to add. ADDRESS is a field containing House #, Street name and Apt.#. In order to sort by address, I'm now parsing that field into NUMBER and STREET fields. I tried to use EXTRACT and EXTRACT2 using SPACE as the delimiter, but couldn't get the STREET and Apt. # to stay together. I wound up using: NUMBER = EXTRACT(" ",ADDRESS,1) and: STREET = RIGHT(ADDRESS,(LEN(ADDRESS)-AT(" ",ADDRESS,1))) It now takes 00:12:25 to get to the final, 2,000 record-22 field, product on my Mega ST4, using CodeRam(Drive O) for the DBF. GOOD NEWS. Bill, you were absolutely right! APPEND SDF to a file in CodeRam took 00:01:24. Parsing the ADDRESS field of the file in CodeRam took 00:00:50. APPENDing the file to the master file on hard disk took 00:00:32. Total time 00:02:46.(that's a 449% speed increase) Can't wait to get my hands on a TT! Jack ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 29 Wed Feb 05, 1992 NEVIN-S at 13:42 EST Jack, when you get your TT, make sure to set up CodeRam to use TT Ram. Then you'll see some serious speed increase.... --Nevin ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 30 Thu Feb 06, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 00:16 EST Nevin, According to the Ness Benchmark, the TT runs CodeRam in 1.02 compared to my plain vanilla MegaST4 figure of 3.2. I'm hoping that the 1.02 number was using ST Ram in the TT., and that running in TT Ram will provide another 2 to 3 speed increase. Also, I have asked Mark(Gadgets RT) for the SST CodeRam performance. Jack ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 31 Fri Feb 07, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 00:18 EST Bill, Just one more thing. I have these files, see. There's 160 of them, with lot's more coming. Today they are 682 KBytes each, 2000 records, uncompressed.(New one's, STZIP'ed onto 1.4M floppies should hold >7.5 MBytes and 22,000 records. They are organized by ZIPcode in pages. (CodeRam on 16Meg of TT Ram ought to do just fine for me.) Importing these files into a DBMan DBF is easy, one at a time. Putting them on a Que(~12 per Zipcode) has eluded me. Try as I may, I cannot get the Command line, APPEND SDF FROM to function. It insists on a literal interpretation of the entry, (where Fname is a cleverly devised, concatenated string, using a keyboard generated character variable (ACCEPT "" TO ZIP), a constant string "M:\ZIP" and an incremented numeric variable(properly LTRIM'd and STR'd for concatenation)). This concatenation prints dutifully on the screen. HOW can I get it passed into on the command line? Jack BTW - I'm not a programmer(yet) **** Heute, San Mateo County---Morgan, zie univers!**** ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 32 Fri Feb 07, 1992 S.GOLD6 [Atari-SE Rep] at 21:12 EST To all interested: I just received a letter from VersaSoft stating that they found somemore technical problems and will ship my 5.3x upgrade as they have fixed the bugs. Steve ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 33 Sun Feb 09, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 02:11 EST Thanks, Steve. Good news. I haven't upgraded and have really been hesitant to do so with the reports here. Glad to hear they're still looking at it. -- Harry ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 34 Tue Feb 18, 1992 E.PULDA2 at 03:20 EST Can someone tell me if DBMAN will work for keeping track of my music collection. I have a prg. from genie for CD's but it wont let me list records and tapes, nor will it let me list the songs on each record. If DBMAN womt let me is there a prg. that will? thanks for any help Ed Pulda ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 35 Tue Feb 18, 1992 R.GIERL [Rick] at 05:08 EST Ed - dBMAN will work just fine for keeping track of your music collection. I use it for doing just what you are trying to do *BUT* I don't have it set up as an integrated PROGRAM. I have mine set up as a database with the fields I want, then I write small programs in dBMAN when I want to generate listings, etc. Frankly, you SHOULD be able to do the same with virtually ANY database program. You just need to set ip up right and, if it can be programmed (as dBMAN can) write the programs to do what you want/need it to. Actually, with dBMAN itself handling all the "record" work, it is much easier to program simple print, list, and sort utilities in dBMAN than it would be to write a compltete database program in, say, BASIC or C. Rick ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 36 Tue Feb 18, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:11 EST Ed, Yep, it will. You did not ask, but there are a lot of other programs that may do what you want with a lot less trouble. DbMAN is a great program and will do an outstanding job, but you will need to make an rather large investmant in time setting it up. You might want to look at HyperLink, Data Manager ST or most any data base. If you really want to get into things, you might want to try a programing lanquage like Basic. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 37 Thu Feb 20, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 05:08 EST I agree with Ed's comments about the usage of DBMAN. I tried writting a big complex integrated program but you are never satisified with it. If it is for your own use rather than a client, it is much easier to just create many little utilities .cmd files to access, manipulate, etc. your database file (.dbf). To remember them all I have a .cmd file that lists all the .cmd files! DBMAN is not particularly user friendly but has all the power you could ever want and once you get the hang of it- it becomes a piece of cake. I also like the fact that it is well supported as the ST market is only a small part of their business which crosses almost all computer platforms. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 38 Sat Mar 14, 1992 M.ABREU [Abe] at 21:40 EST Can someone supply a phone number for Varasoft ? I'm considering spending over $150 for DBMAN, but it's hard to do without finding out at least a few things about the product before I do it. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 39 Sat Mar 14, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 23:10 EST VersaSoft Corporation, 4340 Almaden Expressway, Suite 110, San Jose, CA 95118. Phone: 408-723-9044 Remember that they make dBMAN for other platforms. Be sure you're talking to someone about dBMAN for the Atari ST. -- Harry ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 40 Sun Mar 15, 1992 S.LIVERSIDGE [STEVE L] at 14:03 EST Abe: Versasoft's phone numbers: Phone: (408)723-9044 Fax: (408)723-5046 4340 Almaden Expressway, Suite 110 San Jose, CA 95118 ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 42 Sun Mar 15, 1992 M.ABREU [Abe] at 15:23 EST Thanks for the fast response (on the telephone number request). What I'm looking for is a database product that's relational. I've been through the DB Master One and BASE TWO era and neither product did what I needed exactly. Is anyone who owns DBMAN willing to publish a list of product features (like what might be in the first few pages of their documentation)? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 43 Wed Mar 18, 1992 S-M.KING [Nosmo] at 22:57 EST Help! I bought the upgrade to dBman 5.3. I got it and put it on my 1 mb 520ST which has the 1985 TOS. I am getting bad drop down menu usage with the ASSIST and F7 utility. As the drop down menus are drawn and cleared away, trash bits of characters and blocks are left behind. I also have problems with other programs and even have only partial working screen in dBman after I run those drop down menus. So, does anyone know what this might be? How can I fix it? I think it is a memory problem but (or) it may be TOS version conflicts. Help... ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 44 Thu Mar 19, 1992 S.GOLD6 [Atari-SE Rep] at 21:28 EST I finally received my upgrade to DBMan 5.31 today haven't had time to play with it yet, but the update.txt on the disk says that it had some bug fixes done at the end of February. You might wish to check and see what release version you have. sg ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 45 Mon Mar 23, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre/DG CL] at 22:21 EST Hi, I'm trying to create a program with dbMAN, however I am having one problem. Besides a seperate PROCEDURE .RUN file is their any way to have procedures in a program? This program will probably do a lot of "bouncing back and forth", so I would prefer to keep all of the procedures / subroutines within the main program. However, from what I've been able to understand so far, this isn't going to be possible. Am I correct? Are procedures / subroutines limited to being in another file ONLY? Thanks for your help in advance... Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 46 Wed Mar 25, 1992 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:34 EST Use SET PROCEDURE TO [procedure name] This tells dbMan that all subprocedures are in one file. Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS (return) ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 47 Thu Mar 26, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre/DG CL] at 18:53 EST Mike, I do realize that the command is SET PROCEDURE TO. However, I was wondering whether or not their was any means of having procedcures / subroutines imbedded within the actual program itself. With some sort of a GOTO or DO which would pass program control to the subroutine *within the body of the program*. Like the 'C' ability or even BASIC's ability. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 48 Thu Mar 26, 1992 C.MASON10 [Mad Dog] at 23:28 EST R.ROSADO I'm not a DBMAN programmer but...I believe you can include the procedures and call them from within the main program with a DO command. For example in your.prg: DO Case case ***** = 1 DO (procedure 1) case ***** = 2 DO (procedure 2) The procedure program just needs to end with a return to allow control to return to the calling program (or procedure). This way, you can have various parts of the program call the same procedure without duplicating the code over and over. Also, I believe you must call each procedure Procedure ***** after the Set procedure to command. Hope this helps. Mad Dog ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 49 Sat Mar 28, 1992 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 07:15 EST Mad Dog is correct. I use a lot of code with DO [procedure name]. As in: If [variable] = 1 DO [procedure] endif return PROCEDURE [procedure] code.... .... RETURN Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 50 Tue Mar 31, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre/DG CL] at 23:42 EST Greetings once again, Mind if I ask for a little more help? I'm trying to create a genealogy program - but it's more family history oriented then family tree. Therefore, their is alot of information that I need. The databases are broken down into various groups (birth, death, mariage, etc). Instead of trying to list all of these items within the PMENU, I thought it might be easier to just allow for Add and Edit there. Whichever one you choose, you then get a sub-menu to pick the appropriate database. I've been trying to use MMENU but it keeps coming out wrong! (Grrrr!) The box that appears is not allowing enough space for the choices. Also, the choices are writing on top of each other. For instance I'm getting something like: +--------------------+ | Birth Death | Except, it's actually coming out as | Description Marriage Birt*eath. Also, notice "Marriage"! +--------------------+ ^ | The "h" from Birth and the "D" from Death are _BOTH_ appearing here! I'm using the command as: ASSIGN MMENU(4,6,1,17,3,mitem_1,mitem_2,mitem_3,mitem_4) I have tried moving the MMENU display around, changing the # of columns - and nothing has helped. The column spacing of 17 is needed to allow for the largest item with a space added at the begining and end. Yet, nothing has worked so far. Any suggests would be appreciated. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 51 Tue Mar 31, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre/DG CL] at 23:59 EST Mad Dog & Drys, Thanks for the help. I had just tried the DO CASE and it seems to be helping alot. Still wish I could have procedures embedded within the program itself - as in 'C' where it's just taken in from another file at compilation. (Not that I've conversant with 'C' - it's only been 3 years!) BTW, I'm using 5.20NI of dbMAN. I know their is an upgrade. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 52 Fri Apr 03, 1992 C.MASON10 [Mad Dog] at 00:50 EST Richard, My last post about procedures was less than clear. Let me try again. Procedures can be embedded within any program. Where it resides in the program is irrelevant as far as I know. You write the procedure just like any other program EXCEPT in the beginning of the code you MUST call it PROCEDURE (procedure name). Example: PROCEDURE Make Bed DO CASE case=1 make bed case=2 sleep endcase return While extremely simplistic, this illustrates the point. This procedure 'program' can be anywhere in your code. To call it from within another part of the code type: DO PROCEDURE Make Bed. The return at the end of the procedure itself returns control to the part of the program that initially called the procedure. This way, the same procedure (or set of procedures) can be called from the main code several times without your having to duplicate the code over and over. As I said before, I don't use dbMAN and am no great shakes as a dBASE programmer either. However, I think all of this will work when applied to your programs. Mad Dog ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 53 Fri Apr 03, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre/DG CL] at 02:25 EST Mad Dog, Thank you - that last post does indeed make things alot clearer, not to mention easier! :) I'll create a really simple example to test this out and see what happens. If everything works OK, I will be greatly in your debt. This may save me alot of effort repeating various procedures. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 54 Fri Apr 03, 1992 C.MASON10 [Mad Dog] at 23:54 EST Richard, If it works, sing my praises. If it doesn't forget you ever heard of me! I was thinking, dBase and DBMAN are very similar; they use many of the same commands and the DBFs are interchangeable. Perhaps if you bought a book about dBase III, you would pick up a lot of programming tips that aren't includedin your docs. McGraw-Hill publishesa beginners and an advanced book on programming in dBase. Perhaps they would help you out. Let me know how it goes. I'll help if I can. Mad Dog ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 55 Sat Apr 04, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre/DG CL] at 19:58 EST Mad Dog, Already beat you to the dBASE III+ book. Right now I'm using: "dBASE III Plus Programmer's Reference Guide" by Alan Simpson, published by Sybex Mr. Simpson is _very_ clear. He's provided me with a number of thoughtful possibilities. Unfortunately, as his sample programs are all rather simple (and understandably so) they're more of a "a might be able to accomplish something like that in my program". However, except for you, no-one has ever stated that you can possibly use a DO PROCEDURE within the same file. It's not stated/implied even in Mr. Simpson's book. I hope you are correct - I haven't been able to try it yet. Oh, BTW, anyone looking to replace that DISGUSTING editor on dbMAN should DL Micro Emacs from the Atari Library (look under keywords: "emac" or "text editor"). So far it's worked ok - but I'm new to Micro Emacs so I'm not sure if any incompatibilities exist. I tried Dairy20S, Spirited and Stevie 3.95 (STVI395) but they didn't seem to like my set-up. While Micro Emacs isn't GEM based, it has far more power then anyone should ever really need. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 56 Sun Apr 05, 1992 C.MASON10 [Mad Dog] at 01:47 EST Richard, I assure you you can DO a procedure from within dBase. DBMAN may be another story. I have a book entitled "Advanced dBASE III PLUS" that explains (somewhat cryptically) just such an event. I have used this 'procedure' myself before and it works. Let me know what you find out. I'll be more than happy to offer any assistance (however dubious) I can. Drop a note here and I'll practice on the (choke) IBM at work. Mad Dog ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 57 Fri Apr 10, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 07:05 EDT Tell me if I'm wrong but- after using DBMAN for several years (V2) I just noticed the following. After making a few minor corrections to a .dbf file and properly saving with ^S I then checked the date of the newly modified file and it had not changed! It still had the date of the last time I made *major* changes to the file. So then I tried again but this time I appended a new record. Still no change in the file date. Only after I deleted a record and packed it did I see the file date get updated. Isn't this bogus? Any comments? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 58 Fri Apr 10, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre/DG CL] at 21:34 EDT Joe, I'm not sure if your comments about the date is supposed to be a feature, a bug, or what. However, I noticed you're using ^S to save. In my version (5.20NI) ^W is used to save. Hmmmm, possible clearification, it seems ^W saves and exits data entry. Does ^S save and continue? Unrelated to your question, does anyone know if ^N while APPENDing actually saves a record and allows you to enter data for another record? Another thing. In my manual for v5.20NI it says under APPEND: "You can use the general editing keys described in the REFERENCE section of this manual and the keys below to enter information." Has anyone *found* the section in question? Lastly, for those of you who have version 5.3?, did the manual get *any* better? The documentation for this program seems as clear as mud. (Original phrasing of last sentence altered to comply with GEnie Policy - not to mention the moral and ethical standards of many people.) Richard PS: Editing of last sentence my idea. Sorry, but _yes_ I *!AM!* getting annoyed with the docs for the program. I mean, if you're going to offer a product at least make it "idiot proof"! ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 59 Sat Apr 11, 1992 R.GIERL [Rick] at 01:11 EDT Richard - First of all, I am *NOT* an expert on dBMAN (or any database). I own and use dBMAN, writing small programs to go with databases I have created using dBMAN. I have version 5.1I. I suppose I will upgrade to the newest sometime in the future. First of all - YES, control-N does exactly what they said: it saves the current record and puts up a blank record for you to enter the next data. Try it - it won't bite! Regarding the quote you put up from the manual - I checked my manual for APPEND and, yes, what you quoted appears on page 167 of my manual. Now, I assume you don't mean that you can't find the reference section (that is pages 1-35 in my manual), but rather that you can't find a section related to general editing keys in the reference section. However, you left off the first sentence of that paragraph. At least, in my manual it first says "If a format file is defined (see the SET FORMAT TO command), the custom form is displayed instead of dBMAN's default screen. You can use the general ... (rest of your quote). To ME, that means that you need to be aware of the format characters then in use because of the SET FORMAT TO command. The reference section talks about them on pages 21 through 23. On the other hand, the "general editing keys" and "reference section" referred to MAY be referring to the "Keyboard Definitions" section (and other sections) in the Atari ST TOS version of the Supplemental Manual. Referring to the manual in general, I don't personally see anything particularly wrong with it; I think it does a good job of presenting a very rich and complicated program. Certainly, though, it can't be considered a tutorial of the program: it does get cryptic at times. But to date I haven't found anything that I couldn't puzzle out, nor have I found anything that was wrong. But I will admit to being only a casual user. Rick ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 60 Sat Apr 11, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre/DG CL] at 12:25 EDT Hello, I need some help with the genealogical program I'm trying to create. Basically, the following source code is supposed to draw a box and ask for the user's ID# and Password. Then it is to check to see if the user has the authority to use the program by opening SUBMIT.DBF. If the user is on the DBF and has entered the correct password it chould continue the program. If the user is not listed in the DBF then the program should terminate. The problem I'm having is that even with a valid entry (SUBMIT.DBF only has 2 people in it) the program is quitting. I never even get the greeting to the user. All of the commands and functions are CAPITALIZED while variables are in lower case. *------------------------ Security Routine id_number = 0 password = " " SET GET VIDEO TO 7 USE submit INDEX idpassec ASSIGN BOX(12,13,18,45,201,187,200,188,186,205) @ 14,15 SAY "Enter your ID# and Password" @ 16,14 SAY "ID#:" @ 16,19 GET id_number PICTURE "######" @ 17,14 SAY "Password:" @ 17,24 GET password PICTURE "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" READ cnt_down = 250 DO WHILE cnt_down <> 0 DEC cnt_down ENDDO SEEK id_number DO CASE CASE FOUND() IF password = submit->pasword <--------- Is this possible? ERASE SCREEN ASSIGN BOX(5,10,15,50,201,187,200,188,186,205) @ 7,12 SAY CENTER("Greetings " + submit->fname + "!",36) @ 9,12 SAY CENTER("Welcome once again to",36) @ 10,20 SAY CENTER("GREAT",36) @ 11,12 SAY CENTER("(Your Family's Name Here)",36) ASSIGN DRAWLINE(12,18,12,43,209,179,207) @ 13,16 SAY CENTER("FAMILY HISTORY",36) @ 14,12 SAY "Great Family History is " + CHR(189) + " 1992 by Richard L. Rosado" sec_lvl = submit->security <------------------ or this? ELSE @ 25,15 SAY "INCORRECT PASSWORD" sec_lvl = 0 ENDIF CASE NOT FOUND() @ 24,18 SAY "ACCESS DENIED" sec_lvl = 0 ENDCASE SET GET VIDEO TO 112 RELEASE password RELEASE id_number CLOSE ALL cnt_down = 150 DO WHILE cnt_down <> 0 DEC cnt_down ENDDO ERASE SCREEN IF sec_lvl = 0 QUIT ENDIF If anyone can help me on this, I would greatly appreciate it. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 61 Sat Apr 11, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre/DG CL] at 13:27 EDT Rick, First let me say thanks for at least being willing to take a look and respond to my message. Yes, my manual has the comment about the SET FORMAT TO also. However, I haven't seen anything that provides a clear and complete listing of any of the special keys usuable. By special keys I mean things like the ^N, ^W, etc. I've been trying to determine the various special keys for various functions within the program. I do know some of them, but are their some that I don't know? How would I be able to tell? After all, I can't find a list. As to the manual's layout, yes their is a lot wrong with it. First and foremost it should never have been segragated into commands and functions. An additional heading in the left column would have answered anyone's question in regards to which type it was. My other biggest complain is the number of references to other parts of the manual. I'm not referring to the "See Also", that is for other commands that might be what the user is looking for; as such it fulfills the job it is intended to do. However, in many of the commands their are references to either the other manual or another section of the current manual. In most cases these references were unnecessary as only a small portion of the text being referenced was actually applicable. I have written some documentation for end-user's. Beleive me, programming language manuals are some of the absolute worst manuals you will ever encounter. Appearently when the software companies create their manual they provide help to the beta testers. However, they *shouldn't*. Instead the beta testers should list the info that they don't understand and why they don't understand it. Then the documentation staff of the company can go back and edit the manual rather then teaching the beta tester what was meant. By teaching the beta tester's, the company's effectively undermining the usability of their product. Because the real users are going to be confused also - and will not have (in most cases) the ability to contact the company for clearification / teaching. Hmmmmmm, I think I'ld better get off my soapbox. Sorry, but poor documentation and hearing "it's impossible" from programmers are very big on my list of "Things causing me to want to go out and shoot someone." (Not that I've every DONE this, heck, never even touched a gun.) ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 62 Sat Apr 11, 1992 R.GIERL [Rick] at 15:07 EDT No problem. I do agree that the manual(s) are not the best I have seen, but frankly they are, to me anyway, quite usable and definitely better than some others I have seen. Like I said, I am certainly no expert user and don't spend a LOT of time with the program. And those routines I HAVE written tend to be rather simplistic and short. Sorry I can't help you with your programming problem. Rick ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 63 Sat Apr 11, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 21:55 EDT Richard, Hi, I would give you all the help you need, just let me know the structure of your DBF file and what you are indexing on and I will be able to find your problems, it looks like you have several small ones. Just to let you know that I have been using DBman for the past 4-5 years. What version are you using?. I should be getting the latest version by the end of next week (as long as UPS does not screw it up this time and deliver it to somebody else because they could not find me.) Joe, I believe that the problem you are having with the file date is as follows: When changing or adding to a DBman file - the existing data in the file is not physically changed, only added to or marked for deletion. A physical change in the file is performed with the Pack command. Are you actually using version 2 or did you mean version 5.2 in your previous message. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 64 Sun Apr 12, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 14:04 EDT Jeff: Lets say I find out I have an address incorrect (because a mailing come back) so I go into the file and change the address and save it with ^S. This should by common sense, change the date of the file but it doesn't on my ancient V3. Even appending a record will not change the date. This is bogus. But packing the file will change the date. Even the slightest change in a file **should** change the date. In fact using ^S should change the date even if nothing was changed (IMHO). Unless there is some profound philosophical reason why which I don't understand. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 65 Sun Apr 12, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre] at 17:29 EDT Jeff, Thanks for the offer. I left a message explaining what I was trying to do in a previous message along with a my source code for that particular section of the CMD file. It wasn't that long ago - it should be no farther then message # 55 at the earliest. (At a guess I would say it's around #58.) I'm using v5.20NI of dbMAN and may not upgrade. Until this, I haven't used the program and don't really see the need to pay the $ for something I haven't utilized. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 66 Sun Apr 12, 1992 S.LIVERSIDGE [STEVE L] at 18:30 EDT Richard: I find thwe dBMan manual no better or worse than manuals for other dBase- related products, to wit, dBase or FoxBase. Why do you think there's such a huge array of dBase 'how to' books? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 67 Mon Apr 13, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:39 EDT I believe the "problem" of file dating is more a TOS question than a dBMAN question. TOS has it's set of rules about when a file's date and archive bit gets updated. A program can overide the TOS convention, but I would guess dBMAN is just letting TOS do it,s thing. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 68 Mon Apr 13, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 19:46 EDT Joe, Yes any change in a file should change the date, I tried it on version 5 and here is what I found out: - The only time that the file date is changed is when DB-Man has to actually go back and **re-write** the existing data, record structure, or when creating a new file. - A command to append,change, or delete a record does not cause any data to be **re-written**. - 'Pack' has to permanently delete the marked records, which means **re-writing** the existing data even though it does not change the file-size. A 'Modify Structure' command has to re-write the data into another file to make the requested structure changes. - What I always did was to have a field called "Entered" to tell me when I entered this record and a field called "Changed" to tell me when I last changed this record. Yes this requires a few extra lines in all my programs but I tend not to let the computer do anything to my data without me knowing about it. Richard, I will look into it and let you know what I find out. Have you ever had any problems with the compiler and the report writer?. That is one of the biggest reasons that I am upgrading also I wanted to use the improved browse commands and to get the new manual. As far as the current DB-Man manuals - I prefered the one that was with version 4, much easier to lay flat on the desk and read the manual while working on the program then they made the stupid change to the book manual. Much harder - I have to get one of my cats to lay down on it to keep it open. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 69 Mon Apr 13, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 20:47 EDT NOTE to all users who have upgraded to the latest version of DBman, I was talking to them today and they said that they have found some major bugs and are recalling all upgrades that they have sent out. They also said that the fixed version will ship at the end of the month. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 70 Mon Apr 13, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre] at 21:57 EDT Jeff, No, I haven't had any problems with the compiler or the report writer - mainly because I have yet to use them! :) As to some sort of spiral bound manual; yes, they are much easier to handle when you are trying to program from information within it's pages. Either that or a three ring binder. Saw a nice binder the other day that allowed it to stand up by adding "flaps" to the cover. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 71 Tue Apr 14, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 07:21 EDT Joe M.: I'm sure your right about DBMAN's not updating the files. But it seems lazy. To me, anytime 1 bit is changed the date should change. I wonder how DBASEIII handles this? Jeff: So is it a virtue or laziness that DBMAN fails to change the date? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 72 Wed Apr 15, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:39 EDT Joe, The point I was trying to make is changing the date bit is done in part by the program and in part by TOS. If dBMAN was so designed it could always change the date. BTW I don't know about Dbase III, but at work I use Enable and it hardly ever updates a date. The Archive bit is changed though. I have some Atari programs that update the date and the archive bit, some that do the date and not the archive bit, and some that do the archive bit, but not the date. I guess that is why some backup programs let you chose how you will do incrimental backups. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 73 Wed Apr 15, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 21:05 EDT Joe Z.: Actually it sounds like laziness to me that DB-Man fails to change the date. Even if it is a problem with TOS - they could have found a way to go around it. Did anyone read my message about Versa-soft recalling all atari updates?. If so did anyone receive notification yet?. And all programs should change the file date regardless.... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 74 Thu Apr 16, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:54 EDT Jeff, I agree the program -should- change the file date, but if the dBMAN folk are useing the basic calls they may be expecting TOS to do something it just does not do. (I am not hitting on TOS or dBMAN). I did read your message about the update. I am waiting for my update I ordered a short time ago. I recieved a responce to a question I asked with my order, but I have not gotten the update yet. I will let you know when I get it and what version it is. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 75 Thu Apr 16, 1992 M.ABREU [Abe] at 18:18 EDT I'm a DBMAN rookie. I'm trying to put together a music collection database. One of the functions I'd like to provide is the ability to search for a certain group of records to view/modify/delete. My first attempt was to use the LOCATE statement based on some user input, then do an EDIT. This worked OK except that as I used ^N to move through the records I noticed that I eventually started seeing records that didn't meet my LOCATE critieria . My second attempt was to use the SET FILTER clause just before the LOCATE and EDIT, but this didn't seem to make any difference. A good example is, "I want to view/modify/delete all records with ARTIST LIKE '*BEATLES*'" I only want to see the records for the Beatles, no others. Any ideas? Next problem. I'm using a form to do the EDIT. Problem is, if I ^D (delete) the record, I don't know how to show the user (usually me) that the record has been marked for delete. I see the '*' when I do the BROWSE. Is there a way to get that info. for a record so I can display it? Finally, I know there's been some talk about better DBMAN documentation. I understand I can upgrade from V5.2 to V5.3 for about $45. Do I get the "overhauled" documentation, or is that only for new purchasers? Also, I was in a bookstore tonight and saw a few dBase IIIplus books. What are peoples recommendations on this kind of stuff? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 76 Thu Apr 16, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 19:30 EDT Joe, You are proably right but it is not good programming practice to hope that the operating system will take care of something.... ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 77 Thu Apr 16, 1992 M.ABREU [Abe] at 21:46 EDT Hey, I'm having one more problem. I'm trying to do this: REPORT FORM MUSICDB ON FILE MUSICDB.LIS When I do this the report goes to my printer, not the file. When I created the report I could print to the printer or the file no problem, but from a .CMD it doesn't seem to work so well. One other thing. When I set my bottom margin to 0 in the report, the end result doesn't print with form feeds between pages like I set it up to. Setting the bottom margin back to 1 got me my page breaks back. Very strange... ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 78 Fri Apr 17, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 02:59 EDT Has anyone heard whether Versasoft is planning to support the different serial ports on the TT and Mega STE's? Don't you wish there was a 'Clipper' for the ST? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 79 Fri Apr 17, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:02 EDT Jeff, It in not just not good programming, it is poor programing. In this case since it is not a fatal problem I can live with it, but like you I don't like it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ more.... Abe, I can't be of much help yet, I have not used dBASE for so long I don't remember the answers to your questions, however I have a project comming up and I have 5.3 upgrade on the way, I will let you know about the manual when I get it. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 80 Fri Apr 17, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 11:41 EDT Abe, Did you compile the program?. And what version of DBman are you using?. And I use DBase books as reference and programming styles, it helped me when I was starting with DBman... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 81 Fri Apr 17, 1992 M.ABREU [Abe] at 19:48 EDT Jeff, no I didn't compile the program. I'm running V5.2. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 82 Sat Apr 18, 1992 C.MASON10 [Mad Dog] at 02:15 EDT ABE, After you do a set filter command, you must (at least in dBase) do a go top for the filter change to take affect. Example: SET Filter to ='beatles' GO TOP This will strip out all files that match the filter,. To get the file deletion to show, you'll have to use an If/Then statement. Mad Dog ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 83 Sat Apr 18, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre] at 04:11 EDT Abe, I agree completely with Jeff. Get any dBASE III or III+ book that seems of innterest to you. I mentioned one farther back that i had found helpful (I think) by Alan Simpson. It's good for starting out with. Although (as someone's comment stated) it seems to be lacking the information to help you use some of the more advanced programming techniques. But I have *DEFINITELY* learned more with Mr. Simpson's book then I ever had with the dbMAN Manual. Unfortunately, you seem to be somewhat ahead of me in your programming knowledge so I can't be of help in regards to your other questions. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 84 Sun Apr 19, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 06:32 EDT Abe: Good luck in putting together your music database. It sounds like you are programming it rather than using DBMAN straight. I tried putting together a user friendly front end for a .dbf file. But I was never satisified with it (the menus, etc.). I finally gave up and just enter commands as I need them. Also, from what I learned trying to do the big program I finally took all those subroutines and made them into little command files that I call up as I need them. To remember what they are I have a command file called CMD.CMD which I call by DO CMD. This lists all the command files. I found that this approach can be very productive rather than spending infinite hours trying to perfect the big one. I also have the Simpson book and found it to be invalualble. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 85 Sun Apr 19, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre] at 12:10 EDT Joe & Abe, Just thought that I would mention that Jeff was correct when he said that you should be able to SET PROCEDURE TO . So, if you: DO program and within the file you have: SET PROCEDURE TO program and then at some point you have a DO Your .CMD file *will* look inside of itself to find the procedure, perform it and then return to wherever the procedure was called. I have not tried to compile any programs that use this feature/bug (no idea how VersaSoft would consider this) so it may not be possible to do in compiled programs. I'm using 5.20NI of dbMAN, so please check this in any of the newer versions of the program for other dbMAN users. Richard PS: Has anyone encountered a dBASE III or III+ book that gives more advanced techniques? I mean, the book by Mr. Simpson - while extremely helpful and clear - is more of a command primer then a "if you want to use some really powerful techniques, try these" book. At this point I'm looking for the "really powerful techniques" book. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 86 Sun Apr 19, 1992 M.ABREU [Abe] at 22:12 EDT Mad-Dog, I tried the GO TOP and it didn't make any difference. I think my problem is that the EDIT command doesn't care about the FILTER. When I ^N to move to the next record it ignores the filter. I can deal with this problem fo rnow, but the REPORT problem has really got me beat. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 87 Mon Apr 20, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:09 EDT Richard, You might want to look into books by Joseph-David Carrobis. I believe he has several on dBASE III. I have "dBASE III PLUS Programmer's Library." >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 88 Tue Apr 21, 1992 C.MASON10 [Mad Dog] at 02:06 EDT Abe, Is the problem you're having within a program you wrote, manuevering around the prompt, or within some sort of assist mode? I may have a couple more ideas if you tell me where/how you're encountering the problem. Richard, So, you got the SET PROCEDURE command to work within your program? Did it work like I said or were there modifications required because of DBMAN? I have a book entitled, "Advanced dBASE III Plus Programming and Techniques." It may be what you're looking for. The ISBN is: 0-07-881249-6. Mad Dog ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 89 Tue Apr 21, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 05:06 EDT Lyre: Regarding advanced DBASE books. Almost all the major book publishers have specialized catalogs on computer books. I once had a big collection of them but must have thrown them out- except for "Osborne/McGraw-Hill." You can reach them at 1-800-227-0900. Most of these catalogs will have several pages of DBASE books. It seems to be quite an industry. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 90 Tue Apr 21, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre] at 18:43 EDT Joe, Thanks for the info. I figure I'm going to need all of the help that I can get since a professional programmer (maniframe only unfortunately) that I know told me "Good luck!" in a somewhat incredulous voice. I'm sure if the program wasn't being designed to do so much, I would probably have substantially less trouble. But I've always been one of those people who wants far more power in a program then anyone in their right mind needs. ;) Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 91 Tue Apr 21, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre] at 20:37 EDT Mad Dog, You said that? Oooops, sorry about that. Laid the blame on someone else. :) Anyway, yes, I did get the SET PROCEDURE TO to allow my main program to also act as the procedure file. It required no modifications what-so-ever. However, I have not tried compiling yet so it may be kicked out as an error at that time. Is the "Advanced dBASE III Plus Programming and Techniques" book by Mr. Simpson? I remember seeing a book by him that was supposed to be "advanced" but then spent about 60% of it's size in telling the reader how to use the commands. I'm basically beyone that. I need something that will provide extensive examples of data validation. Reports and system maintenance are the next things I will need to look into (as far as extensive self-help books are concerned). My program is nowhere near completion (their are 26 database files and probably as many reports). If I can complete this thing (and keep the code small ) it may very well end up being the most powerful genealogical database program for the ST. But regardless of that I *REALLY* want to create it. Over the years, many family members who are very old and in poor health are the only ones who know anything about our family. And the family is HUGE - at least 100 descendants from my paternal grandmother. Not counting her siblings or touching her husband's family in any way. That's why I need so many DBF's - to keep it all organized. God knows I don't have the room for a paper version of this info. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 92 Wed Apr 22, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 09:36 EDT I have a book called FoxPro II by Jones which I find better than the DBase books. Jack ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 93 Thu Apr 23, 1992 C.MASON10 [Mad Dog] at 01:58 EDT Richard, No apology required. As I told you before, I don't use DBMAN...yet. I use dBASE at work and have been considering purchasing DBMAN for home use. I want to create inventory/point of sale programs for a small business I hope to start. I've been hanging out here to see how close DBMAN comes to dBASE; considering the price difference, I'll probably get it anyway. I'm just glad my suggestion steered you in the direction you wanted to go. The dBASE book is by Miriam Liskinand is published by McGraw-Hill. It is far from a beginners book and uses a rather in-depth program as an example. Your local Waldens may have it in stock. Give it a look. I agree with your friend, "Good luck." Your project sounds _very_ involved. Mad Dog ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 94 Thu Apr 23, 1992 S.GOLD6 [Atari-SE Rep] at 18:51 EDT I spoke with Martin at VersaSoft today. They will have an update to 5.31HI (the version I have) sometime during the next 2-3 weeks. Steve ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 95 Fri Apr 24, 1992 M.ABREU [Abe] at 21:13 EDT Here's an extract of my MUSICDB.CMD procedure. When I use the "print report" option the procedure hangs until I turn my printer on, then it prints to the printer. Notice that I say "TO FILE" in the REPORT statement. SET TALK OFF CLOSE ALL SELECT FP USE MUSICDB.DBF ? 'Deleting index file...' DELETE FILE MUSICDB.NDX ? 'Indexing Music database file...' INDEX ON ARTIST + TITLE TO MUSICDB.NDX SET INDEX TO MUSICDB.NDX SET FORMAT TO MUSICDB && && This is the main routine && DO WHILE T && Stay in here forever!!! && ERASE @ 0,0 SAY 'MUSIC COLLECTION DATABASE' ITEM_NUM=VMENU("\","Exit\Add\Search-Modify-Delete\Print\Commit Deletes\Sort DB",2,2) DO CASE . . . CASE item_num = 4 &&Print report chosen ? 'Printing to MUSICDB.LIS...' DELETE FILE MUSICDB.LIS REPORT FORM MUSICDB TO FILE MUSICDB.LIS . . . ENDCASE ENDDO ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 97 Sat Apr 25, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 10:03 EDT Steve, Replace 'update' to 'major bug fixes'..... and be done by the end of the month. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 98 Sat Apr 25, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre] at 18:30 EDT Abe, I don't know if this is of any help since you're farther along then I am in regards to programming in dbMAN. Anyway... I found two things - I think. I'll do the REPORT one first. o You don't have a SET PRINT TO I noticed that it says you don't need to use the SET PRINT TO when storing the information into a file. However, it seemed like a rather important sounding command. So looking this command up I see: "This command directs the output of the ?/?? commands to the specified device or disk file." Now, it seems to me that *any* output would have to have a default value. In your source code fragment their doesn't seem to be such a default. Since you must set initial values for everything else in dbMAN, why not the file you plan to save to? o The other thing that caught my eye was ERASE. While you are using the command correctly, I found that whenever I use it without the SCREEN qualifier it seems to pause, clear the screen and then flicker. As ERASE SCREEN it runs much smoother. Also, it's just too easy to make a mistake and possibly have a file erased. Well, that's my two cents worth. I don't know if this will help in any way, but I hope it does. Richard ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 99 Sat Apr 25, 1992 S.GOLD6 [Atari-SE Rep] at 23:05 EDT Jeff, I was just reporting what I was told. I needed it last week badly and just could not get what I needed done, done. sg ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 100 Tue May 12, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 03:00 EDT I have three questions and would appreciate any help: 1 - When will record locking be implemented? 2 - Is it possible to address the different serial ports on the TT? 3 - How can the modem dial a number in a phone field? Thanks. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 101 Wed May 13, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 21:04 EDT To all, VersaSoft started shipping the bug-free (hopefully) version of DB-Man last friday 5/8/92. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff W. ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 102 Thu May 14, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:19 EDT Got my new dBMAN, yesterday. I hope to get to it this weekend. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 103 Thu May 14, 1992 S.LIVERSIDGE [STEVE L] at 19:40 EDT Jeff: What's the version number of the "bug-free (hopefully)" version? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 104 Thu May 14, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 23:50 EDT Steve L. I did not receive it yet (hopefully on Friday), I will tell you when I get it. What version do you have?. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff W. ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 105 Fri May 15, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:16 EDT Steve L, The version of the one I just got was 5.31JI dated May 5, 1992. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 106 Sat May 16, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 18:08 EDT Finally got the update to DBman (after waiting 2 months) and my first and immediate complaint - another manual in book format. So I had to take it to a printer to cut the binding off, cost $1.00, and know I am going to punch holes in it and put it in a 3-ring binder. I guess I will never know why Versasoft went from the binder in version 4 to the book format... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff W. ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 107 Sun May 17, 1992 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 00:09 EDT Well, I went to an Atari dealer in Canada today who was selling out of all computer software (all systems). He had DBMan _chopped_ to C$29.99, so at that price I bought it quickly! :-) It was still in the shrink wrap and it's so old that it's in the ATARI binder/box arrangement! It didn't say which version (at $29 who cares!), but I later found it's 2.02. What's the current version and what's the cost to upgrade? The registration card tells me to send in $25 to get phone support for the program.. WHAT??? Is this worth it? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 108 Sun May 17, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 01:08 EDT Does anyone have any problems with the newest version of Assist?. I don't really use it - I was only putting the latest version of DB-Man thru its paces... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff W. ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 109 Sun May 17, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 01:42 EDT Bob, The current version is V5.31JI. The program is totally improved and different over V2.02. I do not know the cost to upgrade from V2.02 (cost to upgrade from V5.11 was $78.00). You would have to call VersaSoft at (408) 723- 9044 for the information. If you like to program and no other database does what you want then you should upgrade, otherwise forget it. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff W. ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ P.S. Version 2.02 is about 3-4 years old.... ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 110 Mon May 18, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 05:11 EDT I have an old version of DBMAN. I like it except it is sooooo slow with large files since it has to open and close each record 1 at a time. I heard a rumor that the newer versions can make better use of ram. Is this true? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 111 Mon May 18, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 21:25 EDT Joe, The newer version has many more commands and options, but it is also slow - much slower than version 5.10. Only one thing - don't plan on selling or releasing any program that you write with the new version - the runtime program costs $300.00 over and above the cost of the interperter version. I learned this the hard way, I upgraded only to sell or distribute several programs that I had in mind - no longer as I am switching to 'C' beause of this. It makes no sense to package the compiler with the interp. and sell the runtime engine as another package. Seems like shady business dealings on VersaSofts part. I know that I will never deal with them again... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff W. ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 112 Tue May 19, 1992 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 05:55 EDT Jeff, It is called GREED!! They don't remember who put them on the map. They ain't no way I am going to pay that kinda money. You are right. I have a book here that tells you how to write and implement the same sort of things in C. Can you say HyperLink? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 113 Tue May 19, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff] at 19:44 EDT Wayne, Yes, plain greed. I was a strong supporter of them, DBman was the only database that I would use and reccomend to other users. Considering the fact that my programs in the field would only advertise for them - I was going to do them for the IBM also. I was going to start my business this month using this program, no longer and I have to delay my business until I re-learn 'C'. This really hurts (money wise) as I have been out of work for a year... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff W. ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ P.S. I also have several books on 'C' and lots of source code from several IBM & programming BBS's. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 114 Mon May 25, 1992 R.GIERL [Rick] at 00:31 EDT I am somewhat curious about the comments of "slow". I have used dBMAN for some time now (several different versionover the years) and have never seen any reason to consider it "slow". What are you referring to? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 115 Mon May 25, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 02:10 EDT Rick, I also have used several versions over the years (starting with version 4.00) and they all have been rather quick, except for the latest version V5.30??. It is the slowest piece of software that I have seen in awhile. It takes me twice as long to do something. Even though they added quite a bit - there is no reason for this much of a slowdown. And yes I am running it from a harddrive. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff W. ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 116 Tue May 26, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 06:00 EDT I'm still using V3. I have a large file with about 1,500 records. Sorting is incredibly slow. So is using the copy file function. It is so slow that I wrote a "C" program to make the copies. I recently got a 4 meg machine and do all my DBMAN stuff in a 2 meg ram disc which makes using DBMAN feasible with large files. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 117 Thu May 28, 1992 R.GIERL [Rick] at 21:39 EDT Joe - How slow is "incredibly slow". I have a 12000+ record file on dBMAN (about 2 megs total size). I can sort it to another file in about 6 minutes, +/- a minute. I don't feel it is so slow! By the way, I have version 5.11, I think. ********************************************************** Actually, I must confess that that was not a fair reply. It USED to take about 1/2 to 3/4 of an hour to sort that file. But with my SST @33 mhz and a *FAST* Quantum drive, it FLIES! Seriously, I have never considered dBMAN to be slow, even BEFORE getting the SST. By the way, my brother programs Dbase for a living and has told me that I should be using the "index" command instead of "sort" as it is much faster. I haven't tried it, frankly, but you might try it to see of things don't speed up to where they are more acceptable to you. Personally, I like the file to be physically in the order I want it, rather than using an index. Easier, I suppose. although maybe a little slower. Rick ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 118 Fri May 29, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 00:12 EDT Rick, I never considered DBman to be slow either, until I got V5.3. I could not believe how much they slowed the program down... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ Jeff W. ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 120 Sat May 30, 1992 J.ZORZIN [Joe] at 05:53 EDT Rick: But its too bad that DBMAN can't make betteruse of machines with large memories. I wrote a customized database for a local business in "C". The data file is about 300K. Using all memory the sort routines takes only seconds as the whole file is in memory. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 121 Fri Jun 05, 1992 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 22:11 EDT Could someone post the present address for VersaSoft? The registration card that came with my v2.02 isn't correct-it was "returned to sender" today. Thanks. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 122 Sat Jun 06, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 06:59 EDT Bob, VersaSoft Corporation P.O. Box 36078 San Jose, CA 95158 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 123 Thu Jun 11, 1992 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 21:17 EDT Jeff- Thanks. Now, how do I make my files into stand-alone programs? Do I need the ???? dbman program or can I do it straight from v2.02 without having to buy any more programs? (Someday I'll upgrade to the newer versions. I saw someone was selling v5.? for $50 here. Is the offer still good?) ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 124 Thu Jun 11, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 22:28 EDT Bob, To make stand alone programs you need the compiler. The compiler is currently sold with the latest upgrade (it use to be a separte package). The only problem is, and this is why I will no longer use the package, that if you give your compiled program to someone else, then a $300.00 runtime package must be purchased as you cannot give DBman to them. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 125 Fri Jun 12, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 01:05 EDT Bob, That may have been my dBMAN you saw for sale for $50. It's been sold. -- Harry ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 126 Sat Jun 13, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 09:23 EDT **************************** NOTICE ***************************** To all users who have DB-Man v5.3. There are still some major problems with it, I just spent all night trying to track it down. The company is getting a call from me and something will be resolved. I only use this for current customers that I have all ready written software for, and at this point the disks are only good for coasters. One EXTREMELY ticked off ST'er. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 127 Sat Jun 13, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre] at 09:44 EDT Jeff, I agree with you. No matter how powerful this program may eventually become, it's getting to the point where it is not worth the effort of purchasing upgrades or using the product. I've had a run in with them which left a horrible taste in my mouth - but I won't make it public. Suffice it to say that I will no longer do business with VersaSoft. Lyre ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 128 Sun Jun 14, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 10:35 EDT JSW, Could you be a little more specific? What is the problem you have discovered. Maybe it would help other users; we might be able to avoid that area, or atleast keep us from killing ouselves trying to figure out what we are doing wrong. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 129 Sun Jun 14, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 10:49 EDT Lyre, I am at that point, but I want something (a fixed version or my old version back). I have a program that I cannot use and I WILL get satisfaction. . ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 130 Sun Jun 14, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 13:24 EDT Joe, Go and try to edit a CMD file, after so many keystrokes the program takes you back to the desktop. This happens with TOS 1.0 and TOS 2.06, with and without auto programs and accessories, squished or not squished. Specifically I was deleting lines scattered thru the CMD file and after deleting 20-30 lines, back to desktop. I consider this program completely unreliable and ready for the trash. This is only one of many problems and bugs with this version. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 131 Sun Jun 14, 1992 R.ROSADO [Lyre] at 15:31 EDT Jeff, That's why I *always* keep an older version of a program. I do not consider that Piracy as I did pay for it, had it officially, etc. I've run across similiar problem elsewhere and it became kind of an automatic CYA thing. Lyre ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 132 Sun Jun 14, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 17:27 EDT Lyre, Usually I do keep a copy of the older version when I send back for any upgrades, this time it was a case of only trying the program briefly and then getting rid of the old versions. They will either fix and send me replacements or refund my money and return my old versions. Since the program does not even work, sounds like some sort of fraud to me, at least that is the line I am taking with them when I call... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 133 Mon Jun 15, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:58 EDT JSW, Have you tried using an alt editor? dBMan will allow you to configure your own word processor to use insted of the domestic editor. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 134 Tue Jun 16, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 02:47 EDT Joe, I know that you can use a alternate editor. My thing is this, if the editor bombs when editing a file - what other problems am I going to find. I don't like to use a program that I cannot trust... ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 135 Tue Jun 16, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:57 EDT JSW, If you can't get a program to bomb, it just is no fun at all. I have very few programs I have not bombed at least once, (TOS and DOS programs included) >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 136 Tue Jun 16, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 09:27 EDT All, As the owner/frustrated user of DBman v.5.3HI, here are a few of my observations: 1. "Back to the Desktop" occurs if one forgets the closing delimiter in the FIND command, e.g. FIND 'Smith 2. CONFIG.DBM is not intuitive. The manual s&*#s. But, technical support, while not great, is better than the manual. 3. A program I wrote for v.5.3 wouldn't work in 5.3HI. 4. The program has provided me with a powerful tool for storing and searching a LARGE database of registered voters, and, using a short program tediously written by yours truly, extracted records found and appended them to a selected database. 5. Negligible mouse support. Jack ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 137 Tue Jun 16, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 19:09 EDT I love nothing better than trying to get programs to bomb. But when I have serious work to do, I need to do it. Jack, My back to the desktop was happening with something else. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 138 Sun Jun 21, 1992 S.REED1 at 07:43 EDT Just getting caught up here on the message traffic re DBman. Read with interest the comments about the slowness of the program. Two years ago, I programmed our business operations in DBman ST, and about 4 months ago I ported it over the DBman for DOS. DBman is *very* slow, it just grinds along if you are doing any type of major operation. I would encourage all here to find the May 26 issue of PC Magazine and read the review of DBman beginning on page 328. Here's a few excerpts from the article: "...we found DBman to be slightly faster than dBase III plus on some operations, such as scoped commands like REPLACE and COPY TO, and much slower at indexing and sorting. When compared with FoxPro, dBMan V lagged far behind...dbMan V's language extensions are useful, and its cross-platform support may be important for some applications. But in the final analysis, dbMan V seems both behind the times and a bit quirky and is therefore hard to recommend". From a business perspective, we can no longer use dbMan. It's just too doggone slow. We run a fairly busy overseas shipping operation that is rapidly growing, and it's important that I be able to INDEX rapidly on our "on order" file to retrieve the correct customer invoice. It doesn't matter whether you INDEX, SET FILTER, SORT, or COPY TO, DBman can't cut the mustard, and the PC version is no exception. One more thing: Versasoft has upset our company by never providing notices of updates. In fact, the only way I find out about updates is by periodically calling them and asking. Even so, the slightest upgrade costs $$$ and it's getting to be a real nuisance. Compared to other database programs on the market (for DOS), dbMan is ancient history, and the cost of the program in no way is relative to its usefulness and power. In a few weeks I'll switch our company over to FoxPro and be done with it. FoxPro isn't cheap, but it is blindingly fast and a real beauty to program in. Now...all we need is FoxPro ST!!!!!! (Anyone out there at Fox Software listening??). STeve. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 139 Sun Jun 21, 1992 D.FLORY [ALERTsys*Cop] at 20:43 EDT Steve, have you looked at Superbase? ST and DOS versions available. I like it, so do a lot of DOS magazine reviewers. Dave Flory, ALERTsys*Cop 07:50 PDT - 06/21/92 ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 140 Sun Jun 21, 1992 S.REED1 at 21:20 EDT I tried Superbase about two years ago and wasn't impressed. Maybe things have improved, so I'll make a point of checking it out again. If I remember correctly, the problem with Superbase was the almost complete lack of a useful programming language. I do very little "out-of-the-box" interface stuff. Most or all of my work is gut-level programming, and I judge database programs maybe a little differently than most (I'm not a primadonna, our business just needs a clean, flexible program that's fast and efficient). I can even do without the colorful windows and alert boxes. -Steve ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 141 Mon Jun 22, 1992 D.FLORY [ALERTsys*Cop] at 00:20 EDT Steve, talk to Nevin Shallit, he's the one who did Tracker ST and I believe he did using SuperBase Pro. Pro is the one that has the programming language. Personal doesn't have any, if I remember correctly. I did a fairly good sized database for the Women Peace Officers Ass'n a little while ago, with a Form set up in the Form Designer and it was pretty easy, however I didn't use the language at all. Dave Flory, ALERTsys*Cop 21:09 PDT - 06/21/92 ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 142 Fri Jun 26, 1992 S.LIVERSIDGE [STEVE L] at 00:38 EDT Steve: Fox for ST! Alas, it'll never happen. We use FoxPlus at work, and I use some of the systems at home on dBMan. It works well enough, albeit with a little "tweaking." Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on the point of view: my boss or my wife,) I'm becoming more reluctant to bring work home, so haven't upgraded to 5.03 or whatever it is. In side-by-side tests, dBMan has come out slower with our systems. However, because I'm running programs for only one of our customers, the speed is acceptable. VersaSoft used to sell against dBase based on speed. Perhaps they should have another look & retrench. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 143 Fri Jun 26, 1992 P.KILLIAN [Pete K] at 07:45 EDT I concur wholeheartedly on wanting FoxPro or something similar for the ST. If they got it together, they would have my $$$ for the program. I have not yet upgraded to 5.3 (still using 5.21) and from these reports, I'm not sure I want to. and what about Superbase or other programs (I need a programmable relational database program -- I keep mailing lists and such) ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 144 Sat Jun 27, 1992 GSCOTT-MOORE [Gerry] at 11:40 EDT \\\--- Isn't it feasible to have a Mac/PC Emulator affixed to the side of your ST's so you can have FoxPro and do whatever is required? \\\--- Gerry ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 145 Mon Jun 29, 1992 C.MASON10 [Mad Dog] at 23:55 EDT Gerry, I use SuperCharger and have run a FoxPro demo on it. It seems pretty slow. Since I don't us DBMAN, I can't make a comparison. However, dBase III+ runs about as fast on the SuperCharger as it does on the 12 mhz PCs at work. Mad Dog ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 146 Tue Jun 30, 1992 S.REED1 at 20:18 EDT I imagine Fox software would shudder at the thought of producing a version for the ST, considering the (relatively) small market. For anyone here who also programs in DBMAN, here is a trick that will save you some time and speed up your programs. Suppose you have a file that contains a large number of products and you only wish to locate those that contain a certain keyword. The fastest way I've found to handle this in DBMAN is to first INDEX on the key field you desire, then use MODINDEX to scope it down. Here's an example: USE customers INDEX ON custno TO temp EMPTY MODINDEX ALL TO temp for 'SMI' $ lastname SET INDEX TO temp BROWSE (or SHOP) There's something to be careful of here. If DBMAN tries to INDEX as outlined above and TEMP.NDX already exists, it won't be very forgiving. You COULD delete the file afterwards, but what happens if the system goes through a reset and the file doesn't get deleted? The best way to handle this is BEFORE the routine runs, as follows: IF FILE("temp.ndx") ERASE temp.ndx ENDIF One of the biggest advantages of using the MODINDEX method instead of a conditional BROWSE, SHOP, or SET FILTER is that you'll get a smooth scroll and faster access when you apply a BROWSE or SHOP. Conditional BROWSEs, SHOPs and SET FILTERs create a herky-jerky stop-and-go motion for the user that can make it hard to scroll through the selections. If there's interest, I'll keep posting some more bits and pieces... Happy indexing, Steve. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 147 Wed Jul 01, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:10 EDT Steve, I am interested in any additional tricks or suggestions you may have. >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 148 Sat Aug 01, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 03:13 EDT Is there any way to make better use of the mouse in DBman other than the "MMENU" command? I want to make menu's that can be picked from by single click w/the mouse, not double click. Anyone know if it's piossible, or if it's possible w/ Superbase poroffessional? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 149 Mon Aug 03, 1992 P.KILLIAN [Pete K] at 06:49 EDT J.Cooper21: Concerning other mouse uses than MMENU, have you tried PMENU()? It allows selections with a single mouse click, though it is not always appropriate. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 150 Thu Aug 06, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 09:28 EDT J.Cooper: I have the same "single click" mouse problem. I have contacted Versasoft and as of yet have no response to that specific question. They are very helpful, normally. (Ask for Jesse) My MMenu/mouse action is "almost" single click. Hold the left button down a little longer and it selects the item. As for speed,(re: you're message in the SuperBase topic)I don't think Superbase can "touch" dbMan in that area of performance. (Didn't you tell me that Nevin?). BUT!!! the CONFIG.DBM file in dbMan, and the system default directories have a lot to do with speed in any given application. The manual is of little help there. Here are some results of a "benchmark" I have developed for dbMan using one of my large databases.(>5Mbytes, 21,370 records, 24 fields) Using a name field index(989Kbytes), I performed a FIND and APPEND operation on 80 names. Total time was 8 seconds. My system is a MegaST4 @ 8MHz, TOS 1.4 and a Fujitsu SCSI hard drive with BMS - 200 host. Jack ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 151 Mon Aug 10, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 22:32 EDT Jack, thanks. I hope they fix up dbman some in the gem area. I used to use clipper and I think that it's a lot better. Do you know of any way to supress the cursor in dbman? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 152 Wed Aug 12, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 09:42 EDT Sorry, can't help you with the cursor. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 153 Thu Aug 20, 1992 G.FOLLWEILER [Glenn] at 06:51 EDT I have Dbman 4 and I need to use some databases that I've been working on at home on Dbase III at work. I just tried copying the files, but Dbase doesn't seem to recognize them. I thought Dbman read and wrote compatible files. Any thoughts on how I could convert them? Several are rather large and I really don't want to reinput them. Thanks in advance, Glenn ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 154 Thu Aug 20, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 18:59 EDT Glenn, There is a flag that you have to set and then save your DBF file... 'SET DB3 ON' is the command. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 155 Fri Aug 21, 1992 G.FOLLWEILER [Glenn] at 20:37 EDT Jeff: I can't seem to get this thing to work. According to my manual, version 4 can read/write Dbase III files, but won't create them. I guess this means I have to create the structure in DBIII, and them import the data into that empty structure with dbman. If that's the case, how would I do that? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 156 Sat Aug 22, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 08:58 EDT Glenn, I was looking in the V5.3 manual. You could just to a COPY or APPEND, while in DB-Man, from the DBman format to the DB-3 format, but you will ahve to remember to use the 'SET DB3' command. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Glenn, I was looking in the V5.3 manual. You could just to a COPY or APPEND, while in DB-Man, from the DBman format to the DB-3 format, but you will ahve to remember to use the 'SET DB3' command. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 157 Sat Aug 22, 1992 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 14:50 EDT USE APPEND ALL FROM Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 158 Sun Aug 23, 1992 P.KILLIAN [Pete K] at 21:19 EDT Glenn: DBMAN 4 does NOT create dBASE III compatible files, it reads them and maintains them. Remember also that you may have other incompatibilities, to contend with as well (indexes, report formats, etc.) There are a couple of possible solutions though: 1. Create the database on your dBASE III system, then append on the dBMAN. This should keep the format okay. 2. Export to delimited or SDF format and then import to your dBASE III system. After importing, re-index if needed and rebuild other files if used. I have done these last two many times. I also have dBMAN 5, which made things even more compatible, keeping memo fields, bringing in the SET DB3 command, etc. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 159 Tue Sep 01, 1992 G.FOLLWEILER [Glenn] at 22:00 EDT Thanks to all for the help. I just created the file in dbase and then appended all of the dbman file. That seemed to work the best, and now I guess I can go back and forth between the two programs. Glenn ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 160 Mon Sep 07, 1992 D.BOWMAN9 [DAVE B] at 00:22 EDT hello there, how much does it cost to upgrade from version 5.0 to 5.2? and what are the major differences? later, dave B ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 161 Mon Sep 07, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 17:08 EDT Dave, About $76.00 and it is version 5.3. There is more Dbase compatability and more commands. But is is also slower. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Monday September 7th 1992 04:56 pm ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 162 Wed Sep 16, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 00:56 EDT J.HICKEY and anyone else who's interested: You can turn the cursor off by the SET CONSOLE OFF COMMAND. Does anyone know the status of the networking abilities of DBman? I jsut (that's just) got some net software and I want to use my database as a multi user system. Thanks. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 163 Thu Sep 17, 1992 K.SCHAFER4 [Necromancer] at 18:12 EDT Does anyone have any info on upgrading dbMAN? I have a pliestocene era copy (version 2.02 or something) that I got with a pile of other stuff I purchased from a friend. Is there some place I can send my originals to get the latest version? Thanks! ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 164 Fri Sep 18, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 02:17 EDT Necromancer, The current address is as follows: VersaSoft Corporation P.O. Box 36078 San Jose, CA 95158 (408) 723-9044 Customer (408) 723-8384 Technical I don't have my upgrade sheet anymore, but I think it is about $150.00 or so to upgrade from version 2. The latest version comes with the compiler, but not any runtime module, (you can only compile the programs for you to run). The runtime module is an extra $300.00 which allows you to give/sell your compiled program to someone else. Someone is selling the latest version 5.3 for $60.00 in the for sale topic which you might want to check out. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Friday September 18th 1992 01:59 am ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 165 Sun Sep 20, 1992 G.THERREAULT [HACKER] at 21:40 EDT For those of you who want to understand the structure of .DBF files, I have uploaded a small GFA Basic program that will read and display a .DBF file. It is located in the ATARIST library and the name is DBFTOGFA.lzh. The program works fine, but I would appreciate any comments which would improve the program. Gilles Therreault A.S.A.P. Software ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 166 Thu Sep 24, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 21:12 EDT No one knows about networking (record and file locking) with DBman? I need to know and (of course) versasoft was of little help. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 167 Fri Sep 25, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 00:02 EDT J.COOPER21, I don't use DBman for networking, but record/file locking should be fairly straight-forward. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday September 24th 1992 11:15 pm ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 168 Fri Sep 25, 1992 S.GOLD6 [NorthStar] at 18:16 EDT I don't know about the network capabilities of DBman, but I finally received my upgrade after 9 months. Version 5.31LI showed up this afternoon. --Steve ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 169 Wed Sep 30, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 20:54 EDT JSW & NorthStar, Thanks for the replies. If anyone hears anything about record/file locking, please post. Thanks. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 170 Sun Oct 11, 1992 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 10:05 EDT I need a program that will allow me to set up an invoice template with cells for things like: Customer's name, home and office telephone #, credit card type, number and expiration date etc. The business is a telephone delivery service that I am interested in computerizing. Currently we are using charge slips to write the orders up on so I would want the template to look something like that. Once these orders are taken, the information on the slips has to be re-entered several different places; a calander book, an order book, the scheduling board to name a few. I would like the ability to enter the information one time in the computer and have the program generate reports for me such as: All orders taken for a specific day, (hopefully with the abilty to chose which aspects of the order I wish displayed, save these aspects to a default, to rearrange the order of the orders and to print out the list) all orders taken from a specific customer, perhaps even with some sort of name recognition feature so that when I type in a name and initiate some function the program will search the customer base and display the last order taken from this one and display it, thus saving time asking for redundant information. Another function that would be desirable would be the ability to initiate a call to the credit card confirmation center, have the program enter the customer's number from the displayed invoice and place the confirmation or rejection in the appropriate cell, all automatically. Also, I would like to be able to generate reports about orders taken that I could submit to the bank or credit card companies at the end of whatever period they require. Again, currently these tasks are perfomed by hand resulting in a lot of paper shuffling. OK, does this program have these capabilities? Would it require programming do perform these specific functions? Are templates available or could they be made by some eager hacker for a reasonable sum? Could I do it myself? (I do not know basic programming but I have 3 months to learn if it's not too difficult.) Do you know of any other programs that might do what I require? I sincerely appreciate in advance any response or suggestions. Flakes ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 171 Tue Oct 13, 1992 P.KILLIAN [Pete K] at 01:06 EDT O-ZONE: I believe all of the tasks you want can be done by dBMAN, though they would require rather extensive programming (especially the telephone coordination). The report generation should be relatively straightforward once you understand how to build a report. dBMAN has one of the most versatile report generators I have worked with, though it is far from the friendliest or easiest to understand. I am not sure if templates exist, but you could check with Versasoft's own BBS. Am not sure about programming the system yourself because I don't know your abilities in the area. The programming language used with dBMAN is one of the easier ones out there, but many people do not have the aptitude to learn such languages. Three months is almost certainly NOT long enough if you have never written a program before, especially for the relatively complex tasks you would like (primarily the telephone portion). I don't know any other programs that would do all of the things you want, though someone else might. -- Pete ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 172 Tue Oct 13, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:31 EDT Flakes, dBman will be able to do everything you want, except the phone dialing. I don't think it will handle that. You will need to do a fair amount of "programing." It is not the same as say Basic, but it is involved. It is about the same as Dbase III+. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 173 Tue Oct 13, 1992 J.HICKEY6 at 10:11 EDT The following is from the VersaSoft Atari TOS specific dbMAN features supplement to the manual. Page 7 - RECEIVE(,,) RECEIVE enables you to get information from a serial port. (devno> = 1) Page 8 - SEND(,,) If anyone can figure out how to use the SEND function to dial numbers using the mouse let me know. Modem set-up strings are not my forte. (I do know how to use the @GET function) What should be for my ZOOM(JOPPA)2400 sendFAX modem? Nevin, if you're out there, I know you implemented this in Tracker(which I own), how about some help on this one? Jack ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 174 Fri Oct 16, 1992 O-ZONE [Flakes] at 19:19 EDT Thanks for your response. I guess I'll look elsewhere. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 175 Sat Oct 17, 1992 J.COOPER21 at 00:05 EDT Would it be possible to link a C or Pascal program to a compiled DBman CMD file? That way one could do proctically anything. I contacted VersaSoft and they told me that there are no Multi user function s in the ST version of DBMan. I was wondering if there are any standard methods of getting around this. Maybe you could have one computer write a file that it never accesses again after it is written. It would only be read by the other computer, and each computer would have their own lookup databases and any changes made to those would be done by seperate files like the ones I described above. Any ideas? ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 176 Tue Nov 17, 1992 R.RIMKEVICUS [Rick] at 20:51 EST I just recently got version 5.31LI of DB Man. It keeps bombing out out with 2 bombs everytime I try to modify the record structure of a DataBase. Since, I don't have a hard disk I am using a ram disk and am using an Atari Mega ST4. Rick ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 177 Tue Nov 17, 1992 J.WISNIEWSK2 [Jeff - ST'er] at 22:13 EST Finally, someone else that says DB-Man bombs on them while doing something. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Tuesday, November 17, 1992 - 9:43:36 pm ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 178 Wed Nov 18, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:35 EDT Rick, What RAM disk? >> Joe M << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 179 Sat Nov 21, 1992 B.BEAUCHEA [Bob Beauchea] at 11:37 EST I just received version 5.31NI from Versasoft and it seems to cure a lot of the bombing problems. Bob ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 180 Thu Dec 10, 1992 J.SCHUMANN5 [JOHN S] at 22:13 EST Version 5.31lI of DBMAN had a bug that would cause the bomb if your database had a .NDX file that it accessed. I called Versasoft and received version 5.31NI which corrected the problem. Still no color, problems with the assist module, and S L O W !!! John S. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 182 Fri Feb 12, 1993 M.BENES at 23:19 EST I have Version 5.0 of DBMAN.. I do somewhat extensive programming in the CMD language of DBMAN--can anyone tell me (or at least offer an opinion) if it would be worth the effort to "upgrade" to the latest version--which appears to be 5.31NI? Thanks... Mike B. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 183 Sat Feb 13, 1993 J.COOPER21 at 02:34 EST I haven't upgraded so I guess I really can't answer that, but if you read back a few messages you'll see that most people who upgraded aren't that happy about it. It's major difference appears to be that it is slower! There are also some people reporting bugs etc. I'm not that happy with 5.29 (what I've got) but it's apparantly the best Atari has to offer. If Superbase ever comes out as a multi user version, I will probably switch to that. Good luck. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 184 Sat Feb 13, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 18:49 EST Mike B. If version 5.0 is doing what you want, don't bother. I have seen some improvements but those working with large files have noticed a general slowdown. The new version also has some additional features and the application generator seems to have had a lot of the bugs fixed. (not all however). >> Joe M << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 185 Mon Feb 15, 1993 J.HICKEY6 at 10:13 EST I have the v5.1 ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 186 Tue Feb 16, 1993 M.BENES at 20:43 EST Thanks to all who replied to my message concerning possible upgrade.. From what I've read, I guess I will stick with my current version for the time being.............. Mike B. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 187 Mon Feb 22, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 08:22 EST To all thinking of upgrading to the latest DBman - word of warning. There are several bugs in it that the company refuses to believe or fix, there is a big slowdown - I have gone back to version 5.1 because 5.3 was soooooo slow. The runtime module is no longer included with the program, that costs an extra $300.00. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sunday, February 21, 1993 - 9:50:06 pm ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 188 Mon Feb 22, 1993 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 18:54 EST They have gotten ridiculous on their pricing. I guess it is their hope that the ST market (which gave them theie start) will quite buying from them. They are outragous and crazy. You'd be better of with something like HyperLink. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 189 Sat Feb 27, 1993 J.COOPER21 at 05:17 EST Maybe someone with some time on their hands will work on a dbase/dbman compiler like Clipper (available for msdos). Then we could throw away the useless 'support' phone number for Versasoft. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 190 Sun Feb 28, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 13:36 EST >Maybe someone with some time on their hands will work on a dbase/dbman >compiler like Clipper (available for msdos). Then we could throw away the >useless 'support' phone number for Versasoft. Somehow, I don't think that would be worthwhile for someone to write. And also we can throw away the latest version 5.3. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Saturday, February 27, 1993 - 11:46:24 pm ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 191 Mon Mar 01, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:21 EST If you want to pay the price Versasoft has a compiler. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 192 Mon Mar 01, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 08:40 EST Joe, Actually you have to pay the price for the run-time module at $300.00 a crack. The compiler is included with the DB-Man package itself. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Monday, March 1, 1993 - 8:17:32 am ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 193 Mon Mar 01, 1993 J.HICKEY6 at 10:31 EST Much to my surprise, dBMan has become the workhorse of my system, along with Calamus, EdHak and a wide assortment of other useful tools. Don't give up on dBMan. It may be complex, but it is powerful and, contrary to some of the posts here, it is FAST. Jack ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 194 Tue Mar 02, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:14 EST Have to say, that for me, 5.1 was much faster than 5.3 Ken S. ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 195 Tue Mar 02, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 07:08 EST Jack, dbMan - complex, powerful, and was fast until the latest version. When I say speed, not with a compiled program that someone has written, but from the interpreter mode from which all development work is done. On one application, it increased the time for me to complete it by 40% - 50% and that was just waiting for it to finish accessing the disk or displaying the stuff on the screen. And yes I have Warp-9 and yes I tried it from a ram-disk and yes I have a hard-drive. But my biggest problem with VersaSoft is the fact that they did not want to hear about several bugs that I found and they are un-reasonable about the price of the runtime module was they did give away free with the pre 5.2 versions. And the compiler was a separate program which only cost $90.00. So how can they justify a $300.00 tag on the runtime. I basically told them where they can stick it and that they lost a loyal customer who sold the heck out of their program when I was working in a Atari store. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Monday, March 1, 1993 - 11:41:10 pm ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 196 Wed Mar 03, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 06:16 EST Jeff, I have the runtime mod, and I have had it for several versions. I have had to pay for it as it was never given to me "free." Maybe you just got a bonus, or I got a bad deal. The price of the run time did go up a lot, but since I was just upgrading I did not take the big hit. With their current pricing I don't think they are going to have much of an Atari following. >> Joe M << ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 197 Thu Mar 04, 1993 E.WISNIEWSK1 [Jeff - ST'er] at 08:36 EST Joe, At one time, the runtime module was here on GEnie via VersaSoft. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^ JSW ^^^^ ^^^^ ST'er ^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thursday, March 4, 1993 - 8:27:22 am ------------ Category 6, Topic 16 Message 198 Sat Mar 06, 1993 H.MURPHY [M.S. Design] at 11:53 EST I just upgraded from version 5.2UI to 5.31OI. Here are my early thoughts: I first noticed that it was MUCH slower, so much so that I was going to give up on it; after some thought, I changed the the CONFIG.DBM file to nearly the same specs as the 5.2 version I had been using (800K buffers, 4 12K buffers for RW) and noticed that it was set for 16 color TT mode as shipped. This got execution and editor speed up to nearly as fast as 5.2UI. But, MODI STRU and DISP STRU are terribly, terribly slow. And, MODI STRU destroys the database and crashes the system nearly every time. On the plus side, 5.2 will let me MODI STRU a database and use it with 5.3. The manual they sent me was for Unix/Xenix, with Atari ST written on it in pencil (guess these guys are giving up the ST?!). Paradox for Windows, from Borland, is zillions of times faster, works better, has better support and is cheaper!! My Atari system is a Mega 4 with a T25 accelerator, 130 meg of fast hard drives, using Quick ST and Neodesk. The Windows box has a 25 mhz 386 and 8 meg...so they should be capable of about equal speed. Also, the sample versions of some programs on the master disks DO NOT WORK!! The last time I bought a program from a company whose sample programs didn't work, I had a CPM machine (a Northstar) and the company who made those programs, Supersoft, was soon to be out of business!! ------------