=========================================================================
(C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May
be reprinted only with this notice intact.  The Atari Roundtables on
GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign
up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369.  Upon connection
type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE
and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information.
==========================================================================
 ************
Topic 2         Sun Oct 25, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 20:09 EST
Sub: Diamond Back II

Hard Disk Backup and Restore
203 message(s) total.
 ************
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message   1       Tue Oct 27, 1992
R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson]    (Forwarded)

Maybe I ought to get WP. From the way it sounds, there are NO bugs in it at
all. One of the first.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message   2       Tue Oct 27, 1992
G.LEONE [Gerry]              (Forwarded)

Hmmm.  I think I had a problem with Diamond Edge tonight which could have been
caused by ICD 6.0.4.  (Unfortunately, I installed them both at the same time
so I don't know for sure that one is interfering with the other).

While optimizing partitions, I got a double bomb and was thrown back to the
desktop in mid-optimization.  This happened on three different partitions,
leaving me with several lost clusters on each partition. Thankfully, Diamond
Back II saved the day, restoring the partitions.

Anyone else have a conflict with ICDBOOT 6.0.4?  Or any ideas what could've
caused it?

  -Gerry
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message   3       Wed Oct 28, 1992
J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ]     (Forwarded)

Rod,

        I have WP and I have used it a lot and I have yet to have WP cause
this problem.  I did just have one partition go south in my Aladdin folder
(Thinks DB I only lost three days <grin>).  It was Aladdin 1.5, but I don't
think it was Aladdin (other than Aladdin's habit of keeping so many files open
at the same time.  I did have a lock up with that directory opened by another
program and I had to reboot, I suspect that was the source of the problem.

>> Joe M <<
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message   4       Wed Oct 28, 1992
SANDY.W [sysop]              (Forwarded)

Well, no one wants to believe me, but the problem with WP and ICD boot 5.6.3
and a TT (and this includes a _CLEAN_ system) is very alive and well on _some_
machines. It is _very_ repeateable under different circumstances using
different partitions. The symptom is garbage attached to the directory with
Cleanup, and >10,000 duplicate/illegal file names with Diamond Edge. As not
all TTs had problems with the cache and ICD's earlier booters, I am quite
willing to believe that not all TTs will have this particular problem either.
It really doesn't matter anymore, as there is a later ICD booter available in
the ICD roundtable, that does not seem to have this problem.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message   5       Thu Oct 29, 1992
REALM [Joey]                 (Forwarded)

   Sandy,  Don't forget the Newdesk Icon Editor works fine in TOS 3.06, just
not on our TT's.  Also My Prism Tablet CPX doesn't work on my TT but does on
others.  No two Ataris are created Equal!:-)
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message   6       Thu Oct 29, 1992
SANDY.W [sysop]              (Forwarded)

Joey - Apparently ours are... :-)
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message   7       Thu Oct 29, 1992
GSCOTT-MOORE [Gerry]         (Forwarded)

\\\---

Two bits time:

I have used WP 4.1 (18 August) that has never provided such problems as have
been described here (bejillions of files out of nowhere).  I have had that
problem...once.  It was not long after I got my new hard drive about 3 months
ago.  Somehow or other (part of it involved zeroing a partition) I rid myself
of the situation.  But at that time I did not yet own DEdge.  I don't think so
anyway.  I think I was still trying analysis and de-frag via Tune-Up (not
advisable on 30 meg partitions!).

Incidentally I haven't used WP in about 8 months.  So it was nowhere in the
mix at all during this process.  And yet the problem occured.

\\\--- Gerry

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message   8       Fri Oct 30, 1992
REALM [Joey]                 (Forwarded)

   Sandy, Guess we're just lucky that way.:-)
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message   9       Fri Oct 30, 1992
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        (Forwarded)

Wayne,

This is kind of late, but there is a new MichTron company on the east coast
(Maryland? Virginia?), unless they went out of business, too.

Sounds as though Bob is going to handle your product, though.

Ken Van Dellen d8^)


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message  10       Fri Oct 30, 1992
D.SEBERG [IceBerg]           (Forwarded)

Joey or Sandy,

Heck, I'll be a nice guy and trade either of you a trouble-free 1040 STe for
your troublesome TT's.  :^)

         Dave
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message  11       Fri Oct 30, 1992
SANDY.W [sysop]              (Forwarded)

Dave - <g>

Fortunately there are reasons to keep these beasts. There are just times
when.... :-)
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message  12       Sun Nov 01, 1992
DILWORTH [JOHN_D]            (Forwarded)

 Is there a possibility for new customers to get a discounted deal on Diamond
Back II and Diamond Edge if purchased together, as the already registered
owners of Diamond Back get?

   Thannx,
      John
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message  13       Sun Nov 01, 1992
J.H.ENGLISH                  (Forwarded)

 I HAVE RECENTLY PURCHASED A MAXTOR 7213S 213 MB HARD DRIVE.
 I HAVE INSTALLED IT IN A MEGA STE WITH 4 MB RAM AND ALSO INSTALLED
 THE ATARI HD INTERFACE BOARD.  I CANNOT GET THE SYSTEM TO RECOGNIZE
 THE MAXTOR.  I TOOK IT TO A ATARI DEALER AND LET HIS TECH LOOK AT
 IT AND WE FORMATTED A SEGATE ST251 WITH MY SYSTEM SO APPARENTLY IT
 IS NOT THE HD INTERFACE BOARD.  I CALLED THE COMPANY I PURCHASED THE
 HARD DRIVE FROM AND THEY GAVE ME A RMA NUMBER BUT SAID THEY WOULD
 TRY TO FORMAT THE MAXTOR ON A PC.  I AM WONDERING IF THE ATARI
 HD INSTALLATION SOFTWARE (5.0) HAS A COMPATIBILITY PROBLEM WITH
 THE "NEW" MAXTOR HD.  ANY THOUGHTS OR HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
 *S
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 14        Sun Nov 01, 1992
L.HINSLEY [Stargazer]        at 23:57 EST

  I think I know what your problem is J.H.  On the Atari Hard Drive
Interface, you MUST have the parity disabled on the drive or it will refuse to
reconize it!!!  I had the same problem on my Maxtor 7120S until I realized
this.  Just make sure you have the Disable Parity  jumper set on the drive
(make sure you look at the drive installation book over two or three times
because for some reason Maxtor couldn't list the jumpers in order!!!).

                                 ///// Stargazer /////
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 15        Sun Nov 01, 1992
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 23:58 EDT

Wayne,
    In a program the size of WP, there are probably bugs left, even
 though it is currently one of the most solid large programs I know
 of.  If you have need of a powerful word processing program, with
 features enough for most writers, but which doesn't do onscreen fonts
 and such, you could certainly do worse.  BTW, if you DO find a bug,
 WP will FIX IT.


 ============
 Gerry,
    There is a known problem with ICDBOOT 6.0.4.  Until the 6.0.5
 version is released, fall back to an older version.  The problem
 affects users with 8 full VBL slots and caching enabled.


 J.H.English,
    PLEASE don't use all upper case, it makes people think you are
 shouting.
    Only suggestion I can make is that the new Maxtor drives are
 shipped with the parity enable plugged ON.  You must REMOVE this
 jumper for use on the ST.
    Hope it is this simple.




 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 16        Mon Nov 02, 1992
G.LEONE [Gerry]              at 00:10 EST

I had an "interesting" thing happen tonight while doing a full backup of my HD
via Diamond Back II.  Actually it happened in TWO different partitions.

Diamond Back found a file which it said was over 2 megs large.  Since I had
the params set for "NO SPLIT" it would run one floppy, ask for the next floppy
and run it, ask for the next floppy and run it -- as fast as you're reading
this.

I pulled out of the backup, rebooted the computer, and found that the file in
question wasn't over 2 megs at all, but instead, 65K.

As I said, that happened on two different partitions.  Any ideas why?
 (BTW, I've got my ICD 5.6.3 folders set to 100).

  -Gerry
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 17        Mon Nov 02, 1992
M.MOTOGAWA [MEL]             at 00:24 EST

Gerry,

     I've been using 6.0.4 and Edge, and have optimized a bunch of times with
no problems.

     - Mel

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 18        Mon Nov 02, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 18:51 EST

John,  Look at the announcements for special pricing for everyone to celebrate
our new relationship with HiSoft.

 J.English:  I have a Maxtor 213S formatted with HDX 5.0 so you may indeed
have a defective drive.  Remeber to check other things like conflicting SCSI
ID numbers or improper termination.

Also make sure the parity is off.  This is controlled by a set of  jumpers on
the drives pc-board.  Your instructions should tell you how to disable it.

Gerry - I would try upping the number of folders and get back to me please.
Best regards Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 19        Mon Nov 02, 1992
S.SAMUELS [ICE CREAM]        at 21:55 EST

JH,

Maxtor makes lots of drives and they are very good one...especially the really
large ones.  However, about a year ago, when I was checking into some of the
smaller Maxtors (like yours) I found out that they were selling some drives
under the Maxtor name that they had not actually manufactured.  Something
about a corporate merger or something like that.  I wish I could recall who
the drives were made by......(I can't)...but there may be an incompatablity.

One other thought (unless its just a dead on arrival drive) is that they also
make IDE and imbedded SCSI drives.  You need the embedded SCSI I do believe.
Perhaps you accidently got an IDE??????
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 20        Mon Nov 02, 1992
G.LEONE [Gerry]              at 22:17 EST

BOB -- Ok, I'll bump the number of folders up to 200.  Funny thing is, I've
been using Diamond Back II happily for well over a year and have never had
this happen before.  The *only* thing new or different with the system is
Diamond Edge.

  -Gerry
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 21        Mon Nov 02, 1992
T.GIRSCH [T.J.]              at 23:50 EST

My suggestion for Diamond Back III (he he he) -

I'd like to see Diamond Back backup to one big file (like an ARC or LZH file)
as opposed to the many files used right now.  This would be only an option and
when compression is used.  Why?  Because the way DB2 works right now, you
don't save much, if anything, on small files. If you go one file per disk, or
even one file per _n_ KBytes, you could save a lot more.  Observe:

F#   Size    Compr.    %% Saved   Act. Used     %% Act Saved --  ------  ------
--  ---------- -----------   --------------
 1     512       256        50%         512               0%
 2    1013       517        49%        1024               0%
 3      15        20       -25%         512               0%


Whereas one big file would yield:

      1540       793        49%        1024              50%

the last percentage comes from the fact the the three separate files occupy a
combined total of 2048 bytes of disk space, even though only 1540 of those
bytes are "used."  From the very basic example I have given here, you can see
where this method could, in the long run, save a LOT more space.

Just a suggestion...

  - T.J. @ Atari Advantage Magazine
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 22        Tue Nov 03, 1992
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 04:29 EDT

Mel,
   Unless you have all 8 VBL slots full, you probably WON'T see a
 problem with 6.0.4.  If you DO, and try to use the cache....  Well,
 it isn't a sight for the squeemish...




 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 23        Tue Nov 03, 1992
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 05:39 EDT

To all:
    OOPS.
    There is an error in my message about the setting of the parity
 feature of the Maxtor drive.
    With the plug IN PLACE, parity is OFF.  This is the proper setting
 for the ST.
    With the plug NOT there, parity is ON.  This is the setting used
 on IBM and clones, and is the way the drive is shipped.  (wonder why,
 grin).  You should have enough jumpers as the drive is shipped with
 all address jumpers in place (id 7).
    Sorry to add to the confusion....



 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 24        Tue Nov 03, 1992
D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink]      at 07:28 EST

It appears to me that one can not do an Image back-up to another hard drive.
I didn't realize this until I added another drive to my system.  I would ask
for better HD --> HD back-up features in DBIII. I would also like to pre-
configure a complete file by file back-up and let 'er rip.  By this I mean
partition C:\*.* --> SyQuest I:\, Partition D:\ --> SyQuest J:\, etc...  This
would allow for a completely "hands off" COMPLETE HD back-up.

If this is available now, would someone please enlighten me....

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 27        Tue Nov 03, 1992
R.MORROW10 [Bob M.]          at 22:06 EST

I've noticed with DB 2.5 that when it comes across some really tiny files,
(generally .inf stuff), it will compress them larger than the actual file
size.  Say it comes across my *.INF file which is 49 bytes.  It will
"compress" it to 52 bytes or so.  However, the increase isn't much and it
doesn't happen too often, so it's not worth worrying about.

An excellent program, I think!
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 28        Tue Nov 03, 1992
DOUG.W [ICD RT]              at 22:21 EST

I just released the latest ICD host adapter software in the ICD RoundTable
(file #44).  It includes ICDBOOT 6.0.5 as well as the other utilities.

--Doug @ ICD

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 29        Wed Nov 04, 1992
T.GIRSCH [T.J.]              at 00:17 EST

Bob M. -

With my "one big file" proposition, you'd still see savings even if
compression "increased" the file sizes.  Like so:

F#     Size    Compr     %%      Disk     %% --    -----    -----  -----     --
---  -----
 1       49       52   - 6%       512    00%
 2       49       52   - 6%       512    00%
 3       49       52   - 6%       512    00%
 4       49       52   - 6%       512    00%
 5       49       52   - 6%       512    00%
 6       49       52   - 6%       512    00%

For a total of 3072Kbytes used, same as if uncompressed.  With one big file,
however:

   6 files * 52 bytes = 312 bytes = one sector = 512 bytes total disk

Remember, each _File_ is rounded up to the next 512 bytes, due to the
structure of a disk.  So method 1 (current) yields no change in disk space,
whereas method 2 (my suggestion) saves over 83%

        - T.J. @ Atari Advantage

P.S.  I suspect extremely small files get "bigger" because he probably has to
put a header on the file that defines the compression method.  On small files
the amount save probably doesn't make up for the amount taken up by that
header.  In most cases, however, you'll have a lot more large files than small
ones, and the amount saved on the big ones will by far make up for that
"wasted" on the small ones.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 30        Wed Nov 04, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 01:04 EST

I have attempted to stay away from proprietary disk or file formats to allow
transportability. But as always I enter it into the suggestion database.

Binary - You;re right that you can't currently do a HD to HD Image with
Diamond Back, however you can with Diamond Edge and it will be in DB3

The "four" byte increase on really small files are the control bytes added to
the beginging of every compressed file.  DBII uses this information to
decompress things correctly.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 31        Wed Nov 04, 1992
E.GORELIK                    at 03:14 EST

Al--

Thanx for your response about disks with no labels.  I did not know that many
PC programs choke on them.  (Actually, I have not experienced that-- but then,
I don't use that many PC programs.)  However, this is good to know as a
circumstance to consider when problems arise.  Guess your silence on this as
pertains to Atari suggests Atari programs do not have that problem.

By the way, just in case someone else may have responded to my query back on
Oct. 8, I am not ignoring anyone.  When I logged back on tonight I found the
topics moved to a new category, and the messages in between from up to Oct. 27
removed.

Eugene
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 32        Wed Nov 04, 1992
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 05:52 EDT

Doug (ICD)
    Great!  I am sure a LOT of users will find their problems fixed by
 this one.  It has served flawlessly here since I installed it. NO
 bombs, NO unexplained crashes, NO conflicts.


 Bob,
    Why not just arbitrarily define a minimum size for compression,
 and omit the control bytes for those files smaller than the minimum.
 Wouldn't really save that much space, but it WOULD keep the program
 from looking like it doesn't know better than to write out a larger
 compressed file than if it weren't compressed.  I have some files
 (like PageStream type 1 fonts) that grow considerably when
 compressed....

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 33        Wed Nov 04, 1992
D.LIVINGST11 [ErnestBovine]  at 06:14 EST

 I think the minimum space used by a file is 1 "cluster" of 1024 bytes, not
one "sector" of 512 bytes.

 Lots of little compressed files take up lots of space, and you can't read 'em
easily to see what they are, so I stopped using compression in Diamond Back.

 It may be easy to use Maxifile and Arcshell to back up to various .LZH files.
I'm gonna try that.  I think Maxifile's filters can pass to Arcshell every
file meeting various criteria, such as date>x, archive bit clear, etc etc.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 34        Wed Nov 04, 1992
DOUG.W [ICD RT]              at 07:48 EST

Ron,
   I'm glad to hear the new ICDBOOT is working well for you.  Thanks for your
help testing it out.

--Doug

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 35        Wed Nov 04, 1992
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 08:28 EST

Doug,
   Believe me, it was MY pleasure... Ron

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 36        Wed Nov 04, 1992
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 21:05 EST

Excuse me, Bob. Doug, where is the ICD RT? I thought you were part of the ST
RT.

Bob, I can't find the file for the upgrade for DB II, either. I guess I need a
map.

Ken

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 37        Wed Nov 04, 1992
DOUG.W [ICD RT]              at 22:42 EST

Ken,
   You can get to the ICD RoundTable by typing M1220 or ICD at any GEnie page
prompt.

--Doug

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 38        Wed Nov 04, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 23:35 EST

Ron - If a file "grows" when compressed, then it is simply copied.

Ken - The V2.42 to V2.50 patch is file #25967


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 39        Thu Nov 05, 1992
E.GORELIK                    at 00:56 EST

Uh oh.  On rereading my last message, I see five prepositions strung end to
end.  Wonder if Guinness might be interested in talking to me about this....
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 40        Thu Nov 05, 1992
T.GIRSCH [T.J.]              at 01:07 EST

Bob -

I'm not asking for a proprietary disk format.  If a disk holds 720K, then make
it hold ONE file which occupies the entire space.  As I have said, it should
only be used when compression is on, because as far as I'm concerned, Diamond
Back is the only thing that decompress DB-compressed files anyway.

        - T.J. @ Atari Advantage Magazine
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 41        Thu Nov 05, 1992
J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER]      at 02:05 EST

It's been awhile since I've done incremental backups onto floppies but I
thought I would be able to take an existing set of floppies (with previous
incremental backups on them) and just pop them into the drive one at a time as
I did a NEW incremental backup. I thought that a new incremental would
basically overwrite the existing data on a disk. But when I did an incremental
backup, I got the message that I had to keep putting in more floppies than
expected because the already existing data on the floppies weren't really
being overwritten, but they were actually being appended to.

I can't find a way to configure DB so that it will just overwrite the existing
data on a floppy. Is my memory faulty when I think I used to be able to do
this when I used to do incrementals to floppies?

Do I have to zero out each floppy before using them? Please let me know.
Thanks much.

- Jason Saffer
  Hercules, California
  Wednesday, November 4, 1992  10:59 pm

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 42        Fri Nov 06, 1992
C.NICHOLLS [BILL]            at 04:04 EST

Jason,

If you set the parameters to NEW SAVE SET it will overwrite the existing back
up.

                                                Bill
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 43        Fri Nov 06, 1992
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 18:16 EST

Thanks, Doug. My product index stops in the 800s. No wonder I couldn't find
you!

Bob,

Thanks. I'm not sure why my searches didn't work.

Ken Van Dellen d8^)


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 44        Sat Nov 07, 1992
FAIRWEATHER [David]          at 00:27 EST

 I have an Atari 20 meg SH204 HD that I want to replace with a 21 meg
 Floptical Drive. (I can't use both because the SH204 is such a
 dinosaur that it doesn't have an extra DMA port.)

 Can I use Diamond Back II to get the data off the SH204 and onto a 21
 meg floptical disk?  Does Diamond Back II work with flopticals?  If
 so, does it make any difference if I back up the SH204 with
 compressed, uncompressed or image backup?  The SH204 has 3 different
 partitions, (none of them are Spectre partitions.)
 Can I put all three partitions onto one floptical disk
 for do I need 3 different floptical disks for three different
 partitions?
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 45        Sat Nov 07, 1992
G.ANDERSON                   at 03:55 EST

HELP..  I'll be posting the rest of my problem on the Diamond Edge topic area
but I'll start here. I did a COMPLETE backup of my SyQuest (boot drive C and
data partition D) before starting anything.  After getting <Sense 11> messages
on the restore to 'D' partition the system locked up with a trashed 'D'
partition.  Even the 'header' section of the 'D' window showed garbage and the
system locks up if I scroll to the bottom of the window.  ARG!!!!!! I've
replaced the mechanism, updated the ICD Advantage+ interface, and was using
new versions of both ICD and DB II.... still trashed! Tomorrow I'll format the
entire Syquest and try again from scratch, praying that this time it will work
(I've some important data on that partition).

The 'D' partition has given me nothing but pain since reaching Japan, yet it's
only that partition that's given me ANY problems....  I can't see it being a
hardware problem, otherwise the other partitions would have similiar problems.
Please, does AN Gregg
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 46        Sun Nov 08, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 00:44 EST

If you want an incremental to write over the contents of the first disk
entered rather than appending to the last disk of a saveset, then select "New
Saveset" from the incremental backup selection dialog.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 47        Tue Nov 10, 1992
FAIRWEATHER [David]          at 00:22 EST

Still waiting for an official reply as to whether Diamond Back II works with
Flopticals.  But unofficially, I heard from a friend that Diamond Back II only
recognizes the first sixteen megs of a 21 meg floptical disk.  Is this true?
If it is, will we see an upgrade soon that addresses the problem?
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 48        Wed Nov 11, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 00:54 EST

Re: Floptical.  I've heard that DBII V2.5 works ok with the floptical except
that it only recognizes 1/2 the disk.  Flopticals have a non-standard disk
format. I have a floptical on order that should arrive soon.  I'll know more
when I get one to work with.

Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 49        Thu Nov 12, 1992
PMC.INC                      at 03:50 EST

David,

Bob told me he just got our Freedom Floptical Drive we sent him, so hopefully
the scoop will be known soon...

oscar
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 50        Thu Nov 12, 1992
FAIRWEATHER [David]          at 10:17 EST

Great, I'll look forward to an update of Diamond Back that makes it 100%
Floptical compatible.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 51        Fri Nov 13, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 01:47 EST

Re: Floptical

I just received my Freedom Floptical from Purple Mountain Computers (very very
nice) and evaluated DBII with it.  The reports of it only utilizing 10 meg
were correct.  Modifying two lines of code solved the problem and I'm happily
backup up to all 21 megs of my new floptical.

I am leaving for Comdex on Saturday, a patch will be released the week after
Comdex.

Bob

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 52        Fri Nov 13, 1992
FAIRWEATHER [David]          at 10:00 EST

Bob that's great news about the Floptical and Diamond Back!
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 53        Tue Nov 17, 1992
P.DUBE [Paul]                at 19:22 EST

Bob, Something terrible happened to me, and it is half my fault: I lost files
on a backup disk.  Here's how: I made a backup some time ago of some files in
some directories. OK? I deleted, from HD, these files since I wanted more
space. Yesterday, not being sure if these files were backed up, and not
remembering that these files were deleted, I managed to make sure they were
backed up by making a bakup of these files... on the same disk set.  As you
should know, DBII first deletes the diskette's contents (first thing that bugs
me!).  And the files are not just wiped out as a "desktop delete", but the
directory is wiped out, so there is no way to do an undelete (unless you
reserve that operation for Diamond Edge which you will manage to have me buy
it... 8-)).  At least, there should have been a way to undelete the files; I
know the information is still there but no way to recover it. I know I should
have had two set of backup... I am just making a suggestion here so this
backup program can continue to help us as much as it can.

Paul D.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 54        Sat Nov 21, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 19:14 EST

Yes, DBII does automatically write over whatever is on  a preformatted
disk(except when appending a incremental).  I regret your experience with
inserting the wrong disk.

DBII will have a more elaborate volume labeling and will include user
selectable options to auto view the contents if a backup volume is detected
prior to overwriting.

Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 55        Thu Nov 26, 1992
W.STEINERT [Rat Fink]        at 21:49 EST

Hello,

Diamond Back II is a great program. It makes an unpleasant job as painless as
possible. But being an ungrateful computer user, I want MORE! I'd like to
explain what I'm doing so you'll know what I'm talking about:

I use a hard disk recorder/sampler on my ST. The hard disk recorder uses a
proprietary file system so I usually back it up to DAT as it's program allows.
The sampler on the other hand uses GEM files.... *BIG* GEM files! <g> While I
keep most of my 'standard' samples on my disk at all times, I have to store
the weirder ones on floppy to save space. I use DB II to do this with
compression with great results. The one problem is that during a session I may
need 2 samples off one disk 3 off another, etc... What I'd like to be able to
do is have a menu that lets me select the files I wish to restore (by
clicking). This would be similar to 'extract with query' in ARC Shell. I guess
DB II would have to maintain a list of files for each save-set. I already use
the 'list' feature to print out a list of samples.

Possibly you can do this already in DB II. I really haven't had a chance to
check the manual since I thought of it. I wasn't doing as much sample work
before so it was no big deal to do it the old way. Any advice you could give
would be great!



Thanks,

Wayne the Fink


Thursday November 26, 1992 06:09 p.m.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 56        Fri Nov 27, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 18:47 EST

Wayne - Way ahead of you, wait till you see the new partial restore in DBIII
or DB3  :-)

Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 57        Fri Nov 27, 1992
D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink]      at 22:52 EST

Bob:

Care to stick your neck out and give us a feel for WHEN DBIII will be
available?  It's beginning to look like there will be features in it that will
further extend its usefulness as a one-size-fits-all back up utility.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 58        Sun Nov 29, 1992
G.ANDERSON                   at 06:28 EST

DBIII?????   ARG!!!!!!!  And I just spent $$$ to upgrade <grin>!

Gregg
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 59        Sun Nov 29, 1992
W.STEINERT [Rat Fink]        at 20:44 EST

Bob,

Alright! I NEED that feature... errr when will it be out (DB III)?

Wayne
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 60        Sun Nov 29, 1992
B.NYSTROM [Bry @ Ahh!]       at 21:33 EST

Bob, (ORA.TECH)

I understand you will be supporting SCSI Tape devices in DBIII. Could you
elaborate a little more on this?  I have an Archive Viper and can use it to
backup all my computers except the ST.  The Idea of DB (being the best on the
ST in the first place) supporting such devices has really gotten my hopes
up!!!  Will it still be able to back up my Spectre(MAC/AFP) partitions?

---Bry @ Ahh!

PS:  What is the expected price and approximate finish date of DBIII???
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 61        Tue Dec 01, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 01:24 EST

DBIII is on a 1st/2nd quarter 1993 schedule.  Archive Vipers will be
supported(in fact I happen to have one).  All current features will remain
including Spectre backups.

Bob

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 62        Wed Dec 02, 1992
M.MOTOGAWA [MEL]             at 03:47 EST


     Congrats Bob.  I noticed that the December ST User (UK) nominated Diamond
Back II as one of the 20 top software, hardware products of 1992.

     - Mel

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 63        Thu Dec 03, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 23:48 EST

Thanks Mel, I saw that also.

Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 64        Sun Dec 06, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 16:29 EST

A patch to upgrade Diamond Back II V2.50 to V2.51 has just been uploaded  to
the ST Library.  The file number is #26829  This patch provides  complete
support for the 21 meg floptical drives including the interchangable  4 sector
epr cluster format.  DBII V2.50 only supported flopticals  formatted in the
Atari specific format.  These are the only differences between V2.5o and V2.51

Best regards, Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 65        Mon Dec 07, 1992
G.ANDERSON                   at 03:17 EST

All right...  thanks Bob!

Gregg
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 66        Wed Dec 09, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 22:34 EST

Terry, If a file is "expanded" via compression then it is simply copied. The
only additioanl will be the header overhead telling the decompression routine
to simply copy the file.  The current auto skip list(about 8 explicit
extensions) does not include GIF.  DBIII will offer editable compression skip
list management.  Also the restore interface is radically different much  more
user friendly.

Best regards, Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 67        Thu Dec 10, 1992
OUTRIDER [Terry]             at 00:39 EST

Bob,

If I understand correctly, then the reason why my files are slightly larger is
for the header, telling DBII to simply copy that file? That's cool.  :^)
Thanks.

Looking forward to DBIII.  I hope the interface migrates towards the GEM style
used by Diamond Edge.

                                  - Terry -

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 68        Sun Dec 13, 1992
L.HINSLEY [Stargazer]        at 17:29 EST

  Hello Bob!!!

I just recently upgraded my Diamond Back to V2.51 and decided to back my hard
drive up today, but I ran across a problem.  I have a MegaSTE with a 1.44
floppy disk with TOS 2.06.  Backup disks one and two went just fine, but on
disk three I realized that after a few minutes the Disk Space Left box was
NEGATIVE!!!  I left it alone and when it  finally finished I wrote this
down....

TOTAL BYTES - 1457664 BYTES IN FILES - 2617208

This information was taken from an information inquiry on disk drive A after
it finished the backup.  What do ya think Bob????

                                         ///// Larry /////
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 69        Mon Dec 14, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 02:29 EST

Very strange, What auto folder and ACC's do you have active? What was the
state of the data on the disk?

Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 70        Thu Dec 17, 1992
H.SCHEIE [HALS]              at 16:26 EST

I too was doing a backup with 2.51 and got a negative amount remaining on the
back up disc a-1 it kept going up till about -36000. I had verify on, I turned
it off and repeated with normal results.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 71        Wed Dec 23, 1992
L.HINSLEY [Stargazer]        at 19:54 EST

Sorry I haven't got back to you about the problem Bob...  I took the  diskette
that gave me the negative space remaining amount and reformated it and used it
again and it worked fine.  I tried to duplicate the problem without success.
At the time the problem happened, I was performing a backup with compression
and verify turned on.  The information about the   disk was obtained from the
'Show Information' item in NeoDesk....  The Auto programs I use are Warp 9,
G+Plus, ICD (6.0.5), Cowboy Serial Buffer Expander, Line Arc (or whatever
gives vector fonts in Calligrapher), and NeoLoad.  As for accessories I have
NeoDesk printer queue, Multidesk loaded with Steno, Warp 9, G+Plus, Paula, and
other various non-resident accessories.....  If I have the problem again, I'll
be sure to anaylize the disk a bit more completely and give you the
results....

                                            ///// Larry /////
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 72        Tue Dec 29, 1992
H.SCHEIE [HALS]              at 20:34 EST

does anybody found the reason for negative numbers in the disk free line yet?
Hal
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 73        Wed Dec 30, 1992
ORA.TECH                     at 23:47 EST

I have not been able to duplicate the negative numbers, nor have the people
who have reported it been able to duplicate it.

Best regards,

Bob Luneski Oregon Research
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 74        Fri Jan 01, 1993
C.HERBORTH [-Chris-]         at 20:39 EST

I did a long-overdue full backup last week, and got those weird negative
numbers in my disk free display...  I haven't checked on the backups to see if
they're Ok though.  I was using "Compress", "Split", "Verify", and 1.64M (20
sec x 82 tracks x 2 sides) disks. The partitions it happened on were 70M and
52M.

If it happens next time I back them up, I'll try to provide some additional
info.

-Chris-

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 75        Sat Jan 02, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 06:30 EST

Bob,

I have one partition on my Syquest that I back up incrementally every few
weeks, with a file list generated.  I've had no problems, but looking at the
list afterwards, I find that the last file to be backed up is consistently
missing from the list.  Has anybody else reported this?  I'm using DB 2.50 on
a TT.

  gnox

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 76        Sun Jan 03, 1993
C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --]     at 02:18 EST

Bob,
     I saw a blurb in the latest Atari Advantage stating that Diamond Back
_III_ was now available!  Is this true, or are they jumping the gun?

-- Chuck --

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 77        Thu Jan 07, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 02:55 EST

Atari Advantage jumped the gun.  They must have heard something and failed to
verify it with us.  Work on DB3 is progressing very well and we still expect a
1st/early 2nd quarter release.

Bob@ora
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 78        Sat Jan 09, 1993
T.GIRSCH [TJ@EuroGames]      at 06:23 EST

Bob -

I'll apologize on Atari Advantage's behalf for "jumping the gun" on this
matter.

As a point of curiosity, would the news have been accurate if it would have
read "will soon be releasing" as opposed to "has released?"

Thanks, and sorry...

- T.J. @ Atari Advantage
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 79        Sat Jan 09, 1993
D.STMARTIN [Binary Ink]      at 09:29 EST

Bob:

Can you tell us more about what features DB III will have over DB II? I, for
one, really need better HD --> SyQuest features.  I'd like to see the ability
to back-up from one partition on the HD to a partition on the SyQuest and do
so with MULTIPLE partitions all at one whack (i.e.: HD "C" Partition -->
SyQuest "J", HD "D" --> SyQuest "K", etc.).  I would also like to see a
selectable zero of the recieving partition prior to back-up.  Scripting of all
the above would also be nice ;-).

Seriously, I'm looking forward to DB III but would like to see better HD-HD
back-up features.

Thanks for all the fine products and support!

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 80        Sat Jan 09, 1993
OUTRIDER [Terry]             at 11:27 EST

T.J.,

Because of the lead time necessary to publish a magazine, sometimes it appears
they are jumping the gun.  I'm sure Atari Advantage thought that DBIII would
have been released by the time the magazine hit the stands.  If they said,
"...will be releasing soon," that would have been just as inaccurate if it was
already released.  :^)

                                ((( Terry )))

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 81        Sat Jan 09, 1993
M.JONES52 [Jonesy]           at 12:35 EST

"is in the works, release date unknown at time of publication" would have
covered accurately any eventuality, aina?

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 82        Sat Jan 09, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 16:00 EST

I'd like to make it clear that we are in no way disturbed by Atari Advantage's
report on the availability of DB3. The lead times required for magazine
puplications sometimes result in these kinds of situations.  It is simply the
way the business works.

Our current estimated release for DB3 is March/April time frame. The limiting
factor will be the design and manufacture of the package. The manual will be
in excess of 200 pages and we are are going to boxed packaging for all our
products(DBII is currently shipping in a box and DE will be shortly)  We will
be discussing features as release comes closer and will upload a demo version
shortly before actual release.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 83        Sat Jan 09, 1993
OUTRIDER [Terry]             at 16:09 EST

Very true, Jonesy.  Sometimes, the distributer themselves lead the publisher
to believe the product will be shipping when the magazine hits the shelves.  I
don't know whether that was the case here, though.  If it is, I don't blame
them for saying, "...is currently shipping."

                                ((( Terry )))

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 84        Sat Jan 09, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 23:22 EST

I, too, like the ability to zero the receiving partition, instead of having to
exit DB and go to DE for zeroing, then back to DB.

Ken Van Dellen d8^)

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 85        Sun Jan 10, 1993
J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER]      at 00:14 EST

I'm hoping that the new version of DB will fix the symptom that I've described
previously: when doing an incremental backup from hard drive onto a Syquest
drive into a folder called, for example, INCREMEN, if you tell DB to do an
incremental for files from more than one partition, DB will bomb out when it
starts on the second partition.  Bob, we've discussed this before via e-mail
and I haven't heard if this perhaps might be fixed in the next edition.

- Jason Saffer
  Hercules, California
  Saturday, January 9, 1993  8:54 pm

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 86        Sun Jan 10, 1993
T.GIRSCH [TJ@EuroGames]      at 01:22 EST

Bob -

Over 200 pages of manual?!?!?  I wannit I wannit I wannit!!!!

BTW, give me a longer line for include/exclude masks.

- T.J. @ Atari Advantage
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 87        Sun Jan 10, 1993
R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson]    at 01:42 EST

Just send it to us in a plain brown wrapper. I want whats on the disk. :-)

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 88        Mon Jan 18, 1993
JWC-OEO [Jon]                at 22:12 EST

  Bob,

Thanks!  The SCSI info restore function of EDGE just saved my bacon (105 mb,
thick cut).  I'm delighted!

I'm also a typical Atari user so I have to make just one comment...

After casting about for a bit trying to figure out what to do when my hard
disk stopped booting, I suddenly thought "SCSI INFO".  I loaded my Edge
Emergency disk, ran EDGE, and selected Restore SCSI Info.  I followed the
prompts and then (sound of complex dialog box poping up) found myself in what
I later figured out was the Partition Dialog.

I decided I'd better look at the manual, turned to section 6.2, read the
instructions, but found that they do not give any hint that this dialog will
appear.  I selected "Install only" because it seemed the safest thing to do,
and my hard disk was back in service.  Later I searched the manual, found a
picture of the dialog, and was able to confirm that I had made the right
choice.

Anyway, it would have been better if section 6.2 had mentioned that the dialog
would show up during the restore and referred me to section 3.4.2 for an
explaination of it.

Jon
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 89        Wed Jan 20, 1993
TQUINN [Terry~Sysop]         at 10:20 EST

I have encountered something weird with Diamond Back II (and only this program
as far as I can tell) a couple of times the past couple of weeks.   The
keyboard has gone to sleep a couple of times in the middle of a backup!  All
of a sudden, the computer won't register any keypresses or mousemoves or any
other form of input.  If I do a cold reboot, everything is fine all of a
sudden except I have to repeat the backup.  Does anybody have any ideas?
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 90        Thu Jan 21, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 00:37 EST

Thanks for the feedback Jon.

Terry, An old Mega of mine started acting like that just before the keyboard
chip went to the big IC in the sky.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 91        Thu Jan 21, 1993
M.HUBBARD4 [Sebastian]       at 20:38 EST

Bob@ORA:

DBIII is coming out so soon?!?  The best gets better!  Maybe I should have
waited before buying DBII (registration card on the way, my DBII came in a
shrink-wrapped booklet)...  How would I go about upgrading? What kind of
features will be added (I'm new to this)?

I also have DE on order.  My hard drive really needs it!  I can hardly wait
for it to arrive along with my disk order!  <G>

-=-*-=-

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 92        Thu Jan 21, 1993
P.GRIFFITH2 [PGRIF]          at 23:58 EST

    Terry,
    I had the same thing happen to me recently and discovered that I had a
virus that was spreading to my backup disks. It was the key virus and is
supposedly harmless until you use a disk with the "key" on it. I don't know
about that, but every time I got to backup disk number 5, the mouse click
would stop and the keyboard would freeze. Everything seemed to work normally
after using VKILLER on all of the affected disks and rebooting with a clean
boot disk. I really can't prove that the two things are related, but I haven't
had the problem anymore.
    Paul
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 93        Sat Jan 23, 1993
L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine]     at 00:53 EST

 Hi, I recently got the DB v2.5. I am very pleased with the software. I just
backed up my whole hard drive. Though, I have been using the hard for over a
year with out a problem....but you never know... I keep copiesd of everything
already on floppies, but DB II will just make it easier for me in case I ever
have to do a restore.

 Well all went fine backing up until I got to one partition. DB kept on bombing
out at the same point when I backed up this partition. Well I went to that
partition to see if I can see anything unusual. It may have been just because
the files it was access were buried to deep in folders, I am not sure. I was
able to move the stuff up one more folder and thus deleting one folder. I also
looked in the manual to see if there was a trouble shooting section. Well what
I found was that I should remove all Cashe programs. I was using the Atari
cashe program (CASHENNN.PRG) in my AUTO folder. So I turned that off. I backed
up that partition one more time and all went well this time. I dont know if
removing the Cashe or the one less folder deep solved the problem, but it DID
work this time, and that is what counts.

 I do have one question. I had thought all Atari computers (all TOS's) had the
40 folder limit and had to use FOLDRXXX.PRG in their AUTO folder. According to
the DB manual, it states that only TOS 1.0 has to. I have an STE with TOS 1.62
and I have always used FOLDRXXX.PRG in my AUTO folder. I'm I correct,
shouldn't all TOS versions use it? Has Atari corrected this?

  Thanks...

  *--== Lou ==--*
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 94        Sat Jan 23, 1993
R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson]    at 05:16 EST

Lou,
  Atari improved the folder thing quite a bit in TOS 1.4. Although I never had
much problem with 1.4 and up, for the cost of a few K in memory, there comes
more safety and peace of mind by using FOLDERXXX anyway (or ICD's built in
folder expander). I have my ICD booter setup for extra folder memory and I use
TOS 2.06. The extra memory used isn't much. You would just be playing it safe
if you use it.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 95        Sat Jan 23, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 06:45 EST

Lou,

The old TOS had a bug that caused nasty things to happen when you hit the
limit.  With newer TOSs there's still a limit (that's not a bug, just the way
things work) but running into it is less of a catastrophe.  It's best not to
hit the limit at all, so all versions of TOS should use FOLDERxxx or the ICD
equivalent to extend the limit.  It's well worth the small amount of RAM it
uses.

  gnox

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 96        Sat Jan 23, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 07:27 EST

Lou,

Ouch. This is a topic that cannot end.

The 40-folder limit will not cause ugly crashes in newer versions of TOS, but
it it still there in a small way. You may never see it.

I have the newest TT TOS and have my folder limit set at 1039 (999 more than
40). I do a lot of file manipulation, so I am extra careful.

Al

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 97        Sat Jan 23, 1993
R.MORROW10 [Bob M.]          at 16:26 EST

Lou-=

The 40 folder bug was squashed in TOS 1.04 and up, or so I've heard.  If you
have an ICD AdSCSI host adapter, it can set it's own caches that probably
won't interfere with DB2.  Also, if you have ICD stuff, you can allocate extra
folders as well.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 98        Sun Jan 24, 1993
AEO.3 [Lyre]                 at 00:24 EST

Al,

An here I thought I was being a bit excessive with an extra 300 folders!
Sheesh, how big is your hard drive?

                                        Lyre

                                        12:17 am, January 24, 1993

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 99        Sun Jan 24, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 01:21 EST

You should add extra folders, either through foldrxxx or a HD driver program
like ICD, regardless of your TOS version.  Although the infamous '40 folder
bug' is no longer a catestrophic event, there are still limitations within
TOS.  Backup or disk utility programs stress the internal memory management
far more than everyday use, it is a good idea to have 100-400 extra folders
allocated depending on the number and cumulative depth of your directory
structure.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 100       Sun Jan 24, 1993
L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine]     at 04:04 EST

Everyone,

 Thanks for the many replies. All of you re-comfirmed what I thought and have
been practicing. Yes, I use the FOLDRXXX.PRG all the time. From what I
understood, Atari recommended this for all TOS versions. I assume the same
would apply to the new Falcons?


  *--== Lou ==--*
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 101       Sun Jan 24, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 05:36 EST

I have 64 extra folders set up in my ICD software and with my 80 meg, 8
partition drive have never seen the message about no folder space remaining.
Users with 1.2 or earlier might want to double that because the logic that is
supposed to release folder space (fixed in 1.4) is broke.  The larger the HD,
or deeper the folders you use, the more space you should reserve, and double
everything for 1.2 or 1.0.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 102       Sun Jan 24, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 11:14 EST

Lyre,

300 megs.

Al

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 103       Sun Jan 24, 1993
AEO.3 [Lyre]                 at 14:53 EST

Ron,

I imagine that the number of folders people set depends on their usage.  I am
constantly bouncing between applications, therefore I have mine set to 300
extra folders.  But then, I also like to keep my hard drive neat with
everything in it's own folder.  For instance I have a folder called MAGAZINE
which holds the online mags I DL - each in its own folder.


Al,

Nice.  While looking through a computer magazine the other day I noticed that
their was a 2.4 gigabyte hard drive for only $2500.  If I had the cash, I'd
have the hard drive.  :)

                                        Lyre

                                        2:48 pm, January 24, 1993


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 104       Sun Jan 24, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 20:09 EST

extra folders.  But then, I also like to keep my hard drive neat with
 everything in it's own folder.  For instance I have a folder called MAGAZINE
 which holds the online mags I DL - each in its own folder.
 -------
    Well, I just HATE organized people.  It isn't so much how many
 folders you have as how many you manage to access before the path
 gets cleared.  The larger the HD, logically, the more folders you
 might read, so you need more folder space, but I doubt you will ever
 see the message about folders full with 340.  Still, those with TOS
 <1.4 should err on the side of too many, rather than too few, as the
 results can be pretty UGLY.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 105       Sun Jan 24, 1993
AEO.3 [Lyre]                 at 23:06 EST

Ron,

Agreed, the results are pretty ugly if you hit the folder limit. That is why
my FOLDRXXX is set to 340.  :)  For about 3 months (wasn't aware of the
problem at that point) I did hit that limit... ::shudder::

                                        Lyre

                                        10:42 pm, January 24, 1993

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 106       Mon Jan 25, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 06:22 EST

A while back I took FOLDRXXX out of my AUTO folder because I heard I didn't
need it with TOS 2.06 and the ICD Host Adapter. When I checked just now to
find out if the ICD software was configured with the folder situation set up,
I couldn't find it. Where do I look?

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 107       Mon Jan 25, 1993
DOUG.W [ICD RT]              at 07:56 EST

Ken,
   HDUTIL.PRG will show you your ICDBOOT settings and allow you to change
them.

--Doug @ ICD

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 108       Mon Jan 25, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 07:58 EST

Sounds like Lyre's a saver, besides being neat. I'm a saver who tries to be
neat, but I've decided to print out online magazines with DUBLPAG4 on my
SLM804, and then discard the files. I rarely go back to them after I read
them, and am not sure I need to keep the hard copy, either.

On the hard drive, I'm doing sorting and pitching. The less junk I keep, the
more space I have for essential stuff, and the less junk gets backed up.

Ken Van
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 109       Mon Jan 25, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 09:03 EST

Lyre,

Even a few gigs might now be enough before long. I am hoping to be up past 1
gig shortly, so I can stop archiving my stuff all over the place.

One of the reasons I have the folder limit set at +1000 is that I have a *lot*
of folders, to aid in file organization. MaxiFile tells me I have 1,100
folders on my HDs at the moment.

Al

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 110       Tue Jan 26, 1993
MUSE [Tomas]                 at 01:12 EST


  Al
 >Even a few gigs might not be enough before long.

 For a second there I thought you were a musician! <g>
 ===Tomas===
 January 25, 1993 @ 10:06:57 pm PST


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 111       Tue Jan 26, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 06:49 EST

Lyre,
    If you have TOS 1.0 or 1.2, I STRONGLY, URGENTLY, recommend an
 upgrade to at LEAST 1.4.  It will make the 40 folder limit a mere
 irritation (alert box warning), rather than a national disaster.
    You might be able to get 1.4 cheap if you can find someone who has
 upgraded to 2.06, or just go all the way to 2.06, if you can.

 -------------

 Ken,
    The extra folder setup is in the HDUTIL configuration setup.

 -------------

 Al,
    WOW  1,100 folders!  What do you do, put one file per folder?  I
 don't think I have that many FILES on my HD.  (only 80 megs).


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 112       Tue Jan 26, 1993
P.DUBE [Elan Soft]           at 18:07 EST

  I am interested in buying a Backpack from Micro Solutions.  It is a tape
backup that plugs into the parallel port.
  Will DBII be able to handle it?

Paul @ Elan

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 113       Tue Jan 26, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 18:33 EST

Tomas,

I was! Then I gave it up, took a step down in life, and became a journalist!

Al

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 114       Tue Jan 26, 1993
AEO.3 [Lyre]                 at 21:42 EST

Ken,

 >Sounds like Lyre's a saver, besides being neat.

Ummm, should I tell everyone now that I keep copies on floppy of *everything*
that I've ever downloaded - even if it was something I decided I could not
use?  Demos, shareware, PD stuff, pictures, text files, etc all go to floppy
after I check them out.  Some things stay on the hard drive because I use
them, most things go to floppy because I do not use them.

The reason I have to keep some of this stuff though is because of my work.
(Notice the signature.)


Al,

Having just checked, MaxiFile informs me that I have 315 folders on my hard
drive.  Mind you, I haven't gotten into DTP and artwork as much as I want to,
so if I really got heavily into that I would definitely need more disk space.

                                        Lyre
                                        News Editor,
                                        ATARI EXPLORER ONLINE

                                        9:15 pm, January 26, 1993

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 115       Tue Jan 26, 1993
R.JANSSEN1 [DAMIAN]          at 23:32 EST

  Wouldn't it be cool to have DB II print filenames on pinfed disk labels
*during* a back-up?  It only shows directories and exclude paths currently,
and automatic disc numbering would help too.  This way you could tell which
archives were split between disks, etc.

It would be another great feature for an already great program!

          'Dig you later,    \\\\
                              o-o
                  Damian.      ~
               (R.JANSSEN1)   \_/

                              [X]


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 116       Tue Jan 26, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 23:43 EST

Thanks, Doug. I looked at HDUTIL.PRG, but must have missed the folder setting.

Bob,

I've no problem backing up until tonight. Because I had made a lot of changes
on the partition I wanted to back up, I zeroed the partion on the SyQuest that
I wanted to back up to. I also deleted the validation file because I wanted to
create a new one when I backed up. I loaded the file I had used before and got
a message the validation file could not be opened and then two bombs. I
eventually got a backup without validation (I'm not sure how). When I
continued to experiment, I found that I would get as far as the screen that
shows the files being backed up, the name of the first file would show up, and
then lockup.

I'm not sure that DataDiet was causing the problem, but I tried turning it off
both via the DataDiet INF file and manually, and with it on and the file size
set for original. I continued to get lockup in every case.

I also tried reinstalling DB.

Do you have any suggestions?

Ken Van


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 117       Wed Jan 27, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 03:42 EST

Ron,

I organize related files in their own folders. They are easier to find that
way, and such #$%^ files as "README.TXT" tend to make a little more sense that
way. (A mild understatement!)

Since I am a GEMified user -- a convert from a command-line-only user a few
years back, via an old-fashioned CLI shell -- and use both NeoDesk and the
3.06 desktop, depending on what sort of work I am doing on the TT, I am able
to place icons on the desktop for click-click execution no matter how deep in
the hierarchy they are.

A lot of others are accessed by function keys, and I also use MaxiFile a lot.

Having a lot of memory helps, too.

Al

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 118       Wed Jan 27, 1993
AEO.3 [Lyre]                 at 18:21 EST

Ron,

Just so that you don't worry about me anymore, I'm using TEC with TOS 2.06.
I'm doing fine.

                                        Lyre

                                        1:36 am, January 27, 1993

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 119       Wed Jan 27, 1993
P.DUBE [Elan Soft]           at 19:16 EST

Bob,

Technical question:
  DBII has an associated RSC file, which is about 47K large.  AES function
rsrc_load of older TOS versions (1.0, 1.2 and 1.4) were not able to load
resources larger than 32K.  Have you rewritten your own rsrc_load function or
is DBII not working on those machines (which would surprise me)?

Paul @ Elan

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 120       Thu Jan 28, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 05:42 EST

Lyre,
    I also save everything to floppy, sometimes more than once.  It
 has saved me downloading things twice when someone in our user group
 asks for something I downloaded, but didn't use.  Doesn't everyone
 save everything?  Actually, I don't save ALL of them, because some of
 the stuff I get doesn't WORK, and I delete those.
 -----------

   >years back, via an old-fashioned CLI shell -- and use both NeoDesk and the

  >3.06 desktop, depending on what sort of work I am doing on the TT, I am
able
  >to place icons on the desktop for click-click execution no matter how deep
in
  >the hierarchy they are.
  >

    It might be heresy to a NeoDesk user, but if you have a LOT of
 applications, you might check out HotWire, which can start your
 applications, password protect your menu, and gives you a LOT more
 programs to run with a click than you can get onscreen.


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 121       Thu Jan 28, 1993
P.DUBE [Elan Soft]           at 18:43 EST

I just take a look at the demo of Diamond Edge, it seems to be a great
program! WOW!

There are tiny errors:
 - in the Show Frag window, the last bar graph (at the right) should read
>100K (and not <100K).  Same thing a bit lower: >4K (and not <4K).

  I'll check with the financial department to see when we can expect to buy
such a marvel of utility.  8-)

Paul @ Elan

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 122       Thu Jan 28, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 22:43 EST

Paul Never heard of the Backpack tape drive that plugs into the parallel port.
It would require a custom driver as it will not appear to the ST as a drive.
Our tape software is designed to drive SCSI tape drives.  You can have Micro
Solutions call us at (503) 620-4919 to talk more about it.

DBII works fine on TOS 1.0,1.2,&1.4 although we recommend 1.4 as the bare
minimum with 2.06 prefered.

Damian - Just wait :-)

Ken - Very strange, try disabling all auto folder and ACC's and upgrading your
ICD driver to the latest version. Then add one back at a time untill you find
out what's killing things. We recommend a bigger hard drive as the alternative
to insufficient storage.



Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 123       Fri Jan 29, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 06:33 EST

Ron,

I know about HotWire. I'm trying to stave off my purchase of the only great
CodeHead utility that I don't own and use. I tried the demo, and maybe because
I like to program, I found my own CLI batchfiles easier ... for ME. Others'
mileage may vary, etc.

Al

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 124       Fri Jan 29, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 08:00 EST

Bob,

I'll let you know if I figure it out. Everything was working fine before.
Never a problem.

I see someone else wondered about the ">" in Edge. ;^)

Ken Van Dellen d8^)

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 125       Sun Jan 31, 1993
DILWORTH [JOHN_D]            at 09:35 EST

  And I just purchased DBII before Christmas. Will there be an exchange/update
policy for DBII owners??

     John D.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 126       Sun Jan 31, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 17:00 EST

Bob,

I'm not having any luck with the problem. The program seems to take very
little time in the space checking procedure before doing a backup, and then
the computer just locks up when the first program shows up in the upper part
of the screen. (Nothing ever appears in the scrolling section down below.)

Here's a Desk Manager setup I've prepared to try to run DB II with little
conflict from anything.

; Desk Manager: DiamondBack

; DESKTOP.INF File

; AUTO Programs DESKMG33.PRG WARP9_ST.PRG HOTWIRE.PRG LGSELECT.PRG

; ASSIGN.SYS File

; Desk Accessories

Please note that I've selected no DESKTOP.INF file, no ASSIGN.SYS file, and no
desk accessories, and the AUTO programs I've selected are fairly conventional
with reputations for stability. I suppose I can try delecting some more.

Later. I deleted WARP9 and HOTWIRE from my setup, and the program appears to
be working okay. I don't know which it was conflicting with. I was able to do
an incremental backup before, but not a full backup. Part of the problem may
have been a misunderstanding.

I thought if my default for backing up specified that I wanted to create a
validation file, one would be created. Instead, I have to click on YES, even
though it is highlighted, and name the file before running the backup
procedure. (Before deleting the above programs from my setup, I got the lockup
even when I followed this procedure.)

Ken Van Dellen

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 127       Mon Feb 01, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 22:12 EST

Yes, there will be an upgrade path to DB3 from DBII.  DB3 will not be released
until after MultiTOS is released.  Background backups are one of the big
enhancements and MultiTOS is a moving target now. That may change depending on
when they do release it.

Ken - I'd suggest you upgrade your Hotwire and Warp 9 because I use both
without difficulties.  So you're loading a .inf file that specifies validation
and it's not creating the file without you explicitly telling it to??  I'll
look at that.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 128       Tue Feb 02, 1993
R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson]    at 02:08 EST

Bob,
  It'll be a long wait if you are waiting on MultiTOS to be released. :-)

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 129       Tue Feb 02, 1993
R.JONES82 [Bob Jones]        at 04:37 EST

I think you should reconsider on Hotwire.  I've used many enviroments but
something about Hotwire keeps me using it.  I feel handcuffed without it.  I
bought and used Neodesk way before Hotwire now Neodesk collects dust on the
shelf.  Hotwire is that good.  Give it another try.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 130       Wed Feb 03, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 06:23 EST

Thanks, Bob. I think I have the latest versions, but am checking.

Ken Van Dellen d8^)

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 131       Wed Feb 03, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 07:35 EST

I _do_ have the latest versions, according to Tomas at CodeHead. I'm looking
for other possibilities.

Ken Van Dellen d8^)

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 132       Thu Feb 04, 1993
J.BRENNER1 [See Flat]        at 19:31 EST

Hi,
   I'd like to order Diamond Back II. Could I do it through E-Mail with a
Cr.Card #. If I can please leave me info via at  J.Brenner1.
                 Thanks in advance.
                                    John Brenner
                                     (Montreal)

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 133       Thu Feb 11, 1993
J.TOWLER1 [John]             at 01:55 EST

Is there any way to add new exclude masks or paths to a configuration without
having to start from scratch? Anytime I've tried by going to 'Select Backup
Paths', DBII insists on adding INCLUDE paths first. If I then exclude the mask
or path and click on view paths, it still shows the path as included. The only
way I've found around this is to completely rebuild my include/exclude paths
and masks if I need to make a change.

- John

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 134       Tue Feb 16, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 02:02 EST

Not in Diamond Back II but the ability will be there for DB3

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 135       Tue Feb 16, 1993
G.ANDERSON                   at 21:14 EST

Ok, so how long before we can expect to get our hands on DBIII?  And,\ just as
important for us cheapskates, how much <grin>?

Gregg
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 136       Sun Feb 21, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 14:16 EST

Gregg,

It will probably be another couple of months before DB3 will be available. The
upgrade price is not set and will be dependent on th printing cost of the
signifiacantly expanded manual.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 137       Sun Feb 21, 1993
ST.LOU [Lou Rocha]           at 15:07 EST

Bob, if you can expand on the excellent manual you had for DB2... then you
must have a really significant upgrade in the works. Can't wait!

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 138       Sun Feb 21, 1993
K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van]        at 18:23 EST

Bob,

I still have to select the validation button in the BACKUP OPTIONS menu even
though it's selected by a default file. Otherwise I get bombs. This takes me
through the Create Validation File procedure, and when I'm doing a full backup
I select overwrite when it tells me the validation file already exists. It
works for me, but I have to remember the one extra manual step.

Ken Van Dellen d8^)

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 139       Mon Mar 01, 1993
A.STUDER1 [Andrew]           at 10:46 EST

Yup, the 40 folder bug WAS fun! NOT!

I wrote a program to create/open new folders endlessly without FOLDRxxx.PRG
enabled.  After so many (I can't remember the exact number), some text appeard
stating that I have exceeded the memory pool allocated, and I should put
FOLDRxxx.PRG in my AUTO folder, SYSTEM HALTED! Instead of destroying data, it
halts your system and forces you to re-boot!


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 140       Tue Mar 02, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 05:14 EST

 >appeard stating that I have exceeded the memory pool allocated, and I should

  >put FOLDRxxx.PRG in my AUTO folder, SYSTEM HALTED! Instead of destroying
  >data, it halts your system and forces you to re-boot!


 *******************8  Warning ****************************
 The above is true ONLY FOR TOS 1.4 AND LATER.
 Earlier TOS versions can do serious damage to the directory
 and FAT if this problem occurs.

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 142       Sat Mar 06, 1993
R.DEAN3 [GUNNER]             at 17:34 EST

Bob;
    What are the chances of seeing DB3 support the Floptical drives like a
floppy so that we can backup BMG partitions to 21meg flopticals?

Gunner
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 143       Mon Mar 08, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 22:08 EST

Gunner,

Multiple volume removable media backups(Syquest, Floptical, SCSI Tape) will be
supported in DB3.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 144       Tue Mar 09, 1993
J.BRENNER1 [See Flat]        at 00:48 EST

Hmmm, I have just purchased Diamond Back and I think it's great.
      Backing to floppy has never been as quick.  I am looking into purchasing
a Syquest drive very soon. I assumed you could just back drive C to drive to,
let's say, drive M or such. Am I to gather that I can't choose to back up on
another logical drive?
 As this seems to be the case how soon are we to expect DB3 and how much will
the upgrade be?  :-)

This is probably the wrong topic but.....I have been using Michtron Toolkit
for years......should I be moving on to Diamond Edge.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 145       Tue Mar 09, 1993
MUSE [Tomas]                 at 01:43 EST

Bob,
 I like hearing about your plans for multiple volume SyQuest backups. Is it
safe assume that this will work with the Supra FD-10 as well?

 ===Tomas===
 March 08, 1993 @ 10:21:09 pm PST


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 146       Tue Mar 09, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 06:01 EST

 >  This is probably the wrong topic but.....I have been using Michtron
Toolkit
  >for years......should I be moving on to Diamond Edge.

   Only if you think upgrading your 1957 Chevvy to a 1993 Cadillac is
 worthwhile...


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 147       Tue Mar 09, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 06:17 EST

See Flat,

You can presently back up any partition to any Syquest partition. What you
can't do (yet) is switch Syquest carts in the middle of a backup, like you do
with floppies.

And yes, you should be moving on to Diamond Edge!   :)

  gnox

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 148       Tue Mar 09, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 23:14 EST

Tomas, yes multiple volumes will be supported on all removable media including
the Supra FD-10.

See Flat,  Yes, you can do HD to HD backups(to Syquest or any other HD media)
by specifying a HD drive as the destination rather than floppy.

DB3 development has been slowed by several factors.  The death of my
Grandmother took about a month out of the schedule, the Falcon OS and MultiTOS
not being final until just recently, and the demands of managing the
international portion of our business have all contributed to a schedule slip.
My current conservative estimate is May/June.  Optimistic estimate is early
May.  Upgrade costs will be dependent on the printing costs of the new manual
and have not been set at this time.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 149       Sat Mar 13, 1993
MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin]     at 00:05 EST

 >   Only if you think upgrading your 1957 Chevvy to a 1993 Cadillac is
  > worthwhile...
  >
 Ron, considering the value of some 57 Chevies, I don't think THAT was
 a good analogy!<g>


 Now, Corvair to Caddy, maybe...


  mike.k


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 150       Sat Mar 13, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 10:21 EST

 >
  > Now, Corvair to Caddy, maybe...
  >

    I Corvair in good shape (if that isn't an oxymoron), would be very
 expensive to acquire now too.  What meant was having to DRIVE one..


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 151       Sun Mar 21, 1993
M.RIVMAN1 [MATT]             at 01:43 EST

Bob-

Hello! Hope all is well with you and yours.

Just wanted to give thanks once again, for the excellence that is apparent in
DBII.  It truely kept me from the brink of insanity tonight when after
cleaning up my boot drive, I found that I could not boot up with my usual AUTO
prg's and ACC's without a 2-4 bomb crash around NeoDesk.  I tried several
things including some undeletes via EDGE to no avail.

No Problem!   < ah, the light begins to glow! >  I have a 2 day old back-up.
Let's restore all in the NeoDesk3 folder!

VOILA! Works like a charm!

Thanks again for a great, and sanity saving program!

Matt Rivman
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 152       Sat Mar 27, 1993
J.BRENNER1 [See Flat]        at 17:58 EST

Bob,
    There has been mention in the CodeHead's Topic area of a Cache program,
(Diamond Cache) you have written. Could you tell us about it and where it can
be found?

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 153       Sat Mar 27, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           at 20:36 EST

See Flat, thank you for moving your thread. The last I read, I think, was it
was dropped from the disc because it wasn't being updated and there were some
compatibility problems.

BTW, Bob is away for a few days.
                                *******Brian*********
        Written on Saturday 27 March 1993 at 09:18 p.m. AST


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 154       Sun Mar 28, 1993
J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER]      at 00:34 EST

Regarding Diamond Cache:

1. Is it a separate program that I have to buy separately or is it supposed to
be included on my Diamond Back disk? 2. What's the cost, if it needs to be
purchased separately? 3. Does it work on a TT? 4. Will it work with partitions
larger than 512 or 1024?

- Jason Saffer
  Hercules, California
  Saturday, March 27, 1993  9:32 pm

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 155       Sun Mar 28, 1993
J.SPANDE [John Spande]       at 11:26 EST

Regarding Diamond Cache:

1) It was a commercial version of Cold Hard Cache by Robert Owens III which
was distributed with Diamond Back when Data Innovations was distributing it.
When Bob broke with Data Innovations he did not get the rights to DiamondCache
since the author was no longer supporting it. He did put the shareware copy of
CHC on the distribution disk however (I don't know if he still does).

2) CHC (or DiamondCache) is extremely compatible and solid. I have never had a
problem with it nor have I even heard of one. It performs extremely well and
has a very nice DA to make settings such as size and number of buffers, print
spooler, etc.

3) It does not work on the TT (or presumably Falcon) and does not work with
large partitions. It is a real shame to have such a first rate program not be
supported and updated.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 156       Sun Mar 28, 1993
R.DEAN3 [GUNNER]             at 13:46 EST

Regarding Cold Hard Cache:

Diamond Back II shipes with Cold Hard Cache in the EXTRAs folder


Gunner
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 157       Sun Mar 28, 1993
J.BRENNER1 [See Flat]        at 17:03 EST

 John Spande,
             Thanks, that states the situation very clearly.


 GUNNER,
        Diamond Cache is not in the EXTRA's folder Diamond Back 2.51 Message #
155 explains the situation well.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 158       Sun Mar 28, 1993
M.RIVMAN1 [MATT]             at 22:21 EST

Bob,

Hope you read this prior to responding to my previous msg's.  I found the
hardcopy of our exchange where you answered the question re: lostclus.dat
files.    Thanks!

Matt
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 159       Mon Mar 29, 1993
C.NICHOLLS [BILL]            at 02:36 EST

I did have some problems with Cold Hard Cache, and stopped using it.
Unfortunately, I can't now remember what they were -- but stopping using it
solved the problems.  I am now using MasterCache 2.76,(in library) and
available as shareware from D.C.Gouthro, even though I have ICD boot cache.
So far no problems, and it does some things even ICD doesn't.

                                                                Bill
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 160       Mon Mar 29, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 05:27 EST

John Spande: thanks for clearing up the Diamond Cache situation.

Bill: do you happen to know whether MasterCache works on the TT and handles
partitions > 32K?

  gnox

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 161       Tue Mar 30, 1993
C.NICHOLLS [BILL]            at 00:50 EST

gnox,

        The Master Cache manual says it works on a TT.  It will also support
large partitions.  The manual is not the easiest to read because the author
has a severe hearing disability, and his syntax is somewhat unusual -- but it
can be deciphered.  So far I am having a good time with it on my Mega STE4.

                                                                Bill
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 162       Tue Mar 30, 1993
G.FUHRMAN [gnox]             at 07:14 EST

Thanks Bill - I think I'll have a look at Master Cache.

  gnox

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 163       Wed Mar 31, 1993
J.MOLNAR4                    at 08:10 EST

Hello

I have a question about backing up my Spectre GCR partition using Diamond Back
II.

I've recently starting using my "fake Mac" in earnest.  However, I ran into a
problem with the image backup.  Clicking only the Spectre partition, I started
running the backup, but quickly ran out of spare disks.

Taking a closer look when I restarted, it seems to require 41 disks. By my
rough estimate judging from the number of disks of software I installed
(doubling to account for packed files) I shouldn't need more that 20 disks
(max).  I hope Diamond Back II doesn't back up blank space, does it?

Help, SOS, Assistance ...


Thanks


Joe Molnar

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 164       Thu Apr 01, 1993
W.PARKS3 [Dr. Bob]           at 01:11 EST

 Joe,
       Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't "Image Backup" mean just that?
 Copy an 'image' of the disk... whatever is there?  I can be totally wrong
 here since I haven't used DB, maybe it does copy just used sectors in
 'Image' mode.

 Bye: Dr. Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 165       Thu Apr 01, 1993
R.MORROW10 [Bob M.]          at 02:26 EST

Joe-

DBII doesn't back up blank space or zero length files, however, it will not
compress files already compressed by ARC, LZH, and so on. It just copies them
directly to the disk.

While DBII doesn't back up blank space, if you have even 1 byte of info (as
the last byte off of drive C), on the last disk in the C saveset, DBII will
leave the rest of that disk blank and ask for a new one when starting to back
up the D drive.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 166       Fri Apr 02, 1993
L.HINSLEY [Stargazer]        at 02:33 EST

Hello Joe...

I am afraid that for Spectre partitions that Diamond Back does indeed do an
Image Backup.  Thus, if your Spectre partition is 40 Megs, you will have to
have 40 Megs worth of diskettes to back the information up on.  It has to work
it this way to remain compatible with the Macintosh file system....

                                      ***** Stargazer *****
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 167       Fri Apr 02, 1993
G.LEONE [Gerry]              at 21:48 EST

Will Diamond Back's Image backup back up any kind of format on a hard disk?

For example, I'm buying a Syquest for use with my sampler.  The sampler
formats the HD with its own custom scheme.  Would DB's image backup backup
that?

  -Gerry
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 168       Tue Apr 06, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 01:04 EDT

Diamond Cache was dropped when BGM partitions came into existance. It did not
support them and the author would not update the program. However, for 512
byte sectors it is an excellent cache.  We are working on buying the code to
improve and update it or writing our own(In my copious free time)

Joe - The current Spectre backup is a true Image backup that backs up all
sectors, as opposed to DBII's intelligent GEM image backup that only backsup
sectors that contain data.  A DB3 feature will include compressed Spectre
backups to reduce the required disks.

Bob - In file backup mode DB2 does backup zero length files.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 169       Tue Apr 06, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 23:54 EDT

Gerry - Right now the Image must be a GEM/BGM or Spectre partition, DB3 will
allow image backups of any kind of partition.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 170       Wed Apr 07, 1993
L.HINSLEY [Stargazer]        at 01:28 EDT

Hello Bob!!!  Long time no see.....

IT HAPPENED AGAIN!!!  I was backing up my hard drive onto 1.44M diskettes and
one of the diskettes went into the negative disk remaining syndrome.  Here are
the particulars of my system and the diskette (which I still have by the way).

System Info: Atari MegaSTE4 with 120Meg hard disk on internal controller
1.44Meg internal floppy

In AUTO folder: AUXINIT    FIX_DUMP   G+PLUS    ICDBOOT(6.0.7) JAR010
NEOLOAD    SERFX20   UIS_III WARP9_ST

ACCESSORIES: NEODESK QUEUE    MULTIDESK DELUXE    CALLIGRAPHER REFERENCE

IN MULTIDESK: XCONTROL   G+PLUS   STENO   WARP_9

Disk Information: Maxell DD/HD diskette formatted with Diamond Format 80T 18S
FaST Format

Diamond Back II version 2.51

TOS reports 34 folders/328 files/2490703 bytes/512 available NeoDesk reports
1457664 total bytes/2490703 bytes used/2 sides
                2880 sectors/80 tracks per side/18 sectors per track
                512 bytes per sector

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 171       Wed Apr 07, 1993
G.LEONE [Gerry]              at 09:07 EDT

 >ORA.TECH                     at 23:54 EDT
 >
 >Gerry - Right now the Image must be a GEM/BGM or Spectre partition, DB3 will
 >allow image backups of any kind of partition.


Ooooooo!  I ask, Bob, because my synthesizer (an Ensoniq EPS) uses *almost*
the same floppy disk format as my STe.  However, when you pop an EPS disk into
the STe, nothing shows in the directory.

So, in other words, DB III will back up Syquest carts that contain my EPS
samples??

  -Gerry
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 172       Thu Apr 08, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 20:01 EDT

Stargazer - Send me the disk please ( or a copy of it)

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 173       Sat Apr 10, 1993
L.HINSLEY [Stargazer]        at 00:35 EDT

Good to hear from you Bob....

You got it.  I'll probably be sending it out next Monday so hopefully you will
get it next week sometime.  I was sitting here watching the backup when I saw
the disk space remaining amount go negative.  After it finished I immediately
took the disk out and write protected it. Hmmm, I try to copy it on another
diskette and see what will happen..

                                         ***** Stargazer *****
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 174       Sun Apr 11, 1993
M.PASEK                      at 20:05 EDT

I see some people talking about Diamond Back III. Is this product out? How w
much does it cost and what are the new features?
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 175       Sun Apr 11, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           at 21:22 EDT

Bob is eorking on DB III. It isn't out yet. I will leave it to Bob to state
when it will be available.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 176       Mon Apr 12, 1993
M.PASEK                      at 21:20 EDT

Okay thanks. I was about to purchase Diamond Back II but I think I will wait
for III
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 177       Mon Apr 12, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           at 21:25 EDT

M.Pasek, DB III won't be out for a little while. If you are not using a
reliable b/u program in th meantime then trouble can occur. IMHO..... Brian
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 178       Wed Apr 14, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 23:18 EDT

Diamond Back III probably won't be out until early summer, although we are
still shooting for the Conn. Atari Show in mid-june.  The DSP compression for
the Falcon is taking longer to implement than originally planned.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 179       Sat Apr 17, 1993
L.HINSLEY [Stargazer]        at 00:57 EDT

Hello Bob....

I sent off the disk that had the problem with having more bytes in files than
actual disk space on Monday.  Hopefully you'll be receiving it shortly.  I
didn't ever see the problem until I upgraded my Diamond Back to V2.51......

I know that Diamond Back III will support tape backups.  Do you have any
specific tape drives or formats that will be supported in the release????

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 180       Tue Apr 20, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 00:22 EDT

Re; SCSI tapes.  DB3 will work with any tape drive that supports the full SCSI
command set for sequential devices.  The tape driver has been tested with
several different models of Archive, Teac, Tandberg, and Fujitsu tape drives
all with complete success.  A full known tape drive compatibility list will be
published on release.

Best regards,

Bob@ORA
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 181       Thu Apr 22, 1993
L.HINSLEY [Stargazer]        at 01:16 EDT

Thanks Bob..   I just got a Archive 250Meg tape drive working on my ICD Link
adaptor and now need some software (like yours :) to drive it....

                                        ***** Stargazer *****
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 182       Fri Apr 23, 1993
TOPNOTCH                     at 04:38 EDT

Bob,

        I've got 2 suggestions for improvements to Diamond Back. First, how
about an option to save your restore configuration. I always forget to click
on "Files are compressed" and wind up having to redo my work. Second, I backup
to two floppys and usually load my drives in advance and hit the <A> and <B>
keys so I can backup with out pausing. Usually, I'm reading a book or magazine
while I'm backing up and I don't always catch when the program switches from
one drive to the other. How about ringing the system bell once when the
programs switches drives. It could be user configurable if not everyone would
like this feature.

                                           Rick

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 183       Sat Apr 24, 1993
G.LEONE [Gerry]              at 00:52 EDT

Question --

I recently got a Syquest and would like to do my full and incremental backups
of my fixed HD to it.  Is this possible?

Also, is it somehow possible for me to backup one Syquest cartridge onto
another, using the same physical drive mechanism?

Thanks in advance!

  -Gerry
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 184       Sat Apr 24, 1993
F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK]          at 15:05 EDT

Gerry,

I also have a Syquest and back up my internal to the Syquest with no problem.
Diamond back does have hard disk to hard disk back up available and works
great with a Syquest. You can back up either from a partition to a partition
or partition to a folder, depends on the partitions you choose on the Syquest.

Syquest to same devise, much like a floppy, is not recommended with DBII, this
was passed on to from Bob L at OERA-TECH.

                            Frank
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 185       Sun Apr 25, 1993
C.NICHOLLS [BILL]            at 01:50 EDT

I second Rick's suggestion of allowing us to save the Restore configuration.
Alternatively, let the default be Files are compresed, because I can't imagine
many users don't compress them, seeing how quick and easy it is.

                                                        Bill
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 186       Sun Apr 25, 1993
A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt]       at 12:28 EDT

Gerry,

Many backup programs will let you back up your HD to SyQuests. I use GOOD.TOS,
a very sold piece of work, but there are others.

You can't back up a SyQuest to a Syquest in the same mechanism unless you have
a TT with 64 megs of ram.

Al

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 187       Sun Apr 25, 1993
G.LEONE [Gerry]              at 23:00 EDT

Frank --

Thanks for the Syquest backup info!  I DO appreciate it!

  Gerry
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 188       Wed Apr 28, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 00:50 EDT

Thanks for the suggestions,  Now is a REAL good tim for them. hint hint nudge
nudge.

Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 189       Wed Apr 28, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 00:54 EDT

Diamond Back II will perform backups to Syquest just fine(and very fast too)
Just specify the destination partition in a HD to HD backup.  You  can even
back up to a folder.  Backing up Syquest to Syquest with only one mechanism is
not practical without a very LARGE amount of RAM, it also puts unnecessary
wear and tear on the cartridges.

Best regards, Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 190       Wed Apr 28, 1993
D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter]      at 21:54 EDT

Bob,

Which reminds me, how about saving that drive/folder specification with the
config (save setup?) files.

I back up my 15 partitions to Syquest a cuppla times a week, each drive to a
different partition over 4 cartridges, and I always forget which drive/name I
was using.  Works great though.

Also - how about a 'GEM" type file/path selector in the source and destination
paths for partial restore?  I hate typing all the layers in manually.  Make
too many mistakes :-)

Doug7
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 191       Thu Apr 29, 1993
T.GIRSCH [TJ @ S-Mart]       at 01:49 EDT

OK, Bob, you asked for it:

1)  You've _got_ to do something to make the include/exclude processor
friendlier.

        a)  put the include/exclude list in a window, so's I
            can scroll through it.

        b)  When excluding/including paths, give me an option to
            exclude/include _just_ this directory, or this directory
            and everything below it (i.e subsidiary to it).

2)  Allow user editable "don't try to compress it" masks.  e.g. DBII tries to
compress SPX files, which takes valuable time, and it ain't gonna happen.
Meanwhile, it doesn't try to compress .TNY files, which (if renamed) compress
quite well if renamed.

3)  Last time I mentioned it you weren't too keen on the idea, but I'll
reiterate:  Allow an _option_ that puts small files (e.g. <= 5K) into one big
file when using compression.  As DBII currently runs, if you have a gazillion
small files and you use compression, you get almost no savings, because 999K
compresses to 200K, but either way you're still using 1 cluster.  If you were
to somehow "merge" or "concatenate" these small files, you could save _much_
more space (at least on _my_ backups).  Certainly make it optional, and only
if compression is used, but _pleeeeeease_ think about including some such
option.  (By the way:  ARC, LZH, ZIP, ZOO, etc., use similar techniques, as
I'm sure you're aware).

3b)  Expanding on the above, when backing up to floppy, one huge file per disk
would be nice, because when used with split files, it would ensure optimum
storage.


More as I think of them....

- T.J.
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 192       Thu Apr 29, 1993
C.NICHOLLS [BILL]            at 02:02 EDT

I second Doug's suggestion of a GEM type or alterative file selector for
partial restorations.  I often forget the right name of a file before I have
typed it in, and have to go back to look.

                                                        Bill
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 193       Thu Apr 29, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 21:15 EDT

Already there Doug :-) (in DB3 that is)

Bob
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 194       Thu Apr 29, 1993
D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter]      at 23:00 EDT

Great, Bob.  Now, how long do I have to wait? :-)

Doug7
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 195       Thu Apr 29, 1993
NTACTONE [Ron Hunter]        at 23:18 EST

 >>I second Doug's suggestion of a GEM type or alterative file        <<
  >>selector for  partial restorations.  I often forget the right name <<
  >>of a file before I have  typed it in, and have to go back to look. <<
  >>                                                                   <<
   A user of an ST should NEVER NEVER have to type the name of a file
 that already exists.  We might as well have IBMs...


 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 196       Fri Apr 30, 1993
C.MASON10 [Mad Dog]          at 01:11 EDT

Bob,

    A minor suggestion for DB III.  It has always irritated me that, despite
the fact I have two floppy drives, the program pauses after each disk fills up
waiting for a keypress.  PCTools keeps the floppies busy and as soon as it
recognizes a media change starts writing to the new disk.  Is it possible to
do something like this with DB III?  I'd like to be able to put two fresh
disks in and do _something_ while they are written.  If I come back and one is
finished, I'd like to be able to pop a new disk in and have the program
continue while I finish doing _something_.

Mad Dog
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 197       Fri Apr 30, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           at 01:13 EDT

Mad Dog,
 you can do that now. Just hit the drive letter when you place the disk in.

 Brian ...  Written on Friday 30 April 1993 at 02:11 a.m. ADT



 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 198       Sat May 01, 1993
ORA.TECH                     at 03:55 EDT

Mad Dog - You can have auto continuation onto the next floppy with DBII now.
Start the backup with a disk in each drive as soon as th backup starts hit the
B key to indicate a disk is ready there.  When A is full, the backup will
automatically continue onto B without further user intervention so you can
walk away while 2 disks are filled, Then while B is working you can put a new
disk in Drive A and hit the A key to have DBII automatically continue onto A
when B is finished and so on.....

While A is working you need to press the B key to indicate it's ready because
the ST does not have a reliable active media change detection method like some
other systems.  Try opening a window for drive A and then changing disks, the
system doesn't automatically know there is a different floppy in the drive
untill you hit the ESC key to force a media change.  I suppose I could have a
selectable option for auto continuation that assumes the disk has been changed
in the next drive auto continuing to the next drive and checking to verify
that the disk has really been changed(actually it already does that to prevent
accidently overwriting a backup disk) hmmm... This could be easier than I
thought to get rid of the key press requirement.


Best regards,

Bob

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 199       Sat May 01, 1993
L.HINSLEY [Stargazer]        at 17:15 EDT

Mag Dog,

Yes, Diamond Back already supports this.   After putting the next disk in the
drive just press the drive letter and the status will go to 'Ready...'.   It
sometimes takes a few presses....

                                    ***** Stargazer *****
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 200       Sat May 01, 1993
J.BRENNER1 [See Flat]        at 20:07 EDT

Bob,
    A/B; I used to use FLASHBACK and it didn't need to be told to change
disks. It would also check that the disk you inserted was not one which was
part of your present back up session. When both disks were full a bell would
ring for me to come into the room and stick in two new disks. This was nice.
However I must state that I am much happier with DB II as it is much faster
and uses half the disks. ;-)
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 201       Sun May 02, 1993
L.HINSLEY [Stargazer]        at 20:13 EDT

  Bob,

The idea of a continual backup session without having to hit the drive letters
sounds like a great idea.  It would be a worth while addition to an already
great backup package.

I've just installed an Archive 250Meg tape drive on my machine so I'm
anxiously awaiting for DB III.... :)

                                        ***** Stargazer *****

 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 202       Sun May 02, 1993
C.MASON10 [Mad Dog]          at 21:35 EDT

Brian,

    Well, I'll be.  I've always sat here like a bump on a log waiting to hit
return!  Is that in the docs?  I'll have to look again.  I must admit I only
resort to them when all else fails.

Mad Dog
 ------------
Category 33,  Topic 2
Message 203       Sun May 02, 1993
BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp]           at 21:45 EDT

Mad Dog,

        If you anything like me, and for you I hope you not [grin], you have
so many manuals that it is impossible to remember/discover everything. That's
the beauty of having topics and developers like this.


 Brian ...      Written on Sunday 02 May 1993 at 10:42 p.m. ADT


 ------------