========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 12 Thu Jan 23, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 20:15 EST Sub: Crazy Dots Graphics Card Discussion of the Crazy Dots video card. Give your Mega ST, TT, or STe a boost! Up to 256 colors at once on a variety of monitors. Even includes hardware "panning" for larger virtual screens. 203 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 1 Thu Jan 23, 1992 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 20:16 EST Gribnif Software has announced the imminent North American release of their new "Crazy Dots" video display adapter for the Atari Mega ST, Mega STE, and TT/030 personal computers. The Crazy Dots video display adapter allows the Atari computer to drive a variety of VGA, Multi-Sync, and other high end color and gray scale displays. The adapter supports resolutions up to 1,664 x 1,200 pixels, and can display up to 256 different colors or gray levels at once. Developed by TKR in Germany, the adapter is the fastest of its kind, offering the ability to switch the display's physical resolution from within any GEM program. Its numerous features include: o Display up to 256 colors or grey levels from a palette of 16.7 million, in any resolution from 320 x 200 up to 1,280 x 800 pixels. o Extended resolution support up to 1,664 x 1,200 pixels in monochrome, four, eight, and sixteen color modes. o Software uses an exclusive "line-a-emulator", for maximum software compatibility (depending on the selected display mode). o Mouse controlled hardware panning, which allows for the display of any virtual resolution, regardless of the monitor's maximum physical resolution. o Connects to any Multi-Sync displays via a regular 15-pin VGA connector. o Uses Tseng Labs's powerful ET-4000 graphics controller. o Includes one full megabyte of display memory, with full Blitter access. o Complete math co-processor support. o Megabus model includes a bus "pass through" and socket for an optional math co-processor. o Includes a special "Video Application Slot" for future expansion options, including: ECL adaptor, Genlock, and True Color display. Crazy Dots is available in two models. The "Crazy Dots Megabus" model, designed to fit into Atari's original Mega ST2 and Mega ST4 computers, is available for $949. The "Crazy Dots VME" model, designed to fit into Atari's Mega STE and TT/030 computers, is available for $999. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 2 Sun Feb 21, 1993 J.SPANDE [John Spande] at 12:30 EST Is CD currently completely compatible with SpeedoGDOS and MultiTOS? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 3 Mon Feb 22, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 17:34 EST John, I have a customer who uses it with Speedo and also MultiTOS. I have used it quite a bit with MultiTOS, though it does require a slightly different version of the driver. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 4 Tue Feb 23, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 21:44 EST I use my CD with both Speedo and MultiTOS (in fact, I'm using it right now) and I have no problems other than when I try to change resolution from the Crazy Dots control (i.e. use a virtual screen) the machine goes crazy and I have to reboot. Maybe the different driver Dan mentioned? -Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 6 Thu Mar 11, 1993 K.MILLER69 [Kyle Miller] (Forwarded) Gribnif, I was wondering if Crazy Dots will be going through a price reduction with the introduction of the Falcon. I know Atari documents the max. rez of the Falcon as 640x480, but I have heard the Falcon can be programmed to reach higher resolutions. This means competition for CD. What will be the future of CD if Atari does not put a VME port on future machines? Thanx! - Kyle A. Miller San Antonio, Texas March 10, 1993 - 11:35:14 pm ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 7 Mon Mar 15, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 12:40 EST Kyle, While there is currently not a price reduction in the works, there is a strong indication that there will be a big improvement in capability for the same price in just a few months. You might be able to get the Falcon to go to slightly higher resolutions by using Overscan, but you can't come anywhere near the 1024 x 480 x 32K colors Crazy Dots can do. If, and when, Atari ever releases a Falcon which has an expansion port, the people at TKR plan to adapt the Crazy Dots to use it. From all indication, Atari does not plan to use a VME port. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 8 Mon Mar 15, 1993 K.HOUSER [Kevin MQ Def] at 13:12 EST Too bad they don't keep the original CD around at much reduced prices when they introduce one with improved capabilities at the original $$$. Sigh... another card that is more than I can justify spending for improved color/rez on my old ST. Oh well... maybe a used CD will do... --Kevin ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 9 Wed Mar 17, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 01:00 EST As far as the VME in future machines issue, in Dateline 5 I think it is, I asked Bob about it, and he said: "Chris, obviously I can't make promises about such a prospective product with certainty, but I will be happy to encourage that suggestion to the design team. We use the graphics cards here at Atari as well, and believe me, we hate spending money we don't need just as much as you hate to." (BTW, I quoted this from the Current Notes transcript of the RTC, so I guess I should add (c) 1992 by Atari Corporation, GEnie and the Atari Roundtables) so, while there was no definite response the reaction seems hopeful... Also, in the same issue of Current Notes (Feb 93) there was a good article about expanded graphics that mentioned the CD! Now, to my question: I bought Truepaint, and it bombs out completely when running in 15 bit mode, and also when I drag a window off the right side of the screen, it visually "wraps around" as if the driver file isn't clipping properly. It seems like the CD32KDRV.SYS is a bit buggy... is there and update soon? (yes, I did reinstall all the CD files and it still happened) I'd very much like to use TruePaint... ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 10 Wed Mar 17, 1993 M.LEE3 at 20:17 EST Dan, Is there any way to speed up Crazy dots? Maybe you know of an screen accelerater that I don't. Thanks, Mike L. P.S. I noticed in screen shot from various ads in magazaines, there is a NVDI in the list of auto boot programs. What does that do? Thanks again! ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 11 Fri Mar 19, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 14:29 EST Mike, NVDI is a German program which comes in two versions, one for regular ST/TT video modes, and one for cards which use the Tseng chip, like Crazy Dots does. The ET4000 version is supposed to be much faster and much more compatible than TKR's drivers. I am in the process of buying a copy of the Tseng version from TKR so that I can try it out here. If all works well, we will buy more copies to re-sell to Crazy Dots owners. Please note, though, that the documentation and programs are completely in German. (And, just to let you know, we have no intention of importing the ST/TT version of NVDI.) Chris, Who does TruePaint? If it's Lexicor (I can't keep all of these new product straight anymore), then I do know that John Cole has a board right now, which he is using to test compatibility with. I don't rule out a bug in the driver, with respect to the blitting problem, but it does not seem as likely, given that clipping does work well in the programs I use. If it crashes in 32K mode, that may be just because the program is writing directly to the video memory and making an assumption about how it is configured (Crazy Dots uses a different layout from the Falcon.) Kevin, Unfortunately, we don't keep much stock of this product on hand, we order it pretty closely with what we need. Certainly, if I find out that TKR has a number of "old" boards they are trying to get rid of at cheaper prices, I will let you know, though. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 12 Fri Mar 19, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:40 EST True Paint, is published by Hi-Soft and will distributed in America by oregon Research. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 13 Fri Mar 19, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:37 EST Well, the clipping of the window problem was on the desktop. As to Truepaint, if the Cd board has a different mapping for 15 bit color than the CD, then that makes sense. ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 14 Fri Mar 19, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 22:46 EST Dan, Just out of curiosity, what is the ST/TT version of the NVDI driver for? Why would one need a special driver for normal resolutions? Watching THIS development with great interest :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 15 Thu Mar 25, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 17:31 EST Doug, There are two versions of NVDI, one for Crazy Dots, and another which speeds up the normal ST and TT resolutions (like Warp 9 does.) Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 16 Fri Mar 26, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 03:05 EST Dan, Ah! I see now. Keep us updated on your NVDI experience. Thanks. Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 17 Sat Mar 27, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 03:04 EST I've tested both and found Warp9 to be quicker than NVDI. That's my personal preference. My UK distributor uses the CrazyDots NVDI driver and a Turbo030 board, and is AMAZED at how quick it is. The CrazyDots version of the NVDI was writen by a different set of programmers, and is very good, it is a total replacement for the stock CrazyDots drivers, has a CPX to control it, etc. Really quite nice. Although I must confess, I haven't figured out how to set it up yet, so I anxiously await Dan's results. I should learn German one of these days ;-) ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 18 Tue Apr 06, 1993 J.DINGA at 23:30 EDT I am trying to use Warp 9 with the CD8. Is there anyway of useing it or am I going or am I going to wait on NVDI? Since there are 16million colour CD's announced at CEBIT by TKR, does this me this mean there will be addons to current CD8 to increase colours and/or (especially for me) pixel rates? I can only hope :) Maybe a tradein offer..........I'm in heaven :) ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 19 Fri Apr 09, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 00:48 EDT Does Warp 9 work on the Crazy Dots boards in 16 colors and less? Or is it hard coded to the ST/TT resolutions? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 20 Fri Apr 09, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 17:00 EDT John & Ed, Warp 9 will not work with the Crazy Dots board in anything but monochrome. This due to the fact that Crazy Dots uses a totally different method for storing the screen data. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 21 Sat Apr 10, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 00:32 EDT Dan, You said Warp 9 won't work with the Crazy Dots in anything but monochrome. Does that include other non-ST-standard monochrome modes, such as 1024x768 and 800x600, or just ST and TT high res? Thanks. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 22 Sat Apr 10, 1993 J.DINGA at 00:52 EDT Dan, please clarify on how to use Warp 9 with CD8, as I understood from a previous message that a special NVDI would be imported to take care of screen acceleration - I am only running in mono, at 1040 x 900, v of 1600 x 1200...........thanks........Jon ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 23 Thu Apr 15, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 14:44 EDT Ed, Warp 9 will not work with Crazy Dots in *any* color resolution, because they all use a different method for storing the screen data than normally used in ST and TT resolutions. It makes no difference what resolution you are using, if it's color it won't work. Again, I do not want to say that this is Warp 9's "fault". The fact is that Crazy Dots does things differently than the normal Atari video chips do it. Jon, As far as I know, Warp 9 should work in mono, as long as it is capable of using the particular screen resolution you use. I believe that Warp 9 will handle any width and height screen automatically (unlike Turbo ST, which had a special version just for the Moniterm) but I could be wrong. I will give it a try when I get a chance. I still haven't gotten my evaluation copy of NVDI-4000 from TKR, so I'm afraid I don't have any news about that yet. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 24 Sat May 01, 1993 J.DINGA at 00:21 EDT DAN, Any word on my Warp 9 problem? Also, any news on the New CD from Germany as Yet? I'm really interested if they increased the pixel rate! Is there a listing of what is available for the 'expansion slot' ? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 25 Mon May 03, 1993 JLS [John STanley] at 02:48 EDT A few questions...: Can a CrazyDots board fit into a Mega4 along with a mini-ICD internal hard drive? What is the current cost for the CrazyDots board? Can the CD board be used with the normal ST monitors (mono or color) and if so, how does the max resolution using those monitors differ from using a good multisync or SVGA monitor? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 26 Mon May 03, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 12:42 EDT JLS, I can't guarantee that the Mega version would fit into the case with a hard drive. The card takes up the area from the bus connector to the back of the case, and very little more, but I have no idea how much space your HD takes. Even if it does fit, you will probably still have to get a better power supply, since the one in the Mega is not very robust. The retail price for the CD 8 is $849.95, and the 15 is $999.95. It can be used with the normal ST monitors, if you build an adapter cable. (I can send you a description of this.) You can get slightly better than the 640 x 200 and 640 x 400 you normally get, but not by too much. An SVGA monitor is definitely preferable. Jon, A few messages back, I explained why Warp 9 cannot work in any of the color modes on the Crazy Dots board. Were you having problems in mono? I can't recall now. Nope, nothing new on the enhanced board yet. They are having trouble getting some of the SMD parts. As far as I know, right now the only thing available for the expansion slot is the 32K color module; there may be some news on the third-party Genlock board, though. I'm waiting for a response from TKR. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 27 Thu May 06, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 16:30 EDT I can testify to the CrazyDots working JUST FINE with the internal ICD drive kit. In fact I've got a customer that has the CD, an LPS240 inside, and a Turbo030 board. We had to move the drive to hang upside down from the top of the computer to make room for the Turbo030, but it all fit fine. One caveat: There is a problem of noise on the +12V line introduced by having the hard disk inside. This same +12V line is used by the CD to make a second "clean" +5Volt supply for the analog video output circuit. The only way to fix this is to redesign the little +5Volt powersupply on the CD. I did this by removing the 82 Ohm resistor that the +12V goes through, and soldered on a 7805 +5Volt IC Voltage Regulator...available from Radio Shack for $3. The "Input" of the 7805 goes to the the +12V signal, the GND terminal goes to ground, and the "Output" of the 7805 goes to where the 82 Ohm resistor used to be. If someone needs this mod done, they can send the board over to Fast Tech or back to Gribnif (I'll explain how to do it to Dan) to get it done. But this is only needed if you use a CD in the MegaST, with an internal hard drive. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 28 Sun May 09, 1993 J.DINGA at 18:53 EDT Jim Allen, Should this 'mod' be done on a MSTE, as well? I am buying a BEST p powersupply because my 19" mono would 'wave' when ever the internal hard drive was accessed, even for 'stiction prevention' moves. This stopped when I got fed up and moved the drive to the external case, but I eventually will want to put another drive internally......;-) Thanks for the info ppsstttt.........hows my tt030/50 comeing along ? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 29 Mon May 10, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 02:59 EDT Depends on the MegaSTe, probably... mine has an internal drive and a Crazy dots and there's no problem... ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 30 Mon May 10, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 18:13 EDT Jon, I've talked to Jim about this, and the problem in the Mega 2/4 is related to the type of power supply it uses, and the fact that both it and the Crazy Dots are using the same 12 volt line. You should not have this problem with a Mega STe. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 31 Mon May 10, 1993 J.DINGA at 22:38 EDT Dan, I _shouldn't_ get this problem? hmmmm, well I get this sort of ' 'ripple' effect on the right end of the screen whenever there was hard drive access on the internal Seagate...._very_ annoying.....so I was trying to find ways of correcting it without haveing to send equipment out for repairs. Jims 'mod' sort of looked like it might be the way to go, but I'll just have to wait for a new powersupply and see if it helps any at all.........any other suggestions? JON ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 32 Fri May 14, 1993 JLS [John STanley] at 00:52 EDT Jim, thanks for the info on getting the CD card to work properly with an ICD internal in the Mega. I suspect your note just saved me several hours of guesswork. THANKS! ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 33 Fri May 14, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 02:57 EDT Actually, I had a user with a VME Crazydots read me some parts values and they did use the same circuit. It is actually the "analog +5Volt" powersupply that is part of the CrazyDots design that is the root of the "wiggle". They used a simple zener diode circuit to knock +12V down to a "hopefully clean" +5.6V. So, if the MSTE of even TT powersupply hard any weakness or heavy loading on it's 12V powersupply output, you _could_ suffer the same problem. THe fix is a simple one, the 7805 IC Voltage Regulator is available at Radio Shack, and is easy to install. I'll draw a diagram for Gribnif so they can send it to CD users. I've had to do this fix on two CDs, on for use with an internal Hdrive Mega, and the other on a Mega with just a wimpy +12V supply. John, it's almost done, I'm working against the clock to get them out before I loose my mind ;-) ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 34 Fri May 14, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 13:37 EDT Just for the record and to avoid any possible confusion, Calamus SL will run in 1,4 8 and 32/24 bit. It will not work in 16bit. This is the fault of Calamus SL, not the Crazy Dots card. Please do not use 16 bit mode when running Calamus SL. Thank you. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 35 Sat May 15, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 09:04 EDT Nathan, I have one thing to say...AAACK! Dan, Toad advertises a new "NVDI" driver in the May CN. Is that the one that you were looking for? mumble... mumble... Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 36 Sat May 15, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 12:34 EDT There is a specific NVDI for the CrazyDots, perhaps Toad can special order it for you, or just wait for Dan to make it available. I ordered a copy for myself from Germany, it hasn't arrived yet. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 37 Wed May 19, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 11:58 EDT Everyone, I talked to TKR on the phone the other day, and they say that they will be filling my order for Crazy Dots II board within the next few weeks. At that time, I will also let everyone know how they can upgrade their original Crazy Dots boards. Doug, Yup, the NVDI driver is the one I was talking about. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 38 Sat Jun 05, 1993 J.DINGA at 16:32 EDT Dan, I am still running into 'quirks' useing the CD8. I know from the manu manual that it defaults to LowRes for bootup, but is there any fix for thi now available ? PLEASE !! :) Also, useing 'SHOW' with TOS 2.05, I acan read can read the 1st page of text, but after that, I just have a repeating line of text marching down the screen when I hit the 'space bar', with only 1 line of text changeing [at the bottom of my 48 line screen] Any news on that NVDI, as yet? ttyl JON ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 39 Sun Jun 06, 1993 J.DINGA at 21:45 EDT Dan, In terms of where they should be, is the .INF belong in the AUTO folder or the CR_DOTS folder? Also, the .PAL ? I fully realize what the manual says, but when VMG.PRG looks for .INF, it looks for the file in the CR_DOTS folder, not in the AUTO folder as the manual says..........and I thought I had my set up all OKAY until I tried to start 'playing' with virtual resolutions. Why would my screen image keep shifting to the left (as I face the screen)? I can reset it with my .ACC, but its a bother! Thanks.....................JON ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 40 Tue Jun 08, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 03:25 EDT Well, I guess it's time for me to ask my list of CD questions, too: 1) NVDI!!!! When? 2) I've got lots of troubles with the 32,000 color driver. It doesn't clip windows properly when dragged off the right egde of the screen (even in the desktop) they just visually copy over to the left edge. Also, some colors "flicker" when drawn. It's most noticeable in the demo program that shipped with the board. a set of colors (actually several "U" shaped clusters scattered throughout) just randomply flicker to black occasionally. This happened both with my current board and the original broken board, so I don't think it's a hardware problem. 3) Multitos compatability? Whenever I switch the "resolution" in the CD acc program under MTOS, the screen goes crazy and I have to reboot. 4) I can't do 32,000 colors under any GDOS but the AMC GDOS that ships. Since I use Speedo, this is a problem for now. 5) _Sometimes_ when I switch the driver file I'm using (such as from 256 colors to 16, but not from 16 to mono) when I get to the desktop, the mouse doesn't update properly. it only shows it's position when something else is drawn, such as a menu selection, or dragging a rubberbox. If I reboot and leave the settings alone, the problem fixes itself. 6) Are there any plans to allow more dynamic switching of resolution and colors other than at boot-up? I know that these pretty much are for "The Germans" but if you could pass them along or add my name to the list of those asking these questions, it would be a big help. Thanks, ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 41 Thu Jun 10, 1993 M.ANGIER [Mike Angier] at 00:56 EDT Howdy from Texas... I am still having a little problem with Crazy Dots (8 bit) VME on my TT with SoftLogik's PageStream. When running in color mode, I get system crashes if I ever try to use lines thicker than 2 or 3 pixels. I have not heard of any new drivers since getting a beta driver from Gribnif dated 2/15/92. Softlogik claims that their software will work with the Crazy Dots board, but it fails with my system. Also, Universal item selecto III crashes in color mode with the board. What I would like to know is if there is any way to improve compatability with this board either with a new driver or with an external interface layer. Thanks... Later, Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 42 Tue Jun 15, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 10:41 EDT Mike, I'll send you the most recent driver, which is 7/29/92. I specifically tested this with thick lines in PGS, and it works fine for me now. The trick to UIS is to set it not to blit the area under itself. This is done by clicking on the "Universal Item..." line in the setup dialog. UIS uses Line A graphics to do the blit/unblit, which won't work right otherwise. I've been trying to find the time to do a Line A to VDi converter, but I've just got too many projects going right now. Jon, I'm not sure I understand what you mean about it defaulting to low rez for bootup. It should be going to whatever resolution you last used every time. As for "Show" from the desktop, I just tried it in 256-color mode, and it works fine. You should probably make sure that CDMANAG has [F2] set for "Grafik" and [F3] set for "Text". I'm still waiting for NVDI. Sigh. I just faxed again this morning. I just looked through VMG with a file editor, and the only place it looks for the default INF file is in the AUTO folder. The same goes for CDMANAG. CDCTRL looks for both its resource and the DEFLTxx.PAL file in the CR_DOTS folder of the boot drive. I've been using things this way for some time now. Probably the reason why the screen shifts to the left is because the horizontal sync needs to be moved slightly. The way to do this is: 1. Run VMG and give it the right info. 2. Set the test pattern option to "on". 3. Load a resolution. 4. Click with the right mouse button to enter the test pattern mode. 5. Click and hold the left mouse button while moving the mouse. This will allow you to reposition the grid and center it properly. 6. Save this resolution. 7. Repeat 3-6 for each rez in your CR_DOTS.INF. Please note that the default screen (yellow on blue) cannot be affected this way: you are only modifying what comes up after the desktop appears. The blue screen may be slightly shifted, depending on your monitor. Chris, NVDI: see above. I'm trying... The flickering is something that happens with some 15-bit modules. I can either swap the module you have, or you can wait for the CD II upgrade (which will cost you exactly what it costs us to do, and that will be about $20). I'm going to announce the upgrade path as soon as we get some of the chips in. I just tried changing rez, and you're quite right. It beats me why this only happens when MiNT is running. I'll let TKR know about it. I haven't tried it with Speedo, but it does work with the version of Atari's GDOS that we now ship with CD. I can send it to you if you don't have it in the GDOS folder. In any event, I'll also ask TKR about Speedo. I'm not sure how easy it would be to write a small program to handle non- virtual rez changes, even under MultiTOS. I've noticed that if you tell AES 4.0 to change rez to the same VDI device that is already active (which is what you'd have to do in order to change the overall screen size while staying in the same number of bitplanes), the AES just ignores the request. A program could be written to change to a new rez, as long as it's a different number of bitplanes, though. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 43 Tue Jun 15, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 23:13 EDT Dan: Thanks for the info! CDII for only $20? sounds like a deal to me. Isn't that supposed to be the 24 bit version? Thanks also for the info on the VMG (even though it wasn't my question) I've always wanted to have it remember the shifting I had set. :) As for the changer, why not do two requests, one that changes to another bit depth, and then the second change to bring you to the rez you asked for? :) That would work, and be seamless to the user. If the CD can't work with Speedo (yet) in 15 bit mode, I'll wait, since if I have to change to normal GDOS to run it, there's no difference for me between AMC GDOS and Atari GDOS. Looking forward to the CDII info! ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 44 Tue Jun 15, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 23:53 EDT Dan: Actually, if you have the time to talk about what it would take to write such a program, I might be able to look into it. I've got Laser C (the last version they produced) and lots of GEM reference books, and I think it would be fun to crash my puter in new and interesting ways in order to get something I want. :) Let me know in Email if it's too involved to discuss here. ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 45 Wed Jun 16, 1993 L.TRAPANI [Lou][Machine] at 00:44 EDT Is there any one out there using the new Crazy Dots II card yet? I would like to add a graphics card to my TT, but can not decide on the best choice. Any input on the new CD II card would be appreciated. Thanks... --Lou T.-- Written: Wednesday, June 16, 1993 00:38 a.m. EDT ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 46 Tue Jun 22, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:09 EDT Lou, We still haven't gotten in the CD II boards yet. I'm ready to jump as soon as they do come in, though. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 47 Sat Jul 03, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 22:08 EDT So, does anyone here have any experience with the Crazy Dots II? For me, it's either that or the Nova card. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 48 Sun Jul 04, 1993 J.KOSIOREK1 [Jack.K] at 11:43 EDT Hi Ed I just got Crazy Dots II this week. I've been playing with it for a little while now. It fits in the VME slot on my MegaSTE. I find the physical/virtual screen sizes really useful for zooming in on Pagestream documents. I have already made some "custom" screen sizes to suit my monitor and me just fine. It is really nice to be able to tailor the video to the capabilities of my monitor. I can't say I've had a lot of experience with Crazy Dots II, but I like what I've seen so far Jack ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 49 Sun Jul 04, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 18:39 EDT Thanks for the report Jack!! As you gain more experience with the CD II, please let us know how you like it. Even let us know about problems or things that you think are awkward about it. Is Pagestream your main software, or do you use a lot of other stuff? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 50 Mon Jul 05, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 18:10 EDT How fast is the CrazyDots II as compared to a High-Res display on your MegaSTe? Oh, and what resolution/color combo were you running it at? I'm seriously curious as to how the current boards (Nova, CrazyDots II, Sunrise, ????) compare in terms of compatibility, speed, and ease of use. From what I can gather NONE of them let you run much in the way of entertainment packages..... ok, GAMES!!!!! There, I said it... I feel better now . Gregg ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 51 Mon Jul 05, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 20:17 EDT The Gem Nethack that was uploaded recently (version 1.1) works flawlessly on the Crazy Dots board, so I've got at least one game to play! ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 52 Tue Jul 06, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 22:50 EDT Dan, You guys going to have the CrazyDots II card at the Mist show? Any special price for the show? Ill have my Mega STE sitting there in our clubs booth..... I would assume that Warp 9 doesn't work with the CD II card? Can you turn off the graphic accelleration and still use the screen saver/mouse accelerator features? Also if it doesn't work are their plans to remedy this? Mike Look forward to seeing you guys at Mist! ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 53 Thu Jul 08, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 00:21 EDT Warp 9 works minus acceleration in Monochrome. Nothing in color. Actually, you can get acceleration if your screen size is 640 pixels wide, but that seems to negate the effect of having a graphics card. :) For screen acceleration, there is a special version of NVDI coming out RSN (right, Dan?) ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 54 Sat Jul 10, 1993 J.KOSIOREK1 [Jack.K] at 20:32 EDT On my MegaSTE the screen speed seems to be about the same speed or maybe a little faster at comparable resolutions. It only gets slower at higher resolutions with more colors. Even at 256 colors the speed is pretty much the same. The most notable slowdown I have seen is scrolling text in high resolution and true color modes. I have not tried any speed testing but I think the monochrome modes at standard ST resolutions are probably faster, but it is really only my impression. Jack ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 55 Sun Jul 11, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 23:57 EDT True, for "comparable" resolutions it is about the same, but I didn't spend $900+ on a CD-15 to do 650 x 400 monochrome. ;) ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 56 Mon Jul 12, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 17:29 EDT Chris, Yes, I finally have the NVDI specifically designed for boards which use the Tseng chip. Now, we're just trying to work out a deal with the authors of the program, so it won't cost so much for you to buy it . Mike, Yes, Rick will be there with a Crazy Dots card. And, yes, there will be a special show price. You are correct. Warp 9 does not work with Crazy Dots. The mouse accelerator might, but none of the other features would. Whether or not Warp 9 will be updated to work with the different way that Crazy Dots uses video memory, is up to the Codeheads. I suggest you ask them. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 57 Tue Jul 13, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 01:11 EDT I hope NVDI is cheap, since I bought my CD-15 for more than the price of the new (and better )CD II board. ;) But then again, I'll probably pay what it takes to get it. :) That along with Geneva should make a nice combo for my Mega. ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 58 Wed Jul 14, 1993 J.KOSIOREK1 [Jack.K] at 21:39 EDT I got a little curious and just had to run a program to find out the "speed" of CD-II. My computer is a MEGA STE TOS 2.06. For a test program I took the HiSoft BASIC example program that dumps a file to the screen in ascii and text. I just does text and scrolls it on the screen. I used a rather short ascii file as the test file. This wasn't a very scientific benchmark, but it is a good test of the various resolutions. In monochrome 640 x 480 CD II took 15.63 seconds to scroll the file. STE standard monochrome took 12.77 seconds. The Crazy Dots 2 in all the other color modes (4,16 and 256) took nearly identical times (within .1 seconds) and averaged 5.95 seconds. Standard Medium resolution took 13.13 seconds and standard low took 18.134 seconds. I repeated all tests, and averaged the results. I also tried it in 256 color 640 x 400 and the results were still within the .1 second time I recorded for the other Crazy Dots times. In true color mode the scrolling crawled along at 103.39 seconds. But who would scroll test in true color mode anyway. I hope this clarifies any comments made on the speed of CD II, and I also hope, I don't have to go back to the standard resolutions. Jack ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 59 Wed Jul 14, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 22:20 EDT Jack, how about posting some 'standard' benchmark test results? Say; QuickIndex 2.2, NBI, GemBench II, etc..... Then we could compare them to the same tests run on the Falcon, TT, MegaSTe, and what-have-you. I'm looking forward to seeing the CDII at the BlueRidge AtariFest next week. Gregg ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 60 Thu Jul 15, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:13 EDT Dan, Is there going to be a upgrade path for existing CD15 owners? Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 61 Sat Jul 17, 1993 J.KOSIOREK1 [Jack.K] at 11:29 EDT Hi Gregg I don't own any of those benchmark programs, and I don't know if they would really help. If I can get my hands on some, I will give it a try. Interestingly, I did some tests at 8mhz and 16mhz. On the ST standard resolutions, there was about a 15-20% improvement at 16mhz. Using CD II, the improvement was 40-50% or almost twice as fast. I think the CD II must be freeing the 68000 to do more things, but that's just a guess and opinion. This program reads the file and then formats it in HEX and ASCII for output to the screen. I wanted something more than just scrolling text. I think this is more of a "REAL LIFE" situation. Jack ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 62 Sat Jul 17, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:30 EDT Jack, I don't even know if the standard benchmarks would run on a third party board. I'd suggest the original Quick Index and GemBench II. I know GemBench II is available here on GEnie and does a fairly 'in depth' series of tests... I understand it's from Europe and tends to favor the European software acellerator (NVDI?) over Warp 9/QuickST.... Still, it may be of interest to see how it looks on a graphics board. A true doubling of graphics-related performance would be useful. Gregg ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 63 Wed Jul 21, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 14:28 EDT Everyone, You can upgrade from a Crazy Dots 8 or 15 to the Crazy Dots II by sending it to Fast Technologies. The cost is just $20 + $5 S&H. Call Jim Allen at (508) 475-3810. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 64 Wed Jul 21, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:12 EDT Tell me again exactly what the differences are between the CD 8, 15, and CD II... I'm afraid some of the details have slipped my rather slipry mind. By the way, who's going to represent Gribnif at the BlueRidge show this weekend? Gregg ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 65 Wed Jul 21, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 23:05 EDT What's the max rez at 24 bit color on the CDII? ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 66 Thu Jul 22, 1993 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 00:26 EDT Dan &/or Jim, What does the 'upgrade' include. ie. is it a solder on 'kit'? And what pixel rate is available on it? Looking for Jim to install if I get the 'right STuff' as a reply . !!!! ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 67 Thu Jul 22, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 10:39 EDT The upgrade from a CD8/15 to the CD II requires a change of the color palette chip. THis is a surfacemounted chip that must be removed and a more advanced one soldered in its place. This is accompanied by a new revision of the driver software that has 24bit support in it. The controller chip was always able to do 24bit at 640x480, it just needed a different color palette chip and the SW to support it. The max. pixel clock stays the same, so the higher res's stay the same, but a VGA 24bit res is added. From my understanding of it. I haven't used the new driver yet, looking forward to seeing CalamusSL in 24bit though! ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 68 Thu Jul 22, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:09 EDT So, Jim. Now that you're here, do we need to call you still to arrange for the upgrade? I know I want it. Email maybe? ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 69 Sun Jul 25, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 19:42 EDT Doug7 and other CD owners, Can you expound a little on what it takes to run GDOS applications on the Crazy Dots boards? From what I've read in this RT, it sounds like there's some special Crazy Dots GDOS drivers that are needed? Does the CD work with SpeedoGDOS? Thanks. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 70 Mon Jul 26, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:08 EDT Ed, Crazy Dots doesn't really use any "special" drivers other than monitor-info files, an Auto folder program, and .SYS files. Officially it comes with, and uses AMCGDOS, but I have had it running on GDOS and now, SpeedoGDOS. Yes, Speedo works fine. :-) I did have trouble with both G+ and my original 1987 version of GDOS. CD15 needs 3 slots in the Assign file (05, 07, & 10) for the various color level .SYS files in the GEMSYS folder. The 24 bit CD2 may use another slot. I just installed Atari Works and SpeedoGDOS, and getting CD to work was easy - once I found out I could merge old and new ASSIGN.SYS files (Thanks, AL!) I'm a GDOS idiot, in case it doesn't show ;-) CD is very stable and most progs run well on it at higher rezs. My main exceptions are WordWriter2 (goodbye, old paint) and LHARC utilities, all versions. LZH and Atari's own "Show Document" feature both have problems scrolling the screen - It doesn't scroll in these two :-) I should mention that LHARC _works_ fine, you just can't see what you are uncompressing if the list is longer than 24 lines or so. My versions of MVG and IMGCAT don't work at higher rezs either :-( But, I just flip a VGA switch and reboot into one of the stock TT rezs for those few problem progs. BTW, whatever GDOS is doing for CD, it doesn't slow things down noticeably. For instance, Calamus SL is just as fast, or _slightly faster_, in 800x608 mono as it is in ST HI. Hope that answers your questions :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 71 Tue Jul 27, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 00:32 EDT Thanks Doug7! Dan, are the CDII VDI drivers the same or similar to the ones in the original Crazy Dots? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 72 Tue Jul 27, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:23 EDT Doug, My question on CD concerns the way my TT (all TTs, actually) handles the SVGA monitor I use. It leaves a wide gap top and bottom. Will I be able to fill the screen if I use CD? Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 73 Wed Jul 28, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 00:22 EDT Al, I have read it enough times here to believe that all, if not most, VGA/SVGA monitors leave part of the screen unfilled. My Nec 4fg certainly does in standard TT resolutions. But CD is a different matter alltogether. I'm happy to report that 800x608 and 1024x768 (as high as I go) fill the entire CRT. Some _programs_ however, do not use all the additional space. As I type this, Aladdin is giving me a 608 pixel wide "edit window", but the entire rest of the program leaves about 20% of the right side unfilled. Wordwriter is another example. Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 74 Wed Jul 28, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:29 EDT Al, Like Doug said, you can do "overscanning" with Crazy Dots, to give you access to the areas of the monitor which are normally black. Of course, this varies greatly depending on which type of monitor you use. Ed, The CD II video drivers are the same, with the exception of the 15-bit driver, which has been fixed slightly. There is a newer version of the CD_MANAG.PRG which needs to be used with a CD II. Chris, To figure the max rez at 24 bit, take 1024000 and divide by 3 (bytes per pixel). That's 341333 pixels available. This means that you could have a screen of 640 x 500 without any problem. Gregg, Sorry I couldn't answer before now, but as you know, Rick was at the Blue Ridge show. To answer your question, the Crazy Dots II is the only card we are selling now. It supports color modes up to 24 bit True Color. Jim (& everyone else), I don't want to mislead people: right now, there is no 24-bit video driver for Crazy Dots. There is only a demo program. However, NVDI is being upgraded to include 24-bit support, and when we being to sell it, this is the version we want to be giving people. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 75 Thu Jul 29, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:21 EDT Doug, Thanks! That's a big help. When Aladdin provides a 600-pixel-wide window, the space on the side can be used for, say, a desk accessory, right? BTW, my ADI MicroScan goes to 1024X768 nicely, as I have found by swapping it onto my PC. The CDII sounds like my ticket to heaven. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 76 Thu Jul 29, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 18:46 EDT Any possibility of doing an adapter from the MEGA (not MSTE) to VME? How hard would it be to make one up? Has anyone done one? ~~~~Brian ... Written on Thursday 29 July 1993 at 07:43 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 77 Fri Jul 30, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:02 EDT Al, I don't know what to tell you about an accessory on the right side. Never seen one that wasn't anchored to the left side or center screen. BTW, the text editor in Aladdin _does_ go to the right side. Alladin's basic window goes all the way to the right edge. The terminal and message screens cut off at 80 columns, leaving the balank space _within_ Aladdin's main window. Make any sense? You will LOVE having the higher resolution. I can't even handle TT med anymore. I can't speak about the other cards, but my CD has definitely enabled improved productivity (read: $$$). Dan, Then are you saying that the CDII upgrade is not ready yet? Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 78 Fri Jul 30, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:18 EDT Doug, Well, since I don't run anything other than Geneva anyway, I'm sure G will let me put anything I want on any part of the CD screen. My productivity under G has soared as it is, and CDII will be just so much icing on a tasty cake. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 79 Fri Jul 30, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:41 EDT Al, Looks like I gotta check out Geneva. I've read the press releases and RTCs, but it's still kinda fuzzy to me. Sure would be nice to _see_ it running. :-) ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 80 Sat Jul 31, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 00:11 EDT Doug: Wen you say that the CD works fine with Speedo, I assume you mean in all modes except the 15 bit mode (or do you only have a CD-8?) I have never been able to get the CD to work in 15 bit mode except with AMCGdos. I've tried Speedo, FSM and FontGdos. THanks for the Info on 24 bit, Dan. When NVDI comes out, will we then be able to use 24 bit normally? I do renderings with Phoenix, and I'd like to get 24 bit output and see it. Is that support coming? ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 81 Sat Jul 31, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 12:01 EDT Chris, Upon closer investigation, you are correct. I too, can't get CD to work in 15 bit mode under SpeedoGDOS. ASo, it looks like the only program I have ever gotten to run in 15 bit is Gemview. Short list, huh? :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 82 Sun Aug 01, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 00:03 EDT > I don't want to mislead people: right now, there is no 24-bit video >driver for Crazy Dots. There is only a demo program. However, NVDI is >being upgraded to include 24-bit support, and when we being to sell >it, this is the version we want to be giving people. So, if I understand this correctly, even though the CD II supports 24-bit, the CD drivers do not, until NVDI supports 24-bit color? If this is correct, then when will NVDI support 24-bit color? And, will NVDI need to be purchased separately? I'm asking all of these questions because I know that there are others out there, like myself, who see all of these new high-res, true-color graphics cards being introduced, and they want to get the best value for their money. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 83 Sun Aug 01, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 16:13 EDT All, I ordered my Crazy Dots II card at the Mist show. I also put in my order for the 24bit NVDI. Rick was a very gracious and helpfull host at the booth. I was throughly impressed with Geneva also. I do own Neodesk but use Hotwire now. I hope the Codeheads can support Geneva in the near future ( you will have a buyer in a second!). I enjoy using both Gribnif and Codehead software! The combination of the Crazy Dots II, Neodesk, Geneva, and a Mega STE was a stunning system! Im very excited since I have a Mega STE also and the same monitor your demos were being done on. Im looking forward to getting the Crazy Dots II card soon. (I wish you would have had some there! I was about to wrestle Rick for the one he had in the Mega STE there!). Thanks for the support! Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 84 Thu Aug 05, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 00:12 EDT Dan & Rick @ Gribnif, Just got my Crazy Dots II card today. Im in graphic heaven now! Thanks guy! The card is much faster than I expected on my Mega STE. I guess I going to have to order Geneva now! Monochrome modes seem to fly and color modes of 256 colors or less seem to move about as fast as my Mega STE without Warp 9. Got a few questions (nothing majot). 1) I seem to not be able to run Multi-Desk Deluxe in any color mode. The system will boot and I can activate any accessory from multi-desk, but when I close the accessory Multi-Desk doesn't come back. I either get lock ups or bombs. Mono rez's work great. I stripped everything out of my auto folder and accessory except AMCGDOS, CD2_MAN, and only had MultiDesk as the accessory but to no avail. I did for the heck of it turn disable the AMCGDOS and run just the CD2_MAN program and got a screwy looking desktop and was able to load Multidesk and select an acessory and exit cleanly. I tried the GDOS program that came on the disk and it didn't help either. 2) Is there anyway to change the Blue and Yellow text you get from the CD2_MAN program, and up until the desktop kicks in. 3) The Neodesk Accessory corner clock doesn't work in anything except mono modes. (I expected this and this is mainly to note it to you in case you didn't know) Will it be updated to work on the Crazy Dots in the future? 4) The Docs seem to say that the CrazyDots software can make use of the math coprocessor of the Mega STE/TT. My Mega STE doesn't have a 68881. Will adding one help? 5) When I view a text file from Neodesk (double click on one) the tesk comes up in purple. I would have thought it would have come up in Black or whatever color the desktop uses, is there a color register I should setup (PAL file?) so things come better? Which color register does Neodesk use for text displays? 6) Ive got my pre-order in for NVDI. Any word yet when it will be in? Youve probably been asked that a zillion times though, but hey Im anxious for an even faster display. From Mike Hill at 12:04:02 am Thursday, August 5, 1993 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 85 Thu Aug 05, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:55 EDT Doug & Chris & Ed, The CD II upgrade is available. You can get it by contacting Jim Allen at Fast Tech. However, there is not currently a 24-bit video driver. I just got a reply from TKR which says that it will probably be about another 3 months before NVDI is upgraded to handle 24-bit video. I am waiting right now for a response to the obvious question: if I get NVDI now, can I upgrade later on? We are currently taking orders for NVDI ET-4000 at $50. It is much faster than the drivers that come with the Crazy Dots right now, but unfortunately, the manual and programs are in German. I am, however, going to write a text file describing how to install and use the programs. Mike, 1. I don't think MDD can work in any of the color resolutions with the default Crazy Dots drivers, because it uses Line A graphics. However, the NVDI drivers have some Line A emulation in color modes, so perhaps this will work. If my machine wasn't in about 20 pieces, I'd try it . 2. No, as far as I know there is not. Again, the NVDI config menu uses the normal colors, though. 3. I've been meaning to update the corner clock. Maybe for 4. 4. It may help slightly, though to tell you the truth, I have no idea how much. 5. I think the purple colored text is actually a minor bug in the drivers. The best way to tell which color it is would be to find the first shade of purple in the control panel. Try changing it to something else and see if showing a text file gives a different color. If that doesn't work, it must be a different color palette entry. As I recall, the NVDI driver's don't do this. 6. I've placed the order for NVDI, so I'd say within the next week or so. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 86 Thu Aug 05, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 21:56 EDT Is there a way to get both the CDII upgrade and order NVDI in one go? Or should I just bite the bullet, write two checks and get them seperately? And, if the CDII doesn't have 24 bit yet, what DOES it have that the CD-15 doesn't? (Other than 24 bit potential) ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 87 Thu Aug 12, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 14:15 EDT Chris, Right now, that's about it. The 24-bit potential. You would have to mail them separately, since we are not doing the hardware upgrades here, ourselves. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 88 Mon Aug 16, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 23:44 EDT Dan @ Gribnif, How goes the NVDI situation? Im looking forward to getting it as soon as you guys get it! Is it possible to obtain a 320 X 200 X 256 color mode with the CDII? I have tried creating my own and the best I can do is make a 320 X 400 double scan mode to come close to that. Its confusing though since 320 X 200 X 256 is a common rez done my cards on the PC using SVGA monitors. I have two monitors. One goes from 15.5kHz to 38kHz horizontally and the other goes from 30kHz to 48 kHz. The both have a vertical refresh rate of 50hz to 90hz. I know before I mentioned the purple text. It looks like if you change the 15th color register (maybe 16th I forget now) to black (or whatever your text color should be) the text problem disappears. All, Ive had the Crazy Dots II card for about 3 weeks now and must say I am in love with it. The only downside has been that some of my Codehead software won't work except in mono mode (Multidesk Deluxe, Maxifile) and that the high rez color modes are a little slow in scrolling. But NVDI will definately improve and fix those problems. By the way, Maxifile runs in color modes but the view options for text files doesn't work right. I have been burning up my compiler writing programs to use the Crazy Dots II card. Ive written a little program that will view Autodesk FLI (and FLC) animations on the CD cards. In fact the reason I mentioned the 320 X 200 mode above was because FLI files are in that resolution. I also have the program viewing DL animations (although I don't know if I support every DL format). Im looking at adding Grasp also. I also have a half finished GIF viewer for the CD cards also that views GIFS very fast because it is written with the CD cards in mind. Im going to shoot for putting together all those formats (FLI/FLC/DL/GRASP/GIF/TARGA) into one program for the CD card (I would assume it would work with the Nova and Cyrel also). Ive had alot of fun downloading FLI and DL animations (there are tons of em on the PC boards) and finally being able to view them on my Mega STE. I demoed the CD at our users group meeting and after showing the club some Targas and GIFS and some FLI's with my viewer, I think all were impressed with the card. One member is thinking about buying one soon! Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 89 Tue Aug 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:52 EDT Mike, Great report. Thanks! Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 90 Tue Aug 17, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 19:26 EDT Mike, If you would create a After Dark type screen saver, I'd gladly pay good money to have it. No screen savers I've tried seem to work. FYI, I also have the Turbo 030 (16 Meg). Let me know. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 91 Tue Aug 17, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:00 EDT Mike: Upload those things when you're finished with them! ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 92 Tue Aug 17, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 22:28 EDT Al, Thanks for the kind words! Tom, Well currently a screen saver isn't in my plans, but you never know. I mainly started working on the FLI player first just because one of the local BBS's I call (IBM BBS, but I do have a 386 also) has tons of FLI files. I figured now that I have a Crazy Dots card and Im downloading all these GIF's and TGA's that animations would be the next logical step. Then I sorta fireballed into adding DL animations, and im looking at Grasp also now. Due to the fact that the CD stores graphical data in the 256 color modes like a PC video card does it was very easy to write a viewer to take advantage of that fact. If you have ever used a PC GIF viewer for DOS you have probably noticed they draw evry quickly. Well my GIF viewer for the CD is darn close to that also. Chris, Well right now I have a few more formats I want to add to it. I want it to handle GIF/FLI/FLC/DL/Targa/PCX/Grasp. Then just tighten up the code. Are alot of you CD owners interested in a program that can view all these different types of files? Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 93 Wed Aug 18, 1993 G.MON [Gerry] at 00:09 EDT All: Has anyone had any experiences using the Crazy Dots card along with an ICD Adspeed accelerator? Do they get along fine? I have an Adspeed equipped Mega ST4 and considering buying a graphics card in the future. Thanks for any help. --Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 94 Wed Aug 18, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 00:15 EDT Sure, Mike, count me in! ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 95 Wed Aug 18, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 00:58 EDT Tom, Are you talking about using a screen saver with Crazy Dots? If so, try IDLE22 here in the libraries or the newly uploaded TTARTIST just uploaded a few weeks ago. Both work in mono and color on my CD15. Mike, Yes, I'm interested :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 96 Wed Aug 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:27 EDT Mike, Yep! Gerry, The AdSpeed should work fine. It does nothing to interfere with CDII. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 97 Wed Aug 18, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 19:49 EDT Doug, I think I tried TTARTIST, it kept bombing on bootup. Note I'm also using the Turbo 030 board, but I'll try again without it. I think I had a similar problem with Idle (I got it on a European mag disk). If you have any suggestions as to how I can get it to go, let me know. Thanks, Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 98 Thu Aug 19, 1993 G.MON [Gerry] at 00:05 EDT Al: Thanks for the information! Now, I have to start saving some money..:-) --Gerry ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 99 Thu Aug 19, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 01:07 EDT I sure am interested! ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 100 Thu Aug 19, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 01:30 EDT Tom, TT artist only works on the TT (surprise!). Blush There is a newer version of IDLE, 2.2 I believe, that I still use on my M4STE and the TT in mono modes, as I did when I had the CD mega bus card. I believe it is called IDLE22.LZH in the libraries. Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 101 Thu Aug 19, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 19:38 EDT Doug, I think I checked last night, the file was pretty old (1990 ?) Is this the one you're thinking of? In any case, a copy of it is on the disk include with Issue 13 of Atari ST Review. I'll give it another shot. Thanks. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 102 Thu Aug 19, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 19:53 EDT Doug, I tried Idle 2.2. IT WORKS! I must have had a munged copy or something. A corner clock to boot, and all run on Crazy Dots! Thanks. Maybe we'll see different screens, ala After Dark or Warp 9. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 103 Fri Aug 20, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 02:09 EDT Great news Tom! Idle conflicts with one of my programs, but darned if I can remember which at the moment :-) I have turned off all of IDLE's corner indicators on my system, because they occasionally muck up a window. For instance, the Lightning fatbits mode in Touchup and some windows in Invision Elite pick up the indicator (whatever you have showing) and stick it into the image. Don't try to change resolutions from the "set preferences" GEM dialog. Will crash the system. Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 104 Mon Aug 23, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 00:43 EDT Dan, I did mention this to someone at Gribnif some time ago, but before now I thought it was a problem with my setup. I can't seem to get the 16 color driver to operate properly on my setup. It shows half a bee when loading, and garbles up the screen. I have a Mega ST4 with the Turbo 030 board (w/4 megs TT ram), and the CD8 board. Also, I think I've nailed down a problem that I think may be with CD. I don't know if it is the .sys driver or cdmanager.prg, but I believe it lies in one or both of them. I am a regular user (and current beta tester) of STraight FAX. I contacted C.S.Smeton to let him know I could not seem to export a fax file to an IMG file, it kept bombing out. He had not had this problem before, and we got together and spent 5 hours on trying to figure it out. Basically what was happening was when it tried to write to disk, it would write the header, then bomb or jump out to the desktop. He was able to do it on his Falcon, and on several other machines. It was only when I was in monochrome mode through CD that it would work properly. I also disabled every ACC and AUTO prg I could, with similar results. My understanding is that in mono mode, CD uses the monitor as though it were a regular large screen mono monitor, much like Moniterm. Well, even versions I have tested since then give me the same result, I am able to export on my regular SM 124 or SC1224 monitors but not in color in CD. Charles hasn't actually confirmed this that I know of, but I have told him, and he is familiar with my setup and situation. If you need more info, I suggest contacting him. If you have any suggestions for me, let me know. Thanks, Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 105 Mon Aug 23, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:03 EDT Tom, Check to make sure you have the line: 05 CDDRV16.SYS in your ASSIGN.SYS file. Aside from that, the only thing I can figure is that perhaps the CDDRV16 is corrupted somehow. Try re-copying it from the original disk. I just tried it here at 640 x 400 x 16 and it worked fine. It sounds as though your problem with Straight Fax might have something to do with the GDOS you are using. Try using either AMC GDOS or the GDOS.PRG in the GEMSYS folder on the Crazy Dots disk, whichever you are not using now. Gerry, I had one user who specifically could not get the MegaBus version of the Crazy Dots to work with the AdSpeed accelerator. Apparently, it alters the bus timing too much. The Crazy Dots does work with Fast Tech's T25, though. On another, even more depressing note, TKR have informed me that they will no longer be producing the MegaBus version of the card. Apparently, quantities were too low to be worthwhile. Of course, I didn't find that out until I had a handful of customers who wanted them . Mike, I've been so busy lately, I hadn't had time to badger them about the NVDI's they were supposed to send. I'll send a fax right now. The Crazy Dots driver does not allow for physical resolutions of less than 400 pixels vertically. I'm not absolutely certain why, but I think it has something to do with the screen font. I'd be really interested in any sort of animation players/picture viewers you have. They are a great way to demo the capabilities of the card at shows. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 106 Mon Aug 23, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 19:53 EDT Dan, I do have CDDRV16.SYS as 05 in my assign.sys file. I'll recopy from the original and let you know. As for STraight FAX, I hope it's not Speedo GDOS, 'cause I like Atari Works. Once again, thank you. I'll keep you posted (what a pun). Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 107 Mon Aug 23, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 23:52 EDT Dan, I tried your suggestions, but no luck. Here's what I did: AMCGDOS - I can't even get this to install FONTGDOS - 640x480, 640x400 (4 & 16 colors on both resolutions) - same problem GDOS - 640x480, 640x400 (4 & 16 colors on both resolutions) - same problem Of course, I use SpeedoGDOS all the time, but experience identical problems. I also tried the same GDOS's with trying to export a fax to IMG (please check beta area through Charles to see other test stuff), and experience the same problem. FYI, I have CD8 with an NEC 3FGx and Jim Allen's Turbo 030 (50mhZ). Any suggestions? Thanks for your help. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 108 Tue Aug 24, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 08:28 EDT Tom, the Crazydots 16 color driver doesn't like either the 68030 or TOS 2.06, I forget which. Try it with the board in 68000 mode and see if it works then. If not it is TOS 2.06 bothering the driver. From my understanding, the NVDI driver set doesn't have this problem, so that may be the required solution...besides the NVDI driver is faster anyway. The CrazyDots board has two quirks in the interface that can give speedups a hassle. A) The addresses on the board are NOT cacheable, not by a T25 or the 68030 chip. B) The IO addresses must be accessed as a byte wide device, and one of the tricks used by speedups to support caching is to pretend a device is word wide even when it isn't...which will upset the Crazydots ET4000 chip. So we have a special version of the T25 that doesn't do either of those things in the video address range and that makes the CD happy...and the Turbo030 family has these things SW controlled, with a CrazyDots specific 030 driver. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 109 Tue Aug 24, 1993 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 21:24 EDT Jim, I juST _knew_ there was a reason I wanted the CD - tt030 combo, :) Instead of calling yourself just FAST Tech, perhaps you should call yourself GOOD & FAST....he he ......SYRSN ..... JON ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 110 Wed Aug 25, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 19:16 EDT Dan, Is there any word on the possiblity of a expansion for CD to take advantage of Multimedia (Genlock, etc.)? If not from TKR, a third-party perhaps? Thanks, Tom P.S. Jim Allen answered my question with the 16 color driver. I haven't tested it yet in 68000 mode, but I will. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 111 Sat Aug 28, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 01:14 EDT Dan at Gribnif, No problem, I know your busy with Geneva. Im just dying for NVDI since I was use to Warp 9 before the CD II arrived! Hopefully our friends in Germany have it on the way to you guys! As soon as I get the FLI/FLC/DL/GIF viewer finished (finishing up FLC compatibility) I will send you a copy to examine (plus a few animations). Its working great now. Im adding a script mode to it so you can run through a group of animations, gif pictures, etc with the click of a mouse. Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 112 Tue Aug 31, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 10:46 EDT Mike, Well, they say they finally shipped the NVDI's, so I should get them soon. Tom, No news yet, but I'll keep asking. Jim, Just to clarify, the CD 16 driver does work on a TT with TOS 3.06, just not (apparently) with your board. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 113 Wed Sep 01, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 18:38 EDT Dan, Alright! Glad to here they finally shipped the NVDI's to you. Im eagerly awaiting mine. Hopefully you still have my order from way back at MIST. Thanks for the ongoing updates on NVDI. Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 114 Thu Sep 09, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 22:19 EDT Just out of curiosity folks..... what's the going rate for a Mega-Bus CD II card? Gregg ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 115 Mon Sep 13, 1993 J.NOLAN5 [John Nolan] at 07:57 EDT I'm looking for a way to increase the scan rate on my TT colour monitor. It's a "PTC146", and I've recently gratuated from an st with a mono screen. The thing is, for word processing, the higher refresh rate on the mono is very good. I do a fair amount of DTP work, so I like the colour, but my wife's writing work leaves her wishing for the old mono. Is Crazy Dots a solution? What's the cheapest version of it? Is there a less costly way to do this? The TT medium palatte is still exciting to a guy who has never owned a colour computer before. Thanks, John. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 116 Tue Sep 14, 1993 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 06:53 EDT Dan, A recent online mag indicated that you have the NVDI in stock now. Is this the one for the CDII?..........JON ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 117 Tue Sep 14, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 12:32 EDT John Nolan, The Crazy Dots can increase the number of pixels on the screen at one time, and the number of colors. On the 1426, I usually use 640 x 480 x 32,000 colors with no problem. You can also go slightly higher in the resolution department than this. Furthermore, you can have hardware "panning" with which you can use the mouse to view a portion of a much larger virtual screen. Gregg, Due to lack of units sold, TKR has said that they are not planning to do a Mega Bus version of Crazy Dots II. I am still trying to lobby them into doing one, since I have had several requests in the past few months. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 118 Tue Sep 14, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:23 EDT Jon, Yes, we finally do have NVDI in stock, but I am still waiting for a fax back from TKR so that I can finalize what our price should be. I also need to find the time to write a "how to" file in English. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 119 Tue Sep 14, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:46 EDT Why Dan, You aren't busy are ya? (ducking) ;-) Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 120 Wed Sep 15, 1993 J.NOLAN5 [John Nolan] at 07:25 EDT I didn't make myself too clear: what I was really curious about was how I could increase the vertical refresh rate on my 1426 monitor ffrom 60 to 70 or higher. Thanks, John Nolan. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 121 Wed Sep 15, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:47 EDT Ah well, I can't say I'm surprised. Let's face it, the market out there for MegaBus adapters is VERY small.... such is life. Let's hope the market for VME adapters not only becomes strong, but gets stronger...... Gregg ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 122 Thu Sep 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:36 EDT John, Not sure if changing the refresh rate is possible without a total reworking of the circuits inside. Does someone here know? Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 123 Sun Sep 19, 1993 J.ALLEN27 [FAST TECH] at 17:41 EDT Dan, Megabus versions of CrazyDot's I can be upgraded to CrazyDot's II, right? Just checking. Also, is the NVDI version you have able to do 24bit mode yet? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 124 Mon Sep 20, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 23:18 EDT Dan, Couple questions. 1) How well does Pure C work with the CD II card? The reason I ask is that I am a Lattice user right now, but am a little unhappy with their lack of a C source debugger after a couple years of talking about doing one. The Lattice Debugger doesn't work with the CD II as it allocates its own screen memory (I could use an old Atari monitor, but that would defeat the point of my CD II). Does the Pure C Debugger work with the CD II card? 2) How much of a speed difference does a TT make over a Mega STE in respect to the display speed of the CD II card? Im looking at upgrading to a TT and im curious what kind of speed increase im looking at. Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 125 Tue Sep 21, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 15:01 EDT Mike Hill, Pure C's editor and compiler sections work great in all CD modes. The debugger works perfectly in any size mono screen, but has problems with redraws in color. It is usable, though, if you need it badly. The difference with a TT is noticeable, but not terribly. I think that if you used NVDI with it, there would not be too much of a visible difference. Jim, As far as I know, it's the same mod to the board, regardless of whether it's MegaBus or VME. The 24-bit driver for NVDI probably won't be out for another month or two. John N., With the Crazy Dots, you can push the refresh rate on the 1426 to its maximum (which is 70 Hz, according to the manual.) But, if this is all you want to do, the Crazy Dots might be overkill. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 126 Tue Sep 21, 1993 J.NOLAN5 [John Nolan] at 18:30 EDT Thanks, Dan...how much is the Crazy Dots? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 127 Sat Sep 25, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 14:54 EDT Dan, Does the new version of NVDI work with Crazy Dots 8? Also, does it work with SpeedGDOS and/or Speedo Fonts? Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 128 Sun Sep 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 14:09 EDT Tom, NVDI may work with Speedo if the GDOS portion of NVDI is turned off. It's worth checking out. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 129 Mon Sep 27, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 18:02 EDT Al, Thanks for the info. That's pretty cool if I can turn of the GDOS portion of NVDI. I did purchase the previous version of NVDI, but returned it when I found it would not work with Crazy Dots. I really didn't even try it, so I'm really unfamiliar with its usage. However, my understanding is that the new version works with CDII. Until the new CD software delivers, and the hardware upgrade is done, can I use the current version of NVDI for my CD8? If so, I'll pick up a copy and let you know how if it works with Speedo. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 130 Tue Sep 28, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:55 EDT Tom, I dunno. I'm getting a CDII, but don't have it yet. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 131 Tue Sep 28, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 17:43 EDT John Nolan, The Crazy Dots II is $799.95. Tom, Yes, the NVDI's we have do work with the CD 8. You can still run Speedo in addition to NVDI if you want to use Speedo fonts. I don't think you get any speed improvement for the Speedo font drawing but, if I'm not mistaken, the "other" graphics are faster than they would otherwise be without NVDI. The version of NVDI we have (and I have yet to get that darn priice on!) is specifically designed for graphics boards with the ET-4000 chip. You cannot use the "normal" NVDI with the CD board, and you cannot use this version of NVDI with normal ST/TT modes. If you do get both, though, they can be "combined" (by way of ASSIGN.SYS). Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 132 Tue Sep 28, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 19:36 EDT Dan, Thanks for the info, and of course, your honesty about NVDI. Since the "special" version is different from the "regular" version, are you saying that I'll have to pay 2x for NVDI, or might there be a package deal? Please let us know when a price is established. On the other hand, I do have Turbo ST and Quick ST II, so mabye I only need the "special" version. Keep us informed. Thanks again. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 133 Wed Sep 29, 1993 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 22:11 EDT Dan or Jim, I have heard of the new Tseng ET4000W32i [note the i !] which I understand is 40% faster than the chip currently in our CD cards [ooooo....;^) ] Is there any hope that a very simple chip swap would speed up our VME cards in the near present? I realize the chips are probably on the backorder list of the manufacturers, but would be so kind as to check it out for us ? Thanks ....soon to be Speedy Jon !? ;^) ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 134 Mon Oct 11, 1993 GRIBNIF-1 at 20:41 EDT Everyone, We finally have the price for NVDI worked out. It will be $69.95 plus shipping ($3 US, $4 Canada.) The version we have right now does not include a 24-bit version and, unfortunately, I do not yet know what the upgrade procedure will be like. It's still a vast improvement, though, in speed, and worth the money. It includes replacement drivers for 2-, 16-, 256-, and 32000-color modes, with control over the hardware panning, also. There are also CPX's for setting NVDI's settings and color palette. Jon, I haven't heard of that new processor, but I'll ask TKR. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 135 Mon Oct 11, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:22 EDT Dan, Any way to do a COD shipment of NVDI? It's usually about a $3 to $4 addition... I don't have a Credit Card, and I'd like to order it! ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 136 Thu Oct 14, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 12:24 EDT Chris, Yes, we can do a COD for $4.50 + the UPS shipping cost (probably about $4 to your area). Give us a call or send me email. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 137 Fri Oct 15, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 20:10 EDT I just un-ignored this topic having just bought a used MSTe. What are the going rates for the CD cards and how many colors/rez can they handle? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 138 Fri Oct 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:53 EDT Bob, Here are excerpts from the Gribnif description of the latest Crazy Dots card: Crazy Dots II has the following capabilities: o Programmable screen resolutions up to 1,664 x 1,200. o True-Color display capability (giving you up to 16.7 million colors to choose from!). o Virtual display support (display a resolution higher than the physical screen resolution) with hardware panning (no software slowdown). Crazy Dots II also offers the following advantages: o Optional, 24 bit color, accelerated "NVDI" based screen driver, which gives you a SUBSTANTIALLY faster display than any other video card. o Uses any standard VGA monitor (the better the monitor, the higher the maximum resolution that you can display). o Internal expansion slot with its own output socket for future upgrades. o English language software with an English (written by us) manual. o 1 Megabyte of Video RAM. The Crazy Dots II is a custom card, specifically designed to fit right into your Atari's expansion slot. Two versions are available: o MegaBus For the Classic MegaST, includes a "pass-through" for the optional math co-processor. o VME For the MegaSTE and TT/030 models. Crazy Dots II carries a suggested retail of $799.95. Dealer discounts are available. To place and order, or for more information, please contact: Gribnif Software P.O. Box 779, Northampton, MA 01061-0779 U.S.A. Tel: (413) 247-5620 (10am to 6pm, Eastern Standard Time) Fax: (413) 247-5622 (24 hours a day) GENIE: GRIBNIF CIS: 75300,1131 Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 139 Sun Oct 17, 1993 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 14:28 EDT $800? That's more than the computers they fit in! No thanks. ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 140 Sun Oct 17, 1993 AEO.5 [Ed Krimen] at 20:06 EDT Dan, is that an English version of NVDI? ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 141 Mon Oct 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:19 EDT Bob, If the Atari market were as large as the DOS market, the $800 cards would cost $200. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 142 Wed Oct 20, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:17 EDT Ed, Nope, NVDI is in German. But it's very easy to use, and I include translations of all of their disk-based docs, plus another doc describing how to set up and use it. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 143 Sun Oct 24, 1993 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 01:15 EDT Chris Oates, How is that pic viewing software for the CDII comeing along? I understand you use Warp9 with the CD card in mono. Would you list the order of your AUTO folder etc. & ver#'s ? Mine REALLY craps out my 19" mono...........fingers crossed ;^) thanks, JON ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 144 Sun Oct 24, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 15:38 EDT Jon: um... I'm not the one doing the picture viewing software... ;) I _AM_ working on a utility that will (hopefully) allow resolution switching without a reboot. It would work only under MTOS though. (Would it work under Geneva, Dan?) As to W9, I only use it for EOS and a new Font. The screen Accel. must be turned off. ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 145 Sun Oct 24, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 19:30 EDT So the CDII is not Warp 9 compatible? Too bad. Gregg ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 146 Mon Oct 25, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:55 EDT Hello? Anyone from Gribnif still around? Thanks. please check your Email...... Thanks Gregg ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 147 Tue Oct 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:01 EDT Gregg, The Gribnifians are alive and well and working hard filling orders. I talked with Dan and Lisa yesterday. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 148 Tue Oct 26, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 16:52 EDT Chris, If you write a program to do rez switching under MTOS, it should also work under Geneva. Gregg, I only get on about once every 4-5 days, plus in this case there was a weekend. It's a matter of having the time to do this stuff and finish NeoDesk 4. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 149 Thu Oct 28, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:25 EDT Roger, Copy... Thanks Dan, I'm starting to look forward to getting this in gear... Wait a minute.... did you say NeoDesk 4?????? Ah ah.... the plot thickens.. Gregg ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 150 Sat Oct 30, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 04:21 EDT I got my copy of NVDI today, and it is quite an improvement, speed-wise! I do have a few questions, tho... 1) the 16 color driver messes up horizontal lines. they come out dashed instead of solid. I haven't tried reinstalling from the madter disk, but they've done this from the first try... 2) Is NVDI incompatible with MTOS? The programs seem to load okay from the boot messages, but when I get to the desktop, it's just the normal one. 3) THis one is kinda weird... I use Speedo, but when NVDI is loaded all my GDOS apps can't find the fonts! the Outline ACC _can_ and I even have the NVDI GDOS turned off from the CPX. 4) Is there a separate topic for the NVDI / ET4000? Or should I just continue to post here? ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 151 Sat Oct 30, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 04:37 EDT An update: The MTOS problem was linked to Speedo. If I removed Speedo, the MultiTOS desktop appeared as planned. Actually, now it simply hangs if I try to load Speedo & MTOS & NVDI... :( ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 152 Sat Oct 30, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:23 EDT Chris, I've only been playing with NVDI ET 4000 for a day, so I'm not surer if I know anything. :) But although Speedo loaded fine under NVDI here last night, the fonts were nowhere to be found. There may be an easy workaround; I didn't change the assign.sys at all except to make sure it was pointed toward the folder where the NVDI and Speedo drivers were all located. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 153 Sat Oct 30, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 16:19 EDT Al, That's the same problem I have. I've looked at all my *.inf files and can't find a workaround. If I have any bitmap fonts installed and use the built-in GDOS there's no problem, but speedo fonts seem to be out for now. :( I may have to reinstall all the old CD drivers, since It's hard to use AtariWorks at less than 800 x 600 (for me) I've also found another weird problem. When using comm software (Aladdin or STalker) every once in a while the system simply locks up. No bombs, no messages, just the mouse disappears, the keyboard locks up (not even CTRL ALT DEL works!) and I have to reboot. It seems to only happen when I'm in a comm program. Makes me nervous about downloading anything! ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 154 Sat Oct 30, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:49 EDT Chris, I've been running Aladdin for many hours now under 1024X768X256 with the CDII setup here and no lockups have occurred. Another subj: Anyone have a suggestion for a good screen saver that works well with CD? I am using Idle 2.2 right now, and it seems very well behaved, and all that, but are there others? Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 155 Sat Oct 30, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:57 EDT Al, For color modes, try TT Artist. Works well in at least 256 colors :-) Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 156 Sun Oct 31, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 15:27 EST Chris, I have the same problem with NVDI for the Crazy Dots II card in 16 color mode. I tried everything I could think of, and even asked Dan to send me his XVGA16.SYS so I could try it. The wierd thing is that after installing that new one the problem got better and I actually thought it was fixed until I started bringing up windows and dialogs. Maybe we have a bad batch of NVDI's. Im running on a Mega STE with 4 megs, is your system similiar? Other than that I am quite happy with NVDI ET/4000. It fixed the incompatibilities I was having with some of my Codehead stuff. (MutliDesk Deluxe, Little Green Item Selector). Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 157 Sun Oct 31, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:26 EST Yes, I've got a MSTE4... maybe that's the problem? hmmm... :( Oh well, good thing 256 colors is fast enough to use... :) I also really like the color splash right before the desktop. Expecially impressive in 32K colors. Too bad True paint still doens't work in 32K. ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 158 Sun Oct 31, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:17 EST Doug, TT Artist (the new version) did nothing at all (!) when I ran it in 1024X768X256. Do you have to run it in 640X480X256 to get it to run in 256- color mode? (TT Artist is such a frustration, BTW; the code is so brilliantly done and sloppy at the same time. But in TT Med, 16 colors, it is wonderful, if still flakey.) Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 159 Mon Nov 01, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 17:23 EST Chris, 1. I've been discussing this same thing with Mike Hill. I can't get it to happen on our TT, but I'm going to try it on the MegaSTe. 2. It works here for me. Here's the order I have things in: REDIRECT NVDI SLCT_DEV MINTNP 3. Check to make sure you do not have any of the fonts that come with NVDI specified in the ASSIGN.SYS file you use with Speedo. There is a mention of this in one of the README files. You did get the English disk, right? (Just checking, because we messed up on someone else's.) 4. You can continue to post here, I guess. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 160 Mon Nov 01, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:53 EST Dan: Thanks for the info. The MTOS problems were linked to Speedo. I'll check my Assign and get back to you. ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 161 Mon Nov 01, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 23:24 EST Chris, What rez do you run under with 32K colors? I can't seem to get 800 X 600 32K to display correctly. My monitor can do this rez no problem (it will handle up to 1024 by 768 Non-Interlaced) and displayed it before without NVDI. I can switch down to 640 by 480 and it works great. Dan, Can you run the VMG program under NVDI and preview a rez? Whenever I select the preview option and get the grid pattern and come back to the VMG screen my desktop is fried green tomatoes. Also is there anyway to set the hardware panning when running NVDI? The original CD Control Panel ACC won't allow you to use the position feature while NVDI is loaded. Mike P.S. Any CD users want to do a little beta-test for me of my FLI/FLC viewer? Im working on a program that views FLI/FLC/DL/GL/GIF/TARGA on the CD cards. I have the FLI/FLC viewer working pretty well and the DL and GIF viewers are separate modules at this time and work well also. Im looking for a couple TT users and some Mega ST/STE users also. Reply through email as I don't want to clutter this topic! ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 162 Tue Nov 02, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 05:38 EST I like the color splash, too, and the way the desktop (NeoDesk) does a fade- in, fade-out dissolve when it reappears. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 163 Tue Nov 02, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:38 EST Mike, Same problem here. Without NVDI, the res previeew works fine. With it, no go. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 164 Tue Nov 02, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:22 EST Mike, I haven't had any problems runnin in 32K modem and I never use less than 800 x 600 ;) ack. sorry for the typos. It's been a long day... ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 165 Tue Nov 02, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 23:47 EST Al, I am running the older version of TTArtist in 800x608/ 256 colors right now. I also have run it at 1024x768 without problem. CD15, TT Tos 3.06 4/16megs. I don't have NVDI yet. The newest version of TTArtist is buggy on my machine, so I went back to the first version. I use Idle 1.1 for mono modes. What is the "color splash"? Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 166 Wed Nov 03, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 04:16 EST Doug, The older version of TTArtist was just too buggy under my setup. Newer one does nothing at all. Hard to figure. The "splash" is a sort of TV dissolve when the desktop changes. You have to see it to believe it. :) Idle 2.2 locks up the system under Geneva sometimes. Argh! Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 167 Thu Nov 04, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:09 EST Al, The only case we've had a lockup with Idle under Geneva is when doing a rez change, and that's a documented facet of using Idle. Mike H., There seems to be a problem with using VMG to view a new rez when running NVDI. Probably the best thing to do is to go back to just the old CD drivers when you need to do this. I have a SET in XBoot for just this reason. I'm also going to ask TKR if there is a workaround/planned fix for this. If you load the NVDICNF.CPX, it has an option called Lupe in one of the popups. This lets you select a new physical rez. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 168 Thu Nov 04, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:35 EST Dan, Yep, Idle works fine. I had a corrupted copy in a folder, and replaced it with the original, and all is well. TTArtist works somewhat fine (and it is spectacular!) ... but takes over the serial port. The graphics are singularly magnificent, however. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 169 Fri Nov 05, 1993 D.WALTER7 [Doug Walter] at 00:10 EST Al, Thanks for the info on the "splash". Is there a 'saver that uses this? Doug7 ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 170 Fri Nov 05, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:43 EST Doug, I dunno if there is a saver that splashes. I will say that TTArtist is the most spectacular of the savers I have run on the CDII; it must be seen to be believed. But it misbehaves when dealing with the serial port, at least so far. (I may be able to adjust it when I get a chance.) The fractals (many choices!) it creates are on a par with any in the Mac and PC worlds. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 171 Fri Nov 05, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:21 EST Hm..... I must recant two things: First, I tried 800 x 600 x 15 bit, and wow, how neat! my screen looks like a double shadow image of ST medium res with multiple mouse pointers and it's really sickening! Anybody else with this problem will know what I'm talking about, so pardon the obscure description. :) It even happens when I use a virtual screen at 800 x 600, boot in 640 x 480 and later switch to 800 x 600 via the color CPX. ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 172 Sat Nov 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:47 EST Chris, I had to move the X2 driver to the 04 position, as mentioned in the docs, to get the b/w modes to work. I also had to fool with the inf files to get one that was workable. I'm still messing around, but now I can get these resolutions and modes without a problem: 800X600X256 800X16X16 800X600X2 1020X768X256 1024X768X16 1660X1200X16 I cannot get ST High, TT Med, TT Low and so on to work through the card; of course, they can be directed through the normal monitor port. I also cannot get redirect.prg to do anything on my TT. The monitor is blank when redirect tries to put a 640X400 screen on it. I think this is also mentioned in the docs, although they are cryptic and a little disappointing, given the expense of the card. (Dan?) I got 15-bit color to work fine at first, but my tweaking with the inf files has caused that one (800X600X32K) to bomb, and 640X400X32K to bomb also. No doubt I have something amiss and will be able to fix it. All in all, this is a very exciting product. Dan, There is a major typo in the English translation, inverting the meaning of the section that describes the boot order. I'll e-mail you a version that shows this error and corrects it if you'd like. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 173 Sun Nov 07, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 00:30 EST Al, Redirect works fine for me, and I use that to use ST high or whatever through my monitor without loading NVDI. I think that you can't get ST high etc, with NVDI since there are no drivers for internal rezs, just the CD stuff. I have no problems with monochrome modes at all... ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 174 Sun Nov 07, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 14:16 EST Chris, In other words, you get ST High through the card, without NVDI and without the CD driver? I'm confused. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 175 Sun Nov 07, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 18:06 EST Yes, I do, courtesy of REDIRECT. I have it before anything (including XBOOT) in my AUTO folder, and it just pops ST-High through the card onto my Multisynch. BTW, it won't pipe ST Med or Low through the card. If I boot in Low, then when REDIRECT runs it switches to High. a little weird... ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 176 Mon Nov 08, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 00:07 EST Chris, Are you using a TT or an MSTe? Can you post your assign.sys? So far, redirect does nothing for my system (!), so I suspect that the fact that the TT does not really have an ST High Res mode is to blame. (The TT has a native VGA mode, in which all resolutions below TT Medium are simulated.) I'm not complaining, to tell the truth. I have two SVGA monitors, and it's easy to have both connected up. And I also can't rave too much about the CD II card. Using TT Medium at an 85 Hz refresh rate is 'way cool, and 800X608X256 at 72 Hz is beautiful. The letters get a trifle small at 1280X960, and REALLY tiny at 1660X1200! Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 177 Mon Nov 08, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 01:47 EST Okay, here's a $50.00 question... I was running in 800 x 200 x 256 using NVDI. This is not compatable with Speedo, and I needed to use Speedo for AtariWorks, so I rebooted, and using XBOOT, I am only running Redirect, Speedo and OVFIX. My DAs are the Outline FOnts, Control Panel and STalker. my CPXs are all the ordinary ones (regular ColorVDI, not the NVDI color one) and yet, somehow, when I got to the desktop, I was in 800 x 600 monochrome!!!!!!!! and, when I loaded AW, all my Fonts were found and everything is happy!!! What da heck is going on? ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 178 Mon Nov 08, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 01:50 EST Al, To answer your questions, I'm using a MegaSTE, TOS 2.06. My assign is: ;> ASSIGN.SYS Created with FONTGDOS CPX/ACC Copyright 1991 Atari Corp. ;> For use with GDOS 1.1 and higher. ;> Last modified on 10/30/1993 01:19 ;> PATH = C:\SYS\SPEEDO 01P SCREEN.SYS 02P SCREEN.SYS 03P SCREEN.SYS 04P SCREEN.SYS 05 XVGA16.SYS 06P SCREEN.SYS 07 XVGA256.SYS 08 XVGA2.SYS 9P SCREEN.SYS 10 XVGA32K.SYS 21 BJ10.SYS 31 META.SYS ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 179 Mon Nov 08, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 02:03 EST oops, bad format... maybe this will work . ;> ASSIGN.SYS Created with FONTGDOS CPX/ACC Copyright 1991 Atari Corp. . ;> For use with GDOS 1.1 and higher. . ;> Last modified on 10/30/1993 01:19 . ;> . PATH = C:\SYS\SPEEDO . 01P SCREEN.SYS . 02P SCREEN.SYS . 03P SCREEN.SYS . 04P SCREEN.SYS . 05 XVGA16.SYS . 06P SCREEN.SYS . 07 XVGA256.SYS . 08 XVGA2.SYS . 9P SCREEN.SYS . 10 XVGA32K.SYS . 21 BJ10.SYS . 31 META.SYS ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 180 Mon Nov 08, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 13:07 EST Al, Redirect works great here on my TT. You do need to make sure that there is a 640 x 400 x 2 color mode stored in your NVDIVGA.INF file, though. Just describe the error and I'll fix the TXT files. Chris, I have found that sometimes the VMG program will create a "bad" mode file that puts NVDI or CDMANAG into this mode. You should try re-creating the 15 bit mode definitions, using the ones on the master disks. I don't know how you got 800 x 600 without NVDI running. It's a mystery to me! You don't, perhaps, have NVDI running before XBoot, do you? Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 181 Tue Nov 09, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:39 EST Thanks, Chris. al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 182 Tue Nov 09, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:56 EST Dan and all, Thanks for the continuing help, guys! I got REDIRECT to work by doing two things - following your advice and RTFMing.... I made sure a working ST High driver was the first one the software came to, and it did exactly what it was supposed to do! Now I can free up my other SVGA monitor. Playing around with the video modes has been fun and instructional. I have an 89-Hz refresh rate now for TT Medium in 16-color mode, something I would have thought was impossible before getting acquainted with the excellent Crazy Dots hardware and software. By the way, the ET4000 chip from Tseng adds a surprising amount of hardware- based screen acceleration, with an effetc I had not anticipated: In such modes as this one, which I can boot up into without the card and its software easily (making comparisons quite simple), the combination of the ET4000 chip and the new NVDI produces an incredibly fast display, one that gives a new meaning to the word "snap." Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 183 Wed Nov 10, 1993 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 22:31 EST Chris, Yes when running any 32K color mode in a rez above 640 by 480 I get the shadow effect you describe. Mike I hope the 16 color mode line drawing problem and this 32K color mode problem can be addressed. Thats really the only two details I don't like about this otherwise fine product! Oh yeah, I also which the VMG.PRG program worked while NVDI is loaded. Al, Not sure if this is what your talking about but if you select the ST Rez's from the NVDI menu you actually need the standard non ET-4000 NVDI drivers for those modes. It would be nice if there were some way to redirect Low rez mode out the CD card. The only thing I hate doing is switching my multisync over to my starsync box so I can go back to 320 X 200 X 16 for games. I could set up a switchbox I guess, but Im lazy! When you mentioned bugs in the english translation, do you mean that you have the German manual for NVDI also? My package only came with a Geneva flyer, a Gribnif catalog, and two disks. A friend of mine I work with is German so I let him do all my translations! Mike ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 184 Mon Nov 15, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 12:38 EST Mike, Um, are you absolutely certain you didn't get the NVDI German manual? We have been sending them to anyone who got an NVDI. In fact, the rest of the NVDI copies we have here in the office all have a manual with them (and the only extra manual we have is for my own copy). While it's not impossible that one of my employees made a mistake on this, after asking them it seems unlikely. Dan ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 185 Mon Nov 15, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 21:16 EST Al, You mentioned over in the Spectre topic about using CDII with Spectre. I can't get that to happen at all (on my CD8). How do you do it? Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 186 Tue Nov 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:29 EST Tom, No, that wasn't me in the Spectre topic. haven't been there in years. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 187 Tue Nov 16, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 18:34 EST Al, Perhaps I misspoke. The message I saw was in the Hardware area, the Spectre 3.1 topic. I refer to this message: >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 4, Topic 44 >Message 69 Mon Nov 15, 1993 >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:29 EST > >Sam, > >Macs aren't crippled, but they're slow, compared to the system throughput you >get from an ST, TT or Falcon with the same speed chip. They're also difficult >to program for, have stupidly split files, are relegated to an outmoded >operating system in the way they do multitasking (Geneva is far better, and it >works on ANY atari), and have a totally dumb single-button mouse. > >On days when I *must* use a Mac, I come home to my TT with relief. This is >made even more pleasant by the addition of my Crazy Dots II graphics board, >which makes the Mac's display look like Simon LeGrump designed it. > >Al Maybe you can use Spectre on the TT with the VME bus version of CD. But if you can kick in Spectre in one of its mono modes, fill me in. I can't get it to happen on mine. I also have the Turbo 030 board, if that has any bearing. Also (from the same area): >Atari-ST RoundTable >Category 4, Topic 44 >Message 75 Tue Nov 16, 1993 >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:27 EST > >Sam, > >Crazy Dots will do 320X200 to 32000X32000, if my memory of the docs is >correct. > >It does 1-bit to 15-bit color. > >It has a hardware accelerator in the card, and is very, very fast. > >Al Hardware accelerator???? What hardware accelerator??? If mine doesn't have this, I'll need to upgrade. Jim Allen was supposed to be working out a deal to upgrade the old boards, so who knows? Thanks, Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 188 Wed Nov 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:45 EST Tom Jr., The CDII has an ET/4000 chip from Tseng. It has built-in graphics acceleration. No, I didn't mean I came hoem to use Spectre on my TT. I have Macs at the office, and I'm glad they stay there. Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 189 Wed Nov 17, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 20:22 EST Al, Thanks again. I misunderstood about Spectre, sorry. My CD has the ET/4000 as well. For obvious reasons, 256-color will be slower than lesser color modes, so I'll just have to save the $$$ to get NVDI. I do agree with you on one point. The Atari is far better than the Mac, and I feel better coming home to "the real thing". My setup is faster in many respects than the Quadra I've used. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 190 Thu Nov 18, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 02:14 EST I also must agree that an Atari with a CD board is much preferable to a Mac. :) It's funny that my MegaSTE is as fast from the user's point of view as an LCII, which has the same CPU as a Falcon... Also, I've started to notice (uh oh) another possible problem with Redirect. When I use it, even without NVDI installed and I try to log on to Aladdin, all the text is messed up. I suppose this is a problem with Aladdin and not Redirect, though, since it uses its own text routines... :( ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 191 Thu Nov 18, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:21 EST Chris, Is REDIRECT the first thing in the auto folder? do you have a working ST High Res screen sys in the first line that REDIRECT sees in the assign.sys? Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 192 Thu Nov 18, 1993 P.BULLOCK2 [PETER] at 15:20 EST Hi folks. I need a little info and you have peaked my interest with your comments. I recently bought a TT and am looking for some kind of graphics board. That's the extent of my knowledge on the subject. How much is the crazy dots board, and more specifically, will it fill the entire screen of my monitor? Currently, the actual space used by the TT is about 80% of the monitor(SVGA). I'd like to stretch the desktop edge to edge. Thanks for the help. Peter ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 193 Thu Nov 18, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 22:50 EST Al, I'm not quite sure what the question is.... :) ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 194 Fri Nov 19, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:48 EST Peter, The Crazy Dots card will, indeed, fill the entire screen of your monitor. You'll find it a wonderful addition. Here is an excerpt from the press release: Crazy Dots II has the following capabilities: o Programmable screen resolutions up to 1,664 x 1,200. o True-Color display capability (giving you up to 16.7 million colors to choose from!). o Virtual display support (display a resolution higher than the physical screen resolution) with hardware panning (no software slowdown). Crazy Dots II also offers the following advantages: o Optional, 24 bit color, accelerated "NVDI" based screen driver, which gives you a SUBSTANCIALLY faster display than any other video card. o Uses any standard VGA monitor (the better the monitor, the higher the maximum resolution that you can display). o Internal expansion slot with its own output socket for future upgrades. o English language software with an English (written by us) manual. o 1 Megabyte of Video RAM. The Crazy Dots II is a custom card, specifically designed to fit right into your Atari's expansion slot. Two versions are available: o MegaBus For the Classic MegaST, includes a "pass-through" for the optional math co-processor. o VME For the MegaSTE and TT/030 models. The Crazy Dots design has already established itself, for the past two years, as the leading video display card for the Atari. Used by hundreds of satisfied customers, Crazy Dots gives you a fast, customizable, high resolution display. Crazy Dots II carries a suggested retail of $799.95. Dealer discounts are available. To place and order, or for more information, please contact: Gribnif Software P.O. Box 779, Northampton, MA 01061-0779 U.S.A. Tel: (413) 247-5620 (10am to 6pm, Eastern Standard Time) Fax: (413) 247-5622 (24 hours a day) GENIE: GRIBNIF CIS: 75300,1131 Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 195 Fri Nov 19, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 20:23 EST Hey all, There's no topic for this, but it sounds related. I recently read in a Euromag (ST Applications I believe) something about "Crazy Sounds". Not to start a bad rumor, but: 1. Is this product available, and is it an add-on to CD? 2. Will Gribnif be selling it? 3. How much? 4. Specs? I reallly know nothing about the product, there was only a mention of it with no description. Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 196 Sun Nov 21, 1993 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 00:42 EST Dan or Rick, Any word from TKR about substituting that new TSENG chip for the one in the CD8? Curious they haven't replied, they should have the specs....JON ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 197 Sun Nov 21, 1993 E.DANIELS1 [Smoke Eater] at 03:59 EST I'm looking to buy the Megabus version of the Crazy Dots. Leave me E-Mail if you know of a source. Thanks! ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 198 Sun Nov 21, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 14:21 EST Jolly Jon, What new TSENG chip? Is there a different one in the CDII? Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 199 Sun Nov 21, 1993 C.OATES2 [Chris] at 15:15 EST Well, I finally have the ability to send in my CD for that CDII upgrade, but I don't have the number any more.. Dan? ~Chris ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 200 Sun Nov 21, 1993 T.HENRY12 [Tom Jr.] at 21:55 EST Chris and/or Dan, I'd like to upgrade also. Info?? Tom ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 201 Sun Nov 21, 1993 J.DINGA [Jolly Jon] at 23:40 EST Tom Jr., Did you read my previous post here & Dan's reply? ThThe new Tseng 'i' is supposed to be 40% faster, but we really need to know from TKR if its a pin compatible to the one in our CD*'s .......I life in hope:) JON ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 202 Mon Nov 22, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:26 EST Tom, The CDII uses the Tseng ET/4000 chip. Chris, Gribnif Software P.O. Box 779 Northamption, MA 01061 Al ------------ Category 17, Topic 12 Message 203 Mon Nov 22, 1993 GRIBNIF [Dan] at 14:03 EST Everyone, TKR has confirmed that there is a problem with using NVDI in 16-color mode on a Mega STe (and only under these circumstances.) They are sending me a newer version of the driver which should be here shortly. To upgrade, you should contact Jim Allen at: 508-475-3810. The cost is $25. We had a tough time finding a supplier for the new chip, but we have one now and they will be shipping them to us soon. E.Daniels, Unfortunately, TKR has stopped production of the Mega Bus version due to lack of sales. I'm not very happy about this, either. Perhaps you can find one used? Chris, You are correct; it probably is Aladdin. I know that older versions used their own text output routines, so that is probably still true. Tom Jr, Dave Small has had a Crazy Dots board for some time, and I discussed with him the changes needed to have Spectre work with it. Perhaps there is a newer version of the software which does this. I haven't heard of Crazy Sounds. I'll ask TKR about it. Jon, The reaction I got to the question about the new chip was a sort of "I haven't heard of it". They are going to look into it. Dan ------------