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The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 5 Fri Mar 24, 1989 SANDY.W [SysOp] at 14:15 EST Sub: Calamus Font Editor A place to discuss the Calamus Font Editor and Calamus fonts in general. 117 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 1 Tue Mar 27, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 09:14 EST and Todd, they are resolution "dependant" not independant. :-) Meaning, as you said, that they adjust to the resolution of the output device and are "dependant" on whatever that resolution may be. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 2 Wed Mar 28, 1990 T.JOHNSON4 at 00:53 PST Well said, Doug! (applause). :-) Nathan, I guess you're right. I guess I considered them independant of the resolution because the output resolution has no bearing on their original matrix. Same goes for display resolution obviously. Well, you know what I meant. If I had the foresight to log in at a reasonable hour, I could probably elucidate my thoughts properly. :-) ..Todd ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 4 Thu Mar 29, 1990 R.GILLIES at 01:40 PST Excuse me? Confused? Mua ? ;^> My statements aren't confused nor fantasy. Hasn't anyone read the latest issue of Publish? I had merely repeated snippets of what was said in thier article on the Apple Royal font and Adobe font controversy. In it, they give some basic descriptions of both fonts and thier importance and implemention. Todd, you misunderstood my point. To clarify my position, I dont think that Calamus has Adobe's proprietory "rastersizer" to optimize the character for the raster grid, nor should they. But that's the beauty of bypassing one and having multiple spline sets in a font code for the different printer resolutions and pointsizes. Think Todd, would a a solitary set of character splines for a thin stroked font like ARC EXTRA LIGHT for example, optimized for a 9 pin printer be right for a laser printer at small point sizes? If the same font contained a multiple set of splines optimized beforhand by the designer for 9, and 24 pin printers as well as lasers printers, then who needs to incorporate the optimizing alogrthms in the printer driver? All the driver need concern itself with is to read a decision table contained in the font on what set of splines to use within certain pointsizes and resolutions. Certainly, Calamus's font outline technology can be extended to utilize the next generation of font description, be it qubic splines, quadratic splines, adriatic splines, superficial intelligence or voodoo heuristics . After all, were only talking possibilities here. ;-) Also, in using multiple spline sets the computation for the optimization can be done by the font supplier and incorporated into the font, as a function inherent in the multiple spline sets. You could then throw out the optimizing "rastersizer" in the printer driver/kernal and the time consuming computations it must perform to make it look good on paper. Adobe had problems with earlier versions of it's interpreter's choosing of improper inking weights. And PostScript's not know for speed neither. To sum it up, with simple modification to the printer driver to accept "hint's" in the form of multiple sets of splines with a decision table contained within the font, we can realize certain advantages in print time and quality without Postscript's two part font method of hints in the font and an optimizing rasterizer interpreter in the printer driver. Requiescat in pace, ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 5 Thu Mar 29, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 08:09 EST Good point. It has been noted and will be addressed. Remember, we are not Adobe, we are just DMC and Ditek and ISD. We listen and if it makes sense and is doable, then we do it. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 6 Wed Apr 04, 1990 T.JOHNSON4 at 21:22 PDT Perhaps, Bob, I misunderstood your original message. It has been quite few days since I've been on GEnie and I can't recall what it was all about. Your rather odd vernacular might have thrown me off. By spline sets I assume you mean font outlines. True they do use spline curves (Bezier splines). Your multiple outline idea is in my opinion a large step backwards in font technology. Requiring me to produce multiple versions of the same typeface for the various printer resolutions and type sizes is about as uninspiring as drawing GDOS fonts. Scalable outlines have the big advantage of only needing one set of outline coordinates that can be used at any size and any resolution. I'm not willing to draw mulitple outlines. It takes many hours (in the hundreds) to properly create and test one outline. If I had to draw more I'd quit doing it and I'd think most other fontmakers would too. (an alternative of course is to charge accordingly.) I think optimised printing routines would save everyone a lot of grief. TODD ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 7 Fri Apr 06, 1990 R.GILLIES at 00:53 PDT Not a step backwards if a font editor would be written to check for minimum inking widths for the target resolution, warning the font designer so he can choose if an additional set of splines would warrent inclusion. Neocept (of Fontz! fame) uses such an inhouse tool with that capability. Granted, it is more work and hopefully that aspect of the editor can be helped, to some degree with appropriate software assistance. Otherwise, we'ld be in the same league, (hint wise, that is) as one of the third party PostScript fonts (group 3, I believe) that doesn't use the hinting that's Adobe's strength. Frankly, the single outline set method is the prefered one for use regular Joe's, not having to do the extra work involved with multiple sets. But, to say that doing otherwise is a step backwards doesn't isn't supported by what I feel would be significant gains in throughput without sacrificing quality. The extra work involved could be mitigated in a number of ways, in the font editor to produce the extra spline sets or at least identify which character needs it, in reference to Neocepts tool. I'm not saying that Calamus should adopt a new standard, abandoning the previous one. That would be a serious mistake. But some method shoud be carefully adopted to allow some form of hinting without sacrificing the speed that Calamus is famous for. ....Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 8 Fri Apr 06, 1990 R.GILLIES at 02:53 PDT Odd vernacular? Oh and what are you, a linguistics professor? ....trying not to be confusing.... ....semantically yours... ...Bob ;-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 9 Fri Apr 06, 1990 T.JOHNSON4 at 20:40 PDT Bob, I'm really confused about what you're trying to suggest. A font editor can't possibly know the target resolution. It can, I suppose, know of what resoltions are possible. It also cannot know the target type size. all of this has a bearing on the rasterisation (which again, isn't handled by the font editor or the fonts - that's Calamus's job). Which all comes back to my earlier suggestion that Calamus be the one to provide hinting since it will definately know the target type size and printer resolution. The scaling is already done nicely, the rasterisation leaves a bit to be desired but i'm sure they can improve on that. Hinting is a poor term here since it suggests fonts. Intelligent rasterizing might be a more appropriate term - after all it's the printing process we're talking about here - not font designing. ..Todd (linguini expert) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 10 Fri Apr 06, 1990 R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant] at 22:07 PDT What do you guys think of Apple's 'grid-snapping' as an optimizer? (That's the technology that Apple's purportedly using for System 7.0). ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 11 Mon Apr 09, 1990 T.JOHNSON4 at 02:17 PDT As long as Apple's grid snapping is somewhat intelligent, then I'm for it. What I mean by that is this. If the first stem of a lowercase "m" turns out to be say.. 4 pixels wide, then I hope the next two end up 4 pixels wide as well. (assuming of course that the outline has them drawn as evenly weighted strokes.) What articles have you read, Ron, that explains the Royal format? I'd be interested in reading it [them]. PS: It's also important that any other characters that have strokes whos width is identical to that "m" stroke, be 4 pixels wide. Adobe's "hints" which are basically very intelligent grid snapping routines, have this down to a fine art. ..Todd ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 12 Mon Apr 09, 1990 R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant] at 19:24 PDT Herein lies the future of Macintosh, eh? Since System 7.0 will be relying solely on this 'snapping' thing, they'd better make it good. However, I think they are planning on using this techique more as a screen font improvement (hopefully to combat Display PostScript and ATM, though I think it's possible that users may react poorly). The WORST thing they could do (yes, Todd, even worse than not being con- sistent across characters, like you say :-), is to come up with some fancy screen font method that shows lovely Calamus-like text in all their applications, then NOT use the exact same algorithm for printer fonts. The whole point here, is not to have perfect screen text, but perfect printed text, and an excellent representation of them on-screen. We shall see. I think I read most of my info on the Royal (now called something else, I believe) in Macintosh mags talking about System 7.0, so I don't think they got real down and dirty about specifics of the type itself. Just "Hey, Kids! Amaze your friends" type of stuff, I think. I'll look it up for you. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 13 Tue Apr 10, 1990 TPHOMMEL [brother Denn] at 06:24 EDT Royal fonts = True Font. Suggest you read the editorial in the May Personal Publishing (same issue has the very brief review of Calamus). nufsed... dmh ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 14 Wed Apr 11, 1990 T.JOHNSON4 at 02:37 PDT Thanks Dennis (and Ron). I haven't seen the May issue yet. That's right; True Type, I remember now. ..Todd ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 15 Sun Apr 15, 1990 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 10:04 EDT You can now find this topic archived and placed in the library. It will be out as soon as one of us clears it. The filename is CAT16_T5.ARC and the file number is #14867. The bulk of this topic can now be found there. If you need information on this product, I would suggest this file. Enjoy! ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 16 Sun Apr 15, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 12:47 EDT That would be the ISD library number 30. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 17 Mon Apr 23, 1990 R.GILLIES at 03:00 PDT Nathan, does the lates revision of the FontEditor allow a larger workspace? ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 18 Mon Apr 23, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 09:46 EDT What revision of the Calamus Font Editor he asks in puzzlement? ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 19 Mon Apr 23, 1990 R.GILLIES at 19:30 PDT It was mentioned somewhere that a version of FontEditor for use with the Moniterm monitor is available. I dont know if that version allows for a larger workspace. Currently, the fonteditor is the only way that I can trace a screen capture (with Bezier splines) for later editing in O-Line. A larger workspace would allow for more detail. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 20 Mon Apr 23, 1990 R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant] at 21:51 PDT I can answer that. The version that runs on the Moniterm does indeed have much larger workspace, but it is centred on the 1280x960 screen, so using it on an SM124 means that that 'larger workspace' is completely inaccessible. Also, even if you had a Moniterm, you wouldn't be able to use the screen capture routine, because of course the screen memory for the Moniterm is on the video board, and not in memory. I've yet to see a screen capture utility that works on the Moniterm. Even doing screen dumps for printing, I have to use the PD BIGSCREEN program on my SM124 and PRETEND I'm using a Moniterm, then capture that. I think that you're using the only system as it is. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 21 Tue Apr 24, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 09:34 EDT Which brings up a good point addressed to the few thousand people that drop by this category on a regular basis :-) if any of you happen to be brilliant programmer types, how about a program for capturing a screen dump off the Moniterm??!! ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 22 Tue Apr 24, 1990 NEVIN-S at 15:10 EDT Interesting that you should ask....The German big screen program does an IMG screen dump at Moniterm resoltion. I tried it and it worked very well. The IMG file comes in at 152K, but hey, at least it works..! Perhaps the Font Editor will run under BigScreen and you can do a screen dump?? --Nevin ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 23 Tue Apr 24, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 15:50 EDT Where do I obtain that program? :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 24 Tue Apr 24, 1990 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 19:53 EDT BigScreen is online in library 2. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 25 Tue Apr 24, 1990 A.VALENT at 21:53 EDT I've used O_Line with Darek Mihocka's MONSTER.PRG and gotten a *much* larger workspace - also used Calamus with that and with BIGSCREEN. I've found it much more comfortable to be able to move around and have a larger image (my eyes aren't what they used to be!). Nathan, would the Moniterm version of the font editor work w ith these "virtual screen" generators - and how much, if anything, would it cost for me as a definitely registered font editor owner to get it? ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 26 Tue Apr 24, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 22:32 EDT I cannot be sure if it will work as I do not have it but I can tell you that I will charge you nothing to change to the large screen version. Just send in your disks and ask for it. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 27 Tue Apr 24, 1990 R.GILLIES at 21:17 PDT To R.GRANT or anyone else with BIGSCREEN, SM124, and FontEditor, does a version of FontEditor exists that will do a screen capture? I've tried my version, and it's merely a the same size, but centered onto the "virtual screen"? Maybe I just wish there is such a version, but it sure would be nice if a version expands the workspace on such moniters. FontEditor could be used as a good way to trace onscreen images. As it stands, detail is lost due to fitting it to the workspace. ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 28 Wed Apr 25, 1990 SGUBER at 20:38 CDT Nathan: I would be more than happy to write you a screen do ump for a moniterm monitor. Please loan me yours to test out the program. I will return it after I have dumped several thousand pictures to make sure that it works on all occasions. :-) Sol /s ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 29 Wed Apr 25, 1990 R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant] at 20:23 PDT Hey, pretty good, Sol. Why don't you borrow their ISAC board while you're at it? . To all concerned: At work I have a Moniterm, and at home an SM124, so I use BIGSCREEN to duplicate my work environment when it is called for. Yes, the Moniterm version does give you a larger workspace when running under BIGSCREEN, but the screen capture gives you nonsense. Same as the Moniterm. It looks in a part of memory that doesn't happen to contain any screen info unless you are actually using the SM124 in its native mode. Unfortunately, BIGSCREEN slows things down pretty good, and using one of the software accelerators ruins the way the Fonteditor redraws the screen. But in general, if you want a larger workspace, get the Moniterm version of Fonteditor, and BIGSCREEN, and you're laughing. But you WON'T be able to snap a picture of the screen under ANY of these circumstances, except in the standard SM124 manner. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 30 Wed Apr 25, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 23:24 EDT Thanks for the laugh Sol. I needed it. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 31 Wed Apr 25, 1990 R.GILLIES at 22:32 PDT Snapping while in BigScreen is certainly viable. I doit all the time while in VIDI-ST (mono mode), with DTPAINT.ACC and Migraph's IMG_SNAP. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 32 Sun May 13, 1990 SGUBER at 20:17 CDT I have uploaded a DEMO program to automatically convert PD Calamus fonts to make them slightly different. It is file 15185. The DEMO will allow for BOLD and for COMPRESS. You will still need to kern all the letters, but the program will do the rest first. TY H he complete ro program will have many mroe functions, inclduing a su user user ones. Tell me how to modify a font character, and I will pt ut it into the program. This is a suppliment to the Calamus Font Editor and will not replace it. , but it is nice to have. Sol Guber ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 33 Sun May 13, 1990 R.GILLIES at 18:52 PDT Well, I've got some C code for bezier display. You'll have to roll your own data structure but what the hey. There's also some GFA and FORTH code on GEnie, too. Let me know if you could use the C code. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 34 Tue May 15, 1990 R.GILLIES at 23:58 PDT More wish list babble: Font path editing enhancments: CLONE: The ability to create a new and separate vector path by selecting control points inorder, even from unrelated, separate paths. Example: The medical symbol for the female gender is an "O" with a connected "+" symbol below it. These could be separate characters in a font. Concievably, one could paste both characters to one cell and using an imaginary CLONE function to select by hand a group of control points, inorder, from both letterforms to create a third and separate path. With a little touching up and discarding the previous letterforms, one could now have a new letterform using the previous two as templates. Since one merely has to select a control point rather than to create a new letterform from scratch, an immense improvement in the precision of path creation is achieved. Another valid reason for this function would be to salvage fonts created from intersecting paths, a problem described in my article FONTPATH.ARC I uploaded on GEnie. The bottom line of having this function is to increase the productivety of font artists in creating a wealth of typstyles thereby increasing the appeal of ISD's stable of excellent programs. ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 35 Mon May 28, 1990 M.CRISLIP1 at 18:19 EDT Yo! Check out my latest offering! It's a complete Schoolbook font. I hope y'all like it. Regards, Mark N. Crislip ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 36 Tue May 29, 1990 S.CEROVICH [Page Design] at 01:11 EDT Mark... I'll be downloading it - if it's as good as your other stuff, it'll be outstanding. Cheers Sandy ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 37 Mon May 28, 1990 C.F.JOHNSON at 23:32 PDT Hi folks...I wanted to leave a note here saying that I just discovered (tonight!) that the new version of MultiDesk (2.1) works just GREAT with the Calamus Font Editor accessory! (Previous versions of MultiDesk didn't get along with the Font Editor...and for the life of me, I'm not sure what it was that I changed in the new MultiDesk to let them coexist...but I'm not gonna look a gift horse in the mouth.) Now, finally, you can run the Calamus Font Editor as if it were a program (through MultiDesk's program mode) and not have it eating up almost 400K of RAM as a resident desk accessory. Check out the CodeHead Category (CAT 32) for more info about purchasing or upgrading MultiDesk. - Charles F. Johnson, CodeHead Software ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 38 Tue May 29, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 08:36 EDT Hmmmm :-) he says, looking around. I don't see that accessory here so I cannot try it. Please send me up a copy Charles. I'm sure its great if you wrote it :- ). ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 39 Tue May 29, 1990 R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant] at 23:04 PDT You don't have a copy of Multidesk? Boy, you HAVE been living under a rock. Charles, I don't know what the fuss is about, I've been using Multidesk 1.82 and the Calamus Fonteditor in Program mode for quite some time now. It always worked fine for me. I even renamed the Multidesk to Fonted.PRG, and installed it in Hotwire. No problem. Mayhaps there was something else wrong that was causing you to believe it was Multidesk? Oh, I had to set the buffer to about 512K, but since I was running it as a Program it didn't matter. Mind you, my days with the Calamus Fonteditor are limited. :-) But not with Codehead products. I just got my Hotwire 2.3 and Multidesk 2.1 updates in the mail today, and I have a new name for the Codeheads. I shall henceforth refer to you as the The Boggle Boys. That's cause when I started reading the list of things you can do with Hotwire 2.3, I wuz boggled. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 40 Wed May 30, 1990 C.F.JOHNSON at 08:49 PDT Ron, Thanks...I'm not sure that "the Boggle Boys" has quite the same ring as "CodeHead Software"...(not that "CodeHead" is necessarily better...just doesn't have the same ring). :) There definitely was a problem with the Calamus Font Editor and earlier versions of MultiDesk; in fact, it's even mentioned in the Font Editor manual. But it looks like it may have been fixed as early as version 1.8 of MultiDesk. (Hey, I dunno...I just write code -- I'm as astounded as anyone when it actually works too!) - Charles ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 41 Wed May 30, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 14:16 EDT :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 42 Wed May 30, 1990 R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant] at 20:41 PDT Hmmm. Don't do much programming, but I DO use Michtron 3.0, so I can] relate to the astonishement bit. To keep things on topic :-) Multidesk REALLY increased the usability of the Fonteditor. Also, you'll soon be getting a shareware cheque for DM, I finally switched from SB when I found out that you can install a DM .PRE Folks, if this is Greek to you, I suggest checking out Charles' Desk Manager, version(hmmm, well, the latest) and Hotwire!. The combination allows you to set up HOTKEYS for all of your favorite \AUTO\.ACC\.SYS\.ETC files so one keypress will automatically rename desk accessories, auto folder programs, and whatever else you want loaded, then be nice enough to reboot the computer for you. That's really neat.] ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 43 Wed May 30, 1990 R.GILLIES at 21:44 PDT I've been converted to a Superboot and Revolver disciple recently. I cant say I can get along without it these days. Makes installing a G+PLUS, ASSIGN.SYS file in my second partition for EASYDRAW the cat's meow. ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 44 Sun Jun 10, 1990 D.HARRIS8 at 22:51 EDT Is this a new version of BIGSCREEN that works with the mono monitor and Calamus? I tried the version I had and Calamus just bombed incessantly. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 45 Sun Jun 10, 1990 R.GILLIES at 20:16 PDT Methinks you have to experiment with the screen size ratios to get the configuration that's unexplosive. I've tried Calamus, Fonteditor, VIDI-ST (640X800 only) with good results. ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 46 Mon Jun 11, 1990 A.VALENT at 19:57 EDT Both Calamus and O_Line work with BIGSCREEN. I obtained the Moniterm version of the font editor and it also will work with it. Try Darek Mihocka's MONSTER Moniterm emulator to see if that will work for you. BTW, I've installed the OVERSCAN hardware mod, and Calamus and font editor work fine with that - and *man* is it a joy to have the SM124's screen FILLED with pixels. Working on Calamus with 706x480 resolution may not equal a Moniterm, but it's the best $2.00 mod I've ever seen! There's less screen speed loss with it than with the larger virtual screens as well. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 47 Mon Jun 11, 1990 R.GILLIES at 21:38 PDT Where can I get this modificaton? ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 48 Wed Jun 13, 1990 A.VALENT at 20:30 EDT Bob Gillies: Cat 4, Topic 3 discusses the Overscan mod. It's a 4 wire and one SPDT swit modification to the motherboard. If you have a Mega rev 5.0 board, it's a piece of cake. Download OVERSCAN.ARC, wade through the writing, throw it away, then make the mod according to the diagram for the 5.0 board. If you have a 1040, you'll have to figure out where the wiring attaschments go and where to make the two necessary trace cuts. For the money, there's no way you can beat it. I currently run 704x512 pixels on an SM124. Full-screen display with a 1" to 1" monitor to printout ratio yields about 6.5 inches vertically and almost a full page width horizontally. When I'm printing stuff out, I find myself sneaking looks at the filled screen and marveling - I always felt cheated by the stock display! >*s ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 49 Wed Jun 13, 1990 R.GILLIES at 22:02 PDT Thanx Valenti, can this be done to an ancient 520ST? ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 50 Wed Jun 13, 1990 R.GILLIES at 22:07 PDT Valenti, can the Overscan mod be easily turned off (or on)? ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 51 Thu Jun 14, 1990 A.VALENT at 22:29 EDT Overscan is on/offed by a DPST swictch. I've mounted mine on the front of my mega ndext to the T-16 hardware switch. Going from overscan to normal does require a reboot. The mod works with any ST. Problem is that he only gives diagrams for the Mega board and for a 520STFM (modulator) board. We need somebody who understand circuitry and has access to the Atari board circuit layouts (in other words, a dealer) to draw diagrams showing connection and trace-cut points for the 1040 and non-modulator 520. After some more adjustment (playing) with the monitor, I'm now opperating at 688x512 resolution with the entire screen filled. That's a 1.35 to 1 aspect ratio, and gives me a Calamus working area of 6" high by 8" wide with the document being displayed at its actual (how it will be on paper) size. Not much if any loss of screen resolution since I'm displaying 112 more pixels vertically and 48 more horizontally. It's a sight to see! ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 52 Fri Jun 15, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 08:27 EDT If I didn't have a Moniterm I'd be getting excited here. Sounds great. Thanks for sharing this info with everyone. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 53 Fri Jun 15, 1990 R.GILLIES at 19:06 PDT That sounds terrific. I've always wanted to see more onscreen. I'll ask more question about Overscan in the Hardware Topic. See you there. ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 54 Sat Aug 11, 1990 T.JOHNSON4 [Cherry Fonts] at 00:48 PDT Nathan, what will the upgrade path be, from the old Calamus font ediotor to the new "hinting" one? ..Todd ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 55 Sat Aug 11, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 09:17 EDT Cannot answer that yet Todd. Perhaps after Duesseldorf. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 56 Mon Sep 03, 1990 C.EISENSCHMI [Ike @ T.S.I.] at 23:10 PDT Nathan, what is the limit of point and vectors per letter. I was doing a tracing job, yes the copy function works with the Moniterm, and after a bunch of points the editor would not put any more points down. Waaaa! Ike ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 57 Tue Sep 04, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 08:57 EDT Ike, to the best of my knowledge, the only limit was in memory. I'll check that out here and let you know. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 58 Wed Sep 05, 1990 C.EISENSCHMI [Ike @ T.S.I.] at 20:39 PDT With 4 megs, I figured I could go forever, however, FE had other ideas. I tried and tried to add to no avail. Otherwise, it would have been a bit of work, but the results (or rather 1/2 the results) were fantastic especially at 500 points! Yeow! I'll never use a bit-mapped image again when I need great output. Thanks for checking on that for me. Ike ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 59 Thu Sep 06, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 09:48 EDT Ike, I had Mario sit down for about a half an hour using the Font Editor and creating a character and adding and adding points He did hundreds of vector points without running out of memory. I don't know exactly what happened in your case, but as I had thought, there is certainly enough memory to create as obnoxious a character as you may wish. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 60 Fri Sep 07, 1990 T.JOHNSON4 [Cherry Fonts] at 01:20 PDT I once did a logo using the Calamus FE that had well over 200 vectors in it. It took 20 seconds to redraw on the screen but I didn't run out of memory. I use a Mega 2. The company I did the logo for went belly-up about 3 months later. :-( ..Todd ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 61 Fri Sep 07, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 08:24 EDT By the way, now that I think of it, how many of you entered the PUBLISH Magazine annual DTP contest? Certainly people such as yourself Todd, have creations worth sending in. They have fairly substantial prizes in many categories. Just a thought. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 62 Mon Sep 10, 1990 T.JOHNSON4 [Cherry Fonts] at 00:53 PDT Can't figure it out Nathan, every time I get creative, a new font emerges. If someone were to have a font design contest, I'd enter it. Seriously, I don't have anything kicking around that would qualify. There's no time to sit and draw something up when I'd likely lose the contest anyway. :-) ..Todd (Type is my life.) :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 63 Mon Sep 10, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 08:25 EDT Todd, have you ever considered entering the PUBLISH contest? They have about 20 categories, and there is a category of Logo's and such. Just a thought. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 64 Mon Sep 10, 1990 NEVIN-S at 10:56 EDT I would LOVE to see an ST user get mentioned (even WIN) in that Publish contest. Go for it Todd..! --Nevin ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 65 Mon Sep 10, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 13:59 EDT Nevin's right there. I would also LOVE to see an ST user get anything. I don't care what ST software was used. I have been going around and around with PUBLISH for years already. Bascially they say they are a non-platform specific DTP publication. The fact is that they are only non-platform specific as long as your platform is a Mac or IBM compatible. I repeat, they have lots of categories. All of you out there that use Calamus professionally, please take the time to submit an entry to them. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 66 Mon Sep 10, 1990 NEVIN-S at 15:35 EDT I had this fantasy of doing something amazing and then entering it with the fake info of "Computer: NeXT. Software: FrameMaker" and winning and then spilling the beans..! ;-) --Nevin ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 67 Mon Sep 10, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 22:11 EDT They'd never believe it was created with FrameMaker. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 68 Mon Sep 10, 1990 R.GILLIES at 22:35 PDT Nathan, why don't you send all the contest entries, specifiying the equipment and software used, to Publish! and see what turns up!? I don't mean to brag, but my contest entry should turn a few Freehand heads, and I'm sure there're others with more talent in their little pinky than I can ever hope for! ;) ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 69 Tue Sep 11, 1990 TPHOMMEL [brother Denn] at 07:40 EDT What a pleasant surprise the other day when I picke up the mail! There thful! Fonts (several months ago, I had ordered r of Mark's great fonts). In the package were a ter from Mark advising me that he had updated several of luding three of the four that I had purchased, a disk ng the upgraded fonts, and a set of sample printouts of all of fonts. n you consider that Mark generally asks only $15 for any of nd offers special deals if you buy two or more at the same onsider that package to be true customer support! It is too er vendors, including those who sell their products for on't take a lesson from Mark Crislip and others like him. , Mark, and I will be taking advantage of your latest special soon as I can get my hands on some US funds. I figure, for you are offering, I may as well have the whole Mirthful! nufsed... mh ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 70 Tue Sep 11, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 08:45 EDT I have no idea what the previous message said. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 71 Tue Sep 11, 1990 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:14 CDT Nathan, it said MH was very happy to receive fonts in the mail and will be ordering more. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 72 Tue Sep 11, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 22:05 EDT :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 73 Sat Sep 15, 1990 M.CRISLIP1 at 07:35 EDT Dennis was saying that I did some adjustments on some of my fonts and did a free mail-out to everyone that had ordered them.... By the way, has anyone tried out any Mirthful Fonts! on version 1.09N? I have been using TypeCAD for most of my design work and am wondering if anyone has had any problems. I would appreciate it if someone would let me know. Thanks, Mark N. Crislip ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 74 Sat Sep 15, 1990 M.CRISLIP1 at 22:38 EDT Groan.... You don't have to answer that, I just got the bad news via E-Mail.... Mark ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 75 Sat Sep 15, 1990 T.JOHNSON4 [Cherry Fonts] at 19:51 PDT :-) I know how yah feel, Mark. What'dya say we git together and lynch Gregg? (Kidding!) Actually TypeCAD's a killer font editor. Every program's allowed one bug. (ONE BUG!) :-) ..Todd ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 76 Sun Sep 16, 1990 R.GRANT11 [Ron Grant] at 00:54 PDT Todd: ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 77 Sun Sep 16, 1990 S.CEROVICH [Page Design] at 05:51 EDT Mark: As soon as I got 1.09N I loaded all of your fonts in and out of the Calamus FE... that cured the problem. Since Gregg got the problem ironed out so quickly with TypeCad, I almost feel like I wasted my time... but then again, if I hadn't, I'd have to do the same thing, loading them in and out of TypeCad... and since I don't have the fixed version yet & have to depend on Cana-dah Post.... Never mind, you get my drift :-) Sandy ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 78 Sun Sep 16, 1990 M.CRISLIP1 at 18:27 EDT Hi all... Just thought that I'd let y'all know. If you own (and have registered!) any Mirthful! Fonts and you also have 1.09N and they don't work, check out message 45 in CAT 7 TOP 7 (Mirthful Fonts!) to find out what to do. Hmm... Mark ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 79 Tue Sep 18, 1990 ISD [Nathan] at 00:12 EDT :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 80 Mon Apr 15, 1991 S.TURENNE at 22:07 EDT Hi Guys! I'm trying to make some changes on a font for use with Outline. Is there any rules to make the changes to be Outline compatible? Thanks for any tips. S.TURENNE ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 81 Tue Apr 16, 1991 T.JOHNSON4 [Cherry Fonts] at 04:15 EDT S.TURENNE, (Got a first name?) It's really simple to keep a font "O-line happy". Just make sure that one vector path does not cross another. It's that simple. If you feel you absolutely must cross paths, it won't really be INCOMPATIBLE, it'll just SHOW the crossed paths if you happen to use Outline Art to display your text in an OUTLINE style, using anything less than a 100% raster fill. Hope that helped, Todd @ Cherry Fonts ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 82 Tue Apr 16, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 11:00 EDT What Todd said :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 83 Sun Apr 21, 1991 S.TURENNE at 11:03 EDT Thanks Todd Johnson, I'll try to check my font. Will O-Line know by itself if it's compatible? Will it be automaticly choosable from O=Line? PS: My first name is Sebastien S.TURENNE ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 84 Sun Apr 21, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 11:44 EDT Outline Art will load in all valid Calamus fonts. If they have crossed vector paths it will be obvious. If you need to create a single word using a font that was made witha crossed path, enter the word, change the text object to a path object and manipulate the vectors until you are satisfied. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 85 Sun Apr 21, 1991 T.JOHNSON4 [Cherry Fonts] at 23:24 EDT Sebastien, Just to clear a little fog here; an outline INCOMPATIBLE font just means that the crossed vector paths will show if you happen to use the fonts as an outlined style. It'll load fine and Outline won't care in the slightest. It's really an aesthetics problem. It'll just look funny under certain circumstances (such as outlined text.) ..Todd (Here at Cherry Fonts, we use the term "Outline Happy".) :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 86 Sun Apr 21, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 23:47 EDT :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 87 Mon Apr 22, 1991 S.TURENNE at 23:10 EDT Yo! Ok, maybe I forgot to tell you but my real problem is that I can't load my modified font into Outline. It's not even in the selector when I tr (sorry!) When I try to load a font from Outline... It's like it doesn't know it's a font... The font was loadable before... Anythings I should check? thanks for any help! S.TURENNE ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 88 Tue Apr 23, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 00:08 EDT Can you load the font into Calamus? Has the font ever been saved in the Calamus Font Editor? ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 89 Tue Apr 23, 1991 T.JOHNSON4 [Cherry Fonts] at 06:18 EDT S.Turenne, That's truly odd! Is the filename still _______.CFN? That .CFN filename extension is VERY important. There's no reason I can think of for that problem (other than and improper filename extension.) ..Todd ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 90 Thu Apr 25, 1991 S.TURENNE at 00:18 EDT Hi Todd, So if I follow what you're telling me, every font should be loadable into Outline. I downloaded a few font from here which aren't loadable like my own modified font... I can have them in Calamus but not in Outline I thought it was normal and never ask any questions about it before. I've been experiencing some other problems with my Outline. I guess I'll have to send it to ISD after all. I'll check but I'm pretty sure I used the CFN extension. Thanks! C'Ya! Sebastien Turenne. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 91 Thu Apr 25, 1991 S.TURENNE at 00:41 EDT Hi Nathan, I'm really sorry but I still have some problems with the bulletin board commands. I didn't saw you're messages (for the second time now) until I red them on the printout I'm doing after each of my GEnie log off. So this time I called back to reply... don't take this personnaly, I'm not trying to ignore you... Like I was telling Todd, yes I can load the modified font into Calamus but not ... not into Outline. I did the changes with the Clamus Font Editor so yes it has always been saved with it. I might go in Ontario soon and I thought I could drop my Outline disk at the ISD office. I know the mailing adress is 2651 John St. Unit 3 in Mar in Markham. Is it the same adress to visit you? C'YA! Sebastien Turenne ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 92 Thu Apr 25, 1991 T.JOHNSON4 [Cherry Fonts] at 01:25 EDT Sebastien, I'm not a real Outline expert since I only have the demo version. All the fonts I have load in fine. Of course.. they are all mine. All the Calamus default fonts load in fine. I know lots of Outline owners and none have ever mentioned this problem. Have you tried using a fresh copy of Outline Art off of your master disk? If there's a font loading problem with OutLine, I'd sure like to know about it. Nathan? What thinketh thou? ..Todd ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 93 Thu Apr 25, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 08:34 EDT Sebastien...We have never had a problem loading any Calamus fonts into Outline Art. So, yes, stop by, give us 5 minutes and we'll re-do your disk. Todd's point is a good one. Try using an new copy of the original. 2651 John St Unit #3 is exactly where we are located. Drop by anytime. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 94 Thu Apr 25, 1991 S.CEROVICH [Page Design] at 23:24 EDT Jus t to add my two cents worth... If you say the font doesn't show up in the file selector, it doesn't sound like an O-Line problem. It has to be the extension. O-Line couldn't care less what's inside a font file until you actually load it. The font should be showing up in the file selector at least, particulary if other fonts ARE showing... Sandy ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 95 Fri Apr 26, 1991 R.GILLIES at 23:47 EDT Is it possible that the font has a corrupted cell? ...Bob ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 96 Sun Apr 28, 1991 S.TURENNE at 12:25 EDT Hi guys! I checked and the problem is not from the extention. My modified font has the same extention (.CFN) as the other fonts. I recopied the O-Line program on my hard disk from my original disk and nothing changed. I still have the problem. I noticed a bell sound when I go in (or out) my font folder from the file selector in O-Line... What could it mean? Nathan, I don't know when I'm going to go near your office, maybe in two or three weeks so I think it would be faster to send it by mail... I really need it bad... I have a client waiting for me and I can't do much with a defective copy... C'Ya all! Sebastien Turenne ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 97 Sun Apr 28, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 16:01 EDT Sebastien, save the mail, EMAIL it to me. I can download it tomorrow at the office, figure out the problem with the font, fix the problem and email it back to you tomorrow night. :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 98 Thu May 02, 1991 S.TURENNE at 10:42 EDT Hi Nathan! Too late it's already mailed. ISD should have received it by now. Please send it back as soon as posible. Thanks. C'Ya! Sebastien Turenne ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 99 Thu May 02, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 12:06 EDT Sebastien, it arrived yesterday and leaves back for you today. The good news, we could not duplicate any problem and in our opinion, the program worked as it should. Regardless, we made a new copy for you. When you get it back, remove every single ACC that you may have installed and try again. Make sure it works and then start adding ACC's back in one by one until you locate the culprit. I hope this is the answer because, as I mentioned, everything worked here. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 100 Thu May 02, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 12:11 EDT I just checked with the guys. What they tried was loading in a great selection of fonts since we have fairly much all of them. No problem. You did not send us the font that was causing you the problem which was an oversight. EMail it here and will check it immediately and get back to you on Monday at the latest. One other thought, is if you viewed the font with your FILL OFF from with Outline Art. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 101 Sun May 05, 1991 S.TURENNE at 02:53 EDT Hi Nathan! I'm very happy to know it's on his way back. I still haven't received it. Maybe on monday... how did you send it? C.O.D.? Prioritary Post? Has for my problems, I tried many things and I beginning to think it may be my hard disk. I'm not capable to load the font into FONTED anymore. I tried with Selectric or with LOADKBD,ACC and there's no differences. Neither without accesories. Maybe it's because I'm running it on a 1040? As for the font I don't have it under hand but I'm experinceing the same problem with BRNDTNGO.ARC and the MICRON familly I downloaded from here... Anyways I'll try to Email it to you as soon as possible... C'Ya and thanks for the support... Sebastien Turenne ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 102 Mon May 06, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 09:03 EDT Sorry Sebastien, it was "mailed". :-) ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 103 Tue May 07, 1991 S.TURENNE at 02:18 EDT Hi Nathan! Ok I received it today and all the others bugs aren't there anymore but I'm still unable to have some of the fonts. I'm still hearing the bell sound when I'm entering the font folder from O-Line and Fonted. Curiously it's also from these program that I'm unable to access some fonts. All is working perfectly within Calamus. I tried everything without any auto programs and/or accessories but I'm mainly working in french so I need to have the french keyboard either with Selectric or Loadkbd. Which one is the more compatible or is there any other programs to have the french caracters? Let me know... Thanks Sebastien Turenne ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 104 Tue May 07, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 09:30 EDT I forget the name off the top of my head but I do know that we are 100% compatible or were :-) with Atari's own French Keyboard driver. I received your emailed font and will check it here today and post the results. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 105 Wed May 08, 1991 S.TURENNE at 23:45 EDT Hi Nathan! I received my O-Line back and I'm not experiencing any bugs with it. The only exception was the font availability problem. So I thougth it out and the bell sound heard when I entered my font folder made me focus on the file selector... That was it! I changed the original Gem file selector for the FSELECT.PRG (an auto program by Martin Petzel) and everything is working out. I don't know why (maybe the 131 files in the folder!) but the GEM file selector didn't like my new fonts. Thanks for all the support... Sebastien Turenne PS: Let me know about the french keyboard compatibility... ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 106 Thu May 09, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 13:24 EDT Glad to hear you located the problem. As far as the French keyboard goes, I know we work with Atari's and I also have one from Quebec that also works (I forget the name offhand). ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 107 Thu May 30, 1991 J.COOPER21 at 01:56 EDT Is there any way to enlarge a specific character using the font editor? I've been wanting to use the copyright symbol but the swiss and time fonts that come with calamus have copyright symbols that are way too small compared to the rest of the letters. I've tried changing the point size in Calamus and then vertically kerning it to line up with the other letters. The problem with this is that when I kern the copyright symbol down, the text to the left of the symbol goes up. It seems hopeless. Also, is it possible to have a calculator function affect the entire font that is loaded? I sometimes need to run the same change on every character in a font and find it really tedius to have to make each calc seperately. Thank you. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 108 Thu May 30, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 13:45 EDT Jordan... Load the font in question into the Font Editor. Select the character in question, then use the calculator to enlarge both the x and y coordinates. Once its done, do the kerning also in the Font Editor and save the font. That's it. By the way, you are right, when using manual kerning if you kern a character up, then you must go over one character and kern it back down again but it is not difficult. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 109 Thu May 30, 1991 SGUBER at 22:42 EDT I wrote a utility to manipulate a font rather than a letter mathematically. This should do what you want. There should be a demo in the 30 cat. under my name SGUBER. Sol ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 110 Sat Jun 01, 1991 J.COOPER21 at 02:20 EDT new Nathan, about enlarging a character in the font editor: How can you enlarge the X and Y coordinates using the calculator? I tried letting x'=5*x and y'=5*y and other similar things with no success at all. Please give me specific instructions. Thanks. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 111 Sat Jun 01, 1991 SGUBER at 09:43 EDT Using the calculaator in the Font Editor, try x'+ =1.1*x, y'=1.1*y. This will give about 10% n increases in the size, . You will have to move the letter up about 640 every three times or so to get te he position back. It is very seldom that you multiply greater than 2 because you can mess up the letter good that way. Sol ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 112 Mon Jun 03, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 11:27 EDT Sol's answered that one for us. Since he's made about 100 fonts he's more experinced that we are. :-) Thanks Sol. Let us know how this formula works for you please. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 113 Thu Jun 20, 1991 J.HEPP1 at 02:03 EDT Nathan...Hope this question isn't redundant but...Is there going to be additional upgrade paths similar to the Calamus/Calamus SL for the Font Editor or O-line to get into some of the new modules when released? Also I crafted a font a while back but I used the Times which came with Calamus as a point of departure. The font is very nice for posters -very elegant with thin serifs- yet technically it still shows up as one of the Calamus fonts. It bears very, very little resemblance to its former self. Currently only the caps are done and I've thought about going back and completing the whole set to upload to all the nice folks who have supplied such professional looking fonts that I have been using, but if I've somehow cheated I don't want to go through the trouble. Start again with a blank file or is there somehow I can save it as mine? Thanx. Jeff Hepp. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 114 Thu Jun 20, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 10:05 EDT There will be logical upgrade paths for all ISD products. I'll let others answer your font question. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 115 Sat Oct 12, 1991 J.COOPER21 at 13:20 EDT Is there going to be an upgrade for the Calamus font editor? I really wish that it was not an accesory so I could use that spot for something else. ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 116 Sat Oct 12, 1991 ISD [Nathan] at 14:14 EDT Yes, there is an excellent upgrade coming, named Type ART. You will be pleased with this program. The DEMO version, albeit still in German in currently available in our library # 30. Nathan @ ISD ------------ Category 16, Topic 5 Message 117 Sat Oct 12, 1991 SFRT-ASST [Ken] at 14:37 EDT You can't run it in Multidesk? ------------