========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 7, Topic 25 Message 1 Sat Jan 04, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 21:25 EST CYBRTRCE.LZH has been uploaded to the libraries, file #22144. This program creates Cyber Sculpt extrude templates from DEGAS PI1,2 &3 files. It has a number of limitations, but generally produces reasonable results from simple images. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 2 Sat Feb 08, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 23:51 EST I am currently at work updating my CEDIT3D program at the urging of several people. CEDIT3D performs recoloring of CAD-3D object faces. I would like to solicit any and all sugestions for modifications and improvements. The following are features I do plan to add: - Works in all VDI resolutions. - Extended 4096 color palette for STe and TT. - Control of wireframe color and color group information. - Option to view all objects at once (display only). - An accessory version will be considered if there is interest. Claude Geeroms has also suggested I write a program to "engrave" a CAD-3D object into a flat slab, along the lines of what the CAD-3D subtract function would do if it worked right. Would there be interest in such a project if done as shareware? John Stanford ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 3 Sun Feb 09, 1992 R.MONFORT1 [LEXICOR] at 00:19 EST John. Yes, it is a very nice program. Ringo. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 4 Sun Feb 09, 1992 SGUBER at 09:33 EST John: If it would work in the TT modes, it would be a real needed program. Sol ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 5 Sun Feb 09, 1992 W.VARGAS2 at 13:49 EST Two thumbs up for a program with those features!!!!!!! Give it a go! ----Wilton OSs ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 6 Sun Feb 09, 1992 C.GEEROMS at 18:58 EST If John works on a 3D "engraver" program, is it worth shareware $ to you? (meaning you paying HIM?) I think it is, and John's done some pretty neat stuff with this Render 512 program (amongst others) (I think he should package all these things into a Stanford 3D Utilities pak (shareware). Nice to see some excitement for the 3D stuff again, including Lexicor's stuff. Claude ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 7 Sun Feb 09, 1992 M.POCHE [Mick] at 22:32 EST An accessory version of CEDIT3D would be great! - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 8 Sun Feb 09, 1992 R.MONFORT1 [LEXICOR] at 22:57 EST Claude. I will sure support Johns Shareware program. So John let us know how much. Ringo. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 9 Mon Feb 10, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 23:00 EST Ringo, Thanks for your offer of support. Of course I have to write it before I can price it. Based upon my previous releases that should work out to 2 cents per hour development time x 5 shareware payments = big $$$! John ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 10 Mon Feb 10, 1992 R.MONFORT1 [LEXICOR] at 23:40 EST John. big $$$?!? WEll I have to download the stuff that I can relate too, or use with Chronos. The 3D2 files format stuff should work! Take care! Ringo. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 11 Tue Feb 11, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 01:57 EST John Subtract function (especially one that doesn't take forever and then bomb like CAD-3D2 does in one meg) would be very useful. It might be a while before I could get the bucks for shareware, though. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 12 Tue Feb 11, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 18:24 EST Bad news for Chronos users. It is not possible at this time to extend CEDIT3D to use the 4096 color extended palette. I spoke with the programmer of Chronos and learned that Chronos will not currently use the extended palette information. Worse yet Chronos will mis-interperet this information with dire results. He indicated that he might include this support in the next upgrade of Chronos. It did seem to work fine with CAD-3D and RENDER 512 however. I should be receiving a copy of Lexicor's 3D4 file format which will allow objects to be shaded with the extended palette. At that time I hope to incorporate it into CEDIT3D. The current fate of CEDIT3D is on hold at the present time pending developments. John Stanford ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 13 Tue Feb 18, 1992 N.FRAGA at 00:12 EST The other day I downloaded an animation file, I think it was titled something like "visitors" I'm not not sure, but it's was about 285K. Once I finsihed downloading I then used the LZH program to decompress. I have a 520 STE with 1MB and the internal DS drive, I understand that the whole decompress file will a 720k disk, and should work in a 1MB computer, I can't seem to make it work correctly however, am I doing something wrong here? I sure would like help since even with a 2400 modem, it took a long time to download, and if I am able it I would then like to download the WINNER demo for the STE soon. TThanks Norman Fraga ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 14 Sat Feb 22, 1992 W.VARGAS2 at 11:07 EST Hi Norman! 1st. thing: Are you sure it is a LZH-compressed file? If it has an extension of .ARC, then you're using the wrong program... If that's not the case, then try it again, write down the prompts and error messages that the computer gives you and post them here. That way, I can have an idea of what's going on. Believe me, I know the feeling of downloading a L-O-N-G file only to find out that it doesn't work... :) --- Wilton ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 15 Mon Mar 09, 1992 SANDY.W [RT SysOp] at 16:42 EST Older messages have been archived and are available in file #23072. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 16 Wed Mar 11, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 21:59 EST Version 2.0 of the 3D object colorizer is now in the libraries as CEDIT3D2.LZH, file #23101. This version adds a number of features and will work in any resolution (including TT's). This version is shareware. John Stanford ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 17 Sat Mar 28, 1992 P.VARN [Paul Varn] at 05:09 EST I just purchased Cyber Studio 2.0 and Cybermate used. Is this software currently supported? If there is a version of Cyber Studio 2.2 or later, how do I upgrade to it. I tried to use the HARDCOPY.PRG with a properly edited ASSIGN.SYS and G+PLUS. I got 4 bombs after selecting a file to print. Any suggestions? I've never had anything to do with CAD before. What I've seen with this program looks interesting. There's just about enough that works on the disks to play with but too many things that don't work. It seems all the demos require 2.2 or higher, and I couldn't print in CAD3D with the Epson driver on my Degas Elite disk, or with Hardcopy. I'm going to visit the library here and see if there are any helpfull files. I'm interested in supporting any shareware stuff for these programs if I can be assured of getting them to work or buy upgrades. Does Antic still exist? -Pv- ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 18 Sat Mar 28, 1992 J.COLE18 [John Cole] at 06:37 EST Paul, If I may be so bold :-) You might think of checking out the Lexicor areas! You may find that there are new and supported prouducts built on the ashes of the Antic beginnins. Also there is a Graphics arts class taught here on tuesdays, (every other tuesday, the next week is an informal gathering, so you could drop by and ask some questions.) I hope to see you there John ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 19 Sun Mar 29, 1992 P.VARN [Paul Varn] at 21:55 EST I searced for the CEDIT3D2 utility and was unable to find it. I also tried to use the number 20173. Must not be released yet. I looked at 1.0 of the re- color program and am interested in 2.0. I really like the Render 512 program. The menu for locating an object center on it bombs on my TOS 1.4, 4 meg machine with Adspeed. Even at 16 MHz the PHONG drawings take a long time. So far, I'm having a lot of fun. -Pv- ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 20 Sun Mar 29, 1992 P.VARN [Paul Varn] at 22:25 EST Thanks John. What products should I be interested there. Is there a file format compatability between ST 3D programs? Is Cyber Sculpt the program to replace Cyber Studio? -Pv- ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 21 Mon Mar 30, 1992 P.VARN [Paul Varn] at 00:06 EST John, You're quite a talented programmer. I see your name and work all over the GEnie St world. I am wondering if CYBTRCE will work in Cyber Studio to create objects. It looks to me that most people are using 3D programs to create the objects. After that it, I get the impression that they turn to the clever utilities you and others have made to enhance, animate, render, etc. the things they've made. Am I speculating in the right direction? I've not seen anything in utilities that provide any reliable way of printing 3D on the ST. Wondering if CyberSculpt handles this properly. If I understand right, can Cyber Studio Hardcopy utility be made to work if you create more than one image in a sequential file? The same person that posted that said you also need to make sure that Draft was used in Superview. You can't make sequential files in Final mode in Cyber Studio anyway. Again, I love what your render program does. I will support your wonderfull shareware by sending you $. -Pv- ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 22 Mon Mar 30, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 03:57 EST Paul, I deleted CEDIT3D2 from the libraries due to a mouse bug on TT's I still haven't figured out yet. For a color ST user not much is different from V1.0. Glad you liked Render 512. The version of Render 512 in the libraries has a few bugs, though the object center bug is easily fixed by placing Gribnif's Form-Do-It in your auto folder. Its in the libraries though I don't remember the name or number. Try searching under Gribnif, Form-do-it, or dialog. An upgrade version this and other bugs and has several new features has been sent to registered users. John Stanford ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 23 Mon Mar 30, 1992 P.VARN [Paul Varn] at 21:22 EST John, I'm having more trouble with Render 512 than I first thought. All the picture rendering is great (although I've never followed through with shadows. It took my machine 10 minutes just to abort after a four hour wait) but most the menus that access the list of objects for editing bomb to the desktop. The one that doesn't bomb is the OBJECT menu. Everything seems to be fine there. When I access the OBJECT CENTER menu within LIGHTING, it bombs. All the MOTION menus do the same thing. I can't access anything there. Again, I have a 4 meg 520STfm with 1.04 rainbow TOS, and Adspeed 16 MHz accelerator. I tried all these things in 8 MHz, no TSRs, and no accessories. I got the exact same results. I run a multitude of software on my machine including hard disk sound sampling and editing. I have no trouble with any programs known to be hardware related. This might be unrelated, but I noticed that some of the number entry fields seem to have some "invisible" fields nearby. If I use the cursor or TAB key to move between two entry fields, the cursor will land on a position between two that are next to each other on the screen. These test were made with demonstration pictures off Antic disks. I tried multiple and single object 3D2 pictures. I'm hoping you can find this problem. Even if you can't get the animation stuff going, I really need the object centering utility in order to properly set lighting while I learn where things are in 3D. Thanks for your time. -Pv- ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 24 Mon Mar 30, 1992 P.VARN [Paul Varn] at 21:39 EST I saw your reply to my post after my next Aladdin pass. If you've fixed the menu bugs, I'll wait to get the fixes with my registration. Thanks for your reply. -Pv- ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 25 Mon Mar 30, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 21:56 EST Paul, CyberTrace won't work with CAD-3D (Cyber Studio), only with Cyber Sculpt. It creates an extrude template similar to the ones in CAD- 3D, but uses some special features of Cyber Sculpt like holes in the templates. Cyber Sculpt is FAR superior to CAD-3D for creating objects, though it doesn't have any rendering controls. It was originally published by ANTIC, but is now available from LEXICOR. It is an excellent product and definitely worth the price. A personal opinion only: I would put CAD-3D on the shelf, use Cyber Sculpt for creating objects and Chronos, Render 512 or Rez-Render for rendering images. I don't know about the hard copy utility. If your printer will handle it you could just do a screen-dump from the superview using alt-help. I seem to recall that Antic had a Cyber-Print package at one time, though I don't know anything about it. Hope this helps some. John ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 26 Mon Mar 30, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 22:31 EST Paul, Any time Render 512 V2.0 tries to access the object selection list it will crash on a clean ST. I made a mistake in the object selector code which makes the GEM dialog handler choke. But... I had Form-Do-It installed in my auto folder (a replacement dialog handler) and this hid the bug from me until release. This is fixed in later versions, but as I mentioned you can download Form-Do- It from Genie and it will solve the problem with the version you have. The stray editing fields you mentioned and the slow abort from shadow pre- processing are also fixed in the later versions. V2.0 has some other problems with texture mapping cylinders also. I suspect I know the reason shadows are taking so long for you. Are you creating a 'ground' surface using a single box or slab object and wanting everything to shadow onto it? For shadows to work well there should be no large single object faces which a large number of other faces cast shadows onto. Try some simple experiments with shadows. Create a Sphere, a torus and a box (make the box small) in CAD 3D. Using just these three objects arrange them and a SINGLE lightsource so the objects cast shadows on each other and observe the effects. Sorry about the problems, John ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 27 Tue Mar 31, 1992 R.GILLIES at 01:28 EST How do copyright laws apply if I wanted to sell CAD object models based on a copyrighted show? ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 28 Tue Mar 31, 1992 M.POCHE [Mick] at 01:39 EST Paul, As a registered R512 user, I can assure you that John has made some _major_ improvements and bug fixes in the program since version 1.0, and he's got some new goodies in the works. I've been using R512 for quite some time, and am always finding new, cool things to do with it, and the support can't be beat. John - Cyber Print is for printing Spectrum pics on a Okimate 20 color printer. Don't really understand why they included it in the Cyber family, but I've seen the results, and they look quite impressive. - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 29 Tue Mar 31, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 23:22 EST The copyright laws apply as they would anywhere else. You cannot do it without permission of the copyright holder. The 3D object is a likeness of the copyrighted material, and is no different from manufacturing say a model to sell. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 30 Wed Apr 01, 1992 P.VARN [Paul Varn] at 02:04 EST Thanks John for your helpfulness. Again, I'm anxious to get your registered version. I might have to wait on CyberSculpt (depending on what it costs) for a short while, but I'm convinced I need that, Cyber Pal, and RENDER so I can do some 16 color animations. You're right about my slow shadow problems. Had a big base object everything was shadowed against but had only one light source. Would I get the same problem with shadows against a backround picture? I suspect so. Screen dumps should work fine. I'll try that. -Pv- ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 31 Wed Apr 01, 1992 R.GILLIES at 02:49 EST Thanks John. So what do you think of my chances of getting permission from Paramount for the Enterprise "D" model? Slim to none? To give you an idea of the complexity of my rendering, it takes over 150K for the warp pods and wing alone. It's a VERY accurate rendering. The saucer separates and when I'm done, it will probably be over 250K in file size. By the way, REZ-RENDER chokes (it bombs) on the pods alone. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 32 Wed Apr 01, 1992 R.MONFORT1 [LEXICOR] at 09:05 EST Paul. You can purcharge CyberSculpt from Lexicor Software at a very low price phone #1-415-453-0271 -------- R.Gillies of Outline Art fame? Will your Enterprice D be shareware or are you going to include it in a 3D2 clipart disk. Lee Seiler is looking for persons that what to create 3D@ clipart disks if you want call the same phone number. Ringo. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 33 Wed Apr 01, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 22:06 EST Paul, I believe Cybersculpt is $30 or $35 from Lexicor and is definitely a bargain. (It used to be over $60 from Antic.) I haven't tested Cyber Pal with R512 so I don't know if that will work or not. Cyber Control had enough little quirks I had to work around I'm not sure how compatible other control accessorys will be. I'll try to test it this weekend. Render 512 uses a ray-tracing approach to shadows, where at each pixel a ray is cast toward each lightsource and tested to see if it intersects the faces of any objects (thus causing a shadow). This is a VERY slow process. R512 accelerates it by examining the scene and creating a list for each face of the other faces which could possibly cast a shadow on it. It then only tests these faces against the lightsource. But if you have an object with a large single face all the other faces of other objects will fall on it and you are back to testing every face in the scene. This could be thousands of faces at every pixel. Plus since its a large face it probably covers LOTS of pixels. To work around this when casting shadows on a ground plane or background create the background as a grid of faces. Unfortunately this kind of object can't be created with CAD-3D. There is a 3D2 chess set in the Genie Libraries, the chess board works well for this. This breaks the object up into a number of smaller faces, each with a much smaller number of faces shadowing it. R.Gillies: Some companies take little notice of such projects, while others protect their copyrights vigorously. I suspect that attempting to obtain permission from Paramount would end up costing more money than you could ever hope to realize from sales. It does sound like a very nice object and I hope we will get to see it. John ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 34 Thu Apr 02, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 01:15 EST R.Gillies, What is the relation between your `D' model and mine? Looking forward to seeing yours. =-=-=-=-= Cyber _Pal_? What is that? ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 35 Thu Apr 02, 1992 R.GILLIES at 02:48 EST Thanks for that very helpfull info Ringo. Glad to see someone with your knowledge of CAD/animation active at SBACE. Wish I were able to attend. The plane fare would be a bit exorbitant. ;-) Well, my "D" model started life a about a couple of years ago. After about a year of laying around, I've decided to "revive" what was a project hundreds of hours in the making. I have all the major vessel part complete or near completion (eg; the saucer, battle bridge, dorsal hull, enginering hull and wings.) I used calipers, moulding contour gages, a digitizer to make a pretty accurate "virtual replica" of the "D" model (Next Generation). Some of the cross sections are 1/8th of an inch apart. Some of the curves I had to digitize are pretty complex curves (the dorsal, enginering hull). I suspect the final project to be more that 300K in file size. The saucer section separates and is, as it turns out, a very deliberate ellipse shape. I calculated the foci and "turned" the compound curves instead of simply elongating a disc. A lot of the "running lights" are separate objects so that one can program the color. I've decide to make separate phaser banks, both above and below so you can program a sweeping phaser spread (color cycling from dull to cherry red is what I had in mind). My goal is to enable someone with a TT and produce a world beater of an animation. Believe me, you'll need a TT. At present, my old faithfull ST is slow as molasses. That, and my recently toasted hard drive have slowed down the design process--Thank heavens for Revolver! Sometime this week, I'll upload some screen shots to tease you all a bit. ;- ) ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 36 Thu Apr 02, 1992 R.MONFORT1 [LEXICOR] at 15:26 EST Robert. I would gladly animate your Enterprice "D" using my TT and later I will give a try in 24bit mode with the Leonardo card. I will send you GE-mail very soon. Ringo. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 37 Thu Apr 02, 1992 R.GILLIES at 23:06 EST I'd be interested, Ringo. I uploaded a Calamus file in the CAD/animation d/l library of some snapshots. Check it out and let my know what you think. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 38 Fri Apr 03, 1992 R.MONFORT1 [LEXICOR] at 15:09 EST B.Gillies. I downloaded the CDK file today and your Enterprice "D" is excellent! I hope you get to finish it. It is going to make a create animation. Ringo. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 39 Fri Apr 03, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 18:24 EST Paul, I tested Cyber Pal with Render 512 yesterday and it doesn't work! The views don't get recorded, and then Cyber Pal says the disk is out of memory. I'll have to run the monitor to see what information is being passed back and forth. The morph function doesn't work either and causes a crash, though this doesn't really surprise me. Render 512's object format is somewhat incompatible with CAD3D so uploading objects to an accessory often doesn't work. Of course CAD- 3D can still be used for this portion and then load the objects into R512. I'll see what I can do to get Cyber Pal to work. John ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 40 Sat Apr 04, 1992 P.VARN [Paul Varn] at 04:03 EST John, You mentioned creating a base with many faces to speed up the shadowing. That's really what I was using- a grid. I didn't count the "faces", but I think it was something like 10 by 10. Does that match the criteria? hanks for the rough price on cyber sculpt. I have a couple of programs to add to my new addiction. I had some trouble with Cyber Pal. The program seemed to perform properly, but I couldn't get a reference for my movements. It's all obsure co-ordinates with no visual aid. I didn't think Cyber Pal would work with R512 because its 3D2 only? Don't worry about Cyber Pal not working on R512 on my account (is it really possible?) I only intended to use it within CAD3D. The other "Pal" thing that'll create a form or template for CAD3D out of a Degas picture. I'm real interested in that. Cyber Control would not work with the version of Cyber Paint I have. Don't know if it works with Cyber Sculpt. I'm not very interested in using it. I'd like to find an alternative. Robert, Your Enterprise sounds very impressive. -Pv- ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 41 Sat Apr 04, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 11:30 EST Paul, Your grid sounds like what I was talking about for shadows. Just keep in mind how the shadow process works and watch the pre-processing phase to see if you'll have any 'problem' areas where alot of faces will overlap one. 10 or 20 faces overlapping is not a problem, but we want to avoid hundreds or thousands! Cyber Pal is an interesting program. Its an accessory to generate animations in CAD-3D. It is rather limited, but it lets one pan the camera across the screen, and make any objects or cameras move and rotate in paths across the scene. Cyber Pal also has a function to supposedly create intermediate morph objects between any two objects. I have difficulty understanding how one could consider the intermediate objects a smooth transition, but it does create some really neat mangled objects! Also, the user interface is extremely aukward! Cyber Pal should work with R512 V2.09 after a little tinkering. R512 now accepts all the CAD-3D commands through the accessory pipeline. R512 is significantly different from CAD-3D so not everything works, but I've been able to use every Cyber Control script I have with only changing a couple lines on one of the scripts. Cyber Control does not work with Cyber Paint or Cyber Sculpt. It is an animation scripting language that drives CAD-3D as an accessory. R512 has been modified to be able to take the place of CAD-3D. Creating animations with Cyber Control is FAR from easy!!! Yet it does give alot of power to the diligent and ambitious. The only real animation alternative is Chronos from Lexicor Software. Chronos is a key-frame animator, in which you move the object on the screen to their positions during certain "key" points in your animation. Chronos then fills in the objects position on the intermediate frames. Chronos is very intuitive, flexible, and easy to use. It also appears rather expensive though if one considers what is involved in such a program and what is available on other systems it is underpriced. The "Cyber Sculpt Extrude Template Auto-Tracer" is not a "Pal" product. It is a freeware program to create Cyber Sculpt templates from Degas pics. It will only work with Cyber Sculpt. It can be found by searching the libraries with my name as uploader. John ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 42 Sat Apr 04, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 12:46 EST Paul, It just occured to me why your grid didn't help much with the shadows. Render 512 re-optimized your grid into only a few faces. For it to work properly save the grid seprately in a 3D2 file. Load your scene into R512 as usual, and then set ADD FACES to off from the file menu. Then merge in the 3D2 grid file. This will retain all the faces in the grid. John ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 43 Mon Apr 06, 1992 P.VARN [Paul Varn] at 22:08 EDT Thanks John for your hints and comments. I'll have to remember that "ADD FACES" can REMOVE faces. -Pv- ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 44 Sat Nov 07, 1992 J.VENGROUSK1 at 01:56 EST I'd say with a reasonable certainty that anyone's attempt to get $$$ for any representation of the enterprise ( or anything that is copyright-held by a big business entity... or heck, a personal one) would be INSTANTLY afoul of the law. Paramount owns EVERYTHING associated with the show... designs, objects , names, plotlines, whatever and wuould not take kindly to any atempt to cash in on it no matter how many yuears you spent in front of the little screen perfecting your version of it. you can either erlease it PD or sit on it and feel proud-but-alone at the job you did. i wouldn't DREAM of suggesting you sell it to any takers and hope nobody at Paramount ever notices.... ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 45 Mon Nov 16, 1992 R.COBBLE1 [ROD] at 21:58 EST Did anyone see how cheap the Cyber stuff is selling for at E. Arthur Brown Co.? Is this stuff for real? Will the Cyber stuff run on the FALCON? Rod ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 46 Tue Nov 17, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John@Lexicor] at 14:17 EST I've never heard of any bad dealings with EA Brown. They've usually been on the up and up. Cyber Sculpt works fine on the Falcon in the ST medium and ST hi compatability modes. Cyber Paint does not, though the Falcon is not alone in that regard. I believe Missionware (?) is working on a new version of CyberPaint for the TT and maybe Falcon. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 47 Tue Nov 17, 1992 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 21:17 EST Yes, Missionware Software is working with Jim Kent, and his partner Ian Lepore, on upgrading Cyber Paint for the Falcon, TT and all other current Atari computers. AAMOF, the new version is being developed on a Falcon and it is working. We'll have more information when we get closer to releasing the program. John Trautschold Missionware Software ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 48 Wed Nov 18, 1992 M.POCHE [Mick] at 03:14 EST The upgrading of Cyber Paint is some of the best news I've heard lately. It's one of the few programs that won't run on my MSTE that I really miss. I have Prism Paint, but for animations, it just doesn't cut it. - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 49 Wed Nov 18, 1992 C.GEEROMS at 22:07 EST Yes, one of my all time favorite ST graphics program...ADO ADO! Claude ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 50 Sun Nov 22, 1992 R.COBBLE1 [ROD] at 19:08 EST ALL I want to create some text in CAD3D and do not want to extrude my own stuff. (To much work) Does anyone have an alphabet in CAD3D or is there a conversion program for Pagestream Fonts, or Type 1's or Calamus Fonts, GDOS, Bitmaps, IMG's etc...... any info will be helpful!!!!!! Thanks. Rod ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 51 Sun Nov 22, 1992 J.STANFORD2 [John@Lexicor] at 22:05 EST Antic had some 3D font disks available, you might still be able to turn up one of them somewhere. If you have Cyber Sculpt there is a utility in the libraries to create templates from Calamus fonts. File #22091 CALCYBER.LZH I believe the version to create CAD3D 2.0 templates is still up also. Search the library on uploader name SGUBER. I don't believe they will work with CAD3D 1.0 if thats what you have though. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 52 Sun Nov 22, 1992 LEXICOR2 [Ringo] at 22:47 EST Also over at the Lexicor category 25 you will find more info. regarding Cyber- Sculpt and 3D2 files. With the NEW Phoenix 512 created by John St. for Lexicor you can render the 3D2 fonts with textures and image mapping, resolutions for the ST and Spectrum format plus TT and Falcon modes. Ringo ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 53 Tue Nov 24, 1992 SGUBER at 20:11 EST Rod: There is a shareware program that will take any Calamus font and then extrude letters from it. Look under my name, and my program will pop out. I have 500+ calamus fonts if you are interested. Sol ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 54 Wed Dec 09, 1992 D.ALVEAR1 [Dom Alvear] at 03:02 EST Howdy! I am trying to figure out what the difference between CyberPaint 2.0 and CP 2.1 is. I currently own version 2.0 and would like to know what I would gain in getting CP 2.1. I would also like to know if anybody has picked up this software for further development and/or distribution. Thanks in advance, Dom ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 55 Wed Dec 09, 1992 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 20:40 EST Dom... I'm not sure what the differences are between CyberPaint 2.0 and 2.1. I'm not even sure if 2.1 is available anymore. As far as future developments in the CyberPaint area, stay tuned to a GEnie node near you! Missionware Software is working with Jim Kent and company on a CyberPaint upgrade. There's really not much to say yet, except that our plans are to get it to work on all current Atari computers (including the Falcon). We recently showed an alpha version of the new CyberPaint at WAACE in October. John Trautschold Missionware Software Member of the IAAD ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 56 Thu Dec 10, 1992 ATARIAUSTRIA [J.Widi] at 07:14 EST Dom, as far as I know there never has been a version 2.1 of Cyber Paint. Where did You hear about it? Rumour has it that Jim Kent, the original programmer of CP, is so impressed with the features of the Falcon030 that he will revamp CP to bring it up to date. Remember, I said RUMOUR ;-) -Johannes ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 57 Fri Dec 11, 1992 SAM-RAPP [<>] at 23:14 EST I am new to this cyber stuff, but would like to get into Atari animation. What software should I get. I thought I would start out with Cyber studio, but I hear a lot about Cyber Sculpt.... What is what and what do they do? What resolutions does what work in? Any help would be appreciated. ------------> Sam ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 58 Fri Dec 11, 1992 M.POCHE [Mick] at 23:47 EST Sam - I'll try and get you filled in on "what does what" as far as Atari animation software goes, though I'm sure others can elaborate. Cyber Studio - Actually consists of CAD 3D and Cyber Control. CAD 3D is a 3D modeler and basic renderer. 16 colors (ST low res) with no dithering or anything fancy, and model creation is somewhat limited. Cyber Control is an accessory for animating the 3D objects in CAD 3D. It hooks into CAD and allows you to animate the objects through a script, similar to programming. Very flexable, but very involved. From the now-defunct Antic Software. Cyber Sculpt is a very good 3D modeler with many features not found in CAD 3D. Allows the creation of very complex objects. Still the modeler of choice for the Atari's. Lexicor's Phase-4 package is the newest, most powerful animation software for the Atari. Chronos is their key-frame animator, which allows you to set up your animations with the mouse. You set up the key-frames (the ones that define where motion will begin, change, end, etc.) and Chronos fills in the rest with "tween" frames. Much easier and faster than Cyber Studio! Lexicor also has Prism Paint, a paint program that allows you to do 2D animation, or touch up your 3D animation files. I could probably go on and on until I begin sounding like a Lexicor commercial, but my best advice would be to check out the Lexicor area here in the RT. CAT 25. They can fill you in on all of their software. - Mick ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 59 Sat Dec 12, 1992 AEO.3 [Lyre] at 15:22 EST Sam, If you have the option, you definitely want Cyber Sculpt before CAD-3D / Cyber Studio. The later package is, at this point, somewhat out of date due to improvements in the Atari computers and from a software standpoint (i.e., it does not contain any recent programming language improvements). You may obtain Cyber Sculpt from Lexicor - I believe that they offer it in the Phase-4 package that Mick mentioned. I do no, as of yet, have any of the Lexicor products. However, from my investigations they do seem to be more powerful then original ANTIC Software products. Lyre ATARI EXPLORER ONLINE ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 60 Sat Jan 16, 1993 L.CROSS2 [Larry] at 20:56 EST COMMENT TO JOHN TRAUTSCHOLD: (In reference to message: Cat 7, Topic 25, Message 55, Wed 12/09/92) Dear John, In your message to "Dom..." you mentioned that Mission Software and Jim Kent and company are working on a CyberPaint upgrade. Wonderful! *** If you know how to get in touch with any of them, *** PLEASE PASS ALONG MY FOLLOWING COMMENTS. What I want to know is; HOW CAN I HAVE MY GFA BASIC PROGRAM(ming language) callup and execute my CyberPaint animations? If anyone does anything to Cyberpaint, the first (of 2 things) that ought to be done is to be able to use the CyberPaint output from or within GFA BASIC. The second (of the 2 improvements I'm looking for) is BUILT-IN SOUND FUNCTIONS. Animation without sound is incomplete! Hopefully, the 'sound functions' will be INCLUDED with the program. PS: I'm new to Genie, therefore I don't know if this subject has been raised before now. Maybe I ought to start a new topic here??? === Larry E. Cross (L.CROSS2) === ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 61 Sun Jan 17, 1993 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 22:11 EST Larry... I got your message... :-) Regarding your first question about using GFA Basic to execute a CyberPaint animation, well, I really don't know. I have no idea if it can be done or not and am not aware of anyone that has tried to do it with GFA. Perhaps someone with experience in this area has a better answer. Regarding the upgrade, yes, CyberPaint is being upgraded as we speak. It'll probably be going to the beta testers fairly soon (and, BTW, if anyone reading this has extensive experience with CyberPaint and now uses a TT or MegaSTE and would be interested in beta testing, please contact me in email). The first upgrade will be more of a maintenance upgrade than anything. The alphas we now have run on all current production Atari computers. This is a major step - believe me! The next upgrade will be for support of resolutions other than 320x200x16. We're looking especially at the Falcon true color mode. The addition of sound output capabilities is not likely in the near future. Remember, this program is called CyberPaint - it's meant to be a paint and animation program. However, that doesn't mean we won't add sound capabilities at some future date. A lot depends on the Atari market and the support we get for our first upgrade. I understand the need for "sound with animation", but I'm not sure that that capability should be added to CyberPaint itself. It would make for a cumbersome interface (integrating sound and visuals at the same time), at least in its current incarnation. John Trautschold Missionware Software ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 62 Mon Jan 18, 1993 MIKE.KELLER [ST Aladdin] at 01:18 EDT There was a program published in STart called AVS player or something, that allowed you to add sound to animations. mike.k ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 63 Tue Jan 19, 1993 L.CROSS2 [Larry] at 04:08 EST Thank you, John for your speedy reply; (REF: GFA BASIC & CYBER-ANIMATIONS). Well, let me ask you the SAME QUESTION ANOTHER WAY, since I believe that this subject is important. WOULDN'T IT BE WONDERFUL IF (THE NEW) CYBERPAINT INCLUDED A MENU OPTION THAT ALLOWED ITS CURRENT SEQUENCE TO BE SAVED TO DISK AS CODE WHICH COULD BE CALLED BY OR USED IN A GFA BASIC PROGRAM? I can't do it. But, I'll bet there's 1 programmer somewhere who can. --------- ----- ===================================================== Thank you for taking the time to respond. Larry E. Cross (L.CROSS2) ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 64 Tue Jan 19, 1993 D.ALVEAR1 [Dom Alvear] at 19:48 EST Larry Cross writes: > What I want to know is; HOW CAN I HAVE MY GFA BASIC PROGRAM(ming language) > callup and execute my CyberPaint animations? What you would need to do is set up a buffer to read in the animation file. Then you could read it out of memory and put it up on the screen. I haven't programmed in GFA in a while, but I am sure this is possible. > [stuff about sound deleted] See the other replies and the possibility of using AVS. Mike Keller writes: > There was a program published in STart called AVS player or > something, that allowed you to add sound to animations. And I _think_ it was written by Jim Kent! Maybe he'll include/upgrade it for the new CyberPaint? To John T: Does Jim Kent have a GEnie account? If so, does here come on often? Dom ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 65 Tue Jan 19, 1993 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 20:06 EST Larry... Although I don't have the file format for a .seq handy, I know that other folks have cracked the format (there's really nothing too special about it) and have managed to incorporate sequences into other projects. Most notably, I was told that someone wrote a program for DOS machines (I know, that's an ungly word here ) to incorporate sequences into some other DOS-based graphics and animation program. So, it can be done. Really, there's nothing special that would have to be done to save a file for GFA Basic (or any other programming language for that matter). What you would need to do with GFA is to load the .seq file into your program and process the data as appropriate. If anything happens, perhaps what we can do is supply the data format for the seq file. However, that format has changed in past versions of the program, and may change again for the inclusion of new features. Nothing stays constant in this area! :-) John T. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 66 Tue Jan 19, 1993 J.TRAUTSCHOL [jtrautschold] at 20:17 EST Dom... No, Jim Kent does not have a Genie account, at least not as far as I know. Jim regularly visits another online service (BIX) though, which is where most of my communication with him is. Yes, AVS was written by Jim, and we've already discussed the possibility of upgrading it to work on the new computers much as CyberPaint now will. We have set no time frame to do this, however, since the programming of AVS is sufficiently different from CyberPaint, and we're putting all of our efforts into CyberPaint at the moment. BTW, Jim is not doing the rewrite of CyberPaint. Jim is actively involved in the remake of the program and subsequent marketing, but an associate of his, Ian Lepore, (GEMFAST and HSC fame) is doing the actual work. John T. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 67 Tue Jan 19, 1993 J.STANFORD2 [John@Lexicor] at 22:49 EST The SEQ format is fully documented in the Cyber Paint manual published by Antic, so therefore any owner of CyberPaint should have access to this. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 68 Fri Jan 22, 1993 L.CROSS2 [Larry] at 01:18 EST TO: J.STANFORD2 Although I DID PURCHASE Cyber Paint and DO HAVE the manual, it's been a long time since I've picked it up. I got to be rather proficient with Cyber Paint, therefore not using the manual as much as in the beginning. [AND ALSO TO: D.ALVEAR1, (DOM)] I probably need to emphasize the point that I am a NOVICE programmer! From what I recall, (from the manual pertaining to programming), the skill-level required to complete such programming is beyond me. THAT IS PRECISELY WHY I am asking here if anyone CAN do this (for me) and others. [AND TO JOHN T.] Thanks for your reply, but, I'll probably just have to wait and see if it shows up (in the future). I'm not that good with GFA. Larry Cross (L.CROSS2) ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 69 Thu Feb 25, 1993 SAM-RAPP [<>] at 01:59 EST MU HA HA HA HA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just got cyberstudio 2.02 and some StereoTek glasses..... Real Cheap! MU HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ---------------------> Sam ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 70 Sat Feb 27, 1993 L.CROSS2 [Larry] at 01:09 EST All that happy laughter (first thing this morning) just made my day! thanks. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 71 Sun Jul 18, 1993 N.FRAGA at 19:10 EDT Anyone, I 'I'm looking for a file that Antic released in one of the STart magazines. I think it was August of 89 or 90, not sure, anyway I would like to obtain the "Splines on Splines" disk file, with the various examples on how to use "motion control" (e.g. slow in and slow out) I have the article, but would like to see how they are programmed. I would also like alot of the Antic CYBER files, those that I can use as examples. I understand that most of the "action" was done on CompuServe, but I don't have an account there. I would really like as much as I can get regarding the "CYBER" series from Antic (I know they no longer exist either), but I'm looking for ARCed or LZHed files, and probably on line conferences that I can get my hands on. I'd appreciate any help antyone can give. Thanks. Norm. ------------ Category 7, Topic 25 Message 72 Tue Jul 20, 1993 ATARIAUSTRIA [J.Widi] at 08:34 EDT Norm, I am not sure if it would be legally possible to upload these files, as the contents of the STart disks were not in the public domain. This is complicated by the fact that You just can't ask Antic for permission anymore :-( -Johannes ------------