========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 20 Sat Feb 06, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 13:16 EST Sub: ATARI Works ATARI Works will be released with the FALCON 030. This integrated word processor, database, spreadsheet application is ST/STE/TT and FALCON compatible. 211 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 1 Mon Dec 20, 1993 E.SLICK at 19:48 EST I have just purchased ATARI Works. I have a TT with 2megs ST & 4 megs TT ram and I have an Epson Action Laser II printer. It emulates the HP 2P. I am using Speedo GDOS to print. I immediately ran into a problem I hope someone here can help me with. It seems that when I print that the first page is solid black while the rest are ok but seem to be shifted down by almost a 1/2 inch on the page (or missing the top line). I have tried every configuration with and without accessories and AUTO folder programs. It seems to be the printer driver. I have called ATARI and they suggested I look in the libraries here and ask for help here. The libraries contain no new printer drivers. I was hoping someone here could help me out. Eric ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 2 Tue Dec 21, 1993 CBARRON at 01:05 EST Eric... Until the HD with works on it went sour, I printed a few items with the HPlaser printer driver, on my pana. 4450i. No Problems or strange results. Hd does not register on my TT upon cold boot. It sometimes does, strange... AW & Hp2 compats. is fine, as far as my testing went. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 3 Tue Dec 21, 1993 PRADIP [Pradip@Works] at 14:29 EST Eric I have not been able to find any concrete answer to your problem as yet. If any one else here had similar problems, and/or what you did about it, please let us know. Pradip ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 4 Tue Dec 21, 1993 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 18:12 EST Well, I found a Driver for my Panasonic KX-P1123. I used (with speed GDOS) the NEC_P Series driver. I Choose "FINAL" in the print mode. Voila ! It made two passes , so I assume it's 360X360 DPI. Hope it works for other Panasonic users.... Mike a ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 5 Tue Dec 21, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 19:07 EST OK, I got a new Canon Bubble Jet 200 printer. I spent an hour setting up Word Up and then figure Works would be easy since the new SPEEDO GDOS makes it simple to add print drivers. I changed the ASSIGN.SYS so that line 21 reads: 21 BJ10.SYS Next, I moved the BJ-10 driver into my Driver folder. Finally, I ran the Driver accessory and that it was. No problem. Let's rock and roll I thought. Well, AW printer out a bunch of lines with just "CB@". Yes, I have it in Epson emulation mode and obviously a driver problem but what? I even tried it in BJ-10 mode and of course got a nice few black lines before I cancelled the operation. Help! ~~Brian..Written on Tuesday 21 December 1993 at 07:57 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 6 Tue Dec 21, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 19:20 EST Brian, your problem is that you have the BJ in the Epson mode! I'm not familiar with the BJ-200, but it should either have a BJ native mode and/or an IBM Proprinter X24 mode. If you have the native mode, use that otherwise use the X24 mode. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 5:17 PM Mountain Time Tuesday, December 21, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 7 Tue Dec 21, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 19:50 EST DOn't work either way Mike. In native mode I get a black piece of paper. I just retried with the same results. ~~Brian..Written on Tuesday 21 December 1993 at 08:46 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 8 Tue Dec 21, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 20:35 EST Brian, It sounds like you have AtariWorks Ver. 1.207. That's the one that has been giving the gang fits lately with the "BLACK PAGE SYNDROME!" Drop an EMail to PRADIP@WORKS let him no the particulars of your system and the version numbers of BOTH your copy of AtariWorks and Speedo. (The European market has version 4.2 of Speedo which has not appeared in the USA - or so goes the rumor mill). 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 9 Tue Dec 21, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 21:08 EST I was afraid of that Papa. I have read about the black page syndrome here and was hoping it was something else. Any one with this problem received any success with a different driver? Anyone else out there using the Canon BJ-200? ~~Brian..Written on Tuesday 21 December 1993 at 09:49 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 10 Tue Dec 21, 1993 B.SALDANA1 [BOB S] at 22:38 EST Brian- You may have to load Speedo again this time don't do anything as far as adding Bj to line 21 just go to the printer acc and choose Bj 10 or 130 make sure your dip switches are set right and it should work. Once in a while I get carried away and start change the caches and everthing else and messup everything. I reload Speedo automatically and the defaults are pretty good. 150,000 for everything but I loaded Kadinnsky and somehow it now shows 149,500 for everything but it still works good. Has anybody printed out the Gem files with `Kadinsky? The 747 and shuttle are fantastic out of my Bj 20 on legacy pen plotter paper. Any other drawing programs print that good on a Medium Color resolution? Bob S ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 11 Tue Dec 21, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 23:34 EST Papa, Do you know if the "Black Page Syndrome" is Bubble Jet Unique, or has it been seen with other printers? Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 9:30 PM Mountain Time Tuesday, December 21, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 12 Wed Dec 22, 1993 S.BLACKBURN [STEVE] at 02:28 EST PAPA What is KADINSKY ? STEVE ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 13 Wed Dec 22, 1993 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 04:35 EST I have AW 1.207. When printing, I hit CONTROL C to stop printing, and NOTHING happens ! I realize it may take time to stop, but the whole page keeps printing . Is this a bug in AW ? ( Gee, and I thought that Pagestream was slow in aborting :) ). Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 14 Wed Dec 22, 1993 PRADIP [Pradip@Works] at 13:45 EST Everyone I am still investigating the problem of Black page on bubble jet printers. I will post it as soon as I find something. Mike Are you using Atari SLM804 printer. Since this printer is a DMA device it works in a different way than the other printers, which connect to the printer port. So, in case of SLM printer it always takes longer to abort the printing. Pradip ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 15 Wed Dec 22, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 14:55 EST Mike, The infamous "Black Page Syndrome" has been reported by users of dot matrix (impact) printers, inkjet printers and also by one poor soul who went through a cartidge of laser toner trying to figure it out. The common thread at this point in time is that _all_ of the people who have experienced it were using AtariWorks Version 1.207. The problem does not seem to occur with AtariWorks 1.2. No one has yet reported which version of SpeedoGDOS they were using in conjunction with it. The version I have is 4.1 but I understand there is a new version 4.2 on the market in Europe which is supposed to correct the "GDOS error - insufficient memory for scratch buffer - do not use special effects" that crops up occasionally in MyDraw if the cache size is too small or in Kandinsky almost all the time. Pradip does monitor the activity of this roundtable and I believe it would be very helpful to him if everyone reporting this syndrome would specify system particulars (i.e. model & TOS, monitor, RAM and printer) in addition to AtariWorks Version # and SpeedoGDOS ver. #. To eliminate the confusion of differing setups (auto prgs and ACC's) reports should be based on "stripped" systems. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 16 Wed Dec 22, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 14:56 EST Steve, KADINSKY or KANDINSKY is a GEM graphic editor uploaded recently by Keith Brooks (New Horizons). It is a German program with English menus and dialog boxes that is fully functional in the unregistered version in the library. Registration will get you some additional features such as zoom mode and some other niceties. The program has better control of beziers and arcs than MyDraw. It also allows you to set write mode (replace, transparent, XOR) and specify grayscale percentage for fills. The interface is not as intuitive as MyDraw but still reasonable easy to figure out. Overall it is a _powerful_ GEM graphic editting program capable of running on ST, STE, TT or Falcon including color support and SpeedoGDOS but it has one glaring fault. Speedo ver 4.1 generates an error message before permitting KANDINSKY to run. This error seems to get stored in the system and causes other Speedo programs NOT to work properly unless the computer is rebooted first. This problem, according to the program's author, was fixed by SpeedoGDOS ver 4.2 which is what he used when writing the program. I use KANDINSKY on occasion when I need one of the effects it can produce that are not available in MyDraw which remains my preferred GEM editor at this time. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 17 Wed Dec 22, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 14:56 EST Mike, Depending on how soon you hit [Control]-C you may get only a few lines, half a page or a whole page printed out. When AtariWorks is calculating the bitmap for the page it has a higher priority than reading the keyboard buffer. By the time it gets around to checking the buffer it may have already calculated a significant part of the page and dumped it to the printer. The amount that gets printed will probably be related to the amount of RAM in your computer and also the size of your printer's buffer. BTW, since you have AtariWorks version 1.207 how did you get around the dreaded "Black Page Syndrome"? I can't remember specifically but I believe you had the problem also and posted something about it. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 18 Wed Dec 22, 1993 C.COOK7 [Cliff] at 20:37 EST Brian: My BJ-200 works fine in Atari Works IN BJ MODE. I never turn the printer on until I am ready to print; maybe it's receiving garbage from something else in your set-up. Cliff ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 19 Wed Dec 22, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 20:46 EST Cliff, I bet you are using plain old 1.2. Right? ~~Brian..Written on Wednesday 22 December 1993 at 09:44 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 20 Wed Dec 22, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 21:38 EST Let's just say that with 128 k caches active I've less than 3 Meg of usable RAM on my MegaSTe with Speedo active. This is without a lot of CPXs and/or ACC's active too. I'm getting used to Calamus SL (and yes, I've had to use the virtual memory from the beginning... otherwise no print at all). It really is a lot more capable than the original Calamus, though yes... it is noticably slower on my system. RATS! I've been using the AtariWorks word processor for a while now.. for the most part I really like it, the print (on my SLM 804) is VERY fast and the quality of the fonts are outstanding, better than ANYTHING I've used before. I'm using version 1.207 also, but so far (knock on wood) no blank or black pages. Then again my drum got damaged during shipment so it's due to be replaced as soon as I can afford a new drum anyway (dimples in the drum). I'll keep you posted.... Looks like I'm going to have to look for and try this 'kadinsky' program... does it print 'out of the box' to an SLM with Speedo? I still can't get MyDraw to print out. Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 21 Thu Dec 23, 1993 R.BENNETT7 [Rodney] at 03:18 EST BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp], I have no problems from day one on setting up and printing on the BJ- 200 via Speedo GDOS and AtariWorks using the supplied BJ-10 Driver. Using this driver, you must leave it your printer in BJ-10 mode obviously. With WordUp using the IBMPRO24 driver instead of an Epson driver and leave your Printer in BJ-10 mode. It works as advertised. Also, I don't understand why you changed the ASSIGN.SYS file manually, the DRIVER.APP file does this for you. Rodney ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 22 Thu Dec 23, 1993 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 03:27 EST Papa.... No, i havent Reported the 'black page syndrome' , but it happened to me two days ago. I only let it blacken about 3 lines, then turned off the Panasonic 24 pin printer Kx 1123. all I know is that I was in ST med. color mode, I had hit "SELECT ALL" for the one page piece, then it happened. I tried another printer driver, and it still did it. I have Version 1.207. I have a 1040 STfm with 4 megs (Z-RAM), TOS 1.4. hope that helps. oh, Accs. were:UIS 3, Idle2.1,page assistant, control panel, word window , and GDOS printer drivers. Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 23 Thu Dec 23, 1993 R.BUSH [Richard Bush] at 05:01 EST E.SLICK I also have the Epson Action Laser II. I'm using it on a Falcon and have had no problems other than when I forgot to tell Speedo GDOS to use the HP 2P driver. Have you run your drivers program and selected the HP Laserjet driver? If so did you save it? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 24 Thu Dec 23, 1993 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 06:19 EST Brian: What BOB S said. Don't do anything to line 21. I have a Falcon30 and a BJ 200 and have had no problems. I also have used Works and BJ 200 on my 1040St and Mega Ste with no problems. KenO. :) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 25 Thu Dec 23, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 08:54 EST Rodney/ Ken O, What version of AW are you using? I bet 1.2 and not above this version. Why manually? Force of habit and for me it takes no longer than calling up driver since I use EdHak. However, you are right, there is no need to do it manually. But it doesn't hurt and it comes out the same way regardless. >With WordUp using the IBMPRO24 driver instead of an Epson driver That's the problem. There isn't a IBMPRO driver. I have asked over in the Word up topic but I think my only solution is epson mode for WU. Re: Black page. Has it happen to anyone who is NOT in medium resolution or a high res emulator? ~~Brian..Written on Thursday 23 December 1993 at 09:16 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 26 Thu Dec 23, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 09:17 EST Gregg, with a 4 meg machine you should not have too many troubles with Calamus SL unless you are doing 24-bit color. Please drop over to CAT 16 and we can continue the discussion there. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 28 Thu Dec 23, 1993 PRADIP [Pradip@Works] at 15:18 EST Papa and everybody else Re. : Black page syndrome From various posts on this topic and mails to me, I have come to notice that this problem occurs with various drivers running various printers in various modes and of course different AW versions. Till version AW1.2 this problem was not there. I have decided to make a list of different conditions under which this problem occurs. So, if anybody who is having this problem, please drop me a email with following details - System : computer model TOS Version : ... SpeedoGDOS Version : ... AW version : ... Printer Model : ... Printer Mode : ... Printer Driver : ... I will try some time to look into this problem as soon as I find some time. Thanks a lot for your kind support... A very very merry Xmas and happy new year to all of yoy. Pradip ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 29 Thu Dec 23, 1993 C.COOK7 [Cliff] at 21:08 EST Brian: You're right. I'm using plain old 1.2! Cliff ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 30 Thu Dec 23, 1993 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 22:01 EST E.SLICK - I am running AtariWorks out of a Falcon with the Epson Action Laser II in HP 2P emulation mode using the HP Laser printer driver and I have no problems. Never got a black page and have found the type to be centered well on my print outs. There is a default 1/2 inch top margin, but that should not be a problem as the page set up dialog will allow you to conform the program to your selected printer. Just in case there is some kind of problem with your driver I checked my DRIVERS folder and this is what I find: LASERJET.SYS 61907 bytes. I also have STFAX.SYS in the folder and use that driver for fax output. With the speedo fonts I get very got faxed documents. Check with "Papa" our resident AtariWorks Guru. (:{ Grouch. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 31 Fri Dec 24, 1993 C.ROMERO3 at 00:49 EST Hi: I have a 2 meg ste and use canon bj 200 printer. No major problems printing from AW except the pie charts come out wrong. The printer gives excellent beautiful text and graphics, but is slower than mollasses running uphill. Use fprint (here on genie) to slightly now bearably speed things up. Why do the pie charts come out scrunched? Carlos ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 32 Fri Dec 24, 1993 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 00:55 EST Brian, I'm using a BJ200, and aside from growing noticably older while waiting for it to print in AW with Speedos, I'm happy as a clam. With a coated stock that I picked up at Fry's Electronics, called deskjet white 24#, I get awesome results, and of course, Speedo font technology is great! I use the BJ10 driver with AW V1.02. on my TT's both at home and in the office. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 33 Fri Dec 24, 1993 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 01:21 EST Pradip, Happy Holidays to you, too. Since you mostly hear what DOESN'T work, on this topic, I'd like to tell you that AtariWorks has made an enormous,(POSITIVE) difference in my work for my job, and for my Business Administration classes as well. I shower you with thanks and admiration, and thanks too, to all of those who show up online with solutions to help those of us with problems, even when that problem is simple curiosity. Christmas Spirit on Genie! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 34 Fri Dec 24, 1993 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:29 EST Ho, ho, ho! Merry Christmas to all! In the search for the elusive ultimate GEM graphic editor I d'loaded the latest Kandinsky (ver 1.57) today and found the following: Per Uli's instructions including a GDOS bitmap font in the ASSIGN.SYS file eliminates the error message regarding insufficient memory for scratch buffer. In order for this to work the bitmap font must not only exist in screen, printer and metafile formats but also must reside in the same folder with your SpeedoGDOS drivers and fonts. In other words - it all has to be in one folder. Now there is no problem with the error message _but_ there are no effects available! No rotation of objects of any kind. No attributes for any of the fonts (Kandinsky doesn't even show the bitmap font in the list). Apparently all this does is turn off the blasted error message and nothing else! I guess we have to wait for SpeedoGDOS ver 4.2 in order to get any _real_ trial use of what appears to be an otherwise EXCELLENT program. A curiousity made itself apparent this week. AtariWorks templates WEAR OUT! Both my Papa's Grafik Press and Security Communications letterheads were affected. On screen they looked normal but when printed the 24 point characters had lost their between word spacing and some "scrunching" of characters was noted. In both cases the letterheads had to be completely recreated and saved again to correct it. No big problem once I figured out what had to be done - a matter of a couple minutes to correct it. But it would have been a major annoyance if I was doing 50 mail merge form letters instead of just a couple copies of invoices. Might be a good idea to make a backup copy of your often-used templates and do a trial print of anything that uses a template before running a batch. I'm not sure what is causing this phenomena since this is the first time I have encountered it but two common practices were shared by these templates. They both had Metafile copies inserted into them routinely and they both were Abandoned after use. Once again, the Very Merriest of Holidays to all!!! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 35 Fri Dec 24, 1993 J.WILSON103 [J_Dub] at 07:27 EST > A curiousity made itself apparent this week. AtariWorks templates > WEAR OUT! Man this is hard to believe...one I have NEVER heard of, but I defer to your knowledge Papa. J_Dub ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 36 Fri Dec 24, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:02 EST Mike, The page won't stop printing for quite some time, usually. This is normal. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 37 Fri Dec 24, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 12:13 EST What about something like GSPOOL? Will that help the Canon BJ-200? In that it will spoll the work. Brian ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 38 Fri Dec 24, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 13:20 EST Brian, Something like FPPRINT or OutBurST will output to the BJ about as fast as it can print in graphics mode. Consider the amount of data that has to go to the BJ at 360x360. It is HUGE. Speedo is smart enough to only send the actual ammount of data needed per swipe. Thank goodness, since for an 8 inch page it would send over 17000 bytes for each 48/360ths of a vertical inch! Wonder how much data has to go over for the 600 dpi printers! There must also be some humongous number crunching going on for speedo to construct that page. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 10:48 AM Mountain Time Friday, December 24, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 39 Fri Dec 24, 1993 E.BETZ [Mr.Bud] at 14:00 EST To all, In response to all the inquiry to the WordPerfect 6.0 Font Pack from Bitstream as to whether it is a speedo font pack or not, I quote from the User Guide, page 1, Introduction, 2nd paragraph: "this package contains Bitstream (R) typefaces in Speedo (TM) format for the IBM PC." That should solve the mystery. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 40 Fri Dec 24, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 22:54 EST I agree with Mr.Bud... if you don't have this Font package yet, GET IT! It's the cheapest way I've found yet to get your hands on a LOT of very high quality Speedo fonts. Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 41 Sat Dec 25, 1993 A.B.SMITH [Barry] at 06:53 EST Yep, the fponts pack is well worth the money! Has anyone tried AW and Speedo on a TI microWriter LED Printer? I saw these printers in SAM'S Club at an attractive price. In fact, does anyone know if these printers are worth a good God Damn or not . Would they be Atari compatable, AW compatable, and plug and play? Thanks. - Barry ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 42 Sat Dec 25, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 16:21 EST Gregg, Right you are. I've spent a a lot of time lately comparing Speedo and TrueType fonts and the scaling engines used in Windows and in Speedo GDOS, and in most cases the Speedo fonts (and the scaler built into Speedo GDOS) were clearly superior. This is sayign quite a bit, since the TT font system is exceptional. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 43 Sun Dec 26, 1993 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 14:14 EST Thanks Al, the more I use AW's the more I like it. I've just figgured out how to build a mailing lable printout with the database and word processor functions. Took a little while but it really wasn't that hard. Now I"ve got to adjust the 'page' size so that the thing will 'line up' with the laser lables I bought at SAM's. Yea Gads.... talk about expensive! One box (3,000 lables) cost almost THREE TIMES what a standard box (5,000) of dot matrix lables did. Also, my SLM's print is starting to 'fade out' on me.... especially in AtariWorks.... I only pray it's the drum finally giving up the ghost as getting an SLM fixed is almost impossible if the fusor, heater, or inner electronics go out. My going with a MegaSTe instead of a Falcon was, in large part, dependent on having to keep the SLM for another few years.. I coudln't afford to replace it with a LJ IV. But the quality of fonts, especially 12 point, is OUTSTANDING as is the speed of printing AND screen redrawing (comparing Speedo/AW with Speedo/WordUp). My only wish is that there were someway of not loading the various font caches on booting. While vital for any Speedo-based work they rob a lot of RAM for non-speedo stuff such as my Calamus SL. Right now, with everything loaded, I've less than three Meg of free RAM on a clean desktop. Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 44 Sun Dec 26, 1993 R.BENNETT7 [Rodney] at 15:47 EST BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp], I'm using v1.2 of AtariWorks. On the question of the IBMPRO driver. Well, I messed up. I got WordUp and FirstWord tied together. 1stWord Plus that came on a disk with ST Format Magazine has the IBMPRO driver and it works fantastic with the BJ-200. I don't know if WordUp and 1stWord Plus drivers are interchangable between each other. Sorry for the confusion Rodney ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 45 Sun Dec 26, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 17:06 EST Rodney, hey no problem, I always appreciate help. That's why I bought a modem. Thanks again. ~~Brian..Written on Sunday 26 December 1993 at 06:03 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 46 Mon Dec 27, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:02 EST Gregg, Sure, you can change the font cache so that it's smaller when you boot. Use the Drivers DA and save the cache size (it's saved in EXTEND.SYS. The copy that to a folder, rename it to something like BIGCACHE.SYS, and create a smaller one, saving it and renaming it MIDCACHE.SYS, and so on. Then, using a boot util, you can choose the cache size when you boot up. Works great. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 47 Tue Dec 28, 1993 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 03:51 EST Hey, E.BETZ [Mr.Bud] - You've _gotta_ be the same "Bud" Betz that shared this Hawaiian sunshine with me and Papa, right? Good to see you here, too! Whereabouts are you now, anyway? And ins't that WP 6.0 Font Pack a kick? Love them fonts. I order them from Egghead for the store. When are you gonna "drop" in? Business is hopping... Bob Beatty Neutronics Honolulu, HI ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 48 Wed Dec 29, 1993 J.FANNIN1 [littlejohn] at 00:58 EST I have AW ver 1.207,and am having (2) problems with the word processor. (1). When I print an IMG.file in an STW file,my deskjet 500 only prints the first two rows.I've checked free ram and it shows over 1.5 meg left. I don't have any problems printing with Pagestream. (2). I load any AVR sound file into the audio annotation (big word, ay?) and playback is disstorted as all get out. The same AVR file in Sound Lab plays back fine. Any ideas? 1040ste 4 meg tos 1.06 littlejohn ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 49 Wed Dec 29, 1993 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 01:44 EST With all the discussion on GDOS 4.2 recently, I wanted to let y'all know that it breaks under Warp9. There are other problems with it as well, so I wouldn't be too surprised if it isn't released too soon. On another note, does anyone use a HP Deskjet 550C? My father-in-law has one that I tried using over the weekend without any luck. The manual claims a dj500 driver should work for basic printing but I could not get it to work with the one that came with Speedo/AW 1.2. I also had trouble printing ascii files from the desktop (TOS 4.04). The file I tried contained formfeeds, but each page of the printout ignored the formfeed. I think the printer was setup for standard IBM FeCes crap, since he has it hooked up to one with MicroSloth Windoze. What am I overlooking? -Bob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 50 Wed Dec 29, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 02:33 EST littlejohn, Don't know about question 1, but with respect to question 2 is sounds like your AVR sample is unsigned. Use SoundLab to save the sample as signed. (AVR can be either.) Also it should be a 12.5 KHz sample. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 11:54 PM Mountain Time Tuesday, December 28, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 51 Wed Dec 29, 1993 W.JAMES-STEI [Wayne] at 12:23 EST littlejohn, One thing I noticed about Atari works is that it saves the *path* to the .IMG in its documents, not the actual .IMG as in PageStream or other programs. This little difference caused me some grief for quite awhile, because I was deleting the images off my hard disk after importing them! Try putting the images and the .STW file in the same directory (you may have to re-import them) and try to print. Maybe..... ;-) Wayne - Wednesday, December 29, 1993 - 09:06 a.m. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 52 Wed Dec 29, 1993 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 14:15 EST Wayne, Another observation is that while AW doesn't save graphics in the .STW file it DOES save any sound annotations there! Sure can add up to a large .STW file in a hurry. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 11:54 AM Mountain Time Wednesday, December 29, 1993 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 53 Wed Dec 29, 1993 E.SLICK [Eric] at 14:25 EST Pradip, Thanks for the effort in trying to figure out the problems with the black page syndrome. I know with everyone working on the Jaguar, there is little time to for much else. (I have yet to here from the speedo- gdos techs with whom I've left two messages in addition to the one you sent to them. :() I will be sending you the specs on my setup immediately. In an attempt to test speedo, I wrote a short GFA Basic program that used speedo to print to my action laser printer. I did not get any black pages or other similar problems. So, I think the problem is in Atariworks (Perhaps the initialization sequence?). Grouch, Richard It's nice to here that others are using the Epson Action Laser II. I'll bet both of you are using AW 1.2 rather than the version I have 1.207. If you have 1.207, please detail your system configuration. I am using a TT but can install it on a friend's Falcon. Grouch, I will check out the sizes of my driver and compare them with yours. Pradip, In the spirit of saying something good about AW, I would concure with the rest that the printout is excellent. I know this is speedo's doing, but hey, it's AW that uses it :) I also love the spell checker. When it caught the error "non-christian" and suggested "non-Christian" I was nearly floored. To say that I was pleased is an understatement. So many spell checkers don't seem to recognize such errors or even the words. It may seem like a little thing, but it meant alot to me anyway. Eric ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 54 Wed Dec 29, 1993 DMJ [dmj] at 16:16 EST littlejohn, Specifically, load Sound Lab, click "Prefs", click "More Prefs" in the dialog, and click "Signed". Click "Okay", then "Save" (to save this configuration). Load your sample and save it again; this time when you save it, Sound Lab will save it as a signed sample. If you need to convert it to 12.5kHz, do it before you save the sample. Click "Speed", "12.5", "Convert", and "Yes" from the alert box. Once you've fixed the sample you will need to re-import it into AW. -dmj P.S. Further questions regarding the operation of Sound Lab can be answered in CATegory 2, TOPic 6 (dmj software). ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 55 Thu Dec 30, 1993 W.JAMES-STEI [Wayne] at 15:33 EST Mike, Interesting about the soundfiles being stored in the .STW - if I had to do without sound or .IMG in my document due to lost files, etc., I'd rather be missing the sounds. Overall I'm very happy with Atari Works though. The output looks great, and it's very serviceable for many everyday computing tasks. Wayne - Wednesday, December 29, 1993 - 23:41 p.m. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 56 Thu Dec 30, 1993 J.FANNIN1 [littlejohn] at 22:04 EST Hay! Just thought you would like to know, I have B P Syndrome also. Sent Pradip my specs. I hope an update is around the corner. littlejohn ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 57 Fri Dec 31, 1993 K.BROOKS1 [Horizon] at 02:27 EST A little bug to report, unless I'm doing something utterly foolish. In the database module, selecting records via any filter you wish and then putting the cursor in any field. Next, tell it to delete the record, any one at all, doesn't matter. Instant lockup, time to reboot. Sure wish there was a way to automate repetitive tasks as was ppossible in DataManager - F2 copied the entry from the same field in the last record. Keith New Horizon ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 58 Sat Jan 01, 1994 E.BETZ [Mr.Bud] at 00:42 EST Yea Bob, same Bud, same address, same old job. Sort of been here on GEnie since 1985 when I bought my first Atari, a 1040 STf from our pal Kevin at Computronics on Nimitz (wow that was a long time ago). Don't know if you knew him or not. Those Fonts are AWESOME!!! Hey folks, if you've got SPEEDO GDOS, you gotta check out the WordPerfect 6.0 for DOS font pack. IMPORTANT NOTE---IMPORTANT NOTE---IMPORTANT NOTE---IMPORTANT NOTE Make sure you get the font pack for DOS and not WINDOZE!!! WINDOZE font pack is TrueType fonts while DOS 6.0 font pack is BITSTREAM SPEEDO FONTS!!! Atari works is MOST impressive with 'em!! Gotta have it!! 50 fonts for about 20 bucks. Thats 2.5 fonts per dollar, WOW! Bob, see you at the store soon!! Mr.Bud ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 59 Sat Jan 01, 1994 K.GERDES [TraceTech] at 13:25 EST I thought I'd relate to y'all a user support call I received yesterday: A Data Diet v2 user called asking about compatibility with AW and SpeedoGDOS. He had called Toad, who he bought the package from, about a general output problem on his printer and they referred him to Atari. Bob Brodie, yep _Bob_, called him up to do the tech support. Bob wasn't sure about one item, DDv2, so he advised the user call TraceTech. I hadn't received any problem reports so I asked the usual tech questions when I got the call- AUTO folder sequence, which files were compressed, etc. To make a long story short, [yes, please do! :) ] I asked what the output problem was. The user said he was getting a _black page_. The wheels started to grind in my head, I remembered reading related messages in this topic and wondered why this didn't come up previously in the other conversations. So, I told him about the 'black page syndrome' and that he should contact Atari again- ready to give details about his system for their survey. - Keith [TraceTech] ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 60 Sat Jan 01, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 13:34 EST Yep, no problem with AW and DD II, I should know since I use both. Another guy with the same black page problem, sigh. ~~Brian..Written on Saturday 01 January 1994 at 02:30 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 61 Sun Jan 02, 1994 C.KROWCHUK1 [CHRIS] at 21:47 EST Hi folks Off topic but!!!! {anybody else mysteriously loosinG lowercase G's with Aladinn?} Black PaGe syndrome; I have sold 7 copies of Works in the last month and black paGe has struck several times, all copies of works were 1.207. I have called my customers to Get reports, One customer purchased Works for his developers Falcon, he had lent it out and installed Works on a 1040STE, runnin on a bare system he Got black paGe on a deskjet sporadically. This problem cleared itself up when he Got his Falcon back and hasn't resurfaced yet, he is a heavy user of Works. Another customer reports Black PaGe struck his 1040 STE with Geneva and Neo, fontloader, mirror, warp 9, Jar10 and speedo in Auto folder and Neo Panel, printer Q, Task manaer, and warp 9 in DA. He uses a Roland 1012, epson emulation. Yet another customer reports a B.P. problem with his works on his MEGA ST, tos 1.2 with Auto, Speedo, Superboot 6.3, MACCEL, and DA, control panel.He uses a SLM807. This same customer has a MEGA ST/slm807 at work and tried there. He used a totally clean boot and experienced B.P. He manaed to solve the problem by unloadin several fonts to free up memory and the problem has not shown up since. I still have not heard from the other users as to there experiences. Chris @ Computer Direct in Edmonton. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 62 Sun Jan 02, 1994 J.GERMAN3 [Hydraxxus] at 23:23 EST A question was posed at Neutronics the other day and I have been unable to find the answer. Does Atari Works run on a 1 meg machine? A perusal through the manual didn't get me that info and since I have a 4 meg TT I have no way of finding out. DOS font packs? Have to check it out! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 63 Mon Jan 03, 1994 J.FANNIN1 [littlejohn] at 00:29 EST The Word Perfect fonts are great! One thing to remember. They're only on high density! Had to go to my neighbor's to copy them on DD disks. Small price to pay for good fonts. littlejohn ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 64 Mon Jan 03, 1994 E.SLICK [Eric] at 10:12 EST Grouch, You said your Laserjet.sys driver was 61907 bytes. I checked mine that came with my purchase of AW1.207 and it is 62376. I don't know if I can find the smaller driver to try out, so can you possibly upload the driver to the library or send me FMail? with it zipped? Perhaps everyone else who has the black page syndrome ought to see if the size of their driver is different. How about it you guys? What size is your Laserjet.sys. It could be that AW1.207 was sent out with a new version of the driver and that might be the problem after all. Eric ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 65 Mon Jan 03, 1994 R.WILSON36 [Bob Wilson] at 18:17 EST Eric, since I already had SPEEDO I did not bother to put the new drivers in. I still got BP on a mega 2 ST. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 66 Mon Jan 03, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:48 EST Gregg, I've been running labels on my SLM804, but I think I'm going to start doing them on the impact printer, instead, to save money. It won't take that much longer. Papa, I got the revisions. Thanks. You autographed the original cover, so I sort of wanted to keep it. Maybe I'll make it cover 2. I just did the insertions manually. Might send you a few editorial comments in GE-mail. Is audio annotation covered in your big book? I encountered a little bug. I did a search for "xx" (which I use as a bookmark in documents I'm working on). AW found the first occurrence and inversed it. I pressed Delete and one x disappeared, when I pressed again I got a lockup. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 67 Mon Jan 03, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 20:01 EST Ken Van, Glad to hear you got the revision ok. I think there are still a few out there who haven't received it yet. I lost my original list of who had been sent theirs and who hadn't. I think it's gnox, Keith Brooks, and Richard Brown plus Sheldon's customers (sorry I'm late with it - had a problem with my copier - fixed now). Audio annotation is not really covered - just mentioned. Those who have Falcons or ST's with audio sampling cartridges and software could make use of it (assuming plenty of disk space too) but since I don't have a sampler I didn't want to write about something I had no personal experience with. I also felt that, at present, the majority of AW users don't have the audio capability. To all, What version of Speedo is being distributed with AtariWorks now? Is it still 4.1 or are they shipping 4.2? I have seen one post from Bob Semaan indicating there are problems with 4.2 and that it has not been released. From the previous posts it appears that the infamous "black page syndrome" is NOT related to Speedo but is a bug in AW Ver 1.207. One person (in the Speedo topic I think) mentioned the problem clearing up when they unloaded a bunch of fonts. I am wondering at this point if the "black page syndrome" is related to the number of active fonts vs. cache settings. To whomever finds it interesting, Category: Everybody knows that already. Subcategory: Worth mentioning anyway. Font style and point size can be individually set for Database Form and List windows. You can have a nice big font in the Form window to make it easy on your eyes _and_ a tight little font in the list window to squeeze everything onto the printout. Found this out working on a check register tutorial for the upcoming Database book (RSN - really! - I hope!) 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 68 Mon Jan 03, 1994 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:02 EST Ken; True, old-style lables are a LOT less expensive than laser lables. Still, the print quality is impressive as is the speed. The next issue of AEO 'should' have a tutorial/template in it for making your own laser lables with AtariWorks. I don't know when it'll be released though, should have been out several days ago but it looks like the Holidays have played hob with the schedule again . Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 69 Mon Jan 03, 1994 J.DERNAR at 21:32 EST I am running v1.207 and my laserjet.sys is 62376 long. It is dated 12-11-93. Ihave not experienced the BP syndrome and hope not to! I have a Mega4 and use an Epson 1500laser. Printouts are stunning! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 70 Tue Jan 04, 1994 C.BINCKLEY [-- Chuck --] at 06:54 EST To anyone using AW and SPEEDO under Gribnif's GENEVA, If you have had problems with AW crashing when you exit the program _only if you had accessed the Page Setup dialog during your AW session_, GET THE GENEVA RELEASE 003 UPDATE NOW! AW doesn't crash anymore! THANK YOU GRIBNIF! -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 71 Tue Jan 04, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:46 EST Gregg, I found laser labels at a better-than-usual price at a membership warehouse. The discount office supply places (Office Depot, etc.) should have a better price, too. Maybe even Best Buy. We can ease the pain a little, anyway. Ken ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 72 Tue Jan 04, 1994 K.HULET [Ken] at 19:00 EST I need some help in setting margins in AW for my DeskJet. I haven't found any combination of page set-ups that give me a printed margin that I would expect from the values. I've tried using the "Set size to current printer" and also "standard" page sizes,ie 8.5x11. In either case if I ask for a 1" left margin I get something else. Through trial and error I can always get what I want but it seems like it should be easier. What's the trick? Same thing applies to top & bottom margins. Thanks..............Ken ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 73 Tue Jan 04, 1994 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 20:18 EST Ken... my best value (so far) was at a local SAM's warhouse. 3,000 Avery lables for just a hair under $20. Far from cheap and MUCH more expensive than standard lables. They had other lables for less, but they were 'border to border' lables and I'm fairly sure there's no way I can get my old SLM to print that close to the edge of the page to take advantage of the extra space. I may get crazy one day though and blow the $$$ to find out . Ah well, we all make due and do our best with what we have. Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 74 Tue Jan 04, 1994 J.DERNAR at 20:42 EST Gregg.. just try printing on plain paper imagining that it is the label material! ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 75 Tue Jan 04, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 23:09 EST Ken, Make sure the "skip over perf" dipswitch is turned off (up). This is the furthest right switch in the _left_ bank of switches. The DJ500 should give nearly perfect margins with no offset required. At least that's the experience I've had with both of mine. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 76 Tue Jan 04, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 23:10 EST Yea, Gregg, get a glue stick! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 77 Wed Jan 05, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 02:32 EST S.WINICK can get some Laser Labels for Floppy Disks that actually have the Color Band across the top. You can make really nice looking backup or boot disks. If you where gifted, you could keep a Database of your disks and print out labels for them. For that matter... Give them each a number and you could easily find anything in your library. Just print numbered labels and look up whats on them in the database. Change the disk contents, edit your database and no new label even needed. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 78 Wed Jan 05, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 19:23 EST Ken Hulet, Which deskjet do you have and which driver are you using? I got 1 page to print on a 550C using the dj500 driver that came with Speedo. After that 1st page, the rest came out as a couple of lines of control characters on each page. You're doing better than I am at least. Bob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 79 Wed Jan 05, 1994 AEO.7 [Gregg] at 21:40 EST "printing on plain paper"... Yup, that's how I alligned my lable printouts so they'd fit on the bought lables..... no point in wasting $$$$$$. Glue Stick???? Not a bad idea, but then I'd still have to spring for the paper cutter. I can't cut or anything in a straight line otherwise . Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 80 Wed Jan 05, 1994 P.NEREO [Philip] at 22:48 EST Will Atariworks be offered without Speedo, at a lower price, for those who have already purchased Speedo? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 81 Wed Jan 05, 1994 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 23:41 EST Eric - I will bash my head against the monitor and attempt to ZIP the driver. Once that hurdle is past I will inflict other forms of pain and bodily t orture until such time as I am successful in getting the file to you. Stand by, be patient, have hope. . . (:{ Grouch. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 82 Thu Jan 06, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 00:07 EST Boy, am I starting off the new year great !!; I just got the 50 font speedoGDOS font pack from Toad computers. Since I just also installed NEODESK 3, when I went to print out TYPEFACE.TXT, I messed it up !! I need TYPEFACE.TXT to install the fonts, as many of you know who bought the fonts from Toad. If someone could upload via E-mail the "TYPEFACE.TXT", I'll give you $3 of Genie's gift of time, for YOUR time. If you could first E-mail me, so I don't get more than one, I'd appreciate it. Mike a ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 83 Thu Jan 06, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:57 EST Mike, TYPEFACE.TXT is nothing of interest to Atari Speedo users. It's there for those who are stuck with the DOS version. But I'll e-mail a copy to you. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 84 Thu Jan 06, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 14:14 EST I just wanted to thank the person that made the Cardfile to AtariWorks files for the Cardfile Converter. The TAB output also works across platforms and it was fairly simple to get it into NOW CONTACT. Thanks! I'm having a slight problem with the AW BD file though. The field displays are too small. I'll have to look in the manual and learn how to resize them. No dig deal. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 85 Thu Jan 06, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 18:29 EST Gregg, Print LARGE labels - no cutting required! Hey, mon, I'm pushing your leg!!! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 86 Fri Jan 07, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 02:48 EST thanks Al. I just need them to I.D. what files to load into Speedo. Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 87 Sat Jan 08, 1994 D.PHELPS [Doug] at 00:52 EST Is there a way to set the font size for an individual field in the database portion of AW when printing a summation report through the database itself? I have a comment field that is very long and if I reduced the font size I could fit more on the page. Doug ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 88 Sat Jan 08, 1994 A.B.SMITH [Barry] at 05:50 EST What was the final solution to the Dictionary-Thesaurus problem? Where was it decided that it (they) had tyo be located in order for AW to access them properly? Thanks. - Barry 8s ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 89 Sat Jan 08, 1994 B.ANDERSON31 [Bruce] at 07:20 EST Some rumors from Donavan Vicha (author of the AtariWorks User's Manual) in the latest issue of ST Informer: He says that the next version will incorporate a terminal program (he strongly hints that it will be STalker) and that the drawing component of the program will be enhanced. Very interesting . . . ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 90 Sat Jan 08, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:35 EST Barry, In a folder named WORKSYS that is in the folder named WORKS, which also contains your WORKS program, etc. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 91 Sat Jan 08, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 11:52 EST Bruce, If that rumour is correct then I believe we will be waiting a much longer time that I want for version 2.0. ~~Brian..Written on Saturday 08 January 1994 at 11:59 a.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 92 Sat Jan 08, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 16:16 EST Doug, You can set the fonts to different sizes in the Form and List screens. For instance you can use a 12 point font in the Form screen to ease data entry and a 9 point font in the List screen to allow more to be squeezed onto the printed page. You cannot set an individual field to a different font size in the Database _but_ you can do it in the Word Processor. Barry, The Dictionary and Thesaurus should be in the WORKSYS folder within the WORKS folder although you apparently can put it anywhere and set the path to it through Preferences. I have stayed with the stock setup ever since I first installed AW. Bruce, The Beta version that Donovan wrote about almost a year ago _had_ a terminal program. Apparently it was dropped for the release version. I suspect this was to keep the program to a manageable size. I for one would like to see a good basic terminal program with XYZ transfer protocols and maybe some simple scripting capabilities. A nice GEM vector graphic editor would be a welcome addition. AtariWorks could probably be kept to a manageable size by "modularizing" the individual applications. They could be loaded and unloaded as they are called/closed or through a preferences dialog. I am in the dark as much as everyone else as to when we can expect to see Version 2. I have tried a couple of avenues to getting online with Atari as a Beta tester for Version 2 with no results to date. There was a post in one of the other RT's about a month ago that seemed to imply that a Beta of version 2 is out there. If that is true I would love to start working with it. Obviously I have a vested interest but I think my input to Atari would be of value to them. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 93 Sat Jan 08, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 21:32 EST If these rumours are true, it means Atari is working on computer stuff while saying publicly that they're not (too busy with the Jag) - now there's a switch! ;) gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 94 Sat Jan 08, 1994 E.SLICK [Eric] at 22:24 EST Grouch, Thanks for sending me the different HPLASER.SYS file. It didn't work. :( However, a friend gave me 1.2 and I can now print just fine with either driver. IE the problem is with works and not the driver or speedo. I sure hope Pradip can figure out what it is that is forcing a black page. One other item. When I do a mail-merge under 1.207 the first merge is black on page one but all other merges are fine. IE it appears that it is the initialization routing from works that is causing the black page. At least that's the way it looks to me. Eric PS Atari speedo guys never called me back. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 95 Sun Jan 09, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 00:19 EST Papa, Seems you would be a logical choice for beta testing. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 96 Sun Jan 09, 1994 J.P.C. at 09:47 EST Ken Van: >ms you (Papa) would be a logical choice for beta testing (AW from >ATC). Right. But, when was the last (first??) time ATC did anything logical?? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 97 Sun Jan 09, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:38 EST Papa, Works needs smart quotes, a spell checker that lets you change all occurrences, and you as a beta tester. :) BTW, did you get my e-mail, Kona-man? Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 98 Sun Jan 09, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 16:04 EST Ken Van, Thank you for the kind words! I certainly hope they let me in on things. gnox, The grapevine says that Pradip is tied up with Jaguar projects which would explain why we aren't hearing much from him. I suspect that he puts in time on AW intermittently. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see much done on anything but the Jaguar for the major part of this year. Eric, Since I don't have Ver 1.207 I can't do this little exercise. Maybe someone else out there that has 1.207 and the Codehead spooler or GSpool can generate a "print to disk file" of an offending page so that it can be checked with a disk editor. It might shed some light on what is happening. The "black page syndrome" doesn't seem to strike everyone. I met a user yesterday who is running 1.207 on a 1 meg TOS 1.0 ST with an old Star NX-10 printer and has no "black page" problems. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 99 Sun Jan 09, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 16:49 EST Yep, with my old NX-10 it was OK. Not the new BJ! ~~Brian..Written on Sunday 09 January 1994 at 05:42 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 100 Sun Jan 09, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 16:58 EST Papa, I did a print-to-disk using the CodeRam for the BPS - Ran out of RAM! Started to do some math. 8" at 360dpi = 2880 "slices." Each slice is 6 = 17280 bytes/slice. Each slice is 48/360ths on an inch. A 10 inch page = 75 slices. Whole page = 1,296,000 bytes. That is just data, no overhead. Didn't make my RAM disk big enough! (This is for a Canon BubbleJet.) Even so, it seemed to ignore my page size settings. I tried making a very small page so as to not fill the RAM disk and it still overflowed! Something very strange here. Maybe I'll experiment with different drivers and see if they all exhibit BPS or if it is just certain ones. CodeRam will get a workout! The thought about the initialization is interesting. I did notice in the data that I had captured that there were no initilization commands in the beginning - it went right into the graphics commands and each "swipe" was indeed full of $FF. Didn't try to give me any margins or anything - just swipe after swipe of $FF. Made for a soggy page! Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 2:44 PM Mountain Time Sunday, January 9, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 101 Sun Jan 09, 1994 C.KROWCHUK1 [CHRIS] at 21:09 EST I have a customer that has asked the following question of which I can't answer. Can anyone here answer this? Thanks in advance, Chris @ Computer Direct. "To whom it may concern, I have recently purchased a copy of ATARIWORKS v1.2 and I am very eager to try it out. My ATARI system does not have a hard drive with it. A British magazine ST FORMAT had an article stating a company called HISOFT had a way to install SPEEDOGDOS on floppy disks. I have figured the way to get SPEEDOGDOS on to floppy disk but the problem I am having is when I load ATARIWORKS from drive A:, it can not find the graphic fonts and says that I would not be able to print any thing. My current ATARI computer is a 1040 STE with 4 megs of ram, two 720K floppy drives, and a SC1224 colour monitor. Is there a way to get both SPEEDOGDOS and ATARIWORKS working on my system using the floppies and a ram disk, or do I have to purchase a hard drive? I am looking forward to your reply." ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 102 Sun Jan 09, 1994 J.VENGROUSK1 at 21:44 EST Am I missing something in the manual.. or can I really NOT add new fields after ceratingn a database and entering things into it? s ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 103 Sun Jan 09, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 23:19 EST Papa, Did some BPS testing with help from CodeRam. Have come to the conclusion that BPS is, besides being 1.207 dependent, driver dependent. The following drivers definitely give BPS or something similar: Canon BubbleJet Epson FX-80 HP LaserJet Star NB NEC P-Series. HP DJ500 Epson LQ570 The following seem to be BPS free: Star NX1000 Okimate20 Atari SMM804. The following is suspect, but I don't know enough about its format to give a definite evaluation: HP PaintJet. Not having a method of trapping the SLM output nor having an SLM printer I could not check the SLM. I did these tests by comparing the captured output with captured output from AW 1.2. The reason I have a question about the HP PaintJet is that, although the files agreed, they were MUCH larger than any of the others that worked. Could BPS be lurking in 1.2 also? My preliminary conclusion is that it is printer resolution dependent. The three that worked are pretty low resolution. I used a 45k character cache and a 105k misc cache. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 6:46 PM Mountain Time Sunday, January 9, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 104 Mon Jan 10, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 02:18 EST Yes, What Mike A. say; I got BPS once with my Panasonic Kx 1123 using the NEC-P driver. Wasn't quick enough to find out why. Oh, I was in Me. Rez (SC1224) on my 1040STfm/4meg TOS 1.4. AW version1.207. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 105 Mon Jan 10, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:22 EST Brian, Wow! You've been a busy fellow! From what you have found the problem may indeed be driver related. From looking at AW 1.2 files (STW) and the same after processing through GSPOOL it appears that Speedo has the responsibility of initiating the printer with the proper codes since they are not contained in the STW file. If this is true then the culprit may not be 1.207 after all _unless_ it puts something in the STW that is not put there by 1.2. A comparison there might clear that one up. Printing to a disk file clears printer timing as being a possible source. As I recollect a good print to disk file will contain a few initialization codes to set resolution, graphic mode on, etc then proceed with the codes for each pass of the printhead and finally end with an ESC 12 formfeed. Chris, Put SpeedoGDOS in the auto folder on drive A. Put AtariWorks without the dictionary and thesaurus on drive A also (the dict & thes won't fit on the disk). Put the Speedo fonts and drivers on drive B making sure to include META.SYS. Create an ASSIGN.SYS file just like the older GDOS version listing screens 1 through 4. Put the appropriate printer driver as device 21 and META.SYS as device 31. Make sure the ASSIGN.SYS file contains the path to the fonts and drivers in the first line. The ASSIGN.SYS file should look something like this: PATH=B:\SPDOGDOS 00p SCREEN.SYS 01p SCREEN.SYS 02p SCREEN.SYS 03p SCREEN.SYS 04p SCREEN.SYS 21 DJ5.SYS 31 META.SYS All of this has to be done by manual copying since the install prgs assume you are setting up on a hard drive. I think this will cover it. Please "give a holler" if it doesn't. J.VENGROUSKI Hey, what's your name? To add a field in AtariWorks DB just get into the Form screen find a blank area on the screen, depress your left mouse button and drag out a new field. When you release the button a Dialog Box will pop open so you can name your new field. Much easier to do than describe. One note - the new field will be added after the last field. This may put it out of the proper order for ease of data entry. If that happens use the Rename Field option under the Edit Menu to restructure the ordering of fields. If you have already entered data you will need to copy them from the old field location to the new field location - this is done in the List window by clicking on the field name which highlights that field in all records. Hit [Ctrl]-C to copy then click on the field name that you are moving the data to and hit [Ctrl]-V to paste it in. REMEMBER to start from the last field and work towards the first field OR YOU WILL OVERWRITE DATA! AtariWorks Database needs some kind of internal field tracking to allow reordering fields without doing it manually. Maybe in Ver 2??? 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 106 Mon Jan 10, 1994 M.OSTRANDER1 [Mike O] at 07:00 EST Mike Allen, For whatever the information may be worth: I'm using AW 1.207 on a TOS 1.04 MEGA ST4 with AdSpeed and I have _NOT_ encountered BPS or any other printing problem with the HP DJ500 driver on my DJ500. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 107 Mon Jan 10, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 18:47 EST Chris, If I am not mistaken, you can edit the ASSIGN.SYS and EXTEND.SYS files and change the drive letter to B and it should ask you to insert disk B into the drive. Well, I just checked this and AW will NOT ask you to insert disk B. When I went back to the desktop to create a folder on drive A to test, the TOS told me to insert disk A into drive A. AW evedently switched it over without asking. This should NOT happen. ALL applications on the Atari that I can remember since I have used them have asked for disk B (if you had it set to read from disk B) on a single drive system. Thsi goes against the standard and should be fixed. I did just try it with a RAMdisk and it worked fine. You will need to edit the ASSIGN.SYS file AND the EXTEND.SYS files to reflect the drive/path that you want or use the Printer Driver and Outline Font ACCs to set the paths. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 108 Mon Jan 10, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 20:48 EST To all, This "Black Page Syndrome" gets curiouser and curiouser. It is limited to AtariWorks 1.207 but I wonder if it is ONLY the combination of AW 1.207 with Speedo Version 4.11 and a high dpi printer resolution that exhibits it. Has anyone who has had the "Black Page Syndrome" tried it with both Speedo 4.1 and 4.11? If so did using the older 4.1 Speedo driver cure the problem? Has anyone using 4.11 found that by reinstalling the printer for lower resolution (i.e., 24 pin or bubblejet at 180 dpi or laser/deskjet at 150 dpi) cured the problem? It would be nice if we could come up with some definitive kind of advice to give until Atari gets the problem solved. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 109 Mon Jan 10, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 21:46 EST Papa, I think you mean Mike. I don't mind taking credit but he is probably bigger than me {grin}. ~~Brian..Written on Monday 10 January 1994 at 08:52 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 110 Mon Jan 10, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 22:25 EST Papa > This "Black Page Syndrome" ...I wonder if it is ONLY the combination > of AW 1.207 with Speedo Version 4.11 Nope. I only got Speedo 4.0 1/20/93 and I still got the problem. ~~Brian..Written on Monday 10 January 1994 at 10:54 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 111 Mon Jan 10, 1994 C.KROWCHUK1 [CHRIS] at 23:03 EST Mike Allan; One of my customers reported BPS on a 1040ste 4meg with HPLASERJET portable with Works 1.207. When he got his Falcon back after a bit of service, he never experienced BPS with his HP LASERJET portable again. Conclusion; Buy A Falcon!!!('\/') Papa; You really should be THE definitive beta tester for Works!!! Thanks a million, I'll let my customer in on your advice, I am sure that he will appreciate it as well. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 112 Mon Jan 10, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 23:53 EST Actually BPS is VERY puzzling to me. It also seems to be document dependent! Unless I was on something the other night, I actually had one doc that printed ok and then later exhibited BPS. I was never able to duplicate this, however, so I might have been seeing things. I am using Speedo 4.0, TOS 2.05, Warp9 3.80, AHDI 6.05c (BGM partitons) and running in ST Med on a 4 meg MSTe. The test file I was using was a very simple one line that said "This is a test." using Bitstream Charter 12 pt. Nothing spectacular. Well, guess we users will have to do more digging if Atari has Pradip off playing games. Seems like it was ever thus. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 9:33 PM Mountain Time Monday, January 10, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 113 Tue Jan 11, 1994 R.BROTHERHO2 at 01:35 EST I just got a new copy of AW and I'm having some frustrating problems. The worst of it is that EVERY time I try to exit after printing, the system crashes and locks up with four bombs. This also happens if I start a new document after printing the previous one. If I try to save the new document, or even print it, I get the crash and lock with four bombs. Perhaps any file command does this? It seems the only safe way I can work on multiple consecutive documents is to reboot the computer between them. This is VERY aggravating. The other thing is that I don't think AW saves ASCII files with hard CR/LF's after each line like it says it does. I send many of my documents as internet email as well as hard copies, so I need the ASCII files. As it is now, I have to import the files into another word processor to put the CR/LF's in. I don't really like that too much. :) Does anyone else think AW looks a little "unstable" on the screen? It seems that the letters "pulsate" (for lack of a better descriptive term) a lot ... also, when I get to the end of a line and the word wrap kicks in, the entire screen shifts radically to the left and I have to wait a LONG time while it redraws. This happens at the end of EACH line. Sorry to whine so much, but I was expecting a little better. I'm tempted just to go back to WordUp ... that program has its quirks, but on the whole it's pretty good. Thanks ... I'll look forward to some feedback. Rog. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 114 Tue Jan 11, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:32 EST Rog, The crash after printing is what happens if you use Works with Warp 9 < 3.80. If this is your situation, you can fix it by turning W9 acceleration off before printing. (While waiting for your W9 update.) The "pulsation" is normal; you get used to it ... or if you don't, after a week or so of exploring the program, then I guess you don't use Atari Works. Not many people are _that_ bothered by it, though. By the way ... I finally sat down and figured out how to print envelopes from AW on my HP3p. It took me a _lot_ of experimenting because I get all confused with what's height and what's width, and what "margins" are in the page setup, when using landscape mode. But if anyone needs 'em, I can post the settings I use for #10 envelopes. (Of course Papa has probably uploaded a file long ago explaining how to do it, but I didn't think of that until too late. :) gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 115 Tue Jan 11, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 06:18 EST Mike & Brian, Sorry for the mixup there. Both of you have been great helps. Mike, I think you are right about the document dependency. I had been thinking along the lines of document size vs available contiguous memory but given the size of your test the dump to the printer should not have exceeded 100k. Since this is occuring in Speedo 4.0 that still leaves the question of whether it occurs also in Speedo 4.1 which is the release I have. Apparently there are size differences between drivers in the various releases. As it stands right now I suspect that something may be getting lost in communications between AW and Speedo. I don't know enough about machine language to analyze the header in an STW file but I would imagine that is a sequence of instructions to Speedo to wake up the printer then print the following data using Speedo fonts and vector or bitmap graphics. One thought just came to mind - AW, since it offers the option of page orientation and margin settings, may be generating part of the printer initialization sequence itself. Probably the only way to be sure of what is happening is to run some sort of system monitor that can record the actual sequence of instructions and the data passed as the program runs through its trial. Wish I knew how to do it _and_ interpret the results! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 116 Tue Jan 11, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 06:19 EST Rog, What gnox said about Warp9 is what I think is happening also. The shift you are seeing on the screen is probably related to your page margins. If you use 1" margins right and left the whole width of the page will fit on the screen. If you use less that 1" margins R&L the screen has to shift from one side to the other when the wrap occurs. This can be very disconcerting. As for the hard CR/LF check your setup in Preferences. I am not sure but I think you probably need to specify the UNIX style of ASCII. I believe this works both for export and import but haven't tried it myself. As far as the "shimmer" or "pulsation" you see - it goes away once your eye muscles get synced to it. Just use AW for a while and you'll see. gnox, Crabs walk sideways and lobsters walk straight. I haven't done an envelope template because of all the different printers the guys have. I think your HP3 template would serve for all the HP Lasers and the newer Deskjets that feed sideways. Make sure to let the guys know that any IMG's they include as logo must be rotated 90 deg _before_ importing 'cause AW won't rotate a bitmap! I think your template would be a valuable addition to the library. I haven't been able to upload anything lately due to trying to get back into the Database book (it's way behind schedule now). I've just agreed to do a series on AW for Current Notes and that will cut into my time to create any new tidbits to upload. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 117 Tue Jan 11, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:50 EST Rog, Works saves in the ACSII format you tell it to use. In the Preferences menu, you pick which one. Take a look. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 118 Tue Jan 11, 1994 JIM.K [Jim~ST Sysop] at 13:58 EST Gnox, I'd be curious to see your envelope template. However, I still use GEMvelope with AtariWorks. I've got it set to load with SuperBoot, along with AtariWorks and Speedo. Since I've got a IIIp, I'd like too take a look at your template. Jim Kudron 11Jan94 13:36:02 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 119 Tue Jan 11, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 21:19 EST I am running on a MSTE 4 TOS 2.06 Mono system using the HP LJ driver, AW 1.2 and Speedo 4.1. If anyone with a similiar system but, has 1.207 and has experienced the BPS, wants to send me a copy of the file that they get BPS from, then I can test it to see if I get it. Also, send the LJ driver you are using. I would like to keep everything the same except for AW versions to see if that is it. If not, then try the LJ driver. Either way, I think this would help narrow it down some. Just send the stuff in Email. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 120 Tue Jan 11, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:24 EST To all, I need a little help collecting data for the AtariWorks spreadsheet book. It's not started yet but I will be reviewing the SS in a magazine article in the near future. Early on there were reports of problems using formulas in AW that worked OK in other spreadsheet programs. I would appreciate if those who have had this experience would submit their problem formulas for some evaluation. You can post them here on the RT if you wish or EMail them to me @ M.HEBERT1. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 121 Tue Jan 11, 1994 R.BROTHERHO2 at 22:57 EST gnox and papa ... The suggestion about Warp9 was right on ... I haven't tried disabling it yet, but I'm sure that's the problem. Thanks a lot. Al ... I specified the ASCII save with a CR/LF after each line. I'll try the suggestion about the UNIX style ASCII save ... that sounds like it might be what I need. Thanks to everyone ... Rog. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 122 Wed Jan 12, 1994 J.VENGROUSK1 at 00:52 EST Papa... thanks fopr the note on the DB fields. thanks all .. following this thread is educational! coming to WORKS from Wordflair I/II I'm just ecstatic to find something that WORKS ! thought just occured.... could a WF problem with crashing symptoms VERY like BROTHERHO2's be a similar WARP9 problem???? hmmmmmnnnn ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 123 Wed Jan 12, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 03:05 EST Rog, If the 'shimmer' from AW bothers you that much you could try running Works without Speedo to create initial drafts. You will have to save your work and reboot with Speedo to 'format' in whatever type size and font you need to use and to print, but the shimmer only occurs with Speedo loaded. By the way, AW won't do printing at all without Speedo loaded. Bob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 124 Wed Jan 12, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:49 EST No shimmer on the TT, and one that I could detect on my 16-MHz ST. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 125 Wed Jan 12, 1994 TQUINN [Terry~Sysop] at 09:54 EST Got another Atari Works question - this time relating to the Spreadsheet. Does anybody know how to import a template written on another spreadsheet into this one? The ones I am interested in importing were originally written in Appleworks (on a II GS). So far, I have succeeded in moving the templates to a Mac under Claris Works and have succeeded in getting readible files on my ST via a DIF file but a working template? No Joy! Terry Quinn ST RT Sysop and BBS Janitor ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 126 Wed Jan 12, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 21:36 EST Terry, I don't know if it will work but if you can convert the DIF file to DBF there's a possibility. I don't think the formulas will come out right though. Importing and exporting is really a matter of transferring the data contained within a template rather than the template itself. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 127 Thu Jan 13, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 02:51 EST Can you send me the Clarisworks template and I'll play around with it too. If that's okay with you. I've been fairly lucky in moving things between clarisworks and the Atari. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 128 Thu Jan 13, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 03:04 EST Hmmm... Is there a way to import into AW a Pagestream .DOC file ? Don't know if anyone has done this. Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 129 Thu Jan 13, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:28 EST OK, one envelope-printing template coming up. It will be called AWHP3ENV.ZIP. I'll use a font that everybody has (though I use New Century Schoolbook myself.) Mike, > Is there a way to import into AW a Pagestream .DOC file ? No, not directly. The best you can do is export the text from PageStream and import that file into AW, and for graphics, print to disk as IMG and import that into Works. gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 130 Thu Jan 13, 1994 TQUINN [Terry~Sysop] at 10:13 EST OK Kenneth - I will send you copies via E-mail. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 131 Thu Jan 13, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 14:42 EST Mike, Print the Pagestream .DOC file to disk by selecting IMG.PRT as your printer. The .DOC will be saved as a _humungous_ IMG graphic which you can then import into AtariWorks. I recommended this is a "tongue in cheek" method for accelerating Pagestream printouts. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 132 Thu Jan 13, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 14:42 EST Aha! I see gnox has already answered the Pagestream .DOC question. Do you think he's found Pagestream to be a useful auxiliary support program for AtariWorks? 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 133 Fri Jan 14, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:27 EST Keep running, Papa! :) By the way, if you do use the IMG.PRT driver from PageStream to convert a graphic or graphic-with-text to IMG, the resulting file doesn't necessarily have to be humungous, because you can create a document with a page size no bigger than the graphic you want to convert, and copy the graphic to that document before "print"ing it. This might actually be useful, considering that PageStream's drawing tools are _much_ more powerful and easy to use than those in Works. (Aha, the battle is on! ;) gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 134 Fri Jan 14, 1994 E.SLICK [Eric] at 13:12 EST Papa, I believe the problem is not with GDOS but with Atari Works. I have a copy of 1.2 and 1.207 with two different drivers. Either driver works with 1.2 but neither works with 1.207 (ie. 1.207 BPS). Here are another couple interesting facts about 1.207 and printing. The Spreadsheet does not suffer the BPS. The Database prints out a black page, but the data is not blackened out. That is, it looks like white tape on a black page with type on the tape. Does that make sense? Everywhere there is not data, the page is black; everywhere there is data, the page is normal. This is further reason why AW is the likely culprit. If it was speedo, there would have been consistency in the BPS for each module. I'm developing a theory that each of the three parts of AW (wordprocessor, database, spreadsheet) have their own print routines or at least partly unique routines. These differences would account for the three variations. or graphic images it is like writing with black ink on a black page. Since pages 2-?? come out fine, I speculate that AW is using the speedo command that both clears memory and ejects the paper once the first page is printed. onfirm this. Another reason I think it is AW 1.207 that's the problem is that I can write a program that uses the HP driver in speedo that does not print out a black page. HP driver. This occurs in the Spreadsheet as well (not sure with the Database) Does anyone out there have a real HP laser printer? Does it also have the BPS? What other non-Epson printers (ie, doesn't use an Epson mode or isn't manufactured by Epson) out there have this problem? AW does put a carriage return at the end of each line. I have imported several ASCII files into Pagestream and I have to use the option that strips out carriage returns on each line to get it to import properly. And lastly, to put in a positive word. The undo feature has save my act several times. The features of AW are straight forward and easy to use. The thesaurus is great. Eric PS Sorry about the formatting. First time I've used AW to write and prepare an upload (Iuse *upload command). Can anyone tell me how to prepare it properlly? ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 135 Fri Jan 14, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 18:07 EST Eric, > >PS Sorry about the formatting. First time I've used AW to write and >prepare an upload (Iuse *upload command). Can anyone tell me how to >prepare it properlly? > Use ST Aladdin. You could either create your posts directly in ST Aladdin (what I do) or use a text editor (AW, STeno, EdHak, etc.) that will save in ASCII format. Then use the paste file option in the Aladdin editor. Aladdin version 1.62 is available for the download in page 1000. If you are using a Falcon030, LoadAlad, shareware from Keith Gerdes of Trace Tech is required also. A demo of LoadAlad is also available in the libs of the ST Aladdin RT (page 1000). I have to agree with your observations about 'BPS.' AW is the ONLY GDOS app I have that exhibits this phenomenon. I really suspect that it is an 'interface' issue between AW and Speedo. One would think that since it appeared between 1.2 and 1.207 it would be a relatively easy task to go and see what changed between those versions. The old "what did I do last" method of troubleshooting. Something I have noticed on my system (both versions of AW) is that if I turn the blitter off, I loose the bold attribute. This is fine for me since I use ST Medium and drawing Bold is PAINFULLY slow. (This I believe is a Speedo 'problem.') I do wish there was some way of redefining the attributes of the row and column letters/numbers in the SS. They always default to bold of the default font. This makes the SS almost unusable to me unless I turn off the blitter. Ditto the DB. Of course what I really wish is that AW would check for the bold, italic and bold/italic fonts of the font in use when bold and/or italic is selected and use the font if it were available. Ah well, all we can do is report data and hope that Atari lets Pradip out of the game room long enough to look at them. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 3:39 PM Mountain Time Friday, January 14, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 136 Fri Jan 14, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 19:49 EST Eric, I have sent the pertinent part to Bob and Pradip in EMail. ~~Brian..Written on Friday 14 January 1994 at 08:40 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 137 Fri Jan 14, 1994 C.KROWCHUK1 [CHRIS] at 22:43 EST Papa, Have you experienced BPS with pagestream? )Chuckle> Some more news in regards to BPS. It finally struck that Falcon, HP Deskjet under multitos. I guess buying a Falcon won't solve the problem, darn. Has anyone been able to get it to consistently happen? We seem to be having a problem duplicating it and then all of a sudden it strikes. Almost scary. I hope Pradip looks into this soon. I would hate to see a program of ths potential be referred to as "BUGGY" because the problem was not fixed quickly. Sigh, Chris. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 138 Sat Jan 15, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 00:00 EST gnox, You're right - I didn't think about setting page size to keep the file size manageable. The drawing tools in Pagestream are what I would like to see in AtariWorks. As far as using them in Pagestream to create something to import into AW via IMG . . . I'm not so sure. The drawing would be created as a vector but exported as a bitmap and subject to the usual bitmap resizing problems. This might be a way to do some nice text effects for mailmerge documents in AW. Have to give it a try some time. BTW, do you know what equivalent dpi the IMG export is? If it is screen resolution it will look terrible if you try to use it with the same ruler widths in Pagestream and AW. The new font program that Jeremy Hughes has written exports IMG but gives the user the option of setting dpi to match his printer. It will be interesting to see it when it arrives in the US. Mike & Brian, You guys are great!!! I just want to say thank you for all the effort you've put into moving the "Black Page Syndrome" toward some kind of resolution. Hopefully it will happen soon 'cause the pressure's on and it's not just here in the RT. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 139 Sat Jan 15, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 00:03 EST Chris, As a matter of fact I have seen BPS in Pagestream and in Calamus too. I created a black page template for each one of them when I first got my Deskjet 500 to use in checking the quality of refills on my carts. If they gave a silken soggy black page they were all right!! 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 140 Sat Jan 15, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:40 EST Eric, AW formats ASCII output in several different ways. Look under Preferences for the choices. In this way, it's very flexible, and Atari did a good job. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 141 Sat Jan 15, 1994 E.ROSEN [Ed Rosen] at 02:43 EST Rog, Bosem is correct about booting without Speedo to circumvent line shimmer in AW, but there is a more elegant solution that doesn't require a reboot before printing and speeds up scree redraws by about 30%. Use a bit mapped GDOS screen font, installed via the assign.sys file and gemsys folder, et voila, no more shimmering. Then reformat your document in the Speedo font of your choice. This is the only way the _I_ can handle AW word processing for long periods. Ed (self proclaimed President of CAAWS, Crusaders Against AtariWorks Shimmer) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 142 Sat Jan 15, 1994 CBARRON at 03:00 EST I have a pana. 4450i, use hplaser drivers, no noticable problems, but I might not have 1.207. On pgs img output, 75,150,300,2300 dpi come to mind. 2300+ is the DEFAULT IN PGS!! Play with the print density buttons and the dpi will be displayed, for the imp.prt driver of pgs.... Best bet would be to size the image to the size required in pgs before printing. Create a second doc the page size a little bigger than the required image copy/paste the graphic to the smaller doc. an print that smaller page. Fun wow. Of course avant vektor and/or convector II will produce gem metafiles from bitmaps. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 143 Sat Jan 15, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:27 EST Eric, Sounds like good detective work. We might say slick. ;-) Maybe it will help to get this thing fixed. If you use Aladdin, you will get properly formatted messages. You might have to use Alt-P if you edit your text to get it reformatted. Ed, If they fix it, then you'll be a rebel without a CAAWS. Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 144 Sat Jan 15, 1994 G.NELSON16 [GFN] at 13:37 EST I just got a copy of Atari Works vrs. 1.207 and have a few questions that have probably been answered before, but due to not wanting to search past messages will bother you with them. 1. Has anyone had trouble printing consecutively with Warp 9 3.75 turned on? I can print once and then when I print a second time I get the busy bee and zilch no more access. Reboot time. 2. Is the only way to move an image on the WP page up or down, through the cut and paste commands? Is there a way to do it ala PGS.? (click and drag where you want.) 3. Did anyone feel a tutorial would have been nice to have? 4. Does anyone know the AW msg archive #'s? 5. Did anyone else feel a little let down when initially working with AW? I had the impression that it was interfacewise similar to Mac and Windows integrated software. I had imagined a more colorful Icon bar and neat icons. Well first impressions aren't everything, I remember being somewhat let down with Superbase but once I began to use it more I was awed. 6. Is the database relational? Can it extract information from different bases? Well I'll leave those to be answered and continue to explore AW. (question one is really troublesome) GFN ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 145 Sat Jan 15, 1994 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 14:19 EST First you need to upgrade to Warp 9 3.8 to stop the lockup. Second Pap has wrote a great book on AW which is better than the manual! Third search under AW and you will get the archives on AW. Let down? Yep, compared to Microsoft products. However, this is only the first release of this program and time will tell if it improves. The data base isn't relational. an..Written on Saturday 15 January 1994 at 03:16 p.m. ADT ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 146 Sat Jan 15, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 14:38 EST GFN, Hey - give us a name or "handle". We'uns is friendly, heah! To answer you questions (and you'll probably get a bunch of answers) 1 You need to upgrade your Warp9 to ver 3.8 to get rid of the crash after printing bug. Alternatively, while you wait for it, turn screen acceleration OFF prior to printing. 2 To move an image place your cursor on any line that is the image occupys then press [Control]-Z or click on Select Picture under the Edit menu. The image will be highlighted and you can move it around or resize it at will. If you resize it make sure to click on Correct Aspect Ratio under the Edit menu to restore the original proportions. Clicking anywhere outside the image will deselect it. You can also Cut, Copy and Paste images at will using the Edit menu selections or their hot key equivalents - [Control]-X is Cut, [Control]-C is Copy and [Control]-V is Paste. You can Cut or Copy an image then Paste multiplie copies if you like. The image remains on the Atari Clipboard until replaced by a succeeding Cut or Copy. 3 and 4 There are a bunch of files in the Library already. Get into the Library menu, hit "3" to search the library, enter "works" as the search string and just hit [Return] on the next two prompts. Might be an idea to turn your capture buffer on first because there's going to be about 100 files listed. As far as tutorials go the files in the library contain several. The AtariWorks manual is _really_ quite good but there is no way to incorporate tutorials to illustrate all the power hidden in AtariWorks without making the manual 8 to 10 times its size. I have heard that there is a book available on the word processor portion of AtariWorks and rumour has it that the same author will be publishing tutorial books for the database and spreadsheet. 5 The only icons missing from the tool bar are the printer and page layout icons (at least those are the only _significant_ ones). Personally I would rather not waste desktop real estate on icons that are not essential to composition of the text on the page. 6 The database is a "flat file". It is not relational. You can access data from other database files or from the spreadsheet by Copy and Paste. The flat file database is not as powerful as a relational but is _infinitely_ easier to use. If the AtariWorks database had been made relational it is doubtful that the program would have been able to run on a 1mB Atari and 99% of the users would never have taken advantage of the relational aspect - it's too much like learning to program and most users just want to use their computers. Hope this helps some and look forward to seeing you in the RT again. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 147 Sat Jan 15, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 15:57 EST In Pagestream2.x, there is a .DOC file called "TYPETOM" that will show and print out a specific font. It shows all the characters of that font in 14, 18, and 48 points. Then it shows a sample paragraph in 10 pt. with various leading. Also showing the font as italic, bold, backslant, etc. My question is, is there a similar document yet for AW ?? I would be great to really see what a particular font looks like. I have a notebook with 75+ fonts of Pagestream this way.Is it even possible to have a sampler like this on AW ?? Mike a ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 148 Sat Jan 15, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 17:03 EST Mike, That would be a good project to do for the guys. I did a couple templates for displaying fonts but nothing as comprehensive as TYPETOM. I haven't been able to do anything lately for upload due to conflicting schedules and the need to concentrate on the database book. Why not make a template in AW based on the TYPETOM doc then upload it to the library? Changing fonts for the sample printout is simply a matter of clicking Select All under Edit then selecting the appropriate Font under Style. Since there would already be a variety of point sizes in the doc you wouldn't need to set point size - just select the font name and hit [Return]. What say? 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 149 Sat Jan 15, 1994 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 17:04 EST 'Papa', There's an easier way to change the order of database fields; just click-drag them. "Works" like a charm for me! You have to click the Heading, of course. Just haul the whole column over, and plunk it down where you want it, like between two other fields. Also, it seems that since Geneva has been upgraded, the problems with the formulas not working left town. It is hard to tell where the problem is when so many new options come out in such a short time, and when a problem like that goes away, it's almost like the end of a bad dream, and you hardly remember it. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 150 Sat Jan 15, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:11 EST GFN, You might search with AW, too. Papa, You're too modest. How's this guy going to know you wrote the book? Are you waiting for us to tell him? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 151 Sat Jan 15, 1994 G.CARLSON1 [Gary C.] at 19:28 EST littlejohn, What is this about WordPerfect fonts? Are they fonts that run on IBM WordPerfect 5.1 or 6 that can be used on Works? Or are they Works fonts that can be run on WordPerfect Atari. No, that last would be too nice to believe. By the way, if you can post a reply to me directly, it would be nice. gary.c ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 152 Sat Jan 15, 1994 R.KASSOF at 21:23 EST Hi I have a question Re: atariWorks When I run the program out of HotWire AW can't find the dictionaries "Overlay \WORKSYS\AMERICAN.OVL not found". Resetting the Preferences and tinkering with the WORKS.INF file won't remedy the problem. If I run AW from the Desktop it works fine. Any clues? Ron ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 153 Sat Jan 15, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:09 EST Gary, The WordPerfect 6.0 Font Pack (for DOS) fonts will work with SpeedoGDOS. It contains 50 fonts and they are nice looking. Also, your current Speedo fonts will work with WordPerfect 6.0 (for DOS). Make sure you get the one that is label 'DOS version' as the one for Windoze is TrueType fonts. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 154 Sat Jan 15, 1994 G.ROUSH [Gary Roush] at 23:14 EST I just bought Atariworks today from TCN. I worried about the BP problem that others are experiencing on vers. 1.207. Well that is the version I got. I wrote a few things on one page and had no BP problem. It printed out nicely. Now I have a question. I use the Epson LQ-800 printer. Can someone tell me where I can find a 'SYS' module for this printer. I am currently using the FX-80.SYS module. I will use it until someone can tell me there is a LQ-800 module. From time to time, you can expect me to be asking questions about this program. Today, I printed out the 1994 calendar trying just January and had a problem printing. It printed the month names wrong. Looked fine on the screen, but not on the printer. Everything else on the calendar was fine. I have only the fonts that came with the Works package. I aim to get more fonts later on. What is it that I need to do in order to have the printouts come out better if I don't have a font that I import from someone. Now I know the calendars are IMG files embedded in the document, so why is my printer not printing out correctly? About printing reports from the database. I suppose printing is only the fields that show on the LIST screen. I had hoped to be able to select any field and then create headers, footers, fields where I want them, etc just like other programs do. Is this a feature that will come on the next major upgrade, 2.0? I hope so. I experienced a problem on the database when changing fonts on a record. When I did so, the field heading fonts also changed and I didn't want that. I wanted just the record contents to change fonts, not the field headings on the LIST screen. Went very slow when showing the field names after I did that. Must be a bug? or something I did wrong? I am spoiled at work using the Microsoft works Acess, Excell, Word and I hope Atari Works will continue to upgrade this product in that direction. I am impressed however at the way this program performs, and the speed it is able to do so. I use the stock ST with 2 mega so I can imagine what it would be like if the cpu were 16 MHZ or more. Good product and I am looking forward to the Version 2.0 upgrade that Atari tells about on the upgrade ticket to send them when it is announced. I did not see a registration card come with it and I need to inform Atari that I have purchased it. What should I do about this? Gary Roush ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 155 Sun Jan 16, 1994 G.ROUSH [Gary Roush] at 00:32 EST I neglected to ask some more questions. 1. I wanted to find out if there is any chance that the database will ever become relational as an option. I know not many people do it, but just the same I think the option should be there. 2. Has anyone thought about how reports are generated and if there is the possibility to improve on that? I don't like being stuck with only the fields on the LIST screen and having to have the size big enough and print with only 80 bytes. I'd like to go to the max by font size on a page line. 3. While printing documents on Word and Database, I noticed that the printing was going beyond the actual page size. Maybe this is because I do not have the SYS file of the Epson LQ-800? I hope to solve this soon so I don't experience pages that go over the performation and then move to the next page. Maybe someone can tell me I am doing something wrong? I have kept the page sizes to portrait with 11 X 8.5. 4. In one instance, I typed up a Title at the very top of the page with font 24 size and when I printed it, it chopped half of the Title. So I put on a CR on the top pushing the title down and then the Title printed fully. I did not have a header filled and I noticed the Title printed right at the top of the page. Does this mean if there is no header filled, then the document will print starting at the top regardless of whether header is there or not? 5. A wish of mine would include the capability to have each field print on its own font choice be it small or big and be able to print whatever fields wanted and not be limited to only the fields by size on the LIST screen. As most of us know, a good program would produce good reports by any means and include all the fields on the report line for each record if wanted. What ya think Papa of all this? I am a programmer by trade and like to get the best possible features on the programs that I have and of those that I see with good potential. This program I think has great promise. If there is only one programmer working on this program, then I realize it would take awhile for major upgrades to materialize. Major programs on Windoze (if less than 33 mhz) come out nicely only because there is more than one programmer working on them. With only one programmer, they'd never get them done. (grin) Programming a program for windows is a pain and time-consuming! I am one of those guys that is hard to please, so bear with me in what I am saying. I know I have only had this program for one day and will learn more about the power behind Atari works and version 2.0 hasn't come yet of which I expect will probably address many of my wishes. Sorry about the long list, but it's better to do it all at once than to have many small messages. Gary Oh another thing, how do I cancel the printing? I tried to CNTL-C as the dialog box says, but it just keeps on printing! Gary ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 156 Sun Jan 16, 1994 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 01:25 EST Mike, Is it confirmed that Pradip has moved from the software development area to the Jaguar area? In a way it would make sense, he seems to be a fantastic programmer, but to let AW languish just as people are in the beta test phases of 2.0???? If you could confirm or deny.... John ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 157 Sun Jan 16, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:57 EST STYVWERX, I'm still trying to figure the acronym you use for a "handle". You are right, of course, about the click & drag reordering of fields. This has to be done in the LIST window and is reflected in the FORM window. I was trying to emphasize what I feel is an important part of setting up a database. Namely, create the fields in the order that you will normally enter data. Perhaps this is a carry over from my days of programming in BASIC-09 with its strongly typed variables and the necessity of declaring and dimensioning everything before using it. I have a feeling that some of the problems with formulas may have been due to constructing them without sufficient attention to the priority of operations to be performed. I haven't heard anything from anyone since I made my request. What I wanted to determine was if the problem occured mainly when trying to construct a formula via the Paste Function method or also occured as a direct entry formula. Ken Van, It's just my peculiar sense of humor. Actually, I don't have to wait for you guys to tell him - YOU JUST DID! Gary C, The WordPerfect fonts are Speedo fonts that Bitstream puts up in a package for WordPerfect 6.0 for DOS (as distinguished from WP 6.0 for Windows fontpack which uses Truetype). I don't think WP for Atari is compatible with Speedo but may be wrong. Aha! Turn the page and I see that Wayne has already answered you. We'uns is notorious for "gang answers"! R.KASSOF, You need file #30335 AW_PATCH.LZH from the Codeheads. It's in the library - only 5760 bytes long. It patches Hotwire to accomodate a path problem that is in AtariWorks' code. This is the same path problem that prevents AtariWorks from working properly with JumpStart and several other program launchers. Gary, Wow! I hope you were offline when you composed those tomes. Re the "Black Page Syndrome". It does not strike everyone. I don't believe anyone has ever reported it on a 9 pin printer. It has been reported on 24 pin printers, inkjets, bubblejets and lasers. The thinking at this point is that it is due to some change in the code of AW 1.207 as compared to AW 1.2 which _never_ has BPS. The Speedo version used has no bearing since BPS occurs with Speedo 4.1, 4.11 and 4.2. Since you are using FX80.SYS AW thinks you are running a 9 pin printer. I think there is an LQ800 driver in the Speedo package but since I only have the Deskjet and Laserjet drivers on my hard drive and since I packed my Speedo disks away I have no quick way to check for it. If you can't find the LQ800 driver you might try the NEC driver. The problem with my calendar templates has been reported by others also. The templates were created in MyDraw including the month names. The resulting GEM metafiles were then imported into AtariWorks. Some people had problems with them and others didn't. I uploaded just the GEM metafiles a few weeks later on the off chance that they may be imported with slight differences on different setups. The fonts in the database are a source of annoyance to a lot of people. Basically this is what you _can_ have: One (1) font of your choice in the FORM window and one (count 'em (1)) font of your choice in the LIST window which does not have to be the same as the one in the FORM window. Anything else you want to do with fonts has to be done after exporting a database to the word processor. Once it is in WP you can play with fonts all you like and reformat to your tastes. Be aware that the fields are tab delimited and the tabs accompany the field when you export it to the WP. This can be the cause of mysterious format changes when you embed a field within some text (like when you do a personalized form letter). The offending tab is an "invisible" tab. You won't see it on the ruler bar _but_ you can get rid of it by highlighting the contents of the offending field in the WP document _plus_ the following word then selecting Replace... under the Search menu. Enter [Control]-I for the word to Find: and simply enter a [Space] for Replace With: Definitely not the most elegant way to deal with it but it works very well. The offset you are experiencing on the printout may be due to the FX-80 driver. The printout should conform to the Page Setup parameters. Any fields which would slop over the page margins should not print or be cut off at the margin. Headers and Footers are printed _between_ the top and bottom margins and the top of form, bottom of form respectively. Reports that you print directly from the database (or spreadsheet for that matter) should be treated as "rough" drafts. Final printouts should be done after importing to the word processor and "massaging" there. While I have no doubt that AtariWorks could be coded to allow for multiple font selections in the database and spreadsheet and to permit style changes the code would increase the size of the program to unwieldy dimensions. It would be necessary to use overlays in order to run in a 1 meg machine with the accompanying reduction in speed. It would also make the database and spreadsheet less intuitive and "user friendly" (I hate that term - PC's may need to distinguish their programs with it but Atari programs tend to be congenial by nature). The database and spreadsheet are _intended_ to be used with the word processor and their standalone report generation capability is a side benefit. True standalone databases and spreadsheets often include the kind of formating capabilities you mention because they have to - they don't have the support structure of a superior word processor to help them out! AtariWorks began as a group effort but Pradip is responsible for most of the code and is the _prime_source_ for any changes or upgrades that will occur. Whether Atari will bring in others to help him I can't say - don't know. Doing it as a one man show has the distinct advantage that all the nuances of the code are known to that one man and there is less duplication of routines (one of the causes of PC bloat - common amongst gang-banged programs). [Control]-C will stop the printer but it may take a while. The keystrokes will be in the keyboard buffer but AW is not going to look there until it has time between sending blocks to the printer. If your printer has a large buffer it will probably suck up the better part of a page before you can stop it. There is no registration form enclosed in the AtariWorks package. According to Bob Brodie, the Director of Communications for Atari, Version 2 of AW is presently undergoing beta testing - whether this is "initial" beta or "intermediate" beta or "final" beta I don't know. I personally don't expect to see a Version 2 release until late this year at the earliest. The Atari employees have to be paid and that money will be generated primarily by Jaguar sales. The games console must take precedence for the time being whether the non-gamers like it or not. I think the "spinoff" that will result in the long run will be well worth waiting for. One final note - When you think of AtariWorks remember that it can do its thing in 1 megabyte with an 8mHz processor without resorting to overlays or module load/dump routines. At 8mHz I can be more productive in AtariWorks (from composition to printer dump) than I can be in Windows with a 386SX-33. I would like to see _even_more_ power built into AtariWorks but not at the expense of forcing the user to ever increasing processor speeds and memory requirements just to maintain the same level AND quality of throughput. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 158 Sun Jan 16, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:25 EST GFN, Get Papa's Grafik Guide to Atari Works. It's just what you are looking for. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 159 Sun Jan 16, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 03:25 EST Papa..... Hmmmm.......That sounds challenging; to make a sample font DOC like TYPETOM. I'll see what I can do. Others; If you are looking for the speedo/bitstream Wordperfect 6.0 for DOS fonts; If you buy them from Bitstream, they come ONLY ON 1.4 3 1/2 disks ! What to do if you have an st/ste ?? Well, just buy them form Toad Computers. What toad did was buy the EXACT same box of fonts, and they loaded them onto 720K disks for us atarians ! It costs a little more ($54.95) but they're ready to go, and you also have the fonts on 1.4K disks too. So much easier. Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 160 Sun Jan 16, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 04:20 EST John, Pradip's whereabouts are strictly rumor. I have gotten it from several sources, however. (Not ST Report!) Papa, First - What happend to the blank lines between your paragraphs? I've got a feeling they were there when you composed them, but got dumped in the upload. I assume you aren't using Aladdin. There is a LQ-570 driver with Speedo, but I don't believe it works with the LQ- 800. I think you are right that the NEC P-Series driver might work. Side note that maybe you might have some information on. I've been trying to import GEM files created in Kandinsky into AW. Things were going fine until I had some multi-column text in the GEM file. Have you seen anything like that when importing GEM files? It was an interesting discovery to me that the GEM files are stored in the AW document whereas the IMG files are not. Of course I understand that IMG was added at the last minute due to the pleas of many users. Hope you are right about the 'spin-off' from the Jaguar. Sure would be nice to see Atari Computers as 'Alternative Computers' and not just limited to music. I don't expect to see them compete with the clones or Macs, but I still think there are enough folks around to support the Atari and Amiga markets. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 2:06 AM Mountain Time Sunday, January 16, 1994 ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 161 Sun Jan 16, 1994 G.ROUSH [Gary Roush] at 05:06 EST Papa, I think you are right about the BPS being related to only the 24-pin printers and the high quality printers. I just tried the NEC series on my Epson since there isn't a LQ800 driver that came with the program (grrrr) and sure enough, lines were coming out black with '30' on the next line then BLACK and so forth. On the FX-80 (9-pin printer driver) which I chose, it printed pretty good on my 24-pin printer. It makes two waves of printing for each line and the second wave advances just a teeeeny tiny notch, which is causing it go beyond the page specs. (sigh) I guess I am going to have to wait til the bug of 1.207 is fixed and need to find out if anyone knows of an Epson LQ driver? I tried an Epson LQ driver, which I used for the OLD GDOS, but it didn't work because it wasn't made for Speedo (sigh). In the meantime, I will just use the (cough cough) FX-80 on my 24-pin printer (luckily something works) and use it for simple printouts...and when I get the LQ-800 driver, I will make page 1 only one line and put on a page break so the pages after that won't have the BPS problem til the bug is fixed. Now about your worry if I typed all this online???? Hahaha! No way, papa! I am using STORM to make this note and then upload it with the ASCII option and thats it. (smile) (For those who are wondering how it was done, entering *U for a reply on the first line when replying will let you upload an text file. Just choose the ASCII option.) Gary Roush ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 162 Sun Jan 16, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:39 EST Papa, > Changing fonts for the sample printout is simply a matter of clicking > Select All under Edit then selecting the appropriate Font under Style. > Since there would already be a variety of point sizes in the doc you > wouldn't need to set point size - just select the font name and hit > [Return]. You're kidding! I never knew that you could apply different sizes of the same font using Select All. Can't wait to try that! By the way - an aesthetic point - your messages would be easier to glean wisdom from if you'd put a blank line between paragraphs. gnox ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 163 Sun Jan 16, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:38 EST Gary, Control-C does cancel printing. Just give it time. The print engine of Speedo is far ahead of the printer, so that when you tell Works to cancel printing, it cancels what it is doing, but lets the printer finish what it is behind on, if I am explaining this right. Papa, Check your Return key. Must be stuck! All those CRs that you're putting between paragraph's aren't showing up. :) Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 164 Sun Jan 16, 1994 THOMPSON2 [STYVWERX] at 14:15 EST 'Papa' STYVWERX is a holdover from the younger days, when, like many young people, (and at least this old one) my field of attention was more shotgun, and my interests bounced from one idea to another. When I got to recording them, on the computer, with the 8 alpha limitations, I put them in a folder that I could remember as "Steve's Works". Ever since, I've been trying to lose a letter somewhere to put it on a license plate. Mike I found out that the LQ570 series drivers don't work for the LQ1010, and by extension, won't work for the 800 series. The StarNB24-15 gave me the best output for my Epson of all of the available SpeeDos Drivers. Gary, Try the StarNB 24-15. You may like it. I have an early version of Works,(Didn't even get SpeeDos), and have never had BP, but I now use a BJ- 200, using the BJ10 Driver. Slooooooooow!, but nice. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 166 Sun Jan 16, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 19:26 EST All, Well, that obviously didn't work. I'll have to check the setup in Steno or go back to using Reply in Oracle. I'll re-send that one from Oracle. At least it will break the paragraphs apart. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 167 Sun Jan 16, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 19:36 EST Mike M. Your FONTTYPE.STW file looks good. Since you are using a small extract from my book as part of it I am hereby publicly giving you permission to do so. Adds to my notoriety, don'tcha know! Mike A & John G, Reading between the lines of the last Brodie RTC I surmise that Pradip is probably doing a lot of "handholding" with Jaguar developers. Teaching them how to do it right. Rumours is rumours, however and we should all be careful about making that clear when expressing ourselves like this. gnox, Add global font change to the list of undocumented features. I found it out quite by accident when I highlighted a section of text that had two different fonts in it and opened the font selector. Couldn't understand why it wasn't showing me a font or point size until I took another look at what I had highlighted. Re IMG.PRT - I answered the question about dpi equivalent (and someone else mentioned it also) by trying it. Makes it easy to do a mailmerge of a Pagestream doc with only one printing pass in AtariWorks. Just have to select the proper printer dpi rating before printing to disk. Mike Allen, I haven't been using Kandinsky that much. I prefer to use MyDraw since it has a more intuitive feel to it. Kandinsky has the better bezier controls and allows specifying drawing attributes (XOR in particular). I'll try something in multiple columns to see what happens. AW doesn't seem to exhibit any peculiarities in importing multicolumn text from MyDraw but you have to set spacing between lines manually while still in MyDraw to make it look right. IMG's are not included in the document in order to keep the size of the document manageable. They were a last minute addition to AW but that's not the reason why they are handled like that. Ventura Publisher has been doing the same thing right from the start. I would like to see the option of drawing the IMG on screen to make it easier to blend text with it. It could always be "hidden" later to speed screen redraws. Watch the PC market over the next few years. It seems to me that there is already a trend toward abandoning what is an obsolete hardware and operating system design. The PowerPC seems to me to be a transitional device to enable people to keep the software they are used to while making the transition to a more logical environment. Sort of like some of the utilities that enabled people to run CP/M programs on the early DOS engines. When people suddenly wake up to find that PC compatibility is no longer a desirable characteristic they will be looking to other sources - and not just the Mac! An intuitive GUI interface and extensive selection of mature software packages that meet general user needs rather than niche market requirements will determine who gets considered and who doesn't. I think Atari is better off in this regard than Commodore. Apple will probably need to slow down on "thrashing" the market with new models. The "spinoff" from the Jaguar I believe will be in two areas. We may see some new computing hardware using the Jaguar chipset and we may also see better support for non-gamers financed by Jaguar sales. To all, The missing space between paragraphs are due to a peculiarity of GEnie Oracle. If you compose replies while in Oracle and send them up the spaces are sent also. If you compose the replies in Steno then send them up from Oracle the space disappears for some reason. I'm going to try sending this up with the *u command instead of through Oracle. Hopefully it will come out all right. Time to go perform the "Collation March" 'round the dining room table. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 168 Sun Jan 16, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 19:38 EST Well at least the paragraphs got separated. I tried adding an extra space between paragraphs but that didn't come through. Looked OK on the upload but it's not there now. 'Papa' - online ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 169 Sun Jan 16, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 20:26 EST Papa: The second posting was a DEFINITE improvement over the first!! (at least my headache has subsided... ). Try putting TWO spaces on the lines separating the paragraphs. I think GEnie leaves a blank line if there are 2 or more spaces on it, otherwise it reformats, removing the line. Rob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 170 Sun Jan 16, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 22:33 EST Rob, I d'loaded Storm today and will try using the editor in it for doing my RT tomes. I tried two spaces between lines in Steno on the last post and still lost all my between paragraph spaces 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 171 Sun Jan 16, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:59 EST Gnox, Being able to change ALL the sizes at once is one of those things that we didn't mention online ... because it seemed so obvious. But, of course, it isn't. BTW, Calligrapher has the same ability. Very nice. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 172 Sun Jan 16, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 23:10 EST Papa: Forgive what might be a silly question, but I have to ask: why aren't you using Aladdin? Rob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 173 Sun Jan 16, 1994 G.ROUSH [Gary Roush] at 23:39 EST Pradip, Or anyone? I am desperate! I bought AtariWorks a few days ago and received the 1.207 version, uh oh! I find to my dismay, I get the BPS and am anxious to start getting out my printouts. I used the Star-15 driver for the Epson LQ800 printer which I have and it seems that it will work, because the black page covered my whole page perfectly from top to bottom. Many of you have the 1.2 version and are not using the 1.207 til the bug is fixed which makes you lucky guys. As for me, I am stuck until the program gets fixed. Can anyone give me a suggestion on what to do? Papa mentioned that it seems to hit only the high resolution printers and not the 9-pin printers. I believe he is right. I used a Epson driver for 9-pin printers and got a printout although it wasn't perfect printing. It did not experience BPS, but the 24-pin driver did. I will be anxiously reading this post til an answer comes up! Believe it or not, the good raving reviews that I read on the magazines and on AEO told me that it was good time to purchase the Works. What a timing it is for me to have this happen to me. Oh well...I had better darn get my money's worth for purchasing this program. Gary ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 174 Mon Jan 17, 1994 C.ROMERO3 at 00:29 EST Hi folks: With reference to the problem found while printing out the AW_94cal I also got overlapping letters at first. The thought came to me that this document was created using st hi res (I have color monitor) so I ran Sebra and ran AW in simulated mono, voila everything looked good and printed out as advertised. I had a similar problem with AW_POPUP and it also is corrected. Why? Who knows... carlos ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 175 Mon Jan 17, 1994 E.SLICK [Eric] at 00:41 EST Gary, I know just how you feel. A friend gave me 1.2 and now I have both on my desktop (1.2 for printing). BPS hits only page one, so put a blank page for page one and you will be able to get something even though you will use up your ribbon fast. You might try calling ATARI and asking them to send 1.2 (or the dealer you bought it from), though you won't find Atari's number in the manual. The FX-80 driver will work for you, though printout is not nearly as nice. All, Thanks for the tips. It seems I had forgotten to toggle on the "CR after each line" option (I turn it off for pagestream needs.). I would love to use Aladin, but my home machine doesnt' have a hard drive and my TT at work has modem1 port burned out and no matter what I've tried, Aladdin won't communicate with any of the other ports. Has this changed? Papa, Try putting a period instead of a space between lines. I want to see a relational database. One intuitive way to do it would be to have each field be able to have other names: one of two types. The first type is a name unique to that field. The second type is a name common to all other fields that use it. That way, you can easily share data between databases if they share the same name. The unique name could be used to retrieve data as well. This could be implemented in a point and click method quite easily. Formulas could be built rather easily using the same method. The only thing you would need would be buttons for If/THEN, the operands, and, well, maybe that is all you would need for most uses. Eric ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 176 Mon Jan 17, 1994 P.LOUIE1 at 02:46 EST Anyone out there have any success in printing labels and reports in Works 1.207? When I print labels or print reports, the first line of the page gets cut off. I have an Epson FX85, mono Adspeed MegaST4 w/TOS 1.4. I tried disabling Geneva and Neodesk but the first line still got cut off. Anyone else have this problem? -Phil PS How do you know what version of SpeedoGDOS do you have? I can't find a desk menu or info anywhere that I remember... ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 177 Mon Jan 17, 1994 G.ROUSH [Gary Roush] at 03:13 EST Phil, I had the same thing happen to me about the line cut off when printing. I just pushed it down another line and then it would print. I think it cuts off only when the font is bigger than 12 point. Eric, Use up my ribbon, you must be joking, ha ha. I will call the store and see if they have version 1.2. I have a friend who has 1.2. I think I will call him up and get the version from him. Thanks for the suggestion. Your suggestions about relational databases sound good. Perhaps you read my note on that too, huh? Gary ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 178 Mon Jan 17, 1994 G.ROUSH [Gary Roush] at 03:16 EST Phil, Forgot to mention how to know which Speedo Version you have. When you boot up the computer, watch the messages. You'll see the Speedo GDOS message show up and with it comes the Version of it. I have 4.1, which is the latest one at this point. Gary ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 179 Mon Jan 17, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 03:48 EST If it's of any help I have a 24-pin Panasonic KX-P1123 printer and have good luck with the NEC-P series driver. To all with BPS..... What rez. were you in ? I *think* I was in medium ST resolution; it didn't happen in mono mode....... Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 180 Mon Jan 17, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:55 EST Rob, I am not using Aladdin at home due to insufficient hard disk space. I have the drive dietized but it still doesn't have enough room. GEnie Oracle accomplishes much the same function for me without all the overhead. I downloaded Storm today and may start using its capabilities once I get the hang of it. 'Papa' from within Oracle ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 181 Mon Jan 17, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:55 EST Carlos, I have a tendency to forget about using color monitors since I do all my work in mono. My kids have the SC1224's for their setups since they want the games. Another good emulator to try is Double. With the SC1224 you can have the option of 640 X 400 interlaced (flicker, flicker) or double high scrolling. In mono it gives 640 X 800 interlaced (with flicker) or double high scrolling. Comes in handy for doing a simulated page preview since you get almost the whole page at one time. Bigscreen is even better since it gives you the equivalent of a 1280 X 960 scrolling display and you can preview the whole page by scrolling through it from top to bottom. Both are small auto folder programs and can be toggled on or off during the bootup sequence. I don't use them often but find them indispensible. Thanks for the tip on the calendar templates. No one else has mentioned that. If I get the time I may re-upload that file with revised instructions and a copy of Sebra or Double. Or if someone else wants to do it for me I won't mind. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 182 Mon Jan 17, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:55 EST Eric and Gary, I just had a thought. Since "Black Page Syndrome" seems to only effect the first page in a document try this to save on your ribbons, ink or laser cartridges. Insert a "soft" page break immediately below the first line of the first page then do your document starting from there. If it works you will a nice piece of almost clean scratch paper _and_ a good printout without wasting a lot of ink or toner. Give it try and let me know if it works. Might be a workable interim method for dealing with the "Pernicious Printing Problem". 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 183 Mon Jan 17, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:56 EST Phil, Sounds like a conflict between Page Setup parameters and dipswitch settings in you printer to me. Make sure you are not using IBM emulation (if the FX-85 has it) and that skip over perfs is off. I don't have any way to check on this - probably one of the other guys could give you better advice. Geneva and Neodesk should not have any effect on the printer cutting off a line. Speedo gives its version number during bootup when all the various auto folder programs ID themselves. It flashes by pretty quick but it is there. BTW, I got your order and will be shipping on Teusday or Wednesday via Priority Mail. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 184 Mon Jan 17, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:34 EST Eric, I forgot to mention a little experiment I tried with the database. I wanted to see if I could link a two database files together. I created a field that contained the filename of the database I wanted to link to and double clicked on it - the result was nothing of course. I also tried dragging the field onto the AtariWorks icon in Neodesk while running under Geneva - also with negative results. The idea still has some merit in that it gives an onscreen reference for which file to open in another window. Definitely not relational unless the database contains info about your relatives (couldn't resist that - sorry) but it might prove useful in coordinating merges into the Word Processor where two or more database files are being used such as drawing address and account info from one database and product info from another when doing an invoice. I am rolling that around in the back of my mind as a possible subject in the database book. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 185 Mon Jan 17, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 04:35 EST Mike, You may have hit on something there. I never thought about the possibility of BPS (or is it "PPP" now) being related to MONITOR resolution. If it is then the problem could be possibly be dealt with by using Sebra, Double or Bigscreen. I have a feeling that things are coming to a head on BPS real quick now. If we don't see a remedy from Atari we'll at least have some positive workarounds to help people out with until Pradip can get back to AtariWorks. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 186 Mon Jan 17, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:28 EST Papa, Yeah, I knew I was tellin' him. I thought that was what you wanted. Some lonnnng posts here lately. Some even without CRs between paragraphs. Ouch! Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 187 Mon Jan 17, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:54 EST Did we decide that we can import comma-delineated database files? Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 188 Mon Jan 17, 1994 C.KROWCHUK1 [CHRIS] at 09:49 EST Papa, But could you rely on it happening when you wanted it to? Chuckles and snickers, Chris. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 189 Mon Jan 17, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 14:04 EST Papa, One of the first things I tried was running Sebra. (I use ST Medium) With my Canon BJ I still got BPS (PPP). I didn't try the other drivers using Sebra however. Mike ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 190 Mon Jan 17, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 15:31 EST Ken Van, Yeah, I kinda figgered somebody would tell - or he would ask. I occasionally get into one of my wierd moods and do that sort of thing. The database will import comma, tab or dog biscuit delimited files. They may need to be processed through the word processor or an ASCII editor beforehand to insert the field names. Try exporting a simple database file in comma and tab delimited formats - it goes out as ASCII which you can then examine to see what AW will expect to find in an imported file. You will not find dog biscuit delimited files in the options _however_ if you can locate one of those rare puppies AW will import it. You may find it necessary to substitute brands - make sure they are fresh! DBase files can be imported provided they were flat files to begin with. Relational files won't be much use. 'Papa' ;) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 191 Mon Jan 17, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 15:31 EST Chris, My faith in Atari is only exceeded by my faith in Atarians! Expect nothing - be surprised by everything! Mike A, Well, if Sebra didn't do anything for BPS on the Bubblejet it probably won't for any of the others either. Maybe the soft page break thing will work - certainly hope so. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 192 Mon Jan 17, 1994 ARCHIVIST [Charlie] at 15:46 EST Eric, there is a shareware program available now called LOADALAD that will let you use Aladdin on your TT with modem ports other than modem 1. Check out the press release here in our library, or look in the ST Aladdin RT where support for the program is based. Charlie/sysop ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 193 Mon Jan 17, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:12 EST Papa, Storm's editor is quite a programming feat. Nice job from Al Page. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 194 Mon Jan 17, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 19:27 EST Papa: Ahhh... I wasn't aware that you were using Oracle. I thought you were doing things manually. Now I understand... and I can relate with the 'insufficient hard disk space' when using Aladdin... if it didn't make things so much easier for me, I would be hard-pressed to keep using it. ;^) Rob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 195 Mon Jan 17, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 19:32 EST The NEC-P driver does not work with the LQ-800. For now we owners of Epson LQ (pre 570) printers are stuck with the Star NB24-15 driver. If Atari ever gets around to sending me the GDOS developer's kit I am going to write an LQ driver for Speedo. I also need a relational database in Atari Works. To me a 'flat' database is like drinking decaf coffee. I don't care about mailing lists or any other lists for that matter, and to be frank about it I have never been able to find any use in a non-relational database. The idea that a relational DB has to be difficult to use is a total falsehood. I see no reason why the simple tasks available in AW now would have to become intimidating just to add relational capability for those users who need it. Besides, many users will find they've outgrown AW's database as soon as they try to manipulate their data, rather than simply organize it. Bob ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 196 Mon Jan 17, 1994 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:30 EST Papa, Thanks for the info on database. (Poop on the dog biscuits?) Ken Van ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 197 Mon Jan 17, 1994 C.KROWCHUK1 [CHRIS] at 22:01 EST Papa, I have reported BPS several times where it has occured on a 9 pin dot matrix. V2.107 w/ speedo4.1 and roland 1011, a 9 pin "low quality" workhorse. I know its old but it is faithful and real loud tooo! (I am getting the impression that maybe someone should be taking a list if Pradip isn't?) Chris. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 198 Mon Jan 17, 1994 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 22:20 EST Couldn't Atari or someone offer these people with 1.207 a 1.2 version until they get it fixed (which may be a LONG time considering they have Pradip doing something else)? Since they already OWN AW, going to a earlier version SHOULDN'T be a problem. Of course, knowing how Atari works, they would probably charge for a downgrade. They always did do things backwards. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 199 Tue Jan 18, 1994 COMPO at 00:07 EST The current release of SpeedoGDOS is 4.2. Robert ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 200 Tue Jan 18, 1994 E.SLICK [Eric] at 01:58 EST Charlie, Thanks for the tip on Aladdin. I'll check it out pronto. Papa, The soft page doesn't work--already tried it. However, if you are doing multiple copies or a mail merge, BPS happens only on the first page printed out. Also, if you create a dummy page and the print pages 2-??, BPS is still on the first page printed. So far the only work around is to get 1.2 are grit your teeth and waste a bunch of toner or ribbons. IMHO Atari should have jumped on this problem right away and offered and immediate solution (even if that meant making 1.2 available free to 1.207 owners). Not even one call back for my three calls... I'm not a happy camper and my initial enthusiasm is now marked by disappointment--mainly due to the lack of (seemingly so) effort on Atari's part to fix this deadly problem. AW 1.207 is essentially useless due to BPS and it seems that those of us who bought it have been left to fend for ourselves. This situation has not encouraged me to think that Atari stands behind their products. It's very frustrating. If you have not already, send your BPS information to Pradip via Email. List all the essential info. I guess it's time to make another call... Eric (Disappointed but still hopeful) ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 201 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:45 EST Al, From the little bit of time I've had with Storm so far it looks quite capable. I haven't tried doing a split screen or two windows with it yet to see if I can have an RT or EMail message on screen while I am composing a reply. That would really be a tremendous help. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 202 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:46 EST Rob, The answer of course is to get a bigger hard drive which I sorely need to do but other concerns carry a higher priority right now. I do my books on floppies so I don't have to concern myself about where the IMG's might be and then make archival backups to a folder on the hard disk. The time it takes to do an incremental save gives me a moment to think about what I am going to say next or pour another cup of coffee. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 203 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:46 EST BOSEM, I partially agree with you on the relational database point. They _do_not_ necessarily need to be difficult to use or learn to use. Many times a relational database is really the only viable way to perform a specific group of tasks. I have yet to see any database, relational or not, that is as intuitive as the AtariWorks database. I think having Form fields that could be expanded vertically for multiline entries and some simple record linking capabilities would greatly add to the database's utility without adding too much to the size of the code or runtime overhead. As far as the intimidation factor goes - there are a great many users out there who are intimidated by any kind of database. Strangely enough they often have no problems using something like Cardfile. I think what intimidates them is the necessity of creating and assigning attributes to the fields. The very sense of intimidation and the fear of losing some important data are enough to create a mental block where databases are concerned. AtariWorks may well serve as their first introduction to creating and using databases. As their experience grows and their concept of how they want to manipulate their data becomes clear they will naturally gravitate toward programs such as Superbase to achieve their aims. I would hazard a guess that the majority of users will find their database needs fully met by a flat file database and would not use any relational capabilities even if they were present. All they want to do is organize their data as simply as possible and be able to retrieve what they want when they want it with little or _preferably_ no fuss. Please don't take this a "putdown" - as we all know, gentlemen _do_ disagree. What I have to say is nothing more than my opinion from my peculiar perspective and, while I have never been known to be wrong, I am sometimes misled, misinformed, missing memory cells or just plain myopic. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 204 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:46 EST Ken Van, You're welcome. 'Papa' who is trying to keep the spaces intact. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 205 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:47 EST Chris, Somehow that slipped by me. Mike Allen did some rather extensive testing of various drivers via print to disk to see what code was actually being generated. Brian Harvey posted the results to Pradip. With your experience it appears that BPS strikes everywhere and no one using 1.207 is immune. There haven't been any posts yet from anyone trying my "soft page break" suggestion. I have no way to check it out myself but I hope it provides a usable workaround until the problem can be solved. It's definitely a funky way to do things but "one does what one can with what one has". 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 206 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:47 EST Wayne, We don't actually OWN the software we have purchased. We don't always even OWN the media on which it was distributed. What we do possess is a LICENSE to use it subject to various restrictions. From a legal point of view I cannot condone a user providing a copy of 1.2 to someone who has purchased 1.207. I do, neverthless, believe that doing so does not violate the SPIRIT of the copyright laws - just the letter of the law. As far as Atari making downgrades to 1.2 available upon return of 1.207 disks - that makes sense from a user's point of view. The problem with doing something like that is that it is tantamount to saying they can't fix the problem. This is just the kind of opening the competition is looking for to discredit Atari in the Jaguar arena. It makes more sense from a corporate standpoint to simply acknowledge the problem's existence and state that it will be corrected as soon as possible without specifying a date. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 207 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 02:47 EST To All, If anyone feels that my posts are just simply getting too long or that I am using the RT as a forum for opinions that are better expressed elsewhere please let me know. I promise not to be offended. Sometimes I get to thinking I need someone to rein me in. 'Papa' ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 208 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 03:09 EST Eric, Thanks for trying the "soft page break" idea. Maybe it can still work if AW is given something to print before it. If not all I can say is, "AAAARGHH!!!" I agree that AtariWorks is next to useless if you can't get decent printouts from it. I don't have a problem with BPS myself since I am using 1.2 but I am just as frustrated as you are. I have a vested interest in seeing AtariWorks succeed. If it doesn't I won't have anyone to sell my books to and many hundreds of hours work will have to be chalked up to experience. I see from my previous posts that the spaces are not coming through. I am using Oracle 1.2 at home and have Oracle 1.3 at the office. Possibly that is what is doing the nasty to me. I think I better get cracking on Storm. 'Papa' online and hitting CR before the prompts. ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 209 Tue Jan 18, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:21 EST Eric, LoadAlad will force Aladdin to use any of the TT's other ports. There's a demo of it in the files here. Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 210 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.MASTALER [Mike] at 05:10 EST In AW, if, say, I write a big paragraph in just the upper left quadrant of the 8.5X11 page (visualize the page divided into quarters). Now, I want to go back and type in something in the UPPER RIGHT quadrant (I'm kinda making the upper part of the page into a TWO column piece), how do I do it? If I type in that upper right quadrant, when I try to JUST select the upper left part to, say, change its font size, AW thinks the whole upper part is ONE paragraph. I don't want that; I want two SEPARATE parts, one on the left and one on the right. In pagestream all I'd have to do is draw a Column on that right side, or put a "box" around the right side, and I could work on just THAT side. Hope I explained it correctly. in AW, if I try to 'darken' the upper left side only, to change that font, the dark area goes all the way across the screen. Don't want that ,need two separate parts, independant of each other. Mike a ------------ Category 14, Topic 20 Message 211 Tue Jan 18, 1994 M.HEBERT1 ['Papa'] at 15:44 EST Mike, You need to set up a page that is one column wide. Type your text and do all editing on that page then copy the text blocks over to your working page as metafiles. The procedure is outlined in my book on pages 68 and 69. According to my records you should have the book by now. Give me a shout if it hasn't shown up. 'Papa' ------------