========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 9 Wed Feb 25, 1987 NHARRIS [Neil @ Atari] (Forwarded) Sub: Hard Disk Information This is the place to talk about hard disks, especially the one(s) from Atari. 206 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 1 Sat Feb 01, 1992 B.REHBOCK [Bill@Atari] at 16:21 EST The Atari Hard Drive Utilities, v5.0 have been uploaded to the ST Library. The filename is ATARIHD5.LZH. The material is copyrighted by Atari, but you may distribute the unaltered archive freely. HDX 5.0 can format virtually any hard drive on the market, including PLI's Infinity 88 Turbo 88 meg removeable Syquest, various Magneto-Optical drives, and others. If HDX cannot determine drive capacity on a SCSI drive connected via ACSI, you may add an entry to the WINCAP file, informing HDX of the drive parameters. Many thanks to the developers and others that beta-tested it. Enjoy! P.S. In the \ALLDRIVE\ folder there is a 'tweaked' version of SHDRIVER.SYS that allows you to have non-contiguous device numbers and boot Syquest drives without a cartridge installed and be able to install any size cart and use it. -Bill Rehbock, Atari Corp. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 2 Sat Jul 25, 1992 M.EVERHART2 [MIDIMIKE] at 16:09 EDT My Megafile 30 went belly up. Is it worth fixing? I'm reading in this topic all the time about problems with the Atari drives and that the Seagates have a short lifespan. Can I use the poser supply and install an ICD host adapter and SCSI drive? ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 3 Sat Jul 25, 1992 M.FARMER2 [Mark Farmer] at 18:27 EDT To: M.EVERHART2 {MIDIMIKE} I have had 2 seagate drives for over 4 years and have not had any problems. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 4 Sat Jul 25, 1992 S.HUGHEY1 [Steve @ RL] at 19:57 EDT Seagates are the worse HD's on this planet. I have a closet full of dead Seagates, atleast 5. At the most, they lasted 1-2 years, then just started writing bad sectors and eventually ate it. I recommend anything SCSI and anything that's not a Seagate! Why Atari chose to put Seagates in their Mega STE/TT's is beyond me... ( My opinion, of course, but 5 dead out of 5 is not a good track record... ) ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 5 Sat Jul 25, 1992 G.ANDERSON at 20:59 EDT I was assuming that he'd gotten the replacement drive REAL cheap and was trying not to spend any money on the deal . I agree though that an ICD adapter & SCSI drive is far and away the best combination to go with if you have the $$ to spend. On the dead MegaFile 30. Unless I misremember the 30/60 megafiles were RLL units so you should be able to just stick in a new RLL unit. Again, the best solution is a SCSI system. You'll have to ask ICD if their adapter will fit in a megafile case AND if the current powersupply can handle it and a larger drive system. A bit of advice: try and go with a 3 1/2" mechanism if you do switch to SCSI... they draw a LOT less power then 5 1/4" units but usually fit in the standard mounts just fine. On not booting everytime... First check your DMA cable. If possible try a different or shorter cable. Second, reinstall your driver. Last, check the power supply and make sure it's putting out enough juce to really drive the larger mechanism. I know my problem with intermittent booting is due to the weak AC they use over here in Japan. Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 6 Sun Jul 26, 1992 S.GOLDFEIN [Haplo] at 02:03 EDT Bob- Thanks for the information. Now can someone tell me if there is a later version up on GEnie and if there isnt would someone at Atari, or someone with an older version Email me a copy of it? On another note Bob, I am only using the SH204 case and power supply and Host Adapter. Chuck - Changing the drive mechanism is as easy as un pluging the old drive and plugging in the new one as long as the new drive is MFM. If it is not, then you either have to find a controller for it that works with SCSI. If its a SCSI drive then you just unplug Controller, and Drive from the power supply and host adapter and then plug the drive directly to the power supply and host adapter and format and wala. Ok, now I just got finished talking with a friend of mine and he said that if the drive says 'AT' or 'AT Interface' that it is an IDE Drive and that means ya cant use it. Sorry. Mark- I am sure the SH 204 is an MFM Drive. It comes with a Seagate ST225 drive and an Adaptec 4000S controller card. Though I have noticed that it has a Chip on it with a stick on label that says (c) Atari Corporation. But I dont think it makes it to much different then a normal 4000S. He doesnt need to trash the drive as the Atari Host Adapter is connected to a controller. This can be removed and a SCSI drive can be put in its place. I am not positive but I think a SCSI CD-Rom drive can be hooked to the Atari Host Adapter with no problems. Though I wouldnt see the need as there are virtually no CD's on the market for the ST. Haplo with Hard Drive Blues ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 7 Sun Jul 26, 1992 S.WINICK at 07:56 EDT Mike, There are essentially only 3 subcomponents inside your Megafile 30 that would normally go bad. They are the drive mechanism itself, the power supply, and the interface board. Make sure you're certain which of those three is the cause of the problem before purchasing a replacement subcomponent. The drive mechanism is obviously the most expensive. If the problem is indeed the drive mechanism itself, Seagates 60meg drive is only a few dollars more than the 30-meg mechanism in your system now, and is a direct plug-and-play installation. It is also considerably faster than the 30meg unit as well as being self-parking. Fixing the Megafile will definitely be the least expensive route to take. But if you should decide to change to a SCSI mechanism and ICD's interface/software combination, you might consider changing the case as well since the Megafile case is designed specifically for the subcomponents installed and will require considerable modifications to install another system. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 8 Sun Jul 26, 1992 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 16:39 EDT Steve @ RL, So what models do you have gathering dust? Depending upon the cause of death, you may have a volunteer to help you clean out your closet. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 9 Sun Jul 26, 1992 S.GOLDFEIN [Haplo] at 21:43 EDT Right, I understand all of this. My problem is in getting the thing working correctly so that I can format it. Yesterday, we got the Supra Utilities v2.61 to format it (or it said it formatted it) and then when we tried to do anything with the drive, it died. Haplo with hard drive blues! Making headway tho! ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 10 Mon Jul 27, 1992 D.MCNAMEE [Dan @ Atari] at 18:55 EDT Halpo, No, don't turn on the drive after the computer. Turn on the drive, put a blank disk in the computer, once the drive has spun up, turn on the computer. When the computer accesses drive A, hold down the Alternate, Left Shift and control keys. This will bring you to the desktop. Once you are there, put in your HDX disk and run AHDI.PRG then format, partition and install your drive. Dan ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 11 Mon Jul 27, 1992 S.GOLDFEIN [Haplo] at 23:13 EDT When I say Die, I mean that it still refuses to allow me to use the drive. Damn it. I hat having the drive and not being able to use it, but I can not afford to take the drive mechanism to Toad, as they will probably charge me to get it working. Haplo with hard drive blues! making headway tho! ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 12 Tue Jul 28, 1992 S.GOLDFEIN [Haplo] at 00:07 EDT Dan - I have tried this numerous times. The computer comes up and acts like it is reading the disk in drive A, but then when I try to open the drive the window comes up empty or comes up and says: Disk in Drive A is not responding. If it is a hard disk check its cable......ect. I have tried everything and all of the connections seem to be good. I have tried another host adapter, a Supra, and another ST. Neither of them seem to help at all. I am really bummed at this point becuase work is getting on me to buy a 'pee-cee.' So any other ideas? Just so that we are on the same wavelength, here is my current setup: GVC 9600 Baud Modem Atari SC1224 Color Monitor Atari 520 ST Computer 1 Meg Of Ram TOS 1.0 Atari SF314 Double Sided Floppy Disk Drive (Drive A:) Atari SF354 Single Sided Floppy Disk Drive (Drive B:) Atari SH204 Hard Disk Host Adapter Rodime RO3057S Hard Disk Mechanism Now, I am planning on updating to TOS 1.4, if I can get this problem resolved, but I dont think TOS 1.0 is causing the problems. I have tried running with NO Desk Accessories and NO Auto Programs, and this still does not help! This is driving me buggy. Haplo with Hard Drive Blues ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 13 Tue Jul 28, 1992 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 04:03 EDT Haplo, Have you tried the 4" drop? That is, pick up that old 520 about 4 inches from the desktop and drop it or, better yet, take it by each side and twist it a little in both directions. If this bothers you, you could open it up and push down on all the chips that are socketed. If you twist it or whatever and it seems to work for awhile, then you have a loose chip. What do you have to loose? You have tried everything else right? There was/is a problem with some 520s that the chips would work loose. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 14 Tue Jul 28, 1992 S.WINICK at 07:03 EDT Haplo, I'm confused. I gather from your comments that Toad Computers, definitely a very competent dealer, is relatively close by; but you say you can't afford to pay them to properly service your equipment in order to solve your hard drive problems. On the other hand, you say that unless you can get your hard drive working, you'll have to buy a PC. Is it just me or is there something wrong with this picture? Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 15 Tue Jul 28, 1992 D.MCNAMEE [Dan @ Atari] at 17:19 EDT Halpo, And you have tried a different DMA cable from the drive to the computer, correct? If so, then the drive mech is dead, and all you can do is replace the mech with a compatable(RLL) unit or completely replace the drive. Dan ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 16 Wed Jul 29, 1992 M.EVERHART2 [MIDIMIKE] at 07:38 EDT Sheldon - thanks for the timely advise. I don't have access to another drive and the nearest service center is 1000 miles away, is there a way I can test the host adapter at home? I get a light and the drive spins, so I think the power supply is ok. What happens is that the activity light comes on when I try to read off the disk and I get 3 bombs on the screen. The computer boots without difficulty off drive A with the HD turned off. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 17 Thu Jul 30, 1992 S.WINICK at 05:51 EDT Mike, It's kinda hard to test the subcomponents of your dead hard drive without the proper service equipment -- or a spare set of replacement parts. From your description, my guess would be that the power supply is probably OK. You can probably find someone nearby who has a multimeter to check for proper voltage out just to be sure. Since the system is trying to access the hard drive, and you're getting the activity light to come on indicating access, the interface may also be OK -- maybe. Have you tried starting from scratch -- i.e. boot from floppy, run the AHDI program manually and try to reformat the hard drive? Unfortunately, its impossible to diagnose a problem effectively without having direct access to the 'patient'. From your description, the problem could be either the hard drive mechanism itself or the interface board (or both). You might have to send it to a service center for a definite answer. If you're not sure you want to spend the money to replace the drive mechanism, you should be careful to find out what the service center will charge for diagnostics only, in case you decide not to go ahead with the repair -- and make sure they will reassemble the system before shipping it back to you even if they don't go ahead with the repair. We've had several customers come in carrying boxes of 'parts' after they had systems 'diagnosed' by some fly-by- night techie --- and by then, several parts were typically missing or damaged. There are several excellent and reputable dealers active here on GEnie -- so you'll be able to 'pester' them in E-mail to keep up on progress of the diagnostics/repair work ;-). Any of us would be a good choice to entrust the repair to. You might just pick whoever is closest to you or someone you've dealt with before and trust. Good luck. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 19 Fri Jul 31, 1992 M.EVERHART2 [MIDIMIKE] at 05:01 EDT Sheldon - thanks again, and I promise to buy my ST BOOK from you when they materialize, but can a West Coast repair center chime in here with an address - I live in Tucson, AZ. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 20 Fri Jul 31, 1992 A.GILL [Sam] at 21:45 EDT Hi, My 80 meg drive died just as I was starting ot back it up. (Some luck, eh?) Anyway, does anyone know of any HD repairers that specialize in Atari HDs, or should I just send this to a Segate repair center and kiss all my data good-bye. The problem is that the drive no longer responds to the poll that the ST does on the DMA line. I think it is a short somewhere, as that caused as similar problem with another drive of mine. I know it is not the ST, but indeed something in the hard drive. Help!! ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 22 Sat Aug 01, 1992 J.PATTERSON3 [Ted] at 14:00 EDT Sam - I'll bet it's a Seagate 296n. Mine died too, along with a lot of other peoples. I decided not to throw good money after bad. Bought a Maxtor 7120 and am very happy with it. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 23 Sun Aug 02, 1992 M.EVERHART2 [MIDIMIKE] at 04:45 EDT A MIRACLE HAS OCCURED! After about 2 million tries to get my hard disk to read anything at all, I decided to give it once last chance before the junk heap and IT BOOTED! Thanks for the advice on reformatting, I got a new bad sector which I guess was in the FAT since I couldn't read off the disk. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 24 Mon Aug 03, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 15:20 EDT You were in luck Mike. Most of the time bad drives only start working once you go out and buy a new one. Or so say Murphy. Frank... ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 25 Mon Aug 03, 1992 F.BELL1 [Frank @ Home] at 15:37 EDT You were in luck Mike. Most of the time bad drives only start working once you go out and buy a new one. Or so say Murphy. Frank... ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 26 Tue Aug 04, 1992 FINZI [Jerry] at 22:12 EDT I also need some help... I have an older 520 ST/Mono system (upgraded to 1 meg, 2 d/s floppy drives) that's lying dead and useless. All because I can't access my harddrive. The SH204 crashed over 3 months ago and I was accessing it (one shot per boot) using the Wedge repair utility. This would only work for the current session. I have since transferred all my database records over to a DOS machine, and am up and running permanantly on that. (I also managed to back up everything on floppies... thank the Lord.... and Wedge!) BUT... I'd still like to get use out of my old ST, IF someone can offer advice about how to get me out the current mess. I downloaded every hard drive repair/utilty I could find and nothing helped so far. The last fiasco happened when I tried to initiate or format the hard drive with HDX (the latest version, I guess) and all I got was a message telling me that my 20 meg drive must have been formatted with an older version of HDX. (So?) I've tried formatting it... no dice. Can anyone offer advice (specific filenames or numbers, please) about ways to reformat and revive my hard drive?? I'd really appreciate it. --Jerry Finzi ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 27 Sat Aug 08, 1992 S.GOLDFEIN [Haplo] at 10:35 EDT Wayne - I have tried all of the above. The problem only occurs when I turn the hard drive on, before I boot. Then I lose the ability to acess floppies. This would be OK, if I could acess the hard drive, besides who with a hard drive uses floppies ;^). Sheldon - I cant Afford to put any more money into the ST at the moment. The ONLY reason I can afford the Pee-Cee is becuase the company I work for is willing to purchase it and then deduct a little from my pay check each week. They are willing to let me work a few more hours per week so that the amount of money deducted doesnt effect what I am making. Yes, Toad is competent, and they are one of the best dealers in the USA for Atari hardware. I just remember that the Atari Dealer in Columbus was willing to do what I want don for nothing, where they want money for it. I dont think its going to take them alot of time to figure out the problem. Dan - I have tried everything. A new DMA Cable, a New Host Adapter, a different computer. Nothing. I am almost positive that the mechanism is not dead, as it was formatted (both Low Level and normally) on a Mac before I bought it. I watched while it was formatted... I have removed the Controller and the old 20 meg mechanism from the drive, and am trying to replace them with a Rodime RO3057S Mechanism, wich I know works. Haplo with Hard Disk blues. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 28 Mon Aug 10, 1992 S.GOLDFEIN [Haplo] at 19:00 EDT Sheldon - What do you charge to 'Diagnotic' a hard disk? Haplo with hard drive blues! ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 29 Mon Aug 10, 1992 G.ANDERSON at 20:49 EDT A silly thought, I wonder if that low-level MAC reformat you saw done to the drive is in some way incompatible with the ST's format system? As I recall the ST's hard drive format is similar to the DOS system and quite different from the MAC's. Also, I know of NO Atari formatters that can handle a low- level format, all are high-level only. I could be wrong of course, but you might want to ask about this since everything else seems to be perfect with the mechanism and your hardware/software/cables are also good. It HAS to be something in the drive format/mechanism itself if you've elminated everything else. Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 30 Tue Aug 11, 1992 D.FISK2 [David] at 04:06 EDT Could someone please tell me what exactly is the difference between a low level/high level format? How do you go about getting a low level format on an Atari? (this was suggested for my dead ST 277 RLL) Remember you're talking to a Techno Peasant here!! Cheers, David F. Fisk ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 31 Tue Aug 11, 1992 S.WINICK at 04:36 EDT Haplo, Didn't you say that Toad was close to you? If so, why not just take the hard drive in to them to be diagnosed/fixed -- they also have a very competent service department. If you'd rather ship it down to us, we'll be glad to diagnose the system for you. I'll drop you E-mail with an estimate -- I don't believe in posting prices on the public message bases. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 32 Tue Aug 11, 1992 E.KRIMEN [Ed Krimen] at 21:10 EDT What exactly does a low-level format do? I've seen them referred to before, but I could never figure out what they were. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 34 Wed Aug 12, 1992 FINZI [Jerry] at 20:55 EDT Can anyone please help answer the question I had about my hard drive? (Read back several messages...) I have a hard drive that I can't reformat. thanks... again... --Jerry Finzi ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 35 Thu Aug 13, 1992 W.JESSOP [WARREN PHOTO] at 04:46 EDT Howdy Gang, I'm considering pulling my ST225 out of my Atari SH205 "Megafile 20" hard drive case and replacing it with something bigger (and maybe faster?). Does anyone have any ideas on what I might consider? I have the model that has the one piece circuit board mounted under the drive. Is this an MFM drive? What are my chances of pulling it all out and putting my Supra SCSI equipment into this case (along with an ST1096N? Thanks, Warren ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 36 Sun Aug 16, 1992 S.GOLDFEIN [Haplo] at 03:18 EDT Gregg - I am also thinking this also. I got the latest version of the Supra Hard Disk Formatting utilities. I setup the partition information and started the format, and then after about 30 seconds it bombs. I dont remember the error message. But I think it was a general error message. Is there a low level format program available for the ST? ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 37 Sun Aug 16, 1992 G.ANDERSON at 17:13 EDT Haplo... I wish I knew more about low level formats. I 'don't think' there are any low level formatters available for the ST/TT, but to be sure I suggest getting with ICD and/or Birkmeyer for details. Both outfits have made their names on ST hard drives and will know a LOT more then I do. Since you're using the Supra utilities I assume you're NOT using an ICD interface/host adapter. I've been using ICD stuff for several years now and have been pretty happy. You might want to bug Towns and see if the new HD utilities from Atari can handle a low-level format. One other thought.... you've had the thing low-leveled on a Mac, do you know anyone willing to try and do one on a PC for you? Just to see if it's doable.... Good luck and keep me posted on what ICD/Dave Birkmeyer have to say. Gregg ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 38 Sun Aug 16, 1992 DOUG.W [ICD RT] at 23:38 EDT The format function of the hard disk utilities available for the Atari (ICDFMT, SUPRAFMT, HDX, etc.) perform a low-level format of the drive. The partitioning function is the high-level format. The only exception to this is with Quantum drives which can not be low- level formatted through software. --Doug @ ICD ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 39 Thu Aug 27, 1992 H.SCHEIE [HALS] at 10:46 EDT When I try to de-frag my HD with Sentry I keep getting Partial I/O error rc @ 52 what does it mean and what can I do about it? I have reformatted the drive, it works fine for a while then I start getting HD errors I seem to get error - 11 a lot. When I run DT I get a lot of bad sectors but none show up after reformatting then they start to appear again. What chips should I suspect or replace and where are they? I have stock Megaste 4. Thanks for any help. Hal ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 40 Sun Aug 30, 1992 S.GOLDFEIN [Haplo] at 20:07 EDT Gregg - I will have to check and see. When I lived in Columbus, it would have been easy to have someone low level format it, but now that I live in Maryland, Baltimore to be exact, I am at a loss to find a awesome computer store. Toad is ok, but a little far. Doug- Do you know any reason why a drive would pass the initial format, partition correctly, and then not work correctly? It formats, says its partitioned correctly, then when I try to set Auto-Boot it says that its not available. This was with one version of the Supra HD Utilities, and with the latest version it says formatting and then aborts and says it has a General Error. Whats a General Error? Haplo with hard drive blues! ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 41 Wed Sep 02, 1992 W.JESSOP [WARREN PHOTO] at 05:55 EDT Aloha, I might need to change the address of my Atari "Megafile 20" SH205. Where do I do this? I've seen a set of 8 jumper pairs labeled A-B, C-D,E-F, etc. Is this the place, and if so, where do I get the jumper clip to put on them? And why isn't this info put into the manual? After I set the drive internally, do I still need to set it in the formatting software? And if so, will it destroy all the info on the drive, like reformatting or zeroing does? Thanks, Warren ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 42 Thu Sep 03, 1992 B.LINCOLN1 at 01:22 EDT Well.. I have been struggling with using the HDX5 stuff since I dnlded it in may, i have a megafile 30 and two st251s that I would like to format so that I can use it with a 68030 accelerator board.... but I cant figure out how to get the HDX5 to recognize that I have the 2 st251 ss as two logical devices within one physical device... it formats the one (0,0) only and ignores 0,1 entirely and there doesnt seem to be a way to tell it to do so... just away it goes.. I entered the st251 info myself, so should I have doubled the sectors total or something odd or is this not supported by hdx5..? Thanks for any help ... (I have, sadly now reformatted half my hd and am sort of in a limbo position, not really being able to use it...) bcl ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 43 Thu Sep 03, 1992 D.CHARTER at 21:01 EDT I believe you are out of luck. The Atari software does not support more than 1 drive. I ended up getting Supra software to do the job. There is an older version here in the library that you can try and see if you like it. I actually ordered the newest version. Duane ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 44 Sat Sep 05, 1992 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:05 EDT The Atari HDX 5 software supports as many devices as you have connected. I once had on a TT: ST1096 internal AND on the ASCI port a Syquest AND a ST157 (both were cabled to the same host adapter). Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 45 Fri Sep 11, 1992 B.LINCOLN1 at 21:08 EDT Hmm.. well.. i have not been able to get it to format the second logical device within the single box (physical unit as it would say) and have been told by two knowledgable people it cant be done... other equally informed people tell me it must be able to be done and this is my response as well.. i cant believe it wouldnt, but Hdx5 does not give me any options.. just Format ... warning..ok choose which Physical device scsi number 0 1 2 etc with 0 highlighted and thats about the size... It has, sadly, now been about 2 months since both my hd were up and running and its beginning to put a rather large crimp in my usage needs... I attempted to call atari today for any help, but they were understandably busy and whoever i was trying to reach took a long lunch :)... so maybe next week..? ..thanks, bcl ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 46 Tue Sep 15, 1992 W.JESSOP [WARREN PHOTO] at 05:41 EDT Aloha Gang, I have an Atari SH2054 "Megafile" (ST225) that I have formatted with the latest HDX5 software. Problem is, after it formats and goes through a flawless markbad procedure, it does an auto partition which I can't seem to control. If I try to partition it after it's been partitioned automatically, it says the the root sector info is damaged (or something like that), so I get stuck with a default setup of 4 partitions of 5.3 Mb each. Oddly enough, I CAN partition it with my old SH205 software that came with the hard drive. I can choose from any of the menu selections, and now have 2 partitions, 4 and 16 Mb. Problem NOW is that it won't autoboot on its own. I have it daisy-chained to a SUPRA (ST1096N), which is SCSI 0, LUN 0. My SH205 is 1,0. Will Atari software recognize a drive that is setup as 1,0 if it is the only drive connected to the computer? Any ideas on what I'm doing wrong? Thanks, Warren ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 47 Fri Sep 18, 1992 FINZI [Jerry] at 14:05 EDT Don't expect any "official" help on your problems, Jessop... (still waiting for an official answer to getting my problem solved... let's see... I think it's a couple of months and several postings now.) --Jerry Finzi ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 48 Sun Sep 20, 1992 C.WARD7 [Craig] at 17:00 EDT I'm looking for suggestions. I need to place more reliance on my home machine than before so I have decided to add a hard disk to the configuration. One option is to add one to my ST setup. These questions come to mind: - Does Atari or any third-party vendor still make a hard disk suitable for a 1040STf? - What changes, if any, will I need to make on the STf (purchased 9/86) to make best use of the HD? - What's it all going to cost? (- Is there an Atari dealer left in LA?) Other options are to make the same kind of upgrade to my wife's MacPlus or to "trade-in" both and get a 386- or 486-based machine. Please reply by mail. Thanks in advance! Craig ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 49 Sun Sep 20, 1992 R.PARKER29 [Randy] at 18:31 EDT Warren - I have the same situation you have with an SH205. HDX5 is _not_ compatible with the SH205. I went back to HDX3.01, which will format and partition the HD, but now I can't get the HD to autoboot, even if I set it to be SCSI 0, LUN 0. I took the unit in to a technician. If he comes up with something, I'll let you know. (Or, if you come up with a solution first, let _me_ know!) Ran . . . ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 50 Thu Sep 24, 1992 B.STOREY [Billy B.] at 07:38 EDT Craig, there is an excellent computer dealer in Bellflower: Mid-Cities Computers. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 51 Fri Sep 25, 1992 C.BINCKLEY at 06:11 EDT Hi! Can someone from Atari PLEASE respond to the various problems reported by several of us here concerning using HDX5 on our (mostly older) hard drives? The docs with HDX5 specifically state that HDX should now work with virtually any hard drive. This has proven to be incorrect, as many of us here can (and have) attest. Specifically, one major problem is that while HDX5 may go ahead and format some of our drives, if we try to change the default partition scheme, HDX5 tells us that the root sector of the drive is corrupt and should be reformatted. The same message comes up EVERY time we reformat our drives and the try to re-partition them. The older versions of HDX, however, have NO problem formatting OR re-partion- ing the drive - BUT, the older versions also won't recognize a Seagate 40 meg drive without us modifying the WINCAP file, and I haven't been able to find any DETAILED specific info on modifying the file for a SPECIFIC drive - the one file in the library which has some instructions of this sort refers to one particular system - that is, an SH204 with a Seagate ST251. _I_ am trying to format and partition an _SH205_ with a Seagate _ST251-1_. How can I find out if the modification is compatible with _MY_ system? Yes, I tried it, and it seems to work OK, but I was really hesitant to do it, without knowing more about what the heck I was doing. HOWEVER, the modification DOESN'T help the problem with partitioning with HDX5... I first posted a message about my problems with HDX5 here in FEBRUARY, and have seen many other messages of a similar nature since then, but I haven't seen ANY response from anyone at Atari addressing these problems with the HDX software. Hey guys, come on! I __promise___ I'll buy a Falcon030 with an internal hard drive as soon as I can afford one - but for now, I have to live with this slow, simple-minded old bear of a drive, and I'd just like to have it operating as efficiently as possible!(8^})... Thanks! -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 52 Sat Sep 26, 1992 FINZI [Jerry] at 10:15 EDT Chuck, You say the older versions of HDX might format the older drives (like mine)... since I lost my old HDX program, do you know where I could find the old one? Hell... ALL I WANT AROUND HERE IS SOMETHING APPARENTLY SIMPLE... I WANT TO REFORMAT MY OLDER ATARI 20 Meg HARDDRIVE! Forget "official" help! (I know Atari is for the most part dead, buried and most likely laying off people again)... how about some old fashioned neighborly help and advice from other users here?? I'm thinking at this point of notifying GEnie that this RT is not functioning as advertised... --Jerry Finzi <----his old ST is sitting lifeless, yet functioning, but without a hard drive... ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 53 Sat Sep 26, 1992 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 18:39 EDT Jerry: I have been trying to find an old HDX but have not been successful. All I have is an old ASTRA hard drive utility that would probably work but I am not sure if it is PD. Astra is no longer in business. I will keep searching as I am bound to have it on one of my disks. We are not ignoring you. We are trying to find the file you need. It should be simple but it isn't. I will make sure Atari reads this though. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 54 Sat Sep 26, 1992 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 20:47 EDT >I have been trying to find an old HDX but ... > Darlah, Jerry I have HDX v 3.01 (boot with it everyday ;) ) if you would like I can upload it, just let me know. I would think it's legal, right? I just exited Aladdin and seached my old library files and found file HDX301 (#11062). I don't know if it still exists or not but you can give it a try. If it isn't there let me know and I will upload it from my original disk. === Joe Rogo === Saturday, September 26, 1992 8:22 pm ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 55 Sun Sep 27, 1992 TOWNS [John@Atari] at 01:33 EDT HDX 3.0 is in the library last time I checked. Have you looked in the Library? -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 56 Sun Sep 27, 1992 AD-VANTAGE at 02:10 EDT Atari-ST RoundTable Number: 11062 Name: HDX301.ARC Address: DANSCOTT Date: 890710 Approximate # of bytes: 85680 Number of Accesses: 760 Library: 2 Description: This is the official release of HDX version 3.01! This version of HDX superceeds all other older versions by Atari and will be shipped with all MEGAFILE drives until further notice. If you have version 3.00 installed on a drive, *DOWNLOAD THIS FILE AND UPDATE* Detailes in the README.1ST file inside the ARCive. Please see the same file for a list of what this new version of HDX will support. -- Please use ARC.TTP (file #1271) to extract. Keywords: atari,hdx,3.01,hd,megafile,3.00,hinstall ---------- -- Ron ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 57 Sun Sep 27, 1992 C.BINCKLEY at 14:58 EDT John - So should we assume that, despite the claim in the HDX5 docs that it should now support virtually all hard drives, those of us with some older d drives are expected to use the older version of HDX because Atari doesn't intend to stand behind its claim of compatibility for HDX5? I'm just still trying to get some help, here - no hostility intended (8^})... Thanks! -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 58 Mon Sep 28, 1992 TOWNS [John@Atari] at 02:26 EDT As I said just a few messages ago in this topic, I have reported the problem to my boss at work. He is checking into this with the people responsible for the HDX software package. I would suggest that until we are able to track this problem down, if you have any older drive.. use HDX 3.0x. I am sure that we will attempt to find the problem and fix it. Then we can provide a fixed version of HDX 5.0 when everything is peachy keen. Okay? -- John Townsend, Atari Corp. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 59 Tue Sep 29, 1992 R.KOHORN at 00:38 EDT I have the feeling that I am the last ST user who doesn't have a hard drive (embarassing to admit). However now I think the time has come to take the plunge. But I am ingorant!! I admit it!! This is what I want to know. With the new LINK device, can I buy ANY SCSI hard drive and use it with my 1040 (un modified - another confession!) and tos 1.0 and then later use it with a Falcon? Also, can I boot with any Hard drive or is my computer unable to boot off anything other than drive A. Thanks in advance. Ron ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 60 Tue Sep 29, 1992 C.BINCKLEY at 05:23 EDT Sorry, John! I must have missed your post "a few messages ago" - it wasn't one of the last _37_ messages prior to your most recent, and I'm missing 2 or 3 from the months before that...(8^}) But thanks for responding (again!) and that's exactly what I'm doing - using 3.01 for the time being (whoever HE is! (8^}))... -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 61 Tue Sep 29, 1992 S.WINICK at 06:30 EDT Ron, You really should at least upgrade the TOS in your trusty 'ol 1040 to TOS1.02 or 1.04 if nothing else. TOS 1.0 was REALLY slow at most everything. You might even be able to find a used set of 1.02 or 1.04 at a very reasonable price for someone who has upgraded to a newer version. But your 1040 should work just fine with a hard drive anyway (those disk reads and writes will definitely be a lot faster with a newer version of TOS though). With ICD's Link Host Adapter, any standard SCSI drive can indeed be used with your 1040 connected to the DMA (ACSI) port. For use as a true SCSI device with a TT030 or Falcon, merely replace the Link and ACSI cable with a true SCSI cable and you're in business. Both machines do use different cables though, so be sure to get the correct one at the appropriate time. You will be able to boot the system from your new hard drive just fine. Several online dealers make their own line of external hard drives, myself included. Conatact any of us you desire in E-mail if you'd like additional information or specific pricing. Sheldon (Computer STudio - Asheville, NC) ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 62 Tue Sep 29, 1992 V.PATRICELL1 [Vince] at 22:41 EDT John, Would it be possible to fix HDX 5.0 to work with an AdSpeed equipped Atari's? It seems to have compatability problems with it as previously reported by many other AdSpeed users. I can't use it on my Mega 4 at all. Thanks. ................................Vince ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 63 Wed Sep 30, 1992 TOWNS [John@Atari] at 03:02 EDT Oops.. Sorry, Chuck. I am running two different Aladdin setups (one here at home and one at work) and I think the one at work didn't do its thing yesterday. I apologize for my oversight. -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 64 Wed Sep 30, 1992 B.REHBOCK [BILL@ATARI] at 13:05 EDT Warren, You will only be able to auto-boot your SH204/5 if it SCSI 0, LUN 0. If it is set up as such, you should be able to format and partition it with your old HDX and install a bootable driver using the latest HINSTALL to install a 5.x booter. HDX 5.x is really geared toward imbedded SCSI drives. It's alright to use the old formatter on a SH204/5. Although, I think I know what the SH204/205 hairball is. 1) Use a text editor and load the WINCAP file (BACKUP the original). 2) Find the line that starts with "#20 Mb :mn=SH204:" (or SH205, if applicable) 3) Remove the "#" at the begining of the line I think it should format the SH204/5 now. I haven't tried it myself, but it should be ok. I'm basing this theory on my memory of the WINCAP documentation that came with my original SH204 back in 1986; it is not secret Atari stuff :- ) The comments inside WINCAP are very self-explanatory, you can even change the default "4 equal size partition" setup. Do you still need assistance re: Adaptec SCSI IDs? If so drop me a note via e- mail. -Bill Jerry Finzi, Leave me e-mail regarding your problem. We are alive and well. Vince, The AdSpeed uses the same memory space that IDE drives use in Atari's. When HDX scans for IDE drives, the AdSpeed's registers get nailed. It isn't going to be a real high priority, but I'll try taking a look into it. What does ICD say about it? ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 65 Wed Sep 30, 1992 V.PATRICELL1 [Vince] at 21:20 EDT Bill, I don't know hwat ICD says about the problem with using HDX 5.0 with AdSpeed. I'll ask them in their roundtable. Thanks. ................................Vince ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 66 Thu Oct 01, 1992 ICDINC at 11:57 EDT Vince and Bill, AdSpeed will not fit in a machine that has an Atari IDE drive installed (Falcon or ST Book). Since our booter now supports Atari IDE drives we first check for the presence of an AdSpeed before doing any IDE things. And of course we do not support IDE if there is an AdSpeed found. The 2.06 ROMs also do IDE things which kick AdSpeed back in to 8 MHz mode at initialization. The simple solution is to put our 16MHz.PRG in your AUTO folder which then kicks it back to high speed. - TOM - P.S. Vince, drop in to the ICD RT once in a while to check product announcements. We are about to release something that may help you. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 67 Sat Oct 03, 1992 R.PARKER29 [Randy] at 20:16 EDT Jerry - Version 3.1 of HDX is in the STRT Lib. I know 'cause I had to download it after I discovered that HDX 5 and my old SH205 refused to cohabit peacefully. It's fairly old but it is out there . . . somewhere. Don't you just love backwards compatibility? Actually, I don't mind that HDX 5 doesn't work with the older drives - I mind that the document doesn't give you a clue! You have to wait until after you've: formatted, marked bad, partitioned - - THEN you find out you're screwed! Ran . . . ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 68 Sun Oct 04, 1992 B.REHBOCK [BILL@ATARI] at 20:19 EDT Tom, Thanks very much for the clarification. -Bill Did anybody try the WINCAP fix for HDX 5.xx and SH204/5's? ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 69 Sun Oct 04, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [Lou (Sysop)] at 22:01 EDT I have a situation which others may have run into so I hope I can get some help. I have three computers which all have internal HD set at zero. All autoboot their systems - a MSTE/4, a Mega4 and a TT/8. I also have an Atari SLM804 and an combo Syquest 44 and 85 Mb Seagate in a shoe box case. The Syquest is addressed as 1 and the 85 Mb Seagate is 2. Inside the shoebox is the ICD clock set as 6. The laser, of course, is 7. I want to hook up the Laser to the combo 44/85 and then I want to connect this daisy chain to a DMA switch which will allow me to run the combo and/or the laser printer from any of the computers. Will this work? Do I need to power up with Laser first? Is there any potential damage or problem if my 44/85 run with ICD software but my internal HD's all boot with HDX 5.0 (SHDRIVER.SYS) ? ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 70 Mon Oct 05, 1992 R.KOHORN at 00:38 EDT I hate when my questions which are so basic come after a response like the last one (i don't understand any of that!), but here goes. What is the difference between the LINK and a host adapter or is the LINK just a type of adaptor. Also when a hard drive has a clock, is it in the host adaptor or the drive itself. Thanks, Ron ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 71 Mon Oct 05, 1992 DOUG.W [ICD RT] at 07:45 EDT Ron, The Link is simply a very small external host adapter (it's the size of a cable connector). If a hard drive has a clock, it is on the host adapter, not the drive itself. --Doug @ ICD ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 72 Tue Oct 06, 1992 J.HAYDEN [JOHN] at 00:09 EDT Lou, It might work if all the partitions are 32 meg or smaller and you do not get the ghosting problems on the printouts using the laser. Usually the laser should always be on. All the boot drives will be using the ATARI booter and I am not sure what the limits are using the Atari software. I am using a DMA switch box to switch between the laser and two of my external drives since I did not want to leave the printer on all the time. ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 73 Tue Oct 06, 1992 C.BINCKLEY at 07:07 EDT Bill, I tried something similar - I DLed a text file here a couple weeks ago explaining how to modify the WINCAP file (from an older version of HDX) for drive mechanisms other than the one (a Seagate ST225) that came in my SH205. It seems to have worked, but the text really didn't explain much about dealing with any specific drive. I had replaced the ST225 with an ST251-1 about a month ago, and I have since discovered that the markbad operation, using the modified WINCAP - what does that mean, anyway? - and HDX 3.01, missed at least 3 bad sectors on my drive. I am hoping that HDX 5 will be a little more efficient in this regard, but I haven't yet had a chance to try the suggested WINCAP mod for this latest version of HDX. I have one question about the modification, though: is simply removing the "#" sign at the beginning of the line for the SH205 enough, or do I have do change anythinng else due to the fact that my SH205 has an ST251-1 instead of an ST225 in it? Thanks for the help! -- Chuck -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 74 Tue Oct 06, 1992 B.REHBOCK [BILL@ATARI] at 12:25 EDT Chuck, If you remove the # from the line: #20 Mb :mn=SH205:dp#0x6cdb: HDX will probably work ok, although the "20MB" designation is going to be confusing down the road. You can copy the line or alter it so that it reads: 40 Mb :mn=SH251-1:dp#0x6cdb: (I think a '251 is 40MB, right? :-) -Bill ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 75 Wed Oct 07, 1992 C.BINCKLEY at 06:00 EDT Bill, I tried HDX 5 with the modified WINCAP today - here's the scoop: I _added_ the following line to the WINCAP file, between the existing entries for the Megafile 20 and 30 as shown (notice the lack of a "#" sign at the beginning of the second line): #30 Mb:mn=MEGAFILE 30:cy#615:rw#615:wp#615:pt=10-10-10:sp#26:dp#0x6333: 40 Mb:mn=SEA251-1:hd#6:cy#820:rw#820:wp#820:pt=8-9-9-14:sp#17:dp#0x6333: #20 Mb:mn=MEGAFILE 20:dp#0x6cdb: The parameters I included were from the WINCAP text file in the library here, created by one Duane Charter, who used these parameters for his ST251 (I believe the only difference between the 251 and the 251-1 is the rated access time - 40ms for the 251 versus 28ms for the 251-1). The only things I changed were the drive name and the default paritition scheme. I have no idea why Duane says to use the dp# he chose, but I just trusted him on it, as I had tried both 0x6333 and 0x6cdb in my experiments previously, and didn't see any difference. The meaning of the dp# numbers is not explained in either Duane's doc or the WINCAP comments, other than to say that it is the "data pattern used to test the drive." Okay - so I backed up the drive (and ran over the neighbor's hose... no, wait a minute, not that drive...) and booted HDX 5 with the modified WINCAP in the same directory as the program, and started the format operation. Lo and behold, a dialogue comes up with 2 selections: "SEA251-1" and "OTHER", plus OK and CANCEL. I selected SEA251-1 and OK, and it started the format procedure. Everything went just fine - it even picked up on the previously unmarked bad sectors I mentioned in my last message - and finished without incident. THEN... I tried the "partition" option - not because I changed my mind about the defaults I had entered in WINCAP, but because that's where I ran into anomalies before, when I tried to use HDX 5 with the original ST225 in my SH205 - and guess what??? After selecting unit 0 from the dialogue - the only selection not grayed-out (I assume because it's the only unit I have attached to my Mega 2), I got the same message as before: STOP! Format parameters in the root sector are corrupted! Please reformat the disk. Once again, I ran the partition procedure from HDX 3.01 and it partitioned the drive with no problem. Then I used the HINSTALL utility from HDX 5 to install the driver, and restored the files to my hard drive. When I rebooted from drive C, I _still_ get the "Unit 0 - identification unavailable...etc." (or whatever) message, but everything seems to be working fine. So these are my questions: 1) Why does HDX 5 seem to be able to partition the drive without any problems when it's doing a format, too, but not when I use the partition option from the menu? 2) Why does HDX 5 tell me "format parameters in the root sector are corrupted" when I use the partition option from the menu? 3) Why doesn't the driver recognize the ID of the drive, even after the modifications to the WINCAP file? 4) Do any of the above possibly suggest there is some kind of problem with my SH205? I don't think it is the ST251-1 itself, as I got EXACTLY the same results with the ST225, except for the dialogue with the SEA251-1 and OTHER buttons in it - which I assume was strictly due to not having the "#" sign at the beginning of the line (when I ran HDX 5 with the ST225, the drive select dialogue didn't appear at all, but the format procedure went fine). 5) I would like to know what would have happened if, instead of adding the line for the ST251-1, I had simply removed the "#" sign at the beginning of the SH205 entry, which _doesn't_ include any of the other variable parameters except the "dp#". Would HDX 5 have been able to get the necessary info from the drive itself, or would it have used the "default" parameters shown at the beginning of the WINCAP file? and 6) Why 17 sectors per track? Does it make a difference? What would have happened if I entered "sp#28"? Well, that should give you something to think about...maybe I should just leave well enough alone, but not only do I think that ignorance is the enemy, I also get off on this kind of low-level tinkering, and I have more patience, and time on my hands, than $$$ in the bank. Heck, I only paid $130 for the 251-1 (well, it IS a refurb, but it's got a 90-day warranty - I figured that would be enough time to torture-test the thing), and doubled my disk space while more than halving my access time (40 megs versus 20, 34ms average real- world access time versus _83_ for the ST225! THAT'S slow!), so I think I got a good deal. Thanks much! -- Chuck -- P.S. My NEXT question is "how do I get rid of this incredibly noisy fan in the SH205???" (8^})... P.P.S. I wrote the preceeding before I read your latest message. -- C -- ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 76 Wed Oct 07, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:04 EDT WINCAP: WINchester drive CAPacity? Al ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 77 Wed Oct 07, 1992 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 21:04 EDT And John wonders why I like ICD stuff better. :-) ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 78 Wed Oct 07, 1992 TOWNS [John@Atari] at 23:39 EDT Seriously, what do you want to see in ADHI that isn't in there already? -- John ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 79 Thu Oct 08, 1992 RJROBINSON [ Ron ] at 00:29 EDT Speed John, speeeeeeeddddddd!!!! ;-) You know, as in "We got the need for speed......" Seriously, in my case at least, the problem is not the disk drivers as much as all the neat ICD utility programs that will not run without the ICD Host. -- Ron ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 80 Thu Oct 08, 1992 R.WATSON15 [Wayne Watson] at 02:15 EDT John, ICD's Stuff Easy to use and setup. Has a built in cache Easy to use and setup GREAT utilities Easy to use and setup FAST formatting and partitioning Easy to use and setup Partition software that will let you set up the drive in ANY way you want. Not predefined sizes that you can't change without a text editor. Easy to use and setup The list goes on. Just use and work with their software for a couple of months including the booter. Format and partition a couple of drives. Pick ANY drive (preferably different ones) and then do it with HDX. Do you think that everyone would recommend and use their stuff over EVERYONE else if it wasn't GREAT! ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 81 Thu Oct 08, 1992 ST.REPORT [Ralph] at 05:52 EDT John, I'd like to see Atari license ICD's software and bundle it with every system. It would be an excellent situation. ICD's software has proven itself time and time again. The support is superb in every respect. Doing so can only benefit Atari. Ralph @ STReport International Online Magazine ------------ Category 14, Topic 9 Message 82 Wed Oct 14, 1992 G.ANDERSON at 03:23 EDT To all Hard Disk Experts.... HELP!!!! Six to eight months ago I was here reporting problems with the 'D' partition on my SyQuest (SyQuest 44meg/SeaGate 84meg combo, ICD Advantage+). I'm still using a fairly new (though not the very newest) copy of ICD's soft- ware. The problem back then was 'invalid copy operation' messages and an inability to transfer ANY data to the 'D' partition from other disks or a software 'save' function. I swapped SyQuest mechanisms, tried different cartridges, changed ICD software, reformatted/reloaded many times, even had my adapter updated by ICD.... No help! Then I deleated EVERYTHING and started from scratch again. For the last few months I thought I'd gotten it fixed and assumed it was a flaky file somewhere.... Guess what? IT'S BAAACK....... Cleanup finds only an occasional bad sector (though it does run VERY slowly in some areas of the 'D' partition, as though finding some but then deciding they're ok)... No other major problems reported. An 'INFO' from the desktop gives the following report on 'D': Folders: 46 Files: 434 Bytes Used: 12575758 Bytes Avail: 9236480 Everything looks normal here, then I run CleanUp again (ver 4.21) with: Sectors: 1 RESERVE, 1 HIDDEN Folders: 47 Files: 434 Bytes used/avail: same as above..... See the difference? CleanUp reports AN EXTRA FOLDER!!!! Yet a count via UIS III (show hidden active) matches the GEM INFO report. So what's going on here? What is this 'hidden' folder and how do I find out what's in it and get rid of it if that's causing my problem... I've lost almost half of my 'D' partition again and DO NOT LIKE IT!!!! Everything else seems ok, and I've never had the same problem on any other partition (fuller than 'D'). Granted, D does get the lion's share of my saving/loading since that's where I keep my WP/DTP data files... but even so I'd have thought it would show up somewhere else if it was a hardware or DMA/cable problem. Does ANYONE have a suggestion? Thanks in advance. Gregg Anderson