========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 32, Topic 11 Message 1 Fri Oct 08, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 15:34 EDT For immediate release CodeHeadQuarters Friday, October 7, 1993 -------------------------- ....................................... : : : CodeHead Technologies announces : : A New Update Policy for Warp 9 : : : :.....................................: You asked and we listened! Many of our customers have asked for an easier way to obtain their Warp 9 upgrades. Until now, we've required the return of your original disk in order to receive most upgrades. Effective immediately, CodeHead Technologies will accept upgrade orders from registered owners of Warp 9 without the return of your original disk. Upgrade orders may be placed in E-Mail on GEnie, Compuserve, Delphi, our own BBS, by phone, FAX, or mail. All that is required is that we have proof of your ownership of Warp 9 by one of the following means: 1. Inclusion in our database from your registration card. 2. Direct purchase with an invoice from CodeHead. 3. Return of original disk. 4. Receipt from a dealer showing Warp 9 purchase. If you have any questions, give us a call. We value our customers' satisfaction and listen to your suggestions. The Warp 9 v3.80 upgrade is $25 plus $3 shipping ($4 Canada, $6 overseas). It comes on two disks, includes dozens of interesting and entertaining screensaver modules, and now has Falcon and SpeedoGDOS compatibility. For more information about the features of Warp 9 v3.80, read the online press release that was issued as W9UPDATE.TXT on September 17, 1993. For more information, contact: CodeHead Technologies PO Box 74090 Los Angeles, CA 90004 Tel (213) 386-5735 Mon-Fri 9AM-1PM Fax (213) 386-5789 BBS (213) 461-2095 GEnie: J.EIDSVOOG1 Compuserve: 76004,2232 Delphi: EIDSVOOG ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 2 Sun Dec 05, 1993 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 12:05 EST John, I want to upgrade my version of PopIt (think it's 1.0). What improvements have been made since I bought mine (from Charles when it was initially released) and what's the upgrade fee? Thanks, MCH ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 3 Sun Dec 05, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 13:55 EST MCH, PopIt 1.3 allows up to 99 hot key combinations. Other enhancements have been along the line of more compatibility and fewer instances of the hot keys not responding. There have also been improvements to LookIt, including the ability to call an editor from LookIt. The upgrade price is $10. Send us your original disk and $10 (plus shipping? Tomas? :^). John ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 4 Sun Dec 05, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 15:20 EST I like the idea of incorporating Mouse-Ka-Mania shapes into Warp 9! I've been using Mouse Matz, which gives a Geneva-like 3D mouse pointer, and I really like it. But naturally, I'd like to have more to choose from. Especially if they were _randomized_. ;^) __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 5 Mon Dec 06, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 04:34 EST Whuh? Oh, Tomas here, you caught me napping. :^) Hey, it's my day off. Shipping? Funny you should ask. The last time we talked about disk-only updates, we were shipping them for free. Since that time, we've switched to Postal Equipment Resistant Packaging (PERP). Any disk not protected by a manual is shipped in a Jiffy bag at a staggering cost. Well, I've been in touch with the entire shipping dept. and he assures me this new shipping procedure is necessary to control stress levels at the warehouse and has significantly reduced the incidence of damaged shipments. So, to answer the question, the shipping policy is under review but will likely result in a minimum $3.00 S/H charge for all orders received after 12- 31-93. MCH, Your disk and ten and it's well worth it. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 6 Mon Dec 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:05 EST Will, The mouse shapes are incorporated into Geneva, which in turn is fully compatible with Warp 9. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 7 Tue Dec 07, 1993 J.WILSON103 [J_Dub] at 20:39 EST John, Is Icon Juggler Falcon compatible? I was following a thread in some topic, and decided to download it...I git bombs when loading the 'rsc' file on my Falcon..should I be? John Wilson ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 8 Wed Dec 08, 1993 M.POCHE [Mick] at 00:44 EST J-Dub, I'm no CodeHead, but if you're trying to load the Falcon's color icon RSC file, I'm not suprised you're getting bombs. :) Icon Juggler only handles the mono icons from programs such as DC Desktop, Neodesk, and TOS 2.0x and 3.0x. I believe someone out there does offer a color icon editor, but I can't think of who it is right now. - Mick ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 9 Wed Dec 08, 1993 W.ORTIZ [Will] at 19:28 EST Al, Thanks for the info on the mouse shapes. Great! I wasn't aware of that. Will W.ORTIZ ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 10 Fri Dec 10, 1993 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 06:39 EST J_Dub, I have loaded color icons into IconJuggler on my falcon. They do appear as plain mono icons in Juggler, however. I did not try any manipulations though. -Bob ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 11 Fri Dec 10, 1993 J.WILSON103 [J_Dub] at 08:12 EST >J_Dub, > >I have loaded color icons into IconJuggler on my falcon. They do appear as >plain mono icons in Juggler, however. I did not try any manipulations though. > Hmmm, well I get two bombs when loading the 'rsc' file. Guess it is time to strip down the system and try again. Thanks for the reply Bob. J_Dub ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 12 Wed Dec 22, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 00:11 EST Good news, you meeses fans! I've just uploaded a program that will allow you to change any of your system's mouse pointers (including the busy bee) to one of some 40 included shapes, or any shape created with Mouse-Ka-Mania! Not only does this open up a world of possibilities for mouse pointer shapes, but it also opens the door for _color_ shapes! Right now I have a red Star Trek NCC1701 mouse pointer and a blue 'Bob' for my busy bee. And, of course, you can always use Moving Pictures (as I am) to give you _random_ mouse pointer shapes! Now I still think it would be nice to have Warp 9 support the loading of mouse pointer shapes, especially so that you could have specific shapes for specific programs. But this program is a lot of fun. Filename is MSEMTZ10.ZIP and file number is 31172 (when it's validated). If anyone creates their own shapes with Mouse-Ka-Mania!, please upload them, so we can all share them! __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 13 Wed Dec 22, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 02:42 EST Thanks for the upload, Terry! More mouse shapes... what fun! Matt ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 14 Wed Dec 22, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 04:55 EST Random pointer shapes - that's even more perverted than random fonts! Can't wait to see that, Terry. gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 15 Thu Dec 23, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:22 EST Nah, random pointer shapes is not all that perverted. Mouse pointer shapes aren't nearly as important as the font. You want a pointer that is somewhat pointed (there are several built into Mouse Matz), but the busy bee can be _anything_. I've taken quite a liking to my random shapes. :^) There's a possibility we may even see support for animated shapes. That would be very neat indeed! __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 16 Fri Dec 24, 1993 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 18:50 EST Terry, Thanks for the notice that you posted here concerning your upload. I had overlooked your program somehow when I was reviewing the latest additions to the library and when I saw your notice, it prompted me to go back to the Aladdin "Choose Download/Browse" screen and look for it. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 17 Sat Dec 25, 1993 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 10:28 EST Merry Christmas & Happy New Year! >> Joe M << ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 18 Sat Dec 25, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 11:14 EST Just checking in on Christmas day to wish everyone a Merry Christmas. VVVVVVV, VVVVVVVV .VVV. ,VVVVVV, VVVVVVVV ,VVVVVV, VV. VV VV .VV VV .VV VV. VV '' VV VV' 'VV VVV. VV VVVVVVV' VVVVVV VVVVVVV VV VVVVVV VV VV VVVV. VV VV VV .VV VV VV ,, VV VV. .VV VV VVVV VV VVVVVVV.VV VV.'VVVVVV' VVVVVVVV 'VVVVVV' VV VVV VVVVVVVV .VVV. VVVVVVV, VVVVVVVV VV VV VV .VV VV. VV VV VV VV VV VVVVVV .VVVVVVV. VVVVVVV' VV VVVVVVVV VV .VV VV. VV VV. VV VV VV VVVVVVVV.VV VV.VV VV. VV VV VV /: ///:, //////:, .W. ////////:,. .WWW, ///////////::,. .WWWWWW, ////////////////::,,. .WWWWWWWWW,. ////////////////////::,,. .WWWWWWWWWWWWW,. ///////////////////////////:,. () WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW,.//////////////////////////////. / WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW:,.//////////////////////////. Y : WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW:,,.///////////////////. : / () WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW:,,.///////////.,,. Y / WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW:,///.:WWWWWW, :---- WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW,//,WWWWWWWWW: / WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW///:WWWWWWWWWW./ WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW'///:WWWWWWWWVVV. 'WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW'/////WWWWWWW//''V. 'WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW:,./.,WWWWWW// 'WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW//W, 'WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW//WWW, 'WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW//WWWWW: '''WWWWWWWWWWW/''WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW: ''''''' ,WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW' .,,::WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW' .,,:WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW:' ..,,,,,:WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW::'' 'WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW:''' ''WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW' '''WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW' '''WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW' '''WWWWWWWWW' ''' ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 19 Sat Dec 25, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 12:52 EST Great ASCII art Tomas! (and similar sentiments to you too!) In the words of Tiny Tim... (AKA Charles Dickens) " God bless us, every one" Matt ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 20 Sat Dec 25, 1993 S.GARRIGUS [Scotty] at 21:41 EST Tomas, That was excellent art, man! Very cool! Did you check out my Christmas MIDI file in the library? Merry Christmas! Scotty ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 21 Sun Dec 26, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:09 EST Matt, Thanks, I'm just a collector in this case although I sometimes do one of my own. Scotty, Yes, sure did. I saw FAITHFUL first in the Amiga RT. Nice arrangment. Shades of Mannheim Steamroller. Did you hit all the computer RTs? Happy Holidays. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 22 Sun Dec 26, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:37 EST Outstanding, Tomas! Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 23 Sun Dec 26, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 14:57 EST That was very nice Tomas, Merry Christmas to you and your family! John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 24 Sun Dec 26, 1993 R.IRBY3 [Roy] at 18:06 EST Hey, would that mousy thing happen to be Falcon compatible??? Or should I just try it and see? Roy. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 25 Mon Dec 27, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 01:21 EST Terry, Geneva let's you load in Custom Rodents. It uses Mouse-Ka-Mania data format too. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 26 Mon Dec 27, 1993 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 05:54 EST Hi - I just got the upgrade for Warp 9 and it's great. Only one strange thing. When I run Extendo View, the busy bee never turns into a pointer, although it acts just like one. In other words I point the bee at something and click and it acts just like the usual pointer. Is this usual? ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 27 Mon Dec 27, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:09 EST Roy, I don't know if Mouse Matz is Falcon-compatible. It's not a very big download, so I suggest you try it and let us know. -----8<----- Spud Boy, Yes, I know Geneva supports M-K-M data files, but not all of us have Geneva. :^) __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 28 Tue Dec 28, 1993 TQUINN [Terry~Sysop] at 11:39 EST The first 200 messages (less duplicates) in this topic have been archived and are available in Library 13 as file # 31271 (ASKHEAD7.ARC). This archive covers the period between September 4, 1993 and December 28, 1993. Terry Quinn ST RT Sysop and BBS Janitor ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 29 Tue Dec 28, 1993 S.GARRIGUS [Scotty] at 20:25 EST Tomas, Thanks! I'm glad you liked my arrangement of Faithful. Yep, I hit all the computer RT's as well as a few others. I like to keep up on lot's of info., I just don't participate everywhere. ;-) Happy Holidays! Scotty ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 30 Wed Dec 29, 1993 D.MCANDREW [Simulator] at 00:41 EST Ok, add another ....seedy rohm.... wannabe sob, sniffle, all's I got are these two CD's, soon to order the new Walnut Creek Atari PD CD (petey seedy ?). There must be more?! Oh, well I do have a couple Photo CDs. But it's not enough! I need more, Data! No, I mean, I need more data! 'Cuse me while I TOSs my Cookies. I know what would make me feel better, lots & lots of data... encyclopedia's, phone books, census, reference materials, medical, astronomy, fonts, music, CAD.... oh, crud, just out of reach. all that stuff's on the "other" platforms that shall remain nameless. Thought I'd add my zwei pfennig.. ...........Daniel (definitely) W. (warped) McAndrew, Falconian-At- Large ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 31 Wed Dec 29, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 01:16 EST Drums in the night, the scent of smoke in the dark, humid night. Torches in the distance and the sound of angry voices.... The natives are getting restless. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 32 Wed Dec 29, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:23 EST Hi Simulator. How's that again? ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 33 Wed Dec 29, 1993 M.SILVERSTE3 [SYNCHRON] at 11:26 EST Terry - I think the Changing Mouse Shapes (MSEMTZ10) has a small bug with TOS 1.0. When a new shape is installed, the new mouse cursor hangs on the desktop until a screen redraw. John E. has encountered this in early MIDI Spy versions. It may be easier for you to contact the author since its long distance. I like the program , though. Be in Synch with the Synchron from Camarillo, CA!! Datestamp: Wednesday, December 29, 1993 Timestamp: 8:17:56 am ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 34 Thu Dec 30, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 00:53 EST I'll pass along your possible bug report for Mouse Matz, Synchron. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 35 Thu Dec 30, 1993 J.SAFFER [JASON SAFFER] at 15:09 EST Terry, thanks for the Changing Mouse shapes program. I had the impression I could choose one shape for the pointer and a different one for the busy bee, but I'm noticing that I have to have the same one for both. Is this correct? Also, WordPerfect seems to switch the pointer back to the arrow, no matter what I've chosen it to be using Changing Mouse. It reverts back to my chosen shape when I exit WP. - Jason Saffer Hercules, California Wednesday, December 29, 1993 2:39 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 36 Thu Dec 30, 1993 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 17:48 EST Jason, The mouse pointer in WP is configurable. So it sets the shape when you enter it. If you want to change it, you may edit it to whatever shape you like by starting the program with the WPSTART program set to change settings, and select the correct options from the lists (please don't ask me which numbers as I NEVER use that feature). ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 37 Thu Dec 30, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 22:39 EST Jason, Mouse Matz allows you to change _any_ of your mouse shapes (such as the pointer, busy bee, drag hand, etc.), but you have to create a separate program for each shape. I'm only changing two, so I have one program to change the arrow and another to change the busy bee. I don't have Word Perfect, so I can't comment on what it's doing, but Ron's explanation certainly makes sense. __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 38 Thu Dec 30, 1993 D.MCANDREW [Simulator] at 23:11 EST To: MUSE [Thomas] correction:Tomas Hello. (I don't frequent the BBS much as an 'active' participant..) Thought I'd spontaneously add my two cents regarding my desires for more participation involving the various data (& whatnot) on CD-ROMs. Usually I just r ead the compilations of a topic when they've been archived. That's what happened here. Anyway, due to prior message threads I've seen... I thought it might be nice to let CodeHead Technologies know that there is at least] ONE more person definitely interested in further access to these deca-mega wonders. I often look at the adds in the back & throughout Computer Shopper and would love to buy some more CD-ROMs, but hold back due to the expense (I usually buy a lot) and unfamiliarity of data type accesses on these hummers. (Hope that explains my prior ramblings.) Nice to chat with you. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 39 Fri Dec 31, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 06:06 EST Simulator, Howdy do. And welcome to CAT 32. You can certainly be spontaneous here in this topic. I logged on from the roof of my house one night not so long ago just to complain about the visibility. You must be referring to earlier messages about a CD ROM project that CodeHead was toying with. The problem is we're all in a wierd situation market-wise right now. It's hard to tell where to direct your energies and money these days. Whatever project the lads may have been working on, it's not at the top of the list currently. Thanks for stopping by. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 40 Fri Dec 31, 1993 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:48 EST Yes, WordPerfect has its own ideas about what a mouse pointer should look like. :) Even more interesting, I find that in PageStream, it's possible to move the mouse across the screen at a certain constant speed so that it looks like the familiar arrow, but when at rest it's the Mouse Matz pointer. Kind of a ghostly effect. Maybe we need a topic for Mouse Matz, so the CodeHeads can have this one back? :) gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 41 Fri Dec 31, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 18:39 EST Simulator, A large number of the available CDs for PCs can be accessed directly on the Atari, just like any other disk. This includes vast collections of GIF, IMG, EPS, other graphic files and text files. The project we originally began was geared solely toward accessing the Microsoft Bookshelf CD. Now, years later, that one CD is quite dated and irrelevant. I'm not sure there's a niche for CodeHead in Atari CD support, but if we find one we'll pursue it. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 42 Fri Dec 31, 1993 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 19:17 EST HAPPY NEW YEAR, Codeheads! (and all Codehead-ers, too!) Matt ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 43 Fri Dec 31, 1993 D.MCANDREW [Simulator] at 21:09 EST To: Muse & John E. Oh, I quite understand... but thought it might just be worth it to speak up. Who knows, perhaps enough will come about one day? Besides, I have been learning there are a number of discs that can be of use (GIFs and such)... I just yearn for others that most likely use stored search engines on proprietary-packed data, perhaps encyclopedias & other reference data. Just like a little kid, I guess, I just want too doggone much... Thanks, guys. I will be floating around. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 44 Sat Jan 01, 1994 R.IRBY3 [Roy] at 13:57 EST Well, I dl'ed Mouse Matz...It seems to work fine on the Falcon, but I keep getting a Tos Error 10 when I try to load a MKM DAT file. The internal mouse shapes work great tho. Roy. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 45 Sat Jan 01, 1994 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 14:30 EST I'll pass along your Mouse Matz report, Roy. BTW, does Mouse-Ka-Mania work on your Falcon? __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 46 Sun Jan 02, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 12:26 EST John...... This is in reference to the order of use of your multiple platforms that I was aking about in the Warp9 topic. The reason for my interest is that I may be forced into switching platforms and I'm still trying to work out the options. We've been using 1040's for 7 years at my College in London, Ontario, Canada, however it may now be necessary to change things. We teach Sound Recording and MIDI. We're about to invest heavily in Hard Disk Editing and it will be either Mac or IBM. The problem with ATARI in my area is a severe lack of dealer support, parts, and service. And I mean severe. Things may be significantly different in California where Atari is located, but here the situation is critical. In most of our professional studios, and from many discussions with local musicians and producers etc....the Mac is the winner hands down. The problem with the Mac is the price for power (at least in Canada). I was amazed by Charles' comment about the cost of a Quadra in California. That package would be $5000 CDN. Anyway, dollar for dollar, we won't invest in the Falcon, (can't get them easily here anyway), and I was sort of curious about your opinions regarding the MAC and IBM platforms regarding Sequencing and HD editing software. I value the CODEHEAD opinion in highest regard. I'm sure however, that I will continue to use my MEGASTE and MEGA4 with T16 for many years to come. They still serve me well. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 47 Sun Jan 02, 1994 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 14:13 EST Don, For MIDI use, I'd have to say Macintosh, hands down. I've been using the latest version of the Vision sequencer recently, and it's an amazing piece of software, especially when combined with SoundTools. Here in Los Angeles, the most popular machine for music is the Mac, by far. I do occasionally see Atari setups in studios, but I've never seen an IBM/clone. I _have_ seen lots of PCs used for automated mixing consoles and such, but for generating and controlling music it's a Macintosh world. I haven't heard of a direct-to-disk recording system yet for the Mac that takes advantage of the DSP in the new AV models, but I'm sure it's on the way. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 48 Sun Jan 02, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 16:25 EST Don, I'd go with a Mac; much easier to set up and use in the long run. I wonder if you guys could just send someone down to pick up a bunch of Quadras in the states? You'd pay a duty, but if the difference is $3000 or so, why not just do that? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 49 Sun Jan 02, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:23 EST Al, Because of our dollar and taxes things are about 45 percent more in Canada. Bying in the States is sometimes cheaper but the hastle and/or lack of loacl support might not be worth it depending on the individual. For a school, I would think a local dealer and technician would be a serious consideration. Macs _are_ very expensive though. John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 50 Sun Jan 02, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 23:11 EST Macs are expensive _compared to what_? I should turn this into a macro. Find the software yu want to run and buy the _system_ that runs it. If your decisions aren't software based you're asking for disappointment. I'm _not_ referring to anybody posting on GEnie but a lot of people's software choice is what software they can copy from their friends. That's why a lot of people buy DOS boxes. So it goes. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 51 Mon Jan 03, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 12:59 EST CHARLES....... Yup, that's pretty well the way I've figured things as well. From my market survey in this area, the results are exactly the way you've stated. Studios are using Mac's and mostly SOUNDTOOLS with a few PROTOOLS thrown in here and there. I mean for the cost, it's hard to beat SOUNDTOOLS. Sequencing is a bit of a dilemma. I must choose one package for the College. From my discussions with local musicians and user's etc it's pretty much spread around based on personal preferences. The big choices are, VISION, PERFORMER, CUEBASE, NOTATOR LOGIC. All users have a pretty strong argument for the software of their choice which makes my decision difficult. One very important item is the use of the sequencer for video post. It must have a good hit list interface as we will not be using ProTools for this work initially. The plan is to go with Sonic Solutions in a few years if they're still as good then as they are now. We will be using a Kurzweil K2000R for sampling and the sequencer software for kicking the sfx on time with the picture. As you can see, I need one platform for both sequencing and HD editing. I've pretty much decided (99.9%) on the Mac now. I'm very interested in the Power PC chip, and I must make sure that the Mac's I buy are upwardly expandable for this chip. Local dealers tell me that things are really weird in Mac world regarding model changes and pricing etc. I'm looking to buy around April 15th. I'm thinking of full blown Quadras (A/V) at the moment, someone mentioned a Quadra 1000 coming soon ???? As you mentioned, I'm sure software for the DSP chip will be around soon. As far as pricing goes it's hard to look at your prices compared to ours. I will be getting quotes from anybody and everybody who wants in on this deal, (probably 7 systems to start), and I'll check out some US vendors. I'm not all that familiar with the Mac. Is there software accelerators like Warp9 available and are there hardware accelerators as well. For the personal computer in my office I've got carte blanche and I'm a power freak. I want the fastest thing I can get. Any suggestions?? I'm also very interested in Quicktime and all the digital video applications for the Mac as well so I can prepare the video projects for my curriculum. Anyway I'm in the process of doing all the research now, any suggestions from the Codeheads and anyone else about this matter will be greatly appreciated. Is this an OK RT for this discussion or is somewhere else better (SYSOP's ???) Al....... It's difficult for the College to work that way. Many US dealers only warranty hardware out of their location which makes exchanges and repair a pain in the buttski. It's much better for us to buy locally (or semi locally) so service is quick. See Flat....... I definitly agree ! Thanks everyone for your comments....Mr. DON....MIA Fanshawe College. I will miss my ATARI though......... ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 52 Mon Jan 03, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 22:34 EST By April Apple should have released a zillion new computers. It's nearly impossible to keep up with them. You shouldn't even try. You buy the computer that does what you want to do _now_. Apple reps told me that the Quadra style_s_ will be upgradeable to PowerPC. They told me this at a film industry trade show so you can't always believe what's said. I read recently that a third party will release PPC upgrade boards for other styles. Prices should drop within the next two months as the new systems hit the streets. Apple usually makes their major announcement during the Superbowl. (Btw, I did a little work on Bud Bowl) ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 53 Mon Jan 03, 1994 R.MORROW10 [Bob M.] at 23:55 EST >you guys could just send someone down to pick up a bunch of Quadras in the >states? You'd pay a duty, but if the difference is $3000 or so, why not just >do that? The Canadian Dep't of Communications (their FCC) might have something to say about this. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 54 Tue Jan 04, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 01:47 EST Bob M.: >The Canadian Dep't of Communications (their FCC) might have >something to say about this. Or, more importantly, trying to get Apple Canada to service computers bought outside of Canada. They don't honour warranty service unless it was purchased in Canada. Rob ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 55 Tue Jan 04, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:47 EST K.ESTES - According to Apple, there will be PPC logic board upgrades for the following: Quadra 840av 660av 650 610 Centris 660av 650 610 Mac IIvx IIvi Performa 600 Workgroup server 60 80 95 and that a lower cost processor-only upgrade card will be available for the following: Quadra 950 900 800 700 650 610 Centris 650 610 Upgrade options will range in price from $700-$2000. There will also be PPC upgrades from third parties such as Daystar Digital, who is planning the same processor-only upgrades. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 56 Tue Jan 04, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 09:17 EST Don, Don't take the fact that I listed my Mac below the PC in frequency of use as an indicator of my opinion about its power. As Charles mentioned, it is the best machine for _professional_ audio and MIDI. Charles is our Mac person. I don't have time to use the Mac as much as I'd like, so it doesn't get as much use as my 486. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 57 Tue Jan 04, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 15:02 EST There's a _slight_ problem in semantics here. The "Centris" line no longer exists. It's been abosrbed into the Quadra line--more or less. There are still pre-Quadra Centri around but there are certain case styles that the rep told me were "definitely" (whatever that means when it comes from a computer rep) scheduled for the PP upgrade were the Quadras, Centris 610 case, and the Quadra 650 case. This was last summer and I'm positive things have changed since then. (I don't believe things until I can _walk_ in and buy them at a store. Even with things Macintosh.) ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 58 Tue Jan 04, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 15:28 EST K.ESTES...... Yes my sources have said exactly the same thing. Superbowl is when the announcements happen April is when there here. And I also know I can wait forever for the next up and comming machine. We will buy in and around the end of April so I should be able to get the latest and greatest .... whatever they decide to call it.... how about "the Cheetah 9000" !!! (oops there we go with animals again) Thanks for the comments. Rob..... Yes, that's the biggest problem I face with buying hardware out of the country. I once bought some Panasonic 3700 DAT's from the States and Panasonic Canada would service then but not under warranty. Warranty repairs would have had to be sent back to the country of purchase. Based on that experience, I'm almost totally reluctant to buy hardware from the States. John E......... Understood. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 59 Tue Jan 04, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 15:39 EST Ken..... Yes I was aware of the Centris absorbtion into the Quadra. Confusing isn't it. One great thing about the Atari 1040 was that is stayed (more or less) the same for several years. That, in a way, was very helpfull in my situation. Of course one could argue that "staying the same" is the same as "staying behind" and maybe that is what indeed hasM happened. Well we are about to move onward and upward and Atari isn't in the picture. Are you yourself a Mac user ?? >> I don't believe things until I can_walk_in and buy them at a >> store. Even with things Macintosh. A classic philosophy I thought we all shared ???? Charles...... Have you "sooped" up your Quadra at all, or is it generic ?? Have you looked at the other sequencer packages I mentioned, by chance for any comments?? ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 60 Tue Jan 04, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 19:58 EST With all my complaining about the Atari I still use it more than the Mac. BUt there are some thing I just can't do or can't do easily on the Atari. These are some of the things that can make _me_ money so I get frustrated. I especially get upset when someone starts saying the Atari is better than everything else. I haven't believed that since I put my 520 ST next to a Mac SL, a Kaypro Lunchbox, and an Amiga back in December of '85. They all had their pros and cons. The ST definitely _was_ the least complicated to set up. And it was the only color system (besides the Amiga) in the bunch (even though it's monochrome). And it was the least expensive. (Although I wished I'd waited until Easter when the 1040 was released and they cut the price on the 520's.) But then the Expansion Chassis that was announced in BYTE never materialized, ditto the AMY chip, and the CD ROM that was shown at a trade show. Okay, the EXPANSION CHASSIS and the AMY chip weren't officially announced. I know how _that_ game is played now. Puffery in a magazine doesn't count as an announcement. I realized that Atari computer hobbyists see new computers as upgrades to their existing systems. I'm not sure that the rest of the world sees new models in exactly the same way. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 61 Tue Jan 04, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 20:22 EST MR.DON: Being a professional musician, and having worked in the retail end of the business as well, I would NEVER buy an electronic instrument outside the country, unless I could fix it myself! I've seen too many instances where people would come into the store, check a unit out, walk away saying they were going to get it in Buffalo (I'm in Toronto), then come back 2 months later wanting warranty service... sorry! ;^) Of course, they wouldn't listen when I tried to warn them, all they saw was the immediate savings... then, after they'd spent the balance and MORE for shipping and insurance, they'd vow never to do it again. If only people would listen the first time.. Rob ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 62 Tue Jan 04, 1994 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 20:38 EST Don, My Centris 650 isn't souped-up at all, except for the addition of 512K VRAM to get 16-bit color. One of the reasons I bought the Centris was because Apple promised there would be a PowerPC upgrade path. It looks like they'll be keeping that promise, and for a very reasonable price too. The only sequencer package I have any experience with is Studio Vision; I haven't worked with the others you mentioned. I really like Vision, though, and have been considering buying it for myself. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 63 Tue Jan 04, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 23:03 EST >>cough<< The reason to choose the 650 over the 610 (or now Quadra 605) is that the 650 offered 3 [full sized] nubus slots. (Ignoring the faster CPU for the time being.) OKay, It's a new year and time for me to nag the Codeheads for a disk librarian program/DA for the ST. It needs tab/comma delimited output so you can import the files into other databases... ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 64 Wed Jan 05, 1994 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 00:28 EST My last visit to a 'Mac store' gave me the impression that Apple is out to confuse its customers with a totally unconnected, and illogical naming convention. It seems that numbers, and styles have no relation to numbers, or to power/performance. Just a 'hodge-podge' of names/numbers, without regard to order. VERY confusing. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 65 Wed Jan 05, 1994 DAEDWARDS [Warrl] at 00:37 EST Mr.Don: >A classic philosophy I thought we all shared???? Veteran Atari-watchers like us, certainly should... ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 66 Wed Jan 05, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 04:20 EST Wrong, Ron. Apple is out to sell computers. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 67 Wed Jan 05, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 05:18 EST K.ESTES - The info I posted came from Apple Computer, dated 1/3/94. They probably just listed the identical Quadra and Centris models for those too ignorant to know (through no fault of their own). ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 68 Wed Jan 05, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:27 EST You are better informed than I, DrHfuhrhurr! ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 69 Wed Jan 05, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:40 EST Ron, That's what Apple is, in fact, doing. There is no logic to the model system any longer. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 70 Wed Jan 05, 1994 R.IRBY3 [Roy] at 18:30 EST __ /erry, I can load and run Mouse-ka-Mania on the Falcon, but I get a load of trash on the screen. It doesnt seem to work well at all. And to correct a previous message of mine, the error I get when trying to load a DAT file into Mouse Matz is simply Error 10, not TOS Error 10 as I stated earlier. Roy. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 71 Wed Jan 05, 1994 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 20:33 EST Mouse-Ka-Mania should work fine in any of the Falcon's "ST Compatible" modes. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 72 Wed Jan 05, 1994 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:23 EST Kenne, I am sure you are right, but they seem determined to overload any rational approach to comparing one system with another by a random numbering scheme, and a multiplicity of models that would do a car manufacturer proud. Remember when a Mac, was just a MAC? Grin. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 73 Wed Jan 05, 1994 DAEDWARDS [Warrl] at 23:57 EST Ron Hunter: >It seems that numbers, and styles have no relation to numbers, or >to power/performance. That's normal. My employer got an IBM 3083 mainframe, then upgraded to a 3081 (lower number -> more power), and later upgraded to a 3084 (higher number -> more power). ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 74 Thu Jan 06, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 02:20 EST It's easy to compare Macs. There's a chart! It's easier to compare Ataris-- there's basically six (seven if you count the Hard driveless 1 meg MSTE). ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 75 Thu Jan 06, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 04:50 EST K.ESTES - Well, I have two brains, you know! 11 machines. That really isn't as bad as I thought, making it about 1.1 machines a year. (although I was told after one of my many complaining posts that the 260 is actually a 520 under another name) Darn it! Now I have to take back ever mean thing I said. I take it back. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 78 Thu Jan 06, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:24 EST Shouldn't the list of different Atari computer models that went from 7 to 11, be of Atari computers that are available from Atari? .......that makes it... 1 ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 79 Thu Jan 06, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 18:40 EST Hey! I'm tryin' to mend fences here. Do you mind? ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 80 Thu Jan 06, 1994 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 23:21 EST Yeah, but in the past, Apple's model numbers had some kind of logic. Now, you can't even tell what processor is in a model without reading the spec sheet. Confusing. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 81 Fri Jan 07, 1994 J.HUGHES23 [Jack ] at 00:12 EST Could someone please tell me what the keyord or file number is for Mouse-ka- Mania as refered to in the docs for Mouse Matz. It was supposed to be included per the docs, but not in my copy. Thanks [( ) Jack ( )] ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 82 Fri Jan 07, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 01:21 EST MR.DON: London? I take it you're at Fanshawe College, then? Hmmm... the band I used to play for had a couple of 'alumni' from Fanshawe. I may take you up on that offer... I hear the studios there are pretty fantastic. Is Jack Richardson still on staff there? (Of course, if you're NOT at Fanshawe, consider ME embarrassed! ) Rob ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 83 Fri Jan 07, 1994 STEVE-J [DrHfuhruhurr] at 07:38 EST J.BRENNER1 - Since Atari DOES have some more TT030s in production, that would make 2. Plus Atari's still selling 520STfm machines in Europe and even XL/XE machines in the Middle East. NTACTONE - No kidding! And in some cases, new processors were put into machines with no change to the model number. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 84 Fri Jan 07, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 14:09 EST I _love_ silliness, but this is getting out of control. You're actually complaining because Apple _makes_ to many models, sells to many machines, and doesn't correlate the machines' capabilities with the model number. I thought of something else I'd like the Codeheads to make. An ASSIGN.SYS creator for SPEEDOGDOS. Somebody will say you don't need an ASSIGN.SYS creator. And I say SPOIL ME! If you want to add any of the hundreds of bitmapped fonts you have to edit that cryptic ASSIGN.SYS file. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 85 Fri Jan 07, 1994 D.GEPPERT [MR.DON] at 16:25 EST Rob..... Yes Fanshawe College is correct and Music Industry Arts is the program. Yes the studios are fantastic, I put them together myself (pat, pat on the back...). Yes Jack (Guess Who) Richardson is still here however I keep telling him he's too old for this kind of thing. Come and visit, call me first to make sure the particular day is OK. Fridays are always best as we have no classes in the Studios then. Weekends are bad, studios are busy 24 hrs a day. Number to my office and 24 hr Voice Mail is 519-452-4181. Whos were the MIA "alumni" you were referring to?? Audios........Mr. Don ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 86 Fri Jan 07, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 20:59 EST MOUSE_KA.ZIP, file 28244. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 87 Fri Jan 07, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:53 EST Kenne, An assign.sys creator for Speedo? Isn't that what the OUTLINE prg/acc does? The assign.sys merely tells where the fonts are, and the extend.sys has all the font and cache info. You never need to manually edit as assign.sys under Speedo. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 88 Fri Jan 07, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 23:55 EST Mr. Don: I've taken this to Email, as I think we've been ignoring the topic for a while! See you there! Rob CodeHeads: You can have your topic back now... THANKS! ;^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 89 Sat Jan 08, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:24 EST -= - __@~ ~ - - -- = - - - --__/ o\__ -= --___o\__ -- `--O----O-' - -- - = `-o---o-' ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 90 Sat Jan 08, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 01:59 EST I don't think so, Al. There are NO problems with SpeedoGDOS fonts, but the second you add a bitmapped font life gets more interesting than I like it. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 91 Sat Jan 08, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 03:16 EST Steve J, Atari has announced twice this year that TT's were back in production. I will believe it when I see a dealer state that he has received a batch of the newly manufactured machines. As for 520's being sold. Ok, let's put that state of the art 1985 design back on the list. That makes it 2. John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 92 Sat Jan 08, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:49 EST Tomas, Wow, I've never actually _seen_ a topic cop before! :) ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 93 Sat Jan 08, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 08:27 EST Ken Estes, You need to use the old FSM font ACC or CPX to add or change bit-mapped fonts in the ASSIGN.SYS file. Just remember you still have to use the OUTLINE.ACC for Speedo. Bob ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 94 Sat Jan 08, 1994 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 10:04 EST And don't forget you have to allocate buffer space for the bit-mapped fonts also. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 95 Sat Jan 08, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 15:31 EST Heck guys, you shouldn't need to worry about editing ASSIGN.SYS files at all any more. According to Donavan Vicha's Top Ten List in the December ST Informer in reference to Atari Works, "Atari has at long last put the GDOS monster to rest." Is it waking up again? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 96 Sat Jan 08, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 18:50 EST I actually _did_ read the Speedo manual. Nothing is said of the FONTGDOS .ACC and bitmapped fonts. Personally, I think they're ugly, but they're nice in Stalker since non-monospaced fonts are ignored in that program. Gdos is Apple's revenge on Atari. Always has been and it seems it'll be that way until they pry the last dead ST/TT/Falcon from Ron's fingers... ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 97 Sat Jan 08, 1994 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 20:40 EST Great graphic of the topic cops, Tomas! I hope you don't mind that I'm stealing it for the AtariNet echoes that I moderate. :^) ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 98 Sat Jan 08, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 22:53 EST OKay, here's my last little whine... Ummmm.... what happened to Aladdin Extraxtor? ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 99 Sun Jan 09, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:29 EST Was he driving a Ford? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 100 Sun Jan 09, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 10:40 EST Greetings, Have you heard about the ST CD-ROM drivers just released by Anodyne Software ? It's called ExtenDOS. Here's the product announcement: Atari-ST RoundTable Category 4, Topic 19 Message 45 Sun Jan 02, 1994 R.BURROWS1 [Roger@Anodyn] at 14:07 EST Anodyne Software announces: ExtenDOS: CD Extensions for TOS ------------------------------- Would you like to join the CD-ROM revolution but: . couldn't get Atari's MetaDOS(tm) package to work properly . don't want the complication and overhead of running MultiTOS(tm) just to get CD-ROM support ? ExtenDOS is the answer! It allows you to access any ISO9660 or High Sierra format CD-ROM as if it were a removable hard disk. You can switch between supported disk formats without a reboot, access files of any size, and it even provides a builtin configurable cache facility to speed up data accesses. ExtenDOS CD Extensions requires a SCSI CD-ROM drive connected to a SCSI port directly, or to an ACSI port via an ICD host adapter. It has been validated on the ST, the MegaSTe, and the TT, with various models of CD-ROM drive. Additional hardware support is currently under development; please contact us at the address below if you require support for equipment not specified above. ExtenDOS is available immediately at only $19.95 (including shipping & handling) from: Anodyne Software 6 Cobbler Court Ottawa Ontario K1V 0B8 CANADA. Please make your payment by cheque or money order, in US$ for shipping to the U.S.A., in Canadian$ for shipping within Canada. Ontario residents please add 8% sales tax. ---------- Now for the Codeheads question: Now that there's a reasonably priced, supported, CD-ROM driver for "the rest of us", would you please consider porting the front-end software for an encyclopedia or similar application to the Atari ST ? ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 101 Sun Jan 09, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:34 EST Eeeeeeeyuck. Bitmapped fonts in Speedo? Sure, it handles them. But why bother? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 102 Sun Jan 09, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 14:57 EST >category 32, Topic 11 >Message 101 Sun Jan 09, 1994 >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:34 EST > >Eeeeeeeyuck. Bitmapped fonts in Speedo? Sure, it handles them. But why bother? 1) I already own the font. 2) Monospaced fonts work with Stalker ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 103 Sun Jan 09, 1994 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 15:46 EST Al, Because some fine programs, such as STalker were written before Speedo, and/or support ONLY bit-mapped, monospaced, fonts.. For one. Another is that Speedo uses TONS of ram, while the old GDOS, ugly as it is, isn't quite so liberal with a finite resource. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 104 Sun Jan 09, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 16:06 EST Al, > >Eeeeeeeyuck. Bitmapped fonts in Speedo? Sure, it handles them. But >why bother? > I use them with STalker - only! Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 1:54 PM Mountain Time Sunday, January 9, 1994 ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 105 Sun Jan 09, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 23:51 EST Kenne, Actually nothing much is said of anything in Atari's Speedo manual. That's nothing. Have you read the MultiTos manual? Maybe Atari is waiting to sell computers until they can get 'Bob Brodie's Psychic Friends' network online so they can charge $5 a minute to channel Atari programmers with instructions that should have been in the manuals. Bob ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 106 Mon Jan 10, 1994 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 00:43 EST In my opinion, that MultiTOS "manual" is absolutely disgraceful, and is a very good indicator of the kind of care that went into the whole project. - Charles @ CodeHead Tech ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 107 Mon Jan 10, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 03:56 EST I have a MSTE4. I didn't even think about MTOS, well I did _think_ about it but not long or often. I played with it when the first Falcon reached The Computer Network, and it was pretty slow. I was okay on a TT but I don't own a TT. I'd have to buy a TT _and_ a new monitor but frankly I'm trying to diversify the types of platforms I own. I don't ever plan to put all of my application eggs into any one platform basket again. Anyway, no MTOS manual. No MTOS. I did buy Geneva at The Glendale Show but with 4 megs of ram and a plain ol' 68000 and software not entirely friendly to the concept I don't use it much even though it seems to be a great little program (and a lot more fun to use if Geneva savvy Hotwire is ever released ). Besides, I don't read manuals--I have an Atari. The worlds easiet to use computer.... ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 108 Mon Jan 10, 1994 M.POCHE [Mick] at 05:26 EST Kenne@SFRT - I know this is off topic, but if you own Geneva, you really owe it to yourself to give another chance. (starting to sound like Al here) I'd say 90% of the applications I have tried with it work (although some must be set to single- tasking). Hopefully with MultiTOS and Geneva now becoming more popular, programmers will write their new (and upgrade their older) software to be multitasking aware. I have the same system you have, and have found Geneva to be the best 'upgrade' to my system I've made since going to 4 megs. And I agree, Geneva would be even better with a multitasking version of HotWire! Right CodeHeads? (Look Brian..... another pathetic attempt to stay on topic!) - Mick P.S. Read the manual. It's excellent! ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 109 Mon Jan 10, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 09:08 EST Lee, Thanks for posting the information about the CD-ROM driver. Yes, we'll consider writing a front-end for an encylopedia. But we'll need to see some kind of indication that Atari computers are being made and sold in greater numbers before we'll look at it seriously. If there were even one computer sold for every Atari user who moves on, we'd know that the market was remaining at its current small size instead of miniaturizing further. It might be too much to ask that Atari would actually _expand_ the size of its market, but it's already way too small to support the development and release of any new product. I hope this news doesn't come as a shock to anyone. It certainly shouldn't. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 110 Mon Jan 10, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:22 EST Kenne and others, The small system font works in STalker, too. Are you guys running in ST Medium? I suppose that would make it vital to be able to use one of the squeezed GDOS fonts. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 111 Mon Jan 10, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:59 EST Kenne, You shjould look at the Geneva manual, though. I have a proprietary interest. :) G only takes up 150-170K of your 4 megs of RAM, BTW. John, I supose this is a case of the glass being either half-empty or half-full, so don't take this the wrong way. But anyone who follows the fortunes of such orphaned computers as the Adam, the Sinclair and (heavens!) the Atari XL/XE models knows that new software appears al the time. Here we have computers that are still being sold new (Falcons, and maybe TTs again, if Atari isn't lying to us), that are still being enjoyed and used by the hundreds of thousands world-wide, and that are powerful enough and flexible enough to make use of the latest peripherals. This suggests to me that a market exists for the right kind of software, and a CD-ROM front-end could hardly be closer to the definition of "right kind." Yes? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 112 Mon Jan 10, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:15 EST Bosem, what's the deal on teh psychic friend? ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 113 Mon Jan 10, 1994 NTACTONE [Ron Hunter] at 20:13 EST In order for a new product to be viable, it would have to apply to the widest possible user base. There are about 160 ST users in the Ft. Worth area (we know this because they patronize the local dealer). I would expect that similar numbers would be found in most areas, in short, a LOT more market than it would seem, but you can't make a profit selling something to only 10% of such a small market, and I doubt you would find 10% of ST users who would buy CDROMS. I certainly wouldn't. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 114 Mon Jan 10, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 20:51 EST I run in ST High, Al. Always have. Always will. I suppose an operating system that was transparent to rez changes and a "cheap" multi-rez monitor would have changed my habits but it's far, far too late for that. Geneva is a fine program. I haven't said ANYTHIGNG bad about it. The odds against MOST software being rewritten to be Geneva savvy are small. However most of the software I use consistently is still supported and maintained. The _simple_ truth is that I don't have enough memory to use Geneva (or Multitos) effectively. I _can_ use it to show how cool it is. But I can't load Calamus SL, Wordperfect, and Megapaint at the same time. Heck! I can barely load Calamus without stripping my system. Stalker, Steno, Edhak, Multidesk Deluxe (with assorted .ACC's), Hotwire, SpeedoGDOS, Serialfix,HSFix, Auxinit,Xcontrol, FaxManager, Spelling Sentry, Warp 9.... And the MSTE is _only_ a 16Mhz 68000. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 115 Mon Jan 10, 1994 D.MCANDREW [Simulator] at 22:37 EST Sniff, sniff, sniff,... aaaahhh. I smell seedy roms.... I heard That! ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 116 Tue Jan 11, 1994 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 03:36 EST CodeHeads: I got a tip that maybe you folks might sell software by ST Club or FaST Club (FaST Club maybe their new name). I'm looking for a program that I beleive they made called PixArt. Would you know of it? David Farrington <>< ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 117 Tue Jan 11, 1994 T.DUNBAR2 [Tommy] at 03:52 EST ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 118 Tue Jan 11, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 05:44 EST Al, Let me try to think this through with you. Out of the thousands of CD-ROMs available for PCs, there are probably only a handful of encyclopedia disks. If we were to pick one, which one do you think we should bet our farm on? Or should we support them all? Or did you think that one front-end would work for all of the encyclopedias? To make our package the most enticing, we'd want to support one of the latest ones that includes graphics and sound. With our current work load to support our existing products, I'd estimate this to be about a year's work. There are numerous factors to consider. It wouldn't make sense to require a Falcon, or even a TT, since the greatest number of Atari users have older machines. That means we'd have to write a sound driver for each of the three sound systems. Then there are all of the different resolutions to consider. A product like this is going to have a small enough market already without limiting it to specific machines or resolutions. The product will require an Atari computer, a CD-ROM driver, 3rd-party CD-ROM drivers, a CD-ROM disk from a PC company, and our front end. Do you suppose that we might be able to find investors that would put up about $50,000 to fund a project like this? I wonder what kind of prospects we'd have for sales of a front-end available a year from now for _today's_ best encyclopedia. I really doubt that we could sell more than 100 pieces. I know that you think my estimates are overly pessimistic. But sitting at this desk, listening to the frequency of the phone calls, seeing the volume of orders, and hearing nothing indicating any action from Atari, might give me a different perspective than those who just "want" us to do it. If I had better judgment, I'd just ignore these requests and not respond. People don't want to hear my version of reality. John P.S. "Hundreds of thousands world-wide" may have been an accurate estimate of Atari users in the past, but not today. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 119 Tue Jan 11, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 06:18 EST David, The only FaST Club software we carry is Imagecopy 2. I don't know anything about PixArt. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 120 Tue Jan 11, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:52 EST Kenne, You'll be interested in reading Secrets of Geneva, coming to a service near you soon. You'll find ways to use Geneva with your system and your setup. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 121 Tue Jan 11, 1994 L.W.BENJAMIN [Koloth] at 18:02 EST John, Thank you for your candid response. I too hope that Atari can turn it around. Yeah, what Al said too. I wish I could do more to make such a project financially viable. Take Care, Lee B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 122 Tue Jan 11, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:54 EST John, First, I'm not sure whether you are mixing up emotion with logic. Whether people want to hear your version (or my version, or any version) of the situation has no bearing on what that situation it. Second, I feel the same emotion, so I'm aiming this at the two of us. It's as frustrating at this end of the scale as it is on yours, so I am just as tempted as you are to look at the glass of water that is either half empty or half full and complain that, [A] It's half gone, darn it! and [B] Why doesn't someone pay attention to me when I tell everyone that we need more water! Well, ahem, the glass isn't going to get any more full, so we need to enjoy the refreshment that is still in front of us. As for a CD-ROM front-end program for the Atari, you are right. Who would want to expend $50,000 in resources for an application that was specific to one soon-to-be-out-of-date encyclopedia for the edification of 100 users? But I suspect a CD-ROM utility that was less specific would be a lot more saleable. If we lower our sights on this one, the target will be easier to hit. (End of sermon. Now you know why I turned to journalism from preaching. I get a better audience....) :) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 123 Tue Jan 11, 1994 D.MCANDREW [Simulator] at 20:07 EST Yes, I admit it. I, too, suffer from wishful thinking. Although I understand & agree with John's upfront analysis, I still wish it could be different. Oh, well. I can at least be happy with the CD-ROMs that I can find of use such as fonts, pictures (GIFS & others). And I found out recently that census data is available in this format and in a form ready to use by dBase III (or compatibles). Now this could be intriguing (but $150 for one state per CD- ROM). ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 124 Tue Jan 11, 1994 B.SEMAAN [BOSEM] at 22:07 EST Flat, That was a joke. I guess you don't watch TV. Almost every night those lame infomercials by phoney psychic hotlines are on. Heck, even the standup comedians make fun of them on national TV. Bob ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 125 Tue Jan 11, 1994 M.STEFANI [MCH] at 22:43 EST John, I completely agree with you on the subject of an encyclopedia CD ROM disk (or any other, for that matter) for the Atari platform. No one in their right mind would even consider the notion of purchasing an Atari for using CD ROMs anyway. Well, I take that back, because I was stupid enough to buy a Falcon with that purpose (among others) in mind. Well, we all 'live-and-learn' hopefully, and I've replaced my Falcon with a Mac (a REAL multimedia machine). Now I'm in CD ROM 'heaven' both with the technology AND the hundreds of titles to choose from. IMHO, easily worth the price of admission all by itself! Still LOVE my ST, though... (even without CD ROMs) MCH ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 126 Tue Jan 11, 1994 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 23:30 EST Ron, I think the reason you'd be hard pressed to find 10% of Atari users buying CD ROM drives is that there are no software titiles available for them (the ol' 'Catch-22'!) With the announcement of the Walnut Creek PD CD and the rumors of the ALCO (Al Fasoldt's) CD I have found myself cruching the numbers and thinking of buying one. Imagine if some of the front ends were available to us, would you hesitate then? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 127 Tue Jan 11, 1994 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 23:37 EST I'm sure SECRETS OF GENEVA will be fantastic. I won't get excited until I get more memory. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 128 Wed Jan 12, 1994 M.RIVMAN1 [MATT] at 01:51 EST Al! (sorry topic cops and Codeheads... but...) The ALCO CD ??? C'mon fella, what gives? Anything you care to spill at this time??? Matt ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 129 Wed Jan 12, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 03:17 EST Bosem, you're right I don't watch TV. It broke about four years ago and I didnt' replace it. I thought Bob might have been told by a psychic that TT's were back in production. ;-) John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 130 Wed Jan 12, 1994 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 04:22 EST John: Could you share the address you have for Imagecopy 2? David <>< ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 131 Wed Jan 12, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 16:07 EST David, The address is: ST Club (or FaST Club) 2 Broadway Nottingham NG1 1PS England Phone: 011 44 602 410241 John ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 132 Wed Jan 12, 1994 R.COOPER2 [Rob] at 19:36 EST John: I read a post in another category that mentioned a 'new' address for the FaST Club... I assume you would know if that was the case, from your ties with the company, but just to make sure, are they still on Broadway? Just trying to clear my confused mind! ;^) Thanks! Rob ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 133 Wed Jan 12, 1994 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 23:20 EST Al, RE: ALCO -- Sorry, a small play on word there, couldn't resist! John ------------ Category 32, Topic 11 Message 134 Thu Jan 13, 1994 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 02:16 EST John: Thank you very much. :) David <>< ------------