========================================================================= (C) 1994 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 6 Fri Sep 07, 1990 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:06 CDT Sub: Commercial kidprgs by D.A. Brumleve This topic is intended for the discussion of kidprgs offered commercially. 201 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 1 Wed Sep 19, 1990 K.KRESSIN [Ken] at 07:10 CDT Dorothy, Did you annouce anything new at the Glendale show? Care to share it with us? How was the show? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 2 Wed Sep 19, 1990 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:01 CDT I enjoyed the show very much. I had intended to introduce a new program, Telegram (The Silly Song Player), but the airline (United, that's who!) lost my luggage, so these packages were not available until Sunday after my luggage was returned. I had packed the booth demo version in my purse, so I was able to display that, but the signs to ballyhoo this debut were in my suitcase... In any case, Telegram is a you-can't-do-that-in-software program that only kids will love. It has no more or less redeeming social value than MAD Magazine, and is likely to attract the same audience. Your role in the game is that of a delivery boy/girl. You are assigned to deliver singing telegrams to random addresses (coordinates) on the map of Littletown. The delivery vehicle is manipulated with the arrow keys. Upon successful identification of the correct address (you ring the doorbell, of course), the text of the singing telegram is displayed. As the music is played, the currently-sung syllable is highlighted in red for a "bouncing ball" effect. Kids really do sing along. More on it later. Someday I'll get a demo up here. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 3 Thu Nov 29, 1990 K.KRESSIN [Ken] at 19:05 CST Dorothy, Congratulations on the very positive review your programs received in ST Informer. I hope Santa is good to those girls and boys and to that little elf BRUMLEVE who is working so hard this Christmas season. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 4 Thu Nov 29, 1990 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 18:57 PST And thanks for uploading those European kiddie arcade games. Fly Robin Fly is really charming! And my kids like Rabbit Jump and the other Monkeys & Balloon clones too. How did you find those games? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 5 Thu Nov 29, 1990 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 22:39 CST My programs were recently the subject of a couple of articles in the German PD Journal. A reader had been working on translating my programs (with a disk-editor) and wrote to me for help. He turned out to be a really nice guy, Juergen Reichenwallner. He sent me his German versions of my programs and some others. I didn't know whether his were PD until this week, when I received a special package: a German hand-carved carosel as a Christmas gift! In an accompanying letter, he says that I may distribute the programs. We have now collaborated on a couple translations (ones he couldn't do without code or access to special graphics files). If you'd like to correspond with him, I'd be happy to send the address in GEMail. He is _not_ a programmer. He is an artist. He usually changes graphics from someone else's programs (like the Clowns and Balloons program by Frank Cohen, which has picture files which were designed to invite changes), but he also has the arcade creator with which he made ROBIN. Neat guy. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 6 Wed Dec 05, 1990 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 18:36 PST Dot, I was looking at a recent ad for Computer Games+ and saw a couple of titles in their educational section I'd never heard of before. One was FUN SCHOOL, which seemed to be available in different grade levels, and the other was READ AND PLAY. Do you know anything about these programs? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 8 Wed Dec 05, 1990 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:19 PST Thanks for the info Dot. By the way, I did order Learn to Read with Prof. It hasn't arrived yet though. I talked to a very nice gentleman on the phone in Chester, England who seemed quite pleased to be taking a California order! I'll let you know when I receive it. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 9 Fri Dec 07, 1990 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 19:55 PST Read and Play is incorrectly named in the Computer Games+ ad. Its really Learn To Read With Prof. I had the guy at Computer Games+ read me the box. Too bad, because I called them and asked for Learn To Read with Prof before I ordered it from England and they said they didn't have it, not realizing they really did. Their price is $39.95 so I probably paid more to get it from England. Oh well, the people in England were nice enough so if their program is worth the money I won't mind. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 10 Sat Dec 08, 1990 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 00:44 CST Received my brochure offering Telegram today. I guess the check's in the mail tomorrow ... again! Maybe it'll be here in time for Bonnie's Christmas. (Then again, why would I want to jeopardize losing even MORE of my ST time over the holidays!) HW ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 11 Sat Dec 08, 1990 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:03 CST Sorry, Harry, if the check is in the mail, it will be there for Christmas. David, so it's one and the same! Well, maybe they will carry the later entries in the series as well. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 12 Tue Dec 11, 1990 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 08:40 CST Dorothy, I don't recall what I said that made you "apologize" ("sorry"). But I'm also sorry, whatever it was. :) I just borrowed a friend's October (I think) STart and saw all your good stuff in there. Looked good at first glance. Now to find time to do the actual reading. <"Check's in the mail". But I'm not counting on the software before Christmas. You could have mailed it at Thanksgiving and I couldn't rely on my LOCAL mail deliverers to get it to my house. We receive mail in clumps --- after it's apparently been sitting somewhere for a day or 2, or 3!> Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 13 Wed Dec 12, 1990 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 20:31 PST Well I received Learn To Read With Prof. today. It's not quite what I was hoping for. I thought my 30 pounds would buy a complete reading course, instead I received the first part of a TWELVE part series! At 30 pounds each I doubt if I'll being buying the other eleven. (Actually I don't think the other eleven parts exist yet. I'm not sure if ANY other than part one are currently available for the ST.) Another disappointment is that Part One "Prof Plays a New Game" is strictly a word RECOGNITION program. No phonics, no rules or principles of reading. The "game" is designed to drill 56 words into the young students brain by rote and repetition. And the game itself is pretty boring if you ask me. On the other hand my 5 year old isn't bored with it yet, but I don't know how long his attention for it will last. It comes with a cassette that contains an introductory story that is somewhat synchronized to a "story" diskette. The main purpose of this part is to familiarize the child with the arrow keys and spacebar which are used to control the rest of the game. After the cassette is over you pop in disk two and begin the game. The arrow keys control a little spriteman named "Prof". He climbs up and down a ladder. To the left of the ladder are three boxes stacked vertically. To the right of the ladder is a grid of nine boxes. The object of the game is to match the word in a box on the left side to its duplicate somewhere in the grid on the right side. If you make a match Prof jumps up and down. If you make enough matches you get a song and a new "level" with a new set of words. Each level contains LOTS of repetition designed to drill these little words like "I" "CAN" "READ" "MY" "BOOK" "AT" "HOME" "AND" "IN" "SCHOOL" into the little tyke's cerebrum. After 5 levels are completed the child should be able to read the first of five little story books that are included in the package. He then moves on to Part 2. Parts 2 through 5 are identical to Part 1 except the words get harder. In other words, the whole game consists of the same little man climbing up and down his ladder almost ad infinitum. The next program in the package is called "PROF LOOKS AT WORDS" and is supposed to get into the phonics of the words, but I don't know if I'll be sending away another 30 pounds to get it. I guess that depends on how long this one holds my kids attention and whether it really teaches him much. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- To change the subject slightly, I visited a kindergarten today where they had a wall of Apple II's and the kids were playing a reading game. The part I saw had a crude (by ST standards) picture of a rabbit, with the word rabbit spelled out phonetically "RABIT" and correctly "RABBIT". I was very surprised to hear a pleasant, digitized voice sounding out the word and each of its phonetic parts for the child. That is the computer spoke "Rabbit, ERRRR" and then the kid would type "R", and then proceed through the rest of the letters and syllables. How can a cheap old Apple II produce good quality digitized speech? And why aren't there any similar programs for the ST? Waaaaah! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 14 Thu Dec 13, 1990 M.KELLER1 [Mike] at 21:18 EST Harry, I think Dorothy was apologising because she expects to cost you some ST time after Christmas ('cause you're gonna get the software in time). %%%%%%%%mike%%%%%%% ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 15 Fri Dec 14, 1990 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 01:00 CST Sorry the program was so disappointing, David...The review in ST Format sure made it sound better than that. I've started a separate Topic for the discussion of programs not covered by the current Topics...Heaven Forbid if some casual GEnie lurker mis- took Learn to Read with Prof for one of _my_ offerings! By the way, David, do you have any of those? I'm biased, of course, but I do think it would be a better use for your child-software dollar--or pound, as the case may be. ;-) Harry, Telegram went in the mail (1st Class) this afternoon. Yes, I'm sorry, but Bonnie will be hogging the ST all Christmas vacation. Sometime soon, there's got to be a 520 in Bonnie's future...July, perhaps? Merry Christmas! Happy Hannukah! Joyful Holiday ! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 16 Fri Dec 14, 1990 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 22:55 CST You're right. I actually DID have a 520 on Bonnie's list for this time around. But .... Maybe she'll get mine someday soon and I'll .... hm-m-m I guess July'll have to be the time ... birthday and all that. In the meantime, I'll be on the lookout for Telegram. Thanks. (When will I EVER find time to load my Dr.T's Omega upgrade to KCS!!?) Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 17 Sat Dec 15, 1990 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 07:27 PST Yes Dot my kids have used many of your programs and do enjoy them. I guess that means I owe you some $$ . Well I've been planning to order Telegram as soon as my coffers are replenished. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 18 Sat Dec 15, 1990 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 15:40 CST Dot, Telegram arrived today. (the program :) I've installed it but will wait until Christmas to let Bonnie have at it. I especially liked your anecdote about the green car. And it makes a good point, as well. (I only wish some of my co- workers had been exposed to computers as early!) Thanks! I'm sure Bonnie will enjoy being able to pick who she'll be each time. Harry (and how did it get here so fast!?) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 19 Sun Dec 23, 1990 E.SLICK [Eric] at 01:22 PST Dot, I read your interesting article in ST Informer on the harm that shareware has possibly done to ST software developers and it got me to wondering--How does a software developer know when to release something as shareware and when not to? Is there a better alternative? eric ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 20 Sun Dec 23, 1990 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 10:20 CST Eric, a product that will appeal only to a very limited number of people is a prime candidate for shareware. My husband's MIDI program, which requires the user to have both an ST and a discontinued synthesizer (Kawai K5 or K5m), may be useful to no more than a few hundred people, and very likely far fewer than that! It doesn't make sense to pay for ad space, packaging, etc., for a product like that. I believe Tim has had three "buyers" for his shareware product, however, so there must still be others out there who could take advantage of it. A developer who actually wants to make money should avoid shareware. Candid shareware producers have revealed an apalling return rate on even the most popular award-winning shareware products. This is not to suggest in any way that there are millions to be made in the commercial market either, but certainly the potential for profit is greater there. A product the developer has no interest in supporting is a prime candi- date for shareware; the developer's obligation for that product will be limited to those who have paid his fee, so only a handful of potential complainers are likely. If it's the final version of the program and the developer is moving out of the country/dying/selling his ST, then's the moment to release as shareware and possibly wring a few dollars from a major investment. A product that takes very little time to write is a good shareware offering. An essential but tiny utility, for example, may require very little effort from the developer. With widespread appeal, if even 1% of users contribute, it may compensate the developer for his effort; of course, then again, 1% of users may _not_ contribute...If that is the likely scenario, it may be better to accumulate a bunch of handy and essential utilities and sell them on a single commercial disk. Remind you of anything? Hope this helps, Eric. Glad you enjoyed the article. I'd be interested to hear the response of other shareware programmers to your question, too. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 21 Sun Dec 23, 1990 R.NOAK at 13:16 EST Dorothy, Your article was right on target. Just look at any MAC Warehouse catalog. Mac users _pay_ for many of the things that we. as Atari users, get as shareware/PD. Of course, perhaps Atari developers don't feel they deserve compensation for their efforts. ;-) Randy ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 22 Mon Dec 31, 1990 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 21:40 CST Dorothy --- We were finally at home long enough for Bonnie to give Telegram a try yesterday. She thought it was great! She pulled my boom down so she could sing with the microphone. (Didn't matter that it wasn't turned on.) She especially liked the Parking Tickets. Once I suggested she try parking on the "wrong" side of the house, she began doing that more often than not. Thanks for the program. Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 23 Tue Jan 08, 1991 E.SLICK [Eric] at 19:10 PST Dot, that helps. It's pretty much what you already said in ST Informer but the repetition makes it clearer. That article sent a shiver down my shareware spine. I'm rethinking Speedreader ST's marketing strategy because of your comments. I thought shareware was a good idea but now I'm not sure. I'd hate to hurt the ST education market for the few bucks shareware seems to generate. Commercial seems beyond me and I don't think the educational market is big enough to interest a publisher, even when I finish version 1.0 with all the extra stuff for educators. Maybe I'll offer it to STart (a few hundred dollars looks a whole lot better than ten) but they took over a year to cough up the bucks last time and they take full ownership. Or maybe I should just forget releasing it or just put it out as PD (since I won't get anything from shareware anyways) or as a last resort, pull out the Magnum and smoke my computer forever. Ack! What's a programmer to do? It just seems like another reason to be discouraged in an already discouraging ST market. Don't get me wrong. Your thoughts on shareware make a lot of sense but how does a programmer decide which is the best strategy? Oh well, I guess this is off topic (sorry). But it's true. I have zero commercial educational programs for my kids since there were enough in the PD relm and from STart to keep my kids happy. But if I had to buy commercial, I would only have one or two titles (if that). Hmm, I think I'd better get a couple shareware checks in the mail. Good programs and good advice, how do you do it Dot? Eric ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 24 Tue Jan 08, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 23:10 CST Eric, if your kids have only my PD work, you are cheating them. ;-) As for STart, they don't _have_ to buy the copyright on the programs you sell them. They don't own PreSchool KidProgs (published in the October 1990 issue). Make 'em an offer they can't refuse! By the way, magazine programs do help the ST because they are visible on the newsstand. I would, in fact, recommend the magazine route. It's too bad that STart seems to be the only ballgame left in town in that arena. I thoroughly enjoyed writing a monthly program and column for ST-Log. My husband thoroughly enjoyed the guaranteed income. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 25 Mon Jan 14, 1991 E.SLICK [Eric] at 23:39 PST Dot, Thanks for the tip and advice. You really threw me for a loop. I had never considered the problems of shareware before (besides low pay). I just might try the magazine route instead of shareware. If I can still retain ownership, I would be much happier. I have no idea what STart would consider an offer they can't refuse. Without disclosing your own modest fee, could you give me some idea? I'm sure others would be interested. Maybe Ken ought to offer them the same kind of deal you got (reading this Ken? they'd really go for your stuff). I know me (yes I play your games too) and my kids are missing out by not having your other prgs. They are on my crowded list of computer wants (which grows longer instead of shorter for some reason). My eyes have always been the bigest part of my anatomy. Eric ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 26 Tue Jan 15, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 07:55 CST Leave me your address in G{EMail, and I'll send you a flyer that'll make your mouth water... As for magazines, my experience has been that they pay between $200 and $1000 for one-time publication rights for a particular program. It does depend on the magazine, of course, _and_ the program _and_ the length/ depth of the accompanying article. But that's a typical range. ANTIC has uploaded some guidelines for programmers and writers somewhere out there in the ST RT library. In these documents, they tell you what they look for when judging submissions. With this knowledge in mind, you can tailor your submission to their specifications. Check it out. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 27 Fri Jan 18, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:14 CST I'm never too sure how much international activity there is on GEnie, since the hours that people overseas are on here are rarely the same as the hours I am on, but I thought somebody might be interested: Kidpublisher Professional, a desktop publishing program for young writers (ages 5-11), is now available not only in English but also in Icelandic and German, with full character support specific to those languages. The German package is completely rendered in German. The Icelandic package includes adult programs and manuals in English, but the entire Kidpublisher Professional program used by children has been translated to Icelandic. This program is currently being used successfully in an elementary school in Iceland. A demo version of the German Kidpublisher Professional will be available in short order (this weekend) in the Germany RT, Library 4. A demo of the English version is already available in the ST RT, Library 31. Happy Publishing--in any of three languages! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 32 Sun Apr 21, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 17:25 EDT To David (Fairweather): If your child has spent more time with Read and Play, I'd like to know if you've revised your initial assessment. Thank you for any addi- tional comments. --Dorothy ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 33 Sun Apr 21, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 17:31 EDT To all: If your child attends a preschool, day care center, at-risk program, or Kindergarten-Grade 1, please be aware that my company is now marketing a package which includes a 1040STe, 11 programs and diskbox, mouse, and mousepad; used with a color monitor or tv, the package provides a complete computer center for a school program aimed at kids ages 2-7. We presented this package at the Midwest Association for the Education of Young Children conference in DesMoines this past weekend and it was well-received by everyone who gave it a try. Programs included with the package include PD and commercial offerings which have been specially modified to suit the needs of a classroom setting. Please ask interested teachers/directors to contact me at 217 337 1937 for our literature. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 34 Sun Apr 21, 1991 J.NESS [Jim] at 22:09 EDT Dorothy - Hey, the concept of a bundled educational package is a great one (how come I didn't think of that...). Good luck with it. I'd love to see some Atari penetration in the schools. -JN ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 35 Mon Apr 22, 1991 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:33 EDT Dorothy, my two-year old is catching on very fast to the ST. She has just begun a toddler program and will be going 5 mornings beginning in September. The school is owned and run by parents and I am looking for my niche as a volunteer. Can you send me some info about your package? BTW, I started her out with Barnimals. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 37 Mon Apr 22, 1991 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 10:10 EDT Dot, Dexter, my 5-year old, does continue to use Read and Play. I don't quite recall my initial assessment, but I'll give you my current one: Learn To Read With The Professor does work. Dexter has learned to recognize on sight about thirty words. He is halfway through the program. On the plus side, this program instills a real feeling of accomplishment in a child. Dexter feels tremendously proud of himself when he completes a level in the program and can read one of five included booklets all by himself. On the minus side, I feel the program is far too dull and repetitive. The game play on level 5 is no different than the game play on level 1. If the game were more interesting Dexter would probably have finished it by now instead of only being halfway through it. He rarely asks to play the game himself, I usually have to suggest it, or even offer him some inducement to finish another level ("Finish level three and then I'll play Dungeon Master with you.") ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 38 Mon Apr 22, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 14:18 EDT David, thank you for your update. I'm glad your son continues to get some use out of the program. I was wondering because I am in touch with the publishers. They have three additional packets available, each building on the previous ones, and I understand the activities are somewhat dif- ferent. I'll post more when I know. There really is a gap in the market for this kind of software offering; I don't know anything like from the US on the ST platform. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 39 Tue Apr 23, 1991 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 21:48 EDT I saw an interesting program yesterday at my 5-year olds kindergarten class. It was running on a color Mac and was called Number Maze. The idea was to guide a horse through a fairly simple 2-D maze, but at every turn the screen would switch to a nicely rendered 3-D view of a door or gate. Answering a math question would cause the door to open a little, answering several questions would eventually open the door completely and then you'd be back in the 2-D maze. I never got to see what happens when you reach the castle at the end of the maze. The game was O.K. but I found the 2-D view to be rather sparse and the task of leading the horse through the maze with a mouse pointer that looked like a carrot was a bit frustrating for small kids, sometimes the horse wouldn't go the way you tried to lead him. There's no reason a similar game but even better couldn't be written for the ST. Hopefully Ken Kressin's KV_ADDUP will fill this niche. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 40 Thu Apr 25, 1991 E.SLICK [Eric] at 03:31 EDT Great idea (the computer bundle) Eric ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 41 Mon Jun 24, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:26 EDT Friends...PLEASE NOTE!: After posting the announcement concerning the bundling of Atari STes with preschool software, I received several messages in GEMail from people who wanted flyers sent to their local preschool. We were revising our flyer at that time, so I printed the messages and put them someplace safe. Where? I do not know. But they are safe from _me_, that's for sure! I did find a few errant pages, but not the big bunch. If you had sent me GEMail concerning the software bundle for preschool classrooms, please forgive me and send me another message. The flyers are all ready send, and I've sent them to the addresses I was able to retrieve. If you haven't received yours by now, I'm afraid you aren't going to, but I'd be happy to correct that error if you'll let me know. I've just _got_ to come up with another filing system besides stacks of papers all around my "paperless" office! ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 42 Sun Aug 04, 1991 K.SWAFFORD [Kent] at 19:24 EDT I purchased Kid Publisher Pro (6.2) directly from you a couple months ago. (My 9-year-old daughter just ATE UP the "pro" designation, by the way.) We recently tried printing out Erin's first 10-page story to an HP DeskJet 500 with an Epson emulation cartridge. We got the job done to Erin's satisfaction but had some difficulty with vertical placement of the picture/text on the various pages. The print-out started at the very top of Page 1 and went lower and lower on each successive page. With the DeskJet, there obviously is no tractor mechanism with which to manually adjust the placement of the top edge of the paper. Eventually, the printout started so low on the page that it wouldn't fit on one sheet. I believe we had to re-boot the program to get the final pages to print out on one sheet. (Erin did some touching up of some pictures, which resulted in our trying to print out about 15 pages in one session.) Any suggestions? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 43 Sun Aug 04, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 20:25 EDT Kent, I know just whereof you speak. I have the same trouble on my original HP. Fortunately, there is a simple solution Erin will be able to put into practice herself. It's not elegant, but it gets the job done: Simply turn the _printer_ off (not the computer!) after each printout. Then the printer will regard the next printout as a "first" printout and will start it at the top as expected. It seems to have to do with the page length, and you can adjust the dip-switches so that this problem is at least largely alleviated, but unfortunately you will then need to change the dip-switches the next time you want to print from another program, and dip-switches are _much_ harder to get to than the off/on switch. Let me know if this solution does not result in an amazing improvement. By the way, HP Deskjet users who own Kidpublisher Professional can print pages even without the use of the Epson Emulator cartridge. If you do not own the cartridge, please let me know. Chet Walters of WizWorks! has created a special version of his shareware product, HP_DUMP, for Kidpublisher Professional users. The images on the pages printed using this special utility are just slightly smaller than those provided with the Epson Emulator cartridge and the pages are very attractive... You _do_ have to turn the printer off and back on between printouts, however, just as you do with the cartridge. Thank you for bringing your frustration to my attention. Kidpublisher Professional works with most printers right out of the box, but some printers require a special driver or setup utility to get it just right. And then there's the HP... Happy Publishing, Erin! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 44 Tue Aug 06, 1991 K.SWAFFORD [Kent] at 19:50 EDT Thanks for your prompt help with printouts from Kid Publisher to an HP DeskJet 500. Turning off the printer between page printouts won't work for us because I have never hot-rodded the printer cable to allow this. (I normally use REVIV_DJ.ACC instead, which is unavailable while Kid Publisher is running.) No matter, I assume that pressing the "Reset" button on the HPDJ (not the ST!) between page printouts would accomplish the same thing as turning the printer off and back on. It would be nice to set up things so that Erin could do printouts by herself, but I don't normally use the Epson cartridge, so Erin must ask me to insert the cartridge. While I'm at it, I might as well set the DIP switches, too. I assume printouts would be close to perfection if the Epson cartridge is installed, the Perforation Skip Function Switch (A8) is set down (enabled), and the DJ Reset button is pressed between page printouts. Right? Is HP_DUMP applicable to printouts from your other programs, too? If so, it might be that installing HP_DUMP (and doing the modification to the printer cable) could help me set things up so that Erin AND her little sister could do printouts without assistance. Thanks for your help. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 45 Tue Aug 06, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:12 EDT Kent, haven't tried the dip-switch route in a year or so, so I'd have to revive my memory. If you get to it first, tell me how it goes. ;-) I do believe the reset button on the DJ should have the very same effect. The regular shareware HP_DUMP will work just fine with your copies of Kidpainter, Super Kidgrid, and Telegram; this file is out in the Library with the uploader address C.WALTERS1 (Chet Walters of WizWorks!, the program's author). He prepared a special version of the program that produces two screen dumps in a row -- required by Kidpublisher -- and in the proper vertical orientation. HP_DUMP goes right into the AUTO folder and requires no special care once it's installed correctly. I think I like the printout with the Epson cartridge a little bit better, because it's just a tad bit bigger, but that's a subjective opinion. Both routes produce clear, centered, and fine copies. I don't know why, but my original DJ has never given me any problems related to this rumored cable modification ;-) ...I can turn my printer off and on at will without worrying about its communication with the computer. Just lucky, I guess. If you decide you'd like to give the KP HP_DUMP a try, just drop me a note here and then look in your GEMail about two hours later. It's an easy d/l. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 46 Sat Aug 10, 1991 K.SWAFFORD [Kent] at 23:05 EDT For the time being, I think we'd best stick with the Epson emulator for printing from KP to the HPDJ. The emulator works fine; I just wish I could leave the thing installed and select/deselect it through software commands. (I know, I know -- that's not your problem.) Um... I can't seem to find anything called HP_DUMP in the ST libraries. ???? Thanks. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 47 Sun Aug 11, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 04:06 EDT Kent: OOOOPS! I think maybe Chet changed the filename when he upgraded the program. It might be 15819, but I'll check with Chet and get back to you. --D.A. Brumleve Member, IAAD ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 48 Mon Oct 14, 1991 M.WATERS10 [myeck] at 23:15 EDT Hiya, Dorothy; Just wanted to say how nice it was to meet and chat with you on Saturday at WAACE. After prying our son's hands off of Kidpainter, he now says he thinks Kidpublisher Professional is what he's interested in. Once our color system returns from spark-and-smoke land we're gonna fire up the PD version (or was it a demo version?) and see what happens - how does "Pro" compare/differ? I know I've read about it somewhere, but... ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 49 Sun Oct 20, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:02 EDT Ron, I'm very glad you are enjoying use of Super Kidgrid and want to purchase further programs! Our programs/prices are as follows: Super Kidgrid (ages 3-11) : $25 Telegram (for READERS only!) : $25 Kidpainter (ages 5-11) : $35 Kidpublisher Professional (ages 5-11) : $35 Each program comes complete with an installation program for use by a parent/teacher in creating a version of the program that is specially adapted to the child's needs and level of development. A young child can have a very simplified version of each program, and as the child's skills and sophistication grow, the parent can rerun the installation program and add new options. In this way, our programs can grow with the child rather than being outgrown, and our expected target range on Super Kidgrid of ages 3-11 is very genuinely real. Orders can be submitted by phone, mail, or GEMail. We _do_ accept MC/VISA! If you order by mail, please include $3 for shipping within the US. If you plan to pay with your MC/VISA card, please include the cardnumber, the expiration date, and your name exactly as it appears on your card. GEMail : D.A.BRUMLEVE USMail : P.O. Box 4195 / Urbana, IL 61801-8820 / USA Phone : 217 337 1937 We support our products online on GEnie, Delphi, and CompuServe as well as by phone, FAX, and mail. Most people don't require support, but if you aren't one of them, we are here! ;-) We're not _always_ here, though...For example, on November 23rd and 24th, we'll be at the glorious Chicago ComputerFest by Atari (with a lot of help from LCACE). We'll have all our current offerings there at slightly reduced prices ;-) and our Gourmet Cheese Mouse Pads, too! See you there, or here, or in GEMail, your choice! Dorothy PS to Ron: Since you bought Super Kidgrid at WAACE, I'll extend the Show Special to you for your additional purchase if you do it pretty soon. ($10 off with the purchase of two or more!) But I'll have to charge you for shipping. :-( ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 50 Sun Nov 17, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 16:34 EST I'm working on a new program that allows children to experiment with multiplication and addition and provides games for practice with related math facts. The program is called "Multiplay" and is scheduled for release in the first quarter of 1992, and I fully and truly expect to have it out by then. ;-) In the meantime, a less extensive version of Multiplay will be released next weekend at the Chicago ComputerFest as part of my "Learning Games Packet". The packet includes a disk box with Mini-Multiplay and nine other games which hail mostly from the PD/shareware realm (half the games in the packet are my own). All the games are designed to autoboot on any ST/STe and are individually labelled with our unique icon labels. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 51 Sun Nov 17, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 16:35 EST A customer who owns Super Kidgrid and is considering additional purchases, writes: "Is Kidpainter at all capable of being placed on a hard drive with data files being saved to a specific folder or area?" The short answer is a resounding YES! The long answer is that I'd released several freely-distributed kidprgs before I owned a hard drive and thus before understood that not everyone would want my programs to boot from Drive A. So there are some old programs out there that insist upon use from Drive A. My later programs, commercial and freely- distributed, will all work from a hard drive if desired. Even so, I still encourage parents to set up the computer to boot from Drive A, as this allows even the smallest children to take advantage of autobooting and to enjoy completely independent use of the computer. There are other ways to facilitate such independence, even from a hard drive. When Harry Wootan's daughter Bonnie was small, she used Hotwire macros to run her programs, for example. Children who can't tackle a directory window may well be able to remember sequences of this kind to run their own programs. My own kids and the ones I deal with in local schools use the disk box like adults use their hard drive directory. They choose the program they want simply by identifying the proper disk (there is an icon and a program name on each disk), insert the disk in the drive, and voila! they are in business, without ever having to mess with the operating system or GEM directly. Before I began using autobooters, my kids were at my mercy. Every time they wanted to use the computer, they not only had to ask permission, but they had to hit on me at a time when I could drop everything and go over and load the program to get them started. Now, my permission is sufficient. There is no demeaning begging for help. And they are very proud of their independence. (As soon as the children can read well, I do go ahead and teach them to use the ST desktop. By that time, they've seen a few fileselector boxes and the rest is pretty straightforward. I see autobooting as a means of providing immediate independence, not as a permanent crutch. When I teach adults to use the computer, I expect them to tackle the desktop from the first day. With kids, I ease them into it.) So even the long answer is a resounding YES! Since this customer owns Super Kidgrid, I ought to point out that it, too, can and will run from a hard disk as described. When the parent runs the installation program from the hard drive, an alert box will point out that the child "will miss out on the benefits of autobooting" if the program is installed there, but if the parent prefers to do so, the installation program will proceed to install the program without passing judgment on the parent's decision. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 52 Sun Nov 17, 1991 Z-NET [Ron Kovacs] at 22:45 EST Dot... Sorry for the LONG delay in reading your message to me! I am also pleased to read the hard disk information since my daughter is already familiar with the ST desktop. I am using SGSNET on her system and prefer her using the system as is, (some functions not available to her) without using the floppy.... I will give it a try and get back to you... Thanks for all the assistance! Ron ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 53 Mon Nov 18, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 02:01 EST Sure. Let me know if you encounter any problems. I'm not familiar with SGSNET, but I do know the programs work fine from a hard drive. Smart kid you got, a desktop whiz! ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 54 Mon Nov 18, 1991 TOWNS [John@Atari] at 17:51 EST The Multi-Play idea sounds very interesting.. Wish I was going to be at Chicago to check it out. Any chance for a demo in the future? -- John ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 55 Mon Nov 18, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:53 EST John, I'm shooting for Jan 1992 for the full-scale version. Most features are already implemented in the version now in beta-test, and we test our products for at least a couple months on some 200 kids before they get out to the general public and my esteemed customers. The Mini-Multiplay version which is part of the Learning Games Packet will *almost* serve as a demo, but not quite, so I'll wait and do it right when the time comes. Wish you were going to be at Chicago, too. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 56 Mon Nov 18, 1991 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 23:19 EST Dorothy, You referred to Bonnie's use of your programs from a hard drive. It's ironic that she NOW tends to run them from the floppy. That's because she now enjoys trying out several of my stashed-away games that I don't keep on the hard drive (or won't run from there). She likes Winter Games, Summer Games, etc., and Fiendish Freddy, and some others. So, she is growing more accustomed to booting from the floppy. She sits with thumb and index & middle fingers poised above the CNTL-SHFT-ALT keys waiting for the floppy light to come on. :- ) She has a tendency to explain it to her mom, who NEVER has to boot from a floppy! ;-) For some reason, though, she has grown attached to WordPerfect! One of her favorite things is to sit at the ST with her phone, open up the AAA Florida Guidebook, and use WP for taking motel reservations from her imaginary callers (all of whom are "coming" to Disney World, of course). But she still uses all your programs. I've noticed that she really enjoys showing visiting YOUNGER friends how to use KidPainter and Telegram. I believe she's a teacher at heart to begin with. Incidentally, we set Bonnie up to use SuperBoot (instead of HotWire). That's what I've been using as my "boot-time configuration selector" for several years. A consideration is to be sure that the child's selections appear on the first (default) SuperBoot screen for selection without having to depress ALT or CNTL. HotWire should also work fine, though! -- Harry P.S. Looking forward to your next program. Sure would like to be in Chicago! What kind of numbers will Multi-Play handle for addition and multiplication? Up to "9" or "12"? Any 2-digit? Higher (for addition)? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 57 Tue Nov 19, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:58 EST Harry, thanks for the correction re Superboot/HotWire. Mini-Multiplay deals with 0-9 only. That's why it's called "Mini", that and the fact that the games and printing features aren't included. The full-scale MultiPlay (please note it ISN'T shipping for a couple months) will deal with 0-30, include games, and there will be the capacity to print stuff for use when the computer is off. The 0-30 and 0-9 stuff refers to _both_ addition and multiplication, which take place on separate screens and involve separate activities. Addition will increase the age range of the program downward toward 5, and multi- plication will push it upward toward 11, so I figure this one will be another one of those "5-11" programs. Hope this helps. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 58 Tue Nov 19, 1991 TOWNS [John@Atari] at 16:13 EST Will look forward to a future demo, Dot. Have fun in Chicago! ;-) Wear some black for me! -- John ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 59 Tue Nov 19, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 16:49 EST I'll wear enough black for _everybody_, John T! Harry, I don't think I made one thing clear in regards to the as-yet- unreleased full-scale MultiPlay: The installation program will allow parents to choose whether the program offers only addition-related activities and/or only multiplication-related activities. As always, the installation program will allow the program to grow with the child. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 60 Tue Nov 19, 1991 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 23:50 EST Dorothy, Thanks for all the info. Sounds like something Bonnie will enjoy. She continues to say she can't do math. Doesn't seem to matter that she never misses any of it in her work. :-) -- Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 61 Tue Nov 26, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 20:03 EST At shows, I have a little notepad on which I write the names of customers whose printer will require a special driver, and theokn I send them a driver disk when I get back home. Or, I should say I _had_ a little {notepad, but I suspect it's now in some Chicago-area landfill. If I promised you a driver disk at the Chicago ComputerFest, please drop me a note here or in GEMail and it will be shipped promptly. I apologize for your inconvenience. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 62 Fri Dec 06, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 02:00 EST A user has asked in GEMail for a description of my products, so I guess it's about time I posted some information on them. First of all, I'd like to refer you to the ST RT Library 31, which has demos of three of my commercial products. These demos are fully-functioning except for SAVE/LOAD and PRINT, and a lot of fun even if you don't have kids! File #15582 KPT_DM23.ARC File #15583 KP_DM_62.ARC File #13905 SKG_DEMO.ARC There are press releases for Super Kidgrid (#13904) and Kidpublisher Professional (#12708 -- this release does not include info on changes in version 6.2). A brief online version of my catalog includes: Kidpublisher Professional: A Desktop Publishing Program for Young Writers (5-11) $35 Kidpainter: A Graphics Design Program for Young Artists (5-11) $35 Super Kidgrid for Creative Graphics Design (3-11) $25 Telegram: The Silly Song Player (for readers only) $25 Creative Discovery Packet 11 programs especially designed for use in Early Childhood Classrooms (2-8) $120 Learning Games Packet 10 educational programs largely from the PD and shareware realms (7-11) $40 Fuji (Atari logo) Rubber Stamps Small fuji $ 5 Large fuji $ 6 Gourmet Cheese Mouse Pad $ 9 Your kids will be thrilled to receive these programs and items of Atari paraphenalia during the holidays! If you'd like a catalog, just send me your address in GEMail (to D.A.BRUMLEVE). You can also place an MC/VISA order in GEMail, no problem. Got a question? Ask it here! Looking forward to hearing from you, Dorothy ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 63 Sat Dec 14, 1991 R.WOODBRIDG1 [Rob] at 12:42 EST Dot, regarding printer drivers, do you still use the screen dump approach or do you have a regular print command in your programs now? Thanks, Rob ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 64 Sat Dec 14, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 15:13 EST Rob, Glad you asked! And the answer is a resounding "YES", our programs send a screen dump to the printer. The reason for this is two-fold: first, everything our programs print (even Kidpublisher's text) is _graphics_; and second, in the spirit of true WISIWIG, we print the screen, and the screen dump is the most obvious and efficient means of doing this. We've found that the screen dump routine will work with nearly every printer (I say "nearly" 'cause you never know, I might run into one that's hard to convince), either right out of the box or with the use of a special driver. In addition to Degas-type drivers for nearly every conceivable printer, we also have a special program designed by Chet Walters of WizWorks! which will convince any HP jet or laser to produce beautiful output from any of our programs without the use of an Epson emulator cartridge. I get the impression from your query that you have had some unfortunate experience with our programs and your printer. Could you please elaborate? Which printer are you using? Which programs? We have satisfied customers using just about every printer readily available in North America, Europe, and the South Pacific, so unless you've got something extremely obscure, I think we have a ready fix for you. Regards, Dorothy ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 65 Mon Dec 23, 1991 R.WOODBRIDG1 [Rob] at 18:53 EST Dot, Gee... um, actually I've had no problems with your programs (of the demos here that I've tried), of course I've not tried to print from one at all, um... Actually, I was just curious, as I've been thinking about getting some software for my 6 year old who is learning to read and write. I sort of assumed there would be a "better way" to print by now, but it sounds like you have the best way already. ...Back under my rock. %) Rob ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 66 Mon Dec 23, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 23:53 EST A six-year-old learning to read and _write_? Come on out from under that rock, Rob, and check out Kidpublisher Professional! This program is not only appropriate for kids learning to write, it's actually _designed_ for them. Kidpublisher Professional is used in early childhood and early elementary classrooms all over the globe for this very purpose. Just a couple weeks ago, NewsWeek's feature on education around the world promoted New Zealand as having the best early literacy program anywhere. I happen to have more registered schools using Kidpublisher Pro in New Zealand than in any other country. Coincidence? ;-) Kidpublisher Pro allows a child to express his own creativity in graphics and text. It will not criticize his spelling, it will not correct his grammar, it will not laugh at his drawings or try to figure out what he was trying to represent. Freed from critical appraisal, the young writer will experiment, take risks, _write_! The youngest writers will often draw a picture first and then use the graphic to suggest the text. Older children are more likely to compose the text first and illustrate it with a drawing afterwards. Children enjoy the ability to choose fonts. A title page option facilitates the compilation of a story or essay into a booklet, every bit as professional in appearance as Daddy's newsletter. The drawing program offers an extensive set of drawing tools, sophisticated but very easy to use. Many young children find typing (even in hunt-and-peck mode) less stressful than writing by hand. As children mature in their writing skills and strive toward perfection in grammar, lexicon, and spelling, they learn to appreciate the editing abilities of the computer just as adults do. How nice not to have to completely rewrite a page because you've added a sentence! It's great also to be able to show off papers that aren't filled with smudged erasures. Kidpublisher Pro supports such "adult" wp features as movement of the cursor with mouse or arrow keys, word wrap, and underlining; this facilitates later graduation to adult word processors. Kidpublisher Pro has a special feature to prevent children from "overtyping" or "overdeleting" through heavy-handed typing. Best of all, all features of Kidpublisher Professional can be exploited by a typical child from Day #1. It's so easy to use, the child can be productive almost immediately -- and _all_ by himself! ("Daddy, look! I made a _real_ book all by myself!") Teachers in my local schools use the program with early writers to promote self-confidence and accuracy (through the ease of editing) in writing. Kidpublisher Pro is available for $35, and can be ordered online in GEMail via MC/VISA (phone orders: 217 337 1937). It requires any ST/STe with a color monitor and (almost) any printer. It comes complete with an installation program, a 32-page manual for parents and teachers, and a 1-sheet children's manual. That's unlimited writing practice, self-confidence, independence, and excellent output for only $35! What a deal! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 67 Fri Dec 27, 1991 R.WOODBRIDG1 [Rob] at 10:29 EST OK, Dot, you sold me. I'll call you today and order. Do you have similar write-ups for your other programs? I bet you'd sell me some more... :^) Will Kidpub Pro support cut sheet feeder on Epson LQ-800? It limits you to effectively a 10" tall space on 11" page. Thanks, Rob ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 68 Fri Dec 27, 1991 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 11:26 EST Rob, I don't believe any of my users have brought up the cut-sheet feeder thing, so either it works -- or none of my users have it! ;-) In any case, the printed image allows for a good deal of space at both top and bottom, so I think it will work fine. The program does support the Epson LQ-800. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 69 Tue Dec 31, 1991 R.WOODBRIDG1 [Rob] at 22:39 EST Great! I received the bright red box yesterday from you, but haven't yet tried the printer driver business. I'll certainly let you know how it comes out. Thanks, Rob ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 70 Fri Jan 17, 1992 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 18:37 EST Hiya; I'me having a spot of trouble finding a working screen-dumper for use with Kidpublisher Professional and my 24-pin printer (a STAR NX24-10). So far, I've found two: one by Dan Wilga, which seems to turn all non-white screen into solid black, and a Degas driver, which I install with PRTINST.PRG in the AUTO folder, and which prints out OK, but when called from Kidpublisher, it prints out in landscape mode, which doesn't cheer me up at all! Any clues? Thanks, mjw ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 71 Fri Jan 17, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 19:11 EST Myeck, thanks for bringing this to my attention. Registered users who require a special driver receive a disk for this purpose. I'll send you the appropriate files in GEMail. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 72 Mon Jan 20, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:28 EST So, Myeck, any luck with the driver? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 73 Wed Jan 22, 1992 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 00:29 EST Oops! I hadn't realised I haven't registered yet! Well, it's probably pointless _now_, after I've embarrassed myself in front of hundreds of modems, but I'll do it anyway (I found the card after reading the bit about "registered users")! Thanks for the Quick service! (For the benefit of anyone who may be wondering about KIDPRG support, I received the very file I needed from D.A.B. on the same day I asked about my problem.) The driver loader works perfectly, and although my DEGAS driver printed out well enough, one of the drivers you supplied does a better job of filling out the screen. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 74 Wed Jan 22, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:45 EST Good to hear, Myeck...No, you aren't registered cardwise, but you are in my database as a bonafide user. One of the little benefits of purchasing direct. ;-) I am working on a painless way to provide the proper driver and permit autobooting (and thus promote independent use by kids). I'll let you know when these experiments have positive results. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 75 Fri Jan 24, 1992 B.BEAUCHEA [Bob Beauchea] at 18:46 EST Dorothy, I am interested in a printer driver for the Deskjet 500. My kids use Kidpublisher Pro, Super Kidgrid and Kidpainter. I used to have an Epson but I recently upgraded. I purchased these programs from you at the WAACE show in 1990. Bob Beauchea ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 76 Fri Jan 24, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 20:06 EST Bob, Chet Walters has created a driver for the HP series which will allow the PRINT function in Super Kidgrid and Kidpainter to create absolutely *glorious* output on your upgraded DJ. It's a relatively small file, so I'll upload it to you in GEMail. There's a text file included by Chet which explains his more extensive shareware version's features. If you don't plan to buy an Epson emulator cartridge for your new DJ, you may want to consider the full version. Your kids will notice that the printout is a bit smaller than they are accustomed to, but, believe me, it's pretty! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 77 Sun Jan 26, 1992 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 21:09 EST >D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:45 EST > > Good to hear, Myeck...No, you aren't registered cardwise, but you > are in my database as a bonafide user. One of the little benefits > of purchasing direct. ;-) >---------- > Well, I've actually got the card filled out now. Now, as soon as I can find that roll of stamps, I'll be putting it in the mail, along with my Christmas cards... ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 78 Sun Jan 26, 1992 B.BEAUCHEA [Bob Beauchea] at 21:25 EST Dorothy, Thanks! The progarm works great. Bob ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 80 Sun Feb 09, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 02:18 EST Well, folks, I'm finally getting through some of those unfinished programs occupying valuable space on my hard drive. First to be published will be Multiplay. The final beta testing will begin this week, with expected publication in mid-March or slightly earlier. Multiplay will see its show debut at the Toronto Atari Users Convention in April. Multiplay is a math drill program for ages 3-11...Ah, I can hear it now: "Drill? Ugh...I hate rote drill!" ;-) Let's net those little stomach butterflies right now, 'cause Multiplay isn't your typical rote drill program. You know those multiplication tables you had to memorize in the third grade? Well, they _still_ make third graders memorize them, and Multiplay provides a _fun_ way to get that job done! Multiplay is also appropriate for many preschoolers, as it can offer experiences with addition as well as multiplication. The program consists of three screens: the Self-Drill Screen, the Puzzle Screen, and the Make Puzzle Screen. Each screen's primary component is a grid. The x and y axes form the operators in an equation and the square at which they meet is the solution to the problem. Parents can choose whether the grid deals with the operators 0-9, 0-19, or 0-29 (limited to 0-19 on a 520ST). If a size larger than 0-9 x 0-9 is chosen, the child can scroll around the grid using the mouse (only 100 squares in the grid are shown at a time). On the Self-Drill screen, the child clicks on a square and sees the full equation, answer and all. The answers remain highlighted (until the child turns them off), so the child can go clicking about the grid, guessing at each answer before it is shown -- and using neighboring answers as an aid to the guess. The patterns involved in the concepts of multiplication and addition can be discovered and internalized. The Puzzle Screen offers a game for one or two players. Children can play the built-in puzzles or the ones they have made themselves on the Make Puzzle Screen. Players take turns clicking on squares and then typing the answer to the problem displayed. The score _is_ the answer to the problem. Thus, children who choose to tackle 29 x 29 -- and do so successfully -- will have a much higher score than if they had chosen easier problems. Each successful answer causes the computer to fill in the squares that have the same color as the answer square. As the squares are filled with color, a picture is revealed. Children can only choose answer squares which are not already filled with color, so the choices become more limited as the game progresses. The Make Puzzle Screen allows the child to make and save his own puzzles. Puzzle design is a challenging undertaking. One can make the puzzles more difficult by limiting certain colors to the high range of the grid. An editor program allows parents and teachers to delete unwanted puzzles. Multiplay, like all commercial kidprgs, is accompanied by an installation program which allows the parent or teacher to configure the child's disk to suit his/her needs and interests. This grow-as-you-grow approach allows Multiplay to appeal to children of a wide age range. Parents can choose to offer multiplication _or_ addition _or_ _both_, and to offer a PRINT or an EXIT option. Parents also decide whether the grid will deal with the numbers 0-9, 0-19, or 0-29, and whether a dot or an "x" will be used for the multiplication sign. If the PRINT option is permitted, children can print an empty version of the grid to fill out by hand or a version of the grid with all the answer squares filled. My third-grade daughter, Catherine, assembled a poster of the entire 0-29 x 0-29 multiplication table; it was a real hit with her classmates! Hmmm...Well, this is already looking more like a press release than a progress update, but if you have questions, please jump in! And bring the kids to the Toronto show! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 81 Sun Feb 09, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 16:03 EST Dorothy, Sounds great! Bonnie (my local 3rd-grader) is working on her "times tables" these days. She feels GREAT that she compelted her 8's & 9's Friday. The best part about it is that now come the 10's & 11's, not exactly the toughest ones to deal with. :-) -- Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 82 Sun Feb 09, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 16:51 EST Harry, 10's and 11's are a cinch, but with Multiplay she can go up to 29 x 29 and that range, and let me tell you -- they are HARD! I had my calculator out all the time while programming it! ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 83 Sun Feb 09, 1992 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 17:31 EST ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 84 Mon Feb 10, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 00:01 EST Dorothy -- I know 25*25 and 20*20. Isn't that enough!? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 85 Mon Feb 10, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:48 EST Harry, not if you want to beat Bonnie on the Puzzle Screen. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 86 Mon Feb 10, 1992 C.TOWNSLEY [CHARLIE] at 18:08 EST Harry, you said it all with your last line. I made a firm rule for myself: First I get my MSTE, then I teach my Niece (and my Father) how to use my old STfm. I should have added another condition though. I need a house with TWO computer room's. With the pair of them INSISTING that I come see what they've done every 15 minutes, I can't get anything done myself. :-) Dorothy, I'm wondering if you have plans to attend the ACE show in Toronto this April. I owe you a shareware fee or two, I believe, and I'd like to see and hear a demo of your other product's live. Any chance? Charlie Townsley ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 87 Mon Feb 10, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 19:13 EST Charlie, I absolutely _do_ plan to attend the Atari Canadian Exposition in Toronto! I'm planning to debut my new program, Multiplay, there, and of course I'll be bringing along Kidpublisher Professional, Kid- painter, Super Kidgrid, and Telegram. See you there! Harry, the time finally came when the price of used 520s came down so low I was able to "steal" one for one of our younger children...and for another younger child...We have four permanent workstations right now, mine which is _all_ mine, "the kids'", the oldest son's, and dad's -- which is sometimes his and sometimes for the other kids. We also have a couple spares which we'll set up temporarily if need be, but we just don't have room to provide for their permanent installation. You might want to keep an eye out for a used 520...They really take a beating from kids, but they _work_ and work well with the programs kids want to use. Come next July 23rd, Bonnie could be leaving you to enjoy your computer yourself -- while she enjoys _hers_. Think about it. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 88 Tue Feb 11, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 08:50 EST Dorothy, I've definitely been watching the used 520 prices. They're looking real good these days. But I keep teetering toward getting a Mega for myself (to allow use of a Moniterm monitor), leaving my current 520 for Bonnie (& Mom). Were it only free! -- Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 89 Tue Feb 11, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 14:47 EST The umlaut does not seem to be on GEnie...Over in the Germany RT, I'd just say "waere" and most everybody would know. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 90 Mon Mar 09, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:48 EST D.A. Brumleve is pleased to announce a _new_ program: Multiplay Math Exploration, Discovery and Practice for ages 5-11 Multiplay is designed to help children commit basic addition and multiplication equations to memory and to offer opportunities for the discovery of math patterns. Among the multitude of basic math drill programs, Multiplay is unique in the freedom of choice extended to both the child users and their parents or teachers, in its open-endedness, and in the opportunity for creative thinking and expression. The program consists of a Main Screen and three play screens: the Pattern Screen, the Puzzle Screen, and the Make Puzzle Screen. Each screen's primary component is a grid. The x and y axes form the elements in an equation and the grid square at which they converge is the solution to the problem, the "answer square". The parent or teacher can choose whether the grid deals with the elements 0-9, 0-19, or 0-29 (limited to 0-19 on a 520ST). There is also a choice of whether the program will offer multiplication or addition or both. On the Pattern Screen, the child clicks on a square and sees the full equation, answer and all. The answers remain highlighted (until the child turns them off), so the child can go clicking about the grid, guessing at each answer before it is shown -- and using neighboring answers as an aid to the guess. The patterns involved in the concepts of multiplication and addition and the relationships between neighboring and analogous equations can thus be discovered and internalized. A TEST option facilitates the play of various games and helps children keep track of their progress; the test option can also be used to assist children in the discovery of patterns. The Puzzle Screen offers a game for one or two players. Children can play the built-in puzzles or the ones they have made themselves on the Make Puzzle Screen. Players take turns clicking on squares and then typing the answer to the problem displayed. The score is the sum of the player's correct answers. Thus, children who choose to tackle 29 x 29 -- and do so successfully -- will have a much higher score than if they had chosen easier problems. Each successful answer causes the computer to fill in all the puzzle squares which have the same color as the answer square. As the squares are filled with color, a picture is revealed. The Make Puzzle Screen allows the child to make and save his own puzzles. Puzzle design is a challenging undertaking in and of itself. An separate editor program allows parents and teachers (and older children) to delete unwanted puzzles. Multiplay, like all commercial kidprgs, is accompanied by an installation program which allows the parent or teacher to configure the child's disk to suit his/her needs and interests. The adult can pick and choose the options which will be available to the child and rerun the installation program to add options as the child's skills increase. This grow-as-you-grow approach allows Multiplay to appeal to children throughout a wide age range. In fact, Multiplay appeals to beginners and math wizards alike! The Multiplay package contains two green single-sided disks, a 28-page manual, a one-sheet children's manual, and extra labels for your child's copies. The recommended retail price is US$40. The program will be available on or before March 15, 1992. We do accept MasterCard and VISA; please include your expiration date. Personal checks in US$ should include $3 for postage. D.A. Brumleve P.O. Box 4195 Urbana, IL 61801-8820 USA VOICE: 217 337 1937 FAX: 217 367 9084 GEnie: D.A.BRUMLEVE CIS: 71451,1141 Delphi: DABRUMLEVE ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 91 Mon Mar 09, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:49 EST D.A. Brumleve is very pleased to announce a major upgrade to: Kidpublisher Professional A Desktop Publishing Program for Young Writers for ages 5-11 Kidpublisher Professional is a desktop publishing program for children. Most children use the program to write and illustrate stories and reports, but it can be used to print any kind of document requiring both text and graphics (posters, personal letters, etc.). It includes a WYSIWYG word processor and drawing screen. Printouts have a picture on the top half of the page with 7 lines (32 columns) of text at the bottom. Four font styles are built into the program, and a teacher or parent may design an additional font using any DEGAS-compatible drawing program. The previous version (6.2) worked quite well, so this upgrade (6.4) involves added features rather than bug fixes, though we have also worked on memory conservation and other improvements which will be invisible to the user. The new features include the following: Kidpublisher Professional now contains a built-in coded font set. The child types a message in a normal font and then can convert the text to code by simply selecting the coded font set from the FONT dialog. A decoder card is included in the package. The code used is self-decoding: a child who receives a message written in the coded font set can type that message into his own computer and then load the coded font set to _read_ the deciphered message as well! Kids really enjoy this feature. Children who use both our Kidpainter and Kidpublisher Professional have asked us time and time again to add the MIRROR option to Kidpublisher, so we have. The drawing portion of the program will now automatically create mirror-images (horizontal, vertical, or both) as the child draws with the FREEHAND, LINE, BOX, and CIRCLE drawing tools. Children can use Kidpublisher Professional to print a title page without graphics. The title and author's and illustrator's names are automatically centered, and the title itself is underlined. Teachers have asked for a date on the title page, and we've added this facility. The date is derived from the system clock and presented to the child for editing as part of the TITLE option sequence of dialogs. Using the included Installation Program, parents and teachers can choose whether or not to allow each of these new features. If the TITLE option is permitted, parents and teachers can choose whether the date will be presented in European (5 March 1992) or US (March 5, 1992) format. The package contains a red disk, a 28-page parent/teacher manual, a one-sheet children's manual, extra labels, and a decoder card. These enhancements make Kidpublisher Professional more powerful and more stimulating than ever before. Registered users may upgrade their copies for just US$5 (plus $1 shipping). The list price for the new version is US$40. This upgrade will be ready to ship on or before March 15. An announcement is on its way to registered users. We do accept MasterCard and VISA; please include your expiration date. Personal checks in US$ should include $3 for postage. D.A. Brumleve P.O. Box 4195 Urbana, IL 61801-8820 USA VOICE: 217 337 1937 FAX: 217 367 9084 GEnie: D.A.BRUMLEVE CIS: 71451,1141 Delphi: DABRUMLEVE [Please note that version 6.4 is available in the English language only. The current Dutch, Icelandic, and German versions are 6.3.] ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 92 Sun Mar 15, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:50 EST The father of one of my users suggests that I write a spelling program. A spelling program...? Well, one of my policies is: Never do anything that's already been done. Especially in this market, where a relatively small number of developers is working to provide applications, it's best to focus on what software the machine _lacks_ rather than to reinvent the wheel. Every once in a while, I have an idea that's already been done, but done poorly. In these cases, I tend to pass the idea on to somebody else -- and they do it. Anyway, if your child is struggling with the same silly word lists my daughter has to contend with, I do have some suggestions for bringing technology into play. First of all, I'd recommend Atari's own Bentley Bear's Speller Bee for this purpose. Although the program comes with a sizable built-in word list, it is indeed configuable (by adults) to offer specific words. It has a nice, slow pace, one that doesn't frustrate the young typist (it is not keyboard-controlled). The program has its charm, and children ages 5-9 or so should find it rewarding. When the disk is set up to elicit the child's own unique spelling list, the child can regard it as a welcome learning aid. Because it's "old" as software goes, it can be had for a song when it can be found at all...I picked up a copy last year for $6 for my local school. I'll bet you could easily find a used copy with an inquiry in Cat 27 or at your user group meeting. There are other programs of this same ilk, in fact, there are a _legion_ of programs of this ilk, especially from England, but not all of them can be configured by the user/parent to provide practice with a specific set of words. Bentley does it just fine. In the PD realm, WUZZLERS.ARC requires a lot more work on the part of the person setting up the word list, as you have to draw a picture, too, but the child could set up the word list _himself_ (and do the pictures), which would be a learning/moti- vating experience in and of itself. Wuzzlers presents a hangman- type game for 1 or two players; a pictorial hint is provided if the player _misses_ an answer (not as a reward, but as a help). This can be found in Library 31 of the ST RT. I wrote Wuzzlers for ST-Log. I don't think Wheel-of-Fortune is still around (something about copyrights and trademarks), but I used to use it for spelling drill with some of my kids. It could be configured to provide a specific set of words/phrases. A child in the upper elementary grades or junior/senior high may have fun, think, and learn while working crosswords, word search puzzles, and cryptograms, all of which are available from one source: Fair Dinkum Technologies. In educationese, these are known as "vocabulary enhancing activities". Hutch of Fair Dinkum has a Topic in this Category covering Crossword Creator II, Word Search Creator, and The Cryptographer (great name, Hutch!), so please seek more details there. When homeschooling my oldest son at age 7, I pulled his spelling lists from his own writing. Excercises he did with these words were special to him; these were "his words". If you can instill the attitude that these words have a particular value to the child, it'll help motivate the child to commit the spelling to memory whether or not technology is used. My 9-year-old daughter has a learning disability which makes it very difficult for her to retain letter sequences (she knows every phone number in the student directory, however). We've found that using different media helps her to internalize spellings. She "draws" words in oatmeal, she uses letter-blocks to spell them out. If your child is unable to memorize spellings even with repeated exposures, please be sure to mention this to his or her teacher; it may be that unusual techniques such as these can be of benefit. Another thing my daughter has done to help with word lists and spelling in general involves her ST. She uses Kidpublisher Professional to produce most of her written work. When she finishes a story or report, she'll call me to help with editing. I'll point out words with questionable spelling; if she can't identify the error or correct it, she looks it up in the dictionary. Then she makes the corrections from within KP before the error-riddled file is even printed. When it comes time to print, she has a perfect copy to hand in (or near-perfect -- if there are a ridiculous number of errors, I "overlook" some of them -- no sense saddling her with my perfectionism). The editing ability of the computer is a real godsend to her, as she is very awkward with a pencil (another aspect of her LD) and as prissy as she is, she'd balk at handing in a paper with multiple erasures. She also sometimes types sentences containing her word-list vocabulary to help reinforce not only the spelling but also the meaning. Now, if I come up with an angle on the spelling program idea that _hasn't_ already been done, I'll see what I can do about providing it. Watch this space for further developments! ;-) In the meantime, I hope this helps! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 93 Tue Mar 17, 1992 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 10:25 EST I received Multiplay yesterday. Thanks for the Priority Mail Dot! I really appreciate it when I get something I ordered so quickly. I ordered a couple of games from Joppa on the same day I ordered Multiplay (Friday) but I'm still waiting for them. My 6 year old Dexter breezed through several of the addition puzzles (set at 0-29). Then we started on the multiplication which he can handle up through the 3 X _ = ? series. So far he seems to be enjoying the program pretty well. He says they don't use tables in his kindergarten but he has figured out some of the patterns that make determining the next answer a little easier. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 94 Tue Mar 17, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 15:23 EST Ata boy, Dexter! Found some patterns right off the bat! ;-) Glad you are enjoying it already, David. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 95 Mon Apr 13, 1992 MYECK.WATERS [myeck] at 18:26 EDT Gee, Dorothy, according the latest Z*NET, you spent your time at the ACE show demo-ing your KIDPRGS from "behind" a "background" of duplo blocks! How'd you manage that? The one time I met you, at WAACE '91, you didn't strike me as the shy type - certainly not _that_ shy, anyway! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 96 Mon Apr 13, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 20:17 EDT Myeck, I noticed that, too. Z*Net doesn't miss a trick, does it? My ability to demo from behind a background is just another bit of kidprgs magic. I've found this technique places the kidprgs in front of the foreground, so the folks I'm demoing for can see the screen up close and personal. Shy? No, just one more way in which I can demonstrate my incredible thoughtfulness. ;-) Enjoy Multiplay and the KP64 upgrade! Oughta be there by Wednesday, or the Post Office owes us an explanation! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 97 Mon Apr 13, 1992 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 23:56 EDT Do you have a Okimate 20 driver for Kidpublisher? If so, does it use the Okimate's color capabilities? How much does Kidpublisher cost? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 98 Tue Apr 14, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:38 EDT David, we do have a driver that will print screen dumps on the Okimate 20...In fact, it's here in the GEnie ST RT library. Kidpublisher Professional, however, prints only in black and white. Our hope (usually fulfilled) is that the child will spend time offline getting in some fine motor practice with crayons or markers. Kidpublisher Professional version 6.4 lists for $40. The demo in Library 31 is of version 6.2. Our new 6.4, released last month, adds mirror-imaging on the drawing screen, a date on the title page, and a very nifty code feature that encourages kids to write secret messages for decoding within Kidpublisher Pro -- or by hand on paper. If you order it (or any other commercial kidprg), please remind me of your printer type. Orders can be made through GEMail to D.A.BRUMLEVE. Thank you for your interest. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 99 Tue Apr 14, 1992 MUSE [Tomas] at 02:44 EDT David, Dorothy's programs generally use the screen dump function. If you have the OKI_20.PRG in the AUTO folder, you should have no troubles. Dorothy, I enjoy your posts (and your programs) so much I sometimes feel I should send you a shareware payment just for the laughs. See you at Glendale I hope. I'll be working this time! ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 100 Tue Apr 14, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 02:49 EDT Hope to be there, Tomas, kidprgs and all. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 101 Tue Jun 16, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 17:50 EDT Notice to Kidprgs Owners! Kidprgs Version History Some of our programs have been upgraded a number of times both to fix bugs and to add or improve features. Some of the changes represent spectacular enhancements of programs we had once thought were absolutely perfect. While you may still feel that the original version is perfect, believe us when we say: If you don't have the latest version, your kids are missing out! Super Kidgrid for Creative Graphics Design release version 1.6 Kidpainter: A Paint Program for Young Artists release version 2.3 version 2.3a improves text input interface UPGRADE FEE from 2.3: $5 Telegram: The Silly Song Player release version 2.5 Kidpublisher Professional: A Desktop Publishing Program for Young Writers release version 6.1 version 6.2 adds configurability through installation program, 10 pages per document on a 1040 or greater, expanded features on both the drawing and typing screens, improved memory handling version 6.4 adds a date on the title page, mirror-imaging on the drawing screen, coded font set for secret messages version 6.4E fixes a minor bug in 6.4 version 6.4E_A fixes yet another bug in 6.4 UPGRADE FEE from 6.1 or 6.2: $5 UPGRADE FEE from 6.4 or 6.4E: NONE! (free) Multiplay for Math Exploration, Discovery, and Practice release version 3.4 version 3.4A fixes minor bugs version 3.4B fixes a major bug (whew!) UPGRADE FEE from 3.4 or 3.4A: NONE! (free) Version numbers are clearly noted on the _title_screen_ for each program. To obtain your upgrade, please contact D.A.BRUMLEVE in GEMail or call us at 217 337 1937. Remember, when we release an upgrade, we do it to make the program _better_. Give your child the best! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 102 Wed Jun 17, 1992 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:24 EDT Gosh Dorothy, Those upgrade prices are fantastic! ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 104 Mon Jun 22, 1992 D.SMITHRN [Smitty] at 01:07 EDT Dot.... Mike Bergman just old me of your offer....... SDACE thanks you..... Yes we will show them during the SD Show..... Pax Smitty VP, SDACE ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 105 Mon Jun 22, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:46 EDT Smitty, I'll ship 'em a bit closer to the time. Have a good show! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 106 Mon Jun 29, 1992 D.SMITHRN [Smitty] at 01:06 EDT Dot....... A special hug for you anytime!!!! Is there anything that should be brought out when demo'ing the programs? Should we just set up a few computers and just let the kids "play" or should there be some instruction. I remember from the Glendale show you kinda gave instructions to the parents, but the kids picked up the programs rather easily. What I hope to do is this..... I want to show the IBM crowd that there are QUALITY kid programs available, at a reasonable cost. If there is anything you feel is a paticular advantage to the software, can you give me some pointers to emphasize the fact. I hope to give you lots of exposure during the 3 day show..... PAX, Smitty ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 107 Sat Jul 11, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:47 EDT Another desperate user has contacted me in GEMail: he has upgraded from a 9-pin to an HP DeskJet and his printouts from Kidpublisher Professional look like a bunch of gobbly-gook! If you've experienced this problem, please be aware that, courtesy of Chet Walters at WizWorks!, we _do_ most definitely have a printer driver for the entire HP DeskJet/LaserJet line that produces beautiful printouts with our programs! There is no fee for such support, and we can even send the driver to you through GEMail for that instant gratification to stop your child's tears in their tracks! We've never met a printer that couldn't be convinced, one way or another, to produce acceptable printouts with our programs. If you've experienced this problem, please let us know so that we can help. Thanks! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 108 Sat Aug 29, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 13:40 EDT We are looking forward to seeing our loyal customers and recruiting some new ones at two big shows this fall, the Glendale AtariFaire and the WAACE AtariFest. We'll have upgrades available for Kidpublisher Professional 6.4E_A for only $5; check the title screen of your copy for your version number. We are shipping mass quantities of Multiplay, as many, children on both coasts are missing out on exploring the joys of mathematics, and we intend to rectify that. In addition, we'll offer our Learning Games Packet, a collection of PD/shareware programs, for the first time at these shows. We have a new line of Atari-logo rubber stamps and will be happy to tattoo the more adventurous showgoers at no cost. See you there! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 109 Sat Sep 05, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 16:11 EDT Kidpublisher Professional Owners, Wake Up! ;-) The commercial Kidpublisher Professional provides printouts with a picture and accompanying text on every page. An overwhelming percentage of children prefer the picture&text version, but there are some very prolific writers who do not enjoy drawing and there is also sometimes a need to concentrate on writing in classroom use, so a text-only version of the program is made available to owners of the commercial product for an additional $10 fee. The text-only version offers twice the amount of text per printed page (14 lines total) and, of course, there is no picture or drawing screen. A text-only version of Kidpublisher Professional 6.4EB (the very, very latest version) is now available! Like the picture&text version 6.4EB, this text-only version contains the code feature and a date on the title page. It offers two different means of moving from page to page: depending on the parent's choice, the child can turn pages (one page at a time) by simply clicking on the PAGE box, or the child can use a dialog box to move, for example, directly from Page 1A to Page 3B. Owners of any 6.4E version (6.4E, 6.4EA, or 6.4EB) who have already purchased an earlier text-only version will receive the update automatically via US Mail. Owners of any 6.4E version who have never purchased a text-only counterpart may purchase the new text-only version for the usual $10 fee. Owners of any earlier version of Kidpublisher Professional are encouraged to upgrade their picture&text version ($5) before purchasing the text-only version (for an additional $10). If you are confused, don't worry, I'm not. ;-) Please see me in GEMail if there is some question in your mind about which version you have and which version you need/are entitled to. Kidpublisher Professional Update 6.4EB Owners of 6.4E and 6.4EA who have gotten this far will have noticed that there is now a version 6.4EB of the picture&text Kidpublisher Professional. Yes, I found another minor bug. This bug is so extremely trivial that you'll never find it in a million years, so I am not planning to mail out automatic updates. Even so, I'd like as many people as possible to have a perfect copy. I will be sending out the update in GEMail to 6.4E and 6.4EA customers who have GEnie accounts sometime in the next two weeks. If you'd like to receive this update and I may not know that you are a GEnie member, please contact me so that I can add your GEnie address to my database. File transfers on GEnie are not a free service, so many 6.4E and 6.4EA owners may opt not to download the update in any case. (Trust me, it's so trivial that I wouldn't have found it at all if I hadn't been messing with the code to make the text-only version!) There is certainly no obligation on the part of my customers to accept this offer. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 110 Sat Sep 05, 1992 POTECHIN [ Nathan] at 17:43 EDT Thanks for the update Dorothy. I won't even look for the bug. :-) I have no idea what version the kids have. Do you? ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 111 Sat Sep 05, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:53 EDT Well, Nate, you got 6.4E in Toronto, the show at which we discovered the bug that later resulted in 6.4EA. I uploaded the corrected file to you, and if you d/led it, you have 6.4EA. I know you listed that upload, but whether you d/led it and copied it to your kids' disk is between you and your GEnie god... ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 112 Sat Sep 05, 1992 POTECHIN [ Nathan] at 19:00 EDT I always download what I list. :-) Thanks Dorothy. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 113 Thu Oct 01, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 01:07 EDT I have just uploaded (in GEMail) an update to Kidpublisher Professional version 6.4EB for all owners of KP 6.4E with known GEnie addresses. If I missed you, please let me know. Happy publishing! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 114 Thu Oct 01, 1992 POTECHIN [ Nathan] at 21:39 EDT My children thank you Dorothy. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 115 Thu Oct 01, 1992 L.ROCHA1 [Lou (Sysop)] at 23:39 EDT Thank you Dorothy. Michael will love it even more! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 116 Mon Oct 26, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 19:02 EST Just thinking out loud here... Recently, my education consultant's preschool student drew pictures in Kidpainter for use in a matching game. A small segment of the picture is used for the matching process and the full picture is displayed when the match is successful. It would be relatively simple to modify the code to allow any Kidpainter owner to set up his/her children's Kidpainter masterpieces for use in this game. Would there be any interest among Kidpainter owners for this kind of activity? If so, I could upload the game to the library. My son's 1st grade class is studying insects, so I modified the game to provide a matching game with an insect theme. Kids go for insects like the lowly stinkbug, head louse (I don't know about your neighborhood, but every kid in my son's class has personal experience with these!), yellow- jacket, ladybug, etc., so these are the ones included in the program. It's just a simple, unembellished matching game. Would there be any interest in it? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 117 Mon Oct 26, 1992 FAIRWEATHER [David] at 22:58 EST I'd definitely be interested if you could upload the insect pictures along with the game! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 118 Mon Oct 26, 1992 P.MORALES1 [Pat] at 23:20 EST > It's just a simple, unembellished matching game. Would there be any > interest in it? Yes Dorothy, this sounds great and I would be very interested. Thanks for your ongoing support!! Anna ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 119 Mon Oct 26, 1992 R.WALTERS7 [Randy] at 23:30 EST Dot Color me interested !! Regards Randy ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 120 Tue Oct 27, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:42 EST Well, that's 3. Guess I ought to write some docs. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 121 Tue Oct 27, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 19:45 EST Allow me to clarify: the matching game involving insects is _not_ Kidpainter-related. I have uploaded it to the library as File #26295. It is offered as shareware for the benefit of my local public school's ST Fund. The Kidpainter gamemaker provides for a similar matching game, however. Segments of nine Kidpainter PAINT_#.DAT files provide the pictures to be matched; when a match is successful, the entire Kidpainter picture related to that pair is displayed. I will need to put on some finishing touches before it can be readily used by others to make games from their own pictures -- and documentation will be needed. I am not certain how the program will be distributed. It may be available only in file mail to Kidpainter owners and also added to my commercial Kidpainter disks. In any case, Kidpainter will be needed to provide pictures for the program. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 122 Tue Oct 27, 1992 FAIR-DINKUM [Hutch] at 22:20 EST Boy, it really _BUGS_ me why anyone would be interested in pictures of some creepy crawlies! :) Just kidding, Dot... sounds super. Go for it! -Hutch- @ Fair Dinkum Tech ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 123 Mon Dec 28, 1992 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 14:45 EST Moving up to a Falcon030, MegaSTe, TT030? Consider passing your old 520/1040/Mega on to a younger member of the household. Children as young as three can benefit from their own computer -- and age-appropriate software _is_ available! Library 31 is teeming with public domain and shareware offerings for kids 3-11, and D.A. Brumleve's commercial kidprgs offer uniquely powerful applications for self-expression and exploration. Kidpublisher Professional 6.4EB $40 Multiplay 3.4B $40 Kidpainter 2.3A $35 Super Kidgrid 1.6 $25 Telegram 2.5 $25 We welcome your inquiry! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 124 Mon Dec 28, 1992 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 15:00 EST Allow me to completely endorese what Dorothy has said. The only problem I now have is deciding whether to buy more 1040's for my kids so they don't have to argue about turns! Or I could let them use my TT for Kidpublisher and Multiplay ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 125 Tue Dec 29, 1992 R.NOAK at 07:01 EST Dorothy is absolutely right. Let the kids "play". In their play, they learn! I spent many a "quality" hour with my daughter in front of my 1040. First we played, "Find the Bee", then moved to commericial and PD "games". She's pretty good now and needs little help to do things by herself. I _highly_ reccommend Kid Painter from D.A.Brumleve. After 2 years, it's still my daughter's favorite! She got it when she was 3 and, at 5, is, from a parent's viewpoint, pretty good! One nice thing about Kid Painter is that, after the child has drawn a picture, they can convert it into a puzzle! Buy it, you'll like it! Randy @ Southlake, Inc. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 126 Sat Jan 02, 1993 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 13:20 EST One more echo to Dorothy's "give the ST to the kids" recommendation. There are MANY good children's programs for the ST. You just might not be aware of them if you haven't taken the time to look. Of course, Dorothy's lead the pack ... and not just for preschoolers! -- Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 128 Mon Feb 15, 1993 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:11 EST Kidprgs and VERY Young Children Kim Swift bought Kidpainter for his grade-school-aged daughter and now finds his 2-year-old son wanting to play the Puzzle Screen to solve onscreen puzzles. Problem is, Kidpainter was designed for children ages 5-11, the vast majority of whom can tell left from right, and 2-year-olds (including this one) can't. When you place a puzzle piece on the Puzzle Screen, you use the left mouse button. You use the right mouse button to escape from the puzzle mode. Uh-oh. ;-) The left-right thing is used consistently throughout Kidpainter to place or not place drawing functions; since this is the way most adult drawing programs also work, this feature in Kidpainter provides for transition between preschool programs and adult programs, and I wouldn't want to lose that consistency in the commercial release version. However, I have designed a special version which does away with the left-right differentiation on the Puzzle Screen so that it can be used by very young children. In all versions of Kidpainter, it is possible to end work on a puzzle by clicking either button while the mouse is out in the options area on the left-hand side of the screen. In this special version, you can also press to end work, as Kim suggested. And of course I've changed it so that either the right or left mouse button (or both) will cause placement of a puzzle piece when the mouse is over the grid area. If you are a Kidpainter owner whose very young children would prefer to use either button on the Puzzle Screen, please contact me in GEMail for your copy of this special version. We avoid differentiated mouse button response in all programs aimed for use by preschoolers. Some of my older programs available here in Library 31 don't include this feature, but most do. We have a collection of 11 programs which have been reworked, enhanced, and otherwise prepared for independent use by preschoolers. The Creative Discovery Packet sells for $120 (yes, really!) and includes special versions of Frank Hundley's Barnyard and Seaside, Ken Kressin's About the House, and my own Dot-2-Dots, Makin' Aiken, Dreidel, Tannenbaum, Kidkeys (originally another module from PreSchool KidProgs), Kidshapes, Super Kidgrid, and Kidpotato. This package would be right on target for almost any child ages 2-6. The mouse button problem is not the only one encountered by young children when attempting to use programs designed for those with more sophisticated skills. Our commercial line benefits from years of observation of children working with computers, and we've developed a consistent format and style which children can productively exploit even upon the first introduction to a program. We strive to provide activities that make sense to young children. We limit the number of options to avoid confusion. Our programs for preschoolers provide large targets for the mouse so it's easy for young children to hit them. When an option is chosen, our programs provide both auditory and visual indicators of the selection. Over the years, we have developed a color-coding system which helps non-readers (and readers, too) to move from one of our programs to another (the SAVE option is always red, PRINT is always bright greeen, etc.; this system is consistently employed in each and every one of our commercial products. Our programs also provide for automatic loading and saving so that non-readers do not have to hassle with the fileselector. Features such as these speed the child's way to complete independence from adult help when using the computer -- and that's a big boost to the child's self-esteem and the parents' freedom. Sometimes you may run into programs by other authors in which the mouse button response is differentiated but the program would otherwise be accessible to a young child. When this happens in the schools I work with, we place a sticker on the left mouse button and tell the child to always press the sticker. Because there is a tactile sensation when the finger makes contact with the sticker, the child doesn't have to look down at the mouse to make sure he's pressing the proper button. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 129 Thu Mar 04, 1993 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 15:19 EST Kidpublisher Professional users, please HELP! A customer who owns a Panasonic KXP1123 printer is experiencing considerable difficulty in printing from Kidpublisher Professional. Using the various screen dump drivers I've supplied, his printouts consistently provide an elongated copy -- elongated to the point that the picture and text will not fit comfortably on a single sheet. Locally, I have customers using Panasonic's KXP2123 printers (a step up from the faulty-printing model) with the default settings and these same drivers with complete success. Unfortunately, I do not have access to a genuine KXP1123 model for testing. I would very much appreciate it if KXP1123 owners among my customers would let me know how -- and if -- they are achieving proper single-sheet printouts. Please contact me in GEMail. Thank you! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 130 Sun Mar 14, 1993 G.GENSON at 17:45 EST I have been trying to get Kid Publisher to print with my new HP Laserjet printer. Am I doing something wrong or is the program incompatible with the printer. Is there an upgrade planned for the program? Any help would be appreciated. Gerry Genson ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 131 Sun Mar 14, 1993 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 17:50 EST Gerry, your new Laserjet will work just fine with Kidpublisher Pro, but you'll need a special printer driver (available thanks to Chet Walters of WizWorks!) to make it so. See you in GEMail pronto! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 132 Sun Mar 14, 1993 C.STEWARD1 at 23:27 EST We've failed today to print out a four page Kid Pub on a Pan 24 pin 1224 printer. Before now, nine pin (which died) was fine. It fails, in sum, to advance the carriage more than a quarter of what's necessary. I'll give more details tomorrow. (I have a HPLJ4 -- any luck with The Kid on it, do you think? ps.s gret program ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 133 Mon Mar 15, 1993 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:18 EST The 24pins need a special driver to succeed with Kidpublisher Pro, too, Clifford. You see, Kidpublisher -- and all of my other programs -- effect a printout via a screen dump. DEGAS drivers and other screen dump drivers are necessary to convince some printers to do a proper screen dump. You had good luck with the 9pin because most 9pins effect a proper screen dump with no driver at all. A word here to parents (and others) who are purchasing a system for a child or handing one down: A 9pin printer is a _very_ good choice for a child. A 9pin provides a printout to a child's not-so-exacting specs. In screen dumps, the printout is essentially indistinguishable from that printed by a laser or a 24pin -- and the 9pin will usually produce that printout in under 3 minutes, while a 24pin is likely to take 7 or more! Impatient children (and nearly all of them are) will appreciate the fast turnaround a 9pin provides. The beauty of this is that 9pins are going for a song nowadays. You may not find any new ones for sale (though I've seen a few advertised around $150 locally lately), but you will find plenty of them on the used hardware market, including here in Category 27. Typical 9pin prices (used) are around the $50 mark. Use the extra cash you save to load up on paper! ;-) Clifford, I'll send you a likely driver in GEMail. Anybody else having trouble? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 134 Tue Mar 16, 1993 C.STEWARD1 at 01:35 EST The LQ driver worked at 1 am before the 8 am 2nd grade deadline. Thanks very much from this father and daughter. Interesting details to follow on the 'morrow. The pillow calls. But I'm more grateful than sleepy. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 135 Tue Mar 16, 1993 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 02:07 EST Way to go! Sorry you had such a close call. ;-) Good night. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 136 Sat Mar 20, 1993 J.KRZYSZTOW [JEFFREY] at 12:20 EST Dorthy, I have been trying to get SuperKid Grid to print on a 24 pin printer with no luck, so any driver you have to try will be greatly appreciated. Jeffrey ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 137 Sat Mar 20, 1993 D.A.BRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 13:58 EST Jeffrey, I'll see you in mail. So far, there's only been one individual 24- pin not to respond to proding, and I think we are on a promising path regarding that one. Folks, some of my 24-pin-owning customers have been able to use my programs (and achieve Alt-Help screen dumps as well) simply by putting the printer in "IBM mode". See if this does it for you! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 138 Mon Jun 07, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 01:39 EDT Attention, please, kidprgs users with HP Laserjet II printers: A customer with this setup is trying to use Chet Walters' HP_DUMP (the screen dump utility especially designed for kidprgs) to effect a printout from Kidpublisher Pro. His printout works fine in that the picture and text are well-proportioned and properly centered, but the areas that are supposed to be white are, instead, gray! I suspected an overdose of toner at first, but his non-screendump printouts have white where white is supposed to be. Has anyone else experienced this anomaly? If so, is there a means of correction? My HP-owning customers have been using HP_DUMP for over two years, and this is the first time I've heard of this particular problem. I don't have access to an HP LJII to run tests. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 139 Mon Jun 07, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 22:29 EDT Dorothy, Is HP_RSAVE the same thing? I use this on a DJ500. ===Tomas=== June 07, 1993 @ 7:20:32 pm PDT ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 140 Mon Jun 07, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 23:19 EDT Tomas, if Chet wrote it, it's essentially the same. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 141 Tue Jun 08, 1993 S.KIEPE [Steve@CNOTES] at 00:14 EDT Dorthy, I recently acquired a new laser printer (NEC Silentwriter 95F - LJIII or postscript) and my Deskjet with it's Epson emulation cartridge departed for a new owner. My kids still love Kidpublisher Pro and are a little angry with me right now. Have there been any LJ printer drivers written for Kidpub Pro? Any other suggestions? Thanks much, Steve ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 142 Tue Jun 08, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:20 EDT Dorothy, Yes, it's Chet's. It saves to a filename too. Perhaps it is more refined. ===Tomas=== June 07, 1993 @ 9:15:28 pm PDT ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 143 Tue Jun 08, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 01:39 EDT Steve, I'll send you the needed file tomorrow. It's easy -- as long as you don't run into the same isolated problem as my customer with the LJII. :-( Anyway, many other LJIII users are handling it successfully. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 144 Tue Jun 08, 1993 HUTCH [FAIR-DINKUM] at 02:40 EDT Dorothy -- I used to include Chet Walters' shareware program, TTPRSAVE with my programs as an HP screen dump utility. On my old trusty deskjet, it never printed whites as greys. Steve -- Now here's proof that great minds think alike! I just traded MY deskjet with Epson cart for an NEC Silentwriter 95fx. Of course, I kept my old, but still trustworthy, Epson FX dot matrix unit. :) -Hutch- @ Fair Dinkum Tech ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 145 Tue Jun 08, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 10:23 EDT Hutch, yes, this problem has NEVER come to my attention before! I think it's pretty safe to assume that gray white areas are unique to the one system. However, this fellow gets screen dumps outside of my programs --using the same utility -- that do have proper white. I talked to him again last night and he's checking the version number. He may just have a bad copy of my program...sometimes a bad copy is only a tiny bit bad. It's certainly a rare problem, and I'm grateful for that. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 146 Thu Jun 10, 1993 S.KIEPE [Steve@CNOTES] at 07:19 EDT Dorothy, Thanks much for the assist on the LJIII printing capability. Right after I sent the message I noticed that your topic came alive with lots of comments on screen dumps to LJ printers, etc. Aladdin lag again... I do appreciate the help (it will save me from the wrath of my kids!) Hutch - how has the transition been for you? I'm finding most programs are fairly cooperative, and I love the Postscript output from PageStream, but haven't gotten the programs that do screendumps to print to work properly yet. Dorothy has agreed to help with that one at least so I'm mostly compatible, or will be soon. Steve ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 147 Thu Jun 10, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 19:27 EDT Steve, the HP_DUMP program was modified by Chet Walters especially for use with my programs. But Chet has a user-configurable version with many additional features available as shareware for $15. The information on this is included in a textfile in the LZH I sent you. I would encourage you to pursue the full version if you need screendumps when using other programs. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 148 Thu Jun 10, 1993 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 23:43 EDT Dorothy, Sounds like the ST _thinks_ the screen isn't white, but off-white. I think that'd give the "gray" dump. Since your program controls the colors, it'd make sense that (just as you said) "a bad copy only a tiny 'bit' bad". A bit (or 2) in just the right place could cause the color setting to be off. Has he noticed that the _screen_ isn't as white as possible when he's running your program? -- Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 149 Fri Jun 11, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 09:21 EDT That's just what I'm thinking, Harry. The "white" page in KP is set to 6,6,6 (r,g,b -- never noticed the implications of that setting before!) during all phases of the program except printing -- when it is reset to 7,7,7 (true white). It looks like his copy isn't performing that reset. Stuff like this can happen now and then in the copy process if something real tiny goes wrong. I've never seen this particular weirdness before, but I've had a couple copies that bombed when you pressed and it had nothing to do with the code I had written, but rather with the copy process I used at that time. I switched to CodeCopy from the 'Heads at that time and hadn't experienced a freak copy since. This one may predate that copy-program change -- or it could have been caused by a solar flare or something. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 150 Sun Jun 13, 1993 S.KIEPE [Steve@CNOTES] at 18:20 EDT Dorothy, Thank you for sending the file. I haven't looked at it yet, on my way to the CT Atarifest as we speak. I will send Chet the shareware fee (unless WizWorks is at the show - then I will get it there! Thanks again for the GREAT support! Steve ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 151 Sun Jun 13, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 19:19 EDT Have a good time at the show, Steve. For future show-goers, please drop by our (D.A. Brumleve ;-) booth in Kansas City on June 26-27 and in Indianapolis on July 31. Hope to see a lot of folks there! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 152 Tue Jun 22, 1993 HUTCH [FAIR-DINKUM] at 00:52 EDT Steve -- To be honest, I miss the Epson compatibility but like everything else with my Silentwriter. I haven't even tried a screendump from the ST to NEC yet, but I'm sure it would work with Chet Walter's TTPRSAVE program for HP compatible printers. Heck, I haven't even hooked up the fax in the printer yet. Too busy with other projects, ya know? -Hutch- @ Fair Dinkum Tech ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 153 Wed Jul 28, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 19:49 EDT Looking forward to seeing my customer's at the MIST show Saturday! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 154 Mon Nov 15, 1993 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 02:02 EST Dorothy, I just got a TT030. What are my chances of getting your kidprgs to run? Are they compatible (in ST Low, I assume). I _COULD_ just try them. But I thought I'd check with you first. BTW, we still have an ST for bonnie to use. So the kidprgs will still be used regardless. -- Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 155 Mon Nov 15, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 08:54 EST Harry, I think you have the latest versions of all, so they should run without a hitch on your TT030 in ST Low. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 156 Tue Nov 16, 1993 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 01:52 EST Super! Now I just have to decide when the time'll be right to let Bonnie in on the little secret. :) She was very surprised to see that my new computer has a color monitor. But she hasn't asked about using it herself .... yet. -- Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 157 Fri Nov 26, 1993 K.SWIFT [Kim] at 01:32 EST Dear Dorothy Brumleve and fellow Kidpainter users, I have just uploaded a gallery of 9 pictures my daughter Brenna created using Kidpainter. I have uploaded them in hopes you will enjoy them too. The file number is to be 30846. I included "Kidpainter" and "kidprg" in the search keywords. The pictures make good puzzle pictures! The titles are: "Rainbow over Pikes Peak", "Animal with Antlers in the Tetons", "Bear with Bow (for coloring)", "Dinosaurs with Volcano", "Rainbow-colored Wing Bird, Mountains, Smiling Tree", "Smiling Pikes Peak (King of Mountains) with Fairy", "Castle with Carriage", "Pretty Flowers by the Tetons", and "Rose with Flowers, Tree". Thanks, Dorothy Brumleve, for creating Kidpainter. I plan to upload a number of other "galleries" of pictures we have created. The title of this upload is "GALLERYI.ARC", in the Children's Applications library, library 31. May the innocence and beauty of childhood always be with you, Kim Swift ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 158 Fri Nov 26, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 11:38 EST Kim: I just placed them out. Thank you ever so much! They are wonderful. I can't wait to show my children when they get home from school! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 159 Fri Nov 26, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 15:19 EST Hey, Brenna, awesome work! ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 160 Mon Nov 29, 1993 K.SWIFT [Kim] at 00:38 EST Dear Dorothy Brumleve and fellow Kidpainter users, My daughter Brenna will reply soon, but we're both delighted that Darlah and Dorothy Brumleve and others have looked at the first "gallery" we uploaded! Brenna is excited and happy that other people are looking at her pictures. Darlah and Dorothy, thanks for your nice messages. I've just uploaded a second gallery of some of my favorite pictures from Brenna's current work including one she did today which she wanted me to upload! (What have I gotten myself into?) The file number is to be 30904. I hope you enjoy them too. This gallery contains the following pictures: "Jack- o-lantern with bat, stars and moon", "Bunny with rainbow, heart", "The Snow Fairy", "Bunny and squirrel with acorn tree and flowers", "Firebird (with caterpillar on plant, lake)", "Just me and my kitty (with comet ball)", "Greenhouse", "Brenna and turkey", "Aquarium with butterfly, snail and worm (painted 11/28/93)". So I don't flood this area with postings, after this gallery, I'll go ahead and upload the remaining ones I want to and post a message for that set. I hope to see some galleries from other Kidpainters. Happy Kidpainting! Kim Swift ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 161 Mon Nov 29, 1993 K.SWIFT [Kim] at 00:42 EST P. S. The title of the gallery I just uploaded is "GALLERY2.ARC" in the Children's Applications library, library 31. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 162 Mon Nov 29, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 11:27 EST Kim: My youngest is going to be checking them out today. Thanks ever so much!! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 163 Mon Nov 29, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:20 EST Kim, I just d/led the new pics and will take a look as soon as I get offline. Thanks for sharing them! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 164 Tue Nov 30, 1993 J.MOLNAR4 [Neanderthal] at 22:58 EST Hello, I'm looking for something extra for my 3 year old daughter for this Christmas, she's already typing on my word processor, and using some simplistic software on my DOS machine which has her push keys to get a Mickey Mouse to do things. What amazed me the most is after only showing her once she was able to position the mouse on the "cancel" button and press the left mouse button. She thought it was loads of fun (I had lots of fun too re-doing my work). Anyway I think (at least she) is capable of a lot more than we give them credit for. I'm looking for something like Kidpainter, or maybe you can recommend something else of yours. Although I live in Massachusetts, a meca of commerce and computers, there's a scarce few Atari dealers here. A few random calls to advertisers in ST Informer tells me not everyone carries childrens software. Any suggestions where I can buy (maybe direct)? Thanks Joe P.S. Although I've read back messages in this area I could still use a list of your products with a brief description of each, or a catalog if you've got one. P.P.S. Or a current price list, at least. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 165 Sun Dec 05, 1993 K.SWIFT [Kim] at 00:21 EST Dear Dorothy Brumleve and fellow Kidpainter users, To Darlah and Dorothy: you're most welcome. It has been my pleasure to gather up the paintings I've uploaded. The paintings make me smile. To all: I really am hoping to see some paintings from other Kidpainters! I've just uploaded a third gallery of some of my favorite paintings from Brenna's work. I hope you enjoy them too. The file is to be file number 30984 and is in the Children's Applications library, library 31. This gallery contains the following paintings: "mmm...spaghetti", "Whale with sand castle", "Brenna with stream", "Beautiful flowers, mountains", "Vase", "Easter Bunny", "Hurricane", "'Me and my Mom'", and "umum...ice cream cone". Happy Kidpainting! Kim Swift P. S. I decided that since I'm not cranking these galleries out all that fast I'd go ahead and post this message without risk of "flooding" this area with messages. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 166 Fri Dec 10, 1993 J.VENGROUSK1 at 21:09 EST If you haven't , give TOAD COMPUTERS in MD a call. I have another ATARI store very near me... but i drive the highway 40 minutes to TOAD caus they're THAT nice and wortht the trouble to give them my business. they help, they know, they work well, they ship (they have FALCONS!) they have parties! (like last week.. i now know what Dave Small looks like!). I'm about to search out a second ST system for my 4 yr old.... any hints out there? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 167 Fri Dec 10, 1993 K.SWIFT [Kim] at 23:33 EST Dear Dorothy Brumleve and fellow Kidpainter users, I've just uploaded a fourth gallery of some of my favorite paintings from Brenna's work. I hope you enjoy them too. The file, "GALLERY4.ARC", is to be file number 31046 and is in the Children's Applications library, library 31. This gallery contains the following paintings: "Rainbow over mountain", "Seta (Mommy) in gown", "Presents under the Christmas tree (painted 12/5/93)", "Pretty girl", "Rosie", "Smiling Fish", "Mermaid", "Brenna (self portrait 1)", and "Hide- and-seek". Happy Kidpainting! Kim Swift ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 168 Tue Dec 14, 1993 K.SWIFT [Kim] at 00:04 EST Dear Dorothy Brumleve, Is it possible to use Kidpainter paintings in a Kidpublisher document? If so, then the galleries of Kidpainter paintings I have uploaded could be "clip art" for Kidpublisher users. Could you please implement a "Load" feature in a Kidpainter upgrade as soon as possible? The task of managing my daughter's collection would be easier with a "Load" feature. In order to save my daughter's paintings and collect them for uploading and saving them, I've had to keep a dedicated set of approximately 50 floppy disks. Then when my daughter creates a painting I want to save, which she always does, I have to grab the next available save floppy and let her save it. Several weeks or months later I have to suffer through copying from the floppies to hard drive folders. Then I copy Kidpainter executable and startup files to each folder, invoke Kidpainter in each folder and start writing down which paintings are which. At least the "Load" feature would keep me from having to invoke Kidpainter each time I want to look at a new set of paintings. Finally I have to copy the unique paintings again to new folders along with the executable and startup files. The best solution would be parent-friendly "Load" and "Save" options which allow for specifying hard drive paths!!! The installation program could allow for choosing kid-friendly or parent-friendly options on the "Load" and "Save". Please help! I love my daughter's paintings and the Kidpainter interface that has made them possible, but the current "Save" only approach is a burdensome chore for the parent who is managing a collection of paintings. Also, for the Kidpainter users who want to browse through paintings, the "Load" feature would mean they don't have to invoke Kidpainter repeatedly to change "galleries". Kim Swift ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 169 Sun Dec 26, 1993 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 12:33 EST Hmmm...I checked this topic just a week ago and there were no new messages, then today I see new messages from way back on Nov 30! I apologize for my lack of response. I'm not sure what happened. Anyway, Kim, your LOAD request is noted...I think it's already in the beta version of the new KPT, but I'll make sure. And thanks for the uploads of your galleries! I'm afraid the picture size is not compatible between Kidpainter and Kidpublisher Pro...I know, I know, it's something we considered and then wound up discarding early on, and the path is set. But users can use your picture files in their own copies of Kidpainter of course. Joe, your local dealer (if any) can order my products from Pacific Software. Toad stocks my products for mail-order customers. And, yes, I do sell direct. I regret that I can no longer offer my direct customers MasterCard/VISA support, but I can take checks in advance by mail (P.O. Box 4195 / Urbana IL 61801) or ship COD. We sell only at list price, so you are much more likely to find discounted copies at dealers (mail-order or otherwise), and we encourage purchases from dealers. I would suggest Super Kidgrid for your daughter for starters, but Kid- painter might suit. Happy Holidays to all! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 170 Fri Jan 07, 1994 K.SWIFT [Kim] at 02:47 EST Dear Dorothy Brumleve and fellow Kidpainter users, I've just uploaded a gallery of my own paintings, gallery5.arc. I hope you enjoy them. (My daughter Brenna helped on "Hide-and-seek 2".) The other night, my three-year-old son Cory kid-tested and kid-approved all of them as good puzzles! The file is to be file number 31537 and is in the Children's Applications library, library 31. This gallery contains the following paintings: "Fisherman on Boat", "Jack-o- lantern", "Truck and Mountain", "Hide-and-seek 2", "Patterns", "Shapes", "Mount Shavano, Colorado", "Orbiter", "Mount Roadster". I'm thrilled that people have downloaded the galleries. Here's a count of the downloads so far: gallery1.arc 12 gallery2.arc 9 gallery3.arc 12 gallery4.arc 9 My personal favorite is gallery 2 though of course I like each one. I think each gallery has its own overall feel. I do recommend that anybody who has not downloaded gallery 2 do so. In my humble opinion, you're in for a real treat. Thanks for your reply, Dorothy, about the "Load" feature in the new version of Kidpainter. I am eagerly awaiting its release. Happy Kidpainting! Kim Swift ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 171 Fri Jan 07, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:58 EST Ohmygod! Through this upload, Kim is admitting that he uses his children's programs _himself_! No wonder you want those enhancements so bad, Kim. You'll be pleased to know that my next product saves in Degas format. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 172 Sat Jan 08, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:23 EST Dorothy, > ...he uses his children's programs _himself_! Uh, huh. So, what's yer point? This is the generation of dads and moms that are making sure their kids learn to use a computer and that means we have to check these things out very carefully. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 173 Sat Jan 08, 1994 K.SWIFT [Kim] at 15:58 EST :) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 174 Sun Jan 09, 1994 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 03:04 EST Tomas is right! It often takes days .... or months .... to be sure your kid's new software is OK before turning over the reins. -- Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 175 Sun Jan 09, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 13:18 EST Harry, you put that soooo well! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 176 Sun Jan 09, 1994 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 22:52 EST Dorothy, Do you have any new kidprojects in the works? Even something that might allow you to say "Yes" without revealing any details? -- Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 177 Mon Jan 10, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:23 EST Harry, currently in the last stages of beta-testing is MathArt (tentative), a Paint Program for Young Mathematicians, kind of a combination of all my previous math/art programs in effect, though not in implementation. It's based on that "string art" I used to do in geometry class in junior high, connecting points to form angles and create designs. My beta- testers are suggesting expansion, so that may delay release a bit, though I still expect it out this quarter. You'll be thrilled to know that this program saves paintings in Degas format. The current version includes a drawing screen with several grid types to start from, a painting screen for embellishment of one's string art with color, and a slide show screen for viewing previously-painted drawings. We'll see what more the betas come up with and I'll announce it when it's set to ship! Another product in beta (now several months in beta and little progress) is an update to Kidpainter. Two versions are being tested with school children in an effort to choose between interface options. Frankly, my consultant and I aren't satisfied with either interface, and we are hoping for a brainstorm. Meanwhile, the kids don't seem to have too hard a time with either, but neither is as obvious as the original release and it takes time to explore. The versions differ only in interface. Both offer additional "games" and experimentation screens beyond what was available in the original. It's getting a bit too complicated. ;-) I'll keep you posted if we make real progress. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 178 Tue Jan 11, 1994 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 00:59 EST Dorothy, Glad to hear you've still got something up your sleeve. -- Harry ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 179 Tue Jan 11, 1994 P.NEREO [Philip] at 22:51 EST Suggestion for Kidpainter - My kids really like the 'rubber stamp' type thing that can be done with Doodle for Atari or Kidpix for the Mac - I mean the pre- designed stamps. It doesn't seem to squash their creativity - after they go crazy using them the first few times, they get used to them and insert some into the drawings here and there. We enjoy kidpublisher and the Math program, too. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 180 Tue Jan 11, 1994 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 23:30 EST Dot, So _that's_ where you've been hiding these past months! It's good to hear from you again (well, I know you've posted a few times, but it's nice to know what's been keeping you so busy...) Back to work with you, then! John ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 181 Wed Jan 12, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:22 EST Philip, are you aware that Kidpainter allows kids to design their own rubber stamps? Yes, John, back to work... ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 182 Fri Jan 14, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 00:26 EST Dorothy, Does MathArt or the KidPainter upgrade support the Falcon VGA modes? Regards, Bruce ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 183 Fri Jan 14, 1994 P.NEREO [Philip] at 00:39 EST Dot - Yes I am aware of the make your own rubber stamp feature; and it's very much appreciated. But the kids love the pre designed rubber stamps even more! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 184 Fri Jan 14, 1994 GENIELAMP.ST [John G] at 00:51 EST ^ | sound of whip snapping... John ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 185 Sat Jan 15, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 13:50 EST Bruce, not yet...These programs _do_ run on the Falcon, but only in ST Low. If there's enough demand, we'll consider other resolutions. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 186 Sun Jan 16, 1994 B.KANTOR [Bruce] at 11:10 EST kidprgs, Add one VGA request to you list; I dislike switching resolutions. Thats the reason I currently do not own any of your software. If it was compatible, I would buy it. Regards, Bruce ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 187 Sun Mar 06, 1994 K.SWIFT [Kim] at 22:59 EST Dear Dorothy Brumleve and fellow Kidpainter users, I've just uploaded a gallery of early childhood paintings, gallery6.arc. I hope you enjoy them. My daughter Brenna painted all of them except "Little Ghost", which my son Cory painted with my help. Brenna named all of her paintings and Cory named his. The file is to be file number 32162 and is in the Children's Applications library, library 31. This gallery contains the following paintings: "Mr. Fruit Salad", "Little Liza Jane", "Kim", "Little Ghost", "Mr. Haase", "Tree by Mountains", "Mr. Rock 'n Roll", "Circles with Cory", "Snail with Flower". Happy Kidpainting! Kim Swift ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 188 Sun Mar 06, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 23:12 EST Cory's getting in on it, too? Great to hear! Is Mr. Haase a rabbit or some neighbor guy? Guess I'll have to d/l it and find out. Thanks for contributing, Kim! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 189 Sun Mar 06, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 23:16 EST To those who were expecting the launch of MathArt: A Paint Program for Young Mathematicians this month, please note that my beta testers are still suggesting changes/enhancements. I think I'll let the schools work with it a bit more so I can offer you the best possible version. Except for those changes, it is done, manual and all, so I can go quickly to press as soon as we are satisfied we've taken it as far as it should go. Watch for it (likely) next quarter. Thank you for your patience. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 190 Sat Apr 23, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 00:09 EDT ATTENTION: FALCON-OWNING CUSTOMERS! If you've experienced problems printing with my products on your Falcon, I have a solution...thanks to a little help from my friends. Boot your Falcon in ST High and switch to ST Low through the "Compatibility Mode" selection on the Desktop before running the desired kidprg. Given that you are using a printer in an Epson- compatible mode, your printer should provide you with a proper printout when you select the PRINT option within my programs. Do not use GET_DEFS.ACC in your boot scenario; it is incompatible with the Falcon. Instead, set XCONTROL's printer configuration to 960 pixels/line and save that setting. This will ensure that your printout isn't "cut off" on the right but rather is printed in full on your 8 1/2" x 11" paper. Please advise me here or in GEMail if you experience any further problems. Please note: These advisories apply only to the Falcon. ST users may ignore it in peace. ;-) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 191 Thu May 12, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:58 EDT Cannon Bubblejet 200 users: If you've had success in evoking a screen dump from your printer, please note your approach here. A user is having trouble with Kidpublisher Pro, and I don't have this printer available for tests. Thank you. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 192 Fri May 13, 1994 MIKE-ALLEN [NM~SysOp] at 14:20 EDT Dot, If the BJ is running in the 'native' mode or the IBM ProPrinter (X24E) mode a normal screen dump should work. The Epson MX/FX codes are a subset of the X24E mode. Of course your screen dump will still be at the MX/FX resolution. If I can be of any help, holler. I have a BJ-300 and have a local friend with a BJ-200, so we can test some things out for you. Mike Allen ST HelpDesk~Sysop Written: 11:57 AM Mountain Time Friday, May 13, 1994 ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 193 Sat May 14, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 11:56 EDT Thanks, Mike. We'll see if my customer has good luck down this path. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 194 Tue May 17, 1994 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 07:50 EDT Hi! Thanks Dot for the reply to my GEnie mail. My problem is that now that we are using the Falcon with a BJ200 printer I can't get the print function to work in Kidpublisher. Clicking on print brings up some screen activity and then returns me to the desktop. I have tried screen dunmps - but on the Falcon it will only work if I use Iamagecopy2 and then the print out is not satisfactory. I am hoping someone with a Falcon could clue me in on how to get printouts. KenO. :) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 195 Tue May 17, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 12:21 PDT KenO, In what way are your Imagecopy 2 printouts "not satisfactory"? ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 196 Tue May 17, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 18:31 EDT Aha! You have a new printer...and you _also_ have a new computer! Ken, please read message 190 here in Cat 29, Topic 6 for instructions concerning printing problems on the Falcon030. Some folks encounter problems, while others never do, but when the effect is that which you've experienced, the thing to do is to boot the computer in ST High, which causes Alt-Help (and XBIOS(20) in my programs) to deliver a screen dump. Now, if you still have problems with the printout after you actually have one to look at, please try the IBM emulation mode Mike mentioned above. Let us know if you achieve success (or not!) ! ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 197 Wed May 18, 1994 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 19:27 EDT Hi! Yep if I boot in High then change to Low I can get a print or screen dump. Thats good. I did not know I could get a screen dump that way. But if I use Imagecopy2 with screen dump or print I get "not enough mem to print screen." Thanks KenO. :) ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 198 Sat Jun 11, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 21:58 EDT I can confirm that I absolutely will be debuting a new program at the MIST AtariFest, July 23, 1994, in Indianapolis! The product is very nearly ready to go to press! The program is entitled MathArt: A Paint Program for Young Mathematicians. The emphasis is decidedly on paint. Math comes in the form of geometric shapes which provide the basis for line designs and later adornment with color. It will appeal to a wide age range and is recommended for children ages 3-11. MathArt's inspiration stems from the string art projects my geometry teacher forced upon me in junior high: dots along one axis of a basic shape, say, a cross, are connected to dots along another axis to form a variety of designs. Overlapping lines provide the effect of curves. String art was, for me, a clumsy and frustrating activity. The computer does away with the awkward string and nails and substitutes editing at the click of a mouse, thus encouraging experimentation with the potential of line designs. Vivid color enhances the design effects. The program offers three grid shapes: a 4-quadrant cross, a 3-segment cross, and a circle. A Main Screen facilitates movement between the Drawing Screen, the Painting Screen, and the Art Gallery Screen. Up to 3 designs of each of the three grid shapes can be stored in memory (and on disk) at a time. An unlimited number of painted designs can be saved to disk as .PI1 files; these can be reloaded and repainted within MathArt, or they can be further manipulated with any DEGAS Elite-compatible paint program. The program runs from a hard disk or floppies on any ST-family computer in ST Low resolution. Printing requires a printer which accepts an ST screen dump. Like all commercial kidprgs, MathArt is supplied with an Installation Program which assists parents in teachers in customizing a child's copy according to the child's needs and interests. MathArt will list for a retail price of US$40, but we'll offer an attractive discount to MIST AtariFest attendees. No advance orders please. Folks who are unable to attend the AtariFest will find MathArt on their dealer's shelves at approximately the same time. ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 199 Sun Jun 12, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:51 EDT Dot, It's great to see you are still going strong with your wonderful programs for kids. Al ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 200 Sun Jun 12, 1994 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 12:09 EDT Congratulations, Dorothy! Will you be accepting advance email orders for MathArt before the show? ------------ Category 29, Topic 6 Message 201 Sun Jun 12, 1994 DABRUMLEVE [kidprgs] at 13:08 EDT Well, Lou, you can _ask_, but I won't accept money until it ships, thanks. ;-) ------------