========================================================================= (C) 1993 by Atari Corporation, GEnie, and the Atari Roundtables. May be reprinted only with this notice intact. The Atari Roundtables on GEnie are *official* information services of Atari Corporation. To sign up for GEnie service, call (with modem) 800-638-8369. Upon connection type HHH (RETURN after that). Wait for the U#= prompt.Type XTX99437,GENIE and press [RETURN]. The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== Category 2, Topic 27 Message 1 Thu Jun 11, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 05:03 EDT Don Clifton is the author of SpiritWare's Bible Concordance program as well as the fantastic SpiritEd desk accessory text editor. Both programs were recently upgraded (June 92) and as a shareware package goes, the SpiritWare products are fantastic with a fine printed manual and professional disk labels --- some commercial software vendors could learn from SpiritWare! Although these two applications are extremely friendly and easy to use, if one doesn't register them to receive a manual and read through it, some program features will never be realized. This topic is to discuss the SpiritWare products in an effort to provide online support as well as to encourage people to register the program. I (L.DOWDLE1) am not affilitated with the Fifteenth Avenue Bible Church or SpiritWare... but am a happy end user who would like to see other happy end users. The program author (Don Clifton) can be contacted here on GEnie @ D.CLIFTON4. Enjoy... and if you don't have much to add to the discussion, at least let us know that you use the program! OK? ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 2 Thu Jun 11, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:26 EDT Scott, I received advertising about two new versions, but the original description arrived some time back, and I forgot what the difference was when the release notice for version 2.2 came, so I don't know if I should wait for version 3.0 or not. I know version 3.0 has some features I won't use, but I'm not sure what it has that version 2.2 lacks, aside from the Greek, that I can use. I'm happy to see the topic, and hope Don tunes in occasionally. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 3 Thu Jun 11, 1992 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 20:28 EDT I downloaded the files last night, and after but a brief look, I've got to say this is one fine package. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 4 Fri Jun 12, 1992 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 00:37 EDT Scott, As a registered user of 2.13 I'm happy to concur with your comments. It is one fine piece of shareware! I downloaded 2.2 and haven't found out what the difference is (i.e. 2.13 to 2.2). Version 3.0 is GDOS (FontGdos) compatible for printing greek text. John GEnieLamp ST Co-Editor P.S. Thanks for the fine work on you REMOTE.BTS update! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 5 Fri Jun 12, 1992 CHERRY.FONTS [Todd] at 03:15 EDT I wonder if there's any chance of an NIV version of the New Testament? ..Todd ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 6 Fri Jun 12, 1992 J.MEEHAN3 [>> Joe M << ] at 05:58 EDT Does anyone know what versions are available? >> Joe Meehan << ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 7 Fri Jun 12, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:36 EDT John, The only difference I see is footnotes. It's amazing how fast the program is. Wow! Todd, NIV requires a license fee because it's copyrighted. Joe, King James and NIV, so far. More may be coming. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 8 Sat Jun 13, 1992 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 00:39 EDT Okay, dug out my newsletter "The Latest WORD from SpiritWare", here's the poop: Programs: Version 2.2 (Donation $10) Version 3.0 (Donation $20) Available July 1992* Texts New International Bible (Donation $30) Uses 2.2 or 3.0 King James Version (Doantion $20) Uses 2.2 or 3.0 Greek New Testament (Donation $30) Version 3.0 ONLY** *GDOS, FSMGDOS, G+Plus or FontGDOS useful, but not required. ST medium & high and TT resoloutions supported **Includes UBS Greek-English dictionary, morphological tags, and lemmas. GDOS, etc is required to view and print greek characters (otherwise Greek is viewed in transliterated form) SpiritWare Fifteenth Avenue Bible Church 15211 15th Avenue NE Seattle, WA 98155 Hope this helps, John ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 9 Sat Jun 13, 1992 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:49 EDT A NIV version is available. The current version of SpiritEd gives 2 - 11 bombs when run on a MSTe, TOS 2.05. NO DAs or AUTO programs. Version 1.02 works great. Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 10 Sat Jun 13, 1992 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 08:36 EDT John@Lamp, Helps a lot, thanks. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 11 Sat Jun 13, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 09:33 EDT Ken Van, 2.2 basically supports the changes to SpiritEd with the Study notes option. It is rather handy too! *grin* I'm sure that there are other changes (I think selected verses across books now works... if it didn't before). Besides that, 2.2 is basically what was before. Oh, I'm not discounting the new Study notes option or the fact that if you call up SpiritEd within Concordance 2.2, the windows automatically adjust thenselves to make room for it... and whenever you close SpiritEd's window, the Concordance windows automatically resize to reclaim the blank desktop space ---> the two talk together now pretty well. If you haven't tried using SpiritEd within Concordance do it soon and you will see how neat it is. Oh, and the study notes option is pretty neat too! If it is turned on, whenever you jump from one book to another within Concordance, SpiritEd will load up your study notes for that book. You don't even have to worry about saving changes because whenever you change books or exit the program, SpiritEd will automatically save your notes. 3.0 is a major upgrade and some of the main features are the Greek New Testament and Greek dictionary... along with the ability to have multiple translations loaded for comparision. I don't have the release letter in front of me so I'm going from memory, and I have a very poor memory! *grin* Oh, 3.0 also has the option to save translation settings so that it can automatically load what translations you want. Ummm, I can't use it because the basic requirements for it are 2MB RAM. ----- Jonesy, Glad to see that you download the package! There are many "hidden" features that the manual goes into depth about so if you are going to use Concordance for any length of time, you will be so much happier if you register and get a manual. For example, in the Search window, you can do fancier things than just search for a word or phrase. You can also do complex AND, OR, wildcarding... and any combination of those. I don't have the manual in front of me right now but lets say that you wanted to search the entire KJV NT for any occurance of God OR Heavenly Father OR Holy Spirit AND Son... well that would be easy to do. You use the words in combinations with the / and , ... I forget which means which but I'm sure you can figure it out. Let's say for example that you wanted to do a search for any word related to love (loving, loved, love, loves, etc) well, you would search for lov+. Again, any combination of AND, OR, and wildcards can be used once you know the syntax. Oh, there are shortcuts for moving from chapter to chapter, and book to book also... if you read the manual. *grin* I'm glad you enjoy the program! Keep those comments coming! ----- J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST], > As a registered user of 2.13 I'm happy to concur with your > comments. It is a fine piece of shareware! I downloaded 2.2 and > haven't found out what the difference is (i.e. 2.13 to 2.2). Well, I addressed the main changes above. If you find it worth the $5 upgrade charge I'm sure you will enjoy the NEW manual that comes with 2.2. If I understand things correctly, SpiritWare plans on having a two programs now: 2.x for those without need or desire for the Greek New Testament (or those who don't have the 2MB RAM that it takes to run 3.0) and the more advanced 3.x series. Neat, huh? *grin* ----- Todd, > I wonder if there's any chance of an NIV version It is available but the NIV text (both New AND Old Testaments) isn't public domain and SpiritWare has to pay a royalty fee to Zondervan... so the fee for the whole NIV Bible text is around $30. It comes on 4 disks! ----- Joe M, > Does anyone know what versions are available? So far the KJV OT & NT, the NIV OT & NT, and if you get 3.0, the Greek NT. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 12 Sat Jun 13, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 20:05 EDT I NEED the Greek NT. But I only have 1 meg, piggyback upgrade to an early 520. And I'm a financially-challenged Seminary student. . . Sounds rather useful, though. It doesn't sound like it is quite up to GRAMCORD yet, but it does seem to be well ahead of the pack in the ST environment. It would be useful to be able to search for various grammatical constructions in the Greek (is this the UBS version of the NA 26th? Does it include the Apparatus?), and have the Septuagint and Church Fathers as future modules as well. The Masoretic OT would be useful as well, for the future. Is he having trouble getting the fonts to work properly, or designing fonts? I have both Greek and Hebrew fonts in GEM bit-map format, for That's Write. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 13 Sun Jun 14, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 16:45 EDT John, Thanks. I have the Latest WORD. I need what was in the previous mailing that had a detailed description and a questionnaire. Scott, The current download version of Concordance (2.2?) works fine on an MSTe with TOS 2.06. I also get bombs with SpiritED, so it would be difficult to use it as you suggest. I think an upgrade to version 3.0 might be worthwhile to me, even though Greek is, well, Greek to me. The multiple window feature would be useful. Maybe you should revise your price structure, though, to reflect the fact that those who buy the Greek NT will get more out of version 3.0 than those who don't buy the Greek. I'm trying to decide if multiple windows is worth $10 more than version 2.2. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 14 Mon Jun 15, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 01:21 EDT Drys, > The current version of SpiritEd gives 2 - 11 bombs when run on a > MSTe, TOS 2.05. NO DAs or AUTO programs. Version 1.02 works > great. The author just went on vacation and should be back in about two weeks. I'll make sure to pass along your bug report although I thought that the new version of SpiritEd had been tested in every configuration... perhaps it was a last minute change? Say, I know that you have two speeds on the MSTe. Did you try running it at 8MHz and 16MHz both? ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 15 Mon Jun 15, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 02:25 EDT Meneldil, I don't really know the answers to your questions about the Greek NT text and dictionary provided with Concordance 3.0... since I don't have it. You will have to address your questions to D.CLIFTON4 who is currently on vacation and won't be back for about two weeks. Sorry for the delay! ----- Ken Van, > Maybe you should revise your price structure, though, to reflect > the fact that those who buy the Greek NT will get more out of > version 3.0 than those who don't buy the Greek. Well, I'm not connected with SpiritWare other than being an end user of their programs like yourself. I do have some comments to make on your price change suggestion... The prices quoted are donations meant to fund the project --- NOT money for a profiting programmer. The only cost differences I would imagine for 3.0 would be the cost being less if you didn't want the Greek text and therefore weren't being shipped those costly floppy disks that contain it. *grin* ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 16 Mon Jun 15, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:58 EDT Thanks, Scott. I thought you were connected with them. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 17 Wed Jun 17, 1992 M.DRYSDALE [Drys] at 06:32 EDT SpiritEd bombs at 8MHz as well on a MSTe. Mike, TEAM COMPUTERS ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 18 Thu Jun 18, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 00:35 EDT SpiritEd resets my 1 meg 520 to cold boot. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 19 Thu Jun 18, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 16:51 EDT Hey, With all of you guys having trouble with the new version of SpiritEd, it makes me wonder if the file was bad or something when I arc'ed it. Hmmm, I don't have any trouble with SpiritEd on my 520STfm (upgraded to 1MB RAM) with TOS 1.4 and BLiTTER... and I have a few AUTO/TSR programs loaded at bootup along with a couple of desk accessories. Is there anyone out there that ISN'T having a problem... that the new version of SpiritEd works for? Please reply! Be patient people, whenever Don Clifton gets back from vacation, I'm sure he will look into the problem first thing and get it fixed ASAP. 2.2, without the new version of SpiritEd really doesn't do anything more than the older version... so I hope you guys will get a fixed version soon! TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 20 Sat Jun 20, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 05:38 EDT Hello Gang, First off, I would like to thank everyone who has replied to this topic... THANKS for the comments. Secondly, I would like to mention that I believe that the copy of SpiritEd that is contained in the CONCOR22.ARC file is bad. I decided to make a new archive containing just SpiritEd and the NOTES subdirectory w/contents to post in the library. Look for SPIRITED.ARC to be validated soon. I made the CONCOR22.ARC from files on my hard disk... and my hard disk doesn't have a very good track record. In fact, not long after making that archive, I had to recopy the Concordance program and SpiritEd back onto my hard disk because they had become corrupted. Just to let you know, the SPIRITED.ARC file was created from my floppy drive and shouldn't have any problems. Speaking of problems... for those who downloaded CONCOR22.ARC and have had problems with the new version of SpiritEd (everyone), please make the effort to download this newer archive and give it a try. Your problems were most probably caused by me and not SpiritEd, ok? Thanks. Oh, just in case there happens to be a conflict in filenames when I upload the new archive (I'm writing this with Aladdin offline and both it and the archive should be sent together) you can search for the following keywords: SPIRITED,CONCORDANCE,SPIRITWARE,BIBLE,STUDYNOTES I wonder who is going to be the first to reply... HEY IT DOES WORK?!?! Let the conversation begin. We can start talking about the new Study Notes features once everyone has had a chance to play with it. Oh, and by the way, everyone try using SpiritEd within Concordance... and make sure to turn the Study Notes feature on. Remember, the NOTES subdirectory must be in whatever path Concordance is run from. TYL, Scott p.s. It might take a little while for my upload to be validated by the SysOps here so be patient. *grin* ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 21 Sat Jun 20, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 06:04 EDT Hello Again, The file in question had to be renamed because the filename SPIRITED.ARC was already in use... it is the older version of SpiritEd uploaded by D.CLIFTON4 sometime ago. Look for SP_ED_DA.ARC as file #24567 whenever it gets validated. E N J O Y !!! TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 22 Sat Jun 20, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:55 EDT SP_ED_DA.ARC is a poor choice of names, Scott. It's such a nice application (I reviewed an earlier version in a newspaper column quite a while back); it deserves a name in the file list that isn't so cryptic. Al ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 23 Sun Jun 21, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 04:33 EDT Al, Well I wanted to name it SPIRITED.ARC but that name had already been used. Say, does that mean that you downloaded it and that it works for you? I sure hope so. Any other reports on the new version of SpiritEd working for everyone??? TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 24 Mon Jun 22, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:57 EDT Scott, I'll DL it and try the new version out. My point about the name is just that something like SPIRIT2.ARC (etc.) would have been easier to locate and make sense of. Maybe the sysops can do that? Al ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 25 Tue Jun 23, 1992 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 00:20 EDT If the author or uploader requests, we can do. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 26 Tue Jun 23, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 04:20 EDT Al, > I'll DL it and try the new version out. Well, did it work for you? - - - - - Darlah, > If the author or uploader requests, we can do. Ok, please rename SP_ED_DA.ARC TO SPIRIT2.ARC. Thanks! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 27 Tue Jun 23, 1992 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 08:41 EDT It is done!! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 28 Tue Jun 23, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 09:16 EDT Scott, If the separate SP_ED_DA.ARC (aka SPIRIT2.ARC) is also included in CONCOR22.ARC, then maybe it'd be a good idea to upload CONCOR22.ARC without the SPIRIT file(s) included. That'd minimize the DL time for a new downloader (e.g., me). Otherwise I'll have to DL the 100K+ SPIRIT stuff twice (once within CONCOR22.ARC and once as SPIRIT2.ARC) just to get a good one. And you'll probably find later on that people will continue DL'ing CONCOR22 without DL'ing the good SPIRIT file. Questions will keep popping up. Also, does the SPIRIT text editor provide capability/functionality that's specific to the Concordance program? Or will my DA text editor provide what's needed? I'd like to get the Concordance program but might want to hold off on DL'ing the text editor if the one I have is sufficient. -- Harry ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 29 Wed Jun 24, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 08:02 EDT Harry, Thanks for the comments about the need to delete CONCOR22.ARC (since it contains a faulty copy of SpiritEd) and a need to upload an archive of the Concordance application. Darlah, if you see this message, please delete CONCOR22.ARC and I'll upload a new archive with only the Concordance program. I had thought of that on my own, I just wasn't possitive if the SpiritEd within CONCOR22 was bad or not... but now I know that it is. > does the SPIRIT text editor provide capability/functionality > that's specific to the Concordance program? Or will my DA text > editor provide what's needed? Good question. Here's an answer for you! *grin* SpiritEd has special communications with Concordance when it is used within it. If you open the SpiritEd window within Concordance, SpiritEd will automatically be sent to the bottom of the screen and the Concordance windows will automatically resize themselves to make room... and when you close the SpiritEd window, the Concordance windows will again resize themselves to take up the newfound desktop space. This is feature is really neat so give it a try if and when you decide to download the repost of SpiritEd. BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE... STUDY NOTES is a whole new feature of the new program versions and it really makes a difference. Basically the included NOTES subdirectory contains a file (non-ASCII but you can export them as ASCII if and when desired) for each book of the bible. If you turn the STUDY NOTES option on when using SpiritEd within Concordance, SpiritEd will automatically load in the appropriate .NTS file for whatever book of the bible the Concordance text window is displaying. The .NTS files are basically a list of chapter:verse note separators (in BOLD text) for each book of the bible. For example if you have Genesis loaded, with Study notes on, SpiritEd will automatically load GENESIS.NTS and the SpiritEd title bar will display "Notes on Genesis" or something very similiar to that. The text within SpiritEd will look something like: 1:1 1:2 1:3 etc... The .NTS files are specific for each book and contain the exact chapter:verse list appropriate for each individual book. This makes error free tracking of notes very easy and convenient (sp?). *NOTICE* SpiritEd will automatically handle loading in .NTS files as you jump from book to book within Concordance. Not only that, but it will automatically save your notes for a book prior to loading in another book's notes. Oh, and the final neat thing to notice is that... as you scroll through a books text in Concordance text window, SpiritEd will automatically scroll the notes, appropriate to whatever present window size happens to be, to make the top chapter:verse note slot match the top chapter:verse being displayed by Concordance's text window. NEAT HUH!?!?! For those who are interested in SpiritEd but haven't downloaded the good posting... do yourself a favor, download it ASAP. - - - - - An offer to anyone interested: Anyone who would like to receive a copy of Concordance, SpiritEd, and the KJV NT text... but who can't afford the download time from the ST RT Library may send me two blank disks and a Self-Addressed Stamped Envolope (disk mailer prefered) and I will provide them with a copy. My address is as follows: Scott Dowdle 2321 6th Ave. S. Great Falls, MT 59405 I would also offer the KJV Old Testament IF I had a copy of it. Does anyone have the KJV OT files? If so, would anyone want to give me a copy (it IS in the public domain) or upload it here to GEnie? I realize we are talking about 4 disks worth of files here... so the US Mail is preferable and much more cost effective for this particular project. Don't expect same day turn around though... I'm a busy fellow. *grin* - - - - - Speaking of being busy, it might take me a few days to archive the Concordance package and upload it here to GEnie's ST RT Library. Anyone feel free to save me personal time by creating a Concordance archive and uploading it? Please let me know if you do upload it so I don't waste my time in duplication. Remember, uploading is free!!! Thanks for listening and TYL (type you later), Scott Dowdle ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 30 Wed Jun 24, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 08:59 EDT Scott, Thanks for the reply. Sounds like it's definitely worth trying out SPIRIT along with CONCORD. BTW, you can delete your own files from the library. It's one of the regular selections once you get into the library. You just need to know the file number. (Only works on files you uploaded, of course.) -- Harry p.s. I seem to recall some OT files already in the library. Are they not CONCORD-compatible? Or maybe with a conversion utility that was also available? ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 31 Wed Jun 24, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:39 EDT The new SpiritEd works as a MultiDesk Deluxe MDX with my Mega STE4, TOS 2.06. I have not tried it yet with Concordance, but assume that should be OK. Harry, it allows access to notes in connection with Concordance. I forgot what the features of the new versions were, so I wrote for another copy. For the benefit of others who might also want to know, here they are. Version 2.2 of the concordance program comes with a new edition of SpiritEd that allows you to allocate as much memory as you need to edit large files. In conjunction with this new edition of SpiritEd, a personal study note feature has been added to Version 2.2. When you display a verse in the Text window, your study notes for that verse appear automatically in the SpiritEd window where you may vi ew and edit them. Another new feature of Version 2.2 is the ability to mark verses in more than one book at a time, even with limited memory. Version 2.2 is compatible with all models of the ST and is compatible with the TT in ST resolution. Version 3.0 has all of the features of 2.2 plus the following: * More than one text can be opened at a time and any two of these texts can be viewed in parallel in the Text Window. * The number of available bookmarks has been expanded to six. * You can save the window positions, bookmarks, and menu settings; these will be restored automatically the next time the program is started. You can also specify a list of texts to be loaded automat ically when the program starts up. * A new search command operator has been added which allows you to specify the range over which two sequential words must appear in a verse. * You can print out and graph summary statistics related to the last search. * The Greek New Testament is available and can be viewed on the screen and printed with either Greek characters or in transliterated form. (You will need to have GDOS, G+PLUS, or FSMGDOS and the appropriate drivers to view or print Greek characters.) * The UBS Greek New Testament dictionary is available on-screen. Greek (and English) words can be looked up in the dictionary by clicking on them in the Text window. * You can view the parsing of any Greek word in the text by clicking on it. * You can perform grammatical searches of the Greek text (similar to GramCord) through the use of a user-friendly interface. * Version 3.0 is fully compatible with all models of the ST and is TT-compatible in all resolutions. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 32 Wed Jun 24, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:44 EDT Scott, I'll let you know shortly. I'm still sifting through my own telecomm stuff (GEnie is only 80% of my life; otherwise I still have to make a living, and I run what's called the Telesystem in Syracuse as part of my job) and I'll get to the new SpiritEd soon. Scott and Darlah, Thanks for takling up my suggestion on the filename. Harry, SpiritEd is well worth checking out, judging from the previous version. It could work as a replacement for your current text editor, esp. since it's a DA and can be readily dropped on top of any GEM program or the desktop. Al ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 33 Fri Jun 26, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 04:46 EDT Harry, > you can delete your own files from the library. Thanks for that information. I'll give it a try soon! *grin* > I seem to recall some OT files already in the library. Are they > not CONCORD-compatible? To the best of my knowledge, the files you might be talking about are for a different bible reader program from Randy Mears... of Intersect software fame. I hope I haven't gotten the name and the programming association messed up... because I would be embarrised. Anyways, Concordance uses a special data format that makes it super fast and take up less disk space. Bible texts actually are made up of two files... a .CCD and a .DCT file. I'm sure that the author has to have some conversion program to go from raw ASCII to the Concordance format but it hasn't been released... and I doubt that any copy of the OT available elsewhere would be of much use to us without that such a conversion program. Thanks for the idea... I would love to be proven wrong though! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 34 Fri Jun 26, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:27 EDT I originally purchased NIV. Later, I decided to add KJV, and asked if I could just use a file I already had. (I had downloaded one and gotten one from an IBM shareware catalog.) Fifteenth Avenue told me only theirs would work with Concordance. Now you know. While we're on it, I'm not sure the KJV is public domain _in Concordance format_, so I don't think I should upload it, as you asked. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 35 Sat Jun 27, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 04:22 EDT Ken, > I'm not sure the KJV is public domain _in Concordance format_, so > I don't think I should upload it, as you asked. Well, I'll just repeat what it says on page 2 of the Concordance version 2 manual: " While SpiritWare is copyrighted, permission is granted for unlimited noncommerical copying and distribution of SpiritWare programs. (However, remember that most versions of the Bible are copyrighted and cannot be copied without permission -- this does not apply to the KJV). " You have to remember that the SpiritWare folks aren't out to make a profit and operate on a donation basis. The donation recommendations are set for the cost of producing the labeled disks and the printed manual. The NIV version cost more because they have to pay a royalty on it... and the NIV can't be freely distributed. The above might lead one to ask, "Then why register the program?" Well, it is simple... you get a great manual and original disks and you help support their development... and they do accept donations larger than the cost covering recommendation (in fact I'm bet they prefer them *grin*). The point of the above... have no fear of distributing the SpiritWare programs or any public domain texts. The KJV just happens to be the only pd text offered and the NIV just happens to be the only copyrighted text. I DO appreciate your precautions though! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 36 Sat Jun 27, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 19:45 EDT Everyone, Here is an order form for the various SpiritWare product options. Believe it or not, it is embedded (sp?) into the Concordance program but doesn't seem accessable within it. I'm wondering if it has something to do with my having a registered copy... as opposed to a non-registered copy?!? - - - - - ORDER FORM Use this form to order the most recent version of the concordance program and Bible texts. The program comes with a complete, printed manual. Send the completed form to: SpiritWare Fifteenth Avenue Bible Church 15211 15th Avenue NE Seattle, WA 98155 QTY DESCRIPTION DONATION* ___ Concordance program plus New International Version Bible**...$40.00 ___ Concordance program plus NIV New Testament...................$20.00 ___ Concordance program plus King James Version Bible**..........$30.00 ___ Concordance program plus King James New Testament............$15.00 ___ Concordance program plus NIV and KJV Bibles**................$60.00 * SpiritWare is user-supported. If possible, please include at least the the requested donation to help cover our costs. The cost of the NIV texts includes a royalty that we must pay for each copy we distribute. ** A double-sided disk drive and at least 1M of memory is required. To access the entire Bible at once, a hard disk must be used. Each version of the Bible requires 2.5M of disk space. Those with only a floppy disk drive can access Scripture in segments. The segments are: Genesis to Deuteronomy, Joshua to Ester, Job to Song of Solomon, Isaiah to Malachi, and Matthew to Revelation. ->PLEASE MAKE CHECKS PAYABLE TO FABC<- Name:___________________________________________________________ Organization:___________________________________________________ Address:________________________________________________________ City:___________________________________________________________ State:____ Zip:________ Computer: ___520 ___1040 ___Mega 2 ___Mega 4 Memory: ___512K ___1M ___2M ___2.5M ___4M Monitor: ___Monochrome ___Color Floppy Drive: ___Double-Sided ___Single-Sided Hard Drive: ___Yes ___No Printer: ________________________________________ Word Processing Programs: _______________________ - - - - - I hope this helps everyone out! TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 37 Sat Jun 27, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:42 EDT Scott, I'll see what I can do for you on the KJV. (Oops, that's the code for Abbreviator to type my name!) I guess I should try to compress it first. I'm up to my ears in projects, so it might be a week or so. You just need the OT, right? Will you append a readme file so people might be encouraged to donate? I assume those who would want it would be honest enough to do so. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 38 Sun Jun 28, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 15:42 EDT Ken/Scott, To lessen the intimidation factor, it'd be nice for a prospective user to be able to download something LESS than the entire NT or OT. A 345000-byte file (even when compressed) LOOKS like it'll take all night to download. I guess it would take around 25 minutes or so at 2400 baud --- close to an hour at 1200 baud. (Did I do that right?) And I imagine a complete KJV OT (ARC'ed) will be larger! ;-) Some earlier uploads broke the files into books (or ranges of books). I don't recall whether it was the Concordance format or ASCII. But I DL'ed the earlier version 2.0 (dated 1/90) with only Paul's epistles. I don't recall whether it was all one file (program and Paul's stuff) or whether the Paul stuff was separate. So, when UL'ing the OT, please keep that in mind (if it's possible). And maybe someone will consider breaking the NT into smaller chunks. (KEN --> I don't think Scott can append anything to what you upload.) -- Harry ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 39 Sun Jun 28, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 15:55 EDT Ken, I feel sorry for you if and when you go to upload the KJV OT. Uploads (to the best of my knowledge) go VERY slowly when only Xmodem is available!!! I would prefer to get the OT via US Mail. Could I send you some disks? Please return your address if the answer is yes... or you could mail it to me and I could return you some disks?!? See my address a few messages ago. TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 40 Mon Jun 29, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:22 EDT Harry, Maybe I'll have to mail it to him. Why are we doing this instead of getting it from Fifteenth Avenue? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 41 Sun Jul 05, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 23:07 EDT I received a message from Scott yesterday telling me about this topic. It was surprising to see how much activity there has been here. I think that Scott has done an excellent job of answering your questions and after I have a chance to sort through all of the messages, I will make some more specific responses and will post an up-to-date order form. I'm still a bit concerned about the problems that people were reporting for SpiritEd. Did the new upload solve the problems? I am always eager to hear about any troubles you have. Don't assume we already know about them or wait for someone else to report them. Thanks for your interest... I'll be back soon. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 42 Mon Jul 06, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:48 EDT I still haven't had a chance to try SpiritEd with Concordance, so can't say how that works, but it works by itself, now, which is a good sign. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 43 Thu Jul 09, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 03:49 EDT Don (D.CLIFTON4 - Author of SpiritWare's Concordance & SpiritEd), It sure is good to see that you have found this topic and I hope you can find the time to be as active here as possible. Can you give us an official overview of what Concordance 3.0 is going to look like? Is it released yet? If not, when do you hope to have it out the door? Are the Greek New Testament and/or Greek dictionary public domain? Would you ever consider a TOS based version of Concordance so BBS SysOps might be able to run it as a door for their online users? That would be exciting! *grin* TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 44 Thu Jul 09, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:20 EDT SpiritEd works fine as a stand-alone editor, but I'm going to have to work on interfacing it with Concordance. I'm running it as a MultiDesk Deluxe MDX, and I may have to put it somewhere else. What works for you? Or do I just need info on accessing it? When I try to access it from the MDD menu, the screen flashes and I get the menu back. I got your GEmail, Scott, and will try to come up with something. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 45 Thu Jul 09, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 19:36 EDT On my system, it doesn't like the notes files. Hellisti erchomai? ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 47 Fri Jul 10, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 07:50 EDT I have finally gotten a chance to start looking through the messages that have appeared here over the last month. So far, it looks like most of the questions have not only been answered, but they have been answered correctly! Here are a few additional comments... 1. The Greek text is the UBS NT, 3rd edition along with the UBS Greek-English dictionary. Also included are morphological tags and lemmas for every word in the NT. This allows the user to search for particular grammatical constructions, to search for words with common dictionary forms, and to automatically (and correctly) look up Greek words in the UBS dictionary. There are currently no plans to adapt other Greek manuscripts for use with the concordance. 2. Version 3 does not have multiple text windows. GEM allows each application to have only four windows and all four of these have already been spoken for (Seach Command, List, Text, and Reference). Instead, the user can split the Text window into two parallel columns, each with its own text source. For example, the Greek NT can be in the left column and the NIV Bible can be in the right column. The text in each column can be easily changed through the use of a drop-down menu that is contained in the Text window information bar. The two texts are always parallel to each other. 3. Version 3 will print out an order form for you, if requested. The order form can be accessed by selecting the About... option in the Desk menu. Scott is right, the older versions of the program allowed you to do that. I may just modify Version 2.2 to do this, too. 4. Some people with limited resources have asked if they can use Version 3. You really can't take advantage of the special features of Version 3 without a hard disk or with less than 2 Mb of memory. It MIGHT be possible to load the Greek NT without the Greek-English dictionary, lemmas, or tags, with 1 Mb of memory and a floppy, but I haven't tried it and certainly wouldn't guarantee it. 5. The Greek New Testament and UBS Greek-English dictionary are copyrighted by the United Bible Societies (i.e., NOT Public Domain). 6. Version 3 is almost ready to go. The manual (>130 pages) is off to the printer, so we should begin to ship next week sometime. Here is a current order form, if you are interested: -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ORDER FORM Use this form to order the most recent versions of the concordance program and Bible texts. The program comes with a complete, printed manual. Send the completed form to: SpiritWare Fifteenth Avenue Bible Church 15211 15th Avenue NE Seattle, WA 98155 QTY DESCRIPTION DONATION* ___ Concordance program Version 2.2................................$10.00 (Requires 1 Mb of memory and double-sided disk drive) ___ Concordance program Version 3.0................................$20.00 (Requires 2Mb of memory, hard disk, and double-sided disk drive) ___ King James Version of the Bible**..............................$20.00 (Use with Version 2.2 or 3.0; comes on 4 DSDD floppy disks.) ___ New International Version of the Bible**.......................$30.00 (Use with Version 2.2 or 3.0; comes on 4 DSDD floppy disks.) ___ UBS Greek New Testament with Greek-English dictionary, Greek fonts, morphological tags, and lemmas.................................$30.00 (Use with Version 3.0 only; comes on 3 DSDD floppy disks.) * SpiritWare is user-supported. If possible, please include at least the the requested donation to help cover our costs. The cost of the NIV and Greek NT includes a royalty that we must pay for each copy we distribute. ** To access the entire Bible at once, a hard disk must be used. Each version of the Bible requires 2.5M of hard disk space. Those with only a floppy disk drive can access Scripture in segments. The segments are: Genesis to Deuteronomy, Joshua to Esther, Job to Song of Solomon, Isaiah to Malachi, and Matthew to Revelation. ->PLEASE MAKE CHECKS PAYABLE TO FABC<- Name:____________________________________________________________________ Address:_________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________________ ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 48 Sat Jul 11, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 04:44 EDT Ken, > I'm running it as a MultiDesk Deluxe MDX, and I may have to put it > somewhere else. What works for you? Well, I loaded SpiritEd into MDD as a resident DA and then saved a setup file. I also own HotWire so I have the MDD Setup file for SpiritEd installed as a menu entry... and that is chained to the Concordance program. When I exit the Concordance program, the next HotWire menu entry is chained to a second MDD Setup file that doesn't have SpiritEd as a DA (I zero both buffers). But to answer your question... I know it works as a resident, I really haven't tried it as a non-resident but I don't see why it wouldn't work. - - - - - Meneldil, > On my system, it doesn't like the notes files. Well, the .NTS files aren't ASCII. They are a special format used by SpiritEd while in STUDY NOTES mode inside of the Concordance program... or at least that is what I got from the documentation. *grin* Tell me something... are you just trying to load the notes into SpiritEd outside of the Concordance program? If so, I don't think SpiritEd realizes that the .NTS file you loaded is a NOTES file... and just treats it like it were ASCII. That's my guess anyway. Say, Don... is that correct? ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 49 Sat Jul 11, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 10:25 EDT Scott, You've gotten farther into HotWire than I have. I don't know how to do all of that stuff, yet. My problem may be that I don't know how to use SpiritEd while in Concordance. Do I go to the MDD menu to use it or do I do something with the Concordance menu? Do the docs for the previous version of Concordance explain what to do? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 50 Sat Jul 11, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 19:50 EDT Ken, > You've gotten farther into HotWire than I have. I don't know how > to do all of that stuff, yet. Do yourself a favor (although this is definitely topic drift *grin*) and read both the MDD manual and the HotWire manual including the update sheets. Chaining menu entries in HotWire is a fantastic feature especially when you HotWire has the ability to use MDD Setup files to configure MDD. Just hit ^B (I think) and you will get a down arrow. Here is something like what you will see... ^B SpiritEd as MDD Resident (MDD setup file with SpiritEd resident) ^B Concordance program (Concordance program) * Dump SpiritEd (MDD setup file with 1K/1K buffer) Entry 1 is an MDD setup file that was saved with SpiritEd loaded as a resident DA. MDD setup files are intalled in the HotWire menu just like normal programs are. Entry 2 is simply the Concordance program installed normally. Entry 3 another MDD setup file (I all EMPTY.MLT) that has the resident [MDD] buffer set at 1K and the non-resident [MDX] buffer set at 1K. I used the EMPTY.MTL HotWire entry alot... whenever I want to dump all accessories and get my precious RAM back. I'm sure will find this handy. Oh, the ^B's above translate into a down arrow on your screen. Down arrows tell HotWire to chain to the next menu entry. Chains are terminated with an asterick (sp?) at the beginning of the last program to be chained. I would give you the HotWire and MDD manual reference pages for further study but I don't have the manuals handy right now. Most of my manuals are still packed up in a box from a recent move. > Do I go to the MDD menu to use it or do I do something with the > Concordance menu? You access SpiritEd like you would any other Desk Accessory... or any DA loaded into MultiDesk Deluxe... go up to the Desk drop down and pick it. If SpiritEd is selected while in the Concordance program, they will sense each other and the adjust windows automatically. If you want to use the STUDY NOTES feature of SpiritEd while in Concordance, you have to turn it on from SpiritEd's drop down menu. I can't remember its exact placement right now but I'm sure you can find it. The NOTES sub-directory that contains all of the .NTS files must be in the same path as Concordance was run from or SpiritEd won't be able to find your NOTES. Give SpiritEd's new STUDY NOTES feature a try because it is really neat!!! Trust me!!! > Do the docs for the previous version of Concordance explain what > to do? If I remember correctly, the original Concordance manual doesn't mention SpiritEd at all because SpiritEd was released after it was printed. The NEW manual for 2.2 really goes into detail on using both Concordance and SpiritEd separately as well as using the in conjunction with each other with or without the STUDY NOTES feature. That is why I strongly suggest that people get a manual. *grin* If the above slips through your fingers and you need more help, just let me know and I'll be here for you. TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 51 Sat Jul 11, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:48 EDT Thanks, Scott. I'll have to try it when I have a chance. It's asterisk. I'm holding off on paying for 2.2 until I decide if I want 3.0, even if I won't use the Greek. I appreciate the offer of help. One of these days I'll get something going on that project you suggested. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 52 Sun Jul 12, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 08:02 EDT Since some of you are interested in being able to access the Greek NT with only 1 MB of memory, I tried running Version 3.0 on my Mega 4 with a 3 MB RAM disk without any desk accessories and GDOS as the only TSR in the AUTO folder. The program started up but there was not enough memory to load the Greek NT text. Sorry... ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 53 Sun Jul 12, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 09:57 EDT Into SpiritEd within the Concordance program. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 54 Sat Jul 18, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 16:06 EDT Hello Gang, I just wanted to congratulate Don on receiving a very favorible review of Concordance 3 (dubbed C3) in the July/August issue of CURRENT NOTES magazine. There just happen to be several screen shots of C3 including one with the UBS Greek NT along side of the NIV in the text window and the UBS Greek dictionary in the lower left-hand side, just under the verse list. The Greek displayed in the screen shot... well, it is Greek to me. [grin] I bet if I ever get my system RAM upgraded and can take advantage of C3 (I currently only have 1MB of RAM) that the Greek additions will inspire me to attempt learning Greek. - - - - - Don, I have question for you... Does SpiritEd work fine with C3? There was no mention of SpiritEd in the article (if there was I missed that part [grin]) so I got curious. So, what's your next project, Hebrew? - - - - - Everyone, I was just curious how people used Concordance & SpiritEd in their day- to-day computing lives. I use Concordance usually to find any passage of text that comes up in discussions with some co-workers. We like to talk about religion and spirituality at work but people like myself can never remember where they read something. I was curious how people use the Concordance program in Bible study, or just playing around, or in serious scholarly stuff. Anyone have any stories to share? TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 55 Sat Jul 18, 1992 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 21:34 EDT Don: I must have missed something. Has C3 been released? If so I do want to upgrade. I have my letter and will use it. David <>< P.S. I just thought of something that I wanted to ask if you could include in one of the version C3. I like to read the Bible on the road and would like to see a "bookmarker". What I mean is perhaps a file that contains the location of where one leaves off reading or able to make a list of verses that if you click on them the screen would go to that verse. I can explain futher if you need. Perhaps it is all ready there I have not used it yet. :) Scott: I use C2 for bible study. We have a list of verses each week to look-up and study for a class sharing on Sunday mornings. I also use it for looking for topics for our news letter. I will use it on the road when Atari sells the Book. Right now I use a small computer from Selectronics. The small one is nice, but looking forward to C3. David <>< ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 56 Sun Jul 19, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 02:17 EDT Scott, I will be using C3 (God willing and the ram upgrade becomes feasible) for serious scholarly research. The addition of the lemmas and tags is invaluable. I recently did a paper for Advanced Greek class where the interpretation of a passage depended on whether Mathew wrote Greek with a Semitic grammer or a Hellenistic grammer (accent, sort of, if you will) in this particular grammatical construction in question `pros to', Matthew used the Hellenistic usage throughout the rest of his Gospel, so it followed that he did in this passage as well. This sort of thing really is the cutting edge of Bible scholarship, as D.A. Carson glows in his recent book _Exigetical Fallacies_ where he extolls the virtues of the MS.DOS commercial package GramCord. I hope that you will be able to add the Masoretic text of the O.T. soon. NASB would be nice, too. Other ideas? Well a hyper-text type system where by clicking on a word or phrase one could then access the Freiberg's grammatical analysis, Maximillian Zerwick's grammatical commentary, and advanced grammer (already tied together), or Louw and Nida's Greek Lexicon by Semantic Domains. This would be much handier than taking over a dinner table with books spread out all over it! Also the ability to write one's translation as one is in the program. Perhaps more practically implemented, I would like to see a much easier method for saving the found and selected passages to a file. Maybe that is included in the paid-for version, but I won't get that until I get a RAM upgrade so that I can run the C3 with the UBS 3rd. And how will the Greek look once saved to ascii? Does it come with a GEM/GDOS font that I can then convert easily for my wordprocessor? (That's Write) Do the keys map to Qwerty? Thank you for writing this program! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 57 Sun Jul 19, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 06:34 EDT Mendldil, Well, you seem to get getting some good usage out of Concordance. I'm glad to see it. RE: Concordance 3 I didn't write it, Don Clifton (D.CLIFTON4) did. Hopefully he will have time soon to pop in here and answer all of your questions. But I can tell you that the Greek in C3 requires GDOS or FontGDOS. I believe the Greek font is provided with the package, but you have to provide your own copy of GDOS as well as a GDOS printer driver. I'm not sure about the answers to your other questions. You did state: M> I would like to see a much easier method for saving the found and M> selected passages to a file. Maybe that is included in the paid-for M> version. There isn't a "paid-for version" of the software. The registration fee helps support the Concordance ministry (as I read in the CURRENT NOTES review) and provides the user with original disks and a fantastic printed program manual covering Concordance and SpiritEd. I'm not sure I understand what you are looking for in the way of "a much easier method for saving [...] to a flie." I believe versions prior to 2.2 didn't allow for across book verse saves, but 2.2 now works properly with selected verses from different books. I hope that is what you were looking for. TYL, Scott - Fellow Concordance & SpiritEd User ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 58 Sun Jul 19, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 22:41 EDT Meneldil, You sound like a pretty intelligent fellow. Please spell gramm*r with an ar. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 59 Mon Jul 20, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 20:05 EDT ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 60 Tue Jul 21, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:09 EDT Meneldil, You left a blank message on Monday. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 61 Tue Jul 21, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 08:31 EDT You guys are really tricky. I was checking this topic every day, but there was no activity, so I decided to skip a few days. As soon as I did, there was a flurry of activity. C3 (Concordance Version 3) has not been sent out yet. I know that I promised we would start shipping last week, but our secretary didn't have a chance to get the manual to the printer. She has assured me that we will be able to begin shipping by the end of this week. Sorry about the delay. The review in Current Notes was written by Bruce Noonan (the author of ST Writer), who lives here in Seattle. He was one of our beta testers. He started using C3 long before it was even close to being finished. SpiritEd does work with C3 in the same manner that it works with C2. Bruce doesn't use SpiritEd, so that's probably why he didn't mention it in his review. SpiritEd does not have the ability to display Greek characters (that would require GDOS, something a desk accessory is not supposed to use!), so when Greek words are sent to SpiritEd, they are transliterated. Similarly, when the results of a search in the Greek NT are saved, they are saved in a transliterated form. I have heard from another one of our beta testers that there is some public domain font that will convert the transliterated text back to Greek for use with PageStream. (I'm not quite sure how a font could convert a 'ch' into a chi--it seems like you would need a program to do that. In any case, the diacritical marks would be lost.) Both versions have bookmark capabilities. C2 allows for one bookmark, while C3 has six. I don't know about the Masoretic text, but I (and a lot of our concordance users) would like to get the NASB. I fact, maybe some of you might be able to help. Does anyone know how to contact the Lockman Foundation (the owners of the NASB copyright)? Version 3 does have a hyper-text type system. By clicking on a word, you can either view the UBS Greek-English dictionary entry for that word, or view the parsing of that word (the parsing is based on Freiberg's grammatical analysis), or copy the word to the clipboard, or copy the word to the Search Command window. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 62 Tue Jul 21, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 22:57 EDT I haven't tried again to use SpiritEd with Concordance, but would like to know what to expect when I get it working. Is it going to be a big window over everything, like it is ordinarily, or will it be another small window among the rest? It didn't seem to work for me as an MDX in MultiDesk Deluxe. I'm wondering if it needs to be a resident DA or boot from the root folder. I'm still trying to decide if the extra features in version 3 would be beneficial if I don't use the Greek. Maybe I should get into Greek. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 63 Wed Jul 22, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 04:32 EDT Ken, KV> SpiritEd with Concordance [..] Is it going to be a big window KV> over everything, like it is ordinarily, or will it be another KV> small window among the rest? SpiritEd and Concordance sense each other... and when you open SpiritEd from within Concordance, Concordance's Verse List window and Text Window both resize (becoming shorter) to make room for SpiritEd's window... which appears across the bottom of the screen. This is a very nice screen arrangement. You can, of course, resize or position the windows if you like, but usually just making SpiritEd full screen and back again does the trick for me if I want to view more of the text I'm editing. Give it a try. KV> It didn't seem to work for me as an MDX in MultiDesk Deluxe. I'm KV> wondering if it needs to be a resident DA or boot from the root KV> folder. I haven't tried SpiritEd as an MDX (non-resident) DA with MultiDesk Deluxe. I guess I should so I can tell you what luck I have. I HAVE used SpiritEd as a resident DA within MDD and it works just fine. If you have trouble with SpiritEd being an MDX, just load it as a resident DA and save a setup file. Using a setup file that contains SpiritEd as a resident DA is easy to load when you want to use it... ie, you don't have to have your default MDD setup with SpiritEd loaded. If I haven't made it plain yet, I love MDD setup files... and I love to have then installed in HotWire so I can simply click on a HotWire menu entry to load or dump various MDD DA setups, which makes it easy to get back RAM when needed. KV> I'm still trying to decide if the extra features in version 3 KV> beneficial if I don't use the Greek. Well, there is always the parallel bible text view. If you wanted to you could have the KJV and the NIV on screen in the text window side by side for comparison. ...and then there is always the increase of bookmarks from one to six with C3. I'm sure there are other features that Don can fill us in on. I haven't seen C3 in action yet. Oh yeah... C3 also saves default settings such as what translation you have loaded and where the windows are placed (I think). ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 64 Wed Jul 22, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:00 EDT Thanks for the help, Scott. Let me know what results you have with your MDX test. I'll have to study the HotWire! manual a bit to see how to load setups with it. It sounds very handy and something I should use with some programs. You may have talked me into getting C3. While I'm here, I'll take the opportunity to mention what I use Concordance for. I use it primarily for looking things up. Isn't that what a concordance is for? Another use is to print passages for when my wife or I are the scripture reader for our church service. My wife started this, because she wanted larger print and wanted to know when to start and stop. This takes the worry out of it. A third use is to select passages for inclusion into a document. We get frequent visits from members of a particular cult, and I put together a multipage handout with scripture passages that explain why I disagree with them. I invited one of them in on one or two occasions, and after a brief prayer, in which I mentioned God by the name they prefer to use, I gave the person a copy of my paper. Before we had discussed it very much, the person would ask to be excused because the others were waiting down the street. I've noticed that I haven't had a visit in a long time, although I see visitors walking by. I hope you find these uses interesting. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 65 Wed Jul 22, 1992 J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST] at 23:54 EDT Scott, SpiritEd works fine as a non-resident MultiDesk Delux item! John GEnieLamp ST Co-Editor ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 66 Thu Jul 23, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 01:37 EDT Don, Sounds like you've got a winner there. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 67 Thu Jul 23, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 05:30 EDT K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van], KVD> I'll have to study the HotWire! manual a bit to see how to load KVD> setups with it. It sounds very handy and something I should use KVD> with some programs. I tried to explain it several messages back in this topic... but it is a rather complex use that takes a little while to comprehend. [grin] Basically what you do is... 1) Load up MultiDesk Deluxe how you want it. COMMENTS: What DAs do you resident (how big of a buffer will you need?) and what DAs do you want to be able to run as non-resident (how big of a MDX buffer will you need?). Set up your desired buffer sizes using the Configuration dialog. 2) Select MultiDesk Deluxe's Save Setup option and save a setup file. COMMENTS: I have tons of setup files. The two I use the most are called FULL.MTL and EMPTY.MTL. FULL has a lot of RAM allocated to both buffers whereas EMPTY has both buffers set to 1K. With these two simple setup files I can expand or decrease the amount of RAM that MDD uses as quick as loading a setup file. 3) Use MDD's Load Setup file option to load in any previously saved .MTL setup file. COMMENTS: This way you can quickly switch between setups without all of the pain of manually configuring everything every single time. KVD> I've noticed that I haven't had a visit in a long time, although KVD> I see visitors walking by. OR 4) Use HotWire! to load in a setup file by installing it in a HotWire! menu slot. COMMENTS: This is easy to do. Just left click on any empty slot in the HotWire! menu... just as if you were installing a program. HotWire! presents a file selector... find the desired .MTL file and choose it. HotWire! comes up with the program parameters dialog. Notice that a few of HotWire!'s options are disabled and the word right under title of the dialog box says something like (in real small lettering) Program type: MultiDesk setup file. Just enter name for the menu and any hotkey combo you desire to call it up... just like you would any program you were installing. When done, click on OK and save your HotWire! menu. Now to have HotWire! automatically load your installed setupfile, just hit the hotkey or click on that entry in the menu. WaaaLaaa, and there you have it. Any questions? KVD> I hope you find these uses interesting. I found those very interesting. I too have had my share of visitors. I don't want to bring up the issue of religion here (I save that for the Religion and Ethics RT) but I have had several visits from Mormon/LDS missionaries. I enjoyed talking to them and have learned a lot about Mormonism. They no longer visit me though because I personally chose not to accept the Book of Mormon. I had some Jehova (boy is that spelling wrong!) Witnesses visit me once... and although they promised to come back again, I haven't heard from them since. I wish every Christian religious group would take the time to visit with me so I could learn about their particular faiths. I asked Don (I think I asked him!?!) if he would ever consider supporting the Book of Mormon as a text for Concordance (after all, it would be useful for believers and non-believers alike). I don't think I ever got an answer... heck I guess, maybe I didn't ask. [grin] - - - - - J.GNIEWKOWSK [GE-Lamp ST], JG> SpiritEd works fine as a non-resident MultiDesk Delux item! Well, that is certainly good news. Say, did you try SpiritEd as a non- resident DA within Concordance for the STUDY NOTES feature. I STill haven't gotten around to it yet... if I would just quit answering every message I come across. [grin] TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 68 Thu Jul 23, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 19:05 EDT Scott, Thanks for the info on HotWire!. I think I saved your previous message, but haven't gotten around to checking it. In my previous message, I deliberately avoided naming the cult that I mentioned. It probably would be wise not to name religious groups here. We could get into a really "interesting" situation. JG, I wasn't clear. I know it works as a MDX, but I don't think I've gotten to work with Concordance that way, unless I just didn't recognize it. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 69 Fri Jul 24, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 05:42 EDT Ken, KVD> I deliberately avoided naming the cult that I mentioned. Well, you are the one that called them a "cult"... not me. I know that religious discussion isn't what this topic is for but I thought that I would just mention in passing that Jesus and his followers were considered a cult at one time. The Way. I'm not trying to say anyone is wrong or right... just that difference is ok. There are so many things that I admire about various (and I do mean various because there are certainly lots more so-called radical thought groups than the JWs and the Mormons). KVD> It probably would be wise not to name religious groups here. We KVD> could get into a really "interesting" situation. Why? OK, maybe that is a silly question. [grin] I just represent my own personal opinion... not SpiritWare's, Don's, or anyone elses. I have studied the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints (I can't remember if Latterday has a dash in it or not?), their faith, their history, and their literature. There are lots of pro and con books at my public library. Even though I don't personally agree with their way of thinking, or in their prophets, I do appreciate may of their ways. Mormons are also my and your "brothers" so I hope you don't shut them out as humans simply because you disagree with them. I'm NOT meaning to get on your case or set off some defense mechanism. I hope my comments don't offend you. I haven't been able to find much literature on the JWs. Weird, huh? I wouldn't mind studying (and using the Concordance program as an aid) with them or any group that is sincere. Hmm, maybe I should start a religious discussion topic centered around Atari users who use the Concordance program as a study aid... in GEnies Religion and Ethics RT BB. Anyone interested? It would be the place to discuss our small peer groups' religious beliefs without worrying about being off topic or in the wrong place. I doubt there are enough of us (who are interested in sharing our thoughts) to make it interesting, huh? It is important to recognise (sp?) that most of us who use Concordance (I think I'm right saying this) use it in an attempt to learn more about the scriptures and our own beliefs... or the beliefs of others. This RELIGIOUS (I prefer the word Spiritual) usage of the program is an element that I think it is OK to discuss here. Does anyone agree or disagree with me? ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 70 Fri Jul 24, 1992 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:07 EDT Don, The desk accessory STalker uses GDOS fonts as a menu option, by the way. Al ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 71 Fri Jul 24, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:56 EDT Scott, I didn't name the group here, and I don't intend to. You're the guy who named groups in that context. Of course, you know that various books that discuss cults name these groups and others. I'm aware of the beliefs of many of the groups that are generally considered cults by the more traditional Christian churches, and even taught a church school class over most of a year on the subject. I have also had friends and acquaintances who belong to various of these groups, and even invited some in to speak to my cult class. We still exchange Christmas greetings with a Mormon couple who used to be our neighbors after more than 30 years. (There, you suckered me into naming a group!) I, too, admire certain aspects of some of these groups, although I disagree with their interpretation of Scripture. How does that sound, brother? Maybe a little like, "Some of my best friends are..." Besides getting off-topic, I think it would be unfair to Don and 15th Avenue Church to get something going here. That's why I tried to choose my words carefully. You know how it is with religion and politics. Another topic would be a better idea. Go for it! I may stop in. I'm not mad, or even irritated, just a little uncomfortable. I like to develop a rapport with a person before I start discussing our differences. I could see this developing into a we-them kind of thing before we even know them. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 72 Fri Jul 24, 1992 JEFF.W [ST Sysop] at 16:06 EDT Scott and Ken, I think you both recognize that this isn't the place to discuss religious sects, cults, denominations, etc. Please check out the Relgion and Ethics Roundtable over on Page 390 for that kind of spirited discussion. (Pun intended) Seriously, the folks there would welcome your voices and your opinions. For the sake of the author of these products, as well as those who want to read more about them, please keep any religious discussion centered on how Concordance and SpiritEd serve your needs. Thank you. - Jeff Williams Asst. Sysop ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 73 Sat Jul 25, 1992 M.PASEK [HUMANIST] at 08:23 EDT I'm a user of the SpiritWare programs. Very good and easy to use. Is the Greek version of the Old Testament out yet? By the way, I'm an atheist who uses the programs to do research and write papers on the Bible. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 74 Sat Jul 25, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 09:11 EDT Jeff, I agree, as you will see if you check my last message to the end. You will notice that my second to last paragraph reads a lot like your rebuke of us. :^) It seemed appropriate, though, to explain how I was using Concordance, which was how that thing got started. After that, it took on a life of its own, as these things sometimes do. I was a little embarrassed that groups got named, and was trying to explain that that was what I was trying to avoid doing. Sorry! Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 75 Sat Jul 25, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 09:14 EDT M.PASEK, Hello! The OT was written in Hebrew, the NT in Greek. Did you mean to say "Hebrew" or "New"? One word or the other was apparently wrong in your message. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 76 Sat Jul 25, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 16:53 EDT D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton], DC> I don't know about the Masoretic text, but I (and a lot of our DC> concordance users) would like to get the NASB. I am not familiar with this translation. Could you teach me all about it and why many people want it (including yourself)? DC> I fact, maybe some of you might be able to help. Does anyone know DC> how to contact the Lockman Foundation (the owners of the NASB DC> copyright)? Well, I don't know for obvious reasons (see above [grin]) but I can tell you a good source to try, if you haven't already tried it... The Religion and Ethics RoundTable BB on GEnie page 390 I think. Just do a M390;1 or use ST Aladdin! Hmmm, I did a search in Aladdin's Product Index and it says that 390 is the Religion and Philosophy RT. I guess they changed the name or something?!? - - - - - A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt], AF> The desk accessory STalker uses GDOS fonts as a menu option, by AF> the way. Then again, you have to remember that the greatest terminal program ever written... ah hmmmm, exuse me... You have to remember that STalker can be run as a program or a desk accessory. I'm guessing that part of the process of making it a program allowed Eric Rosenquist to add such nice things as GDOS font support that also work when it is run as a Desk Accessory. Perhaps Don is correct in saying that DA's aren't supposed to use GDOS. I don't know. [grin] - - - - - K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van], KVD> Of course, you know that various books that discuss cults name KVD> these groups and others. I'm aware of the beliefs of many of the KVD> groups that are generally considered cults by the more KVD> traditional Christian churches, and even taught a church school KVD> class over most of a year on the subject. I have also had KVD> friends and acquaintances who belong to various of these KVD> groups, and even invited some in to speak to my cult class. Here I go sticking my foot in my mouth again (but at least some of this reply has to do with on topic stuff!) BUT... I thought I would mention that your comments above sound a little like a defense someone would come up with for a racial slur. While I don't care to discuss the literal meaning of the word cult, I'm sure you understand that it has a very demeaning connotation... AND that you wouldn't like it if someone called the group you worship with a cult. That is all I was trying to point out (I think?!? [grin]). Don't worry, no defense is necessary because ---> KVD> Besides getting off-topic, I think it would be unfair to Don KVD> and 15th Avenue Church to get something going here. That's why KVD> I tried to choose my words carefully. I agree with you. That is why I tried to be clear (for EVERYONE'S benefit) that I was only speaking for myself and not anyone else. I hope Don doesn't get agitated with my comments! Are you Don? Feel free to speak your mind! KVD> The OT was written in Hebrew, the NT in Greek. Hey, there is a little Arameic (sp?) in there somewhere too you know. Oh, and of course... there are a few books that weren't included in the bible canon because no original tongue copies were available and their credibility was questioned... like the book of Enoch which is refered to several times in the bible. Oh, what was my point? Oh, yeah... the earliest copy of Enoch that I know about was written in Etheopian (sp?). See: -- Concordance output -- Search command: Enoch Genesis 4:17 Genesis 4:18 Genesis 5:18 Genesis 5:19 Genesis 5:21 Genesis 5:22 Genesis 5:23 Genesis 5:24 1Chronicles 1:3 Luke 3:37 Hebrews 11:5 Jude 1:14 -- End Concordance output -- [All but Genesis 5:24, Hebrews 11:5, and Jude 1:14 are geneologies.] So Don, when will you have an Etheopian translation of Enoch available with a GDOS font? ! J U S T K I D D I N G ! [grin] I can see it now, Concordance 15.0 with every religious writing in the world available as a .CCD & .DCT file. [grin] - - - - - M.PASEK [HUMANIST], MP> Is the Greek version of the Old Testament out yet? Well, I bet there is a Greek translation of the Old Testament somewhere because how else would the Greeks have read it without learning Hebrew? ...but my question is... Why would you want a Greek translation of the Old Testament? It would just be another translation, and so far as I'm concerned, any language is as good as another. Well, sort of. MP> By the way, I'm an atheist who uses the programs to do research MP> and write papers on the Bible. I just knew some would use it in a non-traditional way. [grin] Say, I'm not afraid of information... have you written anything for public consumption that you might want to send me via GE Mail, or refer me to as posted somewhere on GEnie? I'm not exactly sure what the dictionary definition of ethist or agnostic is... but to me most so-called athiests are really agnostics... because although they profess to not-believe that God exists... they actually agree that there is a possibility that God does exist. Please send any replies concerning religious beliefs via GE Mail so as not to get a sticky message thread started, OK? Now back to the topic ---> So, more specifically... how have you used Concordance in your studies? ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 77 Sat Jul 25, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 19:29 EDT Greek users might be interested in a new book _Linguistics for Students of New Testament Greek, a Survey of Basic Concepts and Applications_ by David Alan Black with a foreward by Moises Silva, and back cover blurb by Eugene Nida. Scott, The Masoretic text is the commonly used Hebrew text of the Old Testament. the NASB - the New American Standard Version, is one of the best, most accurate English translations out for study purposes. Well, there is the Septuagint, the LXX that was translated by 70-odd rabbinic scholars in Alexandria during the intertestamental period. It isn't as accurate as the Massoretic text or the DSS, but it is useful in understanding, to a degree, how Jews used Hellenistic Greek, which can shed light on the New Testament, especially since the LXX was the Bible of the people in that time. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 78 Sun Jul 26, 1992 M.PASEK [HUMANIST] at 08:13 EDT I meant to say NEW testament. Thanks. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 79 Sun Jul 26, 1992 M.PASEK [HUMANIST] at 08:24 EDT During my studies in Religion in Philosophy in University I used Concordance to search for passages and do cross references. As to your other point, to me agnostics are really atheists. Atheism simply means not having a god centred view of nature. You can still question the existence of supreme beings and be an atheist. Agnostics on the other hand question existence of god but sit on the fence and don't go one way or another. To me, there is simply no evidence to believe in a god. As the British philosopher, and atheist, Betrand Russell said 'Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence' - no offence intended. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 80 Sun Jul 26, 1992 H.WOOTAN [Harry] at 15:00 EDT No ... an atheist believes there is no God; and an agnostic believes the human mind can't know whether there is a God, or an ultimate cause, or anything beyond material phenomena. So, since I'm SURE there's more to be said on this subject, it'd be much more appropriate to continue the discussion in the RELIGION (& whatever) RT since folks are PAYING to read messages in this RT. -- Harry ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 81 Sun Jul 26, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:21 EDT M.PASEK, You're welcome on the Greek mixup. I thought that was what you meant. Sometime within the last two weeks, I think, a price list for all products was posted here. I don't know if everything on it has been released. Does anyone know? Scott, I loaded Concordance and selected SpiritEd (MDX in MultiDesk Deluxe), and the Concordance windows moved, but the area on the bottom of the screen looked like background (gray), rather the white one expects in a window, so I don't think SpiritEd was available, although Concordance made space for it. Did you read what I included in a previous message right after I talked about books, my class, and my friends? It was a lot like what you said. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 82 Mon Jul 27, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 01:23 EDT I suspect that we'd better keep the religious instructions to other areas, and discuss the programs and how we use them, and what new features we would like to see, and why, here. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 83 Mon Jul 27, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 23:41 EDT M.PASEK [HUMANIST], MP> To me, there is simply no evidence to believe in a god. That doesn't bother me. [grin] To me, if there were proof then God would be a fact of knowledge and not require any faith at all. Thanks for sharing your usage of Concordance. Oh, you didn't answer you request for copies of your writings. - - - - - K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van], KVD> I loaded Concordance and selected SpiritEd (MDX in MultiDesk KVD> Deluxe), and the Concordance windows moved, but [...] Well, it looks like either Concordance or SpiritEd... doesn't like SpiritEd being a MDX (non-resident) accessory. I only have 1MB of RAM and even with MultiDesk Deluxe, UISIII, and HotWire! loaded (including a few other minor AUTO programs) I can still have Concordance access the entire NIV AND have SpiritEd loaded as a resident MDD accessory. Is there some advantage in loading SpiritEd as a MDX from within Concordance instead of having it resident? OK, ok... I'll bread down and test if for you. Please hold.... Hmmm, I loaded Concordance and accessed SpiritEd as a MDX accessory. Concordance made room for SpiritEd and everything seemed to work fine. I even turned on the STUDY NOTES feature and it loaded the appropriate notes for the book displayed. NOW, there was only one problem, when I closed SpiritEd and it was flushed from RAM... and then I accessed it again, Concordance made room for it on the screen but nothing happened. I guess we should turn this bug over to Don and Charles F. Johnson. I wonder who's fault it is? Say, Don Clifton... do you own MultiDesk Deluxe? Can you duplicate this bug? KVD> Did you read what I included in a previous message right after KVD> I talked about books, my class, and my friends? It was a lot KVD> like what you said. Yes, I read the WHOLE message... My comments weren't exactly meant to be directed at you specifically... but anyone who feels that way. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 84 Tue Jul 28, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:15 EDT Scott, I have no problem with using it as a resident DA. I just wanted to pursue this to see if I was doing something wrong. Now that you've seen a problem with it, too, I'll try it your way. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 85 Fri Jul 31, 1992 R.COBBLE1 [ROD] at 21:26 EDT I just read the review in Current Notes on Concordance, It sounds great! I currently use the New World Translation (which I have in Ascii) of the Bible in a program called Q-Search, that is a bible research tool written for IBM compatibles. (It is lightning fast) and have been waiting for something simular to be written for the ST. What I like about Q-Search is you can add any document to the list of publications.... there is a little .inf file the program reads and if it says bible it knows the doc is in bible chapter verse format it you type crlf, it is a doc with standard carriage return linefeeds, it also accepts and indexes straight ascii along with compressed files, (the compression program is included) The list of features is too long to list, all I can say is this program is great!! Why am I talking about it here???? I want to do the same on my ST without having to run it through an emulator! I can not give up my NWT of the bible neither can I give up several other study aids which I have converted from OCR software, that are now indexed in this fine research tool. CAN I IMPLEMENT THESE FILES INTO CONCORDANCE 3.X ??? If so you will have one happy person!! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 86 Sat Aug 01, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 00:34 EDT Rod, You'd be better off getting the Greek and Louw & Nida, Zerwick, Black and Carson if you are going to do serious study. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 87 Tue Aug 25, 1992 R.PARKER29 [Randy] at 20:14 EDT Help! Has anyone tried using the SpiritEd accessory with a MegaSTe? I get 3 bombs religiously (pun intended) when I try to access it. Is there something I'm not trying? I've tried disabling accessories and auto programs, going to 8 mhz etc. I _really_ would like for this to work. Thanks for any input. Ran. . . ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 88 Wed Aug 26, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:32 EDT SpiritEd works on my MegaSTE. Do you have the corrected upload? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 89 Wed Aug 26, 1992 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 23:16 EDT I hate to repeat a question that I know has been asked...oh, at least once...but how can I get this program. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 90 Thu Aug 27, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 08:40 EDT Randy- You must have gotten the corrupted upload of SpiritEd. SpiritEd works on any ST. In fact, it was written on a MegaSTe at 16 MHz. If you haven't already tried to get the uncorrupted copy, you might want to wait until this weekend. By then I hope to upload the latest version which corrects a problem that prevented users with color monitors from being able to save options. Within the next few months I am going to have to revise SpiritEd so it will work with all of the new Falcon video modes. Right now it only works on ST high and medium resolution. (Concordance Version 3 should already be compatible with all modes that are at least 500 pixels wide.) -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 91 Fri Aug 28, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 19:05 EDT Cliff, It's available from Fifteenth Avenue Bible Church 15211 15th Avenue NE Seattle, WA 98155 You can also download one of the new versions with the King James New Testament here on GEnie. I think there's a price list and order blank included with that file. I know there's one in the messages here back around March or April. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 92 Sat Aug 29, 1992 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 11:03 EDT Ken, Thanks for the info. I'll search the library. Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 93 Mon Aug 31, 1992 R.PARKER29 [Randy] at 23:28 EDT Ken & Don, Thanks for the reply and I guess I'll wait until I see a new version uploaded. The version I've been trying to use is the one that came on the Version 3.0 Concordance disk (61313 bytes for the .ACC). Oh well, maybe the newer one will work. By the by, are there any other bible versions or study notes available to use with this program? I think I remember seeing some blurb about additional packages, but the order form I used only had the KJV, NIV and Greek. Thanks! Ran . . . ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 94 Tue Sep 01, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 08:06 EDT Randy- I was thinking that you got SpiritEd off of GEnie, but now I realize that you got it directly from us. It should work! If the version you received doesn't work, then the one I just uploaded probably won't work either. You must have some other ACC or TSR that is fighting with it. What other desk accessories are you using and what is in your AUTO folder? As far as I know, SpiritEd is compatible with almost everything, so I would be very interested in finding out what the problem is. There are no other Bible versions available right now. We tried to make the New King James and New Revised Standard Version available to our users, but the copyright owners wanted to charge a setup fee that we simply could not afford, considering the small user base that we have. An alternative plan is to locate some place where our users can purchase ASCII text files for these versions. If this is possible, we will provide a compression program to our users that will convert the ASCII files into a form that can be used with the concordance. I will be writing the Lockman Foundation within the next few days to ask about getting the New American Standard Bible. (This is a version that I am especially interested in.) -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 95 Tue Sep 01, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 21:36 EDT ASCII to Concordance converter? Excellent! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 96 Thu Sep 03, 1992 R.PARKER29 [Randy] at 19:38 EDT Don - Thanks for your response - I appreciate it very much. Here's my setup: MegaSTe4 Quantum HD P105S (105meg - internal) SLM 804 Panasonic 24 pin printer Spectre GCR I turned off _ALL_ accessories and auto programs (except SpiritEd of course), unplugged my midi cables and my external floppy, pulled my Spectre GCR, turned off my modem and my Panasonic. I rebooted (cold), tried to access SpiritEd, and promptly got 3 bombs, my hard drive lit and _stayed_ lit, and I hit the off switch. I tried this scenario in high and medium resolution. In low rez, SpiritEd quite nicely tells me that it needs at least medium rez. Any suggestions? Thanks, Ran . . . ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 97 Fri Sep 04, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 07:43 EDT Randy- Sounds like you probably have a bad copy of SpiritEd. You could download a new copy from GEnie, or I would be happy to send you a new disk. -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 98 Fri Sep 04, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 08:06 EDT For those who are wondering, the new version of SpiritEd that was uploaded last week (25436) fixed a problem SpiritEd was having with saving options when it was being used with a color monitor. (It would post an alert box stating that it could not save the options.) -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 99 Wed Sep 16, 1992 R.PARKER29 [Randy] at 21:14 EDT Hey Don - you out there anywhere? Remember how I couldn't get SpiritEd to work on my system . . . ? I downloaded the version of SpiritEd that you recently made available and it seems to work great. I guess the version I got when I ordered the program thru the mail was corrupt in some way. I'm just glad to know I wasn't losing my mind, or missing something real obvious. I appreciate your response. I was wondering . . . would it be feasible have a commentary converted into the notes format? Kinda give you a platform from which to build some really extensive study notes! Just a thought. Ran . . . ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 100 Thu Sep 17, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 07:51 EDT Randy- I'm glad that you got SpiritEd working. Sorry about sending you a faulty disk. We do all of our disk copying with verification enabled (copying takes about 4 minutes per disk). We have also had very good success with the brand of disks that we use. This has resulted in a very low error rate, but we still have an occasional problem. Your idea about including a commentary in notes format is a great one! Now, if we could only find a source and secure permission to distribute a good commentary... Any suggestions? -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 101 Thu Sep 17, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:38 EDT Don, Lots of luck on the commentary. There will be wide differences of opinion as to what constitutes a good one. I'll be interested to see what you come up with. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 102 Fri Sep 18, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 01:23 EDT Don, Write the ABS and tell them what you are doing. I'd still like to see the BHS and possibly the LXX come out for Concordance. I will order when I get a 4 meg system. I had hoped to have it by now, but I don't know when I will find the right deal. Have you ever had the chance to look at Louw & Nida's lexicon? State-of-the- art. (from ABS). ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 103 Tue Sep 22, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 07:58 EDT I have finished modifying SpiritEd so it should now work in all ST, STe, TT, and Falcon030 screen resolutions (even ST low res!). In addition, double-click handling has been improved; and SpiritEd now reads .TXT-type clipboard files along with the .ASC files it has always read. While I was at it, I counldn't resist the temptation to add a couple of new features. With this new version (1.2), you can now easily convert text that has carriage returns at the end of each line, so it will wrap properly in SpiritEd. Also, besides being able to paste the contents of the clipboard, you can also paste text from any ASCII file. I am looking for a few people who would be willing to beta test this new version. I need people who use SpiritEd a lot and who would be willing to take some time to really give it a workout and faithfully report back to me. If you are interested in doing this, please send me e-mail. -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 104 Wed Sep 23, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:54 EDT Don, I finally got SpiritEd to work for me from within Concordance. It doesn't work, as far as I can tell, with MultiDesk Deluxe, either as an ACC or an MDX. I had to move it out to the root directory. As an ACC, it didn't do anything, as an MDX, the Concordance windows moved up to make room for it, but the SpiritEd window did not appear (or vice versa, but I think that's right). Beta tester? What's a lot? I've gotten in the habit of using EdHak for minor text jobs, but could as well switch to SpiritEd for most of them. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 105 Thu Sep 24, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 08:27 EDT Ken- I'm sorry that I can't help you with MultiDesk Deluxe since I don't have it, but I seem to remember that Scott Dowdle got SpiritEd to work with it, didn't he? Was it you, or was it some one else who was having a dialog with him on this issue? He's down in Texas for a few months attending an Air National Guard technical school. He has his ST down there with him, so maybe he is listening and can jump in here. I have to admit that "a lot" is a pretty relative term. I guess what I am looking for is someone who is going to use SpiritEd enough to give it a good workout. -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 106 Thu Sep 24, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 20:44 EDT Don, Yes, I've used SpiritEd with MultiDesk Deluxe. I've noticed that if I use it as a resident accessory it seems to work pretty well... but it doesn't seem to be a good idea to close and open it over and over... just open it once and keep it open. Notice that these comments only deal latest release available here on GEnie as of a date prior the entering of this reply. [grin] Hmmm, you don't have one of the greatest system utility programs in ST history? [grin] Talk to the CodeHeads and maybe they could work out something with you... maybe you could get a free copy for compatibility testing. I'm sure they wouldn't mind a free package from you (assuming they aren't already registered owners). OF COURSE I'M NOT SPEAKING FOR ANYONE! You are familiar with MultiDesk Deluxe I hope? If you say no, I'm sure your eyes will be buring with testamony replies from various folks around here. [grin] So, the latest beta even works in Low resolution, eh? That sounds like a deal... imagine being able to read 80 column documents in Low Resolution with a Horizontal scroll bar. A good idea! - - - - - So, gang... what's up? TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 107 Fri Sep 25, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:54 EDT I was the one who corresponded with Scott about SpiritEd. I just hadn't messed with it in a while in Concordance. If using it a few times a week is enough, sign me up. Scott, Nice to hear from you! I agree that MultiDesk is a sweet program. Every Atarian should have it. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 108 Sat Sep 26, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 08:31 EDT I really feel like a pariah, not having MultiDesk. I didn't realize that one needed to own MulitDesk to be politically correct around here. Actually, when I get more than six DAs that I can't live without, I will seriously consider buying it. Until then, the only reason I can see for getting it is to test SpiritEd with it--but it looks like I have plenty of volunteers who can do that! I am not sure how MultiDesk works, but when SpiritEd is initialized at boot- up, it allocates several buffers in memory that it needs to stay attached to. The most important of these is the text buffer itself. If SpiritEd is swapped out and restarted from scratch, this buffer will be lost. So, I think that it is important for SpiritEd to remain resident. Another potential source of problems is that SpiritEd checks the application ID that it receives with the AC_OPEN message to make sure that it matches the one assigned at boot-up before it opens its window. If MultiDesk alters this ID, SpiritEd's window will not open. If this is a problem, it can probably be solved by ignoring the ID and simply opening the window whenever an AC_OPEN is received. (I don't think that AES will send an AC_OPEN to an accessory unless it belongs to that accessory, but this one of those many gray areas where DRI and Atari have not adequately documented the operating characteristics of the AES. I have written accessories that ignore the application ID in the AC_OPEN message and I haven't had any problems with them so far.) -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 109 Sat Sep 26, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 16:24 EDT Don Clifton, > when I get more than six DAs that I can't live without, I will > seriously consider buying it. Until then, the only reason I can see > for getting it is to test SpiritEd with it Forget the politically correct stuff. [grin] MDD does more than just allow for more than 6 accessories. It will let you load and unload single desk accessory or groups of DAs. This isn't a sales pitch... BUT if you are developing a desk accessory (and YOU ARE) being able to load and unload it at will, or even being able to have multiple versions accessible... all without having to reboot... well, you get the idea. I USED to be a beta tester for STalker and MDD was just the thing to shuffle between the release version and the beta version. Enough of that. [grin] > I am not sure how MultiDesk works, but when SpiritEd is initialized I'm sure that the CodeHeads would be happy to discuss how MDD works and how to resolve any compatibility problems that you/we might run into... especially since you are a developer. Again, I don't speak for them, but the are known for the programming help tips and I bet they could shed more light on all of those not-so-well documented GEM quirks. Have you contacted them yet? If you feel uncomfortable doing so, I'd be happy to do it for you. I'm sort of surprised that John Eidsvoog hasn't popped up in this topic yet... I mean the guy practically shows up everywhere in the ST RT BB. TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 110 Mon Sep 28, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:24 EDT Don, MultiDesk Deluxe lets you designate ACCs as either resident or nonresident, and then select which you want to use from a potentially long list. The nonresident ones don't take memory, unlike the ones that you have in the root directory. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 111 Sat Nov 14, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:29 EST I don't know if I reported that I have gotten SpiritEd to work from within Concordance. It has to be in the root directory, and does not appear to work from MultiDesk Deluxe. I've had a problem. I tried to select a verse, copy it into SpiritEd, select another, copy it, etc., but I soon ran out of memory. I discovered that for some reason the file had repeated verses. It seemed be appending them, and appending the new one to all of the previous ones, putting them all into the file again. kvd ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 112 Tue Nov 17, 1992 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 06:08 EST K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van], > It has to be in the root directory, and does not appear to work > from MultiDesk Deluxe. Are you talking about the newest beta version? I've had no trouble with the newest beta version working (several folders deep) as a resident DA inside of MultiDesk Deluxe. My guess is that you are running low on RAM and need to do a little better on the buffer configurations for MDD. I'm only using 1MB of RAM with MDD and HotWire loaded. No problems here. [grin] > I discovered that for some reason the file had repeated verses. I believe that selected verses will remain selected until you deselect them... so if you are selecting verses, doing a block operation with them and then selecting more... are still have all of the original verses as well. That is to say that doing a block operation doesn't deselect verses. TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 113 Tue Nov 17, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 07:55 EST Ken- As Scott mentioned, we have a beta test version that works well with MDD. It hasn't been released yet because it is still being tested to make sure it works OK with the TT. As soon as that testing is finished, I will upload it to GEnie. (Besides fixing the MDD problem and making it work with non-ST monitors, I couldn't resist adding a couple of new features to it!) Sometimes I have the same problem with selecting the verses as you do. I get into the habit of holding the shift key down when I select verses. When the shift key is held down, the verse you are selecting gets added to the previous ones. When you want to select a new set of verses, you need to select the first verse without holding down the shift key. -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 114 Wed Nov 18, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:00 EST Scott and Don, I'm using v. 1.2b. Is that the latest? I may have gotten mixed up. [I thought I was testing the latest one for you.] The deselection idea sounds good. I wonder how many texts I can select from various books at one time. I guess I thought when I went to a different book or had copied some verses from a particular book and moved on to others in the same book that the previous ones would be deselected. Yes, Don, I may have started to select a group of texts with the shift down. I'll try to remember to leave it up when I pick the first of a group, so it will cancel the previous selections. Nice feature! Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 115 Thu Nov 19, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 00:51 EST How is the Greek version coming? I hope to be set up for it within the next couple of months. And then put it to good use! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 116 Thu Nov 19, 1992 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 07:54 EST Ken- I forgot that you were testing SpiritEd 1.2 with MultiDesk Deluxe (MDD). You must not have received the final version. Scott Dowdle, John Eidsvoog, and I engaged in some trouble shooting with MDD. The problem involved some quirk in the way events were being handled by either TOS or MDD, I'm not sure which. Anyway, we were able to come up with a work-around. I'll upload the latest to you so you can verify (hopefully) that the problem has been solved. You were wondering how many verses at a time you could select from the Text window of the concordance program. The answer is 100. (If you have Version 3.0, you can shift double-click to select a series of consecutive verses, but there is still a 100-verse limit.) Meneldil- The Greek version has been out for 4 months. -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 117 Fri Nov 20, 1992 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 01:35 EST Don, Great, you will get an order in the next couple of months, when I get my system up to where it can run 3.0/Greek. God Willing, of course. I sure could have used it this semester! Unfortunately I couldn't part with my computer during the semester to get the RAM upgraded. :-( ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 118 Fri Nov 20, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 19:06 EST Don, I got the upload, and will let you know if it works for me. Thanx. I guess I'd better decide if I'm going to stick with v. 2 or go for 3, and then get that check in. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 119 Fri Nov 20, 1992 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 21:08 EST Don: Eeegad, I thought you had not released v3.0 yet. Boy, did I miss a big post. I get my check in the mail to upgrade. I still have my July flyer. I will use it. David <>< ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 120 Sun Nov 22, 1992 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 17:12 EST Don, It appears that the version of SpiritEd you sent me works fine as a resident AC in MultiDesk Deluxe. I tried it with Concordance, and had no problems. I'll keep you posted. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 121 Sat Jan 09, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 11:56 EST As of December 31, 1992, SpiritWare's licensing agreement with Zondervan to distribute the NIV Bible expired. The terms of the new agreement would require us to distribute at least 1000 copies per year. This quota is impossible considering the size of the Atari market. (We have distributed less than 400 over the last 3 years.) Please pass this information along to others who are using our software, and please pray that Zondervan will consider exempting us from this requirement. We will probably be making the Revised Standard Version available fairly soon in place of the NIV. We are also still attempting to get permission to distribute the New American Standard Bible. You might pray for our success in doing that as well. Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 122 Sat Jan 09, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 23:11 EST Don, That's unpleasant news. Sounds to me like it's a case for the Fellow who drove the moneylenders out of the temple. But I guess that I don't understand what Zondervan would actually stand to lose, whether you distributed one copy or a million. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 123 Sat Jan 09, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:21 EST Don, I have some friends at Zondervan. I don't know if I can do any good, but I'll try. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 124 Tue Jan 12, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 19:16 EST I'm not surprised, alas. Just found out today that the New Geneva Study Bible likewise got stuck by Zondervan (which is owned by Harper-Collins, which is owned in turn by the British outfit that prints the sleazy, pornographic London tabloids). Zondervan wanted 20% of the sales, which would have broken the project, which Zondervan must have understood, so they had to go to a poorer translation. I hope you get the NASB to replace the NIV. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 125 Sat Jan 16, 1993 R.AVERYT2 [Mr. Ron] at 19:27 EST I was thinking about ordering the NIV version from y'all, but it looks like I procrastinated too long. :( Yow! Zondervan and sleazy tabloids. If that connection is true, it kinda sounds like the ingredients for a really weird boycott. - Mr. Ron ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 126 Sat Jan 16, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 22:58 EST UBS cosomethinged with Zondervan on the NIV, so it might be useful to try that route. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 127 Sun Jan 17, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 20:00 EST I hadn't heard who took over Zondervan. It was started by a Christian family (couple of brothers) from my denomination. A few years ago there was talk that someone with sleazy connections was making a takeover bid, but he didn't make it. I guess if the company doesn't keep doing what it has been doing, it loses its purpose for existence, so I can't imagine someone taking it over and then changing it too much. Ironic, isn't it? Meneldil, That's co-somethinged. You have to go back to the original Greek. ;^) Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 128 Mon Jan 25, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 21:11 EST Could you please post the current options and price list for Concordance? (especially the Greek) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 130 Wed Jan 27, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 07:17 EST I would like to post the order form with all of the options and prices on it, but I can't because it is considered advertising. So if anyone wants that information, send me a note and I will forward it to you. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 131 Wed Jan 27, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 20:24 EST You can't advertise in your own support topic? ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 132 Thu Jan 28, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou Rocha] at 07:33 EST Meneldil, users in the RT expect to find technical support and related items in the support topics. Sales items should be in the sales topics (CATEGORY 27) or in library files. Please note that upgrade announcements may also be considered support. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 133 Fri Jan 29, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:59 EST Can you include prices in a README file attached to SpiritEd or the Concordance demo? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 134 Fri Jan 29, 1993 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 08:35 EST Hello Gang, My wife, 9.5 month old son, and I are visiting Seattle - Children's hospital and have had the opportunity to visit with Don Clifton... who just happens to be a very nice guy. Anyways, I just happen to hear that it looks like the NIV translation rights might be extended for at least one more year and maybe thereafter if minimum sales are 100 copies. This certainly isn't an official announcement (Don will make that at the appropriate time I'm sure) just a heads up semi-rumor... ok? - - - - - Regarding posting a price listing here in this catagory... I would think that when a user requests one that providing one could be considered support, right? I see folks do it all the time in other cts and topics. Would this be ok SysOp-people? TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 135 Fri Jan 29, 1993 DARLAH [RT~SYSOP] at 10:11 EST When a member requests a price, you can certainly give it to them. If a member requests an ad in a specific sense, we send them to Category 27. There is a difference. When a members asks for information, you indeed give them an answer when you can. That is what support is all about. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 136 Fri Jan 29, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 20:36 EST Lou, OK, I was just surprised that the support topic for a given program was unable to list the price and ordering instructions for that item. I don't know about others, but it is nice to read a support topic _prior_ to purchase. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 137 Fri Jan 29, 1993 POTECHIN [Nathan] at 22:44 EST You CAN respond to the needs of your customers and indicate the pricing and ordering information. What is frowned upon is blatant advertising on a regular basis. :-) If someone asked me the price of Calamus SL over in my Category and how to order it, I would be pleased to tell them and wouldn't hesitate to do so. The same applies here. Nathan @ DMC ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 138 Sat Jan 30, 1993 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 03:46 EST Hello Again Folks! So, I guess the consensus answer (including those in authority) would be that Don post a reply with a complete product listing, pricing information, and ordering instructions. Glad to hear it!!! Thanks for helping to clear that up!!! (grin) Don, oh Don... where are you? Hope to hear from you soon. On a different subject... here is an Easter Egg command for users of Concordance v2.x (removed from v3.x). Hit ^T (CONTROL T) before you do a search. I didn't discover it nor have I tried it yet but it is supposed to do something. What? Well, everyone try it and give me a report. Oh, make sure to do a search after you have hit ^T to find this somewhat esoteric "hidden" feature. So, when are the unpublished books of the Dead Sea Scrolls coming out in Concordance format? (grin) TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 139 Sat Jan 30, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:28 EST I thought it was 1000. Seems as though 100 might be do-able. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 140 Wed Feb 03, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 07:42 EST I have some good news for those of you who use the SpiritWare concordance program. First, Zondervan has granted us an exemption to the requirement that we distribute 1000 copies of the NIV Bible per year. We will only have to distribute 100 per year. This will allow us to provide the NIV for at least one more year. Second, the Lockman foundation has agreed to let us distribute the New American Standard Bible (NASB). We should be receiving the files containing the NASB within a few weeks; it will then take a few more weeks to prepare everything for distribution. This means that the NASB should be available by the end of March at the latest. (We will be requesting a donation of $30 for the NASB.) Thanks for your prayers and support. -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 141 Thu Feb 04, 1993 M.JONES52 [Jonesy] at 22:49 EST That's mighty fine news, Don. Thanks. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 142 Fri Feb 05, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:20 EST I was planning to pursue the Zondervan problem next weekend when I go to the Calvin College homecoming in Grand Rapids. I know there will be people there who work for Zondervan. I guess I won't need to do that now. My daughter turned me into a grandfather last Friday, so I'll now have more time to visit with my new grandaughter while I'm in town. Maybe I could at least pass on my appreciation to Zondervan via whoever. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 143 Sun Feb 07, 1993 J.MOSES2 [moses] at 12:21 EST Great,Don! Thanks for a terrific program - use it CONSTANTLY!!! Jim ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 144 Wed Mar 10, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 19:21 EST Any changes on the price list and options for Concordance 3? I now have the 4 megs of RAM, finally! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 145 Thu Mar 11, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 08:12 EST Meneldil- The only change is that the NASB should be available by the end of the month. (It is up and running on my machine now.) We will be asking $30 for it. ----------------------- On another subject, it has come to our attention that a company called "Bill's Utilities" has been selling copies of our concordance program with the NIV text and without a manual. "Bills Utilities" has no agreement with us or Zondervan (the administrator of the NIV copyright) to do this. These copies are illegal. If you have any information about "Bill's Utilities", we would appreciate hearing from you. -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 146 Fri Mar 12, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 01:19 EST Don, Then I should send you $20 for 3.0 and $30 for the Greek module, right? If so, I plan on doing so rather soon! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 147 Fri Mar 12, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 07:51 EST Meneldil- That is correct. -Don ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 148 Fri Mar 12, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:00 EST Don, It sounds as though Bill could find himself in big trouble, messing with a company the size of Zondervan. That's a little different than a little Atari developer. A fellow named Charles O. Beck had a letter in the February ST Informer asking about various things, including where he can get a good "Bible-on-floppy" in NASB or NIV. Rod MacDonald ignored that part of the letter, so I sent Rod GEmail to tell him about Concordance. I mentioned NIV, but not NASB. I guess I should send a followup. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 149 Tue Mar 16, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 01:04 EST Shortly after posting my last message about Bill's Utilities I was contacted by Mr. Bill Pike who operates Bill's Utilities. He was very cooperative and we have now resolved this issue in an amiable manner. I have noticed that many people have difficulty in understanding when and how SpiritWare material can be copied. The KJV is public domain and can be copied without restriction. The NIV, NASB, and Greek NT are copyrighted, as stated in their respective startup messages. Permission is granted for them to be copied to a single hard disk as a part of the license agreement that is sent with these versions when they have been ordered from us. Both the concordance and SpiritEd are copyrighted by SpiritWare. They are not in the public domain, they are not "freeware". The conditions under which allow them to be copied are clearly stated in the About entry on the Desk menu. They are not really "shareware" either, because we do not place a moral obligation on those who use them to send us any money. (We do provide additional services to those who order the programs from us, including an instruction manual, a disk with the most recent version of the program on it, and registration for notification of new versions.) I hope this helps to clear up these issues. I anyone has any questions, I would be happy to try to answer them. -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 150 Sun Mar 21, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 15:11 EST Warp 9 uses ASCII files in the files used in the Fortune Cookie module used in Extend-O-Save. I think I may use Concordance to find some texts that might be appropriate, and make up a file of them for EOS. John Eidsvoog suggested that I might like to upload a file of "fortunes", but we weren't speaking of Scripture texts at the time. I guess we couldn't use NIV for that because of the copyright, right? Or wouldn't that apply to 50 or so isolated, random texts? I'd hate to use the KJV. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 151 Sun Mar 21, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 23:07 EST Ken, I think that as far as papers are concerned, you can use up to 1,000 verses without violating copyright, but check the copyright page first. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 152 Mon Mar 22, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:19 EST Oh, here you are again, Meneldil! Thanks for the information. I'll check the copyright page, but I'm doubtful it will be that specific. The heavens declare the glory of God. So you're into planetariums, too. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 153 Mon Mar 22, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 08:38 EST I'm not speaking as an official Zondervan representative, but I think that it would be OK to quote random verses from the NIV as long as (NIV) was tacked on to the end of each quotation. If this is going to be sold or be distributed in mass, you should probably get an official approval. You could write to: Marla Bliss Rights and Permissions Zondervan Publishing House 5300 Patterson Avenue, S.E. Grand Rapids,MI 49530 (616) 698-6900 The license agreement for the NASB (which is still on schedule for the end of the month) contains explicit instructions stating that up to 500 verses can be quoted in not-for-sale media as long as (NASB) is used at the end of each quotation. Anything use that exceeds these restrictions must be be approved in writing by The Lockman Foundation. -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 154 Thu Mar 25, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 00:23 EST Ken, Yep. I've loved star-gazing since I was a little kid. Don, Did you get my check yet? ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 155 Mon Mar 29, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 19:33 EST It came today. Naturally, I'm baffled about GDOS. Are the necessary files available in the GEnie library? Can anyone help me get ahold of the right files? ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 156 Wed Mar 31, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 19:07 EST What is wrong with this: (it isn't working) ;> ASSIGN.SYS Created with FONTGDOS CPX/ACC Copyright 1991 Atari Corp. ;> For use with GDOS 1.1 and higher. ;> Last modified on 11/20/1985 00:05 ;> PATH = C:\GEMSYS 1P SCREEN.SYS 2P SCREEN.SYS 3P SCREEN.SYS GREEKMED.FNT 4P SCREEN.SYS GREEKHI.FNT 5P ASSIGN.SYS 6P ASSIGN.SYS 7P ASSIGN.SYS 8P MEMORY.SYS 9P ASSIGN.SYS 21P NB15.SYS LQENGLSH.FNT LQGREEK.FNT ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 157 Thu Apr 01, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:08 EST Meneldil, Your PATH statement is commented out. (GEnie wrecked the fomatting, but I spotted the ";" in front of PATH=... Take the semicolon out so that PATH starts the line. Al ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 158 Sat Apr 03, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 13:30 EST GEnie wrecked the formating, it really looks like this: ;> ASSIGN.SYS Created with FONTGDOS CPX/ACC Copyright 1991 Atari Corp. ;> For use with GDOS 1.1 and higher. ;> Last modified on 4/1/1993 16:31 ;> PATH = C:\GEMSYS 1P SCREEN.SYS 2P SCREEN.SYS 3P SCREEN.SYS GREEKMED.FNT 4P SCREEN.SYS GREEKHI.FNT 21P NB15.SYS LQENGLSH.FNT LQGREEK.FNT What happens is that FontGDOS loads fine, but when I try to run Concordance3, it locks up as it starts to load. And it runs fine when FontGDOS is not loaded. Now, it works, and looks like this: ;> ASSIGN.SYS Created with FONTGDOS CPX/ACC Copyright 1991 Atari Corp. ;> For use with GDOS 1.1 and higher. ;> Last modified on 11/20/1985 02:50 ;> PATH = C:\GEMSYS 1P SCREEN.SYS 2P SCREEN.SYS 3P SCREEN.SYS GREEKMED.FNT 4P SCREEN.SYS GREEKHI.FNT 5P SCREEN.SYS 6P SCREEN.SYS 7P SCREEN.SYS 8P SCREEN.SYS 9P SCREEN.SYS 21 NB15.SYS LQENGLSH.FNT LQGREEK.FNT 31 META.SYSa It would seem that in FontGDOS, `MEM.SYS' needs to be renamed to `SCREEN.SYS' =-=-=-=-=-=-=-= On another subject, the statistics graph would be more useful if it gave both total occurances as it does, and frequency of occurance (percentages), selectable between them, and had the actual numbers or percentages depending which, on the left hand side verticaly. Perhaps with grid. This looks to be a powerful research tool. I haven't compared it yet with MacBible or Gramcord, but I suspect Concordance 3 compares favorably. The parsing _could_ include dividing the elements of the word, but I don't know how difficult that would be to implement. Probably very. Now that you have the GNT working, how about the LXX and the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia? (or even Ben Assher). ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 159 Sun Apr 04, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 11:12 EDT We have received final approval from The Lockman Foundation, and we are now officially commencing our distribution of the NASB. We are asking for a donation of $30 for this text, if possible. Our address is: SpiritWare Fifteenth Avenue Bible Church 15211 15th Avenue N.E. Seattle, WA 98155 (Like all other texts that we supply, you must have the SpiritWare Concordance Program to view/search/print/save the NASB. If you would like an order form send email to D.CLIFTON4. We would post an entire order form here for your convenience; however, we have been informed that this would constitute commercial advertising and therefore would violate GEnie policies.) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 160 Thu Apr 08, 1993 C.ALLEN17 [Cliff] at 22:41 EDT Don, E-mail me an order form. Thanks Cliff (Ashevillite) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 161 Fri Apr 09, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:57 EDT Don, I sent Rod MacDonald GEmail after our recent exchange about ST Informer, but the latest STI still has no mention of Concordance (not even an answer to the gentleman's question about such programs). I'm going to see if I can find the announcement that was posted here a year or so ago, and send it to him. As a longtime subscriber, I think he could at least give me an answer to my GEmail, whether he wants to publish my letter or not. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 162 Sat Apr 10, 1993 D.FARRINGTO1 [David <>< .] at 23:03 EDT Ken: I'm sure Rod will be glad to print you letter (answer). David <>< ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 163 Sat Apr 10, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 23:41 EDT David, I wrote him to ask why he neither acknowledge my letter nor printed it. I'll let you know what he says. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 164 Mon Apr 12, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 01:23 EDT Say, Christianity Today just had an article comparing many concordance programs. Yours wasn't mentioned. I recommend that you send them a review or letter to the editor or offer to let them test your program. Something like that. BTW, Gramcord is coming out for the Mac this summer. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 165 Mon Apr 12, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:54 EDT CT probably doesn't have an Atari to test it on. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 166 Tue Apr 13, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 07:36 EDT Yes, I doubt that Chrstianity Today would make the effort to find an ST to run it on, since there are so few ST's and ST users. I haven't seen this particular article, but I have seen a lot of general Bible software reviews in other publications and I've never seen anything besides PC and Mac applications reviewed. The SpiritWare concordance program has been reviewed in an number of Atari-specific magazines (Current Notes, START, PSAN, BRACE, and several British and German publications). ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 167 Wed Apr 14, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 22:51 EDT It would be nice if somehow folks could be made aware that such a great program is available on the ST. It would be one less argument against getting one. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 168 Thu Apr 15, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 21:20 EDT Don, Here is another idea for you: The ability to print out the verses parallel from more than one translation. Right now, I am studying for an Acts&Paul test, and we have quite a bit of Greek to read and translate. It would be very handy if I could have printed out the Greek and KJV verses together, for vocabulary purposes. Instead, only the left column on screen printed out, so I had to switch them and then print out the KJV, and now they aren't parallel, it will be usable, but not quite the most desireable. BTW, the printout sure looks good! ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 169 Sat Apr 17, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 12:31 EDT There are likely other students, and some pastors out there with STs. There is also the European market to consider, although I don't know that CT reaches there. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 170 Sat Apr 17, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 21:20 EDT Meneldil, I'd like to see Concordance get the exposure, and I think there may more of a market than Don has reached. The question is how to get CT to do a review if they don't have the hardware to run the program. BTW, a geology student of mine told me today, while on a field trip, that he has a program similar to this with both Hebrew and Greek. I was trying to impress him with what a terrific program this is. :^( He claims to use the Greek. Pretty good. I'm wondering if someone with an interest in words, who knows about Greek origins of a lot of English words (many in science), might be able to get _some_ use out of the Greek features in Concordance. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 171 Sat Apr 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:44 EDT I know a couple of pastors with STs. One of them, a long-time owner, also ran a BBS for quite some time on his ST, but he hasn't been on GEnie in a while. He's Stuart Lyster, of BC, Canada. Al ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 172 Tue Apr 20, 1993 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 02:53 EDT Hello Gang, Just thought that I'd mention that I finally got my STfm upgraded to 4MB of RAM so I can actually run Concordance 3. I've ordered it and hopefully it will arrive anyday now WITH the Greek NT, etc. I'm NOT a student of Greek (yet anyway) but it will be nice to finally see what everyone is talking about! (grin) I too think there is a bigger market for Concordance. A friend and I are working on marketing an Amiga program that is basically a clone of Concordance. I'm not a programmer, nor am I an Amiga owner... but my friend is. I would just like to publically thank Don for all of the help he has provided in this project. The Amiga concordance is compatible with with SpiritWare's bible texts so a lot is taken care of from the start! We have a long way to go on this project so don't start asking too many questions for your Amiga friends yet. TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 173 Thu Apr 22, 1993 S.HALLETT1 at 01:46 EDT Scott, You are going to be so _blessed_ when it's installed. This program must be the reason the computer was invented :^) Don, I've finally gone online, though I think I'm having modem Bambi Legs from time to time. It really was a joy to help beta test v.3 last summer, if you should need help again, let me know. I made up a "Proverb Cookie" EOS text file for Warp 9. It was a snap with the Concordance and Spirited. Bless, Stephen [S.HALLETT1] ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 174 Thu Apr 22, 1993 C.COOK7 [Cliff] at 20:52 EDT Just downloaded the demo and KJV-NT. What I've seen so far looks interesting enough. Are there any docs available for Concordance or SpiritED? I would particularly like to investigate the Boolean search capabilities. Please send me a price list of products and translations you have available. I am attempting to determine the suitability of this product both for professional use by our minister and for my own personal use. Thanks! Cliff ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 176 Fri Apr 23, 1993 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 10:39 EDT C.COOK7 [Cliff], First off, sorry for my previous posting... I copied your original message to a reply message and meant to edit it (like you see below) before I sent it off... but I had a brain fart with Aladdin! CC> Are there any docs available for Concordance or SpiritED? There are two levels of the Concordance program. The Concordance 2 and Concordance 3 programs. You downloaded a demo of Concordance 2 and there aren't any text file docs included with it I don't think. Don Clifton [D.CLIFTON4] is the author and you can find him active in this topic. Please pardon while I give you some background information. I'm just a USER of the program so my statements are just my opinions, ok? Anyways, Concordance is SpiritWare. What's that? Well, I originally thought that it was shareware but it really isn't as Don corrected on a some posts ago. There is a sort of "registration fee" but it isn't required... BUT there are some advantages for paying for the program itself. First off, you will get a really fantastic printed manual which is better than many commercial packages I've seen. You will also get a spiffy labeled original disk including extra support programs that you might find handy for use with Concordance. There are two separate manuals - one for Concordance 2 and one for Concordance 3 so you don't get more details than you need if you order Concordance 2. CC> Please send me a price list of products and translations you CC> have available. Don is in the process of moving I think so if he takes a few days to get back to you be more forgiving. (grin) I'm POSITIVE that you will get a nice GEnie Mail from him with a product list ASAP if you haven't gotten one already. CC> I am attempting to determine the suitability of this product CC> both for professional use by our minister and for my own CC> personal use. There are some "sort of hidden" features to the Concordance 2 that you downloaded. They're not hidden on purpose, its just that you don't have manual to make you aware of what's there. There was some text file documentation included with an earlier version that I'll GEnie Mail you. Look for that soon. As for the suitability of Concordance... believe me, it is a stable program with a lot of featurs... and if you have 2MB or 4MB of RAM you can use Concordance 3 which has _LOTS_! more features than Concordance 3 including the Greek NT and dictionary as an option. I'll refer you to a review of Concordance 3 in the July/August 1992 issue of CURRENT NOTES magazine. If you have or can find that review you can learn all about Concordance 3... and it even includes several screen shots so you can see what the online Greek looks like. Don appears to be completely committed to future support and he is/was working to make Concordance take advantage of MultiTOS and to be more Multi- TOS friendly for those who want to multi-task Concordance in the not to distant future. I don't know the status of that project though. If you have any more questions, you know where to ask. TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 177 Fri Apr 23, 1993 BRIAN.H [ST~SysOp] at 10:58 EDT SCOTT, I have deleted message 175 that you wrote without editing. Have a nice day. Brian ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 178 Fri Apr 23, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 18:29 EDT I'll look for it, Stephen. I got started with a similar plan, but haven't finished it. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 179 Sat Apr 24, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 06:23 EDT Scott! This is a family-oriented topic. We don't see that kind of vulgar remark in the other topics. ;^) Just joking. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 180 Sat Apr 24, 1993 C.COOK7 [Cliff] at 22:38 EDT Scott: Thanks for the text file. I intend to make good use of it this weekend. Cliff ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 181 Sun Apr 25, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 09:37 EDT I've been keeping up with what has been going on here, but haven't had a chance to respond until now. Like Scott says, we are in the process of moving and that has been keeping me really busy. (This has turned out to be a long, drawn-out process with the outcome still somewhat uncertain.) Anyway, I would like to thank Stephen (S.HALLETT1) for his kind and encouraging remarks about the concordance program. I would also like to thank Scott (L.DOWDLE1) for fielding Cliff's (C.COOK7) questions. I'm not sure if Cliff ever received an updated order form, so I will be sending him one. I'm in the process of trying to put together another newsletter that will be sent to all of our registered users. I hope to get it out sometime in May. -Don Clifton SpiritWare ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 182 Sun Apr 25, 1993 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 16:33 EDT Hello Again Gang, The Concordance 3 with UBS Greek NT arrived Friday the 23rd. I was using the older GDOS that came with Gribnif's STalker and I didn't have a printer driver so Concordance 3 spit at me for a while. I downloaded the FONTGDOS and CPX files and basically modernized my old STfm so it would be more Atari Modern. I'm still running TOS 1.4 but the 4MB RAM upgrade really has changed the way I use my computer. Concordance 3 is fantastic. The only bugs that I've found is that sometimes (with the GkNT loaded) the About... dropdown box text is displayed in Greek and if SpiritEd is loaded into MultiDesk Deluxe as a resident accessory, the window change function keys don't work while SpiritEd is the active window. Besides those two EXTREMELY MINOR things, Concordance 3 is fantastic!!! TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 183 Sun Apr 25, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 23:44 EDT Ken, There is a program for the ST that has the OT Hebrew? Cliff, If your pastor knows and or uses Greek, Concordance 3 is a great research tool! Check the info sheet on it. Very powerfull. A simple example of what it can do: Search command: adultery Matthew 5 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.(KJV) Matthew 19 9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.(KJV) Mark 10 11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.(KJV) Luke 16 18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from [her] husband committeth adultery.(KJV) Romans 7 2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to [her] husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of [her] husband. 3 So then if, while [her] husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.(KJV) (actually +moix+) Search command: moicheuseis/moicheuthenai/moichatai/moichalis/moicheiai/ moichalidi/moicheuseis/moicheuei/mo hoi/moicheiai/ moicheuomene/moicheuein/moicheueis/moichalida /moichoi/ moichous/moichalides/moichalidos/moicheuontas/moichalis/ moichaomai/moicheia/moiche /moichos Matthew 5 27 Ekousate oti errethe Ou moicheuseis 32 ego de lego umin oti pas o apoluon ten gunaika autou parektos logou porneias poiei auten moicheuthenai kai os ean apolel enen gamesei moichatai(GkNT) Matthew 12 39 o de apokritheis eipen autois Genea ponera kai moichalis semeion epizetei kai semeion ou dothesetai autei ei me to semei Iona tou prophetou(GkNT) Matthew 15 19 ek gar tes kardias exerchontai dialogismoi poneroi phonoi moicheiai porneiai klopai pseudomarturiai blasphemiai(GkNT) Matthew 16 4 Genea ponera kai moichalis semeion epizetei kai semeion ou dothesetai autei ei me to semeion Iona kai katalipon autous ap then(GkNT) Matthew 19 9 lego de umin oti os an apolusei ten gunaika autou me epi porneiai kai gamesei allen moichatai 18 legei autoi Poias o de Iesous eipen To Ou phoneuseis Ou moicheuseis Ou klepseis Ou pseudomartureseis(GkNT) Mark 7 22 moicheiai pleonexiai poneriai dolos aselgeia ophthalmos poneros blasphemia uperephania aphrosune(GkNT) Mark 8 38 os gar ean epaischunthei me kai tous emous logous en tei geneai tautei tei moichalidi kai amartoloi kai o uios tou anthr ou epaischunthesetai auton otan elthei en tei doxei tou patros autou meta t on angelon ton agion(GkNT) Mark 10 11 kai legei autois Os an apolusei ten gunaika autou kai gamesei allen moichatai ep' auten 12 kai ean aute apolusasa ton andra autes gamesei allon moichatai 19 tas entolas oidas Me phoneuseis Me moicheuseis Me klepseis Me pseudomartureseis Me apostereseis Tima ton patera sou kai n metera(GkNT) Luke 16 18 Pas o apoluon ten gunaika autou kai gamon eteran moicheuei kai o apolelumenen apo andros gamon moicheuei(GkNT) Luke 18 11 o Pharisaios statheis pros eauton tauta proseucheto O theos eucharisto soi oti ouk eimi osper oi loipoi ton anthropon ar ges adikoi moichoi e kai os outos o telones 20 tas entolas oidas Me moicheuseis Me phoneuseis Me klepseis Me pseudomartureseis Tima ton patera sou kai ten metera(GkNT) John 8 3 agousin de oi grammateis kai oi Pharisaioi gunaika epi moicheiai kateilemmenen kai stesantes auten en mesoi 4 legousin autoi Didaskale aute e gune kateileptai ep' autophoroi moicheuomene(GkNT) Romans 2 22 o legon me moicheuein moicheueis o bdelussomenos ta eidola ierosuleis(GkNT) Romans 7 3 ara oun zontos tou andros moichalis chrematisei ean genetai andri eteroi ean de apothanei o aner eleuthera estin apo tou mou tou me einai auten moichalida genomenen andri eteroi(GkNT) Romans 13 9 to gar Ou moicheuseis Ou phoneuseis Ou klepseis Ouk epithumeseis kai ei tis etera entole en toi logoi toutoi anakephalaio ai en toi Agapeseis ton plesion sou os seauton(GkNT) 1Corinthians 6 9 e ouk oidate oti adikoi theou basileian ou kleronomesousin me planasthe oute pornoi oute eidololatrai oute moichoi oute m akoi oute arsenokoitai(GkNT) Hebrews 13 4 Timios o gamos en pasin kai e koite amiantos pornous gar kai moichous krinei o theos(GkNT) James 2 11 o gar eipon Me moicheuseis eipen kai Me phoneuseis ei de ou moicheueis phoneueis de gegonas parabates nomou(GkNT) James 4 4 moichalides ouk oidate oti e philia tou kosmou echthra tou theou estin os ean oun boulethei philos einai tou kosmou echth s tou theou kathistatai(GkNT) 2Peter 2 14 ophthalmous echontes mestous moichalidos kai akatapaustous amartias deleazontes psuchas asteriktous kardian gegumnasmene pleonexias echontes kataras tekna(GkNT) Revelation 2 22 idou ballo auten eis klinen kai tous moicheuontas met' autes eis thlipsin megalen ean me metanoesosin ek ton ergon autes kNT) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 184 Mon Apr 26, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:01 EDT Meneldil, It was a PC program that had Hebrew or Aramaic, according to the guy I spoke with. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 185 Mon Apr 26, 1993 C.COOK7 [Cliff] at 22:02 EDT Meneldil Thanks! Cliff ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 186 Tue Apr 27, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 08:42 EDT Thanks for the bug report, Scott. I've known about the About... problem for a couple of weeks now. It should be really easy to fix, but since it is rather obscure and totally innocuous (and since I am really very busy with other things right now), I hasn't been fixed yet. The problem you are having with MultiDesk is not likely to result from a bug in the concordance program. Communication between SpiritEd and the concordance program follows standard Atari protocol and works flawlessly with all versions of TOS including MultiTOS. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 187 Sat May 01, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 00:55 EDT oops. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 188 Sat May 01, 1993 R.AVERYT2 [Mr. Ron] at 19:52 EDT Don Clifton, Please send me the current price list/ordering info. Thanks, - Mr. Ron ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 189 Wed May 12, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 07:53 EDT Yep, Don. The PD disk had Concordance 2.202 and the utility folder with contents only. No text. I'd be willing to mail the PD Watch columnist a disk with, say, the KJV gospels and suggest they put it out again, if that's OK. I don't know how much space that would take on a disk. Do you have any comments or suggestions? Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 190 Fri May 14, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 00:06 EDT Just want to thank the author again. I am using Concordance with the Greek module to help study for the `guess where this Greek verse came from' section of my Acts and Paul final, and it is very helpful to be able to parallel the Greek with the KJV as an interlinear, and immediately look at the parsing and UBS lexicon's translation! Also I was talking to another student, and he had Gramcord on his PC when he took Greek, and found it very helpful in helping him learn Greek. So if any of you want to learn the original Greek, this program is a very helpful one to have. (e-mail me and I'll tell you what books would be helpful if you wish to engage upon this rewarding task) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 191 Fri May 14, 1993 D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton] at 22:27 EDT For those who are wondering what Ken is talking about, it relates to a conversation that started in the mail and has just now appeared here. It has to do with the earlier distribution of the concordance program by ST Informer on one of their public domain disks. The disk did not include any text files! This made distribution of the program rather useless. (This conversation will now be taken back to the email level.) --------------------- Does anyone out there the "Study Notes" feature? "Study Notes" has been available for almost a year, and I just found out last night that it has a rather significant bug. Either nobody is using it, or people are simply not taking the time to report problems. This really worries me, because I depend on our users to report bugs when they find them. Don't assume that we already know about them! Please report any problems you find, whether large or small. The solution to the problem is to repair SpiritEd and to create a program that will repair existing .NTS files. I am in the process of doing this now. If use "Study Notes" and need these fixes, please let me know. ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 192 Sat May 15, 1993 L.DOWDLE1 [Scott Dowdle] at 03:24 EDT D.CLIFTON4 [Don Clifton], > Does anyone out there the "Study Notes" feature? I have had Study Notes turned on and watched the different book notes load in and the window scroll as the text window did... BUT I've never actually typed in any notes as of yet. I have had a few files go bad on my previous hard disk, but files were always going bad on it so I didn't pay much attention to it... and it probably had nothing to do with that bug, eh? > This really worries me, because I depend on our users to report > bugs when they find them. Don't assume that we already know about > them! Please report any problems you find, whether large or small. Well, you know that I report bugs when I find them... no matter how small. [grin] TYL, Scott ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 193 Sat May 15, 1993 K.VANDELLEN [Ken Van] at 08:24 EDT Sorry for the confusion. I guess I forgot where Don and I were conversing, and I must have thought it was here. I haven't actually used the Study Notes, yet, but expect to eventually. It looks like a very useful feature. I'll probably catch the fix on the next update, unless there's a patch or something. Ken Van Dellen d8^) ------------ Category 2, Topic 27 Message 194 Sat May 15, 1993 S.SCHAPER [Meneldil] at 13:31 EDT Don, Before I purchased 3.0, I did play around with the study notes, and it bombed or something. But I thought that it was either SpiritEd, back when it was still a little off, or else I didn't know how to use it. Now with 3.0, I haven't used that feature yet. ------------