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The system will prompt you for your information. ========================================================================== ************ Topic 36 Thu Aug 12, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 02:57 EDT Sub: Imagecopy 2 This topic is for discussion and support of Imagecopy 2, the Essential Image Utility for Atari Computers. 205 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 1 Thu Aug 12, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 02:57 EDT For immediate release CodeHeadQuarters Wednesday, August 11, 1993 -------------------------- ................................................. : : : CodeHead Software announces Imagecopy 2 : : : : The Essential : : Image Utility : : for Atari Computers : : : :...............................................: CodeHead Technologies is proud to bring Imagecopy 2 to North America. This amazing utility was written by Jeremy Hughes for ST Club in England. As with other products imported by CodeHead, Imagecopy 2 meets the high standard of excellence which CodeHead requires of its products. -------------- Feature List -------------- o Copy images from the screen in any ST, TT, or Falcon video mode. Images can be copied by pressing Alt-Help, and a flexible rubber-banding system allows images to be selected with a fine degree of accuracy. Imagecopy 2 works with standard and large screens including virtual large screens. o Convert images to different formats. Imagecopy 2 reads and writes images in a wide range of formats, including Art Director, Degas, GIF, IFF, IMG, extended IMG, MacPaint, Neochrome, OS/2 bitmap, PC Paintbrush (PCX), RSC free image, Spectrum, Targa, TIFF, Tiny, and Windows bitmap. o View images in any ST, TT, or Falcon video mode. Color-mapping and dithering are used to display images in video modes which contain fewer colors. Up to six images may be displayed simultaneously in GEM-window or full-screen display modes. o Print images and screen dumps in color or black and white on a wide ranges of printers, including 9-pin and 24-pin dot-matrix printers, Bubblejet printers, Deskjet and Laserjet printers. (Atari Laser printer is not yet implemented.) Imagecopy 2 can print true-color images containing over sixteen million colors, and offers print scaling, comprehensive color controls, and a choice of halftone screens. o User-friendly GEM interface, including window menu, pop-up menus, and color sliders. Can be used as an accessory or stand-alone program. -------------- Availability -------------- Imagecopy 2 is available now -- we have them in stock today, ready to ship. Suggested retail price is $39.95. For more information, contact your local dealer, or: CodeHead Software PO Box 74090 Los Angeles, CA 90004 Tel (213) 386-5735 Fax (213) 386-5789 BBS (213) 461-2095 ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 2 Thu Aug 12, 1993 GRMEYER [Gordon/Sysop] at 21:13 EDT Congrats on getting the rights to this program! The current (August, I think) ST Format gives this program a very good review. Looks like it'll fit into the CodeHead suite very nicely. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 3 Thu Aug 12, 1993 JOHN.KING.T [JOHN KING T] at 21:58 EDT WoW!!! Another fine CodeHead product... JKT ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 4 Fri Aug 13, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:01 EDT JKT, Glad you stopped by John. We're donating a copy of Imagecopy 2 as a door prize at the Glendale show. And, in case you were about to ask, no, it doesn't require GDOS. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 5 Fri Aug 13, 1993 CBARRON at 02:35 EDT Couple of quick questions, does it load pnt files? Can it convert color images to monochrome. [ Resolution independent - not ST HI]? Looks very interesting if it can do these and fairly well. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 6 Fri Aug 13, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 04:57 EDT Carl, Imagecopy 2 can load color images when in a monochrome resolution. You can then save them as IMG files. I'm not sure what happens when you save an IMG file while in a color resolution. I think it may save it as a color IMG file. It doesn't load PNT files. I guess they don't know what those are over there (UK) yet. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 7 Fri Aug 13, 1993 ST.LOU [Lou] at 09:10 EDT Yes, well done! ST Applications had a very favorable review in the last few months. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 8 Fri Aug 13, 1993 JOHN.KING.T [JOHN KING T] at 21:58 EDT Tomas, hehehehehe JKT ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 9 Sat Aug 14, 1993 B.BEAUCHEA [Bob Beauchea] at 19:04 EDT Will it print color graphics to an HP550C in color? Bob Beauchea ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 10 Sat Aug 14, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 23:58 EDT Bob, We don't have a 550C to test, but the Imagecopy 2 manual mentions the 500C and 550C printers directly. Apparently, you select the DeskJet driver and choose between CMY and CMYK for color output in a single pass through the printer. Color separation is available for regular DJ users. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 11 Mon Aug 16, 1993 R.HELSEL [Scott] at 00:45 EDT Is there a demo version avaliable. I think several people in our user group might be interested in looking at Imagecopy 2. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 12 Mon Aug 16, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 04:07 EDT Scott, Thanks for reminding me. I meant to ask ST Club if they have a demo version, but forgot to. I don't know. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 13 Mon Aug 16, 1993 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 08:20 EST John, Sounds like Imagecopy 2's a winner. I'll call Toad and place an order for it. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 14 Tue Aug 17, 1993 R.HELSEL [Scott] at 23:33 EDT John, >I meant to ask the ST Club if they have a demo version but forgot to. Thanks for asking. If they do have a demo of Imagecopy 2 I'll see if I can get it on next month's disk of the month! The more folks that see a new product the better. Scott ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 15 Wed Aug 18, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 02:42 EDT Considering the very nature of the program, perhaps a few screenshots made with Imagecopy 2 would give you a good idea of what to expect. I believe it is even possible to capture IC2's printer output to a file for uploading. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 16 Thu Aug 19, 1993 B.AEIN [B Man] at 00:15 EDT Can IC2 print a 24bit Gif to a HP 500c in full color even though it can't be displayed as such on screen(STE)? How slow is printing a 24bit to a DJ 500c? Bman ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 17 Fri Aug 20, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 06:17 EDT I've discovered that the press release for Imagecopy 2 is misleading and I need to correct it. The following paragraph was taken from the back page of the manual: Convert images to different formats. Imagecopy 2 reads and writes images in a wide range of formats, including Art Director, Degas, GIF, IFF, IMG, extended IMG, MacPaint, Neochrome, OS/2 bitmap, PC Paintbrush (PCX), RSC free image, Spectrum, Targa, TIFF, Tiny, and Windows bitmap. While its true that Imagecopy 2 reads _OR_ writes all of those formats, it will not _write_ all of the formats. The formats in which Imagecopy 2 will save a file are: Degas compressed/uncompressed, IMG, extended IMG, RSC free image, Targa compressed/uncompressed, and TIFF compressed/uncompressed. I'm sorry if anyone was misled by this. It was not our intention to be deceptive. B Man, I'm sorry, but I don't know the answer to your question. We don't have an HP 500c printer. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 18 Fri Aug 20, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:51 EDT Will Imagecopy 2 read a Targa file and convert it to DEGAS using dithering and such? That would be neat. Would anyone venture to compare Imagecopy to Gemview. I have neither of these but think that I will need this type of utility at one point. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 19 Sat Aug 21, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 06:14 EDT John, I tested Imagecopy2 on the Cyrel card and it kind of doesn't work.:- ) The program functions properly but the images are scrambled, a common problem though. You might suggest they use the VDI transform functions when saving/displaying or have an option for it. It also failed to recoginize the True Color res. It reported it as having 0 colors and crashed. I also couldn't find anything else that would load the compressed TIF files on the disk. The manual mentioned SL having problems with them but GEMview wouldn't recognize it either. The uncompressed files work great though! Just so I don't do all complaining/suggesting.:-) The program works great in the normal Atari res's! It's nice to be able to use ALT+HELP to capture screen shots whenever you wish. Haven't tried the Falcon yet but the TT works well! I'll post more after I get some time to test it out further. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 20 Sat Aug 21, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 18:54 EDT See Flat, Yes, Imagecopy 2 should be able to do what you asked. Joey, Thanks for the report. I've written down your comments about the Cyrel card to pass them along to ST Club. They're working on a 2.5 version and might like to know about these problems. I assume you're talking about the TIF files in the PHOTO folder on the second disk. They load fine on the PC versions of PhotoStyler and Corel Draw 3.0. Strangely enough, Corel's Photo-Paint program loads them but doesn't give the correct palette, except for TISSNGTN.TIF. The only TIF loader I have on the Atari is Touchup and it doesn't load color TIFs. The fact that these files load OK on the PC would seem to indicate that their format is OK and programs that can't load them are not quite fully TIF- compatible. John P.S. TISSNGTN.TIF was corrupted on the distribution disk that I had and Imagecopy couldn't even load it, but it was OK on an earlier beta copy. Was it damaged on your copy? ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 21 Sun Aug 22, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 02:05 EDT John, I've got the doc's on the TIF format and I can see why no program is fully compatible.:-) I tried the compressed TIF files in Cranach Studio, SL, GEMview and True Paint. None of them like it. True Paint loads a white block, Cranach says unsupported format, SL loads garbage and GEMview says damaged format and loads it as a HEX file. The uncompressed format loads into GEMview but not Cranach or True Paint, I forgot to try SL again. BTW I was just grabbing the screen and loading it back in, it wasn't just the images on the disk. Haven't had a chance to try it on the Falcon yet. My TISSNGTN.TIF image appeasr to be OK. I didn't get to check it out in True Color though, just 256 TT LOW. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 22 Tue Aug 31, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 03:45 EDT John, I finally downloaded the latest version of GEmview and it loads the TIF files fine! It did report an error in ones X and Y resolutions values but it still loaded it. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 23 Sun Sep 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 16:06 EDT 'Heads, Thanks for sending ImageCopy 2. It was put to use immediately to create TIFs of cropped screen shots for a manual I hope you'll all be reading soon. :) BTW, IMGCOPY2 works very well under Geneva. I like the 20 windows! Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 24 Mon Sep 13, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 18:40 EDT Will there be any sort of show specials on Imagecopy 2 and if so, will GEnie users who can't afford to go to California be able to benefit? ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 25 Mon Sep 13, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:22 EDT See Flat, Our margin on Imagecopy 2 is not very large. If we lower the price for the show, it will probably be to $35. We try not to undercut the dealers, and you can probably get if for $35 or less from a dealer. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 26 Mon Sep 13, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 22:00 EDT John E, I was just asking:-) I've sometimes goten deals when I least expectied it just because I asked so it's now a habit to ask before I place an order! Will be leaving you E-Mail shortly. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 27 Tue Sep 14, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:16 EDT Flat, IMGCOPY2 is only $40 as it is. It's a steal. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 28 Wed Sep 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:32 EDT John, I'm baffled by Imagecopy's behavior in one way. It reads many non-Atari formats fine, as stated in the manual. But the manual says Imagecopy can save to these formats, too -- and yet the menu items offer only TIFF, IMG and Degas. What am I missing? Is is possible that the copy you sent is not the latest? It's 2.01, dated 16th May 1993. Or is there a way to force different save options? I sure do like this software, but one reason I bought it was to be able to create graphics on my TT that could be saved as PCXes and BMPs for my use in training on Windows PCs. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 29 Wed Sep 15, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 23:30 EDT Al, Where does the manual say that it saves in PCX and BMP formats? Page sixteen lists the formats available for saving. They are: Degas Degas (compressed) IMG IMG (extended) RSC free image Targa (uncompressed Targa (RLE compressed) TIFF (uncompressed) TIFF (RLE compressed) ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 30 Thu Sep 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:36 EDT Tomas, The back cover of the manual: Art Director, Degas, Gif, Iff, Img, extended Img, macPaint, Neo, OS/2 bmp, PCX, RSC, Spectrum, targa, Tiff, Tiny, Windows bmp. p.45, p46, p47, p48, p49, p50, p51. That's just for starters .... :) I must have a new manual and an older program, maybe. Can I get an update? This is a puzzle. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 31 Thu Sep 16, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:23 EDT Al, You have the latest manual and the latest version. On page 45 the manual clearly states that the formats you can save to are marked with an asterisk. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 32 Thu Sep 16, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 17:17 EDT Al, As Tomas said, Appendix A includes an asterisk next to each format in which Imagecopy 2 can save. To save in Targa format, you must be in "true color" mode. A few weeks ago, I posted a message here apologizing for quoting the back cover of the manual in our press release without clarification. Due to my inexperience with the program, I hadn't realized how this paragraph is misleading: Imagecopy 2 reads and writes images in a wide range of formats, including [...a list of all formats supported]. Although that statement isn't blatantly false, it certainly is very misleading. You may have missed my message, or ordered Imagecopy 2 before I posted it. If you are dissatisfied with Imagecopy 2, let me know and you can return it for a refund. This is one of the areas covered by our suggestions to ST Club for version 2.5. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 33 Fri Sep 17, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 07:43 EDT Tomas, Boy, am I a confused puppy. Apparently Imagecopy will convert FROM these other formats but not save to them? The back cover of the manual is misleading. But I still wouldn't part with Imagecopy even under gunpoint. John, Yes, I jumped into Imagecopy before reading your message. It's not a big problem, and I'm glad you've asked them to add those features. BTW, under Geneva Imagecopy's PRG version works just like the ACC version, allowing you to do snapshots. It's a super app, no question about it. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 34 Sun Sep 26, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 13:24 EDT John, I've been using vers. 2.01 to generate some screen shots for a user group newsletter. There are some file incompatibilities with the files from Imagecopy and GEM- View 2.46 and Calamus SL. In the GEM-View topic today I offered to send Ralf a full description of the problem via snail mail. It would make a horrendously long post, since I spent most of a day on the problem. I do not know where the problem is. I'd be more than happy to send you the same info via snail mail if you would like to pass the info on to the programmer. Other than that, getting what I wanted from the prg. Thanks, Ken S. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 35 Sat Oct 30, 1993 T.HEBEL [Spud Boy] at 22:31 EDT Off Topic, Hi, Scott do you remember Me? Tim On Topic, Does anyone know how ImageCopy run on the Cyrel16-1280 card? ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 36 Sat Oct 30, 1993 BHARTSHORNE at 23:16 EDT John-I purpsoely drove to Toad Computers for a copy of Imagecopy and they stated they didn't have any because you were having difficulty getting copies. Can I order via email? Or did I get a correct quote from Toad? (I am not being nasty to toad here folks-I love their store-I am just trying to get a copy of the program!) Is Imagecopy Falcon compatable? Thanks for your help- by the way if I can order see email! Bill Hartshorne 8s ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 37 Sun Oct 31, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 01:09 EST Bill, It's not Toad's fault. Our last two shipments got returned to England and had to be resent. Imagecopy 2's have arrived after their long journey and we're filling backorders. Toad should see theirs by Friday or sooner. IC2 is Falcon compatable and of course you can order by email. Sorry for the inconvenience. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 38 Sun Oct 31, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:31 EST Spud Boy, It doesn't support the Sunrise Card so far.... Hopefully it will in the future! ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 39 Sun Oct 31, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:19 EST Spud, I do know that ImageCopy 2 has problems running at 1024X768X256 on the CDII card. The graphics I try to view are mangled. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 40 Tue Nov 02, 1993 M.SQUIRE [Mike] at 18:45 EST Tomas, >> ... we're filling backorders. Toad should see theirs by >> Friday or sooner. IC2 is Falcon compatable and of course >> you can order by email. I was not aware that one could order Codehead products by e-mail (other than Warp 9 upgrades). Would you care to elaborate on this? Thanks. ... Mike Squire ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 41 Tue Nov 02, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 21:01 EST Mike, We've always accepted orders through E-Mail. We charge full retail, though, out of respect for our dealers and as an enticement for people to support their local dealers. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 42 Wed Nov 03, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:38 EST Mike, Tomas is about the fastest order-filler I have ever come across. One day my disks arrived beforer I ordered them! (A true story, but I'll explain it another time...) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 43 Wed Nov 03, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:30 EST Thanks Al! John calls me Radar sometimes. Jeepers! ===Stealth Clerk=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 44 Wed Nov 03, 1993 BHARTSHORNE at 21:23 EST TOMAS-I fully understand, and I was in no way blaming Toad as I stated-but I have sometimes been told there were problems in "ordering" or "getting a shipment" as a "buzz off" and so I simply wanted to know if it were worth placing an order by email (Toad will tell you I support them fairly well! :>)) if I would have to wait anyway for the product. Did you get my email order? Did you have any copies left to ship me? Thanks, Bill Hartshorne ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 45 Thu Nov 04, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:22 EST Bill H., I didn't receive email at my address. Perhaps you sent it to John and I haven't seen it yet. Our second batch has arrived, we have plenty of Imagecopy 2's (for the moment.) ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 46 Thu Nov 04, 1993 DMJ [dmj] at 19:21 EST Al: That sounds like an interesting story. Sure you don't want to share it? -dmj ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 47 Thu Nov 04, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 22:36 EST Dmj, I was filling out the order form for ImageCopy 2 when the mail arrived with a packet from the 'Heads - containing ImageCopy 2! I'll explain more later. doncha love this mystery? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 48 Fri Nov 05, 1993 DMJ [dmj] at 00:32 EST Al: You just love teasing a captive audience. ;-) -dmj ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 49 Fri Nov 05, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:43 EST Dmj, I had almost finished filling out the form, and there was a kock on the door.... Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 50 Fri Nov 05, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:19 EST Al >...and there was a kock on the door... Hey, you misspelled rooster! ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 51 Fri Nov 05, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 11:46 EST Wow, a "kock" on the door! I hate it when that happens. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 52 Fri Nov 05, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:06 EST Al, you shouldn't speak of US mailpersons that way. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 53 Fri Nov 05, 1993 BHARTSHORNE at 22:01 EST TOMAS-sent the email to "Codehead" but jsut in case you didn't receive it I am reposting email to you. if John got the previous, try to remember I can only use one copy at a time...:>) Thanks, Bill ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 54 Sat Nov 06, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:54 EST Al? Hello? ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 55 Sat Nov 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:49 EST ARGH! I am reinstalling Spelling Sentry as of this momant. I kno I cin spel beter than thiz. Whoo sez it wuz a ruuster, anyweigh? It waz the ecks-meyer of Noo Yawk, Ed Roostah. Awl ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 56 Sat Nov 06, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 12:47 EST Bill, Aha. The "CODEHEAD" GEnie account is used by Charles. I haven't checked that mail for over a week. Charles is back now and will probably forward it to me. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 57 Sat Nov 06, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 13:17 EST OK, OK, so there was a _knock_ at the door...THEN what happened? ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 58 Sun Nov 07, 1993 BHARTSHORNE at 11:40 EST Tomas. I have placed another order in email for Imagecopy just in case Charles did not get the first one sent under "Codehead" IF he did pleas disregard this order. I really need the capture and printing capabilities of the program yesterday as they say for my graphics class so if you can send it by a faster method you have my blessing to do so. Thanks a lot, Bill Hartshorne ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 59 Sun Nov 07, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:56 EST Then I put down my pen, opened the door, and there was ... the guy next door asking if he could borrow the chain saw. BUT! Right up the driveway was the mailman, and he was delivering ... IMAGECOPY 2! Which is a heck of a lot different than a chain saw. (For one thing, the saw won't do 800X600X256, and it won't fit comfortably in the floppy drive.) OK, I'll relent. I had ordered ImageCopy 2 by e-mail and the 'Heads were having a hard time finding my message, so I was filling out an order to send by regular mail when ... Arf! Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 60 Sun Nov 07, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 14:51 EST Bill, Have no fear. You didn't mention the urgency in your Email but I'll tack it on and get right on it. Though I have a reputation for getting it there "yesterday" I find the pressure to do so exceeds my recommended stress level. Al, Arf? The dog bit the mailman? ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 61 Tue Nov 09, 1993 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 18:03 EST Toad recieved there shipment of ImageCopy 2 today. But It sounded like they didn't have that many or wish they had more. But I got mine on the way. :) ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 62 Tue Nov 09, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 21:32 EST Rogo, Right, they only ordered ten copies, and those were so late in arriving they're probably nearly sold out already. You're gonna love IC2. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 63 Tue Nov 09, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:12 EST Tomas, IC2 doesn't like my hi-res modes. Do you know if anyone has reported luck in getting IC2 to work OK past 640X480 in color displays? Maybe I'm not using it properly, too. Seems to me it should work fine, no matter what the resolution. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 64 Wed Nov 10, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 05:27 EST Al, I don't know whether IC2 has been tested on the CD card. But, I'll try to find out what the programmer has in store for the next version. I think it was only a year ago that color (colour ) support was added. Maybe we need to get one of those Crazy things. Fits in a Mega, does it? Does it know about Line A? ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 65 Wed Nov 10, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 06:13 EST Al, I think I've used Imagecopy 2 in ~800x~600 on the Falcon with no problem. I may have tried it in 1280x756, too. Do you have a Line A emulator for that thing? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 66 Wed Nov 10, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 06:28 EST Tomas, Wow, sometimes when I read your messages, I think I'm reading my own. Where'd you pull that "Line A" thing from? Do I rant and rave about it that much? John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 67 Wed Nov 10, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:25 EST John, Um, yes you do. And it only gets worse when the winds blow. You wanna know how much I've learned in two years hangin' out with you? Way. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 68 Thu Nov 11, 1993 DMJ [dmj] at 01:01 EST Geez, I only wish I could hang out with guys like the CodeHeads. I could probably learn more from their [objectionable term deleted] than I can learn from most people's patient lecturing. (That's a compliment, guys! ;-) Last time I asked Dan Wilga about Crazy Dots and Line-A, he said use the VDI. I think it uses pixel-packed graphics (like the PC) rather than bitplane format. But I'm probably wrong... -dmj ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 69 Thu Nov 11, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 21:57 EST There are varying levels of Line A support. The type of Line A support that we expect is usually just that the variables be set correctly (horizontal resolution, vertical resolution, bytes per line, number of planes). If the programmers of video drivers can't ensure that these variables are set correctly, they have no business writing them. Too many programs rely on this information to be correct, and these variables are documented by Atari. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 70 Thu Nov 11, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:28 EST Tomas, Mega (megabus), and Mega STe and TT (VME bus). Here's an excerpt from the blurb (which fails to mention that the card uses the Tseng ET/4000 chip, a very fast accelerated video processor): Crazy Dots II has the following capabilities: o Programmable screen resolutions up to 1,664 x 1,200. o True-Color display capability (giving you up to 16.7 million colors to choose from!). o Virtual display support (display a resolution higher than the physical screen resolution) with hardware panning (no software slowdown). Crazy Dots II also offers the following advantages: o Optional, 24 bit color, accelerated "NVDI" based screen driver, which gives you a SUBSTANTIALLY faster display than any other video card. o Uses any standard VGA monitor (the better the monitor, the higher the maximum resolution that you can display). o Internal expansion slot with its own output socket for future upgrades. o English language software with an English (written by us) manual. o 1 Megabyte of Video RAM. The Crazy Dots II is a custom card, specifically designed to fit right into your Atari's expansion slot. Two versions are available: o MegaBus For the Classic MegaST, includes a "pass-through" for the optional math co-processor. o VME For the MegaSTE and TT/030 models. I'm not sure about the Line A part. The English manual doesn't mention Line A. I'm still plowing along through the German docs. Aal ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 71 Fri Nov 12, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:32 EST John, The Cyrel card has Line A support and Imagecopy doesn't work on it. The program seems to assume the screen memory is in an Atari format. The AlberTT card is the only one I know of that works that way. I know the Matrix and the Cyrel both require you to transform the screen before saving it otherwise you get junk. It's also important in paletted formats to change the VDI Order of colors to Register order or the palette will be incorrect as well. I know XIMG stores it's VDI colors according to the Registers. Most cards have there VDI/Register colors in order from 0 to 255 but Atari's VDI and Regsiters don't exactly match.:-) It's rather confusing actually... ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 72 Fri Nov 12, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 09:34 EST I checked again and, yes, Crazy Dots supports Line A without a problem. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 73 Fri Nov 12, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 10:10 EST Any video card which does not organize its screen data in the standard, Atari interleaved manner will not work with Warp 9. And to make it do so would require major rewriting of the code. As to why Imagecopy doesn't work, I'm surprised but I guess it must be drawing directly to the screen. Perhaps that's why it's so fast. Deciding who's "wrong" on this issue is a philosophical issue. In my opinion, nobody's wrong. Each company has to decide the relative importance of compatibility with their product. Each company designs its product to be compatible with stock Atari computers. Heck, even MultiTOS is compatible with a stock Atari computer. But that doesn't mean all products are going to work together. Warp 9 makes assumptions about the organization of the screen video. It assumes it will be organized as it is in Atari's documentation. If a video card developer makes a decision to change that organization to fit his own needs, he should be prepared for a lot of compatibility problems. I'm sure there must have been some rather compelling reasons that they decided to go against the grain like this (maybe the card is actually for a PC), but there's also a responsibility on their part (IMHO) to provide their customers solutions to the problems they create. (Please note that I'm not implying that the developers of these cards have said anything one way or the other -- I don't know). John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 74 Fri Nov 12, 1993 B.SALDANA1 [BOB S] at 10:33 EST John - I like speed, anything slower puts me to sleep. Bob S ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 75 Sat Nov 13, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:01 EST John, Good point about the compatibility. The Crazy Dots II card isn't a PC card used in a TT, and the video modes that can be created take into account a lot of different ways that programs for the Atari are written. What is happening is that I am facing two discoveries at the same time - which applications work in modes that contain more than 16 colors, and which applications work in very high resolution. And, of course, which work when those two are combined. I probably seem to be picking on ImageCopy II and Calligrapher, but that's only because I use them so much. It's a compliment; if I have problems with lesser software, I just stop using it. But I'm not about to cut down on my use of Cal, for example, just because it won't work in certain graphics modes. (It does fine in 800X600X2, and that's ideal anyway.) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 76 Sat Nov 13, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 04:38 EST John, The card makers don't have to worry about the card as Atari's VDI and the VDI drivers provided have the proper commands for handling any screen resolution. I think your right in not altering Warp9, it would be a major pain and probably only a few people would benefit. Imagecopy on the other hand just needs to use the VDI transform when saving and loading. It wouldn't be hard to fix and it would probably work correctly on all the cards. It's a pain to figure out though. It's one of those things thats simple once you know how. BTW, I'm not blaming anyone. I never have figured out the ALT+HELP thing myself.:-) Just take it as a suggestion.:-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 77 Sat Nov 13, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 12:40 EST Joey, You mean you _STILL_ haven't figured out the ALT-HELP thing? Shame on you!!!! Ken S. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 78 Sat Nov 13, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 18:55 EST Joey, I guess you don't want to hear how Imagecopy 2 adds two more Alt Help-like commands, eh? ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 79 Sat Nov 13, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 20:50 EST Tomas, I have Imagecopy 2, too.:-) It's a very good Screen Grabber! It's ALT-HELP settings are rather neat. I was under impression you needed an Auto Folder program to use the ALT-HELP combo but this program has given me new hope.:-) Ken, Why I ought'a... :-) I now have assembly so all I have to do is figure out how to use.:-) I know it's possible to use the ALT-HELP combo though, which always helps! ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 80 Fri Dec 03, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:24 EST I received Image copy 2 this week. Unfortunatly, it does not seem to run properly on my NOVA card. Any Nova users out there? It runs ok, loads files, but the color map is ....how should I say......perturbed would be a good word. This makes pictures look a little bit like a pshycadelic snow storm. John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 81 Fri Dec 03, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 23:51 EST See Flat, Thanks for the report. Yes, we know about that problem with video cards which use an alternate screen layout. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 82 Sat Dec 04, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:01 EST John B., Similar incompatibilties exist with the Crazy Dots board. If the author, Jeremy Hughes, could get his hands on these boards the problems could be addressed. ST Club's Paul Glover tells me that their attempts to get ahold of a Crazy Dots for testing have been futile. Are these cards selling so well that they can't make enough? ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 83 Sat Dec 04, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 04:08 EST It's too bad, It' seems to be a really nice utility. I'll keep it to use on my regular 1040. I think the manual was worth the price for me. I've just glanced at it but there is a lot of useful information concerning picture formats. (this is my be positive mode ;-) John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 84 Sat Dec 04, 1993 DMJ [dmj] at 11:13 EST Tomas, I believe the Crazy Dots (I & II) cards use a pixel-packed format... one byte per pixel in 256 color modes, 2 bytes per pixel in 32K color modes. In 32K, the words are Intel order, I think. If IC2 is doing direct screen writes (faster, but not as compatible) then that sort of info is vital... even so, having the hardware to test your code on is _very_ useful! -dmj ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 85 Sat Dec 04, 1993 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 18:36 EST Tomas, On the Crazy Dots, Nova, Matrix and Cyrell cards 256 color mode is pixel packed as DMJ states, one byte per pixel. Note however that the VDI palette -> hardware register palette ordering differs among various cards (as does the Falcon from the TT) so it is the application's job to determine this LUT using vs_color() and vq_color(). If the application writes into an offscreen device independent bitmap and then converts it with vr_trnfm() that will work in ANY paletted resolution without having to know the format. In 32K color mode on the Crazy Dots and Nova it is as DMJ states, 2 bytes per pixel in order, with each pixel stored in Intel format (byte swapped) of XRRRRRGG|GGGBBBBB . However when you reach 16, 24 or 32 bitplanes anything can go and vr_trnfm() doesn't work properly (or at least as desired) so the application really should determine the pixel format on its own. If your authors need information on how to do that send me e-mail. John Stanford ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 86 Sat Dec 04, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:44 EST John B., ImageCopy 2 does not run properly in the extended modes of the Crazy Dots II card, either. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 87 Sat Dec 04, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:11 EST Tomas, TKR is a going concern in Germany, and surely should be able to supply a loaner card to ST Club. Have you asked Dan Wilga if he can put a good word in to TKR the next time he talks to them? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 88 Sun Dec 05, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 02:51 EST dmj, John B., John S. and Al, Thanks for all the information folks. It can only help. We can send this stuff off to ST Club and hope for the best. I'll try a little networking with the suppliers and see what happens. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 89 Sun Dec 05, 1993 B.SALDANA1 [BOB S] at 14:14 EST ===Tomas=== My ImageCopy Colour manual says that future enhancements might include drivers that would be available in any program. They supply the quickest drivers on the Atari platform. They probably are working on the Bj-600 colour driver now. They also used the resolution to change the size of the picture in ImCpy Colour but in ImageCopy 2 they were gonna change that. Could you post all the features in the latest so I can compare. I tried to find it at TCN and MidCities but they were out of stock. Bob S ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 90 Sun Dec 05, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 15:53 EST >A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 18:44 EST > >John B., > >ImageCopy 2 does not run properly in the extended modes of the Crazy Dots II >card, either. Do you mean it runs ok if you use 16, 4, or 2 colors on the CD ? It doesn't run at all in any configuration on my NOVA. John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 91 Mon Dec 06, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 04:34 EST Bob S, The new features list is over a page long and I'm a very slow typist. Perhaps someone with quick fingers could help me out by paraphrasing pages 58 and 59 of the Imagecopy 2 manual real quick? It is an impressive list. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 92 Mon Dec 06, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:06 EST John B., Umm, I'll recheck how IM2 runs in the other modes and get back to you. I've forgotten. (Gulp!) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 93 Tue Dec 07, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:24 EST Ark! Scan those manual pages into some sort of electronic form! My fingers are sore, too. :) Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 94 Tue Dec 07, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:34 EST Ark? Copywrite laws, lack of OCR software. I'll work on a list of the new features when I get a chance. I really, really can't type. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 95 Tue Dec 07, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 22:25 EST As requested: The following features are new in Imagecopy 2.0: Full Falcon and TT support; images can be copied and displayed in any ST/TT/Falcon video mode (monochrome to true-color). Color-mapping and color-dithering is used to display images in video modes which contain fewer colors. Random or ordered dithering can be used to display color pictures on monochhrome screens. 256-color and true-color printing; Imagecopy 2 will print images up to sixteen million colors (24-bit true color). Print scaling; Imagecopy 2 can scale images to any size (up to full page size). Variable sized halftone matrixes (up to 16 x 16) for realistic color depth. New image formats: 1) read/write: TIFF, TARGA, extended IMG (XIMG), TT resolution Degas; 2) read only: GIF, Spectrum, IFF/Deluxe Paint, Windows bitmap, OS/2 bitmap, PC Pintbrus (PCX), MacPaint. New user interface, with window menu bar and system information in menu window. New color controls: color saturation, RGB/CMY/CMYK adjustment, RGB order. A 'print to IMG file' option allows full-color separations to be laded into monochrome DTP programs. A 'match palette' option rearranges an image palette so that it matches the current screen palette. Up to 20 images (under MultiTOS) or 6 images (under other versions of TOS) can be displayed on screen at the same time. A 'set windows' option allows images to be arranged automatically on screen. Images can be copied directly from screen without needing additional memory buffers. There is an option to reinstall Alt-Help routines. The 'image information' dialog contains more information. More efficient IMG/Degas compression. Dialog option to display and edit the size of an image which is being copied from screen. Eject page options. Invert image option. Close all windows option. ==================================================================== The following options were added in Imagecopy 1.5 (Imagecopy Colour) Color printing and color separations. Color adjustment controls for screen and printer. New print resolutions. The 'print options' dialog is displayed before images are printed. New keyboard shortcuts. Pop-up dialog menus. The default screen palette is restored before dialog boxes are displayed. Direct print mode works with TTs and other 38030 machines. Improved version of IMGC.PRG. ================================================================== Also, I heard a rumor today that ST Club was able to secure a Crazy Dots card for testing. I think I wanna party. C'mon Al, I'm buyin'! ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 96 Wed Dec 08, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:13 EST I checked, and Imagecopy 2 does not, alas, work at all under the CDII card. Luckily, we still have an ST here, so I can keep using it on the ST. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 97 Thu Dec 09, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 05:47 EST Works great on my ST too Al. Thanks for checking. I was jealous. ;-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 98 Fri Dec 10, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:11 EST Hi folks, John and I had a great time today with a new toy at the office, a Hewlett Packard DeskJet 550C. The funny thing is, we hooked up the printer to a parallel device that is able to receive from a 386 Windows machine and a Mega ST and feed the printer as needed. So, we had a little OS contest. John has the supplied Windows 550C drivers in his hand, Tomas is equipped with a fresh copy of Imagecopy 2. Who will be the first to produce color output? Heh, heh. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 99 Sat Dec 11, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 00:43 EST No bet. Even money. Hey, Maybe I'll see it tomorrow night? ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 100 Sat Dec 11, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 12:55 EST Oh Ken, you lose, buddy. I won by about 15 minutes. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 101 Sat Dec 11, 1993 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 13:43 EST I have a DJ500 and really like it. I'd love to get a DJ550C one of these days. The output is very nice for an inkjet. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 102 Sat Dec 11, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 13:44 EST Rats! ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 103 Sat Dec 11, 1993 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 17:41 EST Tomas and the Atari won the race to print color to the 550C. But in all fairness, the Windows machine is now set to print to the 550C from any Windows program without further configuring. The Calendar Creator output is fabulous. Kenne, If you're talking about our Christmas party, please don't show up tomorrow night. It's next Sunday, the 19th. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 104 Sat Dec 11, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 21:06 EST As sson as I type "tomorrow" I suspected I was wrong. It's been one week that just seemed like it lasted two weeks. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 105 Sun Dec 12, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 01:28 EST John, I just wanted to demonstrate how easily Imagecopy 2 handled the job. Of course it wasn't a fair contest, your Windows machine won't run Imagecopy at all! ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 106 Sun Dec 12, 1993 K.ESTES [Kenne@SFRT] at 02:11 EST snarf ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 107 Sun Dec 12, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 19:48 EST I don't know why, but Imagecopy 2 is now running on my NOVA card. Dont' ask me why since I don't know. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 108 Tue Dec 14, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 14:49 EST Al, If you have the chance to test this on your Crazy Dots. ImageCopy 2 runs on my NOVA when I am in 16 bit 32K mode. The resolution doesn't matter. When I switch to 2,16,or256 color I'm back to the psychadelic snowstorm. In the 32k mode I can load images. The pallette is not correct though, but the images can be recognized. I dont' know how viewing programs make sense of pallettes. Gem-View seems to do this ok. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 109 Tue Dec 14, 1993 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 23:41 EST John, There's no palette in a 32K color image, the two bytes for each pixel contains its actual color settings. ImageCopy 2 appears to automatically assume that the screen layout is in Falcon format. Neither the Crazy Dots nor the Nova uses this format, and this is why the colors arent right. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 110 Wed Dec 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:30 EST John B! How did you get IC2 to run on your Nova card?? You have given me hope! Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 111 Wed Dec 15, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:28 EST Ah, John B., I've tried that mode with the CDII without luck. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 112 Wed Dec 15, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:27 EST Al, Take heart, Dr. G., Jeremy has his hands on a Crazy Dots now and we should see an update soon. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 113 Thu Dec 16, 1993 REALM [Joey] at 05:23 EST Yeah!! Hoepfully it'll work on the Cyrel as well! ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 114 Thu Dec 16, 1993 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 05:34 EST Al, but as I've said, I can see the images but the colors are still off. Tomas, Do you think the CD II fix will also rectify the abnormalities on the NOVA ? ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 115 Thu Dec 16, 1993 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:44 EST Tomas, Great news! CDII heaven! Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 116 Thu Dec 16, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:20 EST Joey and John B., Time will tell. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 117 Sat Dec 18, 1993 P.NEREO [Philip] at 19:58 EST Does Imagecopy support the SLM 804 and Moniterm monitors? ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 118 Sun Dec 19, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 01:22 EST Philip, FaST Club (as they now call themselves) is planning to implement the SLM 804 option in the next release. No word yet on when that will be. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 119 Sun Dec 19, 1993 B.SALDANA1 [BOB S] at 11:27 EST ===Tomas=== Can you see if you can get their Textstyle prg inported? Eventually Jeremey wants to have it work with Speedo! Bob S ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 120 Sun Dec 19, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 20:41 EST Bob S., Certainly, I like Jeremy's work too. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 121 Sun Dec 19, 1993 B.SALDANA1 [BOB S] at 22:29 EST ===Tomas=== Thanks, let me know when you get a copy of Typestyler and ImageCopy2 in so I can order them or drop them off at TCN for me they haven't had IC2 for weeks nor Midcities. Bob S ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 122 Sun Dec 19, 1993 R.BEATTY3 [Buffalo Bob] at 22:52 EST Philip, IC2 will tease you with a greyed-out SLM choice under the printer selection dialog. It is in the works, apparently, but the SLM is not supported in the current version. I could only guess on the moniterm question, though it does work (at least for displaying files) on my TTM195. Buffalo Bob ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 123 Mon Dec 20, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 04:17 EST Bob S., Is it Textstyle or Typestyler? There are no current plans to carry the program so please don't hold off on picking up IC2. It could be a long wait. We must have underestimated the popularity of this little utility. I have a new batch of Imagecopy 2's now and another shipment on the way. You should see it on the shelves after Christmas. You can also order IC2 online by sending E- mail to J.EIDSVOOG1. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 124 Mon Dec 20, 1993 B.SALDANA1 [BOB S] at 21:45 EST ===Tomas=== Where are are converting your money for payments to them. FaST Club doesn't take credit cards. Or do you just give them a check. I would appreciate if you could have them include a copy of Typestyler(or whatever he calls his prg in St Applications)in an order for me as calls to England are $expen$ive$ and I could pay you. You guys are cheap! Ah, I mean cheaper. Bob S ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 125 Tue Dec 21, 1993 MUSE [Tomas] at 01:18 EST Bob S., I don't yet have any idea what program you are talking about. I will ask and look into the *possibility* of bringing more of FaST Club's products in under the CodeHead banner. I cannot, however, place a private order for you. I hope you understand. Let's talk about Imagecopy 2 here, Okay? ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 126 Wed Dec 22, 1993 K.SPRINGER1 [FROZEN NORTH] at 00:42 EST Tomas, I have Imagecopy 2 and love it! That said...... Bob is talking about a program called Textstyle. Looks like it does something similar to the font styler prg that was included with Calligrapher 2. But apparently it saves out a TIFF or IMG file that can be imported to create headline effects. Uses GEM fonts or Calamus fonts. Apologies for the drift. Happy Holidays, everyone! Ken S. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 127 Fri Jan 07, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 21:01 EST John/Charles/Tomas, I know you'll be interested in hearing that Imagecopy *does* work with the Crazy Dots II card, in its 15-bit mode and in its monochrome mode. I had confined my trials with IC2 to the 16- and 256-color modes before, and had never thought of trying it out in either monochrome or the 32K-color mode until today. The images it saves in 15-bit mode are non-standard in some minor way; they are rejected by the other graphics apps I have that can handle 15- bit or greater color planes. But capturing a screen in 15-bit mode and viewing the TIF of that capture are not problems at all. (And in monochrome, Imagecopy behaves perfectly normally, as it should.) Please pass this along to Jeremy, with my repeated thanks for an already excellent program. All he apparently needs to do is to get the 15-bit mode standardized, and find out what is preventing Imagecopy from working properly in 8-bit mode. I've uploaded some samples of 15-bit TIFs captured by Imagecopy. I found that Imagecopy loads and displays these TIFs (which are exact replicates of their JPEG originals) in the range of five to seven times faster than even the fastest JPEG viewer on the TT, and as much as 30 times faster than the slow viewers. The TIFs I uploaded may or may not be specific to the Crazy Dots II card. I'd like to hear from anyone with a Nova or Sunrise card who also has Imagecopy 2 and can take a look at these TIFs to see if they display properly on other cards. (The Monet pictures are outstanding, by the way.) I'll be happy to provide more of these 15-bit TIFs if anyone wants some. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 128 Sat Jan 08, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 00:24 EST Al, Thanks very much for taking the time to post that information. Jeremy is reported to have a Crazy Dots for testing now. We are looking forward to bringing you more good news soon. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 129 Sat Jan 08, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 01:04 EST Al, I would guess it works because the 15bit is set up the same as the Falcon's. It's suppose to support the Falcon's True color modes I believe. How lucky for you!:-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 130 Sat Jan 08, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:58 EST Joey, Do you (or does anyone else) know if Imagecopy works in the Falcon's 15-bit mode? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 131 Sat Jan 08, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:48 EST Al, Yes, Imagecopy works in the Falcon's "true color" mode. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 132 Sat Jan 08, 1994 J.STANFORD2 [John] at 21:05 EST Al: I do know that the 15/16 bit mode of the Crazy Dots uses a different pixel format than the Falcon. It will be interesting to see if the files you saved view properly on the Falcon. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 133 Sat Jan 08, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 21:13 EST Al, I'll actually try it when I get a chance but I thought it was suppose to support all the Falcons modes? ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 134 Sun Jan 09, 1994 S.DEITZ [Steve] at 05:14 EST Al, I use IC2 on my Falcon in true color all the time. Works great! ----STEVE---- ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 135 Sun Jan 09, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 13:39 EST Thanks, John. That explains why it works in the CDII 15-bit mode, then. The more I use Imagecopy, the more impressed I am with the interface and the programming. BTW, the docs should be updated (or the readme file) to say that udner Geneva, you do not need to use the ACC version to be able to do screen captures via the alt-help method. Under G., the PRG version operates exactly the same as the ACC version. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 136 Mon Jan 10, 1994 R.NELSON48 [Grouch (:{] at 01:17 EST I just started using the new ColorBurst hand scanner from migraph. It saves out in TIFF, but Imagecopy doesn't recognize the TIF file. Wait, STyle doesn't recognize it either, and neither does TruePaint. Hmmmmm, must be a Migraph problem. Can anybody refer me to a migraph support topic other than TouchUP? (:{ Grouch. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 137 Mon Jan 10, 1994 S.DEITZ [Steve] at 05:06 EST Grouch, Those dams TIFFs again, huh? Have you tried Studio Photo and/or GEM-View? Do you know if they are compressed TIFFs? ----STEVE---- ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 138 Mon Jan 10, 1994 M.POCHE [Mick] at 05:26 EST Grouch - Perhaps GEM-View can convert your TIFF file into another format that Imagecopy will recognize? Just a thought. - Mick P.S. Why don't you start a new topic about this scanner of your? I'd like to know your impression of it so far. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 139 Mon Jan 10, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 20:29 EST Grouch, TIFF is not really a good format for moving files around, unless you know _for_certain_ that the program writing the TIFF and the program reading the TIFF like the same type of TIFF. There are somewhere between a bazillion and a gazillion ways to write a TIFF file... and most programs only "like" a few of them. Just because it's a TIFF doesn't mean every TIFF reader will read it. If you can save it in a different format, do so... -dmj ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 140 Tue Jan 11, 1994 R.THIEMAN [T-MAN] at 20:55 EST Hey Codeheads I was wrong when I registered Imagecopy II and stated that it didn't do much for us old ST owners. That was before I had tried the print options. I'm sure that the screen displays must look great on the TT's and Falcon monitors but the print capabilities for anyone with a DeskJet make it worthwhile for any Atari owner. Now if the Codehead genius could only be applied to put a couple of hooks in ImageCopyII for OutBurST!! to speed up that printing. BTW the same is true of PrintAll, a freeware DJ 500C program by Greg Wageman who lives in the San Francisco area. Some of the print times for GIF graphics run well over a half hour. Greg used to participate on Compuserve but I h avn't been able to raise him in over two months. I suspect he may have gone over to the dark DOS side!!! Regards Rich ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 141 Wed Jan 12, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:21 EST Rich, I remember your reg. card for Imagecopy 2 and I recall thinking you probably hadn't read the manual yet. If you are like me, you want to play first and use the manual for reference as you go. I'm happy you've discovered the printing features. Let me help you discover how to view images in ST resolutions. In the first place, Imagecopy 2 is always "thinking" in the resolution of the file loaded. The image that it puts on the screen is a representation of that image for the resolution you are in. Natually, if you are viewing 256 color GIFs, this looks just fabulous in the higher Falcon and TT resolutions. Probably the least desireable resolution for viewing graphics is ST Medium. Still, you can play with the controls and get very good results. I like to use IC2 in high rez. Be sure to go through that manual and read what it has to say about all the menu items, in particlar the stuff under the Options menu like Adjust colours and View options. That manual is _very_ good. As for speeding up the printing, Imagecopy 2 allows you to chose between Direct and Bios output to the printer. Would this feature help Outburst at all? Jeremy says the Direct option is faster. I believe Bios output must be used with CodeRAM. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 142 Thu Jan 13, 1994 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 20:55 EST >...BTW the same is true of PrintAll, a freeware DJ 500C program by >Greg Wageman who lives in the San Francisco area. Would someone please post the file number to this program, my file list is quite incomplete and I am having no luck finding it with a search. Thanks... === Joe Rogo === Thursday, January 13, 1994 8:53 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 143 Thu Jan 13, 1994 R.THIEMAN [T-MAN] at 23:41 EST Rogo The file is 27019 in the Printer Driver Library 20. Regards Rich ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 144 Fri Jan 14, 1994 J.ROGOZINSK2 [Rogo] at 19:25 EST Rich [T-MAN] Thanks for the prompt reply. === Joe Rogo === Friday, January 14, 1994 7:19 pm ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 145 Fri Jan 21, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 05:25 EST I've read just about everything about ImageCopy 2 that's available on GEnie, without seeing anything that I would use; in fact I just IGNored this Topic a few days ago - but now Al Fasoldt tells me ImageCopy 2 is "a must", so I must have missed something. Perhaps someone can fill me in? Here's the context: I work exclusively in TT High; for my newsletters and contract stuff (PageStream, usually Postscript) I use IMG, TIFF (occasionally for grayscales), EPS, CVG, GEM. I have Megapaint, Arabesque, Touch-Up, Avant Vector, and a couple of fractal generators that save in IMG format. I very rarely do screen dumps, but when I do, TTPRSAVE from Wizworks works fine. I have no use for GIF or any other screen (or color) graphics. So what do I need Imagecopy for? If this seems too specific and personal, blame it on Al. ;) Anyway I figured the CodeHeads wouldn't mind a chance to boost Imagecopy. gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 146 Fri Jan 21, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:13 EST gnox, Well, maybe you don't need it. Still. I doubt you can dump a _portion_ of the TT mono screen in any other way. It makes a nice viewer and has terrific print functions that are available as an ACC. Imagecopy 2 does have a color slant. No use for GIFs, eh? Hmmm. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 147 Sat Jan 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:36 EST MGIF does a grrrrreat job of showing GIFs in mono, by simulating grayscales in a flicker mode, Gnox. Imagecopy won't flicker, and it has the greatest capture routines this side of the CIA. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 148 Sat Jan 22, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 03:40 EST Gnox, What if you have an picture in Arabesque that you need a small portion of. You can use ImageCopy to clip the needed part of the picture and save it in whatever format you need to use in your DTP. I don't know any of the programs you are using so I dont' know if you have something that does this. John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 149 Sat Jan 22, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 06:53 EST Tomas, > I doubt you can dump a _portion_ of the TT mono screen in any other > way. You're probably right about that ... not something I've ever wanted to do, though. (John B,, both Megapaint and Touch-Up can easily save a clip from a graphic; I'm not familiar with Arabesque yet because I only just bought it, used.) > No use for GIFs, eh? Actually I've never seen one! Thanks for the responses, gents. If I ever get over my color-blind hardware condition I'll certainly take a good look at Imagecopy. gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 150 Sat Jan 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 12:48 EST Gnox, Never seen a GIF, eh? Could be a reason to add a VGA display to your TT. But until I added the CDII card, I used MGIF often to view color GIFs in simulated grayscale. It does quite an amazing job. Freeware, as I recall. Imagecopy 2 grabs any part of the screen, or all of it, and also has the absolute, total, undisputedly best print routines for putting anything that can be displayed on your screen onto paper. Its conversion utilities are very solid, and the price is friendly. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 151 Sat Jan 22, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 13:08 EST Tomas, I guess gnox wouldn't appreciate your collection, eh? -dmj ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 152 Sat Jan 22, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 17:49 EST Al, I'm curious, did you use Imagecopy 2 to print the screen captures in the Geneva Manual? John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 153 Sat Jan 22, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 20:44 EST dmj, Well, there are GIFs for every taste, almost. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 154 Sat Jan 22, 1994 G.FUHRMAN [gnox] at 23:01 EST Almost. Al, actually I always wondered why paint/graphic programs include printer drivers. I mean, what good is a piece of paper with no words on it, nothing but pictures? (As Alice might have said on the far side of the Looking Glass.) ;) (replied the Cheshire Cat.) gnox ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 155 Sun Jan 23, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 03:26 EST Flat, Yes, I used Imagecopy 2. Gnox, A picture is words, a thousand worth. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 156 Sun Jan 23, 1994 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 17:16 EST Choosey hackers choose .GIF! ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 157 Mon Jan 24, 1994 M.HILL13 [Mike] at 20:52 EST Terry, I heard this one on the Internet. Choosey Perverts Choose GIF's! Mike ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 158 Tue Jan 25, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 01:59 EST FaST Club (Falcon/ST...get it?) are in their new digs and are just catching up with the pile of FAXes I've sent them in recent weeks. There is progress being made on a new version. There are new features that I can't really post at this time. Hints? Well, I suspect that Al will be _very_ pleased. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 159 Tue Jan 25, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:40 EST Tomas, You devil. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 160 Wed Jan 26, 1994 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 01:48 EST GIF = Girl In Full-color JPG = Just a Pretty Girl ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 161 Sun Jan 30, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 23:20 EST John/Charles/Tomas, Imagecopy 2 saved me a lot of trouble today, so I thought I'd tell you how. I was writing a long piece in Calligrapher, with many other applications running under Geneva, and had pulled another long document into Calligrapher in order to steal a couple of paragraphs from it. (Don't call the cops; I was stealing from myself!) When I highlighted the part that I wanted to delete, Cal froze up solid. I looked at the screen and saw all the work I had just added to my article sitting there, frozen on my high-res screen. It was clearly lost, since I had noticed the auto-backup kick in just before I added the new material, and I hadn't thought of saving everything just before trying the deletion. But then I remembered Imagecopy. I always run with Imagecopy 2 loaded (as a program, not an accessory; it works even better as a PRG under Geneva, and still allows screen dumps), and so I hit Alt-Help and up popped the little hand. I drew a rectangle around the Calligrapher window and pressed Return. When I booted back up, there was my TIF file. I opened it up in a window and placed it beside my denuded Calligrapher document so I could type it in again. It wasn't quite the same as being able to pull it back into Cal as text (although I could have done that with scanner software), but it sure kept me from losing what I had written. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 162 Mon Jan 31, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 04:01 EST Al, Since you are using it, could you give me your general impressions of Calligrapher. I'll go mark the Calligrapher topic to read your response. If you choose to respond of course. John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 163 Tue Feb 01, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:21 EST Flat, Whew, I think I did this already in a message some time back. A couple of msgs in fact. I'll post a brief msg in the Cal area to recap. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 164 Mon Mar 14, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 23:27 EST Tomas, good to hear about the PNT/Jpeg addition to Imagecopy. Do you know if the 16 bit unpaleted problem has been addressed? John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 165 Tue Mar 15, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 03:15 EST See Flat, If you mean will it work with graphics boards, I believe that is what Jeremy is working on. (Does that help any? ) We haven't seen the new version yet. ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 166 Tue Mar 15, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:48 EST Tomas, It works with graphics boards in mono, at least on the CDII. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 167 Wed Mar 16, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 00:08 EST Al, Mono is a 1 plane resolution so everything should work fine in it. Color on the other hand is a mess.:-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 168 Wed Mar 16, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:32 EST Joey, Oddly, Imagecopy 2 works fine in CDII 32K mode. But the TIFs it saves can't be read except by IM2 in 32K mode. :( Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 169 Thu Mar 17, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 00:49 EST Hmmm... maybe 32K mode is setup like Atari's 32K mode... or vice versa.:-) Did you try the TIF files with the latest GEMview? ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 170 Sat Mar 19, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 02:54 EST Joey, Yes, I tried them with GEMview. No luck. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 171 Sun Mar 20, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 04:37 EST Al, What version? They didn't load before the last major update. There was new TIF.GVL uploaded the other day too but I haven't tried it yet. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 172 Sun Mar 20, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 11:17 EST Joey, The current version (2.0, I believe). Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 173 Sun Mar 20, 1994 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 15:48 EST Joey, I just received a copy of IMAGECOPY 2 and it is ver 2.03. Frank L ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 174 Sun Mar 20, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 17:57 EST Frank, What does the readme or the manual say about what's new in 2.3? Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 175 Sun Mar 20, 1994 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 19:09 EST Al, I haven't had the time to do much with it yet but still works great in Monochrome with CDII (at least in 800x608). It will also run in the same resolution but with Color 16, 256 (thats all I tried) but the color graphics would not show well at all. Black and white .IMG's do very well in the color mode with no poblem (of course only B/W [G]). Readme file reads: "New features in Imagecopy 2.03 1. Direct output (in the 'printer type' dialog now works with the Falcon 030. 2. There is a 'CMY+K seperation' option (also in the 'printer type' dialog) which creates CMYK output in seperate passes of CMY (Cyan, Magenta, Yellow) followed by K (Black). This is primarily designed for use with HP 500C Deskjets, which cannot print CMYK colour, but can also with the 550C Deskjets to avoid problems of chemical interaction between black and colour ink (see | 3.3.3.4.3 in the manual. In using this option you will need to feed the same sheet back into the printer for the second print pass, and you may want to select 'form feed' in the 'print options' dialog so that the page is ejected after each pass. 3. A bug which caused the mouse cursor to change colour when copying images in 256-colour modes has been fixed." Boy, I hope I don't get into trouble with this excerpt from the 'README' file. BTW - This done with NVDI installed. Frank L ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 176 Mon Mar 21, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 00:54 EST Al, Sorry, I meant the current verison of GEMview.:-) I don't have any way to grab a True Color image on my TT and test it but all the examples on the disk load into GEMview 3.01. I know when I first got Imagecopy some of the examples wouldn't load into GEMview. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 177 Mon Mar 21, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 08:52 EST Thanks, Frank. No changes in that version that affect my setup. Joey, Oh! Seems like GV is getting better. Now if only the interface would, too! Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 178 Mon Mar 21, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 09:41 EST I'm constantly amazed at the hoopla over Gemview. I simply can't stand to use it at all, and each new version I see gets bigger, slower, and more frustrating to use. I thought that updates were supposed to make a program better. You should see all of the bickering that still goes on (month after month) over at Compuserve over Lexicor's claim that they are the "distributors" of Gemview, even though the author specifically denies it in his documentation. Unbelievable! To me, the issue isn't worth the time it took me to post this message. After all, it's a shareware program -- and a German one to boot. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 179 Mon Mar 21, 1994 OUTRIDER [Terry] at 21:38 EST I couldn't agree more, Al and John. GEM-View has one of the worst interfaces I've ever seen, and although I tend to collect graphics programs, GEM-View is one that's not in my collection. I just can't get past the terrible interface and the general lack of user friendliness. Can't wait to see DMJ do it _right_. __ /erry .\\ay ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 180 Mon Mar 21, 1994 J.BRENNER1 [See Flat] at 23:00 EST John E. I have Gem-View and I have Imagecopy2. I didnt' like GEM-view when I tried it at first, I then bought ImageCopy2, I then found out after paying for it that it does not run on graphics cards. I then registered GEM-view and it takes anything I throw at it. Very slowly I grant you. John B. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 181 Tue Mar 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 01:10 EST Ja! GEM-Pfoo it is! Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 182 Tue Mar 22, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 02:04 EST John, No offense but there wasn't any hoopla before your post.:-) I don't like to post about GEMview in this topic but the TIF's that come out of I2 aren't liked by anything I use. In all honesty if it weren't for GEMview, I2 would be pretty useless to me. Hard to believe but I like the program and it has improved with each update. Ditto what See Flat said. Plus GEMview is handled by Cybercube here on GEnie. Lexicor... who knows?? I assumed when the author posted, that was the end of any questions. BTW, better watch those German remarks.:-) Reads like your saying all imported software is bad. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 183 Tue Mar 22, 1994 CBARRON at 02:05 EST John, WHY BRING that to this place? Signal to noise ratio is quite low due this problem, there why bring it here. Internet is no place to attempt to change a supposed contract. If interested I have a complete unixforum thread on the subject of forging headers of internet mail. If how to do it is so public, it is very trusting.... [not secure, the true source of anything is unknown.] ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 184 Tue Mar 22, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 06:03 EST Joey, The hoopla I'm talking about is the battle that has been going on for months now about the "rights" to GEM View. Most of the activity has been on CIS. It's just plain silly. Carl, I didn't say anything about Internet or forged headers. I'm talking about the documentation included with GEM View. You're both right. I shouldn't have brought it up here. I'm sorry. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 185 Tue Mar 22, 1994 CBARRON at 06:30 EST John, you did mention all the hoops being jumped thru. All caused by an alleged emailing from Dieter. What a waste of bandwidth BTW. Its slowing down over there. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 186 Tue Mar 22, 1994 CODEHEAD [Charles] at 11:40 EST Joey, >> I don't like to post about GEMview in this topic but the TIF's >> that come out of I2 aren't liked by anything I use. I decided to test ImageCopy 2's TIF file format after reading your message. I saved two example TIFF files (one monochrome, one color) from ImageCopy 2 and brought them over to the Mac, where I have 6 different programs that can read TIFF files (including Aldus Freehand, Color It!, and JPEG-View). Outcome: every program could read both of the test files without any trouble. The TIFF file format is one of the most complex graphics formats currently in use, and a lot of programs don't correctly support it as a result. Judging from the fact that all of my Mac programs could read the example TIFF files, ImageCopy 2 certainly appears to be following the format to the letter. I don't think ImageCopy 2 can be blamed for incorrect TIFF support in the other programs you use. Which programs are they, by the way? - Charles @ CodeHead Tech ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 187 Tue Mar 22, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 19:50 EST Charles, Thanks for the test. A reread of the IC2 manual shows that the author is quite explicit about which Atari apps have semi- and non-standard TIF adherence ... and IC2 is not one of them. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 188 Tue Mar 22, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 23:32 EST I decided to do a few tests of my own. I created two .TIF files with Imagecopy 2 and tested them on the PC. They loaded and viewed fine in 8 different applications: Photo Styler, Corel Draw, Corel Photo-Paint, Aldus Pagemaker, Ami Pro, Microsoft Word for Windows, Word Perfect, and the Central Point Desktop viewer. On the Atari, I loaded them successfully into Avant Vector, Pagestream, and Touchup. I'm told that they load into Gem View as well, but I didn't try. I don't have any other applications that claim to load .TIF files. I don't see how anyone could fault Imagecopy's .TIF file format. With this track record (including the six Mac applications Charles mentioned), I'd have to say that any program that can't handle Imagecopy's .TIF files is not correctly handling the .TIF format. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 189 Wed Mar 23, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 02:21 EST John and Charles, Hmmm... Touch-Up tells me it's an unrecognized compression method... I'll try some other things. Calamus SL just loads a scrambled image. Cranach Studio reports an error loading file. GEMview gives me some sort of mismatch error occasionally but it loads the file anyway. Most of the time I can load it into GEMview and save it out and it works fine. Sorry but I have to pick on your track record.:-) I2 is an Atari program for Atari users. It really should work best with Atari software. Now you gave 15 examples on the PC and MAC. You only gave 3 Atari examples. Since I don't have any of the MAC or PC software and I don't have Avant Vector or Pagestream, it's easier for me to find fault.:-) Thats why I said it didn't work with anything "I have". Besides, I'm the customer, I'm always right.:-) I do appreciate you guys taking the time to test it again! I'll make some test images with the key resolutions and bit planes. Maybe I can find my problem. Obviously you have it working with Touch Up and I don't so theres a good starting place. BTW, I don't know why Lexicor is complaining? Like John said, the programmer spelled everything out a long time ago. Why not just argue over if day comes before night or vice versa... it's about as productive. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 190 Wed Mar 23, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 03:45 EST OK, Sorry guys, everything works great, I'm an idiot, I'm lower then low... sheesh.:-) Last night I tried the demo pictures in the PHOTO folder real quick before I complained again, just to avoid such a problem. They DON'T load into anything, I stupidly assumed they came from Imagecopy. I've been using the program for the occasional screen grabbing so I haven't used it much since I bought it. The images I did capture, I ran through GEMview assuming they still wouldn't load. Well, I've updated the non loading software since I bought I2 and it all works fine now. BTW, it says in the manual SL doesn't work but it seems to load everything now. John, you where correct! Must have been the loading program as all the latest versions seem to work so far.:-) Sorry again for the, lack of experience, complaint on the subject. Guess this proves the customer ISN'T always right.:-) I also can't find any fault with the TIF format at this point. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 191 Wed Mar 23, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 06:25 EST Joey, Look at the Imagecopy 2 manual. It explains a lot about the way TIFs and other graphics files are (mis)handled by popular Atari apps. BTW, the customer IS always right ... until John sets him straight! Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 192 Wed Mar 23, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 20:59 EST Joey, . :^) John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 193 Wed Mar 23, 1994 F.LAWRENCE2 [FRANK] at 22:24 EST To All Interested, Using my TT030 with CDII/NVDI-et4000, 800x608 32k colors, I am able to view GIF, TIF, TINY, IMG all appear to be close to color. Now if I only knew how to adjust the colors I might be able to view with more accuracy. Now back to the manual (G). This was done with IMAGECOPY2 ver 2.03. I don't know if this could be done with earlier versions or not. Also viewed b/w IMG with no problem. Frank L ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 194 Wed Mar 23, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 23:40 EST Al, I don't think the applications actually mishandle TIF, they just don't handle enough of TIF.:-) The TIF manual is about 1/2" thick and you can do about 30 different things. Anyway, I still feel stupid.:-) I did read the manual on all the formats. Theres a wealth of information! John & Charles, feel free to cuss me privately in E-Mail.:-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 195 Thu Mar 24, 1994 S.SAMUELS [ORCA] at 01:02 EST John, ...your test sounds pretty cool and I agree Imagecopy 2 must be making good TIF's. If you care to, email me one of the TIF's, preferrably a small one, and I'll run it through some Atari app's that you didn't mention and report back. Best to ya and J. and CF and T, Stephen ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 196 Thu Mar 24, 1994 DMJ [dmj] at 22:54 EST Joey, Only 30 different things? That's a bit low... Are you reading the same TIFF specs that I'm reading? ~dmj ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 197 Fri Mar 25, 1994 REALM [Joey] at 00:50 EST Dmj, That was just rough guestimate based on the first 5 pages.:-) ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 198 Fri Mar 25, 1994 R.THIEMAN [T-MAN] at 23:34 EST Is there a method that I've missed that will tell me the characteristics of an image before printing it?? Just checkin _Rich_ ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 199 Sat Mar 26, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 15:22 EST T-Man, Hit Return while viewing an image and you'll see the specs on it. John ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 200 Fri Apr 29, 1994 K.OLSON10 [KenO.] at 18:30 EDT Thanks CODEHEADS - I got my copy of IMC2 yesterday. I must say it is a super prog. How I got along without is a mystery. My ATARI keeps keeping up with the pack. KenO. :) ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 201 Fri Apr 29, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 19:38 EDT KenO., No problem. Sorry it took so long. Have fun. ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 202 Sat Apr 30, 1994 L.TRAPANI [Lou @Machine] at 02:12 EDT John, Charles, or Muse, I just recently purchased Imagecopy 2 (about time, huh). Great utility. One question so far, it seems when I run Image Copy 2 (version 2.03 Nov.'93) under Geneva, if I try to capture a portion of the screen using the rubber banding feature via the mouse, it does not work. I can do it manually by entering the height and width of the image of the screen I want to capture and then using the cursor keys to move the box to where I want it, but I can not do this via the mouse. Without Geneva, it seems to work as it is supposed to work by letting me use the mouse to rubber band the section of the screen I want to capture. Is there a patch for this? Do I have the latest version? Thanks. -= Lou T. =- Written: Saturday, April 30, 1994 02:06 a.m. EDT ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 203 Sat Apr 30, 1994 A.FASOLDT [Al Fasoldt] at 10:34 EDT KenO, Always nice to hear someone rave about a product (an inexpensive one!) that we have been fond of. You'll find Imagecopy 2 a continual delight. Lou, IM2 works fine under Geneva here. Try running it as a PRG, not a DA. Al ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 204 Sat Apr 30, 1994 MUSE [Tomas] at 10:55 EDT Lou, Yes, it's about time. 2.03 is the current shipping version. Screen capturing works here under Geneva. Are you using the ACC version? ===Tomas=== ------------ Category 32, Topic 36 Message 205 Sat Apr 30, 1994 J.EIDSVOOG1 [CodeHead] at 14:18 EDT Lou, I haven't tried Imagecopy with Geneva. There is no patch for this problem (unless there's a patch for Geneva), as Imagecopy is not our creation. It's my guess that the problem is not within Imagecopy. Perhaps another Geneva/Imagecopy user can shed some light on this. John ------------