Date: Wed, 5 May 93 05:17:48 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #518 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Wed, 5 May 93 Volume 16 : Issue 518 Today's Topics: ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like? (2 msgs) HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days Mars Observer Job Opportunity Space FAQ 01/15 - Introduction Vandalizing the sky Vandalizing the sky. Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 03 May 93 16:50:07 GMT From: George Hastings Subject: ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like? Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro Jerry Liebelson (jlieb@is.morgan.com ) writes: > organ.com > Nntp-Posting-Host: katana > Organization: Morgan Stanley - IS > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 1993 16:15:01 GMT > Lines: 16 > > I want to know what weightlessness actually FEELS like. For example, is > there a constant sensation of falling? And what is the motion sickness > that some astronauts occasionally experience? > Please reply only if you are either a former or current astronaut, or > someone who has had this I'm not an astronaut, but I did experience weightlessness last summer onboard a Russian TU-76MDK aircraft during a week of cosmonaut training. To ME personally it FELT WONDERFUL! Incredible! Probably one of the most exciting things I've ever done. The closest I can come to actually describing the sensation is to ask you to imagine floating at the edge of a swimmming pool. Now you take a breath, duck under the water, place your feet against the side of the pool, stretch your arms out in front of you and pussh off the side gently to glide underwater, suspended halfway between the bottom and the surface. Got it? Now imagine not having to hold your breath, and remove the sensations of water pressure, resistance, and feeling the water flow past your sides as you move. If you can imagine all that, then you'll come close to the sensation of weightlessness. It was a feeling of FREEDOM! I had sore cheeks afterward from grinning so much! 8-) My reaction was not shared by all, however. I was lucky. For training on an aircraft doing parabolic arcs or for cosmonauts and astronauts in orbit, about half experience varying degrees of nausea. Your innards are used to being pulled down by 1-G when you weigh zero, internally everything tends to float higher inside. Remember the sensation you get on the first hill on a rollercoaster. On that first drop you are almost in free-fall and if you could weigh yourself during the drop, you'd measure only a fraction of your 1-G weight. Now imagine that just as you start down the hill and your stomach is floating somewhere perilously close to your tonsils, you look out in front of you and realize that the hill has no bottom! The hollow feeling in your stomach will not disappear in a few seconds. It will go on, and on, and on, and on, ad nauseum [literally!] 8-). I'd say that you'd throw up, but in weightlessness there IS no up, so you'd just throw OUT! ...better have a barf-bag hand, since EVERYTHING floats, and if your chunks ended up in somebody's ear, they'd probably never talk to you again! Six of the twelve of us on the training flight put their breakfasts in bags during the flight, and two more were pretty distressed, So you ca see that the feeling of weightlessness is NOT the same for everybody. None of the six Russian cosmonauts abaord with spaceflight experience got sick. ____________________________________________________________ | George Hastings ghasting@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu | | Space Science Teacher 72407.22@compuserve.com | If it's not | Mathematics & Science Center STAREACH BBS: 804-343-6533 | FUN, it's | 2304 Hartman Street OFFICE: 804-343-6525 | probably not | Richmond, VA 23223 FAX: 804-343-6529 | SCIENCE! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 03 May 93 17:12:17 GMT From: George Hastings Subject: ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like? Newsgroups: sci.space (kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov) writes: > Ron: > : It is the body's reaction to a strange environment. It appears to be > : induced partly to physical discomfort and part to mental distress. > : Some people are more prone to it than others, like some people are more > : prone to get sick on a roller coaster ride than others. The mental > : part is usually induced by a lack of clear indication of which way is > : up or down, ie: the Shuttle is normally oriented with its cargo bay > : pointed towards Earth, so the Earth (or ground) is "above" the head of > : the astronauts. About 50% of the astronauts experience some form of > : motion sickness, and NASA has done numerous tests in space to try to > : see how to keep the number of occurances down. > > I'm a volunteer in JSC's Space Biomedical Laboratory where they do, > among other things, some of the tests Ron mentions. I was in one > called the Pre-flight Adaptation Trainer, which consisted of a chair on > a several-degree-of-freedom motion base with moving geometric visual > aids. The goal was to measure the subject's > responses and subjective physiological descriptions and see if repeated > exposure to this environment could reduce future motion sickness > symptoms. This is similar to cosmonaut training in Star City, where trainees undergo "vestibular training". One technique is to put you in a chair that spins at about on rev/sec. With your eyes closed, you feel dizzy until the fluid in your ears reaches the same spin rate. Then a beeper is turned on, one beep per rev, synchronized with the chair. At the sound of each beep, you must tip your head as far as you can, first towad the right shoulder, then toward the left. The coriolis effect of this movement causes the fluid in your semi-circular canals to swirl rapidly, first one way, then the opposite. My first sensation was extreme dizziness, but very quickly, a strange sensation manifested itself. With no visual frame of reference, with continuing head-tipping, it began to produce the sensation of swinging forward and back! The dizziness disappeared. That was O.K. for a few more minutes, but as I continued the head movements and the rotation, it began to feel at each time I had the sensation of swinging forward I was turning 180 degrees to the side, until I was upside down. As the sensation of swinging back began, it felt as though I was also beginning to roll in the opposite direction, and by the time I had reached the back of my PERCEIVED swing to the rear, it felt as though I had rolled the other direction through 360 degrees ending upside down again. It was this perception of full circle rolls overlaid on the sensation of swinging the gave me the cold sweats after about six minutes. If the test had gone on longer, I'm certain that I would have hurled! If I make th final cut and return to Star City for a year's training, I'll have to be able to do this for a minimum of ten minutes without getting sick. When you can handle this one, they put you on this same rotating chair, and mount the chair on a swinging platform! GROAN! 8-) ____________________________________________________________ | George Hastings ghasting@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu | | Space Science Teacher 72407.22@compuserve.com | If it's not | Mathematics & Science Center STAREACH BBS: 804-343-6533 | FUN, it's | 2304 Hartman Street OFFICE: 804-343-6525 | probably not | Richmond, VA 23223 FAX: 804-343-6529 | SCIENCE! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 15:42:29 GMT From: fred j mccall 575-3539 Subject: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,sci.astro In <1rs0au$an6@access.digex.net> prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: >I just figured, if GOldin wants to really, prove out faster, cheaper >better, have some of the whiz kids slap together an expendable >space manuevering tug out of a BUs1, and use that for the re-boost. >it has to be better then using the Discovery as a tow truck. Well, no, for a lot of the reasons cited. Contamination risk is less using the Shuttle OMS system because the Shuttle is a nice big bird and that distances the source of contamination from the thing you're worried about (not to mention Shuttle mass blocking it). I'm curious. What would be your reaction if they took your advice, had some whiz kids cobble together something, slapped it on the butt of the HST, and it screwed up? I suspect you'd be the first person calling for lynchings. I'd rather have the people on the spot to deal with problems when we're talking about a $1G instrument. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 16:33:12 GMT From: Greg Mehall Subject: Mars Observer Job Opportunity Newsgroups: sci.space Mars Observer Job Opportunity The Department of Geology at Arizona State University is currently looking for personnel to staff the Mission Operations Center for the Mars Observer Thermal Emission Spectrometer experiment. This instrument is a Fourier transform infrared spectrometer, which will be used to determine the composition of rocks, soils, ices, clouds and atmosphere on Mars. Launch of the spacecraft occurred on September 25, 1992, with arrival at Mars in August of 1993. Job Description: Will be responsible for the planning of observations and generation of instrument commands used to operate the Mars Observer Thermal Emission Spectrometer (TES) experiment. Will manage the observation database and participate in validation of data downlinked from Mars. These activities will be performed on a computer workstation, and will involve extensive use of mission operations planning software developed at ASU. Science observation planning will require knowledge and application of complex procedures and ability to work independently. Knowledge of the Martian surface and atmosphere is required to plan observations. Will work directly with the Science Team, and must be capable of translating science objectives and strategies into actual observation sequences. Will participate in data analysis and generation of scientific papers. Qualifications: Bachelor's degree in natural science (geology, physics, astronomy or planetary science preferred), plus four years experience in science data acquisition and/or analysis. Master's degree in natural science desired. Prior experience and active participation with a research project is required. Extensive knowledge of UNIX operating system is required and experience with SUN workstations is highly desired. Prior experience with spacecraft mission operations, data collection and data analysis is desired. Position Information: Anticipated salary is $25,000 to $30,000. Position is funded yearly and could continue through 06/30/96, with continuation contingent upon NASA funding. Applications will be accepted between May 1 and June 30, 1993. Expected hire date will be between August 1 and September 1, 1993. Unfortunately, we cannot consider Email replies. Please send letter of application, resume and information for two potential references to: Arizona State University Human Resources - Employment Attn: Mars Observer Research Specialist Senior Box 871403 Tempe, AZ 85287 ------------------------------ Date: 3 May 1993 12:14:04 -0400 From: Jon Leech Subject: Space FAQ 01/15 - Introduction Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.answers,news.answers Archive-name: space/intro Last-modified: $Date: 93/05/03 12:08:04 $ FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ON SCI.SPACE/SCI.ASTRO INTRODUCTION This series of linked messages is periodically posted to the Usenet groups sci.space and sci.astro in an attempt to provide good answers to frequently asked questions and other reference material which is worth preserving. If you have corrections or answers to other frequently asked questions that you would like included in this posting, send email to leech@cs.unc.edu (Jon Leech). If you don't want to see the FAQ, add 'Frequently Asked Questions' to your KILL file for this group (if you're not reading this with a newsreader that can kill articles by subject, you're out of luck). The FAQ volume is excessive right now and will hopefully be trimmed down by rewriting and condensing over time. The FAQ postings are available in the Ames SPACE archive in FAQ/faq<#>. Good summaries will be accepted in place of the answers given here. The point of this is to circulate existing information, and avoid rehashing old answers. Better to build on top than start again. Nothing more depressing than rehashing old topics for the 100th time. References are provided because they give more complete information than any short generalization. Questions fall into three basic types: 1) Where do I find some information about space? Try your local public library first. The net is not a good place to ask for general information. Ask INDIVIDUALS (by email) if you must. There are other sources, use them, too. The net is a place for open ended discussion. 2) I have an idea which would improve space flight? Hope you aren't surprised, but 9,999 out of 10,000 have usually been thought of before. Again, contact a direct individual source for evaluation. NASA fields thousands of these each day. 3) Miscellanous queries. These are addressed on a case-by-case basis in the following series of FAQ postings. SUGGESTIONS FOR BETTER NETIQUETTE Read news.announce.newusers if you're on Usenet. Minimize cross references, [Do you REALLY NEED to?] Edit "Subject:" lines, especially if you're taking a tangent. Send mail instead, avoid posting follow ups. (1 mail message worth 100 posts). Internet mail readers: send requests to add/drop to SPACE-REQUEST not SPACE. Read all available articles before posting a follow-up. (Check all references.) Cut down attributed articles (leave only the points you're responding to; remove signatures and headers). Summarize! Put a return address in the body (signature) of your message (mail or article), state your institution, etc. Don't assume the 'reply' function of mailers will work. Use absolute dates. Post in a timely way. Don't post what everyone will get on TV anyway. Some editors and window systems do character count line wrapping: keep lines under 80 characters for those using ASCII terminals (use carriage returns). INDEX TO LINKED POSTINGS I've attempted to break the postings up into related areas. There isn't a keyword index yet; the following lists the major subject areas in each posting. Only those containing astronomy-related material are posted to sci.astro (indicated by '*' following the posting number). # Contents 1* Introduction Suggestions for better netiquette Index to linked postings Notes on addresses, phone numbers, etc. Contributors 2* Network resources Overview Mailing lists Periodically updated information Warning about non-public networks 3* Online (and some offline) sources of images, data, etc. Introduction Viewing Images Online Archives NASA Ames NASA Astrophysics Data System NASA Jet Propulsion Lab (Mission Information and Images) NASA Langley (Technical Reports) NASA Spacelink National Space Science Data Center Space Telescope Science Institute Electronic Info. Service Starcat Astronomical Databases Astronomy Programs Orbital Element Sets SPACE Digest Landsat & NASA Photos Planetary Maps Cometary Orbits 4* Performing calculations and interpreting data formats Computing spacecraft orbits and trajectories Computing planetary positions Computing crater diameters from Earth-impacting asteroids Map projections and spherical trignometry Performing N-body simulations efficiently Interpreting the FITS image format Sky (Unix ephemeris program) Three-dimensional star/galaxy coordinates 5* References on specific areas Publishers of space/astronomy material Careers in the space industry DC-X single-stage to orbit (SSTO) program How to name a star after a person LLNL "great exploration" Lunar Prospector Lunar science and activities Orbiting Earth satellite histories Spacecraft models Rocket propulsion Spacecraft design Esoteric propulsion schemes (solar sails, lasers, fusion...) Spy satellites Space shuttle computer systems SETI computation (signal processing) Amateur satellies & weather satellites Tides 6* Constants and equations for calculations 7* Astronomical Mnemonics 8 Contacting NASA, ESA, and other space agencies/companies NASA Centers / Arianespace / ESA / NASDA / Soyuzkarta / Space Camp / Space Commerce Corporation / Spacehab / SPOT Image Other commercial space businesses 9 Space shuttle answers, launch schedules, TV coverage Shuttle launchings and landings; schedules and how to see them Why does the shuttle roll just after liftoff? How to receive the NASA TV channel, NASA SELECT Amateur radio frequencies for shuttle missions Solid Rocket Booster fuel composition 10 Planetary probes - Historical Missions US planetary missions Mariner (Venus, Mars, & Mercury flybys and orbiters) Pioneer (Moon, Sun, Venus, Jupiter, and Saturn flybys and orbiters) Ranger (Lunar lander and impact missions) Lunar Orbiter (Lunar surface photography) Surveyor (Lunar soft landers) Viking (Mars orbiters and landers) Voyager (Outer planet flybys) Soviet planetary missions Soviet Lunar probes Soviet Venus probes Soviet Mars probes Japanese planetary missions Planetary mission references 11 Upcoming planetary probes - missions and schedules Cassini Galileo Magellan Mars Observer TOPEX/Poseidon Ulysses Other space science missions Proposed missions 12 Controversial questions What happened to the Saturn V plans Why data from space missions isn't immediately available Risks of nuclear (RTG) power sources for space probes Impact of the space shuttle on the ozone layer How long can a human live unprotected in space How the Challenger astronauts died Using the shuttle beyond Low Earth Orbit The "Face on Mars" 13 Space activist/interest/research groups and space publications Groups Publications Undocumented Groups 14 How to become an astronaut 15 Orbital and Planetary Launch Services NOTES ON ADDRESSES, PHONE NUMBERS, ETC. Unless otherwise specified, telephone numbers, addresses, and so on are for the United States of America. Non-US readers should remember to add the country code for telephone calls, etc. CREDITS Eugene Miya started a series of linked FAQ postings some years ago which inspired (and was largely absorbed into) this set. Peter Yee and Ron Baalke have and continue to spend a lot of their own time setting up the SPACE archives at NASA Ames and forwarding official NASA announcements. Many other people have contributed material to this list in the form of old postings to sci.space and sci.astro which I've edited. Please let me know if corrections need to be made. Contributors I've managed to keep track of are: 0004847546@mcimail.com (Francis Reddy) - map projections ad038@yfn.ysu.edu (Steven Fisk) - publication refs. akerman@bill.phy.queensu.CA (Richard Akerman) - crater diameters alweigel@athena.mit.edu (Lisa Weigel) - SEDS info aoab314@emx.utexas.edu (Srinivas Bettadpur) - tides awpaeth@watcgl.waterloo.edu (Alan Wm Paeth) - map projections aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) - Great Exploration baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) - planetary probe schedules bankst@rata.vuw.ac.nz (Timothy Banks) - map projections, variable star analysis archive bern@uni-trier.de (Jochen Bern) - German mnemonic translation brosen@pioneer.arc.nasa.gov (Bernie Rosen) - Space Camp bschlesinger@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov (Barry Schlesinger) - FITS format cew@venera.isi.edu (Craig E. Ward) - space group contact info chapin@cbnewsc.att.com (Tom Chapin) - planetary positions cunnida@tenet.edu (D. Alan Cunningham) - NASA Spacelink cyamamot@kilroy.Jpl.Nasa.Gov (Cliff Yamamoto) - orbital elements datri@convex.com (Anthony Datri) - PDS/VICAR viewing software daver@sjc.mentorg.com (Dave Rickel) - orbit formulae dlbres10@pc.usl.edu (Phil Fraering) - propulsion eder@hsvaic.boeing.com (Dani Eder) - Saturn V plans, SRBs eugene@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Eugene N. Miya) - introduction, NASA contact info, started FAQ postings french@isu.isunet.edu (Patrick M. French) - space group contact info g@telesoft.com (Gary Morris) - amateur radio info gaetz@cfa.harvard.edu (Terry Gaetz) - N-body calculations, orbital dynamics grandi@noao.edu (Steve Grandi) - planetary positions greer%utd201.dnet%utadnx@utspan.span.nasa.gov (Dale M. Greer) - constants henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) - survival in vacuum, astronaut how-to, Challenger disaster, publication refs, DC-X higgins@fnal.bitnet (William Higgins) - RTGs, publishers, shuttle landings, spysats, propulsion, "Face on Mars" hmueller@cssun.tamu.edu (Hal Mueller) - map projections, orbital dynamics jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) - launch services jim@pnet01.cts.com (Jim Bowery) - propulsion, launch services jnhead@pirl.lpl.arizona.edu (James N. Head) - atmospheric scale heights jscotti@lpl.arizona.edu (Jim Scotti) - planetary positions kcarroll@zoo.toronto.edu (Kieran A. Carroll)- refs for spacecraft design ken@orion.bitnet (Kenneth Ng) - RTGs kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (Ken Jenks) - shuttle roll manuever klaes@verga.enet.dec.com (Larry Klaes) - planetary probe history leech@cs.unc.edu (Jon Leech) - crater diameters lfa@ssi.com (Lou Adornato) - orbital dynamics maury.markowitz@egsgate.fidonet.org (Maury Markowitz) - propulsion max@west.darkside.com (Erik Max Francis) - equations mbellon@mcdurb.Urbana.Gould.COM - N-body calculations mcconley@phoenix.Princeton.edu (Marc Wayne Mcconley) - space careers msb@sq.com (Mark Brader) - Mariner 1 info. mwm@cmu.edu (Mark Maimone) - SPACE Digest nickw@syma.sussex.ac.uk (Dr. Nick Watkins) - models, spysats ohainaut@eso.org (Olivier R. Hainaut) - publishers, STARCAT oneil@aio.jsc.nasa.gov (Graham O'Neil) - Lunar Prospector panama@cup.portal.com (Kenneth W Durham) - cometary orbits, IAU paul.blase@nss.fidonet.org (Paul Blase) - propulsion pete@denali.gsfc.nasa.gov (Pete Banholzer) - Clementine pjs@plato.jpl.nasa.gov (Peter Scott) - RTGs pschleck@unomaha.edu (Paul W. Schleck) - AMSAT, ARRL contact info rdb@mel.cocam.oz.au (Rodney Brown) - propulsion refs rja7m@phil.cs.virginia.edu (Ran Atkinson) - FTPable astro. programs rjungcla@ihlpb.att.com (R. Michael Jungclas)- models roelle@sigi.jhuapl.edu (Curt Roelle) - German mnemonic translation seal@leonardo.jpl.nasa.gov (David Seal) - Cassini mission schedule shafer@skipper.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) - photos, shuttle landings smith@sndpit.enet.dec.com (Willie Smith) - photos stephen@gpwd.gp.co.nz (Stephen Dixon) - shuttle audio frequencies sterner@warper.jhuapl.edu (Ray Sterner) - planetary positions stooke@vaxr.sscl.uwo.ca (Phil Stooke) - planetary maps ted_anderson@transarc.com (Ted Anderson) - propulsion terry@astro.as.utexas.edu (Terry Hancock) - NASA center info thorson@typhoon.atmos.coloState.edu (Bill Thorson) - FITS info tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu (Todd L. Masco) - SPACE Digest tom@ssd.csd.harris.com (Tom Horsley) - refs for algorithms veikko.makela@helsinki.fi (Veikko Makela) - orbital element sets Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org (Wales Larrison) - groups & publications wayne@csri.utoronto.ca (Wayne Hayes) - constants weemba@libra.wistar.upenn.edu (Matthew P Wiener) - Voyager history yamada@yscvax.ysc.go.jp (Yoshiro Yamada) - ISAS/NASDA missions yee@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Peter Yee) - AMES archive server, propulsion In Net memoriam: Ted Flinn NEXT: FAQ #2/15 - Network Resources ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 16:00:00 GMT From: fred j mccall 575-3539 Subject: Vandalizing the sky Newsgroups: sci.space In 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) writes: >I would guess that the best legal and moral basis for protest would >be violation of private property. "I bought this house, out in >the boondocks, specifically to enjoy my hobby, amateur astronomy. Now >this billboard has made that investment worthless, so I want the >price of the property, in damages." It wouldn't take too many >succesful cases like that to make bill-sats prohibitively expensive. Except for one small detail: I thought it had already been established that this would interfere minimally, if at all, with even *professional* astronomers, much less with amateurs. Damned difficult to win a case where you can't demonstrate damages, and I don't think complaining that your sky has been 'besmirched by vile mankind' is going to get you real far. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 3 May 1993 15:57:38 GMT From: fred j mccall 575-3539 Subject: Vandalizing the sky. Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space In <1993Apr30.160814.1@stsci.edu> hathaway@stsci.edu writes: >In article <1993Apr30.170718.1218@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: >> In gfk39017@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (George F. Krumins) writes: >> >>>I was suggesting that the minority of professional and amateur astronomers >>>have the right to a dark, uncluttered night sky. >> >> And from whence does this right stem, that it overrides the 'rights' >> of the rest of us? >> > Let me get this right - sorry, try again. Let me get this straight - >well maybe that too is a poor choice of words - someone might think >I'm pushing a gay agenda. How about: let me try to understand this >by re-phrasing it as an extreme. I, as a minority of one, have no right >to a beautiful world. You, on the other hand have the right to make an >ugly one because you presume to speak for all the rest. And I cannot >complain. Curious. Yes, a nice "re-phrasing it as an extreme". Pleased that you don't let little things like what I actually said stand in the way of 'proving' your position via claiming things that I never said. Most curious, indeed. If you wish to maintain your pristine sky, I suggest you come up with economically viable ways to replace the funding you would prohibit them from acquiring for this mission by doing the advertising. Otherwise, you should get out of the way, because Adam Smith's dead hand is likely to strangle you, otherwise. >.. >>>I say: >>>What I'm objecting to here is a floating billboard that, presumably, >>>would move around in the sky. I, for one, am against legislating >>>at all. I just wish that people had a bit of common courtesy, and >>>would consider how their greed for money impacts the more ethereal and >>>aesthetic values that make us human. This includes the need for wild >>>and unspoiled things, including the night sky. >> >> Oh, I see. You don't want any legislation that might impinge on you; >> you just want everyone else on the planet to do what you want. >> >And do you want everyone to do as you wish (insist on putting something >up that will impact everyone for selfish reasons) _without_ any legislation? >And no one else can even object? Object as you like. Do as you like. But if you think that a minority 'right' that doesn't exist should be allowed to stand in the way of research just because you don't like the idea that part of it is being funded by 'grubby commercialism', then I would suggest that you come up with better solutions for where to get the money from. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to listen to you, if you should come up with something workable. >Somehow I think this whole shoving >contest has gotten way off the track. I'm ready to let this thread >die a quick and merciful death. No doubt you are, after trying to have the last word on it. If you're ready to let it die, why did you even write a note? -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 518 ------------------------------