Date: Sun, 2 May 93 06:05:58 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #512 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sun, 2 May 93 Volume 16 : Issue 512 Today's Topics: *** FTP images ASTRO server *** ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like? Boeing TSTO (Was: Words from Chairman of Boeing) (2 msgs) Combo Propulsion System!? Deployable Space Dock.. Electrical Spacecraft via Magnetic field of earth? Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. Hall Generators from USSR HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days Human Habitale Planets? Internet resources Kaliningrad (Was: Tsniimach Enterprise) moon image in weather sat image Mothership for Flybys and cutting costs.. (2 msgs) Philosophy Quest. How Boldly? Revival of San Marco? (was Re: Commercial Space News #22) Rocket Types Single Launch Space Station Teflon (Re: Long term Human Missions temperature of the dark sky Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 14:04:00 GMT From: Frank ROUSSEL Subject: *** FTP images ASTRO server *** Newsgroups: sci.space I commend everybody to look at the FTP site 'ftp.cicb.fr' -> Ethernet address 129.20.128.2 <- in the directory /pub/Images/ASTRO: there are lots of images (all of kinds in astronomy subject) especially in GIF format and a NEW ! directory of some JPL animations For your comfort, README files in all subdirectories give size and description of each image, and a 7 days' newer images' list is in READMENEW Note: you can connect it as 'anonymous' or 'ftp' user, then the quota for each is 8 users connected in the same time. So, if the server responds you "connection refused", be patient ! 2nd note: this site is reachable by Gopher at 'roland.cicb.fr' -> Ethernet address 129.20.128.27 <- in 'Divers serveurs Ftp/Le serveur ftp du CRI-CICB/Images/ASTRO' If you have any comments, suggestions, problems, then you can contact me at E-mail 'rousself@univ-rennes1.fr' Hope you enjoy it ! ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 17:00:23 GMT From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Subject: ASTRONAUTS---What does weightlessness feel like? Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro : In article <1993Apr29.121501@is.morgan.com>, jlieb@is.morgan.com (Jerry Liebelson) writes... : > I want to know what weightlessness actually FEELS like. For example, is : >there a constant sensation of falling? Ron Baalke (baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov) replied: : Yes, weightlessness does feel like falling. It may feel strange at first, : but the body does adjust. The feeling is not too different from that : of sky diving. I'm no astronaut, but I've flown in the KC-135 several times. I'll tell you about my first flight. At the on-set of weightlessness, my shoulders lifted and my spine straightened. I felt a momentary panic, and my hands tried to grab onto something (like the strap keeping me firmly against the floor) to prevent me from falling; I remember conciously over-ruling my involuntary motions. My ears felt (not heard) a rush and I could feel fluid moving in my head (like when you get up from bed while you have a cold). At that point, I ceased to concentrate on my physiological response, since I had some science to do. I was busy keeping my experiment going and keeping track of all the parts during the "return" of gravity and subsequent 1.8-G pull-out, so I didn't really pay attention to physiology at that time. After about 5 parabolas, I discovered that I was performing one of the tricks I've discovered to keep myself from getting motion sickness; I was keeping my head very still and moving very slowly -- all except my hands and arms, which needed to be in rapid, concious motion for my experiment. During the pull-out to parabola 5, my queasiness finally started to get to me, and I had to use one of those air-sickness bags. I was basically useless for the rest of that flight, so I went to the seats in the back of the plane while my partner (whom I drafted for just this purpose) kept working on the experiment while I was ill. (He was a vetran Vomit Comet rider, one of those anomalous people who don't get sick on the thing.) I didn't think of it as a "constant sensation of falling" so much as like swimming in air. It's very close to the sensations I feel when I'm scuba diving and I turn my head down and fins up. Jerry: : >And what is the motion sickness : >that some astronauts occasionally experience? Ron: : It is the body's reaction to a strange environment. It appears to be : induced partly to physical discomfort and part to mental distress. : Some people are more prone to it than others, like some people are more : prone to get sick on a roller coaster ride than others. The mental : part is usually induced by a lack of clear indication of which way is : up or down, ie: the Shuttle is normally oriented with its cargo bay : pointed towards Earth, so the Earth (or ground) is "above" the head of : the astronauts. About 50% of the astronauts experience some form of : motion sickness, and NASA has done numerous tests in space to try to : see how to keep the number of occurances down. I'm a volunteer in JSC's Space Biomedical Laboratory where they do, among other things, some of the tests Ron mentions. I was in one called the Pre-flight Adaptation Trainer, which consisted of a chair on a several-degree-of-freedom motion base with moving geometric visual aids. The goal was to measure the victim's^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H subject's responses and subjective physiological descriptions and see if repeated exposure to this environment could reduce future motion sickness symptoms. Jerry -- I don't know of any former or active-duty astronauts who personally read this group. I know that Bruce McCandless's office had been waiting anxiously for the Space Station Redesign option I posted last week, but I don't think Bruce reads the group himself. -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything." -- Edward John Phelps, American Diplomat/Lawyer (1825-1895) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 15:11:25 GMT From: "Richard A. Schumacher" Subject: Boeing TSTO (Was: Words from Chairman of Boeing) Newsgroups: sci.space [Description of Boeing study of two-staged spaceplane using supersonic ramjets deleted.] In other words, Boeing is not seriously thinking about reliable, less-expensive access to orbit. They just like to fool around with exotic airplanes. ------------------------------ Date: 1 May 1993 12:32:47 -0400 From: Matthew DeLuca Subject: Boeing TSTO (Was: Words from Chairman of Boeing) Newsgroups: sci.space In article schumach@convex.com (Richard A. Schumacher) writes: >In other words, Boeing is not seriously thinking about >reliable, less-expensive access to orbit. They just like >to fool around with exotic airplanes. This presupposes that no supersonic ramjet aircraft/spacecraft can be reliable or low-cost. This is unproven. -- Matthew DeLuca Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!matthew Internet: matthew@phantom.gatech.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 12:39:16 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Combo Propulsion System!? Newsgroups: sci.space How hard or easy would it be to have a combo mission such as a solar sail on the way out to the outer planets, but once in near to orbit to use more normal means.. Seems that everyone talks about using one system and one system only per mission, why not have more than one propulsion system? Or did I miss something.. ?? or did it die in committee? == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 17:17:05 GMT From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Subject: Deployable Space Dock.. Newsgroups: sci.space : In article <1993Apr30.000050.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: : >Why not build a inflatable space dock. Henry Spencer (henry@zoo.toronto.edu) wrote: : If you're doing large-scale satellite servicing, being able to do it in : a pressurized hangar makes considerable sense. The question is whether : anyone is going to be doing large-scale satellite servicing in the near : future, to the point of justifying development of such a thing. That's a mighty fine idea. But since you asked "Why not," I'll respond. Putting aside the application of such a space dock, there are other factors to consider than just pressurized volume. Temperature control is difficult in space, and your inflatable hangar will have to incorporate thermal insulation (maybe a double-walled inflatable). Micrometeoroid protection and radiation protection are also required. Don't think this will be a clear plastic bubble; it's more likely to look like a big white ball made out of the same kind of multi-layer fabric that soft-torso space suits are made out of today. Because almost all manned space vessels (Skylab, Mir, Salyut) used their pressurization for increased structural rigidity, even though they had (have) metal skins, they still kind of qualify as inflatable. The inflation process would have to be carefully controlled. The space environment reduces ductility in exposed materials (due to temperature extremes, monotomic Oxygen impingement, and radiation effects on materials), so your "fabric" may not retain any flexibility for long. (This may not matter.) Even after inflation, pressure changes in the hangar may cause flexing in the fabric, which could lead to holes and tears as ductility decreases. These are some of the technical difficulties which the LLNL proposal for an inflatable space station dealt with to varying degrees of success. -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "Good ideas are common -- what's uncommon are people who'll work hard enough to bring them about." -- Ashleigh Brilliant ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 12:44:41 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Electrical Spacecraft via Magnetic field of earth? Newsgroups: sci.space Okay, the earth has a magnetic field (unless someone missed something?) Okay if you put a object in the earth magnetic field, it produces electricty.. Now the question. Can you use electricity to power a space/low earth orbit vehicle? and i fyou can, can you use the magnetic field of the earth to power it?? Can the idea of a "dragless" satellite be used in part to create the electrical field? After all the dragless satellite is (I might be wrong), a suspended between to pilons, the the pilons compensate for drag.. I think I know what I want to say, just not sure how to say it.. A dragless satellite sounds interestingly enough liek a generator. == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked Sorry for spelling, have not brought windows 3.1 online with my modem and comm program. YET!! almos tthere.. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 15:16:01 GMT From: "Richard A. Schumacher" Subject: Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. Newsgroups: sci.space You should have been following the discussion of GRBs going on in sci.astro. It's been discussed in some detail, with references even. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 07:01:07 GMT From: "TAMOOR A. ZAIDI" Subject: Hall Generators from USSR Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.physics Hi Folks, Last year America bought two "Hall Generators" which are used as thrusters for space vehicles from former USSR,if I could recall correctly these devices were sent to JPL,Pasadena labs for testing and evaluation. I am just curious to know how these devices work and what what principle is involved .what became of them.There was also some controversy that the Russian actually cheated,sold inferior devices and not the one they use in there space vehicles. Any info will be appreciated... ok { Thank{ in advance... Tamoor A Zaidi Lockheed Commercial Aircraft Center Norton AFB,San Bernardino teezee@netcom.com de244@cleveland.freenet.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 13:44:20 GMT From: "Richard A. Schumacher" Subject: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,sci.astro In <1rs0au$an6@access.digex.net> prb@access.digex.net (Pat) writes: >How different would the contamination threat of a small manuevering tug >be from that of the Shuttle and it's OMS engines?????? The aperture door will be shut during reboost. Using the shuttle means that there will be someone nearby to pry the door open again if it should stick. >I just figured, if GOldin wants to really, prove out faster, cheaper >better, have some of the whiz kids slap together an expendable >space manuevering tug out of a BUs1, and use that for the re-boost. It's clear that the "whiz kids" are not running the show. In any case it's not prudent to stick a "slapped together" explosive device on the end of a billion dollar asset that you'd like to see again. (Wiseacres might say that a shuttle is a slapped-together explosive device, but at least it's had some testing.) ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 12:28:10 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Human Habitale Planets? Newsgroups: sci.space Habital planets are also dependent on what kind of plant life can be grown.. and such.. Length of growing season (that is if you want something more than VAT food, argh, Id ratehr eat an MRE for along period of time). I know in Fairbanks (Furbanks to some) the winter can get to -60 or so F, but in the summer can get to +90 and such.. I know of worse places.. Incans and Sherpa and other low pressure atmosphere and such are a limit in human adaptability(someone mentioend that Incan woman must come to lower elevations to have babies brought to term? true?) I remember a book by Pourrnelle I think that delt with a planet was lower density air.. I wonder what the limit on the other end of atmospheres? I am limiting to human needs and stresses and not alien possibilties.. Thou aliens might be more adapted to a totally alien to human environment, such as the upper atmosphere of Jupiter or?? Almost makes bio-engineered life easy... == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ------------------------------ Date: 1 May 93 02:58:47 GMT From: James Thomas Green Subject: Internet resources Newsgroups: sci.space STK1203@VAX003.STOCKTON.EDU Pontificated: >I am taking a course entitled "Exploring Science Using Internet". >For our final project, we are to find a compendium of Internet resources >dealing with a science-related topic. I chose Astronomy. Anyway, I was >wondering if anyone out there knew of any interesting resources on Internet >that provide information on Astronomy, space, NASA, or anything like that. > One of the sci.space FAQ postings deal with this. It's archived somewhere. Perhaps someone can post where it is (I don' remember). /~~~(-: James T. Green :-)~~~~(-: jgreen@oboe.calpoly.edu :-)~~~\ |I didn't do it! Nobody saw me do it! You can't prove anything! | | | ------------------------------ Date: 29 Apr 93 22:43:22 From: Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org Subject: Kaliningrad (Was: Tsniimach Enterprise) Newsgroups: sci.space F.Baube[tm] writes: >> Tsniimach Enterprise is described as a ex-military >>establishment, ... They are located near the NPO Energia >>facility in Kaliningrad, outside of Moscow. > >If this facility is in Kaliningrad, this is not near Moscow, it is >in fact the ex-East Prussian Konigsberg, now a Russian enclave on >the Baltic coast. It is served by ships and rail, and the intrepid >traveller in Europe would find it accessible and might even want to >try to arrange a tour (??). Hmm... there must be two towns with the same name. Kaliningrad, located just North of Moscow is correct. It is the home of several Russian space enterprises, including NPO Energia, Krunichev, Fakel, and Tsniimach. The main Russian manned spacecraft control facility is also located here. Kaliningrad is easily reachable by auto from Moscow, and tours can be arranged. Call ahead though, there are still armed military guards at many of these facilities -- who don't speak English, aren't well paid, and are rather bored. It's a very popular destination with Western space industry types at the moment. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Wales Larrison Space Technology Investor --- Maximus 2.01wb ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 12:20:14 EDT From: RFM@psuvm.psu.edu Subject: moon image in weather sat image Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.geo.meteorology,sci.geo.geology In article , billosh@netcom.com (William E. O'Shaughnessy) says: > >If you brighten up the dark part of CV043015.GIF with your viewer you >will see two other objects near the upper left part of the moon. >One is actually between the weather satellite and the moon. > > Bill O'Shaughnessy > What are those other objects? UFOs???? ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 13:13:12 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Mothership for Flybys and cutting costs.. Newsgroups: sci.space Getting wierd again? Okay we have figure out that a mission specifically to Pluto is to large and to expensive.. Okay what about launching one probe with multiple parts.. Kind of liek the old MIRV principle of old Cold War Days. Basically what I mean is design a mother ship that has piggy backed probes for different missions,namely different planets. Each probe would be tied in with the mother ship (or earth as the case may be).. This is good when and if we go for Mars (the MArs mission can act as either Mother ship or relay point for the probes. Also the mother ship would be powered (if not the Mars Mission) by a normal propulsion, but also a solar sail (main reason for solar sail race is to see what can be done and autmoated?) the sail would get the probes to were they needed.. I know the asteroid/meteor clouds (and such) might get in the way of a Sail?? Main reasonf ro mother ship idea is to make it more economoical to send multiple probes/mission/satellites/exploreres to different places and cut costs.. The probes could do fly bys or ?? we shall see... == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ------------------------------ Date: 1 May 1993 10:01:34 -0400 From: Matthew DeLuca Subject: Mothership for Flybys and cutting costs.. Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993May1.051312.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: >Getting wierd again? Or perhaps even weird? >Okay we have figure out that a mission specifically to Pluto is to large and to >expensive.. Hmmm, you might want to read this group more carefully; there's been a good amount of discussion of the proposed Pluto Fast Flyby (PFF) mission that is specifically designed to be small and cheap. -- Matthew DeLuca Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!matthew Internet: matthew@phantom.gatech.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 05:36:56 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Philosophy Quest. How Boldly? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Apr30.164327.8663@hemlock.cray.com> bobo@thejester.cray.com (Bob Kierski) writes: >...Over the years we have decided that certain >cultures need improvements. The native americans is a good example. Prior >to our attempt to civilize them, the native american culture had very >little crime, no homelessnes, no poverty... This is, shall we say, an overly-broad statement. In particular, are you referring to the native American culture that existed in 1400, or the one that existed in 1800? (Simplify things by assuming we're talking about the eastern US rather than the whole continent.) Given that those were *radically* different cultures, which one are you referring to? >...If we encounter life elsewhere, do we tell them they have to live in >houses, farm the land and go to church on sunday? Note that the pre-Columbian native Americans, east of the Mississippi, did all of these things. (Well, maybe not "on Sunday", but they did have organized religions, not to mention cities and governments.) If you are judging the native Americans by the tribal culture that existed in 1800, you might want to read an account of the De Soto expedition to find out what pre-Columbian native American culture, at least in the more civilized parts of the continent, was like. -- SVR4 resembles a high-speed collision | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology between SVR3 and SunOS. - Dick Dunn | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 04:02:52 GMT From: Josh Hopkins Subject: Revival of San Marco? (was Re: Commercial Space News #22) Newsgroups: sci.space higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >In article <324417a1@ofa123.fidonet.org>, Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org writes: >> COMMERCIAL SPACE NEWS/SPACE TECHNOLOGY INVESTOR NUMBER 22 >[...] >> Other commercial launch site ventures -- including those at >> Woomera, Poker Flat, Cape York, White Sands, Alabama Off-Shore >> Platform, Hawaii, and Vandenberg have to also be judged against >> these criteria. In my opinion, some of these ventures are flying >> on hope and speculation, and not on sound financial grounds.] >This reminds me... my fuzzy brain recalls that somebody was thinking >of reviving the San Marco launch platform off the coast of Kenya, >where the Copernicus satellite was launched around 1972. Is this >true, or am I imagining it? Possibly it's connected with one of the >Italian programs to revive the Scout in a new version. >That old platform must be getting pretty rusty, and there ain't a lot >of infrastructure to go with it... My information shows that the last San Marco launch was 1988. There seem to have been a total of seven before that. I seem to recall that someone, either ASI or the University of Rome (?) includes money in their annual budget for maintainance of the platforms (there are actually two). The Italians have been spending money to develop an advanced Scout. However, recent events in the Italian space program, and the Italian government overall make me skeptical that this will get off the ground in the near future. -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu "Find a way or make one." -attributed to Hannibal ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 16:17:21 GMT From: Jay Brinkmeyer Subject: Rocket Types Newsgroups: sci.space in article <1rpv9o$k00@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au>, u9152083@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au (Glen Justin Balmer) says: > Message-ID: <1rpv9o$k00@wraith.cs.uow.edu.au> ... > If not, has anybody heard of the particle propolsion system? > > Thanx. 8-) > > Glen Balmer... > I believe that my former employer Hughes Aircraft Company has a working Ion Propulsion system for satellites. Jay Brinkmeyer ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 16:34:23 GMT From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Subject: Single Launch Space Station Newsgroups: sci.space : Andy Cohen writes: : >the Single Launch Core Station concept. A Shuttle external tank and solid : >rocket boosters would be used to launch the station into orbit. Shuttle : >main engines would be mounted to the tail of the station module for launch : >and jettisoned after ET separation. Karl Dishaw (0004244402@mcimail.com) replied: : Why jettison the SSMEs? Why not hold on to them and have a shuttle : bring them down to use as spares? One performance reason comes to mind: if you jettison the SSME's, you don't have to drag them with you when you perform your circularization burn(s). On-orbit, SSME's are just dead weight, since we don't have an SSME H2/O2 pressurization mechanism which works in zero-G. This means that you can't use them for re-boost or anything else. Dead weight has a couple of advantages, but more disadvantages. Throw-away SSME's might let us use some of the old SSME's which are not- quite-man-ratable. But I doubt we'd do that; the cost of a launch failure is too high. -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "...Development of the space station is as inevitable as the rising of the sun." -- Wernher von Braun ------------------------------ Date: 1 May 1993 02:40:11 -0700 From: Dan Tilque Subject: Teflon (Re: Long term Human Missions Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,sci.astro hausner@qucis.queensu.ca (Alejo Hausner) writes: >rek@siss81 (Robert Kaye) writes: >> >>Just a few contributions from the space program to "regular" society: >> >>2. Teflon (So your eggs don't stick in the pan) > >Sorry to split hairs, but I just read in "The making of the atomic >bomb"(*) that teflon was developed during world war 2. A sealant was >needed for the tubing in which uranium hexafluoride passed as it was >gradually enriched by difussion. UF6 is very corrosive, and some very >inert yet flexible material was needed for the seals. I think you're both right. Teflon was actually discovered by accident before WWII. From what I've heard, they had some chemical (I assume it was tetrafluoroethylene) in a tank and but the valve got gummed up. Cutting it open revealed that it had polymerized. The material was useful for seals, but it had a major problem for, say the linings of vessels: it wouldn't stick to metal. What the space program did was to find a way to get it to stick. Thus we had no-stick frypans on the market in the late '60s. --- Dan Tilque -- dant@techbook.com ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 1 May 1993 14:36:19 GMT From: "Richard A. Schumacher" Subject: temperature of the dark sky Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space In <1993Apr30.163959.19715@head-cfa.harvard.edu> willner@head-cfa.harvard.edu (Steve Willner) writes: >cooked if that were the case. In any event, the energy density of >starlight comes out about the same as that of the microwave >background, and I believe that to be correct.) Yeah, what about that? Is this just a weird coincidence? (And let's not see all the same hands this time, TVF.) ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 512 ------------------------------