Date: Fri, 30 Apr 93 05:00:04 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #499 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Fri, 30 Apr 93 Volume 16 : Issue 499 Today's Topics: Abyss--breathing fluids Astro FTP list - April issue Astro FTP list - notes Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. Gamma Ray Bursters. Where are they? HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days Internet resources (2 msgs) I want that Billion Long term Human Missions (2 msgs) Political banner in space Single Launch Space Station Space surveillance: what I really meant temperature of the dark sky (3 msgs) Vandalizing the sky. (2 msgs) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 27 Apr 93 16:59:24 GMT From: Dave Kappl Subject: Abyss--breathing fluids Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1r8esd$lrh@agate.berkeley.edu> isaackuo@skippy.berkeley.edu wrote: > Are breathable liquids possible? > > I remember seeing an old Nova or The Nature of Things where this idea was > touched upon (it might have been some other TV show). If nothing else, I know > such liquids ARE possible because... > > They showed a large glass full of this liquid, and put a white mouse (rat?) in > it. Since the liquid was not dense, the mouse would float, so it was held down > by tongs clutching its tail. The thing struggled quite a bit, but it was > certainly held down long enough so that it was breathing the liquid. It never > did slow down in its frantic attempts to swim to the top. > > Now, this may not have been the most humane of demonstrations, but it certainly > shows breathable liquids can be made. > -- > *Isaac Kuo (isaackuo@math.berkeley.edu) * ___ > * * _____/_o_\_____ > * Twinkle, twinkle, little .sig, *(==(/_______\)==) > * Keep it less than 5 lines big. * \==\/ \/==/ This was on "That's Incredible" several years ago. The volume of liquid the rat had to breath was considerably smaller than what a human would have to breath, so maybe it is possible for a rat but not a human. DaveTheRave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:40:59 GMT From: M{kel{ Veikko Subject: Astro FTP list - April issue Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space # # A S T R O - F T P L I S T # Updated 28.04.1993 # # This is a short description of anonymous-ftp file servers containing # astronomy and space research related material. I have included only those # servers where there are special subdirectories for astro stuff or much # material included into a general directories. This list is not a complete # data set of possible places, so I would be very happy of all kind of notices # and information depending on this listing. # # The newest version of this file is available via anonymous-ftp as: # # nic.funet.fi:/pub/astro/general/astroftp.txt # # There are also many mirror (copy) archives for simtel-20.army.mil (PC) and # sumex-aim.stanford.edu (Mac) which are not included into this list. Only some # of mirroring sites are listed. # # # Veikko Makela # Veikko.Makela@Helsinki.FI # *Computing Centre of Univ. Helsinki* # *Ursa Astronomical Association* # Server, IP # Contents # Directories ames.arc.nasa.gov Spacecraf data and news,images,NASA data, 128.102.18.3 Spacelink texts,VICAR software,FAQ /pub/SPACE arp.anu.edu.au Images 130.56.4.90 /pub/images/nasa atari.archive.umich.edu Atari 141.211.164.8 /atari/applications/astronomy archive.afit.af.mil Satellite software,documents,elements 129.92.1.66 /pub/space baboon.cv.nrao.edu AIPS document and patches,radioastronomy 192.33.115.103 image processing,FITS test images /pub/aips c.scs.uiuc.edu ROSAT,Starchart(PC) 128.174.90.3 /pub ccu1.aukuni.ac.nz PC 130.216.1.5 /msdos/astronomy (*) overseas connections refused chara.gsu.edu Electronical Journal of ASA, Journal of 131.96.5.10 ASA, SAC news / explorer.arc.nasa.gov Magellan, Viking and Voyager CDROMs 128.102.32.18 /cdrom export.lcs.mit.edu XEphem distribution 18.24.0.12 /contrib/xephem epona.physics.ucg.ie Some software, predictions, images, 140.203.1.3 FITS info, miscellaneous /pub/astro /pub/space /pub/fits fits.cv.nrao.edu FITS documents, OS support, sample data, 192.33.115.8 test files, sci.astro.fits archive /FITS ftp.cicb.fr Images 129.20.128.27 /pub/Images/ASTRO ftp.cco.caltech.edu Astronomy magazine index 1991 131.215.48.200 /pub/misc ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de PC,Amiga,Mac,Unix,images,general 130.149.17.7 /pub/astro ftp.funet.fi PC,Mac,CP/M,Atari,Amiga,databases,Unix, 128.214.6.100 HP48,OS/2,texts,News,solar reports,images, /pub/astro Satellite elements,FAQ ftp.uni-kl.de iauc,Vista image reduction,asteroids 131.246.9.95 /pub/astro garbo.uwasa.fi PC 128.214.87.1 /pc/astronomy gipsy.vmars.tuwien.ac.at images 128.130.39.16 /pub/spacegifs hanauma.stanford.edu Unix, satellite program, images 36.51.0.16 /pub/astro /pub/astropix hysky1.stmarys.ca ECU distribution 140.184.1.1 /pcstuff idlastro.gsfc.nasa.gov IDL routines 128.183.57.82 / iraf.noao.edu IRAF Software 140.252.1.1 /iraf julius.cs.qub.ac.uk Space Digest 143.117.5.6 /pub/SpaceDigestArchive rata.vuw.ac.nz Astrophysical software 130.195.2.11 /pub/astrophys kilroy.jpl.nasa.gov Satellite elements,spacecraft info 128.149.1.165 /pub/space ns3.hq.eso.org Test images, Standards 134.171.11.4 /pub/testimages /pub/standards nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov HST,IUE,Astro-1,NSSDCA info,Spacewarn, 128.183.36.23 FITS standard / plaza.aarnet.edu.au images,docs,Magellan 139.130.4.6 /graphics/graphics/astro /magellan pomona.claremont.edu Yale Bright Star Catalog 134.173.4.160 /YALE_BSC pubinfo.jpl.nasa.gov JPL news, status reports, images 128.149.6.2 / ra.nrl.navy.mil Mac 128.60.0.21 /MacSciTech/astro rascal.ics.utexas.edu Mac 128.83.138.20 /mac rigel.acs.oakland.edu PC 141.210.10.117 /pub/msdos/astronomy rusmv1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de Atari 129.69.1.12 /soft/atari/applications/astronomy simtel20.army.mil PC,CP/M 192.88.110.20 /msdos/educ /cpm sol.deakin.oz.au garbo.uwasa.fi c. 128.184.1.1 /pub/PC/chyde/astronomy solbourne.solbourne.com some PC programs 141.138.2.2 /pub/rp/as-is/astro stardent.arc.nasa.gov Martian map 128.102.21.44 /pub stsci.edu HSTMap(Mac),HST info 130.167.1.2 /Software sumex.stanford.edu Mac 36.44.0.6 /info-mac/app sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de PC,misc 129.206.100.126 /pub/msdos/astronomy techreports.larc.nasa.gov NASA Langley technical reports 128.155.3.58 /pub/techreports/larc tetra.gsfc.nasa.gov FITSIO subroutines 128.183.8.77 /pub unbmvs1.csd.unb.ca Space geodesy,solar activity info 131.202.1.2 pub.canspace vmd.cso.uiuc.edu Weather satellite images 128.174.5.98 /wx world.std.com PC; source codes 192.74.137.5 /pub/astronomy xi.uleth.ca Solar reports,auroral activity forecast 142.66.3.29 maps,solar images,x-ray plot,coronal /pub/solar emission plots # Some abbreviations: # # c = copy (mirror) of other archive # ----- # My other e-communication projects: # * E-mail contact addresses of interest groups in amateur astronomy # * European astronomy and space-related bulletin boards # * E-mail catalogue of Finnish amateur astronomers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:37:39 GMT From: M{kel{ Veikko Subject: Astro FTP list - notes Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space Hello, All! I apologize, I haven't published my astro FTP list since March. Now I haven't tested all the sites included into the list. I would notified all the people, you have stored some older issues of my, there are now lots of changes. Many sites have gone away: They either do not exist any more or all the astro stuff have removed. The job keep this list is very hard, so all the notes and informat- ion of changes, new sites, new contents etc. is welcome. I would thank all the net people who give me information for the newest version. regards, Veikko Makela Computing Centre Univ. of Helsinki F I N L A N D ------------------------------ Date: 28 Apr 1993 06:25:48 GMT From: Ethan Bradford Subject: Gamma Ray Bursters. WHere are they. Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro In article <1993Apr26.155915.8998@desire.wright.edu> jbatka@desire.wright.edu writes: I assume that can only be guessed at by the assumed energy of the event and the 1/r^2 law. So, if the 1/r^2 law is incorrect (assume some unknown material [dark matter??] inhibits Gamma Ray propagation), could it be possible that we are actually seeing much less energetic events happening much closer to us? The even distribution could be caused by the characteristic propagation distance of gamma rays being shorter then 1/2 the thickness of the disk of the galaxy. I believe the problem with this theory is that we see gamma-ray sources at that energy range and their energy doesn't seem to be significantly absorbed. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 01:21:00 GMT From: David Ward Subject: Gamma Ray Bursters. Where are they? Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro In article <1993Apr26.141114.19777@midway.uchicago.edu>, pef1@midway.uchicago.edu writes... >BATSE, by having 8 detectors of its own, can do its own location determination, >but only to within about 3 degrees (would someone at GSFC, like David, like >to comment on the current state of location determination?). Having inde- >pendent sightings by other detectors helps drive down the uncertainty. > Well, I'll avoid your question for now (got some learnin' to do) with a promise to come back with more info when I can find it. I _do_ know that BATSE is the primary instrument in the development of the all-sky map of long-term sources. Given that fact, and the spacecraft attitude knowledge of approx. 2 arcmin, we might be able to figure out how well BATSE can determine the location (rotational) of a Gamma Ray burster from knowledge of the all-sky map's accuracy. PR material for the other three instruments give accuracies on the order of "fractions of a degree", if that's any help. Speaking of GRO, the net-world probably was happy to see that the preps for orbit adjust appear to be going well. Our branch guy who's helping out says that things have gone smoothly with the iso-valve preps and the burns will take place in mid-June. Anyway, I'm off to find out more. 'Be back when I get some info. David W. @ GSFC "I don't know nuthin' 'bout measurin' no Gamma Rays" _Gone with the Wind_, paraphrased ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 14:16:06 GMT From: Brian Day Subject: HST Servicing Mission Scheduled for 11 Days Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,sci.astro rdouglas@stsci.edu (Rob Douglas) writes: >[...] But try to land a shuttle with that big huge telescope in the >back and you could have problems. The shuttle just isn't designed to land >with that much weight in the payload. Is HST really _that_ much heavier than a Spacelab ??? bd -- Brian Day bday@lambda.msfc.nasa.gov New Technology, Inc. (205) 461-4584 Mission Software Development Division Opinions are my own - ------------------------------ Date: Thu 29 Apr 93 14:08:50-EST From: STK1203@VAX003.STOCKTON.EDU Subject: Internet resources exit ------------------------------ Date: Thu 29 Apr 93 14:19:24-EST From: STK1203@VAX003.STOCKTON.EDU Subject: Internet resources I am taking a course entitled "Exploring Science Using Internet". For our final project, we are to find a compendium of Internet resources dealing with a science-related topic. I chose Astronomy. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone out there knew of any interesting resources on Internet that provide information on Astronomy, space, NASA, or anything like that. THANKS! KEITH MALINOWSKI STK1203@VAX003.Stockton.EDU P.O. Box 2472 Stockton State College Pomona, New Jersey 08240 ------------------------------ Date: 28 Apr 1993 15:17:35 GMT From: Doug Mohney Subject: I want that Billion Newsgroups: sci.space In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >>... C'mon. Allen is telling us how cheap we can get improved this >>or that... > >Sure, you can get a heavylift launcher fairly cheap if you do it privately >rather than as a gummint project. But we're still talking about something >that will cost nine digits per launch, unless you can guarantee a large >market to justify volume production. "Let's make a deal!" If you're going to put up a billion, I'd want to budget the whole sheebang for $450-600 million. If I have that much money to throw around in the first place, you betcha I'm going to sign a contract committing to volume production... Software engineering? That's like military intelligence, isn't it? -- > SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU < -- ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 1993 20:17:21 -0700 From: Ken Hayashida Subject: Long term Human Missions Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,sci.astro Mike Adams suggested discussions on long-term effects of spaceflight to the human being. I love this topic, as some of you regulars know. So, having seen Henry's encouraging statement about starting to talk about it; I shall. I feel that we as a community of people have unique resources to deliver to the world a comprehensive book which can elaborate on the utility of spaceflight to fields which are as divergent as medical intensive care, agriculture, environmental protection, and probably more. I do not believe that the general public understands the impact of spaceflight on the whole of society. In the absence of such knowledge, we see dwindling support of the world's space effort. I believe that we as a group have the responsibility to not only communicate amongst ourselves, but also with others through print media. A well-orchestrated and technically oriented analysis of life science variables required to support long-duration spaceflight (like long expenditions to the moon or Mars) would be entertaining and educational to the general public. The objective of such an effort would be to compile resources and publications from accepted scientific and technical journals which would address each major life science area. In addition, ideas for further research and development could be put forward for the general public to ponder...allowing the general public to take part in the excitement of exploration. Individuals interested should be willing to devote an hour per week to running literature searches and finding journal articles. In addition, we need to obtain the assistance of personnel from within the halls of NASA and industry. I have appreciated the positive responses to date and I am personally eager to start this project. Perhaps we could start with debate regarding how best to grade the viability of various technologies for application to spaceflight. ken ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 13:31:01 GMT From: Robert Kaye Subject: Long term Human Missions Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle,sci.astro Ken Hayashida (khayash@hsc.usc.edu) wrote: : Mike Adams suggested discussions on long-term effects of spaceflight : to the human being. I love this topic, as some of you regulars know. : So, having seen Henry's encouraging statement about starting to talk : about it; I shall. : I feel that we as a community of people have unique resources : to deliver to the world a comprehensive book which can elaborate : on the utility of spaceflight to fields which are as divergent : as medical intensive care, agriculture, environmental protection, and : probably more. I do not believe that the general public understands : the impact of spaceflight on the whole of society. In the absence : of such knowledge, we see dwindling support of the world's space effort. Just a few contributions from the space program to "regular" society: 1. Calculators 2. Teflon (So your eggs don't stick in the pan) 3. Pacemakers (Kept my grandfather alive from 1976 until 1988) p.s. To all the regular contributors to sci.space.news and sci.space.shuttle, thanks for all your hard work keeping us informed as to the doings down in NASA and other space-type agencies. I don't have much time to read USENET, but I ALWAYS read these two groups.... -- Robert E. Kaye Asst. Sys Admin Surgical Information Systems Rush-Presbyterian-St. Luke's Medical Center Chicago, IL USA Internet: rek@siss81.rpslmc.edu Voice: (312) 942-5891 FAX: (312) 942-4228 _____ _____ / ^ ^ \ / _ _ \ Support your local Community Theater Groups...! | o o | | o o | | \_/ | | /-\ | St. Marcellene's Church in Schaumburg Il. presents: \___/ \___/ "Meet Me in St. Louis" opening April 30th. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 1993 17:53:38 GMT From: Jeff Bytof - SIO Subject: Political banner in space Newsgroups: sci.space I propose that PepsiCo, Mcdonalds and other companies could put into orbit banners that have timely political messages, such as, "Stop the slaughter in Bosnia!" , etc. -rabjab ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Apr 93 21:44 GMT From: Karl Dishaw <0004244402@mcimail.com> Subject: Single Launch Space Station Andy Cohen writes: >the Single Launch Core Station concept. A Shuttle external tank and solid >rocket boosters would be used to launch the station into orbit. Shuttle >main engines would be mounted to the tail of the station module for launch >and jettisoned after ET separation. Why jettison the SSMEs? Why not hold on to them and have a shuttle bring them down to use as spares? Karl sold my soul to Uncle Sam . . . now marked down for resale. ------------------------------ Date: 27 Apr 93 17:17:25 PST From: thomsonal@cpva.saic.com Subject: Space surveillance: what I really meant Newsgroups: sci.space Thanks to the people who have answered here and in email to my question about which countries engage in space surveillance. Unfortunately, I apparently didn't make the meaning of the message clear, since most replies have addressed satellite reconnaissance, rather than space surveillance What I meant was _not_ which countries use satellites to look at the Earth (satellite reconnaissance) , but _was_ which countries have programs to detect and track (i.e., determine the orbital elements of) satellites as they pass overhead (space surveillance). The US uses missile-defense radars, supplemented by a fascinating quasi-radar operated by the Navy, to do this for satellites in LEO, and electrooptical systems for objects at altitudes above 5,000 km or so. The FEE, I understand, does much the same thing. Amateur satellite observers use eyeballs, binoculars, stopwatches and PCs for objects out to around 1500 km, enabling them to keep track of satellites for which, ah, official element sets aren't available. See the fascinating books by Desmond King-Hele for details, as well as the files in the molczan directory on kilroy.jpl.nasa.gov. The material posted in my previous message suggests that Japan engages in optical and radar space surveillance to a modest degree, and it may be that other countries do also. Which was the question I meant to ask: who are they, how do they do it, and why do they do it? Allen Thomson SAIC McLean, VA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, yes: I don't speak for SAIC. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 04:05:40 GMT From: Tom Van Flandern Subject: temperature of the dark sky Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > Does anyone have a reference (something I can look up, not just your own > recollections -- I have a few of those myself) on the temperature of the > (night) sky as seen from space? You'll find that in Allen, C.W., "Astrophysical Quantities", Athlone Press, Dover, NH, 3rd edition, pp. 268-269 (1973). To the accuracy it can be calculated (see specific references in Allen about how it is calculated), the temperature is 3 degrees K. Lots of people have remarked on this temperature. The first may have been in Eddington's book, "Internal Constitution of Stars", Ch. 13 (1926; reprinted 1986), where he gives the "temperature of space" as 3 degrees. The source of this temperature is the radiation of starlight. > My dim recollection is that the net effective temperature is > substantially higher than that of the MBR, once you figure in things like > stars and the zodiacal light, but I'd like numbers. To the accuracy of measurement, it's the same temperature. Some of us think this may not be a coincidence. -|Tom|- -- Tom Van Flandern / Washington, DC / metares@well.sf.ca.us Meta Research was founded to foster research into ideas not otherwise supported because they conflict with mainstream theories in Astronomy. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 27 Apr 93 20:29:17 PDT From: Erik Max Francis Subject: temperature of the dark sky Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > Does anyone have a reference (something I can look up, not just your own > recollections -- I have a few of those myself) on the temperature of the > (night) sky as seen from space? The temperature of intergalactic space (or intercluster or intersupercluster space) would be very, very close to the microwave background temperature, 2.73 kelvins. I recall that in interstellar space in our neighborhood of the galaxy it's something like 4 K. Is that what you were looking for? Erik Max Francis, &tSftDotIotE ...!apple!uuwest!max max@west.darkside.com __ USMail: 1070 Oakmont Dr. #1 San Jose, CA 95117 ICBM: 37 20 N 121 53 W / \ If you like strategic games of interstellar conquest, ask about UNIVERSE! \__/ -)(- Omnia quia sunt, lumina sunt. All things that are, are lights. -)(- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 00:22:14 GMT From: Stupendous Man Subject: temperature of the dark sky Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space (Henry Spencer) writes: > Does anyone have a reference (something I can look up, not just your own > recollections -- I have a few of those myself) on the temperature of the > (night) sky as seen from space? > > Note, I am *not* talking about the temperature of the Microwave Background > Radiation. There are more things in the sky than just the MBR; what I'm > after is total blackbody temperature -- what a thermal radiator would see, > disregarding (or shielding against) the Sun and nearby large warm objects. Henry, if I read you correctly, you may be asking "If I put a blackbody in interstellar space ('disregarding the Sun and nearby large warm objects'), what termperature will it reach in thermal equilibrium with the ambient radiation field?" If that's the case, let me point out that interstellar dust and molecules provide many instances of things that are, well, not-too-far from being blackbodies. Many different observations, including IRAS and COBE, have determined that interstellar dust grain temperatures can range from 40K to 150K. You might look in a conference proceedings "Interstellar Processes", ed. D. J. Hollenbach and H. A. Thronson, Jr., published in 1987. Try the articles by Tielens et al., Seab, and Black. Inside the disk of the galaxy, the temperature varies quite a bit from place to place (how close are you to the nearest OB association, I would guess). Outside the galaxy, of course, things aren't so varied. I hope this is what you were looking for.... -- ----- Michael Richmond "This is the heart that broke my finger." richmond@astro.princeton.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 93 09:34:30 BST From: Greg Stewart-Nicholls Subject: Vandalizing the sky. Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space In George F. Krumins writes: >According to this reasoning there are no rights, at least none that I can think >of.... > You've got it. What you regard as a right, someone else will regard as a privilege. Followups to some generic ethics and morality newsgroup .... ----------------------------------------------------------------- Greg Nicholls ... : Vidi nicho@vnet.ibm.com or : Vici nicho@olympus.demon.co.uk : Veni ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1993 12:48:13 GMT From: Doug Loss Subject: Vandalizing the sky. Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space In article <1993Apr27.174622.1@stsci.edu> hathaway@stsci.edu writes: >In article , loss@fs7.ECE.CMU.EDU (Doug Loss) writes: >> I didn't want to quote all the stuff that's been said recently, I >> just wanted to add a point. >> >.. >> then enforces those rights for them. Here in the U.S., the constitution >> provides a "Bill of Rights" from which most if not all legal rights are >> considered to derive. I'm sure that most other countries have > >These seem hardly like the groups to discuss this in, but HUH??? >All legitimate power to enforce these rights derives from the consent >of the governed, not from no steenkin' piece of paper. > We don't disagree on this. All I said was that a right is whatever you or somebody acting for you can enforce. The Bill of Rights didn't come into effect until it was ratified by the states (and indirectly, the people); from that point it defined legal rights. "Common law" rights are vague and situational; that's why the people insisted on a Bill of Rights in the Constitution, spelling out exactly what they demanded from the government. Legitimate or illegitimate, power is power. That's why the federal government can force states to grant their citizens rights they don't wish to: In a slugging match, the feds win. Period. And you're right, this doesn't belong in sci.space. I've said my peace. No more frome me on rights (at least not here). >Most gracious regards, >WHH Doug Loss loss@husky.bloomu.edu ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 499 ------------------------------