Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 05:09:09 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #452 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Mon, 12 Apr 93 Volume 16 : Issue 452 Today's Topics: Budget Astronaut (was: Idle Question) Civilian use of Russian missiles Hey, it's over (was Re: International Space Year Compendium) Lockheeds Bus1 as a science platform. Louisiana ASteroid resources conference. New aircraft TU-154M for leasing, set spare parts. (2 msgs) Question- Why is SSTO Single Stage Reasons for a Biosphere for Space SN1993J Upcoming event Venus Lander for Venus Conditions. Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 05:03:27 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Budget Astronaut (was: Idle Question) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1q7urp$t5c@access.digex.net> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: >The gemini suit must have been tolerable, i think on emission >went 2 weeks, but were they in suits the whole time? No, for the long missions they took the suits off. > Oh while we are on the suit question? Why do the shuttle >astronauts wear a pressure suit at launch, then switch to the EVA >suits? Are the EVA suits too bulky... The EVA suits are heavy and require pre-breathing and other preparation, and the shuttle typically only carries 2-3 of them. >... If they were in orbit, >and took an emergency depress, would they re-don the pressure suits >and then make an emergency de-orbit.(Aassuming the bird is >still landable) There is an emergency oxygen system that is capable of maintaining a breathable atmosphere in the cabin for long enough to come down, even if there is something like a 5cm hole in the wall that nobody tries to plug. -- All work is one man's work. | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology - Kipling | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 04:58:44 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Civilian use of Russian missiles Newsgroups: sci.space In article <734459421.F00001@permanet.org> Mark.Prado@f349.n109.z1.permanet.org (Mark Prado) writes: >The idea is that instead of destroying many of these missiles, as >we are currently planning to do, we could instead launch things >into orbit... The main reason those treaties tend to exclude space launches as an acceptable way of "destroying" the missiles is the desire to see those missiles *gone* within a specific and fairly short period of time. It is very difficult to establish that a missile sitting in a warehouse waiting for a satellite to launch is *not* capable of being re-armed and stuffed back down a silo on a few hours' notice. >...perhaps in some great cooperative venture which would >make some money (stimulate both economies and cooperation). Bear in mind that this will have to be carefully designed if it is not to harm some sectors of both economies (the ones that are trying to sell commercial space launches). It will have to be something that was *not* already scheduled for launch. -- All work is one man's work. | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology - Kipling | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 00:48:01 -0500 From: Mark Prado Subject: Hey, it's over (was Re: International Space Year Compendium) Newsgroups: sci.space > > Newsgroups: alt.education.distance,sci.edu, > k12.ed.science> Subject: REPOST: Space Resources > Compendium> > > Date: 1 Apr 93 21:08:32 GMT > > celebration for the 1992 International Year of Space. > > As a 1 April 1993 repost of a 15 January 1993 message, this > seems sadly out of date. Another April Fool. October, 1992, was the 500th anniversary of Columbus' discovery of America. Opportunity wasted. (It's at least as much my fault as yours'.) > highway stretches endlessly ahead, featuring lowered expectations, > squabbles over ever-shrinking space budgets, and lies told to children > about their promising careers in asteroid mining and Moon farming. One would be best inclined to not look at NASA or DoD for leadership in that direction. Maybe a leader, but not NASA or DoD. Not only do those two shrinking pies have lots of backstabing competing special interests, but they are also simply government-related in nature. Word to the wise: As Dr. Andrew Cutler first told me, the way to plan for a life of non-success is to rely on government to implement a large scale project; and the best thing government could possible do is offer a bottom line reward to the PURELY private sector for a RESULT. If President Clinton would make a standing offer that the first company to bring back 100 tons of asteroidal material get a 5 billion award, the taxpayer would get the best RESULTS for their money. Having spent a couple of years in government contracting (in and around SDIO) (after GS service itself), followed by 6 years self-employed, I can see the difference clear as day. Unfortunately, most NASA bureaucrats who I know would not be hired by a successful 100% private company after an interview. Unfortunately, civilization (or possibly our species) will not be healthy if a strain of the AIDS virus evolves/mutates into something that reproduces more quickly, and becomes as cummunicable as the common cold/flu... and it may be too late for space settlement in our lifetime (or for sending us off to a cryogenic future in a shadow in space...) There's both the negative and the positive sides to this. It's up to _us_ to lead at this point in our lives. What better time is there? (Heavy, huh?) * Origin: Just send it to bill.clinton@permanet.org (1:109/349.2) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 03:33:00 GMT From: nsmca@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU Subject: Lockheeds Bus1 as a science platform. Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1q8088$1ef@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: > > Apparently, lockheed is proposing to build SSF using Bus1 > a declassified space craft uniform bus, about 13 ft by 9 ft > in diameter, mildly tablet shaped. it is pre-wired for > power, comms, etc and is shuttle rated. > > My question, would this make a good platform for > planetary missions. would Galileo or MO type missions > profit from using this standard bus, It does seem > larger then a Mariner, and close in size to galileo. > > Granted for outer planets missions, youd toss the solar arrays > for RTG's, but does anyone have any comment? > > pat I know its about time someone did something, other than talk.. Go for it Lockheed. I think it might work.. Atleast to get others to get off there backsides and do something.. Seems like the current administration and NASA and such seem to be like a bunch of monkey's sittign around talking about the price of bannanas.. When the tree is burning. Michael Adams NSMCA@ACAD@.ALASKA.EDU I'm not high, just jacked ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1993 00:31:00 -0500 From: Mark Prado Subject: Louisiana ASteroid resources conference. Newsgroups: sci.space > March 29 and 30, USL held with support from SDIO and DOE, > a conference on Resource extraction from Near Earth Asteroids. > > Did anyone attend? I'd be interested in the final report. Having done direct support for SDIO in the Pentagon for two years in the mid-1980's and having pushed near-Earth asteroidal materials utilization (though out of the loop for 5 years now), I'd be most interested in seeing what DoD was up to. In any case, the best bet is an open forum. For anyone new to this topic, I have "Briefs" on the issues which are ftpmail requestable from permanet.org. First, send a message as follows (text after "------"): To: ftpmail@permanet.org ------------- index The requestor will get back a file listing all our files. (Many will be State Dept. stuff unrelated to space development, but there will be a "PERMANENT" subsection with materials on the above topic.) Thereafter, further ftpmail messages can request files, e.g., get SBIR.txt get products.txt get ext-tank.txt [etc.] (Hey, it's a DOS box, unlike the Unix machine of the good man Nick Szabo. No path or case-sensitive stuff needed with my own home-brewed DOS communications software. Not cryptic at all.) I run a few listserv mailing lists from my PC. If anyone is interested in a listserv on this topic, then, well, hmmm, subscribe to a mailing list called LaNEAR (Lunar and Near Earth Asteroidal Materials) which I'll create here before I save this message ... DONE! (If you've never subscribed to a ListServ newsletter, then merely send a message to help@permanet.org > From: prb@access.digex.com (Pat) > Organization: Express Access Online Communications, > Greenbelt MD USA You're a local call for me in Reston, VA. What's your voice #? Mine is 703-715-8473. ------------------------------------------------------------- P.E.R.M.A.N.E.N.T. Program to Employ Resources of the Moon and Asteroids Near Earth in the Near Term Send a message to info@permanet.org ^ (one N) -------------------------------------------------------------- * Origin: a politically correct native Arkansan :-) (1:109/349.2) ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 02:15:02 GMT From: "gozdz,antoni s" Subject: New aircraft TU-154M for leasing, set spare parts. Newsgroups: misc.forsale,misc.invest,misc.jobs.contract,rec.aviation,sci.space In article edward@commed.msk.su writes: >Category: Offers to leasing >Headline: New Aircraft TU-154M > >New Aircraft TU 154M with a standart set of spare parts for Teasing >Factory Number 92A935^ State Registration Wing Marking RA85753, >produced in November, 1992, situated in Blagovechensk. Specification: >seats (passengers) - 166;take-off and landing distanse-2500 m; Range >fuel reserve:payload(18tons)- 3400 km, payload (12tons) - 5200 km. >Equipment: long-rage navigation system A-723 "KVITOK", operating in >systems of "OMEGA" and "LORAN-C". > > Tel: (095) 973-30-64 Fax (095) 973-36-41 > City: Moscow Country: Russia > E-mail -> Relcom root@commed.msk.su >-- > > > DIRECTOR Shaxaliev Edward Agabalaevich > Fax (095) 973-36-41 Tel: 973-30-64 278-54-12 > E-mail Relcom edward@commed.msk.su > > > Mr. Director Agabalaevich: No bombs included?! what a rip-off... I'll pass this one. --T. BTW, are these guys out of their [....] minds, or was our propaganda so effective that they believe some netters could actually buy such stuff and land in their driveway? Too much soda pop, too quick... ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 93 07:09:27 GMT From: Larion Tyshler Subject: New aircraft TU-154M for leasing, set spare parts. Newsgroups: misc.forsale,misc.invest,misc.jobs.contract,rec.aviation,sci.space In article <1993Apr12.021502.27778@porthos.cc.bellcore.com> tony2@prefect.cc.bellcore.com (gozdz,antoni s) writes: >In article edward@commed.msk.su writes: >>Category: Offers to leasing >>Headline: New Aircraft TU-154M >> >>New Aircraft TU 154M with a standart set of spare parts for Teasing >>Factory Number 92A935^ State Registration Wing Marking RA85753, >>produced in November, 1992, situated in Blagovechensk. Specification: >>seats (passengers) - 166;take-off and landing distanse-2500 m; Range >>fuel reserve:payload(18tons)- 3400 km, payload (12tons) - 5200 km. >>Equipment: long-rage navigation system A-723 "KVITOK", operating in >>systems of "OMEGA" and "LORAN-C". >> >> Tel: (095) 973-30-64 Fax (095) 973-36-41 >> City: Moscow Country: Russia >> E-mail -> Relcom root@commed.msk.su >>-- >> >> >> DIRECTOR Shaxaliev Edward Agabalaevich >> Fax (095) 973-36-41 Tel: 973-30-64 278-54-12 >> E-mail Relcom edward@commed.msk.su >> >> >> > >Mr. Director Agabalaevich: > >No bombs included?! what a rip-off... I'll pass this one. > >--T. > >BTW, are these guys out of their [....] minds, or was >our propaganda so effective that they believe some >netters could actually buy such stuff and land in >their driveway? Too much soda pop, too quick... You *WANT* bombs? Just ask! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 03:45:48 GMT From: "Phil G. Fraering" Subject: Question- Why is SSTO Single Stage Newsgroups: sci.space jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) writes: >Bruce_Dunn@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Dunn) writes: ... >>The Voyager >>aircraft, which went around the world non-stop, was more or less the aircraft >>equivalent of an SSTO; something like 80 or 90% of the takeoff mass was fuel, >>and its payload - two people- was tiny (I don't have the actual numbers >>handy). While it worked, a two stage system (or inflight refueling, which is >>in effect a two stage system), might be much more cost effective for airplane >>trips of this length. >As you pointed out, the reason we are trying SSTO technology is similar to the >reasons for flying Voyager (the aircraft). The technology seems to be >available. If it really does work, it _will_ be better than a multiple stage >rocket, so it makes sense to try and build one. Even if the DC project works, >multi stage rockets wouldn't stop flying for at least a decade or two, but >eventually they would. Of course, there is much more demand for a cheap >vehicle that can fly to orbit than there is for a vehicle that can fly non-stop >around the world. But there does seem to be a great demand for high-altitude drones with flight characteristics like Voyager (i.e. stay up for a week or so; relatively high lift at low speeds, etc...). If I'm not mistaken all of these things are one stage; I'm sure most of them are. -- Phil Fraering |"Seems like every day we find out all sorts of stuff. pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|Like how the ancient Mayans had televison." Repo Man ------------------------------ From: nsmca@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU Subject: Reasons for a Biosphere for Space Newsgroups: sci.space Nntp-Posting-Host: acad3.alaska.edu Organization: University of Alaska Fairbanks Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 03:25:07 GMT Source-Info: Sender is really news@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Source-Info: Sender is really isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU A biosphere as for space research is not to recreate a "real" earth ecosystem, but one that will work in space.. Namely for long term space voyages, to allow for food, mental stability (Ask an soldier about eating MREs for more than a week, and see how excited they are about it.. MREs for a week, please don't get me sick), also humasn do better with green, brown and color around them.. Also for air and such.. Recycling is the way to go and a space going biospher/eco-system is the way to recycle things.. Such as human manure and such.. == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ------------------------------ Date: 11 Apr 1993 23:00:30 GMT From: Aaron Ray Clements Subject: SN1993J Newsgroups: sci.space Just out of curiosity, does anyone have any good hard data on the supernova? We've been observing it here with a 14" Celestron and can make it out, but the smog in the LA area kind of makes observing difficult. Just curious as to relative magnitude, etc. thanks aaron arc@cco.caltech.edu ------------------------------ Date: 11 Apr 93 12:26:58 From: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org Subject: Upcoming event Newsgroups: sci.space The San Diego L-5 Society announces a SPECIAL EVENT. - A Tribute to Robert C. Truax; Space Rocketry Pioneer With Special Guest: David Brin; Noted Science Fiction Author. Tuesday, April 27, 7:30pm (Dinner served at 8:00pm) At the Raintree Restaurant, 755 Raintree Drive, Carlsbad, CA (Poinsettia Exit, I-5 Freeway) - Robert Truax has had a lasting impact on America's space activities. Since 1937, he has been involved with the development of JATO, LARK, X-1, X-15, Regulus, Polaris, Trident, Thor, Mercury, Skycycle, and Sea Dragon. - His current work is with reusable rockets designed for lowest cost over a ten year life; a sensible option to the current design philosophy of throwaway rockets. - Tickets are available to the event for $25.00 (regular seating) or $50.00 (seating at head table with special guests). - Send your check to San Diego L-5, P.O. Box 4636, San Diego, CA 92164 (Please mention Vegetarian cuisine, if desired). Call 619/295-3690 for more information. --- Maximus 2.01wb ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 12 Apr 1993 03:28:15 GMT From: nsmca@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU Subject: Venus Lander for Venus Conditions. Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1q801j$16h@access.digex.net>, prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: > > it is probably easier to make the skin of the lander, not reactive. > > Diamond or teflon coatings. that sort of thing. > > pat Well the outer skin can be reactive. Does not mean the inner skin has to be.. Like how tank armor works. I know its a jump in logic.. So I have wierd jumps. Michael Adams NSMCA@ACAD@.ALASKA.EDU I'm not high, just jacked ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 452 ------------------------------