Date: Fri, 9 Apr 93 05:57:06 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #444 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Fri, 9 Apr 93 Volume 16 : Issue 444 Today's Topics: Abyss: breathing fluids Atlas revisited Biosphere II Biosphere Organization Non-Profit. Blow up space station, easy way to do it. Degrees vs. experience GSFC Mission Updates - April 1993 Hoosier Pi Phight (was Re: All Kinds of Stuff) Inflatible Space Work Area for Construction. Michael Adam's posts Plans, absence therof Searching SSM/I data Space Research Spinoffs What Minerals are Cheaper on Mars? than earth? Will the launch be visible from NJ? (2 msgs) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 6 Apr 93 18:47:04 CDT From: Bob Kierski Subject: Abyss: breathing fluids Newsgroups: sci.space I missed the beginning of this discussion so forgive me if this is an obvious question. Is the point behind this discussion, that in theory if a breathing fluid were available, that one could wear a very small mask or helmet, instead of a bulky space suite when doing space walks? -- Have a day, @ @ ( ) bobo ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1993 04:05:16 GMT From: Henry Spencer Subject: Atlas revisited Newsgroups: sci.space In article JDAVIS@GRIFFIN.UGA.EDU (Jerry Davis) writes: >...This my be blatantly obvious to some but, how does the >tank remain pressurized while the engines are consuming fuel? Or, >perhaps they remain rigid enough until the booster is well out of the >atmosphere? The answer is the same for the Atlas as for any other liquid-fuel rocket: you have to add pressurizing gas to the tank as the fuel level goes down. The Atlas is unusual in that it relies on tank pressurization for almost all of its structural strength, but essentially *all* liquid-fuel rockets do pressurize their tanks somewhat to give their pumps a bit of a helping hand, and the pressurization has to be maintained as the tank empties. (In some cases, tank pressure is allowed to drop a bit towards the end to reduce gas requirements.) Incidentally, although the Atlas is an extreme case in that it can't even stand up without its tanks pressurized, it's not uncommon for the internal pressure to be relied on for *part* of the structural strength, since it's going to be there anyway. This is true of the shuttle ET, for example. -- All work is one man's work. | Henry Spencer @ U of Toronto Zoology - Kipling | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: 9 Apr 1993 00:08:07 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Biosphere II Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Apr8.181814.21169@unocal.com> stgprao@st.unocal.COM (Richard Ottolini) writes: |>From article <1q09ud$ji0@access.digex.net>, by prb@access.digex.com (Pat): |>> |>> Why is everyone being so critical of B2? |>> |Would you spend a couple years in a closed space station (or closed seafloor |station for the matter) constructed according to the principles or results |of B2? | |The details are not detailed or reliable enough for verification or refutation. |Many millions of dollars down the toilet. It's Ed Bass'es Millions down the toilet. I have to say, it's his ball of wax. And anyone who would build a space station on the basis of one guys word needs his head examined. But if B2 works, and they sell the data, and engineering specs, then someone else can build a B3, and verify the data or try to maximize the science return. AS I view it, B2 is more an engineering mission then a science mission. God, SSF is one enormous Pork Boondoggle, destroying all of the Space science group, and no-one cares much. Ed Bass goes and spends a few million of his own on a "Theme Park", and Numerous people are losing a kidney about bad science. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1993 04:16:14 GMT From: nsmca@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU Subject: Biosphere Organization Non-Profit. Newsgroups: sci.space #393 ACAD3A::FSRRC Wed 24 Mar 1993 22:16:09 ( 37/ 2360) SPACE COLONIZATION Are you keen? Do you want to go? Are you frustrated with the slow pace? If so ISECCo was created with you in mind! The International Space Exploration and Colonization Company (ISECCo) is a certified non-profit organization doing space oriented research and development. We are concentrating on realistic goals, with dreams that extend far into the 22nd century. To turn dreams into reality we need your support. Opening up the final frontier requires the concerted efforts of all involved. If you are interested: Get Involved. ISECCo's first major project is a closed ecological life support system (commonly known as a biosphere) designed to support 1-2 people. Our "garden in a house" is named Nauvik for the Eskimo word meaning nurturing place. Construction on Nauvik began in 1989. Once complete, we will use it to develop the technology of biologically closed systems, with space applications in mind. A prototype for ecological systems in space, it is the launch pad for human life support. Since founding ISECCo in 1988 we have emphasized developing critical biosphere components such as hydroponics and aquaculture. We continue to gain the experience necessary to build a successful biosphere with these on-going experiments. We are primarily supported by donations of time and money from our members. Our president covers all operating expenses. Since the majority of our labor is volunteer, your donations are spent only on projects, not payroll or overhead. For those who want to direct their money toward specific projects we offer that option. Future funding will be supplemented through venture capital, grants, and companies wishing to operate in space. Space colonies are feasible with today's technology. Tomorrow's technology will make them economically viable. Help us turn today into tomorrow and start mankind on the ultimate migration: to the stars! For more information, to join, or to send a donation, please respond to ISECCo, Department PC-V, P.O. Box 60885, Fairbanks AK 99706. Though not required, a business-sized, self-addressed, stamped envelope will expedite our response. Internet email address nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu or fsrrc@acad3.alaska.edu We have been having problems with email to fsrrc@acad3.alaska.edu and from him, so please include a snailmail address so we can send info to anyone interested via gag, snailmail... Quyanna for any interest in the future... ------------------------------ Date: 7 Apr 93 17:59:21 CDT From: Bob Kierski Subject: Blow up space station, easy way to do it. Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Apr5.184527.1@aurora.alaska.edu> nsmca@aurora.alaska.edu writes: >This might a real wierd idea or maybe not.. Some of the people here were talking about that same idea before we saw your post. So eithere we are wierd too, or maybe it's a good idea... In article <1993Apr7.144426.15921@ke4zv.uucp>, gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman) writes: > Your proposal is somewhat similar to the LLNL balloon station concept. > It is a cheap way to get large pressurized volumes. But most uses of > a space station require more than just a large pressurized volume. > Generally there will be requirements to host experimental equipment > and supply power for that equipment. You need structure for equipment > mountings, and structure for power systems. You need wiring channels. > You need storage lockers, etc. Also you need structure to allow reboost > burns against orbital decay. With a large pressurized volume comes a > large drag area that requires frequent reboosts. Without structures > to hold massive equipment and supplies in place, reboost becomes > difficult and dangerous. An open truss design gives lots of mounting > points without large drag generating surfaces. Most of the things a > space station is good for don't require large pressurized volumes. > Most space experiments want exposure to space conditions. In our discussion, we intended to use the balloon only to reduce the risks involved in building a more structured station inside. The balloon would provide a surface to mount solar panels and communication equipment. Once the "inside" station was finished, the balloon could be "popped" or somehow opend. Our dome (The Metradome in MSP) uses an inflated cover which is reenforced. There is enough strength to support a fairly large number of speakers, cameras, lights and several inches of snow. I don't know what the rate of orbital decay would be for a balloon that size, nor do I know the amount of force a reboost engine would aply to the structure (Can anyone help?) My guess is however that you wouldn't need to make your balloon spherical. If you made it egg shaped, shaped like a football, or like this new Nurf football, you would greatly reduce your drag area. -- Have a day, @ @ ( ) bobo ------------------------------ Date: 8 Apr 1993 23:59:35 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Degrees vs. experience Newsgroups: sci.space In article 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) writes: > >[various people offering opinions on degrees vs. experience WRT economics] > >Economics, OTOH, is all about human behavior, and when laws that affect My grandfather once suggested that a degree in psychology was very important to someone who wished to engage in actual fiscal policy developement. Oh, and for those who are interested. The reason I never got a formal Econ major, was because i needed three german classes. I audited one or two of the advanced econ classes and realized, why struggle through 1.5 years of umlauts for two more classes where I felt i knew as much as the professors. pat ObSpace : The russians have made a formal offer to participate in Mir2, oh i mean space station ed. And pletesk is being upgraded to support Mir2 operations. Apparently, Mir2 will have a highly inclined orbit. 70 degrees or more, and pletesk is more effecient for that then Baikonur. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Apr 1993 23:55 UT From: Ron Baalke Subject: GSFC Mission Updates - April 1993 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro Release No. 93-50 Goddard Public Affairs Status Report April 1993 Highlights: Astro-D Compton Gamma Ray Observatory (Compton) Cosmic Background Explorer (COBE) Extreme Ultraviolet Explorer (EUVE) Hubble Space Telescope (HST) Solar Anomalous and Magnetospheric Particle Explorer (SAMPEX) Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite (UARS) Science Note: SN 1993J Astro-D -- The instruments on the Astro-D spacecraft launched in Japan on February 20, 1993 are being activated. The two Japanese focal plane instruments, the Gas Scintillation Imaging Spectrometers (GISs), were turned on in mid- March. Both GIS counters have been verified as working normally. GSFC's Solid State Imaging Spectrometer (SIS) Charge Coupled Device (CCD) cameras also are being activated. Both camera vent valves have opened and the cameras currently are stabilized around -81 degrees Farenheit (-63 degrees Centigrade). Public Affairs Contact: Michael Finneran (301) 286-5565 Compton Gamma-Ray Observatory -- The first delivery of public Energetic Gamma-Ray Experiment Telescope (EGRET) data into the archive has been made. This data comprises photon lists, exposure histories and maps from the verification period through July 26, 1991. As of March 25, the mean orbital altitude was 233.11 statute miles (359.06 kilometers). Planning and rehearsal simulations for the orbit reboost operations continue. The series of daily orbit reboost burns are planned to begin June 15 and continue for about two weeks. Public Affairs Contact: Michael Finneran (301) 286-5565 Cosmic Background Explorer -- COBE continues to acquire all science and engineering data without any major problems or operational errors. The COBE Operations team is still attempting to firm up contingency plans in the event of a gyro failure during the upcoming eclipse season, which occurs from May through July. Public Affairs Contact: Michael Finneran (301) 286-5565 Extreme Ultraviolet Explorer -- Observations of the planet Jupiter and the stars DELTA-CEN and HD-131156 were planned for the first week in April, followed by a short observation of the moon. The next sky map "gap filling" period is scheduled for April 19 through 25. Public Affairs Contact: Michael Finneran (301) 286-5565 Hubble Space Telescope -- On Wednesday, March 24, the HST spacecraft entered Software Sun Point Safe Mode. The preliminary indication was that the solar array electronics had sensed an erroneous position for a solar array and transmitted this information to the onboard computer, which in turn responded by safing the spacecraft systems. This initial level of safing suspends science operations but retains all vehicle control through the operations flight computer (DF-224). Initial analysis of the telemetry indicated that the safing had been caused by a miscompare between the actual position of the solar arrays and the position indicated by the Solar Array Drive Electronics (SADE) resolver. The most likely cause is believed to be either a failure in the DC power supply or the resolver electronics. The SADE are fully redundant and operations have been switched to the correctly operating side two. Evaluation and analysis is continuing and science operations have been resumed. The number of observations may be reduced by about 20 percent for the next several weeks until flight software safing modes can be modified. Once this is accomplished, normal science operations can resume. In the event of a subsequent failure of side two (SADE2), science observations could still continue by factoring power requirements into the constraints during the planning and scheduling of the observations. Public Affairs Contact: Jim Elliott (301) 286-6256 Solar Anomalous and Magnetospheric Particle Explorer -- SAMPEX acquired all science and engineering data without any significant problems or operational errors. The spacecraft continues to perform well while it is in continuous sunlight. Public Affairs Contact: Michael Finneran (301) 286-5565 Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite -- UARS, launched September 12, 1992, surpassed its 18-month mission success criteria mark. More than 100 scientists participated in a UARS workshop in Virginia Beach, Va., last month, commemorating this occasion. More than 55 studies were presented. The scientific focus of the workshop was high latitude processes affecting ozone in the stratosphere and mesophere although one session highlighted higher altitude phenomena and wind measurements. Many of the talks illustrated new understanding of the development and distributions of important gaseous species impacting ozone, and a newly perceived role of dynamics and transport from high altitudes in the formation and maintenance of the Antarctic "ozone hole." Public Affairs Contact: Allen Kenitzer (301) 286-2806. Science Note: A supernova discovered on March 30, 1993, is the target of opportunity for three satellites. Observed initially by NASA's International Ultraviolet Explorer, SN 1993J also has been looked at in the gamma-ray spectrum by NASA's Compton Gamma-Ray Observatory and in the x-ray spectrum by the Japanese Astro-D satellite and the German Roentgen Satellite. Public Affairs Contact: Michael Finneran (301) 286-5565 -end- ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Being cynical never helps /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | to correct the situation |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | and causes more aggravation | instead. ------------------------------ Date: 8 Apr 93 23:37:15 -0500 From: tffreeba@indyvax.iupui.edu Subject: Hoosier Pi Phight (was Re: All Kinds of Stuff) Newsgroups: sci.space Bill Higgins Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory forwarded this bit of Hoosier Hysteria: >It has been found that a circular area is to the square on a line equal to the >quadrant of the circumference, as the area of an equilateral rectangle is to >the square on one side. The diameter employed as the linear unit according to >the present rule in computing the circle's area is entirely wrong, as it >represents the circles area one and one-fifths times the area of a square >whose perimeter is equal to the circumference of the circle. This is because >one-fifth of the diameter fils to be represented four times in the circle's >circumference. For example: if we multiply the perimeter of a square by >one-fourth of any line one-fifth greater than one side, we can, in like >manner make the square's area to appear one fifth greater than the fact, as >is done by taking the diameter for the linear unit instead of the quadrant >of the circle's circumference. >It is impossible to compute the area of a circle on thediameter as the >linear unit without tresspassing upon the area outside thecircle to >the extent of including one-fifth more area than is contained within >the circle's circumference, because the square on the diameter produces the >side of a square which equals nine when the arc of ninety degrees equals >eight. By taking the quadrant of the circle's circumference for the linear >unit, we fulfill the requirements of both quadrature and rectification of >the circle's circumference. Furthermore, it has revealed the ratio of the >chord and arc of ninety degrees, which is as seven to eight, and also the >ratio of the diagonal and one side of a square which is as ten to seven, >disclosing the fourth important fact, that the ratio of the diameter and is >as five-fourths to four; and because of these facts and the further >fact that the rule in present use fails to work both ways mathematically, >it should be discarded as wholly wanting and misleading in its practical >applications. WAIT A GODDAM MINUTE! You mean this is not true??! This is certainly what I was taught at good ole Goodwin High. Possibly this is the reason I got a 499 on my math SAT. The thing that REALLY amazes me is that there was NO use of CAPITALS in this FANTASTIC DOCUMENT OF SUPPRESSED TRUTH! They were less sophisticated times. Thanks Bill. After a rotten day this is just what the doctor ordered (actually, she ordered me to lose 30 lbs. and quit smoking, but this seemed much easier.) Tom Freebairn P.S. To the Flamer who asked if I wanted to join the fun: Nope. I will be too busy writing a screenplay about the great Hoosier Pi Phight. Hmmmm... titles, titles, titles? "Pi Pi Birdie?" "Bridge Around the River Pi?" "Fast Times at Goodwin Pi?" ... ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1993 04:34:29 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Inflatible Space Work Area for Construction. Newsgroups: sci.space Well I think this might be to wierd or ?? How about an inflated structure in space to cover the total area of the proposed space station.. Best reason for this is to carry a proposal that Andrew Bissell had.. Basically to allow the workers to not to have to wear suits, EVA and such.. Basically the inflated baloon would act like how construction in parts of Alaska is done.. Basically provide cover from the elements, and with a space heater a heat source.. Added to this would be oxygen, and easy of contruction.. Workers might have to wear some form of light space suit incase of a blow out.. You would have to add a access point to allow trusses and material in to the inflated structure/construction site.. I have had some experiance in construction off and odd for the last 10+ years.. Access point as in large airlock (to allow for material in and out) also some form of filteration device to keep flying outgases and waste material from causing harm to the workers.. I migth re-write this later offline.. Also to get my ideas in line.. == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1993 04:21:18 GMT From: nsmca@ACAD3.ALASKA.EDU Subject: Michael Adam's posts Newsgroups: sci.space In article , loss@fs7.ECE.CMU.EDU (Doug Loss) writes: > Michael Adams asked if anyone objected to his many posts. Personally, I > enjoy a lot of them. I find the constant flame wars a lot more > objectionable, but I would never suggest that people don't have a right > to whine in public. Keep up the posts, Michael; you never get answers > if you don't ask questions! > > Doug Quyanna, I am glad some body else does not mind me.. Flame wars are unproductive and should be in email or better yet, exchange phone numbers and the flamers pay for the phone calls.. Ill keep on posting, yes I am looking for a way to spell check before I post.. Including write my post offline and then upload it.. == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked ------------------------------ Date: 8 Apr 1993 23:41:44 -0400 From: Pat Subject: Plans, absence therof Newsgroups: sci.space In article shafer@rigel.dfrf.nasa.gov (Mary Shafer) writes: | |We are allowed to involve ourselves in non-partisan politics, like |school boards, municipal offices, etc. Mary. Here in the DC area, the municipal offices are partisan. Democratic republican parties, all connected to the national parties. So as I interpret it, Federal workers can campaign for the School Board which is non-partisan, but not for the county council which is partisan? or the town governments which are also partisan. | |We are very limited in our investments, too, because of the same |conflict-of-interest issue. Again, there must be a nexus; I avoid |high-tech stocks but I can put money into healthcare stocks, someone |from HHD would have to do the opposite. | I think you can use trust accounts, or composite fund accounts that disconnect you from any particular company or area. I think the Big investment houses here know the details. |All of these rules are there to ensure that the public can be assured |that civil servants will not be motivated by issues other than the |ones at hand. We shouldn't make decisions based on what our |investments will do or what our politics are or any other extraneous |issues and these rules are in place to make it absolutely obvious what |the limits are. | And it really helps avoid trouble. There is always local squawking about the Hatch act due to the concentration of federal workers here, but I think it contributes to a professionalism among the corps of federal workers. | |There are other rules of behavior that have to do with bringing the |government into disrepute. These things have to be pretty flagrant, |but civil servants can be dismissed for behavior off the job if it |would cast a bad light on the government. Examples of this include |sexual scandals and extremist groups. Persistantly not paying debts |qualifies, too. (This isn't just the Feds--in California, teachers |can lose their credentials if they're convicted of drunken driving.) We had one guy here who was a Piercer for the S&M community who was also an actuary at FDIC, just get canned for creating a perception that he could not continue his work. > >It certainly holds me back from being perfectly frank in this >forum--I'm not going to put my career on the line for some bozo to >complain to his congressman when I call him an idiot. Well, I'd stick up for you, for whatever it's worth. Just remember, >you're fighting someone with one hand tied behind her back. Your'e one right hook beats Nicks 10 fingers and two feet no sweat :-) ------------------------------ Date: 9 Apr 93 07:10:34 GMT From: Thierry Ranchin Subject: Searching SSM/I data Newsgroups: sci.space I am looking for multichannel SSM/I images (basic sensor or geophysical). If any one have information to obtain free data under ftp, please answer by mail or in this newsgroup. Thanks. Thierry -- +---------------------------------------+----------------------------------+ | Thierry Ranchin | | | Groupe Teledetection & Modelisation | | | Centre d'Energetique | e-mail : ranchin@cenerg.cma.fr | | Ecole des Mines de Paris | | | BP 207 | tel : (33) 93 95 74 60 | | F-06904 Sophia Antipolis Cedex | | +---------------------------------------+----------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 6 Apr 93 18:41:48 CDT From: Bob Kierski Subject: Space Research Spinoffs Newsgroups: sci.space >>Question is can someone give me 10 examples of direct NASA/Space related >>research that helped humanity in general? It will be interesting to see.. > >>Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu -- I'm not high, just jacked >Again, it was inteneded, so it might not count as a spin-off, but how >about satellite based communication, like TV, Cellular phones, or Lorans? I don't think that TV is something that helps humanity. And when I'm driving home seeing people talking on their phones instead of watching where they are going, I think that's anonther bad thing. >Then there's Tang. I just can't get enough of that stuff :-) What about the booming market for moon rocks. I bought one when I was 7 at the planetarium. I wonder how much and how fast micro computer technology would have be developed if it weren't for NASA's funding. -- Have a day, @ @ ( ) bobo ------------------------------ Date: 9 Apr 1993 00:12:39 -0400 From: Pat Subject: What Minerals are Cheaper on Mars? than earth? Newsgroups: sci.space Eric Seale is encapsulating Bob Zubrins Mars Direct Proposal. Personally, I think it;'s a hellacious Balls to the walls approach to get us to Mars and explore it on a decent budget. He claims 10 missions, 2 people each for about 100 Billion dollars. I am not a expert on rocketry, but his numbers looked very good to me. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1993 04:13:58 GMT From: Duke Briscoe Subject: Will the launch be visible from NJ? Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle,sci.space moroney@world.std.com (Michael Moroney) writes: > I was able to see it from >Central Mass. as a fast- moving, bright orangish star that appeared from >nowhere, moved 20 degrees, disappeared (boosters off? behind cloud?) >then reappeared again even brighter for another 20 degrees then >disappeared again. >-Mike I saw it too, from near Boston. After spotting, I quickly found it using my 10x70 binoculars. I could see the fan-like structure of the exhaust. There was quite a bit of detail. I got the impression that when it went out was when the engines cut off and maybe they dropped the external fuel tank, which sputtered some flame as it tumbled. I would like to know how long after launch the solid rocket boosters and the external tank are dropped. I was observing at about 1:35 EST or maybe a few minutes later. Duke ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 9 Apr 1993 05:49:54 GMT From: Bob Egan Subject: Will the launch be visible from NJ? Newsgroups: sci.space.shuttle,sci.space Hi Duke/Mike and Guys/Gals I am North Smithfield , RI... the shuttle appeared in our area about 4+ minutes after launch, in theory. I started to see it just about 6 minutes. The main engines went out at 8 minutes 40 seconds..I saw it too....but could not see if the liquid tank was jetisoned at that time. Same disapperaing act behind the ?clouds? / smog layer for 10 seconds 2 or 3 times. I was using 7x35 binoculars, and could also see the very good detail of the flame. Couold also make out the outline of the shuttle... Couple of other interesting observations.. 1. the shuttle is sort of pushed sideways and up..eg its attitude isn;t going straight up, nor parallel to the flight path. 2. after the main engine cutoff....i was VERY surprised to see the very bright white beacons it flashed at about 2-3 second rate. look like on on the back and one front. (or was I hullicinating ??) anybody know about these ????? 3. as the shuttle got further down range( east and north), I was looking up its "rear' and watched the orange glow....if the main engine fuel burn ended at 8:40'ish...(the flash and no more bright large flame)...and the solid rockets blew away earlier..what is the fuel for the engines at this point ? 4. while waiting for the shuttle to come above my horizon, a rather large plane came from the north headed southeast, and then downrange from me took a right at the moon :), and headed eactly where I had claculated the shuttle would be coming up from..(it did appear about 30 seconds later) now..was this a "fly w/ us and see the shuttle by a departing airline out of logan, or is this a chase plane for NASA" ???? The filght path was not one of the standard paths common in my view. anyhow ..final note...we in new england have several high passes..one in about 45 minutes (1:40AM Friday) during the mission.....anybody know if the white strobes are on all through the mission? regards, Bob ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 444 ------------------------------