Date: Fri, 2 Apr 93 05:21:21 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #403 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Fri, 2 Apr 93 Volume 16 : Issue 403 Today's Topics: Abyss: breathing fluids Alaska Pipeline and Space Station! CIA Quote (was: More water simulations) Earth's atmospheric pressure constant over geolgic time? JPL Mission Updates - 03/30/93 Jules Verne Gun lie low netters! UFO's want you! Luddites in space NORAD (tediously long) PBS space special (2 msgs) Pres. Clinton's E-mail Address Small Astronaut (was: Budget Astronaut) Space Research Spin Off Status of U.S./Soviet Cooperation (2 msgs) Test the call to space (was Re: Clueless Szaboisms ) (3 msgs) Venus is covered with water? Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 22:17:57 GMT From: fred j mccall 575-3539 Subject: Abyss: breathing fluids Newsgroups: sci.space In <1pcjmt$iiv@access.digex.com> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: >In article edm@twisto.compaq.com (Ed McCreary) writes: >| >|Until recently, the FDA has not approved the flourocarbon emulsion used > ^^^^^^^^^^ >|in _The Abyss_ for use in humans, so little work has been done. The >|liquid used in the rat scene was an electonic parts cleaner developed > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >|by 3M and yes, the rat really was breathing it and yes he lived a >|normal life afterwards. >| >|But, I've heard reports that's a similar emulsion has been approved for ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >|use in neonates who are experiencing lung problems due to underdeveloped ^^^ >|lungs. I've not seen the papers myself, but I have no reason to doubt it. >| >Of course, by the Time the FDA approves it for wide spread use, >the EPA will have finished Banning CFC's, so it will be back to >the drawing board. Of course, it may make a pretty good non-dairy >dessert topping. You're not paying attention, Pat. See underlined above. Already been approved. Is in widespread use. No, you can't go down to the local 7/11 and buy a few hundred gallons, but then you can't do that with most drugs. [I just happened to know someone who worked for the company the developed it.] Hey, I'd think you would approve of the FDA's attitude. It so matches your own with regard to programs looking into innovations like 20kHz power, after all. ;-) -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 21:44:00 GMT From: fred j mccall 575-3539 Subject: Alaska Pipeline and Space Station! Newsgroups: sci.space In <1pa77h$6eg@access.digex.com> prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes: >In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >>The US government historically has been most unwilling to just set the >>performance specs and guarantee the market for spaceflight. (It's been >>done with enormous success in other areas, notably aviation.) NASA and >I can think of Airmail, but what else? The whole push for large, multi-engined aircraft (certainly not necessary for airmail at the time) which were land-based (most large aircraft wanted to be water-based, cuz lakes were cheap infrastructure compared to airfields). This was all done with government incentives / subsidies. -- "Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live in the real world." -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Fred.McCall@dseg.ti.com - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 10:20:10 PST From: "UTADNX::UTDSSA::GREER"@utspan.span.nasa.gov Subject: CIA Quote (was: More water simulations) In Space Digest V16 #398, Dave McKissock writes: >... ><< You shall know the truth, and it shall set you free >> >Quote engraved in the marble wall @ CIA Headquarters >dbm0000@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov Okay, this is getting way off the mark, so I'll make it short, but I can't stand the thought that some people might think this quote comes from the CIA. In fact, it comes from John I 8.32 in the Christian New Testament, and it is something Jesus said would happen to people who believed in him. "...ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." (in King James lingo) _____________ Dale M. Greer, whose opinions are not to be confused with those of The Center for Space Sciences, University of Texas at Dallas UTSPAN::UTADNX::UTDSSA::GREER or greer@utdallas.utdcss.edu "Let machines multiply, doing the work of many, But let the people have no use for them." - Lao Tzu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 05:07:46 GMT From: "robert.f.casey" Subject: Earth's atmospheric pressure constant over geolgic time? Newsgroups: sci.space All this mention of Venus's atmosphere at about 100 atm makes me wonder why, if Earth is even a bit more massive than Venus, the Earth doesn't also have a thicker atmosphere? Probably the oceans made limestone of lots of CO2? Anyway, do we know if the atmospheric pressure has been constant over millions of years? Maybe those pterdytals (sp, those flying dinosaur era reptiles) flew in a thicker atmosphere. Flying in a 3 atm atmosphere could be a lot easier to do. Has this issue ever been looked at? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 01:32:00 GMT From: David Ward Subject: JPL Mission Updates - 03/30/93 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary In article <30MAR199317382703@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov>, baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov (Ron Baalke) writes... > PLANETARY MISSION STATUS > March 30, 1993 > >TOPEX/Poseidon: The satellite is healthy, and all scientific >instruments are performing normally, typically providing three >playbacks per day. The mission to map ocean circulation has >produced interesting results related to the Central Pacific "El ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Nino" phenomenon were presented in late February, and the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^2 >spacecraft has observed high North Atlantic waves associated with >this month's storms. TOPEX/Poseidon was launched August 10, 1992, >aboard Ariane 52. >Contact: Mary Hardin, (818) 354-5011. > I used to think that "El Nino" occurred every 3 years or so, but it has occurred the past two in a row. Does anyone know if there is an "expert opinion" regarding the periodic nature of the phenom.? Thanks--oh, and if TOPEX is a planetary observer, why aren't _you_ providing the updates on UARS? (Sorry, couldn't resist!) David W. @ GSFC ------------------------------ Date: 31 Mar 93 23:13:22 GMT From: "Robert J. Hall" Subject: Jules Verne Gun Newsgroups: sci.space > My feeling is that you do not have to have a nuclear weapon to put > this thin in orbit. There has been some previous work on using guns > to launch payloads to reach EXTREME altitudes (but not orbit) using > guns and they got to go over 100 km. The work was done by the > Canadians and they still have the gun. If you follow up I can get the > references for you. Yes, I caught the NOVA program about the work on the Super Gun (including the supposed involvement of Israel and Iraq.) In thinking about it a bit more, it is probably not that practical. The tunnel would have to be built from scratch for each use, and reinforced against the shock wave. (Assuming it travels faster than the projectile.) The answer to my original post also came to me afterward. (Slap myself on the side of the head.) I just assumed all the energy was converted into momentum of the projectile, and the answer was an upper bound. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth. :-) -- Bob Hall | The definition of an "Expert" consists Boeing Computer Services | of two parts: an "Ex" is a has-been, root@chicken.ca.boeing.com | and a "spurt" is a drip under pressure. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 19:05:45 GMT From: David Geiser Subject: lie low netters! UFO's want you! Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro At last, a true reason for allowing anonymous postings! -- To know recursion, you must first know recursion. -- ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 09:15:49 GMT From: Greg Stewart-Nicholls Subject: Luddites in space Newsgroups: sci.space,talk.politics.space In <1993Mar31.181516.1068@mksol.dseg.ti.com> fred j mccall 575-3539 writes: >Famous last words. I'm curious, though, Pat. How would you feel if >your doctor told you that he/she "didn't bother" with medical school >because they "already knew the field" or that the flight control >software for the airplane you were riding in was designed and built by >someone who "didn't bother" with training to learn about software >engineering because they "already knew the field"? There's nothing so unreal about this. Possession of a piece of paper does not guarantee competence. After all when I started doing software there was no such thing as a computer science course. I think you'd be amazed (particularly in software) at the number of truly competent people who've never bothered with degrees, because they were too busy doing real work :-) ----------------------------------------------------------------- .sig files are like strings ... every yo-yo's got one. Greg Nicholls ... nicho@vnet.ibm.com (business) or nicho@olympus.demon.co.uk (private) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 93 05:13:48 GMT From: David Fuzzy Wells Subject: NORAD (tediously long) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Apr1.030230.1@vax1.tcd.ie> apryan@vax1.tcd.ie writes: >Does anyone have a telephone no. for NORAD? (Is it called Space >Command now?). I need to urgently check if there have been any >re-entries in last 2 days! Any e-mail addresses would also be >of use! Sorry to burst your bubble, but those numbers are not going to be had by anyone but the government and government contractors. Seriously, can you imagine what would happen if the number to the SSC (Space Surveillance Center) was posted? "Excuse me General, but my name is Bubba T. Hornswallow and Charlie and me done seen a bright light in the sky last night after the church picnic.....I reckon' it's Martians, but Charlie is positive that they were from Venus....What you think?" The Mountain is not connected to the Internet, so email addresses are not going to be found. And considering that I have only seen one other Space Command person on the net besides myself..... well, let's say you have a better chance of getting an audience with the Pope than getting a direct connect to the Mountain to quiz them on reentries. Seems that classified computers and the net don't seem to get along real well. NORAD is not Space Command. Air Force Space Command is usually referred to as "Space Command". NORAD gets its info on missile warning and space surveillance from USSPACECOM. USSPACECOM is a joint command (Army, Navy and Air Force Space Command being components). Air Force Space Command is responsible for missile warning, space control (which includes space surveillance), satellite operations, spacelift (launching of DOD sats), and space applications (how can we best use space to aid the warfighters). BTW, after going a few rounds with NASA and their idea of bringing the entire International Community into the space arena, I think the world needs to be reminded of what we do. WE ARE THE MILITARY. We are not a clearinghouse for all things space-related. Our goal is the military exploitation of space. We don't serve the International Community. We serve the United States government (not to forget the Canadians that are also a part of NORAD). Our data is _our data_ and if we decide to release one portion of it and not another, that is our choice. If you have a problem with that, build your own SSN (Satellite Surveillance Network). Believe it or don't, it costs gosh-awful amounts of money to do what we do and since Uncle Sam is picking up the tab, we work for him and follow his orders. We are not at the beck and call of the world. Really. So, with all that said, you can send email to me and if I (and my boss) think that it is important enough to beg the Mountain to look into it, we will. That is the first hurdle.... getting info from the Mountain is like getting blood from a stone. They are very busy (what with Bubba calling and all...) and having them look back over their logs is not usually given top priority. Protection of the continent and keeping accurate tracks on 7000 man-made objects floating in space is number 1, research work ranks slightly above giving tours (they _hate_ tours). I guess it should also be mentioned that I travel the Internet on my spare time and I do have a real job during the day (space debris is my specialty)....so consider me a "last resort" on getting help (unless you have a .gov or .mil address). Strange as it may seem, all data flows to the Mountain, not to Headquarters...which means my data is not "the latest" and so I have to ask the SSC (and wait my turn) for info "in last two days". I just happen to have that magical number and know the right people to talk to. BTW, if you must write, including some type of credentials helps. Sorry....it's been a long month (I think it shows). Fuzzy. ============================================================================== _ __/| | Lt. David "Fuzzy" Wells | "Every normal man must be tempted \'o.O' | HQ AFSPACECOM/CNA | at times to spit on his hands, =(___)= | "We do debris" | hoist the black flag, and begin U ...ack!| wdwells@esprit.uccs.edu | slitting throats." -H.L. MENCKEN ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 06:30:49 GMT From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey Subject: PBS space special Newsgroups: sci.space I am interested in the Net's reaction to last night's PBS special, whose prosaic title "Living and Working in Space" concealed the unorthodox sights and sounds within. I've only watched a fraction of the tape, so I'll reserve my opinion for now. What Fermi did under a stadium Bill Higgins Da deuteron, ron, ron, da deuteron ron Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory She did with heavy water and palladium Bitnet: HIGGINS@FNAL.BITNET Da deuteron, ron, ron, da deuteron ron SPAN/Hepnet: 43011::HIGGINS --W. Skeffington Higgins, Internet: HIGGINS@FNAL.FNAL.GOV "Fusion Girl," 1989 ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 19:04:00 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: PBS space special Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Apr1.123049.1@fnalo.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalo.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: >I am interested in the Net's reaction to last night's PBS special, >whose prosaic title "Living and Working in Space" concealed the... I liked it. I thought it did a good job of communicating to children that space was exciting and that someday we would do the same things we doon Earth in space. I saw it with two teachers who have no special interest in space and they agreed. My main objection was the lack of scientific accuracy in some of their segments. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------76 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 18:03:10 GMT From: games@max.u.washington.edu Subject: Pres. Clinton's E-mail Address Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Mar31.003104.15192@mixcom.com>, jjxxjj@mixcom.com (Tom Damm) writes: > The e-mail address I have is: > > 75300.3115@compuser.com > > Dunno if it works, haven't tried. > This is the address of a man named Jock Gill. He works for clinton, but not even directly. He will take your mail, and print it, and give it to the same people who process all of the mail for the pres. Admittedly, this is easier for us, but it adds work for him. He has however told people in the past that he is trying to get a REAL account for mail to the pres for those people whose job it is to deal with the presidential mail. John. ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 19:15:12 GMT From: "John S. Neff" Subject: Small Astronaut (was: Budget Astronaut) Newsgroups: sci.space In article jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) writes: >From: jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) >Subject: Re: Small Astronaut (was: Budget Astronaut) >Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 18:33:30 GMT >sasbck@spain.unx.sas.com (Brenda Kalt) writes: > >>In article <1993Mar30.054935.19478@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > >>|> Definitely possible: George is 6'2" and insists that any project >>|> he works on be large enough to, in theory, fit himself. You could >>|> probably cut the mass of his manned Pegasus capsule by 5% to 10%, >>|> just by insisting on a 5'0" astronaut... >>|> > >>I've wondered about this for a long time. For space missions lasting >>months or years, wouldn't it be more efficient to use small astronauts? >>The beds and other equipment can be smaller or, in the case of >>off-the-shelf equipment, the astronauts would get less claustrophobic. >>Food requirements would be less (somebody help me out on this). > >I've been wondering about this too. Hiring women (or short men) as astronauts >would seem to be beneficial for future long term spaceflight. Lower mass means >less fuel. Smaller size means smaller quarters for less mass (and Frank Lloyd >Wright would approve). A lower caloric intake means the food facities can be >smaller. All of these factors are, of course, lost in the noise when we fly >huge gigabuck space ships. However, the economics might start showing up if >one postulates that longer term spaceflights might become much more common, >such as in an asteroid mining society. This isn't entirely irrelevant to the >present, however. I've been told that one of the concerns about using Soyuz >as the return vehicle for Freedom is that it's just a tad small. There are a >couple of taller astronauts who are quite concerned about whether they would >be eligible for station duty, and a number of women who are quite happy about >the whole thing. > >-- >Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu > "Tout ce qu'un homme est capable d'imaginer, d'autres hommes > seront capable de la realiser" > -Jules Verne Kurt Vonnegut wrote a story about sending sperm into interstellar space called the "Big Space F---". I don't recall where the eggs were suppose to come from. I suppose you could send them along or have an all female crew. It would not be a lot of fun, but think of all the weight you would save. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 10:52:28 GMT From: "Daniel M. Newman" Subject: Space Research Spin Off Newsgroups: sci.space In article stephens@geod.emr.ca (Dave Stephenson) writes: >For my money the most important piece of space research spin off to >date (rather before the time of NASA) is Australia. NSW was colonised >because of the excellent maps produced by the Endurance expedition ^^^^^^^^^ Endeavour - almost like the shuttle - The support of Joseph Banks, a wealthy and influential botanical enthusiast, had quite a bit to do with the primary voyage and subsequent settlement. Where are our wealthy and scientifically literate space enthusiasts ? >lead by Capt. Cook. The primary mission objective of that voyage was >to observe the transit of Venus from Tahiti. This in turn was only etc etc >-- >Dave Stephenson >Geodetic Survey of Canada >Ottawa, Ontario, Canada >Internet: stephens@geod.emr.ca -- Dan Newman Department of Aeronautical Engineering University of Sydney Sydney NSW AUSTRALIA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 02:16:29 GMT From: Gary Coffman Subject: Status of U.S./Soviet Cooperation Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1pc75eINN7a9@phantom.gatech.edu> matthew@phantom.gatech.edu (Matthew DeLuca) writes: > >The only kind of aid I see having any real effect on the situation over there >is aid targeted at specific sectors of the economy that are in critically >failing condition; food production and transportation, energy, housing, things >like that, where the money has a direct effect on the people. Giving money >to Energia to build Szabo Space-Toasters likely won't have that effect. You are absolutely right. And to give the devil his due, Clinton is following through aggressively on this Bush administration initative. There are Dept of Agriculture people on the ground over there right now targeting sites for on the farm grain storage facilities that can be quickly constructed with direct aid. There are DOT people on the ground over there targeting farm to market road projects and lining up trucks to use those roads. Over half of Russian food production currently rots on the farm because of lack of suitable storage and lack of suitable transport. With only modest investments, the Russians will be able to easily feed their populations at reasonable cost. Full grocery store shelves will do more to stabilize reform than any other thing the West can do for Russia. Infrastructure is the most important thing the Russians need. They build excellent tractors, I have one. They build adequate trucks, and there are now plenty available military surplus. But their highway and secondary road systems are pathetic, and market mechanisms are non-existant. Dept of Ag market specialists are on the ground over there teaching them how to set up crop marketing mechanisms to get the buyers and sellers together in an organized way. If the reform politicians can hold on for another year, big improvements are on the way. Spending NASA's entire budget on buying Soviet space toys would have much less effect on the average Russian's economic plight than these few hundred millions in direct targeted aid. But it would destroy the American space industry and infrastructure in the process. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 08:06:54 GMT From: Nick Szabo Subject: Status of U.S./Soviet Cooperation Newsgroups: sci.space millere@cps.msu.edu (Paul Eric Miller) writes: >it >seems beyond belief that we have not undertaken a greater form of >cooperation with the former Soviets to exploit the peaceful uses of >space. What gives? Nationalism & pork barrel give. The best form of cooperation we could have is to allow Russian launchers full access to the free market -- ie, cut out the subsidies on this end. Why are we building another space station, in the wrong orbit, instead of using Mir? Why aren't we using Proton and Soyuz to launch new industries like DBS and phone cell sats? Because we've got a bunch of people who care about job security more than they care about developing space or encouraging a free market. We've got dinosaurs like Atlas blowing up our payloads, and we spend over $1 billion a mission to launch our astronauts, because we're so damned self-centered. There's no doubt the change is wrenching to people on both sides, but here we have a chance to work together to accelerate space development, and we're blowing it. Alas, for every one of us that sits here and raises the issue, there are ten bureaucrats sitting at NASA and DoD and their contractors, using taxpayer money to dream up excuses of why they should continue to spend gargantuan sums on services that Russians, Europeans, Chinese and/or Japanese can deliver less expensively or more effectively. There are also a few courageous folks who recognize that now is time to take advantage of a worldwide space market, to improve and expand on our strengths, and let others take over the jobs where we are weak, making the sum vastly greater than if we each sit in our own citadels trying to develop complete systems. The assholes sit around trying to justify their old projects and skills. The heros are retraining themselves, targetting new markets and designing new payloads for them, and they need our vocal support. -- Nick Szabo szabo@techboook.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 12:23:16 -0600 From: greer@utd500.utdallas.edu Subject: Test This is a test of SMTP. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 02:31:06 GMT From: Gary Coffman Subject: the call to space (was Re: Clueless Szaboisms ) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Mar31.174651.23054@julian.uwo.ca> jdnicoll@prism.ccs.uwo.ca (James Davis Nicoll) writes: > > Not posting from an igloo in the middle of tundra, Oh, you guys got portables on your dogsleds now huh? :-);-) Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 04:55:39 GMT From: Pat Subject: the call to space (was Re: Clueless Szaboisms ) Newsgroups: sci.space I'll take C for 500 dollars alex. No lot's of US exported technologies carry re-export rules. We sell stuff to the germans, they can't export it without our permission. This is separate from IAEA rules. It's why the israelis can't sell fighters without our permission, we licensed them the engine production capacity. It's why they are trying to develope native versions of stuff. No rules. pat ------------------------------ Date: 1 Apr 93 17:12:37 GMT From: Doug Mohney Subject: the call to space (was Re: Clueless Szaboisms ) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Mar31.222126.28956@mksol.dseg.ti.com>, mccall@mksol.dseg.ti.com (fred j mccall 575-3539) writes: > >Why would they be? They are, of course, subject to things like IAEA >rules. And the Canadian government might make some agreements with >the U.S. government. But have U.S. rules apply to Canada? I hadn't >even heard we'd annexed them yet. ;-) Annex? No, they're going to ask to be members of the United States, once Quebec decides to make it on their own. Lord knows what we're going to do with all those maple tree flags. At least the Marines will be relieved. Software engineering? That's like military intelligence, isn't it? -- > SYSMGR@CADLAB.ENG.UMD.EDU < -- ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1993 08:06:19 GMT From: "Gregory N. Bond" Subject: Venus is covered with water? Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro In article <48376@fibercom.COM> ajm@wilson.fibercom.com (AJ Madison) writes: [..] What happened to [the water]? Split by the intense UV one finds at venus, the oxygen turned into venusian oxides, and the hydrogen atoms drifted free of the venusian gravity and into interplanetary space. Which also explains the abnormally high abundance of Deuterium and Tritium. Being heavier than ordinary hydrogen, they are slower to "boil off". This preferentially increases their ratios. Greg. -- Gregory Bond Burdett Buckeridge & Young Ltd Melbourne Australia Knox's 386 is slick. Fox in Sox, on Knox's Box Knox's box is very quick. Plays lots of LSL. He's sick! (Apologies to John "Iron Bar" Mackin.) ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 403 ------------------------------