Date: Fri, 12 Mar 93 05:00:10 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #301 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Fri, 12 Mar 93 Volume 16 : Issue 301 Today's Topics: 20 kHz Power Supplies "blowing up"! ALTERNATIVE Comet Rendezvous Mission (2 msgs) Delta Clipper (was Re: Fallen Angels) Galileo Update - 03/10/93 Lunar Ice Transport (2 msgs) My DCX .sig and DCX update NASA and gold (5 msgs) NASP (was Re: Canadian SS plans, and absence thereof Road & Track road tests 1996 JPL Rocky Starprobe Winding trails from rocket Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 10 Mar 93 19:21:11 GMT From: Pat Subject: 20 kHz Power Supplies "blowing up"! Newsgroups: sci.space In article <9MAR199323230192@judy.uh.edu> wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes: >In article <1niun0INNi6t@access.digex.com>, prb@access.digex.com (Pat) writes... >>In article <9MAR199308521171@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov> dbm0000@tm0006.lerc.nasa.gov (David B. Mckissock) writes: > >> >>I dare you to justify 3 things: >> >> 1) 20 KHz power developement. >> > Oh, Dennis. You are ruining my Fun. I wanted to see McKissock actually justify these three questions. He claims to be a hotshot, I want to hear the opinion from the inside. >Since I started this and you have jumped on it like a bulldog I will answer >you. The primary advantage of 20 khz is light weight and some ease of >integration of the entire system in orbit. It has several disadvantages >that were conclusively shown in 1988 and 1989. There never was a lot of money >spent on the idea. It was a brainchild of the Lewis folks who were given the > How much weight savings was achieved versus 400 Hz power? How much was the expected program cost of these components? Why didn't anyone do the EMI/RFI studies on paper before even brassboarding? >You are the one pat that is always pushing technology, but when someone >does that then you get upset. And don't say that anyone that has common sense >could see that 20khz would not work. It was a good idea to try even if it >did lead to a dead end. > A sure i believe in psuhing technology developement but in sensible areas. I hate to say this, but Ick, the shuttle seems to run fine using 400 hz, as does the entire us militaryt, and the aircraft industry. And why not say common sense says 20Khz wont work. it seemed stupid from the moment i heard about it. >> 2) Non Metric (english) component selection with the >> european modules being Metric. >> > >So what. Read a Japanese technical manual. They quote everything in metric >but if you do the conversions they are english standard. Who cares if >the english system takes a little math to do the work. Metric is good >but we have had the technology for conversions for a hundred years now and >it is well understood. > Oh no not this old chestnut again. My complaint is not over the conversion of the numbers, my complaint is over the sparing problem. Bolts,wrenches, measuring gear, etc.... >> 3) Total failure to practice EVA until this year. >> > >I guess you never saw many missions before Challenger. They blew it by going >off the other end and being too conservative. Well with the Intelsat rescue >that changed so what is your problem? > A little late, isn't it? >Me thinks you like to complain too much > Dennis, I try to think of ten impossible complaints before breakfast each day :-) ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 1993 00:09:44 GMT From: Shari L Brooks Subject: ALTERNATIVE Comet Rendezvous Mission Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space,alt.sci.planetary,sci.astro In article <1993Mar8.184733.4833@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu writes: > ALTERNATIVE Comet Rendezvous Mission [...] > scenes. [See especially the 2-7-80, 5-14-81, 5-21-81, 5-27- > 82, and 10-14-82 back-issues of WISCONSIN REPORT newspaper, > P.O. Box 45, Brookfield, WI 53005.] > The Russians have spacecraft called "COSMOSPHERES", > which were originally built and used for "Star Wars" defense. I remember seeing this almost a year ago. It is the same exact article. Someone posted that they wanted info on McEwaine to complain. I lost the address so I will post back. Msg ID is of course in the attribution. Note that there are two msg IDs in the "references" header, they are to the same article, one in sci.space.shuttle, one in talk.politics.space. But seriously, he has posted this article before. hm, it might have been last summer. Before I had *this* account anyways. Does anyone else remember this? Contact the person who wanted info! sheesh. if there's anything worse than crackpot posts, it's gotta be *recycled* crackpot posts. -- If you blow fire against the wind, take care to not get the smoke in your eyes. Big & Growly Dragon-monster | bafta@cats.ucsc.edu --------> shari brooks <-------- | brooks@anarchy.arc.nasa.gov The above opinions are solely my own. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 00:52:31 GMT From: "James H. Kiley" Subject: ALTERNATIVE Comet Rendezvous Mission Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space,alt.sci.planetary,sci.astro In article <1nm008INNbrr@darkstar.UCSC.EDU>, bafta@cats.ucsc.edu (Shari L Brooks) writes: |> |> |> In article <1993Mar8.184733.4833@cnsvax.uwec.edu> mcelwre@cnsvax.uwec.edu |> writes: |> |> |> > ALTERNATIVE Comet Rendezvous Mission |> |> [...] |> |> > scenes. [See especially the 2-7-80, 5-14-81, 5-21-81, 5-27- |> > 82, and 10-14-82 back-issues of WISCONSIN REPORT newspaper, |> > P.O. Box 45, Brookfield, WI 53005.] |> |> > The Russians have spacecraft called "COSMOSPHERES", |> > which were originally built and used for "Star Wars" defense. |> |> Does anyone else remember this? Contact the person who wanted info! |> |> sheesh. if there's anything worse than crackpot posts, it's gotta be |> *recycled* crackpot posts. Lots of McElwane (sp?)'s stuff comes out of Larsonomy, whose precepts I recently saw printed out in stacks of huge, yellowed, ancient newsprint all over our campus. I wasn't sure what to think of it but most of it was dated around WWII. Somebody'd had it in their basement or something, and was distributing it. Weird, weird stuff. I think the guy needs to see a physician of some kind. Jim Kiley, Astronomer Wannabe jkiley@andy.bgsu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 1993 02:34:31 GMT From: Shari L Brooks Subject: Delta Clipper (was Re: Fallen Angels) Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Mar4.155736.25653@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> mancus@sweetpea.jsc.nasa.gov (Keith Mancus) writes: > Actually, DC-X is the unmanned suborbital version and DC-Y is the >manned orbital prototype. The first commercial version would be called DC-1. Assuming full funding for development throughout the project (a tall order I know but let's pretend) will there ever be a DC-Z? or is it left that way in case problems with one or the other prototypes force a major enough redesign to have a second prototype? -- If you blow fire against the wind, take care to not get the smoke in your eyes. Big & Growly Dragon-monster | bafta@cats.ucsc.edu --------> shari brooks <-------- | brooks@anarchy.arc.nasa.gov The above opinions are solely my own. ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 1993 00:01 UT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Galileo Update - 03/10/93 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary Forwarded from: PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICE JET PROPULSION LABORATORY CALIFORNIA INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION PASADENA, CALIF. 91109. TELEPHONE (818) 354-5011 GALILEO MISSION STATUS March 10, 1993 The Galileo spacecraft is 81 million kilometers (51 million miles) from Earth, travelling in its orbit at 29.6 kilometers per second or about 66,000 miles per hour. It is headed out away from the Sun (at almost a million miles per day), toward its flyby of the asteroid Ida on August 28, 1993 and its arrival in Jupiter orbit on December 7, 1995. The spacecraft health and performance continue to be excellent, except that the high-gain antenna is still only partly deployed. It is transmitting telemetry at 1200 bits per second over its low-gain antenna. Galileo's spin rate was increased to 10.5 rpm today to demonstrate the high spin rate required for probe release (July 1995) and subsequent activities using the large, 400-newton rocket engine. The spin rate will be returned to 3.15 rpm on Friday. Yesterday Galileo carried out a trajectory-correction maneuver (about 2.1 meters per second or 4.7 mph) to target it for the Ida encounter. ##### ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | It's kind of fun to do /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | the impossible. |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | Walt Disney ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 22:14:01 GMT From: Ross Borden Subject: Lunar Ice Transport Newsgroups: sci.space In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1993Mar9.200156.2749@sol.UVic.CA> rborden@uglx.UVic.CA (Ross Borden) writes: >> To maintain high through-put, a continuous stream of vehicles >>would haul ice from the polar ice mines to the equatorial processing >>plants... > >Surely it's a whole lot simpler to put the processing plants at the >poles too. (For one thing, at the poles all they need is a tall tower >to get continuous solar power.) Well, yes. But I thought it was a given of the project that there was an equatorial processing plant, and transporting the ice was the major hurdle. >>And are there lunar maps with sufficient resolutions to chart a route? > >The lunar map situation is, roughly speaking, incredibly poor. We have >much better maps of Mars than of the Moon. The situation should improve >substantially with the Clementine 1 mission next year. Any idea what the resolution will be? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | I shot a man just to watch him die; | Ross Borden | | I'm going to Disneyland! | rborden@ra.uvic.ca | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 22:28:11 GMT From: Ross Borden Subject: Lunar Ice Transport Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Mar10.101825.3222@bradford.ac.uk> J.Darrington@bradford.ac.uk (J DARRINGTON) writes: >Ross Borden (rborden@uglx.UVic.CA) wrote: >: In all the Lunar ice transportation proposals that I've seen, >: nobody has mentioned what would be, on Earth, the most obvious: overland >: hauling. >: To maintain high through-put, a continuous stream of vehicles >: would haul ice from the polar ice mines to the equatorial processing >: plants, and then dead-head back (unless there was some return cargo.) > >Sorry, but I must have missed out on the lead up to this thread - why do >we want to put/move ice on the moon?????? > >Bemused but fascinated. > >Jon. Some time ago an engineering student posted a request for ideas to help him with a design project. If I recall correctly, the assumption was that ice deposits were discovered in permanent shadow at the moon's pole and the ice needed to be shipped to an (already established?) base at the equator for processing. As Henry pointed out in another post, it makes much more sense to have everything at the pole with the mine, but that wasn't the project. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | I shot a man just to watch him die; | Ross Borden | | I'm going to Disneyland! | rborden@ra.uvic.ca | -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 93 02:18:50 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: My DCX .sig and DCX update Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Mar11.005406.26215@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov writes: >: The NRC recently visited the DCX hanger and came away very impressed... >I missed an acronym. The NRC? Nuclear Regulatory Commission? Surely not. National Research Council Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------98 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 00:15:43 GMT From: Dave Michelson Subject: NASA and gold Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Mar10.164358.294@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov> jthompso@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov (Joyce Thompson) writes: > >Does anyone know why NASA uses gold in the satellites when it has the >third lowest resistivity next to silver and copper? Any help appreciated. Gold-plated contacts do not degrade as readily as silver or copper plated contacts when oxidized and are therefore more reliable in the long term. The tendency for gold to retain its lustre in the face of weathering also accounts for its popular use in jewelery. (It's also quite malleable and ductile, too.) Hope this helps. --- Dave Michelson University of British Columbia davem@ee.ubc.ca Antenna Laboratory ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 93 03:03:00 GMT From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.MSfc.Nasa.Gov Subject: NASA and gold Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Mar10.164358.294@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov>, jthompso@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov writes... >Hello, >Does anyone know why NASA uses gold in the satellites when it has the >third lowest resistivity next to silver and copper? Any help appreciated. >Thank you. >Joyce >jthompso@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov If I remember right the resistance of gold is inbetween that of silver and copper. The main reason gold is used in space is that it is very unreactive with anything else. So you can flow current through it and it will not react with adjoining parts. This is also why all good quality connectors have a thin gold plating for terrestrial work This is scary when this question is posed by someone at NASA hq. Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 1993 01:00 UT From: Ron Baalke Subject: NASA and gold Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Mar10.232242.19934@sal.wisc.edu>, edgar@sal.wisc.edu (Dick Edgar) writes... >In article <1993Mar10.164358.294@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov> jthompso@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov writes: >>Hello, >>Does anyone know why NASA uses gold in the satellites when it has the >>third lowest resistivity next to silver and copper? Any help appreciated. >>Thank you. >>Joyce > >It's extremely stable chemically, unlike silver and copper. If you expose >copper to the salt air in Florida (or New York, cf. the Statue of Liberty), >it turns green, with who knows what effects on the mechanical and electrical >properties. Also, gold is an excellent reflector of sunlight. For thermal control reasons, you often see gold on the outside of spacecraft that have to go within 1 AU of the Sun. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | It's kind of fun to do /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | the impossible. |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | Walt Disney ------------------------------ Date: 10 Mar 93 16:43:57 +0600 From: jthompso@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov Subject: NASA and gold Newsgroups: sci.space Hello, Does anyone know why NASA uses gold in the satellites when it has the third lowest resistivity next to silver and copper? Any help appreciated. Thank you. Joyce jthompso@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Mar 1993 01:31:17 GMT From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Subject: NASA and gold Newsgroups: sci.space jthompso@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov wrote: : Hello, : Does anyone know why NASA uses gold in the satellites when it has the : third lowest resistivity next to silver and copper? Any help appreciated. : Thank you. : Joyce : jthompso@nhqvax.hq.nasa.gov Corrosion resistance is one reason. Ductility of gold is good -- especially at the non-room-temperature environment in which most spacecraft operate. It also has good galvanic properties. Gold has excellent machinability (silver is almost as good, but it's harder at most temperatures). These things are evident in any good book on material properties. Gold connectors are used frequently in computer applications where frequent component changes are anticipated because gold-to-gold contacts wear better than copper. I know a guy down at JSC's machine shop (building 10) who is an expert on this subject. As you know, Joyce, in most aerospace applications, the cost of the paperwork far exceeds the materials costs, so it makes sense to use the best material possible to reduce paperwork. It's a strange business. -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "Better. Faster. Cheaper." -- Daniel S. Goldin, NASA Administrator ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 93 02:14:19 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: NASP (was Re: Canadian SS Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Mar10.220315.22880@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> hack@arabia.uucp (Edmund Hack) writes: >.... There have been a >number of classified programs working on SSTO over the past 12 years. >Two in particular called Science Dawn and Have Region produced detailed >designs and even prototype structures. >Do you have a citation to articles on this in the open literature? Not a citation but I do have some things. I'll see if I can post a summary (provided I can get the damn gague I'm building to calibrate). Another idea, If you would promise to write a summary I could mail some stuff to you. Email me if your interested. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------98 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX-----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 1993 00:44 UT From: Ron Baalke Subject: plans, and absence thereof Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary In article , szabo@techbook.com (Nick Szabo) writes... >JPL's Ron Baalke: >The Grand Plan for exploring the solar system is a simple four step process: > > 1. Flyby > 2. Orbiter > 3. Unmanned Landing > 4. Manned Landing > >I'll say this even stronger than Henry. Step (4) is an utterly stupid >end goal, suitable for only the most idiotic astronaut groupies. >Two long term goals should be to develop _competitive industries_ >using both planets and planetoids, and an even longer term plan the >settlement of same. You make two statements here that seem to contradict each other. You say manned landings are utterly stupid, but then say settlements should be one of our long term goals. How do you do settlements on other bodies without doing manned landings? >Astronaut should be used if/when necessary, >but should not be considered the central goal of the space program. >Short term goals should remain scientific, with an eye on the >long-term goals (eg prospecting). I agree with you and there is nothing in the Grand Plan that contradicts this. >I'd extend this by pointing out that the Apollo-Amor asteroids and >Jupiter-family comets are also major potential targets for initial large >scale space development, and are even less explored than the Moon. Mars >unlike the Moon and major potential for self-sufficient settlements. >In terms of near-term "pure" science, all these bodies are important >in various ways, as are the gas giants. Again, I agree with you. I mentioned in a previous post that any missions that give the most new science should have the higher priority. >And I agree with Henry that steps 2 and 3 need more detail. Most >important for JPL, the priority of pure science vs. gathering >knowledge for long-term space development ("prospecting") needs to >be discussed and a consensus reached, I agree. First, what is the difference between pure science and gathering knowledge? How can you do one without doing the other? >While exploration should be pursued in the context of long-term >space development, we should not make the serious mistake of >laying out a narrow long-term plan and following it. We need >to have many different long-term scenarios and visions and pursue >space exploration on a broad front; the results of that exploration >and future technology development will point out which areas of >space are most fruitful to develop. I agree with you yet again. I would like to see a balanced space program, both manned and unmanned missions. I think your preference is towards the asteroids, and there is nothing wrong with that. Henry's emphasis is more towards the Moon. My preference is more towards the balance across the entire solar system. >It is utterly stupid to >justify $100 billion astronaut missions for the sake of future $100 >billion missions, ad nauseum with little practical >application or relevence to the rest of space industry, which for >both military and commerce is automated. In a previous post, I stated that the proposed manned mission to Mars or the Moon are too expensive, and they aren't going to be done unless the cost is reduced. $100 billion astronaut mission are unrealistic. >Just as stupid as astronaut worship is this JPL "Grand Plan" which >is a Grand Formula for getting more of its employees laid off in >the future. As long as the users and explorers and promoters of space >are mostly hubristic jerks sitting in their own corner thinking >their plans are all-important, and they don't need to work together >with anybody else, and they don't need to adapt to new technologies >and try to make their operations low-cost, we're going to continue >to get these stupid unworkable pieces of crap called "Grand Plans". Nick, I think there is a miscommunication here, because we are more in agreement than you realize. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | It's kind of fun to do /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | the impossible. |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | Walt Disney ------------------------------ Date: 10 Mar 93 22:32:24 GMT From: Jim Cook Subject: Road & Track road tests 1996 JPL Rocky Newsgroups: sci.space Oh, yeah, these road tests are great. One year, they tested the KSC 995,231 which was the crawler used to take Saturn V's and shuttles from the VAB to the pad. The number was six digits and was the total engine capacity, probably in cubic inches (the number 995,231 was made up here - I can't remember it). Two memorable points about the review: First, regarding the "time through the slaom course" - they remarked that when the vehicle spans the width of the course, it leaves you a bit of lattitude - they just drove it straight over it. Second, the comparison vehicles (probably from prior reviews) were a locomotive and the Goodyear blimp! Glad to see a sense of humor. J --- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- C. James Cook Epoch Systems, Inc. 508-836-4711x385 8 Technology Drive JCook@Epoch.com Westboro, MA 01581 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 11 Mar 93 02:27:01 GMT From: Shari L Brooks Subject: Starprobe Newsgroups: sci.space In article mt90dac@brunel.ac.uk (Del Cotter) writes: ><1mm4u3INNcf8@gap.caltech.edu> looper@cco.caltech.edu (Mark D. Looper) writes: >>It will >>not take pictures of the sun, but rather will carry instruments to measure >>fields and particles that can come behind the shield to be observed; >My impression of Starprobe was that a camera would be positioned to take >pictures of the Sun through a small hole in the apex of the cone. From what I understand, there will be a small opening in the heatshield and the camera will take pictures of the image projected through the hole (much like we teach children how to view eclipses by poking a hole in the paper and watching the shadow). -- If you blow fire against the wind, take care to not get the smoke in your eyes. Big & Growly Dragon-monster | bafta@cats.ucsc.edu --------> shari brooks <-------- | brooks@anarchy.arc.nasa.gov The above opinions are solely my own. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Mar 93 22:59:44 GMT From: boyd johnson Subject: Winding trails from rocket Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sci.geo.meteorology I'm new to these groups, so flame me easy if this is a FAQ. I'm sure many of you in Southern California saw the rocket contrail from Vandenberg Air Force Base last night (Tuesday) at sunset. I have never seen one as it is created, but have seen it many times some time after it happens. It always seems to resemble something like what you'd get if you took the northern lights (aurora borealis) stretched them out, then let it snap into a tangled mess. The trail is nearly vertical near the earth, but as it ascends it appears to go out of control. Is it the wind currents that twists the contrail or does the rocket follow a looping, circling route? Also, it is always the same time of day. Is this the only time the contrails are visible from a distance, or is it when the best atmospheric conditions exist for launch? I am about 250 miles from VAFB, so I assume it is visible from beyond the Mexican border to San Francisco or so. Do those of you near Cape Canaveral or other places see similar sights? -- ====== Boyd Johnson nosc!spectra.com!johnson San Diego, California ====== Intermittent newsfeed at best and only to selected groups. My opinions certainly don't match those of my employer. ------------------------------ id AA06859; Thu, 11 Mar 93 03:47:34 EST Received: from crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu by VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU id aa22671; 11 Mar 93 3:42:45 EST To: bb-sci-space@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Path: crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!das-news.harvard.edu!ogicse!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!aio!kjenks From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Newsgroups: sci.space Subject: Re: Lunar Ice Transport Message-Id: <1993Mar11.010842.26395@aio.jsc.nasa.gov> Date: 11 Mar 93 01:08:42 GMT Article-I.D.: aio.1993Mar11.010842.26395 References: <1993Mar9.200156.2749@sol.UVic.CA> Sender: USENET News System Organization: NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office Lines: 40 X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.1 PL8] Source-Info: Sender is really news@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Source-Info: Sender is really isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU Ross Borden (rborden@uglx.UVic.CA) wrote: : In all the Lunar ice transportation proposals that I've seen, : nobody has mentioned what would be, on Earth, the most obvious: overland : hauling. : To maintain high through-put, a continuous stream of vehicles : would haul ice from the polar ice mines to the equatorial processing : plants, and then dead-head back (unless there was some return cargo.) The extremely tenuous Lunar atmosphere offers another "overland hauling" possibility: ballistic delivery. Put a fast conveyor belt at one end, and a large bucket at the other: ice on conveyor ballistic ice i i -=i \_ ccccccccccccccc \___ c conveyor c _ | Intake to hopper ccccccccccccccc _/ | | ______ / |i| ________________------------ --------------_____ lunar surface This has the same effect as overland hauling, but eliminates the vehicles, the dead-heading, and centrallizes the motive power source and all of the moving parts in one location -- a definite plus from a maintenance viewpoint. Of course, you wouldn't want to stand too near the intake hopper. Or be downrange (or uprange) of the conveyor if the belt breaks. But it sure beats a fleet of Toyota diesels slogging back and forth. (Oh yeah? Who said they'd be from Detroit? And what's wrong with diesel, anyway?) -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "...back to the moon, back to the future, and, this time, back to stay." -- George Bush ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 301 ------------------------------