Date: Tue, 2 Mar 93 05:17:24 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #250 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Tue, 2 Mar 93 Volume 16 : Issue 250 Today's Topics: Blimps Bullets in Space Bussard GIF Energy sources Was: Re: Battery help needed! Help on Catching this REVISITED McElwaine disciplined! (somewhat long) Refueling in orbit Why Apollo didn't continue? Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 17:01:27 GMT From: Frank Crary Subject: Blimps Newsgroups: sci.space In article jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh Hopkins) writes: >It would certianly be possible to actively heat the lifting gas. However, given >that Mars has an atmosphere of CO2 and probably has plenty of native Hydrogen >available for use I don't forsee a real need for active heating. Passive lift >should be just fine thank you. There is a little hydrogen there (that we can currently detect), but it is extremely difficult to get at (it's mostly in the form of atmospheric water amounting to only a few parts per million.) There are theoretical reasons to expect alot more water, possibly in the form of premafrost or subsurface water tables. But none of these have been detected in any way. Until we know more about the planet, it's best to assume that water (and therefore hydrogen) isn't readily available. With alot of machinery and effort, you can get some. Producing one kilo of water would require over 50 kW-hr of input power... >You don't really want a high performance balloon envelope to touch the ground. >Another good reason not to count on active heating for lift (or at least not >all of it). The Russian Mars 94 balloon uses an interesting compromise: It has two envelopes, one holding enough helium to support the envelopes _only_ (i.e. not enough to lift the payload), and a second envelope heated by sunlight. Together, they have enough lift to support the payload. So, during the day, the system would float freely; at night the hot gas envelope would cool, and the payload would land. The helium however, would hold the envelopes safely off the ground. The next morning as the sun heated the gas, the process would repeat. >I would assume that for any near term dirigible one would use an electric >motor. It might be powered by a fuel cell or nukes, but solar power seems >more likely. If we are assuming a pre-existant base, I think chemical energy would be the best option: It's quite easy to seperate carbon dioxide into carbon monoxide and oxygen. It would be fairly easy for a base to produce, and exploration vehicles to burn, this sort of fuel. Frank Crary CU Boulder ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 93 14:37:04 GMT From: George Hastings Subject: Bullets in Space Newsgroups: sci.space Brandon France (fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu ) writes: > I just started reading this newsgroup so if this question has been asked > before please respond via email. > > What would happen if an astronaut was in a geostationary orbit and fired > a rifle directly toward the earth? What path would the bullet take? > Would the bullet actually hit the earth or would it assume some orbit? > > Brandon > fsbgf@acad3.alaska.edu Assuming that the rifle was pointed at right angles to the velocity vector, the bullet would not hit the Earth. The acceleration of the bullet toward the Earth would increase as the distance between the Earth and bullet decreased, but remember that the bullet is travelling along an orbital path sideways as it is going forward. The path it would follow would "cut the corner" like a race car dropping down from the outside edge of the track to closer to the inside of the track. As it accelerated from the increasing pull of gravity it would reach its maximum velocity at its closest approach to the Earth's surface. Then its path would begin to climb again, back toward the original orbital position. Du to the increased velocity, it would pass the original orbital altitude and continue some distance beyond before reaching it maximum orbital height and starting back to it low point again. You would have succeeded in putting the bullet (and yourself) into elliptical rather than circular orbit. Question back to you: if the bullet in its new orbit spends part of its time travelling faster than the original geo-synchronous speed and part of the time travelling slower than geo-synchronous speed, is its new orbital period still 24 hours? --- ____________________________________________________________ | George Hastings ghasting@vdoe386.vak12ed.edu | | Space Science Teacher 72407.22@compuserve.com | If it's not | Mathematics & Science Center STAREACH BBS: 804-343-6533 | FUN, it's | 2304 Hartman Street OFFICE: 804-343-6525 | probably not | Richmond, VA 23223 FAX: 804-343-6529 | SCIENCE! ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 26 Feb 93 20:13:17 PST From: Jason Cooper Subject: Bussard GIF Newsgroups: sci.space section 1 of uuencode 5.10 of file bussard.zip by R.E.M. begin 644 bussard.zip M4$L#!`H``````,Z=6AI4.JRY)T$``"=!```,````15A00E-34D0N1TE&1TE& M.#=AT`+``X<``````+\```"_`+^_````O[\`OP"_O\#`P("`@/\```#_`/__ M````__\`_P#______P`"@^6JP`MV8`'7X+#(DI#)"P7V?W2*=P`"@VLQO'%[ MK6J]%245F1Z-:0[N+/M<>P`"@R\?\K+B8'CDW1^Y^?I`YA!Y64^6'0`"@_*K M^O)8;=Z3^JTW#J0/\O4>VZ.?>``"A&1E>29@9@!D9DHO8GQ:7R9P;3L:*@`" MA%=*2W0Y,1@O)G)L4#,KV*]B8,`89``"A$YN8%!$%AE(0!8M"`-D;?D`ZP$^ M[0`"A)+8KP)^"KF?;NU/G2;"`GW=]D5#KH/&@"W```"A0)]T1I5854.!^T* MLY-7)O1=/@8;`@`"A?Z%$40#$'\&!8W/@S`I(TVP/E=4O``"A0!^]``;Q+X; M9U,E/C]@SM))U54,B@`"A25QMDU)%D`K&J?0AS\;!8%**@$#'@`"A"(-DGF!;CN!``"A1D+`?WR_`L8C(@`"A;D6!I_LZ,MSW$2=)'H05O!SA9N48``" MACUS=/`1O.X+$00>N8KZ$`&+#$,"9``"A@1O"A%[S"0!`/$!^[Z2"^A)I+<) MMP`"AJWNJ>\O&\$3[.[MH''P'7^R"3P(I@`"A@KEDS2E#S0[;EI'0GRSK$AA M[0D@```"AD@'6V]V8*H#>&1^!A@H,VD0@"MI80`"AFUA8`3A8GMY?TY4&?=N M?B-K<0[7<0`"AL#&R201!9IY)%( M)JGDDDPVZ>234$8IY9145FGEE5AFJ>667';IY9=@ABGFF&26:>:9:*:IYIIL MMNGFFW#&*>><=-9IYYUXYJGGGGSVZ>>?@`8JZ*"$%FKHH8@FJNBBC#;JZ*.0 M1BKII)16:NFEF&:JZ::<=NKIIZ"&*NJHI)9JZJFHIJKJJJRVZNJK_K#&*NNL MM-9JZZVXYJKKKKSVZNNOP`8K[+#$%FOLL<@FJ^RRS#;K[+/01BOMM-16:^VU MV&:K;5$`%-0M0M\2%*Y#XYI4KKC;6E;NN0.Q*Y"[[[H$+[P+T4MONFNMF]"\ M"MT[$K\3V8LO7?J^"T"XW1[<[@,'(ZPPPP\[C##$!R7\[<,&CZOPQ0LSW"[& MWD:,<<,9?SSQQ2`/_%##++?L\LLPQRSSS#.+ZW*\.$><<\<>]]SSQ!3[_+'! 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Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.electronics,sci.aeronautics,sci.chem,sci.engr In article henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1993Feb26.153056.18059@cbfsb.cb.att.com> rizzo@cbnewsf.cb.att.com (anthony.r.rizzo) writes: >>I recall reading about iron-titanium-hydride (or some similar material) >>for storing H2 in a high energy density, low pressure, room temperature, >>mostly solid form... >There has been experimental work on this kind of thing, but with the >possible exception of whatever's done inside nickel-hydrogen batteries, >I know of no operational systems using it. My understanding is that >it is extremely heavy for the weight of hydrogen it carries. I did some simple calculations, mainly to refute the environmentalists. From a weight standpoint, LH is obviously the best, but it is extremely high volume at any reasonable pressure. For hydrogen compounds, on a per weight basis, methane checks in at 25% hydrogen. The best that inorganic hydrides can do comes from the light elements, with LiH being 14% H, BeH2 being 18%, BH3 21%. Saturated hydrocarbons do fairly well, being at least 12.5% H, and gasoline (octane) being 15.8% H. I do not know how much density of H can be maintained by the heavy hydrides, but as far as I know, liquid or solid hydrocarbons are hard to beat, and liquids have other advantages. -- Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399 Phone: (317)494-6054 hrubin@snap.stat.purdue.edu (Internet, bitnet) {purdue,pur-ee}!snap.stat!hrubin(UUCP) ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 16:37:45 GMT From: Rajesh Batra Subject: Help on Catching this REVISITED Newsgroups: sci.space In article rbatra@uceng.uc.edu (Rajesh Batra) writes: > Hi, > > Here's a problem that I'm just plain stuck on, see if you can help. > > Scenerio: You're on the moon, a 1700 m/s container (containing ice) >which The object will be travelling at more like 1500 m/s... -R.B. > weighs approximately 120 kg is hurled at you. How do you catch it such > that you can salvage the ice? You have free reign over the container- > hence the size/material. ---------------------------- Edward Ruden replies: Launch the ice from space in a lunar orbit which is tangent to the lunar surface at the orbit's perigee. This is possible since there is no atmosphere to bring the load down prematurely. Your "catcher" then, regardless of its nature, can be laid out along a great length of the lunar surface since the load will be coming in horizontally. This will keep the decellaration of (and therefore forces on) the load to a minimum. A very desirable feature of the catcher would be that it be moving at about the same velocity as the load at the point of contact. this means, of course, it will have to run along and catch it before pulling it down to rest. Another idea: The ice is launched as a sphere of, say, 1m diameter, and is accurately aimed at a long, narrowly tapered conical hole in the lunar surface. The cone openning is about 10m in diameter, is heavily lined with steel, and sunk into solid bedrock for strength. The cone angle is sufficiently small that the ice sphere, coming in parrallel to the cone axis, will not dent the steel wall upon grazing angle impact. The ice, however, may at that point disinitigrate into ice cubes. The cone is used to inject the ice into a steel tube somewhat over 1m in diameter which is also sunk into the bedrock for strength. The tube is bent to give a radius of curvature of about 100 m. The centripital acceleration of the ice fragments will be on the order of 1000 g's. The tube can be built to withstand this since ice on steel has very little abrasiveness and the pressure is tolerable for steel in bedrock. The ice, however, will melt and vaporize from the friction. The tube can curve back on itself so that the H2O can race around in a loop until its kinectic energy is expended. Within the first second or less of injection, a vacuum tight gate valve closed off the conical injectors throat so that the water vapor doesn't escape. The tube is kept warm enough to prevent condensation while the water vapor is pumped out of the tube with a condensation (cryo) pump to slake the thirst of the colonists. Side note: there may (still) be some advantage to having the ice come in horizontally by having the collection point at perigee. The steel ring could then be layed flat, with the tubing at a nominally constant depth below the lunar surface. This reduces construction costs Also, if terminal guidance is needed for the ice to hit the hole, the carrier can release the ice about 1 km from the hole, give itself a small boost to miss the lunar surface, and return to space for reused. Edward Ruden ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks Edward, As well as the many others who have e-mailed me with suggestions, The solution I have been working on (mathematically) for feasibility has been the funnel idea mentioned above. There are a few differences, however. 1) Rather than being injected into a circular steel tube, it will enter a vat of water (I'm still studying ice-water impacts (I've found journal articles with solid-water impacts and am assuming that ice will act in the same way- any suggestions appreciated)). Hopefully, the water will absorb the impact. From what I've heard, a 45 caliber bullet traveling at about 240 m/s needs 16 inches of water to stop. 2) The electrical engineers who are handling the moon's communication network will already have a satellite in orbit, they will be willing to track the trajectory of the ice, and notify my catcher where it will land. My catcher will move to the desired catch location. The catcher drives on a 100 meter diameter paved road- the railgun people are confident that they can get the ice to land somewhere within this hundred meters. The large funnel has pitch adjustments as well. 3) As mentioned by Edward above, it will have a valve at the entrance of the funnel that will close immediately, to avoid loss due to vaporization. The nuclear engineers have plenty of heat they wish to rid themselves of, so I can use that to increase pressure/temperature to turn the ice shards back into water. Originally, the idea was to catch the ice in orbit and build a processing facility there. (The ice is being launched from the North Pole of the MOON (presumably, ice was found there)). This made sense, since the moon was primarily a gas station on the way to Mars. Unfortunately, the RFP we received specified that the processing facility be built at the equator. We did not wish to maintain a catcher around the orbit of the moon, since the orbit would be difficult to keep for any length of time without fuel consumption. Again thanks for the great input! Usenet is definitely the power of thousand thinkers! Rajesh Batra University of Cincinnati rbatra@uceng.uc.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 15:37:42 GMT From: "Phil G. Fraering" Subject: McElwaine disciplined! (somewhat long) Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,sci.space,sci.astro,sci.space.shuttle carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU (Carl J Lydick) writes: >In article , wiegand@rtsg.mot.com (Robert Wiegand) writes: >If you do that, he interprets your returning his junk mail to him as >harassment and sends mail to you system manager asking that you be >denied access to the net. I speak from experience here. In my case, >he didn't seem to understand that when he sent mail to my system >manager (postmaster@sol1.gps.caltech.edu), that was just a forwarding >address to me. So he goes around demanding that your net access be cut off if you send to him _once_ what he dumps onto tens of thousands of news feeds all around the world several times a month? If we reacted as he did, he wouldn't be able to use ground mail without a special note from his Congressman and his mother. Who is this guy? And I'm dying to know: was this Lydick fellow disciplined for his misuse of the net? ;-) Seriously, speaking of misuse of the net, your message above was a little wide, and I had to reformat to be able to quote it without looking wierd. And: are you guys with vaxen more inconveinenced by this sort of thing than those of us using unix? >Carl J Lydick | INTERnet: CARL@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU | NSI/HEPnet: SOL1::CARL >Disclaimer: Hey, I understand VAXen and VMS. That's what I get paid for. My >understanding of astronomy is purely at the amateur level (or below). So >unless what I'm saying is directly related to VAX/VMS, don't hold me or my >organization responsible for it. If it IS related to VAX/VMS, you can try to >hold me responsible for it, but my organization had nothing to do with it. -- Phil Fraering |"...drag them, kicking and screaming, pgf@srl02.cacs.usl.edu|into the Century of the Fruitbat." - Terry Pratchett, _Reaper Man_ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 28 Feb 1993 16:44:45 GMT From: Frank Crary Subject: Refueling in orbit Newsgroups: sci.space In article <76619@cup.portal.com> BrianT@cup.portal.com (Brian Stuart Thorn) writes: >>Well. Would the phrase faster, cheaper, better come to mind? >>As TOm munoz pointed out, the THrusters carry 6,500 lbm of fuel >>and weigh 5,000 lbm. given the fact you are having to haul the >>thrusters back to orbit that's a lot of money. at 10,000 dollars/pound. >>that's 50 million dollars. Doesn't money mean anything to you? > Of course it does, but lives mean more. As I said, NASA chose the > safer of two methods. You have not made any comment on that point. From 1978 to the present, the Soviets (or Russians) have launched roughly one automated refueling mission per month. Out of over a hundred such missions, they have experienced one mechanical failure that damaged one of the station's station keeping motors and about half-a-dozen failures to dock properly which resulted in an aborted mission and a short delay in resupply. That's a ~95% reliability at keeping schedueles and over 99% reliability at avoiding serious accidents. _None_ of the failures seriously threatened the crew. In light of this, I have trouble seeing how automated docking/refueling could be rejected as unsafe. Frank Crary CU Boulder ------------------------------ Date: 28 Feb 1993 16:12:56 GMT From: John F Carr Subject: Why Apollo didn't continue? Newsgroups: sci.space I was born in 1967 so I didn't pay much attention to Apollo at the time, but I wrote a paper in high school on the political uses of the space program. Doing research for this paper, I had a strong impression from reading about Apollo that the program had fulfilled its political purpose and could be allowed to die without making the US look bad. -- John Carr (jfc@athena.mit.edu) ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 250 ------------------------------