Date: Mon, 22 Feb 93 05:39:44 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #215 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Mon, 22 Feb 93 Volume 16 : Issue 215 Today's Topics: 0891 : Betelgeuse fades!!! European space efforts Galileo CD-ROMs Henry Spencer stamps How many RPM's around his own axle can human take? Neil Armstrong Nobody cares about Fred? (4 msgs) Price for meteorites Regularly updated Weather images online and avilable for ftp SSF Dead Titan or Bust! (Saturn Moon)... Wanted: Solid Rocket Fuel Recipes .... Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 06:25:57 GMT From: apryan@vax1.tcd.ie Subject: 0891 : Betelgeuse fades!!! Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space Betelgeuse has faded by a factor of two!!! Last time this happened was over four years ago. UK and Irish netters will have already heard this on our telephone newslines, if they call every week (new message every Monday morning tells you what to watch for in the week ahead). Please pass the number on to your local astronomical society in U.K. newslines (48p/36p per min): 0891-88-1950 (UK/NI) 1550-111-442 (Eire) -Tony Ryan, "Astronomy & Space", new UK magazine, P.O.Box 2888, Dublin 1, Ireland. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 06:13:32 GMT From: Josh Hopkins Subject: European space efforts Newsgroups: sci.space henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: >(Rohit Sharma) writes: >> Given a high degree of collaboration between ESA and CSA and >>possibly between these two and JSA, would a non-US-Govt space station be >>feasible ? >There's nothing very much wrong with the idea, actually, except the >difficulty of convincing these agencies that it can be done at a sane >cost. (If they're sure it's going to cost a bundle, you can bet your >booties that their contractors won't argue.) >ESA has the launch capability, which NASDA could supplement. The main >gap in the combined resources is manned-spaceflight experience and >hardware, so you'd have to start by developing something like a semi- >ballistic manned capsule for Ariane 4 and flying it at least a few times. >You'd also need spacesuits, a rendezvous/docking system, and probably >a couple of data-relay satellites (to avoid having to set up a global >network of ground stations). Let's not forget that until a year or so ago, ESA was planning to build its own station. They did design a space suit and HERA (HErmes Robot Arm?) and they have an astronaut corps of sorts. I seem to remeber ESA planning some sort of data relay system though I don't know if it would be up to snuff for manned spaceflight. As you said, they certainly have the ability. They just don't have the money. -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu You only live once. But if you live it right, once is enough. In memoria, WDH ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 1993 00:13 UT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Galileo CD-ROMs Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary,alt.cd-rom ===================== GALILEO CD-ROMs February 21, 1993 ===================== Five Galileo CD-ROMs (volumes 2 through 6) have been released by the Galileo project. These CD-ROMs contains the raw images taken by the Galileo spacecraft on its Venus flyby in February 1990 and its first flyby of the Earth and Moon in December 1990. The CD-ROMs can be obtained from the National Space Science Data Center (NSSDC) at the Goddard Space Flight Center. The charge for the CD-ROMs is $20 for the first CD-ROM, and $6 for any additional CD-ROM in an order. The charges can be waived in certain hardship cases, contact NSSDC for more details on this. NSSDC's address is: National Space Science Data Center Goddard Space Flight Center Greenbelt, Maryland 20771 Phone: (301) 286-6695 Email address: request@nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov You can also reach NSSDC by logging on to their computer. To log onto the NSSDC computer, telnet to NSSDC.GSFC.NASA.GOV and give the username "NSSDC". You will then be connected to a menu system which allows you to use the "Master Directory". You can also leave questions and orders for the NSSDC staff. If this is the first time you have used the NSSDC "NODIS" system, it will ask you for information (name, address, ...) to keep a database of NSSDC users. Software the display the images on an IBM PC or Macintosh is available from NSSDC ($9 shipping and handling charge). The software is also available using anonymous ftp to ames.arc.nasa.gov in the pub/SPACE/SOFTWARE directory. ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | If you don't stand for /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | something, you'll fall |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | for anything. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Feb 93 07:05:45 GMT From: Craig Keithley Subject: Henry Spencer stamps Newsgroups: sci.space In article , henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) wrote: > > > Well, not quite right, although it's a first approximation. I think > there's still a picture of me in the UUNET face-saver archive, although > it's a few years old. > -- Now Henry, be honest, your picture (and the person purporting to be you on your trip to Making Orbit and out Mary's way) is isn't really you. In some previous email (to Randy Mooney and I, lurking here at Apple) you accidently revealed yourself to be an AI. This picture and the person visiting Mary must just be your creator. ;-) Kind of reminds me of "The Adolesence of P-1". ;-) Craig Keithley Apple Computer, Inc. keithley@apple.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1993 22:57:31 +0000 From: Andrew Haveland-Robinson Subject: How many RPM's around his own axle can human take? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Feb20.194739.10791@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> fcrary@ucsu.Colorado.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: >In article <1993Feb20.174650.5083@prime.mdata.fi> jjj@mits.mdata.fi (Joni Jarvenkyla) writes: >>How many RPM's around his own axle can a human take? Just a little snippet... Recently in the UK news, there was a story of a cat that crept into a washing machine while the owner wasn't looking and went for a spin... Miraculously it survived I guess 1,000 rpm - if anyone would like to work out the G force... It was one hell of a bedraggled, shocked and clean moggie! Andy. +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Haveland-Robinson Associates | Email: andy@osea.demon.co.uk | | 54 Greenfield Road, London | ahaveland@cix.compulink.co.uk | | N15 5EP England. 081-800 1708 | Also: 0621-88756 081-802 4502 | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ <<>> Those that can, use applications. Those that can't, write them! <<>> > Some dream of doing great things, while others stay awake and do them < ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 05:49:33 GMT From: apryan@vax1.tcd.ie Subject: Neil Armstrong Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro Does anyone know the current whereabouts of Neil Armstrong? What does he do these days? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 00:47:27 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Nobody cares about Fred? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <76000@cup.portal.com> BrianT@cup.portal.com (Brian Stuart Thorn) writes: > I'm confused again, Allen. Why do you say that "the Hare" (the US) > thinks that refueling is too dangerous? Because when I asked an engineer working logistics at the Freedom program office why Freedom stationkeeping thrusters wouldn't be refueled in space he told me it was considered too dangerous. > refuel. The Freedom design, at least until Billary killed it, called > for either refuelling or complete changeout of propulsion modules. The plan was to bring the whole mdoule back. This is far more expensive then refueling. > As an aside, wouldn't you be happier if we just bought Russia's > refuelling technology? I think it would be a good idea to have a look at it. Look, there is a difference between using Soyuz or Energia to leverage and save some $$ and not developing a key technology. I advocate the former, not the latter. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------114 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 93 01:16:39 GMT From: "Allen W. Sherzer" Subject: Nobody cares about Fred? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <18FEB199319001794@judy.uh.edu> wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov writes: >I have never seen any post from an SSF engineer on the truss in the year >that I have been reading sci.space. Come on Dennis, it was less than a month ago! The poster said he could still remember the day they told the chief engineer the day they all told him the truss just wasn't going to work. >if the problem that you say is there was there, then there would have been >people screaming from the rooftops about it. They where Dennis. >Something stinks in that little "confidential reporting" Again Dennis, if you are calling me a liar then 1) have the courage to say it directly and 2) give me the apology you owe me for calling me a liar. >well why don't you send the documents to the Washington post to bolster >your position. Because the engineers asked me not to. Besides, there was no need, they already knew. >>Are you saying I am lying about this? >I am saying that you are being one heck of a lot less than truthful about >what you are saying. Excuse me? Does "less than truthful" mean liar? See above. >NASA has one problem that I see every day and that is too much reliance on >simulation. Gee Dennis, that is what I have been saying. >>This doesn't mean we don't need a station, it simply means that fred >>isn't it. >What you you know about worth Allen? Well I have done a lot of cost-benefit analysis in my career. >You hate the truss... Dennis, you use a lot of emotional words to describe my motivations. I think this is putting up a smoke screen for you. I don't hate the truss I simply don't think that WP2 has in its history has been cost effective. That doesn't mean trusses are a bad idea, it simply means that THIS truss isn't spending my tax $$ effectively. >shows and you are advocating an approach to procurement that simply does not >work as long as the General Services Administration has rule over the >procuremtn process. Yet SDIO has no problems getting around them to run a very effective and efficient SSTO research program. >Heck yes SSF can be built cheaper. Get NASA some >independace from the bureaucrats and let them procure like a private business. Dennis, the only thing preventing that from happening is NASA. There is absolutely NO reason NASA couldn't procure a station commercially. The only thing is that NASA's ass isn't coverd if they do it that way. >Why don't you start advocating things that will help like this instead of >anti-Nasa diatribes that serve no good. Well I have been. I worked very hard on the Launch Services Purchase Act and the various commercial bills. I am in regular contact with the sponsors of these bills and have often worked to pressure key representatives to promote passage. I have been told by some of those same people that I have been effective. However, the major impediments are the fact that NASA simply has no desire to use these changes. They prefer the safer world where everything costs an order of magnitude more than is needed but everybody's ass is covered. >I still challenge you to start that business because if you do what you >are so sure you are right about we will have the planet's best, cheapest >and most productive space program. This is not a taunt it is an iniviation >to just do it. I don't know if I could form the buisness or not. I do however know that as long as NASA stays the way it is now, costs will not come down and inovation will be suppressed. Allen -- +---------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | Allen W. Sherzer | "A great man is one who does nothing but leaves | | aws@iti.org | nothing undone" | +----------------------114 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 21 Feb 1993 22:33:23 -0500 From: Matthew DeLuca Subject: Nobody cares about Fred? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Feb22.011639.2517@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: >Again Dennis, if you are calling me a liar then 1) have the courage to >say it directly and 2) give me the apology you owe me for calling me a >liar. As Gandalf said, "That word [lie] comes too oft and easily to your lips." This is at least the fifth time I've seen you accuse someone of accusing you of being a liar this week; the fact that someone doesn't believe you doesn't necessarily mean they think you are lying, they may just think you are plain incorrect. Your persecution complex is showing. -- Matthew DeLuca Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta Georgia, 30332 uucp: ...!{decvax,hplabs,ncar,purdue,rutgers}!gatech!prism!matthew Internet: matthew@phantom.gatech.edu ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 93 05:33:49 GMT From: John Andrusiak Subject: Nobody cares about Fred? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Feb18.231013.25001@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> Brad Whitehurst, rbw3q@rayleigh.mech.Virginia.EDU writes: > Welll, Allen, I'm just a lowly mechanical engineer (hate those >li'l electrons!!), but I would propose that there are some qualitative >differences in forging a large, mechanical assembly out of steel, >aluminum, and composites, compared to primarily software >constructions. The laws of physics tend to thwart many of my best >ideas! :-) Natural laws, particularly with respect to materials' >behaviours, are far from perfectly understood, especially outside >research labs. I can well understand how difficulties ("design error" >assumes a goof...sometimes there's no predicting somethings) may >appear in a new project far into the construction. Software, while >vastly more complicated now than ever, is still a construct of the >mind of man. The mind of God (nature, whatever) is vastly more >complex, and it is sheer hubris to assume full knowledge of the >physical world, much less that the knowledge will be fully and >perfectly applied to a physical construction. Whoa.. If I understand this, your saying that because physics is a natural science it is very complex, but because software is man-made it is perfectly understandable. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As any software programmer can tell you, any program over a dozen lines quickly assumes a life of it's own. Programs the size of operating systems actually have a kind of "personality". With large programs interactions frequently occur that you would have never of thought possible. In fact, materials engineering seems to be a better understood science that software engineering, if only because materials engineering has been around longer. As an example, you can design bridges that will be guaranteed to last for 50 years. A software programmer will never guarantee that a program he's written will last more than 5 minutes without a bugfix. Now for my comment on Freedom. It seems we're getting a major redesign of the space station, now that Clinton's slashed the budget. This seems to be having the effect of pushing the completion date back even further that it already has been. Isn't it time for NASA to take the research it has and make an absolute commitment to design a space station that can be built and launched before the next presidential election? I think that they should concentrate on getting something up there before somebody changes their mind and cuts the budget is cut to zero. -------------------------------------- John Andrusiak - umandru1@umanitoba.ca ------------------------------ Date: 22 Feb 93 08:31:04 GMT From: "Frederick A. Ringwald" Subject: Price for meteorites Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro In article <1lnlgvINNq1s@morrow.stanford.edu> joe@oas.stanford.edu (Joe Dellinger) writes: > And is there any reason for major interstate highways to pass SO > close to meteor craters? Something to do with magnetic fields, no doubt. ;-) Seriously, there is a market for meteorites: check the ads in Sky & Telescope and Astronomy magazines for ideas of how much you can get. But generally, unless you have something rare and wonderful - or very large - if you have to travel cross-country to sell your meteorite, the money you'll get for it won't pay the cost of the trip. Keep in mind, too, that about 90% of the time, what appears to be a meteorite is just a piece of industrial slag, from steelmaking. What makes you think it is a meteorite, anyway? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 03:49:04 GMT From: "Milo S. Medin" Subject: Regularly updated Weather images online and avilable for ftp Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.geo.meteorology Folks, we're now announcing for public access a set of files available for anonymous ftp, containing scientific quality weather satellite images. Initially, we have regular collection of Japanese GMS images, both in IR and visible light. These images are received at a ground station at Hickam AFB, HI, and processed at the University of Hawaii, then moved to an archive site at NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field CA. From there, they are copied to shadow archives sites. Each archive site contains the last 4 days worth of images transmitted by the GMS satellite on a revolving basis. The GMS satellite transmits 28 sets of images per 24-hour cycle. Of those, 24 are hourly observations and the other 4 are half-hourly observations made for the purpose of getting accurate wind-speed readings. Each set of images consists of two images: one IR and one VIS image. The IR images have a resolution of 5km while the VIS images have a resolution of 1.25km. Because of the large size of the VIS images, we have been subsampling them down to a resolution of 5km; i.e., we have made the resolution match the native IR resolution. We will eventually provide full-resolution VIS imagery as well, but it will probably be a while. The directory structure in each place looks like the following: gms / \ ir vis / \ / \ hdf gif hdf gif Each of the directories labelled hdf contains images in HDF format and each of the directories labelled gif contain images in GIF format. The intent is for the HDF files to contain true research quality data while the GIF files are meant to contain visually appealing data. Thus you should not expect the GIF files to contain research quality data. We *will* be enhancing - and thus adulterating - these files. But the HDF files are guaranteed to be unenhanced. A problem with the HDF files so far is that no navigational data has been included. We apologize for this; it's the result of us just not having gotten it done yet. We have concentrated on building the software to create reliable revolving archives and we have not put all the effort into extracting the navigation information until very recently. However, we are now working on doing this and within 1-2 weeks, each of the HDF files will have a header containing all of the satellite parameters and then you will be able to do the navigation. Also, we are considering providing pre-navigated data as well for those who do not wish to do the navigation themselves. Again, sorry this is not in yet. It's coming though. Right now, the following archive sites are available for access by anonymous FTP. explorer.arc.nasa.gov ~ftp/pub/Weather plaza.aarnet.edu.au ~ftp/Weather Only Australian sites should use the archive at plaza.aarnet.edu.au. Explorer is located at NASA Ames, and is a LAN away from FIX-West, which should be closest to most folks, as it has close access to NSI, NSFNET, ESNET, Milnet, etc... Explorer is also running with a modified FTP server that supports large socket buffer sizes which allows TCP windows to expand up to the limit, so if you are on the other end of a high delay Internet path, and have a good ftp client that also uses bigger windows, you should get good performance during transfers. Note that these images are quite large. The GIF images alone run about 2-3 MB each, so if you aren't connected via a T1 based infrastructure, please don't try and download everything in sight. We are also working on setting up a site on the east coast at the NASA Goddard Space Flight Center, and for European access at UCL in London. The GSFC site will be the primary archive for NOAA GOES images, and the London site will be the primary archive for European METSAT data, though these files will also be migrated to the other archive sites so that all archives contain the same information. We also may be able to provide South polar images from a downlink site at McMurdo base via another Internet link to them. As new archives come online, messages updating this information will be sent out. This work is a combination of efforts by the University of Hawaii, the NASA Office of Space Science and Applications, and the NASA NREN Project Office (which sponsors access as part of it's educational outreach program), with help from a number of other organizations worldwide. Also, the explorer.arc.nasa.gov host also has 84 CD-ROM drives online, with the full CD-ROM sets of Viking, Magellan, and Voyager data online and ftpable. These data sets are located in the ~ftp/cdrom directory, and are mounted in 14 Pioneer CD changer drives. For more information, feel free to contact myself or Torben Nielsen (torben@hawaii.edu). Thanks, Milo ------------------------------ Date: 18 Feb 93 19:29:29 GMT From: George Foutrakis Subject: SSF Dead Newsgroups: sci.space Your "reliable source" inside NASA must have watched the Presidential Address just like everyone else. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Feb 93 23:35:38 GMT From: Brian Stuart Thorn Subject: Titan or Bust! (Saturn Moon)... Newsgroups: sci.space >Even using chemical rockets, a transfer orbit to Saturn shouldn't >take more than five years. (The outer solar system is big, >but not quite that big.) I think Cassini is using another series of >Earth and Venus flybys like Galileo (I have no idea why: I'd think >a direct launch on a Titan IV would be possible...) If more advanced >propulsion (nuclear thermal or nuclear electric) were available, >I'd expect the transfer time to drop below three years (or the payload >to increase dramatically, which ever you prefer...) > > Frank Crary > CU Boulder Getting to Saturn has been done in 4 1/2 years (Voyager 1), but Voyager wasn't stopping at Saturn. Cassini can't be going so fast that it cannot enter Saturnian orbit. Hence a more leisurely flighttime. Cassini is indeed beyond Titan IV/Centaur direct ascent launch capability, so we get Venus/Venus/Earth/Jupiter instead. If the uprated Solids for Titan IV are not available (they aren't yet) then Cassini will have to go on a diet, I think. -Brian ------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Who knows... all this might just be Brian S. Thorn an elaborate simulation running inside BrianT@cup.portal.com a little device sitting on someone's table." -Captain Picard, 'Ship in a Bottle' ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 21 Feb 93 15:58:46 -0700 From: pollarda@physc1.byu.edu Subject: Wanted: Solid Rocket Fuel Recipes .... Newsgroups: sci.space I am looking for a source of solid rocket fuel recipes. (for example Galcite which was made of tar/ammonium perchlorate --- as I recall.) Basically, what I would like is the _actual_ recipe (not just what is in it) as well as the technical information that goes with it -- such as burn speed, specific impulse, etc. Are there any books or documentation along these lines? I have _never_ seen anything specific enough and have watched for this information for a _long_ time. Any suggestions would be appreciated! ThanX, Art Pollarda@xray.byu.edu PLEASE: Email me as I don't follow this newsgroup regularly..... ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 215 ------------------------------