Date: Sat, 30 Jan 93 05:08:00 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #094 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sat, 30 Jan 93 Volume 16 : Issue 094 Today's Topics: Clinton's Promises (space) in Charlotte Observer Elementary Ballistics Galileo Laser Test Successful IMDISP 7.9 and VESA Missions to Mars Reason for SSTO/DCX and Market (2 msgs) Solar Sail Formulae-help needed!! Space Calendar - 01/28/93 (2 msgs) speaker measurment help needed Surface map of Venus Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger (5 msgs) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 00:25:41 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: Newsgroups: sci.space Catch-22 or Off-the-shelf. Its like the FOG-M, Fiber Optical Guided Missle.. Designed by a tech with off the shelf tech. And the DOD inner circle tried as much to kill it.. It ws cheap and easier to build, but it was not part of the establishment procurement process.. I think the Dod finally accespted the idea after leagel fights, bribes and kick backs and a large fortune to go thru the normal-channels.. So I doubt NASA will ever build the SSTO or DC-X.. Its juse to normal and cheaper.. == Michael Adams, nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Im not high, just jacked ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 08:40:42 GMT From: Ian Taylor Subject: Clinton's Promises (space) in Charlotte Observer Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Jan27.021023.8557@pages.com> bwebster@pages.com writes: >the space industry at various levels. I happen to think that the best thing >Clinton could do would be to kill SS Fred and offer $10B, tax-free, to the >first US corporation or consortium to put a station on orbit and keep it >staffed by at least X people for a year and day. He should also offer $5B to >the second corporation/consortium to do the same thing. The government would >spend less, create more jobs, and built an 21st century industrial base. Lets play. Ok say Clinton went off his rocker and did just that, does anyone think a US corporation would do it for $10bn, tax free? - assuming this station has a similar specification to Freedom for volume and power and X=4. No subcontracting to the Russians allowed . +-- I -------- fax +43 1 391452 --------------------- voice +43 1 391621 169 --+ | T a y l o r Alcatel Austria Research, Ruthnergasse 5, Vienna A-1210 Austria | +-- n ---- ian@rcvie.co.at --- PSI%023226191002::SE_TAYLOR --- 20731::ian -----+ Self referential, terse, profound yet witty disclaimer ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 05:40:06 GMT From: "Kenneth C. Jenks [GM2] (713" Subject: Elementary Ballistics Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.physics Henry Spencer (henry@zoo.toronto.edu) returned from the grave to write: : (Actually, in practice, what you look up in a table is GM rather than : G and M separately. The gravitational constant is a colossal pain to : measure because gravity is so weak, and it is known to only about four : digits. The GM of a planet will typically be known far more precisely : than M, because GM can be determined directly from satellite orbits : but getting M requires dividing GM by the poorly-known G.) There have been a couple of proposals to go out to DEEP space and measure G experimentally, but none has ever gotten beyond the "paper study" stage. The general idea is to take a couple of BIG masses out between the planets where space is relatively flat gravitaionally and measure their mutual gravitational attraction, while measuring and cancelling out all of the other forces at work on them (electromagetic, electrostatic, solar wind, etc.). From the fundamental equation of gravitational attraction, we could then determine G. When you're done taking your measurements, you have some great big masses of known chemical composition which you might steer into an impact with an asteroid. We'd learn a lot about asteroid composition by watching the resulting bang. Or you could drop them on the moon just to watch them splash. That way we would KNOW how big a crater is made by a meterorite of known mass and velocity. (This would help us date certain areas of the moon better, since we use cratering densities for many of our Lunar dating estimates.) Or you could nudge an Earth-orbit-crossing asteroid a bit and make IT hit the moon. (What uses can YOU think of for two big chunks of metal in space?) Some day, we should get around to measuring G. It's one of the fundamental constants of the Universe, and knowing its value to many decimal places would aid astronomers somewhat. For example, we'd be able to determine the masses of the planets. But LEO has too many perturbing forces to make a near-Earth experiment worthwhile. (Then again, maybe I'm wrong. There are some students out at CalTech who think they can measure G in a Shuttle experiment. I wish them well. If you're interested, you might drop a note to Ben McCall, bjmccall@cco.caltech.edu.) -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "Good ideas are common -- what's uncommon are people who'll work hard enough to bring them about." -- Ashleigh Brilliant ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 13:48:47 GMT From: Ian Taylor Subject: Galileo Laser Test Successful Newsgroups: sci.space In article <9301230715.AA00291@gap.cco.caltech.edu> News about Space from SEDS writes: > Operational use of this technology is anticipated some time >after the year 2000, Lesh added. > "We expect that the first deep space mission to fly optical >will fly it as a mission enhancement experiment," said Lesh, >"although this could change with the new emphasis on low-cost >microspacecraft. Interesting. What data rates are expected from this technology at LEO/GEO/Lunar/Jovian/+ distances? +-- I -------- fax +43 1 391452 --------------------- voice +43 1 391621 169 --+| T a y l o r Alcatel Austria Research, Ruthnergasse 5, Vienna A-1210 Austria |+-- n ---- ian@rcvie.co.at --- PSI%023226191002::SE_TAYLOR --- 20731::ian -----+ Self referential, terse, profound yet witty disclaimer ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:27:12 GMT From: Martin Connors Subject: IMDISP 7.9 and VESA Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro Having had IMDISP7.7a give sort of good results with VESA VGA (nice display of images except there were horizontal lines every 100 or so lines), I downloaded 7.9 and find that I cannot get images to display properly at all - sometimes nothing, sometimes a vertical white bar. Anyone got VESA experience with imdisp 7.9. BTW this is with a Local Bus Tseng T4000-based clone? board, and I use a VESA driver (ETIVESA) in a DOS shell under Windows. -- Martin Connors | Space Research | martin@space.ualberta.ca (403) 492-2526 University of Alberta | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 05:48:39 GMT From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Subject: Missions to Mars Newsgroups: sci.space Fred Baube (flb@flb.optiplan.fi) wrote: [...] : And BTW, does the data re. the long-term deleterious effects of : weightlessness (such as loss of bone mass) point towards use of : a tether to create 0.X G on a Mars mission ? What kind of elec- : trical energy could such a tether generate by its rotation ? : Enough to justify the added gear ? A tether can only generate electricity if it passes across a magnetic field. Aside from a nuisance current generated by the wimpy Solar magnetic field, you couldn't generate any electricity from a tether in interplanetary space. Even near a planet, you should remember that this power is not free. You pay for it in orbital energy. -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "NASA turns dreams into realities and makes science fiction into fact" -- Daniel S. Goldin, NASA Administrator ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jan 93 00:55:05 GMT From: Gary Coffman Subject: Reason for SSTO/DCX and Market Newsgroups: sci.space In article ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes: >In <1993Jan28.135651.18692@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: > >>The ticket will cost (round trip) $100,000 to $200,000 (assuming you pack >>them in like sardiens for a very uncomfortable trip). > >On what do you base that estimate? > >What I heard from Boeing was "an order of magnitude more than >existing jet aircraft," which puts it an order of magnitude >below your figures. Other estimates support this. A round trip ticket on the Concorde costs about $10,000. An order of magnitude higher would be $100,000. Gary -- Gary Coffman KE4ZV | You make it, | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary Destructive Testing Systems | we break it. | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary 534 Shannon Way | Guaranteed! | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary Lawrenceville, GA 30244 | | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 06:26:06 GMT From: "Edward V. Wright" Subject: Reason for SSTO/DCX and Market Newsgroups: sci.space In <1993Jan28.211519.20005@iti.org> aws@iti.org (Allen W. Sherzer) writes: >50 people flying round trip (and in a 15X15X30 space it won't be >comfortable) at a cost of $5M to $10M per flight. $5 to 10M per flight is a high-estimate. McDonnell Douglas is estimating $1-10M per flight but if it is $10M they have, in effect, failed -- the Russians are there already. $1M per flight/50 passengers = $20,000 per passenger. Agreed, the Delta Clipper's payload space is not very efficient for carrying passengers, but I don't think McDAC has yet realized that's a major market. >As to the difference, there are too many factors which could expalin >it. Indeed, it may be possible to cut the cost to $30K in volume but >you won't be able to offer those prices initially. As it is I don't >think the market for $30,000 airline tickets is that great. Obviously, you haven't talked to anyone in the cruise industry. >All things being equal, so would I. However, I wouldn't pay >$27,000 more for it. Would you? In a minute. Especially once those Japanese industrialists get their "Honeymoon Hotel" finished up there. On the other hand, suppose your son needs a critical operation, and the only doctor who can perform it is on the other side of the world. Would you pay an extra $27,000 then? ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 09:43:39 GMT From: Marcus Lindroos INF Subject: Solar Sail Formulae-help needed!! Newsgroups: sci.space On the subject of solar sails, I found these formulae in a Finnish space magazine. Now, since neither Finnish nor English is my first language, I can't guarantee that I got everything right when translating this: #1: "Pressure produced by sunlight hitting a solar sail" p=E(k+1)/c where E=Energy k=reflectivity factor(?) c=speed of light ------------------------------------------------------------------ #2: Acceleration as=(1+k)*1*10^17 As/Mr^2 where As = Sail area M = mass of sail+spacecraft r = Distance from Sun ------------------------------------------------------------------------ #3: Final velocity for a solar sail making a close flyby of the Sun: v=((1+k)^2 * 2 * 10^17As -2.66 * 10^28M) / Mr0 + v0^2) ^ 0.5 where r0 = Distance at periastron(/helion?) v0 = Velocity at periastron v0 can be calculated from : I radius^2 2*aphelion dist. I v0=SQRT I--------------------------------- * -------------------------- * G I I distance at perihelion aphelion dist.+perihelion dist. I --- For example, if the distance at perihelion = 748,000km from the surface [add 696,000km to this], and aphelion = 778,000,000km [Jupiter], and radius of Sun= 696,000km, and the gravity acceleration on the surface, G = .273 km/s v0 will be 427.582km/s. The escape velocity is 427.979km/s The third formula is a bit difficult. It says in the article that Icarus, a solar sail having total mass of 60kg and being "one km across" [is the sail circular or quadratic in shape?], would be accelerated to approx. 3600km/s. But there is no way I can get a correct answer by inserting the quoted figures in the equation! And what are the possible values for k? Is this the same as the albedo for the sail? MARCU$ -------------------------------------------------------------------------- . . . Fififinlandssvensk Marcus Lindroos Internet: mlindroos@abo.fi Computer Science Abo Akademi University Finland ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jan 1993 02:51 UT From: Ron Baalke Subject: Space Calendar - 01/28/93 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,sci.space.shuttle,alt.sci.planetary Here's the latest Space Calendar. Please send any updates or corrections to Ron Baalke (baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov). Note that launch dates are subject to change. The following people made contributions to this month's calendar: o Mike Boschat, maximum times and solar longitudes of all meteor showers. o Doug Ramsay, updated UHF-1 Atlas Launch date (03/11/93). ========================= SPACE CALENDAR January 28, 1993 ========================= * indicates change from last month's calendar January 1993 * Jan 28 - SCD-1 Pegasus Launch (Brazil) Jan 30 - Soyuz TM-15 Lands (Soviet) February 1993 Feb ?? - ALEXIS Pegasus Launch Feb ?? - Consort 6 Starfire Launch Feb 01 - 35th Anniversary, Explorer 1 Launch (1st U.S. Satellite) * Feb 02 - Galaxy 4 Ariane Launch Feb 08 - Mars Observer, 2nd Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-2) Feb 12 - Astro-D M3S-2 Launch (USA/Japan) Feb 18 - Jules Verne's 165th Birthday Feb 19 - Copernicus' 520th Birthday Feb 25 - STS-55, Columbia, Spacelab Germany (SL-D2) March 1993 Mar ?? - Hispasat 1B & Insat 2B Ariane Launch Mar ?? - DFH-3 Long March 2E Launch (China) Mar ?? - GPS/SEDS-1 Delta II Launch Mar 01 - Ulysses, 3rd Opposition * Mar 11 - Galileo, 10 RPM Spinup Test * Mar 11 - UHF-1 Atlas Launch Mar 18 - Mars Observer, 3rd Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-3) * Mar 23 - STS-56, Discovery, Atmospheric Lab for Applications and Science (ATLAS-2) Mar 31 - Commercial Experiment Trasporter (Comet) Conestoga Launch April 1993 Apr ?? - First Test Launch of the DC-X Apr 06 - 20th Anniversary, Pioneer 11 Launch (Jupiter & Saturn Flyby Mission) Apr 19 - Venus/Moon Occultation, Visible from North America Apr 22 - Lyrid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 03:00 UT, Solar Longitude 32.1 degrees) * Apr 28 - STS-57, Endeavour, European Retrievable Carrier (EURECA-1R) May 1993 May ?? - Advanced Photovoltaic Electronics Experiment (APEX) Pegasus Launch May ?? - Radcal Scout Launch May ?? - Astra 1C Ariane Launch May ?? - GPS/PMQ Delta II Launch May 04 - Galileo Enters Asteroid Belt Again * May 04 - Eta Aquarid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 21:00 UT, Solar Lon: 44.5 deg) May 21 - Partial Solar Eclipse, Visible from North America & North Europe May 25 - Magellan, End of Mission? June 1993 Jun ?? - Temisat Meteor 2 Launch Jun ?? - UHF-2 Atlas Launch Jun ?? - NOAA-I Atlas Launch Jun 04 - Lunar Eclipse, Visible from North America Jun 14 - Sakigake, 2nd Earth Flyby (Japan) Jun 22 - 15th Anniversary of Charon Discovery (Pluto's Moon) by Christy July 1993 Jul ?? - MSTI-II Scout Launch Jul 01 - Soyuz Launch (Soviet) Jul 08 - Soyuz Launch (Soviet) Jul 09 - STS-51, Discovery, Advanced Communications Technology Satellite(ACTS) Jul 14 - Soyuz TM-16 Landing (Soviet) Jul 21 - Soyuz TM-17 Landing (Soviet) * Jul 28 - S. Delta Aquarid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 19:00 UT, Solar Longitude 125.8 degrees) Jul 29 - NASA's 35th Birthday August 1993 Aug ?? - ETS-VI (Engineering Test Satellite) H2 Launch (Japan) Aug ?? - GEOS-J Launch Aug ?? - Landsat 6 Launch Aug ?? - SeaWIFS Launch Aug ?? - ORBCOM FDM Pegasus Launch Aug 08 - 15th Anniversary, Pioneer Venus Orbitor 2 Launch Aug 09 - Mars Observer, 4th Trajectory Correction Maneuver (TCM-4) * Aug 12 - N. Delta Aquarids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 07:00 UT, Solar Longitude 139.7 degrees) * Aug 12 - Perseid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 15:00 UT, Solar Longitude 140.1 degrees) Aug 24 - Mars Observer, Mars Orbit Insertion (MOI) * Aug 25 - STS-58, Columbia, Spacelab Life Sciences (SLS-2) Aug 28 - Galileo, Asteroid Ida Flyby September 1993 Sep ?? - SPOT-3 Ariane Launch Sep ?? - Tubsat Launch Sep ?? - Seastar Pegasus Launch Sep ?? - EPOT-3/ASAP-4 Ariane Launch October 1993 Oct ?? - Intelsat 7 F1 Ariane Launch Oct ?? - SLV-1 Pegasus Launch Oct ?? - Telstar 4 Atlas Launch * Oct 22 - Orionid Meteor Shower (Maximum: 00:00 UT, Solar Longitude 208.7 degrees) November 1993 Nov ?? - Solidaridad Ariane Launch Nov 03 - 20th Anniversary, Mariner 10 Launch (Mercury & Venus Flyby Mission) Nov 03 - S. Taurid Meteor Shower Nov 04 - Galileo Exits Asteroid Belt Nov 06 - Mercury Transits Across the Sun, Visible from Asia, Australia, and the South Pacific Nov 13 - Partial Solar Eclipse, Visible from Southern Hemisphere * Nov 10 - STS-60, Discovery, SPACEHAB-2 * Nov 17 - Leonids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 13:00 UT, Solar Longitude 235.3 degrees) Nov 28-29 - Total Lunar Eclipse, Visible from North America & South America December 1993 Dec ?? - GOES-I Atlas Launch Dec ?? - NATO 4B Delta Launch Dec ?? - FAST Scout Launch Dec ?? - TOMS Pegasus Launch Dec ?? - DirectTv 1 & Thiacom 1 Ariane Launch Dec ?? - ISTP Wind Delta-2 Launch Dec ?? - STEP-2 Pegasus Launch Dec 01 - Mars Observer, Mapping Orbit Established * Dec 02 - STS-61, Endeavour, Hubble Space Telescope Repair Dec 04 - SPEKTR-R Launch (Soviet) Dec 05 - 20 Anniversary, Pioneer 10 Launch (Jupiter Flyby Mission) Dec 08 - Mars Observer, Mars Equinox * Dec 14 - Geminids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 00:00 UT, Solar Longitude 262.1 degrees) Dec 20 - Mars Observer, Solar Conjunction * Dec 23 - Ursids Meteor Shower (Maximum: 01:00 UT, Solar Longitude 271.3 degrees) January 1994 * Jan 02 - Mars Observer, End of Solar Conjunction * Jan 22 - Mars Observer, Mapping Begins * Jan 24 - Clementine Titan IIG Launch (Lunar Orbiter, Asteroid Flyby Mission) ___ _____ ___ /_ /| /____/ \ /_ /| Ron Baalke | baalke@kelvin.jpl.nasa.gov | | | | __ \ /| | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | ___| | | | |__) |/ | | |__ M/S 525-3684 Telos | Every once in a while, /___| | | | ___/ | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | try pushing your luck. |_____|/ |_|/ |_____|/ | ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 04:00:28 GMT From: Jeff Bulf Subject: Space Calendar - 01/28/93 Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,sci.space.shuttle,alt.sci.planetary Nice Calendar! May I offer a couple of additions... May ?? - 15th Anniversary, Pioneer Venus Orbiter Launch Aug ?? - 15th Anniversary, Pioneer Venus Multiprobe Launch (multiple atmospheric probes) -- dr memory jbulf@kpc.com ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 93 02:22:31 GMT From: Tony Wayne Subject: speaker measurment help needed Newsgroups: sci.space I need your suggestions. I'm doing a project where students make a small speaker out of a creamer cup, 10 wraps of magnet wire and 2 neodymium (sp) magnets. Students are to use white noise at a predetermined power level from a radio for their signal test source. They will be using different materials and different numbers of coils around the cups to investigate their effects on the sound output. The reason why we are using white noise for our test signal is because 7th - 12 th grades will be doing this experiment and comparing results via e-mail. Many of the schools are isolated and do not have access to frequency counters, audio signal sources, and sensitive db meters. I'm following the kiss (Keep It Simple Stupid) principle. So far I tried taking the head out of a junk cassette deck and connected it to a voltmeter. I was hoping the head would pick up the subtle motions of the magnets -but as some of you all ready know, it didn't work. I've tried other things too. What can you suggest? -Tony PS looking back it doesn't seem clear that I'm looking to measure the speakers *VERY* soft sound output. How soft? They work best as headphones. ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jan 93 21:07:21 GMT From: Chris Ott Subject: Surface map of Venus Newsgroups: sci.space I'm looking for a surface map of Venus, i.e. the one returned from Magellan, in computer readable form. Anyone know where I might get such a thing? I'm considering calling JPL, but I suspect they won't want to be bothered, so I'm going to use them as a last resort. Please respond by email, as my site does not receive this newsgroup. If there is enough interest, I will post a reply. Thanks in advance, Chris Ott chris@pacsoft.com ...!uunet!pacsoft!chris ------------------------------ Date: 28 Jan 1993 19:40 CST From: wingo%cspara.decnet@Fedex.Msfc.Nasa.Gov Subject: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle References: <1993Jan28.025052.23700@jupiter.sun.csd.unb.ca> <1k7vcuINNqb5@flop.ENGR.ORST.EDU> <1993Jan28.134454.913@pixel.kodak.com> <1k9f8eINNeju@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu> Nntp-Posting-Host: judy.uh.edu News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Source-Info: Sender is really news@CRABAPPLE.SRV.CS.CMU.EDU Source-Info: Sender is really isu@VACATION.VENARI.CS.CMU.EDU In article <1k9f8eINNeju@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>, wolfone@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (no one of consequence) writes... > The day that the Challenger exploded I was working at AT&T headquarters in Morristown NJ. I was working in the computer industry then. As with many of you, a known jokster came in the computer room where we were working and told us that the Shuttle had blown up. After convincing us, we went to a local bar and watched the re-runs. After seeing it for over a hundred times I still could not believe it. I saw every single Gemini, Apollo and all of the early Shuttle launches. I still remember crying for Gus Grissam when Apollo 1 burned. We could not work for the rest of the day and many of the At& T employees who all had shuttle posters on the wall went home. It was one of the most traumatic things I have ever experienced. >An upbeat note: One of my better days in life was watching the first >post-Challenger shuttle launch when I was a freshman in college. Everyone >in the room was applauding when the shuttle went up while I caught myself >muttering "Come on, go go go go go go. You can do it!" :-) > I cannot say for sure that Challenger was the reason but I left my high paying computer job less than 18 months later and moved to Huntsville to get my degree and work on the space program. My first job was working on return to flight where I debuged a system that would allow the reading of the Shuttle SSME telemetry in real time in Huntsville, Houston, Goddard and at Rockwell. When the Shuttle went up on STS-26 I was in the Morris auditorium in the Headquarters building at the Marshall Space Flight Center. Many many people were crying by the time that the SSME cut off occured and we knew the bird was going to make it to orbit. We will always remember. Remember Gus, Roger and Ed too. Dennis, University of Alabama in Huntsville ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 18:34:14 GMT From: "Craig B. Huffnagle" Subject: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle The last launch of the Space Shuttle Challenger was the first one that I did not witness live. I grew up in the Orlando area and no matter what we were doing in school, we always went outside to watch the plume of smoke rise to the heavens. I was in tenth grade at the time and was in the middle of a test when the launch occured. Everyone else I knew that didn't have an exam at the time was outside watching the launch. The principal came on the PA system to announce the tragedy to the entire school and request a moment of silence. After I finished my exam, and for the rest of the day, I and almost the entire rest of the school watched the News coverage of the event. I will never forget that day. Ironically enough, I have not seen one shuttle launch live since that launch since I went away to school. - Craig -- Craig Huffnagle yukyuk@yuck.lanl.gov "My mom always said that rain was God crying, She also said it was because of something I did." Jack Handey ------------------- Think of a disclaimer, it applies. ------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jan 93 03:05:33 GMT From: Sean Michael Gallagher Subject: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes: >Oh, give me a break. Seven trained people, flying a brand-new, >more-or-less untested vehicle? They knew the risks. How is this even >comparable to massive tragedies like the famines in the Horn of >Africa, or the Azerbaijan earthquake, or even to the Lockerbie >bombing? To any airliner crash? There are even highway pileups which >kill more. >Sure, it's a tragedy. But don't go blowing it out of proportion. >Nick Haines nickh@cmu.edu There are many tragedies which occur every day in the world, but if I felt as deeply about each of them as I do about Challenger, I wouldn't be sane for very long. You can't measure a tragedy in terms of the sheer magnitude of catastrophe. It is subjective, measured by how it affects you. You can't allow yourself to weep for everyone who suffers everywhere in the world, so you weep for those who you know, or can relate to. I saw the Challenger 7 as not just another seven marks on the death board like you did, but as heroes who died expanding the frontiers of human knowledge. They died for humanity. Have you no hopes? No dreams? I did, until Challenger ripped them out from under me. Sean P.S. I'm sorry if that sounded like a flame...I wrote what I thought and don't like getting sarcastic responses like that one. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 04:20:38 GMT From: "robert.f.casey" Subject: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle I used to work at what was then known as RCA Laboratories in Princeton, NJ (back before the General Electric Corp destroyed it) that day. Was in the Library looing at journals and magazines, then went back to my office/lab. Saw several people looking shocked/dazed in our television lab. They had TVs connected to our test lab's TV antenna, and saw the news bullitins that were aired just after the event happened. And so did I when I saw the reports on the TVs. Told someone at lunch who haden't heard about it yet. Then stopped by another office/lab where some of us played video games on Atari 800 computers. My idiot boss finds me in there and says " figured I'd find you playing games instead of working". (that's a bit harsh, my saying "idiot boss", actually he was one of the better bosses I've had in my career). Someone else commented "I'd hate to be the one who screwed up, causing whatever the problem that caused the loss of the shuttle". ------------------------------ Date: 29 Jan 93 01:47:52 From: Brian Yamauchi Subject: Today in 1986-Remember the Challenger Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.space.shuttle In article nickh@CS.CMU.EDU (Nick Haines) writes: >In article <5=r30mh@rpi.edu> gallas2@marcus.its.rpi.edu (Sean Michael Gallagher) writes: >>[about the Challenger disaster...] >>Where were you? I was in grade school, and it was raining so we were inside >>for our lunchtime recess. The teachers let us watch the launch live (My >>teacher was a teacher-in-space candidate.) We spent the whole afternoon >>trying to figure out what happened, and the flag was lowered to half-staff >>that day and for the following week. I can't believe they wouldn't let you >>discuss one of the most tragic events in recent history. >Oh, give me a break. Seven trained people, flying a brand-new, >more-or-less untested vehicle? They knew the risks. In my opinion, the real tragedy wasn't that seven people died, or even that seven astronauts died. I agree, they knew the risks -- they should be honored and respected as professionals who were willing to put their lives on the line for something that they believed in, not mourned as victims of a disaster. The real tragedy was what the Challenger accident and its aftermath represented -- the loss of will and direction in the manned space program, and for many people the loss of faith in the dream of human expansion into space. Challenger was a symptom, not the cause, but it was a powerful symbol. >How is this even >comparable to massive tragedies like the famines in the Horn of >Africa, or the Azerbaijan earthquake, or even to the Lockerbie >bombing? To any airliner crash? There are even highway pileups which >kill more. Is the body count the only thing that matters? Is the killing of thousands in Bosnia any less tragic because millions more will die of heart disease in the U.S.? Tragedy is subjective. A disaster matters to the degree that you care about what was lost. As to where I was, I was a sophomore at CMU, walking into Baker Hall for an Operations Research recitation, when one of my less credible acquaintances said, "The shuttle crashed." Of course, I didn't believe him. During the class, the students behind me were talking about the shuttle, so I began to wonder... After class, I walked through Skibo (the student center) and saw a crowd of students sitting and watching the television coverage. The image of the smoke trail was on the screen, splitting in two directions, clearly wrong. I watched the network play back the launch, from countdown to major malfunction. Back in the Morewood (dormitory) TV room, there was another crowd staring at a television, and I watched as the network replayed the images of the explosion over and over again. Now it's seven years after the Challenger Seven, and MTV's playing "If you believe they put a man on the moon..." -- _______________________________________________________________________________ Brian Yamauchi Case Western Reserve University yamauchi@alpha.ces.cwru.edu Department of Computer Engineering and Science _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 094 ------------------------------