Date: Sun, 24 Jan 93 05:00:07 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V16 #073 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Sun, 24 Jan 93 Volume 16 : Issue 073 Today's Topics: *** BUSSARD RAMSCOOP *** 2001/2010 Rocket Engines - What are they? (2 msgs) Bob@??? RE: TIDE Prediction Prog. Celestron telescope for sale Handling Antimatter (2 msgs) Hewlett Packard conin space Landsat 6 lunar base/life-support on freedom (2 msgs) NASA admits to lying about its Tech Transfer NORAD and METEOROIDS Orbital Mechanics--Careers? Oxygen in Biosphere 2 Sabatier reactor? (was Re: Oxygen in Biosphere 2) Saving an overweight SSTO.... Shuttle Smell After Sweat, Methane and ... solar sails (2 msgs) spawn Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:10:19 GMT From: Josh Hopkins Subject: *** BUSSARD RAMSCOOP *** Newsgroups: sci.space lwahl@matt.ksu.ksu.edu (Lynne K Wahl) writes: >Hmmm... This sounds like an interstellar probe is needed to collect >information before a *really* fast spacecraft is launched. How about >a .01c speed probe with a small "sail" that would be primarily used to >collect interstellar H (for testing) and with magnetic sensors to check >on the magnetic medium as it goes. How far from the sun would this >"Pathfinder" type of probe need to go before getting outside the sun's >environment? >As an exercise, how fast would, say a refueled shuttle ET, one SSME, >and a 30 ton probe go if launched in a "generic" solar escape orbit? Really slowly. JPL (I think - Ron?) prposed the TAU (Thousand AU) mission a number of years ago. It would have used a nuclear reactor and an ion drive to boost out of the solar system in about fifty years and check out interstellar space. Unfortunately, since it required new power, engines and communications gear it never got very far. -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Q: How do you tell a novice from an expert. A: A novice hesitates before doing something stupid. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 93 21:48:23 GMT From: "Andres C. Gaeris" Subject: 2001/2010 Rocket Engines - What are they? Newsgroups: sci.space > In <1993Jan21.110438.1@fnalf.fnal.gov> higgins@fnalf.fnal.gov (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes: > > On the other hand, remember that Forbidden Planet, in the 1950's, > began with the narrator's voice saying, "In the last decade of the > 21st Century, Mankind reached the Moon." Rober Heinlein was a bit Well, considering the current public and governmental attitude to expensive new space programs plus what is going worldwide with the space agencies, the _Forbidden Planet_ writers were not really off of the mark. I do not believe that Bill or I will reach the Moon in the next century (except for some really good breakthroughs in longevity and geriatrics) and sure that Bill and I carry a good quantity of Mankind around 8-)! When I was a teenager I expected to visit the moons of Saturn or at least Mars at my retirement age. Now my expectancies are with an orbital week-end draining my savings account for the same period. The bonus side is that I could possibly be one of the first guys in building a ICF pulse rocket, but I would trade it for my Saturn's moon trip! I fell like Mankind will not reach the Moon and the planets in a really effective way till the end of the next century. The beginning of the next century will be for PC technologies, 'ecologic'-cleansing, and New-Age illiterates trying to subvert science and technology to their own pervert agenda. Sorry about this tirade. It is the result of reading three times 'Fallen Angels' and seeing around what is going on with S&T policy. (Next tirade: _How the U.N./Green technological police forced me to leave Physics and go back to administer my family's convinience store_) Andres C. Gaeris A junior laser fusioneer goin' older and cynic but not wiser. agae@lle.rochester.edu ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jan 93 20:18:09 GMT From: James Thomas Green Subject: 2001/2010 Rocket Engines - What are they? Newsgroups: sci.space I seem to recall that the reaction fluid was liquid NH3. I would imagine that it would disassociate under that kind of temperature and get the extra boost that H ions would give. ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jan 93 16:20:32 CST From: lbartel@vax1.umkc.edu Subject: Bob@??? RE: TIDE Prediction Prog. Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space to Bob@??? re TIDE program If you requested I forward you the tide prediction program from "hage@netcom.com", watch for the latest revised tide prediction program to be posted here, on sci.astro. I lost your address. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:29:25 GMT From: Brian Carey 283-4181 Subject: Celestron telescope for sale Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,sciastro.fits For sale Celestron Super Polaris C6 Telescope Information of this Newtonian reflector telescope is: Diameter: 150 mm Focal Length: 750mm Near Focus with eyepiece: 8' with camera: 6' Highest Useful Power: 360x Resolution (arc seconds): 0.76 Light Gathering Power: 459 Limiting Visual Power: 13.4 f/ratio: f/5.0 Weight Optical Tube: 10.5 lb. With Tripod: 38 lb. The telescope comes with tripod, Equatorial Mount with polar axis finderscope, eye piece, top mounted spotting scope, and tripod center tray with container. All of the above for $550.00 OBO If interested email or call Brian C. Carey phone 488 - 6432 (home). ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 93 01:03:43 GMT From: Pat Subject: Handling Antimatter Newsgroups: sci.space Is it possible instead of using Buckminsterfullerene to contain an antiproton to use tetrane (C4H4 ) or cubane (C8H8)? given the lower dalton numbers, the enerfy density would be real high. also given that these molecules are less stable, it should be easier to liberate the energy when needed. pat ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 16:30:01 EST From: Graydon Subject: Handling Antimatter Newsgroups: sci.space Neither antimatter nor nuke-thermal are very good for launching to orbit(not if we expect to use that part of the planet again), so perhaps antimatter will turn out to be an easier system to loft? Anyone doing anything on mon-atomic hydrogen as an escape fuel? Graydon ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 93 02:16:53 GMT From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Subject: Hewlett Packard conin space Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space,comp.infosystems.wais >In article <1993Jan21.184138.22352@aio.jsc.nasa.gov>, I, kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov, wrote: >>Before you ask, the SPOC software is NOT available to the general >>public. It includes a world map showing day/night and the current >>position of the Orbiter, updated in real time. In article <1jp4agINNlim@mojo.eng.umd.edu> sysmgr@king.eng.umd.edu writes: >Like, bogus. Do you realize how much money NASA could make by selling >it off to Space Junkies at $50 a pop? :) Bogus, indeed. It's hard to get this straight, sometimes. NASA is NOT in the business of making money. (That's the Treasury's job; they print the stuff.) But this is sympomatic of a larger problem: NASA can't release software it creates to the public domain. Whatever software NASA creates is in the Government's domain, and may eventually be released through COSMIC. So I can't post the source code to our latest nifty improvement on WAIS, the Wide Area Information Servers out for anonymous FTP, where I think it belongs. (Besides, we're still in alpha testing.) We have some top people working on this software distribution issue, but many of the decision makers at NASA still think computers are big old things which take up large rooms and dozens of people to operate. Now they only take up small rooms and dozens of people. -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "We at NASA develop cutting-edge technology for our aeronautics and space programs. We view technology transfer as a way of life. It's one of our top priorities." -- Daniel S. Goldin, NASA Administrator Yeah, right. ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 93 18:42:53 GMT From: "Thomas E. Keegan" Subject: Landsat 6 Newsgroups: sci.space Greetings net-folks, Can somebody fill me in on the launch/deployment date of Landat 6? Thanks much Respond personally to: thomas.keegan@dartmouth.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 17:24:57 EST From: John Roberts Subject: lunar base/life-support on freedom -From: wools@athena.mit.edu (Aaron M Woolsey) -Subject: lunar base/life-support on freedom -Date: 23 Jan 93 19:17:25 GMT -Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology - o.k., I'm not an aerospace engineer, just a biology major, but I was -wondering what the outlook is, in the near future, for establishing a lunar base. - It seems logical to me that before we start planning a manned mission to Mars, -we ought to start planning a permanent base on the moon. Is NASA devoting any -time or resources toward this direction? There's some low level of effort in that direction. Galileo did some lunar science on the recent flyby, Clementine is apparently scheduled to launch early next year, and there are proposals for further lunar science missions and some work on planning manned missions. Some of the work done on SSF should be applicable to establishing a lunar base. We'll probably have a better idea of how much interest the new Administration has in a lunar base (and if there is interest, how much they'll be able to sell to Congress) in 100-200 days. My impression is that a lunar base is of more near-term interest than a Mars mission. - also, does anybody know how the life-support/environment control systems -will operate on the space station Freedom (or how they operate on mir)? I -suppose that these technologies will come in handy when we establish a base on -the moon. How is oxygen replenished, what's the waste managment program, -and how will they replenish the water supply. This was discussed in May 1992. According to Henry Spencer, there are plans to recycle the water (though perhaps mainly for washing, etc.). Dani Eder says that SSF is scheduled to import all its oxygen for a few years, then eventually start recycling its CO2 to recover some of the oxygen. Also according to Henry, the "last-but-one" design of SSF was to use excess water as reaction mass for reboost and orbital maneuvering, but this was called off due to design cost constraints. John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:17:25 GMT From: Aaron M Woolsey Subject: lunar base/life-support on freedom Newsgroups: sci.space o.k., I'm not an aerospace engineer, just a biology major, but I was wondering what the outlook is, in the near future, for establishing a lunar base. It seems logical to me that before we start planning a manned mission to Mars, we ought to start planning a permanent base on the moon. Is NASA devoting any time or resources toward this direction? also, does anybody know how the life-support/environment control systems will operate on the space station Freedom (or how they operate on mir)? I suppose that these technologies will come in handy when we establish a base on the moon. How is oxygen replenished, what's the waste managment program, and how will they replenish the water supply. Will Freedom be self-sufficient (as its name might imply...)? thanks for your answers in advance... -Aaron Woolsey wools@athena.mit.edu ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:54:59 GMT From: Gregory Aharonian Subject: NASA admits to lying about its Tech Transfer Newsgroups: sci.space There has been much mention of the NASA and the DOE getting into tech transfer, CRADAs, civilian DARPA, and other forms of the government acting as a venture capitalist in the past year. For those of us doing this as a real business and resent this government socialism, the following article only reinforces the belief that commercial space and commercial energy should be left to the commercial markets. Greg Aharonian Source Translation & Optimization -------------------------------------------------------------------------- NASA ADMITS TO EXAGGERATING TECH TRANSFER Process is 'Nonintegrated, Undocumented, Too Slow' (Washington Technology 1/14/93, page 1) Popular mythology says NASA brought America spin-off classics like Tang, Velcro and Teflon. But the space agency only popularized them. These sacred public relations cows were slain by an in-house study that says NASA's technology transfer reputation has been overblown and falls far short of the mark. "Technology transfer processes are nonintegrated, undocumented and too slow" says the bare-knuckled assessment that was chartered last May by NASA adminstrator Daniel Goldin. The study confirms what many in the commercial space industry have said privately, but smudges NASA's public reputation as a role model in technology transfer. Oddly enough, Dan Goldin says the highly critical report is a victory. "I am thrilled", Goldin said during a January 12 interview with Washington Technology. "These employees had courage" to buck the system. "This is what I have been trying to accomplish at NASA", added Goldin, who was delighted with the report's tone of honest self-appraisal. While NASA has historically had some very successful transfers into the medical and aeronautics fields, the team concluded "there have not been very many technology transfer successes compared to the potential ... and past successes have been largely anecdotal". A key problem is when NASA employees think of tech transfer, they tend to consider only the "primary" transfer of mission-related technologies to mission-oriented customers. Meanwhile "secondary" transfers - like special aerospace materials good for knee replacements - go unconsidered. "Many developers of NASA technology have had little or no direct interest in non-aerospace applications", the report says. The study also says that the agency has been too slow to get transferable knowledge out to industry. Technical papers can take nine months to get published, while listings in the NASA journal Tech Briefs can take as much as 18 months to get to press. Further, the authors found NASA tech transfer centers understaffed and badly coordinated. Most troubling, they discovered that around the agency employees, managers and contractors "do not feel technology transfer is part of their job". The study slammed NASA management for fostering this problem by failing to reward tech transfer when it does take place. "We want tech transfer to be part of each individual's job", team deputy Chairman Kathy Abbott said. She was quick to point out that NASA personnel are eager to improve and "are not generally waiting for Dan Goldin to say 'do it'". -- ************************************************************************** Greg Aharonian Source Translation & Optimiztion P.O. Box 404, Belmont, MA 02178 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:24:00 GMT From: pbrown@uwovax.uwo.ca Subject: NORAD and METEOROIDS Newsgroups: sci.space Here is an open question I hope someone can help me with. After several months of trying to pursue this from "normal" channels I have become quite frustrated. On Oct 9, 1992 at 2349 UTC, a bright meteor was seen over the Eastern USA. The remains of the body hit a parked car in Peekskill, N.Y. The event created a great deal of publicity and many of you have likely heard about the event. Our University group has been following up the positional data gleaned from videotape recordings made on the night of the event. These are quite helpful and have answered many outstanding questions in fireball dynamics. Already, this event has become one of the most documented (if not THE most documented) fireball/meteorite events. In an effort to complete the data "loop" and gather all avaliable information about the event we have tried contacting NORAD and seeing what radar data might be avaliable on the event. Basically we have found out that they detected the object, but little else. That radar data when coupled with the videotapes (some 27 in all) AND the recovered meteorite could add immensely to our general understanding of reentry problems, fireball dynamics etc. In many ways the information about the event could be useful from NORAD's standpoint, once all the analysis is done. Now, we have tried to get the data or at least someone to tell us directly that we can't have it without any luck. What options might I have? Is there anyone out there who might have a contact that could help us with this problem? Any suggestions would be appreciated, as the data currently stands to be lost altogether on a most unique event, unless someone intervenes. As a side question, would anyone know where DMSP data can be obtained from? Please send email replies to the address below. Thank You email:Pbrown@hydra.uwo.ca ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 1993 04:52:12 GMT From: mark jones Subject: Orbital Mechanics--Careers? Newsgroups: sci.aeronautics,sci.research.careers,sci.space,soc.college.grad C After u.g. major in math with lots of physics I'm trying to decide on masters/Ph.d in math or orbital mechanics. What are the opportunities in orbital mechanics and will they still be there in 5 or 6 years. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Reply via net or directly mjones@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu ------------------------------ Date: 23 Jan 93 01:00:37 GMT From: Pat Subject: Oxygen in Biosphere 2 Newsgroups: sci.space A comment is made on the smell inside B2. I imagine actually that unless SO2 is being produced, it doesn't matter. Human noses acclimate very quickly. Farmers dont mind the pigs, People dont mind their own Body odors. I once worked in a septic farm, you stop noticing. The bigger question is air samples exported to outside testers? taber, you would know. pat ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:09:27 GMT From: Pat Subject: Sabatier reactor? (was Re: Oxygen in Biosphere 2) Newsgroups: sci.space I think there are two sabatier main chains. they deal with CO2 processing. CO2 + H (iron catalyst + Heat) --> CH4 + H2O CO2 (IRON catalyst and heat) --> O2 and C. Its a real old well understood prociess. BTW Freedom decided not to use methane thrusters. so instead they are throwing out waste CO2 and importing hydrazine. failure oriented management wins again. someone thought methane thrusters were too risky. pat ------------------------------ Date: 22 Jan 1993 18:04:45 GMT From: Pat Subject: Saving an overweight SSTO.... Newsgroups: sci.space In article <19752@mindlink.bc.ca> Bruce_Dunn@mindlink.bc.ca (Bruce Dunn) writes: >> Dani Eder writes: > Interesting idea. Without a full orbital flight, the DC-1 will not >be able to land at its launch site. Any idea on how far downrange the DC-1 >would land, and whether this could be accomplished within the width of the >continental USA? If not, or a Florida launch is needed to get a 28.5 degree >orbit, where in Africa would be a suitable landing site? A quick look at a >globe suggests launching from Hawaii would require landing somewhere the the >northern half of south America. Return to the launch site would presumably be >by another suborbital hop, although this unfortunately means that two >refueling and launch sites are needed and two DC-1 flights are needed to put >1 payload into orbit. > How about this. ping pong around. HawaII to Ecuador. Ecuador to Spain. Spain to Tanzania. Tanzania to India, India to Australia, Australia to Hawaii. You bounce around and just keep meeting cargos. pat ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 15:44:34 GMT From: shanleyl@ducvax.auburn.edu Subject: Shuttle Smell After Sweat, Methane and ... Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1993Jan21.131803.1674@cs.rochester.edu>, dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes: > From: Carl Hage > >> .... Also, it would seem that odor might be a problem >> in such a small enclosed space. > > > I understand that they have a system where air is recirculated through > a large mass of soil. This replicates one of the mechanisms of the > natural biosphere for cleansing the atmosphere. Microorganisms are > significant sinks for CO, H2, and numerous other trace gases. And, > indeed, they claim that odors have not been a problem. > > I have read, however, that the Shuttle is pretty rank at the end of a > flight. Is this true? Yes. The astronauts say " you sweat for a week+ with 5 or 6 other guy (or gals) and not be able to take a shower, and have your food never settled in your stomach (ergo-always producing gas) and then tell me how you think it will smell?" I am not an astronaut but I get the picture. Sincerely, Paul Sylvester Shanley Researcher ad Infinitum et al School of Human Sciences Auburn University 308 Spidle Hall Auburn University, Alabama 36849 United States of America VOICE: 205 844 1339 office VOICE: 205 887 7440 home FAX: 205 844 1340 office e-mail pshanley@humsci.auburn.edu ad astra per Mylanta > > Paul F. Dietz > dietz@cs.rochester.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 93 20:15:06 EST From: John Roberts Subject: solar sails -From: MLINDROOS@FINABO.ABO.FI (Marcus Lindroos INF) -Subject: Re: Solar sails -Date: 23 Jan 93 08:39:41 GMT -Organization: Abo Akademi University, Finland -There was another proposal as well. A small space probe suspended behind a -giant solar sail (2km across, total mass of one hundred kg(?)) would reach -Alpha Centauri in 250 years if we make a close flyby of the Sun - one solar -radius from the surface (0.7 million km). Is there a way to manufacture an -ultra-light sail able to withstand the temperature (4000-5000K at least)? Do you have access to the math behind that proposal? It should be impressive - for instance, the sail has to withstand something around 50 MW/m^2. (The inverse-square law wouldn't exactly apply as far as photon thrust is concerned at that distance, but it should be less than a factor of two off.) John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 02:29:43 GMT From: Josh Hopkins Subject: Solar sails Newsgroups: sci.space 18084TM@msu.edu (Tom) writes: >Josh Hopkins: > >Has anyone given any thought to sailing on something besides optical/IR >waves? How about a giant radio antenna? X-ray reflectors? The Starwisp uses microwaves if I recall correctly. Make an impossibly huge mesh that's impossibly light and send impossible amounts of radio energy at it (say a good sized SPS worth) and you've got a starwisp. I think Bob Forward's proposal used 10 GW to boost at 115 gravities for a few days. It would then coast at .2 C for twenty years before zipping through Alpha Centauri. -- Josh Hopkins jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu Q: How do you tell a novice from an expert. A: A novice hesitates before doing something stupid. ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 01:44:18 GMT From: nsmca@acad3.alaska.edu Subject: spawn Newsgroups: sci.space Problems without solutions are just as bad as the original problem.. Maybe people inthe future can post a possible solution to the problem that they have identified..?? Michael Adams Alias: Morgoth/Ghost Wheel nsmca@acad2.alaska.edu ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 073 ------------------------------