Date: Tue, 3 Nov 92 05:00:02 From: Space Digest maintainer Reply-To: Space-request@isu.isunet.edu Subject: Space Digest V15 #371 To: Space Digest Readers Precedence: bulk Space Digest Tue, 3 Nov 92 Volume 15 : Issue 371 Today's Topics: "average" underground nuclear explosion (was : moving comets) "Earth Gains a Retinue of Mini-Asteroids" Automated space station construction Comet Collision esa symbol HRMS for ETI Man in space ... Moving comets NASA Coverup Presidential Election Survey (2 msgs) Putting volatiles on the moon Scenario of comet hitting Earth Swift-Tuttle Comet a threat to earth? (2 msgs) Why Vote? (4 msgs) Welcome to the Space Digest!! Please send your messages to "space@isu.isunet.edu", and (un)subscription requests of the form "Subscribe Space " to one of these addresses: listserv@uga (BITNET), rice::boyle (SPAN/NSInet), utadnx::utspan::rice::boyle (THENET), or space-REQUEST@isu.isunet.edu (Internet). ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 10:00:03 -0600 From: pgf@srl05.cacs.usl.edu (Phil G. Fraering) Subject: "average" underground nuclear explosion (was : moving comets) >I read once that the average underground nuclear explosion created spaces >in rock half a mile across. (Anyone confirm this?) >Andy. Average underground nuclear explosion? This implies that they're naturally occuring or something... I think it's a lot less than this, otherwise the underground testing ranges in Nevada would be running out of rock... In fact, don't they reuse some of the caverns? >+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ >| Haveland-Robinson Associates | Email: andy@osea.demon.co.uk | >| 54 Greenfield Road, London | ahaveland@cix.compulink.co.uk | >| N15 5EP England. 081-800 1708 | Also: 0621-88756 081-802 4502 | -- Phil Fraering pgf@srl0x.cacs.usl.edu where the x is a number from 1-5. Phone: 318/365-5418 SnailMail: 2408 Blue Haven Dr., New Iberia, La. 70560 --------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 92 13:34:04 GMT From: amon@elegabalus.cs.qub.ac.uk Subject: "Earth Gains a Retinue of Mini-Asteroids" > Not really screwy. The number of 50 meter objects is enhanced by > about 10 times and the Tunguska type events probably happen once > or a few times per century. Remember, 3 out of 4 enter over water > and may be less likely to be detected. Also, perhaps a large > I wonder... Could this be the explanation for the non-radioactive mushroom cloud seen by airline pilots in the Pacific one day in the late 70's - early 80's? It was never connected to any source that I am aware of. Some theorized it was caused by an undersea volcanic explosion, but no one succeeded in associating it with one. It was not a nuclear explosion, although some at first suggested that. It is unlikely to have been a non-nuclear explosion, ie no ships disappeared and I'm not sure I see a motive for an experimental blast in that part of the world. Just a thought, although I would not expect a mushroom cloud from such a comet strike. I'm not sure I can even see a mechanism for creating one from a Tunguska class strike. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 11:49:28 GMT From: mike Subject: Automated space station construction Newsgroups: sci.space In article <720692905snx@osea.demon.co.uk> andy@osea.demon.co.uk (Andrew Haveland-Robinson) writes: > >In article <1992Oct31.023129.9034@access.usask.ca> choy@skorpio.usask.ca (I am a terminator.) writes: > >>Can robots be launched to build the space station? They can work overtime. >> > >Of course they could - this is just another area where Virtual Reality >will come into its own... > >Virtual space travel and construction is much safer than the real thing! >Major cock-ups needn't involve loss of life, so I think this should >justify more VR space research... > The original poster asked if robots could be used to build the space station. The answer is yes, they could, but they won't. The technology is too young to be trusted yet. Virtual Reality is not viable because of long transmission lags (up to 7 seconds, I hear) from down to up and back. If we designed Space Station for robotic compatibility, AND we had a closet full of replacement robots, the technology is there, and it would be a lot cheaper (albeit slower). I hear it takes $55000/hour of support to have an astronaut in a spacesuit. Much cheaper to have some guy on the ground coaxing a robot through a series of mind-numbingly boring routines. Then again, some of NASA's funding comes from the romance of humans being there, not robots (IMHO). -- ******************************** mike@drseus.jsc.nasa.gov ***** * Michael L. Ross/C33 | Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. * * Robotics Department | 2400 Nasa Rd. 1, Houston, TX 77062 * *(713)333-7094 voice,(713)333-7201 fax**********boring, eh?**** ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 15:46:45 GMT From: Dave Jones Subject: Comet Collision Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.sci.planetary Carl J Lydick (carl@SOL1.GPS.CALTECH.EDU) wrote: > In article <1992Oct30.153103.29953@pixel.kodak.com>, dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com (Dave Jones) writes: > >One day, I'm going to sit down and work out if Asimov's Martian Way really > >would have worked....soft land a chunk of Saturns Rings on Mars, when just > >getting into Earth orbit takes 90% of your starting mass? Hmmm....... > > Ah, but if you aerobrake to get into a nearly circular orbit and use your > spacefaring iceberg for reaction mass in your descent, then you don't CARE if > you use up 100% of it in soft-landing it. After all, you've now got it in the > Martion atmosphere, where it would've ended up had you soft-landed 100% of the > mass (unless, of course, you increase the Martian atmospheric pressure > considerably). Good point. However, Asimov had them soft-landing it using their "micropile driven steam jets", and that's what needs to be addressed! -- ||Halloween Candy: the office snack | ||from Nov. 1st onwards............... |Puff the Magic Dragon ||-------------------------------------|Lived by the sea ||Dave Jones (dj@ekcolor.ssd.kodak.com)|Who knows what's in the autumn mists ||Eastman Kodak Co. Rochester, NY |In the mind of Yadallee? ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 17:24:30 GMT From: kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov Subject: esa symbol Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Oct30.4287.21313@dosgate> "donald simmons" writes: > Recently in a space magazine I saw the logo for the European Space >Agency, and I wondered what it was suposed it mean. It consists of a >blue circle with a lowercase 'e' inside it on the right hand side, and a >small white dot on the left. My best guess is that the 'e' stands for >Europe, and also represents the Earth, while the white dot is supposed >to be the Moon. Anyone know for certain? Nope. But if you want to see for yourself, it's available via anonymous FTP: ames.arc.nasa.gov:pub/SPACE/LOGOS/esa.gif -- Ken Jenks, NASA/JSC/GM2, Space Shuttle Program Office kjenks@gothamcity.jsc.nasa.gov (713) 483-4368 "NASA turns dreams into realities and makes science fiction into fact" -- Daniel S. Goldin, NASA Administrator ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 10:46:41 GMT From: "M.D. O'Leary" Subject: HRMS for ETI Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.bio In article <1992Oct30.195102.28879@cs.rochester.edu> dietz@cs.rochester.edu (Paul Dietz) writes: >In article <1357@tdat.teradata.COM> swf@tdat.teradata.com (Stanley Friesen) writes: > > >|Au contraire! Our ignorance about origin of life is profound, and > >|very little progress has been made in dispelling it. There is no > >|really plausible model for the origin of life. We're missing at least > >|one, and possibly several, fundamental ideas. > > > Have you read Cairns-Smith's "Seven Clues to the Origin of Life"? > > I consider that to be an extremely plausible model (though the best > > reasons are not in that, now out-of-date, book). > >Cairns-Smith's ideas are very imaginative, but are supported by almost >no evidence. In particular, no one has ever demonstrated that clays >-- or any other crystals -- can propagate genetic information. The >fact that such speculations are taken seriously shows how blocked the >field has become. > 0 Just a note: It is extremely hard to estimate absolute numbers, or even viable species representatives in a clay soil by 'genetic' methods (ie pcr) because clay stabilises extracellular DNA to a great degree. The leap from stably maintained DNA to stably maintained *replicating* DNA is perhaps not so great. But not having read the book, I guess this is not what you were talking about. Sorry. > > Also, one could argue, based on the usual defnitions of life, that the > > recently produced self-replicatinf RNA molecule *is* alive, and thus > > we *have* made life in the laboratory. (Of course the exact definition > > of life in the boundry cases is decidedly difficult, so one could also > > make a case that it is not alive). > >Sure, we've made RNAs in the laboratory -- using purified, chiral >tri(?)phosphorylated nucleotides, which (correct me if I'm wrong) >are extracted from biological sources. Prebiotic Miller-Urey type >experiments have not, to my knowledge, ever produced nucleotides, nor >have they produced anything but racemic mixtures of mostly >biologically irrelevant molecules. The monomers of RNA are >sufficiently complicated that it is quite implausible they could have >arisen without some prior evolution. > I don't have references to hand, but I did understand (undergrad level) that some oligonucleotides had been produced in 'primal sou' expts. Have I been misled? If so *what* was evolving prior to the RNAs? > Paul F. Dietz > dietz@cs.rochester.edu ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 17:37:14 GMT From: Nick Floros Subject: Man in space ... Newsgroups: sci.space Hello dear netters , Here in my office we have an argument : What will happen if the space suite of an austronaut gets ripped in space ? Some of us recon that he will explode while others that he will end up with lots of bruises!!. One thing that all of us agree, is that it is not going to be a very healthy activity. Is there anyone out there who can shed some light on this subject ? . Thank you Nick ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Nov 1992 14:30:57 GMT From: "Michael K. Heney" Subject: Moving comets Newsgroups: sci.space >-From: henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) > >-Bombs are actually a relatively good way to move asteroids. Comets >-are a difficult case, because they are probably fragile and because they >-probably have a thin crust with concentrated volatiles underneath. A >-small nearby nuclear explosion would blow off the crust on one side, and >-the result would be a tremendous spill of gas from the comet itself. >-If you knew what you were doing, and did it carefully, this could permit >-steering a comet with far less effort than the brute-force approach. > Could you use a large laser for "steering" a comet? I don't know how tight you can keep a beam over planetary distances, but if the idea is delivering energy "gently" to a comet to cause it to outgas in a preferred direction without shattering it, a well-placed energy beam seems like an interesting candidate. -- Mike Heney | Senior Systems Analyst and | Reach for the mheney@access.digex.com | Space Activist / Entrepreneur | Stars, eh? Kensington, MD (near DC) | * Will Work for Money * | ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 15:19:39 GMT From: Dillon Pyron Subject: NASA Coverup Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.conspiracy In article <4578@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us>, snarfy@cruzio.santa-cruz.ca.us writes: > > snarfy to NASA Physicists - "YOU'RE ALL BUSTED!" > > According to conventional theories of science , the Moon (Luna) has only incoherent babblings deleted You know, it is dangerous to scarf that many peyote buttons in one sitting! -- Dillon Pyron | The opinions expressed are those of the TI/DSEG Lewisville VAX Support | sender unless otherwise stated. (214)462-3556 (when I'm here) | (214)492-4656 (when I'm home) |"Pacts with the devil are not legally pyron@skndiv.dseg.ti.com |binding!" PADI DM-54909 |-Friar Tuck _Robin Hood:The Hooded Man_ ------------------------------ Date: 1 Nov 1992 11:21:08 -0500 From: MIT Presidential Information Service Subject: Presidential Election Survey Newsgroups: sci.space Explanation: Have you ever been called on the phone to answer a survey for an electoral poll? Well, here is a chance to express your views. Please answer this survey and return it to: Surveys@Campaign92.Org Results: The sooner you return this survey, the sooner you can find out how your answers square with other participating members of the Internet community. We will post the results to those who respond as soon as the returns become significant. Directions: Try to answer all the questions as best you can in order make this survey as accurate as possible. The answers to questions will complete from your input, so you need only provide enough characters to distinguish your answer from the alternatives. For multiple choice questions with letter or numeric labels, you need only provide the letter or number for your answer. If you are unsure how to complete this survey, you can learn how to fill out our computerized forms by sending mail to: Help@Campaign92.Org Eligibility: Feel free to circulate this survey to your friends. Anyone able to send electronic mail is eligible to participate, even if they have never taken advantage of the MIT Presidential Information Servers at: Bush-Info@Campaign92.Org Clinton-Info@Campaign92.Org Hagelin-Info@Campaign92.Org Perot-Info@Campaign92.Org Marrou-Info@Campaign92.Org Document Searches: We recently introduced a document search tool that makes it easy to search the campaign literature to find documents discussing specific issues that concern you. If you have not used the WAIS document retrieval system, you may wish to try it before the election in order to find out exactly what the candidates are saying. -------------------- Required form identifier and specifier below -- don't delete them. :FORM: PRESIDENTIAL-ELECTION-SURVEY Question: What are the chances of your voting in the election for President this November? Answer: Select one: 1 Almost certain 2 Probably 3 50-50 4 Will not vote 5 Dont-know :VOTING-CHANCES: Question: There will be a number of elections in November this year. Which candidates in the general election for president have you heard of? Answer: Select some of: 1 George Bush - Republican 4 Andre Marrou - Libertarian 2 Bill Clinton - Democrat 3 Ross Perot - Independent 5 John Hagelin - Natural Law Party :PRESIDENTIAL-CANDIDATES: Question: If the election were held today, who would you for? 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Answer: Select one: 1 Ross Perot is sending an important message, but he should NOT be President 2 Ross Perot would be a good President 3 Ross Perot just should not be President 4 Dont-know :PEROT-ASSESSMENT: Question: Who would do the best job of improving the Nation's economy? Answer: Select one: A All P Perot C Clinton B Bush N None D Dont-know :IMPROVE-THE-ECONOMY: Question: Who would do the best job of dealing with taxes? Answer: Select one: A All C Clinton N None P Perot B Bush D Dont-know :DEALING-WITH-TAXES: Question: Who would gives you the most hope for the future? Answer: Select one: A All C Clinton P Perot N None B Bush D Dont-know :FUTURE-HOPE: Question: Who would make the changes that the country needs? Answer: Select one: P Perot N None A All B Bush C Clinton D Dont-know :NECESSARY-CHANGES: Question: And who does this best describe - Steady Leader? Answer: Select one: C Clinton B Bush A All P Perot N None D Dont-know :STEADY-LEADER: Question: And who does this best describe - Would worry you if he were in the White House for the next four years? Answer: Select one: P Perot B Bush N None A All C Clinton D Dont-know :WORRISOME-LEADER: Question: Which of the following best describes how you think of yourself with regards to political parties? Answer: Select one: 1 Democrat 2 Independent but leaning Democrat 3 Independent 4 Independent but lean Republican 5 Republican 6 Libertarian 7 Natural Law Party 6 Other :PARTY-AFFILIATION: Question: What is your age? Answer: Select one: A 18 - 24 B 25 - 29 C 30 - 34 D 35 - 39 E 40 - 44 F 45 - 49 G 50 - 54 H 55 - 64 I 65 and over J Refused/Dont-know :AGE: Question: What is the last year of schooling that you have completed? Answer: Select one: A 1 - 11th grade B High school graduate C Non-college after high school D Some college or junior college E College graduate F Post-graduate school G Dont-know :SCHOOLING-COMPLETED: Question: What is your gender? Answer: Select one: Male or Female. :GENDER: -------------------- The Presidential Campaign Information Service is a non-partisan service operated at M.I.T to make campaign information available, facilitate electronic discussion of the issues, and to study the use of electronic mail as a component of a presidential campaign. The service can neither control who reads what you write in public, nor how they may use your written words. For our part, we store most messages, and we will make them available after the election for scientific study. Names and any other identifiers will not be released; they will be omitted or replaced with random symbols. Eric Loeb and John Mallery M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Laboratory ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 15:14:04 GMT From: "J. Lewis" Subject: Presidential Election Survey Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1d105kINNot5@life.ai.mit.edu> MIT Presidential Information Service writes: > > >Eric Loeb and John Mallery >M.I.T. Artificial Intelligence Laboratory Artificial intelligence, real stupidity, and unmitigated gall. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 19:44:16 GMT From: Greg Moore Subject: Putting volatiles on the moon Newsgroups: sci.space In article <178@newave.newave.mn.org> john@newave.newave.mn.org (John A. Weeks III) writes: > >Eeek! I was looking for a smiley at the end of your post, but I didn't >find one. While I don't know about using nukes to nudge comets, I have >recently heard a few stories about the Soviet Union using nuclear bombs >for peaceful purposes. They reportedly dug canals with a-bombs, seriously >polluting several rivers in the process. They also used a-bombs as a >mining explosive--then sent unprotected workers into the mine only hours >after the explosion. Please try to refrain from using nukes for anything >other than blowing up people, and I really hope we don't use them for >that purpose either. > >-john- > Eek! I was looking for a smiley... :-) Seriously though... Yes, there are reports that the Soviets used nuclear bombs for engineering projects. A couple of comments though. Part of the problem with the rivers was not so much radioactivity (as I recall) but the fact that they reversed the direction of a few, and completely changed the eco-systems on them and others. Not that we haven't done the same. Take a look at the mouth of the Colorado. It's litereally a trickle. And VERY polluted. As for using them as mining explosions, it would seem the smart thing to do is NOT let unprotected workers into the mine. ANd radioactivity in a mine is not uncommon, there is a lot of Radon in coal mines. Also, my understanding (several eyars old) is taht they were creating large underground fuel resoivoirs... not mines. The big trick is developing CLEAN nuclear weapons, i.e. ones with a minimal amount of fallout. It can be done to some extent. >-- >============================================================================== >John A. Weeks III (612) 942-6969 john@newave.mn.org >Newave Communications, Ltd. ..!uunet!tcnet!newave!john ------------------------------ Date: 1 Nov 92 15:32:03 GMT From: Mal Logan Subject: Scenario of comet hitting Earth Newsgroups: sci.space > a forest was hit by the downward moving shockwave and was > leveled for > a distance of 50 miles in every direction. In other words, a > 100-mile > circle of trees was laid flat. The evidence leading to the I thought it was only 20kms in all directions from ground zero, not 50 miles. NOT THAT IT MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENCE. Mal Logan * Origin: Ground Zero BBS - 61-3-314-7107 (3:635/546) ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 13:56:38 GMT From: Paul Leyland Subject: Swift-Tuttle Comet a threat to earth? Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space In article jbh55289@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes: > You're the astronomer, so you may have taken this into account in your > estimates, but it's important to remeber that as a comet, S/T has a much lower > mass and is much more fragile than a similarly sized asteroid. As such, it's > much less dangerous than an asteroid of the same size. Not much less. Let's take extreme values: density of asteroid 5 (solid metal); density of comet 0.5 (fluffy ice). Ratio of masses is 10:1 [Before everyone jumps on me, the units are tonnes per cubic metre, and I'm deliberately choosing extreme values to make a point. Real numbers are probably closer to 3 and 1 respectively] Right, my asteroid dumps ten times the kinetic energy on the earth as my comet. Now, mass goes as the cube of the radius and cube-root (10) is 2.15. Therefore, if our radius estimates are out by a factor of two or so, the kinetic energy can be an order of magnitude wrong. Likewise, kinetic energy scales as the square of the radius. The range of velocities quoted (60-70 km/s) gives a 1.4 variation in kinetic energy. What I'm saying, is that the errors in the size estimates and velocity estimates outweigh differences in composition, so far as damage is concerned. Fragility arguments don't hold much water either. If the comet is in one piece when it's a few thousand km up, it will be in one piece when it hits. The quoted size is about the thickness of the dense bit of our atmosphere, and it will go through that in about a quarter second. It will not break up significantly until it hits something solid. Even if it did break up, it wouldn't matter. All that kinetic energy gets dumped on the earth's surface in a few seconds anyway. Hot Fudge Wednesdae, anyone? Paul -- Paul Leyland | Hanging on in quiet desperation is Oxford University Computing Service | the English way. 13 Banbury Road, Oxford, OX2 6NN, UK | The time is come, the song is over. Tel: +44-865-273200 Fax: +44-865-273275 | Thought I'd something more to say. ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 18:03:06 GMT From: Robert Sheaffer Subject: Swift-Tuttle Comet a threat to earth? Newsgroups: sci.astro,sci.space But assuming that it is possible to fragment the nucleus of the comet, this imparts a transverse velocity to the fragments that they did not previously have. If they previously were exactly on the "right" path to strike earth, by imparting motion to them along a right-angle to that path, won't even a relatively small delta to their previous path cause the vast majority of the fragments to miss earth? -- Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! "Beware when the great God lets loose a thinker on this planet. Then all things are at risk. It is as when a conflagration has broken out in a great city, and no man knows what is safe, or where it will end." - Emerson: Essay, "Circles" ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 14:56:19 GMT From: David Knapp Subject: Why Vote? Newsgroups: talk.abortion,soc.motss,sci.space In article <92307.013333U56503@uicvm.uic.edu> writes: > WHY VOTE? > >The reward of a thing well done >is to have done it. > --Emerson > One never notices what has been done; > One can only see what remains to be done. > --Marie Curie Etc. Voting is really only useful for getting those people off your back who believe that if you *don't* vote, you shouldn't complain about the current state of goverment. Clearly, an individual's vote doesn't matter at all as evidenced by the way the election turns out whether they vote or not. Voting is a symbolic, not a functional, act. Until we get rid of the electoral college, the individual vote will *always* be discounted and we will not be living in a democracy. It is very true that we live in a _democratic republic_, but which do *you* value more, the democratic part, or the republic part? -- David Knapp University of Colorado, Boulder Perpetual Student knapp@spot.colorado.edu ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 16:35:47 GMT From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" Subject: Why Vote? Newsgroups: talk.abortion,soc.motss,sci.space In article <1992Nov2.145619.20752@ucsu.Colorado.EDU>, knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes: |> Clearly, an individual's vote doesn't matter at all as evidenced by the |> way the election turns out whether they vote or not. Voting is a symbolic, |> not a functional, act. This has a minute amount of truth if you discount any election below the presidential level. Which reminds me: California voters: even if a projection is made before you vote... VOTE! There are still two senate races to be decided. A failure to vote for Clinton if he is projected the winner, for instance (or even if he has already accepted), is not unlike a vote for Herschensohn... |> It is very true that we live in a _democratic republic_, but which do *you* |> value more, the democratic part, or the republic part? Both equally, of course: the former to keep us from the tyranny of the minority, and the latter, from the tyranny of the majority. -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE +1 415 ALL-ARFF rogerk@unpc.QueerNet.ORG {ames,decwrl,pyramid}!sgiblab!unpc!rogerk "Normal is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from." -- J. Foster ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 17:27:30 GMT From: "Tracy E. Finifter" Subject: Why Vote? Newsgroups: talk.abortion,soc.motss,sci.space You forgot this one: Democracy is the worst form of government known to man, except for all the others. - Winston Churchill (or something to that effect) -- * Tracy E. Finifter * "Anyone who is capable of getting * * finifter@gandalf.rutgers.edu * themselves made President should * * Douglass College, Rutgers University * on no account be allowed to do * * New Brunswick, New Jersey * the job." - Hitchhikers Guide * ------------------------------ Date: 2 Nov 92 17:44:30 GMT From: Jim Mann Subject: Why Vote? Newsgroups: sci.space In article <1992Nov2.145619.20752@ucsu.Colorado.EDU> knapp@spot.Colorado.EDU (David Knapp) writes: > Until we get rid of the electoral college, the individual vote will *always* > be discounted and we will not be living in a democracy. How does that follow? Who gets the electoral votes in a state is determined by the popular vote in the state. > > It is very true that we live in a _democratic republic_, but which do *you* > value more, the democratic part, or the republic part? Both, actually. One reason we are a Republic (or Democratic Republic, to use your term) is to, at least in part, to prevent the government from becoming government by popular opinion poll. When things are working right, our representatives can refine the will of the people, and look toward long term solutions that are good for the country as a whole, not just what seems right at this particular minute, for this particular local interest. -- Jim Mann Stratus Computer jmann@vineland.pubs.stratus.com ------------------------------ End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 371 ------------------------------