Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from hogtown.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) ID ; Fri, 7 Jun 91 03:47:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Fri, 7 Jun 91 03:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #614 SPACE Digest Volume 13 : Issue 614 Today's Topics: Asteroid mining Re: Budget Numbers Wanted NASA Prediction Bulletins, Part 1 Re: SPACE STATION FREEDOM WOUNDED Re: SPACE STATION FREEDOM WOUNDED Re: space news from March 18 AW&ST Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 20 May 91 19:00:38 GMT From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!pitt!nss!Paul.Blase@lll-winken.llnl.gov (Paul Blase) Subject: Asteroid mining to: space-request+@ANDREW.CMU.EDU s> The resources I'm thinking of may be salable (even at VERY low s> prices) in the very short-term. I.E. before real operations get s> started. Take nickel. It's current price is around $1/lb. With s> a typical Nickel Asteroid, you could sell it for $.05/lb, and s> still make a klilling. (Do you know how much nickel would be in s> an asteroid 1km wide?). Could any mining company compete? More s> importantly, could we get them to invest? Your points are well taken. Take a moment to think, however, about the political flak we'll get from the mining unions when we start to take jobs away from them! We would definitely have to get the mining unions, in any case, involved. I don't know if you could get the mining companies themselves to invest, mostly due to short- sightedness. For example, you would think that the railroad companies would be the ones to start out the airline industries, after all they have experience in running large transportation systems according to a timetable. --- via Silver Xpress V2.26 [NR] -- Paul Blase - via FidoNet node 1:129/104 UUCP: ...!pitt!nss!Paul.Blase INTERNET: Paul.Blase@nss.FIDONET.ORG ------------------------------ Date: 23 May 91 05:25:35 GMT From: agate!earthquake.Berkeley.EDU!fcrary@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Frank Crary) Subject: Re: Budget Numbers Wanted As can be seen from Stephen Walton's post, most programs did not recieve "the money taken away from Freedom" the following items are the only ones to recieve more money without Freedom as opposed to with Freedom: LANDSAT Classroom of the Future CEISIN Facility The following did not LOOSE money, as a result of the deletion of Freedom: New Launch Systems SETI SIRTF & OSL's Phase B AXAF EOS CRAF NASP Space automation and robotics Academic Programs Assured Shuttle Capability Structural Spares (for Shuttle) There were a large number of items which lost LESS money as a result of Freedom being removed, but were still cut back. From the above, I think it is clear than space science did not recieve the money taken from Freedom. Clearly, they would have been worse off had Freedom continued, but they also did not profit from it. Frank Crary UC Berkeley ------------------------------ Date: 20 May 91 21:54:50 GMT From: udecc.engr.udayton.edu!blackbird.afit.af.mil!tkelso@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (TS Kelso) Subject: NASA Prediction Bulletins, Part 1 The most current orbital elements from the NASA Prediction Bulletins are carried on the Celestial BBS, (513) 427-0674, and are updated several times weekly. Documentation and tracking software are also available on this system. As a service to the satellite user community, the most current of these elements are uploaded weekly to sci.space. This week's elements are provided below. The Celestial BBS may be accessed 24 hours/day at 300, 1200, or 2400 baud using 8 data bits, 1 stop bit, no parity. - Current NASA Prediction Bulletins #846a - Alouette 1 1 00424U 62B-A 1 91132.01299309 .00000249 00000-0 28823-3 0 4254 2 00424 80.4676 321.8644 0023275 144.8655 215.4028 13.67526151427634 ATS 3 1 03029U 67111 A 91136.69347041 -.00000076 00000-0 99999-4 0 5779 2 03029 13.6089 18.3468 0015468 224.7987 135.0237 1.00272919 86136 Cosmos 398 1 04966U 71 16 A 91139.14560635 .00088166 20326-4 42208-3 0 6175 2 04966 51.4839 79.2077 2026185 88.4108 294.6240 11.59641335629633 Starlette 1 07646U 75010 A 91136.38975175 -.00000033 00000-0 21585-4 0 2749 2 07646 49.8273 283.7185 0206391 211.4878 147.3530 13.82157074821860 LAGEOS 1 08820U 76039 A 91134.29937681 .00000005 00000-0 99999-4 0 2803 2 08820 109.8334 108.5571 0044218 168.0420 192.1055 6.38664278 95080 GOES 2 1 10061U 77048 A 91134.70441287 -.00000247 00000-0 99999-4 0 6243 2 10061 9.0733 58.4995 0106862 36.0864 325.2337 1.00221521 52334 IUE 1 10637U 78012 A 91135.80120171 -.00000178 00000-0 79862-4 0 2754 2 10637 32.8289 113.5041 1403099 2.1583 358.4664 1.00279233 9801 GPS-0001 1 10684U 78020 A 91137.00875038 .00000003 00000-0 99999-4 0 6784 2 10684 63.8826 79.2421 0125897 198.4487 161.0588 2.00553455 82549 GPS-0002 1 10893U 78 47 A 91136.51536721 -.00000021 00000-0 99999-4 0 3871 2 10893 64.2241 320.0848 0172565 24.0423 336.7745 2.00533397 95357 GOES 3 1 10953U 78062 A 91134.01484700 .00000112 00000-0 99999-4 0 1291 2 10953 7.7370 62.3450 0004676 95.5653 264.3502 1.00295300 394 SeaSat 1 1 10967U 78064 A 91137.40283731 .00001557 00000-0 57085-3 0 5449 2 10967 108.0221 290.3713 0002771 224.2416 135.8527 14.36623282674434 GPS-0003 1 11054U 78093 A 91133.75805539 -.00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 4297 2 11054 63.6440 316.2323 0066291 117.3340 243.3451 2.00571859 92313 Nimbus 7 1 11080U 78098 A 91128.24696047 .00000167 00000-0 18083-3 0 7761 2 11080 99.1739 30.4407 0008564 298.8743 61.1549 13.83549939632980 GPS-0004 1 11141U 78112 A 91136.88084453 .00000003 00000-0 99999-4 0 1845 2 11141 63.9744 79.1138 0063687 310.4277 48.9950 2.00544906 91078 GPS-0005 1 11690U 80 11 A 91137.01699907 .00000005 00000-0 99999-4 0 1805 2 11690 64.3631 81.3971 0122870 202.1136 157.3193 2.00552668 96936 GPS-0006 1 11783U 80 32 A 91135.99357968 -.00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 4771 2 11783 63.3169 315.8286 0191735 28.6617 332.3857 2.03456373 81002 GOES 5 1 12472U 81049 A 91137.93877655 .00000139 00000-0 99999-4 0 1308 2 12472 4.2986 71.5888 0002783 281.5831 78.1388 1.00268678 35586 Cosmos 1383 1 13301U 82 66 A 91136.21690063 .00000169 00000-0 18778-3 0 7287 2 13301 82.9298 56.6914 0027721 327.3160 32.6276 13.67919495443203 LandSat 4 1 13367U 82 72 A 91137.74814271 .00000397 00000-0 93022-4 0 8015 2 13367 98.1159 197.8113 0002839 144.6435 215.4938 14.57161437470028 IRAS 1 13777U 83 4 A 91136.01831541 .00000001 00000-0 12992-4 0 9823 2 13777 99.0148 332.4389 0012233 188.9293 171.1654 13.98946187 93475 Cosmos 1447 1 13916U 83 21 A 91134.00151397 .00000157 00000-0 15399-3 0 8260 2 13916 82.9472 127.5101 0037374 300.9084 58.8401 13.74144192408104 TDRS 1 1 13969U 83 26 B 91137.99525532 .00000126 00000-0 99999-4 0 3866 2 13969 5.2864 62.7554 0003187 9.3564 350.4824 1.00273902 2709 GOES 6 1 14050U 83 41 A 91135.93310926 .00000116 00000-0 99999-4 0 4798 2 14050 3.0580 74.2108 0001635 333.5705 26.0879 1.00256566 1476 OSCAR 10 1 14129U 83 58 B 91138.10904151 -.00000109 00000-0 99998-4 0 6743 2 14129 25.8164 145.1928 6022329 242.7457 44.6724 2.05885438 31622 GPS-0008 1 14189U 83 72 A 91132.25424452 .00000002 00000-0 99999-4 0 9752 2 14189 63.5375 77.5490 0142658 225.6585 133.1393 2.00568127 57360 LandSat 5 1 14780U 84 21 A 91137.78462252 .00000428 00000-0 99999-4 0 6576 2 14780 98.2387 198.6087 0001505 58.6806 301.4535 14.57103399383447 UoSat 2 1 14781U 84 21 B 91136.09853870 .00002279 00000-0 41567-3 0 162 2 14781 97.9011 182.1096 0011380 273.3846 86.6115 14.66897529384743 GPS-0009 1 15039U 84 59 A 91132.42798765 .00000002 00000-0 99999-4 0 2295 2 15039 63.2913 76.6481 0029137 226.4370 133.2927 2.00565160 50649 Cosmos 1574 1 15055U 84 62 A 91137.52845510 .00000147 00000-0 14645-3 0 814 2 15055 82.9600 175.8338 0028891 110.5639 249.8630 13.73455441345967 GPS-0010 1 15271U 84 97 A 91136.36200029 -.00000021 00000-0 99999-4 0 787 2 15271 63.0390 315.0772 0112960 333.1081 26.3088 2.00565347 47833 Cosmos 1602 1 15331U 84105 A 91129.30391814 .00004638 00000-0 60101-3 0 5945 2 15331 82.5552 58.2586 0021954 351.0356 9.0458 14.80484197356297 NOAA 9 1 15427U 84123 A 91136.20237631 .00000588 00000-0 33566-3 0 7817 2 15427 99.1700 148.9509 0015571 151.0598 209.1435 14.13000398331001 GPS-0011 1 16129U 85 93 A 91136.08107490 .00000003 00000-0 99999-4 0 7768 2 16129 64.0573 77.7937 0123223 147.0868 213.6616 2.00565003 41037 Mir 1 16609U 86 17 A 91138.93213175 .00037619 00000-0 36149-3 0 4769 2 16609 51.6057 75.6359 0005270 191.0614 169.0058 15.66189729300588 SPOT 1 1 16613U 86 19 A 91137.69048708 .00000664 00000-0 32977-3 0 3423 2 16613 98.6948 212.1586 0000613 22.5462 337.5738 14.20021436111405 Cosmos 1766 1 16881U 86 55 A 91137.87023553 .00004080 00000-0 53732-3 0 4396 2 16881 82.5185 108.9513 0020657 341.1604 18.8842 14.79815346258601 EGP 1 16908U 86 61 A 91125.70537642 -.00000037 00000-0 12710-4 0 3728 2 16908 50.0148 344.4914 0011206 297.1403 62.8289 12.44394662215014 NOAA 10 1 16969U 86 73 A 91136.08819367 .00000740 00000-0 33786-3 0 6300 2 16969 98.5676 161.1067 0014103 25.5480 334.6393 14.24123638241988 MOS-1 1 17527U 87 18 A 91138.19312051 .00001320 00000-0 10068-2 0 8486 2 17527 99.0710 210.8024 0000691 60.3134 299.8078 13.94898575215965 GOES 7 1 17561U 87 22 A 91131.66408156 -.00000048 00000-0 99999-4 0 8339 2 17561 0.0785 81.1765 0001384 310.2549 329.2998 1.00272631 161 Kvant-1 1 17845U 87 30 A 91138.93211730 .00055312 00000-0 52788-3 0 5985 2 17845 51.6050 75.6322 0004838 196.8074 163.1691 15.66192183300582 DMSP B5D2-3 1 18123U 87 53 A 91137.83261036 .00000811 00000-0 44116-3 0 9964 2 18123 98.8144 328.9677 0014850 147.4407 212.7685 14.14586389201708 RS-10/11 1 18129U 87 54 A 91138.96515494 .00000243 00000-0 25534-3 0 6505 2 18129 82.9267 80.4507 0010269 268.5447 91.4522 13.72186790195580 Meteor 2-16 1 18312U 87 68 A 91137.68972802 .00000319 00000-0 27850-3 0 6846 2 18312 82.5577 25.1602 0013730 38.5479 321.6657 13.83793899189241 Meteor 2-17 1 18820U 88 5 A 91137.89759054 .00000208 00000-0 17520-3 0 5307 2 18820 82.5401 84.3716 0017994 101.0913 259.2270 13.84482110166490 DMSP B5D2-4 1 18822U 88 6 A 91137.85505996 .00000842 00000-0 39804-3 0 8957 2 18822 98.5982 14.2056 0007398 30.2630 329.8974 14.22016889170374 Glonass 34 1 19163U 88 43 A 91138.66650051 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 3056 2 19163 64.9165 147.9726 0007099 205.1812 154.8048 2.13102541 23298 Glonass 36 1 19165U 88 43 C 91138.25404015 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 3049 2 19165 64.8993 147.9798 0005316 318.3342 41.6468 2.13102909 23288 AO-13 1 19216U 88 51 B 91121.30113593 .00000118 00000-0 99999-4 0 2712 2 19216 56.8390 97.0967 7167973 253.2812 22.8340 2.09698033 22073 OKEAN 1 1 19274U 88 56 A 91137.68467723 .00003860 00000-0 51770-3 0 1424 2 19274 82.5165 207.8922 0022560 108.5952 251.7712 14.78990085154328 Meteor 3-2 1 19336U 88 64 A 91137.78672765 .00000030 00000-0 65848-4 0 7825 2 19336 82.5442 40.7028 0016359 193.9909 166.0762 13.16923284134997 Glonass 39 1 19503U 88 85 C 91138.27403749 -.00000018 00000-0 99999-4 0 2098 2 19503 65.4688 27.2826 0004341 187.2968 172.7583 2.13103534 20778 NOAA 11 1 19531U 88 89 A 91137.10306663 .00000644 00000-0 37179-3 0 5336 2 19531 99.0283 91.6596 0013144 65.6984 294.5549 14.12141722136080 TDRS 2 1 19548U 88 91 B 91132.84510220 .00000114 00000-0 99999-4 0 2720 2 19548 0.9861 80.4293 0001887 15.2678 264.4283 1.00274073 8227 Glonass 40 1 19749U 89 1 A 91138.31539972 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 81 2 19749 64.8603 147.6345 0007766 275.3524 84.5797 2.13101987 18307 Glonass 41 1 19750U 89 1 B 91138.37342154 .00000020 00000-0 99999-4 0 296 2 19750 64.8795 147.6601 0007864 258.4169 101.5196 2.13102282 18304 GPS BII-01 1 19802U 89013 A 91103.54677754 .00000080 00000-0 26739 3 0 02338 2 19802 055.0738 185.5709 0049862 165.7198 194.4554 02.00562574015774 Akebono 1 19822U 89 16 A 91138.36146366 .00037252 00000-0 20717-2 0 217 2 19822 75.0955 72.0312 4083464 4.4701 358.3210 7.29581502 23933 Meteor 2-18 1 19851U 89 18 A 91137.88451758 .00000177 00000-0 14939-3 0 4828 2 19851 82.5219 321.7745 0014644 140.8984 219.3237 13.84133340111869 MOP-1 1 19876U 89 20 B 91 83.49540771 .00000025 00000-0 99999-4 0 1840 2 19876 0.2910 50.4188 0001552 314.1531 355.4087 1.00273956 3471 TDRS 3 1 19883U 89 21 B 91134.46934412 -.00000235 00000-0 99999-4 0 2757 2 19883 0.9655 79.6303 0002738 325.1899 315.2130 1.00274868 78210 GPS BII-02 1 20061U 89 44 A 91103.87321174 -.00000034 00000-0 99999-4 0 2711 2 20061 54.8877 3.6255 0090918 184.4845 175.4971 2.00566450 13525 Nadezhda 1 1 20103U 89 50 A 91137.72937654 .00000142 00000-0 13923-3 0 3804 2 20103 82.9629 38.3935 0036819 184.8442 175.2361 13.73689305 93645 GPS BII-03 1 20185U 89064 A 91104.71060838 -.00000123 00000-0 00000 0 0 01797 2 20185 054.9166 186.3301 0020176 172.0341 188.0316 02.00562496012111 GPS BII-04 1 20302U 89085 A 91106.73331065 -.00000084 00000-0 00000 0 0 01794 2 20302 054.3986 304.6789 0029381 333.0204 026.8604 02.00556152010956 Meteor 3-3 1 20305U 89 86 A 91137.61468355 .00000043 00000-0 99999-4 0 3800 2 20305 82.5567 342.1282 0015245 213.3942 146.6219 13.15953492 74932 -- Dr TS Kelso Assistant Professor of Space Operations tkelso@blackbird.afit.af.mil Air Force Institute of Technology ------------------------------ Date: 21 May 91 07:09:32 GMT From: wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!slacvm!doctorj@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu (Jon J Thaler) Subject: Re: SPACE STATION FREEDOM WOUNDED >>The something wrong is people who devote their attention to shallow >>heroes instead of the real heroes of space like James Van Allen, >>Ed Danielson, Eleanor Helin, Steve Ostro, and the many others who >Please clear something up for me Mr. ...... Just who exactly is it that >you consider "shallow" heroes. Is it perhaps the three astronauts who died >on the pad during the Apollo program, or is it the seven men and women who >died on board Challenger? I'd really like to know how you can compare the >likes of James Van Allen to these people who made the ultimate sacrifice >in the service of their country. I'm waiting to hear what you have to say. +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | PLEASE !!! | | I beg you guys not to start a flame fest. There is all too much of | | that already. It is clear that you have different views of what is | | most important. Public disputation will only raise the animosity level.| +------------------------------------------------------------------------+ ------------------------------ Date: 21 May 91 06:01:54 GMT From: newton.cs.jhu.edu!callahan@umd5.umd.edu (Paul Callahan) Subject: Re: SPACE STATION FREEDOM WOUNDED In article <1991May20.224807.4640@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov> ddc@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV (Douglas Creel) writes: >>The something wrong is people who devote their attention to shallow >>heroes instead of the real heroes of space like James Van Allen, >>Ed Danielson, Eleanor Helin, Steve Ostro, and the many others who > >Please clear something up for me Mr. Szabo. Just who exactly is it that >you consider "shallow" heroes. Is it perhaps the three astronauts who died >on the pad during the Apollo program, or is it the seven men and women who >died on board Challenger? I'd really like to know how you can compare the >likes of James Van Allen to these people who made the ultimate sacrifice >in the service of their country. I'm waiting to hear what you have to say. I have no idea what Mr. Szabo has to say, but this line of argument bothers me. Certainly, I have no wish to trivialize the deaths of astronauts, but dying for a cause must be distinguished from successfully advancing it. For example, it is objectively clear that James Van Allen has done more to pave the way for space exploration than, say, Christa McAuliffe, even though the latter died in the line of duty. Certainly, the willingness to give up one's life for a cause proves a great deal about individual character, but this is not the issue at stake. The issue is the nuts and bolts behind space exploration. The public has always been willing to mourn those who have died bravely. What I believe Mr. Szabo is saying is that the public should be equally willing to applaud those who have made great accomplishments, even if there was little physical danger involved. Ultimately, heroic acts are far less desirable than discoveries that make heroic acts unnecessary. -- Paul Callahan callahan@cs.jhu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 21 May 91 19:25:57 GMT From: carroll@a.cs.uiuc.edu (Alan M. Carroll) Subject: Re: space news from March 18 AW&ST In article <1991May20.034518.6909@agate.berkeley.edu>, fcrary@lightning.Berkeley.EDU (Frank Crary) writes: > The second alternative > is just TOO LONG for a safe, productive mission (almost 3 years). > Workshop recomended that "fast" missions be ignored. The 1000 day hohmann > orbit requires not only less fuel, but provides a reasonable ammount of > time on the surface (about 460 days.) I'm missing this. The fast orbit takes a total of 34 months, or roughly 1020 days. That's too long, but a 1000 day mission isn't? -- Alan M. Carroll <-- Another casualty of applied metaphysics Epoch Development Team Urbana Il. "I hate shopping with the reality-impaired" - Susan ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V13 #614 *******************