Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from hogtown.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Wed, 16 Jan 91 22:01:23 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <8bZFBz600WBwMGDk49@andrew.cmu.edu> Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 22:01:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: SPACE Digest V13 #058 SPACE Digest Volume 13 : Issue 58 Today's Topics: Re: LOX/LH2 in the Shuttle Payload Bay Re: Viking landers Re: Cameras in 0G, was: Re: MIR Vacation Re: LOX/LH2 in Shuttle Payload Bay (Landing Limits) Re: Barium/Lithium altazimuths comets Re: LOX/LH2 in the Shuttle Payload Bay Re: some questions Re: space news from Dec 17 AW&ST Re: LOX/LH2 in the Shuttle Payload Bay Re: Metrics (was Re: Rotating Joints for Habitat) now: prn of Kilomet Need bitmail server address for same or similar group barium/lithium release Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription requests, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 16 Jan 91 22:19:02 GMT From: usc!samsung!caen!engine.engin.umich.edu!sheppard@apple.com (Ken Sheppardson) Subject: Re: LOX/LH2 in the Shuttle Payload Bay I wrote: >In article <1991Jan16.192740.24664@isis.cs.du.edu> gaserre@isis.UUCP (Glenn A. Serre) writes: >> >>Also, someone please refresh my memory on the length of the Shuttle cargo bay. >> > > I believe the payload envelope is 14.5 ft in diameter and 45 ft long. > I don't know why I wrote that. It's actually 60 ft long. I discovered the error as soon as I read my own post. Ack. I promise I'll proofread from now on. -- =============================================================================== Ken Sheppardson Email: kcs@sso.larc.nasa.gov Space Station Freedom Advanced Programs Office Phone: (804) 864-7544 NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA FAX: (804) 864-1975 =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jan 91 22:05:16 GMT From: snorkelwacker.mit.edu!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utzoo!henry@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: Viking landers In article <1991Jan16.213132.14123@maytag.waterloo.edu> dmurdoch@watstat.waterloo.edu (Duncan Murdoch) writes: >Are the Viking landers still transmitting? ... Nope. Lander 2 went silent fairly early, I forget why. Lander 1 was active for several years, but was eventually lost; as I recall, this was ultimately traced to a mistake on the ground, a la Phobos 1, that caused the lander to point its antenna at the ground. -- If the Space Shuttle was the answer, | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology what was the question? | henry@zoo.toronto.edu utzoo!henry ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jan 91 18:25:20 GMT From: snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!ncs.dnd.ca!jstewart@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (John Stewart) Subject: Re: Cameras in 0G, was: Re: MIR Vacation In article <569@dtg.nsc.com> alan@dtg.nsc.com (Alan Hepburn) writes: >Don't tell me that my camera won't work up there; I have the same camera >that NASA chose for their flights. The Hasselblad was chosen because >it was the only camera that required NO modification for 0G operation. From my memory; the lenses had to be designed to operate in a vacuum. I think that the diffraction of a glass/air boundary is different than that of a glass/vacuum boundary. Is that right? John Stewart jstewart@ncs.dnd.ca ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jan 91 05:09:04 GMT From: snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!zardoz.cpd.com!dhw68k!ofa123!Wales.Larrison@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Wales Larrison) Subject: Re: LOX/LH2 in Shuttle Payload Bay (Landing Limits) Dave McKissock writes: >Shuttle Centaur would have had approximately 40,000 pounds of fuel >on-board. This load, in addition to the weight of the Centaur >structure, mounting support structure, and the payload, would have >exceeded the return-to-launch-site abort weight restrictrictions of >the Shuttle (for one example). > Hence, the requirement to dump the fuel on the Centaur prior to a >RTLS abort. Ahhh.... I disagree. All shuttles are qualified to return with a fully-loaded payload bay in an RTLS abort (65,000 lbs). The regular landing limit is only about 30,000 lbs (depending on which vehicle) in the payload bay. The difference is the 65,000 lbs is emergency limit loads meaning they are sure it will survive 1 landing with a fully-loaded payload bay without destroying itself. The lower limit is the limit load for which they are sure it will get at least 100 flights without problems. For example, a TDRS/IUS combination in the payload bay is about 47,000 lbs. You can't dump the IUS (solid fuel motors), and returning with the IUS in the bay would exceed the standard landing down-payload load. Talking this over a couple of years ago with some of the shuttle structural stress/loads engineers, they stated it would land O.K. with up to 65,000 pounds in the payload bay (plus full OMS tanks and a full 30,000 lb crew cabin) during a RTLS abort, but they'd "sure want to pull that landing gear and inspect it for warpage". -------------------------------------------------------------------- Wales Larrison Space Technology Investor -- Wales Larrison Internet: Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org Compuserve: >internet:Wales.Larrison@ofa123.fidonet.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jan 91 16:05:16 GMT From: snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!samsung!umich!sharkey!cfctech!norm@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Norman J. Meluch) Subject: Re: Barium/Lithium altazimuths >The time of the first small barium release has been decided upon. > EST Long Deg W Lat Deg N Height km > +-------------+----------+---------+---------+ > |Jan. 14 23:11| 97.7 | 17.9 | 14800| > +-------------+----------+---------+---------+ And indeed it went off as planned. I even got to see this one through the low fog in this area! It was only visible for ~ 2 minutes near orion's left shoulder, but hey. >The second attempted release will be another large lithium (difficult to see >so they say :-) release at any of the following times: As it stands that large lithium release was scrubbed due to "lack of proper particle conditions in the magnetosphere". Therefore they will attempt it again tonight at: Jan 16 04:00 UT or Jan 16 04:30 UT or Jan 16 05:00 UT or Jan 16 05:30 UT that's all they're saying right now. - Norm. -- |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Norman J. Meluch ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| | Mail: norm@cfctech.cfc.com Fax:(313)948-4975 Voice:(313)948-4809 | | Note: The opinions expressed here are in no way to be confused with valid | |_______ideas or corporate policy.____________________________________________| ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Jan 91 06:20 EST From: "Mike Bishop" Subject: comets who or where can I obtain information on comets visible with an 8 inch telescope? thanks in advance mike ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jan 91 20:40:53 GMT From: agate!bionet!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!engine.engin.umich.edu!sheppard@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Ken Sheppardson) Subject: Re: LOX/LH2 in the Shuttle Payload Bay In article <1991Jan16.192740.24664@isis.cs.du.edu> gaserre@isis.UUCP (Glenn A. Serre) writes: > >Also, someone please refresh my memory on the length of the Shuttle cargo bay. > I believe the payload envelope is 14.5 ft in diameter and 45 ft long. -- =============================================================================== Ken Sheppardson Email: kcs@sso.larc.nasa.gov Space Station Freedom Advanced Programs Office Phone: (804) 864-7544 NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton VA FAX: (804) 864-1975 =============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jan 91 05:16:47 GMT From: bud@g.ms.uky.edu (William K. Glunt --- green eyed devil) Subject: Re: some questions In article Earl W Phillips writes: >1) Once I know the lat, long location of my site, how >do I translate these figures to decimal? Huh? What are they in now, octal? :-) Bud -- William K Glunt | Are you ABNORMAL? U of Kentucky Math Dept.| Then you are probably better than most people! 606 258 8864 | Are alien space monsters bringing a STARTLING NEW | WORLD? from _The book of the SubGenius_ ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jan 91 17:59:05 GMT From: idacrd!mac@princeton.edu (Robert McGwier) Subject: Re: space news from Dec 17 AW&ST From article <1991Jan16.043500.14220@zoo.toronto.edu>, by henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer): > > Battle brewing over radio spectrum: the space between 1435 and 1530 MHz > is currently allocated entirely to aircraft/missile flight-test telemetry, > but several groups proposing CD-quality audio broadcasting from satellites > would like pieces of it. The aviation people are violently opposed, saying > the band is intensively used and should not be sacrificed to "yet another > entertainment and advertising vehicle". The FCC has already shot down the > broadcasters' contention that the two groups could share the frequencies, > saying this shows "fundamental misconceptions regarding the way in which > flight test operations are conducted". > AMSAT was in line to lose some spectrum around 2400 Mhz (which is where the FCC's second notice put the Broadcast Satellite Sound stuff). First of all, the article Henry has given a synopsis of was severely flawed. There was never any intention on the part of the service providers to provide CD quality audio. They did intend to deliver digital audio, compressed, but at a low bandwidth and with few bits per PCM sample. AMSAT engineers (myself, Jan King primarily with input from others) went over the proposals in detail and absolutely destroyed them. You must maintain certain link margins (signal strengths) to deliver digital data by the proposed schemes or the bit error rate would be exceedingly high (too much for the error correcting code proposed and even those NOT proposed). There does not exist a satellite currently being manufactured in the western world that could deliver either the power required to cover a large area, or sufficient antenna footprints to make up for the power that COULD be delivered. In short, it was a stupid idea at this time. Given that 99.99% of drivers do NOT drive a Lexus, the noise floor in an automobile (even with headphones on) simply will not deliver the required dynamic range to warrant even attempting to deliver CD quality audio IMHO. Both at the FCC, and in many startup corporations like the ones proposing this, the CPA's, MBA's, and lawyers have replaced good solid engineering upon which to test the merit of these proposals. While in general, I believe the FCC is doing a good job in a time of poor funding for them, I was appalled to find out that there are no engineers on the personal staffs of the commissioners and that they are filled up with (you guessed it) lawyers. This can and should be changed. Bob -- ____________________________________________________________________________ My opinions are my own no matter | Robert W. McGwier, N4HY who I work for! ;-) | CCR, AMSAT, etc. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jan 91 19:27:40 GMT From: isis!gaserre@uunet.uu.net (Glenn A. Serre) Subject: Re: LOX/LH2 in the Shuttle Payload Bay Also, someone please refresh my memory on the length of the Shuttle cargo bay. -- --Glenn Serre gaserre@nyx.cs.du.edu ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jan 91 18:25:03 GMT From: timbuk!cs.umn.edu!sialis!orbit!pnet51!schaper@uunet.uu.net (S Schaper) Subject: Re: Metrics (was Re: Rotating Joints for Habitat) now: prn of Kilomet I always thought `kilometre' was pronounced `klick'. ************************************************************************** Zeitgeist Busters! UUCP: {amdahl!bungia, uunet!rosevax, chinet, killer}!orbit!pnet51!schaper ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!schaper@nosc.mil INET: schaper@pnet51.cts.com ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jan 91 20:12:03 GMT From: agate!bionet!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!maverick.ksu.ksu.edu!matt.ksu.ksu.edu!camelsho@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Raouls Used CamlShop) Subject: Need bitmail server address for same or similar group I am looking for the address for the bitmail listserv group that is the equivalent to this group. One of my instructors (James R. Underwood at Kansas State University) has recently had a modem installed on his office pc. He is interested in keeping up with anything having to do with interplanetary geology. I told him that I would try to get the list server address for him. Could someone please email it to me? (I dont always read this group.) I would certainly appreciate the favor. thanks, james seymour camelsho@matt.ksu.ksu.edu ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jan 91 23:19:12 GMT From: snorkelwacker.mit.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!aplcen!warper.jhuapl.edu!sterner@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Ray Sterner) Subject: barium/lithium release Sorry about the lateness of this post but the hot line didn't give enough information until about 6 pm EST, too late for most easterners. Only one release time was mentioned and it was stated that due to the large distances this is expected to be quite faint. Good luck. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Combined Release and Radiation Effects Satellite (CRRES) Marshall Space Flight Center hotline: 205-544-5356. Values are for a spherical earth with no atmospheric refraction. Distances in km, angles in degrees. Universal time is given. Small barium release at 06:24:59 16 Jan 1991 UT. Satellite altitude = 23975. Sub-satellite lat, long (deg) = -0.70 53.80 City Satellite City Lat Long Azi Alt Dist Anchorage, AK 61.2 149.8 85.1 -15.2 31394 Atlanta, GA 33.8 84.4 133.8 35.3 26219 Bermuda, UK 32.3 65.8 158.8 46.8 25386 Chicago, IL 41.8 87.6 135.3 26.9 26933 Columbus, OH 40.0 83.0 139.5 31.0 26573 Dallas, TX 32.8 96.8 120.8 26.7 26951 Denver, CO 39.7 105.0 117.8 16.7 27899 Detroit, MI 42.4 83.2 140.6 28.9 26756 Edmonton, ALB 53.5 113.5 115.6 4.8 29148 El Paso, TX 31.8 106.4 112.5 19.2 27655 Flagstaff, AZ 35.3 111.7 110.5 13.5 28223 Honolulu, HI 21.3 157.8 85.5 -24.4 32421 London, UK 51.5 0.0 239.8 9.0 28693 Los Angeles, CA 34.0 118.3 105.6 8.5 28743 Mexico City, MEX 19.5 99.2 109.1 30.8 26590 Miami, FL 25.8 80.2 132.0 44.7 25527 Montreal, QUE 45.5 73.6 153.5 30.1 26645 New York, NY 40.7 74.0 151.0 34.8 26256 Paris, FR 48.8 2.3 238.6 11.7 28405 Phoenix, AZ 33.5 112.0 109.5 13.9 28186 Pittsburgh, PA 40.4 80.0 143.2 32.2 26470 San Juan, PR 18.5 66.2 146.3 61.5 24593 Salt Lake City, UT 40.8 111.9 112.7 11.2 28459 San Francisco, CA 37.8 122.3 104.1 4.3 29205 Seattle, WA 47.6 122.3 106.7 1.6 29494 St. Louis, MO 38.7 90.3 130.7 27.6 26865 Tucson, AZ 32.3 111.0 109.6 15.1 28055 Washington, DC 38.8 77.0 146.1 35.2 26224 Winnipeg, MAN 50.6 96.3 130.5 15.6 28011 Ray Sterner sterner%str.decnet@warper.jhuapl.edu Johns Hopkins University North latitude 39.16 degrees. Applied Physics Laboratory West longitude 76.90 degrees. Laurel, MD 20723-6099 ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V13 #058 *******************