Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Thu, 26 Jul 1990 02:28:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Thu, 26 Jul 1990 02:27:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V12 #130 SPACE Digest Volume 12 : Issue 130 Today's Topics: Re: 4 Questions Re: MIR cosmonauts do 7 hour space walk to fix Soyuz TM-9 blankets Re: Polar Orbits Re: Hubble, Shuttle Re: "Captain Midnight" Re: MIR cosmonauts do 7 hour space walk to fix Soyuz TM-9 blankets Re: Launch Costs Again Re: Launch Costs Again Re: Freedom What if? Re: What if? Re: Balloons, anyone? Re: Freedom RE: USSR and USA allied Re: Discussion on engineering education newsgroup Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription notices, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 25 Jul 90 02:53:33 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!zardoz.cpd.com!dhw68k!ofa123!Charles.Radley@ucsd.edu (Charles Radley) Subject: Re: 4 Questions There was a Shuttle launch which was aborted at t-30 seconds, that mission would have resulted in in-flight abort because a large qunatity of propellant had been accidentally dumped pre-launch and nobody noticed till later, and the mission would have failed to achieve orbit. I do not remember exactly when it was, but I was at the Cape that day and was mad that it got scrubbed at the last half-minute. I will try and find a reference for the Spacelab book you request, those books are published by Johnson Space Center, Houston. The center in charge of MANNED spaceflight is Johnson Space Center, Houston, sop they probably do the most space biology. -- Charles Radley Internet: Charles.Radley@ofa123.fidonet.org BBS: 714 544-0934 2400/1200/300 ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jul 90 01:05:01 GMT From: usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jpl-devvax!lwall@ucsd.edu (Larry Wall) Subject: Re: MIR cosmonauts do 7 hour space walk to fix Soyuz TM-9 blankets In article <1084@ke4zv.UUCP> gary@ke4zv.UUCP (Gary Coffman) writes: : Seriously, deep sea salvage divers routinely work in conditions just : as hazardous and uncomfortable. This whole romance of space walking : thing seems overblown to me. Amen! I was brought up to believe a space suit should smell of dirty socks. Early SF writers seemed to be under the impression that most of the construction work would be done in space suits. Now we're worried 'bout a little too much space walking? So send up 5 or 10 extra bodies, and some extra space suits, already. Find some hardy folks that've already raised their families. Offer to pay their life insurance premiums for them. Give them a short course in changing light bulbs and fuses, and launch 'em. Expect a few to become orbital mummies--they get free cremation eventually. Advertise that that job is riskier than driving U-boats (either type), and then you won't get so much flak when it proves to be so. Cheaper than spending n gigabucks to redesign it all Yet Again. Yes, it's an oversimplification. We could use a few right now. Larry Wall lwall@jpl-devvax.jpl.nasa.gov ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 05:25:25 GMT From: swrinde!emory!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary@ucsd.edu (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: Polar Orbits In article 27000@AECLCR.BITNET (SIMMONS DONALD F) writes: > > What exactly does a spaceport's location have to do with whether or not >it can launch into a polar orbit? I know that you can polar launch from >Vanderburg but not from Cape Canaveral, but I don't understand what the >crucial difference between the two is. > Safety! You do not fly boosters over heavily populated areas. Look at a map. Gary ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 25 Jul 90 17:53:45 EDT From: John Roberts Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are those of the sender and do not reflect NIST policy or agreement. Subject: Re: Hubble, Shuttle >From: rochester!ray@PT.CS.CMU.EDU (Ray Frank) >Subject: Re: Hubble Trouble ... >But I am against such oversights as not making an end to end test of >such complicated devices. I am against the money wasted when it doesn't >work and we can't do anything about it because it's up there now and >not down here. Why do you think we can't do anything about it? Even the TV and newspapers have started to catch on to the idea of correcting the optics in the replacement instruments (which were planned anyway). ... >I am against the odds that within the next 30 launches there is a 50-50 >chance of another shuttle disaster. Then you're pretty much against spaceflight. Those are very good odds by non-Soviet standards. Note that one orbiter lost per ~50 flights is a trivial contribution to total operational costs with the current setup. Give a few million dollars to the families of whoever was aboard (if they were killed), and build a new orbiter. The Shuttle isn't unsafe, it's expensive. John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 07:40:33 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!emory!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary@ucsd.edu (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: "Captain Midnight" Captain Midnight jammed HBO from a commercial teleport in Florida where he was employed. The alleged reason for the jamming was the negative impact that scrambling was having on his sideline business of installing personal earth stations. He was sentenced to six months in prison and he forfeited his commercial and amateur radio licenses. Please note that the fact that he held an Amateur Radio license had nothing to do with the jamming. He used a commercial uplink site to perform the jamming. Gary KE4ZV ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 05:21:21 GMT From: swrinde!emory!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary@ucsd.edu (Gary Coffman) Subject: Re: MIR cosmonauts do 7 hour space walk to fix Soyuz TM-9 blankets In article APSEY%RCSMPB@gmr.com writes: > Congratulations to the Soviet Cosmonauts Anatoly Solyov and Alexander >Balandin, for their bravery and expert work during yesterday's seven hours in >raw space, a task for which they were not specifically trained! Their seven >hours in space was unexpected and unplanned for, yet they did what they had to >do to maintain their space complex. > Seven hours in raw space? I thought they wore suits. These Commies must really be tough.:-) Seriously, deep sea salvage divers routinely work in conditions just as hazardous and uncomfortable. This whole romance of space walking thing seems overblown to me. Gary ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 23:07:09 GMT From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!rex!rouge!dlbres10@ucsd.edu (Fraering Philip) Subject: Re: Launch Costs Again In article <825.26ADB63A@ofa123.fidonet.org> Charles.Radley@ofa123.fidonet.org (Charles Radley) writes: CR>thank you for your informative message. It appears I was out by CR>a factor of about 2.5 Pegasus is only twice as expensive as delta, CR>not five times. Don't forget that for smaller payloads, due to not having to share the booster, etc.. Pegasus might be better. Also, since you're risking less payload each launch, the insurance ought to be somewhat cheaper. Phil ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 02:29:46 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!zardoz.cpd.com!dhw68k!ofa123!Charles.Radley@ucsd.edu (Charles Radley) Subject: Re: Launch Costs Again thank you for your informative message. It appears I was out by a factor of about 2.5 Pegasus is only twice as expensive as delta, not five times. -- Charles Radley Internet: Charles.Radley@ofa123.fidonet.org BBS: 714 544-0934 2400/1200/300 ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 21:49:19 GMT From: solntze.Eng.Sun.COM!livesey@sun.com (Jon Livesey) Subject: Re: Freedom In article <730@ksr.com> clj@ksr.com (Chris Jones) writes: >In article <1990Jul24.164959.23850@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo (Henry Spencer) writes: >>In article <1990Jul24.052208.19989@portia.Stanford.EDU> zimdars@portia.Stanford.EDU (David Zimdars) writes: >>>Of course, the Soviets aren't immune from such sentiment either. I believe >>>that "Mir" translates as Peace ... >> >>It's even better than you think. "Peace" does not have quite the same >>connotations in Russian as it does in English, due to different cultural >>background and historical influences. The English connotation of harmony- >>and-coexistence is replaced by a connotation of lack-of-dangerous-opposition. >>"Mir" means "peace through overwhelming superiority". How appropriate... > >I forwarded this article to a coworker who speaks excellent Russian (having >grown up there) and he said: > > He's probably pulling the sci.space's collective leg, unless something has > changed while my back was turned. "Mir" is pretty much "peace", except that > in Russian it doubles as "world." Hence a famous Russian pun "Mir miroo" - Peace to the World. jon. ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 16:00:20 GMT From: philmtl!atha!aunro!myrias!alberta!arcsun.arc.ab.ca!erkamp@uunet.uu.net (Bob Erkamp) Subject: What if? What if on a particular day at a particular time (synchronized to G.M.T.) as many people, cars, and boats as could be convinced to co-operate (ala Hands Across America) started moving in an easterly direction for a sustained amount of time (say an hour or so). Do you think if this was done on a worldwide basis we could slow down the earths rotation? It would be nice to have a day that is in synch with our body clock (about 25 hours I beleive). What would the implications be? Something to think about? Bob Erkamp ------------------------------ Date: 26 Jul 90 01:24:11 GMT From: netnews.upenn.edu!grad2.cis.upenn.edu!santerel@rutgers.edu (Walter Santarelli) Subject: Re: What if? In article <1990Jul25.160020.3582@arcsun.arc.ab.ca> erkamp@arcsun.UUCP (Bob Erkamp) writes: >What if on a particular day at a particular time (synchronized to G.M.T.) as >many people, cars, and boats as could be convinced to co-operate (ala Hands >Across America) started moving in an easterly direction for a sustained amount >of time (say an hour or so). Do you think if this was done on a worldwide basis >we could slow down the earths rotation? It would be nice to have a day that is >in synch with our body clock (about 25 hours I beleive). What would the >implications be? Something to think about? > >Bob Erkamp You're forgetting about a phenomenon called conservation of angular momentum. As everyone slowed down to stop the earth would regain its normal rotational velocity. All that would be accomplished is lengthening of one day for some folks. -wally ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Walter A. Santarelli University of Pennsylvania, Computer and Info. Science MIT A/A '86 My opinions are my own. e-mail:santerel@grad1.cis.upenn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 11:56:30 GMT From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!dsinc!netnews.upenn.edu!grad2.cis.upenn.edu!santerel@ucsd.edu (Walter Santarelli) Subject: Re: Balloons, anyone? The benefits gained by launching a rocket from high altitude balloons may be mitigated by guidance initialization problems. In the 1970's, a plan to air launch MX missiles from cargo planes was examined as a cheap deployment technique. The missile was to be dropped from the plane on a parachute and fired when the plane was at a safe distance. The program was not successful in achieving accurate trajectories due to initialization errors. The problems associated with shifting winds and oscillations in altitude and speed introduced too many unknowns. The project was abandoned after some test firings. Balloons may introduce the same sorts of problems. I don't know if orbital insertion is as demanding of accurate trajectories as ICBM's, but I would guess that the errors introduced by the balloon would make this a very difficult problem. -wally ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Walter A. Santarelli University of Pennsylvania, Computer and Info. Science MIT Aero/Astro '86 e-mail:santerel@grad1.cis.upenn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 13:13:21 GMT From: snorkelwacker!bu.edu!xylogics!world!ksr!clj%ksr.com@apple.com (Chris Jones) Subject: Re: Freedom In article <1990Jul24.164959.23850@zoo.toronto.edu>, henry@zoo (Henry Spencer) writes: >In article <1990Jul24.052208.19989@portia.Stanford.EDU> zimdars@portia.Stanford.EDU (David Zimdars) writes: >>Of course, the Soviets aren't immune from such sentiment either. I believe >>that "Mir" translates as Peace ... > >It's even better than you think. "Peace" does not have quite the same >connotations in Russian as it does in English, due to different cultural >background and historical influences. The English connotation of harmony- >and-coexistence is replaced by a connotation of lack-of-dangerous-opposition. >"Mir" means "peace through overwhelming superiority". How appropriate... I forwarded this article to a coworker who speaks excellent Russian (having grown up there) and he said: He's probably pulling the sci.space's collective leg, unless something has changed while my back was turned. "Mir" is pretty much "peace", except that in Russian it doubles as "world." So, I think this is one of those stories that the tellers believe because they want it to be true, not because it has evidence on its side. Chris Jones clj@ksr.com {world,uunet,harvard}!ksr!clj ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 11:12:49 EDT From: Dan Sullivan Subject: RE: USSR and USA allied To: X-Office-To: USENET SMTP Worth Henry a writes: > After 45 years of treating the rest of the world as 2nd and 3rd class > citizens ... How is this? By sending them $$$ by the truckload only to have them piddle it away then crawl back asking for more, all the while shouting that it is all the fault of the US for thier problems in the first place? > Major shared problems include: >> drug abuse and AIDS Drug abuse - for sure, AIDS - not really. AIDS claims about 50K people per year (in the US) and research is funded to the tune of $750 million. By comparison, breast cancer claims about 1 million (I thin, an order of magnitude greater than AIDS anyway) and is funded to the tune of $17 million. (auto accidents claim 60K and heart attacks claim 1.5 million). I would add to his list: A BLOATED ever expanding government! dan sullivan ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jul 90 20:46:40 GMT From: usc!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!dali.cs.montana.edu!milton!unicorn!n8035388@ucsd.edu (Worth Henry A) Subject: Re: Discussion on engineering education newsgroup In article <1990Jul24.023044.4438@zoo.toronto.edu> henry@zoo.toronto.edu (Henry Spencer) writes: > >It would help, considerably, to undo the old merger that united Composition >and Literature into English. English teachers like to teach Literature, >which does little or nothing for the communications skills, because >Composition is hard to teach. >-- Yes, and merge composition into nearly all of the engineering and science courses. Of course, the faculty would then have to learn how to grade compositions... ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V12 #130 *******************