Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Mon, 25 Jun 1990 01:28:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Mon, 25 Jun 1990 01:27:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #567 SPACE Digest Volume 11 : Issue 567 Today's Topics: Just DO IT! Weather pics, data Scientific American has an article on commercial space Re: redefining time units (was Re: SpaceList) Rogers' Commission Report HUBBLE TELESCOPE NEWS More on NASA 91 Appropriation Vote Re: NSS protests Chinese launch pricing Re: AMROC Re: NSS protests Chinese launch pricing Re: 10 psi overpressure Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription notices, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 21 Jun 90 19:19:10 GMT From: usc!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!zardoz.cpd.com!dhw68k!ofa123!David.Anderman@ucsd.edu (David Anderman) Subject: Just DO IT! About ignoring the government, stop torturing congresspersons about space issues, and just going ahead and building your own rockets: Number one: that's what AMROC tried to do. In their case, it didn't particularly work well, perhaps someone here can do better. I believe, however, that the chances of someone on this net actually going forward are fairly small. The problem with the statement, however, is that even if you can organize a real "space" company, you still can't afford to ignore the politicians. The government bureaucracy will try to stifle you, if only out of concern for your company's success. You need to get poltical support (still) if you want to "compete" with NASA --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Universal Electronics, Inc. (1:103/302.0) -- uucp: David Anderman Internet: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org BBS: 714 544-0934 2400/1200/300 ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jun 90 05:55:04 GMT From: netcom!teda!ditka!mcdchg!laidbak!obdient!vpnet!jason@apple.com (Jason J. Levit) Subject: Weather pics, data I've become pretty interested in obtaining this weather data and pictures people have started talking about. I'm a MAJOR weather buff, and I plan to go into Meteorlogy as a career. If anyone knows how to obtain recent pictures (within 24 hours or sooner) through ftp, I would be really interested. I've started to investigate the source at VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU, but if there's any place else that provides this stuff, I'd like to know. GIFS, Weather Data, Radar Digitizations, Sat. Pictures (same as GIFS), you name it, I'll go for it. Seems to me that SOMEWHERE out there in netland, there must be a government NOAA site or an Air Force site or something that turns these things into GIFS. Or they could turn them into GIFS rather quickly. Thanks for the help.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ : A good planet is hard to find. Jason J. Levit : : Let's save this one! jason@vpnet.chi.il.us : ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ APPLE II FOREVER! ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 90 22:09:06 GMT From: uvaarpa!murdoch!astsun8.astro.Virginia.EDU!gl8f@mcnc.org (Greg Lindahl) Subject: Scientific American has an article on commercial space The July, 1990 issue of Scientific American (which is available in many countries other than the US) contains an article entitled "The New Space Race", which discusses commercial spaceflight. I found it to be very interesting. -- "Perhaps I'm commenting a bit cynically, but I think I'm qualified to." - Dan Bernstein ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 90 16:35:33 GMT From: att!watmath!maytag!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Brian or James) Subject: Re: redefining time units (was Re: SpaceList) A clarification: When I said I wanted one day to equal 10**5 seconds, I didn't mean 'redefine the second so that 10**5 of them equal what we now call 8.64x10**4'. I meant 'redefine the *day* to equal 10**5 seconds'. Our current day [God, do I dread using that phrase in this newsgroup] would be about .864 Standard Days long. This is lots easier than changing a fundimental measuring unit like the second [but no more likely to be adopted,alas]. JDN ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jun 90 05:31:51 GMT From: usc!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!zardoz.cpd.com!dhw68k!ofa123!Mark.Perew@ucsd.edu (Mark Perew) Subject: Rogers' Commission Report If you are interested in getting the "Report to the President by the Presidential Commission on the Space Shuttle Challenger Accident" it is available from the National Technical Information Service (NTIS) (do not call the Gov't Printing Office!) The NTIS phone # is (703) 487-4600 The prices are: Volume I $31.00 ADA 171 402 % This is the actual commission % report. It has the synthesized % version of the information in % appendices. Also has Appendices % A-D which are commision activities % and procedures. Volume II/III $57.50 ADA 171 403 % Appendices E-O which are mostly % NASA investigation team reports. % It also includes Appendix F % "Personal Observations on % Reliability of Shuttle" by % Richard P. Feynman, PhD. Volume IV/V $69.00 ADA 171 404 % Transcripts of the public % hearings. I have found the report useful not only in getting a better understanding of how STS 51-L failed but in its discussion of shuttle systems. In order to understand how a system failed it is generally good to know how it is *supposed* to operate. This report is good, IMHO, is explaining how things should work on the shuttle. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Universal Electronics, Inc. (1:103/302.0) -- uucp: Mark Perew Internet: Mark.Perew@ofa123.fidonet.org BBS: 714 544-0934 2400/1200/300 ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 90 13:34:11 GMT From: netcom!teda!ditka!mcdchg!laidbak!obdient!gagme!arf@apple.com (jack schmidling) Subject: HUBBLE TELESCOPE NEWS COPE "NEWS" A participant on the Amateur Radio Forum passed along a news brief heard on Hubble. But as usual, it just left one hanging with either wrong information or not enough. It went something like..... "The entire Hummble memory is erased everytime it passes over the South Atlantic abnormality." First of all, it is hard to believe that all of its memory is lost on a regular basis. Secondly, what is the "South Atlantic abnormality"? ***************************** ARFNET: A Network of concerned Americans utilizing computer and ham radio communication links. Unix: arf@lopez Amateur Radio Forum (ARF) NR9Q Thurs 09:PM CST 3950 KHZ Jack Schmidling for County Commissioner NEVER VOTE FOR THE INCUMBENT! VOTE SOLIDARITY ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 90 17:59:06 GMT From: usc!samsung!umich!umeecs!itivax!vax3.iti.org!aws@ucsd.edu (Allen W. Sherzer) Subject: More on NASA 91 Appropriation Vote I recently posted the results of the House Appropriation Subcommittee vote which zeroed out almost all the money for SEI. Several people have written asking questions. To save time (and in case anybody else is interested), I will answer them here. 1. What does this mean? This means that almost nothing will be done on the Presidents moon/Mars program this year unless the Senate puts money in and the conference committee agrees with it. It also indicates that the House Appropriations Subcommittee which funds NASA is opposed to human exploration. After all, the only money being asked for is to study the problem. Some of the members (Congressman Green for example) are famous for their opposition to human exploration. There are also two longer term bad indications in this vote. The first is the increased funding for Mission to Planet Earth. It got every penny it asked for and then an additional $40 million or so. MPE is a BIG program. If this continues in the out years when MPE needs big $$ a lot of space science programs will get killed. In a few years, we may see CRAF/Cassini or Mars Observer canned to free money for MPE. Getting MPE out of NASA and into NOAA should be a high priority for any space enthusiast (no matter how you feel on human exploration). The second is the effect it may have on Bush. The President, the VP, the Budget Director, and the Chief of Staff are all big supporters of human space exploration. This is the first time we have had this much support this high in the administration (including JFK). They support this, but they are also political realists. They are expending a lot of political capital here and aren't seeing much return. Without support they could decide it's not worth it and look for other issues. Future presidents will take note of this and not waste their time with space. 2. Why did it happen? In a nutshell, because Bob Traxler (D-MI) and Richard Malow (chief staffer on the appropriation subcommittee that funds NASA) didn't want it to happen. Bob Traxler heads the Appropriations Subcommittee for HUD, VA, and Independent Agencies. Traxler doesn't care about NASA (because his constituents don't care) and so he lets Malow take care of all the NASA funding issues. In other words, a staffer who nobody ever voted for gets to decide what NASA will do. Why is Malow opposed to SEI? My sources tell me that it is mainly a lack of money. Now, for the NASA $500B program, he is correct. However, there are lots of proposals for far far less and if we can get the SEI money from the Senate, we may get a good idea what it will cost. Malow is also rather closed minded. He has already decided it will cost $500B and nothing will change his mind. A personal theory of mine is that it may reflect an attempt to get Bush to call for raise taxes. They take a high profile program Bush has invested political capital in and tell him it won't happen because of money. Part of the budget deal in the works may be more taxes with some going to space. 3. What can we do now? It is too late to do anything in the House. The full Appropriations Committee will vote on it next Tuesday and the full House on Thursday. It would be very rare for the full committee to change anything and even rarer for the full house to make changes. We must focus efforts on the Senate. VISIT, write, and call your Congresscritters in both houses. Do it in that order, if everybody who reads this visits their congressperson, they would find the money. This is a long term strategy but an important one. For this vote, you should call and write Senator Mikulski and your own senator (ESP if they are on the Appropriations Committee). Ask her to make full funding of SEI part of the Senate NASA Appropriation bill. Remember, it's not too late. Last year NASP was in similar shape but funding was restored in large part because of grassroots suport. When you write, DON'T ask for full funding for NASA. Ask for the things you want (like full funding for SEI). If you ask for only full NASA funding, they will figure you will be happy with the increase they got (overall, NASA is getting about 15% more). They need to understand that you have goals you want followed and that is what should be funded. Don't let them think that you will be happy if they just throw more money at NASA. Write to your local and national media. Ever seen or read a statement by Bush on SEI? As soon as the quote is over the announcer or writer tells us that: "SEI is the Presidents $500 billion, 30 year program to explore the moon and Mars". Those statements are wrong and damaging. There are several architectures which will cost far less and do it in less time. Every time the media uses this $500B figure, SEI becomes that much harder to sell. Don't let then get away with it. When you hear $500B from somebody, fire off a polite letter to them pointing out the error. Send them some material on the LLNL Great Exploration program. In fact, don't trust their science reporters to get it right; write your own article on the Great Exploration and give it to your local paper. Write a note to the President and VP. Tell them you support their efforts to promote SEI. They need to know that their efforts are appreciated. As I said above, their support is costing them in Congress. Your letter will show Bush his efforts are appreciated and worth it. Finally, a bright note to conclude on. While everybody is focused on SEI, there is good news elsewhere. The Authorization committee for NASA in the House has some very big plans next year to support commercial space. It looks like the Title II Commercial Launch Act Amendment will stay in the NASA 91 Authorization bill. If we can get the Senate to enact an authorization bill, there is a good chance it will become law. Also under everybody's nose, LLNL is proceding with the Great Exploration. The appropriation for the national labs was last week and there is money for Great Exploration work. There is also a good chance LLNL will get a green light to continue this year or next. Allen PS. If you need help with any of this, drop me a line. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Allen W. Sherzer | Death to all extremists! | | aws@iti.org | | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: 24 Jun 90 20:25:21 GMT From: cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!qucdn!gilla@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Arnold G. Gill) Subject: Re: NSS protests Chinese launch pricing In article <612.2680E236@ofa123.fidonet.org>, David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org (David Anderman) says: > >Hmmmm....NSS is protesting that the Chinese launch payloads too cheaply. >Since the key factor in space development is the (present) high cost of >getting into low Earth orbit, it isn't too surprising that NSS >headquarters is worried that the Chinese are charging too little to get >to LEO. However, this whole thread hinges on the premise that what the NSS decides is the `correct' price for space flight has any relevance in the rest of the world. If all of the hardware is produced internally, and labour is cheap, is it any surprise that the price is far lower in China than the US? This is a real red-herring argument - and a very arrogant one on top of that. The NSS is esentially deciding what costs should be everywhere in the world. Just because the US may have priced itself out of the market, doesn't mean that someone else should not be allowed to do it cheaper. I always thought that that was the point behind competition - but I forget myself. In the US, competition is wonderful - unless, of course, you're not American. ------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | Arnold Gill | | | Queen's University at Kingston | If I hadn't wanted it heard, | | BITNET : gilla@qucdn | I wouldn't have said it. | | X-400 : Arnold.Gill@QueensU.CA | | | INTERNET : gilla@qucdn.queensu.ca | | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ Date: 25 Jun 90 00:05:53 GMT From: news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@rutgers.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: AMROC In article <14824@thorin.cs.unc.edu> beckerd@grover.cs.unc.edu (David Becker) writes: >What is AMROC up to these days? Last I heard they were patching up >their rocket from the first launch attempt. >When will they attempt another launch? They have, temporarily at least, decided to try to function as an engine supplier rather than a launch firm. -- As a user I'll take speed over| Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology features any day. -A.Tanenbaum| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jun 90 19:15:24 GMT From: usc!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!zardoz.cpd.com!dhw68k!ofa123!David.Anderman@ucsd.edu (David Anderman) Subject: Re: NSS protests Chinese launch pricing Here's a puzzler: what if the Chinese offered to launch *people* into space at a lower rate than the US (assuming that the US actually charged money for space flights). Should the NSS oppose cheap spaceflight, even if it could culminate in the creation of a spacefaring civilization? --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Universal Electronics, Inc. (1:103/302.0) -- uucp: David Anderman Internet: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org BBS: 714 544-0934 2400/1200/300 ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jun 90 19:12:44 GMT From: usc!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!zardoz.cpd.com!dhw68k!ofa123!David.Anderman@ucsd.edu (David Anderman) Subject: Re: 10 psi overpressure I would recommend you follow up with Henry Spencer on this topic; I have exceeded whatever expertise or recollection on the accident I had; however, I do maintain that the accident was not caused by an explosion; the transcript mentions an explosion in the aft ET section, which is unfortunate wording. I believe the correct term is something like deflagaration, which doesn't appear in my dictionary. --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Universal Electronics, Inc. (1:103/302.0) -- uucp: David Anderman Internet: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org BBS: 714 544-0934 2400/1200/300 ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V11 #567 *******************