Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Sun, 17 Jun 1990 01:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Sun, 17 Jun 1990 01:42:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #535 SPACE Digest Volume 11 : Issue 535 Today's Topics: Re: NASA announces next steps in Space Exploration Outreach Program (Forwarded) Re: NASA Data access on Internet? Re: Public Perception Of Space (was Re: US/Soviet Planetary Activity) Re: Egomania GIF files Re: NSS protests Chinese launch pricing/L4 Society Re: Color fotos/slides of galaxies NGC 4565, NGC 4594, and NGC 5128 Re: cosmosphere Re: Tides Re: Space Sail Race Satellite photos for BITNET users Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription notices, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 15 Jun 90 15:04:33 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!icdoc!mvax.cc.ic.ac.uk!sunb!zmapj36@uunet.uu.net (M.S.Bennett Supvs= Prof Pendry) Subject: Re: NASA announces next steps in Space Exploration Outreach Program (Forwarded) How in the name of god can you ask people to come up with new ways of of getting to the moon when the funding for these projects is vanishing up its only congresional commitee! This is rather too awful - if we (the west) do not do it, then corporations or other non accountable groups will move into space- and we, the people, will never see the fruits of space only an economic tyrany. ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jun 90 20:44:30 GMT From: frooz!cfa.HARVARD.EDU@husc6.harvard.edu (Steve Willner, OIR) Subject: Re: NASA Data access on Internet? From article <75494@aerospace.AERO.ORG>, by smith@aerospace.aero.org (Thomas F. Smith): > In the article it says "...anyone with access to the Internet, > BITNET, or Telenet computer network can call NSSDC computers > > So HOW? The NSSDCA machine is "NSSDCA" (6276) on SPAN and "nssdca.gsfc.nasa.gov" (128.183.10.4) on the Internet. Telnet, SET HOST, or rlogin to get the "Username:" prompt. ('dlogin' is even better if you happen to have an Ultrix machine on SPAN.) You can also dial in via 301-286-9000 (300, 1200, or 2400 baud, full duplex, 8 bits, no parity, one stop). At the "Enter Number:" prompt, enter MD and carriage return. When the system responds "Call Complete," enter a few more carriage returns to get the "Username:" prompt. I have no idea how to get there from Bitnet or Telenet. Once at the "Username:" prompt, enter "nodis" and carriage return. You then get asked for identification and then are given a menu. I believe item 1 is the master index, but that should be obvious. Note that most of what they have is an index to the data rather than the actual data. However, there are instructions for requesting data. Also look at the CANOPUS newsletter system, which has NASA launch manifests on file. (Though not copyable the last time I tried :-( ) Europe has a separate system, located in Strasbourg. Good luck. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Steve Willner Phone 617-495-7123 Bitnet: willner@cfa Cambridge, MA 02138 USA Internet: willner@cfa.harvard.edu ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jun 90 06:51:41 GMT From: ucselx!bionet!agate!darkstar!ucscb.UCSC.EDU!dove@ucsd.edu (Ray Rischpater) Subject: Re: Public Perception Of Space (was Re: US/Soviet Planetary Activity) In article <15591@bfmny0.BFM.COM> tneff@bfmny0.BFM.COM (Tom Neff) writes: >People who want NASA to make cute TV commercials to "sell" space don't >seem to understand that Congress has the purse strings, and they would >pitch holy hell if they saw the agency buying advertisements. It would >be seen by *all* parties concerned -- including the White House and the >Pentagon, who have dozens of things they'd love to be able to "sell" -- >as crude politicking. If NASA were supposed to buy ads, the >Administration would include a line item for it in its budget and the >House would appropriate the money. That's how the Armed Forces >recruiting spots work; the Congressional armed services committees >consent because it's understood that recruiting is basic to the >all-volunteer service. I realize that completely. Personally, I'd like to see it done by a private firm, or (gasp) a non-profit organization. But then again, I'm a hopeless romantic. It could be done easily by a large firm operating at a loss, though, I suppose. I know very little about costs for production of things like that. > >Big aerospace contractors DO sell ads touting space -- watch the Sunday >morning political shows, where it's assumed the movers and shakers are >watching. The idea I was having of "selling space" was not so much to sell the public, but inform them. Rather than an emotional plea, something like a short version of "The Powers of Ten" film, brief shots of a planet and explanation of something we've learned, and so on. >Teach< the people something, so that they can make an >educated< decision, rather than spread more emotional propaganda. > >As for "Hey Joe! Colonize Mars Now!" and other such Dickian stuff, that >will have to wait for the market to open up sufficiently for Joe's wallet >to matter. (Hmm, a new Readers' Digest series -- I Am Joe's Wallet...) I agree completely. I'm not even sure if I'd support the space program to that point. I >do< want us to have manned space stations, and a (continuing) manned program on the moon. Colonization? I'd like to see what's out there. -- -- dove@ucscg.ucsc.edu Ray Rischpater -- dove@ucscb.ucsc.edu (408) 426-0716 --As usual, all of the opinions contained herein are my own... ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jun 90 03:45:07 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!umich!ox.com!kitenet!russ@decwrl.dec.com (Russ Cage) Subject: Re: Egomania In article TFLETCH1@UA1VM.UA.EDU ("Thomas Fletcher ", Hellraiser) writes: >You people scare the hell out of me!!!!!!!! > >You seem to think you know all the answers to the earth and universe. If you >know so much about how to "terraform", forget about doing it to other planets, >you had better start right here on good ole earth. We know a bit about terraforming, like the raw physical problems of making (or eliminating) atmospheres. But it's more complicated than that. You are correct, in that anyone who believes that they have the knowledge to do it, is almost certainly suffering delusions of grandeur. That is exactly why I think we should work on closed-system ecologies for space habitats, and some limited terraforming of planets. If the things work, maybe we *do* have the knowledge required. Will Rogers once said, "It ain't what we don't know that hurts us; it's what we know that ain't so." A reality check is a sure-fire way to uncover those things. Testing terraforming and closed ecology systems is the only way to be sure. -- I am paid to write all of RSI's opinions. Want me to write some for you? (313) 662-4147 Forewarned is half an octopus. Russ Cage, Robust Software Inc. russ@m-net.ann-arbor.mi.us ------------------------------ Date: 16-JUN-90 09:35:00 EDT From: Steven R. Heleski Subject: GIF files I have a real interesting questions. 1.) What kind of machine will display files in GIF format? 2.) Where can I find the programs to display GIF files. I am real curious in finding a program which will work on a VMS machine, but I will settle for a program for a PC. Steven Heleski STEVEN@LTUVAX.BITNET ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jun 90 17:18:04 GMT From: fernwood!portal!cup.portal.com!hkhenson@uunet.uu.net (H Keith Henson) Subject: Re: NSS protests Chinese launch pricing/L4 Society Jon Leech (leech@cs.unc.edu) posted: > But then, I remember the days when the L-5 staff and leadership >were actually responsive to the members. Before the move to >Washington, for one thing. I'm with Keith Lofstrom's posting of 19 >Jan 1989 on bureaucratic bozosity of NSS - let's start the L-4 >Society! > > L-5 News 1980 - articles on lightsails and mass drivers. > As Astra 1990 - articles on shuttle launch tours and happenings > on the Hill. > > This is progress? Feh. No, but forming an L4 Society is not the right direction either. How many of you really wanted to be hydroponics farmers at L5? Sure, it is better than staying on the mudball, but given a choice, wouldn't you rather get a little further away? Say a few hundred thousand light years? Given nanotechnology, going that far isn't much harder than building things at L5. I have already started "The Far Edge Committee," dedicated to exploration of the galaxy and holding a party/scientific meeting at the conclusion. At this point it is somewhat informal. Active members will eventually be drawn from those who have completed their cryonic suspension contracts, and that is getting to be a *substantial* fraction of the spacers! A long article on the topic will come out in New Destinies this September, I can send copies by email of MegaScale Engineering (or Party Animals Loose in Space!) to those who have not already seen the article. Keith Henson, a (big deal) founder of L5 :) ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jun 90 15:21:12 GMT From: usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!pogge@ucsd.edu Subject: Re: Color fotos/slides of galaxies NGC 4565, NGC 4594, and NGC 5128 In article <5774@hplabsb.HP.COM>, dsmith@hplabsb.HP.COM (David Smith) writes: > In article <90165.135313CCB104@psuvm.psu.edu> CCB104@psuvm.psu.edu writes: >>Where, please, can I acquire or at least just *see* color photos (prints) or >>color slides of NGC 4565, NGC 4594 and NGC 5128?? > > Try the Field Guide to the Stars and Planets, in the Peterson series. Better yet, the Color Atlas of Galaxies by James Wray (Cambridge University Press) ------------------------------ Date: 15 Jun 90 12:54:49 GMT From: ncrlnk!ncrwic!encad!enprt!hburford@uunet.uu.net (Harry Burford) Subject: Re: cosmosphere C476721@UMCVMB.MISSOURI.EDU ("Bill Ball") writes: >In a note of 30 may pstinson@ucsd.edu mentions some museums including >"the Cosmosphere near Kansas City". Can anyone provide me with more >info on this place? >((( Bill Ball c476721@UMCVMB ) Dept. Pol. Sci. ) U. Mo.-Columbia ) >internet: c476721@UMCVMB.MISSOURI.EDU The Cosmosphere is located in Hutchinson Kansas just north west of Wichita 316-622-2305. There you will find a large collection of space artifacts as well as an OmniMAX theater. The folks at the Cosmosphere are recognized for their talents at space craft restoration and there are several one of a kind objects on display in their museum. For example, I think the Cosmosphere is the only place in the western world where you can view an actual Russian space suit. They also have a German V2 and 'buzz bomb' example of only a couple known to exist in the world. The list goes on ..... The display FAR exceeds the display at the Smithsonian. Back in March I had an opportunity to attend their ASTRA program. This was a 'space camp' for adults and was held on a Saturday. Got to fly in their full motion space shuttle simulator. REAL IMPRESSIVE! Its worth the trip ..... hb -- Harry Burford - NCR Peripheral Products Division, Printer Products PHONE: 316-636-8016 TELEX: 417-465 FAX: 316-636-8889 SLOWNET: 3718 N. Rock Road, Wichita KS CALL: KA0TTY C-$erve: 76367,151 SS: 9.5 Harry.Burford@Wichita.NCR.COM ------------------------------ Date: 14 Jun 90 15:54:17 GMT From: att!drutx!druwa!rcb@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (BakerRC) Subject: Re: Tides In article <1990Jun8.163052.19763@oracle.com>, fmcwilli@oracle.oracle.com (Floyd McWilliams) writes: > > I've been thinking about the Earth's tides, and there's something > I can't figure out. > > The Sun has 27,000,000 times the Moon's mass (the Sun is 333,000 > times more massive than the Earth, which has 81 times the Moon's mass). > > The Sun is 391 times more distant than the Moon (93,000,000 / > 238,000). > > Therefore, the Sun's gravitational pull on the Earth is 177 times > that of the Moon (divide mass ration by square of distance ratio). > > This is what we would expect -- we revolve around the Sun every > year, not the Moon. But it seems to me that tides caused by the Sun > should be 177 times stronger than those caused by the Moon! What's wrong > with my reasoning? Tides are caused not by gravity itself but by differential gravity. That is, tides are caused by the fact that the ocean nearest the moon feels more lunar gravity than the solid earth, it being closer than the center of the earth. This also explains the apparent wierdness that there is also a high tide AWAY from the moon. The center of the earth is closer than the far side ocean and so the earth is being pulled away from that water. Thus we need to calculate differential gravity to calculate sun/moon relative tidal effect. This is the differential of the above equation, m/r**3. Given your numbers, this comes to .451, about what I remember. (Wow that actually worked out.) Interesting side note: earths differential gravity is what causes satelittes to tend to point with their long axis pointing up/down. This is how they kept LDEF oreinted, and it sounds like MIR now has to fight it with their new added module in its' current configuration. The largest example of this effect of course is the moon. The moon is like an unbalanced beach ball, the near side being heavier. Over the eons, the moon has settled with the heavy side down :-). Moons of other planets also do this, and for awhile they thought Mercury, too. Gee, maybe the dark side ought to be called the light side :-). Any questions? Robin "Radar" Baker ------------------------------ Date: 16 Jun 90 13:29:35 GMT From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!watserv1!maytag!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll@ucsd.edu (Brian or James) Subject: Re: Space Sail Race A few people have mentioned 'Project Solar Sail' in this newsgroup, so I went out and got a copy. It's a reasonably good introductory book on the subject, although I'd seen most of the information before. I had hoped that PSS would have more 'meat' to it [Numbers, equations, some idea how long the damn things take to get around; at my level of physics [Grade 13, with some subjects better] I don't have the math to calculate the paths these things take]. This isn't a critisism of PSS, since I think the book does exactly what the compilers wanted. If anyone has a friend or relative whose looking for an introductory level book to read, this is it. I'd like to plug Frank Kreith's 'Radiation Heat Transfer for Spacecraft and Solar Powerplant Design' as well. A very useful book, its major flaw is that it was written in 1962, and is probably out of print. As an aside, can anyone out there supply me with a program that can calculate roughly the time it takes solar sails to get from orbit a to orbit b? I don't have a Cray, so it would be nice if it was a *short* program :) I realise that this means sacrificing accuracy, but almost anything would be an improvement over my current situation. JDN ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 16 Jun 90 16:31 GMT From: "Joe Desbonnet, UCG Ireland." Subject: Satellite photos for BITNET users For those BITNET users who what to access the satellite pictures at VMD.CSO.UIUC.EDU you can use the Internet/BITNET FTP server at Princeton. Eg if you want to get a directory listing of the files in phil.515 send the following message to BITFTP@PUCC.bitnet FTP vmd.cso.uiuc.edu UUENCODE USER anonymous cd phil.515 dir QUIT Other important commands are 'get', 'binary' and 'ascii'. 'Binary' and 'ascii' switch between binary and ascii modes. Eg if you want a file called T0900419.GIF in that directory substitute 'dir' in the example above for the following two lines: binary get T0900419.GIF That file will be sent to you in parts (in UU format). Other formats are available too but I can't remember what they are off hand. I think if you send a one line msg saying 'HELP' you should get a list of all the commands. Regards, Joe Desbonnet UCG Ireland. ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V11 #535 *******************