Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Tue, 12 Jun 1990 01:29:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Precedence: junk Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Tue, 12 Jun 1990 01:29:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #517 SPACE Digest Volume 11 : Issue 517 Today's Topics: Re: DSN Reliability and Resources Question Re: Weather Satellite Photos Re: Lichens on Mars? Magellan Update - 06/11/90 Re: Ersatz Free Fall Re: Lichens on Mars? Aging Shuttle Fleet Re: SPACE Digest V11 #515 Re: DSN Reliability and Resources Question Re: Doing something/political reality Re: Voyager 1 Images Revealed Amusing verbal typo on BBC TV News today Re: Lichens on Mars? Administrivia: Submissions to the SPACE Digest/sci.space should be mailed to space+@andrew.cmu.edu. Other mail, esp. [un]subscription notices, should be sent to space-request+@andrew.cmu.edu, or, if urgent, to tm2b+@andrew.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 11 Jun 90 05:05:42 GMT From: mnetor!utzoo!henry@uunet.uu.net (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: DSN Reliability and Resources Question In article <2959@rwthinf.UUCP> dieter@rwthinf.UUCP (Dieter Kreuer) writes: >> About JPL providing navigation aid to ESA, Ariane, and Japan,: >> How much do we get paid for it? ... > >How much did ESA get for delivering the first SPACELAB module >to NASA?... How much did NASA pay Australia, Japan, etc. for use of their antennas to receive Voyager Neptune data? (A fairly high fraction of the total large- radio-telescope area of Earth was pointed at Neptune for that.) How much rent does NASA pay for its Deep Space Network sites in Spain and Australia? (Only one of the three DSN sites is on US territory.) How much compensation did the US pay ESA, JSA, and CSA for unilaterally slipping the space-station schedule, thus increasing costs and delaying results for everyone involved? With spaceflight in its current embryonic state, and many services provided only by one-of-a-kind government-run facilities, a lot of this stuff gets done on a you-scratch-my-back-and-I'll-scratch-yours basis. Of course, the scratcher generally gets to decide when and how the scratching is done, and when the would-be scratchee gets sufficiently fed up with the low quality of service, the scratching business gets competitive. As witness Ariane, developed because NASA first said "of course we'll launch your satellites, there's no need for your to develop your own launchers" and then said "uh, well, gee, now that you've started building commercial satellites competitive with US ones, that promise is no longer operative", at which point the Europeans said "**** this" and decided to build launchers they could depend on. -- As a user I'll take speed over| Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology features any day. -A.Tanenbaum| uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 11 Jun 90 07:33:45 EDT From: wells@Compass.COM (Ian Wells) Subject: Re: Weather Satellite Photos I would like to have daily pictures of the earth delivered on the net. It would be great to have a picture of the hemisphere today displayed on my screen. Henry says the images are easy to obtain. I wonder how the images could be compressed enough to make it feasible to blat them out over the net. Even uuencoded compress tar file I imagine would be too large (final form would be postscript). Since a lot of the image would be the same each day, could fractal algorithms be used to compress the image further, given that each receiver had a specialized program to uncompress the image. How small could the transmitted image be made? Ian Wells COMPASS,Inc wells@compass.com ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 90 20:25:01 GMT From: shelby!neon!jkl@eos.arc.nasa.gov (John Kallen) Subject: Re: Lichens on Mars? In article <3537@calvin.cs.mcgill.ca> msdos@calvin.cs.mcgill.ca (Mark SOKOLOWSKI) writes: >In fact, some alguaes and some worms can very well live on VEEEENNNUUUSSSS!!! >Venus is certainly not the hostile hell our current mediatic propaganda >and the mars/moon missions lobbyists are portraying! > >Mark S. Do you have the name of those organisms? _______________________________________________________________________________ | | | | |\ | | /|\ | John Kallen Computer: kom-pyu'-ter (n) a | |\ \|/ \| * |/ | |/| | | PoBox 11215 device for generating errors | |\ /|\ |\ * |\ | | | | Stanford CA 94309 speedily and unpredictably. _|_|___|___|____|_\|___|__|__|_jkl@neon.stanford.edu___________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 90 21:51:17 GMT From: usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!mars.jpl.nasa.gov!baalke@ucsd.edu (Ron Baalke) Subject: Magellan Update - 06/11/90 MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT June 11, 1990 The Magellan spacecraft is operating nominally in cruise mode just 60 days away from Venus Orbit Insertion (VOI). Last week saw the successful upload and initiation of Cruise Sequence 24. All seven star calibrations during the week were fully successful, with an average daily attitude update of 0.17 degrees. A review of all closed VOI action items was held with the project manager at JPL and the orbit insertion computer command sequence was frozen; the spacecraft's software is now set to put Magellan into orbit around Venus. The Magellan spacecraft is 110 million miles from Earth today, and little more than 10 million miles from Venus, traveling at 78,325 miles per hour relative to the sun. One-way light time is 9 minutes, 53 seconds. SPACECRAFT Distance from Earth (mi) 110,470,986 Velocity Heliocentric 78,325 mph One-way light time 9 mins, 53 secs _ _____ _ | | | __ \ | | Ron Baalke | baalke@mars.jpl.nasa.gov | | | |__) | | | Jet Propulsion Lab | baalke@jems.jpl.nasa.gov ___| | | ___/ | |___ M/S 301-355 | |_____/ |_| |_____| Pasadena, CA 91109 | ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 90 13:13:05 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!icdoc!mvax.cc.ic.ac.uk!sunb!umapu02@uunet.uu.net (D.A.G. Gillies Supvsr Dr K.J. Bignell) Subject: Re: Ersatz Free Fall In article <1128@sixhub.UUCP> davidsen@sixhub.UUCP (bill davidsen) writes: > > The Air Force gets about 30 seconds by flying a parabolic trajectory >with a bomber (details if someone has them). They take a Comet up to about 40000 feet and put it into a parabolic trajectory (essentially free fall) which means one can float around inside and get some idea of what a microgravity (aka "weightless" ) environment is like. It has deleterious effects on the inner ear which has led to the plane being known as the "Vomit Comet" !! I saw David Attenborough in it and he looked extremely unwell.Globs of chunder are unpleasant things to have occupying the same space as oneself and,incidentally,are a major hazard in long term missions where they get into the air conditioning and hang around FOR EVER (getting rid of them is like trying to get red wine sick off a duvet,only harder).The presence of liquids in a microgravity environment is dangerous as their inhalation can cause respiratory difficulties eg pneumonia. David Gillies (umapu02@cc.ic.ac.uk) ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 90 03:35:53 GMT From: clyde.concordia.ca!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!physics.utoronto.ca!neufeld@uunet.uu.net (Christopher Neufeld) Subject: Re: Lichens on Mars? In article <90162.232204GILLA@QUCDN.BITNET> "Arnold G. Gill" writes: >In article <3537@calvin.cs.mcgill.ca>, msdos@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Mark >SOKOLOWSKI) says: >>In fact, some alguaes and some worms can very well live on VEEEENNNUUUSSSS!!! >>Venus is certainly not the hostile hell our current mediatic propaganda >>and the mars/moon missions lobbyists are portraying! > Dream on!! Name me one Earth-based life form that lives at temperatures >several hundred degrees above the boiling point of water. > Let's see if I can beat Mark to the 'answer.' How about that ubiquitous example in the popular science press, the deep sea vent micro-ecosystem? Of course, I rather suspect that those creatures would need some aqueous water. The critical temperature of water is 374.1 degrees celcius. No liquid water can exist above this temperature. Consequently, any earth native creatures which could live on the surface of Venus would have to live with no water in its biochemistry. I think I can say with confidence that there are no known examples of such creatures. Mark, am I missing something? > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- >| Arnold Gill | | >| Queen's University at Kingston | If I hadn't wanted it heard, | >| BITNET : gilla@qucdn | I wouldn't have said it. | >| X-400 : Arnold.Gill@QueensU.CA | | >| INTERNET : gilla@qucdn.queensu.ca | | > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- Christopher Neufeld....Just a graduate student | "Yes, well like any open neufeld@helios.physics.utoronto.ca | and shut case this one cneufeld@pro-generic.cts.com Ad astra! | has a few loopholes." "Don't edit reality for the sake of simplicity" | -Maxwell Smart ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 90 12:44:00 EDT From: "61501::BELFIORE" Subject: Aging Shuttle Fleet To: "space+" I heard a (brief) report on NPR this weekend on the condition of our Shuttle fleet. Essentially, considering the serious nature of the Columbia's fuel leak, we have 2 shuttles which are already 20 years old (if you consider the age of most of the components) and are now being asked to do the work of 4 shuttles. Are these remaining vehicles going to remain flightworthy as long as NASA intends? I would hope that somebody *somewhere* who has a vested interest in the aerospace industry would take this oppurtunity to initiate a (private sector) space *program*. If we intend to have a fully functional, orbiting space station, built in space, etc.. in place before the turn of the millenium, I certainly hope that we consider the possibility that the "space-truck of the 80's" may not be the best way to cart all that stuff up into orbit. At least, not without some major overhauls. ******************************************************************************* * BITNet: Shadow@UMass * "The Journey of 10,000 miles begins * * InterNet: belfiore@afgl-vax.af.mil * with but a single, generous * * SPAN: AFGLSC::BELFIORE * donation" * ******************************************************************************* * Shameless Advertising:| ARISIA - February 1-3, 1991; $25 until 31-Dec-1990 * * ======================| (New England's *best* science fiction convention) * * |---------------------------------------------------- * * Eat at Milliway's!! | FAnimato! - The official Mike Jittlov Fan Club; * * | $5/yr until 15-Jul-1990; 1st mailing * * | 16-Jul-1990; Write for Details! * ******************************************************************************* ------------------------------ From: AZM@CU.NIH.GOV Date: Mon, 11 Jun 90 10:33:13 EDT Subject: Re: SPACE Digest V11 #515 > ------------------------------ > > Date: 9 Jun 90 17:08:25 GMT > From: decvax.dec.com!zinn!ubbs-nh!siia!drd@mcnc.org (David Dick) > Subject: Re: mars vs. venus, which is easier to terraform? > > In <30491@cup.portal.com> hkhenson@cup.portal.com (H Keith Henson) writes: > > >Given nanotechnology terraforming either would be a trivial task (though > >it might take a while for venus to cool off.) First thing to do with > >venus would be a sunshade, block *all* the solar input, and let it cool. > >The CO2 could all be liquified and stored in diamond cased cylindars > >underground; convert the sulfer to solid and store it the same way. > >But who wants to stay around this star anyway? Keith Henson > > Wouldn't it be easier to bind the carbon and sulfur into some solid > compounds (limestone == calcium carbonate and some metal sulfide > come to mind)? > > David Dick > Software Innovations, Inc. [the Software Moving Company(sm)] > When did the "SPACE" list become the "SPACE-FANTASY" list? Nanotechnology? Terraforming? Planetoforming? What are these pipe dreams? With current, real, actual, physically existing human technology, the human race is totally incapable of cleaning one, lousy "greenhouse" gas out of the atmosphere of the planet we all live on, even faced with the incentive that "THE INCREASING PRESENCE OF THAT GAS IS THREATENING THE CONTINUED EXISTENCE OF THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE." Get real and stop wasting e-space! Derd Valpar AZM@NIHCU ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 90 16:44:20 GMT From: clyde.concordia.ca!mcgill-vision!quiche!calvin!msdos@uunet.uu.net (Mark SOKOLOWSKI) Subject: Re: DSN Reliability and Resources Question In article <2959@rwthinf.UUCP> dieter@rwthinf.UUCP (Dieter Kreuer) writes: > >How much did ESA get for delivering the first SPACELAB module >to NASA? I'll never understand why they gave it away for free (it >was worth $1 billion, as far as I remember). > Spacelab was given away free. Mark S. ------- ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 90 14:52:22 GMT From: usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!zardoz.cpd.com!dhw68k!ofa123!David.Anderman@ucsd.edu (David Anderman) Subject: Re: Doing something/political reality Avatar, at this point I believe that the principal reason that the politicians in this country have been unwilling to move forward on space development is due to space activists preaching to one another via computer networks rather than informing their elected officials about space policy issues..... --- Opus-CBCS 1.12 * Origin: Universal Electronics, Inc. (1:103/302.0) -- uucp: David Anderman Internet: David.Anderman@ofa123.fidonet.org BBS: 714 544-0934 2400/1200/300 ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 90 08:24:08 GMT From: eru!luth!sunic!mcsun!ukc!axion!axion.bt.co.uk!apengell@BLOOM-BEACON.MIT.EDU (alan pengelly) Subject: Re: Voyager 1 Images Revealed Are NASA going to publish this `family portrait'? regards Alan ------------------------------ Date: 11 Jun 90 09:03:32 GMT From: mcsun!ukc!icdoc!syma!andy@uunet.uu.net (Andy Clews) Subject: Amusing verbal typo on BBC TV News today True story: It seems that the political changes in Eastern Europe are rather more far-reaching than we thought. On the BBC News on TV this morning, the news announcer was reading a report about the fact that the Russians had successfully docked a module containing tools and food with the space station "Mir". She said: "Soviet officials have denied reports that the Communists are stranded aboard the space station, Mir." Methinks she meant to say "cosmonauts".... -- Andy Clews, Computing Service, Univ. of Sussex, Brighton BN1 9QN, England JANET: andy@syma.sussex.ac.uk BITNET: andy%syma.sussex.ac.uk@uk.ac ------------------------------ Date: 12 Jun 90 03:22:04 GMT From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!qucdn!gilla@ucsd.edu (Arnold G. Gill) Subject: Re: Lichens on Mars? In article <3537@calvin.cs.mcgill.ca>, msdos@quiche.cs.mcgill.ca (Mark SOKOLOWSKI) says: >In fact, some alguaes and some worms can very well live on VEEEENNNUUUSSSS!!! >Venus is certainly not the hostile hell our current mediatic propaganda >and the mars/moon missions lobbyists are portraying! Dream on!! Name me one Earth-based life form that lives at temperatures several hundred degrees above the boiling point of water. (I mean lives - eats/reproduces/etc, as opposed to survives for short periods of time.) Or were you thinking about something high up in the atmosphere? ------- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- | Arnold Gill | | | Queen's University at Kingston | If I hadn't wanted it heard, | | BITNET : gilla@qucdn | I wouldn't have said it. | | X-400 : Arnold.Gill@QueensU.CA | | | INTERNET : gilla@qucdn.queensu.ca | | -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V11 #517 *******************