Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from beak.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr11/tm2b/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Thu, 31 May 1990 02:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Thu, 31 May 1990 02:04:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V11 #468 SPACE Digest Volume 11 : Issue 468 Today's Topics: Re: HAWAII AND STAR WARS Your letter, 19 May 1990 Re: Hawaii and Launching rockets Re: HAWAII AND STAR WARS Re: Manned Mission To Venus Re: HAWAII AND STAR WARS Re: One Small Step for a Space Activist Vol 1 No. 5 SPACE DIGEST Re: Doing something Japan's first lunar probe falls silent. Re: Hawaii and 'Star Wars' (long) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 30 May 90 18:38:31 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!aristotle!pjs@ucsd.edu (Peter Scott) Subject: Re: HAWAII AND STAR WARS In article <1990May29.142633.15739@watdragon.waterloo.edu>, jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (Brian or James) writes: > > Hawaii already has [I believe] the highest respiratory > disease rate in the USA. Something to do with volcanic output... > How will the proposed launch rate affect this. Is this a trivial > increase in Hawaiian air pollution and are there ways of minimising > the effect on the Hawaiians? Interesting, I can believe that standing downwind of a volcanic eruption would be bad for the health, but I have also been told by a friend working on Mauna Kea that the cleanest air in the world was measured at the NOAA labs right atop neighboring Mauna Loa. > I think Malaki is now available for > use as a housing location for the various SDI researchers :) A reference to the former leper colony on Molokai? I'm a bit perturbed by the thought of a spaceport on the south coast of the Big Island because it's one of my favorite places -- precisely because it's sparsely inhabited, few roads, etc, yet it is, to me, an area of Outstanding Natural Beauty (ONB) and there are darn few of those that haven't been overtaken by the tourist plague (which is why I avoid Honolulu when I visit the islands). After a recent flight back to L.A. over New Mexico, spending hours passing over monotonous deserts with no distraction from the landscape other than, as one congressman put it, to "see the earth bend", I wish we could put it there. Pretty low on the ONB scale and with enough room that there would be little impact on the desert ecology. Pity about the ground track requirements. Oh well. This is news. This is your | Peter Scott, NASA/JPL/Caltech brain on news. Any questions? | (pjs@aristotle.jpl.nasa.gov) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 90 19:13:25 EDT From: Debra Hisle Subject: Your letter, 19 May 1990 Please forward this to Ray Collins. Ray, Thank you for your note. Yes, I would be interested in being on the network mailing list, at this address. Thanks for telling me about finding the October check; I'd been meaning to write about that, as well as a check in August of 1989. You might look around for it, I'm still including it in my checkbook register... - Deb ------------------------------ Date: 31 May 90 04:37:54 GMT From: uhccux!helen@ames.arc.nasa.gov (Helen Rapozo) Subject: Re: Hawaii and Launching rockets In article <6589@umd5.umd.edu> davidc@umd5.umd.edu (David Conrad) writes: >I always thought the island of Kahoolawe would be a much better choice >as a launch facility: it has no people or endangered species on it, it >has fairly constant good weather since the mountains on the island >aren't high enough to cause local weather and it is useless for almost >any other purpose since the military has used it as a target since >WWII, so almost no one will complain when it is paved over for launch >fields. Also, since the government already 'owns' the island and no >one lives there, the government wouldn't have to pay off the people >who are displaced by the construction. Even security would be easier >since the island is only reachable by a 3 hour (or so) boat ride. ********* Nice idea but: 1) Native Hawaiians in Hawaii does want the island return to the state of Hawaii. 2) No people on it now, some animals, maybe endangered plant species. 3) Lack of fresh water on the island. 4) Unexploded oridiance on the island (it should be sweeped anyway, but they do creep up from time to time). 5) Air traffic in that area is a lot. -- US Mail Address: 874 Dillingham Blvd., Honolulu, HI 96817, Ph# (808) 845-9202 Internet: cs_rapozo@hccadb.hcc.hawaii.edu <-- Pudly MicroVAX II, but it's home! helen@uhccux.uhcc.hawaii.edu <-- Studly VAX 8650 ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 90 16:43:37 GMT From: dfkling@june.cs.washington.edu (Dean F. Kling) Subject: Re: HAWAII AND STAR WARS This is a prime example of the use of environmental protection laws as a blunt instrument for a particular political agenda, which may ultimately result in their being gutted. Note that the inflamed poster was outraged by the "SDI" association, not by the prospect of commercial launches. But the only component of the long list of ecological sins noted that might be SDI specific was the beryllium component of a hypothetical space-based rocket motor. The rest have all had a long history at KSC and elsewhere without destroying the environment. A attempt at a rational environmental policy is one of the best things to come out of Washington in decades. But for any given project, whatever it's merits, those who oppose it (whether from political grounds of simply as a case of NIMBY) see their best prospects by contesting the environmental impact process. If they can drag out the process sufficiently, the whole project will either collapse, or can be contested because the original cost decisions are no longer valid. You can look around your local community and find examples. In Western Washington the most celebrated cases logging in National Forests (jobs vs. the spotted owl), building a Naval home port in Everett, the use of dolphins to guard the Trident Submarine base, and what to do with garbage (burn it, bury it of ship it to someone else's back yard). Note that I'm NOT complaining about objections to the environmental assessment because its shoddily done or isn't complete, but using the environmental process as the tool of choice because you don't like what is proposed. What saddens me is that either the environmental laws will be gutted to prevent obstructionism (egregious, not based on valid objections to the environmental assessment itself) or that no large scale, visionary project will be built in the U.S. again. Kennedy Space Center itself probably couldn't be built today. I just hope the next space port is built in a reasonable friendly country (e.g. Cape York) so Americans at least get access to it. Dean dfkling@cs.washington.edu ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 90 18:28:59 CDT From: mccall@skvax1.csc.ti.com To: eb1z+@andrew.cmu.edu Subject: Re: Manned Mission To Venus > eb1z+@andrew.cmu.edu" "Edward Joseph Bennett" > Fred McCall writes: > > >I fail to understand how anyone who is 20 could still be so grossly > >misinformed about what is reasonable/possible within the realm of > >the current technology. > > That is where you miss the point. I don't think anyone is planning on > starting any of these Terraforming projects,etc. tomorrow. In essence > the realm of current technology is irrelevant to the disscussion. No, that is where you miss the point. I was specifically referring to one 20-year-old individual's "I wanna go to Venus and I wanna go NOW" postings, not to the obviously speculative postings about terraforming which arose from it. ============================================================================== | Fred McCall (mccall@skvax1.ti.com) | "Insisting on perfect safety is for | | Advanced Systems Division | people who don't have the balls to | | Defense Systems & Electronics Group | live in the real world." | | Texas Instruments, Inc. | -- Mary Shafer | +-------------------------------------+--------------------------------------+ | I speak for me. I don't speak for others, and they don't speak for me. | ============================================================================== ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 90 15:41:09 GMT From: sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!emory!ogicse!plains!hennebry@ucsd.edu (Michael J. Hennebry) Subject: Re: HAWAII AND STAR WARS In article <1990May29.142633.15739@watdragon.waterloo.edu> jdnicoll@watyew.uwaterloo.ca (Brian or James) writes: >Tourist in space. "Anyone mind if I open both doors of this airlock? >I wanna photograph explosive decompression' *Whooosh*. His name is Twoflower. -- Mike hennebry@plains.NoDak.edu "You know, I've never killed a teacher before. I'm not sure any Qwarm has had occasion to kill a teacher. There isn't much call for it." -- Marquel ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 90 16:50:45 GMT From: zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!umich!ox.com!itivax!vax3.iti.org!aws@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Allen W. Sherzer) Subject: Re: One Small Step for a Space Activist Vol 1 No. 5 In article <14369@thorin.cs.unc.edu> leech@ornat.cs.unc.edu (Jonathan Leech) writes: >>The attendees also expressed the need for >>greater continuity in NASA goals and programs. Hopefully, this will help to >>get stable multi-year funding for some of these projects. > I keep hearing this idea. Which other, if any, federal programs >(a) have any sort of multi-year funding commitment and (b) have >actually received the money in the second year and beyond rather than >been reshuffled in the next frantic budget summit? It's not that unusual for DoD spending on big projects. It makes it a lot cheaper for everybody involved. I don't know of any cases where funding in a multi-year procurement has been cut due to budget pressures. >E.g., is there any >reason to expect a longterm commitment will be either made or kept? There is some chance. The administration is pushing the Space Exploration Initiative very hard. The space station would likely be under multi- year funding now if Congress was pleased with progress. Allen ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Allen W. Sherzer | Real men write self modifying code. | | aws@iti.org | | ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 90 16:17 EST From: Cheol Kim Subject: SPACE DIGEST Hello, please remove my name from this list "space". thank you. ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 90 18:34:58 GMT From: swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!IDA.ORG!pbs!pstinson@ucsd.edu Subject: Re: Doing something In article <1990May30.021509.8566@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > In article <3492@calvin.cs.mcgill.ca> msdos@calvin.cs.mcgill.ca (Mark SOKOLOWSKI) writes: >>>>(deleted) >>So why don't you guys do something about it???? It's a terrible loss!!!! > > Why don't *you* do something about it? You're the one who's excited about > Venus. I can think of plenty of things that should have higher priority, > like resuming the exploration of the Moon. > -- On the subject of taking action: a few weeks ago ABC News had a story about a student from GMU (that's George Mason University in Fairfax, Va., USA). While researching a term paper he accidentally learned that Apollo 204 still existed and was about to be dumped in a missile silo. [Sound familiar to us useneters? :-) ] The student did not think this was a fitting way for the Apollo 1 capsule to end up. He believed it should be enshrined in a museum somewhere and immediately contacted Congressmen, former astronauts and aerospace museum directors. As a result of his actions, ABC reported that NASA is reconsidering the whole idea for disposal of the remains. Several museums, including the Air and Space Museum in Washington and the Cosmosphere near Kansas City have expressed interest in acquiring Apollo 204. While the matter had not yet been completely settled, the student from GMU has set the wheels in motion because he DID do something. It is an example to be followed. ------------------------------ Date: 30 May 90 15:03:15 GMT From: shlump.nac.dec.com!renoir.dec.com!klaes@decwrl.dec.com Subject: Japan's first lunar probe falls silent. In the July 1990 issue of SKY & TELESCOPE magazine, there is a very brief article on page 14 stating that "Japan's HAGOROMO, a satellite that went into orbit around the Moon in March, was not completely successful. Its transmitter failed, making the probe untrackable." Does anyone have more details on this incident? Thank you. Larry Klaes klaes@wrksys.enet.dec.com or - ...!decwrl!wrksys.enet.dec.com!klaes or - klaes%wrksys.dec@decwrl.enet.dec.com or - klaes%wrksys.enet.dec.com@uunet.uu.net "The Universe, or nothing!" - H. G. Wells ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 30 May 90 13:14:00 EDT From: John Roberts Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are those of the sender and do not reflect NIST policy or agreement. Subject: Re: Hawaii and 'Star Wars' (long) >From: usc!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!bionet!arisia!cdp!jhanson@ucsd.edu >Subject: HAWAII AND STAR WARS >HAWAII TO BE SACRIFICED TO STAR WARS! >The State of Hawaii is proposing to construct a Star Wars Rocket >Launch Facility in the Ka'u District of Hawaii Island (southern end of >the Big Island). An Environmental Impact Statement is due to be >completed in the latter part of 1990. >SOLID ROCKET MOTOR EXHAUST HAZARDS >The State plans to use three different rockets at the proposed >rocket launch facility, all would use solid rocket motors (SRM). SRMs >release large amounts of both aluminum and hydrogen chloride (forms >hydrochloric acid) into the atmosphere. >A recent study, reported in the British medical journal "LANCET", >Jan. 14, 1989, found a direct relationship between aluminum in the water >supply and Alzheimer's disease. As others have pointed out, there are huge quantities of aluminum already in the environment. Furthermore, most people use aluminum cookware. The outer surface of aluminum which has been exposed to the air is aluminum oxide. >HYDROGEN CHLORIDE is a severe pulmonary and skin irritant. Bad news! Your digestive system already contains a strong concentration of hydrogen chloride. Also, since sodium chloride is an ionic compound, your island is surrounded by billions of tons of hydrogen chloride in the sea water. Granted, I wouldn't want to get a lungful of the gas in concentrated form, but do you really think they'll let anybody get close enough for that to happen? You left out two more potentially hazardous exhaust products: - HYDROGEN OXIDE (H2): When introduced into the lungs in sufficient quantities, this substance has been known to cause death by drowning. And a rocket launch will release it right into the air, which we breathe! - CARBON DIOXIDE (CO2): The same toxic gas released by animals and automobiles, it causes death even in fairly low concentrations. Even worse, it's a *greenhouse gas*, and will undoubtedly cause us to be cooked. >MAJOR FLUIDS AND GASES USED FOR LAUNCHING >DIMETHYLHYDRAZINE (UDMH) is corrosive to the eyes, skin and >respiratory system. Dimethylhydrazine is carcinogenic (causes cancer) >in mice following oral administration. Eighty-one percent of mice >subcutaneously injected Does the study say how much was injected, and how it was decided that this was the "right" amount? Is this one of thos cases like the rats being fed saccharin equivalent to several hundred cans of diet soda a day? >BERYLLIUM-POWERED STAR WARS ROCKETS >Star Wars payloads will include a new weapons system called Space >Based Interceptors (SBI). Morton Thiokol is building a solid-fueled >first stage, which uses beryllium hydride fuel, to be used for SBIs. >Beryllium replaces the aluminum in the fuel, reducing fuel weight by >about 45%. I'd be more concerned about beryllium than these other substances, since it's well known as an extremely potent enzyme poison, and it doesn't "break down". Are you absolutely sure that they intend to fire these in the atmosphere in peacetime? >ENDANGERED SPECIES >SEA TURTLES - Sandy beaches in the vicinity of the site are... >MAMMALS - Endangered mammals include the Hawaiian Bat or... >ENDANGERED BIRDS - The Hoonoua wetland is located near the... >WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP: >Contact you congressional representatives and ask them to >cut funding for Star Wars. Or better yet, MOVE OFF OF HAWAII. If the island had a large, active, fully staffed spaceport, and *nobody else*, the native animals and plants would probably be a lot better off than they are now. (Many :-)'s ) Or else, push for legislation to outlaw active volcanoes. Seriously, this looks more like the alar panic than an honest attempt to scientifically assess the risks. Sure, substances will be or could be released which are potentially harmful. The same is true of any natural or human activity. Your analysis ignores details such as allowable exposure levels and expected concentrations, which are necessary for any sensible evaluation. What is needed is an honest effort to make the best possible estimate of the level of risk, and the expected effects upon humans and other living things. That's what the Environmental Impact Statement is for! The current law probably reads something like 'projects of this type shall not be attempted if there is deemed to be sufficient risk of significant environmental damage, as determined by careful scientific analysis'. Your proposal would be the equivalent of changing this law to read 'as determined by careful scientific analysis or by blind irrational panic'. Risk analysis is a topic of great concern these days, but it's also a very complex and technical field of study. A large segment of the population seems to feel that it can be quickly learned on any street corner, or that common sense without specialized knowledge is sufficient to resolve any technical issue. >Jay Hanson 808-322-7268 >78-6622 Alii Drive, >Kailua-Kona, HI 96740 John Roberts roberts@cmr.ncsl.nist.gov ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V11 #468 *******************