Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from corsica.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Mon, 31 Jul 89 03:17:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Mon, 31 Jul 89 03:17:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #571 SPACE Digest Volume 9 : Issue 571 Today's Topics: Re: Apollo Ascent Modules Re: Station alternatives, What do WE have to do with it Stuff left on Moon (was Re: S-Band Beacon on Moon) latest Quayle gaffe Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners) Re: (afterburners) T-38 show rooms.... Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners) Re: S-Band Beacon on Moon Re: Space Quest Foundation NSS Hotline Update for Space Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners) Re: Possible evidence for life on Mars. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 19 Jul 89 11:31:57 GMT From: mcvax!ukc!etive!bob@uunet.uu.net (Bob Gray) Subject: Re: Apollo Ascent Modules In article <8985@chinet.chi.il.us> john@chinet.chi.il.us (John Mundt) writes: >Later flights had the ascent modules purposely were impacted into the surface of >the moon to test seismic recording devices with a known force. When the first On the later flights the third stage of the Saturn V was used for the same purpose after the LM had been unpacked. It made a much bigger bang :-> Bob. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 89 08:00:08 GMT From: agate!shelby!portia!hanauma!joe@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Joe Dellinger) Subject: Re: Station alternatives, What do WE have to do with it In article <26381@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> web@garnet.berkeley.edu (William Baxter) writes: > >My congressman is Ron Dellums. He is a cosponsor of the Space >Transportation Services Purchase Act (Formerly the Launch Services >Purchase Act). Who is your congressman? When did you last visit his >office? Have you asked him to support the STSPA? > OK! I feel guilty now! Could somebody post again the exact name and numbers of this bill, a short description, and the generic format of addresses for the House and Senate? \ /\ /\ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\.-.-.-.-.......___________ \ / \ / \ /Dept of Geophysics, Stanford University \/\/\.-.-....___ \/ \/ \/Joe Dellinger joe@hanauma.stanford.edu apple!hanauma!joe\/\.-._ ------------------------------ Date: 19 Jul 89 09:42:23 GMT From: mcvax!ukc!icdoc!syma!andy@uunet.uu.net (Andy Clews) Subject: Stuff left on Moon (was Re: S-Band Beacon on Moon) From article <138@nwnexus.WA.COM>, by edm@nwnexus.WA.COM (Ed Morin): > I believe that a fancy mirror was also left for laser experiements not > to mention all the other junk that's still up there like the cameras, > flags, moon rover, etc. Not forgetting a golf club and a few balls, a hammer and a feather, and probably some other interesting stuff too. Gosh, just think, hundreds of years hence, lunar archaeologists might find that stuff and wondered what must have gone on up there. The feather may cause particular consternation :-) Or am I wrong? did the Apollo crews bring the hammer, feather, golf clubs etc back to earth? -- Andy Clews, Computing Service, Univ. of Sussex, Brighton BN1 9QN, ENGLAND JANET: andy@syma.sussex.ac.uk BITNET: andy%syma.sussex.ac.uk@uk.ac Voice: +44 273 606755 ext.2129 ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 89 17:07:30 GMT From: bfmny0!tneff@uunet.uu.net (Tom Neff) Subject: latest Quayle gaffe By the way this is only barely sci.space, but I assume folks have heard about Danno's latest. In a speech commemorating Apollo 11 the other day, he proudly recalled the "historic moonwalk of Neil Armstrong and Buz Lukens." Lukens is a name he should know - a veteran Congressman from Quayle's neighbor state of Ohio, he was recently indicted (convicted? fuzzy there) for child molesting and has left his seat. According to press reports, Quayle appeared puzzled at the laughter his remark drew from the audience, but made no corrections or interruptions in his prepared text. You gotta love this guy. -- "My God, Thiokol, when do you \\ Tom Neff want me to launch -- next April?" \\ uunet!bfmny0!tneff ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 89 18:40:51 GMT From: mailrus!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@purdue.edu (Henry Spencer) Subject: Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners) In article <8907201027.AA07833@osteocyber.ortho.hmc.psu.edu> dsc@OSTEOCYBER.ORTHO.HMC.PSU.EDU (david s. channin) writes: > ... What are the laws, regulations, etc (if any) that prevent you from > doing the following: > 1. Walk into the Northrop offices in wherever. > 2. Pull out a bank check for x million dollars. > 3. Say,``I'd would like that nice T-38 that's in the showroom''. > 4. Fly away with same after filling the tank... > > Why wouldn't this scenario work?? (or would it?). The answer to item 3 will be "sorry, that is a USAF aircraft that is not for sale to civilians without government approval". This is partly because the USAF paid for development and "owns the rights" to some degree, and partly because practically all of the military-aircraft manufacturers are utterly dependent on US government business and are desperately anxious not to annoy their big customer. And the US government feels that private citizens should not be allowed to own jet fighters. -- $10 million equals 18 PM | Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology (Pentagon-Minutes). -Tom Neff | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry henry@zoo.toronto.edu ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 89 21:10:47 GMT From: eugene@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Eugene Miya) Subject: Re: (afterburners) T-38 show rooms.... You mean to tell me with all the what-if hot air generated, not one person tried to get on the phone and call up Northrup and inquire about said no longer manufactured aircraft? Indicative of the net laziness? 8) You'd rather post a what-if? than an "I tried...?" What happened to that reader who really wrote G. Yeager and posted the response, he deserves more credit. Ach! Mary you are wasting your time. Let's turn these guys satellites off: weather, comm, remote sensing...... Another gross generalization from --eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers: "You trust the `reply' command with all those different mailers out there?" "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology." {ncar,decwrl,hplabs,uunet}!ames!eugene Live free or die. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 89 01:28:38 GMT From: lll-crg.llnl.gov@lll-winken.llnl.gov (Berry Kercheval) Subject: Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners) In article <33335@apple.Apple.COM>, stadler@Apple (Andy Stadler) writes: >I used to consider that a stereotype until about the 3rd time a Bonanza >tried to run me down.... Why is it always Bonanzas making straight in's >at uncontrolled airports? I've noticed that too. I have seen the following happen: Bonanza nearly clips the 152 I'm in AFTER we're cleared to land, and lands ahead of us. He got a license suspension for that... Bonanza goes out Altamont pass (about 900 ft??) VFR when the ceiling was 1100. Bonanza comes to LVK and can't find the airport even though he claims to see the "gravel pits" less than 2 nm SW. Controller has to give him a vector. Bonanza lands gear up at Harris Ranch on 4 July this year (well, I saw the aftermath) Now I have nothing against Bonanzas as aircraft, and I am sure that most Bonanza owners are fine, safe, concientious pilots (Hi, pHIL!), but something seems to attract bozos. Alene calls this the "Cadillac driiver" phenomemon, as she has noticed that a disproportionate number of Cadillacs seem to be driven by jerks. Oddly, though, I was talking to one of the LVK controllers once and he said that the worst things he saw when at SFO were inevitably PanAm planes or Mooneys. He theorized that PanAm captains came in, drove over to PAO and took off in their Mooney... --berry (If you are with PanAm or fly a Mooney or Bonanza, I don't mean to offend you. THese are general observations and not all mine even. Specific people are different; probably MOST Bonanzas, Mooneys and Clippers are fine! It's the few bad apples...) ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 89 09:46:54 GMT From: shelby!portia!hanauma!joe@decwrl.dec.com (Joe Dellinger) Subject: Re: S-Band Beacon on Moon In article <1989Jul20.155847.15452@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: >No, but it was costing some small amount of money to receive, store, and >analyze the data. Here's a question I've always wanted to ask: why even bother to shut the things off? Just ignore them, and if they're still working a few years later when you change your mind, so much the better. If they had shut off the deep space network, would they have given a command to the Voyagers and pioneers "make no further broadcasts, accept no further instructions from Earth"? \ /\ /\ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\.-.-.-.-.......___________ \ / \ / \ /Dept of Geophysics, Stanford University \/\/\.-.-....___ \/ \/ \/Joe Dellinger joe@hanauma.stanford.edu apple!hanauma!joe\/\.-._ ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 89 18:14:05 GMT From: eugene@eos.arc.nasa.gov (Eugene Miya) Subject: Re: Space Quest Foundation I have no qualms about this. I only want to point out one thing. We the people, mostly of the US, if you are supposedily so intelligent and so great (so occasionally foolhardy young in this world) have to establish and balance some long term goals. Yes yes short-term survival... But you may have read history books about the early exploration and colonization of the "New World." You should visit Canada and stop by the Hudson's Bay Company (the pred. to Macy's etc.). Who will the HBC's of the future. Will he have HBC-like companies? Will they be better and wiser? Space is a harsh place, more so than your short experience on earth can tell you. Space is BIG, really big! 8) What can you say but gross generalizations? --eugene miya, NASA Ames Research Center, eugene@aurora.arc.nasa.gov resident cynic at the Rock of Ages Home for Retired Hackers: "You trust the `reply' command with all those different mailers out there?" "If my mail does not reach you, please accept my apology." {ncar,decwrl,hplabs,uunet}!ames!eugene Live free or die. ------------------------------ From: ota Date: Thu, 20 Jul 89 12:26:50 -0700 Subject: NSS Hotline Update for Space /* Written 12:09 pm Jul 20, 1989 by jordankatz in cdp:sci.space */ /* ---------- "NSS Hotline Update for Space" ---------- */ This is the National Space Society's Space Hotline, update - Space Day, July 20, 1989. At 10 am this morning President George Bush on the steps of the National Air and Space Museum commemorated the 20th anniversary of the Apollo 11 mission which landed the first men on the Moon. He went on to stress the need to look forward, and that in the 21st century peoples of all nations will leave the Earth for voyages of discovery and exploration. He stated that now is the time to commit ourselves to a sustained program of human exploration of the solar system and the permanent settlement of space. "Our goal is to establish the US as the preeminent space fairing nation, from the voyages of Columbus to the triumph of the Moon itself...." He implied that space exploration is a worth-while venture from an economic stand point by stating the Apollo program paid down to Earth dividends, and the human exploration of the Moon would have been a bargain at twice the price. "Apollo is the best return on investment since Leonardo DiVinci bought his first sketch pad." In his speech, he announced his long range vision as the completion of the Space Station Freedom in the 1990s, a permanent return to the Moon at the turn of the century, and then the human exploration of Mars. Each mission will succesively build upon the next. He added that the future of the space program lies within the hands of Congress and ultimately in the hands of the public. It is President Bush's intention that the 30th anniversary of Apollo 11 should be celebrated not in Washington, DC, but on the fully operational Space Station Freedom. He went on to add that the space station will serve as a bridge to the solar system and our own fragile Earth. "International initatives are need to seek new solutions to global environmental problems, and Mission to Planet Earth is an important initiative in our national space program. The Space Station Freedom is the necessary next step for sustatined human exploration." The President charged his "right hand man" Vice President Dan Quayle and his National Space Council to work out the specific time frame, milestones and resources needed to return to the Moon permanently and go on to explore Mars. He closed his speech by saying the dream of reaching new stars and exploring new worlds will be realized not in his generation or even his childrens generation, but we must begin with this generation. "We can't make the next great leap for mankind tomorrow unless we take the single step today." The NSS mourns the death of a valued and visionary member of the Board of Directors, George A. Koopman, president and co-founder of the American Rocket Company. Mr. Koopman died Wednesday of injuries sustained in an automobile accident. He was forty-four years old. AMROC officials affirmed that preparations for the company's first space launch, scheduled for August 14, 1989, will continue as planned. James Bennett, AMROC's vp for External Affairs, said "This represents an enormous loss to AMROC. Koopman was a true space pioneer, not only by virtue of his key role in founding and sustaining AMROC, but also his long support of and participation in organizations such as the National Space Society. The realization of George Koopman's dream of creating affordable access to space will be his memorial." Koopman's family has requested that in lieu of flowers, contributions to one of several charitable organizations be made. NSS has been selected and will set up a trust fund in his name to continue the visionary goals he pioneered. Contributions will be excepted by the NSS to the George A. Koopman Memorial Fund. This has been the National Space Society's Space Hotline updated SpaceDay, July 20th, 1989. ------------------------------ Date: 20 Jul 89 20:55:38 GMT From: concertina!fiddler@sun.com (Steve Hix) Subject: Re: Don't Mess with NASA (afterburners) In article <1989Jul20.184051.19979@utzoo.uucp>, henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: > In article <8907201027.AA07833@osteocyber.ortho.hmc.psu.edu> dsc@OSTEOCYBER.ORTHO.HMC.PSU.EDU (david s. channin) writes: > > ... What are the laws, regulations, etc (if any) that prevent you from > > doing the following: > > 1. Walk into the Northrop offices in wherever. > > 2. Pull out a bank check for x million dollars. > > 3. Say,``I'd would like that nice T-38 that's in the showroom''. > > 4. Fly away with same after filling the tank... > > > > Why wouldn't this scenario work?? (or would it?). > > The answer to item 3 will be "sorry, that is a USAF aircraft that is not > for sale to civilians without government approval". This is partly > [... And the US > government feels that private citizens should not be allowed to own jet > fighters. But, Henry! The T-38 *isn't* a fighter...though I suppose you could add an external gun pod after you got it home. :} You're probably right anyway. Darn. ------------------------------ Date: 21 Jul 89 13:33:42 GMT From: cica!ctrsol!emory!phssra@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (Scott R. Anderson) Subject: Re: Possible evidence for life on Mars. In article <7037@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu> TJL@ceres.physics.uiowa.edu writes: >In article <8907201621.AA00301@decwrl.dec.com>, klaes@wrksys.dec.com >(CUP/ASG, MLO5-2/G1 6A, 223-3283) writes: >> >> The possibility that life could have evolved on Mars, and perhaps >> exists there now, has been given a boost by the discovery of large >> amounts of organic material, the basis of all known life forms, in a >> meteorite believed to have come from the red planet. >> >My question is that all of the pictures from Mars have been of river channels, >river channels which apparently handled immense quantities of water. How >would this environment (i.e. the river) compare with the ocean? If the water >was flowing fast enough to carve these channels, would there also be areas >where the water would be stagnant for a long enough period of time for >proteins and the like to form? The origin of these channels is believed to be due to the sudden melting of large quantities of subterranean ice and/or permafrost, which are then forced through the surface to produce a gigantic flash flood. However, the air pressure on Mars is so low that the water will quickly evaporate away, so there is little chance that these floods could provide "stagnant" pools of water. Speculation: subterranean chambers deep enough in the interior of Mars that liquid water could exist, and be warm and stagnant. Volcanic activity occasionally spits out a rock or two which then find their way to Antartica... millions of years ago, of course. * * ** Scott Robert Anderson gatech!emoryu1!phssra * * * ** phssra@unix.cc.emory.edu phssra@emoryu1.bitnet * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V9 #571 *******************