Return-path: X-Andrew-Authenticated-as: 7997;andrew.cmu.edu;Ted Anderson Received: from holmes.andrew.cmu.edu via trymail for +dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl@andrew.cmu.edu (->+dist+/afs/andrew.cmu.edu/usr1/ota/space/space.dl) (->ota+space.digests) ID ; Thu, 20 Apr 89 05:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: Reply-To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU From: space-request+@Andrew.CMU.EDU To: space+@Andrew.CMU.EDU Date: Thu, 20 Apr 89 05:16:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #383 SPACE Digest Volume 9 : Issue 383 Today's Topics: Re: Assaying likely asteroids from afar Re: Possible Life on Venus: A Question The Stirling Engine (was Re: Success with cold fusion...) Re: U.S. vs Soviets Re: Space Shuttle Attacked by 200-foot UFO! Re: Soviet shutdown of manned space program Any other ISU students out there? Re:US citizen - ET contact legal penalties Proposed lunar simulation facility Re: Rail-Guns and Asteroids Re: URGENT -- SPACE STATION FUNDING VOTE ON TUESDAY!! Re: URGENT -- SPACE STATION FUNDING VOTE ON TUESDAY!! Re: Space Shuttle Attacked by 200-foot UFO! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 18 Apr 89 15:10:49 GMT From: pitt!cisunx!jcbst3@cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu (James C. Benz) Subject: Re: Assaying likely asteroids from afar In article <3085@i.cc.purdue.edu> f3w@i.cc.purdue.edu (Mark Gellis) writes: >Plus, if we simply fired this thing at the asteroid and got our information, >and no one was hurt because it had, in fact, been used as a scientific >instrument and not a weapon (that is, we present the Soviets with a fait >accompli) what are they going to do about it? Complain to the UN? They'll >look stupid and they know it. Fire their own lasers at other asteroids >to prevent an "asteroid gap"? Good! More data will come in and we will >all know more about the asteroids. Use it as an excuse to build their Or maybe they might go to Red Alert and launch on warning. That would really generate some data, and maybe even turn the Earth into an asteroid we could all study at liesure. Assuming of course that anyone's left to benefit from the knowledge. -- Jim Benz jcbst3@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu If a modem University of Pittsburgh answers, UCIR (412) 648-5930 hang up! ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 89 14:52:52 GMT From: pitt!cisunx!jcbst3@cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu (James C. Benz) Subject: Re: Possible Life on Venus: A Question In article jd3l+@andrew.cmu.edu (Jean-Marc Debaud) writes: > >There is a question that has been distrubing me lately, > >We discover not a long ago living "parasites" that are >very close to paramecia organism very deep in the >Atlantique Ocean. What is surprising is the capacity of >those organism to live and reproduce in very hot water >located near permanent volcanic activities. >According to common knowledge (I am a logician not >a biologist) I thougth that proteins as well as DNA chains >could not be replicated and therefore not formed under high >temperature. >Or am I missing anything here ? Maybe so. I assume you are referring to clam-tubeworm-crab ecosystems found near rift vents on the ocean floor. My understanding (just a layman, not a marine biologist) is that these creatures live in zones of *higher than the surrounding water* temperature, not actually zones of very high temperature, but warmer than the temperature of deep-ocean water which is very cold. The zone of truly high temperature around such vents must be either very small, since water would transport heat away from them rapidly, or the water would just boil at that point and steam bubbles would be apparent at the surface. Of course, huge steam bubbles rising from the ocean surface would have led to the discovery of such sites a long time ago and would not have waited till the 1980s. And even around such hot sites, there would be zones of decreasing temp including some quite comfortable zones for life. -- Jim Benz jcbst3@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu If a modem University of Pittsburgh answers, UCIR (412) 648-5930 hang up! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 89 10:11 EDT From: John Taylor Subject: The Stirling Engine (was Re: Success with cold fusion...) >Date: 14 Apr 89 18:33:06 GMT >From: psivax!quad1!ttidca!hollombe@uunet.uu.net (The Polymath) >Subject: Re: Success with cold fusion reported >In article <6316@homxc.UUCP> gfv@homxc.UUCP (G.VALVO) writes: >}The fusion reaction itself is only the first step to electric power. >}How would the electricty be generated, boilers? steam turbines? direct >}conversion? ... > >Stirling cycle engines may be best for back yard use. Turbines aren't >efficient at low and intermittent power levels. The "Buffalo News" ran a story about the Stirling a couple of days ago; of course, the object wasn't to explain the Stirling, but to defame it and then use it to beat Sen. Alfonse D'amato over the head with (he initiated substantial funding for Stirling R&D). The whole premise of the story was the uselessness of the Stirling and what a waste of taxpayer money it is. Anyone have any comments? Would someone explain the operating principle(s)? ------------- John Taylor -- SUNY at Buffalo Bitnet : v131q5cg@ubvmsc Internet: v131q5cg@ubvmsc.cc.buffalo.edu ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 89 15:31:27 GMT From: dogie!indri!aplcen!aplcomm!stdb.jhuapl.edu!jwm@csd4.milw.wisc.edu (Jim Meritt) Subject: Re: U.S. vs Soviets In article <1989Apr17.163744.709@utzoo.uucp> henry@utzoo.uucp (Henry Spencer) writes: }In article <476@hydra.gatech.EDU> ccoprmd@prism.gatech.EDU (Matthew DeLuca) writes: }>> (yes, last I heard Freedom's internal volume will be less than that of }>> Skylab)... }>... the latest design for the station: two 40-foot }>U.S. modules (1 hab, 1 lab), 1 40-foot ESA module (lab), and 1 20-foot }>Japanese module (lab)... }> This seems to be a bit more voluminous than a gutted Saturn V third }>stage... } }Look at the numbers, not at the appearance. Even the third stage of a }Saturn V was *big*. } }I admit that I haven't checked the numbers myself lately, mind you. } }>... Incidentally, you avoided my question: you were going on about }>the probable superiority of Novy Mir...again, what greater capabilities will }>it have? } }The fast answer is: probably, more of everything. It is also likely to }have some practical advantages, like using proven hardware, as opposed to }(for example) Freedom's insane 20kHz power system that nobody knows how }to build yet. You missed a rather major point: Mir (and add ons) will have significantly more altitude than the Skylab(s) do. One is scattered over Australia, another is in the Air and Space Museum. Mir is above the ground, and will probably stay there for quite a while longer. I count the absence of sea-level pressure on the hull as a significant advantage. Disclaimer: "It's mine! All mine!!!" - D. Duck ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 89 17:38:02 GMT From: lindy!kevin@labrea.stanford.edu (Kevin J. Burnett) Subject: Re: Space Shuttle Attacked by 200-foot UFO! Isn't The Star the same one who had Yuri Geller up in a balloon sending out psychic beams to people who were supposed to draw the item on which he was concentrating? Also hasn't it featured Sam Fox's two greatest assets? I suppose that compared to the Weekly World News, the Star may be considered 'respected'. :-) :-) :-) -- Kevin Burnett, KC6AOA AMPR.ORG: 44.4.0.231 "She was an acrobat's daughter, she swung by her teeth from a noose; but then one day, her dentures gate way, and she flew through the air like a goose." - Daffy ------------------------------ Date: 17 Apr 89 20:42:21 GMT From: oliveb!pyramid!prls!philabs!briar.philips.com!rfc@apple.com (Robert Casey;6282;3.57;$0201) Subject: Re: Soviet shutdown of manned space program In article <7940@pyr.gatech.EDU> ccoprmd@pyr.gatech.EDU (Matthew T. DeLuca) writes: > I don't think the Soviets are going to repeat the mistake we made with >Apollo, that is, if they go somewhere, they're going to go to stay. A more >likely scenario, in my opinion, is a Soviet lunar mission, to gain the >experience with manned planetary exploration needed for Mars, at a much >closer locale. Besides, it would cost less. > >-- We should go back to the Moon so we can refresh our experience with such missions. It's getting to be 20 years ago that we did Apollo, and soon we will "forget" how to do it. We could spend longer periods of time exploring, etc this time. But can we afford to pay for it? ------------------------------ Date: 19 Apr 89 00:36:54 GMT From: a.gp.cs.cmu.edu!mwm@pt.cs.cmu.edu (Mark Maimone) Subject: Any other ISU students out there? I'd like to get in touch with people who attended ISU'88 at MIT, or will attend ISU'89 in Strasbourg, France. If funding comes through, I hope to attend this year's program in the physical sciences dept. Let's talk before July! For the uninitiated: the International Space University runs a two-month summer program for graduate students, designed to educate them in the physical, engineering, economic and political realities of working in space. Last year 105 grad students from 20 countries attended the program at MIT, and worked with 60 space professionals to design a lunar colony for 10-15 people (the results will be presented at the SSI conference in Princeton this May). I think this year's design projects will be a lunar probe and a variable gravity research facility. I'd like to hear more about the program from people who've participated (or will participate) in it. Please send e-mail to: Arpa: mwm@cs.cmu.edu Uucp: cmcspt!mwm@cs.cmu.edu ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Maimone phone:(412) 268 - 7698 CMU Computer Science email:mwm@cs.cmu.edu Grad Student, vocal jazz and P.D.Q. Bach enthusiast -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark Maimone phone:(412) 268 - 7698 CMU Computer Science email:mwm@cs.cmu.edu 2nd year Grad Student and pro. jazz singer (well, I DID get paid; twice!) -- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 89 13:26:49 BST From: ZZASSGL@CMS.MANCHESTER-COMPUTING-CENTRE.AC.UK Myname: Geoff. Lane. (Phone UK-061 275 6051) Subject: Re:US citizen - ET contact legal penalties >"Dr. Brian T. Clifford (Pentagon) announced 10-5-82 that cases of >citizen-extraterrestrial contact were illegal under Title 14, >Section 1211 of the Code of Federal Regulations (and adopted >7-16-69, a few days before the first moon landing). The Code >specifies up to a year in jail and a 5000 dollar fine. The NASA >authorities can examine you to determine if you have been "ET >exposed", and can impose an indefinite quarantine which cannot be >broken, even by court order." >Michael Sloan MacLeod (amdahl!drivax!macleod) Then why have we not seen NASA leaping into action to investigate all these "I was captured by Aliens who stole my Genes!" stories that keep getting published?????? Geoff. Lane. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Apr 89 13:46:47 EDT From: John Roberts Formerly: National Bureau of Standards Sub-Organization: National Computer and Telecommunications Laboratory Disclaimer: Opinions expressed are those of the sender and do not reflect NIST policy or agreement. Subject: Proposed lunar simulation facility >From: jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!utzoo!henry@rutgers.edu (Henry Spencer) >Subject: space news from Feb 27 AW&ST ... >Los Alamos proposes to build a lunar-surface simulation facility for >testing lunar mining and construction hardware. They would like a >small amount of NASA funding for it; so far, no response from NASA. >Los Alamos says that paper studies of lunar base operations, notably >oxygen production, are beginning to peter out for lack of experimental >results. Is that a computer simulation testbed, or an actual physical construction to emulate the lunar terrain? John Roberts roberts@cmr.icst.nbs.gov ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 89 15:40:49 GMT From: pitt!cisunx!jcbst3@cadre.dsl.pittsburgh.edu (James C. Benz) Subject: Re: Rail-Guns and Asteroids In article <8904122007.AA10396@crash.cs.umass.edu> ELIOT@cs.umass.edu writes: > > Would it be reasonable to use Rail-Guns in mining an asteroid. > I am thinking that a large pellet of metal could be fired from an > asteroid based mining unit back to earth or the moon. The pellet > could either be tracked and caught when it gets near the earth, > or it could be fired so it hits the moon, and then retrieved from > Could this scheme be used in reverse? Could water, food, fuel and > other supplies be sent to mars or an asteroid mining site using > rail guns? Ahah, something I've thought about for years! Why not send a rail gun to an asteroid and use it for propulsion of the asteroid, and bring it back to earth orbit whole, or relatively so? Surely accelerating chunks of rock to high velocities would impart some Gs to the asteroid the gun is mounted on. Shoot the rocks out into interstellar space and bring back the whole asteroid. No catcher, no crew needed, no Lunar Environmental Impact (giggle) statement. And a nice well-behaved earth-satellite consisting of many tons of useable ore. I seem to remember reading this in some early NASA fluff back in the '60s when I was a mere tad. -- Jim Benz jcbst3@unix.cis.pittsburgh.edu If a modem University of Pittsburgh answers, UCIR (412) 648-5930 hang up! ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 89 13:53:15 GMT From: umigw!steve@handies.ucar.edu (steve emmerson) Subject: Re: URGENT -- SPACE STATION FUNDING VOTE ON TUESDAY!! There are some of us out here who support the exploration and utilization of space and yet who also believe that the development of the proposed space station is an inefficient (and hence inappropriate) expenditure of scarce resources. Just a reminder ;-). -- Steve Emmerson Inet: steve@umigw.miami.edu [128.116.10.1] SPAN: miami::emmerson (host 3074::) emmerson%miami.span@star.stanford.edu UUCP: ...!ncar!umigw!steve emmerson%miami.span@vlsi.jpl.nasa.gov "Computers are like God in the Old Testament: lots of rules and no mercy" ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 89 23:31:12 GMT From: rochester!yamauchi@cu-arpa.cs.cornell.edu (Brian Yamauchi) Subject: Re: URGENT -- SPACE STATION FUNDING VOTE ON TUESDAY!! In article <23268@agate.BERKELEY.EDU> web@garnet.berkeley.edu (William Baxter) writes: >In article <7967@pucc.Princeton.EDU>, EWTILENI@pucc (Eric William Tilenius) writes: >>The National Space Society has initiated a phone tree alert > >>Say that you urge the Congressman to "SUPPORT FULL FUNDING FOR THE >>SPACE STATION." -------------------- >>------------- > >In discussing the budget priorities for NASA in FY 1989, the HUD >Independant Agencies Committee Chairman, Mr. Boland, pointed out that >full funding of the Space Station and protection of the Space Shuttle >program from cuts would require elimination of every other increase over >FY 1988. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What does "would require" mean -- that Boland isn't willing to increase funding for the entire space program, just shuffle around space funds internally? If it's possible to divert funds away from NASA to VA, it should also be possible to shift funds to NASA from other programs. Of course, whether it's politically likely is another story... _______________________________________________________________________________ Brian Yamauchi University of Rochester yamauchi@cs.rochester.edu Computer Science Department _______________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: 18 Apr 89 18:16:17 GMT From: rochester!rocksanne!bozo!kirby@cu-arpa.cs.cornell.edu (Mike Kirby (co-op)) Subject: Re: Space Shuttle Attacked by 200-foot UFO! >Editors: I am 14 years old and have never been to America, but I can see >your country must be a truly exciting place to live. My dad went to New >York for business and brought me a Weekly World News so I could read >about life in America. I have read the stories over and over. The >people there do such wonderful things, and I know it is a fascinating >place to be. > >The newspapers here don't tell us about things like space ships and space >aliens and reincarnation. I'm going to save all my money and come to America, >where life must be great fun. No wonder the rest of the world holds us in such low opinion.... I wonder if that reporter has access to the net? Michael Kirby mpk9172@ritvax.bitnet Works mpk9172%ritcv@cs.rit.edu Works on a good day kirby.wbst128@xerox.com Never tried it. ------------------------------ End of SPACE Digest V9 #383 *******************