旼컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴커 � ISSUE 006 - BOULDER NEWS FRENZY - ISSUE 006 � 냐컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴캐 � Released on October 8th, 1997 � 냐컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴컴캐 � The publishers of this newsletter take no responsibility for the use of � � any information printed and do not encourage others to bother the BNF. � � This is intended to document the events on the BNF only, nothing more. � 읕컴컴컴컴컴http://www.bouldernews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?Ramsey컴컴컴컴컴컴컴� And in the beginning there was the forum, and it was good. People spoke, one with the other, and many kind and polite posts were exchanged, and it was good. And then a flamer rose up from the bowels of the forum, and caused many of the people to frown, and post among themselves about what to do. And lo, as the people discussed the problem, the flamer begat other flamers, and those flamers begat other flamers, and there was much flaming throughout the forum land. And surely, the regular forum posters began much weeping, and gnashing of teeth, and cried out in their misery: "Boulder News! Why hast thou forsaken us!" And Boulder News did nothing to slay the flamer beast. And so it went until all throughout the threads there was a wailing sound as forum regulars entered 12-step programs to cure their addiction, and in the quiet that followed there rose up a new generation of posters on the forum, and these posters did not have the interest of the slain young child at heart, but rather the interest of creating trouble....for lo, their I.Q.'s were low. And in the blighted landscape of the war-torn remains of the forum, there remained the ghosts of the brilliant, beautiful and graceful Fra; the gracious and kind Texas1; the eccentric and impulsive ReAdER; the logical and even-tempered Vincent; the efficient and good-hearted Mrs. Brady; the wonderful and witty Jay; the Anal-retentive and offensive Rosalie/Ravana; the hostess with the mostest Georgia Peach; and so many, many others. And they looked upon the ruins and said "Damn. That was great while it lasted." And they never knew who Marcie's famous partner was. -Marcie Texas -------------------------------------------------------- Evolution of the Forum Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Do tell E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 So who was Marcie's famous partner? I didn't even know she had a famous partner and I've been coming to this forum for many moons. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: !!! E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 No one cares, Marcie is a stinking dyke. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: To Marcie E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Eat shit. We KNOW who you claim your famous 'friend' is...but, so what? A dyke is a dyke is a dyke, and has nothing to do with the JonBenet case. Tell her to go sing her tune to people to give a damn. By the way...don't let the new hats fool you, most of the posters (including myself) have been around here since last January, and we are still very interested in the JonBenet case..don't give a damn about your famous 'friend' however, OR any of your infamous friends either. UNLESS, of course, she is somehow involved in this case. LOL -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Incognito E-mail: Location: Joshua-7 Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 I must apologize for all these Joshua-7 links. There is nothing we can do (that we know of) that will stop these messages from posting...sorry. [In order to create confusion, the spam post subjects now read the URL of the Joshua forum. This made some people think that it was actually the Joshua forum spamming BNF in order to get more web traffic.] -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Yo Marcie E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Take your dyke warbler and go play somewhere else. Your disgusting and so is she. Yuk. signed...Clean tongue. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Ruthie E-mail: Pacific 9:00 am Location: Pacific Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 J-7 links don't bother me...I don't read them. If I want to know what is said on that thread, I will go there. I'm doing my best to follow active threads on this forum and will continue to do so. I don't know who is posting here now with serious thought and opinion...but I'll read it. I miss responding to a name (whatever it is) that has some continunity...I pray for time posts in the headings so I can find my way around a little better. Doesn't happen...so I'll do the best I can. I have a post regarding the JBR case on the Sunday thread below..This is the JBR forum, isn't it? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Harry E-mail: Location: Colo Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 I'm anxiously awaiting Fra's narrative describing an encounter with Bill Clinton at the Martha Vinyard Post Office or, perhaps at the nude beach - maybe that would be a more appropriate place to find Clinton. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Marcie E-mail: Location: Texas Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Ahhhh....you prove my point beautifully. Posts filled with hatred, insults, homophobia.... that's not a good place to be, and I am sorry for you who have such sad lives. I don't choose to stay here and let your insults hit me where it hurts. Those who get flamed on here have usually tried the old "I don't let it bother me" strategy, but we all know that no matter how old & mature & grown-up we get, a hurt is a hurt. I felt so very sorry for Kwan-Yin (?) when insults were hitting her...and many others. Those pathetic souls whose own lives are so filled with disappointments and rotten feelings that they have a need to punch others in the stomach while hidding behind their computers are the bane of this forum. I guess it's the perfect way for the angry people to tell the world to "get fucked" without being detected. Oh, and by the way....my partner is not a singer. While there has been some speculation, the public does not know my partner is gay. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Lurker E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Ok, I'll bite. Marcie, is your partner Ann Richards, former gov. of Texas? Just wondering since I'd heard some of those sort of rumors about her. Don't let the assholes get you down, Marcie. You have always had many friends and fans here. Please stay with us. We need your wit and friendly spirit. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Tara E-mail: Location: Seattle Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Comeon, Marcie. Don't quit. We don't need less of you and more of THEM. Hang in here! I'm a real, live, dyke too. I'm not a closeted as you, but then I don't live in a place where I have to be. Man, I couldn't make it where you are. I've heard Ann Richards is "family", so is she your S.O.? Ok, never mind, because I'm sure you wouldn't out her on the net. Justice for All. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Yo Marcie E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Last time you pulled the famous friend routine, she was a singer. What's she this time? LOL It's alright being gay, but then, who gives a damn what you are? Or your 'friend'. This is not the Gay Activist Forum, and so what in the Hell does your sex life have to do with JonBenet? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: *-* E-mail: Location: *+* Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Good to see you, Marcie. Your "Evolution of the Forum" is hilarious. Glad you shared it with us. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Tara E-mail: Location: Seattle Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Hey, Buttmunch, you want to know what Marcie's lifestyle has to do with the JonBenet murder? In case you hadn't noticed, there don't seem to be just a whole lot of posts about the JBR murder lately. Face it, creep, your posts probably don't usually have much to do with it either. And by the way, I remember the past months with Marcie & she NEVER claimed her partner was a singer. Someone else made that assumption. Asshole. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: B.J. E-mail: Location: CA Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Thanks, Marcie, LOL. Just realized what's been missing here--a little humor once in a while. Lighten up, Teeny Brains. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Rosalie E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Marcie, dearest, anal retentive? Oh well, I've certainly been called worse on this forum. No hard feelings at all. But I assure you I am not Ravana. To be mistaken for that ranting person is a much "lower blow" than being called anal retentive. I still have to wonder if your "handle" has something to do with the character on "Married with Children". Could it be your partner had that name on the show? Oh well, Roses! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Generic observer E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 This is how I see it: There have been flaming and PLA participation from almost the beginning of this forum. It is not new, and Marcie's evolution leaves out a lot. The flaming from March-June was more vicious than anything going on now, and it was personal among the "regulars." It was not by kids. It's all there in the archives except the few days which were deleted (yes, this forum deletes things too occasionally). The PLA are not some enemy outsider group; the older ones been forum "regulars" all along. The current crop of unimaginative children are groupies of these older (20ish) regulars. Newbies who follow the links on the PLA pages saying it is fun to come here and add spam. The original PLA regulars discussed the case and freely intermingled here and on the irc channels. The forum dynamic is a lot more convoluted than "us" against "them" and part of the mystique is each poster's feeling that they are part of the elite. Some of us occasionally get on our high horse telling everyone else how they should act and how the forum should be run. All of us try to fit in. I've posted with a tightassed righteousness, a lighthearted romping, and a clinical attention to reasoned debate; some people pick one persona and stay with it. The usual is a different hat for each persona. Some of you are consistent with your personalities and hats, while others change according to the mood of the forum. Myself, I absorb the mood and am affected by it. When the flaming is high there can be no discussion of the case. That is why I write this now. This forum has never been solely about the slain child. It has always been about the internet and in that way is no different than any bulletin board or AOL chat room. They attract PhD's and inner-city dropouts and every socal strata in between, as more and more people decide the internet (or AOL) is essential in their homes. The only time people can talk about the case here is when the professional bulletin board graffiti artists are sleeping or off doing other computer work. I am one of those who found this place because of interest in the case, was shocked by the insane ramblings and bickering, but stayed because of the spates of real discussion. It's so easy to get hooked, as early posters freely admitted. Those who really hate the flaming leave, as the world is full of many things to do. No one is forcing us to come here. Sometimes it is more fun to read the archives than the current posts, and the last two days have been like that. But it will bounce back--it always has. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: been E-mail: rereading Location: the Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 archives. Exite will find them for you. the flaming that was going on since at least january( when I started posting) was worst than anything the kids have posted. It was personal insults. Had nothing to do with information on this case. I thought that was and still is much more imature than anythings the kids do. it was extremely vicious and used some pretty foul language at that. You can guess how these "adults" were raised. No class at all! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: To Generic Observer E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 That was an excellent addition to the history of the forum. Good perspectives. It pulls in the essential history with the ties to 'Net culture, which is very important. Thanks ever so much for taking the time and trouble to share that. Marcie--above poster is correct. With all the flaming that goes on here, many dropped their hats. Personally, I was disgusted with what happened with Peggy O. She was a good poster, too. Do stick around. Just because Fra is not around at the moment does not mean she won't be back. I'm going to ask a question about your famous partner. Does this person live in Texas or do you travel to see each other? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: To: Marcie E-mail: What? Location: You wrote Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 "Anal-retentive and offensive Rosalie/Ravana" and then didn't like getting flamed back! tsk..tsk, people in glass houses...... -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Question for Marcie E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Do lesbians have more feeling in their anuses than normal women? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Ruthie E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Marcie, have you ever met Molly Ivins? She is one of my favorite Texans! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: a real old timer E-mail: computerland Location: fj Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 I see the evolution of the forum a little differently. I've wondered if it perhaps mirrors the development of society. During the first two weeks or so, there were only about ten regular posters: JR, Columbo (the original--why didn't you come back after your vacation?), scanner, texas1, texas2, texas3, Jay, lori, and a few others. Back then there wasn't a separate JBR forum so the JBR threads were mixed in amongst all the other topics. It was a small family. No flaming. But it was scattered. There were multiple JBR threads by topic and people would post to several at a time. When a thread would get nearly full, several people would create a new thread at the same time. The first thread maintenance system was that about 2/3 down a thread someone would announce that they were about to create a new thread. A few days later someone came up with the idea of creating a series of numbered threads all at once. It worked for quite a while. I remember Agent X as the first poster who stuck up for the Ramseys. Lori went after him with a vengeance to the delight of the other posters. It was a small, intimate board. As newcomers would find the forum, they were generally ignored at first. If they were persistent and stuck around for awhile, they were eventually recognized. For example, Chrysalis and Xanadu were initially ignored, then became part of "the group" for several weeks. Then the flaming started in earnest, and the IRC-board war started. So tiring. Maybe I'll stop here--you probably all know the rest of the story. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: fly E-mail: ... Location: on the wall at 2:55 pm edt Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Marcie - Thanks for the chuckle. Much needed. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Yessss! E-mail: you can read Location: Molly Ivins Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 at www.drudgereport.com -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Irc E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Could somesone explain to me the irc war. How many irc channels are there now? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Generic observer E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 There are several layers of this forum - Peggy O. is a good example. The early posts under this hat were serious. A prankster picked up the name and it became a one-joke marathon of obscene postings until it got old enough and was dropped. What's in a name if no one objects? Jameson is the key example of a hat becoming totally trashed and yet remaining. His stolid reappearance at intervals is fun to behold. Even with the most careful reading of archives it is not certain if he/she is a prankster or a victim, since it is known that some pranksters used established hats and imitated the style of these hats very well. The PLA both loves/hates Jameson. I found him offensive and then suspected he loved playing this role and causing controversy. Jameson is accused of posting under many hats but surely he could not have had a factory going and keeping all those identities straight. LindaWS (SheRa) in her various hats is currently loved/hated/shunned by both PLA and forum regulars. Identities are blurred. Every newbie was accused of being DianneE. or jameson. It's all flame war and can get TEDIOUS. But some of it has been funny, because certain personae are so broadly defined and open themselves up to parody. There is no savage wit going on here now, probably because the witty writers left, or lost interest in casting pearls before swine? We are observing the ashes when we read the archives! Yet the most vital part of this forum is that it does provide real leads (links, information, hints, clues, original theories) - it isn't permanently dull, stagnant, newbie-populated and one-note as the other forums tend to be. I'd sure like to see real irc transcripts, as the ones that were posted appeared to be edited or completely fabricated, and NEVER did they talk about the case even though the ostensible reason for going to irc was to get away from the pranksters! Surely there was some real brainstorming there. Unless it really was just another chai and chat diner. I see good discussion of the case on other threads this morning. Excellent! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Astrologer E-mail: Location: 12:30PM PDT Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Generic: You've coined the best name yet for these bullies: bulletin board graffiti artists! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: elf watch E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 great posts, generic observer. This is a really interesting place, and partly becasue there is no solid ground. My hat has been trashed so many times, but I never said any bad thing to anyone. But I can't use it now becasue nobdoy trusts this hat. When I used to lurk, I was always totally confused. PLA always says I'm Linda, but I have no idea who she is. But this is part of what fascinates me. Who is Linda anyway? Does she post here? I really think the people here are really nice most of the time. Compare it to alt.tru-crime. The people there just fight all the time. And not about the case. They fight about who said what endlessly. Here, I think people just change hats and lighten up when things get heavy. Like this thread started out whith flaming, but now it's settled down some. elffy -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: READER E-mail: TO : MARCIE Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 SINCERELY NOW.... when some nut calls you gay it is hitting you where it hurts?????? I don't get it. If you were born to it and feel it is alright then why would it hurt to be called what you claim you are?? Its like Black people wanting free shit and then when they don't get their way or get caught committing a crime they whine.".because I am black isn't it"? Because I am poor isn't it and worst of all. Its all your fault I am in America being poor and getting free stuff because of what your great - great- great grandparents inherited. TOO STUPID to be Funny ya know. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Marcie E-mail: Location: Texas Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Great People are still here!!!!!!!! ::::::clicking heels together::::::::::: Ok....I'll answer the two decent questions I saw. Yes, my partner & I live together here in Texas. And....yes, Ruthie....I do know Molly Ivins :) Isn't she Great??? -------------------------------------------------------- Goodbye Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Sorry, I can't post here anymore E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 I used to be able to come here, see 10 or so strings, and pick through the ones I wanted to read or respond to. I can't do that anymore, and I'm honestly growing bored with the lax police work and the fact that there aren't any new developments here anymore. Thanks for the 6 months I was interested, and all the mature people that posted. Bye kids who ruined this forum. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: ziggy E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 DONT YOU CALL SHOHANI LAX YOU ASS -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Linda E-mail: 17:35 Location: Virginia Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 To above poster: I agree that it's often difficult to wade through the muck that has been rampant on this forum for the last few weeks (since 8/8/97). However, I've not been one to "give up" on anything I strongly believe in or want to follow to the end. It gets me into trouble sometimes, but that's life. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Sha E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Na na na na Na na na na Good bye-eye Go-ood bye -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: doodles E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 You got it wrong... It's Na na na na Na na na na Hey, Hey, Hey go-ood by! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: also sorry sometimes E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 to "Sorry", I've left and come back before and hope you do the same. All viewpoints add to the brainstorming here. The PLA will get bored in time and go away - they already have been winding down. It is obvious you are mature and have thoughts to share. Today there is very little junk, but some very insightful posts and they are no longer hard to find, or being archived after only a few minutes. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Sha E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 To doodles. Hey, you're right! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: . E-mail: . Location: . Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Yawn! Are we to care? there are other forums. Why are you whining? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: To: Sorry E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 I hope you come back too. Maybe if some people would grow up (including the posters here who took it upon themselves to flame each other before the PLA came along) things would be different. I doubt that will happen. We just weed through, and I hope you soon find the patience to do so as well. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Bughead E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 I'm back and love it here. Sooooo . I never flame anyone. I got flamed a lot. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Generic Friend E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Don't give up, I feel that the PLA will soon find another group to hurt and our home will once again be peaceful and cheering to all who enter. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: To Bughead E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 We welcome you back. We missed you Bughead. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: READER E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 WHO LIVES HERE ANYWAY?? oh yeah. nevermind. -------------------------------------------------------- How the pla can hurt you! Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Watch Out! E-mail: a@a Location: Posted on: Sunday August 24, 1997 Web Spoofing: An Internet Con Game Edward W. Felten, Dirk Balfanz, Drew Dean, and Dan S. Wallach Technical Report 540�96 Department of Computer Science, Princeton University Introduction This paper describes an Internet security attack that could endanger the privacy of World Wide Web users and the integrity of their data. The attack can be carried out on today's systems, endangering users of the most common Web browsers, including Netscape Navigator and Microsoft Internet Explorer. Web spoofing allows an attacker to create a "shadow copy" of the entire World Wide Web. Accesses to the shadow Web are funneled through the attacker's machine, allowing the attacker to monitor the all of the victim's activities including any passwords or account numbers the victim enters. The attacker can also cause false or misleading data to be sent to Web servers in the victim's name, or to the victim in the name of any Web server. In short, the attacker observes and controls everything the victim does on the Web. We have implemented a demonstration version of this attack. Spoofing Attacks In a spoofing attack, the attacker creates misleading context in order to trick the victim into making an inappropriate security-relevant decision. A spoofing attack is like a con game: the attacker sets up a false but convincing world around the victim. The victim does something that would be appropriate if the false world were real. Unfortunately, activities that seem reasonable in the false world may have disastrous effects in the real world. Spoofing attacks are possible in the physical world as well as the electronic one. For example, there have been several incidents in which criminals set up bogus automated-teller machines, typically in the public areas of shopping malls. The machines would accept ATM cards and ask the person to enter their PIN code. Once the machine had the victim's PIN, it could either eat the card or "malfunction" and return the card. In either case, the criminals had enough information to copy the victim's card and use the duplicate. In these attacks, people were fooled by the context they saw: the location of the machines, their size and weight, the way they were decorated, and the appearance of their electronic displays. People using computer systems often make security-relevant decisions based on contextual cues they see. For example, you might decide to type in your bank account number because you believe you are visiting your bank's Web page. This belief might arise because the page has a familiar look, because the bank's URL appears in the browser's location line, or for some other reason. To appreciate the range and severity of possible spoofing attacks, we must look more deeply into two parts of the definition of spoofing: security-relevant decisions and context. Security-relevant Decisions By "security-relevant decision," we mean any decision a person makes that might lead to undesirable results such as a breach of privacy or unauthorized tampering with data. Deciding to divulge sensitive information, for example by typing in a password or account number, is one example of a security-relevant decision. Choosing to accept a downloaded document is a security-relevant decision, since in many cases a downloaded document is capable of containing malicious elements that harm the person receiving the document. Even the decision to accept the accuracy of information displayed by your computer can be security-relevant. For example, if you decide to buy a stock based on information you get from an online stock ticker, you are trusting that the information provided by the ticker is correct. If somebody could present you with incorrect stock prices, they might cause you to engage in a transaction that you would not have otherwise made, and this could cost you money. Context A browser presents many types of context that users might rely on to make decisions. The text and pictures on a Web page might give some impression about where the page came from; for example, the presence of a corporate logo implies that the page originated at a certain corporation. The appearance of an object might convey a certain impression; for example, neon green text on a purple background probably came from Wired magazine. You might think you're dealing with a popup window when what you are seeing is really just a rectangle with a border and a color different from the surrounding parts of the screen. Particular graphical items like file-open dialog boxes are immediately recognized as having a certain purpose. Experienced Web users react to such cues in the same way that experienced drivers react to stop signs without reading them. The names of objects can convey context. People often deduce what is in a file by its name. Is manual.doc the text of a user manual? (It might be another kind of document, or it might not be a document at all.) URLs are another example. Is MICR0S0FT.COM the address of a large software company? (For a while that address pointed to someone else entirely. By the way, the round symbols in MICR0S0FT here are the number zero, not the letter O.) Was dole96.org Bob Dole's 1996 presidential campaign? (It was not; it pointed to a parody site.) People often get context from the timing of events. If two things happen at the same time, you naturally think they are related. If you click over to your bank's page and a username/password dialog box appears, you naturally assume that you should type the name and password that you use for the bank. If you click on a link and a document immediately starts downloading, you assume that the document came from the site whose link you clicked on. Either assumption could be wrong. If you only see one browser window when an event occurs, you might not realize that the event was caused by another window hiding behind the visible one. Modern user-interface designers spend their time trying to devise contextual cues that will guide people to behave appropriately, even if they do not explicitly notice the cues. While this is usually beneficial, it can become dangerous when people are accustomed to relying on context that is not always correct. TCP and DNS Spoofing Another class of spoofing attack, which we will not discuss here, tricks the user's software into an inappropriate action by presenting misleading information to that software. Examples of such attacks include TCP spoofing, in which Internet packets are sent with forged return addresses, and DNS spoofing, in which the attacker forges information about which machine names correspond to which network addresses. These other spoofing attacks are well known, so we will not discuss them further. Web Spoofing Web spoofing is a kind of electronic con game in which the attacker creates a convincing but false copy of the entire World Wide Web. The false Web looks just like the real one: it has all the same pages and links. However, the attacker controls the false Web, so that all network traffic between the victim's browser and the Web goes through the attacker. Consequences Since the attacker can observe or modify any data going from the victim to Web servers, as well as controlling all return traffic from Web servers to the victim, the attacker has many possibilities. These include surveillance and tampering. Surveillance The attacker can passively watch the traffic, recording which pages the victim visits and the contents of those pages. When the victim fills out a form, the entered data is transmitted to a Web server, so the attacker can record that too, along with the response sent back by the server. Since most on-line commerce is done via forms, this means the attacker can observe any account numbers or passwords the victim enters. As we will see below, the attacker can carry out surveillance even if the victim has a "secure" connection (usually via Secure Sockets Layer) to the server, that is, even if the victim's browser shows the secure-connection icon (usually an image of a lock or a key). Tampering The attacker is also free to modify any of the data traveling in either direction between the victim and the Web. The attacker can modify form data submitted by the victim. For example, if the victim is ordering a product on-line, the attacker can change the product number, the quantity, or the ship-to address. The attacker can also modify the data returned by a Web server, for example by inserting misleading or offensive material in order to trick the victim or to cause antagonism between the victim and the server. Spoofing the Whole Web You may think it is difficult for the attacker to spoof the entire World Wide Web, but it is not. The attacker need not store the entire contents of the Web. The whole Web is available on-line; the attacker's server can just fetch a page from the real Web when it needs to provide a copy of the page on the false Web. How the Attack Works The key to this attack is for the attacker's Web server to sit between the victim and the rest of the Web. This kind of arrangement is called a "man in the middle attack" in the security literature. URL Rewriting The attacker's first trick is to rewrite all of the URLs on some Web page so that they point to the attacker's server rather than to some real server. Assuming the attacker's server is on the machine www.attacker.org, the attacker rewrites a URL by adding http://www.attacker.org to the front of the URL. For example, http://home.netscape.com becomes http://www.attacker.org/http://home.netscape.com. (The URL rewriting technique has been used for other reasons by two other Web sites, the Anonymizer and the Zippy filter. See page 9 for details.) Figure 1 shows what happens when the victim requests a page through one of the rewritten URLs. The victim's browser requests the page from www.attacker.org, since the URL starts with http://www.attacker.org. The remainder of the URL tells the attacker's server where on the Web to go to get the real document. ( Too big to transmit ... DF (I have it if you want it) ) Figure 1: An example Web transaction during a Web spoofing attack. The victim requests a Web page. The following steps occur: (1) the victim's browser requests the page from the attacker's server; (2) the attacker's server requests the page from the real server; (3) the real server provides the page to the attacker's server; (4) the attacker's server rewrites the page; (5) the attacker's server provides the rewritten version to the victim. Once the attacker's server has fetched the real document needed to satisfy the request, the attacker rewrites all of the URLs in the document into the same special form by splicing http://www.attacker.org/ onto the front. Then the attacker's server provides the rewritten page to the victim's browser. Since all of the URLs in the rewritten page now point to www.attacker.org, if the victim follows a link on the new page, the page will again be fetched through the attacker's server. The victim remains trapped in the attacker's false Web, and can follow links forever without leaving it. Forms If the victim fills out a form on a page in a false Web, the result appears to be handled properly. Spoofing of forms works naturally because forms are integrated closely into the basic Web protocols: form submissions are encoded in URLs and the replies are ordinary HTML Since any URL can be spoofed, forms can also be spoofed. When the victim submits a form, the submitted data goes to the attacker's server. The attacker's server can observe and even modify the submitted data, doing whatever malicious editing desired, before passing it on to the real server. The attacker's server can also modify the data returned in response to the form submission. "Secure" connections don't help One distressing property of this attack is that it works even when the victim requests a page via a "secure" connection. If the victim does a "secure" Web access ( a Web access using the Secure Sockets Layer) in a false Web, everything will appear normal: the page will be delivered, and the secure connection indicator (usually an image of a lock or key) will be turned on. The victim's browser says it has a secure connection because it does have one. Unfortunately the secure connection is to www.attacker.org and not to the place the victim thinks it is. The victim's browser thinks everything is fine: it was told to access a URL at www.attacker.org so it made a secure connection to www.attacker.org. The secure-connection indicator only gives the victim a false sense of security. Starting the Attack To start an attack, the attacker must somehow lure the victim into the attacker's false Web. There are several ways to do this. An attacker could put a link to a false Web onto a popular Web page. If the victim is using Web-enabled email, the attacker could email the victim a pointer to a false Web, or even the contents of a page in a false Web. Finally, the attacker could trick a Web search engine into indexing part of a false Web. Completing the Illusion The attack as described thus far is fairly effective, but it is not perfect. There is still some remaining context that can give the victim clues that the attack is going on. However, it is possible for the attacker to eliminate virtually all of the remaining clues of the attack's existence. Such evidence is not too hard to eliminate because browsers are very customizable. The ability of a Web page to control browser behavior is often desirable, but when the page is hostile it can be dangerous. The Status Line The status line is a single line of text at the bottom of the browser window that displays various messages, typically about the status of pending Web transfers. The attack as described so far leaves two kinds of evidence on the status line. First, when the mouse is held over a Web link, the status line displays the URL the link points to. Thus, the victim might notice that a URL has been rewritten. Second, when a page is being fetched, the status line briefly displays the name of the server being contacted. Thus, the victim might notice that www.attacker.org is displayed when some other name was expected. The attacker can cover up both of these cues by adding a JavaScript program to every rewritten page. Since JavaScript programs can write to the status line, and since it is possible to bind JavaScript actions to the relevant events, the attacker can arrange things so that the status line participates in the con game, always showing the victim what would have been on the status line in the real Web. Thus the spoofed context becomes even more convincing. The Location Line The browser's location line displays the URL of the page currently being shown. The victim can also type a URL into the location line, sending the browser to that URL. The attack as described so far causes a rewritten URL to appear in the location line, giving the victim a possible indication that an attack is in progress. This clue can be hidden using JavaScript. A JavaScript program can hide the real location line and replace it by a fake location line which looks right and is in the expected place. The fake location line can show the URL the victim expects to see. The fake location line can also accept keyboard input, allowing the victim to type in URLs normally. Typed-in URLs can be rewritten by the JavaScript program before being accessed. Viewing the Document Source There is one clue that the attacker cannot eliminate, but it is very unlikely to be noticed. By using the browser's "view source" feature, the victim can look at the HTML source for the currently displayed page. By looking for rewritten URLs in the HTML source, the victim can spot the attack. Unfortunately, HTML source is hard for novice users to read, and very few Web surfers bother to look at the HTML source for documents they are visiting, so this provides very little protection. A related clue is available if the victim chooses the browser's "view document information" menu item. This will display information including the document's real URL, possibly allowing the victim to notice the attack. As above, this option is almost never used so it is very unlikely that it will provide much protection. Bookmarks There are several ways the victim might accidentally leave the attacker's false Web during the attack. Accessing a bookmark or jumping to a URL by using the browser's "Open location" menu item might lead the victim back into the real Web. The victim might then reenter the false Web by clicking the "Back" button. We can imagine that the victim might wander in and out of one or more false Webs. Of course, bookmarks can also work against the victim, since it is possible to bookmark a page in a false Web. Jumping to such a bookmark would lead the victim into a false Web again. Tracing the Attacker Some people have suggested that this attack can be deterred by finding and punishing the attacker. It is true that the attacker's server must reveal its location in order to carry out the attack, and that evidence of that location will almost certainly be available after an attack is detected. Unfortunately, this will not help much in practice because attackers will break into the machine of some innocent person and launch the attack there. Stolen machines will be used in these attacks for the same reason most bank robbers make their getaways in stolen cars. Remedies Web spoofing is a dangerous and nearly undetectable security attack that can be carried out on today's Internet. Fortunately there are some protective measures you can take. Short-term Solution In the short run, the best defense is to follow a three-part strategy: . disable JavaScript in your browser so the attacker will be unable to hide the evidence of the attack; . make sure your browser's location line is always visible; . pay attention to the URLs displayed on your browser's location line, making sure they always point to the server you think you're connected to. This strategy will significantly lower the risk of attack, though you could still be victimized if you are not conscientious about watching the location line. At present, JavaScript, ActiveX, and Java all tend to facilitate spoofing and other security attacks, so we recommend that you disable them. Doing so will cause you to lose some useful functionality, but you can recoup much of this loss by selectively turning on these features when you visit a trusted site that requires them. Long-term Solution We do not know of a fully satisfactory long-term solution to this problem. Changing browsers so they always display the location line would help, although users would still have to be vigilant and know how to recognize rewritten URLs. For pages that are not fetched via a secure connection, there is not much more that can be done. For pages fetched via a secure connection, an improved secure-connection indicator could help. Rather than simply indicating a secure connection, browsers should clearly say who is at the other end of the connection. This information should be displayed in plain language, in a manner intelligible to novice users; it should say something like "Microsoft Inc." rather than "www.microsoft.com." Every approach to this problem seems to rely on the vigilance of Web users. Whether we can realistically expect everyone to be vigilant all of the time is debatable. Related Work We did not invent the URL rewriting technique. Previously, URL rewriting has been used as a technique for providing useful services to people who have asked for them. We know of two existing services that use URL rewriting. The Anonymizer, written by Justin Boyan at Carnegie Mellon University, is a service that allows users to surf the Web without revealing their identities to the sites they visit. The Zippy filter, written by Henry Minsky, presents an amusing vision of the Web with Zippy-the-Pinhead sayings inserted at random. Though we did not invent URL rewriting, we believe we are the first to realize its full potential as one component of a security attack. Acknowledgments The URL-rewriting part of our demonstration program is based on Henry Minsky's code for the Zippy filter. We are grateful to David Hopwood for useful discussions about spoofing attacks, and to Gary McGraw and Laura Felten for comments on drafts of this paper. The figure was designed by Gary McGraw. For More Information More information is available from our Web page at http://www.cs.princeton.edu/sip, or from Prof. Edward Felten at felten@cs.princeton.edu or (609) 258-5906. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: LOL E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 The PLA are not hackers. There is no way they are that good! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Watch Out! E-mail: a@a Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 In other words, all you need to do is go to a web page that the attacker controls (one they have written) and you are a fly in a spider's web. You have been caught in a FALSE web. To protect yourself, if you visit a pla page, accept no cookies, disable java, and disable javascript. Visit no sites after the pla incursion. Log off the net, in case you were caught in a FALSE web (that will free you). -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: WO E-mail: a@a Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 LOL - I tend to agree with you, but with characters like these, you can never be "too careful". They may have friends who can do this. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: oiwhilkweh E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 get bent queer -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Dr Fang E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 The whole world was created by the PLA. They are doing experiments on you right now. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: dfdfgsdfh E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 oh i'm scared pla are pussies -------------------------------------------------------- RBCP I'VE GOT YOU Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: you stealing crime wave phone loser E-mail: lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll Location: lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 I've found you bud. Better start packing up that fam of yours cuz its just hours till someone knocks on your door. It was the most fun search of my life. But you left to many clues. LOL [Yeah, like RBCP's home address on his web page. Boy, what an amazing cyber-sleuth. ] -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: To Gotcha E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Yeah, well, you've said that about a million times. I'll believe it when I see it. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: PLEASE E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Oh Sweet Jesus, let it be true. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Odd E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Your web page said your off your computer since late on Sunday. But now you're supposed to be on it? Sure you are. Must be a little teen cronie of yours posting that. So pathetic. -------------------------------------------------------- Forum Lifeboat Thread Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: GSH E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Jump aboard!!! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Kuan-Yin E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Today I ask all sincere forum members to think dark thoughts towards rbcp, so that our light may shine again. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: TT. E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 GSH and KUAN-Yin: what is this mysterious thread for? What does sticking in the last pin mean on JBR #1 active thread? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: READER E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 WHAT IS RBCP? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: jameson 趾� E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Koby is back from vacation, Hunter had his recently - whose turn is next - Enquiring minds want to know. Have to follow SOME news out of Boulder! :) -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: TT to READER E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 I am trying to find out what it is, and which threads create others when you hit on them? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: / E-mail: / Location: / Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 TT, reading threads HERE will not create a new thread. Going to some of the sites mentioned on these extra threads and clicking on icons there HAS been a problem. Just don't go to those foreign sites. You can safely look at anything here. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Techie E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 There is nothing bad that come happen by looking at any thread here. In the past, the pla has posted URLs for websites that had the capability to create threads here. People went to these URLS and clicked on an image, and this created a thread here. We saw what they were doing and called the ISP where the web site was and it was closed down. Since then, PLA still has moved the website, but I think they just use it themselves to create threads here. They don't tell us where it is. People here don't crete threads by clicking on anything here. PLA has suceeded in making a lot of people paranoid. Just don't pay any attention to the threads that all have the same name. The automatically created thread name is sometimes a URL. But this is just text as it appears here. You can't go there unless you paste it into your location entry area on your browser. Just don't do that and you'll be fine. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: READER E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 I DONT BELIEVE THAT threads are procreating..... someone want s the Teacher said all this before it was accessable stuff to disappear. FAST Go to the READER points out killer thread before it is gone. It is referring to last night CNBC and Ransom note and forum infor that came from the web-imp . IT COMES BEFORE THE NEWS is released So the threads began building as soon as I pointed out what YOU ALL MISSED by leaving for the weekend trash. IT was and is here on weekends. IT could be the perp. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Your Mom E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 TO READER: Please get some sleep, dear. We'll talk about going back to the rehab when you wake up. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: TT to Techie E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Gee, that was helpful, thanks. I have asked before, the poster / on another thread said the same. Great relief! I sure didn't want to make more threads, no way. One more question please: If these multiple threads, same geoc./spessa etc. How do they get more than ONE an hour, sorry if that has been stated already. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Techie E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 I think they may have several people working on this. At certain times of day, it's very slow, like only one person is doing it. Other times, at night especially, I think they have several people doing it at once. The URL for the thread creating page may be on a bulletin board somewhere. Anyway, you can post more than once an hour if you log off and then log on again. I think some of the kids who post here may be getting ready for the Special Olympics and won't have as much time as they did. Hope they make the team! It's nice for them to succeed at something. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: TT to Techie E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Thanks again. Got it now. big sigh..... out now. -------------------------------------------------------- the reason behind all these threads Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: READER E-mail: ME@ME.COM Location: TEXAS Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 The minute I started trying to tell yall about the weekend that Teacher wrote all the quotes being quite before the realease of the quotes from the Ramseys ad..........new threads popped up right and left. IT was very obvious. For those of you that are somewhat new. The so=called PLA and IT and Sissy Boy started the wars inhere by taking a Lady name Jayne-Lisa's (teacher for real) hat and Jamesons hat and saying stuff similar to what they would say then adding bizarre and sick things in about THE CASE and then towards the othe. Whatever you choose to call the web-imp, IT is clever. Clever enough to have killed Jonbenet and clever enough to have staged the whole thing. Does not mean it was JR and PR. or Burke......but would at least have to have very close access to all. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: TO READER E-mail: Location: TT Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Thanks for explaing, but I am still not clear about it. I have read another thread about this below. then the Lifeboat thread. Are they connected. Is this another joke besides all the spamming threads. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: READER E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 NOT A JOKE AND it seems they or IT can mess with yuo. I was asked last night which thread I was on and I said many. I think my computer is so fast that it cannot get what it needs from me. While I was posting below to explain to Mrs. Brady and Nina and all, I started shutting donw. Going to try and make short posts. It could be coincidental and cause d by heavy Mon morn traffci.. Can't take time to correct just in case. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Your Mother E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Reader: I think a couple of cups of black coffee or a few hours sleep, one or the other, might be in order. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: / E-mail: / Location: / Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 READER, There is no reason for the killer to monitor or to try to disrupt this forum. This forum will not solve the crime or have any effect on anything except the lives of those posting. Those saying the Ramseys, the killer, the tabloids, etc. are manipulating this forum are just paranoid. TT, the forum is being attacked because a bunch of morons (PLA and others) think the forum is stupid and think it's fun to attack it. It is the cyberspace equivalent of making "Do you have Prince Albert in a can?" phonecalls, blowing up mailboxes, or spraypainting graffiti. Don't worry about it. Ignore it. Don't go to the web sites given on the intruder threads. Some of those sites have been rigged to post threads here and elsewhere, and that compounds our problem. Don't worry about reading the threads here. That has not caused threads to be posted here or elsewhere. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Whatever E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Nevertheless the murderer wrote about the movies that the quotes came from before it was logical for anyone to have known that, and the murderer wrote about it on this forum, and nothing can change that -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: READER E-mail: BEEN HERE ON WEEKENDS. Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 THANKS, YOU COMIN over to fix it for me.? I am glued to the forum. The McReynolds could NOT HAVE pulled this off without help.........where IS there daughter??? Wasn;t her friend molested and she unharmed except emotionally.? They would be clever writers. Then again so would Patsy , JR. so on and so on. You, the owner of the Forum that is going to TELL ON EVERYONE for having opinions. Gee.....get a grip. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: TT to / E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 I welcome your response. I am now clear as to the goings on I guess. I have wondered why etc. and nobody really made a reply. Will continue to post under my other "HAT" now and be less paranoid. Thanks much! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: / E-mail: / Location: / Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 whatever, can you post the archived thread numbers for this? That would be interesting and helpful. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: TT to / E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 I asked that from whatever, the reply was "go to your own archives" I said I didn't have any but remember only posts about movies at the same general time as other posters. :-) -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Help! E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 I don't remember Teacher or anyone saying anything about the movies until after the leaks from the note. Are you saying Teacher was the killer? What does Jameson have to do with it? I thought the PLA was just trying to break up the forum and I didn't think they paid any attention to the subject at hand. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: / E-mail: / Location: / Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 TT, The archives refer to the archived threads from this forum. To access them go to BoulderNews home page and click on Ramsey archives box (right), then on archives box (or similar, at left), and whatever month you want. You shouldn't have to do the research for Reader, though. She's the one who should do the homework. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: To Help E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Reader has said July 27th or Aug. 6th archives, Teacher or IT posted the movie Dirty Harry quotes before it was public. Another thread above now. what is it? Dunno???? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: helper E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 http://www.bouldernews.com/BoulderNews/Ramsey/index.htm Click on whatever month you want from the archives, hope this helps:) You can highlight the URL go to your edit and select paste and there you go. -------------------------------------------------------- JBR FORUM gets BUTT KICKED Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: * * * E-mail: *(* Location: later Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Yuk, yuk, yuk LOSERS -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Nancy E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Oh yeah, you really kicked our butts! You spammed a forum that has no protection. What a guy!!!! You're so powerful, and intelligent the way you hacked into this site!! Bow down to the ultra hackers. There is no system that can stop them. hahahahahahaha -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Harold E-mail: Location: SF Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 PLA Sucks! Members of PLA also Suck! You guys don't know the difference between hackers and creeps. Hackers have some intelligence and some reason. You kiddy creeps have the same smarts as spray can vandals. I wouldn't boast about vandalism that only takes a moron brain. Pretty soon your efforts will no longer be worth the little kick you get out of trashing things, and you will lose interest. Then the forum will get back to normal. I am looking forward to that day. Get lost, morons!!! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: NONONONONONO E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 FOR THE LAST TIME, THE PLA ARE _NOT_ HACKERS!!! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: The PLA E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Are not even human. dodododo dodododo doooooooooo It's the Twilight zone. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: + E-mail: ++ Location: +++ Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Anybody can trash a forum! How does that equate with accomplishing anything? -------------------------------------------------------- PLA DWEEBS Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Nachochinq E-mail: Masterrace.com Location: Fatherland Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Greetings to PLA; EXPLAIN to me how you can plug the coin return in a pay phone with gum ???? What brilliant arch criminals yous are. Yer My heroes.. Yers truly Nachochinq -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: RBCP E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 Ok, I'll tell, but it's a secret. Take a pice of gum and unwrap it. I like Grape Bubbalicious. Put it in your mouth. Chew. Keep chewing until it's chewed really good. Go to a payphone. Take the gum out of your mouth and out it in and around the coin return. Repeat as necessary. Cool huh? -------------------------------------------------------- Linda got arrested today Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Kender E-mail: Location: Krynn Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 It was all over the news, yesterday, Linda got arrested for propositioning a four year old hispanic boy. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Anonymous E-mail: Location: Posted on: Monday August 25, 1997 I heard about it, and they are saying they might allow into evidence some tapes that contain scenes of her raping young males with large green didlos -------------------------------------------------------- Tripod Response Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: LIL E-mail: hope2@breeze.com Location: CA Posted on: Tuesday August 26, 1997 Thank you for your concern and for bringing this to our attention. The page you are referring to is no longer being served by Tripod. Hi Folk; This response came back from TRIPOD when I emailed them to complain about our PLA thread pukes. I thought I had noticed some improvement, maybe this did have an affect. In any case, the pukes a well repeated PLA URL have been delt with. Hope it sticks. -------------------------------------------------------- Shut up Linda! Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Megan E-mail: Location: Posted on: Tuesday August 26, 1997 We all know your posting and answering your own post under different hats! You are a disgusting person, get a life and stop talking to yourself!! Why dont you go find some dumb old lady to bilk out of her life savings with your mystic garbage! only a retard would think that something a con artist like you would say may be true. Go find a boardwalk to tell fortunes on and get lost you straw haired spook. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: hahhaha E-mail: hhahah Location: hhahah Posted on: Tuesday August 26, 1997 Now THATS a post you KNOW linda did not write to herself!!! Notice other post are never TOO hard on her? well thats cause she posts em herself and can't bruise her own ego too much. hahhaha your so easy to figure out -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: yeah it's real obvious E-mail: Location: Posted on: Tuesday August 26, 1997 damn Linda, or shera or whoever you are, we're tired of you making this your stage for attention. Cant you find some real people to talk to? If that page is "unauthorized" as you say, why don't you get it taken down? you seem to love the fact that all kinds of people are going to look at your picture, and read your stupid ramblings about voodoo. there are plenty of newsgroups for "psychic" people such as yourself, go advertise your page there. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Megan E-mail: Location: Posted on: Tuesday August 26, 1997 Come on people!! Let Linda know we don't care if she thinks she is guilty or not, she has to go! Now this is not so much of a problem for me, I find people who talk about psycics inane. Don't be taken in by the snow job Linda lays down, if you think she is trustworthy then someone should sell you swampland in florida, cause your a sucker! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: YAWN E-mail: Location: Posted on: Tuesday August 26, 1997 Linda is foolish and amusing in her pathetic way. -------------------------------------------------------- It appears that the PLA really are Losers Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Eye E-mail: Never Location: Giveup Posted on: Tuesday August 26, 1997 They have been forced to disable their Forum. They can no longer post cool html to their guestbook. Their whole page really sucks! There's nothing on it besides ancient phone phreaking secrets now. I don't think I'd be bragging about kicking anyone's butt if I were them. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: i know it E-mail: Location: Posted on: Tuesday August 26, 1997 they are crying babies. WAh wahwahawhhawhwhahwahhwahwahha -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Megan E-mail: Location: Posted on: Tuesday August 26, 1997 Guess you did not read "Shut up Linda" Go find someone who cares voodoo looser -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Telstar E-mail: Location: Posted on: Tuesday August 26, 1997 Linda go burn some incense in your ass! Go play pretend on irc -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: ROTFLMAO E-mail: Location: Posted on: Wednesday August 27, 1997 Linda, Take your battle with the kiddies back to mirc, it's becoming tiresome here. You are egging this on and they seem to be ignoring you now. -------------------------------------------------------- I (the real LindaWS)did NOT post these things Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: LindaWS E-mail: LindaWS@hotmail.com Location: Posted on: Wednesday August 27, 1997 Why do you think I did? And why, do you think that I am not psychic? I am an intelligent, honest psychic individual, and that intimidates a lot of people. I'm used to it. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: . E-mail: . Location: . Posted on: Wednesday August 27, 1997 Your a psychic answer your own questions! :) Can you guess what we all think of you? psychic -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: To LindaWS E-mail: Location: Posted on: Wednesday August 27, 1997 Listen carefully, the forum is sick of you, the PLA, and your little war. Go back to Transylvania! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Megan E-mail: Location: Posted on: Wednesday August 27, 1997 Come on Linda, run your flim flam scam somewhere else, like mirc. You know, sometime back psychics used to be known by another name... Gypsys!! Any big city cop will tell you to stay clear of these people because they were the biggest of the con artists. Stop lying and break off from the forum! It's funny back in the days before PC we used to call "psychics" Gypsys, and we used to call "homeless" BUMS (which they are) Lets get rid of PC! hehheh -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: To Megan E-mail: Location: Posted on: Wednesday August 27, 1997 What's your last name? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Megan E-mail: Location: Posted on: Wednesday August 27, 1997 Oh I see, Your psychic powers only work when somebody is paying. Well I'm sorry if you want my last name you'll have to invoke your higher power. Judging by your display and content of character I think that giving you personel info just might not be to my favor. Did you really expect response other than that? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Disappointed E-mail: To Megan Location: Posted on: Wednesday August 27, 1997 Yes I did, Megan, and I guess I'll just have to learn to be less naive. I am hoping you will change your mind. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: LindaWS E-mail: Location: Posted on: Wednesday August 27, 1997 I did not choose to become targeted by the PLA. They singled me out and continue to harass me to this day. My only reason for retaliating against them was to help clear this forum of them. Is that not what we all want? It seemed that was the case to me, until you all started picking on me. Perhaps you would rather I just be quiet and let them have thier fun ruining this forum? I guarantee things around here will be much worse once I stop intimidating them. They are very scared of me, you know. They know the powers that I have and they know I have voodoo dolls of each of them. Why do you think they haven't been around much lately? The answer is simple. I have placed pins in the hand of the dolls, which in turn instigates a form of arthritis. I believe that their hands hurt them so much that they haven't had the will to type, make pages about us or create new ways to spam the board. If you want me to take the pins out, I will oblige. If you want me to leave, I will do so with no further comment. As for impersonating other professions on the IRC, who hasn't done that? Everyone likes to roleplay. I find it fun to play a psychiatrist and have people tell me their problems. It is good for them to get their emotions out. I have had many people thank me for being a shoulder to cry on, and for listening to them and suggesting ideas with which to solve their problems. Sometimes I do like to like to impersonate a veterinarian, because I find animals fascinating and it is great fun to talk to other veterinarians. I would have no other opportunity to do so. I really am a museum curator, so that isn't a role that I'm playing. LindaWS SheRa DrQ elf watch (when it's not Tannest, that is) many other hats in the last 8 months If you want me to go, just say so. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: no kidding E-mail: sick Location: to death Posted on: Wednesday August 27, 1997 This Linda person is the main problem on this board now. The PLA seems to have gone away, more or less, but Linda continues to ruin the forum. Quit it, Linda, PLEASE. It looks as though the war is somewhat over but you're just trying to stir things up again. If they're bothering you off of this forum then deal with it there. [The following few posts are from the Opinion Forum, a forum not related to BNF in any way other than being hosted on the same domain. BNF Regulars go there to post about the JBR case when discussion becomes impossible on the regular forum. ] Damned Ramsey Boarders Return to the Opinion forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Keep your fools over there E-mail: we don't want it here Location: Posted on: Sunday September 21, 1997 You may enjoy playing with those kids, but we sure don't. I've seen the stupid games you play with them, and now you've brought them over here. Boulder News, please get rid of the Ramsey Board! -------------------------------------------------------- Ooooo, my big hard dick wants to dive into your de Return to the Opinion forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: jameson 趾� E-mail: jameson@abts.net Location: Hickory, North Carolina Posted on: Sunday September 21, 1997 Okay, I found some very offensive posts by the people over at the Ramsey board and I'm quite pissed off that they are trying to TRICK me by posting in a single thread over here. That is just not cool and I'm sorry to say that I'll have to take my anger out on the Opinion Forum. It's nothing against you people personally, please understand that. I'm a really nice guy and I get my paperwork the the wellfare office on time just like any other good citizen, but when I see Dead Girl Stalkers trying to pull a fast one on me, it just makes me mad. Here are the offending posts: ---------- We are only asking for one thread to use until BN solves the problem over there. We do not want people to forget that a six-year-old girl is rotting in a grave in Georgia while the person who raped, strangled, bludgeoned and brutalized her is walking around free-- maybe right there in your lovely town of Boulder. ----- And this is the reply post: ----- If you'll notice, there's more than one thread on this opinion forum about the ramsey case. And when the brats on the ramsey forum see you coming over here, they will come over here next and trash this one. That is why this forum is asking you to go back to the ramsey forum. it's a little hard to forget the ramsey case with all the media hype, don't you think. --------- You're so right, sir. Have a nice day! [After that post, the spammer(s) went crazy, spamming the Opinion Forum with the same post, over and over and over making it nearly impossible to hold a discussion. ] -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: to the assholescents E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday September 21, 1997 Why don't you little monsters go to the Buff Zone, or are you afraid of that one? Notice you've never trashed there. Think we know why. Because you know damn well you can't get away with it over there because that one really is off limits to the likes of you. Boulder News doesn't care about the other Forums, but you know you can't do the trashing there for you'd never get away with it. That is where The News draws the line on your stupidity. Ha! At least we know you know there are limits to what you are allowed to do and where you can actually trash. Nice to know at last that you are indeed fallible. And obviously vulnerable. It's simply delicious, little imps. [After this post, the Buff Zone (a sports forum) was severely trashed, although nobody ever seemed to post real discussion there anyway. Now, back to the regular BNF posts...] -------------------------------------------------------- LogicBox's IRC Channel (#bigbeefbueno) Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: IRCop E-mail: Location: DALnet Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 There are now about forty people that Logicbox had to BAN from his chat channel #bigbeefbueno, you can look at this by going into the channel and double click anywhere (mIRC), a dialog box with a list of banned people will appear. Last night it was half as many people banned, Do you think he has been getting alot of annoying people comming into the channel? I'm having a good belly roll watching that ban list get bigger and bigger. Anyway, anyone with an IRC client can go in and peek around even say "hi" You can easily get mIRC from Tucows, installs in a snap. Don't have too much fun at logics expence -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: LOL E-mail: Location: Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 It's a trick. The PLA is trying to get your IP address. NEENER NEENER NEENER. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: huh E-mail: Location: Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 what good is an ip address? thats just (server).(domain).(com) All that tell someone is what server you happen to be logged into, that changes each time you connect. Your confusing it with an email address, an IP address does not contain the portion with you name (bjones@(domain).(com))IP address is just so the NET knows where you are at that point in time, like I said everytime you redial your IP changes (dynamic IP) dont take my word for it, do a search on tcp/ip protocol and naming and educate yourself, if your gonna do any fighting back then god damit educate yourself!! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: LOL E-mail: Location: Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 If I had meant email address I would have said email address ya GOD DAMN QUEER!!!! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: RBCP=Brad Carter E-mail: Location: Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 RBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad CarterRBCP=Brad Carter -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: you E-mail: hurt Location: my Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 FEELINGS, I understand however that you are not interested in enabling anyone to to harass your pla channel, thus your forgiven. They gotta really hate that i'm posting there chan info, oh well -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: LOL E-mail: Location: Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 Anyone who uses "your" when the correct word is "you're" has GOT to be a member of the PLA. LOL. Like I said, it's a trick. Maybe dropping out of school after eighth grade wasn't such a good idea? ROTFLMAO -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: And noticed E-mail: Location: Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 He uses there for their. Tsk, tsk. Given the state of this country's educational standards, he's probably a H.S. Sophmore, at least! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: LOL E-mail: Location: Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 You're probably right about him being a H.S. Sophomore. But does he realize this makes him too old to date Tannest? LOL. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Tom E-mail: Location: Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 And notice in the original post, they spelled it "comming" instead of the correct "coming". I've seen the hightly educated PLA spell it that way before. LogicBox is almost illiterate. RBCP is only slightly more intelligent. Tannest is probably the brightest of the 3, and she is only a step above rainman. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: LOL E-mail: Location: Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 "rainman"? ROTFLOL I couldn't have said it better myself! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: IRCop E-mail: Location: Posted on: Friday August 29, 1997 Ever think that maybe someone had a little falling out in the PLA, maybe the pecking order got adjusted. Maybe there is bad blood within? ever think that the info is good even if the source is bad? ever think that people grow apart. do what you want with the info heh no one is kissing you're ass to take it!! Your -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: #Cybersleuths E-mail: Founded and Controlled by the Location: PLA Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 All of the BNF regulars left when they realized that this channel was founded by "LogicBox" and his PLA cyber-criminals. Currently, there are just a few of the clueless there led by mapek. Are they having fun? Lots of piddle-patter and virtually NOTHING of substance regarding the "friendly discussion of the JonBenet murder case." Looks like the LAMERZ channel founded and currently possessed by LOSERS! ROTFLMAO! -------------------------------------------------------- Psykopath Is Back Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Psykopath E-mail: psykopath@rocketmail.com Location: Cult of Eternal Damnation Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 I was gone for a while, because, I thought, hey, harrassing this forum is lame, when I could be getting my domain K-lined off Dalnet by harrassing people on IRC, (ask for me by name) but this was in my bookmarks, so I checked back, and there was a definitive lack of creativity in the spams and/or harrassment. So I'm back, with my Cult, and I'll be posting inflamatory and obscene things, and I won't leave until you believe my claims that, yes, my cult did indeed kill little JonBenet, and will kill more child beuaty pageant people. And a note to those harrassing the forum. Rember the good old days when we had ads about the JonBenet Condom, and murder t-shirts? That stuff was funny. Can't you people be funny anymore. And I beleive that got some people really mad. Oh, and so you don't say I'm hiding behind my computer, which is very stupid to claim for reasons I won't go into here, I'll state my real name. It is Josiah Corrigan, you detectives should be able to get my telephone info from that. I also live in Kentucky. Well, a hearty, fuck off to you all, and I'd like to say that I will be selling JonBenet porn very soon. Look for it. -------------------------------------------------------- What is PLA? Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Scott E-mail: Canada@EastCOast Location: NovaScotia Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 Please, what is the PLA? and, where do all the threads go and why do they go so fast? -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: sigh E-mail: Location: Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 Please, read more before you ask such questions. Read threads, read archives. I did it when I was new. No one helped me. It's not so hard. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Court Reporter E-mail: 6:35 a.m. cst Location: Wisconsin Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 TO SIGH!!! Geez sigh, sure wouldn't want you for a teacher, why so bitter because one is asking for help. I myself do not know what PLA is and I do not understand why the threads disappear so fast, sometimes within a half hour a thread will be gone. I don't think that should cause such exuding bitterness from a fellow poster. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: I will help E-mail: Location: Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 The PLA is a cyber organization called Phone Losers of America. Briefly, they are a bunch of cyber geek teenagers that get their thrills bashing BBS's (bulletin board systems) like this one, stealing phone time from Ma Bell, and stealing credit card numbers and then doing lots of illegal things with the stolen credit cards. They are led by a guy called RBCP or Red Box Chili Pepper. He is 24. They began smashing this Forum in February. The three worst of them messing up this Forum are RBCP, LogicBox and Tannest. Some of the forum members got tired of the damage they were doing (in recent weeks they were creating as much as 500 threads in a day) and did some research to find out their true identities. These people found out that RBCP is really Bill Cook of Celina, Ohio and that Tannest is really Samantha Stack of Bend, Oregon. They were supposed to expose LogicBox on Thursday night but Detective X who was doing all of the exposing got sick. So far we don't know anything about LogicBox. If you want to read more about these people go to http://:www.phonelosers.org. If you want to know about how they began smashing this Forum go to their back issues of the PLA Zine and pick issue #45 and look for an article written by LogicBox. Thats all I know about them. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Lil Bird E-mail: Location: 10:46 a.m. Texas time Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 a little clue to all ---thanks for the help but pay no attention to any of them and they will go away. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Detective X E-mail: Location: Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 Logic Boxes real name is Josiah Corrigan and his phone number is 606-223-2772 and he lives inn Lexington KY. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Warning! E-mail: DO Location: NOT Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 trust the information you are given by ANYONE on this forum regarding personal information, i.e. Names, Telephone Numbers, Addresses etc. That is what the PLA are all about. Giving out names, IPs, e-mail info hoping that well meaning people will harass those individuals. The names may or may not be correct for some PLA members. Don't be a party to their small minded schemes. Ignore them as the poster above wisely suggested, because that is the thing that irritates the PLA most. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Wrong E-mail: Location: Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 LogicBox is not Josiah. Logicbox lives in California where PLA West is located. He does not live in Kentucky. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: I E-mail: suspect Location: that this is a Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 Troll Thread, started by one of the little snerts or one of their wannabees. They can't stand it if their name doesn't show up when you open this web site. To: Court Reporter I, for one would be more likely to help someone who asked a question on one of the #'d threads. If you've been a participant in this forum for any length of time or if you will just take the time to read some of the threads (that's participation, isn't it?, you'd understand why we are trying to use those threads to restore some sanity to the forum. -------------------------------------------------------- Psykopath's Master Plan Return to the Ramsey forum index page -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Psykopath E-mail: psykopath@rocketmail.com Location: Cult of Eternal Damantion Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 Ha, since you are so inferior, I will outline my master plan to wreck this forum. So far, I have posted twice today, and one of your forum idiots has made about 150 insulting posts to me in the same thread. So I will now post in all threads, and that idiot will kill your forum for me. Hahaha, I exploit your stupidity! Cult of Eternal Damnation 0wns you! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Dear Psykopath E-mail: Location: Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 I think I understand that you are very ordinary. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Observer E-mail: Location: Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 LogicBox, it's time for bed. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: mona E-mail: Location: Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 the duck story is the only thing one here that is worth reading all you cunts need new brains!!!! -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Hey Psykopath E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 31, 1997 Why do write these stupid posts saying how great your story is? You wrote that mona post yourself, you moron! Do you really think people are impressed because you are capable of saying distastful thing? You are by far the stupidest spammer of all - the least imaginative, and possibly the least intelligent. At least the others were not pretentious enough to imagine that anyone really cared. I'm going to guess that you are one of those people nobody ever notices. So you come on this forum and try to gross out a group of old ladies you don't even know. I always worry about people who are making an effort to act wierd. Like choosing a name like "Psykopath" Is this supposed to be scary? Are we supposed to think you are an out of control maniac of some kind? Why would you want us to think that? What is it that you don't want us to think about you? What is the secret of Psykopath? That he is stupid and boring. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: Psykopath E-mail: is Location: so Posted on: Sunday August 31, 1997 cool and casual. -------------------------------------------------------- Posted by: To Psykopath E-mail: Location: Posted on: Sunday August 31, 1997 So far your master plan seems to be to post something really dumb, then right afterwards, post under a different hat and say how great the really dumb thing was. Brilliant. And original! I checked out your website, boy. What exactly were you going for here? Are we supposed to be: Shocked? (likes Satan, hates Walt Disney and Microsoft) Scared? (Likes Satan and zombies) Impressed? (Black with white writing) What? ------------------------------------------------------------ Posted by: sigh E-mail: Location: Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 The usual paranoia in the threads today. Ah people. People. There is more to life than acne-riddled high school geeks pulling your chains! Every time someone asks about them and we lay out their "history", they bask in their "importance." JonBenet is then nothing, intelligent discourse flies out the window, and the PLA become the star attraction. That is all I meant by my "mean" reply. I am in fact one of the ones who trashed their message board with savage parodies of their methods, based on long hours reading their material and the archives of their spam. I am one of the ones who posted long reprints of their key documents whenever someone asked "who are they". I am one of the ones who sits and types in the latest tabloid if no one else did it yet, as a service to the forum. I am just surprised that anyone could ask who they are unless they just yesterday found this forum for the first time. And if they did, netiquette demands that they not post until they have lurked, and learned "what kind of forum this is" for at least a few weeks. One would expect that the new unwashed masses would not follow netiquette, which is the foundation upon which the successful use of the net is based. But those of us who want the internet to remain a halfway intelligent and civilized means of communication have every right to inject a tiny note of warning that a flame is deserved. And we are flamed in return by our own. I do indeed believe this damned thread was started by one of the pimply faced jailbait heartthrobs of the cradle robber combination forum person/pla person. One of you agrees with me. Most of you scroll by, unconcerned, the rest of you are livid that I didn't sit down and once again cut and paste the history of the pla for the thousandth time. People, please check your common sense sometimes. Common sense tells you that it is futile. The answers to the questions in the first post of this thread were in other threads of the forum; the answer about how to get to the archives is in the BN page when you first enter. You have to make a judgment call using your pla-dar. Is the post bait? Or is it a newbie? If a newbie, they will find the answers within one day of reading. It's their responsibility. When I said no one helped me I wasn't being bitter. It was simple fact. When I started frequenting the forum it was infested with PLA and ruled by them. All my comments were ignored. That was a clue that no one here (since they were all flaming each other and ignoring serious posts) cared about the case. But I persevered and I eventually learned to tell the real posts from the fake. And that is all you can do if you enter late (anytime after February). ------------------------------------------------------------ Posted by: to: sigh E-mail: still here Location: ... Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 Your post above should be read and taken to heart by all who visit this forum. ...agreeing with you again :) ------------------------------------------------------------ Posted by: some references E-mail: Location: Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 an example of RBCP's "zine" in early format: http://home1.swipnet.se/~w-19872/files/phreak/pla/PLA028.TXT another crudely typed RBCP zine from 1995 (There are many more on these 2 domain names): http://techline.com/~tlove/secret/pla025.txt Colleen's main site: http://www.bright.net/~bac/colleen.htm LogicBox's web page: http://logic.dynamik.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------ Posted by: Lil Bird E-mail: Location: 3:30 p.m. Texas time Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 Agree with the above posters however we are giving them more importance than they deserve by posting on this thread. Rule # 1 The PLA is not important and it is synonomous with the SLA in my mind. ------------------------------------------------------------ Posted by: 'Ol Hippy E-mail: from Location: the 60's Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 sorry 'lil bird, disagree...the SLA didn't hide behind VDT's. ------------------------------------------------------------ Posted by: Cyber imps are here again E-mail: o Location: o Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 The post above was not from Detective X. Detective X can spell. ------------------------------------------------------------ Posted by: SIGH E-mail: SIGH Location: SIGH Posted on: Saturday August 30, 1997 do you realize how many times you use "I". It's readily recognizable who you think highly of.