         THE LARRY NICHOLS INTERVIEW WITH GEORGE PUTNAM

               March 9, 1994, 1 PM, on KIEV 870 AM


PUTNAM:   Thus far in our investigation of the Whitewater situation
          and the death of [Vincent] Foster, we've presented
          exclusive interviews with Chris Ruddy of the New York
          Post--two such interviews--one with Jerry Seeper of the
          Washington Times, one with Judge [Jim] Johnson, who is
          the former Supreme Court justice in the State of
          Arkansas, and Larry Nichols of the ADFA, and in answer to
          your requests, we're going to repeat yesterday's
          interview with Larry Nichols, the former director of
          marketing for the ADFA, the Arkansas Development Finance
          Authority.  So let's listen to that now.

[Tape begins]

PUTNAM:   This is George Putnam here.

NICHOLS:  How do you do, Mr. Putnam.  Thank you for having me.

PUTNAM:   And I want to tell you that I've been in touch on the
          full story.  Chris Ruddy twice, New York Post, Jerry
          Seeper, Washington Times, Judge Johnson, whom I believe
          you know.

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir, I've worked with all of those men.

PUTNAM:   You have.  And now I've come to you, sir.  And I want to
          ask you right off the top, who you are, what you are, and
          a little bit of your background.

NICHOLS:  Well, first off, I was the marketing director of the
          Arkansas Development Finance Authority, which you
          announced.  What most people don't know is the Arkansas
          Development Finance Authority, which started in 1985,
          right when the Whitewater development and the Madison
          Trust folded.  Clinton had to have a new way to channel
          monies to FOBs or Friends of Bill.  I went to work there
          in 1988, and my job was to put out fires.  My job was to
          make sure if the media caught hold of anything to put it
          out.  And it wasn't long, maybe a month or so after I was
          there, I realized I was in the middle--or epicenter, if
          you will--of his political machine.  He was using that
          agency to pass out monies to his friends.  

          To interest your listeners, the very first loan at ADFA
          was made to one Seth Ward, Web Hubbell's stepfather.  And
          the secretary-treasurer was Web Hubbell himself.  So it
          was a very bad situation.  I came to grips with what I
          was involved with.  They knew I was going to go.  So they
          spent the majority of 1988 after September trying to
          roast me, to discredit me because of all that I had
          obtained while was at ADFA.  

          In 1990, I filed a lawsuit, which was squashed, as normal
          in Arkansas court.  Anybody in Arkansas court has to face
          "Clinton law." which we're facing now, by the way, with
          Robert Fisk.  And the day he squashed my case and sealed
          it, I transferred it to the federal court.  I knew he
          [Clinton] was running for President in 1992, because in
          1988, I developed his platform for general obligation
          bonds for his higher education standards package.  And I
          knew if I kept my suit alive until 1992, he would be the
          focus of the media.  Now, that suit brought forth
          Gennifer Flowers.  That's where that story came from.  In
          the 1990 lawsuit was Whitewater, was ADFA--the whole nine
          yards.  The reporters laughed at me in '92.  And today,
          as you may know, I get 40 to 50 phone calls from
          reporters every day wanting to know what's next.  I've
          worked on, helped introduce, and brought forth the paper
          shedding documents, the false autopsy.  And not to break
          my word to a couple of reporters, but the Wall Street
          Journal and Newsweek magazine will be breaking a story in
          about a week referenced to ADFA and a bogus bond deal
          that was made in Boston, one in which I sat in on the
          meetings.  And that will start to fall--

PUTNAM:   But you know, Larry--Larry Nichols, of course there are
          those listening saying, "Oh, what the hell.  He has an ax
          to grind."  And they've said the same thing about the two
          state troopers who covered for Bill Clinton and
          apparently arranged for some of the sexual liaisons in
          which he was involved.

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir.

PUTNAM:   They say that about reporters.  I have callers who say,
          "You're bashing Clinton again."  I'm going to tell you
          right here and now, sir, that this thing has developed to
          the point where it's above individuals and personalities. 
          It's above a Chris Ruddy of the New York Post, above
          Jerry Seeper of the Washington Times, above Judge
          Johnson, above Larry Nichols, and the rest.  And now the
          national press reluctantly, having dragged its feet, has
          now been forced into this situation, and the stories are
          beginning to develop.  And when the President of the
          United States has to stand up and defend the integrity of
          his wife before the public, I think we're in one hell of
          a mess in the United States of America.

NICHOLS:  Absolutely!  And I'd like to share with your listeners--I
          had a reporter in from England that was fixing to
          interview last week a person that was going to tell a
          story or tell his side of the story between Clinton and
          a drug cartel in Hot Springs [Arkansas].  He was gunned
          down the night before the meeting.

PUTNAM:   Wait a minute, wait a minute!  

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir.  There are 22 mysterious deaths--now, 23--

PUTNAM:   What about the person who was clubbed almost to death
          because he had a video tape of Clinton visiting Gennifer
          Flowers?

NICHOLS:  That was my attorney!  [Laughs.]  

PUTNAM:   Is he alive?

NICHOLS:  He's alive, but he was left for dead.  And they came in,
          broke into his apartment, and got the video tape.  I will
          tell your listeners, I have been forced now to start
          wearing a bulletproof vest because the national media
          have reason to believe that I am high on the list of
          people that are fixing to disappear.  All I ask your
          listeners to do, if anything happens to me--  It doesn't
          matter about me, but we've got to get a Congressional
          hearing, and this man's got to be driven out of office. 
          You know, Khrushchev said we'd be destroyed from within. 
          This is the battle he was talking about.

PUTNAM:   What was the real reason, do you think, for Vincent
          Foster's death?

NICHOLS:  Well, Vince Foster did not commit suicide.  Vince
          Foster's autopsy showed that there was no smoke or powder
          burns on the tongue, the teeth, the lips.  They can't
          find the bullet--yet there's no exit hole.  He was laid
          in a prone position, like he was in a casket, with the
          gun still in his hand.  I have talked to national
          forensics experts that handle these [deaths] all the
          time.  They say there's an involuntary movement when a
          person commits suicide, shooting himself in the head. 
          The gun goes 15 to 20 feet away [from the body].  The
          puddle of blood means that his heart was not pumping when
          he was laid in the park.  And that [puddle] was just
          gravity clearing out what little was left.  Vince Foster
          was killed--I say--was killed--

PUTNAM:   Why?  Why?

NICHOLS:  He knew a couple of things.  Number one, Vince and
          Hillary had an affair.  It's a long-standing affair.  I
          knew about it.  I had audio tapes in reference to it.

PUTNAM:   Wait a minute!  You have audio tapes on an affair between
          Foster and Hillary?

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir.

PUTNAM:   Audio tapes?

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir.

PUTNAM:   Are they existent?

NICHOLS:  Since I'm being sought after, I will say this.  I don't
          know where they are, but I bet I can find them at the
          right time.

PUTNAM:   You can?

NICHOLS:  If that makes sense.

PUTNAM:   And will they be subpoenaed?

NICHOLS:  If Mr. Fisk subpoenas me--excuse me for saying this--but
          I will tell him flatly to go to hell.

PUTNAM:   Really?

NICHOLS:  I will not cooperate.  They can put me in jail.  They can
          do what they want to.  I will not participate in that
          sham.

PUTNAM:   Well, do you mean Fisk is not to be trusted on this?

NICHOLS:  Not at all.  That's a part of a program we developed for
          Clinton back in the 1980's called "Rope-A-Dope":  Back
          off, let the media hit you, pull back, look like you're
          dying, set up your own court situation, get all the
          information inside the court, then squash it, seal it. 
          As you'll know, Fisk is sealing everything that's coming
          in.  We're not allowed to see any of it.

PUTNAM:   Why is it, though, that he did put out subpoenas on nine
          individuals, top level in the White House?

NICHOLS:  To get them to quit talking.  He's going to people right
          now, the people that shredded documents that I talked to. 
          He's going to everybody, subpoenaing them, taking their
          statements, and then putting a gag order on them, telling
          them not to talk.

PUTNAM:             Now let me ask you a question here that is not--I brought
          it forth yesterday, but I didn't get a satisfactory
          answer:  Is this 18-year-old Lindsey, a courier, the son
          of Lindsey, who's the closest associate with Hillary
          Clinton?

NICHOLS:  [He] is not.

PUTNAM:   Oh, that just happens to be a [coincidental] name?

NICHOLS:  Right.

PUTNAM:   Just coincidence.

NICHOLS:  Just coincidence.

PUTNAM:   All right.  Now, getting back to the Foster death, I
          talked of course at great length with Chris Ruddy about
          the fact that the Park Police took no photos, that there
          was no fiber examination, which is typical when you have
          a situation like this.

NICHOLS:  Right.

PUTNAM:   They did not check the shoes [to see] if he had walked
          any distance there, there would have been some matter on
          the shoes.  They did not go into the tissue or the blood-
-or the possibility of poison or asphyxiation.  They
          didn't go into the fact that rigor mortis was either
          delayed or strangely not present.  Other conditions of
          the body--I don't know how they could get around the FBI
          on this, do you?

NICHOLS:  Well, let me you another little thing that you didn't
          know.

PUTNAM:   Yes?

NICHOLS:  One of the investigators for the Park Police was a Lt. or
          Capt. Haas.  He talked to me relative to the tapes I
          have--H-A-A-S.  A lady on Clinton's administration, high
          up in--over his welfare program, or whatever, her name is
          Haas, H-A-A-S.

PUTNAM:   Uh-oh, uh-oh.

NICHOLS:  You see, with Clinton it's called the "circle of power"--

PUTNAM:   Well, wait a minute.  Are they married or brother-and-
sister, or how is that association.

NICHOLS:            They're married.

PUTNAM:   They are married.

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir.

PUTNAM:   And he was one of the Park policemen?

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir.

PUTNAM:   And she is who again?

NICHOLS:  She's over like their welfare or their homeless program,
          but she's high up in his administration--high enough up
          that she will do his bidding.  I'll tell you another one. 
          A lady that works in the White House told me--and I have
          good sources in the White House--told me that the day
          Vince Foster killed himself, that day he was running up
          and down the halls, whistling and singing, invited her 
          to lunch.  She could not go.  And he was in the best of
          spirits.  Now, he supposedly killed himself at one
          o'clock.  She says there was no way he was depressed.

PUTNAM:   Where was he for the three hours that we cannot account
          for?

NICHOLS:  I have no earthly idea, but inside sources of mine in the
          White House tell me that if we would do a microanalysis
          of his office, we would find bloodstains in his office.

PUTNAM:   In his office?

NICHOLS:  In--his--office.

PUTNAM:   Are you indicating that he might have been killed in his
          office at the White House?

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir, I am.

PUTNAM:   And that the body was then removed.

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir, I am.

PUTNAM:   And why don't we have, if this is conspiracy--you know
          conspiracy breaks down if there's more than one person
          involved.  Where are all these people, and will they
          talk?

NICHOLS:  Well, as you know, everybody in the world is scared to
          death.  This man is an evil man.  He controls an evil
          society.  It's going to be tough to get people to talk. 
          Let me give one that can sort of prove that Fisk is a
          sham.  I've had a lawsuit standing since 1990 with
          ethics.  Guess who's the one person that has not been
          subpoenaed--me.  You know why?  Because if they subpoena
          me, then I'll fight 'em, and it'll be brought forth.

PUTNAM:   All right.  Now tell me about the shredding of the
          material.  Was it at the direction of Hillary?

NICHOLS:  One shredding--well, there were three shreddings that I
          knew about.  One was at the end of the New York primary,
          where Vince Foster and Web Hubbell came down, told the
          people that we may have a Democratic nominee for
          President.  And they ordered documents to be shredded. 
          That was after the New York primary.

PUTNAM:   What documents?  The Whitewater documents?

NICHOLS:  The Whitewater documents.  Yes, sir.  After the election,
          Hillary went over to the guard house, to the governor's
          mansion, got all the phone logs, got all the bad
          information, took it over, hand-carried it, and gave it
          to a couple of guys to be shredded.  And they shredded
          that information.  Then, after Foster died--and all of
          this stuff comes out--Fisk issues a warning not to shred
          anything.  And as you know, Jerry Seeper, not last week,
          but the week before, caught them shredding documents that
          had Vince Foster's name on the box.

PUTNAM:   Who would benefit by Foster's death?

NICHOLS:  Well, you have to understand what Vince was involved in. 
          Number one, Travelgate.  Number two, he was involved--and
          this is my theory--he was involved with an insider
          trading deal on the pharmaceutical stocks.  Everybody
          knows how much stock Hillary bought short on when they
          were saying they were going to destroy the pharmaceutical
          industry.  Then, when they went to Tulsa [Oklahoma] to
          the governors' meeting, they weren't going to oppose the
          pharmaceutical industry, and the stock shot up--they made
          money twice.  

          What most people don't realize--and Vince made that buy
          also for her--what most people don't realize is how much
          the Stevens Investment firm invested in that thing.  And
          by controlling and regulating the stocks, knowing when
          they were going to talk bad about the pharmaceuticals, 
          and that they were going to eventually come out FOR them-
-that's insider trading.  And Vince Foster was in the
          middle of it, he was fixing to take a hit, he was fixing
          to take a fall.  And I don't think Vince was going to
          fall all the way by himself.

PUTNAM:   Can you tell me what the conversation consisted of
          between the President of the United States [and Foster]
          the night before his death?  That 20-minute conversation
          where Mrs. Foster was also present at the home--the call
          from the White House, from the President to Foster at his
          home.  What was all that about?  I have a source that
          tells me it was an extremely acrimonious conversation.

NICHOLS:  That I have no personal knowledge of.

PUTNAM:   Would the President be in the position of telling Foster
          that Hillary was not going to take the fall on this one?

NICHOLS:  Let me say this.  As you know, the team that went in
          [Foster's office] after his death was Nussbaum,
          Nussbaum's personal secretary, Hillary Clinton's personal
          secretary--

PUTNAM:   What was she going there?

NICHOLS:  She was--  Nussbaum and Nussbaum's secretary were there
          specifically for one reason:  to get all Whitewater, all
          ADFA, all illegal activity picked up and covered. 
          Hillary's secretary was there for one reason:  to get
          love notes, anything in reference to their affair.  Patsy
          Thomason, who was the chief assistant for Dan Lassiter,
          the bondsman that went to jail for cocaine with Roger
          Clinton, believe it or not, is the assistant chief of
          management at the White House.  She was there to make
          sure all fingerprints and everything were wiped clean.

PUTNAM:   You know, this takes my breath away.  If only half of
          what you're saying is true, this is not only scurrilous, 
          it is scandalous and unbelievable and without precedent
          in the White House.

NICHOLS:  Absolutely.  And what is so funny now--and you must allow
          me to gloat just a little--the media laughed at me.  Now,
          every day a new media calls--NBC, ABC, CBS, you name it,
          they call me.  And I assign them new stories and new
          directions to go.

PUTNAM:   Give me a very quick indication--just touch on it so I
          won't be completely in the dark as to the story that's
          going to break in the Wall Street Journal.

NICHOLS:  The Wall Street Journal and Newsweek--there was a
          consultant, his name was Mark Ferber, who was hired by
          ADFA while I was there.  He was paid an exorbitant fee--I
          mean hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Will Nepps [?],
          the president while I was there, was never at ADFA.  He
          was always in Boston.  And they propagated and put
          together a bond deal that'll make Clinton about three
          million bucks and [for] his cronies, FOBs.  Now, not to
          mention the fact when I was there, I was called numerous
          times by Bob Nash, who's now Under Secretary of
          Agriculture, who was the second-in-command under Clinton
          as governor to transfer travel monies from ADFA funds,
          five to ten thousand at a time, into Clinton's travel
          fund to go to see his ladies.  He went to see Liz Ward in
          California, Lynn Cobel Sullivan in New York.

PUTNAM:   Do you know of the story concerning De Pew, the beauty
          contest winner?  

NICHOLS:  I'm sorry?

PUTNAM:   De Pew, the beauty contest winner in Arkansas?

NICHOLS:  [I] do not.

PUTNAM:   Do you know of this lady, whose name has most recently 
          appeared in the [American] Spectator, Paula Jones?

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir.  I do.

PUTNAM:   Now, can you verify that story?

NICHOLS:  That is absolutely true, as has been testified to.  And 
          I have the statements of other troopers, not just the
          ones that have been mentioned.

PUTNAM:   All right, now.  Is her husband going to sue the
          President as he said he would?

NICHOLS:  I doubt [if] he does.  I want him to.  I wish he would,
          but he won't.  The threat in Arkansas is too serious. 
          The threat around the nation is too serious.  [If] you
          oppose him, you're going to get destroyed just like I
          was.

PUTNAM:   Well, I want to say this to this audience.  Larry Nichols
          is speaking, of course, as the former director of
          marketing for ADFA, Arkansas Finance Development
          Authority.  You are not hearing a report from the
          National Enquirer or Star or any of the other tabloids. 
          You're hearing actual reports from Chris Ruddy of the New
          York Post on two occasions, Jerry Seeper of the
          Washington Times on one occasion, Judge Johnson, a former 
          head of your Supreme Court in Arkansas, and now Mr. Larry
          Nichols, the former director of marketing.  And these are
          first-person accounts.  I want this audience to
          understand that thoroughly.

NICHOLS:  If I may, let me give you one other thing you'll be
          hearing about.

PUTNAM:   All right.

NICHOLS:  When Whitewater and Madison Trust were dissolved by the
          RTC [Resolution Trust Corporation, the entity created to
          manage the S&L crisis], guess who became the majority
          stockholder of the new bank that was formed?

PUTNAM:   Hmm.

NICHOLS:  Seth Ward.

PUTNAM:   I see.

NICHOLS:  And that will be coming out within the next few days.

PUTNAM:   Larry Nichols, may I stay in touch with you?  And may we
          continue this story, and I know that you have 40 to 50
          reporters on your tail.  I wonder if anyone else from Los
          Angeles has bothered to call you because I have been a
          lone figure in this expose from the beginning.  And I
          cannot believe that channels 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 [Los
          Angeles TV stations] haven't done an in-depth report. 
          The same sources are available to them and to radio as
          are available to George Putnam.  I'm a 60-year veteran in
          this business.  I have no ax to grind.  I'm trying to get
          to the bottom of the story as I trust you are.

NICHOLS:  Yes, sir.  Mr. Putnam, can I do one thing?

PUTNAM:   Yes.

NICHOLS:  We made a video, and it's call "Clinton's Circle of
          Power."  As you know, in the limited time we've had here,
          it's very difficult for my story to be told in total.

PUTNAM:   All right, tell us.

NICHOLS:  It's 1-800-633-0869.  Now, I make nothing off that tape.

PUTNAM:   Give us the number again.

NICHOLS:  1-800-633-0869.  And it's important.

PUTNAM:   What is the cost for that tape?
NICHOLS:            I think it's $19.95, and it's from a group called
          Citizens For Honesty In Government, and if your people
          and listeners will get a copy of that tape, watch it,
          then call their congressman and senators, and demand a
          Congressional hearing.  That's all I want.

PUTNAM:   Final statement or final question.  Do you think as
          things heat up on all of this, that Hillary's going to
          take the fall on this, take the drop on the whole thing?

NICHOLS:  Absolutely.  She'll go first, but I will say this and
          make this promise to you, a pledge I made to Ira
          Silverman of NBC in 1992:  In the year 1994, I--and
          anyone who wants to follow me--will march up the steps of
          the White House, and we'll plant the American flag, and
          we'll take back the Capitol from Bill Clinton and his
          evil society.  And I promise you that, hopefully, within
          four months.

PUTNAM:   Larry Nichols, I want to thank you for this exclusive
          report.  I'll be in touch with you again, sir.

NICHOLS:  Thank you, Mr. Putnam.

[Tape ends.]

PUTNAM:   All right.  There you have the exclusive interview which
          I made yesterday with Larry Nichols, the former director
          of marketing for the ADFA, Arkansas Finance Development
          Authority.  And there were many questions included that
          I didn't get around to, asking--  Perhaps you have some
          of those, or you have counterstatements to make
          concerning the work I've been doing on this overall, with
          Chris Ruddy of the New York Post on two occasions, Jerry
          Seeper of the Washington Times, Judge Johnson, the former
          Supreme Court justice of the State of Arkansas, or this
          most recent interview with Larry Nichols, I'd like to
          hear from you.

