From majordomo@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 10 11:14:12 1993 Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10641; Wed, 10 Feb 93 11:14:12 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 11:14:12 -0800 Message-Id: <9302101914.AA10641@shivafs.cac.washington.edu> To: pine-info-arch@cac.washington.edu From: Majordomo@cac.washington.edu Subject: Welcome to pine-info Reply-To: Majordomo@cac.washington.edu Errors-To: Majoromo-Owner@cac.washington.edu Status: O X-Status: Welcome to the pine-info mailing list! If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, send the following command in email to "Majordomo@cac.washington.edu": unsubscribe pine-info pine-info-arch@cac.washington.edu Here's the general information for the list you've subscribed to, in case you don't already have it: Pine-Info Mailing List ---------------------- Pine-Info is a mailing list for the email program Pine. The mailing list includes discussion of Pine features, bugs, tricks, etc. Often technical and installation questions appear on the list. New releases, fixes and version of Pine are announced on the pine-info mailing list. For general information about Pine itself you can ftp the file pine.blurb from ftp.cac.washington.edu. Owners of this mailing list can be contacted at owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Jan 29 10:38:04 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17742; Fri, 29 Jan 93 10:38:04 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23260; Fri, 29 Jan 93 10:31:37 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csd4.csd.uwm.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23252; Fri, 29 Jan 93 10:31:32 -0800 Received: by csd4.csd.uwm.edu; id AA22052; Fri, 29 Jan 93 12:31:27 -0600 Date: Fri, 29 Jan 1993 12:29:44 -0600 (CST) From: David A Rasmussen Subject: Novice user documentation? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: I just sent in a request to be added to the pine mailing list, which I'm not on yet, but I was wondering if any sites had any user documentation on using pine, like a short descriptive session (on paper) to get in and out of it to send and receive mail, or anything else in addition to this. Please cc to my address if you follow this up to the group. Thanks! Dave Rasmussen - SysAdm/Hacker/Consulting Manager, UWM Computing Svcs Div. Internet:dave@uwm.edu, Uucp:uwm!dave, Bitnet:dave%uwm.edu@INTERBIT AT&T:414-229-5133 USmail:Box 413 EMS380,Milwaukee,WI 53201 HAM: N9REJ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 3 11:46:51 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20307; Wed, 3 Feb 93 11:46:51 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29322; Wed, 3 Feb 93 11:37:13 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from opus.csd.uwm.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29316; Wed, 3 Feb 93 11:37:10 -0800 Received: by opus.csd.uwm.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA01422; Wed, 3 Feb 1993 13:37:06 -0600 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 13:37:06 -0600 From: dave@opus.csd.uwm.edu (Dave Rasmussen) Message-Id: <9302031937.AA01422@opus.csd.uwm.edu> To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Pine on a Convex? Status: O X-Status: Has anyone configured pine for a convex? We have a C220 running ConvexOS 10.0.3 which is sort of a bsdish thing with ansi c. I tried using the BSD and the ult configurations and it looks pretty ugly in error messages so far. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 3 20:07:55 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03214; Wed, 3 Feb 93 20:07:55 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03435; Wed, 3 Feb 93 19:58:26 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sun.stats.umanitoba.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03429; Wed, 3 Feb 93 19:58:24 -0800 Received: by sun.stats.umanitoba.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21157; Wed, 3 Feb 93 21:55:50 CST From: yeung@sun.stats.umanitoba.ca (Shu Kai Yeung) Message-Id: <9302040355.AA21157@sun.stats.umanitoba.ca> Subject: Sun3/60 installation To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu (pine information) Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 21:55:49 -0600 (CST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 293 Status: O X-Status: I am in the process of installing the new version of pine on our Sun3/60 machine running SunOS4.1. I got compilation error. Would someone suggest modifications so that I can put new one in the system. We had an old version which has no problem on compilation I must have missed something. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 4 06:26:54 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11128; Thu, 4 Feb 93 06:26:54 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07823; Thu, 4 Feb 93 06:19:17 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from research1.bryant.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07817; Thu, 4 Feb 93 06:19:14 -0800 Received: by research1.bryant.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA10341; Thu, 4 Feb 1993 09:13:57 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 09:10:37 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Frazier Subject: Is this possible? To: pine-info Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: One of our professors, Crystal Packer, forwarded the following message to me. She said that it was sent to her from one of her students... but Crystal Packer's userid appears in both the "From:" and "To:" fields. Is this possible? Steve ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1993 10:43:43 -0500 (EST) From: Crystal Packer To: Crystal Packer Subject: Hi Alright we are trying this again. Lets hope that this works. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 4 09:42:13 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15473; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:42:13 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09366; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:34:18 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from noc.sura.net by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09360; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:34:16 -0800 Received: from nalusda.gov by noc.sura.net with SMTP for pine-info@cac.washington.edu (5.65b/(SURAnet $Revision: 1.29 $)) id AA05110; Thu, 4 Feb 93 12:34:03 -0500 Received: by nalusda.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08029; Thu, 4 Feb 93 12:34:10 EST Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 12:34:09 -0500 (EST) From: Greg Dobrich Subject: viewing long headers To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Status: O X-Status: Hi folks, Is there a way to view unshortened mail headers within Pine? Thanks, Greg +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Greg Dobrich National Agricultural Library + + gdobrich@nalusda.gov Information Systems Division + + 301/504-6813 Beltsville, MD 20705 + +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 4 14:21:55 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22275; Thu, 4 Feb 93 14:21:55 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09673; Thu, 4 Feb 93 14:07:54 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from [134.174.99.10] by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09667; Thu, 4 Feb 93 14:07:52 -0800 Received: by columbus.bwh.harvard.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03556; Thu, 4 Feb 93 17:07:49 EST Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 17:05:03 -0500 (EST) From: "Peter W. Karlson" Subject: ^C on a Mac To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: I know I've heard about this before but I need to ask again, is there a problem using NCSA telnet on a Mac and trying to cancel a message using control C?? Thanks -pk From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 5 06:05:09 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07937; Fri, 5 Feb 93 06:05:09 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14552; Fri, 5 Feb 93 05:55:48 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from starburst.umd.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14546; Fri, 5 Feb 93 05:55:46 -0800 Received: by starburst.umd.edu (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0) id AA02309; Fri, 5 Feb 93 08:54:02 EST From: jon@starburst.umd.edu (Jonathan Kruger) Message-Id: <9302051354.AA02309@starburst.umd.edu> Subject: Problem using MIME attachments To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 8:54:01 EST Organization: Chesapeake Biological Laboratory X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: O X-Status: Why is it that when I send a NeXT WordPerfect document or a .GIF file as a MIME attachment it works, but if I send a WP5.1 or .TIFF file the attachment only contains a few bytes like "II*" and nothing else? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Kruger "If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier jon@starburst.umd.edu about cutting them down? We might, if they Chesapeake Biological Lab screamed all the time, for no good reason." From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 5 06:48:06 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08400; Fri, 5 Feb 93 06:48:06 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16842; Fri, 5 Feb 93 06:36:58 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from research1.bryant.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16836; Fri, 5 Feb 93 06:36:56 -0800 Received: by research1.bryant.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA00297; Fri, 5 Feb 1993 09:31:37 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 09:30:48 -0500 (EST) From: "Stephen L. Frazier" Subject: Problem using MIME attachments (fwd) To: pine-info Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: I've encountered similar problems on DEC 5000 systems. Steve ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 5 Feb 93 8:54:01 EST From: Jonathan Kruger To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Problem using MIME attachments Why is it that when I send a NeXT WordPerfect document or a .GIF file as a MIME attachment it works, but if I send a WP5.1 or .TIFF file the attachment only contains a few bytes like "II*" and nothing else? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Kruger "If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier jon@starburst.umd.edu about cutting them down? We might, if they Chesapeake Biological Lab screamed all the time, for no good reason." From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Feb 8 12:31:58 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16146; Mon, 8 Feb 93 12:31:58 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07732; Mon, 8 Feb 93 12:19:14 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uu3.psi.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07726; Mon, 8 Feb 93 12:19:12 -0800 Received: from tsh.UUCP by uu3.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA24456 for ; Mon, 8 Feb 93 15:07:27 -0500 From: tsh!frank@uu3.psi.com (Frank Mostek) Received: by tsh.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/3.1.090690-The Systems House) id AA32745; Mon, 8 Feb 1993 13:21:42 -0600 Message-Id: <9302081921.AA32745@tsh.com> Subject: Re: ADDS VP emulation (fwd), anyone? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Mon, 8 Feb 93 13:21:41 CST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: O X-Status: Has anyone succeeded in ADDS VP emulation with the pico editor? : Forwarded message: >From uucp Sat Feb 6 20:26:37 1993 >Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 21:10:13 -0500 (EST) >From: Laurence Lundblade >Subject: Re: ADDS VP emulation >To: Frank Mostek >Cc: pine@cac.washington.edu >In-Reply-To: <9302052203.AA31487@tsh.com> >Message-Id: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII > >Ooo, yucky terminals that do that. You can never get is working completely >I think. Some one has fixed things up for this, but I can't remember who. >You might try asking on pine-info@cac.washington.edu. > >LL > >On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Frank Mostek wrote: > >> We have just downloaded pine3.05 and installed on our RS6000 running >> AIX 3.2.something with very few problems. Good job! It works great, >> however.... ( I love that word :-) >> Several people in our company have/use ADDS VP (viewpoint) terminal >> emulation. Unfortunately, viewpoints do not generate [ESC] sequence with >> the arrow keys, HOME, etc.... For example, up arrow generates a ^Z, >> down arrow is ^J, etc.... Pico assumes that these keys begin with [ESC] >> (estruct.h:#define METACH 0x1B /* M- prefix, Control-[, ESC */ >> Before I go hacking away, I want to see if you knew about this and had >> an easy fix. >> Thanx for any help >> -- >> ______ ______ Frank Mostek (fmostek@tsh.com) >> / / / / Technology Consultant (708)390-6300 >> / /_____ /____/ The Systems House, Inc Fax: (708)803-4306 >> / / / / 10500 Lunt Avenue >> / _____/ / / Rosemont, IL 60018 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Feb 8 15:46:33 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22174; Mon, 8 Feb 93 15:46:33 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09832; Mon, 8 Feb 93 15:39:31 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from nhmpw2.fnal.gov by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09826; Mon, 8 Feb 93 15:39:28 -0800 Received: by nhmpw2.fnal.gov id AA06347 (5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Mon, 8 Feb 1993 17:38:50 -0600 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 17:38:50 -0600 From: "David E. Martin" Message-Id: <199302082338.AA06347@nhmpw2.fnal.gov> To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Message ID Cc: connie@hep.net, dingbaum@hep.net Status: O X-Status: I'm having a problem with the Message-ID: header line. Message IDs should have the form Message-Id: but since I have my Sun hosts yp database set up as ... 131.225.40.41 nhmpw2 nhmpw2.hep.net ... I get Message-Id: I have user-domain=hep.net in my pine.conf file, but it seems to be ignored when constructing message IDs. I have temporarily fixed the problem by re-ordering the entries in the hosts yp database to be ... 131.225.40.41 nhmpw2.hep.net nhmpw2 ... but this breaks other things, like bootparams, which now seems to demand entries have fully qualified domain names. Any ideas? David E. Martin National HEPnet Management || Phone: +1 708 840-8275 Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory || FAX: +1 708 840-8463 P.O. Box 500, MS 368; Batavia, IL 60510 USA / \ E-Mail: dem@hep.net From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Feb 9 12:24:38 1993 Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14032; Tue, 9 Feb 93 12:24:38 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from techbook.TECHBOOK.COM by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14026; Tue, 9 Feb 93 12:24:35 -0800 Received: by techbook.techbook.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.28.1 #28.1) id ; Tue, 9 Feb 93 12:24 PST Message-Id: From: mikes@techbook.com (Mike Scheuerman) Subject: Global Address books To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 12:23:57 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL12] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1093 Status: O X-Status: We are just installing Pine and most of our users are novices and so are having a problem with building and maintaining their address books. Has anyone come up with a solution that allows someone to access a global address book as well as a personal addressbook? Part of the problem we have here is that we have people scattered geographically around the country and as they come online, they're not aware of the other users that are on the system already. We've discussed putting together a shell script that would run around and fix up everybody's addressbook as we put new people on the system, but that seems like a pain. The other idea is to send a message to everyon telling them that a new set of users has been added, but then some won't update their address book and we'll be right back where we started from. Over time the problem will get worse as people come and go. The documentation that I've read on Pine says that it doesn't support a global address book, but there's got to be a way to keep people up to date on who they can mail to. Any suggestions? Mike Scheuerman From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Feb 9 21:50:56 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26329; Tue, 9 Feb 93 21:50:56 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19287; Tue, 9 Feb 93 21:41:10 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19281; Tue, 9 Feb 93 21:41:08 -0800 Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9225>; Wed, 10 Feb 1993 00:41:00 -0500 Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03501; Wed, 10 Feb 93 00:42:44 EST Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 00:41:45 -0500 From: Ian Lumb Subject: Re: Global Address books To: PINE INFO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: This is a terrific idea Mike, that I'd also like to see added/kludged into pine. Ian. -- Ian Lumb Internet: Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 10 02:06:50 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00120; Wed, 10 Feb 93 02:06:50 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23363; Wed, 10 Feb 93 01:57:01 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23357; Wed, 10 Feb 93 01:56:58 -0800 Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA09312; Wed, 10 Feb 93 01:56:47 -0800 Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391); id AA08211; Wed, 10 Feb 1993 10:56:40 +0100 Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391); id AA01369; Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:58:44 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:58:44 +0100 From: donze@nova15.vbo.dec.com (Francois Donze) Message-Id: <9302100958.AA01369@nova15.vbo.dec.com> To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: can't send mails anymore Cc: donze@nova15.vbo.dec.com Status: O X-Status: I am running pine on Ultrix and something very strange happenned: I don't know why but the Suid and Sgid bits of /usr/bin/mail and /usr/ucb/mail disappeared and I could not receive any mail nor send any. I chmoded them back to 6755 and now I can receive mails and send mails using /usr/ucb/mail but if I send a mail through pine, pine says "mail sent" and I get the following message in /usr/spool/mqueue/syslog and the mail is lost: Feb 10 09:30:36 localhost: 1300 sendmail: NOQUEUE: SYSERR: queuename: Cannot create "qf~Z01300" in "/usr/spool/mqueue": No such file or directory Of course, /usr/spool/mqueue exists .... I think that there is a bad protection somewhere. I checked /usr/spool/mail which is drwxrwxrwt. Any idea? /francois From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 10 02:18:56 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00258; Wed, 10 Feb 93 02:18:56 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23443; Wed, 10 Feb 93 02:13:03 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mts-gw.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23437; Wed, 10 Feb 93 02:12:22 -0800 Received: by mts-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA03401; Wed, 10 Feb 93 02:10:34 -0800 Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391); id AA08229; Wed, 10 Feb 1993 11:07:46 +0100 Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391); id AA01407; Wed, 10 Feb 93 11:09:50 +0100 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 11:08:02 +0100 (French Winter) From: Francois Donze Subject: Re: can't send mails anymore To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: (null) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: I got it: The sendmail program lost its suid bit as well ..... It seems to work now. /francois From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 10 09:43:32 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07518; Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:43:32 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26238; Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:32:45 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from noc.sura.net by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26232; Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:32:44 -0800 Received: from nalusda.gov by noc.sura.net with SMTP for pine-info@cac.washington.edu (5.65b/(SURAnet $Revision: 1.29 $)) id AA03339; Wed, 10 Feb 93 12:32:42 -0500 Received: by nalusda.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23203; Wed, 10 Feb 93 12:32:50 EST Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:28:53 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Feidt Subject: Re: Global Address books To: PINE INFO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: I believe that option 1 would be of significant value to our organization. If tying it to option 2 keeps it lower on the "TuIt" list, then I'd vote for divide and conquer. *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* | Bill Feidt | National Agricultural Library | | wfeidt@nalusda.gov | Information Systems Division | | 301/504-6813 | Beltsville, MD 20705 | *=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=* On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote: > Ian and Mike, > Some form of shared address book is definitely on the enhancement list... > We just need someone to give us one of those "Round TuIt" things :) > > One question is whether this should be a simple extension to the personal > address book (but searched *after* the personal one, or whether it should > be an interface to whois/x.500/etc, or are both mechanisms desirable? I > suspect the answer is "both", but comments are welcome. (Obviously the > former is easier than the latter and would therefore be likely to appear > sooner!) From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 10 10:07:05 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08428; Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:07:05 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22827; Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:44:26 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22821; Wed, 10 Feb 93 09:44:23 -0800 Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9225>; Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:44:20 -0500 Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04307; Wed, 10 Feb 93 12:45:57 EST Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:34:21 -0500 From: Ian Lumb Subject: Re: Global Address books To: PINE INFO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Thanks for your response Terry. I'm pleased to hear that this is indeed a consideration for a future upgrade of pine. It is indeed desireable to have a global address book, that is simply an extension of the personal address book, but would be maintained by the local pine god. Ideally, your implementation would allow for cross-checking to avoid unwanted duplication. Since pine has already set a high networking standard by its implementation of imap, I would love to see this carried through in the form of your suggestion to use 'whois/x.500/etc'. It would be nice to see the first addition to a upcoming release of pine in the 'short term', but the fully networked version would be an exciting addition in the long-term. Ian. -- Ian Lumb Internet: Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote: > Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 08:05:21 -0800 (PST) > From: Terry Gray > To: Ian Lumb > Cc: PINE INFO > Subject: Re: Global Address books > > Ian and Mike, > Some form of shared address book is definitely on the enhancement list... > We just need someone to give us one of those "Round TuIt" things :) > > One question is whether this should be a simple extension to the personal > address book (but searched *after* the personal one, or whether it should > be an interface to whois/x.500/etc, or are both mechanisms desirable? I > suspect the answer is "both", but comments are welcome. (Obviously the > former is easier than the latter and would therefore be likely to appear > sooner!) > > -teg > > > On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Ian Lumb wrote: > > > This is a terrific idea Mike, that I'd also like to see added/kludged into > > pine. > > > > Ian. > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Ian Lumb Internet: > > Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University > > North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA > > Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 > > > > > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 3 13:46:24 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23664; Wed, 3 Feb 93 13:46:24 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02321; Wed, 3 Feb 93 13:37:36 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02315; Wed, 3 Feb 93 13:37:35 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA02953; Wed, 3 Feb 93 13:37:29 -0800 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA14378; Wed, 3 Feb 93 13:37:21 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1993 13:36:44 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: Pine on a Convex? To: Dave Rasmussen Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <9302031937.AA01422@opus.csd.uwm.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: If the Convex has an ANSI C compiler, try the NeXT, AIX, or A32 configurations and see if any of those get you any closer. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 4 01:00:16 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06897; Thu, 4 Feb 93 01:00:16 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06245; Thu, 4 Feb 93 00:53:16 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from convex.csc.fi by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06239; Thu, 4 Feb 93 00:53:13 -0800 Received: from tellus.csc.fi.csc.fi (tellus.csc.fi) by csc.fi with SMTP id AA24774 (5.65c8+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 4 Feb 1993 10:53:31 +0200 Received: from localhost.csc.fi by tellus.csc.fi.csc.fi (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00627; Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:53:06 +0200 Message-Id: <9302040853.AA00627@tellus.csc.fi.csc.fi> To: dave@opus.csd.uwm.edu (Dave Rasmussen) Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Re: Pine on a Convex? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Feb 1993 13:37:06 CST." <9302031937.AA01422@opus.csd.uwm.edu> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1993 10:53:04 +0200 From: Pekka Kytolaakso Status: O X-Status: Your message dated: Wed, 03 Feb 1993 13:37:06 CST > Has anyone configured pine for a convex? We have a C220 running > ConvexOS 10.0.3 which is sort of a bsdish thing with ansi c. I tried > using the BSD and the ult configurations and it looks pretty ugly in > error messages so far. I sent my convex patches to the development team and they should be in the next pine version. My port is available on nic.funet.fi:/pub/unix/convex/pine3.05.tar.Z. It's configured to work like elm (folders are in ~/Mail/, several folder name changes). To compile it use './build bsd'. Pekka Kyt|laakso --------------------------------------------------------------- netmgr@tellus.csc.fi Centre for Scientific Computing Pekka.Kytolaakso@csc.fi PL 40 SF-02101 Espoo FINLAND Phone: +358 0 4571 Telefax: + 358 0 4572302 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 4 10:02:13 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15867; Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:02:13 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09535; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:54:15 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from rainier.lib.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09529; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:54:14 -0800 Received: by rainier.lib.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.24 ) id AA08000; Thu, 4 Feb 93 09:54:11 -0800 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 09:52:40 -0800 (PST) From: Adam Garrett Subject: Re: viewing long headers To: Greg Dobrich Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Yes, change the line in your .pinerc like this: # "seedling", "sapling" or "old-growth" for novice, intermediate and advanced feature-level=old-growth Type 'h' while reading messages to toggle full header on or off. :-) Adam R. Garrett University of Washington Libraries INTERNET: garrett@lib.washington.edu 352 Suzzallo Library, FM-25 PHONE: (206) 543-8843 Seattle, WA 98195 FAX: (206) 685-8049 On Thu, 4 Feb 1993, Greg Dobrich wrote: > Hi folks, > > Is there a way to view unshortened mail headers within Pine? > > Thanks, > > Greg > > +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ > + Greg Dobrich National Agricultural Library + > + gdobrich@nalusda.gov Information Systems Division + > + 301/504-6813 Beltsville, MD 20705 + > +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 4 10:32:49 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16589; Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:32:49 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07802; Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:25:59 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from camelot.bradley.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07796; Thu, 4 Feb 93 10:25:56 -0800 Received: by camelot.bradley.edu id AA11738 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Thu, 4 Feb 1993 12:25:54 -0600 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 12:25:52 -0500 (CDT) From: Matt Simmons Reply-To: Matt Simmons Subject: Re: viewing long headers To: Greg Dobrich Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Thu, 4 Feb 1993, Greg Dobrich wrote: > Hi folks, > Is there a way to view unshortened mail headers within Pine? Put old-growth as the user level in your .pinerc file, and type 'h' while viewing the message.... From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 4 11:25:39 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17948; Thu, 4 Feb 93 11:25:39 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10320; Thu, 4 Feb 93 11:15:57 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from noc.sura.net by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10314; Thu, 4 Feb 93 11:15:55 -0800 Received: from nalusda.gov by noc.sura.net with SMTP for pine-info@cac.washington.edu (5.65b/(SURAnet $Revision: 1.29 $)) id AA06328; Thu, 4 Feb 93 14:15:54 -0500 Received: by nalusda.gov (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08369; Thu, 4 Feb 93 14:16:06 EST Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 14:16:05 -0500 (EST) From: Greg Dobrich Reply-To: Greg Dobrich Subject: Re: viewing long headers To: Adam Garrett Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Status: O X-Status: Adam, What version of Pine supports the feature-level entry? Thanks, Greg +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ + Greg Dobrich National Agricultural Library + + gdobrich@nalusda.gov Information Systems Division + + 301/504-6813 Beltsville, MD 20705 + +-----------------------------------------------------------------------------+ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 4 20:20:40 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00227; Thu, 4 Feb 93 20:20:40 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14318; Thu, 4 Feb 93 20:13:59 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14312; Thu, 4 Feb 93 20:13:57 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA28690; Thu, 4 Feb 1993 23:13:46 -0500 Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1993 23:13:12 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: ^C on a Mac To: "Peter W. Karlson" Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: The way around this problem is described in the help text off the main menu under frequently asked questions. I've tacked it on the end here. LL Page 8 5. If ^C Doesn't Work on a Mac There's a problem with the default configuration of the Macintosh version of NCSA telnet which prevents Control-Cs from reaching Pine. Under the "session menu", select "setup keys". There's you'll see an entry for ^C. You should make sure it's blank. If it's not, ^C won't work in Pine. This will fix it just for the current session. To make it permanent you have to edit the configuration file. You should add a line: localkeys=[0,19,17] (but use curly braces instead of []) somewhere after the line that contains "name=default". Also, on VersaTerm Pro a similar problem occurs where ^C causes a break to be sent on the modem or serial line. On Thu, 4 Feb 1993, Peter W. Karlson wrote: > I know I've heard about this before but I need to ask again, is there a > problem using NCSA telnet on a Mac and trying to cancel a message using > control C?? > > Thanks > > -pk > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 5 07:18:11 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09135; Fri, 5 Feb 93 07:18:11 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17012; Fri, 5 Feb 93 07:12:06 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from EMPIRE.CCE.CORNELL.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17006; Fri, 5 Feb 93 07:12:04 -0800 Received: by cce.cornell.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #4) id m0nKUiu-0001NeC; Fri, 5 Feb 93 10:12 EST Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 10:05:51 -0500 (EST) From: Ron Pool Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments To: Jonathan Kruger Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <9302051354.AA02309@starburst.umd.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Jonathan Kruger wrote: > Why is it that when I send a NeXT WordPerfect document or a .GIF file > as a MIME attachment it works, but if I send a WP5.1 or .TIFF file the > attachment only contains a few bytes like "II*" and nothing else? We just noticed this happen with a DOS WordPerfect 5.1 document here yesterday. I looked into why it was happening and decided that file_type() in pine/send.c was deciding it was quotable-text, when it wasn't. I'm not sure why, but for us encoding all enclosures as base64 works, so I replaced the call to file_type() with an assignment to the value IsBinary. This is a bad fix as it means some files that could have been directly viewable with MIME tools now won't be, but we had a couple of users who really needed to get going. I did notice while reading send.c that there are special checks for certain file types that just look for a signature of just a few characters at the beginning of a file to determine file type. This allows pine to recognize some certain files (GIF and TIFF in particular), but it's certainly possible for files to be recognized as being of a certain type when they're really not of that type. -- Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853 Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 5 11:45:55 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15806; Fri, 5 Feb 93 11:45:55 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17181; Fri, 5 Feb 93 11:35:33 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva1.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17175; Fri, 5 Feb 93 11:35:32 -0800 Received: by shiva1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00924; Fri, 5 Feb 93 11:35:30 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 10:21:48 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments To: Ron Pool Cc: Ned Freed , Nathaniel Borenstein , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Ron et al, This is a really important issue, and one we've been wrestling with for some months. (In fact, I've taken the liberty of CCing the MIME authors in case they wish to comment.) Putting aside for the moment the possibility that there may still be bugs in either Pine's base64 or quoted-printable encoding/decoding routines, the design problem is: when to use b64 encoding and when to use q-p encoding. The issues: -Above all else, the integrity of MIME attachments must be preserved. That is, MIME is a failure if people can't have certainty that the MIME-attached bits will be delivered intact. This would argue for using B64 encoding all the time. (You don't want q-p newline translation to occur on something that wasn't really a text file.) -At odds with the above is the fact that text line delimiters differ from one system to the next, and if you know you are dealing with a text file, it would be nice if the system would handle newline translation automatically. This argues for using q-p whenever you think you have a text file. (If b64 was used for text, the destination system might have trouble reading the text, if the nl conventions were different. The translation couldn't be automated because the MIME typing doesn't currently differentiate text files by originating OS.) -If you think you have a text file, q-p is also desirable because it is semi-readable by non-MIME mail readers. -One lesson of FTP is that we don't want a system where the user has to explicitly declare the type of file and therefore the encoding type. (That's not to preclude the possibility of override, but in general, we don't want people to have to say the equivalent of "binary" or "type image" in order to guarantee correct delivery. I've seen too many help desk problems from getting this wrong; I've even heard the claim that you can't reliably send binary data on the Internet, presumably because of ftp mode ignorance!!) -The behavior (choice of encoding) should be predictable. So one problem is how to decide whether or not you really have a text file. One can define a text file to be a file that only uses certain bit patterns within the character space, but to be certain you must scan the entire file. But that's inefficient, so right now Pine looks at the first chunk and tries to make the right decision. It would appear that the current test is not sufficiently conservative, and may also fail the predictability goal. Some Unix systems have a very sophisticated "file" program that could help, but others are less sophisticated, and DOS users may have nothing of the kind. So what is the minimum acceptable test for "text-ness"? Of if efficiency concerns imply that there will always be some uncertainty in the correctness of the encoding decision --a bad thing-- should we consider defining subtypes text/mac, text/dos, text/unix so b64 could be used in all cases, and the mail *reader* could do the appropriate newline translation, if any was needed? (This assumes that everyone will soon have MIME-capable mail readers available, which is arguable, but perhaps not that unreasonable a premise if it would improve the certainty that MIME attachments are reliable.) Comments/suggestions are welcome. -teg On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Ron Pool wrote: > On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Jonathan Kruger wrote: > > Why is it that when I send a NeXT WordPerfect document or a .GIF file > > as a MIME attachment it works, but if I send a WP5.1 or .TIFF file the > > attachment only contains a few bytes like "II*" and nothing else? > > We just noticed this happen with a DOS WordPerfect 5.1 document here > yesterday. I looked into why it was happening and decided that > file_type() in pine/send.c was deciding it was quotable-text, when it > wasn't. I'm not sure why, but for us encoding all enclosures as base64 > works, so I replaced the call to file_type() with an assignment to the > value IsBinary. This is a bad fix as it means some files that could have > been directly viewable with MIME tools now won't be, but we had a couple > of users who really needed to get going. > > I did notice while reading send.c that there are special checks for > certain file types that just look for a signature of just a few characters at > the beginning of a file to determine file type. This allows pine to > recognize some certain files (GIF and TIFF in particular), but it's > certainly possible for files to be recognized as being of a certain > type when they're really not of that type. > -- > Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853 > Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 5 12:43:58 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17414; Fri, 5 Feb 93 12:43:58 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17683; Fri, 5 Feb 93 12:28:13 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from thumper.bellcore.com by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17677; Fri, 5 Feb 93 12:28:10 -0800 Received: from greenbush.bellcore.com by thumper.bellcore.com (4.1/4.7) id for gray@cac.washington.edu; Fri, 5 Feb 93 15:28:07 EST Received: by greenbush.bellcore.com (4.1/4.7) id for pine-info@cac.washington.edu; Fri, 5 Feb 93 15:28:06 EST Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.greenbush.galaxy.sun4.41 via MS.5.6.greenbush.galaxy.sun4_41; Fri, 5 Feb 1993 15:28:04 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 15:28:04 -0500 (EST) From: Nathaniel Borenstein Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: Ron Pool , Terry Gray Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments Cc: Ned Freed , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: References: Status: O X-Status: Excerpts from mail: 5-Feb-93 Re: Problem using MIME atta.. Terry Gray@cac.washingto (4704*) > (If b64 was used for text, the destination system might > have trouble reading the text, if the nl conventions were different. > The translation couldn't be automated because the MIME typing doesn't > currently differentiate text files by originating OS.) Actually, a scrupulously correct MIME implementation shouldn't have this trouble, because MIME says that text should be converted to CRLF form before it goes into base64; however, I anticipate that many folks will have trouble getting this detail right. > -If you think you have a text file, q-p is also desirable because it > is semi-readable by non-MIME mail readers. Yes, that's another good reason not to use base64 for text. > Of if efficiency concerns imply that there will always be some uncertainty > in the correctness of the encoding decision --a bad thing-- should we > consider defining subtypes text/mac, text/dos, text/unix so b64 could be > used in all cases, and the mail *reader* could do the appropriate newline > translation, if any was needed? I think that's a bad idea; if you're going to put text in base64, you should simply convert to CRLF conventions. It's tricky to understand the necessity of this, perhaps, but simple to implement. Just my two cents.... -- Nathaniel From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 5 14:17:14 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19725; Fri, 5 Feb 93 14:17:14 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20806; Fri, 5 Feb 93 14:10:28 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20800; Fri, 5 Feb 93 14:10:26 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA05902; Fri, 5 Feb 93 14:10:17 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Feb 1993 13:51:00 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments To: Nathaniel Borenstein Cc: Ron Pool , Terry Gray , Ned Freed , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: It's important to realize that there are two separate issues here: 1) determining the difference between text and binary 2) choosing between quoted-printable and base64 I will contend that the (2) choice is one of esthetics. Quoted-printable is quite capable of carrying arbitrary binary. However, to make this choice intelligently, you have to be able to do (1). My NeXT MailManager application punts on both of these, and just transmits everything as binary files. This has the newline problem that Terry noted, although it's not as serious as it might be since it's tagged as binary (there is a MailManager bug in that it fails to do newline conversions when unattaching segments declared as text). The kludge suggested for Pine would make Pine do what MailManager does with attaching (but not have the MailManager bug). It certainly seems to be what's needed to get your users back on the air. The behavior you've reported with damaged attachments is *definitely* a bug, and we'll look into it. Either there is something wrong with c-client's quoted-printable encoder, or Pine may be doing something wrong with preparing the data for encoding. Either way, we'll fix it. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 6 18:13:12 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13431; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:13:12 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25396; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:01:57 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25390; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:01:53 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA18392; Sat, 6 Feb 1993 21:01:46 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 20:24:59 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments To: Terry Gray Cc: Ron Pool , Ned Freed , Nathaniel Borenstein , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: First a couple of points: * If you follow the MIME canonical MIME encoding model as Nathaniel suggests and first convert to CRLF and then B64 you have to make sure the body part is tagged as text so the client knows to convert to the local end of line convention. (This is related to other MIME discussions about what type to use for an attached text file text/xxxx or application/o-s, or a newly defined type). If you don't B64 encode it you let the mail transport (sendmail in the case of UNIX) do the end of line conversion. This is what Pine does now. * Pine actually reads the whole file to make it's determination as to whether it's text or not. If it has lines over some limit long or more than 10% characters with the 8th bit on it concludes the file is binary. (It has to allow for ISO-8859-1 text which might have a few 8 bit characters). I believe the bug in question here may be because the files have NULLs in them and the above test for binary fails for the NULL character -- if it has NULLs it should be binary. Then Pine tries to treat them as strings and of course they wind up a lot shorter than they ought to. I believe this is fixed in an unreleased version of Pine. I'm trying to remember exactly what the reliability problem of q-p encoding is. I know one problem is going through an EBCDIC gateway, but I can't think of any other. A file attachment that is text with some non-EBCDIC characters will be corrupted as it goes through the gateway. It seems to me we have three choices now: 1 Encoding everything in B64 including text attachments tag as text/plain + Increased reliability - Loss distinction between message text parts and text attachments - Loss of readability of text attachments by non MIME users 2 Encode text with q-p and tag as application/o-s (Current Pine) + Readability for non-MIME folks - Less reliable 3 Create a text/file subtype for file attachments and B64 them + Increased reliability - Loss of readability for non-MIME folks I've assumed that not handling the end of line conversion is not an option. Three is the best if you don't worry about non-MIME folks. It is reliable and distinguishes file attachments from text parts of the message, but it will require an extension to MIME. At this point I feel I'm sort of lacking data to decide which is best. What are the relative risks and importance of: - Is the reliability of B64 or q-p encoding really substantial? What is the real risk here? How many EBCDIC gateways are there? - How important readability for non-MIME folks? - How important is it to distinguish text parts from text attachments We can eliminate the third trade off with a new MIME type, but we have to choose between the other two. Personally in Pine I often will use a MIME attachment for a text file while sending to someone without MIME because I know they can read it, and then if they do have MIME we're encouraging it's use. I'm also skeptical that there are that many reliability problems with q-p encoding, though I'd certainly like to hear about them. How many EBCDIC gateways are there, and what other problems are there? Lastly, it is often nice to display attachments when the user requests. Right now if the type is application/o-s you have to use a hueristic like Pine does when creating an attachment to determine if it is text or not to know it it can be displayed. If the text/file subtype (or application/ text-file) where added then it would be clear which was which. Hope this makes sense! LL On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote: > Ron et al, > This is a really important issue, and one we've been wrestling with for > some months. (In fact, I've taken the liberty of CCing the MIME authors > in case they wish to comment.) > > Putting aside for the moment the possibility that there may still be bugs > in either Pine's base64 or quoted-printable encoding/decoding routines, the > design problem is: when to use b64 encoding and when to use q-p encoding. > > The issues: > > -Above all else, the integrity of MIME attachments must be preserved. > That is, MIME is a failure if people can't have certainty that the > MIME-attached bits will be delivered intact. This would argue for > using B64 encoding all the time. (You don't want q-p newline > translation to occur on something that wasn't really a text file.) > > -At odds with the above is the fact that text line delimiters differ from > one system to the next, and if you know you are dealing with a text > file, it would be nice if the system would handle newline translation > automatically. This argues for using q-p whenever you think you have > a text file. (If b64 was used for text, the destination system might > have trouble reading the text, if the nl conventions were different. > The translation couldn't be automated because the MIME typing doesn't > currently differentiate text files by originating OS.) > > -If you think you have a text file, q-p is also desirable because it > is semi-readable by non-MIME mail readers. > > -One lesson of FTP is that we don't want a system where the user has > to explicitly declare the type of file and therefore the encoding type. > (That's not to preclude the possibility of override, but in general, > we don't want people to have to say the equivalent of "binary" or "type > image" in order to guarantee correct delivery. I've seen too many > help desk problems from getting this wrong; I've even heard the claim > that you can't reliably send binary data on the Internet, presumably > because of ftp mode ignorance!!) > > -The behavior (choice of encoding) should be predictable. > > So one problem is how to decide whether or not you really have a text file. > One can define a text file to be a file that only uses certain bit > patterns within the character space, but to be certain you must scan the > entire file. But that's inefficient, so right now Pine looks at the first > chunk and tries to make the right decision. > > It would appear that the current test is not sufficiently conservative, > and may also fail the predictability goal. Some Unix systems have a very > sophisticated "file" program that could help, but others are less > sophisticated, and DOS users may have nothing of the kind. So what is the > minimum acceptable test for "text-ness"? > > Of if efficiency concerns imply that there will always be some uncertainty > in the correctness of the encoding decision --a bad thing-- should we > consider defining subtypes text/mac, text/dos, text/unix so b64 could be > used in all cases, and the mail *reader* could do the appropriate newline > translation, if any was needed? (This assumes that everyone will soon > have MIME-capable mail readers available, which is arguable, but perhaps > not that unreasonable a premise if it would improve the certainty that > MIME attachments are reliable.) > > Comments/suggestions are welcome. > > -teg > > > > On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Ron Pool wrote: > > > On Fri, 5 Feb 1993, Jonathan Kruger wrote: > > > Why is it that when I send a NeXT WordPerfect document or a .GIF file > > > as a MIME attachment it works, but if I send a WP5.1 or .TIFF file the > > > attachment only contains a few bytes like "II*" and nothing else? > > > > We just noticed this happen with a DOS WordPerfect 5.1 document here > > yesterday. I looked into why it was happening and decided that > > file_type() in pine/send.c was deciding it was quotable-text, when it > > wasn't. I'm not sure why, but for us encoding all enclosures as base64 > > works, so I replaced the call to file_type() with an assignment to the > > value IsBinary. This is a bad fix as it means some files that could have > > been directly viewable with MIME tools now won't be, but we had a couple > > of users who really needed to get going. > > > > I did notice while reading send.c that there are special checks for > > certain file types that just look for a signature of just a few characters at > > the beginning of a file to determine file type. This allows pine to > > recognize some certain files (GIF and TIFF in particular), but it's > > certainly possible for files to be recognized as being of a certain > > type when they're really not of that type. > > -- > > Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853 > > Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu > > > > > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 6 18:54:45 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13745; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:54:45 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25536; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:46:23 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25530; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:46:22 -0800 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12756; Sat, 6 Feb 93 18:46:17 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 18:15:19 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments To: Laurence Lundblade Cc: Ron Pool , Ned Freed , Nathaniel Borenstein , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: > 3 Create a text/file subtype for file attachments and B64 them > + Increased reliability > - Loss of readability for non-MIME folks This is a comment just on the typing specification, not whether or not to use b64 encoding... As we've discussed separately, the problem with "text/file" is that it breaks the typing model. "file" is not a type, it is a specification of the way the bits happen to be stored, and is useful only to distinguish text that came from a file from text that was entered directly into the composer. In order to make the text/file approach work, you would need to create a parallel universe of "file" subtypes for all other *real* subtypes of type text. That is, you need to have text/plain and text/plainfile, text/rich and text/richfile, etc. (That's again because "file" has no bearing on the semantic type of the information.) So I think this is the wrong direction. It is clear that the current strategy in Pine of using application/o-s is also wrong, as it should certainly be possible to display attached text files base on their MIME type. So I believe attached text files should use the normal MIME text type. This is orthogonal to the original question I posed of how to reliably determine when you really have a text file, as it would be disastrous to apply newline transformations to something that just *seemed* like it was a text object... obviously I didn't realize that Pine was already looking at the entire file to make its decision, so maybe that's a non-issue. Then the more interesting question becomes when to use b64 and when to use q-p once you've decided you've got a text file. Is it, as Mark suggests, strictly an aesthetic decision, or are there cases (e.g. the EBCDIC gateway) where q-p will lose data integrity. (I'm assuming q-p would be done in a way that quotes NL-From sequences that would otherwise be munged by Bky mail delivery software.) Since I'm personally convinced that data integrity is *infinitely* more important than backwards compatibility for non-MIME mailers, this seems to me to be the crucial issue. (You can keep using Ctl-R text inclusion until all your friends are MIME-capable!) -teg From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 6 19:15:54 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13973; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:15:54 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25624; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:06:13 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25618; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:06:10 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA18834; Sat, 6 Feb 1993 22:06:07 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 21:56:01 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments (text/file or no) To: Terry Gray Cc: Ron Pool , Ned Freed , Nathaniel Borenstein , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Hello Terry, Since the two issues here are orthogonal let me reply twice. Yes, a bunch of subtypes like text/plaintext would clearly be a bad idea. That's an interesting observation about the "text" major type. What exactly does it mean? Seems that it can be taken to indicate that it is text to be displayed as part of the initial message the user sees when we opens the message, or does it indicate the format of the data? I'm not sure if this is clear. The main problem I see with tagging an attachment that happens to be text as "text/plain" is that the receiver of will see little indication that that part of the message is an attachment. This is the case in the way that Pine works now and I believe is the case with Andrew. Instead the potentially 100's of Kb will be text displayed when the user opens the message as Pine (and Andrew I think) currently display all text parts of a message right up front. We could change this so it only displays the first text part, but there are many MIME messages (Barber shop MIME) for example that wouldn't be displayed in this case. It was my impression that one of the intents of MIME was to be able to map multimedia mail composed on a GUI desk top into something that was manageable on a character terminal. Would a subtype application/text-file, sort of a parallel to application/ octet-stream, solve this problem? There certainly aren't any other sub types that we'd have to worry about. My personal use isn't certainly not important here. It would be nice to hear what some of the other MIME folks think about the meaning of the "text" type. LL On Sat, 6 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote: > > > 3 Create a text/file subtype for file attachments and B64 them > > + Increased reliability > > - Loss of readability for non-MIME folks > > This is a comment just on the typing specification, not whether or not > to use b64 encoding... > > As we've discussed separately, the problem with "text/file" is that it > breaks the typing model. "file" is not a type, it is a specification of > the way the bits happen to be stored, and is useful only to distinguish > text that came from a file from text that was entered directly into the > composer. > > In order to make the text/file approach work, you would need to create a > parallel universe of "file" subtypes for all other *real* subtypes of type > text. That is, you need to have text/plain and text/plainfile, text/rich > and text/richfile, etc. (That's again because "file" has no bearing on > the semantic type of the information.) > > So I think this is the wrong direction. It is clear that the current > strategy in Pine of using application/o-s is also wrong, as it should > certainly be possible to display attached text files base on their MIME type. > So I believe attached text files should use the normal MIME text type. > > -teg > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 6 19:25:10 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14040; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:25:10 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25661; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:17:50 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25655; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:17:48 -0800 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20161; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:17:44 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 19:13:33 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments (text/file or no) To: Laurence Lundblade Cc: Ned Freed , Nathaniel Borenstein , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: > The main problem I see with tagging an attachment that happens to be text > as "text/plain" is that the receiver of will see little indication that > that part of the message is an attachment. Or said differently, there is little indication that text entered directly into the composer is *not* an attachment from the user's view point. So maybe we're looking at this backwards: the problem is distinguishing the text that is entered directly into the composer so that it will be displayed automatically, as opposed to displayed "on demand". Is there some clever use of "text" and/or "message" types that could be used to distinguish the composed text part of the message? -teg From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 6 19:39:36 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14187; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:39:36 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25719; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:32:36 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25713; Sat, 6 Feb 93 19:32:34 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA19011; Sat, 6 Feb 1993 22:32:32 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 22:20:33 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments (text/file or no) To: Terry Gray Cc: Ned Freed , Nathaniel Borenstein , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: > > The main problem I see with tagging an attachment that happens to be text > > as "text/plain" is that the receiver of will see little indication that > > that part of the message is an attachment. > > Or said differently, there is little indication that text entered directly > into the composer is *not* an attachment from the user's view point. So > maybe we're looking at this backwards: the problem is distinguishing the > text that is entered directly into the composer so that it will be > displayed automatically, as opposed to displayed "on demand". > > Is there some clever use of "text" and/or "message" types that could be used > to distinguish the composed text part of the message? > Yes, displayed on demand versus automatic is exactly the problem I have in mind! Sorry if that wasn't clear. I'm not sure that message type would fool Pine as it tries to display all the sub messages and their text too. I don't see any subtypes under message that look good though it seems like a clever idea. Another possiblity that's come to my mind is to use application/ X-text-file for now and as an experiment. Of course it would only work with Pine, but it's legal MIME and other MIME implementations should just treat it as application/octet-stream. (Better check the RFC on this one to be sure). (Actually last I saw one MIME implementation was getting away sending Application/octet-data which isn't even legal MIME). LL From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 6 20:09:09 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14499; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:09:09 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27760; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:01:09 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27754; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:01:07 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA06676; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:00:51 -0800 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA26789; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:00:43 -0800 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 19:33:04 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments To: Laurence Lundblade Cc: Terry Gray , Ned Freed , Nathaniel Borenstein , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Hi - I'm staying out of the discussion about TEXT/FILE vs. APPLICATION/TEXT because I think it's religious and I'm pretty ecumenical on that particular question. I agree with most of the assessments of the pros and cons on each, and I'd go with concensus. Of course, that's easy for me to say since it's not up to me to implement it! ;-) > I'm trying to remember exactly what the reliability problem of q-p > encoding is. I know one problem is going through an EBCDIC gateway, but I > can't think of any other. A file attachment that is text with some > non-EBCDIC characters will be corrupted as it goes through the gateway. Please try to make sure Nathaniel and Ned have the details of this, because supposedly q-p is immune to this. > 1 Encoding everything in B64 including text attachments tag as text/plain > - Loss distinction between message text parts and text attachments I'm not sure this ``minus'' is all that important, as long as you have the ability to save any text part to a file. A clever user interface can do a lot here, and Pine certainly qualifies. > 2 Encode text with q-p and tag as application/o-s (Current Pine) > - Less reliable This rumor of unreliability is of concern to us. I think that application/o-s should indicate that newline processing should not be done, hence Pine vs MailManager's cat-fight over text attachments (Pine attaches as text, MailManager attaches as binary). Whether the data is in q-p or base64 should be irrelevant to the text vs binary issue; the typing should indicate this Here is my feeling on the matter of the ``right'' thing to do: ATTACHING: - Select binary vs text. Text data is a sequence of mostly printable characters and formatters (e.g. CTRL/L) terminated by the *local* system's newline convention (CTRL/J on Unix, CTRL/M CTRL/J on DOS, CTRL/M on Mac, etc.). So this is an osdep decision. Text that exhibits some other line convention (e.g. CTRL/M's appearing in the data on Unix) should be automatically disqualified as text and labelled as binary. - if text, apply newline conversion to internet standard CR/LF. Set type to be TEXT/FILE, APPLICATION/TEXT, whatever is decided as P.C. for this. - if binary, set type to APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM - Determine base64 vs q-p encoding - if text, default to q-p, unless there is an excessive amount of 8th bit and non-printable CTRL characters (e.g. nulls, CTRL/C, etc.) that would make a q-p segment likely to be longer than base64. - if binary, default to base64, unless there is a paucity of 8th bit and non-printable CTRL characters that would make a q-p segment likely to be shorter than base64. DETACHING: - apply q-p or base64 decoding as possible. - process the resulting data: - if APPLICATION/TEXT (or whatever) convert all CR/LF to local newline. - if APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM, write without conversions Essentially, the encoding format should say nothing about newlines. It is the type that should say this, as follows: - APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM should say that ``this is a sequence of octets that should be written to a file without any attempt to change it to local data conventions.'' - APPLICATION/TEXT should say ``this is text in Internet newline format that you may need to convert to local data conventions.'' TOPS-20 ;-) and DOS machines will happily ignore the difference, but everyone else would have to do newline conversions for APPLICATION/TEXT. I think that MIME made a big mistake in trying to mesh encodings (base64, q-p, 7bit, 8bit) with the newline problem. I should have understood this back then, but I didn't. It's a terrible mixing of layers to have q-p try to understand ``newlines'' vs. CR, LF, and CR LF. I wonder if we can fix this in MIME without endangering its standards track process by saying ``this is merely a deletion of what we've realized is a bad idea''. -- Mark -- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 6 20:15:10 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14560; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:15:10 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27785; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:06:00 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27779; Sat, 6 Feb 93 20:05:57 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA19339; Sat, 6 Feb 1993 23:05:51 -0500 Date: Sat, 6 Feb 1993 23:04:55 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments To: Mark Crispin Cc: Terry Gray , Ned Freed , Nathaniel Borenstein , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 6 Feb 1993, Mark Crispin wrote: > Hi - > > .... > > Here is my feeling on the matter of the ``right'' thing to do: > > ATTACHING: > - Select binary vs text. Text data is a sequence of mostly printable > characters and formatters (e.g. CTRL/L) terminated by the *local* system's > newline convention (CTRL/J on Unix, CTRL/M CTRL/J on DOS, CTRL/M on Mac, > etc.). So this is an osdep decision. Text that exhibits some other > line convention (e.g. CTRL/M's appearing in the data on Unix) should be > automatically disqualified as text and labelled as binary. > - if text, apply newline conversion to internet standard CR/LF. Set type > to be TEXT/FILE, APPLICATION/TEXT, whatever is decided as P.C. for this. > - if binary, set type to APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM > - Determine base64 vs q-p encoding > - if text, default to q-p, unless there is an excessive amount of 8th bit > and non-printable CTRL characters (e.g. nulls, CTRL/C, etc.) that would > make a q-p segment likely to be longer than base64. > - if binary, default to base64, unless there is a paucity of 8th bit and > non-printable CTRL characters that would make a q-p segment likely to be > shorter than base64. > > DETACHING: > - apply q-p or base64 decoding as possible. > - process the resulting data: > - if APPLICATION/TEXT (or whatever) convert all CR/LF to local newline. > - if APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM, write without conversions > .... Agreed!!! LL From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sun Feb 7 08:38:03 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22319; Sun, 7 Feb 93 08:38:03 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28482; Sun, 7 Feb 93 08:27:46 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from thumper.bellcore.com by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28476; Sun, 7 Feb 93 08:27:02 -0800 Received: from greenbush.bellcore.com by thumper.bellcore.com (4.1/4.7) id for gray@cac.washington.edu; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:27:00 EST Received: by greenbush.bellcore.com (4.1/4.7) id for pine-info@cac.washington.edu; Sun, 7 Feb 93 10:57:02 EST Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.greenbush.galaxy.sun4.41 via MS.5.6.greenbush.galaxy.sun4_41; Sun, 7 Feb 1993 10:57:00 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 10:57:00 -0500 (EST) From: Nathaniel Borenstein Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII To: Mark Crispin , Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments Cc: Terry Gray , Ned Freed , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: References: Status: O X-Status: Rather than another type, how about adding a parameter to application/octet-stream to indicate whether the attachment is readable as text, e.g. Content-type: application/octet-stream; readable=yes or something like that? Seems to me that this captures the one bit of difference that we're trying to get at here with the smallest possible change to MIME.... -- Nathaniel From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sun Feb 7 09:39:18 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23031; Sun, 7 Feb 93 09:39:18 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28644; Sun, 7 Feb 93 09:29:03 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28638; Sun, 7 Feb 93 09:28:42 -0800 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12581; Sun, 7 Feb 93 09:23:55 -0800 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 09:21:31 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments To: Nathaniel Borenstein Cc: Mark Crispin , Laurence Lundblade , Ned Freed , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 7 Feb 1993, Nathaniel Borenstein wrote: > Rather than another type, how about adding a parameter to > application/octet-stream to indicate whether the attachment is readable > as text, e.g. > > Content-type: application/octet-stream; readable=yes Not a bad idea, but I would turn it around: Content-type: text/plain; source=file or Content-type: text/plain; source=message I think it is imperative that text objects get typed as "text", lest the NL stuff gets messed up... -teg From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sun Feb 7 11:40:32 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24483; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:40:32 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00929; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:30:06 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00918; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:29:16 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA07092; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:28:39 -0800 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA29584; Sun, 7 Feb 93 11:27:29 -0800 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 11:21:59 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments To: Terry Gray Cc: Nathaniel Borenstein , Laurence Lundblade , Ned Freed , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 7 Feb 1993 09:21:31 -0800 (PST), Terry Gray wrote: > On Sun, 7 Feb 1993, Nathaniel Borenstein wrote: > > Rather than another type, how about adding a parameter to > > application/octet-stream to indicate whether the attachment is readable > > as text, e.g. > > Content-type: application/octet-stream; readable=yes > > Not a bad idea, but I would turn it around: > > Content-type: text/plain; source=file > > or > > Content-type: text/plain; source=message > > I think it is imperative that text objects get typed as "text", lest the NL > stuff gets messed up... And now we've gone full circle, because now we have TEXT/PLAIN being used both for text which is intended to be read by a human in the mail reader, and application data which just happens to be in text/Internet new line form. At the very least, we need a separate subtype that clearly states that: 1) it is application data 2) it is text using Internet newlines It is a matter of religion whether or not it is a subtype of APPLICATION or of TEXT, and I am ecumenical on this question; although I somewhat think that APPLICATION is more appropriate (note that MESSAGE also has ``text''). We can delete from q-p all the crap about newline handling if we separate text vs. binary at the upper levels. So, I see it as the addition on one subtype (as a bug fix) and the deletion of text (as unnecessary); hopefully miminal damage and not enough to endanger its progression to Draft. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sun Feb 7 12:08:14 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24798; Sun, 7 Feb 93 12:08:14 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01046; Sun, 7 Feb 93 12:02:45 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01040; Sun, 7 Feb 93 12:02:42 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA24083; Sun, 7 Feb 1993 15:02:35 -0500 Date: Sun, 7 Feb 1993 15:00:05 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Problem using MIME attachments To: Terry Gray Cc: Nathaniel Borenstein , Mark Crispin , Ned Freed , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Sun, 7 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote: > Not a bad idea, but I would turn it around: > > Content-type: text/plain; source=file > This looks like it would work great for Pine! Possibly the parameter should be name= since that's what is used with application/o-s. Pine will display all text without the name parameter and treat that with the name parameter as a displayable attachment. This will solve the problem for Pine, but for the sake of ineroperability it seems like it would be good to persue something more formal like Mark has suggested, so other implementors figure out how do deal with this. LL From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Feb 8 23:20:54 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28892; Mon, 8 Feb 93 23:20:54 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12433; Mon, 8 Feb 93 23:14:46 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12427; Mon, 8 Feb 93 23:14:44 -0800 Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA09257; Mon, 8 Feb 93 23:14:39 -0800 Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 22:58:12 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: Message ID To: "David E. Martin" Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, connie@hep.net, dingbaum@hep.net In-Reply-To: <199302082338.AA06347@nhmpw2.fnal.gov> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Hi - I'm surprised that your system really cares about the precise contents of the Message-ID, since it is defined syntactically only. I hope this is only an esthetic issue. However, it really is important that the fully-qualified domain name (FQDN) be listed before any nicknames or non-FQDNs in any host table. In several places internally, Pine uses the results of the equivalent of: gethostname (tmp,TMPLEN); myhostname = gethostbyname (tmp)->h_name; to get the fully-qualified domain name. You may have other strange side effects caused by Pine's inability to get the FQDN. I'm surprised you haven't seen any by now. Arguably, it's a bug that YP and host tables allow a non-FQDN to show up as the result of the above code sequence, but the sad reality is that they do... :-( On my machines, I use FQDNs in my bootparams. In general, I consider non-FDQNs to be only for user typing convenience, and stick to FQDNs in all configuration files, etc. It makes life a lot easier and simpler just to assume that only FQDN's work. If you can do this, this may help a lot. Another possibility is to punt things like YP and NetInfo and stick with the DNS, but I understand that that may not be a feasible or useful suggestion for you. -- Mark -- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Feb 9 03:01:05 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02576; Tue, 9 Feb 93 03:01:05 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13174; Tue, 9 Feb 93 02:54:25 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mail.brad.ac.uk by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13168; Tue, 9 Feb 93 02:54:17 -0800 Received: from subnode.bradford.ac.uk (info.brad.ac.uk) by mail.brad.ac.uk; Tue, 9 Feb 1993 10:50:46 GMT Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 10:05:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Paul Sutton Subject: re: Message ID To: Mark Crispin Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 8 Feb 1993, Mark Crispin wrote: > I'm surprised that your system really cares about the precise contents of > the Message-ID, since it is defined syntactically only. I hope this is only > an esthetic issue. We had the same situation as the poster; for historical reasons we do not have the FQDN in the hosts table. I wanted to ensure that the message-ID contained the FQDN to ensure that the message-id's generated were unique. I suppose it might be aesthetic only, but I can't see how you can guarantee that message-ids are unique if you don't use the FQDN. > However, it really is important that the fully-qualified domain name > (FQDN) be listed before any nicknames or non-FQDNs in any host table. In > several places internally, Pine uses the results of the equivalent of: > gethostname (tmp,TMPLEN); > myhostname = gethostbyname (tmp)->h_name; > to get the fully-qualified domain name. I think that the only place that obtains the hostname is the OS specific files (os-unx.c, etc). This is stored into hostname[] for use elsewhere. Based on this assumption I made a simple modification to gethostname() to ensure that hostname[] always had our domain name taked onto its end. > On my machines, I use FQDNs in my bootparams. In general, I consider > non-FDQNs to be only for user typing convenience, and stick to FQDNs in all > configuration files, etc. It makes life a lot easier and simpler just to > assume that only FQDN's work. If you can do this, this may help a lot. I agree with you, and if we started our systems from scratch we'd use FQDNs everywhere. However, at the moment and for the immediate future we are stuck with short names (changing to FQDN is not a trivial task, since the hostname is used as a key is many places which will break when it is changed). Paul -- Paul Sutton | Computer Centre, University of Bradford, P.C.Sutton@bradford.ac.uk | Bradford, UK. Tel +44.274.383319 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Feb 9 08:56:48 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07515; Tue, 9 Feb 93 08:56:48 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15092; Tue, 9 Feb 93 08:42:47 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15086; Tue, 9 Feb 93 08:42:38 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA20891; Tue, 9 Feb 1993 11:39:57 -0500 Date: Tue, 9 Feb 1993 11:36:30 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: re: Message ID To: Paul Sutton Cc: Mark Crispin , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 9 Feb 1993, Paul Sutton wrote: > I think that the only place that obtains the hostname is the OS specific > files (os-unx.c, etc). This is stored into hostname[] for use elsewhere. > Based on this assumption I made a simple modification to gethostname() to > ensure that hostname[] always had our domain name taked onto its end. > What library calls or other do you use to look up to domain you tack on? You might just send the code. This is a common annoyance with Pine and I would like to see it fixed, but in a way that folks installing Pine wouldn't have to worry about it. (No compile time configuration). LL From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 10 04:56:43 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02430; Wed, 10 Feb 93 04:56:43 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24392; Wed, 10 Feb 93 04:49:21 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mail.brad.ac.uk by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24386; Wed, 10 Feb 93 04:49:15 -0800 Received: from subnode.bradford.ac.uk (info.brad.ac.uk) by mail.brad.ac.uk; Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:45:39 GMT Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 12:40:44 +0000 (GMT) From: Paul Sutton Subject: re: Message ID To: Laurence Lundblade Cc: Mark Crispin , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Tue, 9 Feb 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote: > On Tue, 9 Feb 1993, Paul Sutton wrote: > > I think that the only place that obtains the hostname is the OS specific > > files (os-unx.c, etc). This is stored into hostname[] for use elsewhere. > > Based on this assumption I made a simple modification to gethostname() to > > ensure that hostname[] always had our domain name taked onto its end. > > What library calls or other do you use to look up to domain you tack on? > You might just send the code. > > This is a common annoyance with Pine and I would like to see it fixed, but > in a way that folks installing Pine wouldn't have to worry about it. (No > compile time configuration). I'm afraid I don't do anything clever (or portable!) - just a straight modification to os-unx.c to force the adding of our domain (which is hard-coded in, ugh!). (It would be better if it got the domain from the user-domain, maybe, or from the DNS, but I wanted to make the minimum amount of changes to the source code so that I could apply it to future versions without hassle!). Still, it works for us, so it may be useful, so here's the context diff (if you aren't using os-unx as your OS specific files you'll have to apply this to os-???.c instead). *** os-unx.c.orig Thu Sep 17 16:17:23 1992 --- os-unx.c Thu Sep 17 16:19:31 1992 *************** *** 986,991 **** --- 986,993 ---- strncpy(hostname, hname, hsize - 1); } else { strncpy(hostname, he->h_name, hsize-1); + if (strindex(hostname, '.') == NULL) + strcat(hostname, ".brad.ac.uk"); } hostname[hsize-1] = '\0'; Paul -- Paul Sutton | Computer Centre, University of Bradford, P.C.Sutton@bradford.ac.uk | Bradford, UK. Tel +44.274.383319 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 10 08:16:58 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA05056; Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:16:58 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21859; Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:10:46 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21853; Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:10:45 -0800 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23371; Wed, 10 Feb 93 08:10:42 -0800 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 08:05:21 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: Global Address books To: Ian Lumb Cc: PINE INFO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Ian and Mike, Some form of shared address book is definitely on the enhancement list... We just need someone to give us one of those "Round TuIt" things :) One question is whether this should be a simple extension to the personal address book (but searched *after* the personal one, or whether it should be an interface to whois/x.500/etc, or are both mechanisms desirable? I suspect the answer is "both", but comments are welcome. (Obviously the former is easier than the latter and would therefore be likely to appear sooner!) -teg On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Ian Lumb wrote: > This is a terrific idea Mike, that I'd also like to see added/kludged into > pine. > > Ian. > > > > > -- > Ian Lumb Internet: > Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University > North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA > Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 10 10:44:14 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09593; Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:44:14 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26816; Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:26:43 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from julian.uwo.ca by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26810; Wed, 10 Feb 93 10:26:40 -0800 Received: by julian.uwo.ca id AA07084; Wed, 10 Feb 93 13:26:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 13:16:32 -0500 (EST) From: Mike Cote Subject: Re: Global Address books To: Terry Gray Cc: Ian Lumb , PINE INFO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Ian, Terry: As we have both X.500 and whois here at UWO, this topic was one of the first to come up when we decided to go with pine. I've made some changes to our local pine in order to allow some interaction with a generic directory server program (using whois as the default). With the work I've done so far you can invoke whois with ^W from either the 'ADDRESS BOOK' screen or the 'COMPOSE' screen (from the header fields only). A search key is prompted for and the results displayed as a 'HELP' screen (I cheated a bit here, but it works nicely). I've also added a 'directory-access' entry to the .pinerc file, as we're also working on a local version of whois. The next step is to figure out a way to pull an address from the whois lookup into the appropriate mail header field. At this point the interface is purely visual. For the brave... A diff file containing the whois changes is available on julian.uwo.ca as ~ftp/pub/unix/mail/pine-3.05/uwo-whois.diff. All changes are #ifdef'd with 'WHOIS'. Suggestions are welcome. ----------- Mike Cote Computing and Communications Services University of Western Ontario Phone: (519) 661-2151, X 6048 London, Ontario Canada On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote: > Ian and Mike, > Some form of shared address book is definitely on the enhancement list... > We just need someone to give us one of those "Round TuIt" things :) > > One question is whether this should be a simple extension to the personal > address book (but searched *after* the personal one, or whether it should > be an interface to whois/x.500/etc, or are both mechanisms desirable? I > suspect the answer is "both", but comments are welcome. (Obviously the > former is easier than the latter and would therefore be likely to appear > sooner!) > > -teg > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 10 18:43:51 1993 Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23894; Wed, 10 Feb 93 18:43:51 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from pail.rain.com by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23888; Wed, 10 Feb 93 18:43:12 -0800 Received: by pail.rain.com (/\==/\ Smail3.1.21.1 #21.2) id ; Wed, 10 Feb 93 18:42 PST Received: from bachelor.cascorp.com by mazama.cascorp.com with SMTP (16.8/4.0 Server UUCP) id AA03720; Wed, 10 Feb 93 14:02:06 -0800 From: David Bradford Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 13:55:39 +0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Global Address books To: pail!pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Bill Feidt wrote: > I believe that option 1 would be of significant value to our > organization. If tying it to option 2 keeps it lower on the > "TuIt" list, then I'd vote for divide and conquer. > Option 1 would be of significant value to our group as well. We are on the verge of having a distinct need for a global address book. The sooner you can get TuIt, the better :) - Dave ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, : : : : David L. Bradford UUCP: cascorp!dbradfor@pail.rain.com : __ | : : CAD Tech Support CASCADE CORPORATION, Portland, OR, USA : |__\_| : : (503) 669-6285 Manufacturers of Lift Truck Attachments : @--@|__ : : : : ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 10 21:28:27 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25905; Wed, 10 Feb 93 21:28:27 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28470; Wed, 10 Feb 93 21:20:56 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28464; Wed, 10 Feb 93 21:20:54 -0800 Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9225>; Thu, 11 Feb 1993 00:20:49 -0500 Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05585; Thu, 11 Feb 93 00:22:34 EST Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 00:18:30 -0500 From: Ian Lumb Subject: Re: Global Address books To: PINE INFO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: It sounds like you've made some significant additions Mike; perhaps you should consider submitting them so that they can be included in a future release of pine? I will definitely give your diffs a try. Thanks for your helpful response, Ian. -- Ian Lumb Internet: Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Mike Cote wrote: > Date: Wed, 10 Feb 1993 13:16:32 -0500 (EST) > From: Mike Cote > To: Terry Gray > Cc: Ian Lumb , > PINE INFO > Subject: Re: Global Address books > > > Ian, Terry: > > As we have both X.500 and whois here at UWO, this topic was one > of the first to come up when we decided to go with pine. > > I've made some changes to our local pine in order to allow some interaction > with a generic directory server program (using whois as the default). With > the work I've done so far you can invoke whois with ^W from either the > 'ADDRESS BOOK' screen or the 'COMPOSE' screen (from the header fields > only). A search key is prompted for and the results displayed as a > 'HELP' screen (I cheated a bit here, but it works nicely). > I've also added a 'directory-access' entry to the .pinerc file, as we're > also working on a local version of whois. > > The next step is to figure out a way to pull an address from the whois > lookup into the appropriate mail header field. At this point the > interface is purely visual. > > For the brave... A diff file containing the whois changes is available > on julian.uwo.ca as ~ftp/pub/unix/mail/pine-3.05/uwo-whois.diff. All > changes are #ifdef'd with 'WHOIS'. Suggestions are welcome. > > ----------- > Mike Cote > Computing and Communications Services > University of Western Ontario Phone: (519) 661-2151, X 6048 > London, Ontario Canada > > > > On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Terry Gray wrote: > > > Ian and Mike, > > Some form of shared address book is definitely on the enhancement list... > > We just need someone to give us one of those "Round TuIt" things :) > > > > One question is whether this should be a simple extension to the personal > > address book (but searched *after* the personal one, or whether it should > > be an interface to whois/x.500/etc, or are both mechanisms desirable? I > > suspect the answer is "both", but comments are welcome. (Obviously the > > former is easier than the latter and would therefore be likely to appear > > sooner!) > > > > -teg > > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 12 04:54:22 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29131; Fri, 12 Feb 93 04:54:22 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13953; Fri, 12 Feb 93 04:47:07 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from itd1.ul.ie by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13947; Fri, 12 Feb 93 04:46:58 -0800 Received: from itdsrv1.ul.ie by ul.ie (PMDF #12091) id <01GUMUXUK7SW8WX0ZO@ul.ie>; Fri, 12 Feb 1993 12:43 GMT Received: by itdsrv1.ul.ie (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA20761; Fri, 12 Feb 93 12:52:05 GMT Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 12:51:41 +0000 (WET) From: Denis Hickey Subject: Problems with From address To: pine-info Reply-To: Denis Hickey Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: O X-Status: I have been using Pine (3.05) on an Ultrix platform for some time and find it excellent. However a problem has arisen over the past few days, which hasme puzzled. On certain messages, the From: field is being incorrectly parsed. Eg. With Header info on here is the From address Ned Freed <<@INTERBIT.BITNET:NED@SIGURD.INNSOFT.COM>> however the message is showing as coming from ned@itdsrv1.ul.ie where itdsrv1.ul.ie is my own domain address. The entry in .pine-debug file is this: Userid: hickeyd Fullname: "Denis Hickey" Password: 3W6wMB93KHTsY User domain name being used "" Local Domain name being used "ul.ie" Host name being used "itdsrv1.ul.ie" Mail Domain name being used "itdsrv1.ul.ie" new win size -----<24 80>------ Terminal type: vt100 About to open folder "inbox" inbox: "inbox" Opened folder "/usr/spool/mail/hickeyd" with 2 messages Sorting by arrival ---- MAIL INDEX ---- IMAP 11:50 2/12 mm_log parse: Must use comma to separate addresses: Freed <<@INTERBIT.bitnet:NED@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM>> IMAP 11:50 2/12 mm_log parse: Must use comma to separate addresses: Freed <<@INTERBIT.bitnet:NED@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM>> Can anyone throw some light on this. Thanks, Denis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Denis Hickey Information Technology Dept Email: Hickeyd@ul.ie University of Limerick Phone: +353-61-333644 Eire ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 12 06:29:11 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00268; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:29:11 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14308; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:23:47 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14302; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:22:44 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA07263; Fri, 12 Feb 1993 09:22:04 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 09:10:07 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade Subject: re: Message ID To: Paul Sutton Cc: Mark Crispin , pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Yes, that's the problem. The only two ways I know to find out a systems domain is to query the hosts table, DNS, NIS... or to read /etc/resolv.conf. The best way to do it is to look it up with DNS, NIS and such, but if you've got the entries in your hosts table unqualified there's not much that can be done. I think you wind up having to have some hueristic that tries to decided if the name you've got is fully qualified or not. (It could have a list of top level domains hard coded or require at least two clauses separated by a dot.) Given that we don't want the method set at compile time there are two choices. (Don't want extra configuration hassle for system administrators since ease of administration is also a Pine goal). 1. Look up the name in /etc/hosts (DNS, NIS or YP) and try and fully qualify it with whats in /etc/resolv.conf if it's not qualified 2. Get the systems idea of the host name (via the hostname() call), decide if it's fully qualified or not and then try and fully qualify it with what's in /etc/resolv.conf Wither case we have to have the hueristic to decide if a name is fully qualified or not, and this seems like a bad idea. Personally, I would suggest just overriding all the look ups by setting the user-domain in the .pinerc or pine.conf files. This does leave the message ID unqualified, but I'd guess the likelyhood of a problem is small. Most applications don't use it, and most host names are unique (unless you use pc1-n, mac1-n or names of planets). Perhaps a solution to this in Pine might be to use the longer of the name looked up in /etc/hosts and the name set in the user-domain variable, assuming the longer is more unique. Hope this makes sense.... LL On Wed, 10 Feb 1993, Paul Sutton wrote: > On Tue, 9 Feb 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote: > > On Tue, 9 Feb 1993, Paul Sutton wrote: > > > I think that the only place that obtains the hostname is the OS specific > > > files (os-unx.c, etc). This is stored into hostname[] for use elsewhere. > > > Based on this assumption I made a simple modification to gethostname() to > > > ensure that hostname[] always had our domain name taked onto its end. > > > > What library calls or other do you use to look up to domain you tack on? > > You might just send the code. > > > > This is a common annoyance with Pine and I would like to see it fixed, but > > in a way that folks installing Pine wouldn't have to worry about it. (No > > compile time configuration). > > I'm afraid I don't do anything clever (or portable!) - just a straight > modification to os-unx.c to force the adding of our domain (which is > hard-coded in, ugh!). (It would be better if it got the domain from the > user-domain, maybe, or from the DNS, but I wanted to make the minimum > amount of changes to the source code so that I could apply it to future > versions without hassle!). > > Still, it works for us, so it may be useful, so here's the context diff > (if you aren't using os-unx as your OS specific files you'll have to apply > this to os-???.c instead). > > *** os-unx.c.orig Thu Sep 17 16:17:23 1992 > --- os-unx.c Thu Sep 17 16:19:31 1992 > *************** > *** 986,991 **** > --- 986,993 ---- > strncpy(hostname, hname, hsize - 1); > } else { > strncpy(hostname, he->h_name, hsize-1); > + if (strindex(hostname, '.') == NULL) > + strcat(hostname, ".brad.ac.uk"); > } > hostname[hsize-1] = '\0'; > > > Paul > -- > Paul Sutton | Computer Centre, University of Bradford, > P.C.Sutton@bradford.ac.uk | Bradford, UK. Tel +44.274.383319 > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 12 06:35:46 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00444; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:35:46 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14321; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:30:46 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14315; Fri, 12 Feb 93 06:30:44 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA07285; Fri, 12 Feb 1993 09:27:42 -0500 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 09:24:27 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Problems with From address To: Denis Hickey Cc: pine-info In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: It's not a legal RFC-822 address is all the problem: "Ned Freed <<@INTERBIT.BITNET:NED@SIGURD.INNSOFT.COM>>" It shouldn't have the double "<". I don't know where they are coming from, but it looks like some gateway is not doing the right thing. Perhaps Mark can shed some more light on this. LL On Fri, 12 Feb 1993, Denis Hickey wrote: > > With Header info on here is the From address > > Ned Freed <<@INTERBIT.BITNET:NED@SIGURD.INNSOFT.COM>> > > however the message is showing as coming from > > ned@itdsrv1.ul.ie where itdsrv1.ul.ie is my own domain address. > > The entry in .pine-debug file is this: > > > ---- MAIL INDEX ---- > IMAP 11:50 2/12 mm_log parse: Must use comma to separate addresses: Freed <<@INTERBIT.bitnet:NED@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM>> > IMAP 11:50 2/12 mm_log parse: Must use comma to separate addresses: Freed <<@INTERBIT.bitnet:NED@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM>> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Denis Hickey Information Technology Dept Email: Hickeyd@ul.ie > University of Limerick Phone: +353-61-333644 > Eire > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 12 14:14:15 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12834; Fri, 12 Feb 93 14:14:15 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18000; Fri, 12 Feb 93 14:07:44 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17994; Fri, 12 Feb 93 14:07:42 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA05510; Fri, 12 Feb 93 14:07:38 -0800 Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 13:59:47 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: Problems with From address To: Denis Hickey Cc: pine-info In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Denis - The problem is with the two angle brackets in the address Ned Freed <<@INTERBIT.BITNET:NED@SIGURD.INNOSOFT.COM>> This totally confuses Pine's parser, which looks for addresses in the following order: human name <@relay:user@host> human name user@host user What happens is that ``Ned'' satisfies the final rule. It then expects to see a comma or the end of string; instead, it encounters ``Freed''. Garbage In, Garbage Out... ;-) My suspicion is that the INTERBIT gateway was responsible for this. Most likely, it left Ned's machine as Ned Freed and the INTERBIT gateway has a rule that says ``turn user@host into '', failing to check for the address already being in the bracketed format. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to assist you in composing a bug report to the INTERBIT gateway maintainer. -- Mark -- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 12 21:28:03 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19993; Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:28:03 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20814; Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:22:38 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from haas.Berkeley.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20808; Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:22:37 -0800 Received: by haas.berkeley.edu (5.65/Haas-1.34) id AA04690; Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:17:20 -0800 From: philip@haas.berkeley.edu (Philip Enteles) Message-Id: <9302130517.AA04690@haas.berkeley.edu> Subject: pine-send????.? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Fri, 12 Feb 93 21:17:19 PST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: RO X-Status: Hello, I am having a problem with pine 3.05 running on a DEC 5000/133, Ultrix 4.2A. I don't know how long it's been going on but it was just brought to my attention. What happens is pine sometimes stores mail in /tmp. The tech notes says that it does this and then starts sendmail in the background to send these off. The store part seems to be happening but sendmail never sends them out. I don't think it happens a lot or /tmp would be filling up every day. I have > 600 users using pine and only one person has complained but I have about 15 messages up to 3 days old after which cron removes them so I am not sure how many have been removed. I have many pleased pine users but I have to solve this problem ASAP. By the way all the messages seem to have good headers. Thanks -- Philip Enteles Network Administrator philip@haas.berkeley.edu University of California, Berkeley 510-642-4436 "Shake your hand,,,,Shake your hand" From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 13 03:37:09 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24323; Sat, 13 Feb 93 03:37:09 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22015; Sat, 13 Feb 93 03:32:40 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uu5.psi.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22009; Sat, 13 Feb 93 03:32:38 -0800 Received: from teraluna.UUCP by uu5.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA12806 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 93 06:19:07 -0500 Received: by TerraLuna.Org (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Sat, 13 Feb 93 06:19:35 EST for pine-info@cac.washington.edu To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: MSDOS Port of Pine? From: stevegt@terraluna.org (Steve Traugott) Message-Id: <09PwyB1w165w@TerraLuna.Org> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 93 06:11:08 EST Organization: ---TerraLuna------* ...Evolution at Work Status: O X-Status: In the Pine blurb on ftp sites, there's a mention of a port of Pine to the MS-DOS platform being "well underway". I'm looking for a good mail reader to port to the Waffle (an MS-DOS UUCP package) environment, to replace Waffle's stock reader. Does anyone know if the MS-DOS Pine port is still in progress, does it have a projected release date, who's doing it, what sorts of problems are they having if it's taking this long... I'm ready to do the port myself, but don't want to duplicate effort nor get into something that's infeasable. Any word on this? Steve --- . . ` * Steve Traugott ` . * + stevegt@TerraLuna.Org ...Evolution of Organizations + ` . . stevegt@well.sf.ca.us Unix/Internet Systems Engineer . stevegt@TerraLuna.SpaceCoast.Org Currently Contracting in Kingston N.Y. . UUs-L@UBVM.BITNET List Manager From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 13 08:52:04 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27153; Sat, 13 Feb 93 08:52:04 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01988; Sat, 13 Feb 93 08:40:14 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01982; Sat, 13 Feb 93 08:40:12 -0800 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17247; Sat, 13 Feb 93 08:40:04 -0800 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 08:15:24 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: MSDOS Port of Pine? To: Steve Traugott Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <09PwyB1w165w@TerraLuna.Org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Steve, PC-Pine is *still* "well underway" :) Our best guess at the moment is that we'll have a general beta release ready in about 4 weeks (around the ides of March :) We *think* that release will be pretty stable, in terms of the key functionality; in fact, it appears to be pretty stable now, but we still need to sort out some issues on folder namespaces (especially remote folders) and mailbox driver control. And yes, it was a *lot* harder than it looked. Mostly trying to squeeze things into a 640K address space, while still being able to deal with arbitrarily large mailboxes and arbitrarily large MIME attachments. (We won't talk about the weeks lost discovering and working around Microsoft bugs...) All of the work has been done by Mike Seibel, who has been working on it for 7 months, at about 80 hours a week, with low-level library support from Mark Crispin. The functionality is equivalent to the Unix version except that it doesn't have a spelling checker yet, plus it has a few new things that will also show up in the next Unix version. (Anyone have a spelling checker that is fast and doesn't use any memory? :) It is also mouse-aware (though not a true Windows app.) The initial release will include versions for packet driver (based on WATTCP), Novel LWP, and PC-TCP stacks. -teg On Sat, 13 Feb 1993, Steve Traugott wrote: > In the Pine blurb on ftp sites, there's a mention of a port of Pine > to the MS-DOS platform being "well underway". > > I'm looking for a good mail reader to port to the Waffle (an MS-DOS > UUCP package) environment, to replace Waffle's stock reader. > > Does anyone know if the MS-DOS Pine port is still in progress, does > it have a projected release date, who's doing it, what sorts of > problems are they having if it's taking this long... > > I'm ready to do the port myself, but don't want to duplicate effort > nor get into something that's infeasable. Any word on this? > > Steve > > --- . . ` * > Steve Traugott ` . * + stevegt@TerraLuna.Org > ...Evolution of Organizations + ` . . stevegt@well.sf.ca.us > Unix/Internet Systems Engineer . stevegt@TerraLuna.SpaceCoast.Org > Currently Contracting in Kingston N.Y. . UUs-L@UBVM.BITNET List Manager > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 13 11:55:56 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28857; Sat, 13 Feb 93 11:55:56 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24027; Sat, 13 Feb 93 11:43:18 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24021; Sat, 13 Feb 93 11:43:17 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA06281; Sat, 13 Feb 93 11:43:12 -0800 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA12623; Sat, 13 Feb 93 11:43:05 -0800 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 11:12:09 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: MSDOS Port of Pine? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 13 Feb 1993 08:15:24 -0800 (PST), Terry Gray wrote: > And yes, it was a *lot* harder than it looked. Mostly trying to squeeze > things into a 640K address space, while still being able to deal with > arbitrarily large mailboxes and arbitrarily large MIME attachments. > (We won't talk about the weeks lost discovering and working around > Microsoft bugs...) All of the work has been done by Mike Seibel, who has > been working on it for 7 months, at about 80 hours a week, with low-level > library support from Mark Crispin. The work done in c-client (which is really more like a ``kernel'' than a ``library'' these days) would make an interesting case study: how you convince software that was written with a ``memory is cheaper than bandwidth'' frame of mind to run on a machine where the exact opposite is true? What ended up being done was rather clever, if I could be so immodest. The first step, and perhaps the least used, was the ability to purge the c-client caches (or selected parts thereof). I say ``least used'' because it turned out that wasn't enough by a long shot. There's a lesson in this for people who think the IMAP2bis ``PURGE'' functionality is helpful. The second step was to control the scope of the caches. Eliminating message text caching happened early on, along with a mechanism to pipe the data through a routine rather than praying that it'd be a short enough (char *) string to fit inside a 64K DOS segment. The next to go was envelope caching; while a big performance win it did take up a surprising amount of memory. The final step was putting all cache management under the control of a cache manager routine which can be overridden by the main program (and is overridden by PC Pine). This mechanism is amazingly flexible, and Mike has done things with his cache manager to poor ol' c-client's data structures that I never dreamed possible -- not to mention possibly illegal under the morality laws of certain states.......;-) Using the cache manager capability, a fully-functional c-client can be induced to use no memory at all modulo temporary storage. The result is a version of Pine that runs competantly (if somewhat slowly) even on an XT! From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 13 13:55:20 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00156; Sat, 13 Feb 93 13:55:20 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24444; Sat, 13 Feb 93 13:48:42 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uu5.psi.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24438; Sat, 13 Feb 93 13:48:39 -0800 Received: from teraluna.UUCP by uu5.psi.com (5.65b/4.0.071791-PSI/PSINet) via UUCP; id AA27542 for ; Sat, 13 Feb 93 16:31:04 -0500 Received: by TerraLuna.Org (1.65/waf) via UUCP; Sat, 13 Feb 93 16:25:34 EST for pine-info@cac.washington.edu To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: Re: MSDOS Port of Pine? From: stevegt@terraluna.org (Steve Traugott) Message-Id: Date: Sat, 13 Feb 93 15:57:34 EST Organization: ---TerraLuna------* ...Evolution at Work Status: O X-Status: Terry Gray writes: > PC-Pine is *still* "well underway" :) > And yes, it was a *lot* harder than it looked. Mostly trying to squeeze > things into a 640K address space, while still being able to deal with > arbitrarily large mailboxes and arbitrarily large MIME attachments. > (We won't talk about the weeks lost discovering and working around > Microsoft bugs...) All of the work has been done by Mike Seibel, who has > been working on it for 7 months, at about 80 hours a week, with low-level > library support from Mark Crispin. Goodness! I'm glad I asked. Some credit is definitely due there. I've just started porting the 'tin' newsreader, and haven't yet gotten anywhere near running make, let alone trying to load the thing. Here's hoping 'tin' is small enough... > Our best guess at the moment is that we'll have a general beta release > ready in about 4 weeks (around the ides of March :) I'll keep my eyes open. Is the beta going to be copied to the ftp directory? Steve --- . . ` * Steve Traugott ` . * + stevegt@TerraLuna.Org ...Evolution of Organizations + ` . . stevegt@well.sf.ca.us Unix/Internet Systems Engineer . stevegt@TerraLuna.SpaceCoast.Org Currently Contracting in Kingston N.Y. . UUs-L@UBVM.BITNET List Manager From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sat Feb 13 14:19:03 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00486; Sat, 13 Feb 93 14:19:03 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03139; Sat, 13 Feb 93 14:12:08 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03133; Sat, 13 Feb 93 14:12:07 -0800 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19733; Sat, 13 Feb 93 14:12:01 -0800 Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 14:00:02 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Gray Subject: Re: MSDOS Port of Pine? To: Steve Traugott Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Sat, 13 Feb 1993, Steve Traugott wrote: > I've just started porting the 'tin' newsreader, and haven't yet > gotten anywhere near running make, let alone trying to load the > thing. Here's hoping 'tin' is small enough... Incidentally, one of the things we've been working on in the background in mail and news integration. For sites that store news on the same machine that has user home directories (in particular, .newsrc files), it is possible to use Pine/IMAP for reading news today, though more work is needed on the user interface. Mark has just finished the first cut of an NNTP driver for C-client, so we expect that PC-Pine will be able to read news using either a central .newsrc model via IMAP, or a local/desktop .newsrc model via NNTP. Not sure how soon we'll have the pieces together, but it is coming. We haven't done anything about posting yet. I'm sure tin will have superior news reading functionality for awhile anyway, but we think there is merit in providing a common UI to both worlds. > I'll keep my eyes open. Is the beta going to be copied to the ftp > directory? Definitely. And of course there will be an anouncement posted to pine-info and pine-announce. -teg From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Feb 15 00:59:12 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20947; Mon, 15 Feb 93 00:59:12 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10218; Mon, 15 Feb 93 00:50:37 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10212; Mon, 15 Feb 93 00:50:34 -0800 Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <16947-0@susssys1.reading.ac.uk>; Mon, 15 Feb 1993 08:49:29 +0000 Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1993 08:44:15 +0000 (GMT) From: Mike Roch Subject: Posting News Items from within Pine To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="587204512-2052408702-729766085:#16206" Status: O X-Status: --587204512-2052408702-729766085:#16206 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII There's been some discussion lately about using Pine as a newsreader. We've set this up here and are delighted with the functionality. Version 3.05 does not offer an option to post messages, but posting _can_ be done from within Pine using a post-news-via-mail service. The only host I know of is that mentioned in the attached message. I've verified that it works, but it took four or five days to appear as "news" back here. Mike =================================================================== Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, D.M.Roch@Reading.ac.uk University of Reading, Tel: 0734 318430 Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX. Fax: 0734 753094 --587204512-2052408702-729766085:#16206 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: Content-Description: Forwarded message 'Re: Posting news item via e-mail' Path: reading!uknet!doc.ic.ac.uk!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!howland.reston.ans.net!usc!sdd.hp.com!cs.utexas.edu!not-for-mail From: scott@amex-trs.com (Scott Reinhardt) Newsgroups: comp.mail.misc Subject: Re: Posting news item via e-mail Message-ID: <9302051525.AA53112@tonga> Date: 5 Feb 93 15:44:14 GMT Sender: daemon@cs.utexas.edu Organization: UTexas Mail-to-News Gateway Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: cs.utexas.edu Reply-To: 3374731@MCIMail.com Roch Saumure writes: >I have an account at university from where I can send e-mail but cannot >access usenet. I would like to know how I can post news items from university >by using e-mail. There are several ways to send mail to post to a newgroup. Here is one, and the way that this message was posted. comp-mail-misc@cs.utexas.edu Where: comp-mail-misc is one's favorite newsgroup delimited by dashes (-) instead of the customary dot (.) format. There are a few hosts that will post for you, but my doc file seems to be missing. Scott Scott Reinhardt (602) 548-4731 -CS90's Project UI Development Professional Software Consultants, Phoenix, AZ -American Express scott@AMEX-TRS.com -or- 73230.2401@CompuServe.com -or- 3374731@MCIMail.com CompuServe: 73230,2401 MCI Mail: 337-4731 you, but my doc file seems to be missing. Scott Scott Reinhardt (602) 548-4731 -CS90's Project UI Development Professional Software Consultants, Phoenix, AZ -American Express scott@AMEX-TRS.com -or- 73230.2401@CompuServe.com -or- 3374731@MCIMail.com CompuServe: 73230,2401 MCI Mail: 337-4731 --587204512-2052408702-729766085:#16206-- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Feb 16 03:36:34 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10827; Tue, 16 Feb 93 03:36:34 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16693; Tue, 16 Feb 93 03:27:27 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16687; Tue, 16 Feb 93 03:27:22 -0800 Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <22251-0@susssys1.reading.ac.uk>; Tue, 16 Feb 1993 11:22:44 +0000 Message-Id: <6687.9302161123@suma1> X-Mailer: Eudora 1.3b109 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 11:25:02 +0000 To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu From: Mike Roch X-Sender: suqroch@suma1.rdg.ac.uk Subject: Pine, bytes and parity. Cc: Hilary Vines x8437 , Noel Lynch x8435 Status: O X-Status: We're having problems with some of our X25 connected terminals and Pine. Our comms expert tells me that all Pine output to the screen is 8 bit with the top bit unset; Pine demands that input is also in this form. We see no problems with telnet sessions, nor with serial terminals that are set to 8 bit no parity. Is it possible for Pine to communicate properly with a 7 bit terminal? Mike From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Feb 16 08:28:23 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14889; Tue, 16 Feb 93 08:28:23 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18571; Tue, 16 Feb 93 08:19:09 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18564; Tue, 16 Feb 93 08:19:05 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA06394; Tue, 16 Feb 1993 11:18:47 -0500 Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 11:09:02 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Pine, bytes and parity. To: Mike Roch Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, Hilary Vines x8437 , Noel Lynch x8435 In-Reply-To: <6687.9302161123@suma1> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Pine uses cbreak mode, at least on BSD based UNIX's, which I believe implies the terminal driver generates the parity. The first thing to check would be the tty parameters. If Pine where running in RAW more then it would be different. Also, if you're running Pine on a System V box this might be different, but I suspect the problem is still in the tty driver settings. It is a little different if you set the character-set parameter to iso-8859-X. Then Pine sets up the tty a little different (stty pass8) and expects 8 bit input. Otherwise Pine ignores all bits above the 7th. It does this intentionally to be tolerant of incorrect parity settings. When 8 bit characters are used, obviously it can't ignore the eigth bit. I guess I don't have an exact answer, but in general Pine doesn't know much about the parity and number of bits sent. LL On Tue, 16 Feb 1993, Mike Roch wrote: > We're having problems with some of our X25 connected terminals and Pine. > > Our comms expert tells me that all Pine output to the screen is 8 bit with > the top bit unset; Pine demands that input is also in this form. We see no > problems with telnet sessions, nor with serial terminals that are set to 8 > bit no parity. > > Is it possible for Pine to communicate properly with a 7 bit terminal? > > Mike > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Feb 16 10:06:46 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18595; Tue, 16 Feb 93 10:06:46 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24880; Tue, 16 Feb 93 09:56:42 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from starburst.umd.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24825; Tue, 16 Feb 93 09:56:36 -0800 Received: by starburst.umd.edu (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0) id AA08097; Tue, 16 Feb 93 12:54:11 EST From: jon@starburst.umd.edu (Jonathan Kruger) Message-Id: <9302161754.AA08097@starburst.umd.edu> Subject: Port for BSDI? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Tue, 16 Feb 93 12:54:10 EST Organization: Chesapeake Biological Laboratory X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: O X-Status: Does anyone know if a port of Pine has been done or is underway for BSDI? The "build bsd" command gets you nowhere fast... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Jonathan Kruger | "Nothing will benefit human health and increase the jon@cbl.umd.edu | chances for survival of life on earth as much as the Chesapeake Bio Lab | evolution to a vegetarian diet." -- Albert Einstein From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 18 07:37:52 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10498; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:37:52 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27299; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:24:57 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from lipschitz.sfasu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27292; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:24:55 -0800 Received: by lipschitz.sfasu.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0M) id AA01150; Thu, 18 Feb 93 09:24:37 -0600 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 09:23:46 -0600 (GMT-0600) From: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" Reply-To: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" Subject: Continued NiXED support? To: Pine Info List Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Will there be continued support of NeXT machines? Does anyone out there have problems forwarding mail on a NeXT? Pine sometimes dies with a "Segmentation fault" when I forward mail. -- kc From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 18 07:40:51 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10534; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:40:51 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27388; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:32:50 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from jester.usask.ca by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27382; Thu, 18 Feb 93 07:32:34 -0800 Received: by jester.usask.ca (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA08089; Thu, 18 Feb 93 09:32:18 -0600 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 09:21:39 -0600 (CST) From: Earl Fogel Subject: maintaining mailing lists with Pine To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: One of our uses has been maintaining a mailing list with DISMAN on a VAX, but has run into all sorts of problems with bounced and repeating messages. He's asked us to set up LISTSERV software to use instead, but I wondered if there was another alternative -- Pine. So, what experiences do people have maintaining mailing lists with Pine? How big are your mailing lists, and how well do they work? Is Pine-Info maintained with Pine? Thanks, Earl Fogel ------------------------------------------------------------------- fogel@jester.usask.ca Computing Services, Room 56 Physics Phone: (306) 966-4861 University of Saskatchewan Fax: (306) 966-4938 Saskatoon, Sask. CANADA, S7N 0W0 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 18 11:57:35 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17306; Thu, 18 Feb 93 11:57:35 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23757; Thu, 18 Feb 93 11:46:22 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mercury.unt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23713; Thu, 18 Feb 93 11:46:17 -0800 Received: from sol.acs.unt.edu by mercury.unt.edu with SMTP id AA25309 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 18 Feb 1993 13:46:14 -0600 Received: by sol.acs.unt.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA18392; Thu, 18 Feb 93 13:46:12 CST Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 13:43:54 -0600 (CST) From: "Amos A. Gouaux" Subject: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05 To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Pine Folks: We have just installed pine-3.05 on our Solbourne (sparc) 5e/902 running an adaptation of SunOS 4.1.1. I would like to know how to use ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico. I tried using the SPELL environmental variable without luck. I noticed the emacs interface calls ispell with the "-A" option so I tired that too. Is there any way I can get ispell to work? Please mail responses. Thanks in advance. amos amos@unt.edu Amos A. Gouaux (817) 565-2324 -= Academic Computing Services, University of North Texas, Denton, TX, USA. =- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 18 13:26:36 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19378; Thu, 18 Feb 93 13:26:36 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA04719; Thu, 18 Feb 93 13:16:43 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA04669; Thu, 18 Feb 93 13:16:38 -0800 Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9221>; Thu, 18 Feb 1993 16:16:23 -0500 Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11172; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:18:19 EST Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 16:16:56 -0500 From: Ian Lumb Subject: Re: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05 To: PINE INFO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: I have also tried this and obtained similar results :-( (In fact, I posted a similar message to this group.) This would be a really **nice** feature to add to pine ... Ian. -- Ian Lumb Internet: Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 On Thu, 18 Feb 1993, Amos A. Gouaux wrote: > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 13:43:54 -0600 (CST) > From: Amos A. Gouaux > To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu > Subject: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05 > > Pine Folks: > > We have just installed pine-3.05 on our Solbourne (sparc) 5e/902 > running an adaptation of SunOS 4.1.1. I would like to know how to > use ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico. I tried using the SPELL environmental > variable without luck. I noticed the emacs interface calls ispell with > the "-A" option so I tired that too. Is there any way I can get ispell > to work? > > Please mail responses. Thanks in advance. > > amos > > > amos@unt.edu Amos A. Gouaux (817) 565-2324 > -= Academic Computing Services, University of North Texas, Denton, TX, USA. =- > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 18 14:50:16 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21390; Thu, 18 Feb 93 14:50:16 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10483; Thu, 18 Feb 93 14:41:34 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10426; Thu, 18 Feb 93 14:41:26 -0800 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22462; Thu, 18 Feb 93 14:41:19 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 14:05:40 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Seibel Subject: Re: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05 To: "Amos A. Gouaux" , Ian Lumb Cc: PINE INFO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Thanks, to you both, for the suggestion! Pine's integrated spelling function is pretty limited right now, and improving this is on the list for the future. In the mean time, there's a neat work around courtesy of the "editor=" variable in your .pinerc. Setting this to "ispell" (may need to specify the full path), will cause the "^_ Alt Edit" label to appear on the key prompt line when the cursor is in the body of your composition. Hitting ctrl-underscore will launch ispell on the contents of your message, and drop you back into the composer with the new text when ispell exits. Haven't played with this much myself, but I hope it helps... Michael Seibel Networks and Distributed Computing mikes@cac.washington.edu University of Washington, Seattle (206) 543 - 0359 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 18 16:42:20 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24436; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:42:20 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02693; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:35:14 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from norman.nwnet.net by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02687; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:35:12 -0800 Received: by norman.nwnet.net (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25384; Thu, 18 Feb 93 16:35:12 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 16:29:49 -0800 (PST) From: Bob Carlitz {NWNet} Subject: pine doesn't like Florida To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Messages coming in from firn (the Florida school network) now cause pine to die a horrible death. Attached below is a sample. Put this in a pine folder, and you can see pine wither. I have seen similar behavior under SunOS and Ultrix, both with version 3.05. The firn headers look a little odd to me, but I don't see anything obviously wrong with them. The Alternate-recipient and Disclose-recipients headers are something new to me. I'm not sure if they have been part of the firn headers previously. Cheers! Bob Carlitz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From JOHNSA@mail.firn.edu Tue Feb 16 13:02:52 1993 Received: from nic.cerf.net by hamlet.phyast.pitt.edu (4.1/1.34) id AA04879; Tue, 16 Feb 93 13:02:39 EST Received: from FIRNVX.FIRN.EDU by nic.cerf.net (4.1/CERFnet-1.0) id AA24264; Tue, 16 Feb 93 09:55:56 PST Received: with SMTP-MR; Tue, 16 Feb 1993 12:54:55 EST Mr-Received: by mta FIRNVX; Relayed; Tue, 16 Feb 1993 12:54:55 -0500 (EST) Alternate-Recipient: prohibited Disclose-Recipients: prohibited Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 17:46:00 EST From: "Ann S. Johnson 813-361-6472, Ext. 31, ext. 32" Subject: Veil Joze To: fred-hilites@cerf.net Message-Id: <01GUSGIAJOYI0013ZN@FIRNVX.FIRN.EDU> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 17:52:00 EST Importance: normal Priority: normal X400-Mts-Identifier: [;55452161203991/141602@FIRNVX] A1-Format: A1-Type: MAIL Hop-Count: 0 Status: RO X-Status: Please send me more information on your project Veli Joze. We are a middle school in Sarasota, Florida, using the modem from the media center. I am wondering what our obligation would be in addition to the pen pal letters? I have 3 students interested in this project. Would the letters be sent by e-mail? or by surface mail from our end? Is this an open-ended project? How would replies from Veli Joze be received? We really would like more information. Thanks, Ann Johnson media specialist Brookside Middle School 3636 S. Shade Ave. Sarasota, Fla. 34329 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 18 18:53:09 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27293; Thu, 18 Feb 93 18:53:09 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03583; Thu, 18 Feb 93 18:42:26 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03577; Thu, 18 Feb 93 18:42:24 -0800 Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA04091; Thu, 18 Feb 93 18:42:20 -0800 Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 18:33:06 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: pine doesn't like Florida To: Bob Carlitz {NWNet} Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="16819560-2078917053-730089740:#4070" Status: O X-Status: --16819560-2078917053-730089740:#4070 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Bob - Thank you for your bug report, and for providing sample data that causes the problem. This problem is a c-client bug in handling invalid MIME data. The cause of the crash is evil data in the headers; the message claims to be in MIME format (``Mime-Version: 1.0''), and there is a ``Content-Type:'' header line. However, there is no data for that header. The parser detected the error and declined to attempt to parse the Content-Type: information. Unfortunately, the error case was bundled with the ``not a Content-Type header, try Content-Transfer-Encoding'' case, and it fell into that code with invalid context. The fix was to implement the error case separately. A patch to the c-client module rfc822.c is MIME attached to this message. Please let me know if you need any assistance in installing this patch on your system. If you could, please also ask your correspondent at Florida to inquire as to what could be causing her mailer to send invalid MIME data to you. I guess this is an X.400/MIME gateway that is behind all this, but there is inadequate information to be sure. -- Mark -- --16819560-2078917053-730089740:#4070 Content-Type: APPLICATION/OCTET-DATA; NAME="rfc822.c.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-Description: attached file KioqIHJmYzgyMi5jfglGcmkgSmFuIDIyIDE4OjQzOjQxIDE5OTMKLS0tIHJm YzgyMi5jCVRodSBGZWIgMTggMTY6NTQ6MjUgMTk5MwoqKioqKioqKioqKioq KioKKioqIDEwLDE2ICoqKioKICAgKgkJSW50ZXJuZXQ6IE1SQ0BDQUMuV2Fz aGluZ3Rvbi5FRFUKICAgKgogICAqIERhdGU6CTI3IEp1bHkgMTk4OAohICAq IExhc3QgRWRpdGVkOgkyMiBKYW51YXJ5IDE5OTMKICAgKgogICAqIFNwb25z b3JzaGlwOglUaGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiB0aGlzIHdvcmsgd2Fz IGRldmVsb3BlZCBpbiB0aGUKICAgKgkJU3ltYm9saWMgU3lzdGVtcyBSZXNv dXJjZXMgR3JvdXAgb2YgdGhlIEtub3dsZWRnZSBTeXN0ZW1zCi0tLSAxMCwx NiAtLS0tCiAgICoJCUludGVybmV0OiBNUkNAQ0FDLldhc2hpbmd0b24uRURV CiAgICoKICAgKiBEYXRlOgkyNyBKdWx5IDE5ODgKISAgKiBMYXN0IEVkaXRl ZDoJMTggRmVicnVhcnkgMTk5MwogICAqCiAgICogU3BvbnNvcnNoaXA6CVRo ZSBvcmlnaW5hbCB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIHRoaXMgd29yayB3YXMgZGV2ZWxvcGVk IGluIHRoZQogICAqCQlTeW1ib2xpYyBTeXN0ZW1zIFJlc291cmNlcyBHcm91 cCBvZiB0aGUgS25vd2xlZGdlIFN5c3RlbXMKKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqCioq KiA2MzMsNjQwICoqKioKICAgICAgICBib2R5LT5kZXNjcmlwdGlvbiA9IGNw eXN0ciAocyk7CiAgICAgIGJyZWFrOwogICAgY2FzZSAnVCc6CQkJLyogcG9z c2libGUgQ29udGVudC1UeXBlL1RyYW5zZmVyLUVuY29kaW5nICovCiEgICAg IGlmICgoIShzdHJjbXAgKG5hbWUrMSwiWVBFIikgfHwgYm9keS0+dHlwZSB8 fCBib2R5LT5zdWJ0eXBlIHx8CiEgCSAgIGJvZHktPnBhcmFtZXRlcikpICYm CShuYW1lID0gcmZjODIyX3BhcnNlX3dvcmQgKHMscHRzcGVjaWFscykpKSB7 CiAgICAgICAgYyA9ICpuYW1lOwkJLyogcmVtZW1iZXIgZGVsaW1pdGVyICov CiAgICAgICAgKm5hbWUgPSAnXDAnOwkJLyogdGllIG9mZiB0eXBlICovCiAg ICAgICAgdWNhc2UgKHMpOwkJLyogc2VhcmNoIGZvciBib2R5IHR5cGUgKi8K LS0tIDYzMyw2NDIgLS0tLQogICAgICAgIGJvZHktPmRlc2NyaXB0aW9uID0g Y3B5c3RyIChzKTsKICAgICAgYnJlYWs7CiAgICBjYXNlICdUJzoJCQkvKiBw b3NzaWJsZSBDb250ZW50LVR5cGUvVHJhbnNmZXItRW5jb2RpbmcgKi8KISAg ICAgaWYgKCEoc3RyY21wIChuYW1lKzEsIllQRSIpIHx8IGJvZHktPnR5cGUg fHwgYm9keS0+c3VidHlwZSB8fAohIAkgIGJvZHktPnBhcmFtZXRlcikpIHsK ISAJCQkJLyogZ2V0IHR5cGUgd29yZCAqLwohICAgICAgIGlmICghKG5hbWUg PSByZmM4MjJfcGFyc2Vfd29yZCAocyxwdHNwZWNpYWxzKSkpIGJyZWFrOwog ICAgICAgIGMgPSAqbmFtZTsJCS8qIHJlbWVtYmVyIGRlbGltaXRlciAqLwog ICAgICAgICpuYW1lID0gJ1wwJzsJCS8qIHRpZSBvZmYgdHlwZSAqLwogICAg ICAgIHVjYXNlIChzKTsJCS8qIHNlYXJjaCBmb3IgYm9keSB0eXBlICovCioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKgoqKiogNzAzLDcwOSAqKioqCiAgICAgICAgaWYgKHQg PSBzdHJjaHIgKHVjYXNlIChzKSwnICcpKSAqdCA9ICdcMCc7CiAgCQkJCS8q IHNlYXJjaCBmb3IgYm9keSBlbmNvZGluZyAqLwogICAgICAgIGZvciAoaSA9 IDA7IChpIDwgRU5DT1RIRVIpICYmIHN0cmNtcCAocyxib2R5X2VuY29kaW5n c1tpXSk7IGkrKyk7CiEgICAgICAgYm9keS0+ZW5jb2RpbmcgPSBpOwkJLyog c2V0IGJvZHkgdHlwZSAqLwogICAgICB9CiAgICAgIGJyZWFrOwogICAgZGVm YXVsdDoJCQkvKiBvdGhlcndpc2UgdW5rbm93biAqLwotLS0gNzA1LDcxMSAt LS0tCiAgICAgICAgaWYgKHQgPSBzdHJjaHIgKHVjYXNlIChzKSwnICcpKSAq dCA9ICdcMCc7CiAgCQkJCS8qIHNlYXJjaCBmb3IgYm9keSBlbmNvZGluZyAq LwogICAgICAgIGZvciAoaSA9IDA7IChpIDwgRU5DT1RIRVIpICYmIHN0cmNt cCAocyxib2R5X2VuY29kaW5nc1tpXSk7IGkrKyk7CiEgICAgICAgYm9keS0+ ZW5jb2RpbmcgPSBpOwkvKiBzZXQgYm9keSB0eXBlICovCiAgICAgIH0KICAg ICAgYnJlYWs7CiAgICBkZWZhdWx0OgkJCS8qIG90aGVyd2lzZSB1bmtub3du ICovCg== --16819560-2078917053-730089740:#4070-- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 19 06:34:30 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06096; Fri, 19 Feb 93 06:34:30 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16775; Fri, 19 Feb 93 06:25:56 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16699; Fri, 19 Feb 93 06:25:47 -0800 Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9225>; Fri, 19 Feb 1993 09:25:36 -0500 Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA00529; Fri, 19 Feb 93 09:27:30 EST Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 09:25:39 -0500 From: Ian Lumb Subject: Re: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05 To: Michael Seibel Cc: "Amos A. Gouaux" , PINE INFO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Thanks for the work around Mike. I can see that this has potential, but I like to use this key to launch emacs; I can then access ispell from within emacs. It would be nice to see this feature in a future release of pine, and I am pleased that you have added this to your list :-) Ian. -- Ian Lumb Internet: Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 On Thu, 18 Feb 1993, Michael Seibel wrote: > Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1993 14:05:40 -0800 (PST) > From: Michael Seibel > To: "Amos A. Gouaux" , Ian Lumb > Cc: PINE INFO > Subject: Re: ispell-2.0.02 with pine/pico-3.05 > > Thanks, to you both, for the suggestion! Pine's integrated spelling > function is pretty limited right now, and improving this is on the list > for the future. > > In the mean time, there's a neat work around courtesy of the "editor=" > variable in your .pinerc. Setting this to "ispell" (may need to specify > the full path), will cause the "^_ Alt Edit" label to appear on the key > prompt line when the cursor is in the body of your composition. Hitting > ctrl-underscore will launch ispell on the contents of your message, and > drop you back into the composer with the new text when ispell exits. > > Haven't played with this much myself, but I hope it helps... > > Michael Seibel > Networks and Distributed Computing mikes@cac.washington.edu > University of Washington, Seattle (206) 543 - 0359 > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 19 07:15:44 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06721; Fri, 19 Feb 93 07:15:44 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06648; Fri, 19 Feb 93 07:05:45 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from itd1.ul.ie by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06642; Fri, 19 Feb 93 07:05:35 -0800 Received: from itdsrv1.ul.ie by ul.ie (PMDF #12091) id <01GUWRRPTSEO8WXX2X@ul.ie>; Fri, 19 Feb 1993 15:01 GMT Received: by itdsrv1.ul.ie (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA19970; Fri, 19 Feb 93 15:09:22 GMT Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 15:08:45 +0000 (WET) From: Denis Hickey Subject: re: Problems with From address In-Reply-To: To: Mark Crispin Cc: pine-info Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: O X-Status: Thanks for the help on this matter. The problem has been fixed at the offending gateway. Denis ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Denis Hickey Information Technology Dept Email: Hickeyd@ul.ie University of Limerick Phone: +353-61-333644 Eire ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 19 12:05:20 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14539; Fri, 19 Feb 93 12:05:20 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08548; Fri, 19 Feb 93 11:56:26 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from RUTGERS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08490; Fri, 19 Feb 93 11:56:20 -0800 Received: from mimsy.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) with UUCP id AA05597; Fri, 19 Feb 93 14:30:45 EST Received: by mimsy.UMD.EDU (smail2.5) id AA06936; 19 Feb 93 14:30:23 EST (Fri) Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (via uunet.ca) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA12811; Fri, 19 Feb 93 14:21:44 -0500 Received: from moore by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <9656(2)>; Fri, 19 Feb 1993 14:20:49 -0500 Received: by moore.moore.com (4.1/smail2.5/01-12-90) id AA17977; Fri, 19 Feb 93 14:19:48 EST Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 14:15:52 -0500 From: Paul Maclauchlan Subject: Address expansion To: Pine Info mailing list Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: In the "COMPOSE MESSAGE" screen, typing a nickname from the address book returns the full address and full name. In ELM, the same expansion happens when a local user name is entered. Can this feature be added to PINE, either as default behaviour or as an option? -- .../Paul Maclauchlan Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 paul@moore.com -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul "For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 19 13:56:29 1993 Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18595; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:56:29 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tsippi.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA18587; Fri, 19 Feb 93 13:56:15 -0800 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 13:49:36 -0800 (PST) From: Sheryl Erez Subject: re: maintaining mailing lists with Pine To: Earl Fogel Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Earl, Pine was not designed to handle the administration of mailing lists. Some people use the addressbook feature for very small lists, but that's about it. We have lots of mailing lists (including pine-info) and have turned to other software to manage them. We use a program called Majordomo for managing the pine-info list. Sheryl Erez erez@cac.washington.edu UW Network Information Center On Thu, 18 Feb 1993 09:21:39 -0600 (CST), Earl Fogel wrote: > Subject: maintaining mailing lists with Pine > To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu > > One of our uses has been maintaining a mailing list with DISMAN on a VAX, > but has run into all sorts of problems with bounced and repeating messages. > He's asked us to set up LISTSERV software to use instead, but I wondered > if there was another alternative -- Pine. > > So, what experiences do people have maintaining mailing lists with Pine? > How big are your mailing lists, and how well do they work? Is Pine-Info > maintained with Pine? > > Thanks, > > Earl Fogel > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > fogel@jester.usask.ca Computing Services, Room 56 Physics > Phone: (306) 966-4861 University of Saskatchewan > Fax: (306) 966-4938 Saskatoon, Sask. CANADA, S7N 0W0 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 19 19:54:33 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25377; Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:54:33 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12717; Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:47:31 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12711; Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:47:28 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA14730; Fri, 19 Feb 1993 22:47:00 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 22:43:28 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Address expansion To: Paul Maclauchlan Cc: Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Hello, Pine should do that now. I believe there is one case where it won't do it -- when you explicity set the user-domain in the /usr/local/lib/pine.conf file to be different from the local domain. In this case Pine decides that it doesn't make sense to expand the names. Are you setting user-domain or use-only-domain-name? LL On Fri, 19 Feb 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote: > > In the "COMPOSE MESSAGE" screen, typing a nickname from the address book > returns the full address and full name. In ELM, the same expansion > happens when a local user name is entered. > > Can this feature be added to PINE, either as default behaviour or as an > option? > > -- > .../Paul Maclauchlan > Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 > paul@moore.com -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul > "For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64 > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 19 20:06:07 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25559; Fri, 19 Feb 93 20:06:07 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03992; Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:59:58 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03949; Fri, 19 Feb 93 19:59:53 -0800 Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9221>; Fri, 19 Feb 1993 22:59:47 -0500 Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02330; Fri, 19 Feb 93 23:01:48 EST Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1993 22:52:36 -0500 From: Ian Lumb Reply-To: Ian Lumb Subject: global addressbooks via imapd ??? To: PINE INFO Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Greetings:- We have recently had some interesting discussions re: global addressbooks under pine. Perhaps an addition to our discussion, would be to allow access to addressbooks via imapd. For example, suppose I decide that fred.yorku.ca will be the host that I will use for storing my mail messages, and where I will keep my .addressbook. If I am doing some work on barney.yorku.ca, it would be really nice if the .addressbook on fred.yorku.ca could be consulted via something analogous to imapd for my mail aliases. Currently, I update my .addressbook on fred.yorku.ca, and manually (**gasp**) ftp a copy over to my account on barney.yorku.ca. Ian. -- Ian Lumb Internet: Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sun Feb 21 09:00:26 1993 Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17299; Sun, 21 Feb 93 09:00:26 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17213; Sun, 21 Feb 93 08:50:37 -0800 Received: by ListDist v0.2 for /usr/local/lib/pine-announce.cf Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17207; Sun, 21 Feb 93 08:50:35 -0800 Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00276; Sun, 21 Feb 93 08:50:31 -0800 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11075; Sun, 21 Feb 93 08:50:27 -0800 Reply-To: Terry Gray Message-Id: Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1993 08:47:14 -0800 (PST) From: Terry Gray To: Pine Announcement Distribution Subject: Re: Pine 3.05 on an RS6000 X-Owner: pine-announce-request@cac.washington.edu X-To: Glenn Leavell X-Cc: Raoul Villalpando , pine@cac.washington.edu, pine-announce@cac.washington.edu Status: O X-Status: This has sort of become an FAQ, so here is the current status... -teg ------------------ The next pine release will have a proper AIX 3.2 port, but unfortunately, it won't be ready for a couple of months. The good news is, the AIX 3.2 port contributor, John Eisenmenger at Duke, has made a port of the current pine version, v3.05, available to the net. A copy is available via anonymous ftp from ftp.egr.duke.edu in the directory "archives/network" under the filename "pine3.05a.tar.Z". From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sun Feb 21 14:31:07 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20825; Sun, 21 Feb 93 14:31:07 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26418; Sun, 21 Feb 93 14:17:17 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from dns1.NMSU.Edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26372; Sun, 21 Feb 93 14:17:12 -0800 From: tbaker@NMSU.Edu Received: from dante (dante.NMSU.Edu) by NMSU.Edu (4.1/NMSU-1.18) id AA28225; Sun, 21 Feb 93 15:17:09 MST Message-Id: <9302212217.AA28225@NMSU.Edu> Received: by dante (4.1/NMSU) id AA24114; Sun, 21 Feb 93 15:17:04 MST Subject: I am no longer in charge of Pine, please unsub To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Sun, 21 Feb 93 15:17:03 MST X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] Status: O X-Status: I am no longer in charge of Pine and would like to be unsubscribed from the list. I have enjoyed the support offered for Pine and wish that other applications offered the same. If this gets out to everyone on the list, I apologize to you for having to read it... I don't know where else to send it to. Sorry bout using ELM for this, Pine is being rebuilt on another disk and I don't have access to it yet :) Good health to you! Trevor Baker tbaker@nmsu.edu I'm a student: donations and gifts of money or food graciously accepted! From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sun Feb 21 17:13:08 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22376; Sun, 21 Feb 93 17:13:08 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21885; Sun, 21 Feb 93 17:05:41 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21879; Sun, 21 Feb 93 17:05:39 -0800 Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA08597; Sun, 21 Feb 93 17:05:34 -0800 Date: Sun, 21 Feb 1993 16:53:20 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: global addressbooks via imapd ??? To: Ian Lumb Cc: PINE INFO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Ian - Thank you for your suggestion. The idea of distributing address book information has been on the list of ideas for a long time. You aren't the only person who has been annoyed by having to FTP around copies of the address book every time a trivial update is made!! It isn't necessarily desirable to do it in imapd, since you may want to distribute address book information in non-IMAP environments as well. Also, you may have multiple IMAP servers in an organization which will give you all the problems that having separate address books on clients would. In the draft IMSP (IMAP support protocol) definition I read, CMU suggests that address books may be part of directory service. This makes a lot of sense to me. In any case, I think we will need to do something about distributing address books. I hope it's ``sooner'' rather than ``later''! ;-) -- Mark -- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Feb 22 12:03:11 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09292; Mon, 22 Feb 93 12:03:11 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07398; Mon, 22 Feb 93 11:42:16 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from RUTGERS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07348; Mon, 22 Feb 93 11:42:09 -0800 Received: from mimsy.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) with UUCP id AA23050; Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:08:48 EST Received: by mimsy.UMD.EDU (smail2.5) id AA26717; 22 Feb 93 13:08:16 EST (Mon) Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (via uunet.ca) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA25925; Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:04:46 -0500 Received: from moore by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <9645(3)>; Mon, 22 Feb 1993 13:04:41 -0500 Received: by moore.moore.com (4.1/smail2.5/01-12-90) id AA07552; Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:03:45 EST Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 12:58:04 -0500 From: Paul Maclauchlan Subject: Printing and Windows To: Pine Info mailing list Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: One of my users is having problems printing Pine stuff via ProComm Plus for Windows. For example, say he wants to print one of the help screens... he gets the screen up on his display and presses L. The Windows Print Manager is started but nothing is printed. Ok, so he tries to use the "Capture" facility to log the session. Only the first screen and the last screen appear in the log, even if all the help pages displayed on his screen. Any ideas? BTW, we have had no problems using ProComm or ProComm Plus in DOS. -- .../Paul Maclauchlan Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 paul@moore.com -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul "For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Feb 22 14:02:48 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13980; Mon, 22 Feb 93 14:02:48 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28582; Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:54:13 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from lipschitz.sfasu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28576; Mon, 22 Feb 93 13:54:04 -0800 Received: by lipschitz.sfasu.edu (NX5.67c/NX3.0M) id AA04519; Mon, 22 Feb 93 15:53:35 -0600 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 15:45:53 -0600 (GMT-0600) From: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" Reply-To: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" Subject: Re: Printing and Windows To: Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: On Mon, 22 Feb 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote: > > One of my users is having problems printing Pine stuff via ProComm Plus > for Windows. > > For example, say he wants to print one of the help screens... he gets the > screen up on his display and presses L. The Windows Print Manager is > started but nothing is printed. > > Ok, so he tries to use the "Capture" facility to log the session. Only > the first screen and the last screen appear in the log, even if all the > help pages displayed on his screen. > > Any ideas? > > BTW, we have had no problems using ProComm or ProComm Plus in DOS. > > -- > .../Paul Maclauchlan > Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 > paul@moore.com -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul > "For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64 > > Try the "Capture" facility in conjuction with the "attached-to-ansi" Pine print option. I use Zterm to connect a Mac to a NeXT. The "attached-to-ansi" and "Capture text..." writes the message to a file which I print later. -- kc P.S. Forwarding and Replying still randomly result in a Segmentation fault. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Feb 22 14:30:44 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA14870; Mon, 22 Feb 93 14:30:44 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28822; Mon, 22 Feb 93 14:20:30 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from nysernet.org by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28814; Mon, 22 Feb 93 14:20:25 -0800 Received: by nysernet.ORG (5.65/3.1.090690-NYSERnet Inc.) id AA14084; Mon, 22 Feb 93 16:25:45 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Feb 1993 16:23:58 -0500 (EST) From: Alan Rowoth Subject: Re: Printing and Windows To: Paul Maclauchlan Cc: Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Many terminal programs have to be told to capture upon receipt of the screen "clear" character instead of as the material scrolls off the screen. That solved the problem for me on a couple of different programs. There are a zillion options to pcplus, I don't know where they hide that one, but I am certain they would support it. good luck, Alan -- ========================================================================= Alan Rowoth |"I know what she's thinking, know what she'd say Liverpool Public Library| That my life and hers are like night and day 310 Tulip Street | And her love is the love that will save him Liverpool, NY 13088-4997| Brave words, but I don't believe them. 315.457-0310 ext. 251 | I'd be stronger, wouldn't stay 1 minute longer 315.453.7867 fax | ...I would be stronger than that." alanr@nysernet.org |-Maura O'Connell "I Would Be Stronger Than That" On Mon, 22 Feb 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote: > > One of my users is having problems printing Pine stuff via ProComm Plus > for Windows. > > For example, say he wants to print one of the help screens... he gets the > screen up on his display and presses L. The Windows Print Manager is > started but nothing is printed. > > Ok, so he tries to use the "Capture" facility to log the session. Only > the first screen and the last screen appear in the log, even if all the > help pages displayed on his screen. > > Any ideas? > > BTW, we have had no problems using ProComm or ProComm Plus in DOS. > > -- > .../Paul Maclauchlan > Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 > paul@moore.com -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul > "For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64 > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 24 01:11:49 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26857; Wed, 24 Feb 93 01:11:49 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09115; Wed, 24 Feb 93 01:02:20 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09109; Wed, 24 Feb 93 01:02:18 -0800 Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <25424-0@susssys1.reading.ac.uk>; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 09:00:31 +0000 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 09:01:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Mike Roch Reply-To: Mike Roch Subject: Local help file (/usr/local/lib/pine.info) To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293" Status: O X-Status: --587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII We've just put up a local help file and find that most of the standard help has disappeared! We get the main heading and contents list, then the local page, then help on folders. That's it. What's happened? Mike =================================================================== Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, D.M.Roch@Reading.ac.uk University of Reading, Tel: 0734 318430 Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX. Fax: 0734 753094 --587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293 Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name="pine.info" Content-ID: Content-Description: Our local help file University of Reading Computer Services Centre This is Pine, a public-domain (i.e. freely available) mail program that originated in the University of Washington. Pine was designed for novice computer users; for this reason it offers fewer facilities than some other electronic mail tools. If you have problems using Pine at Reading, telephone the CSC Advisory helpline on Reading 317145 between 9:30-12.00 or 2.30-5.00 on weekdays, or (if possible) mail a message to Advisory@Reading.ac.uk. Typing man pine at the Unix prompt will produce a manual entry for Pine, listing its command line options and other parameters that you can set for yourself. A background document, "pine-tech-notes" in several formats can be found in /usr/local/lib. Mike Roch 14/09/92 --587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293-- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 24 05:04:12 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00349; Wed, 24 Feb 93 05:04:12 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12213; Wed, 24 Feb 93 04:51:23 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA12207; Wed, 24 Feb 93 04:51:21 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA01551; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 07:50:51 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 07:49:28 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Local help file (/usr/local/lib/pine.info) To: Mike Roch Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293" Status: O X-Status: --587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII There's a bug in Pine 3.05 that will cause weird things to happen if the custom help text is longer than the place holder text that's there now. That's about 19 lines. I think you're just over that. Let us know if this solves the problem or not. LL On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Mike Roch wrote: > We've just put up a local help file and find that most of the standard > help has disappeared! We get the main heading and contents list, then > the local page, then help on folders. That's it. > > What's happened? > > Mike > > =================================================================== > Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, D.M.Roch@Reading.ac.uk > University of Reading, Tel: 0734 318430 > Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX. Fax: 0734 753094 > > > > > > --587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293 Content-Type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM; NAME="pine.info" Content-ID: Content-Description: Our local help file University of Reading Computer Services Centre This is Pine, a public-domain (i.e. freely available) mail program that originated in the University of Washington. Pine was designed for novice computer users; for this reason it offers fewer facilities than some other electronic mail tools. If you have problems using Pine at Reading, telephone the CSC Advisory helpline on Reading 317145 between 9:30-12.00 or 2.30-5.00 on weekdays, or (if possible) mail a message to Advisory@Reading.ac.uk. Typing man pine at the Unix prompt will produce a manual entry for Pine, listing its command line options and other parameters that you can set for yourself. A background document, "pine-tech-notes" in several formats can be found in /usr/local/lib. Mike Roch 14/09/92 --587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293-- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 24 06:52:55 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01673; Wed, 24 Feb 93 06:52:55 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10679; Wed, 24 Feb 93 06:40:23 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10673; Wed, 24 Feb 93 06:40:20 -0800 Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <02030-0@susssys1.reading.ac.uk>; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 14:38:32 +0000 Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 14:39:16 +0000 (GMT) From: Mike Roch Subject: Re: Local help file (/usr/local/lib/pine.info) Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293" Status: O X-Status: --587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote: > There's a bug in Pine 3.05 that will cause weird things to happen if the > custom help text is longer than the place holder text that's there now. > That's about 19 lines. I think you're just over that. Let us know if this > solves the problem or not. Yes, that fixed it. Thanks Mike --587204512-192296755-730544553:#23293-- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 24 17:52:48 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20258; Wed, 24 Feb 93 17:52:48 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16768; Wed, 24 Feb 93 17:43:38 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from RUTGERS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16762; Wed, 24 Feb 93 17:43:30 -0800 Received: from mimsy.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) with UUCP id AA29187; Wed, 24 Feb 93 18:56:18 EST Received: by mimsy.UMD.EDU (smail2.5) id AA29936; 24 Feb 93 18:56:09 EST (Wed) Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (via uunet.ca) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA18670; Wed, 24 Feb 93 18:43:01 -0500 Received: from moore by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <9769(2)>; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 18:37:29 -0500 Received: by moore.moore.com (4.1/smail2.5/01-12-90) id AA21612; Wed, 24 Feb 93 18:36:14 EST Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 18:30:19 -0500 From: Paul Maclauchlan Subject: Re: Printing and Windows To: Laurence Lundblade Cc: Pine Info mailing list , Chris Box - CHO In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Here is the solution one of my users found (thanks for the hint): > From: chris@moore.moore.com (Chris Box) > To: ricardoc@moore.com > Cc: paul (Paul Maclauchlan) > Subject: Procomm: Capturing the PINE Help File > > Hi Ricardo! > > I've figured out ONE way of capturing the help file. > > In Procomm Plus for Windows, click on the Setup icon. Click on the > "Capture" button, and then click "Advanced". Under the advanced options, > there is a check box labelled "Write filtered text with no emulation > escapes". Click on that box. > > This will set up a capture file that you specify, capturing *only* the > text that appears on the screen. I found that it worked well. > > If you have any problems, drop me a line! > > Chris So, there is the answer! -- .../Paul Maclauchlan Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 paul@moore.com -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul "Or am I just the last surviving friend that you know?"/EJ&BT'73 On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Laurence Lundblade wrote: > Sounds like you need a Windows/Procomm expert more than a Pine expert. > Personally I'd like to hear the end of the story. I was getting close to > putting done my $100 for Procomm for Windows. Thanks for any more details > you have. > > LL > > > On Mon, 22 Feb 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote: > > > > > One of my users is having problems printing Pine stuff via ProComm Plus > > for Windows. > > > > For example, say he wants to print one of the help screens... he gets the > > screen up on his display and presses L. The Windows Print Manager is > > started but nothing is printed. > > > > Ok, so he tries to use the "Capture" facility to log the session. Only > > the first screen and the last screen appear in the log, even if all the > > help pages displayed on his screen. > > > > Any ideas? > > > > BTW, we have had no problems using ProComm or ProComm Plus in DOS. > > > > -- > > .../Paul Maclauchlan > > Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 > > paul@moore.com -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul > > "For tomorrow may rain so I'll follow the sun."/JL&PMcC'64 > > > > > > > .../Paul Maclauchlan Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 paul@moore.com -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul "Or am I just the last surviving friend that you know?"/EJ&BT'73 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Feb 24 21:01:53 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22627; Wed, 24 Feb 93 21:01:53 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17565; Wed, 24 Feb 93 20:52:35 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17559; Wed, 24 Feb 93 20:52:29 -0800 Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9221>; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 23:52:25 -0500 Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04617; Wed, 24 Feb 93 23:54:21 EST Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 23:51:44 -0500 From: Ian Lumb Subject: Re: PC mail software To: Jianxin Jiang Cc: PINE INFO In-Reply-To: <9302242022.AA28555@csbval.csb.yale.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Greetings Jianxin:- There's a pc version of pine that should be ready in a few months, I believe, that might serve your purposes. Ian. -- Ian Lumb Internet: Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Jianxin Jiang wrote: > Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 15:22:38 -0500 > From: Jianxin Jiang > To: sun-managers@eecs.nwu.edu > Subject: PC mail software > > > Hello, > > I have two PC's using Sun's PC-NFS. A Sun IPC runs pcnfsd. And I am looking > for mail software that supports SMTP, or anything better than the SEND/LISTENER > from PC-NFS. > > PC-NFS only enables PC's to run as NFS clients. Anybody has anything that > can also let the PC's be NFS servers for Unix and/or PC clients? Ideally, It > will be nice have something that does NOT conflict with PC-NFS. Thanks a lot > and I will summarize. > > Jiang From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 25 02:36:17 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27104; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:36:17 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20267; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:06:58 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20261; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:06:51 -0800 Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA01427; Thu, 25 Feb 93 00:28:26 -0800 Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391); id AA28036; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 09:28:22 +0100 Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391); id AA16028; Thu, 25 Feb 93 09:30:31 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 09:20:29 +0100 (French Winter) From: Francois Donze Reply-To: Francois Donze Subject: Accented chars To: Info Pine Cc: Francois Donze Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Status: O X-Status: I have little problems to create mails with accentuated chars and to=3D20 read mails with such chars. I tried many combinations in .pinerc and pine.conf but failed. It seems that I can't set ISO char in=20 my mails. for example, if I compose a message with an =E9 ( e with acute accent ),=20 and then I postpone it, when I get it back the letter is changed in =3DE29.=20 If I receive a mail with such an accent, I read i which is the 7-bit=20 corresponding char.=20 The above happens when I choose ISO-8859-1 and show-all-characters=3Dyes=20 My system is a DECstation 5000/240 running Ultrix 4.2A. Any idea? /francois From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 25 02:51:56 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27293; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:51:56 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20337; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:20:36 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20331; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:20:34 -0800 Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA08247; Thu, 25 Feb 93 02:20:14 -0800 Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391); id AA29311; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 11:19:54 +0100 Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391); id AA16109; Thu, 25 Feb 93 11:22:04 +0100 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 10:52:34 +0100 (French Winter) From: Francois Donze Subject: Re: PC mail software To: ian@vortex.yorku.ca Cc: Jianxin Jiang , PINE INFO In-Reply-To: (null) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: I am currently purchasing Chameleon from NetManage which seems to solve many problems; this soft is recommended by the BYTE magazine of Feb 93. It is a TCP/IP-NFS client AND server designed exclusively for MS-Windows. There is a Software development kit (add on) as well and RPC access. Here are some features: - 6 KB of base memory - Windows cut-and-paste, drag-and-drop, point-and-click - NDIS tcp/ip (thus, coexistence with Novell, DECnet....) - NFS file and Printer Sharing (server and client concurently) - snmp extensible agent - smtp, pop2 with address book - ftp, tftp - Telnet emulation (vt52, vt100, vt220, ANSI) - TN3270 (3278 mode 2) - Static routing over Ethernet, Token Ring, SLIP, FDDI - DNS client - Ping, Finger - ... Price: US$495 Contact: NetManage Inc., 20823 Stevens Creek Blvd. Suite 100, Cupertino, CA 95014 USA Tel: (408) 973-7171 Fax: (408) 257-6405 On Thu, 25 Feb 1993 ian@vortex.yorku.ca@nova15.vbo.dec.com wrote: > Greetings Jianxin:- > > There's a pc version of pine that should be ready in a few months, I > believe, that might serve your purposes. > > Ian. > > > > > -- > Ian Lumb Internet: > Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University > North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA > Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 > > > On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Jianxin Jiang wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 15:22:38 -0500 > > From: Jianxin Jiang > > To: sun-managers@eecs.nwu.edu > > Subject: PC mail software > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I have two PC's using Sun's PC-NFS. A Sun IPC runs pcnfsd. And I am looking > > for mail software that supports SMTP, or anything better than the SEND/LISTENER > > from PC-NFS. > > > > PC-NFS only enables PC's to run as NFS clients. Anybody has anything that > > can also let the PC's be NFS servers for Unix and/or PC clients? Ideally, It > > will be nice have something that does NOT conflict with PC-NFS. Thanks a lot > > and I will summarize. > > > > Jiang > > > > > % ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ====== > % Received: by vbormc.vbo.dec.com; id AA02007; Thu, 25 Feb 93 10:46:20 +0100 > % Received: by enet-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA21814; Wed, 24 Feb 93 21:14:19 -0800 > % Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17565; Wed, 24 Feb 93 20:52:35 -080 > % Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu > % Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu > % Received: from nexus.yorku.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17559; Wed, 24 Feb 93 20:52:29 -080 > % Received: from vortex.yorku.ca ([130.63.232.15]) by nexus.yorku.ca with SMTP id <9221>; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 23:52:25 -0500 > % Received: by vortex.yorku.ca (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04617; Wed, 24 Feb 93 23:54:21 ES > % Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 23:51:44 -0500 > % From: Ian Lumb > % Subject: Re: PC mail software > % To: Jianxin Jiang > % Cc: PINE INFO > % In-Reply-To: <9302242022.AA28555@csbval.csb.yale.edu> > % Message-Id: > % Mime-Version: 1.0 > % Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 25 05:51:12 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29520; Thu, 25 Feb 93 05:51:12 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19591; Thu, 25 Feb 93 05:19:03 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from danpost4.uni-c.dk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19585; Thu, 25 Feb 93 05:19:00 -0800 Message-Id: <9302251319.AA19585@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Received: from danpost4.uni-c.dk by danpost4.uni-c.dk id <16916-0@danpost4.uni-c.dk>; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 14:16:49 +0100 Subject: Re: Accented chars To: donze@vbo.dec.com Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 14:16:47 +0100 (MET) Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: from "Francois Donze" at Feb 25, 93 09:20:29 am Organisation: UNI-C, Danish Computer Centre for Research and Education X-Address: Building 305 DTH, DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark X-Phone: +45 45 93 83 55 X-Fax: +45 45 93 02 20 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 742 From: Erik Lawaetz Status: O X-Status: Francois Donze writes: > for example, if I compose a message with an =E9 ( e with acute accent ), > and then I postpone it, when I get it back the letter is changed > in =E29. This happens, as far as I understand PINE, because PINE immediately interprets your input and converts it to MIME's quoted-printable encoding before writing it to the mail file. The problem is, that it's not redisplayed the way you would expect when you resume editing a postponed mail, and consequently you suddenly see the quoted-printable stuff. > If I receive a mail with such an accent, I read i which is the 7-bit > corresponding char. This should be a terminal problem since it's a problem with bitstripping. You need stty -istrip, maybe more. --Erik From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 25 08:18:05 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01868; Thu, 25 Feb 93 08:18:05 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20290; Thu, 25 Feb 93 07:46:17 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from itep.itep.br by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20284; Thu, 25 Feb 93 07:46:10 -0800 Received: from di.ufpe.br (recife.di.ufpe.br) by itep.itep.br (PMDF #12039) id <01GV4YGMZZN40000VE@itep.itep.br>; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 11:38 -0300 Received: from moreno.di.ufpe.br by di.ufpe.br (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA01393; Thu, 25 Feb 93 11:35:25 EST Received: by moreno.di.ufpe.br (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02571; Thu, 25 Feb 93 11:35:25 EST Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 11:31:12 -0300 (EST) From: Alcino Dall Igna Junior Subject: Re: PC mail software In-Reply-To: To: PINE INFO Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: O X-Status: I'm using a PC connected via phone (bitcom/windows) to a vax/vms. Could the pc-pine be used with this software? (or maybe telix, or telemate) There are a beta version? Alcino Dall Igna Junior Universidade Federal de Alagoas alcino@ima.ufal.alan.br Universidade Federal de Pernambuco adij@di.ufpe.br On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Ian Lumb wrote: > Greetings Jianxin:- > > There's a pc version of pine that should be ready in a few months, I > believe, that might serve your purposes. > > Ian. > > -- > Ian Lumb Internet: > Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University > North York, Ontario M3J 1P3, CANADA > Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817 > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 25 08:56:38 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03141; Thu, 25 Feb 93 08:56:38 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20545; Thu, 25 Feb 93 08:20:10 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20538; Thu, 25 Feb 93 08:20:06 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA25812; Thu, 25 Feb 1993 11:19:57 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 11:18:24 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Accented chars To: Erik Lawaetz Cc: donze@vbo.dec.com, pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <9302251319.AA19585@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Status: O X-Status: Yes, I believe there's some definite bugs in Pine when postpoing messages with 8 bit characters in them. There's also a bug in Pine 3.05 for displaying 8 bit characters on some systems. I don't have the patched handy, but there are patched for it. LL On Thu, 25 Feb 1993, Erik Lawaetz wrote: > Francois Donze writes: > > > for example, if I compose a message with an =E9 ( e with acute accent ), > > and then I postpone it, when I get it back the letter is changed > > in =E29. > > This happens, as far as I understand PINE, because PINE immediately > interprets your input and converts it to MIME's quoted-printable > encoding before writing it to the mail file. The problem is, that it's > not redisplayed the way you would expect when you resume editing a > postponed mail, and consequently you suddenly see the quoted-printable > stuff. > > > If I receive a mail with such an accent, I read i which is the 7-bit > > corresponding char. > > This should be a terminal problem since it's a problem with > bitstripping. You need stty -istrip, maybe more. > > --Erik > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 25 15:25:49 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13277; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:25:49 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26320; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:11:41 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from bradley.bradley.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26314; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:11:38 -0800 Received: from cs1.bradley.edu by bradley.bradley.edu with SMTP id AA05859 (5.65b/IDA-1.4.3 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Thu, 25 Feb 93 17:11:30 -0600 Received: by cs1.bradley.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA09578; Thu, 25 Feb 93 17:11:29 CST Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 16:26:32 -0600 (CST) From: Matt Simmons Subject: Problem with pine? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1430303733-1179186136-730681811:#7487" Status: O X-Status: --1430303733-1179186136-730681811:#7487 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII When I view the attached file, and a line goes over 80 characters, and I hit space to show the next page, one of the lines near the one that ran over (I forget which one) does not get erased... Why? zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu __ /// Never hit a man with glasses -- /// Hit him with a baseball bat. __ /// \\\/// Anybody have the address for Earth Last? \XX/ Amiga --1430303733-1179186136-730681811:#7487 Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822 Content-ID: Content-Description: Forwarded message 'Disks 811-820 now available' Received: from relay2.UU.NET by cs1.bradley.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA19863; Wed, 24 Feb 93 04:21:33 CST Errors-To: errors@megalith.miami.fl.us Received: from uunet.uu.net (via LOCALHOST.UU.NET) by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA24577; Wed, 24 Feb 93 04:34:12 -0500 Received: from megalith.UUCP by uunet.uu.net with UUCP/RMAIL (queueing-rmail) id 043325.29755; Wed, 24 Feb 1993 04:33:25 EST Received: by megalith.miami.fl.us (V1.16/Amiga) id AA01caq; Tue, 23 Feb 93 17:39:27 EST Received: by megalith.miami.fl.us (V1.16/Amiga) id AA01cal; Tue, 23 Feb 93 17:39:22 EST Date: Tue, 23 Feb 93 17:39:22 EST Message-Id: <9302232239.AA01cak@megalith.miami.fl.us> Errors-To: errors@megalith.miami.fl.us Warnings-To: warnings@megalith.miami.fl.us Return-Path: errors@megalith.miami.fl.us Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.announce Article-I.D.: ucdavis.22910 Reply-To: fishpond!fnf@uunet.uu.net (Fred Fish) Message-Number: 352 From: fishpond!fnf@uunet.UU.NET (Fred Fish) (COMP.SYS.AMIGA.ANNOUNCE) To: announce-request@cs.ucdavis.edu Subject: Disks 811-820 now available Disks 811-820 are now available. Shipping to all those who have preordered disks should be complete by 18-Jan-93. Note that you can get a copy of the catalog (2 disks) of the complete library contents by sending $3 for disks, postage, and mailer to: Fred Fish Catalog Disk Requests 1835 East Belmont Drive Tempe, Arizona 85284 USA Thanks to all who submitted new and interesting material. If you submitted something in the past and it has not yet appeared in the library, please feel free to resubmit it, particularly if it was several months ago. I sometimes hesitate to include material submitted more than about six months ago because of some vague feeling that as soon as I include version 1.01 submitted many months ago, I'll see version 5.23 posted on usenet. For those wishing to submit material for possible inclusion in the library, here are a few simple guidelines that will make my job of organizing the material MUCH easier and GREATLY increase your chances of having the material accepted for inclusion: 1. Don't submit bootable disks or disks with any other sort of proprietary material included, since I then have to go examine each file to decide if it is distributable or not, and if not, what effect removing it might have. Unless the material is particularly interesting, I frequently just toss such disks into the recycling bin. 2. Organize the distribution in a manner similar to my disks. I.E, place all files related to a particular submission under a single directory on the disk. If there is more than one submission per disk, place each submission in its own directory. 3. Try to write a simple entry for my "Contents" listing that summarizes your submission. It should be about 3-10 lines, and include the current version number, the version and disk number of the most recent version (if any) that was last included in the library, whether or not source is included, and an "Author" list. 4. Ensure that your submission will run correctly from its sub- directory and if necessary, supply a script runnable from workbench (via :c/xicon or c:iconx) that makes all necessary assigns, copies fonts and libraries, etc. 5. Send your submission in a sturdy envelope with sufficient padding. Thanks!!! ====================================================================== CONTENTS OF DISK 811 -------------------- bsh A powerful advanced shell and interpretive programming language. Runs on AmigaDOS 1.2 - AmigaDOS 2.1. Major features include command history, command line editing, command substitution, redirection and piping, redirection of standard error file, concurrent piping for external commands, here documents, aliases, file name completion using wildcards ('*', '?'), pattern permutations, variables, array variables, local and environment variables, variable exporting, C-like expression evaluation, conditionals, looping, more than 50 builtin commands, more than 40 builtin functions, script programming, workbench startup via newbsh, directory aliases, shell window manipulation and command search by CLI path, by bsh path variable, command hashing and resident command loading. Version 0.98, shareware, binary only. Author: Gary Brant MagicNoises A MED module package including: Happy Hour, Magic Voices, Take it slow, Terminator II. Author: Lars Rv_iger WhiteLion A new Othello (Reversi) playing program. Strong and fast, it explains the rules and plays different strategies depending on the selected level. Supports interLaced resolutions. Version 1.2_FD, english and german executables. ShareWare, C sources and special version available when registering. Author: Martin Grote CONTENTS OF DISK 812 -------------------- PPMC The Powerpacker Mini Clone. This is powerpacker.library meeting gadtools.library: A small utility, useful for compres- sing any text or data file. This is version 1.2b, an update to version 1.1 on disk 751. Many new enhancements, including a complete Shell interface, hypertext documentation, a brand new look, localization, Danish, Dutch, and French catalogs, etc. Includes 68030 and 68040 versions, plus source for SAS C. Author: Reza Elghazi SCAN8800 A specialized database program to store frequencies and sta- tion names for shortwave transmitters. It can also control a receiver for scanning frequency ranges. Version 2.28, an update to version 2.27 on disk 803. Now works on NTSC Amigas. Binary only. Author: Rainer Redweik CONTENTS OF DISK 813 -------------------- AmigaBase A hierachical, programmable, in-core database that runs under OS 1.3 and OS 2.0. Has a full intuition interface. Features include two display methods, filter datasets, search datasets, print datasets, and much more. Nearly everything can be real- ized by programming AmigaBase. Datatypes can be Integer, Real, Boolean, String, Memo (Text), Date and Time. Number of data- sets is only limited by available memory. Also included in the package are some example projects. Version 1.21, an up- date to version 1.20 on disk 792. Shareware, binary only. Author: Steffen Gutmann GIFdatatype This program is a datatype that understands the GIF file for- mat. Once installed, it allows any datatype-aware programs (such as MultiView) to read GIF files as if they were IFF. You can also use them as screen backdrops. Datatypes only exist at WB3.0 and greater. Version 39.2, binary only. Author: Steve Goddard MinedOut A remake of the BASIC program of the same name for the Sin- clair Spektrum, by Ian Andrews. Mined Out is a strategy game, like Mine on disk 725 or AMines on disk 707. The object of the game is to find a way from the bottom of the minefield to the top, to escape a computer enemy. Version 1.0, share- ware, binary only. Author: Dieter Seidel CONTENTS OF DISK 814 -------------------- BootJob The BootBlock Utility. Includes functions to store, install, view, or execute any disk bootblock. Also self-made boot- blocks can be installed to disk. The most powerful function is to save any bootblock as an executable CLI-File. Now you can start every boot-util, viruschecker, game, or loader from the CLI. Also included is a drawer with 46 different boot- blocks. BootJob requires Amiga OS2.x. This is version 1.30, an update to version 1.00 on disk 760. Shareware, binary only. Author: Michael Bialas FIM The Fast-Intro-Maker. Use this little IntroMaker to create your own Intros in a few minutes. Includes functions to insert selfmade IFF-Pictures, Color-Screentexts, Music and more. Final created Intros will run on OS1.2/1.3/2.x (WB/Cli). F.I.M. requires Amiga OS2.x. This is version 2.2, an update to version 1.0 on disk 760. Shareware, binary only. Author: Michael Bialas MemBar A simple program to display the free memory using a window with bars for chip and fast memory. Version 1.0, public domain, includes source. Author: Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann Monopoly Demo version of a Monopoly game written in C. Version 1.0, shareware, binary only. Author: Ken Gilmer NoteEdit NoteEdit is a utility to write and save crypted notes. The ability of an automatic diary is included as well. Version 1.0, freeware, includes source. Author: Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann TreeGrow TreeGrow is a program which generates quasifractal trees or plants. The idea is taken from "Spectrum der Wissenschaft", the german release of "Scientific American". Version 1.0, freeware, includes source. Author: Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann CONTENTS OF DISK 815 -------------------- AntiCicloVir A link virus detector that detects 27 different such viruses. Checks your disk and memory for known link viruses, and can also detect known bootblock viruses in memory. Version 1.7, an update to version 1.6a on disk 767. Shareware, binary only. Author: Matthias Gutt InspireDemo Demo version of a new, easy to use, AmigaDOS 2.0 text editor. The demo is the same as the registered version, except that save and print are disabled in the demo. Inspire uses the new features of AmigaDOS 2.0 extensively, including using the ASL requester for font and file selection, and the gadtools library for standardized gadgets. The display database is used so you may open any type of screen that your computer is capable of. Features include an ARexx port, undo, find and replace, bookmarks, text centering, word wrap, case conversions, clipboard support, auto indenting, and more. Version 1.2, binary only. Author: Josh Van Abrahams ShuffleRun A game for two players. Try to collect more points than the other player. A level editor is implemented. 300 levels are included, 100 can be edited. Version 1.0, freeware, includes source. Author: Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann CONTENTS OF DISK 816 -------------------- Egypt A small game for one or two players. Find three chests of gold in a computer generated maze. Version 1.0, freeware, includes source. Author: Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann Look A powerful program for creating and showing disk magazines. Supports IFF pictures, IFF brushes, ANSI, fonts, PowerPacker, and many more features. Programmed in assembly language to be small and fast. German language only. Version 1.6, an update to version 1.5 on disk 808. Shareware, binary only. Author: Andri Voget. Revenge Revenge of the Blob, an animated interpretation using Bill Watterson's original cartoon strip character "Calvin". Tells the story of Calvin's encounter with his mother's food, and how the dreaded tapioca monster gets back at Calvin for turning his nose up at it. Version 1.0. Author: David Wiles CONTENTS OF DISK 817 -------------------- CTimer A pair of programs for use with Sys1.3 and Sys2. CTimer will measure the execution time of any section of code from a complete program down to a single line. Freeware, includes source. Author: Chas A. Wyndham EditKeys A keymap editor. Supports editing of string, dead and modi- fiable keys, as well as control of repeatable and capsable status of each key. Runs equally well under AmigaDOS 1.3 or 2.0. This is version 1.3, an update to version 1.2 on disk 642. Binary only. Author: David Kinder Hextract A complete header file reference. Definitions, structures, structure members and offsets, flag values, library contents, function definitions, registers, library offsets, prototypes, and pragmas. The data from a set of V2.x Amiga and Lattice header files is included and packed for immediate reference by Hextract. Version 1.3, an update to version 1.2 on disk 726. Freeware, includes partial source. Author: Chas A. Wyndham Install A replacement for the AmigaDOS Install command, with an Intuition front end. This is version 1.2, an update to version 1.1 on disk 643. Includes source in assembly. Author: David Kinder S-Text Turns texts into completely self-contained, self-displaying compressed files callable from Workbench or a CLI. S-Texts will save disk space and can be transferred from disk to disk without having to think about reader and decompression compati- bility. Version 1.2, an update to version 1.1 on disk 760. Freeware, binary only. Author: Chas A. Wyndham CONTENTS OF DISK 818 -------------------- LoadLibrary Another LoadLib program, but this version runs in it's own task, and uses the reqtools.library for multiselection and other user friendly file handling. All installed LoadLib libraries can also be removed from the system. Supports the locale.library and Amiga-Guide. Version 2.52 an update to version 2.52 on disk 743. Freeware, binary only. Author: Nils 'Jon' Gvrs TankHunter A simple action game for two players. Destroy the tank of your opponent. 50 levels are included. You can choose between sound effects or a background song. Version 1.0, freeware, includes source. Author: Benjamin (Pink) Stegemann UUCoderWindow An intuition user interface for the CLI commands UUEncodeX and UUDecodeX, written by Michel Bekke. Requires AmigaDOS 2.x. Version 1.0, freeware, binary only. Author: Nils 'Jon' Gvrs WatchStack A program that monitors the stack of any selected task or process 50 (PAL)/60 (NTSC) times per second and reports the allocated stack, maximum stack usage and current stack used. This program is a clone to StackWatch, disk 494, but improved a little bit. Requires AmigaOS 2.0. Version 2.02, binary only. Author: Brian Ipsen CONTENTS OF DISK 819 -------------------- JukeBox A program to play compact digitial audio discs by emulating a graphical user interface similar to common CD players. It provides a command line oriented, fully programmable ARexx user interface, as well. Version 1.2522, shareware, binary only. Author: Franz-Josef Reichert MemoMaster A program that warns you about events (like birthdays and anniversaries) as they approach. Version 2, includes source. Author: Jeff Flynn OctaMEDPlayer Standalone player program for playing songs made with OctaMED. Can load sng+samples-format and MMD0/MMD1-modules made with MED V2.10 or later, or any version of OctaMED. Can play stan- dard four channel Amiga songs, MIDI songs, 5 to 8 channel OctaMED songs, and multi-modules. Has a nice 2.0 look and works fine under 2.0 as well as 1.3. Version 4.04, an update to version 3.00 on disk 688. Binary only. Author: Teijo Kinnunen and AMIGANUTS UNITED CONTENTS OF DISK 820 -------------------- Databench Databench is a new low-cost Database with some nice features like fast search, filter, password, import/export and more. Includes both English and German versions. Demo version only, binary only. Author: Eric Hambuch / APC&TCP Vertrieb QuickFile A flexible, fast and easy to use flat file database using ran- dom access with intelligent buffering to minimise disk access, multiple indexes for fast access to records, form and list style screens and reports, and fast sorting and searching. Files are quickly and easily defined, and fields can be added, changed, or deleted at any time. Version 1.2, shareware, binary only Author: Alan Wigginton SysInfo A program which reports interesting information about the configuration of your machine, including some speed compar- isons with other configurations, versions of the OS software, etc. Lots of new enhancements including information on devices, resources and ports, and graphical speed comparisons. This is version 3.11, an update to version 3.01 on disk 758. Binary only. Author: Nic Wilson VirusZ A virus detector that recognizes over 500 bootblocks (200 boot viruses) and over 95 file viruses. The filechecker can also decrunch files for testing. The memory checker removes all known viruses from memory without 'Guru Meditation' and checks memory for viruses regularly. VirusZ has easy to use intuitionized menus including keycuts for both beginners and experienced users. VirusZ performs a self-test on every startup to prevent link virus infection. Written entirely in assembly language and operates with Kickstart 1.2/1.3, OS 2.0 and OS 3.0. Version 3.00, an update to version 2.27 on disk 786. Shareware, binary only. Author: Georg Hvrmann ====================================================================== |\/ o\ Fred Fish, 1835 E. Belmont Drive, Tempe, AZ 85284, USA |/\__/ 1-602-491-0048 fnf@fishpond.cygnus.com ====================================================================== -Fred -- Read all administrative posts before putting your post up. Mailing list: announce-request@cs.ucdavis.edu. Comments to zerkle@cs.ucdavis.edu. MAIL ALL COMP.SYS.AMIGA.ANNOUNCE ANNOUNCEMENTS TO announce@cs.ucdavis.edu. ==================================================================== This is part of a mailing list gateway maintained by Carlos Amezaga. Bugs, Comments, Subscribes and UnSubcribes should be sent to announce-request@cs.ucdavis.edu. --1430303733-1179186136-730681811:#7487-- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 25 15:43:39 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13676; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:43:39 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24146; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:32:40 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from degsyd.syd.deg.CSIRO.AU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24140; Thu, 25 Feb 93 15:32:35 -0800 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 10:32:19 EST From: IP_BOSS@syd.deg.CSIRO.AU (Jack Churchill) Message-Id: <930226103219.2cc@syd.deg.CSIRO.AU> Subject: Re: PC mail software To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, jiang@csbval.csb.yale.edu X-Vmsmail-To: PINE-INFO >I am currently purchasing Chameleon from NetManage which seems to solve >many problems; this soft is recommended by the BYTE magazine of Feb 93. > >It is a TCP/IP-NFS client AND server designed exclusively for MS-Windows. >There is a Software development kit (add on) as well and RPC access. >Here are some features: > >- 6 KB of base memory >- Windows cut-and-paste, drag-and-drop, point-and-click >- NDIS tcp/ip (thus, coexistence with Novell, DECnet....) >- NFS file and Printer Sharing (server and client concurently) >- snmp extensible agent >- smtp, pop2 with address book >- ftp, tftp >- Telnet emulation (vt52, vt100, vt220, ANSI) >- TN3270 (3278 mode 2) >- Static routing over Ethernet, Token Ring, SLIP, FDDI >- DNS client >- Ping, Finger >- ... > >Price: US$495 > >Contact: >NetManage Inc., 20823 Stevens Creek Blvd. Suite 100, Cupertino, CA 95014 USA >Tel: (408) 973-7171 >Fax: (408) 257-6405 > > >> On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Jianxin Jiang wrote: >> >> > Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 15:22:38 -0500 >> > From: Jianxin Jiang >> > To: sun-managers@eecs.nwu.edu >> > Subject: PC mail software >> > >> > >> > Hello, >> > >> > I have two PC's using Sun's PC-NFS. A Sun IPC runs pcnfsd. And I am looking >> > for mail software that supports SMTP, or anything better than the SEND/LISTENER >> > from PC-NFS. >> > >> > PC-NFS only enables PC's to run as NFS clients. Anybody has anything that >> > can also let the PC's be NFS servers for Unix and/or PC clients? Ideally, It >> > will be nice have something that does NOT conflict with PC-NFS. Thanks a lot >> > and I will summarize. We also recomend you look at Chameleon. Also, look at Beame * Whiteside's product which is very similar to Chameleon plus it has the added advantage of running either in DOS or Windows or both at the same time. It also has whois, nntp, timed, telnetd (up e.g., to 20 people can remotely log onto your PC and run DOS applications). That last point may be useful for us to allow cc:mail people (if we decide to go that way - can't wait for DOS-pine) to access their e-mail remotely without carrying a laptop all the time. I'm not sure but I did hear from one person that Novell have/will buy out B&W. Novell's current Lanworks for DOS is also very similar but not as feature packed as B&W. One a very similar thread: could someone please help me decide between MS-Mail and cc:mail? I like and dislike both for various reasons but cc:mail to me appears a better solution for us due to the smtp gateway that runs on Suns. The catch is that the PC (and some MAC) uses use MS type applications like Word for Windows and Excel so MS-Mail mail be a better choice in the longer term. True? Jack N. Churchill | J.Churchill@syd.deg.csiro.au CSIRO Division of Exploration Geoscience | churchill@decus.com.au PO Box 136 North Ryde NSW 2113 | Phone: +61 2 887 8884 Australia | Fax: +61 2 887 8909 ** Unless otherwise specified, the opinions expressed here are my own. ** From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Feb 25 19:58:32 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20502; Thu, 25 Feb 93 19:58:32 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28460; Thu, 25 Feb 93 19:51:32 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from acad.csv.kutztown.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28454; Thu, 25 Feb 93 19:51:22 -0800 Received: by acad.csv.kutztown.edu (5.61/1.35) id AA01356; Thu, 25 Feb 93 22:48:43 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1993 22:47:13 -0500 (EST) From: "James D. Gillmore" Subject: request To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Pleas add my name to your mailer list. Thank you. __________________________________________________________________ Jim Gillmore E-mail gillmore@acad.csv.kutztown.edu Manager Network Services VOICE 215.683.4199 Kutztown University of PA FAX 215.683.4634 LMS Annex Room 105 HOME 717.865.5820 Holidays & Weekends 717.567.3931 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 26 09:21:47 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03314; Fri, 26 Feb 93 09:21:47 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29593; Fri, 26 Feb 93 09:06:23 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uwavm.u.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29585; Fri, 26 Feb 93 09:06:20 -0800 Received: from orca.fhcrc.org by UWAVM.U.WASHINGTON.EDU (IBM VM SMTP V2R1) with TCP; Fri, 26 Feb 93 09:05:39 PST Received: by orca.fhcrc.org (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA53353; Fri, 26 Feb 1993 09:05:02 -0800 Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 09:00:38 -800 (PST) From: Brent Blumenstein Subject: Re: PC mail software To: Jack Churchill Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, jiang@csbval.csb.yale.edu In-Reply-To: <930226103219.2cc@syd.deg.CSIRO.AU> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Fo OS/2 IBM's TCP/IP package is terrific. It even includes X emulation if you buy it. The combination (OS/2 and TCP/IP) is real smooth to install, operate, and maintain. In contrast, doing this kind of thing DOS or DOS with Windows is a hassle. True multitasking really does have benefits. -- Brent A. Blumenstein | tel.: 206 667 4623 Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center | fax: 206 667 4408 1124 Columbia Street MP-557 | e-mail: brentb@orca.fhcrc.org Seattle, WA 98104 USA | On Fri, 26 Feb 1993, Jack Churchill wrote: > >I am currently purchasing Chameleon from NetManage which seems to solve > >many problems; this soft is recommended by the BYTE magazine of Feb 93. > > > >It is a TCP/IP-NFS client AND server designed exclusively for MS-Windows. > >There is a Software development kit (add on) as well and RPC access. > >Here are some features: > > > >- 6 KB of base memory > >- Windows cut-and-paste, drag-and-drop, point-and-click > >- NDIS tcp/ip (thus, coexistence with Novell, DECnet....) > >- NFS file and Printer Sharing (server and client concurently) > >- snmp extensible agent > >- smtp, pop2 with address book > >- ftp, tftp > >- Telnet emulation (vt52, vt100, vt220, ANSI) > >- TN3270 (3278 mode 2) > >- Static routing over Ethernet, Token Ring, SLIP, FDDI > >- DNS client > >- Ping, Finger > >- ... > > > >Price: US$495 > > > >Contact: > >NetManage Inc., 20823 Stevens Creek Blvd. Suite 100, Cupertino, CA 95014 USA > >Tel: (408) 973-7171 > >Fax: (408) 257-6405 > > > > > >> On Wed, 24 Feb 1993, Jianxin Jiang wrote: > >> > >> > Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 15:22:38 -0500 > >> > From: Jianxin Jiang > >> > To: sun-managers@eecs.nwu.edu > >> > Subject: PC mail software > >> > > >> > > >> > Hello, > >> > > >> > I have two PC's using Sun's PC-NFS. A Sun IPC runs pcnfsd. And I am looking > >> > for mail software that supports SMTP, or anything better than the SEND/LISTENER > >> > from PC-NFS. > >> > > >> > PC-NFS only enables PC's to run as NFS clients. Anybody has anything that > >> > can also let the PC's be NFS servers for Unix and/or PC clients? Ideally, It > >> > will be nice have something that does NOT conflict with PC-NFS. Thanks a lot > >> > and I will summarize. > > We also recomend you look at Chameleon. Also, look at Beame * > Whiteside's product which is very similar to Chameleon plus it has the > added advantage of running either in DOS or Windows or both at the same > time. It also has whois, nntp, timed, telnetd (up e.g., to 20 people > can remotely log onto your PC and run DOS applications). That last > point may be useful for us to allow cc:mail people (if we decide to go > that way - can't wait for DOS-pine) to access their e-mail remotely > without carrying a laptop all the time. I'm not sure but I did hear > from one person that Novell have/will buy out B&W. Novell's current > Lanworks for DOS is also very similar but not as feature packed as B&W. > > One a very similar thread: could someone please help me decide between > MS-Mail and cc:mail? I like and dislike both for various reasons but > cc:mail to me appears a better solution for us due to the smtp gateway > that runs on Suns. The catch is that the PC (and some MAC) uses use MS > type applications like Word for Windows and Excel so MS-Mail mail be a > better choice in the longer term. True? > > Jack N. Churchill | J.Churchill@syd.deg.csiro.au > CSIRO Division of Exploration Geoscience | churchill@decus.com.au > PO Box 136 North Ryde NSW 2113 | Phone: +61 2 887 8884 > Australia | Fax: +61 2 887 8909 > ** Unless otherwise specified, the opinions expressed here are my own. ** From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 26 13:10:53 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08644; Fri, 26 Feb 93 13:10:53 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01627; Fri, 26 Feb 93 13:00:11 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from RUTGERS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01621; Fri, 26 Feb 93 13:00:08 -0800 Received: from mimsy.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) with UUCP id AA06782; Fri, 26 Feb 93 15:12:33 EST Received: by mimsy.UMD.EDU (smail2.5) id AA13150; 26 Feb 93 15:12:11 EST (Fri) Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (via uunet.ca) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA10201; Fri, 26 Feb 93 15:07:28 -0500 Received: from moore by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <10764(4)>; Fri, 26 Feb 1993 15:07:24 -0500 Received: by moore.moore.com (4.1/smail2.5/01-12-90) id AA20894; Fri, 26 Feb 93 14:32:54 EST Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 14:27:28 -0500 From: Paul Maclauchlan Subject: User documentation To: Pine Info mailing list Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I realize the help screens include just about everything users need to know, but that is mostly useful *after* they've begun using Pine. What do you do to introduce Pine to new email users at your site? Seminars and demos are effective for people at my office, but I have many more users that are remote. Any ideas for them? Ideally, I'd like to be able to provide my users with a short document describing the Pine basics and how they can learn more about the features available to them. If nobody has written one, I'll take a crack at it and share it with anyone that is interested. I look forward to hearing from you. -- .../Paul Maclauchlan Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 paul@moore.com -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul "Give me the beat, boys, and free my soul, I want to get lost in your rock-n-roll and drift away..." From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 26 18:51:58 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15112; Fri, 26 Feb 93 18:51:58 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06924; Fri, 26 Feb 93 18:33:47 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from emoryu1.cc.emory.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06920; Fri, 26 Feb 93 18:33:45 -0800 Received: by emoryu1.cc.emory.edu (5.65/Emory_cc.3.4.6) via MAILPROG id AA04947 ; Fri, 26 Feb 93 21:33:41 -0500 Return-Path: lawrld@unix.cc.emory.edu Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1993 21:32:30 -0500 (EST) From: "Richard L. Doernberg" Subject: To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII How do I join the pine-info mailing list? Thanks. Richard L. Doernberg Emory University School of Law Atlanta, Ga. 30322-2770 Phone: (404) 727 6836 Fax: (404) 727 6850 Email Address: lawrld@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Feb 26 22:43:23 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17371; Fri, 26 Feb 93 22:43:23 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA05039; Fri, 26 Feb 93 22:27:38 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from camelot.bradley.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA05033; Fri, 26 Feb 93 22:27:31 -0800 Received: by camelot.bradley.edu id AA23114 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for Pine Info mailing list ); Sat, 27 Feb 1993 00:26:55 -0600 Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1993 00:25:31 -0500 (CDT) From: Matt Simmons Subject: Re: User documentation To: Paul Maclauchlan Cc: Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 26 Feb 1993, Paul Maclauchlan wrote: > > I realize the help screens include just about everything users need to > know, but that is mostly useful *after* they've begun using Pine. What do > you do to introduce Pine to new email users at your site? > > Seminars and demos are effective for people at my office, but I have many > more users that are remote. Any ideas for them? > > Ideally, I'd like to be able to provide my users with a short document > describing the Pine basics and how they can learn more about the features > available to them. If nobody has written one, I'll take a crack at it and > share it with anyone that is interested. > > I look forward to hearing from you. > Well, I'm the sole supporter of it here, and what I've found to work is just telling the person how to start it up... They ask 'How do I ____' once or twice, but you tell them to just read the screen... They learn on their own that way and it seems to have worked very well here... From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 01:30:43 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16708; Mon, 1 Mar 93 01:30:43 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17664; Mon, 1 Mar 93 01:19:32 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17658; Mon, 1 Mar 93 01:19:29 -0800 Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA09167; Mon, 1 Mar 93 01:19:11 -0800 Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391); id AA08083; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 10:18:48 +0100 Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391); id AA18904; Mon, 1 Mar 93 10:20:58 +0100 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 10:13:56 +0100 (French Winter) From: Francois Donze Reply-To: Francois Donze Subject: Address resolution To: Info Pine Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I've seen many mails about address resolution and I hope the following has not been mentioned before. In the index screen, I can read the following From field: frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles However, if I decide to reply to that fellow, the To header field becomes: "frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles"@nova15.vbo.dec.com I can't use that address and I need to modify it by hand. However, my sendmail.cf knows how to handle DECnet addresses and the first address is fine because sendmail will modify it properly before sending. What I am looking for is a kind of switch for allowing or not address expansion. /francois Internet: donze@vbo.dec.com DECnet: ulysse::donze All in 1: francois donze @vbo Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 05:00:43 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19376; Mon, 1 Mar 93 05:00:43 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16992; Mon, 1 Mar 93 04:53:48 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16986; Mon, 1 Mar 93 04:53:46 -0800 Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA22939; Mon, 1 Mar 93 04:52:20 -0800 Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391); id AA05369; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:52:00 +0100 Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391); id AA00550; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:54:39 +0100 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:49:15 +0100 (French Winter) From: Francois Donze Subject: Include mail fonctionality To: Info Pine Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I did not find anything in the compose menu allowing including a specific mail in the body text. I could workaround by exporting and then read file which is fine but heavy. Of course, I am not speaking of forwarding but but including a mail. Did I miss this somewhere ?. /francois Internet: donze@vbo.dec.com DECnet: ulysse::donze All in 1: francois donze @vbo Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 06:10:07 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20371; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:10:07 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17226; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:03:29 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17220; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:03:20 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA22174; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:03:01 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:00:13 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Address resolution To: Francois Donze Cc: Info Pine In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII There really isn't any way to turn off address expansion in Pine. It's pretty deeply ingranined, but I believe the address that results from the expansion you give below should work fine. It's just adding the local host name on the end; your sendmail should be smart enough to know what to do with it if it can handle DECnet mail. We've pretty much intentionally made Pine follow RFC-822 closely because we believe that adhering to standards will increase interoperability and the quality of the product. LL On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Francois Donze wrote: > > I've seen many mails about address resolution and I hope the > following has not been mentioned before. > > In the index screen, I can read the following From field: > > frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles > > However, if I decide to reply to that fellow, the To header field > becomes: > > "frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles"@nova15.vbo.dec.com > > I can't use that address and I need to modify it by hand. However, my > sendmail.cf knows how to handle DECnet addresses and the first address is > fine because sendmail will modify it properly before sending. > > What I am looking for is a kind of switch for allowing or not address > expansion. > > /francois > Internet: donze@vbo.dec.com > DECnet: ulysse::donze > All in 1: francois donze @vbo > Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 > Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34 > > > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 06:13:20 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20413; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:13:20 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17236; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:04:45 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17230; Mon, 1 Mar 93 06:04:36 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA22186; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:04:23 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:03:10 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Include mail fonctionality To: Francois Donze Cc: Info Pine In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII The way to do this in Pine now is to use the export command to write the message to a file and then include the file with the ^R command in the composer. Would be nice if there was a better way... LL On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Francois Donze wrote: > > I did not find anything in the compose menu allowing including a > specific mail in the body text. I could workaround by exporting and > then read file which is fine but heavy. > > Of course, I am not speaking of forwarding but but including a > mail. Did I miss this somewhere ?. > > > > /francois > Internet: donze@vbo.dec.com > DECnet: ulysse::donze > All in 1: francois donze @vbo > Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 > Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34 > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 12:48:35 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00410; Mon, 1 Mar 93 12:48:35 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20609; Mon, 1 Mar 93 12:32:00 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from RUTGERS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20603; Mon, 1 Mar 93 12:31:56 -0800 Received: from mimsy.UUCP by rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.5/3.08) with UUCP id AA08026; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:15:03 EST Received: by mimsy.UMD.EDU (smail2.5) id AA26037; 1 Mar 93 14:01:30 EST (Mon) Received: from ghost.uunet.ca (via uunet.ca) by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP (5.61/UUNET-internet-primary) id AA20455; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:45:53 -0500 Received: from moore by mail.uunet.ca with UUCP id <9749(1)>; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:45:49 -0500 Received: by moore.moore.com (4.1/smail2.5/01-12-90) id AA05892; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:29:59 EST Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:26:41 -0500 From: Paul Maclauchlan Subject: Return Receipt et al To: Pine Info mailing list Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Is there a philosophical reason a "Return-Receipt-To:" header is not available with the Rich Header option? It would be useful. Even more useful would be a method for a sender to check the Status: line of a message sent to another user. I keep getting questions like "How do I know they read my message?" Any suggestions? -- .../Paul Maclauchlan Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600 paul@moore.com -or- {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul "You know you can't hold me forever, I didn't sign up with you."/EJ&BT'73 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 13:10:44 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01085; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:10:44 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22059; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:00:58 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22053; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:00:56 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA01354; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:00:41 -0800 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA01984; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:00:32 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 12:49:45 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: Return Receipt et al To: Paul Maclauchlan Cc: Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:26:41 -0500, Paul Maclauchlan wrote: > Is there a philosophical reason a "Return-Receipt-To:" header is not > available with the Rich Header option? It would be useful. The Return-Receipt-To header is extremely controversial. It is not part of any standards; rather, it is a local feature implemented inside the UNIX sendmail and not in other mailers. Thus, there is no guarantee that you will get a return receipt; the absence of a receipt does not mean that that the user did not get the message, just as the absence of a human-generated acknowledgement or reply does not. Some people, including me, are opposed to the functionality on privacy grounds. I patched out the return receipt functionality in sendmail on my workstations. If I do not acknowledge or reply to a message, I have a specific reason for not doing so; and do not want a program to override my wishes. There has been talk about a voluntary facility that would prompt the user agent to say, when the receipient reads the mail, ``the sender requested that this message be acknowledged. Shall I send an acknowledgement?'' The problem is, since it's a voluntary functionality, it would suffer all the problems of uncertainty that return receipts would. > Even more useful would be a method for a sender to check the Status: line > of a message sent to another user. I keep getting questions like "How do > I know they read my message?" Any suggestions? This is something that would be even more abhorrant, even to people who accept the return receipt functionality as attractive. It requires a program to dig into another user's private data. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 13:38:39 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01822; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:38:39 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22394; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:27:55 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from world.std.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22388; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:27:53 -0800 Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20689; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500 Message-Id: <199303012120.AA20689@world.std.com> To: Mark Crispin Cc: Paul Maclauchlan , Pine Info mailing list Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500 From: Joe Ilacqua Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not sure I see the philosophical problem. All it does is inform the sender that the various mail links are functioning. ->Spike From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 13:44:07 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01980; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:44:07 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21256; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:36:36 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from cantva.canterbury.ac.nz by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21250; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:36:30 -0800 Received: from cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz by csc.canterbury.ac.nz (PMDF #2553 ) id <01GVBVPZJJGGA4O4QW@csc.canterbury.ac.nz>; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:36:22 +1300 Received: by cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05824; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:36:18 NZD Received: from Messages.8.5.N.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz.sun4.41 via MS.5.6.cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz.sun4_41; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:36:18 +1300 (NZDT) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:36:18 +1300 (NZDT) From: Jason Haar Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al In-Reply-To: <199303012120.AA20689@world.std.com> To: Pine Info mailing list Reply-To: Jason Haar Message-Id: X-Envelope-To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/richtext; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Andrew-Message-Size: 483+0 X-Contact: phone: +64 3 364-2336, fax: +64 3 364-2332 Organisation: CSC, University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand. References: <199303012120.AA20689@world.std.com> Excerpts from Mailing-Lists.Info-Pine: 1-Mar-93 Re: Return Rece= ipt et al Joe Ilacqua@world.std.co (260) Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not sure I see the philosophical problem. All it does is inform the sender that the various mail links are functioning. You are confusing a delivery-receipt with a read-receipt (Delivery-Recei= pt-To: vs Read-Receipt-To: header) Cheers Jason Haar From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 14:05:50 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02606; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:05:50 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22621; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:54:22 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22615; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:54:18 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA01389; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:54:07 -0800 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA02121; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:53:57 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:31:19 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al To: Joe Ilacqua Cc: Paul Maclauchlan , Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: <199303012120.AA20689@world.std.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500, Joe Ilacqua wrote: > Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and > does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not > sure I see the philosophical problem. All it does is inform the > sender that the various mail links are functioning. I occasionally receive email that I want no acknowledgement of its delivery returned to the sender. That is, I expressly want to be able to deny having ever received the message if questioned. Sometimes, an ``e-mail black hole'' is the only way to get rid of certain individuals. If the sender really wants to check the mail links, the sender could send a round-trip message using something like the % hack. For example, I could send a message to mrc%panda.com@world.std.com to see if mail to/from world.std.com works from Panda. But, I claim that I have no right to know whether or not a message I sent makes it to spike@world.std.com's mailbox unless Joe Ilacqua decides to give me that information. If it's really important to me that I know if the message got there, I will say ``Please acknowledge this message immediately.'' If Joe wants to do that, he can do a reply with the single word ``ack'' as a message. If he doesn't, well, he doesn't. It's his choice. A programmed procedure eliminates that choice. Consider, too, the frightening possibility of lawsuits getting served via email in light of the well-known irresponsible ways that people sometimes use email. However, the bottom line is that there is at present *no* standard way of requesting return receipts, only various (different and non-interoperable) hacks in different mailers. If all your correspondents use sendmail on UNIX, and none of them are nasty sorts like me that deliberately patched the code out, then you could have a working receipt facility. That is not a realistic set of assumptions to make on the Internet. I don't see any particular reason why Pine shouldn't make it possible to send a Return-Receipt-To header. On the other hand, who can take responsibility for making sure it works? From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 14:10:10 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02740; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:10:10 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22667; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:39 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from world.std.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22661; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:37 -0800 Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26673; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 16:58:24 -0500 Message-Id: <199303012158.AA26673@world.std.com> To: Jason Haar Cc: Pine Info mailing list Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:58:23 -0500 From: Joe Ilacqua (Delivery-Receipt-To: vs Read-Receipt-To: header) I don't think I'm confused at all. We are talking about the "Return-Receipt-To:" header (see the Subject: and Mark's message) which I have never seen implemented to do anything other than delivery receipt. I've never seen a read receipt implementation, and I think that you couldn't do it without mailer cooperation. ->Spike From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 14:14:58 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02882; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:14:58 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22743; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:07:06 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22737; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:07:04 -0800 Received: by nfs-serv.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA16349; Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:22 -0800 From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes) Message-Id: <9303012158.AA16349@nfs-serv.netcom.com> Subject: re: Return Receipt et al To: MRC@Panda.COM (Mark Crispin) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:22 PST Cc: paul@moore.com, pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: ; from "Mark Crispin" at Mar 1, 93 12:49 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] 'Mark Crispin says:' > The Return-Receipt-To header is extremely controversial. It is not part of > any standards; rather, it is a local feature implemented inside the UNIX > sendmail and not in other mailers. > > Thus, there is no guarantee that you will get a return receipt; the absence of > a receipt does not mean that that the user did not get the message, just as > the absence of a human-generated acknowledgement or reply does not. > > Some people, including me, are opposed to the functionality on privacy > grounds. I patched out the return receipt functionality in sendmail on my > workstations. If I do not acknowledge or reply to a message, I have a > specific reason for not doing so; and do not want a program to override my > wishes. I thought that Return-Receipt-To simply acknowledges receipt of the mail by the host, *not* that the mail has necessarily been read by the receiver. Is that not correct? -- Thanks, Will Estes Internet: westes@netcom.com From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 14:31:22 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03165; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:31:22 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22848; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:21:33 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from world.std.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22842; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:21:31 -0800 Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29083; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 17:13:55 -0500 Message-Id: <199303012213.AA29083@world.std.com> To: Mark Crispin Cc: Pine Info mailing list Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1993 17:13:53 -0500 From: Joe Ilacqua message I sent makes it to spike@world.std.com's mailbox unless Joe Ilacqua via email in light of the well-known irresponsible ways that people a Return-Receipt-To header. On the other hand, who can take responsibility Spike From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 14:32:05 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03195; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:32:05 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22789; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:11:19 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22783; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:11:17 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA01416; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:11:05 -0800 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA02191; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:10:55 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 14:08:57 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: Return Receipt et al To: Will Estes Cc: paul@moore.com, pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <9303012158.AA16349@nfs-serv.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:22 PST, Will Estes wrote: > I thought that Return-Receipt-To simply acknowledges receipt of the > mail by the host, *not* that the mail has necessarily been read by > the receiver. Is that not correct? What difference does that make? Having my host say ``I got the message and deposited it in his mailbox'' still conveys more information than I may necessarily wish to convey. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 14:53:14 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA03678; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:53:14 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22998; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:42:47 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA22992; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:42:45 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA01451; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:42:38 -0800 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA02290; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:42:33 -0800 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 14:29:00 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al To: Joe Ilacqua Cc: Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: <199303012213.AA29083@world.std.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 01 Mar 1993 17:13:53 -0500, Joe Ilacqua wrote: > I disagree, I think I have ever right to know whether mail > mail was delivered or not. Whether my mail got to you or whizzed off > in to a black hole is very much my business. You may think it's your right, but if the recipient chooses to run a mailer that does not pay any attention to your request for a receipt then you have no way of forcing him to do so. So, the person who thinks it's his right not to give you that information is going to win out. So is the person who thinks it's his right not to bother implementing it. These acknowledgements are voluntary. There is no particular reason to believe that a request for a human-generated acknowledgement will work any worse than a request for a mailer-generated acknowledgement. Provably, there are cases where the latter will not work at all. > >via email in light of the well-known irresponsible ways that people > This is a real reach. On the contrary, I have heard rumors of exactly that possibility on a commercial e-mail system, and I've seen articles in the trade rags about electronic delivery of legal process. Anyway, I am not the person to convince about whether or not Pine should generate that header. I'm just speaking my mind as a user here. I think this discussion has been hashed out fully, so I'm not going to say any more. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 15:05:34 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA04032; Mon, 1 Mar 93 15:05:34 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23111; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:56:34 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from netcom.netcom.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23105; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:56:32 -0800 Received: by netcom.netcom.com (5.65/SMI-4.1/Netcom) id AA22972; Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:56:14 -0800 From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes) Message-Id: <9303012256.AA22972@netcom.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:56:13 PST In-Reply-To: ; from "Mark Crispin" at Mar 1, 93 1:31 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11] 'Mark Crispin says:' > > On Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500, Joe Ilacqua wrote: > > Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and > > does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not > > sure I see the philosophical problem. All it does is inform the > > sender that the various mail links are functioning. > > I occasionally receive email that I want no acknowledgement of its delivery > returned to the sender. That is, I expressly want to be able to deny having > ever received the message if questioned. Sometimes, an ``e-mail black hole'' > is the only way to get rid of certain individuals. I think this is an application issue, not a problem with Return-Receipt-To:. I think you are requesting a capability within sendmail to - on a case-by-case basis - refuse acknowledgement of receipt to particular individuals when the destination is you. But the vast majority of people who use this feature simply want to know that the mail arrived intact. I know I never use that header unless I'm dealing with someone on a mail system that loses mail, so having acknowledgement of receipt is quite important. > However, the bottom line is that there is at present *no* standard way of > requesting return receipts, only various (different and non-interoperable) > hacks in different mailers. If all your correspondents use sendmail on UNIX, > and none of them are nasty sorts like me that deliberately patched the code > out, then you could have a working receipt facility. That is not a realistic > set of assumptions to make on the Internet. But it's all we've got, and it sort of works in 80% of the cases. I can't understand something that is useful 80% of the time just because occasionally it is not. -- Thanks, Will Estes Internet: westes@netcom.com U.S. Computer Cupertino, CA 95014 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 17:39:15 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08168; Mon, 1 Mar 93 17:39:15 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24553; Mon, 1 Mar 93 17:30:15 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from EMPIRE.CCE.CORNELL.EDU by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24547; Mon, 1 Mar 93 17:30:13 -0800 Received: by cce.cornell.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #4) id m0nTLoN-0001NNC; Mon, 1 Mar 93 20:30 EST Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 20:24:24 -0500 (EST) From: Ron Pool Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al To: Joe Ilacqua Cc: Jason Haar , Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: <199303012158.AA26673@world.std.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Joe Ilacqua wrote: > receipt. I've never seen a read receipt implementation, and I think > that you couldn't do it without mailer cooperation. We actually had a read-receipt implementation -- it was in an _old_ local email system that I re-wrote (about 8 years ago) from scratch. The re-implemented system also included read-receipt. We've since switched to pine and have gladly dropped the read-receipt and delivery-receipt features. Please note that the biggest complaint about pine from our approx. 750 users has been that it doesn't have read-receipt in it like our old system. They've stopped clamoring about that now and seem to be quite please with pine, excepting those few users who like to open a log file on the PC when they first go into mail and close it when they leave, expecting to see a perfectly formatted stream of the text of all messages read. Most of these users are happy to put up with this in order to get the other features of pine like multiple enclosures (our old system had a single enclosure available -- a homegrown concept then). -- Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853 Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 19:10:19 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09611; Mon, 1 Mar 93 19:10:19 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23804; Mon, 1 Mar 93 19:00:50 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23798; Mon, 1 Mar 93 19:00:48 -0800 Received: from elvis.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa03620; 1 Mar 93 22:00 EST Received: by elvis.med.Virginia.EDU (5.65c/1.34) id AA16345; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 22:00:45 -0500 Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 21:10:26 +22306404 (EST) From: "Steven D. Majewski" Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al To: Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This subject has been debated in other forums, and I'm aware of Mark Crispin's feelings on the matter ( and agree with a lot of his privacy reservations ) BUT, it still stands that: - delivery-receipts AND read-receipts are something a lot of USERS want ( and sometimes NEED ) and when you tell them that read-receipts don't really do what they might think they do, they will tell you that what they want is for you to make them work better - not to get rid of them. ( And they will take whatever limited functionality they currently offer in the mean time. ) - Delivery-receipts AND read-receipts ARE implemented in several systems. ( usually non portable, non standard and proprietary ) - email thru multiple gateways is unreliable enough that even delivery receipts are useful. Sometimes 3 days for a bounce message is an unacceptable time to wait for a NACK. And out-of-band phone verification is also often out of the question. ( If we could get them on the phone then we wouldn't be using email in many cases. Researchers in the former Soviet Union, for example, usually tell us to use email because the phone system is so poor! ) And, I _might_ add (IMHO), that there are business and commercial uses that will require (read or delivery) receipts. But then many of those uses will also require sender verification, public-key-encryption and other security features, form-letter replies, in addition to a more reliable receipt capability. But since I've heard there may be enough potential problems just getting MIME and PEM to work together, ( and I expect that any internet standard approach to the above will end up using those two as building blocks ), I'll forgive you, Mark, if you don't want to waste YOUR time on it. :-) BUT: I managed to keep my damn mount shut the last 3 or 4 times this topic came up. I weakened this time because it's late AND I want to ask: Is there an architectural overview - an Email Reference Model - of how responsibilities should be partitioned between the user agent and the delivery agent ( and imap and other parts of the mail system ). My impression is that OSI terminology has sort of been bolted onto current practice, but that there is not really a very clear model. But I guess this is getting out of the pine-info mailing list realm. =============================================================================== Steven D. Majewski University of Virginia sdm7g@Virginia.EDU Box 449 Health Sciences Center Voice: (804)-982-0831 1300 Jefferson Park Avenue FAX: (804)-982-1616 Charlottesville, VA 22908 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Mon Mar 1 21:22:17 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11014; Mon, 1 Mar 93 21:22:17 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24395; Mon, 1 Mar 93 21:14:29 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24389; Mon, 1 Mar 93 21:14:26 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04765; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 00:14:22 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 00:04:38 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al To: "Steven D. Majewski" Cc: Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I think you've got a lot of good points in favor of r-r-r here. Certainly it's needed for EDI like applications in the future, though I think a lot of the need for verification now is because users are new and insecure about e-mail. I think the ironic thing about the current r-r-r: is that it's probability of working is about the same as the message going through so it doesn't get you very much. For example if you go through a a gateway to FidoNet or such where the messages is likely to get lost, the r-r-r is also likely to get lost because it's no longer SMTP and sendmail. I think the gating issue for Pine is clearly the lack of standards for this. The idea in Pine is to stick with standards to keep interoperability and quality as high as possible. There was a mailing list where some Internet standards folks were hashing some of this out, but I think the effort sort of petered out, mostly due to technical difficulties making it work across gateways. LL On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Steven D. Majewski wrote: > > This subject has been debated in other forums, and I'm aware of > Mark Crispin's feelings on the matter ( and agree with a lot of > his privacy reservations ) BUT, it still stands that: > > - delivery-receipts AND read-receipts are something a lot of USERS > want ( and sometimes NEED ) and when you tell them that read-receipts > don't really do what they might think they do, they will tell you that > what they want is for you to make them work better - not to get > rid of them. ( And they will take whatever limited functionality > they currently offer in the mean time. ) > > - Delivery-receipts AND read-receipts ARE implemented in several systems. > ( usually non portable, non standard and proprietary ) > > - email thru multiple gateways is unreliable enough that even delivery > receipts are useful. Sometimes 3 days for a bounce message is an > unacceptable time to wait for a NACK. And out-of-band phone verification > is also often out of the question. ( If we could get them on the phone > then we wouldn't be using email in many cases. Researchers in the former > Soviet Union, for example, usually tell us to use email because the phone > system is so poor! ) > > > And, I _might_ add (IMHO), that there are business and commercial uses that > will require (read or delivery) receipts. But then many of those uses will > also require sender verification, public-key-encryption and other security > features, form-letter replies, in addition to a more reliable receipt capability. > > But since I've heard there may be enough potential problems just getting MIME > and PEM to work together, ( and I expect that any internet standard approach > to the above will end up using those two as building blocks ), I'll forgive > you, Mark, if you don't want to waste YOUR time on it. :-) > > BUT: I managed to keep my damn mount shut the last 3 or 4 times this > topic came up. I weakened this time because it's late AND I want to > ask: Is there an architectural overview - an Email Reference Model - > of how responsibilities should be partitioned between the user agent > and the delivery agent ( and imap and other parts of the mail system ). > My impression is that OSI terminology has sort of been bolted onto > current practice, but that there is not really a very clear model. > > > But I guess this is getting out of the pine-info mailing list realm. > > > =============================================================================== > Steven D. Majewski University of Virginia > sdm7g@Virginia.EDU Box 449 Health Sciences Center > Voice: (804)-982-0831 1300 Jefferson Park Avenue > FAX: (804)-982-1616 Charlottesville, VA 22908 > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 03:04:52 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15665; Tue, 2 Mar 93 03:04:52 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25753; Tue, 2 Mar 93 02:57:56 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from hpd.lut.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25745; Tue, 2 Mar 93 02:57:49 -0800 Received: from suna.lut.ac.uk by hpd.lut.ac.uk; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:57:25 gmt Received: by suna.lut.ac.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA04161; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:49:23 GMT Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:37:16 +0000 (GMT) From: Michael Rowe Reply-To: Michael Rowe Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al To: Pine Info Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Why not use the following Generate-Delivery-Report: This can be used to request a delivery report when sending mail from Internet through an X400 gateway, and is mentioned in the latest RFC relating to Internet to X400 gateways/message transfer. Michael (M.D.Rowe1@lut.ac.uk) PS. I can't remember the RFC number I think it could be RFC 1123, I'm not sure. It only has a passing mention in an otherwise large document. It is also refered to in earlier RFC's on the subject. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 07:36:06 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19139; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:36:06 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27921; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:25:20 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from prime.ntb.ch by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27915; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:25:18 -0800 Message-Id: <9303021525.AA27915@mx2.cac.washington.edu> Received: (from user HEEB) by prime.ntb.ch; 02 Mar 93 16:24:55 UT Subject: PINE for WINDOWS To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu From: HEEB@prime.ntb.ch Date: 02 Mar 93 16:24:55 UT Is there a PINE Version for Windows3.1 available ? In which Directory can i find this Vers. ? Which Files must i copy to my PC? H.U.Heeb eMail heeb@ntb.ch From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 07:45:50 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19259; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:45:50 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27333; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:37:01 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27327; Tue, 2 Mar 93 07:37:00 -0800 Received: from elvis.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa26080; 2 Mar 93 10:36 EST Received: by elvis.med.Virginia.EDU (5.65c/1.34) id AA10096; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:36:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:36:56 -0500 From: "Steven D. Majewski" Message-Id: <199303021536.AA10096@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU> X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91) To: Laurence Lundblade , "Steven D. Majewski" Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al Cc: Pine Info mailing list On Mar 2, 0:04, Laurence Lundblade wrote: > ... I think a lot of the need for verification now is because > users are new and insecure about e-mail. I agree with that point. And another reason is the partial penetration of email in some organizations. Some people use it. Some don't. ( And a place like UVA gives everyone an email address whether they use it or not. ) Some people don't know how to use the mail software. ( And especially, don't know how to turn on notification if it hasn't been turned on by default for them. ) People don't understand why some messages bounce back right away, and others take several days to be returned. In this sort of environment every bit of feedback helps --- It's like when a program echo's back "Working..." or something to keep the impatient from hitting the interrupt. People like to get that "So far, so good" message! > I think the ironic thing about the current r-r-r: is that it's probability of > working is about the same as the message going through so it doesn't get > you very much... > I think the gating issue for Pine is clearly the lack of standards for > this. The idea in Pine is to stick with standards to keep interoperability > and quality as high as possible. I guess what I was trying to say before was: I agree, in their current form, receipts are any ungly kludge, and so I can understand if you don't want to waste your time on them, BUT we ARE going to need those sort of standards soon. > There was a mailing list where some > Internet standards folks were hashing some of this out, but I think the > effort sort of petered out, mostly due to technical difficulties making it > work across gateways. Which again, leads me back to the need for an "Email Architecture Reference Model". i.e. I don't see a proposal out there that tells the gateway and application people what exactly they are expected to support. ( unless maybe it is implicit in some future promise of X.400 interoperability. ) But anyway - since the question is no longer "Why doesn't PINE support r-r-r?", I'll be happy to move this discussion to another list if you have a suggestion of which is the appropriate one. =============================================================================== Steven D. Majewski University of Virginia sdm7g@Virginia.EDU Box 449 Health Sciences Center Voice: (804)-982-0831 1300 Jefferson Park Avenue FAX: (804)-982-1616 Charlottesville, VA 22908 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 09:15:19 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21471; Tue, 2 Mar 93 09:15:19 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28738; Tue, 2 Mar 93 09:06:59 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from wugate.wustl.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28732; Tue, 2 Mar 93 09:06:57 -0800 Received: by wugate.wustl.edu (5.65c+/WUSTL-0.3) with SMTP id AA01037; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 11:06:55 -0600 Received: by fcrc-next.ecs.wustl.edu (NX5.67c/NeXT-2.0) id AA04169; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:59:11 -0600 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:55:34 -0600 (CST) From: Timothy Bergeron Subject: Does pine run on VMS? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Pine was recently installed on the Unix machines in our College of Arts & Sciences and is about to be installed on the machines in our School of Engineering. Everyone that uses it really likes it. Now several departments/schools that run VMS are wondering if there is a version of pine that will run on their VMS systems. Has anyone tried this? Timothy Bergeron Manager, Consulting Services Washington University St. Louis, MO From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 10:25:44 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA23012; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:25:44 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29246; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:14:39 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from halcyon.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29240; Tue, 2 Mar 93 10:14:37 -0800 Received: by halcyon.com id AA08471 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:13:56 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:13:56 -0800 From: Ralph Sims Message-Id: <199303021813.AA08471@halcyon.com> To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Subject: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message Three things, please: 1. How do I disable pine/pico from giving shell escapes to users (as well as disabling ctrl-z). 2. How do I disable pine's ability to read news folders/spool? 3. How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)? Many thanks for your help. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 11:29:16 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25236; Tue, 2 Mar 93 11:29:16 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29733; Tue, 2 Mar 93 11:18:19 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from scapa.cs.ualberta.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29725; Tue, 2 Mar 93 11:18:05 -0800 Received: from isagate by scapa.cs.ualberta.ca with UUCP id <42130>; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 12:17:47 -0700 Received: by isagate.edm.isac.ca (/\==/\ Smail3.1.20.1 #20.1) id ; Tue, 2 Mar 93 12:06 MST Received: from isa486-1 by isasun-1.edm.isac.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.26.7 #1) id m0nTcNK-000cvAC; Tue, 2 Mar 93 12:11 MST Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 12:09:23 -0700 From: Steve Hole Subject: Re: PINE for WINDOWS To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/mixed; BOUNDARY=Part9303021223B --Part9303021223B Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 2 Mar 1993 09:24:55 -0700 HEEB@prime.ntb.ch wrote: > From:HEEB@prime.ntb.ch> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 09:24:55 -0700 > Subject: PINE for WINDOWS > To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu > > > Is there a PINE Version for Windows3.1 available ? > In which Directory can i find this Vers. ? > > Which Files must i copy to my PC? > There is a Windows MUA that is based (somewhat loosely now) on Pine. It is called ECSMail and I have included a short description of its features in this message. -- Steve Hole Director of Research and Communications ISA Corporation mail: steve@edm.isac.ca Suite 835, 10040 - 104 St. phone: (403) 420-8081 Edmonton, Alberta, Canada fax: (403) 420-8037 T5J 0Z2 --Part9303021223B Content-Type: TEXT/plain; name="ANNOUNCE.TXT" ISA has developed a new Mail User Agent (MUA) for processing electronic mail on networks. It is named "ECSMail". ECSMail can function as both a "remote" MUA and a "local" MUA. While functioning in remote mode, it will access a remote message store using standards based mail access protocols. In local mode, it will access a local message store using system dependent message store access routines. ECSMail is has been designed and implemented to be as independent as possible from operating system, display, and network protocols. We have achieved this by building driver libraries for the OS and displays, and using Mark Crispin's c-client drivers for message store access (both local and remote message stores). Using this strategy, we are planning to support the following operating systems, display, and mail protocol combinations: OS - Unix, DOS, OS/2 v2, MacOS, NT Displays - X11 (R4, R5, Openlook, Motif), MS Windows v3, Presentation Manager, Mac Finder MAP Protocols - IMAP2, P7, PP7 MTP Protocols - SMTP, P1 It is our full intention to make this run on as many platforms, with as many different mail application protocols as possible. With ECSMail we plan to provide many interesting features, such as: * Multi-part, multimedia mail messages: - supporting both MIME and X.400 message formats - files (e.g. binaries, images, text, voice, application) can be attached and sent along with the message. - the different parts of the messsage can be extracted and displayed (using the necessary application) to the user. * Multiple simultaneous folder access and management (drag and drop messages or blocks of messages between folders). * Hierarchical folder structures. * Virtual folders within folders. Messages can be grouped using any combination of message header criteria into a virtual folder. Messages in a virtual folder can be listed and manipulated as a single object. This supports threading of messages within folders. * Integration of multicast (mail) and broadcast (NEWS, BBS) message stores via into a single interface. NEWS groups appear as a list of folders and threading of broadcast messages will be supported. * Privancy Enhanced Mail (PEM). Support encryption of message parts, digital signatures, and digital timestamps. * Forms mail. Messages can be composed inside of a forms interface as a special message part. It will include form design and display tools. * Draft message support. Users will be able to create and store standard draft messages, and select draft messages from both public and private draft message stores. * Integration with "mail enabled applications". * Personal configuration files. * Asynchronous new mail notification. * Personal address book lookup and management. Addresses can be loaded manually, copied from incoming mail, or copied from an X.500 DUA (see next). * Integration with X.500 Directory Services. The user can query local and network-wide address information while composing messages. Addresses can be copied from the Directory User Agent to the user's local address book. This facility will be optionally available for those who have the X.500 Directory Service capability. What Is Available Now --------------------- A BETA demonstration version of the Microsoft Windows version of ECSMail is available via anonymous ftp from ftp.srv.ualberta.ca in the directory /pub/networking/win/mail/ecs.tar.Z This version of ECSMail only supports the TCP/IP based mail access and transport protocols (IMAP2, SMTP), and can deliver MIME format messages. It provides what we term "basic functionality" - it does the things that most mailers do. Features such as the virtual folders, and NEWS message sources have not been implemented at this time. We encourage you to get the software and try it out. This version of ecs is released for demonstration purposes only - IT IS NOT CURRENTLY IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN. As I have mentioned earlier, we are not currently charging for the product, and are in the process of evaluating different forms of funding for the software. There are some restrictions on what you can do with the software at this time. The mailer is designed to support several different TCP/IP stacks through the use of Windows DLLs. Currently we support the following TCP/IP stacks: * Beame and Whiteside - BWTCP 2.x * Sun Microsystems - PCNFS 4.x * DEC Pathworks v We are currently working on providing: * Microsoft WinSock DLL compliance * FTP Software - PCTCP 2.04 If you are interested in supporting another TCP/IP stack, then provide us with a copy of the stack and development kit - it must have a sockets API - and we'll try to provide a DLL interface for it. How will we fund ECSMail? ------------------------- There are two funding methods for ECSMail - maintenance contracts and development contracts. Maintenance contracts are signed with organizations that want support and software maintenance on the ECSMail software. This will include free software upgrades and immediate response to software problems. The cost of the maintenance is designed to be far less than purchase->upgrade cost of conventional shrinkwrapped software. The cost is based on the number of installations that are in place. The organization will never be charged more than an agreed upon maximum. As the number of installations increases, the per seat cost decreases such that maximum is never exceeded. An organization can install as many copies of ECSMail as they like. Development contracts are signed to produce new functionality in the ECSMail product. ISA has identified a number of potential functionality improvements that it would like to make to ECSMail. We also believe that clients will have a number of features that they would like to see added to the product. The cost of the contract is determined by the amount of work required to complete the development, and the number of organizations contributing to the development. The more organizations that contribute, the lower the cost. ISA publishes a detailed list of feature development projects that it plans to run in the ecs-info mailing list (see below). Mailing lists ------------- There is an ecs mailing list. To join the mailing list send a message to ecs-info-request@edm.isac.ca To submit messages to the mailing list, send mail to ecs-info@edm.isac.ca If there are problems with the list, then send mail to owner-ecs-info@edm.isac.ca --Part9303021223B-- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 13:35:49 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29804; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:35:49 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01299; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:23:34 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from research1.bryant.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01293; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:23:31 -0800 Received: by research1.bryant.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA16677; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 16:18:11 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 16:04:51 -0500 (EST) From: "Stephen L. Frazier" Subject: Dumps when reading certain message To: pine-info Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I have been consistently getting a core dump when attempting to message number 5 (depicted in the INDEX below). It occurs immediately after pressing the return key when that entry in the INDEX is highlighted. I can read messages before or after it without problem, however. (This has happened once before some time ago.) I can read the message by using the native unix mail program. We are using version 3.05 of PINE running under Ultrix. Any ideas? Thanks! Steve PINE 3.05 MAIL INDEX Folder:inbox Message 5 of 10 1 Feb 28 Casilli (542) List serves 2 Mar 1 Paul Maclauchlan (1,412) Re: User documentation 3 Mar 1 Casilli (553) list serves 4 Mar 2 Christopher MacLel (690) Re: SAS N 5 Mar 2 To: pine-info@cac. (8,660) Re: PINE for WINDOWS 6 Mar 2 Christopher MacLel (1,127) MicroFocus Cobol N 7 Mar 2 Howard Blakesley (1,428) Re: Archie???? N 8 Mar 2 Barbara Weitbrecht (1,646) Big sig sought N 9 Mar 2 Arnold V. Lesikar (1,338) Re: Archie???? 10 Mar 2 Allan E Johannesen (655) Re: Incorrect login message (fwd) From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 13:52:32 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00396; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:52:32 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01407; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:40:17 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from world.std.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01401; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:40:15 -0800 Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04691; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 16:32:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199303022132.AA04691@world.std.com> To: Mark Crispin Cc: Pine Info mailing list Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1993 16:32:39 -0500 From: Joe Ilacqua commercial e-mail system, and I've seen articles in the trade rags about Spike From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 13:54:07 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00430; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:54:07 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01415; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:40:33 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01409; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:40:31 -0800 Received: from localhost by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA03463; Tue, 2 Mar 93 13:40:23 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 13:38:53 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: Dumps when reading certain message To: "Stephen L. Frazier" Cc: pine-info In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Could you send me a copy of the message or mailbox in question? From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 15:03:26 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02603; Tue, 2 Mar 93 15:03:26 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01887; Tue, 2 Mar 93 14:53:19 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01881; Tue, 2 Mar 93 14:53:18 -0800 Received: from elvis.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa25792; 2 Mar 93 17:53 EST Received: by elvis.med.Virginia.EDU (5.65c/1.34) id AA13317; Tue, 2 Mar 1993 17:53:14 -0500 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 17:16:34 +22306404 (EST) From: "Steven D. Majewski" Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al To: Joe Ilacqua Cc: Mark Crispin , Pine Info mailing list In-Reply-To: <199303022132.AA04691@world.std.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092" ---2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Tue, 2 Mar 1993, Joe Ilacqua wrote: > > Back to the issue at hand. Many of my Pine users know what > "Return-Receipt-To:" does and would like not to have to switch to > another MUA when they want to use it. Therefor I would like to see > it, or user definable headers, in the next release of Pine. > I (personally) don't often use "Return-Receipt-To:", but two of the "missing" features that most often send ME to use another mailer are user-defined headers ( or being able to edit-headers ) and mush's 'pick' command. ( Except I would rather that 'pick' changed the view of the current folder - like sort, but it would temporarily drop messages. The mush action of outputing a msg-list wouldn't fit very well into the Pine User Interface. ) User-defined headers have been mentioned before as being difficult to parse and verify. And PINE wants to support the idea of making the mail-headers "fool-proof" (i.e. protected). How about adding a list of allowable additional headers and a minimal maybe a minimal grammar to specify that some headers contain addresses, and SHOULD be parsed, and others contain a vanilla string ( and should just be checked for non string chars. ) If the field definition said something like: Sender:
"default address" Return-Receipt-To:
X-Something Then Sender and R-R-To: are parsed/checked to ensure they are valid conforming fully qualified addresses ( and checked against the address book on the way. ) while X-Something is only checked that it doesn't have any funny embedded chars. ( BTW: My typical use for editing or extending headers is to modify the Sender:, From:, & Reply-To: fields when sending out something in my Bosses name. The secretaries here would have the same need, but they aren't as adept with the mail software to figure out how to do it, so it would be nice if there was a "form" capability to set up the proper RFC-822 recommended headers for this type of situation. Extract from the appropriate portion of RFC822 included for illustration. ) =============================================================================== Steven D. Majewski University of Virginia sdm7g@Virginia.EDU Box 449 Health Sciences Center Voice: (804)-982-0831 1300 Jefferson Park Avenue FAX: (804)-982-1616 Charlottesville, VA 22908 ---2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092 Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name=rfc Content-ID: Content-Description: Appendix from rfc822 on secretary send mail,etc. August 13, 1982 RFC #822 Standard for ARPA Internet Text Messages A.2. ORIGINATOR ITEMS A.2.1. Author-sent George Jones logs into his host as "Jones". He sends mail himself. From: Jones@Group.Org or From: George Jones A.2.2. Secretary-sent George Jones logs in as Jones on his host. His secre- tary, who logs in as Secy sends mail for him. Replies to the mail should go to George. From: George Jones Sender: Secy@Other-Group A.2.3. Secretary-sent, for user of shared directory George Jones' secretary sends mail for George. Replies should go to George. From: George Jones Sender: Secy@Other-Group Note that there need not be a space between "Jones" and the "<", but adding a space enhances readability (as is the case in other examples. A.2.4. Committee activity, with one author George is a member of a committee. He wishes to have any replies to his message go to all committee members. From: George Jones Sender: Jones@Host Reply-To: The Committee: Jones@Host.Net, Smith@Other.Org, Doe@Somewhere-Else; Note that if George had not included himself in the enumeration of The Committee, he would not have gotten an implicit reply; the presence of the "Reply-to" field SUPER- SEDES the sending of a reply to the person named in the "From" field. A.2.5. Secretary acting as full agent of author George Jones asks his secretary (Secy@Host) to send a message for him in his capacity as Group. He wants his secre- tary to handle all replies. From: George Jones Sender: Secy@Host Reply-To: Secy@Host A.2.6. Agent for user without online mailbox A friend of George's, Sarah, is visiting. George's secretary sends some mail to a friend of Sarah in computer- land. Replies should go to George, whose mailbox is Jones at Registry. From: Sarah Friendly Sender: Secy-Name Reply-To: Jones@Registry. A.2.7. Agent for member of a committee George's secretary sends out a message which was authored jointly by all the members of a committee. Note that the name of the committee cannot be specified, since names are not permitted in the From field. From: Jones@Host, Smith@Other-Host, Doe@Somewhere-Else Sender: Secy@SHost ---2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092-- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Tue Mar 2 15:01:33 1993 Received: by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02481; Tue, 2 Mar 93 15:01:33 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tsippi.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02475; Tue, 2 Mar 93 15:01:30 -0800 Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 15:00:13 -0800 (PST) From: Sheryl Erez Subject: re: Does pine run on VMS? To: Timothy Bergeron Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Nope. Pine doesn't run on VMS. Many have asked about it and a few have contemplated porting it, but nobody (that I know of) is doing a complete port. If you're interested in trying, we can provide full source code and try to help out as questions arise. Sheryl Erez erez@cac.washington.edu UW Network Information Center On Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:55:34 -0600 (CST), Timothy Bergeron wrote: > Subject: Does pine run on VMS? > To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu > > Pine was recently installed on the Unix machines in our College of Arts & > Sciences and is about to be installed on the machines in our School of > Engineering. Everyone that uses it really likes it. > > Now several departments/schools that run VMS are wondering if there is a > version of pine that will run on their VMS systems. Has anyone tried this? > > Timothy Bergeron > Manager, Consulting Services > Washington University > St. Louis, MO From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 04:43:56 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA17314; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:43:56 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06178; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:27:30 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06172; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:27:28 -0800 Received: by inet-gw-1.pa.dec.com; id AA17165; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:27:08 -0800 Received: by vbohub.vbo.dec.com (5.65/fma-100391); id AA08875; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 13:25:52 +0100 Received: by nova15.vbo.dec.com (5.57/fma-100391); id AA02727; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:28:31 +0100 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 12:55:23 +0100 (French Winter) From: Francois Donze Subject: Choosing a Printer To: Info Pine Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I am using two different printers according to the type of doc to print: desk printer for small doc Printer server for double side printing .... What is the easiest way to change from one printer to the other? Right now, I quit pine, edit .pinerc, modify the printer value and enter pine again and print. Is there an easier way? /francois ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Digital Equipment SARL | | 950 Route des Colles - BP 027 | Francois Donze | 06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS |--------------------------|francois donze@VBO FRANCE | | ULYSSE::DONZE Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 |E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com | DTN: 828-5481 Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34 | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 06:31:53 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA19722; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:31:53 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06795; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:20:07 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from halcyon.com by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06789; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:20:04 -0800 Received: by halcyon.com id AA15839 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Wed, 3 Mar 1993 06:19:25 -0800 From: Ralph Sims Message-Id: <199303031419.AA15839@halcyon.com> Subject: Re: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 06:19:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Laurence Lundblade" at Mar 3, 93 07:52:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL13] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 652 > > 1. How do I disable pine/pico from giving shell escapes to users (as > Didn't know there was a shell escape(?).. You can disable ^Z in both by > not giving the -z flag. That is the default is disabled. I thought there was the ability to grab a shell in pico. I briefly looked, but could not find it. > > 3. How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen > > when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)? > You can recompile with quotas turned off, but this sounds like a bug. > I believe there's a USE_QUOTAS define somewhere in the .h files that you > can remove. What system is this for? ULTRIX 4.1 on a MicroVAX. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 06:48:44 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20061; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:48:44 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06723; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:55:53 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA06717; Wed, 3 Mar 93 04:55:50 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA24521; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 07:55:41 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 07:52:54 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message To: Ralph Sims Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <199303021813.AA08471@halcyon.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hello Ralph, > 1. How do I disable pine/pico from giving shell escapes to users (as > well as disabling ctrl-z). Didn't know there was a shell escape(?).. You can disable ^Z in both by not giving the -z flag. That is the default is disabled. > > 2. How do I disable pine's ability to read news folders/spool? You've have to recompile, commenting out the mail_link(newsdriver); line in pine.c. (Not sure I got the exact line of the file, but it's close). > 3. How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen > when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)? You can recompile with quotas turned off, but this sounds like a bug. I believe there's a USE_QUOTAS define somewhere in the .h files that you can remove. What system is this for? LL From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 07:06:37 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA20440; Wed, 3 Mar 93 07:06:37 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07474; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:50:29 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from jester.usask.ca by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07468; Wed, 3 Mar 93 06:50:26 -0800 Received: by jester.usask.ca (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA24693; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 08:50:24 -0600 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 08:47:51 -0600 (CST) From: Earl Fogel Subject: Re: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: <199303031419.AA15839@halcyon.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 3 Mar 1993, Ralph Sims wrote: > > > 3. How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen > > > when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)? > > > You can recompile with quotas turned off, but this sounds like a bug. > > I believe there's a USE_QUOTAS define somewhere in the .h files that you > > can remove. What system is this for? > > ULTRIX 4.1 on a MicroVAX. We had a similar problem under Ultrix 4.2 on a DECstation. When Pine was recompiled *without* optimization, the problem disappeared. From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 07:57:29 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA21422; Wed, 3 Mar 93 07:57:29 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07748; Wed, 3 Mar 93 07:45:12 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from csgrad.cs.vt.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07742; Wed, 3 Mar 93 07:45:10 -0800 Received: by csgrad.cs.vt.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA26688; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 10:45:00 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 10:43:55 -0500 (EST) From: Laurence Lundblade Subject: Re: Choosing a Printer To: Francois Donze Cc: Info Pine In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On the Other menu off the main screen there's an item to set the printer. When you change it there it rewrites the .pinerc file. LL On Wed, 3 Mar 1993, Francois Donze wrote: > I am using two different printers according to the type of doc to print: > desk printer for small doc > Printer server for double side printing .... > > What is the easiest way to change from one printer to the other? > > Right now, I quit pine, edit .pinerc, modify the printer value and > enter pine again and print. Is there an easier way? > > /francois > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Digital Equipment SARL | | > 950 Route des Colles - BP 027 | Francois Donze | > 06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS |--------------------------|francois donze@VBO > FRANCE | | ULYSSE::DONZE > Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 |E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com | DTN: 828-5481 > Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34 | | > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 09:45:01 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA24833; Wed, 3 Mar 93 09:45:01 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08278; Wed, 3 Mar 93 09:33:18 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tardis.svsu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA08272; Wed, 3 Mar 93 09:33:16 -0800 Received: by tardis.svsu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA26199; Wed, 3 Mar 93 12:37:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 12:33:44 -0500 (EST) From: "John J. Guettler" Reply-To: "John J. Guettler" Subject: Locking Keyboard Problem To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I've just discovered that if I use the lock keyboard option, pine will not accept my correct password to unlock the keyboard, and I have to break my connection to force myself off the system. I'm also having a similar problem with the imapd in the pine distribution. It will not take a correct password, either. I've telnet-ed to the imap port and tried entering the command by hand, but it responds with bad username or password. My system is a DECstation 5000/25 running ULTRIX V4.2A. I'm also running at ENHANCED security level. Could this be causing the problem? John J. Guettler Saginaw Valley State University University Center, MI 48710 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 11:07:36 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA27838; Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:07:36 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09054; Wed, 3 Mar 93 10:56:22 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tomobiki-cho.cac.washington.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA09048; Wed, 3 Mar 93 10:56:21 -0800 Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU (NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA04927; Wed, 3 Mar 93 10:56:14 -0800 Received: from localhost by Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM (NX5.67c/UW-NDC/Panda Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA02470; Wed, 3 Mar 93 10:56:08 -0800 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 10:25:46 -0800 (PST) From: Mark Crispin Subject: re: Locking Keyboard Problem To: "John J. Guettler" Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 3 Mar 1993 12:33:44 -0500 (EST), John J. Guettler wrote: > I've just discovered that if I use the lock keyboard option, pine will not > accept my correct password to unlock the keyboard, and I have to break my > connection to force myself off the system. > > I'm also having a similar problem with the imapd in the pine distribution. > It will not take a correct password, either. I've telnet-ed to the imap > port and tried entering the command by hand, but it responds with bad > username or password. > > My system is a DECstation 5000/25 running ULTRIX V4.2A. I'm also running > at ENHANCED security level. Could this be causing the problem? That is almost certainly the problem. Depending upon how ``secure'' your system is, it may be impossible for an unprivileged task to verify a password. The most common situation is that of ``shadow password files''. This takes the password information out of the password file and puts it in another file that is supposed to have much stronger protection than the password file. There are about as many different incompatible implementations of shadow passwords as there are of UNIX. Worse, even in the same flavor of UNIX there are different implementations. Some implementations are almost invisible; you only need to relink Pine and imapd and everything will work. Others require code changes. And in some of these, you simply can not win unless you have root privileges. All this to get around having a system call to validate passwords the way other operating systems do... :-( The first thing to do in fixing the problem is to figure out what ENHANCED security really means. On ULTRIX 4.2A, try the following edits: 1) In c-client/makefile.ult, change the definition of LDFLAGS to be LDFLAGS = -lauth 2) In c-client/os_ult.h, add the line #include somewhere reasonable 3) In c-client/os_ult.c, in the routine server_login(), add the declaration struct authorization *au; and change the password test (the line after the comment ``validate password'') to be: if (!(au = getauthuid (pw->pw_uid)) || strcmp (au->a_password,crypt16 (pass,au->a_password))) return NIL; /* no shadow password or doesn't match */ Then rebuild. You should get a working imapd out of this. You may be able to do something similar in Pine, depending upon how shadow passwords are implemented -- as I said in some systems unprivileged processes are not permitted to validate passwords. imapd is alright since server_login() is only called when imapd is not logged in (and thus is running with ID 0, giving it root access). -- Mark -- From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 11:17:00 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28133; Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:17:00 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10077; Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:05:01 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA10071; Wed, 3 Mar 93 11:04:59 -0800 Received: from elvis.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa10678; 3 Mar 93 14:04 EST Received: by elvis.med.Virginia.EDU (5.65c/1.34) id AA11459; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 14:04:54 -0500 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 14:02:14 +22306404 (EST) From: "Steven D. Majewski" Subject: Re: Locking Keyboard Problem To: "John J. Guettler" Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 3 Mar 1993, John J. Guettler wrote: > I've just discovered that if I use the lock keyboard option, pine will not > accept my correct password to unlock the keyboard, and I have to break my > connection to force myself off the system. > > I'm also having a similar problem with the imapd in the pine distribution. > It will not take a correct password, either. I've telnet-ed to the imap > port and tried entering the command by hand, but it responds with bad > username or password. > > My system is a DECstation 5000/25 running ULTRIX V4.2A. I'm also running > at ENHANCED security level. Could this be causing the problem? > I've never seen those problems on either a Sun or an IBM-RS6000, so my guess is yes - ENHANCED security is causing the problem. But I have no idea what that option does and I don't have a DECstation to try to duplicate it. =============================================================================== Steven D. Majewski University of Virginia sdm7g@Virginia.EDU Box 449 Health Sciences Center Voice: (804)-982-0831 1300 Jefferson Park Avenue FAX: (804)-982-1616 Charlottesville, VA 22908 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 13:16:07 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01924; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:16:07 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11332; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:03:55 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from [192.68.161.2] by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11326; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:03:53 -0800 Received: from ALPHA.NOAAPMEL.GOV by ALPHA.NOAAPMEL.GOV (PMDF #12168) id <01GVDF3BUCWG934TF0@ALPHA.NOAAPMEL.GOV>; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 13:01 PDT Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 13:01 PDT From: Laura McCarty Subject: a VMS version of Pine To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: <01GVDF3BUCWG934TF0@ALPHA.NOAAPMEL.GOV> X-Vms-To: IN%"pine-info@cac.washington.edu" X-Vms-Cc: LMCCARTY Sheryl Erez at the UW Network Information Center has told us: >Nope. Pine doesn't run on VMS. Many have asked about it and a few >have cont From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Wed Mar 3 13:45:25 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02679; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:45:25 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11680; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:26:02 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from sussdirt.rdg.ac.uk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA11674; Wed, 3 Mar 93 13:26:00 -0800 Received: from reading.ac.uk by susssys1.reading.ac.uk with SMTP (PP) id <17531-0@susssys1.reading.ac.uk>; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 21:23:36 +0000 Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 21:23:17 +0000 (GMT) From: Mike Roch Subject: Emergency exit from Lockscreen To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII This certainly aborts Pine, but seems to freeze the session anyway. Could (should?) it log out too? Mike =================================================================== Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre, D.M.Roch@Reading.ac.uk University of Reading, Tel: 0734 318430 Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX. Fax: 0734 753094 From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Mar 4 00:27:13 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA16712; Thu, 4 Mar 93 00:27:13 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15958; Thu, 4 Mar 93 00:12:47 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from danpost4.uni-c.dk by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA15952; Thu, 4 Mar 93 00:12:45 -0800 Message-Id: <9303040812.AA15952@mx1.cac.washington.edu> Received: from danpost4.uni-c.dk by danpost4.uni-c.dk id <16447-0@danpost4.uni-c.dk>; Thu, 4 Mar 1993 09:11:51 +0100 Subject: Re: Locking Keyboard Problem To: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1993 09:11:49 +0100 (MET) Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: from "Steven D. Majewski" at Mar 3, 93 02:02:14 pm Organisation: UNI-C, Danish Computer Centre for Research and Education X-Address: Building 305 DTH, DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark X-Phone: +45 45 93 83 55 X-Fax: +45 45 93 02 20 X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 252 From: Erik Lawaetz > I've never seen those problems on either a Sun or an IBM-RS6000, so my > guess is yes - ENHANCED security is causing the problem. You'll experience the same problem with SunOS, but SUN's approach makes it a lot easier to patch than Ultrix. --Erik From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Mar 5 08:23:13 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28413; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:23:13 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29443; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:09:59 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from columbus.bwh.harvard.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29437; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:09:56 -0800 Received: by columbus.bwh.harvard.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08783; Fri, 5 Mar 93 11:11:04 EST Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 10:54:40 -0500 (EST) From: "Peter W. Karlson" Subject: Pico printing? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII I guess this question is for Mike Seibel, has anybody requested a print function in Pico or are there any plans for adding it? -pk From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Mar 5 08:42:33 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA28979; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:42:33 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25613; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:33:01 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from mhc.mtholyoke.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA25605; Fri, 5 Mar 93 08:32:59 -0800 Received: by mhc.mtholyoke.edu (5.57/Ultrix4.2a_921103.02) id AA02354; Fri, 5 Mar 93 11:32:58 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 11:31:02 -0500 (EST) From: KaReN Reply-To: KaReN Subject: Is there a Pine FAQ? To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII I ask because I think I'm about to ask a couple of FAQs!! 1. When will Pine's print command work over appletalk? (or does it already and I'm missing something) 2. Is there a way to delete a batch of messages, rather than one at a time? Thanks for any info! Karen ____ ____ ____ _____ _________ /___/ /___/| /___/ /___ /| /_______ /| * Karen M. Bourque | \/ | | | | | | | | | | * Senior Consultant | | | | |_| | | | ____|/ * User Services - CIS | /\/\ | | | __ | | | |_____ * Mount Holyoke College | | | | | | | | | | | |___/ | * South Hadley, MA 01075 | | | | | | | | | | | | | * kbourque@mhc.mtholyoke.edu |__| |__|/ |___| |___|/ |_______|/ * kbourque@mhc.bitnet From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Mar 5 09:17:47 1993 Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00224; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:17:47 -0800 Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26030; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:07:20 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from tardis.svsu.edu by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA26024; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:07:18 -0800 Received: by tardis.svsu.edu (5.57/Ultrix3.0-C) id AA13775; Fri, 5 Mar 93 12:11:45 -0500 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 12:01:40 -0500 (EST) From: "John J. Guettler" Subject: File movement control-key sequences To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Any talk of putting control-key sequences in Pico (and the Pine composer) that will take you to the top or bottom of the file, or, perhaps, to a specific line number? From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Fri Mar 5 09:18:04 1993 Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivafs.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00245; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:18:04 -0800 Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00240; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:07:52 -0800 Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Received: from shiva2.cac.washington.edu by mx1.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA00234; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:07:50 -0800 Received: by shiva2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA29284; Fri, 5 Mar 93 09:07:46 -0800 Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 09:00:08 -0800 (PST) From: Michael Seibel Subject: Re: Pico printing? To: "Peter W. Karlson" Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII It's been on the list for a while, but finding the time and command key to implement it is the problem! One option (if it's "attached-to-ansi" support you're looking for) might be the short ansiprt.c utility included in the contrib source. It won't solve the printing from within pico problem, but could be used to support local printing similar to pine but from the system command prompt. Hope this helps! Michael Seibel Networks and Distributed Computing mikes@cac.washington.edu University of Washington, Seattle (206) 543 - 0359 On Fri, 5 Mar 1993, Peter W. Karlson wrote: > I guess this question is for Mike Seibel, has anybody requested a print > function in Pico or are there any plans for adding it? > > -pk > >