From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Wed, 1 Sep 93 23:13:13 EDT Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #82 Linux-Misc Digest #82, Volume #1 Wed, 1 Sep 93 23:13:13 EDT Contents: Re: coprocessor makes LOTS of difference (Alan Cox) Re: "spying" on devices - can it be done? (guest@hpacv.com) Re: Linux and Corporate America (Dan Newcombe) Re: What, if anything, should be statically linked (Ian McCloghrie) Re: SLS update: 99p12 and lib 4.4.2 (John E. Stump) Re: Linux and Corporate America (Jim McCoy) Re: What, if anything, should be statically linked (Kevin Brown) Re: HARDWARE QUESTION: Adaptec 2742 A supported? (David Sullivan) Re: netguide.. PostScript? (Olaf Kirch) Goodies Pack of Linux Doc's (David Lesher) Re: SLS 1.03 available on diskette (Daniel Quinlan) Speed testing different versions of POV (Andy "Traff" Trafford) Re: [ANNOUNCE] pwd for Linux (Peter Mutsaers) Re: Linux and Corporate America (Peter Mutsaers) Re: NT versus Linux (Peter Mutsaers) Re: X11R5 on Linux ? (Timothy E. Neto) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: iiitac@swan.pyr (Alan Cox) Subject: Re: coprocessor makes LOTS of difference Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 17:29:13 GMT >> Results: >> 386-40 with Cyrix: 9 hours 23 minutes >> 486-33 : 11 hourand 10 minutes >> >>The tests were executed on unloaded machines, using the same quality >>and size options for the rayracer. >> >...something is wrong here. Was the 486 an intel, or a Cyrix, or an AMD? >Was the 486 crippled with minimal memory? Or was the 486 suffering from >not having memory above 16M cached (if so equipped.)?? If the 486 was >a clone, did it also have a co-processor? I can believe this figure actually. I was very suprised how fast the Cyrix coprocessor was on sin/cos/tan operations. Some rough timings suggest that if you do vast amounts of these operations the Cyrix is indeed faster than the 486, but on the simpler operations it is nothing like as good. I guess somehow sin/cos/tan are popular on raytracers... Alan ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.unix.questions From: guest@hpacv.com Subject: Re: "spying" on devices - can it be done? Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 13:06:16 GMT In a letter you responded to: : >I would really like to be able to tie the inputs and outputs of ttyS1 and : >tty7 together, so I could watch what a user is doing, and perhaps take over : >the session if necessary. : > : >Is there are way to do this? : Use screen version 3.5.2 .. it has multiuser support. : Compiles under linux like a dream. you are right! I saw this on the net and got/compiled screen no prob. BUT it appears the docs are severely lacking. Could you give me an idea as to HOW to watch a port once screen is initiated? -I know I'm being a pain but this is very important to me. Thanx! postmaster@hpacv.com ------------------------------ From: dnewcomb@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Dan Newcombe) Subject: Re: Linux and Corporate America Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 17:38:55 GMT tzs@hardy.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes: > > (2) Attorney fees. If you register, when you sue and win the other side > has to pay your attorney fees. If you don't register, you have to pay > your own attorney fees. > You could always represent yourself. That'll save the attorney fees. -Dan ------------------------------ From: imcclogh@cs.ucsd.edu (Ian McCloghrie) Subject: Re: What, if anything, should be statically linked Date: 1 Sep 93 19:09:15 GMT gowen@apex.cs.tufts.edu (Gregory Owen) writes: >In the ongoing thread about staticly linked binaries, >niemidc@oasis.gtefsd.com (David C. Niemi) wrote: >> I am basing this primarily on what commands I HAD TO have when fixing >> badly crashed Suns that I did not have an alternate boot medium for >> (or did, but did not have shared libraries available). There was a fair amout of discussion on the FSSTND list about statically linked binaries. It makes sense to have two, ln, so you can fix the "whoops I broke the symlink" problem and sync, so if there's something worse wrong you can sync your disks before hitting the reset switch to reboot with a boot floppy. -- /~> Ian McCloghrie | Commandant of Secret Police - Cal Animage Beta. < < /~\ |~\ |~> | | <~ | email: ian@ucsd.edu Net/2, USL 0! \_> \_/ |_/ |~\ |__| _> | Card Carrying Member, UCSD Secret Islandia Club ------------------------------ From: jstump@austin.ibm.com (John E. Stump) Subject: Re: SLS update: 99p12 and lib 4.4.2 Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 19:42:24 GMT In article <1993Aug26.215156.3942@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca> jhenders@jonh.wimsey.bc.ca (John Henders) writes: >af8t@aixfile2.urz.uni-heidelberg.de (Markus Nullmeier) writes: > >>In article <25ginl$kug@usenet.INS.CWRU.Edu> Patrick J. Volkerding (bf703@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) writes: > >>> Nice how Peter can leech a living off free software and than >>> refuse to give any back. >>I don't think _any_ is correct. Some history files about Linux >>teach us about his contributions to the kernel, etc. > > I'd also be curious to see how many people would have tried to >install linux if there had been no SLS. Somehow, with a majority of >linux SLS installations being from downloaded free SLS packages, I'd >doubt Peter is planning to quit his day job any time soon. You would be surprised how well we all got along without SLS with the MCC releases. SLS is not rocket science, folks. john >John Henders GO/MU/E d* -p+ c+++ l++ t- m--- s/++ g+ w+++ -x+ -- ------------------------------ From: mccoy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Jim McCoy) Subject: Re: Linux and Corporate America Date: 1 Sep 1993 15:03:53 -0500 Reply-To: mccoy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu In article , dnewcomb@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Dan Newcombe) writes: > tzs@hardy.u.washington.edu (Tim Smith) writes: > > > > (2) Attorney fees. If you register, when you sue and win the other side > > has to pay your attorney fees. If you don't register, you have to pay > > your own attorney fees. > > > > You could always represent yourself. That'll save the attorney fees. It would also probably lose you your case. If someone tried to do this in a copyright or patent case I am sure that you would hear the squeals of glee from the opposing counsel half way around the world. Contrary to the glib "judgements" rendered on here by net.pseudo-lawyers, copyrights and patents, particularly relating to software, is not for the faint of heart or the untrained. You would, quite simply, lose your socks along with your program... jim -- Jim McCoy | UT Unix Sysadmin Tiger Team mccoy@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu | #include pgp key available via "finger -l", on pubkey servers, or upon request ------------------------------ From: kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com (Kevin Brown) Subject: Re: What, if anything, should be statically linked Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1993 18:21:46 GMT In article <260d6u$jl1@europa.eng.gtefsd.com> niemidc@oasis.gtefsd.com writes: >In article pgo@klaava.Helsinki.FI, wirzeniu@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Lars Wirzenius) writes: >>Just for fun, I compiled the fileutils package both with static and >>dynamic linking. The total disk usage of cp, dd, ln, ls, mkdir, mv, >>rm was 72 kB when linked dynamically, 558 kB when linked statically. >>I think the difference is large enough that many people do not with to >>have statically linked programs if they can avoid it. For >>installation floppies, there is not chance of being able to fit the >>statically linked copies in there. > >This is a sign that Linux is using a good libc. It is exactly why the >statically linked utilities should be limited to only those truly necessary. > >I believe a couple of things are already statically linked (e.g. ash). > >After some discussion with a couple of other people, "sync" emerged as the >single most important thing to statically link. I personally would like to >see "update", "mv", and "halt" as well, in that order. You can get by without >such luxuries as "ls" and "mkdir" pretty easily, while "ln" and "mount" might >be a bit more important. At a lower priority, there are also "tar" and "ftp" >to consider (handy when files are missing). Check out sash, by David Bell. It has: alias [name [command]] cd [dirname] -chgrp gid filename ... -chmod mode filename ... -chown uid filename ... -cmp filename1 filename2 -cp srcname ... destname -dd if=name of=name [bs=n] [count=n] [skip=n] [seek=n] -echo [args] ... -ed [filename] exec filename [args] exit -grep [-in] word filename ... help -kill [-sig] pid ... -ln [-s] srcname ... destname -ls [-lid] filename ... -mkdir dirname ... -mknod filename type major minor -more filename ... -mount [-t type] devname dirname -mv srcname ... destname -printenv [name] prompt string -pwd quit -rm filename ... -rmdir dirname ... setenv name value source filename -sync -tar [xtv]f devname filename ... -touch filename ... umask [mask] -umount filename unalias name built into it. It's 100k when statically linked and has the ability to run external binaries. It does filename expansion the way you'd expect. It doesn't have a scripting language, though. It's only useful for recovering from problems. >David C. Niemi: David.Niemi@oasis.gtegsc.com -- Kevin Brown kevin@frobozz.sccsi.com This is your .signature virus: < begin 644 .signature (9V]T8VAA(0K0z end > This is your .signature virus on drugs: <> Any questions? ------------------------------ From: davids@coop.com (David Sullivan) Subject: Re: HARDWARE QUESTION: Adaptec 2742 A supported? Date: Wed, 01 Sep 1993 19:05:37 GMT mauritz_c@spcuna.spc.edu (Chris Mauritz) writes: >Thomas Sandlass (sandlass@heino.ISD.Uni-Stuttgart.DE) wrote: >: Hi NetWorlders, >: Has anybody made working experience with the new Adaptec 2742 A >: EISA hostadapter? Is it supported by the Linux drivers for the 1742 A? >: Any pointers are greatly appreciated. >I don't know how well or even if it is supported, but according >to the most recent PC Week it is SLOWER than the Adaptec 1742 >(the controller it is replacing). I'd try to get a 1742 if I >were you since it is already supported by many operating systems >and it is one of the fastes EISA controllers around. Speaking from my recent experience with SCO UNIX, it is NOT compatible with the 174x drivers. Adaptec has released new drivers that are sitting on their BBS for SCO and Interactive UNIX. The 1.0 Release of the EZ-SCSI software for DOS (and their ASPIEDOS.SYS driver v1.1) does not recognize the 2740 either. One important thing to note about the article is that they reviewed the twin-channel 2742T, not the standard single-channel 2742. This may affect the performance of the unit. I'd also imagine that since the board is brand new, they (Adaptec) haven't had enough time to fine tune the drivers. They also tested it under Netware (yuk) instead of UNIX. My two cents on the 174xA controllers is that they stink. They are (according to an engineer I know) slightly outside of EISA timing specs, and if you try to run them on a system with tight bus timing (e.g. a DEC 433mp or any other Intel-based MP system), they lock the system up. They're really fast when they work, but that's if you can make 'em work. --- #include David Sullivan Project Manager Cooperative Computing, Inc. 512-328-2300 Hardware & Operating Systems email: davids@coop.com -- #include David Sullivan Project Manager Cooperative Computing, Inc. ------------------------------ From: okir@rbg.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Olaf Kirch) Subject: Re: netguide.. PostScript? Date: 2 Sep 1993 00:11:03 GMT Darcy Boese (dboese@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA) wrote: : Did something go a little wrong? The postscript version of the netguide only : came out to be about 4K... This was a mistake of mine. When uploading it I trusted my Makefile to produce the PS version ... :-) It should be corrected by now. Olaf ------------------------------ From: wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu (David Lesher) Subject: Goodies Pack of Linux Doc's Date: 1 Sep 1993 20:23:46 -0400 Reply-To: wb8foz@skybridge.scl.cwru.edu (David Lesher) I've taken on supplying a local DOS BBS with Linux files. I just sent them all 5+ hours of SLS. But as much, or more so that those of us with Real NetNews (tm) access, they would benefit from doc. By doc's,I mean anything in text that explains how to do something in Linux. Thus the FAQ's, the recent Matt Welsh book on installations, you name it... Help me choose what to send. The only proviso I think I should include is the data must be bootstrapable. If it is compressed with ZXCV!@#$, then I need the location of a DOS-based ZXCV decompression program. If the text is _not_ in straight ASCII, include the name of the needed DOS viewer/ formatter to read & print it. (No fair providing anything that needs compiling/hacking/etc before it will work -- the idea is to help these poor DOSvictims, not discourage them.) I'll summarize & post. -- A host is a host from coast to coast.....wb8foz@mthvax.cs.miami.edu & no one will talk to a host that's close............[301] 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 ------------------------------ From: quinlan@rose.cs.bucknell.edu (Daniel Quinlan) Subject: Re: SLS 1.03 available on diskette Date: 02 Sep 1993 00:27:41 GMT Reply-To: quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu In article <1993Sep1.125006.5518@ditdah.Morse.Net> mjohnsto@ditdah.Morse.Net (Michael R. Johnston) writes: > We offer Linux on either 5 1/4" or 3 1/2" diskette. Our prices are as > follows: > 5 1/4" Diskettes: $1.00/Each > 3 1/2" Diskettes: $1.25/Each What a rip-off. > These disks are unsupported by us, although support is available on the > Internet in the comp.os.linux Usenet hierarchy. Disks that are either > defective or damaged in transit will be replaced. This really makes me mad. Mad enough to botch my first reply and mail it to the guy who had gall enough to say this. The internet used to be free of commercialism like this, but I guess supporting your software (which isn't theirs anyway) is an idea that went out with MS Windows and MS-DOS. As, a general rule, although I respond to at least several c.o.l.help messages a day, I will not respond to any SLS bugs. People who buy releases like this ask dumb questions that can be answered by reading the FAQ. Although the vendor of the product claims I work for him, I do not. Dan -- [ Daniel Quinlan | Computer Science Engineer `95 ] [ quinlan@spectrum.cs.bucknell.edu | Bucknell University ] ------------------------------ From: traff@panix.com (Andy "Traff" Trafford) Crossposted-To: comp.graphics Subject: Speed testing different versions of POV Date: 1 Sep 1993 20:46:03 -0400 Background for Linux folks: There has been a lot of discussion in comp.graphics recently about 'Fastpov', which is a DOS version of POV compiled with the Watcom compiler. I decided to run off a few quick tests this morning to see how different versions of POV performed on my no-name 486/50 (8Mb ram). I used the standard POV benchmark test - ie rendering CHESS.POV to /dev/null with no antialiasing, no display, quality 9 etc etc etc. The results were as follows: POV version | Render time (320x200) | Chesstones (pixels/sec) ==================+=======================+========================= Standard DOS | 337 seconds | 189.91 | | Fast POV for DOS | 289 seconds | 221.45 | | POV for Linux | 281 seconds | 227.76 The Linux version of POV was compiled with standard cc - would gcc or any other compiler produce faster code? Of course, the tests above only compare raw speed - I haven't had time to render any complicated scenes to compare output quality. If anyone can suggest any scenes that might show up any differences then let me know - I'll throw the scenes at all three versions and post the results to alt.binaries.pictures.misc Traff ------------------------------ From: muts@compi.hobby.nl (Peter Mutsaers) Subject: Re: [ANNOUNCE] pwd for Linux Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 06:19:29 GMT >> On 27 Aug 1993 19:42:29 GMT, sn@plato.chemietechnik.uni-dortmund.de >> (sn) said: > What is wrong with the following /bin/pwd, which you see on several > Unices:? > ~> cat /bin/pwd > #!/bin/sh > pwd s> How about this one (for csh/tcsh users, put in your .tcshrc): s> alias pwd echo \$PWD An alias cannot truly replace pwd, since some shellscripts need pwd, or even contain '/bin/pwd'. -- _______________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers, Bunnik (Ut), the Netherlands. ------------------------------ From: muts@compi.hobby.nl (Peter Mutsaers) Subject: Re: Linux and Corporate America Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 06:21:41 GMT >> On Sun, 29 Aug 1993 14:45:35 +0000, alovell@kerberos.demon.co.uk >> (Anthony Lovell) said: AL> Peter Mutsaers (muts@compi.hobby.nl) wrote: AL> : The people from ESA were appalled by the quality of all this PD and AL> : GNU stuff; they had heard of it however, but had not used it before. AL> How could they be in a position to make judgements on the AL> quality of PD and GNU software if they had not used any of it I sad 'had heard ... had not used before', i.e. after I showed them ^^^^^^ they were in a position. Before they were pretty neutral. -- _______________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers, Bunnik (Ut), the Netherlands. ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy From: muts@compi.hobby.nl (Peter Mutsaers) Subject: Re: NT versus Linux Date: Tue, 31 Aug 1993 06:28:34 GMT >> On Mon, 30 Aug 1993 08:28:11 EDT, rich@mulvey.com (Rich Mulvey) >> said: > RM> That would be moral by your logic, right? > > Yes, but they go too far. In the end it will damage themselves, like > IBM was damaged too by the almost-monopoly they got in the 70s. First > they get big profits, but the losses will be even bigger. RM> If they damage themselves, that's *their* problem. New companies RM> will spring up to fill the void - just as it has always happened. And RM> *those* companies will probably be lean and mean at first, until *they* RM> kill themselves with bloat. That's the way that capitalism works. No, in the meantime a lot of damage will be done. It's not like in the 60s, when there were still hardly any alternatives. But now there are perfectly fine and well-designed operating systems with pretty wide acceptance. It is only because so many are uninformed and fall into the traps of Microsoft, not at all because of a fair comparison on technical grounds, that people might choose microsoft and such bring a lot of damage on themselves and the whole industry. > > Every company must fight its competitors, I agree; but they must also > learn self-control. If you kill everyone you get an unhealthy > situation, bad for everyone. RM> But you just said that they are going to kill themselves as well, so RM> what's the problem if they will eliminate themselves as players in the RM> game? Indeed. I hope for that. The sooner the better. That's my whole point. Of course they kill themselves only if people, as a result of their stupidness, refuse to be dictated by Microsoft, and make NT flop. RM> I have no sympathy for stupid/ignorant people. If they make decisions RM> about software and hardware without doing the proper research, they RM> deserve what they get. It is their responsibility. If a person is so But if the whole world will use NT and everyone want NT software, also for small scale techincal projects, that is also going to affect me. I'll be the victim of others stupidness or immorality. Therefore every well-thinking person should boycott Microsoft. This is very easy because alone for techincal reasons there is no reason at all to use a Microsoft 'operating system'. -- _______________________________________________________________ Peter Mutsaers, Bunnik (Ut), the Netherlands. ------------------------------ From: ten0772@halcyon.com (Timothy E. Neto) Subject: Re: X11R5 on Linux ? Date: 1 Sep 1993 19:52:26 -0700 dwex@mtgzfs3.att.com (David E. Wexelblat) writes: >In article bluejay@dcs.qmw.ac.uk (BUSARI) writes: >> Is it possible to install X11R5 on Linux ? I mean, instead of >> XFree86...I hear it's freely available --though it'd probably >> take up more disk space. >> But it'd be nice to have motif programs running on my PC. >> >> Since X11R5 is free (from what I here), then what's the point >> of having XFree86? What's the difference (pros/cons) ? XFree86 is X11R5. It is a pre-packaged version of X11 for the Intel based computers running a variant of UNIX. >This has GOT to be the funniest thing I've seen in a LONG time. Does >"bluejay" imply "bird brain"? No not the funniest, but surely high on an ingorance list. Def: ignorance == a lack of knowledge and experience. >Now, let's see - a little critical analysis. XFree86: X, Free, 86. Hmm. >One might suppose that this name implied that XFree86 was free software. Correct here. Yes, XFree86 may be obtained at (Ah Hmmm) no cost. >What's the point of XFree86? It runs on Linux (as well as a dozen other >OSs). X11R5 does not run on Linux. X11R5 does run under Linux. Question is, does the user wish to spend the time compiling it? And by compiling it, I also mean making any unique adjustments for video display system, network communcation protocols, and etc... Not an easy task. Also, does the user have the lavish amounts of time and disk space to do the installation / compilation. Many thanks and kudo's to the XFree86 development team. >How on earth could ANYONE reach either conclusion that you've reached >(that XFree86 costs money, or that X11R5 can be used on Linux)? Agreed... ??? >> >> bluejay@dcs.qmw.ac.uk >> >> >Sigh. >-- >David Wexelblat (908) 957-5871 Fax: (908) 957-5305 >AT&T Bell Laboratories, 200 Laurel Ave - 3F-428, Middletown, NJ 07748 >XFree86 requests should be addressed to >"Shining, flying, purple wolfhound, show me where you are." > Yes, "Yours Is No Disgrace" -- Indecision is the key | Timothy E. Neto 1 000 to flexibility. | Neat'o Gadget & Widget Works 1 0. .0 You can't E-Mail God. | Unix & X Applications Development 1 0 _ 0 Opinions are all mine. | Seattle, WA ten0772@halcyon.com 1 000 ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************