From: Digestifier To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Reply-To: Linux-Misc@senator-bedfellow.mit.edu Date: Mon, 30 Aug 93 17:13:20 EDT Subject: Linux-Misc Digest #73 Linux-Misc Digest #73, Volume #1 Mon, 30 Aug 93 17:13:20 EDT Contents: Re: Linux and Tcsh: Soooo Funny!! (A Joke) (burd@vax.sonoma.edu) Re: postscript (Michael Plate) Re: POVRAY executables at Sunsite (Zhuo Er Lin) Re: SLS considered harmful (wasRe: Bashing Peter MacDonald) (Andreas Klemm) How to start slip? (Tong Gao) Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux (Glenn Sills) Re: SLS considered harmful (wasRe: Bashing Peter MacDonald) (Darcy Boese) Re: BACKUP: tar or cpio? (Zhuo Er Lin) Re: Linux and Corporate America (Anthony Lovell) Setup Success Story (Stewart) Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux (Eyvind Bernhardsen) Re: Bashing Peter MacDonald (Andreas Klemm) Question about X drivers for Diamond (andrew brian gross) Re: Bashing Peter MacDonald (rodrigo vanegas) Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux (Pyeatt) Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux (Mark A. Davis) Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux (Jon Gefaell) Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux (Dan Newcombe) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux Subject: Re: Linux and Tcsh: Soooo Funny!! (A Joke) From: burd@vax.sonoma.edu Date: 30 Aug 93 11:54:38 -0800 In article <13038@obelix.icce.rug.nl>, karel@icce.rug.nl () writes: > Hi Linuxers: > > Just a semi-rancid joke to help you pass the day. You need the tcsh > to run this; it won't work for bash users. So, if you do use bash: > just startup a (temporary) tcsh and try it out. > > At the prompt, type: > %blow > The % is necessary. Then watch for the output.... > [Har har.. bangs his head against the wall whilst laughing madly.] he-he-he. I have a list of such jokes like this around here somewhere. If I find it I'll post them. Erik ------------------------------ From: plate@hrz.uni-kassel.de (Michael Plate) Subject: Re: postscript Date: 30 Aug 1993 15:19:37 GMT Ghostscript is a fully postscript-interpreter. It converts mostly any PS-file to the most important printers or file-formats. To test, start X and type gs /usr/local/lib/ghostscripts/examples/tiger.ps The only problem occurs, when using a non-standard font (I think). Michael Plate ------------------------------ From: umlin000@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Zhuo Er Lin) Subject: Re: POVRAY executables at Sunsite Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 19:51:48 GMT What is POVray ? -- ======================================================================== | Eric Lin Voice: (204) 783-2884 | | Computer Engineering FAX Modem: (204) 783-2884 | | University of Manitoba Internet: Umlin000@cc.Umanitoba.CA | ------------------------------ From: andreas@knobel.knirsch.de (Andreas Klemm) Subject: Re: SLS considered harmful (wasRe: Bashing Peter MacDonald) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 20:23:19 GMT jcg@world.std.com (James A Robinson) writes: >pmacdona@sanjuan (Peter MacDonald) writes: >>Putting a distribution together is not too tough. But keeping it up to >>date with all the interdependancies is harder. Compounding the problem >>is that I also seem to do a lot of kernel tinkering. I have long said >>that this is to big of a job for one person. There are some outstanding >>bugs or shortcomings with SLS. However, it is also true that many of >>the reports are not exactly straightforward. For example, someone >>posts that the way to make a swapfile is: >> dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/swap count=4096 bs=1k >>The subsequent damage is blamed on SLS having a soft link for /dev/swap. >>This was just a harmless oversight, until someone followed the above bad >>advice. And, just about all manor of user problems are blamed on SLS. >>Despite this, I daily get mail from people using SLS successfully. >True, people have got to realize that UNIX in general, Linux being no >exception, does what you tell it to. People *should* have LOOKED to see if >there was a /dev/swap around, even if people do not know what it does (I >certainly didn't), you would think they should either ask about it, or not >touch it (seeing as it was linked to /dev/hda1). I am using SLS from >tsx-11.mit.edu, and while I am not networking, I have found it to be much >sounder then anything I could have put together. If people don't want to I agree ... the installation of Linux is in general so simple.... Nobody should blame Peter for minor failures. I know other commercial installations with bigger problems ! I see another problem ... there are now so many FAQ's to read ... A newbie, who got only a copy of the Linux disks is overtaxed in getting and/or reading all !!!! There are only a few possibilities to avoid whining about the installations and so on: a) Learn a bit about Linux before installing b) Buy the Linux Installation Book and read it prior installing c) Make installation disks with a bit more help concerning creation of swap and filesystems .... "More help on the first steps" d) Create a weekly posting that contains the most important installation stuff. Not more than on 2 pages. This printout could be included on top of the install disk or could be printed out if you give your Linux floppies to a friend.... Too much infos aren't as good as to few..... -- /-\ Andreas Klemm +-----------------+ |@|########################################################-@ "pay for it !" | \-/ 41469 Neuss Germany phone +49/ 2137 12609 +-----------------+ ------------------------------ From: tgao@cad3.cs.uiuc.edu (Tong Gao) Subject: How to start slip? Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 20:18:11 GMT Sorry if this is a stupid question. But could someone point out to me how to start slip? I just installed the new version of SLS and assume that slip is built into the kernel. But I have no idea about how to start it. Moreover, I can not find any information about it at any place. Any help is appreciated. Tong tgao@cs.uiuc.edu ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy From: sills@mv.mv.com (Glenn Sills) Subject: Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 20:22:18 GMT In article <25tbo5INN2bn@flipper.pvv.unit.no>, Eyvind Bernhardsen wrote: >In article , tim@lorien.demon.co.uk (Tim Towers) writes: > >[...] > > > Nothing gets to be the number one application by accident - there has to be > > some reason. > >Okay, I'd like to know why Windows is currently the #1 most-used "OS" in the >world today. Irrational or illogical reasons are OK, be imaginitive. Extra >marks for the most amusing mis-spelling of Windows. Flame Protective Suit On..... Clearly, it is because all the other OS's suck as much or even more than Windows. -- Glenn Sills Internet : sills@mv.com Compuserve: 73417,2350 Telephone: 603-598-3192 ------------------------------ From: dboese@spartan.ac.BrockU.CA (Darcy Boese) Subject: Re: SLS considered harmful (wasRe: Bashing Peter MacDonald) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 20:52:05 GMT > b) Buy the Linux Installation Book and read it prior installing From where? ------------------------------ From: umlin000@ccu.umanitoba.ca (Zhuo Er Lin) Subject: Re: BACKUP: tar or cpio? Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 20:26:47 GMT >What if your a1 is full (mine is...) and your /etc/passwd gets a block larger? >This isn't a usable solution. cpio is reliable, doesn't need hacks, why >should I do all sorts of screwy things just so I can use tar??? Anyone has tried afio in tsx-11.mit.edu? It includes auto archive. (FYI, I didn't try it yet) -- ======================================================================== | Eric Lin Voice: (204) 783-2884 | | Computer Engineering FAX Modem: (204) 783-2884 | | University of Manitoba Internet: Umlin000@cc.Umanitoba.CA | ------------------------------ From: alovell@kerberos.demon.co.uk (Anthony Lovell) Subject: Re: Linux and Corporate America Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1993 14:45:35 +0000 Peter Mutsaers (muts@compi.hobby.nl) wrote: : The people from ESA were appalled by the quality of all this PD and : GNU stuff; they had heard of it however, but had not used it before. How could they be in a position to make judgements on the quality of PD and GNU software if they had not used any of it -- anthony ============================================================================== alovell@kerberos.demon.co.uk | If at first you don't succeed | alovell@cix.compulink.co.uk | Get a Bigger Hammer ============================================================================== ------------------------------ From: stewart@vitek.com (Stewart) Subject: Setup Success Story Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 16:09:59 GMT Last week I decided linux was something I wanted to become familiar with. I bought a PC a few months ago, and had never worked with DOS or Windows, but am a long time UNIX/C engineer. I am relatively disappointed with the capabilities of Windows, after programming with X + Motif, DECWindows and Openlook for years. Anyway, I downloaded the SLS version to 30 floppy disks on Saturday afternoon (I set up a script the night before to download the entire fileset from the net). This took a few hours. Then went home and repartitioned my hardidsk, with FIPS, making a 75 meg linux partition. I first used the MS-DOS 'defrag' utility to consolidate all my data to the front of the disk. Defragging and repartitioning took about 10 minutes. The FIPS documentation was precise, Mr. Schaefer has done a good job with that utility. I then took the Matt Welsh 'Linux Installation and Getting Started' documentation in hand and installed linux. After making the swap and primary filesets on the linux partition, it took about 35 minutes to install 'a', 'b', 'c', and 'x' from the SLS fileset. At the end of the installation, linux made a bootfloppy for me. I then booted linux, and there it was, a working UN*X system. I typed 'startx', and it did. It did need some tweeking of the pre and post syncs, which took another 40 minutes (with the help of the README.MODEGEN file by Mike Jagdis). Then I was off and running, playing with the GNU development tools, setting up user accounts, mail, playing with kermit, etc. From the time I started the installation process (after creating the floppies), an hour and a half later I was setting up a personal X environment. Amazing. The purpose of this posting is express my appreciation to those who have given their time and effort in providing this environment for anyone who wants it. Over the course of my career, I have installed many software packages, full OS's, upgrades, third party products, etc. I have never had a more trouble free installation. I am impressed. Stewart - stewart@vitek.com ------------------------------ From: eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy Subject: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux Date: 30 Aug 1993 17:00:53 GMT In article , tim@lorien.demon.co.uk (Tim Towers) writes: [...] > Nothing gets to be the number one application by accident - there has to be > some reason. Okay, I'd like to know why Windows is currently the #1 most-used "OS" in the world today. Irrational or illogical reasons are OK, be imaginitive. Extra marks for the most amusing mis-spelling of Windows. -- //| Eyvind Bernhardsen | eyvind@lise.unit.no // | | \\ //--| Finger me for my | Amigoid and Linux advocate. \X/ | public PGP key :) | Save the whalers! ------------------------------ From: andreas@knobel.knirsch.de (Andreas Klemm) Subject: Re: Bashing Peter MacDonald Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 17:30:06 GMT rv@cs.brown.edu (rodrigo vanegas) writes: >In article <1993Aug27.024517.19825@VFL.Paramax.COM>, eds@VFL.Paramax.COM (Ed Skladany) writes: >> Lighten up, grouches. If you're willing to devote the time to >> produce your own binary Linux distribution that's better than SLS, >> then you have a right to complain. Otherwise, just describe the >> problem objectively and keep the childish remarks to yourself. >Well, i don't have time myself. But there are other distributions out >there! Try the MCC distribution, for example, which i found to be >much simpler and far more reliable. It doesn't come with X you say? >Well it does come with instructions for getting X, so this is hardly a >drawback. >SLS bashing happens not because we don't appreciate Peter's job but >because we also appreciate the better job being done by the compilers >of other distributions. Don't take it personally... Hi Rodrigo ! About what problems are you speaking here ? Would be interested, what's really _wrong_ with SLS. Did I overlook something on my (from SLS 1.01 to SLS 1.03) upgraded system ???? Ok, groff was missing some things in 1.01. But ok, I've fixed it. I have the same feeling like Peter Mc Donald. It's really simpler to flame someone, than to cooperate. The same thing happended in the 386BSD group. One 386BSD distrib chases the other .... ============================================================= Why not making a TODO list for SLS 1.03 prior creating many other alpha, beta, .... releases, which will have their flaws in the beginning, too !!!!!!!!!!! ============================================================= -- /-\ Andreas Klemm +-----------------+ |@|########################################################-@ "pay for it !" | \-/ 41469 Neuss Germany phone +49/ 2137 12609 +-----------------+ ------------------------------ From: abg1@quads.uchicago.edu (andrew brian gross) Subject: Question about X drivers for Diamond Reply-To: abg1@midway.uchicago.edu Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 17:26:06 GMT A co-worker has finally convinced me to install Linux on my home box rather than buying UnixWare. However, I am told that X drivers for many Diamond products are not available, due to the folks at Diamond being assholes about releasing technical details about their products. I have a Diamond Speedstar 24x. Since this is an older card, I was hoping that an X windows driver might be available for it. If this is the case, could someone kindly e-mail me and let me know where to find it (my friend is giving me the SLS distribution disks; is it already there?)? If it's not available, then I suppose I'll end up buying UnixWare afterall :-( Thanks in advance, "The purpose of writing is to | Andrew B. Gross inflate weak ideas, obscure poor | spcabg1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu reasoning, and inhibit clarity." | "Cultivate philosophy and run like hell." -- "The purpose of writing is to | Andrew B. Gross inflate weak ideas, obscure poor | spcabg1@cicero.spc.uchicago.edu reasoning, and inhibit clarity." | "Cultivate philosophy and run like hell." ------------------------------ From: rv@cs.brown.edu (rodrigo vanegas) Subject: Re: Bashing Peter MacDonald Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 18:58:46 GMT In article <1993Aug30.173006.890@knobel.knirsch.de>, andreas@knobel.knirsch.de (Andreas Klemm) writes: >>SLS bashing happens not because we don't appreciate Peter's job but >>because we also appreciate the better job being done by the compilers >>of other distributions. Don't take it personally... > About what problems are you speaking here ? Would be interested, > what's really _wrong_ with SLS. Did I overlook something on my > (from SLS 1.01 to SLS 1.03) upgraded system ???? Here's an abridged list. (some only applies to SLS as it stood in mid-July) 1. emacs requires X shared libs 2. SLS.FAQ not updated since Mar12 3. kernel used is an alpha release 4. filesystem has gratuitous link in /dev 5. gzip on root disk was at one point older than that used to compress packages, which caused problems. (i'm not sure about this one.) 6. net-2 installation was a mess in 1.02 because the scripts that were supposedly going to make it easier were only half-baked and very cluttered with what appeared to be someone else's config. 7. scattered throughout the disks i have found packages that weren't even listed in the corresponding `disk??' file so they would never have been installed. On two occasions this problem caused disks to contain more than the 1.2M limit for 5.25" floppies. Considering the difficulty involved and the fact that this is completely volunteer, SLS isn't really that bad of a job. My only point is that MCC is better. That's all. > I have the same feeling like Peter Mc Donald. It's really simpler > to flame someone, than to cooperate. I cooperate with the linux community by suggesting MCC as an alternative distribution, and i have never flamed Peter personally. Calling attention to the deficiencies of SLS is not flaming. rodrigo vanegas rv@cs.brown.edu ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy From: pyeatt@CS.ColoState.EDU (Pyeatt) Subject: Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 18:01:29 GMT I can't speak for the majority, but I personally like Windows because the box, with documentation and all, is perfect for propping my office door open. I have worried that someone might steal it, but decided that in that case, it would be the theive's problem to find a new use for it. -- Larry D. Pyeatt All standard disclaimers apply. pyeatt@kottke.cs.colostate.edu Void where prohibited. -- Larry D. Pyeatt All standard disclaimers apply. pyeatt@kottke.cs.colostate.edu Void where prohibited. ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy From: mark@taylor.uucp (Mark A. Davis) Subject: Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 18:04:31 GMT eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes: >Okay, I'd like to know why Windows is currently the #1 most-used "OS" in the >world today. Irrational or illogical reasons are OK, be imaginitive. Extra >marks for the most amusing mis-spelling of Windows. 1) MS-Windows has a good base of easily accessed software 2) MS-Windows is bundled with most systems 3) MS-Windows is inexpensive 4) MS-Windows is rather easy to install and use in a single-user environment These are the reasons I come up with. Not that I like MS-"Windows", quite the contrary. It would be hard to knock MS-"Windows" off that pedestal, and I really don't care if it is. I prefer real operating systems but would like access to the MS-"Windows" applications through WABI or whatever. -- /--------------------------------------------------------------------------\ | Mark A. Davis | Lake Taylor Hospital | Norfolk, VA (804)-461-5001x431 | | Sys.Administrator| Computer Services | mark@taylor.wyvern.com .uucp | \--------------------------------------------------------------------------/ ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy From: jeg7e@livia.acs.Virginia.EDU (Jon Gefaell) Subject: Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 18:05:44 GMT In article <25tbo5INN2bn@flipper.pvv.unit.no>, Eyvind Bernhardsen wrote: >In article , tim@lorien.demon.co.uk (Tim Towers) writes: > >[...] > > > Nothing gets to be the number one application by accident - there has to be > > some reason. > >Okay, I'd like to know why Windows is currently the #1 most-used "OS" in the >world today. Irrational or illogical reasons are OK, be imaginitive. Extra >marks for the most amusing mis-spelling of Windows. Windles is bindled with most machines.... And it's a damned site prettier than Wordperfect. Kind of like a full screen pinball game... -- Any opinions expressed herein are not intended to be construed as those of UVA ______ \ \ / Jon Gefaell, Computer Systems Engineer | Amateur Radio - KD4CQY \/\/ Information Technology and Communications | -Will chmod for food- \/ The University of Virginia, Charlottesville | Hacker@Virginia.EDU ------------------------------ Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy From: dnewcomb@cybernet.cse.fau.edu (Dan Newcombe) Subject: Re: Windows Pop Quiz Re: NT versus Linux Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1993 18:16:52 GMT eyvind@Lise.Unit.NO (Eyvind Bernhardsen) writes: > In article , tim@lorien.demon.co.uk (Tim > > Nothing gets to be the number one application by accident - there has to b > > some reason. > Okay, I'd like to know why Windows is currently the #1 most-used "OS" in the > world today. Irrational or illogical reasons are OK, be imaginitive. Extra > marks for the most amusing mis-spelling of Windows. Give me the friggin soapbox, I wanna waste bandwidth :) Win-blows is number one because most computer companies ship it with their systems. So each time a computer is sold, Windows is sold. It doesn't matter if people use it. -Dan ------------------------------ ** FOR YOUR REFERENCE ** The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is: Internet: Linux-Misc-Request@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.misc) via: Internet: Linux-Misc@NEWS-DIGESTS.MIT.EDU Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites: nic.funet.fi pub/OS/Linux tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux End of Linux-Misc Digest ******************************